1 There is more reason to believe he is a muslim than there is to think he is a christian. And in muslim nations, they consider him to be a muslim.

2

"He was raised in a Muslim country by a Muslim stepfather, and he attended a Muslim school during his impressionable youth. <snip> With all that being said, it's one hell of a jump to conclude that Barack Obama IS a Muslim, practicing or not."

Not saying he's a Muslim or that Lehman got anything right, but this is one hell of a jump in your eyes?  Really?

3 I believe that Kim Lehman recklessly accused Barack Obama of being a Muslim, based on nothing but the desire to defeat him politically. This may be acceptable behavior if your name is Dick Morris and you're an amoral political hack; however, I expect a self-declared Christian activist to behave in a Christian manner. And for God's sake, forgetting Christianity for a second, her charges and her idiotic response to being called on them is just plain STUPID. Stupidity is bad, but stupidity combined with hypocrisy is worse.

We conservatives worry *far* too much about playing nice. If in order to win politically we had to unfairly trash Obama I would demand we fire any member of the political leadership that refused to participate with gusto.

In this case though your second point holds true. This is stupid. And we've got more then enough stupid in the Republican party leadership as is.

But again, if you want to play nice and are willing to lose to stand up for your nice principles, get the hell out of conservative politics, now.

4

Out with her.

Have to start flushing these losers.

5
 I don't care if he worships toad hips at midnight. I want him OUT of office according to custom, and his adherents to suffer that same outcome.

 This November will begin the process.

6 She sounds like the typical RNC national leadership to me except they wold not accuse Obama of anything.

After all, we have nothing to fear from an Obama Presidency, or so someone in Republican leadership once said.

7

Until I see a pic of The Won on his Oval Office prayer rug facing Mecca, this is a complete non-starter for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bammy wants us to be talking about this rather than, oh, say, 27% drops in housing purchases.

8 yeah, but is she hott?

9 Like most leftists, Obama's an atheist who pretends to be moderately Christian to sway voters, but favors Muslims because of his heritage as well as their "victim" status and "otherness".

10 There is more reason to believe he is a muslim than there is to think he is a christian. And in muslim nations, they consider him to be a muslim.

Posted by: real joe at August 24, 2010 12:48 PM (IpIBJ)

So you don't consider going to an assembly where they hate Jews, America, Italians, and Whitey to be proof of Obama's deep Christian roots? Racist!!!

11 He was born a muslim to a muslim father.
He was raised and educated as a muslim in a madrassa in Indonesia during his childhood.
Which religion do people usually identify with? The one they were raised with as a child.
He bows to the king of arabia.
The most beautiful sound to him is that screeching noise from the minaret.
He has publicly referred to his muslim faith and that he would stand with muslims against his fellow Americans.
What is the evidence he is a christian? 20 years of listening to the hate-filled racist rants of Rev. Wright?

12 With all that being said, it's one hell of a jump to conclude that Barack Obama IS a Muslim, practicing or not.

You assume I'm religious instead of just tribalist.

13 So, Obama is a gay Muslim?

(TL; DR)

14 *YAWN*

The press was running stories asking whether George W. Bush was "really" a Christian. I can't remember this much angst and whining over that.

15 Does Barack Obama have Muslim sympathies? From a human standpoint, I would HOPE so. He was raised in a Muslim country by a Muslim stepfather, and he attended a Muslim school during his impressionable youth. I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath...

Hey, you know who's a psychopath by those standards? Wafi Sultan. Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The son of the Hamas leader hiding in San Diego. Walid Shoebat.

Anyone with that much exposure to Islam who isn't entirely unsympathetic to it is the psychopath, dude.

16 it's one hell of a jump to conclude that Barack Obama IS a Muslim, practicing or not.

There's the cultural thing where he's considered one because his father was one. I'm kind of entertained that the "xenophobic ignorant hatespewers" are aware of this, and take the cultural norm at face value, while the "multicultural" left pretends it doesn't exist, except when it might get them something.

17 TL R
Can somebody summarize why it's the responsibility of folks on the right to defend Obama's "muslim faith"?

I think the poll results on that and the 58% who aren't "sure" he was born here are less about the belief in the facts than people jumping to the "I hate you, asshole" option.  Which is his problem and his party's problem, not ours.

18 It's a pity that it's not true.

Actually, it certainly seems to be, according to reports that came out:

“The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim,” said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit on Nile TV.

It wouldn't be difficult to check Nile TV for this.

19 Obama is a socialist commie. That's his religion. The rest is just commentary.

20 “The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim,” said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit on Nile TV.

Of course, that wasn't during the speech, itself, but it was a discussion surrounding the Cairo Leg of the Traitor Tour.

21 Posted by: real joe at August 24, 2010 12:53 PM

Also: he has tasked NASA (NASA!) with the job of sucking up to Muzzies. And he has allowed the State Department to send the GZ mosque imam on a taxpayer-funded "goodwill" tour of Muzzie-Land. And he supports the GZ mosque.

22 Obama said he wasn't a muslim so if you say he is one you are insane. He never lies. Obamacare will also be a budget reducing bill. He will close Gitmo in a year. Veto warrentless wiretaps against suspected terrorist. Not sign any bil that raises taxes one dime on 95% of Americans. Get all troops out of Iraq. Not appoint lobbyist to his admin. And is against people opting out of his healthcare legislation going to jail or paying a penalty. Oh and pledged to take public financing for his campaign.

23 Potemkin village anyone?

24 What Lehman said was both incredibly stupid and opportunistic for the Dem opponents.  Even Alvin Greene has more sense than that.  I think it's fair to say she doesn't care if her behavior damages the GOP.

