1 What are you? Some kind of RINO?

2 Can we take religion out of politics??  PLEASE?

3 Just kidding.

Your point is well taken. How about winning the damned election before you shoot your mouth off. Stick to the message, which in this case is: Reid must go!

4

If her rhetoric tends towards the "religious," remember one thing : Nevada has LOTS of Mormons, who are traditionalists.

 

5 It's a shame that telling the unvarnished truth will lose elections, but politics is politics, I suppose.

6 I can't trust anyone that bases their life and actions on religion and the commands of their deity.  These folks that are motivated so publicly and vociferously by their religious beliefs and leaders are quacks.

7 Nevadans know a different Sharon Angle. The irony is that she's popping off  philosophically about a philosophy she probably doesn't entirely subscribe to.

8

I agree with what she is getting at, but religious politics won't play well in Nevada.

She is rightt that the left wants to, and has always wanted to, replace god with the state.  The Soviet Union comes to mind.

While i am an agnostic jew who isn't bothered by people talking about religion, I do understand alot of the squishy independent voters are bothered by it.

 

9 But, then, I don't get to vote for or against her so...

10 Can we take religion out of politics??  PLEASE?

Democrats go first.

11

I've got NO PROBLEM with what she's saying...

 

I don't think most americans do either, but we'll see if she gets marginalized for her beliefs (that were pretty mainstream before we went off course so badly)

12

Oh God...

13 She is rightt that the left wants to, and has always wanted to, replace god with the state.  The Soviet Union comes to mind.

Yeah.

The only gods you can mention in public are Allah and Gaia...and those are just means to this end.

14 in God we trust

15

She should just focus only on property value, taxes, and job loss in america under harry reid.

keep her innermost ideas to herself until after she is elected. While i admire her speaking the truth as she sees it, i will admire her more if she is elected senator and Harry Reid is put out to pasture.

16 course I live in AZ and we'd just deport Reed...

17 Welcome back, Harry!

*Cocks gun, shoots self*

18

I had begun to hope that a rising Republican tide would lift Angle's boat over 51%. I am back to thinking this candidate seems intent on popping off philosophically instead of buckling down and winning an election.

That's because you're a RINO.

I think it's about the most interesting thing that I've heard from a major candidate for an important elected office in maybe the last quarter century.

 

19

  I don't see the big deal, thats the essence of communism, to replace God with the State.

  We cant always reflexively pussy out when politicians actually say something true and real, even if its not framed in politispeak. We say we are sick of slick career douchebag politicians, then get all bugf*k when we get something different.  We cant continue to want it both ways.  If you want Dem Lite to be our fate forever, thats a great way to do it. 

   I think you guys are underestimating the absolutely blind fury that normal people have at government right now.  

calling the government Evil is a winning strategy, which has the clear benefit of being true. 

 if you really think the dem approach of "we're incompetent, but they are crazy" thing to work, I don't see it. Crazy beats stupid hands down.  

 

 

 

20 leave a word

21 ZOMG!!!! she said the G word!!!!! eleventy!!!!111111!!!!!

22 It sounds like Reid is going to win this one.  Dammit, I was really looking forward to seeing him all crestfallen.

Just out of curiosity, does Nevada have open primaries (for Republicans) so that Dems can stuff the ballot boxes?

23 Sigh.

If Angle would talk about the economy, she would win with 60%.

THE MAN'S SON IS NOT USING HIS LAST NAME IN CAMPAIGN ADS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

How hard can this be?

24
The only gods you can mention in public are Allah and Gaia...and those are just means to this end.

More than that -- the left insists on legislating our obedience to both of them!

25 I had begun to hope that a rising Republican tide would lift Angle's boat over 51%.

Ace; one thing to keep in mind here is this is a Las Vegas newspaper that is totally in Harry Reid's back pocket. In addition, this is from April under the old campaign management.

What we need to hear from Angle's people is (a) Is this an accurate quote or has been Palinized and (b) if it is accurate (don't tell us) but put some spin on it while attacking Harry Reid for being a godless Communist masquerading as a Mormon.

26 Don't know if anybody read this yet.  Texas AG says HELL NO to EPA and Obama.

27

It's not whether you agree with her or not. The issue is will stuff like this cost her the election.

In a quasi-socially moderate/liberal Nevada, it might.

She is a Republican and already has the religious people of the state locked down, now she needs the libertarians, fiscally conservative democrats, and most importantly the people that are looking for any reason to vote against Reid.

She needs to give them that reason, and this won't help a lot.

 

I agree with her, but how will this help her win?

 

28 (plaque at Mt Rushmore)

Almighty God, from this pulpit of stone the American people render thanksgiving and praise for the new era of civilization brought forth upon this continent. Centuries of tyrannical oppression sent to these shores, God-fearing men to seek in freedom the guidance of the benevolent hand in the progress toward wisdom, goodness toward men, and piety toward God.

1776 Consequently, on July 4, 1776, our forefathers promulgated a principle never before successfully asserted, that life, liberty, equality, and pursuit of happiness were the birthrights of all mankind. In this declaration of independence beat a heart for all humanity. It declared this country free from British rule and announced the inalienable sovereignty of the people. Freedom's soldiers victoriously consecrated this land with their life's blood to be free forever more.

1787 Then, in 1787, for the first time a government was formed that derived its just powers from the consent of the governed. General Washington and representatives from the 13 states formed this sacred Constitution, which embodies our faith in God and in mankind by giving equal participation in government to all citizens, distributing that powers of governing, threefold securing freedom of speech and of the press, establishing the right to worship the Infinite according to conscience, and assuring this nation's general welfare against an embattled world. This chart of national guidance has for more than 150 years weathered the ravages of time. Its supreme trial came under the pressure of civil war, 1861-65. The deadly doctrines of secession and slavery were then purged away in blood. The seal of the Union's finality set by President Lincoln, was accomplished like all our triumphs of law and humanity, through the wisdom and the power of an honest, Christian heart.

Far-sighted American statesmanship acquired by treaties, vast wilderness territories, where progressive, adventurous Americans spread civilization and Christianity.

1803 In 1803, Louisiana was purchased from France. This acquisition extended from the Mississippi river, across the fertile prairie to the Rocky mountains, and paved the way for America's pre-eminence among the nations.

1819 In 1819, the picturesque Florida peninsula was ceded as payment of Spanish obligations due to Americans.

1845 In 1845, Texas, having patterned American democracy during the 10 years of freedom from Mexican rule, accepted the invitation to join the sisterhood of states. In 1846, the Oregon country was peacefully apportioned by the 49th parallel as the compromised international boundary of the two English-speaking nations.

1848 In 1848, California and territory likewise rich in natural resources was acquired as the consequence of an inevitable conflict with Mexico. In spirit of mutual concession, the United States granted additional indemnities for the adjustment of the international boundary, extending form the Rio Grande to the Gulf of California.

1850 In 1850, Texas willingly ceded the disputed Rio Grande region, thus ending the dramatic acquisition of the west.

1867 In 1867, Alaska was purchased from Russia.

1904 In 1904, the Panama Canal Zone was acquired for our people to build a navigable highway enabling the world's people to share the fruits of the earth and of human industry.

Now, these eras are welded into a nation possessing unity, liberty, power, integrity and faith in God, with responsible development of character and devoted to the performance of humanitarian duty.

Holding no fear of the economic and political, chaotic clouds hovering over the earth, the consecrated Americans dedicate this nation before God, to exalt righteousness and to maintain mankind's constituted liberties so long as the earth shall endure.

29

I agree with you john...we just pussy out over the first use of the G word

 

totally lame and PC...that's why Angle will win

30 the left insists on legislating our obedience to both of them!

That's what I'm seeing as the means to the end...mandatory Gaia-worship in the form of green laws (gov't out of my bedroom reading lamp!!) leads to totalitarian state.  Praise Hitler for taking away our freedom to starve by making us work (with no air-conditioning)!

31

How hard can this be?

For Reflublicans? Damned hard, apparently.

32 To me it simply sounds like she is warning against state worship.

33

it amazes me that once again, we castigate a Republican candidate for doing something that is consistant with themselves and the party that they purport to represent. Not everyone believes that the Republicans should make such references, while others believe that no such references be made. But the current plank of the Republican party maintains that we are a nation founded with Judeo-Christian principles. Her statements clearly delineate her and the party from her opponent and the all encompassing catch-all solution for our ills; a larger, grasping and more intrusive government. Portraying government as being a nform of idolatry may work, at least in Nevada; we here and others elsewhere have made the assertion that AGW is a belief system, if not a cult, as well as a scam job. I'd wager that Mark Steyn would be in agreement here.

The main problem I see here is that the Press (and we here) give a pass to leftists on such statements (Pelosi's 'Word made Flesh' comes to mind) that we don't allow our own.

