1
What the hell happened to the WaPo? I mean all of them are libs but it seems like they've really gone off the deep end the last few years.

Posted by: Alex at July 16, 2010 12:01 PM (ifK+p)

CYA on Romney's part ?

2 You know who this benefits?  Mitt Romney

3
Damn, don't know how that c/p from another post wound up there.

4

And meanwhile her daughter is possibly eyeing a reality show with her manwhore fiancee.

Yes, let's keep talking about the awesomeness that is Sarah Palin.

5 That's Mitt running for the Tall Grass when the attack backfired on him. Now his people know that they will be thrown under the bus when things start to go South for Team Mittens. Nice going, Mitt. There's a Downfall Parody video out there with your name on it. Sarah collected a huge scalp today. Huge.

6 This looks like he is trying for the best of both worlds. Did he fire these aids? No.

7 He was for the attacks on Palin before being against it.

8 Sarah's biggest problem now is her immature dumbass daughter and that cretin she intends to marry.  A reality show?  Really?  Talk about stabbing your own mother in the back.

9 If it gets any hotter outside, our flag on the sun done going to burn up!

10

This episode makes clear that both Romney and Palin are racists.

11 That dumb ol' Palin dint even gradate frum an Ivy like me. 

12 >>>Sarah collected a huge scalp today. Huge. I don't get the need to impute these huge victories to Palin over frankly trivial matters. It feels like you're giving out Gold Stars at the special olympics.

13 I'm glad Romney when ahead and did this, but this is going to be normal for his camp of aides.

It's hard to have dscipline when his supporters don't believe in anything but victory.

Think about it for a minute.  Why support Mitt?  I think the only argument is the (poorly thought out) idea that he can beat Obama more easily than others.  It's not because of social or fiscal or civil politics, where Mitt's just plain  pissed everyone off at some point with his flippery.

So he's going to have trouble keeping his people under control.  They don't believe in anything.... at least anything more than winning.

Also, it's interesting that Palin is favored by 76% of conservatives and Romney by a mere minority.  There's a reason for that.  Palin stands for something.  You know damn well what she will believe in ten years, whether or not some policy is popular or not.  You have no such faith in Mitt Romney, nor should you.

Mitt should just accept that he just lost the primary.  Too many big Palin supporters were waiting for this and associate it with Mitt like the associate anti-mormon nutcases with Huck.  I notice that Mitt has been making a lot of hay about how he's supporting people in 2010.  Almost as though he's taking more effort to SHOW US he's a team player than to actually BE a team player.  It's like that anti-smoking ad where Phillip Morris gave 250k to some charity and them spend 250 million telling us about it.  Romney is just the kind of politician that the right is totally sick of.  I don't even think this is 100% fair... he's probably just lower in political skill than Palin and didn't realize the long term penalty for being weak on principles.  I think Mitt, however, would be such a poor president because his administration would be all over the place.

I want a LEADER, not something who lets his subordinates carry nasty attacks and then runs them under the Romney Express Bus.

14 Actually, this is low, but I got annoyed at this with Barack Obama, claiming that very minor actions were proof of his greatness.

15 Then he should discover who they were and dismiss them from his campaign.

16 >>>Think about it for a minute. Why support Mitt? I think the only argument is the (poorly thought out) idea that he can beat Obama more easily than others. It's not because of social or fiscal or civil politics, where Mitt's just plain pissed everyone off at some point with his flippery. Not true, at least not among his supporters. In my limited experience Mitt's supporters are almost as rabidly in his favor as Palin's or Ron Paul's (RON PAUL!!!).

17 Good cop/bad cop. The attack gets out there and the Mittster gets to seem like a standup guy. It's going to be a long campaign season.

18 I didn't mean rabidly in a bad way, I mean they are very enthusiastic in a positive way, not just "least of the worst" or a pragmatic thing like "he can win." Ask JackStraw about Romney, for example. He really likes him.

19 Mitt = Used BMW salesman from LA. He just puts out that vibe, and it puts me off.

20 "

And meanwhile her daughter is possibly eyeing a reality show with her manwhore fiancee.

Yes, let's keep talking about the awesomeness that is Sarah Palin.

Posted by: laceyunderalls"

Yeah, let's.  Palin would be a better president than Mitt or the other contenders who have executive experience.  Unless Christie runs. 

But Palin has a jackass for a kid.  Obama has a jackass for a wife.  W had at least some issues with one of his kids, though nothing substantial.  Reagan and Giuliani had terrible problems.

Why do you argue, and don't pretend you didn't, that we should stop talking about (considering) Sarah Palin because her daughter is a fool?  It's not even clear to me this is going to hurt Sarah Palin.  People have accepted and digested Bristol and Levi.  It's a punchline... but it's also going to draw attacks that give Palin and advantage in sympathy.

Most normal people have some jackass in law issue at some point.  Do you?  Does it affect your abilities very much?

Here's the thing: these attacks were made against Mccain, and will be made against Romney in the extremely unlikely event that he can survive a primary.  Can they handle them as well as Palin?  That's a tall order, and Palin also has the benefit of being principled.

21 I get that attacking members of your own party in a primary is a tricky thing but I'm not sure when exactly national level politics became touch football.

I had a long conversation w/anwyn on Twitter last night around this. I get that 'serious human being' was a poor choice but if the aide had said, "serious candidate" or "thinker" or something less personal it shouldn't really be a thing.

They are competing (or may compete) for the same gig, going after one another is part of the deal.

It's going to be really fun spending the next 2 or so years freaking out every time someone says boo about another candidate.

22

It's just easier to dislike and distrust all of the political whores.

That way, you're pleasantly surprised when they don't actually disappoint you as much as you thought they would.

23
Possible name for Bristol and Levi's reality show ?



The Thrilla in Wasilla

24 I'll repeat from my post below:

Megyn Kelly/Laura Ingraham 2012

Just for the awesomeness of the ass-kickings.

25 For one brief, shining moment there, I actually considered the possibility that Ricky Hollywood had straightened up and gave a damn about his baby.  Now I think that it is more likely that he is thinking, "After a few seasons of 'Baggin' Bristol' I'll get a divorce and get some publicity with some crazy ass shit that will make Mel's phone calls seem like Kermit on the phone with Miss Piggy." 

26 Wow. This is going to be a looooooong two years.

27 "
Not true, at least not among his supporters. In my limited experience Mitt's supporters are almost as rabidly in his favor as Palin's or Ron Paul's (RON PAUL!!!).

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:15 PM (jr1wP)"

You're right, ace.

And that perplexes me, but I think some people have determined, based on polls, that Mitt simply is the most likely to beat Obama.  These are people who see beating Obama as far more important than who beats him.  Something to be said for that, but I think it bolsters my view that they could be all over the place and difficult to control.

Just look at Mitt's circle... they are not under control, they are telling Time magazine what a dumb stupid hot bitch Palin is.

28 We should not be referring to these "attackers" as Romney supporters.  These are Romney aids and advisers. IOW they work for him.  He would get more credit if he fired them.

29

Why do you argue, and don't pretend you didn't, that we should stop talking about (considering) Sarah Palin because her daughter is a fool?

Because no one talks about Obama's sunt-y wife. But boy do they love to pile on with Palin. Don't act like the double standard doesn't matter.

30 This could be regrettable: Bristol and Ricky Hollywood claimed to be shopping around reality tv show rights to their wedding.

--What's the big deal?  HBO made a special about my election campaign coronation preparation less than a year afterward.

31 I'm still going down...

32 Possible name for Bristol and Levi's reality show ?



The Thrilla in Wasilla

Posted by: Blazer at July 16, 2010 12:18 PM (t72+4)

The Levi Johnson Show _{with Bristol and Baby}

33

Ace is right. Did she really collect Romney's scalp because he apologized? Or just some no-name Romney flunkie's?

Also, he's correct in that the Sarah-worship is approaching "creepy" levels. I understand the need to try to protect her after all of the unwarranted lefty attacks, but frankly she and her family are not making things easier.

 

 

34 Todd and Track need to take Ricky Hollywood hunting.  With Dick Cheney.  Just to be sure....

35 Possible name for Bristol and Levi's reality show ?

Whose Ratings Poison Is It Anyway?

36 >>>Just look at Mitt's circle... they are not under control, they are telling Time magazine what a dumb stupid hot bitch Palin is. Dude, you have to gear down in the Palin boosterism a bit. You're criticizing Mitt's supporters for ragging on Palin while you yourself are doing nothing but ragging on Mitt. See the problem?

37 "I had a long conversation w/anwyn on Twitter last night around this. I get that 'serious human being' was a poor choice but if the aide had said, "serious candidate" or "thinker" or something less personal it shouldn't really be a thing.

They are competing (or may compete) for the same gig, going after one another is part of the deal.

It's going to be really fun spending the next 2 or so years freaking out every time someone says boo about another candidate."

Drew, it should be legit, but it isn't.

Why?  because our politicians who actually make it to the big show should demonstrate that they are not terrible at politics.  this kind of attack on Palin's humanity or merely seriousness is completely stupid politics.  Palin is loved by 75% of the GOP.  Romney isn't.  He cannot beat Obama if he can't have Palin's support.

And if he can't keep his senior staff from saying dumb crap like this, I don't really want him to beat Obama.  We do not need a conservative poser supporting Obama's policies, entrenching them as Nixon did the Great Society.

Romney should instead do what Palin does: show us HIS seriousness.  Instead of overboasting on his support of other GOP candidates, he should SHOW us policy leadership the way Palin has with her silly facebook page that actually gets shit done.  Instead of telling us how unserious Palin is, he should be a serious leader and let us make the comparison.  'Cause I'm telling you, Romney is not looking like a serious leader just because his idiot said Palin is a silly girl.

38 I get that attacking members of your own party in a primary is a tricky thing but I'm not sure when exactly national level politics became touch football.

The key is to refrain from "personal" attacks. Policies and positions are open game so you can attack them all you want.

Name calling and personal attacks though are underhanded. Most people don't even like personal attacks when going against the other Party, much less your own.

And no Huck doesn't get a free pass on his Mormon attacks either.

39

Just look at Mitt's circle... they are not under control, they are telling Time magazine what a dumb stupid hot bitch Palin is.

Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 12:20 PM (dUOK+)

At least they got the part about her being 'hot' right!

40

OT

Holder, "Screw that!  We've got better things to do with our time... like ignoring all of the other injustices done by our minions!  Hah hah hahhhh!"

http://tinyurl.com/2fpzbfc

HotAir

41 "Dude, you have to gear down in the Palin boosterism a bit.

You're criticizing Mitt's supporters for ragging on Palin while you yourself are doing nothing but ragging on Mitt. See the problem?

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:24 PM (jr1wP)"\

LOL, good point!

I don't really care, to be honest.  I realize you made a good point, though.

I will note that I am not Palin's inner circle.  She would throw me out of her house in 5 minutes tops.  I'm not going to Time Magazine as her senior staff.

But nonetheless, Mitt Romney smells like pee and is a douchebag.

42 35 Possible name for Bristol and Levi's reality show ?

Whose Ratings Poison Is It Anyway?

Posted by: The Mega Independent at July 16, 2010 12:23 PM (aOABC)

How about "The Price is Right"

43

Why do you argue, and don't pretend you didn't, that we should stop talking about (considering) Sarah Palin because her daughter is a fool?

Because no one talks about Obama's sunt-y wife. But boy do they love to pile on with Palin. Don't act like the double standard doesn't matter.

Posted by: laceyunderalls

 

Great point. So you should nominate someone that 'they' love, so as to avoid all of that unpleasantness. This is a proven path to victory. Just look at me.

44 4 Yes, let's keep talking about the awesomeness that is Sarah Palin. Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:08 PM (pLTLS)

No please, do lecture us more on the brilliance of Mitt Romneycare.

45 Reality show name:

Levi's Johnson in Bristol

46 >>>Also, he's correct in that the Sarah-worship is approaching "creepy" levels. I feel this way too. I don't understand why things cannot be discussed in a less emotional, less superlative manner. There was a bit of sniping between Mitt's aides and then back from a Palin aide. This is not exactly Reagan's "Tear down this wall." And what is worrying here is the desire to attribute tangible victories to Palin over NothingGates, which suggests to me that among even her strongest supporters there is a worry that she doesn't have a lot of such tangible victories lately. Like when the press went ga-ga over a dumb essay Obama wrote when he was in second grade, and claimed it proved he'd be a great president. Really? Desperate much? It is way too early for us to be having these charged debates about the nominee. They get divisive, and anyone pushing a candidate can expect those not sold on the candidate to push back. Let's take, um, Sarah Palin's own advice and focus on 2010.

47 Romney = Obama Lite

Who's more likely to push to get ObamanationCare repealed, Palin or Romney?

48 Oh good lord, Bristol and the Jerk are looking at "reality TV" as a source of income?

What the hell is wrong with people these days?  I cannot think of any "star" of "reality TV" who is other than a flat out whore.  And the only reason they do this stuff is because "There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

Levi Johnston is like a stream of bat's piss.

49 Possible name for Bristol and Ricky's reality show?

Two Twits and a Baby

50 "

Why do you argue, and don't pretend you didn't, that we should stop talking about (considering) Sarah Palin because her daughter is a fool?

Because no one talks about Obama's sunt-y wife. But boy do they love to pile on with Palin. Don't act like the double standard doesn't matter.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:20 PM (pLTLS)"

I grant this is a good point too.  But Palin is weathering this crap.  I wish there was less crap to weather.  I may come across as a Palin die-hard, but I would prefer Ryan or Christie, neither of whom I think will run (I could be wrong).

I will note that Romney will have to weather this crap too.  And I don't think he can.  The democrats are not stupid: they will keep their powder dry.  Only reason they didn't with Palin is that she was a major threat to Obama's campaign.

51 And speaking of the RINOs I keep refreshing Drudge and Fox looking for the Senate Republican leadership's call for stripping the ME sisters and Brown of committee positions following their traitorous vote for Doddfascism bill.

I'm not seeing it though.

52 No, ace, this came from Romney. This was a planned leak. If you think this was off the cuff remarks to Helprin, then you don't know how campaigns work, and I know that you know better than that. Nothing like this happens by accident in politics. Mitt just threw some of his top guys under the bus and looked like a girly-man doing it. Not good for Mittens. Not good at all. Sarah took his scalp today and made him look like a little boy.

53

No please, do lecture us more on the brilliance of Mitt Romneycare.

Umm, did I do that? Yeah, no, I didn't think so.

Sheesus, Palinista's are as bad (or worse at times) than Obamabots.

54 In the meantime, Chuckles Huckabee is sitting back with a bowl of popcorn.

{{shudder}}

55 Goddammit. I want Reagan back.....

56 You see why we should kill all those cracka babies now.

57 "Let's take, um, Sarah Palin's own advice and focus on 2010.

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:28 PM (jr1wP)"

I noticed that Palin's silhouette is identical to Jesus's.

She is the second coming of God.

I'll be honest, I kinda find this more entertaining than the 2010 race.  Less important insofar as what I should be worried about, but oh well.

58 >>>The key is to refrain from "personal" attacks. Policies and positions are open game so you can attack them all you want. This standard though benefits Palin, though, and probably too much, if you asked Romney supporters. Because few Republicans have a problem with any of Palin's policies; as a rule, she's pretty strong, pretty in sync with the right-of-center-right conservative mainstream. Romney of course has some problems on policies. The big knock on Palin is frankly is she up to the job and I doubt very much anyone is going to agree to a rule which prohibits them from attacking Palin on her biggest weak point.

59 Megyn Kelly/Laura Ingraham 2012

No it has to be

Palin/Bachmann 2012

The campaign slogans write themselves.

60 All that said, I can't believe Palin's bad luck with the Palin clan version of Fredo, Levi Johnston. A "reality" show. Jesus. Sarah, run for the hills. Better yet, stay on the campaign trail.

61 >>>I'll be honest, I kinda find this more entertaining than the 2010 race. Less important insofar as what I should be worried about, but oh well. Did you post through the 2008 primary season? My experience was that it was extremely conentious and people got very, very angry with each other. Obviously that will happen (must happen) again but I'm not super-keen on kicking that off earlier than necessary.

62 Name calling and personal attacks though are underhanded. Most people don't even like personal attacks when going against the other Party, much less your own.
Posted by: Vic at July 16, 2010 12:24 PM (/jbAw)

Again, "serious human being" wasn't the right choice but if he'd said, "serious thinker" which I think fits more with the rest of the quote, that seems in bounds. And if you aren't in the mood to give the aide slack (which I understand), questioning Palin's depth of knowledge on some issues and her ability to articulate them beyond a 15 second soundbite is a legitimate, non-personal line of attack. It's a pretty common theme for those of not sold on her.

63 You guys have fun.  I'm exhausted after plugging the hole.  I'm off to Maine with my gorgeous beard and the kids. 

Watch this drive!

64 I am going to give Mitt kudos on this one.  It was the right thing to do, no matter the reasons behind it.

Alas, he will not get my primary (both definitions) support, unless he totally and irrevocably eschews socialist healthcare.  Come on Mitt, you called out your supporters on a mistake, do it for yourself.

65 Check out conservatives4palin if you want to see some video of Romney's greatest flip flops on every major issue. They put it out right after Romney's people trashed Sarah. NO MORE FREE SHOTS AT SARAH. Like the John J Rambo said "They drew first blood, not me." Sarah did not start it, but we (her supporters) will finish it.

66 >>>Not good for Mittens. Not good at all. Sarah took his scalp today and made him look like a little boy. Right, she like, really demonstrated presidential command here, it's so obvious that some petty sniping is a major victory here. Kind of a "where were you when JFK was shot" sort of thing. She PWN3d him bad.

