1 The cafeteria is out of my favorite coffee! It's a crime against humanity!

2 so who will be the first one to say that Franco wasn't that bad? I know there were a couple of people who went down that route when I brought him up in the ONT

3

Yeah, I know. Gabe is our go-to guy on International Law

You really didn't want people reading your whole post, did you?

4 In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

5 Arrest the Pope?
This as it turns out is more like chest beating than a real threat.
I'm sure Her Majesty likes owning Northern Ireland to the extent necessary not to claw open a barely closed still tacky wound between Protestants and Catholics.

6 People are aware that there is no such thing as "International Law", right?  Right?  You guys use this term merely as a jest, I assume ... I hope.

7 People are aware that there is no such thing as "International Law", right? Right? You guys use this term merely as a jest, I assume ... I hope. Well, there's "the stuff scholars came up with to bind the hands of Western powers and protect third world tyrants that actually isn't enforceable in any meaningful sense but we want to use it to embarrass the United States," if that's what you mean.

8 The world is falling apart due top the stupid PC crap from all the extreme left wing turds.

It will not stop until it goes up in flames and the real men surface to kill the SOBs.

9 I'd agree that this is pretty much an empty threat. That being said, there's some reasonably compelling evidence to suggest that the formal Cardinal Ratzinger was deeply involved in the pedophilia cover-up before he became pope.

I know I'm deeply in the minority here, but I don't think anyone should get a free pass on something like this.

10 Benedict is a head of state, it will go nowhere, and the whole thing is a publicity stunt.

11 how long does it take for you to turn into a Catholic after being bitten by the pope?

HAAAA!

Ok, carry on.

12 Additionally as the head of the Anglican Church, I doubt she wants her Sovereignty to be the one that perrosecutes the Pope.

13

so who will be the first one to say that Franco wasn't that bad? I know there were a couple of people who went down that route when I brought him up in the ONT

I actually don't know much about him other than he was a fascist dictator. But don't think for a second Spain would've done better had the other side won in the Spanish Civil War.

14 And exactly how long does it take for you to turn into a Catholic after being bitten by the pope?

We'll pursue that posthaste.

15 If the Pope is determined to be immune to International Law as a Head of State, how could he ever be stopped?

Pentagrams?

16 The POPE? Coming to ENGLAND?! I trust my countrymen shall rally and drive the Beast With Seven Crowns from our shores! For what did the Smithfield Martyrs burn, or brave men take up arms against King Charles, if we must tamely submit to having him profane our New Jerusalem?

17

So long as the left is rounding up religious leaders and charging them "crimes against humanity," when are they planning on locking up the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton?

If anything comes close to being criminal seems to me these two ponzi-scheme loving jackasses have committed more actual crimes than a hundred Popes.

18 Well, there's "the stuff scholars came up with to bind the hands of Western powers and protect third world tyrants that actually isn't enforceable in any meaningful sense but we want to use it to embarrass the United States," if that's what you mean.

Posted by: joncelli at April 13, 2010 02:36 PM (RD7QR)

Yeah, that would be it.  Not "law" in any sense of the word, but they love to call it law" to make it sound super-duper official.  Sadly, I think that Russ has been taken in by the wording, as his "If the Pope is determined to be immune to International Law as a Head of State, how could he ever be stopped?" is the scariest sort of question I can imagine.

The US has been brainwashed into taking these fantasy notions as legitimate - part and parcel of selling the idea of a UN as a legitimate entity, when anyone with even an ounce of sense understands that only the biggest idiot in the world would even think that the idea of an empowered, peerless, competitionless entity has any theoretical justification, let alone the absolute insanity of trying to implement such a Frankenstein monster.  The most cursory knowledge of evolutionary theory, or basic capitalist ideas, or just plain common sense, tells anyone that such an entity is guaranteed to grow in grotesque and dangerous ways - as we have seen.  But, so many still accept the idea of the empowered, peerless, competitionless entity as somehow being "natural", when it is the most unnatural sort of organization this world has ever seen.

When such insane ideas, such as the existence of "international law" or the (laughable) intelligence of having an empowered UN exist, gain currency among so much of our population ... it just makes me cry.

19 Gabe is our go-to gay on International Law

fixed

20 We'll sink him in the Channel!

21 Is garzon the clown who granted rights to monkeys?

22 I think it's perfectly okay.

23

According to Luther, the Pope is the Anti-Christ, so there's that.