 

34 Just love this ..... "To encourage acquiesence with your unsupported findings you threaten to usurp state enforcment authority and to federalize the permitting program of any state that fails to pledge their fealty to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)." 
Yes, they did use the word fealty.  heh

35

Question....

If Reagen had said this... you would have said exactly the same thing, at the time (and yes, I remember how Ronnie was treated by the Press).

Yet with 30 year hindsight you would be calling it genius.

Please give "some" credit to the American voter... I would rather vote for someone who actualy told me what they think, vice the Washington weenie who tells me only what they THINK I want to hear.

36 yeah. Reid will win because Angle mentioned that her values include believing in someone higher than herself.....

inalienable rights were endowed by aliens....or something

This is our conservative base? Crying because a woman running for office cites her religious beliefs ?

So I guess she should conceal her true views until after the election.

That's a familiar story.....

37 I mean a good chunk of Jonah Goldberg's book was about worship of the state in fascism. We can argue about whether she explains it clearly. We can argue about whether this is the issue to run with. But it isn't oddball in the slightest.

38
GOD DAMMIT!  @#$^^!@#$^*&^%$

Nobody can f*ck up a cakewalk election cycle like the effing GOP. 

39

Bullshit.

I commented on this on the last thread.  It isn't that a (R) candidate says something like this.  It is that it is portrayed as a scandal precisely because it is an (R) candidate.  When Pelosi said far stranger things about how religion informed her beliefs - zip, nada, zilch. 

I can see how religious beliefs can be a mine field in this day in age.  I can also see how what Angle said could cause people to raise some eyebrows, especially since what she is talking about is not what I believe.  But I also see that what she is saying is that her beliefs are grounded in her faith which to me is not all bad since I believe that it is not a bad thing to have a basis for ones convictions.

I look at what Angle said and I don't see that it is off the track.  Too strong of words perhaps - war and the like.  But that shit is said here on a daily basis. 

I don't think we should be helping people with an anti-religious agenda to kick (R) candidates in the stomach for beliefs that quite a few in this country still share.

40 An anti-statist message that appeals to what about 80% of Americans claim to believe is fine by me, and I'm so much of an atheist I don't even know what the hell religious people are even talking about. She's pitching a majority message in the terms of another, overlapping majority. That's probably +net.

Anti-religious lefties and Polite Company (to anti-religious lefties) Conservatives are against her anyway. The only constituency she can alienate by generating such quotes is the percentage whose votes are reflexive responses to MFM portrayals of candidates. The MFM is going to shit on Angle no matter what, so to her, that audience is unreachable. Maybe she gets it.

41 Meh. 

42 Posted by: High Prietess at August 05, 2010 10:30 AM (1kwr2) Has a very good point. Conservative Mormons in Nevada have been voting for Harry Reid. Gaining their support could solidify a victory for her.

43 >>>It's a shame that telling the unvarnished truth will lose elections, but politics is politics, I suppose. Posted by: Bat Chain Puller It's the unvarnished truth for *whom*? Oh right, people who don't believe in God don't count, and apparently our votes are too dirty to be solicited.

44 Ugh. She's right in principle, but its far too philosophical for most to have any idea what she's talking about, and they certainly don't want to hear about how it's violated the 1st commandment. I can't frickin' believe someone as unpopular as Harry Reid is going to win because Nevada nominated THAT poor a candidate.

45 The Left's religion IS politics.

Their god is the state.

Only one side gets told to get their religion out of politics, and it isn't the Left.

46

I have given money to Sharron Angle, but I had really hoped she would not be the repub nominee,

I had really hoped Sue Lowden or Danny T, either one, would have won in the primaries.

I have family in NV, they are independents, and its statements like this that is causing independents to not vote for Sharron Angle, hell no they aren't voting for Harry Reid, but they are not voting or donating or campaigning for Angle. Yes, my family in NV are religious, but why the hell is Angle bringing religion into this.

If all Angle did is keep hammering at Reid all the time, and that's it, it would be great, but this woman just spouts off. She truely is wreaking a sure victory, if she loses, its her fault, and hers alone.  People want to vote against Harry Reid, but then they hear "Angle is an extremist and out of the mainstream" and then they hear statements like this from Angle.

This is exactly why I thought Sue Lowden or Danny T would have been a much better choice.

I truely hope Angle can pull this off, and I will most likely donate to her again, but this lack of discipline to win an election on her part is making me very reluctant to even donate to her anymore because I see first hand through my family in NV how they are turning away from her because of her statements like this.

47 >>>She's pitching a majority message in the terms of another, overlapping majority. That's probably +net. Yeah,, +net. She flatters a constituency she already had locked down through the use of identity politcs at the expense of constituencies she's flailing with. +net indeed. Some people seem to suffer from Reverse Pauline Kael syndrome, where you don't seem to know many people who aren't hardcore religious (or are religious, but have a problem with its direct interjection into secular politics). Nevada's a very purple state; you know that, right? It went for Obama last election. This isn't bright-red Kansas or bright-red Utah. Or darkish red Kentucky, even. This is actually a swing state. Swing state.

48 Ace's point is that, POLITICALLY, this might be a loser. We'll see. But the idea that religion is a personal matter that shouldn't affect policy decisions is a load of crap. EVERY policy decision is a reflection of one's theology and philosophy. As a voter I gave a right to know what a candidate's decision matrix is. It's particularly odious that it seems that only Christians are obliged to keep their thoughts to themselves.

49

did Ace just post that his vote didn't count?

RLY?

50 What was Reagan's 11th Commandment again?  (And what about the 12th thru 15th Commandments?)

51 and no she doesn't have to hide her religion, but she is going about this in the wrong way.  I agree with Ace's post.

52 Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:48 AM (KUUXH) So your point is that if a someone has religious beliefs it's a negative for atheists? That tells me a lot about atheists and nothing about Angle.

53
Oh right, people who don't believe in God don't count, and apparently our votes are too dirty to be solicited.

Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:48 AM (KUUXH)

And people who do, don't either.  I got it, let's alienate everyone.  And if the candidates can't do it on their own.  Let's help them.

54

The main problem I see here is that the Press (and we here) give a pass to leftists on such statements (Pelosi's 'Word made Flesh' comes to mind) that we don't allow our own.

Biden, Pelosi, Kerry et al pull out the Catholic card when it's most convenient, and the slavering LSM doesn't bat an eye. Nor do the squishy middlers, it appears.When JFK ran for president, there was a fear across the land that the Pope would be pulling his strings. If Angle's comments are scary to some squishes, they should be reminded of the anti-Catholic bigotry against the 20c Democrat icon.

Now if Angle had iterated that Allah was calling her to the U.S. Senate, she'd be golden.

55 >>>Bullshit. >>>I commented on this on the last thread. It isn't that a (R) candidate says something like this. It is that it is portrayed as a scandal precisely because it is an (R) candidate. When Pelosi said far stranger things about how religion informed her beliefs - zip, nada, zilch. Bullshit yourself; you fail to understand the dynamic. Nancy Pelosi is a godless communist pinko. When she talks about religion it is seen (and sorta IS) an attempt at moderation, an attempt to show she's not JUST a godless communist pinko, she goes to church and pretends to believe in Jesus. Such statements actually pull her (superficially) closer to the American cultural center. A tiny bit. We already knew Angle was religious. We do not have here a statement that puts her closer to the middle but further from it.

56 Her analogy is fine with me. Leftist idolatry is at work here. ace, you spoke of this in your last sentence in a way that implies she said this yesterday. She said in April. To a Christian audience. I'm not a Christian, but I get what she's saying.

57 >>>So your point is that if a someone has religious beliefs it's a negative for atheists? That tells me a lot about atheists and nothing about Angle. That's right. How many atheists are voting for lately yourself?

58 Chalk up another for agreeing it's a total *facepalm* moment.  No need to say something like this.  Just stay on the attack, win the election, then spout off about whatever.

59

Here's where the secular conservative does the facepalm. 

Her statement seems like a clumsy combination of religious pandering and a denouncement of statism.  But it implies that we must either worship the State (and Democrats by proxy) or we must worship God (and Republicans by proxy).  I long for a politician to acknowledge that I own my life, and no one else.

60 The objective is to win the election, with all this she has given ammo to the opposition to kill her chances of winning.  That's the problem with what she said, nothing more, nothing less.

61 I think I take it as a bad thing when a Christian candidate says on a Christian station that reliance on Government vs reliance on God is bad and gets criticized for it. 

The general concept is widely accepted among Christians and even others who don't believe in God don't think that we should pin our hopes on Uncle Sammy as our savior and provider.

I know there are many who believe we Christianists are trying to impose the Ten Commandments as the law of the land, but it's kinda getting paranoid if our candidates aren't even allowed to refer to them when speaking to other Christians without causing angst.