67 The reality show thing tells me... Palin aint running for President.

68 Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:28 PM (jr1wP)

Is there really that much hardcore Palin boosting going on in here? I think your comments about Palin boosting in this thread outnumber the actual Palin boosting.

69 Obviously that will happen (must happen) again but I'm not super-keen on kicking that off earlier than necessary.

Now there's some solid advice. The circular firing squad is an inevitability, but there's no reason why we can't wait until after we control congress to start the shooting.

70 Gotta say one thing for Bristol, she sure knows how to pick 'em. What a fucking idiot she is, even for her age. I mean shine a flashlight at the base of her skull and get two points of light focused on the wall through her corneas idiot.

71 Drew:   I get that 'serious human being' was a poor choice but if the aide had said, "serious candidate" or "thinker" or something less personal it shouldn't really be a thing.

Yes, because only "serious candidates" and "thinkers" could come up with something as profoundly flawed, unConstitutional and immoral as Romneycare.  Yes, more "thinkers" please.

72 And anybody who says this didn't come straight from Romney is either a wishful thinker or just devoted to stopping the fight (that kind of pragmatism is pretty similar to Romney support in and of itself).

This is how Romney ran his show in 2008, too.  This was testing the waters for this kind of fight.  A lot of people think the right just needs to be slapped into sensibility on how silly Palin is.  We just don't get it, that she's a punchline and we should pick on of these other losers.

Even if you're right: we are not going to get it.  It is not going to happen.  Obama's operation isn't stupid, and will arrange a third party.   Do the math, friends.  It's always better to piss off the pragmatics, so a third party candidate isn't going to get much support from Mitt's people.  But Palin supporters?  A lot of them see this as a referendum on something very basic to our national identity.  Sane or not, she's going the the nominee or we're going to see Obama win a plurality like 1996.

73

Don't forget to vacation on the Gulf Coast this summer to help out the folks who have been really hurt by the spill ! As for me the wookster and the kids, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent a day on the local economy with our security and press entourage we'll be in Maine.

74 The reason I'm not as worried about the effect Palin's children might have on her possible campaign is because I remember Reagan's kids(sans the adopted kids) being just as batshit crazy.  Of course they didn't have the Internet back then and Twitter but still same principle.  Ronnie Junior taking ballet lessons?  Christ.

So it's not Palin's dumb as fuck daughter who concerns me but Palin's utter lack of experience and proven ability to work as an effective executive in a town like Washington.

That said, I'd rather have an unproven conservative in the White House than a proven RINO fag dickless monkey boy like Romney.

75 Maybe Romney needs to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with his staff and get them all on the same page...by which I mean fire them all. 

76

_{You're criticizing Mitt's supporters for ragging on Palin while you yourself are doing nothing but ragging on Mitt. See the problem?}

No.  They don't.

This is the same mechanism that the Palin supporters always employ. Just like the Obamabots.  You can't point out her lack of credentials without her being compared to Obama and his lack of credentials: like that's a yard-stick we should measure all candidates by. 

She only appears viable as an alternative to Obama.  The problems of an administration that has near to nothing in the experience department are readily apparent - Yet the Palin supporters want us to double down on inexperience and emotional fervor. Like Sarah has a special brand of inexperience that President Toonces lacks. 

The Bristol/Levi story is a whole other mess. 

77 Think about it for a minute.  Why support Mitt?  I think the only argument is the (poorly thought out) idea that he can beat Obama more easily than others.  It's not because of social or fiscal or civil politics, where Mitt's just plain  pissed everyone off at some point with his flippery.

The main argument in support of Mitt, imho, is supposed to be his administrative/executive competence.  I rarely hear people argue on his behalf based on ideological grounds.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's been my impression.

So when Obamacare happened and he didn't come out strongly against it based on his experiences in Massachusetts I thought he was just failing to communicate that there's a distinction between what a state does and what the Feds should/can do.  But it seems as though he's has plenty of time to voice that position, but he hasn't.  Instead, he really seems to be wedded to government delivery of healthcare.  So that's a major ideological flaw in a guy who isn't really a strong candidate based on ideology. 

Now couple that with an inability -- apparently -- to reign in blabbermouth staffers (giving Mitt the benefit of the doubt here that he is not actually directing these asinine statements) and what you have is a guy who is supposed to be a good executive demonstrating a failure to manage his staff.  Leadership fail. 

That's how I've come around to Romney no longer being a viable candidate for me to vote for.

Some of the other candidates that I've liked in the past had a mix of some strong ideological positions (Giuliani: law and order, Fred!: federalism) with "management" chops (showing leadership as mayor of NYC during a critical time, having mucho mucho government experience).  When you're multi-dimensional like that, you can afford to have some flaws and still get my vote. 

But Romney is one-dimensional.  If he doesn't demonstrate competence as an executive and he also fails on a big ideological point, then there really is no reason to vote for him. 

Of course, I'd still vote for him over Huckabee or Obama. 

78 Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 12:24 PM (dUOK+)

It's like a car race, you can't win if you are always following in other people's path. You have to slow them down or get them to move.

There's simply nothing wrong with pointing out a potential rival may not be entirely up to speed on issues and have sufficient policy depth to be President or even a candidate.

It's up to the voters to make that decision.

There seems to be an idea out there that normal political stuff is suddenly out of bounds because it cuts badly against Palin.

I'd have no problem with that aide if he substituted Huckabee for Palin. It would be a reasonable and in bounds attack to my mind.

79 @77 formatting fail - first paragraph is supposed to be quoted from another post above

80 He cannot beat Obama if he can't have Palin's support.

Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 12:24 PM (dUOK+)

hmmm... Something to ponder.

81 The big knock on Palin is frankly is she up to the job and I doubt very much anyone is going to agree to a rule which prohibits them from attacking Palin on her biggest weak point.

Posted by: ace

 

Is this 'knock' arrived at objectively, or one seen through the prism of conventional wisdom and the chances of an MFM onslaught? If it's the latter, let's just re-nominate McCain.

82 "She PWN3d him bad.

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:35 PM (jr1wP)"

As silly as this ought to be, yeah, she did win the battle, looks more presidential, and Romney flip flopped again because his people are rudderless beyond 'we should win the election'.  They don't even know if they should love Palin and make her the consolation VP winner, or if they should hate her for being unhumanly unserious.

I think you know this matters quite a bit.  Obama won because of silly crap like this.  Palin has weathered the insane attacks on her because of silly reactions that appeal to emotion.  Mitt probably cannot weather them because no one really cares about him enough to be emotional.

83 I like Palin, but I think the media was just too successful at making her look bad. I know too many center rights who now can't stand her for that reason. I think you would have a better chance winning with Teh Fred than Palin.

84 but Palin's utter lack of experience and proven ability to work as an effective executive in a town like Washington.

A president doesn't need to be a leg breaker or masterful at arm twisting.  They DO however need to know who to hire that can do those things.

85 I'm overrated

86 The fact that Romney's campaign would want to be a distraction from the 2010 elections doesn't make sense from the stand point of helping the Republican party win in November.  Is it because he doesn't care or does he just employ people who are just doing their own thing?

87
Kind of a "where were you when JFK was shot" sort of thing.

She PWN3d him bad.

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:35 PM (jr1wP)

That was the same day I fell out the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down and landed directly on my head on a concrete sidewalk. I'll never forget it.

88 >>>Is there really that much hardcore Palin boosting going on in here? That much? No not that much, and yes, you are right, my posts exceed the ones I speak of. (Then again, I buy pixels by the barrel and don't have another job so I can whoop someone just through out-posting them to death.) But it's a general tendency. It just happens a fair amount. It's not Sarah-can-do-no-wrong so much as it's Sarah-can-do-nothing-short-of-miraculous. I don't find it all that impressive, this instance, I don't think it hurts Mitt, and his own statement puts the matter to rest in a way that benefits him. (It also benefits Palin, in that it affirms her "smarts," and that's good, but I am a little troubled that a major candidate needs affirmation on that score.) It's a story, yes, and I thought so too (I posted it), but I think it is demeaning and condescending, like, as I said, handing out Gold Stars at the Special Olympics, to claim that very minor, very trivial things are some amazing triumphs by Palin. It seems desperate to me.

89 19 Mitt = Used BMW salesman from LA. He just puts out that vibe, and it puts me off.

Posted by: joncelli at July 16, 2010 12:17 PM (RD7QR)

Huckster = snake oil salesman

Newt = creepy porn DVD salesman

 

90

I like Palin, but I think the media was just too successful at making her look bad.

Agreed.... up until 2008.

Now she does a bang-up job all on her own making sure she 'looks bad'. I can no longer watch on Fox. Shrill.

And I was a supporter. Big time. At her coming-out party in Dayton to lots of fan fare.

Now she just leaves my eyes twitching.

She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

91

. I think you would have a better chance winning with Teh Fred than Palin.

Maybe, but you would first have to rouse him from his coma.

92

The reality show thing tells me... Palin aint running for President

I tend to agree, but I guess stranger things have happened.  Good Lord, if I was Sarah Palin I think I would have taken a whip to both Bristol and Levi.  They sure ain't helpin the situation!

93 Inevitably we are not going to get Romney in the Primaries either unless the national party rewrites the primary rules even worse than they are now.

As I said in the other thread, I don't think any of the big three being listed as the "front runners" will wind up being the candidate in 2012. I really don't think Palin plans on running.

But we do need to get rid of the stupid winner take all rules and we need to reorder the States who have primaries first. Perennial Blue States should NOT have the important first say on Republican primaries.  

94 Sarah Honey, just get an Ivy degree.  It helps a lot.  Maybe Harvard at Night?

95

I sorta expected Romney to do exactly that (distancing himself from the anonymous source). 

But...

IF  Romney doesn't name names (which of his former aides bad-mouthing) and promise never to have any more to do with that person, it ('Romney Defends Palin From Own Aides' Attacks') didn't happen.

IF Romney wants to play a prominent role in the new President Paline's administration, he better get his act together pronto.

96 "There's simply nothing wrong with pointing out a potential rival may not be entirely up to speed on issues and have sufficient policy depth to be President or even a candidate.

It's up to the voters to make that decision."

I agree on a moral level, Drew.  Believe me, I think it's fucking terrible that this is how things are playing out.

But I've decided to go with the flow because, frankly, I think it favors the person I find to have more credibility on actually turning things around and taking the horseshit that any reformed is going to take.

Also, there's nothing we can do about it.  This is how our country decides who its leader is. 

Like I said before, though, if Mitt wants to show us serious leadership, he can do so any time.  He is not really making the case for his leadership ability right now.  Palin is doing something on that score.  Something that looks pathetic next to Ryan or Christie or even Brewer, but something more than sending a lackey to Time Magazine.

97

Umm, did I do that? Yeah, no, I didn't think so.. Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:30 PM (pLTLS)

Um, What you did was take a swipe at Palin based on your holier than though disapproval of Palin's daughter.  Straight out of the Rombot's Manual.  And while we're on it, maybe we should know more about Romney's daughters (if he has any), or yours.

98 The whole thing is facepalm-worthy. It looks like children on the playground. I can't take ANY of the prospective candidates seriously right now on account of crap like this. Mitt? A RINO's RINO. (And surrounded by fools.) Huck? A prog in con's clothing. RUN FROM HIM. Newt? Looooooong past his expiration date. Paul? Bwahahahahahah...I'm sorry, what was the question? Palin? Better employed elsewhere in the cause. Explain to me, please, why the last two years have not been spent developing more options than these?

99 I will repeal all of Obama's legislation.

Won't I?

100 84 but Palin's utter lack of experience and proven ability to work as an effective executive in a town like Washington.

A president doesn't need to be a leg breaker or masterful at arm twisting.  They DO however need to know who to hire that can do those things.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 16, 2010 12:39 PM (yAakC)

You rang??

101 "She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:41 PM (pLTLS) "

She certainly sounds dumber.  I hope that is just some strange politics bullshit.  She has a long way to fall before Romney is competitive. 

Let's see what's what at the debates.

102 Yes, because only "serious candidates" and "thinkers" could come up with something as profoundly flawed, unConstitutional and immoral as Romneycare.  Yes, more "thinkers" please.
Posted by: the trouble with Republicans is.. at July 16, 2010 12:36 PM (jat5l)

At least unlike Sarah, Mitt finished his term of office.

More "quitters" please.



(See what I did there? Now, I agree that RomenyCare is a problem for Mitt. Hell, I've written on this very website it's the reason he cannot become the nominee. So I agree that it's a valid line of attack on him.

On the other hand, I will get a bunch of comments saying why Palin's quitting wasn't bad, shouldn't be held against her or is an unfair attack. I think all candidates are fair game but then I don't have a horse in the race yet and likely won't other than in a begrudging way).

103
Speaking of Scott Brown...

Look at all his 'friends' across the aisle rush to defend the honor of his daughters after that dingbat bitch called his girls prostitutes.

104

Um, What you did was take a swipe at Palin based on your holier than though disapproval of Palin's daughter.

Yes. Because, like it or not (and you seem unwilling to see it), it goes towards her parenting, her credibility, her everything. The bar is higher for her. Sorry, I didn't make the rules. I just understand them a bit better than you apparently.

But I said nothing about supporting or loving Romneycare as you stated.

Thank you, come again.

105 Please stop shooting at me

106 I personally like Sarah, but would prefer her in more or less her courrent role, not running for election of any kind.

Hell, she draws a lot of flak and may make it easier for whoever does run for President.

107 "Did you post through the 2008 primary season?

My experience was that it was extremely conentious and people got very, very angry with each other.

Obviously that will happen (must happen) again but I'm not super-keen on kicking that off earlier than necessary.

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 12:33 PM (jr1wP)"

Yeah, I did.  I got into huge fights with Jackstraw about Romney, actually.  But I wound up supporting him at the end.

I see your point, though.  The LULZ turn into a headache quick.

108 A president doesn't need to be a leg breaker or masterful at arm twisting.  They DO however need to know who to hire that can do those things.

I always thought that was Bush's strong suit until one by one they all started betraying him.  I would hope Palin will be a better judge of human character than Bush was.

But more than that, she needs to be an in your face "I will rip your goddamned balls off if you do not toe the party line" bully, and I think she has that ability.  We need someone to bully, harass and torment the shit out of the congressional Democrats more than anything, and God knows she's motivated to do that.

109

She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:41 PM (pLTLS)

Yeah, I'm sure all those SC Republican base voters who moved Haley from last place to first after the Palin endorsement agree with you that she has gotten dumber.

110 Obama's operation isn't stupid, and will arrange a third party.

Bingo.  Clinton would never have won, either time, without Ross Perot.

111

Yes, let's keep talking about the awesomeness that is Sarah Palin.

 

I won't crucify Palin for the faults of her daughter.  Not necessarily her fault that Bristol seems to be a knucklehead. 

That being said, I want a GOP candidate that will win in 2012, and I doubt Sarah is that candidate.

112 I hate to say this but if Bristol signs up for a reality tv show, that will be the end of any presidential aspirations for Sarah.  People will view her as a bad mother and unfortunately, women are seen as mom's first.  The story will go...if these are the values she instills in her kids, do we really want her as our President.  And...if she can't even properly raise her kids, how is she going to run a country.  And this does nothing to dispel the "white trash" label.

It's not fair and I know she is not responsible for what her adult daughter does, but even I am tiring of the tabloid drama.  I have defended Palin for 2 years now and have been one of her biggest fans, but this latest news has caused me to reconsider my continued support of her 2012 Presidential bid. 

I think if Bristol becomes a reality tv star, Sarah can still continue her activism.  But the White House is pretty much out of the question.  She may make it out of the primary, but would never win an election.  Independents are already not very fond of her and this her daughter being on reality tv will just tip them permanently into the HELL NO category.

Sarah should have kept her children out of the spotlight and never encouraged her daughter to take up speaking engagements and make easy money.  She should have steered her in the direction of a college education and a normal job.  So Sarah is partly to blame for this.

113

You're criticizing Mitt's supporters for ragging on Palin while you yourself are doing nothing but ragging on Mitt. See the problem?

Not really no.  Maybe you could go over the middle part again?

Lol.. sorry, couldn't resist.

114
Look at all his 'friends' across the aisle rush to defend the honor of his daughters after that dingbat bitch called his girls prostitutes.

Posted by: you make me want to smoke at July 16, 2010 12:45 PM (uFokq)

--Huh? Who was it?  I have been isolated from the news for a while.

115 LOL, that reminded me of another point. Romney endorsed Haley first and it had no impact on the polls.

116 This whole topic is non-productive for at least another 5 months.

117 "At least unlike Sarah, Mitt finished his term of office."

No, Drew, he did not finish his term of office.  Half way through it, he decided he was running for president and geared things up radically while neglecting his Governor's work.  His approval was negative by the time he left office, though he was never a very popular governor even when he was doing his job.

Both Romney and Palin quit.  One of them was honest about it.

118 I really loved Sarah Palin. But I'm beginning to think it's over for her. Her family life, specifically that idiot daughter and her leg huncher, are making a laughing stock of her. I mean serious damage. Getting tougher to take her seriously when she has raised Dumb, who is hitched with Dumber, and had his spawn, and is now on the clown express for the long ride. That shit rubs off, she will not be able to separate herself from the very public clown show that her family has become. I am afraid she is done for.

119 She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

Well now, she's not getting dumber, but she, as  far as I can tell, is not getting up on issues, which she will need to be taken seriously.  She is very good at reacting, but not very good with the follow up question of "what is your solution?".

I do agree she is too damaged from the media to make a winning candidate, not her fault, but it is what it is.

I am currently still with the Pence/Cheney ticket, although very unlikely.

