February 05, 2010

Steyn: Glaciers Aren't Melting. The IPCC's Credibility Is.
— Ace

The IPCC made the "Himalayan glaciers melted by 2030" claim in a footnote in their 2007 report.


Their source? A 2005 World Wildlife Fund (an advocacy organization) report which mentioned the claim.

And their source? A 1999 article in pop-science magazine.

And that guy's source? A scientist who now admits he was merely "idly speculating" and had done absolutely no research whatsoever on the topic whatsoever.

So this went from a 1999 "helper quote" -- look, the guy just said this to give the writer something juicy for a nothing little article -- to accepted IPCC fact in less than ten years, with absolutely no science whatsoever supporting it.

And the IPCC now admits there was never any science behind it, but it was just the sort of thing they thought they should put in:

Dr. Murari Lal, the “scientist” who included the 2035 glacier apocalypse in the IPCC report, told Britain’s Mail on Sunday that he knew it wasn’t based on “peer-reviewed science” but “we thought we should put it in”—for political reasons.

Ah. We thought we should put it in. The alternate step three in the scientific process. Experiment, and/or just "put it in" if you feel like it.

Now, Dr. Pachauri is the railroad engineer (yes, really) heading the IPCC. He at first rejected the trashing of this ridiculous claim (which should have been obvious as crank, based simply on visual inspection and common sense) as "voodoo science." He has since been forced to retract this stupidity.

The scientist, or whatever he is, who first "idly speculated" about the Himalayan apocalypse on the telly with a journalist in 1999 is named Syed Hasnain.

Check this shit out -- and know ye how the science gets "settled."

Dr. Rajendra Pachauri, the self-aggrandizing old bruiser and former railroad engineer who serves as head honcho of the IPCC jet set, dismissed Mr. Raina’s research as “voodoo science.” He’s now been obliged to admit the voodoo was all on his side. But don’t worry. By 2008, Syed Hasnain’s decade-old casual chit-chat over the phone to a London journalist had become “settled science,” so Dr. Pachauri’s company TERI (The Energy & Resources Institute) approached the Carnegie Corporation for a grant to research “challenges to South Asia posed by melting Himalayan glaciers,” and was rewarded with half a million bucks. Which they promptly used to hire Syed Hasnain. In other words, professor Hasnain has landed a cushy gig researching solutions to an entirely non-existent global crisis he accidentally invented over a 15-minute phone call 10 years earlier. As they say in the glacier business, ice work if you can get it.

Well. Isn't that special.

Posted by: Ace at 02:50 PM | Comments (81)
Post contains 458 words, total size 3 kb.

1

o/t but this was interesting development with weigel , o'keefe and LGF

Conservative Media Mogul Plays Defense on Racism Story « The Washington Independent

Posted by: willow at February 05, 2010 02:52 PM (5Bf/7)

2

by David weigel,

Soon, other websites grabbed onto the story and added unsupportable spin. Little Green Footballs, whose editor Charles Johnson has made a splashy departure from the right

Posted by: willow at February 05, 2010 02:53 PM (5Bf/7)

3 oops , linked to the revelation about what he called a “white nationalist conference

Posted by: willow at February 05, 2010 02:54 PM (5Bf/7)

4

God this is beautiful to watch.  Just beautiful. 

It's fun to watch lefties, who have been more or less very patient and almost methodical in getting their agendas foisted on the world, make an all out push too soon and getting their asses handed to them both here in the States and abroad.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at February 05, 2010 02:57 PM (U37Ux)

5 Ace, did you run this by Cahrles before you posted it?

Posted by: Peaches at February 05, 2010 03:00 PM (9Wv2j)

6

The alternate step three in the scientific process. Experiment, and/or just "put it in" if you feel like it.

Just "put it in if you feel like it"?  You'd think that reasoning like this would be protested by NOW.

Posted by: "willow" just to stay with an obvious trend at February 05, 2010 03:00 PM (o0R2E)

7

And their source? A 1999 article in pop-science magazine.

And that guy's source? A scientist who now admits he was merely "idly speculating" and had done absolutely no research whatsoever on the topic whatsoever.


My source? I pulled it from the same thing I use to sit on my bicycle

NONTROVERSY!

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:02 PM (sYxEE)

8 Those glaciers will melt by the time all the fake science in the IPCC report is finally discovered.

(note to Pachauri - don't put this comment in your next report.)

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at February 05, 2010 03:03 PM (2sJK0)

9 Amazing. Bullshit not sourced well enough to make it into the Enquirer becomes settled science worldwide.

Posted by: Pussy Willow at February 05, 2010 03:03 PM (YCVBL)

10 Dammit, just the tip!  I told you, just the tip!!

Posted by: Dr. Murari "just put it in" Lal at February 05, 2010 03:03 PM (9Wv2j)

11 Fark charles johnson and his gheyman BS!


Evening M&M's.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:03 PM (OIdTr)

12 Ah. We thought we should put it in. The alternate step three in the scientific process. Experiment, and/or just "put it in" if you feel like it.

I've had plenty of experiments not go the way as I anticipated them.  You mean I can fix all that with this alternate step three?  Awesome, thanks IPCC!