Of course, it doesn't surprise me in the least when the MFM tries to act like we're Sharia Law Part II.  But conservatives should say to them, "Yeah, so what?  You think someone believing in self reliance and God is the big threat our country faces?  Get a clue."

62 It's a shame that telling the unvarnished truth will lose elections, but politics is politics, I suppose.
Posted by: Bat Chain Puller

It's the unvarnished truth for *whom*?

Oh right, people who don't believe in God don't count, and apparently our votes are too dirty to be solicited.

Posted by: ace

An unvarinished truth for everyone who winces at the phrase, "I'm from Washington and I'm here to help".

Anyone who observed, as Mark Steyn did, that relying on the state as opposed to oneself and families, coupled with idiotic ebergy and building code policies (restricting installation of A/C units) caused the enormous death toll in Europe several years ago during their heat wave.

Anyone who is bothered by the Kelo vs. New London decision.

Anyone facing the loss of their health insurance due to Obamacare.

All of these are examples of false idols stuck up on a pedestal by Government advocates. And they're just as useful as the statue of the cow (Ba'al?) that Moses saw when he descended Mt Sinai.

63 Ace's point is that, POLITICALLY, this might be a loser. We'll see. But the idea that religion is a personal matter that shouldn't affect policy decisions is a load of crap. EVERY policy decision is a reflection of one's theology and philosophy. As a voter I gave a right to know what a candidate's decision matrix is. It's particularly odious that it seems that only Christians are obliged to keep their thoughts to themselves.



THIS

64

"The objective is to win the election, with all this she has given ammo to the opposition to kill her chances of winning.  That's the problem with what she said, nothing more, nothing less."

Yes. Completely agree. 

65 One more thing: it's only oddball to the libertarian fringe, Ace. An astronomically high number of Americans believe in God. Evangelicals, Roman Catholics, etc. Make up more than 25% of the population of this country. It's your religio-philosophical ignorance that would label thus as "oddball."

66

The Lowden/Tark PUMAs will come home to Angle.  The refrigerator-box dwelling set will go for Reid (he'll push for a tax break on restapling). 

67 >>>ace, you spoke of this in your last sentence in a way that implies she said this yesterday. She said in April. To a Christian audience. I knew those things but it's surfacing now... I guess your point is that you understand why she said it (to lock down the primary). But this is dangerous business, locking oneself into statements to win a primary which will hurt in the general.

68 Here is copy of letter from Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbot and Texas Commission on Environmental Quality addressed to EPA / Lisa Jackson and Alfredo Armendariz basically telling them to go home and get your effing shine box, but first you will blow me.  HT / Newswatch:Energy Tom Fowler

69 >>>It's particularly odious that it seems that only Christians are obliged to keep their thoughts to themselves. Again: How many out-and-proud atheists are you guys supporting currently?

70 It would have been easier if she just said "many Americans have begun to place too much trust in government. If we place our faith in government instead of God, our liberty is imperiled."

71 Don't see the big deal. She's 100% correct, and it's really not remotely offensive to normal people. In fact, normal people need to learn this stuff about the libs and fast.

72 Reid professes to be Christian, so perhaps this "Angle" works.  Why does Reid want such all powerful government controlling all aspects of our lives? 

Maybe she can now clarify that her Christian beliefs are just basic "self reliance", which is what has made America strong all along.

73 O/T:  Vic, I left you some info on the Headlines thread.  Suddenly they are mentioning her way too much, wondering why and what they are saying.

74 Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:54 AM (KUUXH) I don't have any on my ballot. In fact a Reverend is running against Jesse Jackson Jr. But if it was an atheist who was conservative? I'd still vote for hem in a heartbeat. Because I'm not close-minded and prejudiced. You seem to imply that voting for a Christian is repugnant to atheists. Or at least to you. That's a shame. And again it speaks to your issues not Angle's.

75 It's particularly odious that it seems that only Christians are obliged to keep their thoughts to themselves.


Only Christian Republicans. As we've seen, Obama and his church can put their deepest Down With Whitey fantasies on DVD and get excused. And Obama talks about God all the time with not a peep from the stupid leftards.

76 >>>did Ace just post that his vote didn't count? >>>RLY? Apparently the votes of the non-religious (or non-publicly-demonstratively religious) don't count ENOUGH to bother to try to solicit them. It's the Judge Smails diet of "You'll get nothing and like it." She already HAD this constituency. She already HAS the religious. She is pounding an oddball point for a constituency she already has at the direct expense of one she doesn't.

77

It seems to me that you are grasping at straws here. We understand that you want to let everyone know that you are too sophisticated to support someone as plebian as Sharron Angle, but what exactly is odd about this comment? Once a nation decides that the government is the font of our rights, the final arbiter of our tastes, and the true owner of our property, haven't we made government into a god? I don't fault Angle for using the term "God" instead of "Big Brother" or "Leviathan", particularly when being interviewed by a Christain radio station. If the voters in Nevada are too stupid to understand a simple allegory or too bigoted to tolerate a candidate who admits that she prays, then they deserve six more years of Harry Reid.

78 >>>I don't have any on my ballot. Funny how that works. Ever notice there aren't many non-religious people on the ballot at all? Even in larger blue cities? So stuff it with the "Only Christians need be silent."

79

I wish Angle's team realises that if they hammer Reid over and over on jobs, DeathCare, the housing mess in NV... so many independents like my family get pissed, very pissed, at Harry Reid, and vow to vote against him

That's all Angle has to do.  I've seen this with my family in NV.  They frankly don't care about anything else.  What I am irritated at is with statements like this by Angle, she is giving ammo to the Reid's team when they are trying to deflect it from people's anger at Reid over the NV economy, which has now the highest unemployment in the country!

Angle already has the repub/conservative base, the independents are right of center, fiscal conservatives, that is ehat Bob Mcdonald and Christie did in VA and NJ.  Why are Angle's team not realising this?  And why has Angle herself not realised that her strenght  is going after the horrendous ecnomy in NV caused by Reid?  This is all she has to hammer on for the next 12 weeks.

80 Okay, I'm going back to my new pledge of not fighting with my very-appreciated readers in comments. I'll just say: "Reverse Pauline Kael." Many of you have trouble imagining anyone you might need the vote of would have a problem with this stuff. I would respectfully submit you make a point of endeavoring to imagine such a thing.

81 And what if she had noted the problems inherent in looking to government to solve all ills, and instead called for everyone to rely on Divine Providence, as the signers of the Declaration of Independence did? And from there point out that the change in focus is to blame for much of what ails us today? She aligns herself with the signers, contrasts herself from Harry 'the tourists are smelly' Reid, and the current Administration. How is that 'oddball', or 'extreme'?

82

Why are Angle's team not realising this?  And why has Angle herself not realised that her strenght  is going after the horrendous ecnomy in NV caused by Reid? 

It's the mark of an inexperienced candidate. I had hoped that Lowden would be the candidate, but the NV voters had their say. I don't think that Angle has fatally damaged herself, but she really does need some counsel as to staying on message.

83

Although she's technically correct, this is a statement that 'Ol Rock'em, Sock'em Robot Boxer Harry Reid will gladly pummel her with.

She really should just stick with the sad truth and keep recalling Reid's record, over and over. Point to the economy and stay on message.

Sheesh, the GOP could fuck up an anvil.

84 I fear Reid keeps his seat. Will her approach appeal to voters on the fence? Time will tell. I prefer a single narrow message repeated relentlessly, one of federal fiscal irresponsibility. "It's the spending, stupid." We'll see.

85 Okay, I'm going back to my new pledge of not fighting with my very-appreciated readers in comments.


OMG I love it when you fight with the readers. No way I'm the only one.

86

Bullshit yourself; you fail to understand the dynamic.
Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:53 AM (KUUXH)

And bullshit right back attcha, Ace.  The dynamic is that the left controls the terms of the discourse about virtually everything.  And we give them our aid and support.

If an (R) talks about religion, convictions, whatever, they are painted as idiots by the left and since that's the way the left sees them, however some on the right sees them must be wrong. 

The top two percent can afford everything, corporations are evil and religion in politics is the mark of insanity.

Was what Angle the best thing she should have said?  Absolutely not.  Was what she said so seriously stupid as to cost her the election?  We can sure as hell to our part to help to make sure that it is seen that way.

87 The Mushy Middle (MM) can be spooked either way. This message might hurt her, but it depends very much on how it is diluted by other messages from her and what is coming from other sources. If the MM feels more threatened by Reid and Dems, etc., they will vote for Angle even if she makes them a bit nervous, too. At worst this is a fart at the beach, not a fart in a business meeting. Heck, it may even draw in MM Christians. Should we doubt they exist?