120 Let thee not disparage the Mitt. He can be trusted, he has blue eyes.

121 Sarah would do herself a major favor if she'd just take some public speaking classes.  Seriously.  I was a big Palin supporter when McCain introduced, and a family member worked with her (not one of the back-stabbers).  She's smart, but when she gets fired up, her voice takes on the sound of dogs and cats going at each other.  It's really uncomfortable, because you want her to do well.

122 106 I personally like Sarah, but would prefer her in more or less her courrent role, not running for election of any kind.

Hell, she draws a lot of flak and may make it easier for whoever does run for President.

Posted by: logprof at July 16, 2010 12:45 PM (BP6Z1)

This. She can provide a valuable service to the upcoming elections doing just what she is doing now. She needs to stay on the sidelines in a support role.  She is a magnet for controversy and too politically wounded to run for president at this time.

123 It's a story, yes, and I thought so too (I posted it), but I think it is demeaning and condescending, like, as I said, handing out Gold Stars at the Special Olympics, to claim that very minor, very trivial things are some amazing triumphs by Palin.

It seems desperate to me.

Not for nothing, but in general, I agree with you. I find the Palin Defense Force extremely troubling at times.

But I also like Palin, primarily because of how much she upsets liberals, and secondarily because of her positions (IYKWIM)... and sort of would like it out there that there are many sane, conservative people that support her and are pretty rational about it.

124

Yes. Because, like it or not (and you seem unwilling to see it), it goes towards her parenting, her credibility, her everything. Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:45 PM (pLTLS)

You must have hated Reagan, his kids were a mess (then again, lots of Rombots hated Reagan).

125 Sarah should have kept her children out of the spotlight and never encouraged her daughter to take up speaking engagements and make easy money.  She should have steered her in the direction of a college education and a normal job.  So Sarah is partly to blame for this.

Yeah, I kinda agree with you about that... although, in fairness, we don't know what Sarah (and Todd) urged Bristol to do. 

It does seem weird that Bristol cannot pursue a college degree but she can work a full-time job (she's a medical assistant) while living on her own, which I assume means that Tripp is in daycare. 

I still think Sarah's best bet at getting elected to a national office is to move to the lower 48, establish residency somewhere, and get elected again. 

126 >>No, ace, this came from Romney. This was a planned leak. If you think this was off the cuff remarks to Helprin, then you don't know how campaigns work, and I know that you know better than that. >>Nothing like this happens by accident in politics. >>Mitt just threw some of his top guys under the bus and looked like a girly-man doing it. So if I understand you, Mitt planned this leak so he could then plan his response just to look like a girly-man? That seems like a bit of an odd strategy. How about this instead, one of the many political advisors who haunt DC and outnumber the politicians about 100 to 1 and who live to be sen as "the guy in the know" shot his mouth off to show what a tough guy he is totally on his own. Either that or you have to believe that in addition to disliking Romney you think he is quite possibly the dumbest politician on the planet. Possible but a bit unlikely. Is Romney setting his sights on Palin? You bet. Just as she is setting her sights on him, just as every politician running for office sets his or her sights on the competition. Name me one candidate for President last election, Dem or Rep, who didn't take shots at their primary competition. Just one. But more than 2 year before the election when both candidates are busily running around the country raising money, distributing it to candidates and building chits seems like a particularly stupid time to start a Presidential primary attack. Can't we wait until after the mid-term to start eating our own again?

127 But more than that, she needs to be an in your face "I will rip your goddamned balls off if you do not toe the party line" bully, .

Posted by: The Man with the Non Creased Pants at July 16, 2010 12:46 PM (gLNLT)

I am getting a strange thrill

128

She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

It's Friday and I'm in a good mood and I've been a big prick around here lately so I'm gonna be easy on you.

Sarah Palin has not done a single thing wrong. Nothing. She's been great to us and she's been our voice against this evil regime in Washington. Yes, I'm getting tired of all the baggage and sometimes I think it's time to cut bait and let Sarah go.

But she deserves our support because she's always been loyal to us. Never once has she had a bad word for the conservative base. And she's not dumb. Sarah Palin is smart. You know how I know this? Because she says what I'm (we're) thinking and agrees with me (us) on everything

129

See what I did there? Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 12:44 PM (X/Lqh)

Yup, you changed the subject.

130 Good cop-bad cop?  I wouldn't put it past them.  And I like Romney.

131

you make me want to smoke at July 16, 2010 12:51 PM (uFokq)

 

Well played.

132 I do agree she is too damaged from the media to make a winning candidate, not her fault, but it is what it is.

Is there a Republican out there that we can confidently say won't be "damaged by the media" by the time they are, or while they are, running against King America-Hater Plus? Seriously?

133 I grant that Lacey has an argument that Palin's daughter is a strike against her.

Though from a politics standpoint, she's taken the toll for it.  From a personal view standpoint, I bump her from an A+ to an A for it.

It's already taken into account and I don't think a rational person would say Palin is inferior to, say, Romney for this.  They have more substantial records.  One was a very popular and capable governor, and the other was an unpopular disaster.  One has had some kind of core viewpoint she doesn't get shaken from by popularity contests, and the other has always said the most convenient thing and would not take the heat when it came time to kill earmarks and pork and corruption.

Reagan had problems with kids.  I ding him a little, at worst to a B+ (he did screw up sometimes).  Bush did, but I think that's negligible.  Giuliani, my favorite guy in 2008, lost some points for this.

Let's not pretend Palin supporters haven't noticed this and taken it into account.  They just think she's still the best, with that considered, compared to who we know is running.

134 123 Let thee not disparage the Mitt. He can be trusted, he has blue eyes.

Posted by: Zombie Brigham Young at July 16, 2010 12:50 PM (EL+OC)

We agree!

135 I think some of you missed the poll from yesterday that showed Palin BEATING Obama among INDEPENDENTS! All the people were bunched up around 46%. All she has to do is improve her numbers by 5 pts over the next 2 years and she wins. She has not run a single TV ad yet or debated, or campaigned for herself. I am dumbfounded by all the "she can't win" stuff when there is numerical evidence to the contrary. If you think someone else is better, fine, great, I wish you the best, but the truth is that there are currently about 4-5 GOP people who can beat Obama in 2012 and she is one of them. Challenge her record. Go ahead. I welcome it because when you look into it you will find what I did and that is a principled conservative who has lived those principles in her private life and her government life from Mayor, to Oil and Gas Commissioner, to Governor. Cutting spending, returning power to the people, exposing corruption even if it is in her own party. God Bless.

136 Both Romney and Palin quit.  One of them was honest about it.
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 12:48 PM (dUOK+)

I just want to thank you for illustrating my point better than I ever could have.

137 114
Look at all his 'friends' across the aisle rush to defend the honor of his daughters after that dingbat bitch called his girls prostitutes.

Posted by: you make me want to smoke at July 16, 2010 12:45 PM (uFokq)

--Huh? Who was it?  I have been isolated from the news for a while.

Posted by: logprof at July 16, 2010 12:47 PM (BP6Z1)

"Comedien" Kathy Griffin called his daughter sluts.

Classy.

 

138 Ok, I'm a little confused.

Palin is not ready for the Presidency because she has, apparently, too little executive experience, but Christie would be just fine even though he would have the same amount of executive experience as she...

Honestly, we should probably call a moratorium on Palin discussions.

139 I'm keeping Ricky Hollywood in my dead pool. Once the limelight is gone - he is bearshit.

140 Not for nothing, but in general, I agree with you. I find the Palin Defense Force extremely troubling at times.

Posted by: The Mega Independent

I for one endorse the 'let the chips fall where they may' philosophy. This is a healthy environment where candidates receive a baptism of fire that ensures that we as a country are presented with qualified candidates.Therefore, people defending cadidates runs counter to this well honed time honored system.

 

And then we lie about them and grind them into the dust, because we're lazy ideologues who have been bought, sold, rented and passed around at bachelor parties.

141 Levi's new show - The Biggest Loser Johnson

142 Sarah's endorsement of Angle is working out very well I see.
Let's maker her President. Yeah.

143 Ok, I'm a little confused.

Palin is not ready for the Presidency because she has, apparently, too little executive experience, but Christie would be just fine even though he would have the same amount of executive experience as she...

Honestly, we should probably call a moratorium on Palin discussions.

Posted by: Robert

 

Thank you!!!!!!!!! Someone gets it!

144

I won't crucify Palin for the faults of her daughter.  Not necessarily her fault that Bristol seems to be a knucklehead. 

That being said, I want a GOP candidate that will win in 2012, and I doubt Sarah is that candidate.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 16, 2010 12:46 PM (zgZzy)

I agree. Palin isnt stupid .. but the damage is done...

You have a lot of people who believe she is an idiot.. doesn't matter if what they believe is all lies. They wont change their mind.

I want Obama GONE in 2012. 

145 Palin is not ready for the Presidency because she has, apparently, too little executive experience, but Christie would be just fine even though he would have the same amount of executive experience as she...

Wasn't Christie a District Atty?  Don't they run an office full of lawyers? 

146

I have something really relevant and meaningful to say on this subject. 

 It was so important that I wrote it down on my hand, so I wouldn't forget...

I just can't type it and read it at the same time.

147 I think I'll make Bachman my new favorite.

148 I'm not confident we are going to get a strong contender in 2012. Our best conservatives have claimed they are not running and those who are left are either squishy or just plain weak. Here's to hoping one of the best change their minds.

149 Is there a Republican out there that we can confidently say won't be "damaged by the media" by the time they are, or while they are, running against King America-Hater Plus? Seriously?

Yes there are.  The difference is between climbing Pikes Peak via the road to the top vs. Mt. Everest weighed down by thousand pound weights.

150 damnit, sock off

151 150 I think I'll make Bachman my new favorite.

Posted by: maddogg at July 16, 2010 12:58 PM (OlN4e)

<Applauds loudly>

152 "Can't we wait until after the mid-term to start eating our own again?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 12:51 PM (VW9/y)"

People are desperate and the stakes are high.  This fight is going to get much worse.  People could be killed, but for sure, many friendships will be killed.  Blog wars, comment fights, trolls... it's going to be worse.

Romney vs. Huckabee?  That was nothing.  Romney vs. Mccain?  P'Shaw.   Fred vs Giuliani?  Pleaseeeeee

Romney vs Palin is all about how the hell we fix this mess we're in, and it's just too hot a fire to hope to put out.  It's going to be a debate that completely transforms the GOP.

We are going to be eating out own.  AND This fight is the fight we should have had in 2008, in 2000, in 1996!  The Beltway pragmatic Republicans must see that there are limits to how much game playing we can engage in, for short term power.  They must see that this isn't pragmatic at all, and a party defined by nothing is nothing.

We have to have an effective and somewhat consistent opposition to progressiveness, or we are fucked.  And people see this chance now, not only in Palin but in the nature of her opponents.  I don't think anyone can limit how ugly and personal this fight will be.

Buy stock in popcorn.

153 Palin is not ready for the Presidency because she has, apparently, too little executive experience, but Christie would be just fine even though he would have the same amount of executive experience as she...

Well, I'm not convinced he's ready today but one distinction I'd make is Palin was the governor, for awhile, of a small (by population and size of government) red state, where as Christie is the governor of a large (by population/budget) blue state.

Not all governorships and accomplishments are equal.

But less than a year in, I'm not convince CC is ready. Of course '12 is two more years away.....

154 ...that's right guys, do the DNC's work for it by ripping each other to shreds. Bah.

155 Wasn't Christie a District Atty?  Don't they run an office full of lawyers? 

Posted by: Y-not at July 16, 2010 12:57 PM (O627A)

Heh, dunno, is that the same thing as executive experience?

156 "Wasn't Christie a District Atty?  Don't they run an office full of lawyers? 

Posted by: Y-not at July 16, 2010 12:57 PM (O627A)

You realize Palin was an executive before being governor, too, right?

Though I like Christie more than Palin, I think yours is not the best argument.

157

Sock off

 

158

But she deserves our support because she's always been loyal to us.

Huh?

I guess you need to clarify what you mean by 'support'. I'll support her in the sense that I'll tell  libs that she's better than anyone they have to offer. But that's as far as my courtesy extends.

I do not thinks she has the mental wherewithall to handle the office of the Presidency (if she's going that route) and it's to the point that I turn off Fox when she's on. So why again  does she deserve my support? Because I'm conservative?

Fuck that. I give my support to Liz Cheney if I'm forced to support a woman.

What a fun game ya'll have created here.

This may be the dumbest argument I've heard to date from the Palinistas. With all due respect, on your best days, some of you sound overly defensive and obnoxious.

 

159 "I agree. Palin isnt stupid .. but the damage is done..."
Timbo, if you think the damage is done, then wake up and see that Palin is still competitive with the damage done.

And Romney's damage is yet to be done to him.

Mccain wasn't good enough for the MSM.  Romney won't be.

160 I think Romney only spoke out in her defense because he realized he couldn't get away with these chickenshit attacks by his staff that he has tacitedly supported for years. He's still an a-hole.

161 I know drew, I'm not knocking Christie, just trying to illustrate how the logic in Palin discussions tend to appear to me.

162

Yeah, I'm sure all those SC Republican base voters who moved Haley from last place to first after the Palin endorsement agree with you that she has gotten dumber.

Posted by: Vic at July 16, 2010 12:46 PM (/jbAw)

SC will vote Republican no matter who runs.  In order for Palin to win the Presidency, she will have to win Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, etc.  I think lacyunderalls' thinking is not that far from those in the states Palin has to win.

163

"Comedien" Kathy Griffin called his daughter sluts.

Classy.

 

Posted by: Rahm I. Emanuel (the at July 16, 2010 12:55 PM (pr+up)

--Ahhhhhh, that explains the lame photoshop at C&L last night.

Speaking of attention-whoring "reality" shows . . .

164 There are clearly misogynist elements here at ace. We call on the movement's leaders to repudiate bigotry.  You must stand against the movement's attempt to push our country back to the pre-women's rights era.

You must support the First Female President.

165

_{some of you sound overly defensive and obnoxious.}

Unlike a Pit-Bull - we don't wear lipstick!

166 161 it's to the point that I turn off Fox when she's on.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 01:02 PM (pLTLS)

What is this Fox of which you speak?

167 Yes there are.  The difference is between climbing Pikes Peak via the road to the top vs. Mt. Everest weighed down by thousand pound weights.

I dunno. I sincerely think he's going to be beatable by whoever runs against him (discounting the usual lib voter fraud and newfound intimidation, etc). It'll seem like a fight, but in the end it'll probably be more like climbing a little ramp. Obama's name is going to be muddier than Bush's in '08 by the time 2012 rolls around.

168 Honestly, we should probably call a moratorium on Palin discussions.

Posted by: Robert at July 16, 2010 12:55 PM (S8TF5)

Right there with you.  We have MUCH more important things to worry about now.  There is an election coming up that will determine our fate.  The R's need to have the ability to stop any more statist shit that Sir Shanksalot tries to shove down the collective throat of America.  We can start bitching about potential candidates once the new congress gets sworn in January 2011!

169 Back to basics.  Here is what Halperin wrote yesterday:

Still, few express much regard for Palin's ultimate chances. One adviser to Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, and, by traditional standards, the putative 2012 frontrunner, says of Palin, "She's not a serious human being." Another Romney intimate warns, "If she's standing up there in a debate and the answers are more than 15 seconds long, she's in trouble."  LINK

To which Romney replies:

Anonymous numbskulls. SheÂ’s proven her smarts; theyÂ’ve disproven theirs.

A "pretty strong defense of Palin"?  Laughable

1) Mitt does not refer directly to the Halperin piece or to the quotes in the TIME article.  A "pretty strong defense" requires a bit more specificity than some vague inference.   And Mitt's "defense" via Twitter?.  At least Sarah Palin honored the president by using the term  "death panels" in a Facebook post.

2)  Apparently Mitt knows that the quotes are legit because no one denounces one's own "numbskulls" over quotes that were never made.  Soo...

3) Mitt has an idiot adviser who is still on the payroll and whom Mitt claims is anonymous.
 

170

Romney allowed the comments by "anonymous" people until they backfired.  Forced into defending Palin he failed to fire the aides in question even though it appears they have done this before.  Pretty lame for a presidential hopeful (kind of Democrat-like).

If Bristol Palin and the troglodyte get a reality show then I`m afraid that it could cripple Sarah and her chances at the presidency.  Not so much because Bristol would do so something cringeworthy but rather, the narrative and direction/situations of the show would be put into the hands of the showbiz types that hate Sarah with a passion that is kind of scary.  They could manufacture situations that would cast Bristol (and by extension, her mom) in a bad light. 

171 (It also benefits Palin, in that it affirms her "smarts," and that's good, but I am a little troubled that a major candidate needs affirmation on that score.)

What the hell?

A ridiculous meta-meta-spin no one but a Romney-smitten chump could come up with, and no one could possibly believe, "troubles" you—about Palin?

"Seems desperate to me."

And also kinda gay.

172 Serious question for Palin supporters....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?

173

McCain=sun block salesman _{(too much?)}

Fred Thompson=Viagra salesman

Guilianni=speech therapy saleman

 

174 Bristol is proof that God gives men daughters to test the limits of their patience.

175

We went through this kind of crap Romney's team just pulled with the McCain campaign and it turned out badly. It hurt the party not just Palin. Before that we went through it with assholes Bush hired and again it ended badly.

If this kind of crap continues I won't support Romney even if he wins the primary. Romney and anyone else running needs to be able to show they can hire campaign aids that are above this kind of petty crap. If they can't it will erupt again a month before the election and it's just not worth my time or money to support that crap.

