1 Meh. The GOP establishment still has trouble wrapping its head around the concept of grassroots conservative activism, much less netroots activism. The left has always had this sort of activism, so they get it; the right, not so much.

2
How does this help me sell Factor gear?

3

The GOP wants control as much as the other fuckheads.

4 'sOK. The Tea Party understands new media just fine, and the establishment GOP will find itself increasingly irrelevant.

5 the DNC's "Macaca Moment" project (getting activists to follow Republicans around with flip-cams and catch them saying something awful).

Why does Riehl always have to be a smartass?

6 Posted by: joncelli at June 29, 2010 04:02 PM (RD7QR)

Yeah, I think they took a lot of their protest and organizing (community organizing) skills and migrated them to the online environment. Republicans/conservatives don't have as much experience with that on the practical level and don't really like it on an emotional level.

7 Smart Ass

8 I don't expect any GOP brilliance when it comes to activism, but when the New Media Director is insulting, rather than conciliatory to the very people he is supposed to be influencing, he needs to be fired.

9 Well obviously you guys can all use the Goggle.  But maybe you should just take the press releases we send out in the electron mails we transmit.

And leave the politics to us professionals, k?

10 This is one those issues that occasionally gets brought up on AoS that I really don't understand why I'm supposed to care about it.

11 I don't get it.

12 If I had a dollar for everything the "GOP establishment" doesn't get....well you know where I'm going with this.

13 I would like you to have a war with my establishment. Preferably with your hands on my thigh.

14 Meh. The GOP establishment still has trouble wrapping its head around the concept of grassroots conservative activism, much less netroots activism. The left has always had this sort of activism, so they get it; the right, not so much.

This.  If the Democrats weren't so fucking wrong on everything I would never vote for the open border country club faux conservatives currently entrenched in the Republican party.

15 I'm not trying to be snarky here. It's just that "Hey, the GOP should try to influence us" seems sort of a silly thing to say.  Frankly, I'd say this blog is more popular and effective BECAUSE it doesn't simply parrot DNC talking points, unlike most liberal blogs do (or the blogs create the talking points and the DNC/Olbermann/etc. run with it).

Of course, I could be off-base.  I'm not a blogger, I just comment at one.  Put me some knowledge here, if that's the case.

16

I continue to insist that the DNC gets new media in ways the GOP still refuses to embrace. It's intent on controlling the narrative, while the DNC is more interested in fueling constituent and blog-based activism from the Left.

His complaint kind of echoes the thesis of David Horowitz's book How to Beat the Democrats and Other Subversive Ideas.   A large part of his point was that Republicans just don't get it--they don't get how dirty the other side will be--and that we have to learn to swim in the mud like them.

17 So a lib catches someone saying (I kid you not) Macaca on video, and the MFM runs him out of office.
A conservative catches a lib saying Macaca on video and. . . nothing. We need war on the MFM.

18

For those wondering why this is important- consider this.  Most of america identifies itself as conservative (and has for quite some time, MFM notwithstanding) and yet liberals get elected to national office with regularity. 

If the GOP could figure out the new media (or hire someone who already had... say, Ace, Dan, Michelle, or even R. Stacy) then you'd see a huge shift in the partisan gap.  What the GOP claims to stand for are things almost every American supports, but they're too hide-bound to be able to get that message where it needs to be.

Considering the fact the MFM actively tries to paint conservatives as neaderthals and terrorists, you'd think the Republicans would embrace the people who are actually on their side relatively quickly...  the fact that doesn't seem to be happening is kind of worrying.

19
C'mon Ace, you know there's a huge, huge disconnect between the mandarins running the GOP and 'conservative' proles.   And guys like you, my God how are they supposed to deal with bloggers?  Are you even a member of a country club?    You actually mention boobs and drinking, instead of going to cheesy faux-lesbian way over priced 'in' clubs.

20 I don't know why the GOP is so fearful or disdainful of bloggers and activists.

Ahhh, because we want to funemploy them?  In some cases using tar and feathers?

21 >>>'m not trying to be snarky here. It's just that "Hey, the GOP should try to influence us" seems sort of a silly thing to say. Frankly, I'd say this blog is more popular and effective BECAUSE it doesn't simply parrot DNC talking points, unlike most liberal blogs do (or the blogs create the talking points and the DNC/Olbermann/etc. run with it). Occasionally access is useful. Everyone wants to feel plugged in. And if you are hearing rumors about stuff and that kind of cool thing, it can make it to a blog post, in which even more people feel sort of plugged in.

22 Republicans/conservatives don't have as much experience with that on the practical level and don't really like it on an emotional level.

It's because conservatives take stock of whether what they're doing is moral or in the interests of fair play.

Even when we get somebody who is really into nastiness and dirty tricks, he ends up repenting and finding Jesus.

There're always a bunch of Jihadists in the liberal coalition who have no moral compunctions whatsoever.

23
Preach it.

The GOP's "new media strategy" is basically 1987-era bulk direct mail repackaged as bulk direct email. They seem to regard the blogosphere as cheap postal carriers waiting to deliver their press releases / fundraising appeals. Christ, my inbox gets reloaded every day with this crap, and it reads like Nigerian spam.

24 Maybe blogs are seen as too risky, too loose-cannon, too foul-mouthed

What the fuck are you trying to say with that? I'm fucking unstable? DO I LOOK UNSTABLE!!!????

25 Whatev'. The GOP is being replaced by the highly effective Tea Party. Only when it's done, the Tea Party will just be called the GOP.

26 GOP grassroots activism = work hard, have lots of kids, buy guns -- the details will be worked out later

27

Sometimes a reader will tell us at AoS that we're "more influential than [we] know."

When you see it repeated on TV by journos and politicos, yeah, they read it, pay attention, and are influenced by it.  But...

I have to tell you, I don't think so. If we were influential at all, someone would start trying to influence us.

But you're working for free.

28 Occasionally access is useful. Everyone wants to feel plugged in. And if you are hearing rumors about stuff and that kind of cool thing, it can make it to a blog post, in which even more people feel sort of plugged in.

That's right baby, I want the special access. special access

29 My question is what are the Democrats doing that the Republicans aren't?

The GOP provides no real content to bloggers but do the Democrats? The web project Riehl is talking about doesn't strike me as that big of a deal. No one is going there besides other Democratic activists.

Look at the Etheridge thing, it's not like when conservatives have the goods we don't need the GOP to get it out.

I've unsubscribed from a lot of GOP candidate stuff for the reasons Riehl talks about...it's just "give me money", but I'm not sure what I was expecting. To be clear, this is voter/public stuff. There may well be cool stuff I'm not in on but it doesn't sound like it.