25 There's the cultural thing where he's considered one because his father was one. I'm kind of entertained that the "xenophobic ignorant hatespewers" are aware of this, and take the cultural norm at face value, while the "multicultural" left pretends it doesn't exist, except when it might get them something.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at August 24, 2010 12:57 PM (9PzaA)

I remember when I did some research on Al-Andalus, the "tolerant" Muslim regime in Spain in the Middle Ages, that one could be executed as an apostate for proclaiming Christianity if your father was Muslim even if you never declared yourself to be a Muslim. 

At least a large swath of Islamic law indeed considers Obama to  be a Muslim apostate even if he, reasonably, does not.

26 Sorta O/T.  Iowa, WTF?

Beat Whitey Night at the Iowa State Fair

27 The bitch didn't finish her pancakes.

28 20 It's a pity that it's not true.

Actually, it certainly seems to be, according to reports that came out:

“The American President told me in confidence that he is a Muslim,” said Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit on Nile TV.

It wouldn't be difficult to check Nile TV for this.

Lying and spreading such conspiracy theories is an art form in the Middle East. Even for high-ranking government officials and well-educated scholars.

29 OT but has T. Coddington Van Vorhees VII checked in with 0bama?  Mertha's Vineyard is in his neighborhood, after all.

30 Right wingers spin the wildest and most corrosive slurs. He is absolutely not a Muslim! .....
..... not that there's anything wrong with that!

31 This is a boy who called wolf story.

Obama was so taken with Crazy Jerry Wright and his House o' Hate that Crazy Jerry presided at his wedding, Obama went to Crazy Jerry's  House o' Hate for twenty years, and he named one of his books, the Audacity of Hope, after one of Crazy Jerry's sermons. But when certain embarrassing videos of Crazy Jerry came out, Obama hardly knew the guy and never listened to any of his sermons.

Despite the fact that Obama's political career began in Crazy-Evil Bill Ayers's living room but Obama hardly knew the guy.  He was just another guy in the neighborhood.  Hell, Ayers would have made the paperboy a senator if he'd just stop throwing the paper on the roof.

Now Obama is telling us that despite all of the evidence against him, we are supposed to take his word for it that he's not Islamic.  And just forget about his history of lying to cover up just what an anti-American hate monger he really is.   

Sorry Obama, regardless of whether you actually are or are not Islamic,  you are overdrawn at the credibility bank.

32 What really annoys me the most is how, in every story about this, the MFM is compelled to state, "which he is not."
Well how TF would they know, all they do is provide cover.

33 He's not Muslim, because he knows that Sharia couldn't possibly apply to him of all people. Same with Christianity- Commandments are for losers! He is the most highly developed Empty Vessel yet created. A God of One. He couldn't possibly revere or even take seriously a carpenter, a trader, or anyone without an Ivy League education. He'll certainly be sympathetic to Islam, because the enemy of my enemy, etc. But the most exalted Being or Force in Barack Obama's world is Barack Obama himself. Fore!

34 Lying and spreading such conspiracy theories is an art form in the Middle East. Even Especially for high-ranking government officials and well-educated scholars.

Pardon me, fixed that for you.

35
where's Ace's Hitchens post?

36 Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 24, 2010 01:00 PM

But of course Osama Obama's Muzzie-ness is not a "hill worth fighting for."

Neither was his birth certificate. School/work records? Naaaah.

Connections to terrorists (domestic and foreign), hate-mongers and race-hustlers? Fuggeddaboutit.

Hell, all we can do is issue NRO-style polite little whimpers and make Tepid Air-type "fair and balanced" comments when the Traitor-in-Chief's regime pisses on the Constitution.

It'd be nice if conservatives grew a pair and issued a "General McAuliffe" response to to the Chicago Jesus's demand that we surrender. Not expecting it, though.

37 Sorta O/T.  Iowa, WTF?

Huh.  Remember the 2007-2008 caucus season, when the lefty drones went on and on about how amazing it was Obama did so well there because there's no black people in Iowa?

38 I don't care if he's a moose-limb as long as half the country believes he's a moose-limb.

And that he blew Larry Sinclair.

39 35 I do not think the MFM realizes how many people think they lie to them now. Honestly from the last poll I saw it was around 50% who thought they lied to get Obama elected.

40 Alright, you morons; smile for the effin' camera!

41
this post stuck in limbo?

42 Russ, from what you're saying she seems less a fanatic and more a DNC plant. She seems to do everything that helps the DNC. She seems to support pro-abortion candidates (including stealth ones). And this Obama is a muslim thing comes out at such a convenient moment.

43 Didn't Ace tell us last night he was going to give us a really funny Chrissy Matthews thread today?

Lord knows we need something funny.  I've been feeling like hurting baby kittehs lately (not really, but still).

44 o/t Scott Brown, evil RINO, is acting most un-Rinoish by touring the US for GOTV and fundraising to help struggling conservative GOP congressional candidates, to help raise $$ for Rossi and Fiorina (with 2 of the most expensive media markets in the nation), and to help Kirk raise even more ungodly $$ to help him unload on Ali G after Labor Day. Hate him for some of his backstabbing votes. But he is a cashcow for raising money in the house races we need to fight for-what Ace has described as "the next 30 most vulnerable seats". Brown is in particular raising money for Chabot and Stivers in Ohio. I KNOW he is evil, but unlike the other RINOs, he is willing to throw in and help in the GOTV. You have Hagel fundraising for Sestak. Bloomberg doing the same. Collins and Snowe staying put. Brown isn't near the same level as these losers.

45 43 Alright, you morons; smile for the effin' camera!
How embarrassing, I was watching porn when that was taken.