Wasn't that his second book? After he wrote the book about the Jews being the spawn of Satan?

24 Posted by: joncelli at April 13, 2010 02:36 PM (RD7QR)

To sum my earlier response up, succinctly, it's all part and parcel of the ongoing effort to destroy the very concept of national sovereignty.  Our Founders are spinning in their graves.

25 I know I'm deeply in the minority here, but I don't think anyone should get a free pass on something like this.

He was a Bishop of the Church. What level of Criminal behavior do you want to assign? Under what pretext do you assign criminal culpability? Considering clergy esp. Catholics are generally immune to conspiracy, due to the sacrament of confession. Reckless endangerment is likely the only palpable charge that you could get to stick. I'm not willing to take down the head of the largest Christian church unless he explicitly told someone to commit an illegal act.

26 In truth, it would be pretty funny if some hard-core Protestant anti-Catholic group in the UK came out in favor of Dawkins & co. -- the Pope's remarks would be drowned out by the sound of British liberal skulls exploding.

27 God I wish they had an "Arrest the Pope" function in Medieval II: Total War because he actually causes me to telk to my monitor in that game.

28

I actually don't know much about him other than he was a fascist dictator. But don't think for a second Spain would've done better had the other side won in the Spanish Civil War.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at April 13, 2010 02:42 PM (P33XN)

they were more along the lines of Franco was misunderstood. Frankly, it came off along the lines of a libtard standing up for Che. But then again, why anyone would want to standup for a scumbag like Franco still makes me scratch my head

29 Christopher Hitchens, Arianna Huffington and Andrew Sullivan -  the Moe, Larry and Curly of political critiques.

30 I hereby indict Balthazar Garcon on five thousand counts of arrogant douchebaggery, ninety-two hundred of hubris in the first degree, and forty-four thousand of being smug Euro-trash in a public place -- all of which has about as much legal validity as his idiotic "universal jurisdiction" bullshit. Apparently, "International Law" is whatever the international leftardoisie decides it is.

And yeah, Franco was a bad, bad, man. And the commie scumbags that he whipped in the SCW -- people I'm sure Balthazar Garcon has on his hero list -- were just as bad, or worse.

31 33 Good theologian? Like coming up with some stuff so he could immediately marry his 15 year old housekeeper? Man can never be good and so covers himself in the mantle of christ to be justified? That mantle justifies him to God regardless of act, only faith matters? OK. The dude has some major issues. Too bad Christoph is gone, I'm sure he is dying to weigh in.

32

It's Interesting that the Spanish government was willing to sit idly by and let him indict Pinochet, investigate members of the Bush Administration for crimes against humanity, and even indict Osama bin Laden - BUT as soon as he started "goring their ox", he gets slapped with legal charges

Use this as a teachable moment, bitches.  Stop trying to gore my climate change ox or else!

33 The Pope should ex-communicate Hitchens, just to watch his greasy head explode.

34 Too bad Christoph is gone, I'm sure he is dying to weigh in.

Posted by: dagny at April 13, 2010 03:01 PM (k+Aa0)

Don't worry, I'm still around.

35 THEN MAY THE CHRISTIAN LORD GUIDE MY HAND AGAINST YOUR ROMAN POPERY!

36 I'd love to see Dawkins attempt to personally arrest the Pope...if only to (hopefully) watch him get tasered/slapped around by the Swiss Guard. What a dick.

37 I hear the English are going to have Ian Paisley greet the Pope at the airport.

38 Maybe someday when you get your head out of it. Don't make me bring out the lutefisk you heathen. Nice save. And let's try not to go all Northern Ireland, folks.

39

The Popemobile is impenetrable, so don't worry your silly little Papist heads.

Oh, and then there's the Templars Swiss Guard, and last but not least, Divine Intervention.

My money is on the Pope.

40

Interesting that Roman Catholicism is the ONLY religion in the world that has as its capitol a soverieign country and therefore diplomatic immunity. We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.

I don't have anything against the laity in the pews or local priests. My problem is with the leaders.

41 I say Dawkins and Hitchens should try and arrest the Pope in Belfast. Preferably in a Catholic neighborhood right after an Orange Order parade passed through.

