1 you lie... cnn said the booboo was all better.

2 at least it will allow me to sell off at a profit than a loss. 

3 An upsurge in the equities markets means a healthier 401(k) for most average folks

That's great, until the feds want to take them away to shore up Social Security.

This debt crisis is just beginning.

4

Monsantos has taking a massive dive in recent weeks, capped off by a 7% drop today.

i guess people aren't using chemicals on their lawns this year.

5 Is the Dow up?  I thought it had its lowest close of the year yesterday.  After dropping 1000 points in an hour and a half earlier in the month because everyone knows the current levels are bullshit.

6

An upsurge in the equities markets means a healthier 401(k) for most average folks

That's great, until the feds want to take them away to shore up Social Security.

This debt crisis is just beginning.

and what usually follows a crisis?

7 Joe Taxpayer? Whew! Scared me for a minute! Lucky for me I'm Jim  Taxpayer.
Freakin' Joe & Jane are self-indulgent asshats, anyway, so screw them.

8

...he snarked as the stock market _*ahem* corrects itself.

9 #3

So what's your point? That in the end, there will be only chaos?

10 And if we send all the illegals home our economy will COLLAPSE!!!!

Wait, no, just a second.  That's not what I meant to say.  Let's see.... *thumbs through current talking points*

Oh yes, here we go.

Uh, I'm suspending my campaign for Senator until we figure this thing out!  Fight with me!

11 "That's great, until the feds want to take them away to shore up Social Security."

Forget taking the 401k away.  All the fed have to do is screw us with enough inflation.

12

Easy solution:  just print more money.

 

It's worked before, right?

13 The good news? Our children won't have to pay off our debts after all. The bad news? We're going to have to do it, because the crash will come sooner than anyone thinks. Think happy thoughts, Morons. It just means more free-range hobos on the loose.

14 The MFM couldn't talk 'down' the economy.  And yet they still persist in thinking that they can now talk it 'up'.

15 The only way you can really judge an economy is by the earning and profits.  That and how short the skirts are.

16 Got an email from an obamabot uber lib friend of mine advising all of us to stop paying off our student loans at a record clip.  He says to stretch it out to thirty years and pay the minimum.  He says with the inflation coming you will be paying it off with cheaper and cheaper dollars.

I'm curious what you guys think....

17 This situation won't change until spending aligns with income -- and this applies from the sovereign level all the way down to Joe and Jane Taxpayer.
Posted by: Monty at 12:03 PM

I think consumer spending has gone a long way towards lining up with income. Families, not having printing presses in their garages, have cut back spending, and started paying off debt and adding to savings accounts (or so I have read).

As for our governments - at every level - I have no faith at all in their ability to do the right thing. There isn't enough money in the world to pay off all the defined benefit pensions our politicians have used to buy votes, let alone all the other nonsense at which they throw wads of cash.

I think the situation calls for a closing comment from Kratos.

18 I'm curious what you guys think....

Posted by: curious at May 27, 2010 12:13 PM (p302b)

I think it's great you have liberal friends.  I also think you shouldn't listen to a thing they say... even when they're right.

19 We're being treated to a macabre contest. What will be worse; the economic news, or the contortions that the MFM will undertake to hide, minimize or obfuscate the news? After all, they have a Dem party to save in six months.

20 I am strong

21 Oh and the Dow is always a crappy indicator.  It's 30 stocks.  S&P 500 at least has a larger sample size.

22 tiffanys said there has been an increase in luxury buying....my friend says they doubled their WS expectation on earnings today.

23 So I was in Alaska the other day, fucking 26 chickens, and their heads just popped off from my awesome pounding.

Weird, right?

24 Posted by: Editor at May 27, 2010 12:14 PM (pUfK9)

where i live if I didn't have liberal friends I wouldn't be able to find friends...and besides it makes me know I'm being true to myself, they keep trying to convert me and I'm still and independent

25

Another easy fix:

Obama pulls out money from his personal stash.

26 "I'm curious what you guys think...."
Me? I think I'll have a second six-pack for lunch; breakfast wasn't as effective as it should have been.

27

OT: Protesters Heckle Rahm Emanuel in Israel http://bit.ly/bTLCFS

Two ultranationalist Israeli activists have been arrested for shouting insults at White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.

The two men approached Emanuel Thursday as he was touring Jerusalem's Old City with his family under heavy security.

The protesters began shouting insults and slogans from afar, yelling, "Jerusalem is not for sale." They were referring to the White House pressure for Israel to halt construction in disputed east Jerusalem.

28 I like money.

29 Is any of this really going to matter when the Chicoms take over?

30 MSNBC and the idiot touts they invite onto the show- get paid to invest your money.  "Get in now" they say.

Of course they do. The only way they can make money, is if they convince the sheep to come back and drive stock prices up so they can sell. When you think about it, the stock market resembles a Ponzi scheme. The people who get in early, get out late and leave the suckers holding over priced paper. And short it on the way down.