46 Can't we just agree that this was a stupid tactical move without bending over backwards to insist that President Affirmative Action isn't a Muslim?

For God's sake, Russ, you don't know one way or another, so why take that position?

Given his background and sympathies he may very well be one. Or maybe, as others have said, he simply sympathizes with them and is actually an atheist.

Either way, it doesn't much matter, does it? He clearly sympathizes with terrorists-- both the the home grown Bill Ayers type and the ones who provide them cover under the guise of "moderate Islam."

And that's the real point.

So fuck defending him.

47 Obama is the founder and chief deity of Obamaism.

48 where's Ace's Hitchens post?

http://tinyurl.com/2uo36x5

49 "There is no god but Obama and the MFM are his messenger."

50 There were certain locutions in the Cairo speech that no Christian would or should use.  For example, President Present said: ". . . when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims, and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra -- (applause) -- as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed, peace be upon them, joined in prayer."

The calling of God's blessing on the reposed prophets is a common idiom in Islam.  It makes no sense, however, for a Christian to ask for God's blessing upon Jesus as if he were merely a dead prophet.  In fact, it's tantamount to blasphemy and apostasy.

51 She's still no stupider or weirder than Alan Grayson, and he's an elected official. 

52

Beat Whitey Night at the Iowa State Fair

Nice work Obama, Holder, et al.  Nice work.

53 28 As mentioned in the article, this is not something new.  It was all the rage in Decatur not that long ago (and to a lesser extent in Champaign/Urbana and Danville; although the cops pretty much stopped it, over complaints from the race panderers, bleeding hearts, and lefties; funny, the few black churches who try to speak out against the violence never get any media time) -- and that is a town with some serious racial issues; you should hear the stuff coming out of their local hip hop station.  The heartland has a lot of the same issues as either coast -- it just doesn't get reported as often.

54 ...aaaaand Reuters has Barky's approval underwater, 45/52.

Wonder when the circling of wagons will begin.  Provided, of course, he knows how to make a circle...

55 "I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath" Really? Reaally? Did you just say that?

56 If you are serious... Please define what a Muslim is. Then, we can all go down the list.

57 thoughts
1. we do not know what was said in private meetings, but from what i recall one participant has claimed that Obama said he was a muslim in private. This is not evidence that he was a muslim, but only proof that one of the two people in the room is a liar, so it is understandable that it was not widely reported or dwelled upon.
2. 48% voted against Obama in '08, of those maybe 45% based their decision on issues and 3% on race. Of the 52% that voted for him, maybe 35% made the decision based on issues, 10% based on race, and 8% because they did not want to be smeared with the racist label of the 3%.
Therefore, the best strategy for the dems in '10 is to find racism and accuse the whole fucking country of being racists. Some people will vote D just to prove they are not racists.
The best thing the R's can do is to change the subject back to the economy. fast.
3. forget about muslim, the fucking guy is a full bore socialist. When did that become acceptable in the US? didn't we fight WWII and the cold war against Socialism? weren't we so fucking smug in the 70's when Europe kept getting socialist parties creeping into their system? what the fuck happened?

58 -->Lying and spreading such conspiracy theories is an art form in the Middle East.

It's an art form among muslims.  Hey!  The Precedent does the same thing, himself, all the time.  What a coincidence!

Of course I don't trust the Egyptian Foreign Minister.  I don't trust him as compared to any Westerner.  But I do think he lies less often than the Indonesian Imbecile does.

And the Egyptian minister's claim that The Precedent told him he was a muslim is not a "conspiracy theory".  So many of you have no concept of what that term means.  You ought to stop using it.  I would wonder, though, why the US government had nothing to say about that "lie"?  Is it often that foreign ministers make public lies about other leaders that aren't addressed, especially with respect to something as sensitive (as obvious by all the "conservatives" who are quick to assume The Precedent isn't the biggest liar we have ever seen in the White House) issues?  This is a new one for me.

-->Even for high-ranking government officials and well-educated scholars.

Posted by: Pyrocles at August 24, 2010 01:04 PM (cv5Iw)

Yes.  The Egyptian Foreign Minister is clearly a guy who lies all the time.  No one would dispute that.  The Indonesian Imbecile lies all the time.  No one with a brain would even try to dispute that.  Between the two, who do would you trust, the one with nothing to gain by stating something that, if incorrect, could result in serious harm to Egypt because of a US reaction?  Or do you trust the Indonesian who could only manage to utter "merci buckets" when asked about foreign languages he speaks, even though he's fluent in Bahasa?

Think, man.

59

We conservatives worry *far* too much about playing nice.

Yeah, like playing fair has made the MSM treat us fairly.  Or honestly.  Or anything except the normal, usual lying, cheating, covering up truth, creating hoaxes, bla, bla, bla.

60
Warden is right as usual. (no homo)

This non-story deserves nothing more than a shrug from us.

61
This post is very Ed Morrisseyey.

62 Posted by: CAC at August 24, 2010 01:13 PM (lV4Fs)

--Bingo.  Purity is fine in deep red states (*COUGH* _{see the primaries today} *COUGH*) but the likes of Brown and Kirk are what we need to lay the foundation for an even bigger rout in '12.

Plus, Boxer, Moonbeam and the Mobster are too loathsome to take for putrity's sake.

63 Speaking of stupid Republicans, did anybody catch Mark Levin yesterday?  He played a number of clips of big shot Republicans just after the 2008 election tragedy stating that the only hope for the Republican party was to smooch up to Obama.  Absolutely sickening in addition to being completely tactically wrong.

