1 Mitt, Mitt, try to think of the Olympics as your finest moment. And don't go beyond thinking.

2 You know who this helps?

3

Amen

4 >>2 You know who this helps?

Huckabee?

5 Bring me your tired, your hungry, your poor, that I may bribe them with money taken from other citizens by force in exchange for their votes!

6 Vote for us in 2012, because the government needs more power and you need less responsibility!!1

7 Cheney - Cantor LANDSLIDE.

8 Sorry Mitt, for all your other strengths, on this issue you simply aren't the clear cut anti-Obama we need.

What strengths??? He's a damn RINO squish gun-grabber.

9

This is why Romney can not and must not be the Republican nominee in 2012.

Bingo! 

10 "Mitt Romney Said He Wouldn't Repeal ObamaCare Personal Mandate"Of course he wouldn't.

Romney created the entire idea of the "individual forced mandate" when he forced residents of Massachusetts to buy insurance from his campaign donors. He created the idea of using the IRS as enforcers.

Mitt Romney created ObamaCare. He gave Barack the idea. He's for it.

Mitt Romney is the white Barack Obama.

11 Well I saw this coming.  Romney knows better than anyone that if you take away the mandate, there is no way the insurers can stay even halfway solvent and cover all the pre-existing conditions and other high risks.  Even if the mandate is found unconstitutional,  there are still a thousand tax-sucking bureaus and bureaucrats to feed in this bill that will be left standing. 

Just a couple of the reasons the bill sucks so bad.  Ugh. 

12 To make the most of the situation, the Republicans need a candidate the is directly, unashamedly and passionately opposed to Obamacare.

That's why we can't support Romney. Ever.

Case closed.

13 Romney supports burning of witches.
Being a Masshole and all

14 On a side note I guess we are in the "feast" realm today.

15

Mitt, Mitt, try to think of the Olympics as your finest moment. And don't go beyond thinking.

Hearing Romney lately, I am reminded of another Massachussetts politician, Michael Dukakis, who tried to tout managerial competence over principle.

But, as it was pointed out in response, a technocrat who makes the trains go quickly and on time, but doesn't ask what they are carrying, and where, can be a ery bad thing.

Mitt Romney would make a great GOP chairman (Get rid of Steele please), but not an elected leader. He is a brilliant organizer and manager, but not a statesman.

Those of us who did support him in 2008 did so because of what was happening to the rest of the GOP candidates, and obviously because McCain sucked and still sucks hard.

16

WHAT THE HELL!??!?!

Close to 60% of american want this DeathCare $hit repealed, and the number is only growing!

I never liked Romney never trusted the man, and if this is true, if he is the nominee, hell even as a recovering democrat turned Independent, I will not vote for this man!

what would be the point?  He's just Obama-lite!

I really had no opinion of Sarah one way or another, but she is the anti-Obama. The most concise and is unafraid to go after the marxist! I will not only vote for her, but fundraise from my fellow disgusted dems and independents for her.

Put up a real conservative, or there is no point in voting for a Obama-lite like Romeny.

17

Yeah, that's just unacceptable to me.  The mandate is the one thing that is most repugnant to individual liberty.  The fact that Romney likes it speaks volumes on his position on individual liberty issues.

Sorry dude.  You've got great hair and you're richer than God.  But not in '12.

18

I'm not a big Romney fan but the link provided to this blogger is pretty shaky at best. He is obviously not a Romney fan and you have to take this guy at his word that Romney said he wouldn't repeal it. I'll wait until I hear him say it myself.

19 Scratch one Mitt. History, Kaput. That would officially make him a RINO.

20 Who would vote for a guy named fucking Willard anyway?

He's a rat, man.

21

I can now confidently predict that Romney will be the GOP presidential candidate in 2012.

22

Who would vote for a guy named fucking Willard anyway?

He's a rat, man.

And any movie with Ernest Borgnine in it can/t be bad.

23 If the Mitt don't fit, you must boot it!

24 He'll never be able to shed Romneycare and because of that he will not be president, imo.  He really ought to save his money, unless he wants to be VP which he might be able to pull off.

25 Never liked him. Never will.

26

Breaking News...Romney endorses the individual mandate! And death panels.

 

27 Posted by: robtr at April 19, 2010 12:53 PM (fwSHf)

Yeah, I'm worried about to as you can see. That's why I provided the context of his debate quote. It's not that crazy.

I mean if this post were about say, Mike Pence, it would be so out of character and at odds with his other statements it would have no credibility.

But Mitt? It fits with what he's said and supported in the past.

I could have written this post the day ObamaCare passed. This is just the icing on the cake and news hook but Mitt was doomed once it was clear ObamaCare was going to be a big issue going forward. Romney needed health care off the table to be viable. It's not, he's not.

28 sorry, but arguably a mandate makes sense. everyone has to contribute because everyone -- literally, EVERYONE -- profits from the health care establishment. Does your ultra-pure notion of liberty include giving ambulances the option of leaving injured people at the scene of a car accident?! I don't see how you can dismiss the mandate out of hand. and to cut Romney off at the knees at this point is fucking foolhardy.

29 You sure you don't have info from your cousins hairdresser that heard it from a friend that Romney is going to support cap and trade. Don't worry I won't let the door hit me in the ass on my way out of this place.

30 "I'll wait until I hear him say it myself."

Well then here. Willard Romney in his own words from the ABCNews Presidential Debate in 2008:

CHARLIE GIBSON: But Government RomneyÂ’s system has mandates in Massachusetts, although you backed away from mandates on a national basis.

ROMNEY: No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work.

FRED THOMPSON: I beg your pardon? I didnÂ’t know you were going to admit that. You like mandates.

ROMNEY: Let me — let me — oh, absolutely. Let me tell you what kind of mandates I like, Fred, which is this. If it weren’t…

THOMPSON: The ones you come up with. Bingo.

(LAUGHTER)

ROMNEY: HereÂ’s my view: If somebody — if somebody can afford insurance and decides not to buy it, and then they get sick, they ought to pay their own way, as opposed to expect the government to pay their way. And thatÂ’s an American principle. ThatÂ’s a principle of personal responsibility. So, I said this: If you can afford to buy insurance, then buy it. You donÂ’t have to, if you donÂ’t want to buy it, but then you got to put enough money aside that you can pay your own way 

31 Does your ultra-pure notion of liberty include giving ambulances the option of leaving injured people at the scene of a car accident?!

Pretty sure EMTs don't check for insurance cards.  They just scoop you up and send you a bill.

32 Romney = same old, SAME OLD, with a new book and a new coat of paint.
He should join McLame on a slow boat to China cruise.

33

This just verifies my personal choice - never ever vote for anyone from East of the Mississippi. Stick with people more likely to be normal and less likely to be caught up in the whole uppity Boston Brahmin bullshit (i.e., people who seem to be sickeningly fascinated with Europe instead of being just normal Americans).

I've rarely encountered any politician from back East who actually would understand what the hell normal Western Americans would regard as foreign and unsuitable.

 

34

What strengths??? He's a damn RINO squish gun-grabber.

Now now, everyone knows he is a proven manager and organizer. And if this were an election for Treasurer, or even Governor of Mass (get rid of that asshole Patrick) he'd be great. But it isn't.

A national leader he is not. No squishies anymore.

35

I'm not a big Romney fan but the link provided to this blogger is pretty shaky at best. He is obviously not a Romney fan and you have to take this guy at his word that Romney said he wouldn't repeal it. I'll wait until I hear him say it myself.

 

I didn't like Mitt in '08, and I don't like him now.  He's a gooshy Mass. RINO.

36 and yeah, McLame was from the West, but we really never trusted the sneaky bastard.

37

I'm confused, he says he is for mandates... yet he says this:

" If somebody — if somebody can afford insurance and decides not to buy it, and then they get sick, they ought to pay their own way, as opposed to expect the government to pay their way. And thatÂ’s an American principle. ThatÂ’s a principle of personal responsibility. So, I said this: If you can afford to buy insurance, then buy it. You donÂ’t have to, if you donÂ’t want to buy it, but then you got to put enough money aside that you can pay your own way  "

 

I agree with this paragraph, I read nothing in it that says Mandate to me. so why would Romney say he is for mandates, and yet when explaining what he means, and in that explaination what he says is actually not defined as a mandate.

Does Romney understand what a mandate is?

38 Thank God Drew's in off the bench for a big assist!  Gabe can't do it all!

39 Bawney Fwank likes man-dates too.

40

As others have stated: olympics was Milt's zenith. However, he is "dead man walking" on mandates as it destroys the liberty foundations of this Nation.

41
yeah, Gabe can't ruin this blog all by himself

42

You know who this helps?

Nurses who will soon be doctors.

http://tinyurl.com/y79tupa

 

 

43 Sorry, but arguably a mandate makes sense. everyone has to contribute because everyone -- literally, EVERYONE -- profits from the health care establishment.

And?  You're position does not follow.  Everyone* should have to pay for their own healthcare.  Be that through insurance, cash, gold, barter, chickens, whatever, each person is responsible for paying for his/her own healthcare.  You are conflating insurance with healthcare and they are NOT the same thing.

*To bring up the sedition thread stuff, part of the ragey rage is that I now have to pay for my insurance as well as numerous Undocumented Americans' healthcare as well.  That tends to make Alex a wee bit smashy. 

44 "He'll never be able to shed Romneycare."

He's not trying to. He's for it. He loves it. Just ask him.

Mitt Romney believes mandates enforced by the IRS are a great idea. He came up with it in Massachusetts as Governor. He believes you should be forced to buy insurance from his campaign donors.

And if elected, he'll pass even more insurance mandates:

* Burial Insurance
* Life Insurance
* Flood Insurance

If people should be forced to "pay their own way" in the health arena, why not in these other arenas? If we can force people to buy car insurance and health insurance, and homeowners insurance ... why not all kinds of insurance?

As a private individual, Mitt Romney has invested heavily in insurance companies ... so of course he is for mandates.

He's making a fucking fortune on this policy.

45

I don't see how you can dismiss the mandate out of hand. and to cut Romney off at the knees at this point is fucking foolhardy.

This is how I dismiss the mandate out of hand:  It gives vast amounts of governmental power in an arena where it doesn't belong and will inevitably result in a cascade of unforeseen negative consequences.  Expensive consequences.

I've also yet to see anything meaningful from this guy.  He was squishy about the surge (give Maverick credit there--he was firmly behind Bush) and waited until it became punchline material around here to endorse Rubio in Florida.