176 "Both Romney and Palin quit.  One of them was honest about it.
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 12:48 PM (dUOK+)

I just want to thank you for illustrating my point better than I ever could have.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 12:54 PM (X/Lqh)"

You're welcome, though I'm not clear on what you mean.  MA wasn't run correctly after Romney decided (overtly) to run for President, and the people were sour on this.  He was a failure of a Governor and would not have won reelection.  He kept the title and the pay, but he didn't maintain his responsibility.  Running a state is hard work and he didn't do this work and it had a real effect.

Palin also quit, and I could belabor with the explanation, but suffice to say I don't think it's as bad.   I believe she had 60% approval, too.  There's the rub: she's a pretty competent leader and Romney is not.  And the reason is that Palin has a core principle for reform and Romney does not.

177

_{Posted by: Vic at July 16, 2010 12:46 PM (/jbAw)}

I am sure that the fundamentally sound attacks on Niki Haley had nothing to do with the concurrent bump she received following Palin's endorsement. /Sarc

Folks / Knotts 2012 

 Governor Makers to Lead Us!!

178 Frankly, what conservatives like Palin, Christie, et al need to do is emulate Reagan's example. He spent something like 15 years doing the speech circuit, learning the issues, and in general tried to improve himself. It paid off.

What is unfortunate for us is that noone's been doing that for our past 15 years, so we have a field that is too shallow. Those like Palin and Christie are at about the stage Reagan was at, say during the Goldwater campaign. This is why I'm worried.

179 >>And Romney's damage is yet to be done to him. Were you sleeping during the 2008 election? Romney got hammered right and left, up and down. It's ine if you don't like Romney but to say he didn't get hammered and his record twisted just like every other politicians get twisted is silly. Palin was in the race for 2 months and actually got very little negative press for most of that time because nobody knew who the hell she was. Most of the hits she has taken have come post election.

180 "Romney and anyone else running needs to be able to show they can hire campaign aids that are above this kind of petty crap."

If winning wasn't everything to you, why would you support Mitt Romney?

This is the fundamental reason his staff have been like this since 2006.  Palin just brings it out a little more obviously.

Mitt supporters always eventually admit 'I just really need us to win... we must beat Obama'.  I admit, we do need to beat Obama, and I understand these folks.  But Palin supporters have something more.

You are not going to see flip flop candidates get the kind of patriotic staff the beltway calls naive and unprofessional and unrealistic for their insistence on a core.

181 175 Serious question for Palin supporters....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:07 PM (X/Lqh)

I thought it was kinda hoakey myself. 

 

182 Mccain wasn't good enough for the MSM.  Romney won't be.

Agree; McCain was the MFM's darling right up until winning the nomination then they shit on him every day. Romney would be the same way. Take note how many times Fox has Romney on. They are pushing him hard.

So yes, the MFM trashes Palin every day because they ARE scared of her.

But yes, let's let the MFM pick our candidate for us again. After all, only McCain can beat Hillary.

183 When did being a pussy become cool?

/ ducks

184 Timbo, if you think the damage is done, then wake up and see that Palin is still competitive with the damage done.
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 01:03 PM (dUOK+)


yeah.. I can see that. 

I know the latest poll says she is at 46 and Obama 46..    I just dont know if the undecideds would swing her way or keep they guy they already know.
Would they go with the guy already there.. or the woman who they think said she can see Alaska from her house and her daughter has a reality show.

185 Palin was in the race for 2 months and actually got very little negative press for most of that time because nobody knew who the hell she was. Most of the hits she has taken have come post election.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 01:10 PM (VW9/y)

That's the most ridiculous statement I have seen on here in awhile.

186 I don't understand why things cannot be discussed in a less emotional, less superlative manner.


Are you trying to say "She is not a serious human being" or "If she’s standing up there in a debate and the answers are more than 15 seconds long, she’s in trouble.” is reasoned, intellectual debate?


RRRREEEEAAAALLLLYYYY ace?

I'd say Mitt Romney's advisors own type of discussion is about as emotional and in highly superlative manner as when Mitt Romeny raised his 'YES' hand heil to AL Gore Global Warming Fraud during the 2008 New Hampshire debates.

187

Heh, dunno, is that the same thing as executive experience?

Well, I define an executive as someone who is ultimately responsible for choosing directions, solely responsible for major decisions, managing staff, and budgets.  (In contrast to a legislator or, say, a professor... wonder why I thought of that last one!)

My point was not to say that Christie was superior to Palin, but just to point out that he didn't come from out of nowhere and that he did actually have significant prior executive experience.  And, based on a quick reading, he had great results. 

And I agree with ace's (?) point that there's a big difference between what Christie seems to be on track to accomplishing - namely, turning around a leviathan of a blue state - and what Palin accomplished.  And I like Palin.  But Christie, if he succeeds, is climbing a much bigger mountain. 

And I think being a U.S. States Atty in New Jersey is significantly more relevant experience than being the Chair of Alaska's Oil and Gas Commission.  This is what the commission is (per wiki): 

The structure of the membership has changed throughout the years, though it has consistently been a three-person Commission.

Under the current structure, adopted in 1979, one member must be a registered petroleum engineer, one member must be a registered geologist, and one member must represent the public at large (i.e., a citizen in neither of the two categories listed above).

188 You're welcome, though I'm not clear on what you mean.
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 01:07 PM (dUOK+)

I mean your original comment and your follow up are perfect examples of the Palin Can Do No Wrong mentality. Seriously, they should be in museums!

Her actual quitting is good, brilliant!

Mitt's alleged quitting (which exists only in your mind), is bad.

I understand you don't see the problem with this. You're a committed partisan of one candidate over the other. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is there aren't enough of you and the rest of us (who you're candidate will need at some point) are left shaking our heads wondering how we can get on board with something so nonsensical (to us).

189 JackStraw, Huckabee made some really nasty attacks on Romney, but they were ultimately stupid as fucking hell.

I do think Obama would have something a little more persuasive in store for him.

For one thing, Romney was a terrible governor and his state didn't want him by the time he finished his term (years after he decided he was running for president as a full time job).

Palin took vicious hits before November 2008.  I'm surprised anyone would say otherwise.  Regardless, she's taken them by now and she's competitive.  Romney has yet to really take them from the MSM.  He is the favored candidate much as Mccain was.

190

SC will vote Republican no matter who runs.  In order for Palin to win the Presidency, she will have to win Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, etc.  I think lacyunderalls' thinking is not that far from those in the states Palin has to win.

Posted by: tinkerbella at July 16, 2010 01:03 PM (Y4jFR)

That movement in the polls was between the Republicans running in the primary, not Republican vs Dem. So there is no comparison.

191 Please tell me no one seriously thinks Palin could be President.  right?  Right?

192 Caribou Snuggies - buy one for your friends

Big enough to share with Drew and ace

193 You can tell a serious person by their underwear.

194

Fuck that. I give my support to Liz Cheney if I'm forced to support a woman.

Forced?

Okay, I'm done.

195 "The problem is there aren't enough of you and the rest of us (who you're candidate will need at some point) are left shaking our heads wondering how we can get on board with something so nonsensical (to us).

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:13 PM (X/Lqh)
"

Drew, there are enough of us.  Trust me.  LOL.  It's going to be a little more clear to you in 2012, but there's a reason Palin has 75% favor-ability with GOP primary voters.

And really, I don't think I'm a Palin can do no wrong believer.  I think you're just saying that because the meme out there is that only idiots who don't think would like Palin.  I have criticized her in this very thread and several others, but I think she has this one basic thing: the ability to stand against media and political pressure, that Romney so clearly lacks.

And the case that Palin was not so horrible for quitting has been well made and is pretty thoughtful.  You know it.  There's nothing irrational about this view, and there's a reason Palin ended her term with 60% approval while Romney with 45%.  She's better at this shit than he is.

196

Let us just posit that Palin isn't the nominee,  and that the Obama re-election campaign fails.

What Cabinet Position is Palin most qualified for?

_**Crickets**

197

That being said, I want a GOP candidate that will win in 2012, and I doubt Sarah is that candidate.

I'd tend to agree.  Don't get me wrong, I like Sarah well enough, but me perosnally I'm a bit of a policy wonk.  I want someone who can tell me what their plan is, rather than keep falling back on what are in essence just meaningless political phrases.

I've seen a few interviews with her on Fox, and I think if she's not careful it won't be long before there's a drinking game where you have to chug every time she says "Common sense conservative solutions." 

Ok, it's a great catch phrase, but it doesn't really answer the question of "What do you do with all of the illegal aliens already here in the states?" or any of the other myriad of questions she tries to answer with it.  I think people are tired of generalities.  I know I am.  I want actual ideas, actual answers.  Not catch phrases.

Again, don't get me wrong, I like Sarah well enough and she certainly wouldn't be the most objectional choice out there.  I'm not all that impressed with any of the "front runners" I have to choose from ATM and of all of them out there she's certainly by no means the worse.

But the other thing to consider here is this, while Palin certainly has a lot of people who would be willing to come out and vote for her, she also has a lot of people who will most definately show up *just* to vote against her, people who otherwise might not show up at the polls.

She'll energize the conservative base somewhat, but her effect on the radical moonbat base might well overcome that in just sheer numbers.  Hard to say of course, but no, if it were up to me I'd want someone other than Palin as the next nominee.

 

 

198

What Cabinet Position is Palin most qualified for?

_**Crickets**

Well, I think she'd be a heckuva a lot better as Energy Secretary than Nobel Laureate Chu is. 

199

Palin was in the race for 2 months and actually got very little negative press for most of that time because nobody knew who the hell she was. Most of the hits she has taken have come post election.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 01:10 PM (VW9/y)

Yeah -- nobody mocked her during the election.

200 What Cabinet Position is Palin most qualified for?

Energy Secretary?

201

_**Crickets**

Posted by: garrett at July 16, 2010 01:18 PM (L09+R)

Department of Interior, Energy Secretary, to name a few.

202 Drew, there are enough of us
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 01:16 PM (dUOK+)

Yep, to get the nomination and lose to Obama. Awesome!
(That's at this point, things could change).

And the case that Palin was not so horrible for quitting has been well made and is pretty thoughtful.  You know it. 

I do and find it thoroughly unpersuasive.

203 The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?


'Mama Grizzly' became a necessary element in the nature of the human condition ever since the 'boys in cackle pants' begin aping Hollywood's scripted treatment that she is a 'dumb Wasilla hillbilly hick good just for fucking flaccid porn pricks'.

204

Okay, I'm done.

Yeah, I'm just throwing your own stupid words back in your face.

Support is not deserved. It's earned.

205 "The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:07 PM (X/Lqh)

2008 is when they become cool.

Let's note that Romney used them too, just now, in saying Palin is a silly bitch (I'm paraphrasing).

I guess we're supposed to pretend we're living in a dream world, where Palin is really running against a group of proven leaders with backbone and intelligence.

Let's just close our eyes and pretend Palin, a bona fide successful reformer whose reforms still make a difference in Alaska, is running against Mitt Romney, for the most part, who is a spineless and stupid fuck who reeks of his own filth and failed to improve or reform his state, leaving it pretty shitty.

Let's just pretend that for a second.  In this insane case, I guess Palin actually looks better than a guy who flips, when we're facing a disaster of corruption in DC that will take courage to fight against.

Open your eye.  Welcome to the real world, Neo.

206 I'll give you your other eye back when I'm through with it.

207 Palin ended her term with 60% approval while Romney with 45%.  She's better at this shit than he is.
Posted by: Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant at July 16, 2010 01:16 PM (dUOK+)

Oh missed that part.

Sorry but it's absolute bull.

First, she didn't end her term. She quit while on top. We'll never know how things would have played out if she had to go through a full term. Why? Oh right, she quit.

Again, you're penalizing one candidate for sticking things out and reward your favorite for quitting. It's not convincing to anyone who isn't already on board.

208 The way I see it, only Ryan and Christie seem to be the type to have concrete ideas that they would implement upon assuming the Presidency. Most of the rest of the field don't really seem to have much of a plan for what they would do after being elected. I don't think that is a good thing.

209 There are 3 or 4 big things that make it hard for me to imagine supporting Palin in the primary. 1 of them is her supporters and the arguments the use to boost her.

210 First, she didn't end her term. She quit while on top. We'll never know how things would have played out if she had to go through a full term. Why? Oh right, she quit.

Again, you're penalizing one candidate for sticking things out and reward your favorite for quitting. It's not convincing to anyone who isn't already on board.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:23 PM (X/Lqh)

Palin quit and there is no way to spin it. She will get beat over the head with it regardless of her reasons.

Romney has given his opponets a whole bag full of hammers as well. So has Obama.

211 "Yep, to get the nomination and lose to Obama. Awesome!
(That's at this point, things could change).

And the case that Palin was not so horrible for quitting has been well made and is pretty thoughtful.  You know it. 

I do and find it thoroughly unpersuasive.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:20 PM (X/Lqh)
"

Drew, you realize that Palin is competitive with Obama right now?  So ... I guess I'm thinking you're just out of step with reality.  the Mitt argument is that Palin would get destroyed, of course.  There is no other reason to support Mitt.

So you have to pretend there wasn't a poll yesterday showing Palin is beating Obama without really a major campaign (and while Obama has a major campaign).  Palin probably will be the nominee.  you seem to admit that much.  Can she beat Obama in 2012?  I think she will have a real challenge.  This is the entire basis of Mitt support, but I don't think there is much point to Mitt.

Replace Palin with someone without the cesspool daughter and I'd be delighted.  Get someone who didn't have to resign and I'd be overjoyed.  So long as they are courageous champions of reform.  There are a few.  Ryan, Christie, etc.

Mitt had his chance to reform Mass.  He is not acceptable, and it's not relevant because just look at how he's floundering in the face of a skilled politician.

212 Yeah -- nobody mocked her during the election.
Posted by: Tina Fey

---------------
Yeah.. I hardly noticed any of that.

And I hardly noticed that when she spoke without a teleprompter (sometimes with one) she reminded me of a school girl giving a speech she totally forgot to prepare for.  She cannot string two sentences together without a bunch of "likes" and "ya know's".

God love her for her enthusiasm and what she has done to energize the base.. and for her backing of some of the candidates.  She's a great cheerleader.  But that does not make someone a good President.

213 >>For one thing, Romney was a terrible governor and his state didn't want him by the time he finished his term (years after he decided he was running for president as a full time job). Dude, I live here. He was not a terrible governor. It's really ironic that people who claim to be political junkies don't take the time to understand the facts. Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the Union. Romney was operating with a veto proof legislature that has been owned by the Donks for a generation. And these aren't just Donks, these are hard core liberals. These are the people who give Romney low marks. Why? Because he fought them on issue after issue. I remember last election when some people here were saying Romney was dust because he supported gay marriage. That has to be the dumbest, most wrong headed statement ever. He fought it very publicly and it cost him huge. Ironically, he was loved by a large part of the population when health care reform first passed because that's what this state wanted. You know, federalism. It was up to the legislature to fuck it up by larding it up with all sorts of goodies after the fact. Ultimately, this is a state that will always give high marks to a liberal and hammer anyone who proposes anything even remotely conservative. You do get that this state thinks Ted Kennedy is a god, right? Palin on the other hand comes from a very small state (population wise) that is a hell of a lot more conservative. It's easy to say and do conservative things when a majority of the population supports you, not so much when you are in the minority.

214 What are Romney's core beliefs/positions on the major issues? Anyone know?

215  now here  = no where. See, its not my spelling...its my typing!

Posted by: Mallamutt at July 16, 2010 01:30 PM (OWjjx)

Now just leave out the space between no and where and by jove I think you've got it!

216 Agree; McCain was the MFM's darling right up until winning the nomination then they shit on him every day. Romney would be the same way. Take note how many times Fox has Romney on. They are pushing him hard.

So yes, the MFM trashes Palin every day because they ARE scared of her.

But yes, let's let the MFM pick our candidate for us again. After all, only McCain can beat Hillary.

Posted by: Vic at July 16, 2010 01:11 PM (/jbAw)

I don't disagree with anything in this comment.  Allowing the MFM to dictate our choices got us into this wonderful situation so I'm to the point of supporting whoever they hate the most.

Don't get me wrong; I don't dislike Mitt.  I wish he was running the Repub party instead of the idiot who's pissing everybody off.  I don't think he has the personality to beat the jugeared fuck; maybe that's stupid of me to concentrate on but no dumber than looking at who were the 2 candidates in 2008.

I won't be confident of Repub chances until I see a photo of Steve Schmidt's lifeless corpse.

217

Not a cabinet position, but damn, she would be the most entertaining Press Secretary evah! Well, either her or Laura Ingraham. Or, of course, Megyn Kelly.

Wow.. Megyn Kelly as press secretary...

"Look Mr. Henry, just because you work for CNN doesn't give you the right to come into one of my briefings completely unprepared and asking slanted questions that obfuscate the facts.  Obviously you have no idea what your talking about on this issue"

Lol.. that would just rock. 

218 There are a few.  Ryan, Christie, etc.

Ryan voted for the AGW scam. There is no telling what other liberal positions he has that haven't been aired yet. Christie recently came out in favor of amnesty. Also, it is too early to call on him until he builds a record.

219

Yeah, I'm just throwing your own stupid words back in your face.

This is why you're regarded here as a fucking retard. You come here with nothing. You write nothing. You say nothing. You are a fucking dunce. You have never made a single worthwhile comment at AoS.

Everything you write is crap. You cannot argue; you only bitch and whine and insult.

220

This may be the dumbest argument I've heard to date from the Palinistas. With all due respect, on your best days, some of you sound overly defensive and obnoxious.

 

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 01:02 PM (pLTLS)

 

heh.  pot, meet kettle.   I don't post much, but lurk here a lot, and you're very good at the condescending BS.   