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 05, 2010 03:04 PM (otlXg)

13 Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years.

Posted by: CanaDave at February 05, 2010 03:04 PM (7KEhN)

14

 If there was any justice in this country all the AGW fanatics would be ion jail and we would be out of the U.N.

Posted by: Vic at February 05, 2010 03:06 PM (QrA9E)

15 9 Amazing. Bullshit not sourced well enough to make it into the Enquirer becomes settled science worldwide.

Which doesn't bode well for the scientific method or science in general.  I hate these scam artists.

What really sucks is even after all the ClimateGate revelations and all this other assorted crap, I'm still going to hear distinguished scientists tell me that I should be concerned about "climate change".  Fuck them.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 05, 2010 03:06 PM (otlXg)

16 Fuck you, Ace, the science is settled!

SETTLED, I scream!  SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
What part of SETTLED! don't you understand?

SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED!
SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED!
SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED!
SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED!
SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED! SETTLED!


SETTLED! I say, SETTLED!

Still not convinced by my overwhelming scientific science evidence?

Well, tough shit, the science is SETTLED!

SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!

You know nothing anti-science cretins, don't you know the science is Fuck you, Ace, the science is SETTLED!

SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!

What? The glaciers are melting?

Oh, sorry about that. Guess we blew it a little there.

Posted by: DelD at February 05, 2010 03:06 PM (eWtdM)

17 Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years.

Besides the "childhood vaccines cause autism" thing? 

Posted by: Peaches at February 05, 2010 03:06 PM (9Wv2j)

18

"Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years."~CanaDave

Fact:  Too much sex makes you go blind.

Posted by: Ray Charles at February 05, 2010 03:07 PM (o0R2E)

19 This is a NONTROVERSY so the subject is closed and will not be discussed by ANYONE here!

There's more important things to go over like my six degrees of separation from someone who said they knew someone overhear James O'Keefe telling a black joke. I'll be investigating this like andi sullivan analyzing placenta

By the way, how do you like my pic of the top of a palm tree? Next I'll have a pic of the roof of an obscure lifeguard station.





Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:07 PM (sYxEE)

20 Um, guess that wasn't quite as effective without the "Manbearpig" sockpuppet.

Posted by: DelD at February 05, 2010 03:08 PM (eWtdM)

21 Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years. Posted by: CanaDave

Second hand smoke, Alar scare, heterosexual AIDS, silicone breast implants, ... oh, you were being rhetorical.

Posted by: Iskandar at February 05, 2010 03:08 PM (/o58C)

22 Fact:  Too much sex makes you go blind.

No shit!  Totally worth it, though.

Posted by: Governor Patterson at February 05, 2010 03:08 PM (9Wv2j)

23 Well, but, but vaccines cause autism, you knuckledraggers. I read it in a journal!

Posted by: Will O' the Wisp at February 05, 2010 03:08 PM (YCVBL)

24 19,

Ummmm, may I do it until I need glasses Ray?

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:08 PM (OIdTr)

25 Kevin Martin who spoke at the "conference" O'Keefe was at, says O'Keefe isn't racist. Martin is black by the way.

Posted by: Weeping Willow at February 05, 2010 03:10 PM (0FiCa)

26 Science took 300 years to displace Religion; now Science is being displaced by the New Religion:  Political Ideology, to wit, rabid anti-capitalism and moonbat leftism

It's not Science vs Priests & the Pope any more:   It's Science vs Ideologues & Obama / ManBearPig

I love Progress........

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at February 05, 2010 03:11 PM (JrRME)

27 Well, tough shit, the science is SETTLED!

SETTLED!
SETTLED!
SETTLED!

I prefer etc, etc, etc... but your argument is a slam dunk to shut up those denialist teabaggers who read Steyn articles.

Oh, did you know that Steyn and Stacy McCain once appeared on the same web page? That alone tells you that all denialists are racists. Because I say so

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:11 PM (sYxEE)

28 I'm amazed Steyn doesn't have his own radio show yet. He's certainly the preferred guest host for Rush.

Posted by: ErikW at February 05, 2010 03:11 PM (S1wbJ)

29 14 Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years.

I got one - excessive masturbation would lead to blindness.

/I seem fine, or maybe I haven't breached that line between enormous masturbation and excessive masturbation?

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at February 05, 2010 03:12 PM (otlXg)

30 I like Mark but his laff bugs me all the time in between comments, just me I guess.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:13 PM (OIdTr)

31 "29 I'm amazed Steyn doesn't have his own radio show yet. " Me, too. He's great.

Posted by: Will O'Henry at February 05, 2010 03:14 PM (YCVBL)

32 The glaciers aren't melting? My Klondike bars are melting, that's proof enough to me that the science is settled. AGW melted my ice cream, not Killgore chewing on the plug of the refrigerator.


Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:14 PM (sYxEE)

33

Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years.

Word to your moms.

Now stop waking me up, dammit!

Posted by: Punxatawney Phil at February 05, 2010 03:15 PM (S1wbJ)

34

The priests of the new religion will be lawyers, the cardinals will be judges, the "pope" will be, I dunno help me out here, the Editor of the Harvard Law Review?