Drew has it right--we need a steely-eyed anti-Obama and Romney is not.

46 Paul Ryan looks good, and Obama seems to really dislike him.  That's a plus. 

47 never ever vote for anyone from East of the Mississippi.

Plenty of shit-heads west of the Mi'sippi. Mike Huckabee & Blanche Lincoln, Ben Nelson, Tom Harkin, Al Franken, Harry Reid, Max Baucus, Mary Landrieu, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Boxer & Feinstein & Pelosi.

Huckabee vs. Chris Christie--no way you make that call on geography.

48 This is a center-left nation now the Republicans need more moderates like Romney who believe in helping people with healthcare and climate control and abortions.

49

There are extremely reasonable car insurance programs in most states which cost some tiny percentage of the cost of health insurance.

There arn't any "public option" stalking horses in states with mandatory car insurance either, and the car insurance market is competitive and easily crosses state lines. Not so with respect to health insurance.

50 You're/your I need more caffeine.

51 Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back. 

52 Mitt.. what a piece of.. ok, no too obvious.  I did see an interview where he was defending Romneycare and thought, ok, he's got no chance of my support in the next election.

I think we need to make sure the word gets out and the tea party organizers in particular are well aware of Romney's stand.  I do not want another presidential election where I'm making a choice between getting shot and getting hung.

On the upside watching McCain struggling like hell in the primary gives me great hope.  I truly hope he loses the primary, and I hope that sends a clear message to the republican party.  This RINO shit has got to end.  Seriously.  Give us candidates we can trust and believe in for a change.

53 and the car insurance market is competitive and easily crosses state lines.

Car insurance doesn't cover oil changes, tire rotation, windshield washer fluid, detailing, after-market sound system upgrades...

54
Mitt Romney is the white Barack Obama

More like a botoxed Kerry.

55 Just another Crist example. One more mongrel 2 party dog. Is there any purebreds left? Yea one, but I am prevented from speaking his name here.

56

I'm liking Christie more and more.  I don't know if he would be interested, though.

 

57 I was not enthusiastic previously about Mitt. Not that he cares, but with this position, particularly when the health care bill is so in your face and antithetical to every possible conservative view, he's dug himself a huge hole to climb out of. 

58

Mitt is done.  Good.

59 I will not support Romney in a primary and will actively work against him.

Pence is still my top choice as of now.

60

32 Does your ultra-pure notion of liberty include giving ambulances the option of leaving injured people at the scene of a car accident?!

Really? Really?? No thats some weak sauce!

And its Amber-Lamps!! dummy.

61
Over at LGF - Charles says that the entire GOP is over,  because one man (Tom Tancredo) said something stupid and everyone on the right is therefore tainted and dirty because of it.

Nice broad brush. 

62

Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back.

Pictures or it...you know the rest.

63 53 Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back.    All I remember is waking up with a hangover, and wondering why there was a crater on my keyboard where F5 (shortcut: save) was supposed to be.

64

Over at LGF - Charles says that the entire GOP is over,  because one man (Tom Tancredo) said something stupid and everyone on the right is therefore tainted and dirty because of it.

Two words:  Maxine.  Waters.

65 You're all anti-Mormon bigots!

66 Here in TN, TennCare is broke.  So broke that it no longer offers "CoverTN", which was the original Medicaid aim - offer coverage for poor people regardless of age.  Now, TennCare only covers children, pregnant women and women who have breast or cervical cancer.

Poor working men and women no longer have access to Medicaid in TN, and the whole system is at risk.  We don't have an individual mandate, but even without it, government run health insurance just does not work.

67 Posted by: polynikes at April 19, 2010 12:59 PM (WYUPU)

You're leaving because I linked to something other major conservative blogs are posting about? Really?

So long then.

68 I got my ass whacked in Southern France. TG, they had socialized medicine in France while I was spreading the word of Joseph Smith.

69 Hell, I don't even want Mitt in Michael Steele's job.  I don't give a darn that he's a good manager and blah, blah, blah.  He's a squish and relates to other squishes.  He wouldn't field conservatives; he'd be happy with RINOs -- or worse, like hisownself.  Steele's supposed to be recruiting conservatives and he can't seem to get the hang of it.

70 Over at LGF - Charles says that the entire GOP is over,  because one man (Tom Tancredo) said something stupid and everyone on the right is therefore tainted and dirty because of it.

I won't go over there but I do miss the pictures of litter on the beach.

71 53 Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back. 

Posted by: runningrn at April 19, 2010 01:08 PM (CfmlF)

Is there any way I can get an email alert when that happens again?

72 There arn't any "public option" stalking horses in states with mandatory car insurance either, and the car insurance market is competitive and easily crosses state lines. Not so with respect to health insurance. Romney isn't on record supporting a national public option, just a mandate. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. he also supports buying insurance across state lines and having competitive markets. so tell me your problem with Romney again? or maybe you're just making my point for me.

73

Car insurance doesn't cover oil changes, tire rotation, windshield washer fluid, detailing, after-market sound system upgrades...

 

Hmmmm.  Really?  This gives me an idea.

74 REPOST WITH QUOTE MARKS: "There arn't any "public option" stalking horses in states with mandatory car insurance either, and the car insurance market is competitive and easily crosses state lines. Not so with respect to health insurance." Romney isn't on record supporting a national public option, just a mandate. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. he also supports buying insurance across state lines and having competitive markets. so tell me your problem with Romney again? or maybe you're just making my point for me.

75

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 19, 2010 01:12 PM (B+qrE)

Three words:  Barbara Boxer

76

So tell me if I'm crazy here:

Jon Huntsman.  Former Governor.  Ambassador to China, so the lefties can't attack him on foreign policy grounds since he is Obama's guy there (for the moment).

Possible?

77

Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back.

Jeeze!! I always miss the good shit, I show up ont the ONT and you morons a linking to bathtub girl and 2 girls one cup. Now thats some loose shit! WTF.

 

78 I hate mandates. The mandates suck.

79

Never liked Romney. MassCare is a disaster, and it's always been so easy to spot this from so far off, that duty of leadership mandated he honored to be governor of his people should oppose vigorously with every fibre of his being. Instead he championed it. He is muddled in his thinking on this and grounded on secure principles that one can trust. That disqualifies him from the demands of the Oval Office. He does seem to be a nice enough guy, and I'd like to think he'd be a good boss to have -- in a business career. His leadership ability does not translate sufficiently to the political realm.

80

I won't go over there but I do miss the pictures of litter on the beach.

Did you see the photo on the Green Jobs thread? At LGF the picture would be the thread, and the thread would be the picture.

81 Repeal ObamaCare

It's conservative
It's popular
It enjoys overwhelming independent support

Would you think we can get leading Republican candidates to commit to it?
Heh!

82 I do miss the pictures of litter on the beach.

You're welcome.

83

Romney isn't on record supporting a national public option, just a mandate. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

And they are both bad.

Next.

84 Car insurance doesn't cover oil changes, tire rotation, windshield washer fluid, detailing, after-market sound system upgrades... --------- Yet.

85 "I will not support Romney in a primary and will actively work against him."

If he's the Republican nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama.

I'd rather have an enemy in Barack than an alleged "friend" in Mitt Romney.

Hussein is unable to reach across the aisle and get his legislation passed. It is thus, easily deemed illegitimate and can be repealed.

Romney would reach across the aisle and work with Democrats to "get things done." His legislation would be permanent - as it is in Massachusetts.

86 "and they are both bad" I guess you can't explain why, Circa. do some homework.

87 If it true -- also ran, maybe he can be treasury sec.

88 Ed Morrissey and Allahpundit hardest hit!

89 If he's the Republican nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama.

See now that right there is just plain stupid.

90
Posted by: kathleen

What's your purpose here, to support ObamaCare or to defend Mitt Romney?

91 Romney isn't on record supporting a national public option, just a mandate.

This is correct, but that's primarily because he owns stock in a lot of insurance companies and doesn't want Obama nationalizing the insurance business he's making a fucking fortune on now that customers are forced to buy his product.

Take a look at who donates to Willard Romney.

It is mostly the insurance lobby that he has worked so hard to enrich.

92 I'm going to have to work overtime promoting anti-Palin nuggets to spin this one away.

93 Is Lurch finished with his flip-flops? Sounds like they are Mitt's size The nominee will be someone not currently on the radar, count on it.

94 Yeah, Romney is gonna have trouble in 2012.  Too bad cause he is a bright guy but just too wishy washy on things.

Any republican coming out of MA will always struggle nationally.

95 Mitt is on the wrong side of this right now, give him a week, and he will change his mind.

96 Romney's position on this has been clear for a long, long time. He's as RINO as they come on this issue which, because of its linchpin nature in terms of pushing us toward socialism, leaves all his other stated policy positions in question, IMHO.

97 67 You're all anti-Mormon bigots! ---------- Right. Wouldn't be the first time I've been called anti-Mormon. Only reason I voted for Mitt in the primary was that he and McCain were the only ones left.

98 Yea, what someguy says.

99 Mitt would have lost by a wider margin that McCain in 2008.

100 it's obvious to me that none of you know much about Romney's insurance program in Massachusetts, so you sound like idiots. You need to get a clue -- taxpayers are already on the hook for deadbeats who don't buy health insurance. the notion of transferring those costs to the deadbeats who need healthcare but don't want to pay for it is hardly proto-marxism. It's the implementation of a mandate that can screw everything up , but a public option does NOT necessarily follow from a mandate. but yeah, go ahead and fucking vote for obama over romney. then you can spend the rest of your sorry lives bitching in a comment box about how stupid everyone else is.

101 I think we are going to have to throw the long one in 2012, and pick a newbie... Christie, Rubio, Ryan, Brown.

102 "See now that right there is just plain stupid."

No it's not. You're just not intelligent enough to understand this unorthodox strategy.

I'd rather know who my enemy is than have Mitt Romney stabbing me in the back. And Mitt Romney has - at every turn as an elected official - stabbed Republicans and especially conservatives in the back.

You might feel differently, and you get a vote.

So I'll see you on Election Day.

If Mitt Romney (or John McCain) is the nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama and all Republican Congressional candidates to ensure that Democrats and their friends the Republicrats can't enact their agenda.

103

When was the last time that something good came out of Massachusetts?

What have they given us? Ted Kennedy, Obama, Romney, assorted crazed academics. And of course, the whole fucking Ivy League wrecking crew in charge of our fate - Fanne Mae, Freddie Mac, Congress, the federal bureaucracy...

And that shriveled little race hustler 'Professor' Henry Gates.