Nothing new here.

31 Can't wait until willie makes it big on the comedy circuit. He has ties in politics you know.

32 I like money. Posted by: Ben Bernanke at May 27, 2010 12:20 PM (9Sbz+) I like money also. Other peoples money.

33 9 #3

So what's your point? That in the end, there will be only chaos?

Indeed, . 

34 Is any of this really going to matter when the Chicoms take over?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 27, 2010 12:23 PM (0GFWk)

If you have enough money for bribes, you can work on the shady side of the rice paddy.

35 OT - Palin neighbor turned down a big-bucks offer from the National Enquirer and called McGinnis with an offer to rent her house LINK

(Politico)

36 Two ultranationalist Israeli activists

I was just wondering, what's an "ultranationalist"?  Is that supposed to be worse than a hypernationalist?  I can't even think of any other nation that has citizens described as "ultranationalists".

37 Things that make you go hmmm....If the Exxon Valdez spill happened during Obama's watch would there be a moratorium on oil tankers in US?

38

I like money.

Nice.

39 An ultranationalist is preety much anyone who wants to keep defensible borders, rather than appeasing the palestinians/syrians/iranians/Obama.

40 You are all racists. Bush ruined everything!

41

Is any of this really going to matter when the Chicoms take over?

that four years of chinese in highschool will pay off. I will be made feudal lord of the State of PA

42 An ultranationalist is preety much anyone who wants to keep defensible borders, rather than appeasing the palestinians/syrians/iranians/Obama.

Posted by: Methos at May 27, 2010 12:29 PM (Xsi7M)

Eskimos have no word for ice and morons have no word for ultranationalist.

43

This is interesting. I originally expected Obamunist policies to cause a replay of the 1970's, with stagflation. But the previous thread's article does note that the expected increase in money supply M3, due to the fractional banking system and its effect on the private sector, is *not* happening.

Moron poll: What do y'all think? 1970's or 1930's? Originally I was quite confident about the former, but now, not so much.

44

Eskimos have no word for ice and morons have no word for ultranationalist.

ha. I was thinking the same thing. what is the difference between an nationalist and ultra nationalist? and more importantly is there a mega nationalism.

 

45 So the Dow is up

It's a "Rule 48" day. (Google it!)

Again. On a day that was primed to open with a huge surge. Rule 48 depresses selling.

It's...Thursday.

46 An ultranationalist is preety much anyone who wants to keep defensible borders, rather than appeasing the palestinians/syrians/iranians/Obama.

Posted by: Methos at May 27, 2010 12:29 PM (Xsi7M)

That's what I thought.  But, I thought they were supposed to be called, "hyper-super-mega-nationalists whose nation has no right to exist".  The "ultra" is a nice touch, though.  Takes me back to my childhood and Ultra-man.

47 Moron poll: What do y'all think? 1970's or 1930's?

I'm think'en 1930's
All paper assets go poof!
Guv'ment starts doing shit to help...matters get worse.
Those with a job scrape by, those without become hobo's.
Large urban area's sealed off to keep people from going anywhere.
Kinda like the Soilent Green & Running Man, gona suck to be in a big city.

48

I can't even think of any other nation that has citizens described as "ultranationalists".


A-HEM.

(and ours aren't the frienly close the borders type, either.  Quite the opposite, in fact ...)

49 O/T:  The more I think of this sestak thing and the more you consider the horse on their past performance, the more I think this sestak thing is a trap.  somehow I think the GOP and all those making a lot of this will be embarrassed...

I know you think I'm nuts....but isn't sestak a dem?

and haven't things like this, where everyone in the GOP got on the bandwagon, turned out to make the GOP look bad and the administration look good and hasn't it been done in the usual snide snarky way?

50
progressoverpeace

I picked up the first two seasons of the original Ultraman at Target a few months ago. 

"Ultra Q" I should say, but it was the one I watched growing up.  Like $10 for two DVDs.  Great deal, great fun.

51

I'm think'en 1930's
All paper assets go poof!

But that's 1970's....heck, in the 1930's, there were paper bonds selling with negative yields.

Guv'ment starts doing shit to help...matters get worse.

That's true either 1970's or 1930's. Short of taxation policy and manipulating money supply (which is what a central bank is supposed to do), there isn't anything a federal government can do. Fiscal policy sucks. Period. (Note to Gold Bugs--even with a gold standard, we had a central bank).

52

Moron poll: What do y'all think? 1970's or 1930's? Originally I was quite confident about the former, but now, not so much.

1930s, I think. I didn't like the M3 report, but I also think M3 is one of those wonkish metrics that don't necessarily correspond to real life. Still ...

If the money supply does dry up, as a result of the government needing it all to pay off its debts, then we're going to be really screwed. 1930s America still had tons of family farms people could move back to. That's not an option now.