30
Christ, my inbox gets reloaded every day with this crap, and it reads like Nigerian spam.

Thankfully, the GOP hasn't started sending virus and phishing payloads in their email come-ons.  Yet.

31 Sure the GOP establishment is trying to spin you, ace.  Remember someguy?  You were punching down, goddammit!  He was in with the political consultants and knew what to do and you were punching down!

32 Tom, if nothing else, GOP could use bloggers for oppo research.

33 It's not the hardware -- it's the software that's at fault.

In this case, it's Repubs following the Washington/RNC "go along to get along" line, which consists of squishy principles with an overlay of occasional whingeing about "negative" Dems.

Well, guess what? Lies eventually become truths when the teller focuses and sticks to the Party Line. We stray off message, we lose.

We get sidetracked by trivia, wringing our hands about nothings like Weigel. We're still at the chat-room stage which, when combined with an unwillingness to stick up for our beliefs in a consistent manner.

It's the Lardass Ed Morrissey "but-on-the-other-hand/to-be-fair" approach. And it has to change. From the top. Begin with politicians who espouse conservative principles with the single-mindedness displayed by the lefties. Continue with putting strong, plain-speaking people like VDH and Thomas Sowell ahead of equivocating socialite would-be intellectuals like Jonah Goldberg.

We know the tools. We're just too intimidated by the success of Osama Obama and his Marxist thugs to stand up and say "enough!"

When you're fighting against an opponent who doesn't give a rat's ass about the rules, you learn to go dirty or go home.

34
No one is going there besides other Democratic activists.

HOWEVER, when a candidate with an R after his name says something stupid (and you know they will), the MFM/DNC is going to pounce on that site like stink on shit.  They're just getting their drones to be their press pool and line reporters for them.

35

Even with something minor like the soft corruption of cheap flattery...

Remember when I told you that you looked good in that teddy?

36

Michael Steele

*spit*

Bob "Tax Collector for the Welfare State" Dole

Read My Lips

Mission Accomplished

Groppenegger

McLame....and on and on it goes.

For some reason known but to God, ...it is the lack of 'quality' that survives the contest to gain election. Instead of the best the winners are spoiled milk.

37 I've heard the GOP is in the process of developing a new media strategy for the 21st century. It involves carrier pigeon and smoke signal technology. Should be out in 2013.

38 The GOP stills pulls the chain to flush.

39 Blame McCain. In 2004, the GOP had the 72 hour imitative and some good ground forces. Sometimes I just wonder about the GOP though. Do they care? Maybe Heritage or Cato could take the lead.

40 Remember when I told you that you looked good in that teddy?

rd,

I'm all for cheap flattery.  I'll take it where I can get it. 

41 If you send the RNC any money you get upgraded to the daily direct mail shrill appeal for more money.  It has the opposite of the intended effect.   

42
What pisses me of about the GOP:
The GOPs inability to focus on issues that matter to most people all while they fight over bullshit social issues purity.

43
the GOP itself and GOP candidates don't even bother trying to spin us or feed us something interesting to push.

Oy.  That's why I get my 2 Minutes of Hate on my own bad self every morning.  Keeps me young.

44 "...which, when combined with an unwillingness to stick up for our beliefs in a consistent manner, makes us ineffective at delivering the message."

Fixed it for me.

45 Well the GOP could throw the *ahem* notable forums, a bone or two on the side as rumors. It shows respect for the readership, which, generally speaking are politically active, hence, posting blog comments. It would expand the readership and give a sort of quasi direct outlet around the MFM spin so your activists can be ready with the facts that win the arguments. 

46 I think the left's activist and money raising bent on the internet comes not from leadership by the Democratic Party or outside, but from the fact that the rank and file tend to do that kind of thing anyway. Its a result of their ideology, not leadership or clever Democrats.

And really, what did President Obama do in the 2008 election which was all that outstanding or groundbreaking? He set up a webpage. He had a blog. He sent out tweets. And that's amazing, somehow? That's like saying someone who uses a finger to dial their phone rather than a claw hammer is some sort of visionary.

47 It would also help if they fought the Democrats like they meant it.  Their weak sister act has happened for long enough to completely convince me that the GOP fully intends to be a permanent minority party.

48
what did President Obama do in the 2008 election which was all that outstanding or groundbreaking?

Accepted illegal foreign donations?

49 I agree, DrewM.  We tend to think that the Democrats are more well-organized than they are.  They are really a many-headed hydra operating independently.  Soros has united a lot of them and they tend to work in concert when they are out of power, but they aren't quite that brilliant.

Plus, they have to lie.  That does hurt them in the long run, especially when they're in power.

50

Maybe blogs are seen as too risky, too loose-cannon, too foul-mouthed. Maybe there is a well-founded fear that any association with a blog could wind up doing a lot of damage down the road.

I don't know about "associating" but one would hope they would be available for questions.

For instance, I can imagine a world where Nikki Haley's campaign staff would have emailed you and said they were available to answer policy questions if you had them, after you...pointed out Will Folk's nutiness, so to speak.

Yeh, maybe your posts wouldn't lead to a picture of her standing next to her (mostly because you would have clung to your pudding with a death grip), but if they noticed and cared that you could be helpful, it would be nice. It was Chuck Devore, wasn't it, who responded to Gabe's posts?

51 And really, what did President Obama do in the 2008 election which was all that outstanding or groundbreaking? He set up a webpage. He had a blog. He sent out tweets.

He turned off the security on credit card donations.

52 I don't know why the GOP is so fearful or disdainful of bloggers and activists.

I do. Power and fear.

The bloggers and activists play a big part in determining finding and having items go viral. But there is a huge difference in how that happens on the left and right.

The left is top down.  DailyKOS and HuffPo can go on about stuff forever, and they do, but if the members of JournoList don't pick it up it's going nowhere. So the powers that be have no real fear as long as they keep Journolist happy. This works because most people looking for news on the left start at the top news sources and work down, most never getting to the blogger level on a regular basis.

The Right is bottom up. Things go viral without the help or influence of the powers that be. Mostly because people on the right start getting their news at the blogger level and work up. They don't read NRO or The Weekly Standard or Townhall first. They read them because bloggers linked them. None of the big right bloggers are what you called destination blogs Ace. So the powers that be on the right have no firm control over the news.

Most of the Republican establishment prefer the former model. It's predictable and can be manipulated. Even with the Left establishment having the upper hand in that scenario the Right Establishment has some control. In the latter they have none even if it generally benefits them they see the downside as greater than the upside.