88 Stick a fork in her

89

ACE, as an atheist, do you have any reason for your conviction?  I don't really care for the reason of your conviction, but is there a reason?  If so, that's cool...a religious person has a reason for their conviction that is usually based on a "good" conviction.  That's better to me if they truly believe it.  As a matter of fact that's A WHOLE HELL of a lot better than someone who's convictions are centered on government with no pursuit of anything other than that based on what you'll get by selfishly tying one's self to what you achieve here.  

 

At least a religious person has consequences attached to their decision matrix.

90 "That's what Sharron Angle, the GOP nominee for the U.S. Senate, said in an April 21 interview with TruNews Christian Radio's Rick Wiles."

Don't care, don't care, don't care. It's Angle or Reid. Mr. "The Iraq War Is Lost" has driven this country into the toilet and out to the septic tank. Nevada and the nation needs a reprieve even if a desert iguana were the only option and it busied itself chasing ants rather than power over everyone's lives. Flush the incumbent.

If Nevada votes Reid for whatever reason, they deserve the collapse they've invited.

91 Come on folks this was back in April under the old management team:

That's what Sharron Angle, the GOP nominee for the U.S. Senate, said in an April 21 interview with TruNews Christian Radio's Rick Wiles.

She was making a lot of snafus then. This paper is a Reid PR rag and if they are having to partial quote shit from an interview with a religious organization in April it shows they are desperate.

Her new campaign team is just getting started now so lets not go all eeyore and shit.

92 You know Ace you're really showing your colors here. Why is it that you demand Christians like Angle solicit to the non-religious like you? She does on political matters generally. It's only on the religious matters that she differs strongly. How exactly is a Christian supposed to solicit to the no-religious? In effect, you're demanding she either peddle atheism to you or shut up about her religious beliefs. Not only is that stifling religion and free speech, but rather disgusting. And on to no atheist candidates. Why none? Because 90% of the nation is religious. You can't get it into your head that you're in a teeny tiny minority. So there just aren't going to be a lot of atheists on the ballot. Just like there aren't a lot of gays on the ballot because they're a teeny tiny minority. Tough luck.

93

It innoculates her against the charge of being a Scientologist, which frankly would be a disqualifier.

If Reid quotes this statement in an attack ad, he'll suffer a backlash.  Naturally, the willing MFM will play up the comment, but most of those assholes are about a year away from being guillotined in the public square. 

94

Although she's technically correct, this is a statement that 'Ol Rock'em, Sock'em Robot Boxer Harry Reid will gladly pummel her with.

 

Let him.

"Christians believe in a God that cannot be seen. Reid believes in a budget that doesn't exist".

Christians believe in responsibility. Reid believes in opportunism.

Christians believe in paying debts and being faithful; to oneself, to their neighbors and strangers. Reid has no such faith. He broke that when he declared the war lost, when he cut deals and when he played the race card repeatedly.

This can be an opportunity for her to define herself, and hammer Reid from all angles. One of the two of them is in alignment with the Founders. Reid isn't it, and a savvy communications director can establish that and villify him.

95

this was from April ?? that's good, its was a couple of months ago.

  I just saw her new ad, hammered Reid on the plunging home prices in NV. This is what she needs to do, economy, economy, economy against Reid, all the time, every time.

96

Keeping Religion out of politics may be the ideal for some people, but when a Christian group/media outlet asks a politician to speak to fellow Christians about politics, it's hardly "oddball theorizing".I know many consider anyone who doesn't have a rainbow-pattern Darwin fish on their Prius to be a right wing archconservative Christian supremacist, when in reality Christians just like to talk about their faith in the context of real life issues, like lections.

If she'd made the same sort of statements to a general audience, I might buy into the "hurting the cause" theme, but I'd prefer an honest pol to one who tells us nothing of their beliefs except what passes the hyper-sensitive PC ears of those who think they are defending secularism against hordes of marauding Presbyterians and rampaging Methodists.

On an entirely different note, I'm having a great time at Smith Mtn Lake, VA but it took all week until I got a decent wifi connection. Ahhh, the lack of Internet, both a blessing and a curse.

97 Obviously we do NOT have trouble "imagining anyone you might need the vote of would have a problem with this stuff."

Since we see and hear about every day, 365.

Yes, we know that the enlightened have trouble with "this stuff".

We also assume if the enlightened are as smart as they claim to be (smarter than those odd religious people)...then why would they allow Reid to stay in office??

98 Is it too much to ask that candidates just not say stupid shit? We have become a country entrenched in idolatry  is heading into Westboro Baptist territory.

99 Eh, We need massive voter turnout for the GOP to overwhelm the VOTER FRAUD you know is coming from the DIms. So, this election is all about getting not only GOP voters out but giving independents a strong reason to vote for the GOP. I think instead of hiding, the question should be asked straight up: Is my(the candidate's) belief in God and a limited government worse for this country and the taxpayers than Harry Reid's belief in socialism, reckless spending, and burying our children and grandchildren under debt? Rinse and repeat. We need to get this message into people's minds: I Don't Care If The Candidate's a Kitten-Rapin', Human Skin Drapin' Cannibal Hillbilly. If he's Republican, I'm Voting For Him

100 agnostics are at least curious and still capable of humility.

atheism is part of the ego-centric nihilism that I (and many others) reject..

Atheism means I am my own god and should strive for elitist godhood.
Atheists see an extremist theocracy lurking behind every mention of God.
That's a problem for me when I vote for someone.


 


 

101 Many of you have trouble imagining anyone you might need the vote of would have a problem with this stuff.

True, and point taken.

102 Since it was from April, the only question is how to deal with this when the Democrats bring it up as an attack.  

It seems it can be handled as Democrats attacking her Christianity, and that Angle simply believes government should not move toward communism.  While her saying that MAY have moved her a little away from the center left, the Democrats attack would seem to move them away from the center.

Of course Reid doesn't do the attacking, but has his minions do that while he waffles.  But Angle can still be both Christian and center ... even left of center is still Christian ... just don't do any more Bible thumping. 

103 I am pretty much irreligious; don't spend much time on it, but have absolutely no problem with whatever you, or anyone, believe about religion.

That said, she is - like it or not - dead on correct.  Socialists typically renounce religion (the USSR crushed it relentlessly - all religion) precisely because it interferes with the proposition that the State is the answer to all life's problems (just as alcohol may be yours).

For those who believe in the First Commandment, her statement should resonate with you.  Essentially, belief in God (IMO anyway) is a means for you to find inner strength to solve your own problems.  The UnHoly Triumvirate (Lord Zero, Pelosi and Reid) are campaigning relentlessly for the masses to cede those efforts to them.

Believe it.

104 "If Nevada votes Reid for whatever reason, they deserve the collapse they've invited." In spades. (Oh, I denounce myself as racist, naturally.)

105

Just spoke with my relatives in NV about the new Angle ad, they loved it.  They are all pissed at Harry Reid again. 

I hadn't spoken to them in a couple of months, looks like I was wrong, people are getting more pissed at Reid, apparently foreclosures are up even more in NV since the housing tax credits have expired.

 Angle needs to keep hammering that idiot Reid on this.  Looks like my relatives are indeed voting for Angle now.... if nothing else as a protest vote against Reid, they told me they even have an Angle bumper sticker now.

106 Sharron UNLEASHED

107 Sharron UNLEASHED

Posted by: denny crane

Speaking of leashes, Who is in charge of walking your mom this morning? It can't be you, since you're obviously screwing off in the basement again.

108

Is it too much to ask that candidates just not say stupid shit? We have become a country entrenched in idolatry  is heading into Westboro Baptist territory.

Um, no, we're not becoming like those lunatics. But that's the image that the left tries to paint of everyone who even dares utter the G-word.

It's time for that shit to stop. Most of us don't care what or who you believe in, if you're a good person, that's what really counts.

109 @100 naturalfake

O/T, but thanks so much for your Pickle-Yeller post.

110

To believe in God, one must reject a certain amount of reason and replace it with faith.

To the atheist or agnostic, a politician who espouses religious conviction is at the same time expressing their own rejection of reason.  The extent to which we think that politician has abandoned reason in favor of religious fatih is of great concern to us. 

111

And these programs that you mentioned -- that Obama has going with Reid and Pelosi pushing them forward -- are all entitlement programs built to make government our God.

How is that any different that what is said here almost every day? It isn't.

The hard core atheist will be voting for Reid anyway. Screw 'em!

112 It appears that attacking her Christianity is fine and dandy...even here.

So obviously if her own will not defend her, they will let the commies rape, beat her  and leave her for dead in the town square (Palin)....and no one on the Right will even cover her up, just as the Right does to all their candidates under attack.

Especially the rightwing men....always sniveling, never acting.

Typical...which is why it has come to this in the first place.

113 You know what it's like having Denebian crotch drip? It's as bad as Klingon syphilis. Well, I pooched everything in sight on a hundred worlds, so I guess my junk earned some battle scars. Except now I have to pee through a catheter in my leg. Maybe I should have stayed a troll in granny's den, surfing /b/.