221 The trouble is, I don't consider Ryan to be ready for the presidency. Christie would probably be much better off finishing his term and trying in 2016. Who does that leave?

T-Paw, Daniels? Ehh, they are a little squishy, iirc. And even so, if Christie shouldn't run in 2012, neither should they. That leaves us in a pretty pickle.

222 221: It took you this far in the thread to figure that out. At least I know where this headache comes from. I should stop pounding my head against my desk.

223 It looks like DrewM. is not impressed with Sarah Palin's resignation from the office of Governor of Alaska

That's his opinion.

John McCain crushed Mitt Romney in the race for the 2008 GOP presidential nomination.

And that's a fact.

224 WHY DO YOU TRUST TIME MAGAZINE?  This sounds more like disinformation aimed at making both Romney and Palin look bad.

An anonymous Romney aide? LOL.....

225 "There are 3 or 4 big things that make it hard for me to imagine supporting Palin in the primary. 1 of them is her supporters and the arguments the use to boost her.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:25 PM (X/Lqh)
"

Here's the thing about 'pragmatics'.  They aren't.

Drew took the argument given that Palin quit for her state to have a governor free to govern despite the lawsuits.  He admits he's familiar with it and just doesn't care about the argument, since Romney stayed in office while fucking up his state and certainly failing to enact any real reforms of it.

but then he's telling you to reject Palin because of her supporters.  It's completely irrational and far dumber than the argument he's complaining that I made.  this is what Mitt would be like.  Tell you to reject dumb arguments while making dumber arguments.  You need a core to avoid being this absurd, I think.

I admit, it must be pretty frustrating to not want to see Palin nominated.  She's got so many fans, some very thoughtful, some kinda assholish, all more passionate and sincere and just certain they have picked a good candidate.  Her support and volunteerism is going to be so hard to beat.

while you're coming up with a narrative against her, you also Palin will fail in the general... that we do not have a way to stop her from getting the nomination, and we're pretty fucked.

All I can say to you is that Palin will win in the general election, too.  I don't mind the hard fight... if Palin can be beaten in the primary, my entire concept must be completely wrong anyway.  But just wake up for a second: Palin can win the general.

Drew M condemns Palin for her supporters, but let's remember this logic can easily be reversed.  Palin has nasty haters.  I don't really see that as much of an argument, and I agree with Drew that if Romney wants to make an intelligent argument about Palin's seriousness (not this completely stupid inhumanity argument), that's cool.  But he could be a man about it.

Can Romney beat Obama?  Unlike Palin, I think the powder has been kept dry on him from the left.

226

This is why you're regarded here as a fucking retard. You come here with nothing. You write nothing. You say nothing. You are a fucking dunce. You have never made a single worthwhile comment at AoS.

Everything you write is crap. You cannot argue; you only bitch and whine and insult.

*kisses*

I'll keep all of your super-dooper advice in mind the next time I tell fellow conservatives who they should and shouldn't support.

227 Good point. Which is why I am starting to lean to Haley Barbour.

Didn't he try back in the 90's? Or was that some other white dude?

Thing is, he has bad name recognition outside of the south doesn't he? Otherwise, he could be a good one.

228 There are 3 or 4 big things that make it hard for me to imagine supporting Palin in the primary. 1 of them is her supporters and the arguments the use to boost her.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:25 PM (X/Lqh)

What arguments do you recommend to boost Palin?

You do have some, right?

229

Since Ricky doesn't seemt to have gotten any instruction on how to be a proper Biblical man, let me suggest Todd Palin take him along to the North Slope for a few months' work and learning.

Seriously, I can't think of a better and more convenient mentor.

230 241: Only if Dick Cheney is along on the trip.

231 John McCain crushed Mitt Romney in the race for the 2008 GOP presidential nomination.

McCain really didn't crush anybody. We squeaked by with 30% of the vote in the early races with all the candidates.

The stupid primary rules gave it to him.

That is one of the things we MUST change. We went into the 2008 election with a candidate that 70% of the base either disliked or absolutely hated.

232

heh.  pot, meet kettle.   I don't post much, but lurk here a lot, and you're very good at the condescending BS

Well then throw your hat in the ring, honey. Stop your lurking.

I mean, you didnt' really knock it out of the ballpark here.

 

233 Serious question for Palin supporters....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?

Posted by: DrewM

snarky answer to this loaded question: At the same time that you started beating your wife. If you want to ask a serious question, lose the 'cool' bit and ask why do we think that this phenomenom came about? That way, you don't off sounding emotional or snarky like the Palinistas whom you deride.

speculative answer: when the electorate became 53% women.

Another speculative answer: When the opportunity was seen to capitalize on the holy grail of the first woman President, and all of the built in media passes that it theoretically obtains. (ex: First Black President)

yeat another speculative answer: when someone realized that there may be more to the list of 'hottest Conservative women' than first met the eye (pun intended).

234 243: So did I, to be honest. It sucks being the adults in the room I guess. This is why I ditched Poli Sci as a major. If you have the patience for it, you're better employed as playground monitor.

235 I am still intrigued by a Romney/Palin ticket.  It benefits both because Romney needs some right-right cred; and Palin is too hated to ever get elected President without having the opportunity to work on a national (federal) stage.
An active VPresidency would allow that.  Else,  Secretary of Energy (and if VP, then Sec of Energy, too).

236

How would those numbers break down, exactly? With the support she'd get from the base, Palin could win the general election comfortably by splitting the independent vote.

Meanwhile, if a moderate is the nominee, the base won't be energized and the GOP starts from a disadvantage.

------------

What a crock.  How can I get this through your head?  Independents will not vote for Palin.  You would be lucky to get 20%.

What you would get, however, is every freakin' lefty up off their lazy asses making sure they vote again against Palin.  All the young voters.  All the minorities.  You wanna talk about energizing a base.. nominate Palin and you will see which base is energized.

And how big do you think this GOP "base" is anyway?

Palin vs Obama = 4 more years of Obama.  A Palin nomination sends one signal.. the GOP is not serious about taking back this country.

237 Sarah should have kept her children out of the spotlight and never encouraged her daughter to take up speaking engagements and make easy money.  She should have steered her in the direction of a college education and a normal job.  So Sarah is partly to blame for this.

Posted by: tinkerbella at July 16, 2010 12:47 PM (Y4jFR)

FYI, Bristol is in college, working toward a nursing degree.  She's got her own apt and rents out a room to her bro's GF to help with the rent.  She also works full time and pays all of her expenses.

238 But, in light of the choices, really starting to lean that way.

And his term ends in 2011, just in time I guess. Hope he even wants to try.

239 Or Palin: Government Diet Czar

240 "Palin on the other hand comes from a very small state (population wise) that is a hell of a lot more conservative. It's easy to say and do conservative things when a majority of the population supports you, not so much when you are in the minority.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 01:28 PM (VW9/y)"

Why didn't anyone reform Alaska before?

See, Palin had to take on Republican corruption.  That's why Alaska loved her... she really fucked over the pragmatics in her state simply because they were doing wrong.

I agree, Romney was very limited in what he could do.  He also folded like a table on principles.  It's hard to find any he's been consistent on, and he's on the record that he won't make some of the most essential reforms, such as against Obamacare.

Romney fucked up Mass and they didn't like him.  You lived there, but that's not an argument and it doesn't mean you know much about what it's like there or what Romney could have accomplished.  Fact is, it was very difficult for Palin to make reforms against her party's most powerful people, and it would have been hard for Romney to reform his state... though he didn't and he doesn't deserve any credit for how hard it would have been to do something he didn't even do.

Why Mitt?  Let's pretend Mitt and Palin both could win the general election.  Let's take electability out of it for a second.  What principle do you hold dear that steers you to Mitt over all other GOP contenders?

We all know this is precisely why people stick to Palin despite the taller odds.  Mitt's supporters say it's because Palin supporters are assholes or idiots or thoughtless, but it's because of something that matters and these people deserve some respect.  Fact is: we get NO REFORM unless we get a candidate who can take the heat.

241 2008 Republican Convention delegate count:

McCain : 1563       Romney: 272

242 Palin is clearly white trash.  Maybe a Frum/Noonan ticket would be more palatable?

243

Well then throw your hat in the ring, honey.

Like I said, condescending BS.   You made my point perfectly.

I am done.   You're not worth wasting my time with.

 

244 "It benefits both because Romney needs some right-right cred;"

Yeah, no kidding, this is true

" and Palin is too hated to ever get elected President without having the opportunity"

You don't read the news, much, do you?  Palin can win the general election and would be far worse off being associated with a presidency that failed to reform.

245 Oh, and Huckabee had 282 committed delegates at the 2008 GOP convention, so Mitt came in third.

246 "McCain : 1563       Romney: 272 Posted by: mrp"

Fuck.

And Mccain started the race flat broke, but Romney has 40 million bucks.  What a shitty politican Romney is.  You'd think people would have an argument for him that wasn't "he's more electable!  He had a really hard time as governor, so his record of failure isn't so bad!  it was tooo hard!'

247 What arguments do you recommend to boost Palin?
You do have some, right?
Posted by: TheManWhoSaid at July 16, 2010 01:37 PM (+sBB4)

Nope. Not my job to boost her. I'm not a fan. Not a hatter but I'd say a not very impressed skeptic.

248

Posted by: Just for the record... at July 16, 2010 01:43 PM (W8m8i)

She's still got them BIG Tittehs!

249 *sigh* 

We need better candidates.  I hope some of the folks who say they are not considering running will reconsider when they see how vulnerable Obama is. 

250

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 01:39 PM (R2fpr)

So things we normally deride in Democrats is good because...Palin does it.

Ok.

251 A potential problem for Christie if he runs in 2012, the media will hit him on campaigning while still a governor. That could hurt him with the independents ignoramuses.

252 >>Romney fucked up Mass and they didn't like him. You lived there, but that's not an argument and it doesn't mean you know much about what it's like there or what Romney could have accomplished. You're right, it doesn't mean I know anything. However, you haven't demonstrated you know anything either other than being wrong about Romney's popularity in the state, why that might be, what he could have accomplished and exactly which principles he flip flopped on. So why don't you give me your list of all the things he did wrong that helped you develop your "He Sucks!!!" impression and I will attempt to demonstrate why I do know just a tad about the state I have lived in for over 40 years.

253 laceyunderalls,

You have to admit, you rely on a lot of personal attacks and condescension.

I don't mind.  Fucking have fun with it.  Obviously you're trying to goad out the proof that Palin supporters are deranged.  Doesn't seem to be working, which is an argument in and of itself.  Just note, you're coming across as less reasonable and thoughtful than Palin supporters.

I know, I know, drewm says Palin supporters are turnoff, but note how people like me are willing to say "you have a good point" when you do.  At least some of Palin's detractors in here don't seem to understand the need to be intellectually honest about this kind of thing.

The idea that we must have reform... that this is the most important thing rather than picking the most moderate and electable guy, is not a retarded position.  Even if it were retarded, Palin wouldn't abort it and neither should you.

254 In 2008 I voted for McCain/Palin because I loved Palin, and I liked McCain at least 50% of the time. The next time I vote for Palin it will be out of sheer righteous fury against the vultures who gave the Boy King a pass for a year and a half, but rushed to Alaska en masse to rummage through trash cans. Everything that could be skewed against Palin was skewed. Everything that could be skewed for Obama was skewed. To hell with them. To borrow a phrase from Wendy Testaburger: fuck the media. Fuck them right in the ear.

255 Good point. Which is why I am starting to lean to Haley Barbour.
Posted by: Mallamutt at July 16, 2010 01:34 PM (OWjjx)

Me too.

And 2nd look at Bobby Jindal!

256

I am done.   You're not worth wasting my time with.

Oh noes! But your lurking....it's so beneficial!

Yes, Palinstas bring out the best in me indeed. /s

257 The number of delegates at the Republican convention does not reflect the overall support. As I said, the stupid rules gave him those delegates, not the primary voters.

258

So things we normally deride in Democrats is good because...Palin does it.

Ok.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:49 PM (X/Lqh)

I don't understand your point Drew. Are you saying that republicans shouldn't reach out to women? How about blacks or Mexicans? Do you really believe that politics is one size fits all?

I don't.

259 @251
FYI, Bristol is in college, working toward a nursing degree. 

Wasn't the Harper's interview this spring?  In that she says that she imagined she would be in college, but she doesn't say she is in college.

If she has the resources to purchase a $270K townhouse, wouldn't a better plan for Tripp have been for her to stay near her parents and attend school instead of working full-time? 

260 "you haven't demonstrated you know anything either other than being wrong about Romney's popularity in the state, why that might be,"

Are you saying Romney wasn't polling 45% approval?  You're being kinda vague about it.

My 'he sucks' impression is pretty fucking thoughtful, jackstraw, and you know it.  Stop pretending all Palin supporters are braindead and drooling.  We need a reformer who has the balls to stand up to intense pressure.

I have tried to find an example of Mitt doing this.  I was trying to convince people to support him when Mccain kicked his ass from one end of the street to the other. 

If you have some kind of example that compares to the pressure Palin can take, I want to know.  I want to know if I and the majority of the GOP are completely wrong. 

261

Possible name for Bristol and Levi's reality show ?

Babydaddy Knows... Best?

262 Bobby Jindal is in the same camp as T-Paw and Daniels for me. He should probably skip 2012 unless we are truly desperate.

All this is, of course, ignoring GOP incompetence ala 2008.

263

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 01:39 PM (R2fpr)

So things we normally deride in Democrats is good because...Palin does it.

Ok.

Posted by: DrewM.

I was referring to the way that you phrased your question, not on the subject of identity politics itself. The 'when did it become cool' bit is a sneer, not a question. Instead of considering that, you then decided to intimate that Palin is doing things that Democrats have done, and that I'm somehow in favor of it.

Since you were complaining about the lack of rational consideration where 'Palinistas' were concerned, your posts here are ironic.

 

264

Just note, you're coming across as less reasonable and thoughtful than Palin supporters.

Why's that?

Because I ask that (a) I ask they hold Palin to the same standard they do Obama and (b) I said I was once a supporter but have stated that she's turned me off as of late.

For Palinista's there seemt to be three set of rules

1. One for Dems

2. One for all conservatives that aren't named Palin, and

3. One for Palin (which means there are no rules and she can do no wrong).

Winning strategy indeed.

 

265 278 Bobby Jindal is in the same camp as T-Paw and Daniels for me. He should probably skip 2012 unless we are truly desperate.

I think we are truly desperate.

I have reservations about all three, but I'd at least like to have the option to consider a viable candidate. 

266

Ok, well since everyone else has, let me weigh in..

Romney : Not a big fan.  I don't think he's as much of a RINO as McCain, but there is something about Romney I've just never liked.  He just strikes me as a guy that will say whatever it is he thinks people want to hear.  Had enough of that.  Romney just strikes me as being far too much a politician and far to little of a statesman.  Again, mostly just gut reaction here, but I think we've already got way too much of the first, and not nearly enough of the second, so me, I'll pass on Romney.

Huckabee : Seriously, irritates the crap out of me.  I hate that "lets all get along" crap.  Ok, I try to be a reasonable guy, and get along with people when I can, but I don't generally bend over backwards to try to accomodate people who spit all over me every chance they get.  That's exactly the sort of attitude that's gotten us where we are today as a nation.  A little intolerance can go a very long way sometimes, and people should be intolerant.  They shouldn't tolerate stupidity, laziness, etc..

Palin : One of the least objectionable of the front runners I think, but have serious doubts about her viability.  And, like I said, I'm a policy wonk.  I want candidates that express detailed ideas, not ones who lead with generalities and slogans.  Sadly though generalities and slogans seem to rule the day anymore, so who knows.

Newt : Ok, love the Newster, I do - but seriously, can't we find a guy that's younger than Methuselah?  Wouldn't that be a nice change of pace?  Also, Newt's got one major drawback above all others in my mind, he's a Republican first, and a Conservative second.  I want someone who's the other way around.

McCain : Definately one to put in the "Not worth the gunpowder it would take to blow him straight to hell category". 

So yes, I'm with Mallamut (and I'm sure many others on this) when I say I'd much rather see a new crop of hopefuls rather than just the same folks as last time recycled.  Time for some new blood.  Republicans need to realize that they need to return to their conservative roots, and soon.

We're not looking for Democrat-lite here... we want a total change in direction, not some watered down semi liberal agenda.  Hopefully the party gets the message.

 

267 "And 2nd look at Bobby Jindal!

Posted by: DrewM."

He made a terrible first impression, but he is looking a lot better in the face of pressure.  I have some fears that he won't be a real reformer, but he has the ability to make a great case, since there is tremendous corruption needing reform in his state.

I think Jindal could be a great candidate. We'll see.

Just want to note that anyone promoting him should be careful not to complain that Palin isn't ready for prime time.  They both have said things inartfully as hell.

I'm glad to see DrewM doesn't have a problem with this.  He's right.

268 For one thing, Romney was a terrible governor and his state didn't want him by the time he finished his term (years after he decided he was running for president as a full time job).

I don't know how true this statement is, but I'd LOVE to see how Romney would fair in polls today. Patrick is, obviously, going down, and I suspect people in MA miss Mitt.

269 "

Why's that?

Because I ask that (a) I ask they hold Palin to the same standard they do Obama and (b) I said I was once a supporter but have stated that she's turned me off as of late.

For Palinista's there seemt to be three set of rules

1. One for Dems

2. One for all conservatives that aren't named Palin, and

3. One for Palin (which means there are no rules and she can do no wrong).

Winning strategy indeed.

 

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 01:56 PM (pLTLS)"

Oh come on.