53
Plus, they have to lie.  That does hurt them in the long run, especially when they're in power.

This.  Why does Breitbart have to be the one to call them out instead of Mike 'Man Of' Steele?

_{rhetorical question, btw}

54 The less involved the Country Club GOP Establishment is in conservative grassroots new media the sooner they will be replaced by the conservative grassroots candidates who are.

Just look at what Palin is doing.

55 Sometimes I just wonder about the GOP though. Do they care?

GOP fully intends to be a permanent minority party.

This flyover-state moron feels the same way.  I mean, they'll still get invited to the same cocktail parties, still hobnob with the same circles, etc.  So many of us feel like they just go through the motions to act like they care and get donations

56 "He set up a webpage. He had a blog. He sent out tweets." Yup, and a few months ago he was mumbling about how he couldn't figure out an iPhone or an XBox. Quite the techno whiz kid.

57 "Riehl's War" sounds like a boring WW2 prison camp movie starring James Garner.  I'll pass.

58 I continue to insist that the DNC gets new media in ways the GOP still refuses to embrace. It's intent on controlling the narrative, while the DNC is more interested in fueling constituent and blog-based activism from the Left.

It's too bad the GOP didn't have some sort of grassroots activist movement that was pushing for smaller government and lower taxes that they could appeal to and/or use.

59

My question is what are the Democrats doing that the Republicans aren't?

I think it would be wrong to assume they communicate and organize like they're all on a journolist type thing.  Rememember the Bush-Gore voting fiasco in Florida?  I marvelled at how the Democrats mobilized so quickly.  At all levels, they all seemed to know how to get going on things, lawyers, reporters, low level pols, and voters.  Certainly, they didn't have time to organize and communicate some kind of big plan.  It was just in their nature to flock and work for The Group.  I don't think conservatives have that some group consciousness.  If you think about it, it follows; we're into independence.

60 >>> It was Chuck Devore, wasn't it, who responded to Gabe's posts? Yeah, that guy was Johnny On The Spot. In DeVore's case, though, he was waging an explicitly insurgent candidacy and so he likely perceived the need for that kind of thing.

61 Maybe blogs are seen as too risky, too loose-cannon, too foul-mouthed

What the fuck are you trying to say with that? I'm fucking unstable? DO I LOOK UNSTABLE!!!????

Posted by: MikeTheMoose

 

At this time I would like to introduce our new blog coodinators for our campaigns, Miss Amanada Marotte and Dr. Amy Bishop! Let's bring these little ladies out here!

62

Sometimes a reader will tell us at AoS that we're "more influential than [we] know."

I have to tell you, I don't think so. If we were influential at all, someone would start trying to influence us.

Ace, I send people here all the time. I have no idea who actually heeds my directions, but i know at least two people I sent here read your stuff and discussed it with me.

When you start getting threads with 500 to 700 comments, it generally means to me that a lot of people are reading something that may be influencing them one way or the other. I know you were probably talking influencing policy, but policy gets changed sometimes because of public pressure.

I do think the GOP hasn't gotten their heads out of their ass when it comes to new media, and in working to put good information out to bloggers who are or may be influential, especially conservative bloggers.

Of course, I could be wrong.

63 Perhaps if conservatives were to be covered in the WaPo by an objective reporter.  Nah, never happen...

64 I wonder if the Amnesty thing spooked them -- not that they were connected with us before that, but maybe that told them we are not to be trusted. But the blogs only reflected grassroots opinion -- we didn't create that. We were the guys flashing the Early Warning distress signals over that, which, you know, they ignored.

65 The GOP hates atheists?

66

It's common knowledge that the GOP just doesn't get it, in cyberspace, meatspace, or anywhere else. That's why we're here, discussing issues we should be hearing and reading them discuss.

I visit the RNC website daily and sometimes comment there. Believe me, they'd be better off if they just came here. What passes for their opinions could fill a matchbook. No new ideas, no alternatives, just donate, donate, donate. What few commenters there are at their site give them a ration of shit for being such political pussies, even worse than I do.

Ace, make this place private, give us all passwords, and sell us as a think tank.

Oh, and pay us, not just in Valu-Rite or hobo leftovers either.

 

67

Amen!  It's about time Ace got back in the pulpit! 

68 I agree with the GOP doesn't understand activism line.  They are currently relying on the tea party for that stuff.

69

"Here's the dirty little secret..."

I think it's also the fundamental difference between D's and R's; collectivism vs. individualism. I beleve the lefty blogs seek out, perhaps even need to organize as a hive.

Over here on the right, we pretty do our own thing. Sure we can work together, but at sunset we head off towards home in our seperate directions. 

70 I have told people this: every day I conduct an informal poll of 5,000 conservatives on their take on the issues. Yeah, I get there's no rigor in that, and it's self-selecting, and all, but still, it IS a focus-group of sorts, isn't it? It's data.

71

When you start getting threads with 500 to 700 comments, it generally means to me that a lot of people are reading something that may be influencing them one way or the other

 

Or we're Morons who won't shut up. I'm referring to everyone besides myself of course.

 

This concludes the team building exercise for the day.

72

Here's the dirty little secret of conservative blogging, at least as it appears to me: I'm sure the left is convinced we're all plugged in to the GOP and getting our Two Minute Hate of the Day from GOP central, and so on, and etc.

The actual truth is more scandalous. By and large (I can only speak for myself) the GOP itself and GOP candidates don't even bother trying to spin us or feed us something interesting to push.

The left thinks we are like that, because that is how they work. They get their marching orders, and they follow them. Since the Left lives by projection, that means that to them we do the same thing, only x10.

Meanwhile conservatives and libertarians tend to be independent  thinkers - otherwise they'd be drinking the state media koolaide too. So they aren't good at giving orders to each other or taking them. 

Interestingly, this independent streak is why we on the right have fresher ideas and better debates, and function much more poorly as an effective political organization.

73 course it doesn't help that the maine sisters, brown et al., vote with the dems on a totally pathetic and useless fin reg bill.

74

When you start getting threads with 500 to 700 comments, it generally means to me that a lot of people are reading something that may be influencing them one way or the other

or you have 5 to 7 people who won't shut up.

I didn't know you were in the pocket for Big McCain.

What was the payoff? did you get to cop a feel with meghan?

75

I signed up as a "convention blogger" in 2008 and got hit with idiot news releases -- as if I were some podunk newspaper columnist just dying for something GOP-related to write about.

So, from that limited perspective and at that point in time, it was apparent to me that the GOP's best and brightest were not leading the way.