64 And nobody gives a shit aboot Iowa...not even Iowans.

65 The MFM has also gone out of its way to slander anyone at a tea party. So if you went to one, and saw on TV how you were a racist shill for an insurance company, why the fuck would you believe the MFM when it says "trust us he's Christian"? The MFM has no crdibility, and neither does the Stuttering John wannabe we have in the WH. Personally I think this issue is jinned up to deflect from his shitty economy and shitty stand on the gzm and I don't give a fuck if he's a scientologists.

66 The Republicans shouldn't beat the "BHO is a muslim" drum too hard (or at all), there are so many better things to bash him on that don't sound whiny and petty, which is what Republicans sound like when they claim BHO is a muslim.  It's not going to gain you swing votes when your lead argument is that BHO is a muslim, especially when BHO is not up for election in 2010.

67

Beat Whitey Night at the Iowa State Fair

Nice work Obama, Holder, et al.  Nice work.

Posted by: jewells at August 24, 2010 01:15 PM

Who cares? Here's the important news, linked to on the same page:

http://bit.ly/bDC87D

68 28 Sorta O/T.  Iowa, WTF?

Beat Whitey Night at the Iowa State Fair

Posted by: Bomber at August 24, 2010 01:03 PM (qzoN5)

The kicker of this story is the ending:

State Rep. Ako Abdul-Samad Democrat from Des Moines said he wasn't sure if the beat whitey night attacks were racially motivated. He didn't have enough information. What? This is how mole hills become mountains Mr. Abduk-Samad.

69 Does anyone here, including Russ, doubt that The Precedent likes muslims more than Christians (or Jews)?  Anyone?

Let me hear from someone who thinks that The Precedent has shown more of an affinity for Christians than for muslims - forgetting whatever you think his "religion" is.

Give me one example where The Precedent favored Christians or Jews over Muslims.  Just one.

70 If she's a Democrat, or a Democrat patsy... that's all you need to know to find her in discredit.

71 "Obama is a Muslim" is equivalent to "Obama is not an American Citizen", it's a distraction from what he really is; an income re-distribution socialist who wants to re-structure the US into European Socialist country.

Just ignore it, like you would a fart from Grandma at Thanksgiving.

72

Obama isn't a Muslim.

He went to a racist Anti American church for 20 years. I don't know what kind of religion that is.

73 Boehner preperes to raise fifty million to fund Republican campaigns. Will this put the cabash on the Tea Party candidates chances? http://tinyurl.com/28qvws7

74 I don't think Obama is a Muslim.  I think he's a Communist who believes the Muslims will be nice to him because he's their buddy.  I believe Obama is an athiest.  He is not a Christian.  He doesn't talk like one, he doesn't live like one. 

75
This is the kind of pre-November fuck up I've been fearing.  Stupid republican leaders who aren't Snopes savvy.

On its own this isn't bad but a lot of this will turn people off.

76 -->and he attended a Muslim school during his impressionable youth.

Actually, it was more pointed, he attended a Catholic school but was registered as a muslim.  That is much, much more than merely "attended a muslim school".

77 They don't make it easy for themselves on this point: http://tinyurl.com/3ym3vwa

78 But when grandma farts at Thanksgiving, you beat the dog. Not sure what that means in this context.

79

"This post is very Ed Morrisseyey."

I don't read Ed much at all, so if this is a way of saying that this post is sorta crappish, then I get it.

80

Nine coconuts is correct as well as Warden -- the Republicans need to forget about the muslim thing -- just go after him for the economy and his attempts at end running the Consitution and balance of powers.  The other stuff -- just make a few comments to keep the emotional heat up, and then focus heavily on the "important stuff". 

81 There is no such thing as Taquiyya.

82 77 Boehner preperes to raise fifty million to fund Republican campaigns. Will this put the cabash on the Tea Party candidates chances? http://tinyurl.com/28qvws7

Posted by: sonnyspats at August 24, 2010 01:22 PM (2DxKT)

Corzine out-spent the "Scourge of Dunkin Donuts" Chris Christie 5-to-1. Who's working Trenton, today?

83

He went to a racist Anti American church for 20 years. I don't know what kind of religion that is.

The actual denomination is Church of Christ Congregational.  AKA United Church of Christ.  They believe in everything and nothing.  They don't accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God and they reject Jesus as a deity.  They believe all roads lead to Heaven.

84 #65 If the RINOs are willing to help conservatives out, as Brown is doing for Ohio congressional hopefuls, it shows where their true loyalties lie. If they go out and endorse Democrats, it shows where their true loyalties lie. to even equate Brown with the likes of shitstained boxershorts like Hagel is absolutely insulting, despite how angry some of his votes might make us. He is ready willing and able to help us where we need it- New England, Ohio, Washington, California, Illinois. Fuck "defending" our territory. We need to be going into THEIR districts. Into THEIR states. I want a bloodbath so massive, they need a new tub.

85 78 This, and he panders to whoever gave him a handout or would give him a hand up (and the Muslims definitely fall into this category).  Plus he can use this as a diversion and a way to poke the bear -- which he will always do.

86 82 But when grandma farts at Thanksgiving, you beat the dog. Not sure what that means in this context.

Posted by: Penfold at August 24, 2010 01:24 PM (1PeEC)

Someone find out where Joe Biden is hiding out...

87 The Republicans shouldn't beat the "BHO is a muslim" drum too hard (or at all), there are so many better things to bash him on that don't sound whiny and petty, which is what Republicans sound like when they claim BHO is a muslim.

I totally agree with this. We also shouldn't bother to defend him from people who do believe that.

Just let the doubt fester. It's already there among a lot of people--for good reason, in my opinion--and that doubt creates further distrust of him. So just let it be.