Fuck you, Romney. Go away.

104 So can this please be the end of the notion that Romney's the guy for '12?

Please?

105

Wow, I haven't seen this much activity on AoS since the moronettes were flashing boobs on teh ONT several months back. 

 

Holy shit, what did I miss?

106 Mitt - for Americas sake - Get Lost......

107 kathleen....are we coming off our morning coffee high? Oh, another log on the fire would be Patreaus...

108 You need to get a clue -- taxpayers are already on the hook for deadbeats who don't buy health insurance.

You're still conflating "health insurance" with "medical care."  People pay for care with cash and installment payments every day.  Go get some clues instead of spending your sorry life bitching in a comment box about how stupid everyone else is.

109 Thanks for your service, Mitt. I'm pretty sure Rio needs some help with their 2016 Olympics. And I'm pretty sure you won't be doing anything between now and then.

110
It doesn't matter. You, we, are going to end up with Pawlenty, anyway.

111 Paul Ryan 2012.

112 When was the last time that something good came out of Massachusetts?

Battles of Lexington and Concord?

113 105"See now that right there is just plain stupid."

No it's not. You're just not intelligent enough to understand this unorthodox strategy.

I'd rather know who my enemy is than have Mitt Romney stabbing me in the back. And Mitt Romney has - at every turn as an elected official - stabbed Republicans and especially conservatives in the back.

You might feel differently, and you get a vote.

So I'll see you on Election Day.

If Mitt Romney (or John McCain) is the nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama and all Republican Congressional candidates to ensure that Democrats and their friends the Republicrats can't enact their agenda.

Posted by: someguy at April 19, 2010 01:25 PM (VRJIW)

Wile E. Someguy. Super-genius.

A useful tip - quit buying products from Acme.  You condescending a-hole.

114 Does your ultra-pure notion of liberty include giving ambulances the option of leaving injured people at the scene of a car accident?! I don't see how you can dismiss the mandate out of hand. and to cut Romney off at the knees at this point is fucking foolhardy.

Posted by: kathleen at April 19, 2010 12:59 PM (2TeHO)

That is the most idiotic example of a strawman that I have ever seen.  I worked aboard ambulances and fire trucks for over 20 years and we NEVER refused to aid ANYBODY.

Oh, and to "cut Romney off at the knees at this point" isn't "fucking foolhardy" it's simply removing one avenue of attack from the Democrat's toolbox.  Apparently it is the tool you were hoping to use

Get over it.

115 If he's the Republican nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama.

Laddie, that's crazy drug talk... are you all hopped-up on goofballs?

116 I liked Mitt in '08 and was looking in his direction for '12.  If this was actually stated, ducks need to be lined up.  The Tea Party's will make toast of the man and deservedly so.

117 Posted by: kathleen

Could you do an idiot a favor and find where it is called out in the federal govt's original mission statement to make this kind of mandate on an individual.

118 Hugh Hewitt@67:
"You're all anti-Mormon bigots!"

Shouldn't you be preparing for another stellar E.J. Dionne interview or something?  Make sure you give him the whole hour and treat him like he's some kind of profound thinker worthy of respect.  You know, like you usually do.

119 Kathleen, having yet again flunked out of Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" seminar, proves why she hasn't made it through the seminar's first day coffee and cookie break.

120

I think we are going to have to throw the long one in 2012, and pick a newbie...


Christie, Rubio, Ryan, Brown.

 

 

The first three I could go with.  I'm watching Brown closely.  He may turn out to be just another Mass. RINO.

121 Geezus, Kathleen, quit calling people names. Romney himself did not know healthcare costs in Mass. went up 17%. Three times the nat avg. Not lost on the need for healthcare or the fact we all pay anyway... either. The devil is in the details, not the philosophy.

He is a squish. Not exactly the bulletproof candidate. We saw how well that worked.

122 "You need to get a clue -- taxpayers are already on the hook for deadbeats who don't buy health insurance."

You're advocating an "individual mandate."

The solution to this problem is removing illegal aliens from our medical system. It is enacting laws requiring people to pay for their own health care.

Not institutionalizing this injustice. Not forcing Christians to buy insurance ... but not Muslims. RomneyCare forces Jews to buy insurance ... but not Muslims.

Where does it stop?

We're burying everyone who dies too ... shouldn't everyone be forced to buy burial insurance?

What about flood insurance? Should we force all Americans to buy flood insurance? It's bound to rain, isn't it?

Every time a President declares a disaster area, we all pay to provide low-cost loans to the victims of that disaster.

Shouldn't we require all Americans to buy Hurricane Insurance?

Where does it stop?

123 Obama beat us because he was an unknown, and he had very little to direct people where his loyalty lay,. we are going to be ahead of the game if we pick someone that has a record that has a "narrative" (ie can be spun).... the newbie's will give us that, plus the D's can't say our person has less than BHO did when he started running. If there is a head start on old stuff the MSM will eat our candidate for lunch... I will vote for anyone but BHO , for the record. Including Mitt.

124

I will vote for anyone but BHO , for the record. Including Mitt.

Well, of course. But we're talking about the GOP primary here. And for that, no more Mitt, we can do better.

125 Repeal the individual mandate? Sedition!

126 Agree...Brown is a RINO. I will still vote for him, and he is a very appealing candidate, an American story ...WITH MILITARY SERVICE....(30 Yrs )

127

There are no choices in this election upcoming.  Just put the Republican in to punish the Democrat.  Get ready to put the Democrat back in shortly.

 

Meet the new boss-- same as the old boss!

128

I guess you can't explain why, Circa. do some homework.

Want to bet?  And for purposes of this discussion, I'll leave aside the entire question of constitituionality.

1.  Mandates force the healthy to subsidize the sick.  We already have programs that do that...Medicare and Medicaid.  And they are breaking. 

2.  Mandates, whether individual or employer-based, are taxes that undermine economic growth.  Just as in point 1--if you obligate a healthy person to pay more than they should for their health care, then voila--less money for spending on other things in the economy.  This doesn't control costs in any way, but encourages even more spending because of a still extant free rider problem.

3.  To be effective, the mandates must cost less than the penalties for non-compliance to avoid the free-rider problem.  If you can find the proper point on the Laffer curve for that cost in a dynamic system with 300 million individuals, wide geographical differences and an almost chaotic (Hi, Kratos!) environment of demand inputs, then you have my admiration.

129 Gee all I know is that Mitt Romney isn't the answer. And if he is the answer, I don't want to know what the question is?

130 Good to see someguy back to punching up.

131 Problem:

Illegal aliens are getting free care because we can't not treat them.

Romney Solution:

Make law-abiding Americans pay for the care of the illegal aliens.

That's fucking retarded.

Conservative Solution:

Secure our borders so the illegal aliens can't get here in the first place. Jail criminal employers hiring them so there is no jobs magnet attracting illegal aliens here in the first place.

132 You could really get your game on with some of these newer faces.. Barbour ...YUK Paul, never happen. He will be railed against like he is Tim McVeigh. Mitt..dead wood.

133 "The devil is in the details, not the philosophy.' exactly my point, so stop slamming the philosophy behind a mandate. Or did Romney say that implementation of his MAprogram was exactly what he hoped it would be? yeah, didn't think so. and someguy, guess what? if someone loses everything in a flood, and he has no flood insurance, you pay for a lot of what he recoups. it's called federal disaster aid. it's great that you want to pay for them, it really is. you're a mensch.

134 Truman, does this mean that you are not a Baker boy?

135 Where does it stop?

Posted by: someguy at April 19, 2010 01:30 PM (VRJIW)

The ants are all over me! get them off me!

136 Romney believes his health plan in MA is a resounding success. I was floored when I saw it on O'Reilly. So, I do think he could have said it.

137 circa, you are confusing mandates with a public option. fail.

138

telling you right now that Romney is a mistake because of this issue.   He cannot stand properly against Obamacare because of his MassCare fiasco.

GOP, get over Mitt. 

139 Oy, Kathleen knows some Hebrew/Yiddish!

140 "See now that right there is just plain stupid."

No it's not. You're just not intelligent enough to understand this unorthodox strategy.
Yes, it is.  Your unorthodox strategy ensures an America hating marxist 4 more years.  I'll let others judge your intellect.

I'd rather know who my enemy is than have Mitt Romney stabbing me in the back. And Mitt Romney has - at every turn as an elected official - stabbed Republicans and especially conservatives in the back.
What? you don't know who Barak Obama is?  Its one thing to have someone who is otherwise conservative refusing to recognize his greatest acheivement as pure folly, its another to actively support a marxist.

You might feel differently, and you get a vote.
Damn right.
So I'll see you on Election Day.
Ok, moby troll.
If Mitt Romney (or John McCain) is the nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama and all Republican Congressional candidates to ensure that Democrats and their friends the Republicrats can't enact their agenda. I am sure you will vote straight line democrat.

141

circa, you are confusing mandates with a public option. fail.

No, I am not.

You can't read, asshole.

142 I like Mitt. He doesn't talk about sex too much. And I don't like sex.

143 I promised I wouldn't do this to myself but I lied. I am gonna do it. Ron Paul for El Presidente.' No lawyer, no squish, no gov't stooge.

Now I am going to runaway. Can we haz sedition soon?

144 dude, you said medicare and medicaid were mandates. FAIL.

145 Mandates force the healthy to subsidize the sick.

No, mandates force Americans to pay for the care of millions of illegal aliens.

Americans don't mind taking care of sick Americans. That's why we have a charity hospital system and lots of donations to charity. And Medicaid and Medicare.

What we object to is paying for the health care of millions of illegal Mexican immigrants flooding into the United States at John McCain's and Lindsey Graham's fucking invitation.

Mitt Romney - like the Democrats who came before him - favors institutionalizing our paying for the health care of his illegal lawn workers from Guatemala.

My generosity stops at the border. I don't mind kicking in to take care of sick Americans, but mandates force me to pay for the health care of illegal aliens and that is what is wrong with it.

146 circa, you are confusing mandates with a public option.

They're pretty much the same things.  The insurance mandate forces people to give money to a "private" corporation to pay for medical care for everyone else.  It's the public option with a middleman skimming off the top.

147

Why do I get this same deja vu feeling that Mitt supporters are actually Obama supporters? I got the same feeling when McCain suddenly surged ahead in the primaries fueled by the crossover voting permitted in some states.

 

I think that the dems. feel that this is still the ace up their sleeve.  The RNCC has done nothing to try to remove this obvious obstruction of electing a true conservative in the primaries.  It's like they really don't want to and the dems. know it.  No wonder the dems. don't seem too worried about this coming Nov. or 2012.