Oh, and when I applied for convention credentials, they turned me down. Probably because someone looked at my posts and found them not 100 percent rah-rah like the PR-trained people at the party wanted.

As if anyone reads crap like that.

76

course it doesn't help that the maine sisters, brown et al., vote with the dems on a totally pathetic and useless fin reg bill.

Brown said he is voting no.

77 I'm not trying to be snarky here. It's just that "Hey, the GOP should try to influence us" seems sort of a silly thing to say. Posted by: TomInKorea

No, you're missing the point entirely. It's not a matter of shaping the message!

The GOP's efforts so far have been a messy affair. New media is powerful because it can be a low-cost, high impact vehicle to raise funds, inform and energize average conservatives, and, mostly importantly, create dynamic interaction between voters, pols, and staffers. See? Between voters and pols, not top down command and control.

The GOP is not leveraging this media with any effectiveness. It's about getting people energized, focused, and able to to battle with the Left, not about html versions of press releases.

78

In DeVore's case, though, he was waging an explicitly insurgent candidacy and so he likely perceived the need for that kind of thing.

Sure wish it wasn't seen as a desparate measure only for desparate times.

RS McCain wrote something, maybe it cross-posted at HA?? about similar cluelessness, I think specifically about the Allen campaign handled--mishandled the macaca incident. I'll go look for it...

79 Let's be honost folks. A Candidate couldn't attach their name to a site like this unless they were running for the Home Owners Association Presidency of a East St.Louis project.

80 I think that the anger here is a bit misplaced. If you look at the people the leftoshere supports, well they are basically creatures of the leftoshphere and not the Dem establishment. Obama, Sherrod Brown, Tester, that fruit loop in CT that they ran against Lieberman, all products of the leftosphere. They often show as much disdain for the old timey Dem leadership as they do for Republicans. Hillary got clobbered by Kos and the like last election and there is no love for Pelosi or Reid. Bare tolerance sometimes but no love. I think this is a lot more about incumbents vs newbies than any sort of organized black listing of blogs. It's not too surprising that candidates on the right who embrace the new media, most notably Palin, are adored by the rightosphere and visa versa. Palin needs the blogs, this is here base. Boehner doesn't.

81 >>>Meanwhile conservatives and libertarians tend to be independent thinkers - otherwise they'd be drinking the state media koolaide too. So they aren't good at giving orders to each other or taking them. I would not mind some rumors here and there. Hell, even if I couldn't publish them -- everyone likes rumors! They could make up rumors for us. Just invent them. To make us feel vaguely on the team. We wouldn't know.

82 John Edwards knew how to use a good blogger. Very effective.

83

I think it would be wrong to assume they communicate and organize like they're all on a journolist type thing. 

One word: Gravitas.

84 I'm all for cheap flattery.  I'll take it where I can get it. 

Posted by: mpfs at June 29, 2010 04:23

I'll give it where it's taken!

85 Actual conservatives are making the fairly weakly supported assumption that the Dead Elephant Party is on the side of transformative conservatism, and some ultimate victory in said principles. I am rather disconcerted to see people who scour the news everyday for every little legal and social nuance resulting from the often covert activities of the DC swamp still don't realize that the guys at the top of the GOP are not on the side of conservatism(except using briefly to campaign on to conserve their own power). Their expressed hatred for those who are actively attempting to advance the cause of Constitutional conservatism should be a relatively obvious clue everyone seems to be missing.

86

course it doesn't help that the maine sisters, brown et al., vote with the dems on a totally pathetic and useless fin reg bill.

Brown said he is voting no.

Nope, he is back to yes.  They are going to steal money from tarp instead of a bank tax, but it is stupid because tarp has become an endless slush fund.

87
They are currently relying on the tea party for that stuff.

And they will turn on us in a heartbeat when it suits them.

88 >>>Let's be honost folks. A Candidate couldn't attach their name to a site like this unless they were running for the Home Owners Association Presidency of a East St.Louis project. Sort of, but Roger Simon claimed, I think in an article that appeared in an MFM article (or Weekly Standard-- close enough), that Fred Thompson read this blog. Now, I don't know if that's true, but that's beside the point. The point I'm making is that Fred Thompson wasn't questioned about it or anything, like "How dare you read such a potty-mouthed racist wingnut site."

89

The RNC is inept. They only win elections when Democrats screw up. That is there election plan.

 

Michael Steele tries, but it isn't enough. We don't need to become the democrats with their MTV type out reach, but they do need to take better advantage of conservative blogs.

I hear Mike Huckabee is jonsing for the HQ's endorsement

90 Posted by: Dang Straights at June 29, 2010 04:20 PM (fx8sm)

Yeah but they are going to run that stuff anyway. It doesn't add to the exposure, just gets their own, hardcore types involved.

Anything really good bloggers/MFM outlets are going to want to put on their own site.

Look at it this way...if a lurker here at the HQ gets the greatest Democratic flub in history on their cellphone camera, it will be up an running here within a matter of hours and from there it makes it out.

I know Riehl and Ace have more general complaints but that particular one strikes me as odd.

91

Ace @92.

That's because he wasn't a front runner and it was the primaries. If McCain had put out word he loves AoS, HA, etc. The MFM would pounce on everything ever said at those websites with Charles Johnson like motivations.

 

 

92

It is strange that the RNC and conservatives organizations and pols wouldn't use the resource that's in place, ready to go.  More and more people get their news off the net and their opinion from bloggers. 

Maybe they're too focused on trying to get the message to the legacy media, control their message.  Since they're not cooperating, they should start using this other giant resource.

93 I don't know the reason.

Because the Moron Horde loathes the GOP too?  And it's a bit mutual? 

Look, you don't flatter the chick you know you can bang.  You flatter the one you think you need to woo.  The GOP appears to view the readers/bloggers of conservative sites as being Sure Thing votes.  Why spend the time/money on us? 

94 Well, I also let it slip several times that I was talking to McCain's Goldfarb and Hynes during the campaign and no one got on McCain about it.

95
I'll tell you the problem. Two words.

Mitch fucking McConnell.

Name one thing this cocksucker has done that indicates he has the slightest interest in becoming the majority leader in the Senate.

The only thing McConnell cares about is his own ass and lining his pockets. He doesn't give a shit about the country or the party.

96 Let's be honost folks. A Candidate couldn't attach their name to a site like this unless they were running for the Home Owners Association Presidency of a East St.Louis project.

Posted by: Ben

 

Dear Mr. Spades

It has come to our attention that you have sought to relate your internet writing project (blog) to this campaign. We feel that we cannot allow the tenor, language and hobo carnage on your 'blog' to demean the gracious, peaceful style of living that one naturally feels when referring to this community.