114

Many of you have trouble imagining anyone you might need the vote of would have a problem with this stuff.

 And I've had problems dealing with Politicians who blithely refer to the extermination of babies as 'reproductive rights'. In fact, I'm going to be voting for one in the Fall (Mike Castle). But I've done it before and I'll do it again. Because in the grand scheme of things, I think that it's needed. And such quandries happen quite often, and Christians are expected to deal with it.

115 The hard core atheist will be voting for Reid anyway. Screw 'em!

I disagree.  Atheists come in all flavors - some want the State to take care of them; others are quite content to take care of themselves.  The latter have no tolerance for Reid or any other Socialist.

116 Pelosi gets a pass because no one believes her expressions of faith (and considering how dumb they are, they shouldn't).

Think about that:  They support her because she's lying about it.

117 An Atheist might argue that Christians are enslaved by a meme, held captive by, amongst other things, a Reward-Punishment System that says, "Believe and Obey and you will be Rewarded. Fail to Believe and Fail to Obey and you will be Punished." Do we really need to turn this into a C vs. A fight?

118

The hard core atheist will be voting for Reid anyway. Screw 'em!

Yeah, that's how you win elections and build coalitions to achieve your objectives.  How about the Jews, screw them too?  And how about those dirty Catholics, they are pretty iffy also no?

 

119 I am a hardcore atheist and I will never, ever vote Democrat, nor will I ever throw my vote away on a third party.  So much for that stereotype.

120

"so you abandon reason with faith"...it is a faith in something that is tangibly good as opposed to an aethiest who has a "good" faith in what outcome?

 

I'm just asking...what do aethiests believe in that give consequences to their actions that merit trust as those of a faith that their actions have consequences?

 

I'm no bible thumper, but I'll take the religious people since this isn't the 1,400's

121 114

So, you say our Founding Fathers rejected reason for faith, and we should have a problem with men like that?

Wow, a fine example of government schooling.

122 ace: "Such statements actually pull her (superficially) closer to the American cultural center. A tiny bit."

No it doesn't. It reinforces just how full of shit she [Nancy Pelosi] is. She's lying - and doing it unconvincingly - and the overwhelmingly religious majority of voters know that taking religion (manifestly "God") in vain is a sin. Or they recognize that it's all a pandering lie and that's enough by itself.

I'd interpret that as a position that distances Pelosi from the masses. Angle, contrarily, seems to be speaking sincerely which, in a deeply religious (even if not expressed overtly and publicly) America will get people to listen and probably sympathize. Is it too religious or too biased to one particular religious sect such that it turns voters off? I dunno, but remember in this new "context driven" world we supposedly now embrace must recognize her whole message - that being that government is becoming our new god. That's a pretty universally understood and appreciated message today. The Progressives know it to be true and want the new god; everyone else is coming to know that to be true and reject it. Everyone else also vastly outnumber the Progressives even if some might find the exact wording a bit clumsy.

123 Wow - a Christian talking Christianity - the nerve!

124

Is it too much to ask that candidates just not say stupid shit? We have become a country entrenched in idolatry  is heading into Westboro Baptist territory.

 

Apparantly, it is an impossibility for you not to equate anyone who espouses religious beliefs with an organized conspiracy to drum up lawsuits for fun, fame and profit. Because the vermin you mention are that; nothing more. It would be more apt to compare these syphilitic scum with the ACLU, as their methods and utter lack of regard for the rest of humanity are very similar.

125 I think this is a nothingburger, certainly not shocking, and the more the left tries to bash her, it will morph into religious intolerance very quickly. She has 90 days to keep pounding 'It's the economy, stupid.' and her first ad out yesterday goes along with that. 90 days is a long time for this 'shocking' statement to be covered over with more and more economic bashing of Reid. Stay thirsty my friends.

126 Ace, i you are ever on a ballot, I'll support you, as far as I can under your laws (I suspect, as a Canadian My support would have to be non material) However, how many conservative atheists are there who are willing to run for public office? I know that there has not been a atheistic who has tried to be a candidate locally. Also - everyone disagrees as to which things are dumb. There is no way a conservative will not be accused of saying dumb stuff. The only pass they will ever get from the media is when they agree with the liberal agenda.

127

 They support her because she's lying about it.
Yup, and apparently that's supposed to be the go-to position for Republicans as well. It's interesting that her Religious beliefs will absolutely be used as a test of her suitability for office by those who claim that Religion and Politics should never mix.

128 I suppose that if she were a Muslim, it would have been okay for her to say similar things--and it would be RAAAACISM to speak against it. Yes, it would have been better for her to tone down the rhetoric, but in effect she's right; the Left wants us to be beholden to the Government, and are doing this by making us as wholly dependent on Big Gov't as possible.

129 123

The hard core atheist will be voting for Reid anyway. Screw 'em!

Yeah, that's how you win elections and build coalitions to achieve your objectives.  How about the Jews, screw them too?  And how about those dirty Catholics, they are pretty iffy also no?

 

Posted by: motionview at August 05, 2010 11:32 AM (lKDF0)

It's just the dirty atheists I would exclude. Most atheists have no idea of how little regard they are held in by the rest of normal America.

130 Angle is a rare breed.  Rare is the social con that uses biblical reasoning to discover smaller government and fiscal conservatism.  Those types seem to usually go the other direction.  I like this chick and I'd love to hear her deliver a verbal smack down to the Maine sisters and KBH in the senate.

131 I thought they told me she was a Scientologist, didn't they?

132

Apparantly, it is an impossibility for you not to equate anyone who espouses religious beliefs

That's just not the case - I am a scientist, but my greatest heroes are all religious men - Solzhenitsyn, John Paul 2, and Ronald Reagan.  It depends on what the religious belief is, and when you start invoking idolatry you've gone off the deep end for me.

133 114

To believe in God, one must reject a certain amount of reason and replace it with faith.

To the atheist or agnostic, a politician who espouses religious conviction is at the same time expressing their own rejection of reason.  The extent to which we think that politician has abandoned reason in favor of religious fatih is of great concern to us. 

Stupid knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, unreasonable Christianists.  If they have to fall for that hokey fairy tale shit, why can't they just keep their ignorance to themselves, huh?

Let our enlightenment shine.

134 Of course Reid doesn't do the attacking, but has his minions do that while he waffles.

This is something that ALL the Republicans need to learn how to combat.  This was basically an attack ad launched by a Las Vegas newspaper in the form of "news".  In a world with justice this would be considered an in-kind contribution worth a lot of money and the newspaper would be prosecuted. But since that is not going to happen beacsue there is no justice this is what they need to do.

Spin this ad right back in their faces with something like this.

Sure I made some statements to a religious affiliated radio program concerning my faith. At least I have a faith that is not complete conversion to communism.

That faith by Harry Reid, Nancy Peolis, and Obama have caused the city of Las Vegas to become a virtual ghost town and destroyed the economy in this State.  Unemployment is at record highs and all you hear from that terrible trio is more of the same.

So don't listen to attack ads put forth in a Reid dominated paper in the form of phony news. Lets get rid of socialism in the Senate, lets get rid of Harry Reid!

135 It depends on what the religious belief is, and when you start invoking idolatry you've gone off the deep end for me.

Posted by: motionview at August 05, 2010 11:37 AM (lKDF0)

Any expression of religious belief would be too much for people like you.

136 I knew those things but it's surfacing now... I guess your point is that you understand why she said it (to lock down the primary).

But this is dangerous business, locking oneself into statements to win a primary which will hurt in the general.

Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:56 AM (KUUXH)

Ace for candidates everything is a trade off. I would agree that I don't think there is any need to pound this in the general and it's might not be too helpful to do so but this is Nevada, not New York. The upside for her for the primary more than outweighed the downside in the general, at least in Nevada.

137

Apparantly, it is an impossibility for you not to equate anyone who espouses religious beliefs

That's just not the case - I am a scientist, but my greatest heroes are all religious men - Solzhenitsyn, John Paul 2, and Ronald Reagan.  It depends on what the religious belief is, and when you start invoking idolatry you've gone off the deep end for me.

Posted by: motionview

 

The reference to the lawsuit trolling scum does not fit. And yet you chose to include it. They do not propose or decry idolatry; they shout hatred and abuse and collect money when they've enraged mourners at funerals. If they can get a cop to act, then they've tapped deeper pockets. You claim to be a scientist, but show no causal relationship between the speech given by Angle and the predatory tactice of these thugs.

138 How long until she's a "Creationist"? Or did they already use that one?

139

@126

So, you say our Founding Fathers rejected reason for faith, and we should have a problem with men like that?

Wow, a fine example of government schooling.