148 But Mitt is an economic genius.  He is exactly the kind of conservative guy we need running our national economy right now.

149

Ron Paul for El Presidente.' No lawyer, no squish, no gov't stooge.

But apparently a truther, incoherent nutbag is acceptable.

Give it a rest.

150

I don't know whether I'm a Baker boy, since I can't for the life of me remember the last relevant Baker in high office.

I am, however, definitely a Steve King (IA) booster.  And Thad McCotter (MI).  Some Speaker chops there between the two of them.

151 I've noticed that it has become quite common these days to misuse the apostrophe. [ 's ] indicates possession or is used in a contraction... not for plurality. Keys, not key's, etc.

Leave it to a Welshman to lecture on grammar...

152 for the peanut gallery: mandates make people buy insurance, period. PRIVATE INSURANCE. mandates are in no way the equivalent of a public option. if you want to hate on Romney, come up with a fact-based reason first.

153

127 Posted by: kathleen at April 19, 2010 01:14 PM (2TeHO)


Kathleen Parker, is that you?

Posted by: Dave C at April 19, 2010 01:30 PM (qmecx)

Nope...its, I've never seen a baby I didn't wish dead -Kathleen Sebelius

what? Too much?

 

154

dude, you said medicare and medicaid were mandates. FAIL.

I missed the part where the taxes for them were voluntary.

It's on my pay statement, you see.

That's a mandate, sweetie.

155 a tax is not a mandate! sweet Jesus, get fucking informed.

156

mandates make people buy insurance, period.

And that is a tax.  Call it whatever you want.  It's a tax.

157 mandates make people buy insurance, period.

And apparently you see no problem with this?

158 Your unorthodox strategy ensures an America hating marxist 4 more years.

No it doesn't. Because Republicans don't have to nominate Mitt Romney.

My strategy if Republicans do make the mistake of nominating Romney will - I believe - ensure an ineffective America-hating Marxist is president for 4 more years instead of Mitt Romney, who would be an effective America-hating Marxist able to reach across the aisle and work with the other America-hating Marxists just like he did when he was Governor of Massachusetts.

Mitt Romney has proven that he's just as Marxist as Barack Obama.

So he won't get my vote.

I want my enemies in front of me. Not behind me. Barack Obama wants to stab me in the face. Mitt would stab me in the back.

I prefer a straight up fight.

159 You're all anti-Mormon bigots!


Hey I'm Catholic and I LOVE Mormons. They're like hippie repellent.

<FONT SIZE=-3> Side effects include: Daily proselytization, inability to drink at a pub past 9pm on Saturday, tittie bar deficiency and persistent neighborhood bake sale </FONT>

160 This story doesn't need to be true for me to be dead certain that Mitt is not our anti-Obama. The mere fact that Mitt has failed to utterly, totally abandon his former defense of mandates and Romneycare and do an aggressive 180 on them is enough.

The man is a windsock and I wouldn't trust him to pick up the phone.

161

You're all stupid. Every last one of you. You will all be swept away. Only I will survive, my beautiful beautiful self.

 

162 No he isn't Kathleen. You're confusing Romneycare with success. The health-care system in MA is collapsing, and they've got the highest premiums in New England now. Rell was talking up doing the same thing here, and thank Gods she finally came down off of that. Probably because of Abomacare, but at least she's backed off. She's retiring, maybe we can get an actual conservative who will stand up to Lyons. Anyhow, not only is the mandate explicitly unconstitutional on its face (seriously - the government mandate that you buy a product under penalty of fines or imprisonment for the privilege of being ALIVE?) but it's also horrendously unfair. You are going to force people who don't need a service to buy it not for their own benefit, but to offset the costs of those who can't afford the amount of services they consume? Really? And that doesn't even begin to get to the free-rider problem. Nor does it do anything to address the REAL problem in health-care provisioning: lack of visibility. But don't let reality intrude. Never mind that every government-run health-care system (and that's all a mandate creates, really) has failed miserably. What's that you say? How is a mandate a government-controlled health-care system? Simple: in exchange for the government guaranteeing them a customer base, they do everything the government tells them to do - and that means they get to control the provisioning and pricing of medical services through their puppets in the insurance companies. Oh, and it effectively eliminates the fee-for-service model of a truly free society. Obamacare must be repealed, and (ideally) the Constitution amended to prohibit government from forcing people to purchase things as a condition of being alive. Romney and power should never be in proximity again.

163

a tax is not a mandate! sweet Jesus, get fucking informed.

When the government tells me where to spend my money, that is a tax.

Mandates, whether for private insurance, public insurance or Velveeta supplies are taxes that remove individual choice.  Too complicated?

164

The real question is do you want to get rid of pre existing conditions or not.

The majority of voters do so then it depends on how much you want to pay for it. Mandates make the cost go down for everyone so you could go that route or you can go for high risk pool which like here in washington the state negotiates the rates in the pool with the insurance companies which is between 110% and 150% of the cost of a norman policy. The insurance companies in turn are given permission to raise their rates to their existing and new customers to cover the cost.

I live here and the insurance system in Washington in my opion is the only thing the state has done right. People in the high risk pool are happy and my insurance is good and it is cheap.

The downside to our insurance here is that the state also provides for uninsured with expanded medi cade and a seperate state program for hardship cases. Those costs are paid out of the general fund so it means higher taxes to cover it. Illegal aliens are allowed to participate in all Washington insurance programs.

165 Romney/Paul = Snowball's chance in Hell

166 Why don't you disgusting ignorant assholes listen to me? I'm smart, so smart!

167 Romney is a RINO: let him run as a Dem if he thinks a mandate is a great idea...

168 Seriously, of all the dumbass creatures to run. A Republican who's socially conservative and fiscally liberal.

169 No it doesn't. Because Republicans don't have to nominate Mitt Romney.

No kidding idiot, but that is not what you said. You said  - If he's the Republican nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama.

170 Ignoring the troll and trying to think a bit...

The insurance mandate is pretty much Fascism in its original economic definition, isn't it?  Totalitarian Gov't control of economic and other activity through the veneer of corporations...

171 Mitt Romney is a fantastic candidate for the GOP.  His background on health care is incredibly solid.

He's good looking, vaguely mentioned as some kind of businessman, and he was involved with the Olympics, which we all know is the hallmark of honesty and integrity.

Who better to stop Obama than Mitt Romney?

172 "... mandates are in no way the equivalent of a public option. if you want to hate on Romney, come up with a fact-based reason first."

Nobody said they were equivalent, but ...

OK. Here's my reason: Both Barack Obama and Mitt Romney want to force Christians and Jews (but not Muslims) to buy insurance from their political donors - under threat of IRS audits and fines and penalties and ultimately if necessary jail for not paying these taxes.

Therefore, I'm hating on Romney for that reason. He's favors the exact same policies that Barack Obama favors - as evidenced by his record as Governor of Massachusetts.

Romney is the white Obama.

173 Good one, Sentient.

174

Mandates make the cost go down for everyone

Unless you weren't paying before.

Capece?

175 Romney v3.0 = Vista

176 (seriously - the government mandate that you buy a product under penalty of fines or imprisonment for the privilege of being ALIVE?)

Alive, and not Muslim.  Hey, troll, go find a CAIR board and tell them they'd better be buying health insurance.

177 Seriously, of all the dumbass creatures to run. A Republican who's socially conservative and fiscally liberal.

Thats like having something with all the calories and fat of a Double Whopper with cheese and all the taste of brussel sprouts.

178 Ok, I am now convinced:

I'm voting for the Someguy/Kathleen ticket in 2012:  Asshats for America!

179

Unless you weren't paying before.

Capece?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 19, 2010 01:51 PM (B+qrE)

Well there is that and I misspoke there anyway. If you are young the mandates in the new law will actually make your rate go up because the new law doesn't let insurance companies charge more for older people so younger people will be making up the difference.

That's why I think high risk pools with a 6 month waiting period to keep people from buying insurnce when they get sick is the way to go.

180 87 If he's the Republican nominee, I'll vote for Barack Obama.

Posted by: someguy at April 19, 2010 01:18 PM (VRJIW)

Someguy punches up SO! FUCKING! HARD! that he smashes right up through the floor into the Democrat camp, undoubtedly to infiltrate and destroy from within. The man is fifteen steps ahead of us all, playing tri-dimensional chess while we're all sitting here like dumbasses playing checkers. Is someguy awesome or what?

181 "Mandates make the cost go down for everyone"

All mandates do is spread the rising costs of providing health care to 30 million illegal aliens amongst a larger crowd of suckers unwilling to fight for their own families, from whom these premiums are being fucking taken at gunpoint.

And it will not stop at health care. They get away with this, and the game is up. They can force you to buy anything.

America ceases to be a Republic and becomes a Corporate Kleptocracy.

You can sit there and let it occur, or you can fight it.

182

If you are young the mandates in the new law will actually make your rate go up because the new law doesn't let insurance companies charge more for older people so younger people will be making up the difference.

Cue Kathleen to tell us we don't understand.

183 if someone loses everything in a flood, and he has no flood insurance, you pay for a lot of what he recoups. it's called federal disaster aid. it's great that you want to pay for them, it really is. you're a mensch.

And you're a Moby but I'll answer anyway;

Where in Article 1 section 8 of the Constitution does the federal government have the authority to use tax money to do any of that stuff.

People who live on the beach should pay for their own insurance or suffer the consequences.

People who don't get health insurance should make other arrangements for paying for medical service. And actually, that is a VERY damn small percentage of people, other than the illegals.

184 Someguy punches up SO! FUCKING! HARD! that he smashes right up through the floor into the Democrat camp ..."

Republicans were warned not to nominate John "Amnesty" McCain or that would lead to 4 years of Marxism.

So how's that working out for you so far?

185 193 Heh, I never looked at it that way. Obama 2012!

186 He's finished. What.An.Idiot.

Nice hair though.

187 I can't vote for someone named after a piece of athletic equipment. It would be like voting for Jockstrap Jones. Nope. Can't do it.