If any Republican official is asked by some media sucker of cock whether they personally believe Obama is a muslim, the response should be, "I'm more concerned about Obama's 20 year affiliation with Reverand Wright's anti-semetic hate church than I am about whether he's muslim or not."

88  Can't we just agree that this was a stupid tactical move without bending over backwards to insist that President Affirmative Action isn't a Muslim?

For God's sake, Russ, you don't know one way or another, so why take that position?

Given his background and sympathies he may very well be one. Or maybe, as others have said, he simply sympathizes with them and is actually an atheist.

Either way, it doesn't much matter, does it? He clearly sympathizes with terrorists-- both the the home grown Bill Ayers type and the ones who provide them cover under the guise of "moderate Islam."

And that's the real point.

So fuck defending him.

Posted by: Warden at August 24, 2010 01:14 PM (fE6tn)

 

  Really?  You see a defense of Obama in my post?  How's the weather on your planet?

 

  My post is about people making UNTRUE or UNPROVABLE charges against Obama.  Lord knows there's plenty of real faults in his character to criticize that nobody should feel the need to make shit up.  If it gets to the point where we NEED to lie about the man to defeat him, then we're no better than the Progressives.

89 This post is very Ed Morrisseyey.
Posted by: the captain's log at August 24, 2010 01:18 PM

You got that right, buckaroo.

Same goes for many of the comments.

This business of telling us what we shouldn't go after Osama Obama about is getting really old. I'm beginning to think nobody has the balls to go after him for anything.

I wouldn't care about his religion (or even his birthplace) if he was where his actions suggest he should be: in the unemployment line. Or, better, in prison.

90 My post is about people making UNTRUE or UNPROVABLE charges against Obama.

Somebody pointed out last night that the Republican response should be "Of course he's a Christian.  He attended Jeremiah Wright's  church for 20 years".

91 Who honestly cares if he's a muslim?

He's a lib. And where hating America is concerned, the only difference between libs and Islamists is the dishtowel.

92 If anyone thinks Jeremiah Wright's church had anything to do with Christianity...

93 91  Or better yet: "I'm more concerned about what he's doing to the economy, his actions regarding constitutional law and separation of powers, and his stances on national security vis a vis the situations in Iran and A-stan".

94
Russ, I love you, but you forgot the phrase In fairness...

95 79
This is the kind of pre-November fuck up I've been fearing.  Stupid republican leaders who aren't Snopes savvy.

On its own this isn't bad but a lot of this will turn people off.

Posted by: Dang at August 24, 2010 01:23 PM (Chg7a)

Eh...no worries, Gibbs & Biden are waaaay overdo for some monumental stupidity.

 Besides as Herr pointed out...

 They don't make it easy for themselves on this point: http://tinyurl.com/3ym3vwa

96

My post is about people making UNTRUE or UNPROVABLE charges against Obama.  Lord knows there's plenty of real faults in his character to criticize that nobody should feel the need to make shit up.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at August 24, 2010 01:27 PM (/MEFr)

There's more than enough proof for someone to reasonably assume that the Indonesian Imbecile remains a muslim.

While the RNC lady was incorrect in stating that he said that during the Cairo speech, though he clearly showed everyone during the speech that his affinities lie with muslims (which really is what the idea of "being a non-practicing muslim" means). However, she could have cited the Egyptian Foreign Minister (and the US' non-response) as proof that she is not off on some crazy tangent.

How about backing our people up, especially when they make statements that are reasonable - and the idea that The Precedent is a muslim (or just prefers muslims over Westerners, which should be clear to everyone with a brain) is a reasonable one to make.

97
If it gets to the point where we NEED to lie about the man to defeat him, then we're no better than the Progressives.

Russ, you see the point we're trying to convey to you? It's right there above. You keep using the pronoun we. We didn't do anything. We don't need to take ownership of every utterance made by a Republican.

98 99 yeah, like that will get mentioned in our press...

99 He went to a racist Anti American church for 20 years. I don't know what kind of religion that is.

A celebration of leftist victim worship and self-alienation from the greater culture, in the guise of "Christianity". A rally against all things "American" and "normal".

100 103 And that church's "message" is more close to what Islam (of the "radical" kind) teaches than most mainstream Christian churches I know of.

101 My points were made just to call out the MFM for the way they present the issue. Nor was I saying it is wise to make religion a campaign issue. It is not.
Personally I don't care what Obama is - he has shown himself to be against everything this country stands for and I want him out of office.
Oh, and if Grandma farts at Thanksgiving, I am calling her on that.

102 With people like her in the RNC.... we wouldn't even need Democrats to have problems. *sigh*

103 Where did you defend Obama?

Does Barack Obama have Muslim sympathies? From a human standpoint, I would HOPE so.

Yeah? Do ya? You hope so?

That, right there, is an excuse and a defense of the pro-Muslim positions he takes. And my question is, why do his fucking work for him?

GOP candidates shouldn't be running around asserting he's a Muslim.

And conservative bloggers sure as SHIT shouldn't excuse his Muslim sympathies.

104 Russ, you see the point we're trying to convey to you? It's right there above. You keep using the pronoun we. We didn't do anything. We don't need to take ownership of every utterance made by a Republican.

Posted by: the captain's log at August 24, 2010 01:35 PM (uFokq)

 

  Yeah, you're right.  You don't need to take ownership of her statements.  Mainly because the media & the progressives are more than willing to pin them to you every chance they get.