Wow, a fine example of an insult in the place of a reasoned counter-argument... but I stand by my definition of faith.  It is belief in spite of reason.  Sorry if that definition bothers you.

140 motionview: "We have become a country entrenched in idolatry is heading into Westboro Baptist territory."

I nominate this to be the Most Ridiculous Statement of the Day™. Or Hyperbole Most Unbecoming in a Blog™.

141 Wow, a fine example of an insult in the place of a reasoned counter-argument... but I stand by my definition of faith.  It is belief in spite of reason.  Sorry if that definition bothers you.

Posted by: weew at August 05, 2010 11:43 AM (p05LM)

It bothers people when atheists lie try to claim all the founding fathers as their own, when in fact, none of them were. You, and people like you, are every bit as much a threat to religious freedom than the most ardent theocracy that you claim to fight against and your beliefs are direct opposition to the ideals that this country was founded upon.

142

Thank you Tea Partiers for nominating this absolute fucking trainwreck.  Just when you thought Angle couldn't fit any more feet in her mouth, she says something that reaffirms what an absolute fucking disaster she is for the Republican Party.  Please, after more bullshit from this retarded dingbat, it is impossible to argue that the Tea Party hasn't done waaay more harm than good in this case.  Angle is so fucking clueless, I would be amazed if she could be elected dog catcher after this pathetic excuse for a campaign.  Sue Lowden and Danny Tarkanian would be burying Reid in the polls now.   

We are supposed to depend on God for our daily bread and protection?  Bullshit.  We should be depending on ourselves.  I get so fucking sick and tired of politicians who act as if a belief in Jesus is a prerequisite to being a good person and a good politician. 

This woman is a total fucking joke, and if she weren't running against one of the biggest douchebags on earth, I would be wishing for her to lose.   Tea Parties, please go the fuck away.

143 There's nothing quite so sad (or boring) as a fundamentalist atheist.

144 I stand by my definition of faith. It is belief in spite of reason

. Posted by: weew at August 05, 2010 11:43 AM (p05LM)

Do you have faith in that definition? Because it sounds a lot like all belief is a cover-up for insecurity.

145 You made the charge Weew, explain yourself.

You said men of faith are not men of reason (our Founding Fathers).

146 If indeed it requires seeing the 1st Amendment as a commandment, particularly supremely superior to an executive order or something so vulgar as a "policy" (to refuse any enforcement of law, to dissolve the concept of contract law), then there it is.

147

144...faith is "belief in spite of reason"

 

reason which tells you random chance is a more probable outcome for humanity than that of a creator of some sort. 

 

Yes, you are too deep a thinker for everyone else.

148

Jim in San Diego: "It's just the dirty atheists I would exclude. Most atheists have no idea of how little regard they are held in by the rest of normal America."

Yikes. As an agnostic (which to me translates to a scientific appreciation for not knowing enough - now or probably ever - to accept atheism outright), I take offense at your calling me "dirty". I bathe just like everyone else... every Friday night in the gutter after a good hobo hunt whether I need to or not.

149

Don't we all want Reid beaten in Nov.????  So why on earth are we helping tear down the candidate on our side that has been chosen to face Reid???  Ok, she may of said some things that are cringe worthy, but that doesn't change the fact that she needs our full support to take down Reid.  This is exactly what happened to Palin, we let the left tell us who she is and instead of pulling behind her we went along with them.  Maybe if some of us on the Right would stop agreeing with the left in defining our candidates, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.   

150

This woman is a total fucking joke, and if she weren't running against one of the biggest douchebags on earth, I would be wishing for her to lose.   Tea Parties, please go the fuck away.

Posted by: Bob

 

Dear Bob,

 

Fuck you too. And, since we also live here, we're not going anywhere.

151

I couldn't care less if Sharron Angle is a Christian, but it does piss me off when politicians start implying that there is something wrong with people who don't share their beliefs and that is exactly what she is doing with her asinine "we should be depending on Jesus" bullshit.

 

 

152

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 05, 2010 11:53 AM (swuwV)

Refer back to the post I was answering for a clue as to my word choice. I was mocking motionview

153

"Don't we all want Reid beaten in Nov.????  So why on earth are we helping tear down the candidate on our side that has been chosen to face Reid???  Ok, she may of said some things that are cringe worthy, but that doesn't change the fact that she needs our full support to take down Reid.  This is exactly what happened to Palin, we let the left tell us who she is and instead of pulling behind her we went along with them.  Maybe if some of us on the Right would stop agreeing with the left in defining our candidates, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in."

 

THIS...   

154 Bob @ 11:50

You fail to note that ONLY the Tea Party candidates ran against Reid.

So getting all bent out of shape over Angle's personal faith is really the smart thing to do, especially since her agenda is to reinstate the supremacy of the US Constitution understood as a constructionist.

Where's your tolerance? Spent proving your not a racist or homophobe? 

Even Christopher Hitchens is expressing gratitude for prayer groups given his dire health.

155 Hey Bob...maybe the Tea Partiers were just sick of keyboard warriors like you that have done jack to save this county.

As evidenced by the elections of Marxist commies who have infiltrated every inch of the US government and society, for the last 40 years.

At least some real Americans are trying to do more than just snivel and throw spit balls from the sidelines.

And maybe some REAL men of ACTION will rise up from this new found activism of the Tea Party.

156 So Angle depends on Jesus, and calls out for help defeating the viper Reid.

Stone her! Crucify! NOT.

157 Posted by: MikeO at August 05, 2010 11:25 AM (lBmZl) Wow, good memory. I like that one myself. And... You're welcome!

158 No need to reply to Bob; He's been on several times now and he only attacks Tea Party members and real conservatives.

He is the new equivalent of the "concerned Tea Party conservative".

It is best to ignore these people.

159 So Sharron Angle talked about God again? I thought the people in Nevada were supposed to be more sophisticated than <a href="http://tinyurl.com/5vp743">this</a>.

160 Oh heck, I forgot, we can't use regular html like everyone else. Let me see....

http://tinyurl.com/5vp743

161 Jim in San Diego@158,

No offense taken 'cept for the "dirty" bit. That really hurt.

But, yeah, militant atheism is offensive just as is militant deism. Free will won't be won over via clubbing people upside the head.

162

What she said isn't the problem -- actually there's a lot to agree with (and I am not religious, but I can see where it is very unhealthy to "worship" the state if you want a free society).

I just wish she had couched it in other terms...I would dearly love to see Dingy Harry ousted; this woman is making that dream a little less likely when she makes comments that can be twisted like this one.  Aye me...

163 Jeez, Ace had to be labeled a conservative douchebag for dutifully defending Sherrod a few weeks ago, now this. There's vinegar all over my monitor.

Stop cooperating with the Reid campaign, douchebag.

164

I am running because our government spends too much money, is involved in too much of your daily life and has grown too big. I have faith that on November 2nd, you will see this and agree with me, that we need a government that lives within its means, that provides opportunties and jobs for the people of Nevada, not government red tape and bureacrats. I have faith in you.

I'm Sharon Angel, and I approve this message.

 

Posted by: Mallamutt

 

Wish I'd said that. Well, I did, but you crushed the ball.

165 But, yeah, militant atheism is offensive just as is militant deism. Free will won't be won over via clubbing people upside the head.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 05, 2010 12:04 PM (swuwV)

There is enlightenment via reasoned discourse, and there are troll beat-downs. I was practicing the latter.

166 The problem is that many voters say they want grassroots candidates who aren't part of the Beltway elite, but they still prefer candidates who speak in slick, non-committal, easily digested soundbites. Candidates like Angle, honest and less polished, scare these little sheep; but she can't get elected without them.  So she needs to learn how to frame her message (which should be Reid's record and the economy, the economy, the economy) in terms that the average lazy-ass voter can understand and that the MFM will find more difficult to present in the worst possible light, their new-found interest in "context" notwithstanding.

167 6, 44, 48, 59, 60, 82, ahhh, fuck, I'm losing count of all the douchebags in this thread.

Shut yer fucking nozzles, NOW! You are doing exactly what the Reid supporters want you to. Tools!

168

172 Activist atheists are like the race hustlers.  They see a fundamentalist around every corner trying to convert them.

That's just silly.  Had many atheists come knocking on your door, asking you to read their tracts journals and join their churches science clubs?  Do you know of any atheist group that sends all of it's young men out on mission for a year?  And did you happen to notice that the two most famous race hustlers in this country are Reverends?

169

... I have faith that on November 2nd, you will see this and agree with me, that we need a government that lives within its means, that provides opportunties and jobs for the people of Nevada, not government red tape and bureacrats. I have faith in you.

I'm Sharon Angel, and I approve this message.

 Posted by: Mallamutt at August 05, 2010 11:57 AM (OWjjx)

Love it.  You should email this to her campaign.

170

To believe in God, one must reject a certain amount of reason and replace it with faith.