We ask that you immediately cease and desist all attempts at linking your 'blog' with this campaign.

97

I guess my point was that any association a candidate had with this blog, or others, would have to be behind the scenes. It couldn't be an out in the open relationship.

We all know it is acceptable for Dems to associate with Kos, but we all know that door doesn't swing both ways.  The Republican candidate would have to distance himself(or herself) from you as soon as someone in the media reads and reposts the David Carridine thread and comments that followed.

 

If your point is that the GOP needs to do better outreach with con bloggers, then year that seems about right.

 

 

 

p.s. i am not comparing you to Kos, but it is the only left wing website i really know.

98
If it weren't for the existence of the democrats, most of the establishment GOP would be my enemy.

The limited government/tea party types are making great headway into the GOP.  This is a good thing.

I would love to have the establishment GOP on top of driving-home the limited government message, but the sad fact is that there aren't enough among the leadership who believe in that message.

It's better for us all if they keep their mouths shut.

99

Now, I don't know if that's true, but that's beside the point.

It's true.  I had a short conversation with "Fred" in comments one time.  It was about conservatives being a minority in the Republican party.  There are certain things about the way a person communicates, you can tell when it's them. 

Huckabee was in comments in Gabe's Huckabee thread.  Being a shitheel.

100 The problem is that creating something like this requires someone to "own it".  The Left doesn't really care who owns the message.  The Left already has it's own ownership equity with Blue State Digital, Actblue, etc.  Somebody owns these assets.  The idea sites piggy back of their bandwidth.

As far as I know, nobody on the right has effectively constructed this bandwidth to provide an immediate source for GOP to tap.

Beyond that, the DNC is begging for GOP voters to go record their favorite GOP candidate saying racist things like "stop spending" and "government isn't the solution" and submit the videos.  In fact, I think I'll start doing that right now.

101

Ace, what is the ideal relationship you want to have with the GOP, if any?

 

e-mail exchanges? Inside information? access for interviews? all expenses paid trip to a LA bondage club?

102

All of you guys need to buy the Horowitz book I mentioned, How to Beat the Democrats and Other Subversive Ideas. 

103
Is it too much to ask for these out-of-touch lazy asses in Washington to read blogs such as AoS just to keep their fingers on the pulse of the base?

You know how the Republican establishment finds out what the average American voter is thinking? They read the fucking newspaper and watch Katie fucking Couric, that's how. And they lap up every word of it.

104 Name one thing this cocksucker has done that indicates he has the slightest interest in becoming the majority leader in the Senate.

It's time served.  It's the current rules.  If the current rules are ineffective, and/or rigged(They are), then lets work on changing them.

It's the long, long war though.

105 The conservative new media's relationship with the GOP Establishment is a lot like Reagan's relationship with what was then the GOP Establishment, as it should be.

106
it reads like Nigerian spam.

Dear Friend,
I am stuck here in the desert land known as Arizona. It is a wild and dangerous place for a true conservative like me. I have access to literally billions of dollars back in my D.C. homeland. But I need your help to get there. Please send me $86 as soon as possible to help me escape this hellhole. When I get back to my homeland I will richly reward you.
Your Conservative Friend,
John McCain

107 This blog has to be read by a lot of politicians... I would bet good money.  I mean, you talk about wanting to be plugged in, but they're the ones completely out of touch... If they're not reading this blog, they should be.

This blog puts into words what the other big conservative blogs don't.

108 You know what pisses me off. Getting a letter from the RNC to renew my membership and it's marked "Past Due" on the envelope.
I just stuff all the crap in the return envelope and make them pay the postage.

109

If McCain had put out word he loves AoS, HA, etc. The MFM would pounce on everything ever said at those websites with Charles Johnson like motivations.

Methinks our reputation precedes us. But just like the MFM, they'd concentrate only on the language and hobo marinade recipes and ignore the in-depth, mental Wheaties posts where we can really get down to business exploring issues and coming up with solutions, those kinds of 700 comment posts.

110 I do agree the GOP is missing the boat, especially if ATC is right in that they think we are sure votes, because just look at the number of posts and probably alot of donations that Scott Brown got here.  Yes, a unique situation, but if the GOP wanted to push certain memes or candidates they could clean up with a nice word or tip to a right blogger.  Especially in close or possible upset races.

111

I'll tell you the problem. Two words.

Mitch fucking McConnell.

Name one thing this cocksucker has done that indicates he has the slightest interest in becoming the majority leader in the Senate.

Compared to the days of Bob Michel and Howard Baker, Mitch McConnell is a downright dynamo. It has been much worse.

112
We always come back to square one, don't we?

We're always worrying about what we do in case the media can use it against it. I'm sick of this of this horseshit hostage situation.

Everyone sit down because I have some shocking news for y'all: We are the ones holding the guns to our heads.

113

This blog puts into words what the other big conservative blogs don't.

Catch-22, it's kind of a guilty pleasure for many, I bet.  They all read it.  Ace says things they can't afford to say.  He's saying the things they'd like to say if they could.

114 I have told people this: every day I conduct an informal poll of 5,000 conservatives on their take on the issues.

Yeah, I get there's no rigor in that, and it's self-selecting, and all, but still, it IS a focus-group of sorts, isn't it?

It's data.

Plus, as a general rule. We actually make a concerted effort to think about the big issues and offer contributions in perspective from unique conservative viewpoints. We *are* the conservatives who

A. Care about the issues.
B. Aren't part of the "political class"

Given the desire and difficulty in tracking down and collaring that animal, you'd think the GOP would be camped out in the few places where we herd up to discuss issues.

_{(I think I saw that bush move)}

115

Great. I found the post by Stacy McCain, it's on topic...and HA's Greenroom won't work at all for me. In the hope that they get it fixed soon, here's the link.

Cached version that you can actually read now.

 

 

116 _{(I think I saw that bush move)}

Posted by: MikeTheMoose

 

Sexist!

117
Compared to the days of Bob Michel and Howard Baker...

You have a point, ol chum. Michel was minority leader for, what, 10 15 20 years? Pathetic.

118

RS McCain:

Wadhams’ personal political playbook, his own habitual way of running campaigns, had served him well in his ascent through the ranks of GOP operatives. Yet when the “macaca” controversy hit, nothing in Wadhams’ experience prepared him to cope with this unprecedented crisis. And because of the “bubble,” myself and others who saw with absolute clarity what the Allen campaign was doing wrong were unable to get the ear of anyone who might be able to remedy the problem.