188 I've noticed that it has become quite common these days to misuse the apostrophe. [ 's ] indicates possession or is used in a contraction... not for plurality. Keys, not key's, etc. Leave it to a Welshman to lecture on grammar... Posted by: Welsh Noodle Miners Union at April 19, 2010 01:43 PM (wnc4n) [Wipes tear from eyes] Bless you sir. I had given up correcting people about this. Somebody still cares [Bursts into tears of joy]

189 whether the govt takes the mone from me and spends it, or the threaten me with punishments if i don't spend it myself is a philosophical difference at best: a mandate is a tax is a mandate.... the operative force in both is governmanetal coercion.

a mandate that i purchase liability insurance to drive is one thing, since driving a car is a privilege, not a right.  i can get by without driving if i don't want to buy insurance or post a bond.  such authority does NOT extend into the purely personal CHOICE  of buying or not buying  health insurance, as my existence is not, under current American law, a privilege granted by the government.

190 Someguy thinks that the best way to a conservative government is to vote as liberal as possible.  Wow, he has got to be the smartest man in the world and he also warned you.

191 And actually, that is a VERY damn small percentage of people, other than the illegals.

It is only the illegal aliens who are receiving free health care in the United States.

Everybody else pays (or gets donated care).

Everybody.

Only illegals are clogging the system and refusing to pay and if a court issues a judgment against them or tries to garnish their wages, they just emigrate back home.

Romney is for forcing honest Americans to pay for dishonest Mexicans to get free health care in the United States. He also wants to grant them amnesty.

So he's no more a Republican than Barack Hussein Obama is.

He just calls himself one to get elected.

192 Mitt Romney loses the Christian Conservatives because he's a Mormon.
Mitt Romney loses the Tea Partiers because he's for socialized healthcare.

Expect the national news media to do their damndest to guarantee that Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee in 2012.  I expect a story a week to make sure his name is out there.

193 So how's that working out for you so far?

Your soooo right. We could have won with Ron Paul we should have run him instead.

194 I'll be speaking in New Hampshire next Wednesday, joncelli.

195 Mitt Romney:

Because Huckabee is extremely lame and doesn't like Mitt Romney. 


You have to wonder if these two are cohorts in some scheme to rake in millions  of contributions by inflaming those who support the fundie yet completely liberal Huckabee, or support the complete jackass that Huckabee unfairly slighted.

They both would make much better democrats than Republicans, except that to win a democrat primary you have to be pretty silly.   I guess it's not even a winnable contest... they kind just adjust the rules to favor the guy they like the most. 

We had a terrible primary last run.  Very few of these 'men' had Bush's back, either.  I think the best way to fix that is to make sure a well run state with great people and policy, like Texas, and not a swing state, is the first state to vote.  Otherwise, we have a real problem with moderates who are nearly democrats making it very hard to effectively criticize and distinguish from the Dem's nominee.  Also, since each state has different numbers of Republicans, I don't think we should pretend assigning electoral style points per state race is an accurate guess as to their chances against the democrat.

We should simply tally their votes, person to person, and nominate the one with the most popularity in the party.

196 Someguy thinks that the best way to a conservative government is to vote as liberal as possible.

No.

I believe that the best way to a conservative government is to nominate a  conservative candidate.

Mitt Romney isn't a conservative. He's a liberal Democrat. So, naturally, I don't want him receiving the nomination of my fucking party.

And yes ... it's MY party.

197 "Expect the national news media to do their damndest to guarantee that Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee in 2012.  I expect a story a week to make sure his name is out there."

Just like they did with Maverick. And it worked like a charm.

First rule of politics: Don't. Nominate. Their. Fucking. Guy.

198 Yes, it is.  Your unorthodox strategy ensures an America hating marxist 4 more years.  I'll let others judge your intellect.

Someguy's in Massachusetts. When Obama wins the state by 58.945631 percent he can point to the last decimal point and shriek "HA! I TOLD YOU SO, MOTHERFUCKERS!"

199 I hope Romney actually said it and lots of people hear about it.

Odds of the republican party doing the smart thing and nominating someone better than Romney?  Not very effing good but we have to try.

200 It is only the illegal aliens who are receiving free health care in the United States.

Everybody else pays (or gets donated care).

Oh, there's plenty of native-born folks getting taxpayer-funded care through Medicaid and S-CHIP and filling up free clinics (although I suppose that $2 copay for Medicaid doesn't make it completely "free").   But those programs all go away when everyone is mandated to purchase private insurance, right?

201 I believe that the best way to a conservative government is to nominate a  conservative candidate.

Mitt Romney isn't a conservative. He's a liberal Democrat. So, naturally, I don't want him receiving the nomination of my fucking party.

So what the hell happened last time jerk? Our choices were three liberal squishes, an ugly conservative who couldn't figure out whether he was running or not, a fiscal conservative with a history of being tough on gun rights, and a guy who learned foreign policy from whatdoesitmean.com

You suck, lash that shit tighter next time.

202 I have a problem with Mitt Romney at the core, basic level.  He's absolutely of no merit, and he's the classic horrible politician slimeball who buys their way from office to office and plasters over failures with 'I'm rich so I must know the economy real well'.  He's a failure.  As governor, he destroyed his state.  He was rejected to additional office. 

His 'experience' is the boldest strike against him, though his main argument is that he's got the most experience.  It kinda matters that as a government executive he fucked up a lot.

BUT I AGREE WITH MITT that it is relevant that his takeover of health care was at the state level.  That seems like something that MA state would do.  I respect the concept of each state trying something different or nothing at all, and successful places (those that did nothing at all, of course) are the places everyone moves to.  That's a major difference from a federal application of the Romneycare disaster.

Now, it's still a huge strike against him, but I respect that one point of his.  Also, I have met Romney four times.  I shook his hand twice.  He always smells like urine.  I don't know if he's just peeing on himself or has a health problem or a bizarre cologne, but be careful if you meet him and bring some antiseptic wipes.

Watch how he walks... I think he wears a diaper.

203 Republicans were warned not to nominate John "Amnesty" McCain or that would lead to 4 years of Marxism.

So how's that working out for you so far?

Posted by: someguy at April 19, 2010 01:58 PM (VRJIW)

I beg your pardon, were you addressing ME, aunt-fucker? 'Cause I don't remember nominating the guy. Your sorry mobying ass, on the other hand, just pledged to vote for the American Chavez.

204

Drew, excellent insight on Romney as not being the anit-Obama.  I've been wishy-washy about Mitt myself, seeing the obvious strengths and liking his ability to speak extemporaneously on so many topics.

But your one comment has turned me around.   Romney can't be the one.

205 the someguy argument is jut dumb.  He was famously telling us to vote for Mccain before the nomination anyway.

He knows the readers of this blog were angry about him being nominated.  Coming here to blame US for the nomination is brazen trolling.  Why feed the troll?  He's the one who told us to pick him over Fred, very early on.  He wouldn't shut up about it and then he left for a while... I guess he's back to try to be funny about it?

Is someone just pretending to be him?

206

Now, it's still a huge strike against him, but I respect that one point of his.  Also, I have met Romney four times.  I shook his hand twice.  He always smells like urine.  I don't know if he's just peeing on himself or has a health problem or a bizarre cologne, but be careful if you meet him and bring some antiseptic wipes.

Watch how he walks... I think he wears a diaper.

 

Well that really does it.  Not only do I not want another RINO nominee, but a RINO nominee that pisses himself.

207 'People who don't get health insurance should make other arrangements for paying for medical service. And actually, that is a VERY damn small percentage of people, other than the illegals. " That would be just dandy if society weren't forced to pay for the health care upfront, before knowing whether the person can pay for it or not. and, oh yeah....the average person CANNOT POSSIBLY pay for the average catastrophic illness/accident. but other than that, great fuckin' idea!!!!

208 "But those programs all go away when everyone is mandated to purchase private insurance, right?" that would be one way of doing it. which is why arguably mandates work. which is what Romney has said. which is why you all look like idiots in this thread.

209 "As governor, he destroyed his state.  He was rejected to additional office."

We ran him out of Massachusetts. Our party ran him out.

He didn't even attempt to secure a second term. He was told not to even try. He was told to get the fuck out of our state. To his face.

And he ran away like a little pussy with his tail tucked between his legs rather than suffer the massive defeat he would have suffered at the hands of our own Republican Party.

The only reason he is still welcome anywhere near the national Republican Party is his massive pile of money. And we'll take it. Thanks moron! But he is a traitor to his fellow Republicans, a traitor to the US Constitution, and a traitor to the United States of America.

He's dead to me now (once the check clears!)

210 Is someone just pretending to be him?

Nope, that's his hash. Also it's hard to convincingly mimic that level of arrogance.

211 That would be just dandy if society weren't forced to pay for the health care upfront, before knowing whether the person can pay for it or not. and, oh yeah....the average person CANNOT POSSIBLY pay for the average catastrophic illness/accident. but other than that, great fuckin' idea!!!!

Right so rather than tackle.
a. Non-payers who pay NOTHING.
b. Inefficency in health care. (defensive medicine, litigation)

we need government mandates. Wow what a unique progressive solution, I wonder how the libbies came up with that?

212 "He was famously telling us to vote for McCain before the nomination anyway."

That was not me. And if you check closely, you will see that was a different "someguy."

I warned against nominating McCain because I believed that Republicans wouldn't turn out for him following his blatant corruption (savings and loan scandal), his anti-Constitutional McCain-Feingold free speech bans, and his attempts to force amnesty down the throats of Americans (ala Obama/healthcare).

I was correct, by the way, so maybe you should listen to me again.

Or not. Up to you.

213 "Mitt would have lost by a wider margin that McCain in 2008. Posted by: for"

I agree.  Fact is, Mccain won the nomination because he was actually one of the strongest candidates with the most effective campaigns.

And I realize how lame that sounds.  I'm not suggesting he had an effective campaign or was a strong candidate.  But we really let our country down in 2008, fellow Republicans (those of you who see yourself as such).  We have to do better.

For far too long the GOP has demanded a level of experience and resume that is simply incompatible with reality.  If a real conservative who is well spoken and has leadership potential also has experience, great.  But experience must not trump clarity on fiscal discipline. 

that's why I favor Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin and all those over people with much more impressive resumes.   That's why I love conservatives who have actually fucked over fellow but corrupt Republicans.  We need people who clearly don't give a shit about the internal GOP machine.  The Steeles and Hayworths are the enemy.  The Mccains and Romneys are totally useless.

214 "a mandate that i purchase liability insurance to drive is one thing, since driving a car is a privilege, not a right. i can get by without driving if i don't want to buy insurance or post a bond. such authority does NOT extend into the purely personal CHOICE of buying or not buying health insurance, as my existence is not, under current American law, a privilege granted by the government. " so health care is a right and not a privilege? this is the argument from the anti-Romney wing of the GOP, huh? interesting.

215 "Right so rather than tackle. a. Non-payers who pay NOTHING." that is precisely what a mandate tackles.