I could easily develop a scenario where food scarcity leads to government controls leads to famine. Which leads to riots, massacres, exoduses from major (and minor) cities to the suburbs and countryside, looting/pillaging/raping and the resultant armed defense by folks like us - just a total breakdown of societal order. We'd all be too busy trying to survive to worry about a civil war, although that's what it would eventually turn into.

Yeah, time to buy even more guns and ammo.

53 A-HEM. (and ours aren't the frienly close the borders type, either.  Quite the opposite, in fact ...) Posted by: Russia at May 27, 2010 12:49 PM (UaxA0) Yes. I should have thought to look towards your way. Posted by: s'moron at May 27, 2010 12:51 PM (UaxA0) Ultraman seems to be the "forgotten" kid's series of old. Myself, I don't remember much about it (outside of the warning bulb on the chest) but I remember loving the show. Many, many years ago. Of course, Ultraman was an ultraglobalist ... or something.

54

Right now as I write this the Dow is up almost 200 points.  That little data point of the economy is all most people see, they're too blinded by American Idol and Dancing w/the Stars. 

When the SHTF finally, it's going to take an awful lot of people by surprise.

 

 

55 China said everything is okay so everything is okay. Today at least

56

If the money supply does dry up, as a result of the government needing it all to pay off its debts,

But that's just it--the government can always print more and inflate. Unless the private sector is shucking it off faster than the gov't is printing it, which is what that M3 report seemed to be about.

I could easily develop a scenario where food scarcity leads to government controls leads to famine. Which leads to riots, massacres, exoduses from major (and minor) cities to the suburbs and countryside, looting/pillaging/raping and the resultant armed defense by folks like us - just a total breakdown of societal order. We'd all be too busy trying to survive to worry about a civil war, although that's what it would eventually turn into.

That said, the suburbs and exurbs now outnumber the inner cities (despite Commiecrat efforts to make and import more of an underclass). Detroit? DC? A good many other central cities? Less people there than in 1980.

57 tiffanys said there has been an increase in luxury buying You know what I think is driving that? People are getting out of the markets and investing in hard assets: jewels, gold, and easily barterable goods. Why invest money when you get a big fat zero percent interest rate on it? This is the end-state of Keynesianism -- make you go long on the dollar because you have no other choice. People may be paying off debt, but I doubt that they're actually saving much more.

58 Oh, and here's a lovely thought: when the SHTF, will city dwellers leave in a mass exodus, or in small bands? I'm thinking in bands - 20 or 30 strong - just enough to have a leader and a pack structure.Maybe 50 tops, 20 "warriors" and the rest women and children who perform a variety of functions, from scout/spy to to setting up camps, to concubines. Very much like the 30 Years War in Europe.

I really don't see the cities being hemmed in by the military - we don't have enough to do it, even if they followed orders to form cordons.

Anyone else want to share their apocalyptic vision?

59 Large urban area's sealed off to keep people from going anywhere.

I suspect Democrat core constituencies will be free to do whatever they please, and the rest of us will get stuck with the bill to fix it. 

60

Well, Josef, I have heard dire doom and gloom predictions before, but I think if you are a safe enough distance away from the ghetto neighborhoods and sufficiently armed, you should be fine.

Oh, and here's a lovely thought: when the SHTF, will city dwellers leave in a mass exodus, or in small bands? I'm thinking in bands - 20 or 30 strong - just enough to have a leader and a pack structure.Maybe 50 tops, 20 "warriors" and the rest women and children who perform a variety of functions, from scout/spy to to setting up camps, to concubines. Very much like the 30 Years War in Europe.

You are assuming the atomized city dwellers are that cohesive. Other than at the gangbanger level, they aren't. And the gangbangers couldn't give two whits about the illegit children they father.

61 People are getting out of the markets and investing in hard assets: jewels, gold, and easily barterable goods

In Argentina, people carried a gold chain and a pocket knife. You could easily break off x number of links with the knife and sell them  - lots of places bought and sold gold. Then you took the money and used it to buy stuff. The important thing was, if you wanted to buy, say, a bag of rice, you sold just enough gold to pay for the rice. You didn't want paper money in your pocket, except enough for a bribe for the traffic cops. No one ounce gold coin nonsense - easily convertible gold, 18 or 24k.

62

Survival Blog has lots of information on different sorts of chaotic scenarios, depending upon what happens in what part of the world and how it might spread. 

The thought of armed bands of inner city gang members, or Hell's Angels, is the sort of Mad Max future I do not want to contemplate.

63

I suspect Democrat core constituencies will be free to do whatever they please, and the rest of us will get stuck with the bill to fix it. 

I am assuming the same. I would get the hell out of those areas and not stick around to become the next Reginald Denny or the Knoxville couple, but otherwise you should be okay.