Eventually, Wadhams hired the brilliant blogger Jon Henke to help the Allen campaign deal with online "media, but by then it was entirely too late. Besides, although left-wing bloggers played a key role in pushing “macaca” into the MSM, once the Post picked it up and ran with it, Wadhams was dealing with a traditional P.R. problem, not New "Media per se.

119 As far as "finger on the pulse" stuff, Scott Brown (or his staff) keeps a pretty active FB account. I've dropped many a harsh criticism on him and never been banned/attacked by loyalists/etc. Many posts that had their germ at places like here, Althouse, etc. have ended up on his page.

120

That was too much work. Somebody better read the damn link since it took me 20 minutes to get it.

I'm hereby excused from linking anything for at least 3 days. Quoting without attribution, here I come!

121
You know what else Scott Brown does, to his enormous credit?

He calls into the local talkie shows at least once a week. Scott explains his votes and then takes calls from angry listeners.

122 83 Let's be honost folks. A Candidate couldn't attach their name to a site like this unless they were running for the Home Owners Association Presidency of a East St.Louis project. Posted by: Ben at June 29, 2010 04:37 PM (wuv1c) What the fuck? Why would you fuckin' say that? (You get the joke, right?)

123 Mama AJ: That is a great link at 119.

That is very true.  That even extends to my interactions with GOPers that are out of government.  They like a perimeter around them.  Everything has to go through that perimeter.  Well, sometimes the data I have is too important to be vetted by your perimeter so I have to speak in tongues.

124

So you're saying the GOP is full of pussies who are afraid to let go of their comfortable old ways?

Jesus!  Alert the Media!!

 

 

oh.

uh... nevermind I guess....

125 The extent to which new media becomes effective in the Republican party is going to be determined by the rate at which the old guys get out and young guys take their place. I remember about 15 years ago trying to explain the Internet to my grandfather, who was in his 90s. He just couldn't wrap his head around it, and I think that we have a similar situation with the old guys in the party now. Rather than seeing it as an opportunity for community building, they see it as a threat to their position.

I don't think the old guys are going to change in this regard. They can only retire and move on, or be pushed out. Hopefully, everyone will just stop paying attention to them, and will start paying attention to the younger guys who get it. Guys like Breitbart and, yes, Ace. Women like Michelle Malkin and Allahpundit (I keed, I keed).

The best thing we can do is to do our best to propagate the stuff that comes our way. The Acorn videos, the fake TNG memos, etc. Maybe if we're lucky, we can convince the old guys to put the same kind of trust in us that they claim to have in "the American people" when they make speeches, and simply get out of out way and let us do our thing.

126

... I don't know. This is one of the top ten biggest conservative blogs; I guess I just would think someone would want to spin me or something.

You just nailed it Ace...we are too friggin genius-like to be spun by some dip-shit political hack. They don't bother. Tell a lib your doing something for the children or your saving a shrub and they are puddy in your hand, conservatives are much more skeptical and discerning.

 

 

127 Some thoughts
1. This seems to be two issues, (a) why doesn't the RNC get new media, and (b) why doesn't the RNC try to influence AoS

2. The left is younger, and has a greater proportion of media and academic types. They naturally communicate with the new media. Younger people and reporters spend a lot of time networking and investing time in new people, events, etc.

3. Blogging from 1-4pm and having and inbox of 90,000 items and you wonder why no one contacts you. Networking is a two way deal -- the more contacts you make, the more likely they are to contact you.

4. The left has always been better at grass roots stuff. Look at Mao's purges or Stalin's local party organizers -- their ideology appeals to the young and uninformed and motivates them to activism.

5. The right will never equal the macaca attacks since the RNC does not have a "legitimate" media like the Washington Post to push this stuff to the disinterested Independents. We could find video of th VP calling a citizen an a**hole and no one would care.

128

Sometimes a reader will tell us at AoS that we're "more influential than [we] know." 

I think that is generally true, at least as a statement about conservative bloggers as a whole.  Note the tea party movement, which I am convinced feeds on conservative radio and blogging.  I know that's how I got caught up in it.

I have to tell you, I don't think so. If we were influential at all, someone would start trying to influence us.

You are also more influential than they know, and that, in a nutshell, is the problem with the establishment GOP.

129 I know why Dems control new media -- it's because they control old media. 

Consider scenario A:  Kos says something controversial-ish.  His commenters jump in and amp it up to eleven, because that's what leftists do.  Everyone on the comment boards is ok with this, because that's what they all think anyway, and the widest exposure it ever gets is a "check out what the Kostards are saying" post on blogs like this one.

Then consider scenario B: Ace posts something controversial-ish.  Lots of his commenters here jump in and amp it up to eleven, because, well... R*n Pa*l winning CPAC straw polls comes to mind.  Anyway, even though the more levelheaded jump on the more excitable and tell them to chill, the, umm, "passionate" comments get broadcast all over the MSM as "the authentic voice of conservatism."

If any GOP politician reached out to Ace of Spades, in other words, he'd own "morons," "integrity," "conscious," hunchbacks, sex-for-money skankathons and all the rest.  And they'd be the face of the Republican party.

Can't say as though I blame the GOP leadership on this one, y'all.

130

Pretentious we're not. We call a spade a fuckin' shovel and there are few on the right that want to consider themselves bourguease average. Wouldn't be prudent. Blue bloods, country clubs, and what not.

Yeah, it's an image thang.

131 We always come back to square one, don't we?

We're always worrying about what we do in case the media can use it against it. I'm sick of this of this horseshit hostage situation.

Everyone sit down because I have some shocking news for y'all: We are the ones holding the guns to our heads.

Indeed. What ever happened to Operation Pipewrench, anyway?

132 Look at how key leaders in the GOP use Twitter and Facebook.  The flow of information is one-way, and the followers/friends are on the receiving end. I have never received a reply to a tweet I've sent to a GOP twitterer.  Ever.  It's like the whatever staffer they have running the Twitter account has been given explicit instructions to send information out and ignore any feedback received.  The only interaction between Republicans on Twitter and their followers is with candidates for office.  Tim Burns (running for Murtha's old seat) regularly replies to supporters.  Pam Gorman running for AZ-03) will, too.  But send a Tweet to someone like, say, Eric Cantor, Darrell Issa or Mike Pence.  Try Jim DeMint or Jeff Sessions.  Silence.

New media--blogs and social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook--are tools that the leadership could use to connect directly to donors and voters alike while bypassing the MFM to communicate with us. 

Sarah Palin gets it.  Why can't the rest of'em?