 

  And as far as backing up statements made by someone "on our side" that are reasonable goes, I'm all for it.  All I ask is that those statements actually ARE reasonable or defensible.  When she was confronted with her tweet, all she could use to defend it was to say "Obama told the Muslim world that he's one of them at his Cairo speech".  Nevermind the fact that he NEVER SAID THOSE WORDS.  Say what you want to about his sympathies (which I believe are weighted away from America), but don't tell me that opinions are facts.  I don't like it when dems/progs piss on my head & tell me it's raining, so why should I like it when my own side does it to me as well.

 

  Look, if any of you want to annoint Kim Lehman as your new Right Wing Joan of Arc, go ahead.  It's not that different from all the simpleminded Iowans who attributed nothing but honorable motivations to Mike Huckabee in 2007/08.  Just don't come bitching to me when the whole house of cards comes tumbling the fuck down on you.

105 I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath;

And I submit to you that this is an ill-considered, poorly thought out assertion.

Do you know any atheists, Russ? Do you know any that are hostile to the religion they were brought up in?

Are they psychopaths?

106 Circular Firing Squad formed for duty sir.

107 You have Hagel fundraising for Sestak.

That move was so transparently sleazy that it's got to be a net negative for Sestak.  Plus, in PA it's "Hagel who?"  By the time you've explained who he is, the Pennsylvanian R or D has lost interest.

Bloomberg doing the same.

Yeah, nobody likes Nanny Bloomberg except New Yorkers who are even more afraid of the freakazoids they might get other than Bloomy.

Collins and Snowe staying put.

Again, meh.  At least they aren't endorsing Democrats.  They aren't money-raisers.  They might be able to help out some GOP candidates in New England, but otherwise, their presence won't bring very much money to anybody.

108 That's how Republicans fuck up. Essentially the same way as Democrats, with equal and opposite stupidity.

109 Sadly, that wing of the Iowa GOP puts forth some absolute dingbats, who wouldn't know an effective political strategy if you bashed them over the head with it.  Part of the problem is that organized politics attracts people who are highly interested but failures at real life, which means they have LOTS of free time on their hands for this stuff.  If you don't aggressively weed these sorts out, then "2+2=17" is the inevitable result.
If people believe that Obambi is a muslim, fine.  But for fuck's sake that isn't the sort of thing that party leaders should be promoting.

110 You don't need to take ownership of her statements.  Mainly because the media & the progressives are more than willing to pin them to you every chance they get.

Look, if they have to, they'll pick a commenter on a blog, that's what they do.  I'm not really worried about the perception of the RNC as being a hotbed of irresponsible radicalism with Steele at the helm.

On the other hand, it's good to point people like this out.  Often they don't have ideological interests and are just into politics because they got a polisci degree and couldn't get into law school.  What else are they going to do?

We have many better people who could be on the RNC from Iowa.  Whaddaya think, Russ?  I'd vote for you.

111 Do you get what I'm saying here, Russ?

It's one thing to say, "Hey, you can't run around saying Obama's a muslim. That's not something you can prove. It makes you look like a loon and turns off independents."

Okay. Awesome. Totally with you.

But then why start making rationalizations about how his actions, because of his upbringing, are normal and expected  ... that his Muslim sympathies are actually a credit to him?

And, in fact, completely consistent with his assertion that he's Christian.

Why?

Why go there?

There's a case to be made, circumstantially, that Obama is Muslim. Or, at least, on their side, which is a distinction without a difference, really.

So let people believe that if they do. It's not your job to debunk that idea or treat it as if it's some kind of radical, wingnutty conclusion.

112 I may be mistaken, but I thought I saw a youtube video that shows Obama claiming to be a Muslim.  Now whether it was faked or dubbed, I don't know, but i'm pretty sure that's what I recall seeing.

Anyone else?

113 109 I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath;

And I submit to you that this is an ill-considered, poorly thought out assertion.

Do you know any atheists, Russ? Do you know any that are hostile to the religion they were brought up in?

Are they psychopaths?

Posted by: Warden at August 24, 2010 01:47 PM (fE6tn)

  Not that I know from personal experience, but it seems to me like most atheists who break with Christianity & develop an intense dislike for it are doing so because of things that happened during and right after puberty.  If you were to take a child who was being raised in a Christian environment and removed them from it before they had a chance to sour on the religion, I think it would be hard for them to remember their time in the faith as an unpleasant time.  Considering that Obama left Indonesia when he was still young, I think it's reasonable to assume that he has pleasant memories about the time.

  Now, will that help pull the stick out of your ass, warden, or are we going to have to call out a Caterpillar D9 to do the job?

114 -->And as far as backing up statements made by someone "on our side" that are reasonable goes, I'm all for it. All I ask is that those statements actually ARE reasonable or defensible.

Good. Anyone who says that he is still a muslim is making a reasonable statement that neither you, nor Time, nor anyone else can refute with any great facts. You might disagree with the idea that he's still a muslim, but it is not an unreasonable position for someone to take.

-->When she was confronted with her tweet, all she could use to defend it was to say "Obama told the Muslim world that he's one of them at his Cairo speech". Nevermind the fact that he NEVER SAID THOSE WORDS.

Yes, Russ. I agree that he didn't (as I put in my comments). However, the Egyptian Foreign Minister claimed that the Indonesian Imbecile DID tell him that he's still a muslim. You can consider that a lie or take it as truth, but Lehman could have cited that statement to explain what she said (though she mis-spoke by saying, "in the speech"). She didn't do that, so YOU could have offered that defense for her, as I did. But you didn't do that, either.

Lots of people on our side make correct statements that they can't back up with the appropriate details, and it is to the rest of us to fill in the details for those who stumble on their, otherwise reasonable (again, not defending the "in the speech" part, but Lehman's general thrust) arguments.