216 My guess is that he,didn't say it. If he did, back to Prozac for me. And if he didnt, you are reckless for saying he did. I doubt he did. It contradicts his position on states rights. Pro Mortgage bloggers will vomit first if this is true. IF.

217 "He was rejected to additional office."

Romney is the only candidate I have seen up close who was literally run out of town on a rail.

(Nixon being the only other one I've seen but I was too young to appreciate or witness it up close.)

I mean he was run out of town on a rail by his own fellow Republicans here. He is widely regarded by Massachusetts Republicans to be an actual traitor.

He's dead to us.

Dead.

218 "Right so rather than tackle.
a. Non-payers who pay NOTHING."

that is precisely what a mandate tackles.

No it doesn't. They will continue to PAY NOTHING. They will just have insurance they don't pay for.

219 "He was famously telling us to vote for McCain before the nomination anyway."

That was not me. And if you check closely, you will see that was a different "someguy."

I warned against nominating McCain because I believed that Republicans wouldn't turn out for him following his blatant corruption (savings and loan scandal), his anti-Constitutional McCain-Feingold free speech bans, and his attempts to force amnesty down the throats of Americans (ala Obama/healthcare).

I was correct, by the way, so maybe you should listen to me again.

Or not. Up to you.

Posted by: someguy"

You're lying again.  No one trusts you.  99% of the readers here were famously and loudly saying we should avoid Mccain.   So telling people they should listen to you when you don't even know they were way ahead of you is just ... well... weak.

You're attempting to compensate for your lack of rhetorical skill by lying about the people you're trying to talk to.  That's pathetic and dumb.  You're dumb.  And I am pretty sure you're the big Mccain fan from the primary.  You have the same dumb style about you.  If you aren't, you're just a very funny imitator of that idiot.  Someguy on this blog = extremely obvious advice we already knew presented as though he doesn't realize how obvious it is, or it = very bad advice.

You're struggling to tell people how to be convincing... and yet virtually no one is convinced.  You're unable to convince fellow conservatives... why should we respect you?  Just because you get the preschool level details right?  Gee... someone telling us not to nominate Mccain after he loses the election... how fucking insightful.

220 But experience must not trump clarity on fiscal discipline.

Amen.  I think this country has never before been more ready for a leader without "experience."  What we have traditionally considered experience may actually hurt a candidate. 

I think the only experience most people care about now is on security issues.  Which is why I could see a former military guy/gal without any real political experience being a great candidate.

221 "so health care is a right and not a privilege? this is the argument from the anti-Romney wing of the GOP, huh? interesting."

the only thing interesting is you willingness to look stupid in order to try and advance your argument.

my contention is that it is my right to decide if i purchase or do not purchase health insurance, and that the government has no standing to mandate that i do so, unlike the auto insurance scenario.

222 it's obvious to me that none of you know much about Romney's insurance program in Massachusetts, so you sound like idiots. You need to get a clue -- taxpayers are already on the hook for deadbeats who don't buy health insurance.

Actually no, not really.  Most of the cost of the truly uninsured is paid for not by the taxpayers but rather by the hospital passing those costs along to other patients, so most of those extra costs are spread out over their insured patients.  And for the most part uninsured patients are not a huge expense by and large to most hospitals.

The taxpayers are on the hook for medicare and medicaid patients, and the problem here is two fold.  Medicare and medicaid usually pay below costs to the hospitals for services rendered, meaning they generally pay less for the service than what it costs the hospital to perform.  The other problem is particularly with medicaid patients they go to the ER at the drop of a hat for anything.

Why?  Because even though that is the most expensive form of care available, (an average of cost to the hospital of about $300 per visit), they could care less because their not paying dime one for it.  Since they aren't paying for it, they'd much rather run down to the ER than have to call, make an appointment, and wait in line at a clinic somewhere. 

The result?  The hospital ER's are jammed with medicaid recipients who are bringing babies to the ER with diaper rash.  I kid you not - it happens pretty much on a daily basis.  They'll bring in kids with 99 degree tempratures because if they bring them in they can get tylenol for free as a perscription instead of having to spend 3 bucks of their own money on it at walgreens.  That's where the taxpayer is getting soaked.

223 "My guess is that he,didn't say it. ... I doubt he did.

Do you not believe your own eyes? Romney said he was for mandates in the 2008 Presidential Debate - astonishing Fred Thompson, who was flabbergasted that Romney admitted this fact.

Here is a link the transcript.

Read it for yourself.

Romney likes mandates. He said so himself. During a Presidential Debate.

224

Boo.

I was a Romney guy in 2008, and I still think he'd be a great President to sort out the fiscal mess that Obama and generations of congressmen have got us into.

But repealing Obamacare is going to be one of the top 2 or 3 issues of 2008, and maybe even THE issue.

Sorry, Mitt.  Sometimes the stars dont' align.

225 188 (seriously - the government mandate that you buy a product under penalty of fines or imprisonment for the privilege of being ALIVE?) Alive, and not Muslim. Hey, troll, go find a CAIR board and tell them they'd better be buying health insurance. Posted by: HeatherRadish at April 19, 2010 01:52 PM (mR7mk) I'm not a troll, Heather. I haven't said anything about muslims. In fact, I believe the only exception to Obamacare's mandate is those who cannot afford it, in which case Uncle Sugar gives them the dough to buy it so they can still meet the mandate. Which isn't much of an exception, is it? But the Obamacare plan is really a trojan horse for universal public health care anyhow. Why? 1) Mandate insurance for everyone, but set the (not to be enforced, wink wink) penalty lower than the cost of the cheapest insurance is likely to be. 2) Mandate Guaranteed Issue so that the insurance companies can't refuse you even after you've been diagnosed. 3) No incentive or penalty for dropping insurance immediately after you've gotten treatment. 4) government must approve all premium increases. You do the math. This leads to one place - bankruptcy and takeover.

226 That would be just dandy if society weren't forced to pay for the health care upfront

I have some news for you Moby; society is not "forced" to pay for it up front. The government elects to mandate to hospitals to pay for it up front because soft hearted turds like you will whine and not vote for them if they don't.

227 I mean he was run out of town on a rail by his own fellow Republicans here. He is widely regarded by Massachusetts Republicans to be an actual traitor.

"Willard Mitt Romney, this Supreme Court of the Commonwealth of Someguy finds you guilty of TREASON! It is the judgment of this court that you be taken from this basement place to Mom's backyard the Someguy Parade Grounds where you will hang from the neck until dead be put on a one-way flight to Utah!"

He's dead to us. Dead.

"You guys might want to notify the FBI about my posts now! I punch up SO! FUCKING! FAR! ALL! DAY! LONG! that I don't know when to stop and I may need an intervention!"

228 "my contention is that it is my right to decide if i purchase or do not purchase health insurance, and that the government has no standing to mandate that i do so, unlike the auto insurance scenario. " great. then you won't mind when the hospital boots you out mid-treatment when it hits the ceiling of what you can pay.

229 Other than someguy, did anyone on here advocate for Mccain?  We had a Fred versus Giuliani debate.  Some noted that Romney was better than Mccain and huckabee, but really no one prominently advocated for any of those three as a top choice except for someguy.

Now someguy is telling us we should listen to him again because he's worked out in his laboratory the earth shaking revelation that Mccain is a shitty candidate? 

Now, granted, that's true.  But we already know that.  It's the degree to which he is amazed and thinks this is cutting edge that undermines his credibility... not that he has anything helpful to say that would need some credibility to back it up.

He's got the lamest and most well worn platitudes, I guess because he's just somebody having a good time making fun of the actual someguy Mccain supporter?  Or he's some kind of idiot?  I remember him going on and on about how he's looking for 'real political operatives' who would know what it meant to not 'punch down' (which is a banal and obvious concept to 6 year olds, even though someguy didn't even understand that concept very well).

That's like saying he's looking for Formula 1 drivers who understand his breakthrough discovery that brakes slow the car down.

He's probably just a troll... maybe a funny mockery.  Altogether useless, though.

230 Now, someguy is also right about Romney, but again, that's just fucking basic shit.  That even drooling cute retard buddy, someguy, gets that romney is a fucking waste of time, should tell you something.

Romney must really suck.

231 He's probably just a troll.

Sentient, you clearly do not understand how to track the comments here, or you would understand that you're making a fool out of yourself.

All comments are tracked by a unique code.

I am not the "someguy" who was for McCain, you moron.

232

You're all anti-Mormon bigots!

Especially me, the lifelong, devout Mormon. 

233 Sentient: Nintendo 64: "... someguy is also right about Romney ..."

I'm an idiot and a moron ... but somehow, I'm always right? How does that work, exactly?

I keep hearing this from various folks here.

"Someguy is a moron. Someguy is a troll. Someguy is a moby."

But someguy always seems to be accidentally right.

It's an amazing coincidence.

234 I am not the "someguy" who was for McCain, you moron.

Your clearly compensating. Anyone could spot that.

235 Pro-Mitt, not pro-mortgage--stupid HTC Eris ipod wanna be!

236 "great. then you won't mind when the hospital boots you out mid-treatment when it hits the ceiling of what you can pay."

kind of like the hotel that kicks you out, when you don't pay your bill, or the bank that evicts you when you don't make your mortgage payment, or how the grocery or liquor store don't let you take your items without paying... or is changing that next on your agenda?

of course, the way it actually w*rks in the world where the rest of us live, off of planet kathy, is that, for elective surgery, you either have insurance or negotiate payment with the facility prior to treatment commencing, just as you would any other major purchase.  emergency treatment is rendered as needed to save life and limb, and reimbursment negotiated afterwards, because we're a civilized society that (for the most part) values individual life.

237 But someguy always seems to be accidentally right.

it has to be an accident: you don't appear smart enough to actually think things out on your own....  HTH!

238 If it wasn't caught on tape, then he didn't say it.

239 "you either [sic] have insurance negotiate payment with the facility prior to treatment commencing, just as you would any other major purchase." RIGHT. Because hospitals are psychic and know exactly what treatment you need before you need it -- at every stage -- nope, there are never surprises in medicine -- and assuming you're conscious in the first place, they can just "negotiate" a "payment" right after they've told you you have stage 4 cancer or alzheimers. yeah that's when i love to do big in depth analyses of my financial situation, and hash out the costs with insurance company lawyers ahead of time. yup, health care is just like "any other major purchase". You really are morons.

240

"I like mandates."  Didn't Barney Frank say that?  I'm just sayin'...

Re #2: "You know who this helps?"  Michelle Obama's kids?