133 You just nailed it Ace...we are too friggin genius-like to be spun by some dip-shit political hack. They don't bother. Tell a lib your doing something for the children or your saving a shrub and they are puddy in your hand, conservatives are much more skeptical and discerning.

Not buying it (assuming you were serious). It's just as easy to whip conservatives into a frenzy by telling them you're doing something to save the unborn babies.

134 The climbers are taking advantage of the opportunities the internet offers. The GOP Establishment think that since they are already established then they have no need to, and this is how they will be supplanted by the climbers. The GOP Establishment are the dinosaurs glancing up at that bright comet flashing in the sky and thinking nothing of it.

135

It's like the whatever staffer they have running the Twitter account has been given explicit instructions to send information out and ignore any feedback received.  The only interaction between Republicans on Twitter and their followers is with candidates for office.

It's not *like* that. It IS just that.

Sarah Palin gets it.  Why can't the rest of'em?

Sarah Palin isn't a sitting politician, at least not at present. DeMint, Sessions, and other heroes of ours are busy trying to wade through thousands of pages of crappy Obamunist legislation and grill a bolshevik bulldyke who sadly will be our next Supreme Court Justice. We can suggest the seated people have an official blogger who replies to people, but that's about it.

 

136

Mama AJ: That is a great link at 119.

Well all right then.

137 The climbers are taking advantage of the opportunities the internet offers. The GOP Establishment think that since they are already established then they have no need to, and this is how they will be supplanted by the climbers. The GOP Establishment are the dinosaurs glancing up at that bright comet flashing in the sky and thinking nothing of it.

This is a much shorter and more succint way of putting what I was trying to say at #130.

138 126 Yup. If I can't have a guy who agrees with me 100% of the time, I'll happily accept a guy who is accountable for his actions.

139

Indeed. What ever happened to Operation Pipewrench, anyway?

See "Weigel, D" and "Breitbart, $100,000".

140 See "Weigel, D" and "Breitbart, $100,000".

Meh. I mean, it's okay, but I had envisioned something a lot dirtier and more encompassing.

141

Ace,

Okay, I'm going to be a little blunt.  You know I like your blog and that I've donated money to it.  But I can tell you that one reason you aren't attempted to be "influenced" more is that your blog interface sucks.  There's no threading, it's completely linear in its format, the linking capabilities are primitive at best, it doesn't even work correctly with all of the common browsers.  Just based on outward appearances, I'd have second thoughts about wanting to use your blog as a showcase for conservatism too.

142 Sarah will ruin the country using the same tactics that I did (fear mongering, lying, God invoking, etc)

143

Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night at June 29, 2010 05:06 PM (Ks4nX)

Palin also had a conference call with Ed Morissey, Tammy Bruce, and some other bloggers to discuss the settlement of the last frivolous ethics charge and her new LDF a few days ago.

144 I agree with chemjeff. Try copying LGF's site. Ajax, etc.

145 AoSHQ, the Tea Partiers Conservative Blog.

146

See "Weigel, D" and "Breitbart, $100,000".

Also, see: Etheridge, Boob.

Stick a camera in their face and hold them accountable.

147 @148

Quiet, you are ruining my massage!

148 Well I would not suggest copying LGF.  I wouldn't want the upding/downding thing, primarily.  And copying anything from LGF is just...well, repulsive.  But c'mon, can't we move into a blog format that is somewhere close to circa 2005?

149 MEDIBOT HAVE NO TROUBLE INTERFACING WITH FEEBLE TECHNOLOGY!

150 Ajax is cool. No scrolling reloading etc. Comments just show up. Ill help you ace. A troll in the chicken coop.

151 My GOP congressman had a hip young guy who tried to manage us local bloggers and though he was pretty  cool about it, I could tell he was frustrated that we didn't see his way on what the Real Issues were. We'd all go off on whatever caught our fancy despite helpful hints here and there.  Conference calls were a bore.  Where our interests coincided (budget, war etc) it was okay but then we didn't need an "help" did we? 

As for the GOP rank and file, yes they cringe at the very word "blogger" and think it's just gotta be bad. One old guy who was otherwise very computer-hip told me it was because bloggers are anonymous!!1!  We don't know <i>who they are!</i>  Others assured me that <i>you can't believe what you read on the Internet!</i>   Like, what do you read, then, and if it's got an online version does that mean it's not credible?   And who cares about anonymity, either, if the argument is sound and well sourced?   Much as I love some of these old characters I have to think they really, really want to be in control of the debate.

 I pretty much gave up my blog when I realized the only readers were local lefty bloggers and other self-assigned minders.  I drove some stories in the state and got some national links, but got no props from the party here.

152

Just based on outward appearances, I'd have second thoughts about wanting to use your blog as a showcase for conservatism too.

So...you think that better appearing/working blogs are feeling the GOP love?

153 "like the soft corruption of cheap flattery"

Oh!  Foreplay.

154 kool

155 "The best thing we can do is to do our best to propagate the stuff that comes our way."

No, the best thing we can do is to take over the party, one precinct at a time.

156 Speaking of Palin, you know who this benefits?  

Not Mitt Romney.

157 Please do the country and the world a favor and run Palin in the next election.

158 @141 We can suggest the seated people have an official blogger who replies to people, but that's about it.

Even that would be a sea change improvement. 

159 ace: "The point I'm making is that Fred Thompson wasn't questioned about it or anything, like 'How dare you read such a potty-mouthed racist wingnut site.'"

Had he been vocal about it - about the morons' colorful take on things - then his political enemies, aka the MFM, would've spun the macaca out of it. Fair or not, politicians and their campaigns must tread lightly on blogger endorsements, especially the Right due to Liberal hypocrisy, lest a legitimate argument devolve into an illegitimate and coordinated attack based on third-party comments and associations (like me).

That's not to say I don't want you to get your ego stroked by operatives or that they shouldn't peruse yours and the cobloggers' and contributors' commentary because you do provide grassroots opinion some of which is exceedingly good. Conservative autonomy dictates that its adherents, by default, really aren't that taken in by the cooing of hacks. To be ethical disclose that you are being wooed, but you don't have to name names. I think you and most of the dextrosphere have earned the bona fides of trust for valid, independent thought.

Which is why I'm here. This is a fantastic collection of conservative thinkers who churn out great content in, often, blunt terms. That is valuable. Everything is challenged and thoughts unhindered by pretty much anything. Morons take a bow.