-->Say what you want to about his sympathies (which I believe are weighted away from America), but don't tell me that opinions are facts. I don't like it when dems/progs piss on my head & tell me it's raining, so why should I like it when my own side does it to me as well.

As I said, if he prefers muslims over Christians (which every single bit of evidence any of us has seen has pointed towards) then he is, as he was born and raised a muslim, a non-practicing muslim in every sense of the phrase.

-->Look, if any of you want to annoint Kim Lehman as your new Right Wing Joan of Arc, go ahead. It's not that different from all the simpleminded Iowans who attributed nothing but honorable motivations to Mike Huckabee in 2007/08. Just don't come bitching to me when the whole house of cards comes tumbling the fuck down on you.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at August 24, 2010 01:44 PM (/MEFr)

I'm just pointing out that what Lehman said was not "2+2=17". What she said was reasonable, outside of some minor detail problems. Even her assumption that the muslim world heard his speech and got the idea that he was still one of them from it is, in fact true - though it was not as explicit as she implied.

BTW, you are aware that muslims consider him to be a muslim, right?  That says nothing about what he really "believes", but that is what they assume - and his actions and policies have not done anything to put the lie to that idea.  Going to some crypto-Christian church that is more like a mosque than anything is no great proof of his Christianity. 

It would be nice if you could present even one example where he showed a preference for Christians over muslims (anywhere in the world).  Just one.

115 117  There WAS the "my muslim faith" moment during a TV interview.  Which the MFM covered for and then buried in about 0.2 seconds.
All in all, I really don't care if he's really a Mooz, an Atheist, a true believer in the Rev. Wright's hate-America theology, or whatever.  What is important is that he is an America-hating cocksucker bent on destroying as much of this country as he can.

116 He admitted he was a muslim to George Stephanopolus. http://tinyurl.com/479ekj

117 Considering that Obama left Indonesia when he was still young, I think it's reasonable to assume that he has pleasant memories about the time.

That kind of begs the question a bit, doesn't it?

When did he stop practicing being a Muslim? You're assuming he did immediately.

And no, there's not a stick up my ass. I happen to disagree with part of your post. And if I'm a bit strident about it, then I am. But I haven't insulted you.

118 I just don't understand this need to credit Obama for holding Muslim sympathies.

If you believe that it's a point in his favor, because of his upbringing, fine. I disagree, but whatever.

But why broadcast it? Why help make his case for him?

I'm not asking bloggers to lie, per se. Just leave that part out. If we're asking our politicians to be smarter politically, then political bloggers should probably do the same, no?

119 Considering that Obama left Indonesia when he was still young, I think it's reasonable to assume that he has pleasant memories about the time.

Yes.  Post-coup Indonesia was a pretty pleasant place.  The fact is that the Indonesian Imbecile seems to act more like Suharto than an American President.  What a coincidence!

120 After all, Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler in the leadup to WW2, but to the best of my knowledge he's not known as a Nazi. Why not? Probably because he wasn't a Nazi.

If he had been a German, raised in Germany at a German school, you can bet your butt that it would have been assumed he was being pro-Hitler and he would have been tagged a "Nazi".  As it was, Chamberlain's just assumed to be retarded, which he was.

121 If it gets to the point where we NEED to lie about the man to defeat him, then we're no better than the Progressives.

Posted by: Russ from Winterset at August 24, 2010 01:27 PM (/MEFr)

And this is a big reason we regularly lose at politics. Most conservatives would rather celebrate the ethics of their tactics then win. Liberal ethics are whatever works to win.

Either the things we believe in are worth fighting for - and I don't mean just making a good debate team argument - or they are not. 

122 121 He admitted he was a muslim to George Stephanopolus.

http://tinyurl.com/479ekj

Posted by: Old grizzled gym coach at August 24, 2010 02:07 PM (QBQcg)

Not the video i'm talking about. The one I saw was him walking around in the middle of a crowd of Arabs, giving an impromptu speech, the audio is weak, but he does seem to claim that he's a Muslim in his remarks.  

I probably saved a link to it, but it may take me awhile to find it.

123 I'm not asking bloggers to lie, per se. Just leave that part out. If we're asking our politicians to be smarter politically, then political bloggers should probably do the same, no?

Posted by: Warden at August 24, 2010 02:13 PM (fE6tn)

A thousand times yes.

124 I'm not asking bloggers to lie, per se. Just leave that part out. If we're asking our politicians to be smarter politically, then political bloggers should probably do the same, no?

Posted by: Warden at August 24, 2010 02:13 PM (fE6tn)

I'm glad that Russ included his own assumption that the Indonesian Imbecile should have muslim sympathies.  At least the ball is moving in the right direction, albeit far too slowly and for the wrong reasons on the part of the moves.  You never would have heard any of these same conservatives say that during the campaign or the first year of destruction in office.  At least, now, the idea that he is sympathetic to muslims is bubbling among those who seem overly-sensitive to the muslim issue - even promoted as 'natural'.

125 The actual denomination is Church of Christ Congregational.  AKA United Church of Christ.  They believe in everything and nothing.  They don't accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God and they reject Jesus as a deity.  They believe all roads lead to Heaven.


United Church of Christ, also known as the UCC, or Unitarians Considering Christ.

126 OT of Kim Lehman but on Iowa, and taunting followed up with violence:

State Rep. Ako Abdul-Samad, D-Des Moines, who has worked to fight gang-related violence, said he doesn't have enough information to decide if the fights [outside state fairgrounds, blacks attacking white victims] were racially motivated. He said police comments that race was involved could miss other factors, such as nonracial taunting.