You set out to condescend and insult people in this thread.  Don't be a fucking liar.  Nothing worse than a fucking liar.  You know what I'm referring to and it's not that you're 'just asking questions!!!!!' 

The idea that all Palin supporters think she can do no wrong is a blatant and pretty damn stupid lie, too.  Just look at me, happy to admit where she has faults.  You are lying about the Palin supporters in this thread.  Why?

Just give us a case for Romney or just admit he's an inferior candidate.  I think there are a few you can support over Palin for great reasons.  I just ask that they have a demonstrated capacity to take pressure and reform government towards a limited government.

270 "I don't know how true this statement is, but I'd LOVE to see how Romney would fair in polls today. Patrick is, obviously, going down, and I suspect people in MA miss Mitt.
Posted by: ParisParamus"

OK, you probably have a good point here.  I'd like to see this too.

271

_{Department of Interior, Energy Secretary, to name a few.}

That's a couple.  I'll give you Interior. Being Gov. of Alaska certainly earns it.  (Isn't/Wasn't that the Dept of Indian Affairs as well?  If they are seperate now, that is another she's actually qualified for.)  But that is all I'll concede.

Palin Support arguments tend to be similar in composition; 

Palin as Energy Secretary would be better than Chu.

Palin as VP would be better than Biden.

Palin as President would be better than Obama.

Palin is clearly better than the Lowest Common Denominator.  I remain to be convinced that she is the Ideal.

 

 

272

Yes, Palinstas bring out the best in me indeed. /s

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 01:52 PM (pLTLS)

It's not just the Palinistas.   You do it all the time.   Damn near everyday about something or someone.

What's the matter, sweetie, a little menopausal?   Is that what makes you so crabby all the time? 

273 The thing that probably should be stressed is that aside from Haley Barbour, the rest of the field are pretty green at the executive stuff, so we will need to temper our expectations.

274 Conservative <> GOP

Yes, a majority of Americans consider themselves "conservative".  If that is the case, why did Obama win in 2008?  Because a lot of those so-called "conservative" voters were snookered into thinking Obama was a moderate and would keep his promise of bipartisan inclusion.  You cannot count those people in your "base".

A lot of us "conservatives" do not consider ourselves "Republicans" any longer.  While we will likely vote Republican mostly, don't count on it.  We may not vote for a Dem, but we may just not show up at all.

I was one of Palin's biggest supporters.. even moreso on the night of the convention.  It all went downhill from there.  My low point was her debate with Biden.  At that point I knew it was lost.  It was the most embarassing, excruciating hour I have spent in a long time.

If the GOP wants my vote they will have to earn it by nominating a serious contender.. someone who can speak intelligently about the issues of the day and not just in prepared sound bites.

Paul Ryan is someone that comes to mind.. or a Romney/Ryan ticket would be even better.

275

Palin is clearly better than the Lowest Common Denominator.  I remain to be convinced that she is the Ideal.

 Posted by: garrett at July 16, 2010 02:01 PM

--

You put out the question as if there was no slot in the cabinet that Palin could fill.  I merely pointed out that having someone with oil & gas commission experience and former governor (albeit briefly) from an energy-rich state would make her qualified.  And certainly more qualified than a professor whose expertise is basically molecular biophysics. 

You didn't ask who the ideal candidate was for various cabinet positions. 

276 Deerstalker chap has a point:

The next time I vote for Palin it will be out of sheer righteous fury against the vultures who gave the Boy King a pass for a year and a half, but rushed to Alaska en masse to rummage through trash cans

There's something to this.  It's not a rationale for Palin being a better president, but it's going to drastically improve her electability, her operation, her funding, and Obama's ability to make an attack work for him.

Palin is a proxy for the renewed culture war.  I don't expect some of the nastier people in here, who pretend Palin support is brainless and idiotic, to recognize just how powerful this is: but if you give people something juicy to fight for, they fight for it.

It's not everything, but it's something and I think it will turn out to be very powerful.

277 I'll be running in 2012...just in case you forgot.

Posted by: Alan Keyes at July 16, 2010 02:03 PM (OWjjx)

So Keyes/Greene in 2012?  Now that would be a fun ticket.. lol

278 You don't read the news, much, do you?  Palin can win the general election and would be far worse off being associated with a presidency that failed to reform.

That might, might be true in 2020, but you are on drugs if you think Sarah Palin can beat Obamao in 2012 (and certainly 2010).  Look carefully at those poll numbers.  The polls are going in the right direction (for everyone but Obamao), but that's just a relative thing.  Neither Palin nor Huckabee will ever get to be President in 2012  Reason:  BLUE STATES.

279

Palin as Energy Secretary would be better than Chu.

Palin as VP would be better than Biden.

Palin as President would be better than Obama.

Palin is clearly better than the Lowest Common Denominator.  I remain to be convinced that she is the Ideal.

 

 

Posted by: garrett at July 16, 2010 02:01 PM (L09+R)

I'm not a rabid Palin supporter, I like her and am willing to listen to what she has to say.

Palin as energy secretary would be better than anyone in my opinion. I really can't think of anyone who would be better. I voted for her for VP and I am not sure who out there would make a better one.

280 Legendary Former Rapist Kobe Bryant

Gee, what a great way to establish credibility.  DUH.

281

286  Look , I'm not a Romney fangirl. And I never said I was. Some douche said I was a supporter of Romneycare because I don't like Palin. Way to get from A to B by taking the long route.

This is the problem with rabid Palin supporters. Not only is she above criticism; you'll (in a general sense) just make up shit to support a narrative that simply isn't there.

I suggest you get some fresh air, dood (or 'ette). And that the end of the day we're on the same side (Although I don't take kindly to anyone telling me who I should support. That got my ire).

282

You put out the question as if there was no slot in the cabinet that Palin could fill.  I merely pointed out that having someone with oil & gas commission experience and former governor (albeit briefly) from an energy-rich state would make her qualified.  And certainly more qualified than a professor whose expertise is basically molecular biophysics. 

You didn't ask who the ideal candidate was for various cabinet positions. 

Well, consider my recommondation for you to become Obama's official Mind Reading and Aura Analysis Czar withdrawn there Y-not..

Lol..

283

 _{but if you give people something juicy to fight for, they fight for it.}

 

284 The thing that probably should be stressed is that aside from Haley Barbour, the rest of the field are pretty green at the executive stuff, so we will need to temper our expectations.

Haley Barbour did come across good in the aftermath of Katrina despite the efforts of the press so he does have name recognition. He was chairman of the RNC and much much better than the current one.

I think he would be worth a look. Right now he does have cred with conservatives but it would be nice to look at his record on all the issues. 

285 Well, it's a delightful 86 and rising this morning on the way to another 100 degree day I expect.  Time to get off-thread and do some chores so I can earn some cold beers this afternoon! 

Take care folks.

286

289  Didn't you say you weren't going to waste anymore time with me honey bunny?

 

 

287 @104 Because, like it or not (and you seem unwilling to see it), it goes towards her parenting, her credibility, her everything. The bar is higher for her. Sorry, I didn't make the rules. I just understand them a bit better than you apparently.


Exactly right.  The rules are different for her.  Like I tell my kids - it may not be fair but it is the way it is.  Stop banging your head against the brick wall of "it's not fair" and accept reality.

288 Y-not, how many years did Romney spend in office?

Seems he held a single office and was mediocre at best, spending most of his term overtly campaigning for President, much of it outside his state.

He's got 2 years executive experience for which he was paid with 4 years salary.

Palin ran for some piddly little office, did great and went up, and up, and up.  She's continued today to show some policy leadership.  She actually built and ran a real business she didn't inherit, she served in various roles and was pretty damn consistent in making reforms.

Does she have what I'd call a strong executive resume?  Not really.  But for some reason, Romney's single term, which he could not have been reelected to and he spent much of it not actually doing, is held up as better.  I don't get it.

Alaska is a small state, but there were some very difficult deals and reforms occurring.  They worked out very well under smart leadership.  Mass also had some big reforms, specifically Romneycare, which I realize he doesn't take blame for... but it didn't work.  Maybe it's not his fault it didn't work, but I can't credit him for its success the way I can credit Palin for successes in various levels of government.

It's a fucking shame we don't have more governors with more experience.  Palin is a contender because we have a weak bench in this respect.  Let's hope Christie continues to show brilliance.

289

Look , I'm not a Romney fangirl.

Hmm.. makes one wonder what the uniforms would look like..

Some douche said I was a supporter of Romneycare because I don't like Palin. Way to get from A to B by taking the long route.

There you go, expecting logic and common sense in a blog response again.. lol.. silly rabbit.

This is the problem with rabid Palin supporters.

I'm assuming you mean other than the obvious fact that they have rabies?

Although I don't take kindly to anyone telling me who I should support.

No, it's not like that at all.. well, as long as you support whoever your told to support.  Otherwise we will *flame* you!  Lol.. silly, isn't it?

 

290 >>Are you saying Romney wasn't polling 45% approval? You're being kinda vague about it. In a state where Dems outnumber Reps by almost 2 to 1, how is this surprising? In fact, you should be comforted by this because it demonstrates how often he was fighting the Dem majority. If Romney had polled well that would mean that he was favored by a majority of very liberal Dems. In MA, Dems hold approximately a 30 point voter majority. In Alaska, the Republican hold about a 15 point margin. The argument that somehow proves this mean Romney was a failure and Palin a success when she quit because she had (at the time, not now) a more positive rating from her in state voters isn't very compelling. >>My 'he sucks' impression is pretty fucking thoughtful, jackstraw, and you know it. Stop pretending all Palin supporters are braindead and drooling. We need a reformer who has the balls to stand up to intense pressure. No, I don't. I'm sure you don't like Romney but you haven't given a single real reason why. As others have noted, this is a trend with Palin supporters. They tend to be very rabid in their support, attack anyone who doesn't agree but without a trace of irony have no problem attacking viciously any other Republican candidate no matter how wrong headed the charges. You know what, I wouldn't use Palin's flip flop over to the McCain pro-amnesty position as a good example of her standing up on her principles. Nor her original attempt to get federal money for the bridge to nowhere only to flip on it once she went on a national ticket. We can play that gotcha game endlessly. No politician is perfect and they often do things that are politically expedient. You are free to support Palin and not like Romney. No sweat of my nuts. But it would help you be more persuasive in your analysis of why some of us should consider Palin if you had better facts.

291

It's long been my opinion that Bristol's behavior reflected poorly upon her parents.  She's an unwed teenage mother and her parents hold a certain amount of responsibility in that regard.

Along the same vein: Bristol's out now, she's over 18 and living by herself, and if her parents don't cut her a$$ off from the family for getting involved in Levi's douchebaggery again then the Palins will join the ranks of the Dumbest Parents Of The World.  As a child, they were responsible for taking care of her.  As an adult she's on her own, and her parents must hold her responsible and kick her to the curb, otherwise she will continue to drag them to Hell with her.

Levi HAS NOT changed.  As lovely and romantic as we all want to believe in "redemption being brought about by love," it's a fraud.  So many women hopelessly want to change the Bad Boy, but they can't.  This illusion is why too many women get caught in horrendous relationships.

It's interesting to note that the same type of men who are bewildered by a woman who sticks with a douchebag now suddenly want to believe Levi has changed.  He hasn't.  He won't.  Oh, maybe in 20 years he'll make better choices, but NO ONE changes that fast.  No one, ever.

Of course, no one would care but for Palin's potential.  Personally, I've never thought of her as Presidential material and nothing is going to change that.  She's no Thatcher.  I also have yet to see any R candidate that inspires me, except for maybe Christie and he's flawed.  He's not as flawed as Palin, though, who preaches supporting actual conservatives while she backs McCain for re-election.  Christie stands for his positions but clearly, when push comes to shove, Palin won't in favor of debt-paying.

And one more thing: this "momma grizzly" stuff truly sickens me.  Enough with the gender politics.  I don't vote with my sex organs nor do I expect my leaders to think with theirs.

292 "Stop banging your head against the brick wall of "it's not fair" and accept reality.

Posted by: marinemom at July 16, 2010 02:11 PM (fTykc)"

What if the reality is that we have considered this and it's been deducted from her score, but she's still doing well.  After all, she's competitive for the general after this issue has been loudly discussed.

I don't know if it's fair or not.  I just know it's not making her uncompetitive.

293 The thing about the current crop of governors is that they will all have to campaign while in office, so if we are worried that Palin will be hit with the quitter theme, they will too. Haley Barbour can avoid this, which a plus for him, but like Vic, I will need to know more about him.

294

_{Palin as energy secretary would be better than anyone in my opinion. I really can't think of anyone who would be better. I voted for her for VP and I am not sure who out there would make a better one}

Anyone?  Really...in the pantheon of Humanity, there is not a more fitting candidate for Energy Secretary?

You voted for McCain for his choice in VP?

...and not against Obama/Biden?

 

 

295 Did someone really write that Alaska is a small state?

296 "But it would help you be more persuasive in your analysis of why some of us should consider Palin if you had better facts.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 02:13 PM (VW9/y)"

LOL, you meant that analysis that has Palin beating the living hell out of Romney in the primary?

OK.

I'm game.  It's not really up to me to promote Palin.  I'm more anti Romney than Pro Palin.  I've repeatedly said there are candidates who I like more than Palin in this and many other threads, too, but I guess it's easier to just dismiss me.

I've given an argument, though.  Palin can take pressure.  She faced tons when reforming her state, making difficult deals, taking on oil companies in justifiable ways, cutting spending, etc.

I don't think Mitt can do that, and that's why you see Palin being elected to higher and higher officers, starting from complete obscurity, yet you see Romney buy one office and then try to buy higher offices but fail... because of his record.

There's a reason Romney lost to Mccain.  That wasn't just some accident.  It sucked, and I wish Mitt had won, but it happened because he's a poor politician and a worse leader.

297 population-wise, Alaska is pretty small.  not so much geographically.

298 garrett, who do you think should be the GOP nominee?  What's the positive case for them?

299 Fight for me

300 2008 Republican Convention delegate count:

McCain : 1563       Romney: 272 

Posted by: mrp at July 16, 2010 01:43 PM (HjPtV)

You missed a number.  On a scale of 1 to 10, MRP's understanding of history or how the primary process works, ZERO.

Romney had withdrawn by that point, he and Huckabee were splitting the conservative vote in most primaries resulting in McCain squeeking by as the front runner.  Do some research next time retard.  It will save you a whole ton of embarrasment later on.  Most republicans didn't want McCain, didn't like McCain.  He got the nomination because Huckabee and Romney split the McCain opposition vote and most states use a winner take all system in the primaries when it comes to delegates.

301 Y-Not--Palins live in Wasilla.  College and work may be someplace else.  Remember the geography and distances and travel difficulties in Alaska.

302 McCain also had the support of the MSM during the primaries because he was the Republican they wanted.

303

_{Posted by: Y-not at July 16, 2010 02:05 PM (O627A)}

The qualifications you list for Palin would be equally employed for Big Janet Napolitano, no?

I was pointing out that among the lower offices of the Executive Branch Sarah Palin barely Qualifies for 2-3 of the 15 Secretary Seats.  Maybe she's qualified for a lesser Cabinet Position...

Leader of the Free World? C'mon.

Your arguments do little to instill confidence in me that she is qualified to choose the people to fill ALL of those seats and run the country.

We ARE talking about Ideals when we seek our Primary Candidates.  That is a simple fact.

 

 

 

304 Mitt must have siphoned off some of the back-stabbing dirtbags from the McCain Team and put them on the payroll.

Heads should roll for this. He has the opportunity to show leadership and integrity. Very public firings would show that he will not stand for dirty bullshit in his administration.

Instead he smiles his Mitt the Volvo Salesman of the Month smile and then makes Sad Face #14.

Sarah Palin doesn't need goofballs like me to defend her, but shit like this will keep happening as long as Republican candidates keep hiring liberal media-whores for their campaigns.

305

Fight for me

_{Posted by: Juicy at July 16, 2010 02:20 PM (+sBB4)}

'Juicy for Kind Buds - 2012'

306

And that the end of the day we're on the same side.  Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 02:07 PM (pLTLS)

Don't think so, petunia.  Crawl back under your rock.

307 >>LOL, you meant that analysis that has Palin beating the living hell out of Romney in the primary? Awesome! McCain won the primary in '08. How did that work out? >>I've given an argument, though. Palin can take pressure. You do know she quit under pressure, right? >>I don't think Mitt can do that, and that's why you see Palin being elected to higher and higher officers, starting from complete obscurity, yet you see Romney buy one office and then try to buy higher offices but fail... because of his record. Dude, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska and she managed to leave this tiny town with $20 million in debt. How is that some testament to fiscal responsibility? She ended up as Gov. of a state with a population smaller than Worcester, MA and rather than fight off her detractors she quit to make money. Who is this mythical, highly seasoned, pressure immune, fiscal conservative you are talking about? >>There's a reason Romney lost to Mccain. That wasn't just some accident. It sucked, and I wish Mitt had won, but it happened because he's a poor politician and a worse leader. There are a couple reasons. One is named Huckabee who made it a mission to split the vote with Romney by siphoning off the "real Huck approved Christians" and hand the nomination to McCain. Not a leader? Does that mean Reagan wasn't a leader because he lost to Ford? Romney ran a pretty good campaign for a first timer, something that's pretty common in the Republican party historically, first time is to set the stage for the next run, but there's no doubt he made some miscalculations. Not counting on Huck to be an unprincipled douchebag who would use some very slimy religious attacks on him. Not seeing that the super duper conservative Charlie Crist would hand Florida to McCain was another. I don't think he is planning on making the same mistakes again. In any case, it's a beautiful Friday and the boat calls more than the 2012 election. Enjoy.