There is a part of me that wants to be armed to the teeth and become the next Bernard Goetz. Of course the Commiecrats would put me on a show trial, but better than than carried by six.

64 lots of places bought and sold gold I could easily see a system developing whereby a Wal-Mart or Target would give you a "gold-backed debit card" kind of account. You'd deposit, say, 1 oz. gold in this account at whatever the going rate was, and Wal-Mart would be obliged to sell goods charged on the card at that rate until the balance was depleted (plus a small premium for store profit). It wouldn't be all that hard to shift to a gold-based (or at least asset-based) economy in the digital age. All you need is a transparent system for determining exchange rates, and (obviously) a rule of law to prevent fraud.

65

here's what I learned at summer re-education camp:

1. the forces of evil attempt to use "facts" (sneer) to sabotage the collective.

2. information is a distraction

3. whatever Our Dear Leader says is true, is true.

66

here's what I learned at summer re-education camp:

I take it that camp consisted of television sets tuned into the MFM 24/7, with maybe teh ghey TV shows thrown in for recess.

67

Our Dear Leader says "Plug the damn hole!"

and behold, the hole is plugged!

is more proof nesscessary of the Dear Leader's heavenly power?

 

68

#67

yes comrade, glad to meet another graduate

69 Glenn Beck, is that you? You post at AOS?

Seriously, Beck's been saying this for a looooong time.

70 City runs out of power, water, food.  After a joyful 5 or 6 days of riots.  While the mass exodus ensues.  Everyone clogs the roads, runs out of gas before the 3rd interchange out of town due to congestion and mobile riots. Exhausted fat city dwellers become long pork for rednecks.
Except for the hawtst.  They shall be bathed and sent to my quarters.

Now ye witness the fruits of all the formative year viewings of Escape from New York, Planet of the Apes, Damnation Alley and Mad Max.

71 What if you can't afford to buy gold?

72 What if you can't afford to buy gold? Buy silver. Much cheaper to buy and hold, but still has many of the same benefits as gold. But don't go nuts: remember, gold and silver are hedges, not investments. I think that people who dump their entire savings into gold are being dreadfully foolish.

73 Yes, the DOW and other market indicators are poor reflections of the economy. But the government wants you to believe they are. And why is that?

Because the Dow can be easily manipulated simply by removing some stocks and replacing them with others. It is also subject to inflation which the government loves.

What people must learn to understand is what the actual "economy" is. A short answer is nothing more than the movement of good, services, and money around the nation.

When you get paid and use that money to buy things that money goes into the system. Ultimately it winds up going back to the company that manufactured the product. They make more products and pay their workers. And so the cycle continues. This the "economy" is the movement of money.

If you or some company "owns" a lot of "stuff" and just holds on to it the money does not flow and the economy goes to shit if enough people do this.

One other thing to think of when the stock market crashes is that all that wealth really didn't go away unless it involved a company that was already on the verge of bankruptcy and it goes under.

If stock X drops $10.00 people who own that stock are not out $10.00 unless they sell.  And someone who sold them the stock at the old higher price has that $10.00 in their account so it didn't disappear.  

There is this great myth out there that the stock market crash of 29 caused the depression. Nothing could be further from the truth.

74

I don't think people will leave the cities. In Africa - a permanent state of collapse, people flood the cities looking for jobs, food, government help. The government takes food from the country to keep the cities going.

Away from the cities is where all of the potbellied hungry people holding out rice bowls live.

75

I don't 'get' gold myself.  If money becomes valueless the shit has hit the fan: what intrinsic value does gold have?

If you're looking to guard against inflation the stock market is the place to be.  As input costs rise companies will try to raise prices, increasing revenues and potentially bottom line as most companies will try to maintain margins i.e. a 10% margin on a $1 item drives $0.10 to the bottom line, if input costs double the company will try to double the price i.e. the $0.90 cost, $1.00 price less $0.10 margin, will double to $1.80, leaving a $0.20 margin on the new $2.00 price.  The $0.20 margin is twice the old $0.10 margin - essentially doubling cash flow which would, all things being equal, double the price of the stock (without accounting for inflation).

All things being equal is the key because they never are.  However, companies are focused on creating and preserving wealth.  They will try to manage in the way outlined above, and will likely fail in some way.  Maybe sales drop after the price doubles.  Maybe they can only raise the price by 50% before volume drops off a cliff.  But their goal will be to offset the inflation completely - via a doubling of the stock price - and well managed companies will have some success in this endeavor.  Gold may be better than cash - when prices double interest rates will go up but not anywhere near 100% - but I think investing in stocks with almost certain ongoing demand (how bad will it have to get before I forgo toilet paper?  pretty bad) is a safer bet.  But in this I'm operating more on a 'gut' level. 

76 76  unhhhh... College of Ag, Cornell?  Yikes.