So, Ace, the blog's contributions are to thought first, politics second. IMO. If the Fred Thompsons of the world visit and get ideas, regardless of their reciprocation of direct communication, then you win. Not money or prestige or power mind you (and who needs such trivialities?), but the satisfaction of molding those who would capitalize and get themselves money or prestige or power. See? That's a silver lining.

Seriously, I wish there was a way for the "establishment" to reward you better for your yeoman's work; the thing is, the establishment is becoming less revered. Perhaps getting too close to them doesn't actually serve your best interest? As to the bigger narrative of the GOP and New Media, it's a bottom-up phenomenon. Independent thinkers who are generally mainstream, center-right simultaneously espouse their views and collectively need be adopted by the GOP rather than imposed from the party down. That's just the way it is on the Right. The Left loves "central planning," the Right less so, and Conservatives not at all.

And thanks for wading through that bit of meandering stream of conscience. I just wanted to say I love this blog like a Viking but never could find the right words. I guess I still haven't.

160

You just nailed it Ace...we are too friggin genius-like to be spun by some dip-shit political hack. They don't bother. Tell a lib your doing something for the children or your saving a shrub and they are puddy in your hand, conservatives are much more skeptical and discerning.

You misspelled 'putty.'

161

Other than arguing on blogs (occasionally in person) and pulling the lever for Republican candidates (sometimes with a clothespin firmly attatched to my nose), I'm not really politically active in the sense that I spend time volunteering, donating, etc.

That said, I've lost track of how many times I've heard people say that they contacted their local GOP representatives offering to volunteer for "grassroots" type stuff, but never even had their calls returned much less had their offer to help accepted.

I think they've just become too entrenched in a culture of professional PR/campaign types for whom "controlling the message" (and perhaps messenger) is a top concern.

Has anyone ever bought a car from a dealer and not had the salesman try to get you to send some potential customers his way, saying he'd rather let their professional advertisers do the talking instead of his current customers?

162

Sarah Palin has linked Hot Air posts (Allahpundit) from her Facebook page, and a couple of the HA commenters who got together and started the Conservatives4Palin site were supposedly hired onto Palin's staff.

That's pretty cool, right there.

Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night at June 29, 2010 05:06 PM

And why wouldn't she?

One of HA's unsavory features -- along with Ed "Pillsbury Doughboy" Morrissey and the anonymous, foppish Allahpundit -- is the absolutely uncritical adoration of Palin. She could tank up on Valu-Rite, drive her minivan through a crowd of elderly churchgoers and the HA comments would be filled with "SARAHCUUUUDA!" and "you go, girl!" and similar mindless expressions of lust  love.

If she ever runs for public office again, protestations that she is more qualified experience-wise than Osama Obama (or Kagan) won't cut it. We have to be better than that, prove that we are not only not Democrats/Marxists but are also able to actually improve the nation, fix things that need fixing.

Oprah has a shitload of followers on Facebook, too. You gonna vote for her if she runs for anything?

A lack of reasoned criticism from people who might support her is hurting Palin's chances for the future. And her supporters aren't helping by viciously attacking anyone who dares question her resume or policies.

163

There are some guys in the GOP who are much more forward-leaning on this stuff but it appears that the party just ignores them, in the main.

FTW!

164

TomInKorea asks why we should care about this. The ideas that come through here don't stop here; they work their way into the populace around the MFM.  Tom I don't know you from Adam but I'd guess you are influencer.  Do people think you are funny, honest, informed?  Do they value your opinion?  Do you ever take some idea or joke from here or other right blogs and work it into a conversation in an apolitical setting?  That's how you bring swing voters over, the national political gestalt. 

165 Accepted illegal foreign donations?

Well yeah, other than that.

166 peter roskam gets it. embraces new media. he ought to be rising in the republican ranks.

167 160 160 160 that is some funny shit right there.

168

@16: "His complaint kind of echoes the thesis of David Horowitz's book How to Beat the Democrats and Other Subversive Ideas.   A large part of his point was that Republicans just don't get it--they don't get how dirty the other side will be--and that we have to learn to swim in the mud like them."

Oh, they get it, they just don't want to dirty their hands.  For the last three decades at least, talk to any person of status within the GOP and you'll get the same response:

"Tut-tut, my good man. We mustn't stoop to their level.  Moral high ground and all that, my dear fellow.  Our arguments resound with trust and must, of needs, carry the day on their own merit.  Now run along and speak no more of this.  We must comport ourselves like serious, civilized men. Yes, yes, even though it mean the death of the Republic, we must not, we cannot, nay, we shall not ever tarnish our politesse.  There's a good chap.  I say, mightn't you consider donating some more money to our worthy and noble cause?" 

When the nation falls, the GOP will have nearly as much to answer for as their Communist counterparts.

169

@17: "We need war on the MFM."

War means fightin', and fightin' means killin'.

170

@22: "It's because conservatives take stock of whether what they're doing is moral or in the interests of fair play.

Even when we get somebody who is really into nastiness and dirty tricks, he ends up repenting and finding Jesus.

There're always a bunch of Jihadists in the liberal coalition who have no moral compunctions whatsoever."

And here is what the Right needs (emphasis mine):

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: I don't murder children.
The Operative: I do. If I have to.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Why? Do you even know why they sent you?
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.

Kurtz: I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces... seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that. These were not monsters, these were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment! Because it's judgment that defeats us.

171

@115: "Compared to the days of Bob Michel and Howard Baker, Mitch McConnell is a downright dynamo. It has been much worse."

And will be again.

172 Easy.

Because the GOP is ashamed of, and often hates, its base.

The Democrats aren't.

173 THE NARRATIVE IS EVERYTHING You people are killing Conservatism. Stop killing Conservatism, kthxbye.

174 The GOP continues to alienate the younger generations. However, the younger generations are getting older. Back in the early 90s I was trying to become involved with the locals but all they wanted me for was slave labor. In 92 I painted their whole headquarters and didn't get as much as a thank you. Yet, when they wanted someone to put flyers on mailboxes they were ringing all us kids up. Then they went and totally sabotaged the one candidate that the younger set endorsed. He was the reason we were there, doing their crap jobs. Almost 20 years later and it's the same old same old. Except now they don't need the kids at all since they don't even try to understand those computin' things.

175 Has Riehl not seen the websites (with social media integration) for the Republican Governors Association or Remember November? The production value of both are outstanding, especially the videos. They don't pull any punches, either.

176 Dan Riehl is WAY out of line. Didn't the RNC just hire a top man to coordinate their Compuserve BBS's...?

177

Republicans in positions of power have become like the fat family dog. content to sit around all day, licking his empty ballsack and barking at shadows until his master plops down a nice bowl of scraps.