308

At the end of it all is why Palin is a total distraction.

We have to weigh how much damage the 'Levi factor' can harm her candidacy when we should be talking about how to best convey repealing Ocare to the public.

Every candidate has their baggage. And where baggage is concerned she leaves everyone in the dust.

In her cute little shorts as she poses for the cover of Runner's World.....

If she wants to be taken seriously, she has to start acting in a serious manner.

You don't get it both ways, Mama G.

309

_{garrett, who do you think should be the GOP nominee?  What's the positive case for them?}

Horny Female Dolphin / Devil Sheep - 2012

-the Pro-Mackerel, Anti-Wolf introduction platform has its appeal.

 

310 Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 01:55 PM (R2fpr)

Since you are so bothered by the use of the word "cool" let me try again....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool not only acceptable but praise worthy on the right?

Better?

311

Crawl back under your rock.

Weren't you the one talking about condescension?

Seriously, dood. Step away from the keyboard, asswipe.

312 Palin's "Momma Grizzly" vid was almost universally praised as a brilliant political ad.

Really? Repurposing a speech by adding some video images was "almost universally praised as a brilliant political ad"? I must have missed that.

Again, the idea that Plain cuts a video using quotes from a speech is viewed as "brilliant" really shows how the bar for awesomeness is kind of low.

I can think of a bunch of political ads that blow that away.

313

Also, I just got through with the Novelized Version of 'Nailin' Palin'.

The Film was better...much more moving, and I almost never say that about a Book over a Film.

314

You voted for McCain for his choice in VP?

...and not against Obama/Biden?

 

 

Posted by: garrett at July 16, 2010 02:16 PM (L09+R)

I voted proudly for both McCain and Palin.

315

_{I can think of a bunch of political ads that blow that away.}

I shifted Paradigms!

 

316 Dude, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska and she managed to leave this tiny town with $20 million in debt.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 16, 2010 02:32 PM (VW9/y)

I read this on DailyKos also.  Then I found out:
Sarah Palin built the city's first big sports complex, on time, under budget, and the bond will be paid off two years ahead of schedule. Sales tax revenue, which can only be used to pay the bond, is coming in faster than expected.

317 Romney had withdrawn by that point, he and Huckabee were splitting the conservative vote in most primaries resulting in McCain squeeking by as the front runner.  Do some research next time retard.  It will save you a whole ton of embarrasment later on.  Most republicans didn't want McCain, didn't like McCain.  He got the nomination because Huckabee and Romney split the McCain opposition vote and most states use a winner take all system in the primaries when it comes to delegates.
----

Romney had withdrawn by that point,

That's a polite way of saying "Romney quit".

And who was "The Conservative" in the 2008 field?  Romney V3.0?  Fred?  Fact is, there wasn't Reagan-like conservative in the field.  The closest fit, if memory serves, was Fred Thompson,  and he  dropped out (quit) after SC and endorsed McCain.  After that, conservatives stayed home and left the pit to the least despised.

And it doesn't matter how "most Republicans" feel -  It matters how "most Republicans" who take the time to fill out a primary ballot feel.  It matters how many committed delegates for each candidate appear at the national convention.  You don't like the rules? Well, tough. Support and fight for the candidate of your choice.

318 Garrett, I worked in politics for a good chunk of my adult life, and I can tell you, unreservedly, there are no "ideal" candidates.  None. Period.  Candidates are human beings, sometimes with huge flaws.  As a party, as a voter, you pick what's important to you and what you believe is important for the country (both to the good and the bad), and you go with the candidate that is good enough to get the job done (as best you can tell).  Going for the "ideal" is a sucker's play, the kind that got us Obama.  Full disclosure:  I know way too much about some candidates to ever vote for them, if they were running against Satan himself.  In my opinion, Palin is plenty good enough to get the job done.  As of now, I support her.  I'm open to someone new, but have no reservations about her ultimate electability compared to who is out there now.

319

I voted proudly for both McCain and Palin.

But now, this time, you are a Conservative?

I voted for McCain the way you fuck a Sheep.  With much shame.   

 

320 The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool on the right?

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 01:07 PM (X/Lqh)

When a look at the numbers showed that this would be the demographic to put her over the top.  It's not just "moms" that this video was supposed to appeal to, but grandmothers, sisters, aunts -- women who are aware of how rotten life is going to be for their kids in the Obama world of managed care and tracking their every dollar (if they're even able to earn a dollar to keep rather than pay it in taxes).

321 I can think of a bunch of political ads that blow that away.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 02:36 PM (X/Lqh)

You can show me a Romney ad like this, but first you will have to blow me.

322 sheepfuckersockOFF!

323 polynikes, my sheep said you did something awful to them last night.

324 "What has she done to reform the laws that she said caused her to quit?

Posted by: polynikes at July 16, 2010 02:43 PM (m2CN7)
"

Fair point.  A lot of what forced Palin out was the reforms put in place by Palin.  Of course, there is no search for the 'murderer'.  we know who filed these lawsuits and they were DNC and Obama campaign staff lawyers.

Still, the reforms were abused to make the state ungovernable.  It's governed now a lot better than it was before Palin made the reforms, but you have a point anyway.

325

Posted by: texette at July 16, 2010 02:40 PM (mw6p1)

Can I point out that we are not in the General Election phase. 

 We are in the Pre-Primary phase.  There are ideals and these generate the perception of Ideal Candidates for those who share similar ideals.

I object to the Dick Morris 'popularity is everything' approach to every level of politics. This is how you examine results, not plot your course. 

 

326

She's gotten dumber. I cannot be the only one that's noticed this.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 12:41 PM (pLTLS)

No, someone made a point about her Mama Grizzly ad. When I first heard her say, "Look out, because there's a whole herd of pink elephants coming through, and the ETA for them coming through is November 2, 2010." My initial impression was, "Jesus Christ, that sounds dumb." Pink elephants are associated with alcoholism, and an elephant stampede sounds like utter chaos. But the Dems went crazy for that commercial. I am hoping she is psyching out the media and playing dumb until the actual debates and campaigning gets underway. Because the MFM will promote the easiest candidate to defeat. I am maybe a little paranoid here, but I am reserving judgment till later.

327 And NO, I don't think she's anywhere near where she needs to be. But I still like her.

328 For me, I want someone who is going to turn this mess around.

I dont want a cult figure.. I dont care if he/she is good looking with perfect hair.
I want someone unapologeticaly conservative who can take Obama down with fact and figures.

I want the entire conversation of the 2012 election to be about the economy and jobs. Not about who can see Alaska from their house.. Not a conversation about Bristol Palin...  
Nothing to derail the conversation.  NOTHING.

I want that prick OUT OF OFFICE.

329 I'm beat

330

I voted for McCain the way you fuck a Sheep.  With much shame.   

 

Posted by: Devil Sheep at July 16, 2010 02:41 PM (L09+R)

Hey, we resemble that!

331 I wasn't saying "don't talk candidates yet" as an order or anything, I hope everyone knows that. I meant it as prudential guidance. This entire topic causes nothing but division as, obviously, we are divided, and I just do not see the point of dividing ourselves and wallowing in negativity so far out from the point at which it actually matters.

332

Since you are so bothered by the use of the word "cool" let me try again....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool not only acceptable but praise worthy on the right?

Better?

No.. not at all.  Totally unacceptable.  Needed more adjectives, more of a flowery presentation.  Maybe more of a Shakespearan twist, for example...

"Alas, for yonder Grizzly Momma doth tax the senses!  Tis it nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of such outrageous misfortune, or to stand forth and cry with a single voice, 'Bullshit!'  This is the question that weighs heavily upon us..."

Lol.. sorry, it's Friday.  I get a bit silly on Friday's..

333

Posted by: Pakistanis everywhere at July 16, 2010 02:54 PM (W8m8i)

You said you were going on the Hajj!

334

I voted for McCain the way you fuck a Sheep.  With much shame.   

Not sure which was more disturbing, the mental image that conjured up or the notion that you sounded as if you were speaaking from experience... lol..

335 Even I'm not sure where Romney is, for real healthcare, and Obama-care-wise, but whatever he ultimately says, I hope people don't seek metaphysical certainty in order to trust him.  I think he has a lot of private sector cred.  Also, he would not be dictator; a conservative (more conservative?) Congress would be an insurance policy. 

336

Garrett, I believe my points are just as valid for this phase as for the general election.

337

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 02:55 PM (ExQRC)

Spoken like a true sheep fucker!

338 Speaking of Scott Brown...

Look at all his 'friends' across the aisle rush to defend the honor of his daughters after that dingbat bitch called his girls prostitutes.

Posted by: you make me want to smoke at July 16, 2010 12:45 PM (uFokq)

The Democrats have no respect for those who compromise with them.

339

Posted by: texette at July 16, 2010 02:59 PM (mw6p1)

I think they feed the notion that is the popular media meme re: republican candidates. _{[Last time this netted us McLame as he was clearly chosen for the party.]} 

That being :  the field of contenders is set.

It is as if there are no dynamics in play between now and 2012 RNC.  This is simply not the case.

340

And who was "The Conservative" in the 2008 field? 

There really wasn't one, at least none that could make a serious run by that point.  But Romney and Huckabee were splitting most of the more conservative elements at that point and it allowed McCain to squeak by with a very narrow plurality.

You don't like the rules? Well, tough. Support and fight for the candidate of your choice.

I do.  Thanks.  I also never said anything about the rules, I merely pointed out historical fact that your assertion that McCain was the overwhelming choice of the Party in 08 was crap.  So feel free to put that strawman back in your ass, since that's obviously where you pulled it from.  But your contention that McCain was somehow a landslide choice of the Republican Party?  Total bullshit, complete revisionist history.  He slid in on a plurality, and not by damn much.  And if you actually know anything about the vote at the convention, you'd realize by then it's all a formality and everyone gets a landslide vote by the delegates.  The convention is a dog and pony show, for both sides. 

341

I'm a Conservative who is unsure about Romney or Palin, but I must admit, I like the way he is handling this. Real Leadership or as Dennis Miller would say, "I like the cut of his jib."

342 311 Y-not, how many years did Romney spend in office?

Seems he held a single office and was mediocre at best, spending most of his term overtly campaigning for President, much of it outside his state.

He's got 2 years executive experience for which he was paid with 4 years salary.

I think you're confusing me with someone else.  I am not promoting Romney for POTUS.  I voted for him in the CA primary (Fred! and Giuliani were already out), but I've been singularly unimpressed by his failure to disown government-run healthcare. 

Yes, he only has four years as a governor (I really don't think your point about it being only two is valid), but as an executive, he has quite a lot of experience from business.  I think his business and Olympics experience outweighs Palin's time as a small-town mayor and chair of a three-person commission. 

But as of now I would not vote for either of them, unless the only other candidate was Huckabee (or Obama, obviously).  Oh, and I would probably vote for either of them over Newt. 

It was in going through the Christie resume and comparing it to Palin's that I concluded that she really doesn't have enough experience on the national or even state level to qualify for POTUS.  Chris Christie is better-qualified, imho, particularly if he turns things around in NJ. 

343 Nothing to derail the conversation.  NOTHING.

I want that prick OUT OF OFFICE.

Posted by: Timbo at July 16, 2010 02:51 PM (ph9vn)

Well, duh. How well did McCain's clean, stick to the issues campaign work out for him? Obama couldn't be bothered to debate him more than a few times. Hell, he campaigned in Europe more than here.

It will never be about the issues with Obama. It will be puff pieces, flowery speeches delivered by teleprompter and the race card.

344 Garrett, you are correct that things can change.  Life can turn on a dime, and elections can turn on less.  As I said, I'm open-minded, but, of the current crop, I pick Palin.

345 Posted by: polynikes at July 16, 2010 02:43 PM (m2CN7)

I love this topic if for no other reason than it gives me at least one opportunity to agree w/polynikes.

346 Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 01:55 PM (R2fpr)

Since you are so bothered by the use of the word "cool" let me try again....

The whole "Momma Grizzly" thing...I get that politicians need to create and motivate a base but when did such sex-based identity politics become cool not only acceptable but praise worthy on the right?

Better?

Posted by: DrewM

 

It is better. If we are to attain the cool, considerate world you claim to desire, free of rabid Palinisitaism, then a reduction in the snark and an increase in the discussion of the tactical versus what we would consider ethical would be helpful.

Identity politics is a concern, especially when one considers the painful consequences attached to 'charged' terms and tactics stemming from such an approach. Since race and gender ( to a lesser degree) have been associated with civil rights, such tactics, while effective, often lead to the worst known demagogary (Rev Ian Paisley, Rev Al Sharpton, President Barack Obama).

And yet, where can a line be drawn on identity politics? If we are the sum of our parts (more or less, depending upon the individual), then must we suppress all of our idenities? Should veterans not appeal to other veterans and serving military personnel? Doctors or nurses should not run noting their work experiences and shared concerns? Or ethnic history?

 

If we can say that gender based tactics can be handled in a positive manner thereby promoting an inclusive effect (join us, we understand you and wish to represent you and work with you), then is this very disimilar from a veterean appealing to veterans? If it is used in a grasping, exclusive manner (Congressional Balck Caucus anyone?) then  we then experience the negative reaction that many on the right have when encountering identiy politics.

 

The question then becomes; is there such a thing as positive, inclusive identity politics? If we believe that the answer is no, or that ethical issues or the possibility of this going out of control are too great, then identity politics can never be contenanced.

347 When a look at the numbers showed that this would be the demographic to put her over the top. 
Posted by: Just for the record... at July 16, 2010 02:42 PM (W8m8i)

Ah, so conservative opposition to identity politics wasn't based on principle just convience.

Another impressive argument for the pro-Palin camp.

348 324 Y-Not--Palins live in Wasilla.  College and work may be someplace else.  Remember the geography and distances and travel difficulties in Alaska.

That's my point.  I don't understand why she moved away from her parents. 

Look, it's none of my business and families are complicated things, but if I were a single mother with no degree I'd be living near home so that I could get the help of my parents.  I would not put my kid in daycare. 

If I had the money to buy a townhouse at aged 18 or 19, I would instead use that money to create a stable home life for my kid and a future for myself (and him) by getting an education.  I rented for 16 years before I bought my first home because we kept relocating for our careers. 

She has a general office job, one that she could get with a high school diploma, so I doubt she had to relocate from Wasilla to get that specific job. 

But maybe the grandparents are helping her with Tripp.  I really don't know.  Her in-depth interview with Harper's didn't mention how Tripp was being cared for while she works a full-time job. 

349 Posted by: Moron in a Caribou Snuggie at July 16, 2010 02:48 PM (Ks4nX)

Ah, a lot of people who her like her ad.

Yes, some none fans weigh in but with comments but I'd rate as slightly less enthusiastic than "brilliant". Perhaps that's just a matter of interpretation that can never be settled.

350 Posted by: garrett at July 16, 2010 02:25 PM

Garrett,
Your question was about Cabinet positions, not POTUS.  That's all I answered. I didn't say that being Energy Secretary made her qualified to be POTUS. 
It reminds me of when Palin was sniped at as VP candidate by saying she wasn't a good enough candidate for President - a position for which she wasn't running. 
But as it turns out, I have convinced myself she is not qualified to be POTUS, which is a shame because I really like her. 

351 Y-Not--I thought she was going to nursing school, also.  Aside from that, I guess I just react from a different background.  I was totally on my own when I was 18.  If I had a child at that age, it never would have occurred to me that I should expect my parents to help me to care for the child, except for the usual grandparent babysitting nights or weekends.  Truly, I'm not being snarky, and am just trying to explain why I didn't immediately get your point.  When I was 18, my life was my life, and, though I was loved, me and mine werre my responsibility.

352 And yet, where can a line be drawn on identity politics
Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 03:12 PM (R2fpr)

I gather from the rest of your post, the line gets draw where it helps Palin.

At lest it's convenient.

And by the way, the idea that using the word "cool' is too loaded is another convenient line that's drawn. It wouldn't raise an eyebrow if I used that to tweak Huck, Romney or even Obama but when applied to Palin...it's right out.

353

_{Your question was about Cabinet positions, not POTUS.  That's all I answered. I didn't say that being Energy Secretary made her qualified to be POTUS.} 

I was pointing out that the, "She's better than a 'Stick in the Eye'", argument is weak no matter where you apply it. Energy Secretay, VP, Pres.. 

'Better than Shit', can mean 'Shit with Corn!' - too.

354 I just wanted to note that a lot of you Mitt supporters, particularly Jackstraw, are what make this blog valuable to me.

I just need to support someone who I can believe in, when it comes to urgent reform.  I won't waste the White House on anything less, and I think that's a practical philosophy.

It's good to see Straw back more than usual, so I hope that continues despite the inevitable circular firing squad.

I don't mind Mittbots being assholes.  They can condescend, Mitt will sometimes say he's sorry like he did today, and usually it won't matter enough to warrant attention.  That's the nature of the beast.

But don't be too surprised if, when people realize Palin is viable in the general after all, if things start to look inevitable for her.  If your entire argument is electability, it's too easy to tear that down.

355 Truly, I'm not being snarky, and am just trying to explain why I didn't immediately get your point.  When I was 18, my life was my life, and, though I was loved, me and mine werre my responsibility.

No worries.  I didn't take offense. 

We all have our own take on these things.  For me daycare for young kids is a really bad situation that I would avoid... but I really don't know if her grandparents are helping out with Tripp. 

I think the independence thing is important, but she kind of got into a big mess and it involves another person (Tripp), someone who is really vulnerable, so I think that getting the best situation for him is more important than demonstrating independence. 