To the atheist or agnostic, a politician who espouses religious conviction is at the same time expressing their own rejection of reason.

Spoken like a true technocrat.  How's that working out for humanity again?

171 too exotic = retarded tea partier?

172 She's right. Its just that she's not saying things that appeal to a broad enough group of people - in other words, she's not sufficiently deceptive and manipulative to succeed in politics.

173

172 Activist atheists are like the race hustlers.  They see a fundamentalist around every corner trying to convert them.

That's just silly.  Had many atheists come knocking on your door, asking you to read their tracts journals and join their churches science clubs?  Do you know of any atheist group that sends all of it's young men out on mission for a year?  And did you happen to notice that the two most famous race hustlers in this country are Reverends?

Posted by: motionview

1. You have the nerve to automatically equate atheism with science. Some of the most rabid athiests abhor the scientific method (ex: Most communists, my brother in law, many adherents of AGW).

2. Curently the most famous race hustler in this country is Barrack Obama.

174 Oh right, people who don't believe in God don't count, and apparently our votes are too dirty to be solicited.

Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 10:48 AM (KUUXH)

Don't be dense, Ace. It's the truth about what she believes, which is what we want to know about pols before elections, so we can make informed decisions without the tea-leave reading.

175 You know who really rejects reason? Those millions of Christians who spend their entire lives serving others for no reason greater than their faith compels them to help the needy. Feeding people all over the world, clothing the poor, raising and educating the abandoned, and that's just half the radical whackery they engage in. Someone should lock them all up before they end up hurting (or God forbid, converting) someone.

176 176

172 Activist atheists are like the race hustlers.  They see a fundamentalist around every corner trying to convert them.

That's just silly.  Had many atheists come knocking on your door, asking you to read their tracts journals and join their churches science clubs?  Do you know of any atheist group that sends all of it's young men out on mission for a year?  And did you happen to notice that the two most famous race hustlers in this country are Reverends?

Posted by: motionview at August 05, 2010 12:10 PM (lKDF0)

Motionview, you are a proselytizing atheist. So in that respect, you have more in common with the people you hate than you do with your stated position.

Finally, your own blog that you link to in your sig says it all.

We assume you are already fired up; this is where you come to do the actual firing. We have a specific objective: Fire Fifty members of Congress in 2010 and take control of the House away from the Democrats - and the Republicans.

If you really WANTED to "fire" Harry Reid, you would be working for his ouster and not trying to tear down his opponent. You sir, are a liar and have no credibility here. You are advocating a Dem 'front' that only wishes to split the conservative vote.

177 Had many atheists come knocking on your door, asking you to read their tracts journals and join their churches science clubs?

They don't need to.  Instead, they suck taxpayer dollars out of my bank account through their grants, stipends, and government salaries to line their pockets as they promote their godless faith of AGWism.  It's less taxing than running the tent revival circuit.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything."
  --  GK Chesterton

178 You made the charge Weew, explain yourself.

You said men of faith are not men of reason (our Founding Fathers).

I never said that... remember, I'm an atheist, but not a liberal (i.e. not your enemy).  I said the extent to which people swap reason for faith is of concern.  The Founders did not establish a theocracy; they cherished Liberty above all else. Liberty is the only morality I care to see our politicians vow to uphold.

That said, I consider the left to be the much greater and more dangerous evil.  A Christian politician will be much more likely to leave me the F alone. I just wish we as voters had more of a choice.

179

You have the nerve to automatically equate atheism with science

Science is based on reason and explicitly rejects faith.  We started to lie to you that science and religion were compatible so that you would stop burning us at the stake.

 

180

This was a really dumb Angle to play....I get what's she's saying and while it doesn't offend me, it DOES offend other. Further, it scares and plays into the left's message about bible-thumping right-wingers wanting to run your life.

Sadly, perception is reality in today's world and the stupid party really needs to learn this lesson once and for all. Knocking Ried out would be great but Sharon doesn't stand a chance unless she's wises up quickly.

181 Before his first commercial break, Rush agreed with what Angle said.

182

....It's just that she's not saying things that appeal to a broad enough group of people....

Actually, though, in THIS PARTICULAR CASE, she was doing an interview with a Christian radio station, so she was appealing to EXACTLY the group of people that she was expecting to reach on that particular day.

Notice that the reporter said that they had to "dig" to find this - it must have been exquisitely painful for said reporter to have to listen to this, so I'm perversely giggling......

And as someone mentioned in an earlier comment, this interview was from APRIL.  Reid's campaign is getting really desperate if this is all they can come up with!

183 Apparently the votes of the non-religious (or non-publicly-demonstratively religious) don't count ENOUGH to bother to try to solicit them. It's the Judge Smails diet of "You'll get nothing and like it."

She already HAD this constituency. She already HAS the religious. She is pounding an oddball point for a constituency she already has at the direct expense of one she doesn't.

Posted by: ace at August 05, 2010 11:00 AM (KUUXH)

Enough to solicit them as athiests yeah, those don't count, because the hard core athiests are a pretty small minority and entirely left anyway. Those non-believers who simply don't believe, or more widely don't care? They ARE solicitied, but on the ideas that they actually DO care about, such as lower taxes, smaller government, stronger military, or the reverse as the case may be.

Only athiests who are motivated specifically by an absurd fear or personal distate of Christians are going to be alarmed or feel neglected by this. The others can look to see if they agree or not with the policy, and if so be glad it is personal convictions that tie her to those beliefs rather than poll numbers that vary by the wind.

184 Only athiests who are motivated specifically by an absurd fear or personal distate of Christians are going to be alarmed or feel neglected by this.

One other bright spot:  When Angle wins, tell every lefty you know that she won because of these remarks.

I did the same here in Virginia when McDonnell won.  I told lefties that there was no doubt that McDonnell's master's thesis got evangelicals to the polls since the WaPo gave it so much play.  I also always comment that the dark curtain of theocratic dictatorship cannot be far behind.

That makes lefties' heads explode.

Cognitive resonance is your friend.

185

You have the nerve to automatically equate atheism with science

Science is based on reason and explicitly rejects faith.  We started to lie to you that science and religion were compatible so that you would stop burning us at the stake.

 

Posted by: motionview

First, your assertion of 'we' is a lie. Second, that denies the achievements of Churchmen who advanced science. Third, it contradicts your own earlier comment about scientists also being men of faith.

If you are really a scientist, I hope that you're not handling anything corrosive, combustible or transmittable via the air.

 

Other than that, have a nice day.

186 This entire thread is an exercise in punching down.

187 134 Angle is a rare breed.  Rare is the social con that uses biblical reasoning to discover smaller government and fiscal conservatism.  Those types seem to usually go the other direction.  I like this chick and I'd love to hear her deliver a verbal smack down to the Maine sisters and KBH in the senate.

Posted by: John Galt at August 05, 2010 11:36 AM (F/4zf)

Heh, or an Angle-huckabee smackdown?

188 Weew...then what man of faith ( who has power over you), have you encountered who has abandoned all  reason?

Who are you so "concerned" about?

189 This is what you get when you encourage nutbars to believe that they are actually 'normal'. The truth is that nutbarism is pretty much forever. I almost hope that Reid wins in Nevada even though he is an ignorant tool. Angle is FAR too stupid and insular to be a Senator or a Congressperson, or really, much of anything where she might have any impact on others. And being too stupid and uncontrolled for Congress, is definitely falling below an already REALLY low bar. Is this the opposition to Obama ? You had best hope not, because all it does is make him look good in comparison. Deny it all you want ----- you know it's true.

190

First, your assertion of 'we' is a lie.

Well reasoned, compelling argument.

Second, that denies the achievements of Churchmen who advanced science.

Third, it contradicts your own earlier comment about scientists also being men of faith.

Must have been someone else.

191 148

Thank you Tea Partiers for nominating this absolute fucking trainwreck.  Just when you thought Angle couldn't fit any more feet in her mouth, she says something that reaffirms what an absolute fucking disaster she is for the Republican Party.  Please, after more bullshit from this retarded dingbat, it is impossible to argue that the Tea Party hasn't done waaay more harm than good in this case. 

Glances at address bar. Oh thank someone, I thought I was back at LGF for a moment.

192 motionview: "Science is based on reason and explicitly rejects faith."

In the hypothesized abstract, that's true by definition. In practice it's not and it doesn't. I've seen considerable faith in science where its priests hide behind the presumption and public facade of reason only to worship secretly their own creations.

But we digress.

193

 I said nothing of atheists trying to convert me.  I said you think every religious person or statement is an attempt to convert you

I certainly never said that; your faith must have led you to that insight.

194

 Had many atheists come knocking on your door, asking you to read their tracts journals and join their churches science clubs?

Why would they need to? They run every public school and college in America.

195

First, your assertion of 'we' is a lie.