241 Of course, if you have the analytical skill to think it's breaking news to the Ace community that Mccain's the wrong candidate a couple of YEARS ago, then you're going to think you're always right.

It's like bragging to your wife that you stopped sticking the knife in the power socket.  Good for you... you are always right!  We should really listen to your preaching.

I don't think anyone's paying attention to someguy enough to know if he's saying anything that isn't extremely obvious.  This community is 95% opposed to Romney, and yeah, someguy seems to realize that he's a bad one too.

But please don't tell me that your best qualification for being some kind of amazing prophet of politics is that you realize Mccain isn't a great choice.  Makes you sound like you were in a stupor in 2008 when we were all freaking out about Mccain winning the nomination.

It's like telling Elie Weisel that you just figured out that Nazis suck and thus he should now give you some kind of vague internet respect (this seems to be what someguy is trying so hard and failing so badly at attaining... what a douche).  He's telling people who knew earlier and articulated far better the point he's somewhat confused on.  He's unable to convince even those he agrees with (and probably whom he has copied in his quest for internet respect).  And his ultimate claim is that he's an expert on debate and convincing people?

Wow.

I'm still relatively sure this was the loudest and most obnoxious and perhaps the only outspoken Mccain supporter in 2008 on this blog.  And I wonder if this is some one who is deliberately acting like an idiot because someguy is synonymous with jackass.

Really, who cares?

242 Frankly, if you think MA healthcare will hurt Romney in a general election, you have tunnel vision.  It may be a wash, or it may help him slightly by de-fanging him in the eyes of brainwashed Americans who think Republicans are usually the devil.

There's now evidence that the whole "statement" was a mis-hearing by the blogger.

Assuming he didn't say it, Mitt remains my man.  Conservative enough, but not so "conservative" as to lose blue and purple states automatically.

Let Romney fix things; de-Obama-ize Washington.  Then you can vote for your Palins, Ryans, etc.

Get real, or get Obama until 2016.

243 RIGHT. Because hospitals are psychic and know exactly what treatment you need before you need it -- at every stage -- nope, there are never surprises in medicine -- and assuming you're conscious in the first place, they can just "negotiate" a "payment" right after they've told you you have stage 4 cancer or alzheimers. yeah that's when i love to do big in depth analyses of my financial situation, and hash out the costs with insurance company lawyers ahead of time. yup, health care is just like "any other major purchase".

You really are morons.

So your total argument is humans are unable to balance personal decisions in regards to their health with cost. I guess in your childish world where you refuse to take responsibility for yourself and your life, you need a big government to tell you how to live and what to do. Makes sense. You simply don't want to be free. Mystery solved. We do. Leave us alone.

244 You're operating under the belief that Romney actually gives a rat's ass about undoing Obamacare and the rest of his anti-growth policies. If he was able to accomplish those things with a Democrat majority against him in MA, I'd say maybe. But he went along with them, and now MA is a basket case.

245 ", if you think MA healthcare will hurt Romney in a general election, you have tunnel vision. "

You didn't make this point very well.

Obamacare is highly unpopular.  Look at a state by state poll and it's clear that Obamacare is a great issue to attack him on in 'purple' states.

So Romney is unable to take a great attack.  That's not the end of the discussion, but it's a major loss.  You're just ignoring it.

Why would we need a liberal like Romney to 'deobamaize' DC before we can vote for our 'Ryans, etc'?

Romney didn't deobamaize MA.  He made the state government far poorer and more intrusive with much higher taxes.  He was a failed governor.  He's not likely to 'deobamaize' DC at all.

And he's flipped on so many core principles.  How can anyone claim he would go in any direction?  He will go however the wind is blowing, we all know it.  He has no experience successfully holding electoral office.  He's never been reelected.  He's very bad at the kind of job he's seeking.

Sorry, but Paris's argument is just not strong enough.  He's 'not conservative enough' to turn off the purple states?  Is this a serious argument?  Did you see 2008?  The GOP didn't present an alternative to the democrat vision.  We were so mushy and 'conservative enough, but too conservative'.  This mealy mouthed crap is the opposite of leadership.  Flip flopping mushy wishy washy Republicants who are nominated specifically so they don't scare off liberals?

That's such a bad strategy.  It failed in 2008 when Obama had no experience.  In 2012 he will have more experience and we'll need someone who can point out all the problems in his administration.

Romney can't point out the disgusting relationship Obamacare sets up between state and governed, and he can't bash Obama's spending and dishonesty.  And lets not forget that Romney is a far less effective politician than Mccain.  Mccain won a lot of tough contests and was reelected several times.  Even today, he's showing some skill even though he's a total douche.  Romney lost to Mccain despite the conservative blogosphere and radio hosts strongly advocating for Romney.  He got into a lame fight with an idiot (huck) that showed he's got thin skin and no nose for tough national battles. 

He's a loser who can't compete with a real politician like Obama.  He's pretty, and that's all he's got going for him.  We don't know who is going to run against him, but I expect the pragmatic folks (good people like Paris) to agree that one of them, perhaps Rick Perry or some other governor, is a better option than Romney in every single respect.  Romney's dead in the water, and he is wise to preen about as a front runner before anyone runs against him.

I still hope a Paul Ryan joins the race.  If an actual bona fide conservative can't win after this disaster of spending, then our nation is lost.  Ryan's no extremist... he's just very well spoken on the core fears related to our spending and the entitlement culture.  He's excellent.  Listen to him and see for yourself. 

I don't care if it's Ryan specifically or someone else with those very un-Romneyism principles and solid consistency.  But if we have to elect another Mccain after THIS set of four years, then what's the fucking point? 

Romney fans keep trying to scare you.  ' If you don't pick my guy you are gauranteeding yourself 4 more years of Obama!  booga booga booga!'  That's really dishonest.  It's based on nothing, ignores that Obama is in a tie statistically with W (consider the coverage they've gotten and this is amazing), and that he won by outmaneruivering a clumsy republican.  He was able to move to Mccain's right on many many things, at least pretending to be a fiscal conservative.  He was able to effectively get cover from Mccain on a giant tower of issues because of Mccain's wishy washy record.

What Obama needs badly is for the GOP to pick someone who is liberal enough that Obama can blur the distinctions as much as possible.  And the most glaring area where he needs to do this is on Obamacare.

Romney would have lost worse than Mccain in 2008.

246 #260  His position is that healthcare is each state's business.  While that may not make him dreamy for you, you need to stop dreaming and get real.  Personally, if MA wants to be stupid and have mandates, so be it.  Let them become a min-France, if that's what it portends. 

Maybe Romney's position is a cop-out, or not satisfying, or maybe it's wise--doesn't the whole pro-life-sphere want states' rights?  What practical difference does it make, especially if MA is the basketcase that serves to scare the other 49 from going in that direction.


PS: Do you really thing Reagan won solely because of his conservative principles?  Was that even most of it for most voters?  At the very least, a lot of it was his long tenure in movies, and as a governor that reassured.

  None of the Conservatives of Your Dreams.^(tm)  are a Reagan whose long cultural legacy is going to reassure and win enough votes.

You don't need to fall in love with Romney; just know that he's conservative enough, but not so conservative (in perception) that he will lose in November:  that's the only standard that matters.

247 Hell, let's just look at how Obama took Hillary apart on the healthcare debate (a huge aspect of the dem nomination that some Republicans kinda ignore because they are all assholes and idiots on this).

He attacked her and used for cover her very Romneycare esque mandate ideas.  He ran to her right and her left.  Romney can't even be consistent on things like Ronald Reagan, and his apparatus has been bashing great conservatives since the 2008 election ended.  These people are simply not up to the task.  You need someone who is clear and consistent and has nothing to apologize for.  Someone Obama can't pretend to run to both sides of.  This is a contest about liberalism versus conservatism.  Fiscal spending versus ' you need it now and can pay for it later'. 

With the wrong guy, Obama can muddy up that debate quite a bit.  Romney is the exact kind of person he would have the easiest time doing that with.

How does Romney beat Obama?  He's not as pretty as Obama, has less executive experience than a 1 term US President, his health care proposal is proven to be a failure while Obama's isn't even in effect until after the election.

Sorry, but Romney isn't your man. 

248 It was an Unfair bullshit apples and oranges question.. One is NOT like the other.. --------------- “You have stated your intention to spearhead the effort to repeal the ‘worst aspects’ of Obamacare, does this include the repeal of the individual mandate and pre-existing exclusion?” -------------- I don't know ANYONE that wants to repeal the preexisting conditions part of Obama care.. Yes it could be repealed but everyone i have heard talk wants preexisting conditions covered(it doesnt have to be Obama's way but covered none the less)

249 Romney, McCain, Graham, the ME sisters, and Christ need to all get on a slow boat to China via the waters around Iceland.

Maybe they will be permanently lost.

250 It was an Unfair bullshit apples and oranges question.. One is NOT like the other..

--------------- “You have stated your intention to spearhead the effort to repeal the ‘worst aspects’ of Obamacare, does this include the repeal of the individual mandate and pre-existing exclusion?” --------------

I don't know ANYONE that wants to repeal the preexisting conditions part of Obama care.. Yes it could be repealed but everyone i have heard talk wants preexisting conditions covered(it doesnt have to be Obama's way but covered none the less)

251 Romney didn't deobamaize MA.  He made the state government far poorer and more intrusive with much higher taxes.

I think the second part of that, the taxes part, is a lie.  Actually the first part is too.  He governed as conservatively as one can in the most leftist state in the union where vetos can be overriden. By your logic, he should not have run for MA gov.  Or, he can't be a true conservative because he governed a non-conservative state.  I don't buy that because of the way he succeeded in the private sector, as well as how he governed in MA.

252 " conservative enough, but not so conservative (in perception) that he will lose in November:  that's the only standard that matters."

No, I think that's wrong.  I think our nation is in deep trouble and our next president has to be special and able to fix it.  We don't need a failed governor who couldn't even run for reelection because his policies were so disgraced.  Running just to the right of Obama was a total disaster.  Their campaign is so good at posing on either side of an issue.  But pick a moderate who isn't a proven failure at least.  One who didn't impose a huge financial disaster on his state.  One who didn't impose Obamacare before Obama did.  There are many other moderates you can pick who didn't actually fail.  How about someone who actually won reelection to serious office?  We don't really know who is running yet, but it's not just Romney versus Palin.  Someone will run who is moderate but isn't a total failure like Romney, and that's who you guys should support. 