Basically, I don't think he needs a three story townhouse -- I think she bought that for herself, not him.  She would be better off renting, imho.  I think he needs stability in his caregivers and a mom with a future.  Right now Bristol's future consists of selling her story to the media.  Ick. 

356 But you really seem to be trashing her unnecessarily here.
Posted by: Moron in a Caribou Snuggie at July 16, 2010 03:21 PM (Ks4nX)

Honest to God question...how have I been "trashing her"?

I've written much tougher stuff about Romney, Huck, McCain and even Mitch Daniels on this blog and have never been accused of trashing them.

357 garret--you are resorting to straw man arguments, now.  Whether you intend it or not (which I do not know), it is damned insulting.  Up until now, I thought we had a civil conversation going.  My mistake.  Have a nice day.

358 I do.  Thanks.  I also never said anything about the rules, I merely pointed out historical fact that your assertion that McCain was the overwhelming choice of the Party in 08 was crap.  So feel free to put that strawman back in your ass, since that's obviously where you pulled it from.

When selecting a party nominee for the presidency of the United States, voting "not present" is not a campaign-winning strategy.  John McCain was the choice, overwhelming or not, of the 2008 GOP primary voters who bothered to fill out a ballot.  And the convention's delegate tally is the only measure that determines the nominees on the national ticket.   The votes are what count.

As for the rules, you were the one complaining about the states with the "winner-take-all" primaries.  I loathe open primaries and there's not a darn thing I can do about them.

359 Has there been one Sullivan/Uterus post on this thread?

360

"You know damn well what she will believe in ten years, whether or not some policy is popular or not.  "

Don't get your hopes up.  Palin's terms as Gov. and as Oil Commish were not entirely un-tax and spendorific, or free from vote pandering.  She's just been pandering to conservaties lately, is all.  Plus she quit her job as soon as she ran into some opposition--what makes you think she'll hang tough next time?

And don't even get me started on the Romnoid or the Huck.  What a sorry bunch of candidates.  Ugh.

It's pretty appalling to see the partisans (mostly Palinites in this thread) try to put a sheen on one of the 2008 grabbag of bustedness.

No thanks.

361 DrewM. at July 16, 2010 03:25 PM (X/Lqh)


For what it is worth, I see the "Mamma Grizzly" thing as rather clever on her part.

It looks to me that it has had the intended effect on the liberal feminazi totalitarians, who rushed to the op-ed pages of the NYT, the WaPo, the BosGlobe and many lefty blogs to denounce the very idea of a conservative concept of female empowerment. It was after that speech Palin gave at the Susan B. Anthony's List in DC back around the end of March. That was the first time the Mama Grizzly idea was put forth in that form by Palin.

She crossed the Rubicon, invaded their territory and started tearing shit up.

They were all worried about it, the alarm bell was sounded and they all came running to the MFM to denounce her and the whole idea. Impossible, they said.

Some smart female righty bloggers demolished their stupid arguments with ease.

Dcrying identity politics on the right as the same as the left is missing the point, I think. She is showing many people that you don't have to be a damn baby murdering big government shrill harpy to be pro-woman.

She is attacking one of the long held tenets of the left, that they own the female vote. They do not, and she is bringing attention to that fact, and perhaps moving the needle for us in the process. It was deliberate on her part, she wants to fight these fucks, and I say more power to her. I can't think of any other Republican figure who the lefty ladies get so worked up about silencing.

You know the saying, if you're taking flak, you're over the target.

362

Well, duh. How well did McCain's clean, stick to the issues campaign work out for him? Obama couldn't be bothered to debate him more than a few times. Hell, he campaigned in Europe more than here.

It will never be about the issues with Obama. It will be puff pieces, flowery speeches delivered by teleprompter and the race card.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at July 16, 2010 03:08 PM (mHQ7T)

McCain stuck to the issues?  McCain was too busy reaching across the aisle..suspending his campaign to vote FOR the freakin bank bailout.. and assuring us.. Obama would be just fine.  McCain didnt have the balls to even bring up Rev Wright.

McCain sucked.

363

Honest to God question...how have I been "trashing her"?

Don't forget the rules, Drew.

Hers. And then every other conservative candidate/pol.

(All this lunacy for a woman we're all voting for if push comes to shove and it's her or Obama. Sigh.)

364

_{garret--you are resorting to straw man arguments, now.  Whether you intend it or not (which I do not know), it is damned insulting.  Up until now, I thought we had a civil conversation going.  My mistake.  Have a nice day.}

I wasn't responding to your comment Texette. I was replying to ynot (i think).

I get it.  You like Sarah more than Romney,  et al.  I think we'll see her viability slip further as 2012 nears.

Perhaps a nice Moss Covered rock would sooth your irritable senses?

365 Y-Not:  My own life is a mystery to me, much less the life of anyone else.  By the way, I hope the move goes well, or at least no worse than need be.  New starts can be so exciting, but, don't wear yourself out so much that you can't enjoy it.  Have a great day.

366 All this lunacy for a woman we're all voting for if push comes to shove and it's her or Obama. Sigh.)

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 03:42 PM (pLTLS)

Yes, we needed that reminder just about now.

Vice versa, as well.

367

'senses' should have been 'sensibilities'.

My bad.

368 For what it is worth, I see the "Mamma Grizzly" thing as rather clever on her part.
Posted by: Brian72 at July 16, 2010 03:40 PM (GNBk5)

I agree it's very clever on her part.

I'm just noting it's something other candidates would get killed for.

369 Thanks, texette!

I'm getting pretty darned (see, I am learning to avoid swearing... I'm almost ready to live in Utah!) excited. 

Of course, it all depends on successfully getting out from under this house, but we are cautiously optimistic. 

370 (All this lunacy for a woman we're all voting for if push comes to shove and it's her or Obama. Sigh.)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 16, 2010 03:42 PM (pLTLS)

Personally, I'm not committing to vote for whatever Republican gets thrown out there.

I sucked it up and voted for McCain last time and I'm done with that.

The only candidate I've ruled out so far is Huck. I'll vote for whatever crazy ass fool the Libertarians throw out there before him.

371 Sarah Palin and the wimmins  LINK  (AJC  as in "Atlanta ...")

The current RCP spread for Karen Handel's bid for the GA GOP governor's race is +2.2

Excerpt:

Last week, Handel’s three main rivals — state Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine, former congressman Nathan Deal, and former state senator Eric Johnson — could ignore her attempts to become known as a champion of ethics, at their expense.

But within six hours of PalinÂ’s endorsement, state Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine climbed down from his front-runner pedestal and leveled a TV ad at Handel that dubbed her a big spender, a funder of Planned Parenthood and a friend to gay couples.

With bad hair.

----

372

Personally, I'm not committing to vote for whatever Republican gets thrown out there.

Well that's because you're a RINO candyass traitor to the cause!!!eleventy!!!

Cheers!

*clinks glasses*

373 So is Sarah Palin's message you need a vagina to get her endorsement?

Where's mine?!

374

Wow. After a whole thread, still pretty thin on reasons to SUPPORT Romney. I liked him way more than McVain, but still, I couldn't tell you why besides 'He's not Øb+ama.'  And some here are still repeating 'Palin is unelectable' even after the PPP poll says that is complete horseshit.

Whole lot of the same stereotypical Palin = teh stupid, or not wonky enuff, or no specifics. Well I saw her on Bill Oreilley on immigration. She was specific. CLOSE THE BORDER. Put 10,000 or more troops until the wall is built. What is non-specific about that?  When asked what about 20 million already here she said during all of Bill's badgering and interrupting 'I will not favor law breakers.' You know what that means, it means DEPORTATION, not AMMNESTY.  Yes you CAN deport 20 million illegals, the same way they came in, a few at a time, not in one day like Bill and every other idiot expects. Its called attrition.

The family soap opera, and the hoaky grizzly stuff bothers me about Palin, but you know what doesn't bother me. She has guts. Something our party of pussies has been lacking for a long long time. Yes I'm looking at you Steele. She's doing the fucking job you are supposed to be doing, AND she sold more books than your sorry ass doing it too. After the media rectal exam she didnt go crying. Some may not accept her reason to quit, I don't like it much either, but she didn't quit to run away, she quit to take the fight to the enemy. And she is winning as the poll now shows.

I know, I sound like a brain-dead Palinista, but again, I still don't see a real reason to fervently support Romney. To me, nothing tops guts, and so far, she's the only one besides Christie that wants to smash a few faces. And if Guts is enough for Sgt. Hartman, its damn well good enough for me.

375 I agree it's very clever on her part.

I'm just noting it's something other candidates would get killed for.

Posted by: DrewM. at July 16, 2010 03:44 PM (X/Lqh)

Yes, but she is not other candidates. She represents something unique, as in an opportunity the conservative movement has not had before.

There are some others coming along as well, like Bachmann, Haley.

Sarah is leading the charge, wading into the ranks of the enemy, taking their identity politics axe away from them, and smiting their heads with it.

Strategically, tactically it smells of goodness.

Others will follow, as we are seeing already. 

Before long , Sarah won't be the only target the lefty ladies have to shoot at, and their credibility will further shrink in ratio to her success at this.

Sarah Palin has done more than just endorse women, of course, but this could wind up being bigger than anyone realizes right now, whether she winds up being the nominee or not.

She did endorse Tim Scott, black conservative House candidate in South Carolina, and he could do something similar to the House Race Caucus in the future.  Ditto Lt. Col. Allen West. That man is not fucking around.

376 Heh. First by default.

377 "

"You know damn well what she will believe in ten years, whether or not some policy is popular or not.  "

Don't get your hopes up.  Palin's terms as Gov. and as Oil Commish were not entirely un-tax and spendorific, or free from vote pandering.  She's just been pandering to conservaties lately, is all.  Plus she quit her job as soon as she ran into some opposition--what makes you think she'll hang tough next time?

And don't even get me started on the Romnoid or the Huck.  What a sorry bunch of candidates.  Ugh.

It's pretty appalling to see the partisans (mostly Palinites in this thread) try to put a sheen on one of the 2008 grabbag of bustedness.

No thanks.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream"

This is just absurd.

I'm not pretending Palin is perfect or even the best potential.  I think her record is great and the idea that she quit at the sign of first opposition is simply a lie.  And the idea that her record on Alaska isn't one of reform and results is also a lie.

You know I'm right: ten years from now, Palin will just be uglier.  She'll be similar otherwise.  who knows what the hell her kids will be doing.

378 btw, I'm actually working, so I'm not reading every comment here.

Not that it matters, but I'm probably missing some direct replies.  Not on purpose.

379 Lot's of people talk a good game about wanting conservative leadership and principles in Washington. But then when real conservatism stares them in the face they turn tale and run claiming that "it'll never be supported" or "we'd better not turn off independents". Guess there is absolutely no possibility to win unless we back some Mittens-like candidate with nothing to show for support except, what, socialized medicine in MA? Awesome, you can be sure he'll lead the fight to repeal Obamacare.

380 I find some of these Palinisms -- "Mama Grizzlies," the "Lamestream Media" -- either pandering or dumb. I don't discard them just on those grounds -- if they are pandering and/or dumb but work, I will take that, all the way to the bank. My problem is that I think a lot of people think as I do and think this stuff is pandering and/or dumb and so it won't work. I continue to be extremely alarmed at Sarah Palin's plan to capture 30% of the vote.

381 I continue to be extremely alarmed at Sarah Palin's plan to capture 30% of the vote.

Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 04:12 PM (0wPhn)

Uh, the PPP poll had her tied with Obama at %46 now, and beating him among indies by 5 points.

That is ok though. You refuse to relent the skepticism, and I refuse to accept it.

There is a long way to go yet, we'll see how it shakes out in the end.

382 ace, I LOVE it when she call out the Lamestream Media!! Someone needs to give them the 'respect' they have earned. I'm with you on the grizzly part. Kinda sounds goofy.

383 Whoa ....  LINK   Washington State Senate polling ...

Clint Didier, as in, "Sarah Palin-endorsed" Clint Dider.

From Rasmussen (ht HA):

A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Voters in Washington State finds Republican hopefuls Dino Rossi and Clint Didier both earning 48% support in match-ups with Murray. She, in turn, picks up 45% of the vote against the two GOP challengers. Less than 10% of voters in both cases prefer some other candidate in the race or are undecided.

384 Sorry - Sock Off after the WA Senate post.

385

Cheer up Republicans; I see a bright side to all of this:

The GOP must not give away too much too early to the Dem smear machine (aka. the media, Hollywood, academia).  In fact, it's best that the GOP appear as incompent and bumbling as possible, with weak, already tarnished canidates for 2012, for as long as possible; voter disgust with both parties is high; it's climbing against the Dems...none of the canidates the GOP have now can win it imho (and if they did, it would be a disaster), but the GOP stands to win big nonetheless due to the Dems' destruction of the country.  Keep them complacent, keep them more concerned about this than what they are doing to themselves by keeping Mitt, Palin, Huck, and Newt in the news (and Steele)...and then do something unexpected, and win everything.

Or: the Republicans will just stick with what they are doing now, nominate one of these nightmares as their canidate...and frak up beyond belief.  If they do that, they deserve to go extinct.  I await Nov. '10 and '12; we'll find out.

386
"I continue to be extremely alarmed at Sarah Palin's plan to capture 30% of the vote. Posted by: ace at July 16, 2010 04:12 PM"

So clever and smug now that mittwipe is paying the bills. Did you get as much as allahpussy did?

387 Yes, but she is not other candidates. She represents something unique, as in an opportunity the conservative movement has not had before.
Posted by: Brian72 at July 16, 2010 04:03 PM (GNBk5)

Yeah, I'm not sure that's true.

388 So if you don't like "trashed", I hereby retract it. OK?
Posted by: Moron in a Caribou Snuggie at July 16, 2010 04:10 PM (Ks4nX)

I didn't ask you to retract it, I honestly asked you to explain what I did that led you to that statement.

Unlike the Death Star above Endor, I swear it wasn't a trap.

389

And yet, where can a line be drawn on identity politics
Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 03:12 PM (R2fpr)

I gather from the rest of your post, the line gets draw where it helps Palin.

At lest it's convenient.

And by the way, the idea that using the word "cool' is too loaded is another convenient line that's drawn. It wouldn't raise an eyebrow if I used that to tweak Huck, Romney or even Obama but when applied to Palin...it's right out.

1. I didn't say that a line should or should not be drawn.

2. I never said that one candidate should or should not do this.

3. I DID say that some candidates engage in identity politics today, and gave examples. I also noted that many people (including myself) harbor the thought that some types of identity politics have a greater capacity for harm than others. However, listening to liberals whine about how their obvious disdain for military service (and servicemen) does not or should not preclude them from office has been a source of contention since at least the 90's.

4. For a guy who complained loud and long about the tenor and tone of people defending Palin, you seem to be very disconcerted when you're called on the same. Noting that Palin is engaging in gender based identity politcs is an apt observation. Discussing whether this criteria is any different, or any worse than any other type is one worth having. Having it here, and framing it the way you did, after complaining about how 'Palinistas' ( I think that this term is stupid; I neither know or care what its origin is) react to criticism seems to be tantamount to baiting.

 

I'd be happy to discuss identity politics. I have a degree in this field, with some Masters work. I am not arguing one side in favor of Palin or anyone else.

390 'Palinistas'
Posted by: Blue Hen at July 16, 2010 05:16 PM (R2fpr)

FTR, I don't think I've ever used that term.

391

Mitt = Used BMW salesman from LA. He just puts out that vibe, and it puts me off.

I get the same vibe from the guy.  I remember the Repubix debates during the primaries and thought that Mitten's delivery was stiff (and not in a good way and not geniune.  I don't hate the guy.....I just get the Rino whiff from him much like McCain.

392

I wonder if this means that at the end of the day Romney thinks Palin wants to be a powerbroker, not a candidate?

If so, best to stay on her good side.

393

"the idea that she quit at the sign of first opposition is simply a lie."

Mindreading fail.  Facts fail.

"And the idea that her record on Alaska isn't one of reform and results is also a lie."

Mindreading fail.  Facts fail.

"You know I'm right"

Mindreading fail.

 

Palin postures to the right, like Obama postures to the Left.  I'm sick of posturing and pandering, whether its done poorly (Romney), with mediocrity (Huckabee), or well (Palin).

394 336--fk off, pantywaist Rombot.  Your guy blows.

395 Palin postures to the right, like Obama postures to the Left.

This is at least somewhat true.  It's why Romney is viewed as the "opposite" of Palin, even though it's hard to know if there would be any divergence on the bills they would sign, the legislation they would push.

Still waiting for real, attributed quotes from Romney re his stance on healthcare, and on Palin.  Oh, wait.  on the later, he said he likes her.

396 "bad reputation in 2007-08 of being a little too eager to jump ugly with Republican rivals"

Well, that came from a genuine fraud, named Mike Huckabee, who taxed and spent more than Bill Clinton in Arkansas.

The Romney Camp got a bad rap, and to be fair, they were often talking about policy and record.

Huckabee, McCain, etc., were actually making references which were dishonest and ugly.  Huckabee made an ugly reference to Mormon faith.  McCain slandered Romney's position on Iraq.  They all teamed up on Romney, aided by a vast number of Democrats, knowing he was the best candidate for the GOP at the time.

Who knows who will be best this time around, but the bad rap was not fair, and it hurt Our own Interests.

Conservatives better do their best to get the BEST this time around.

A great deal of fashion goes to Mrs. Palin, but I see numerous problems there, which even stem from her embrace of the Maverick Platform.

I just hope Fashion doesn't undermine all once again.

The Fred Head Folly ended up enabling the worst in the Maverick.  So did Huckabee.

We shall see...