Well reasoned, compelling argument.

Posted by: motionview

It is, to a man of science. You cannot prove that you have detered any burnings at the stake, or any violence remotely similar. Nor did you provide any proof that anyone was ever burned at the stake for being a scientist. You made an assertion for which you provided no proof. And like your earlier smear regarding the lawsuit loving thugs, you sought to slander all persons of faith with the actions of others.

For a guy who claims to have religous people as heros, you manage to inflict a great deal of poorly directed hatred at any and all religion.

196 There's nothing wrong with what Angle said, and many a secular commenter has noted that the drive by the left is to replace religion with government.

I don't see what anyone could find offensive in Angle's comments.  They are true, and framed in an interesting way. Only the annoying, constantly whining atheists would be perturbed by these statements.

197

It's an outrage when Republicans claim that their political positions derive from their Christian faith!

198 Weew...then what man of faith ( who has power over you), have you encountered who has abandoned all  reason?

Who are you so "concerned" about?

I don't see where I ever suggested that any politician has abandoned ALL reason for faith.  The closest examples I can cite would be leftists who practice the religion of the state, which I  believe to be the greater evil.  I just wish we didn't have the shitty choice between lefty collectivists or faithful believers.

Somehow I don't think my answer will satisfy you, and that nothing less than my full conversion to Christianity and subsequent penance will secure your approval. So, kindly piss up a rope.

199 She should have gone to Reverend Wright's church. Then she could say moderately religious stuff like this and have everyone go,

"Well, at least she's not spouting off crazy stuff like her pastor!"

That's how I did it.

200

178

Spoken like a true technocrat.  How's that working out for humanity again?

heh do you really want to examine how well religion has worked for humanity? Do we really have to go there? Let's not and say we did.

Instead, I propose we focus on the one entity that has historically preserved the most liberty by imposing the LEAST amount of social or religious whim on its people (the American constitutional republic) - and the amount of prosperity and collective elevation of the stantard of living its result has offered humanity.

201

183 Well said, those who are living testament to Christ's ministry truly are deranged in the eyes of a materialistic and ego-driven world. St. Francis of Assisi's own father locked him up because he disinherited himself in order to give his wealth to the poor.

Someone upthread said they'd have a better chance of being left alone by a Christian than by a commie, and that really is the heart of the argument. Unless there's something in Angle's past that demonstrates a  behavior pattern of forcibly converting citizens to ANY faith, then who the bleep cares what she believes? It's not like she's scaring the shit out of us to try and carbon tax us.

 

202

heh do you really want to examine how well religion has worked for humanity? Do we really have to go there? Let's not and say we did.

Instead, I propose we focus on the one entity that has historically preserved the most liberty by imposing the LEAST amount of social or religious whim on its people (the American constitutional republic) - and the amount of prosperity and collective elevation of the stantard of living its result has offered humanity.

Posted by: weew

 

Wrong again. When independence was declared, the signers placed their reliance in Divine Providence. Many of these same men "ordained and established" a constitution. You correctly identify The United States as one of the greatest agents of freedom and opportunity in the world. But you ignore the central position that faith had in the formation of this country, and the ability to worship and co-exist that this country afforded. That ability was one of the many reasons people in their millions emigrated here. Indeed, you present the false arguement, with no proof, that it was a lack of faith that was a causal factor.

 

 I would welcome the contrast between countries that were religious and those that were irreligious, and examine the impact upon the 20th century. The death toll in the second World War eclipses the abuses of the Church during the Inquisition, or Catholic/Protestant struggles that were not merely religious in nature.

203

Well said, those who are living testament to Christ's ministry truly are deranged in the eyes of a materialistic and ego-driven world. St. Francis of Assisi's own father locked him up because he disinherited himself in order to give his wealth to the poor.

I disagree; anyone who pursues a life of ministry is doing what they want with their own life. Fine... go and minister and be fulfilled. No skin off my back.

But when it comes to handing over the levers of government power, funding, and policy... I as a voter am left to wonder from where the candidate will reach their conclusions and make decisions.  I lament that most of the atheists out there are batshit liberals, and most conservatives, when searching for the right course of action, rely on a belief system that I find to be just as invalid and unreasonable as collectivism.

I find reason to be inherently conservative; it states that:
- overtaxation stifles economic growth
- unchecked illegal immigration is insustainable
- ignoring a motivated enemy is inviting trouble
- the more that govt influences business, the more valuable govt influence becomes to business (leading to corruption)
- the private sector always outperfomres the public sector
- Liberty is always the moral choice

I believe these things to be true because they make logical sense, and not because a mob wills it or because someone claims that a diety said so. So when I hear a conservative politician go on about religion, I cringe because they missed an opportunity to make a powerful logical arguiment for conservatism.  Fine, go ahead and beat me up for saying that one must shed reason to the extent that they adopt faith... it's true. 

204

Indeed, you present the false arguement, with no proof, that it was a lack of faith that was a causal factor.

No, I'm saying that the lack of IMPOSED faith contributed to prosperity. 

Futhermore, just because secular collectivist regimes murdered more people in history than religions have (arguable... can we include all history and continents... e.g. the Mayans who cut out the living hearts of men to feed to the sun?) it doesn't mean they're somehow better... they just have a slightly less horrifying track record.  If I'm not mistaken, the Nazis, Fascists and Communists weren't big fans of Liberty either.

Man, this thread has gone off in a crazy tangent.  I didn't mean to kick the Christian wasp nest that hard... no wonder the lefties think you're all nuts.

205 heh do you really want to examine how well religion has worked for humanity? Do we really have to go there? Let's not and say we did.

Yeah, let's.  Because it's not an argument you're going to win.  Religious faith has freed more people, fed more people, clothed more people, inspired more people, and saved more people than every secular humanist notion combined.  Humanity would be utterly, totally lost without it.

But thanks for stopping by.  Back to the freaky fringe for you.

206

Oh I see... I believe in low taxation, secure borders, strong national defense, the deregulation of business, basically everything on the conservative platform... but because I don't share your faith I get sent to the "freaky fringe"

Wow.

 

207

I suspect many Christians are sensative these days due to the fact that Christians seem to be the only target that can be ridiculed, mocked and made fun of with impunity.

Agreed.  Christianity, for all its faults, is infinitely less benign than Islam... at least Christianity has managed to evolve past the 7th century. But you make a good point about about those who only pick on Christianity... imagine a Muslim political candidate going on about how much their religion plays a role in their decision making.  How comfy would everyone feel about that?

 

So, for all who feel any denial of faith is a direct assault on your religion, my advice is....ignore it. If you are secure enough in your faith, then its nothing more than a test of your faith, one you should be able to pass.

Amen! (heh)

Just because I'm atheist it doesn't mean I seek to abolish religion, as that would be an affront to Liberty.  Just because my atheism comes into play when evaluating political candidates, it doesn't mean I'll reflexively support the liberal candidate (God forbid!) (heh).

I guess if anything I'm trying to tell my conservative bretheren that not all atheists are liberals, and not all conservatives are religious... and to proceed as though it were so is to miss an opportunity to gain support.

208

I'd go so far as to say that if Alan Keyes wasn't so outsopkenly religious as a political candidate, perhaps we wouldn't be dealing with a President Obama today.

209

By what reasoning do you prove the non existence of  God?

oh man you can't be serious. I cannot disprove the existence of God any more than I can disprove the existence of a 100-foot tall polka dotted chicken who lives on the moon. Jeez, it must therefore be true, huh?

210 It's not the "being outspoken about religion" aspect that causes the problem.  It's the greater context. If you are frequently scaring folks with hardcore statements like "sodomy is a sin" rather than a more gentle "hate the sin, but love the sinner" statement, you aren't going to attract voters.

That's why Keyes got zero traction. Guys like Reagan and Chris Christie are masters at avoiding the hard line on things that are hotly disputed notions about human behavior. They find the areas where it's safe to draw bright, hard lines, like "We cannot continue spending".

Notice how Clinton and Reagan were both fairly vague on religion.

211 I don't get it.  I really don't get it.  Angle is speaking to a CHRISTIAN radio station which probably has a 95% or higher rate of CHRISTIAN listeners and she's expected to not say anything about God?

There is absolutely NO guarantee that Christians were going to vote for her in the first place.  It wasn't thousands of only atheist votes putting Reid in office term after term.

I'm sorry, but I see nothing wrong with her bringing God into the equation in front of a Christian audience.

212 So what are our choices? - statist, collectivist elitists - religious believers What of the secular conservatives? Do they not have a home?

213 #222-agree 100% with your thinking.  For you others: just think how many Democrats will vote for Alvin Greene because he has a D behind his name.  If you have to, vote for Angle because she has an R behind hers. What other option do you have?  Reid? Don't vote? She may not be perfect but she's better than the alternative.

214 so good!