253 Sentient Nintendo 64, no, obviously, Romney isn't the only game in town; just the one with the best combination of policy, experience, demonstrated smarts, campaign savvy, and fundraising savvy to pull it off.  If Obama decides not to run again, Romney becomes less compelling.

254 Do you really think Romney is the only moderate available?  Since his only office holding was a disaster, maybe pick a different moderate?  Since he's on both sides of every issue he claims is important, maybe pick a better liar or even an honest man?

Obama can beat a Mccain style moderate.  We already know that.  He won handily, and while I think he's going to lose no matter who we put up, we should not put up the same kind of loser, one who wasn't even able to beat Mccain I remind you, next round.

Let's pick someone who doesn't have to apologize for big spending and entitlement bloat.  Romney fans: do you understand that the main problem we face is that our entitlement system is out of control?  We need to have a serious discussion about the relationship between an individual and any government.  Romney will continue to totally  ignore that discussion.  Show me him forcefully arguing against the entitlement system and for taking responsibility for your personal needs.  He's not doing it because he's on the wrong side, my friends.

I get the urge to just stop Obama even if it means a moderate.  Aside from Huckabee, I would be so happy if we could make that trade.  But we still have to have this discussion about what's going wrong with America.   This is too important.  We can win this debate.  We can't win if we don't even try.

255 "RIGHT. Because hospitals are psychic and know exactly what treatment you need before you need it -- at every stage -- nope, there are never surprises in medicine -- and assuming you're conscious in the first place, they can just "negotiate" a "payment" right after they've told you you have stage 4 cancer or alzheimers. yeah that's when i love to do big in depth analyses of my financial situation, and hash out the costs with insurance company lawyers ahead of time. yup, health care is just like "any other major purchase"."

its too bad you aren't capable of making decisions for yourself, but at least the court ordered conservator (or is it your parents?) allows you to have internet access, so you can mingle with the adults.

unfortunately, you refuse to understand what we are saying because it interferes with your preconceived notions. obviously, your power point deep, internet acquired, sound bite based knowledge of the health-care field trumps my eighteen years of practical experience in the industry. how could i possibly know more than you about how it w*rks?

i bow to your superior deliberate ignorance and the accompanying enthusiastic willingness  to abjure your freedom of choice, independence and informed consent for an illusory promise of security that even Helen Keller could see was bullshit.

HTH. HAND. FOAD.

256 I'll bet Romney delivers a graceful concession speech when he loses to Obama.

257 Do you really think Romney is the only moderate available?

In all honesty, who is a "conservative," and who is a "moderate"?  And is center-right the same thing as "moderate"?  Other than healthcare, what issue makes Romney a moderate and not a conservative?

258 "and his hair will be ... perfect."

Mmm Mmm!  We'll all feel so proud, and after his landslide loss to Obama, I'll bet that even MSNBC will be mildly complimentary that night.

259 And we can build on that in order to take it all in '16!  '20 at the absolute latest.

Romney's the key to it all and definitely our way back to the top...no later than 2024.  Bank on it!

260 aw red, you are so persuasive and your insults have really ruined my day.

261 "So your total argument is humans are unable to balance personal decisions in regards to their health with cost." not quite, my *total* argument would include the phrase "non-psychic, non-billionaire humans"

262 "In all honesty, who is a "conservative," and who is a "moderate"?  And is center-right the same thing as "moderate"?  Other than healthcare, what issue makes Romney a moderate and not a conservative?

Posted by: ParisParamus at April 19, 2010 04:08 PM (dFoMj)"

Well, YOU'RE the one telling us we shouldn't elect someone who is too conservative.  That is what the word moderate means.

I'm not asking a difficult question.  It shouldn't be so hard to answer.  Romney is, to you, a moderate.  Don't pretend.  And for fuck's sake, if you can't think of an issue beyond Romney care that makes him a moderate, you have destroyed your own argument that Romney is not too conservative to turn off swing states that elected Bush twice.

Do you see how this works?

Sometimes, Romney fans just refuse to do anything but argue.  They can't have a serious discussion or admit anything... it's all some crazy chess game for getting Romney power no matter what.  Now he's the super conservative on every issue but one.  A minute ago, he was the opposite.  Whatever works.

Look, if you don't think he's a moderate then go away.  If you do, tell me why you think he's the only one, since he's had such a massive disaster on his record, we should see what other moderates have to compare with that.

Oh, we're talking about someone who was cool with abortion at one point, who spent way too much, who was into all kinds of government programs, and who won a statewide election in MA... you can't even admit he's a moderate.  Good Lord.  He bashed Ronald Reagan.  He is hardly the right winger of the GOP.

263 One giant cauldron of bullshit, they haven't changed the recipe for 50 years. And folks thinking they can tell the difference between R and D. It's like splittin hairs peeps, they all do the same shit. Steal you blind..and you drink their one party mongrel kool aid, served fresh...every 4 years.

Can I haz sedition yet?

264 AP has a post up at hotair but comes to the wrong conclusions relying on a moron..

but, per Philip Klein, the two really are a package deal. If youÂ’re going to force insurance companies to accept people with costly pre-existing conditions, you need a much deeper revenue pool to pay for it.

Read what Paul Ryan wrote

http://tinyurl.com/y59f7ag

Then, when helping Americans with pre-existing conditions obtain coverage, we should focus on innovative state-based solutions, including robust high-risk pools, reinsurance markets and risk-adjustment mechanisms. I intend to continue advancing true patient-centered reforms like attaching tax benefits to the individual rather than the job, breaking down barriers to interstate competition, and promoting transparency and consumer-friendly coverage options.

the two are only a package deal if you want them to be.

265 but, per Philip Klein, the two really are a package deal. If youÂ’re going to force insurance companies to accept people with costly pre-existing conditions, you need a much deeper revenue pool to pay for it. Thats why you rely on reducing costs and introducing interstate competition.

266 If a year ago, Romney had used the Massachusetts' failure as an argument against HCR, he's be sitting pretty right now.  He didn't and he's not.

Too much pride brings the downfall.

Posted by: toby928 at April 19, 2010 03:10 PM (PD1tk)

Romney thought MassCare would propel him into a 2008 victory. He thought wrong. Given his track record, would anyone believe him if he apologized and said he changed his mind?

267 not quite, my *total* argument would include the phrase "non-psychic, non-billionaire humans"

Posted by: kathleen at April 19, 2010 04:29 PM (2TeHO)

Insurance companies are hardly psychic when they decide what you will pay. If I eat healthy, exercise, have good genes, have no bad habits, and I'm young, my insurance would be comparatively inexpensive for a reason. But there is also a chance I won't need it for a while. Which I why I don't have it. Yet, the reason I'm supposed to buy it is so it's more affordable for other people. That is BS. I'm being taxed for having good health then.

268 You don't need to fall in love with Romney; just know that he's conservative enough, but not so conservative (in perception) that he will lose in November:  that's the only standard that matters.

Posted by: ParisParamus at April 19, 2010 03:43 PM (dFoMj)

Being conservative is hardly a liability this year. The less like Obama a candidate is, the better their chances of winning. Scott Brown was elected in MA, and he campaigned on one issue... "I will be the 41st Republican vote to block the Democrats' filibuster-proof majority and defeat ObamaCare."

Americans still hate it, and MA hates it even more. Romney would not have won another term as Governor, and he ran for higher office and was defeated.

269 Scott Brown was elected in MA

Uh...since Brown didn't advocate repeal of MA's health insurance system, just how does this prove Obamacare = MA's system?

As I've written before, Medicaid funds pay for the low income end of MA's mandate; you only pay out-of-pocket if you make significant income.  That sounds like a dedicated income tax to me--one you can opt-out of by getting health insurance.

You may hate your state's income tax, too, but if it's simply an income tax, that kind of takes what MA has out of the realm of constitutional evil, no?

Bottom line:  the government already pays for the selfish SOBs who can afford health insurance but don't get it.  It may still be objectionable, but not in the fundamental way in which it's usually portrayed.  There's other crap in MA's regime thats bad--the level of mandated coverge, and apparent control on ins. rate increases, but that's not Romney's doing.

In other words what MA has may not be a good idea, or your cup of tea, but nor is it constitutional/natural law evil.

270 Interesting article on how f'd up NY is without mandates; is Romney responsible for this, too?

http://tinyurl.com/yk6kpns

271 "If it wasn't caught on tape, then he didn't say it."

That's right. But it was caught on tape you see, in the 2008 ABCNews Presidential Debate on live television.

Everyone in the country heard Willard Mitt Romney say: "I love mandates."

My bet is that he'd like to have a mandate with Barack Obama.

272 stop trying Parisparamus, the "conservatives" here are just the right wing version of daily kos. they know little and say much.

273 "Insurance companies are hardly psychic when they decide what you will pay." that's why they hire actuaries, genius.

274 Romney denies making these comments but let's be frank, whether he did or not he can't be the Republican nominee.  That was decided when he created his own health care Frankenstein in MA.  If you were behind Romney you need to move on because the South and the Tea Partiers won't vote for him.  If you think the Tea Partiers will vote for someone who did exactly the same thing in MA as they have been protesting the feds doing under Obama then you really do believe it is about skin color and not about tyranny. 

Pretty much anybody can beat Obama the next time out so there is no need to settle for Huckabee or Romney.  There are lots of able bodied and brilliant people around.  Obama isn't exactly the brightest bulb on the tree so it shouldn't be very difficult to find someone to outshine him.  Even your platform will write itself,  "I will undo every single thing Obama did while in office."

The only caveat to keep in mind when choosing a candidate on the right is that they had better be clean as a whistle because the media will do to them what they did to Palin.  She has lead as clean a life as is humanly possible in politics and we see what they tried to do to her. 

Obama, on the other hand, could line the media up against a wall and they would use their final breaths to file a report about how much more humane execution is as opposed to water boarding.

275 Allah says the blogger in question is Kavon Nikrad of race2012.   He is notoriously anti-Romney.    Hardly an unbiased source.    Next time let's ask Obama how to run the tea party protests.   No difference.

276 Some stalwart that Conservative Establishment fell behind.

277 287 One giant cauldron of bullshit, they haven't changed the recipe for 50 years. And folks thinking they can tell the difference between R and D. It's like splittin hairs peeps, they all do the same shit. Steal you blind..and you drink their one party mongrel kool aid, served fresh...every 4 years.

Can I haz sedition yet?

Posted by: Lunatic Fringe at April 19, 2010 05:42 PM (uFdnM)

+1

Two groups of crooks. The only way out of this is to find someone who hasn't been through the machine.