127 Russ,technically you are wrong.According to muslim law little Barrak became a muslim due only to the fact that his father was muslim so by that same logic a shit ton of muslims consider him  to also be muslim.
 Does Barrak consider himself to be muslim? Only he knows for sure ,but you yourself said that because of his upbringing he should have sympathy
towards this large group of people that wish to defeat us subjugate us and kill us,

128 They don't accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God and they reject Jesus as a deity.  They believe all roads lead to Heaven.

There are several "Christian" faiths that do not believe that Jesus is the son of God.  I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses fall in that category as well.

129 Obama initially campaigned for president in the primaries on the basis that his non-American childhood suited what America needs in the White House, that he had special experience lacking in his opponents. That didn't hold water against McCain, whose foreign POW experience buried Obama's childhood in Indonesia, so that particular boast was dropped.

In his Egyptian address, Obama reached out to Muslims with his special experience. But you may recall Achmydinnerjacket's Islamic rejection of what he called the inexperienced Obama's filthy open palm.

The closest records of Muslim ties to Obama are threefold.

1. His Kenyan father Barak Obama was Muslim, as was his step-father. Obama was born, raised and educated as a registered Muslim citizen of Indonesia before going to live with his white grandparents in Hawaii.

2. Libyan Qaddafi announced that Obama was indeed a Muslim, and that Qaddafi was organizing massive financial contributions for Obama's potus campaign, encouraging all Libyans to embrace Obama the Muslim.

3. Not only Obama, but his pastor Rev. Wright were former Muslims who converted to Black Liberation Theology, a queerly mutated Islamic/Christian amalgamation to enable power playing opportunists to exploit Blacks as perpetual victims with self righteous hatreds expressed overtly.

130 There are several "Christian" faiths that do not believe that Jesus is the son of God.  I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses fall in that category as well.
Posted by: Vic

You're right.

For not agreeing to deify Jesus who called himself the Son of Man, early Christian communities (older than the Roman Christians, older with ties to the original apostles, NOT Paul) were excommunicated and subsequently annihilated by the converted Roman Holy Empire monopolizer of history.

Jesus was not considered a God or member of the Holy Trinity for centuries by the Christians observing faith in his words and life's works, that we find in the gospels but they first heard by word of mouth from the apostles he sent to spread the Gospel.

Today, Western Christianity (whether Catholic or Protestant) still fails to consider well the plight of those original Christian populations STILL being annihilated. As with the Byzantine Church, so much greater than the envious Roman, the indigenous Christians of Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, and eastern Europe are being exterminated by Western Christian indifference to the Muslim genocide of Christians where Muslim's claim manifest destiny, in 'The Blob' of Islam.

131

 He was raised in a Muslim country by a Muslim stepfather, and he attended a Muslim school during his impressionable youth. I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath.

Sympathy for Muslims? I hope so as well. Affinity for Islam, that which ensnares them? Now there's the psychopath.

132 "Does Barack Obama have Muslim sympathies? From a human standpoint, I would HOPE so. He was raised in a Muslim country by a Muslim stepfather, and he attended a Muslim school during his impressionable youth. I submit to you that any person who doesn't have some sympathy for Muslims after this level of immersion in their culture is a freakin' psychopath"

Really?  What happened to the concept of familiarity breeds contempt? 

Maybe any (straight or goat-loving) guy who grew up in an Islamic country would like it, but why in God's name would a woman or a homosexual man have sympathy for that culture? 

My best friend when I was in high school was born to an American mom and a "Palestinian" father, but raised for a time in Saudi Arabia.  Although politically she's really far left and very pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel, she loathes Islam. 

133

Barry himself is to blame for most people's confusion on his religious orientation.  He has vacillated between embracing and denying his Muslim heritage and early conditioning based on political expediency.  He spends Sundays on the golf course instead of in church.  He blasts anyone who doesn't fancy sharia law as racist.  He appoints Czars and administrators that are openly hostile to Christianity and Jews, and are appeasers of violent Islam. 

But this whole bru-ha-ha over his religion just now hits me as being curiously ginned up by the white house and his supporters -- similar to the 'Birther' witch hunt where they made a big deal out of a few nutso claims that he was born in Kenya, and used that as a smoke screen to hide his entire history. 

A poll says 30% of Americans say they think he's a Muslim -- but it doesn't say whether they care, or why they think it, or whether they think it's a bad thing or good.  Yet his handlers are making it out to be some sort of huge evil conspiracy and they won't let it die.  They keep kicking up the ashes.  So -- what's he trying to hide now?   

134 138  That's easy.  When your performance at everything a Prez is supposed to be doing is as bad as Obama's, any change of subject is a blessing.

135

thats alot on internet ink for a Red on Red post ...

what happened, run out of stuff about Obama or Rangel or Reid to post about ?

136 So what.. if it's true, she's just stating it's true...

And folks, I'm one of those who believes it's true:

http://www.littleurl.net/b35c78

From his own words... note the reporter who "corrected" Him... but his first response... "Muslim faith".   Anybody want to try to convince me he's not of Muslim faith, it's not going to work, due to his own words.

Honestly, i'd have more respect for her though, if she stood by her initial comment.

137

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138 He found he had PDF to EPUB Converter little say over our choice of husbands. One by one, we got married. For the first, he threw a lavish church wedding and reception PDF to TIFF Converter dinner. His first son-in-law was not wealthy but he was gainfully employed. What more could he ask?
His second son-in-law had PDF to JPEG Converter known my sister since they were in middle school, and I was still in elementary school. I grew up thinking he was like the brother I never had. My father loved him like PDF to BMP Converter a son even though he, like son-in-law number one, was not rich.
Son-in-law number