42 If the Pope was the Anti-Christ, he would be much more popular with the NY Times and the rest of the leftist elite.

43

What Russian papers say: http://ow.ly/1y1r4

President Medvedev on the likelihood of nuclear war in Middle East

In an interview with ABC News television on Monday, President Dmitry Medvedev said that an Israeli strike at Iran could kick off a nuclear war in the Middle East, resulting in very sad effects. Some experts consider his remark another warning to Tehran, which is abusing the world community's patience, while others see in it a hint that the Islamic Republic already has its own nuclear weapons.

44 If the Pope was the Anti-Christ, he would be much more popular with the NY Times and the rest of the leftist elite.

Posted by: real joe at April 13, 2010 03:20 PM (IpIBJ)

Word.

45 Maybe someday when you get your head out of it.

Don't make me bring out the lutefisk you heathen.

Nice save. And let's try not to go all Northern Ireland, folks.

Lutefisk?  Sorry but there is absolutely Norway I'm going to let that slide.  /kidding

46

JEA @ #49

Yeah, but the Baptists, Hindus, Jews and the Dalai Lama don't own as much real estate as the Catholic Church does.  On a serious note, how about clarifying what you meant when you said, "I don't have anything against the laity in the pews or local priests. My problem is with the leaders."?

47 We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.

"WE" had nothing to do with it. Try reading ancient Roman History.  There is a reason it is called the 'Roman Catholic Church".

48 I remember watching Baltasar Garzon as a child.  I liked the revival series too, and thought that Edwin Jeeves Almost was a good choice to play Commander Adamant.

49 I'd agree that this is pretty much an empty threat. That being said, there's some reasonably compelling evidence to suggest that the formal Cardinal Ratzinger was deeply involved in the pedophilia cover-up before he became pope.

Ok, for the record I'm not catholic and I've never been bitten by a pope.  However the thing most people, and most specifically the lame stream media, keep failing to recognize is that most of these abuse cases that were "covered up" happened decades and decades ago.

Now, before anybody gets all bent out of shape, no, that doesn't mean the pedophiles in question shouldn't be castrated, tortured, and then executed.  But back in the day when these cases took place it was the opinion of the leading "experts" in the psychiatric field that this was a curable disorder.

The Church based it's decisions on how to deal with these problems on these "expert" opinions, believing that with the proper counseling that these individuals could be "reformed" and would no longer be a threat.  In essence they didn't have the first damn clue as to the evil this truly represented.

So, being those whacky, forgiving christian clerics that they are, the Church did what they were told was the best for all concerned, they removed the priest in question from his parish, gave him the recommended "counseling" for his "illness" and then when it seemed as if he was "reformed" returned him to duty because at the time all the experts said that would work.  It didn't.

Now of course we have a much better understanding of the fact that these vermin are never cured and that the only real "counseling" that works involves a water board, a large drill and a machete.

But back when these abuses were taking place the Church was just following the lead of society at large, all of whom were convinced that those guilty of these crimes could be forgiven and reformed.  Now of course we all know better - but since the Church still has "deep pockets" and is an organization that can be sued for such things, plus of course it gives the lame stream media plenty of ammo to use against those hated nutty Christians, well, I think we all know the score there and why these abuses are still being talked about 20-30 years later when other organizations with similar problems aren't still being haunted by this sort of thing.

50 "WE" had nothing to do with it. Try reading ancient Roman History.  There is a reason it is called the 'Roman Catholic Church".

Posted by: Vic at April 13, 2010 03:28 PM (QrA9E)

Bloody Romans

51 WE" had nothing to do with it. Try reading ancient Roman History.  There is a reason it is called the 'Roman Catholic Church".

Posted by: Vic at April 13, 2010 03:28 PM (QrA9E)

Bloody Romans

Posted by: People's Front of Judea at April 13, 2010 03:32 PM (erIg9)

I still haven't forgiven them for that whole Carthage thing.

52

Also, I guess that little Jewish State of Israel doesn't count in your book.

Posted by: polynikes at April 13, 2010 03:37 PM (m2CN7)

LOL.  No one respects Israel's sovereignty.  Israel exists by the might of its own defenses and nothing else.

53 Interesting that Roman Catholicism is the ONLY religion in the world that has as its capitol a soverieign country and therefore diplomatic immunity. We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.


I love Wikipedia. It answers so many stupid questions so well.

"With a history spanning almost two thousand years, the Church is the western world's oldest and largest institution, having played a prominent role in the politics and history of Western civilization  since the 4th century."

54 Also, I guess that little Jewish State of Israel Zionist Entity doesn't count in your book. FTFY. - Hamas Tech Support

55 You know how you would vote on the question of Mary Ann or Ginger, but how would you vote on the question of Rachel or Michelle? http://is.gd/brlE5

56 I know I'm deeply in the minority here, but I don't think anyone should get a free pass on something like this.

Pick your least favorite Supreme Court decision prior to 2009.  Now try blaming Sonia Sotomayor for it.  That's about like what's happening here. 

Interesting that Roman Catholicism is the ONLY religion in the world that has as its capitol a soverieign country and therefore diplomatic immunity. We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.

Okay, but prior to the Chinese invasion didn't the Dalai Lama have this as well?  And doesn't the Queen of England have it now?  How about Kim Jong-il and Juche?  Ayatollah Khameini and Shia Islam? 

57 Also, I guess that little Jewish State of Israel doesn't count in your book.

Seeing as how Israel doesn't have a state religion, it doesn't count in my book, either.

58 WE" had nothing to do with it. Try reading ancient Roman History.  There is a reason it is called the 'Roman Catholic Church".

Because the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Catholicism in 312 AD and shortly there after proclaimed it the official religion of Rome.  Up to that point if you got caught practicing Christianity really really bad things would happen to you.

So for about the next 700 years or so things went along pretty well, till roughly 1054 when there was a bit of a tiff between the Church of Rome and some of it's Eastern Bishops.  Kind of depends on who's version you take here as to which church was the "original church" before 1054, but in a nutshell their were a couple of interpretational issues that they couldn't resolve and the church more or less split into Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

After that it's a bit of a rollercoaster ride till the middle ages, when the reformations began and protestant offshoots began springing up for a variety of reasons and over a variety of doctrinal disputes.

But all Christian faiths can trace their origins back to the original church that Constantine made the official Church of Rome back in 312 AD. 

59 So the Pope is God's representative on earth and infallible in all religious matters.  He is also a head of state.  So, I'm wondering if they are pursuing the Pope so that they can set a precedent to go after another head of state or two or three or heck, go after them all.

60

We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama

Isn't the Dalai Lama actually considered the ruler of Tibet?  You know when its not in control of China?  And isn't there a government in exile run by him in India?

61

  So, I'm wondering if they are pursuing the Pope so that they can set a precedent to go after another head of state or two or three or heck, go after them all.

Nah.  Its definitely much more of an effort to go after organized religion.  Belief in something other than the State is much more of a threat to these people.  Its like the attempt at painting the priesthood as being just full of pedophiles when the rate is pretty much identical to the public at large.  The coverup was at a higher rate though of course.

62 We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.

Of course, only islam has actual theocracies in existence.  But, then, islam has very little outside of dictatorships and fully empowered royals, too.  But ... shhhhh.

63

In other news, victims of the KGB attempted a citizens' arrest on Russian President Vladimir Putin as he arrived at Kennedy International airport, alleging that he knew of and covered up human rights abuses before becoming President. A State Department official was quoted as saying, "hoo boy, this won't end well".

64

The EU can't very well have a religious entity of the size and power of the RC Church sitting in its very midst...the serfs are to worship the state, don't you know?

And what SoS said about these pedophilia cases -- we have greater issues of rampant pedophilia within our public schools, but we can't have that holiest of holies state take any heat; better to go after the Church.

LOL, that's funny Dagny et al....when my husband and I deign to discuss argue about religion; this is the usual route we end up on (he's Lutheran and I'm well, relapsed, but once bitten by a pope...).  We usually stay away from religious topics now.

65 If the Pope is determined to be immune to International Law as a Head of State, how could he ever be stopped?

Following my first instinct and reaching for a crucifix probably wouldn't end well. I think I'm going to have to settle for knowing where my Augsburg Confession is at all times.

66 #60 - But back when these abuses were taking place the Church was just following the lead of society at large, all of whom were convinced that those guilty of these crimes could be forgiven and reformed. The Church was also "following the lead of society at large" when they relaxed the seminary rules to allow homosexuals to gain entry to the priesthood. Before the second half of the 20th century, sexual deviancy and effeminacy were disqualifiers for the priesthood. But once the "experts" got to work, they sold the Church the same bill of goods everyone else in society got, that these types were just the same as everyone else, no mental or emotional problems at all, and excluding them was just old-fashioned ignorant prejudice. Now when I read about a homosexual pervert priest, the first thing I do is check the story for the date of his ordination; 90% of the time, it's between 1972 and 1988 or so. There were a few before that, but it was rare - much more rare than the natural occurrence of homosexuality in the population at large, because they were deliberately weeded out and excluded from the priesthood, just as they were from the military. Now we have to wait until this entire diseased generation dies out before we can hope for a respectable priesthood again.

67 @Curious The Pope is not considered to be infallible in all religious matters. He can only (possibly) be considered to have made an infallible statement on moral or doctrinarial matters. Also, the Magisterium has to vote to consider papal statements infallible. This has only happened twice in the history of the Church, and the last time was in the 1500s, I believe. The pope is elected, not selected (see what I did there) by the College of Cardinals. Whether God has any say so in the matter - He's not shared with me.

68 @Curious

The Pope is not considered to be infallible in all religious matters. He can only (possibly) be considered to have made an infallible statement on moral or doctrinarial matters. Also, the Magisterium has to vote to consider papal statements infallible. This has only happened twice in the history of the Church, and the last time was in the 1500s, I believe.


The pope is elected, not selected (see what I did there) by the College of Cardinals. Whether God has any say so in the matter - He's not shared with me.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff

 

And a bazillion people pack St. Peter's square watching for pufs of smoke. That beats watching Dan Rather or any of those goons on election night by a mile

69 I think the new pope should be revealed by having him run through a paper banner held by nuns, but that's just me.

70 I think the new pope should be revealed by having him run through a paper banner held by nuns, but that's just me.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff

Someof the nuns who taught me had a great sense of humor; they might have actually chuckled at that. One of them used to flip baseball cards with us during recess ( she had her own stash, consisting of the ones she confiscated from the geniuses messing with them in class). She did not play for keeps, but she was good.

71

The pope is elected, not selected (see what I did there) by the College of Cardinals. Whether God has any say so in the matter - He's not shared with me.

Well they do believe their votes to be divinely inspired.  Probably one of the few elections in the world that can avoid fraud though.  You lock the cardinals in and they can't leave til they pick the pope.  And there are so few of them you're not going to have ballots suddenly appearing in the trunk of the Ugandan priests' car trunks.

72 Interesting that Roman Catholicism is the ONLY religion in the world that has as its capitol a soverieign country and therefore diplomatic immunity. We dont give that honor to Jews, Baptists, Hindus, not even the Dalai Lama.


Can you name the leader of Judaism?  Who's the head of Hinduism or Islam?  As far as I know only the RCs and the CofE have an executive leader.  Oh and Scientology too.

73 Ok a Catholic, an a grasshopper walk into a bar,, the bartender says hey I have a drink named after you, and the grasshopper says "really you have a drink named Fred?"  I am not feeling the love for the Pope on this thread!!!!!

74 This is the only really dumb post I've ever seen on AoS.
Hitchens and Dawkins are putzes motivated by vanity--"we the atheistic heroes, so brave we tilt even at Popes!". Anti-Catholicism has long since become the antisemitism of the middle classes. Such an easy target, the Church. If you attack it you are totally absolved of the need to investigate your facts, understand background etc.
In this case, you are also absolved from having to consider how many public officials presided or still preside over institutions where abuses took place ... and who are never held remotely responsible. Possibly because they don't wear white frocks and inhabit cathedrals.
This whole arrest the Pope thing is a stunt. Shame on those who collude in it.

75 In that spirit I say we arrest HRH Elizabeth II next time she visits the US.  She's the head of the C of E and there have been a number of cases of predatory pedophiliac priests of that faith.

Naturally this is nonsense.  As with the Catholic church, the incidences of pedophilia in that body are within the norm of society (to use a horribly out of place phrase) at large. 

76

86 yes, yes -- and I'd like to see them try to arrest the pope.

Also, I'm sure the muslim contingent of Britain is more than cheerful with this little stunt, almost as much as the commies.  Nothing like seeing the leading figure of the Christian infidels being hounded by other infidels.

77 King Billy was a gentleman He wore a watch and chain The Pope he was a beggarman He came from Castlemaigne King Billy had an Orange Cat That sat upon the fender And every time it caught a mouse He shouted, "No Surrender!"

78 Zirconia blank can worldwild ship and supply dental zirconia in the china.