 

Geeze, I hope not.

Posted by: Speller at February 05, 2010 03:16 PM (o0R2E)

35 Metal masturbation only causes blindness if the filings get in your eyes.

Posted by: Will Robinson at February 05, 2010 03:16 PM (YCVBL)

36 Here is a link to the article willow mentioned.
Charles "Global Warming" Johnson is a smearing hack who sees racists and deniers everywhere. He's probably afraid to open a door or drawer for fear a homophobic racist denier will pop out.

Posted by: Beto at February 05, 2010 03:16 PM (+CLh/)

37 Mmmmmm, grilled Punxatawney, slathered with onions.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:17 PM (OIdTr)

38 I'm frying up Unicorn steaks tonight. The last two.

Posted by: Beto at February 05, 2010 03:19 PM (+CLh/)

39 This Pachauri assclown is fast becoming a major PR liability to the UN.   I'd like to enter him into the dead pool. 

Posted by: Purple Avenger at February 05, 2010 03:20 PM (m7nNJ)

40 the libs so want it to be true. they don't care what the truth really is, they just want their stupid feelings validated. the clue bat has addled them but they are having so much trouble letting go of their heart felt belief in a ridiculous hoax.

Posted by: nyc redneck at February 05, 2010 03:21 PM (EtrGh)

41 9 Amazing. Bullshit not sourced well enough to make it into the Enquirer becomes settled science worldwide.

The UFO pig boy being held in a secret location by the CIA is TRUE. I studied up on it and informed myself.  Once all this comes out with the new transparency policies of Obama, Charlie Sheen will be appointed as the first galactic ambassador.

You've got to read things and educate yourself. I did

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:21 PM (sYxEE)

42 43 Beto,

Be sure to remove the skittles from their ass, the heat might produce rainbows.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:21 PM (OIdTr)

43 I realize it's the UN, and all, but if we are footing most of the bill, WTF are we letting them drive for?

Posted by: Rodent Freikorps at February 05, 2010 03:21 PM (dQdrY)

44

Certainly hope all this metal masturbation does cause blindness.~sTevo

I'm such a good lover because I practice a lot on my own. ~Woody Allen

Watermelons support the AGW crisis because they have Red/Green Blindness.
 

Posted by: Speller at February 05, 2010 03:23 PM (o0R2E)

45 Metal masturbation only causes blindness if the filings get in your eyes.

Posted by: Will Robinson at February 05, 2010 07:16 PM (YCVBL)

I quit using steel wool. It wore out too fast.

Posted by: Rodent Freikorps at February 05, 2010 03:23 PM (dQdrY)

46 I remember picking up a pop-science magazine in my youth where "Joe" is at a fair with his girl when the bully (who has just shown his strength with the "Ring-the-bell" game) insults and pushes him.

That's where I picked up my Sea Monkeys before they put it on Kindle. I'm getting my X-Ray Specs there so I can see the Wingnut Denialists through the walls coming to kill me.

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at February 05, 2010 03:25 PM (sYxEE)

47 Speaking of UFO BS you guys should tune into coast to coast am at night if you are like me and stay up all night , hilarious to listen to those farking moonbats! Pure laffing entertainment all night long!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:25 PM (OIdTr)

48 #32 Nam Grunt, he does crack himself up a lot. he goes head over heels into his subject matter. but he brings enough to the party that i try to overlook it. i wonder if he's nervous.

Posted by: nyc redneck at February 05, 2010 03:26 PM (EtrGh)

49 54,

Hey! HEY! I'm a coonass now and I will eat anything that moves on this earth!!!!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at February 05, 2010 03:29 PM (OIdTr)

50 CJ didn't go crazy. He just took the 30 pieces of silver, and has nowhere else to go. Going crazy now might be poetic justice. God works in mysterious ways.

Posted by: Rodent Freikorps at February 05, 2010 03:29 PM (dQdrY)

51 You can't go wrong linking Steyn.

Posted by: Amused Observer at February 05, 2010 03:32 PM (EioPx)

52 Hey! HEY! I'm a coonass now and I will eat anything that moves on this earth!!!!

How YOU doin', handsome?

Posted by: Helen Thomas at February 05, 2010 03:33 PM (9Wv2j)

53 Famine in the soviet union ? There's no famine here .

Posted by: Walter Duranty at February 05, 2010 03:35 PM (wb68R)

54 Note in the comments (not here, for the link) there is a poster who goes straight for the Hitler comparison.

Posted by: rawmuse at February 05, 2010 03:35 PM (M6Lsd)

55 56 CJ didn't go crazy. He just took the 30 pieces of silver, and has nowhere else to go.

No, he's gone nuts and is heading for full blown dementia. Even the LA Times and NY Times profiles pointed out that he's anally paranoid

Posted by: kbdabear at February 05, 2010 03:37 PM (sYxEE)

56 Even the LA Times and NY Times profiles pointed out that he's anally paranoid

Jeez, who isn't?  clenches

Posted by: Peaches at February 05, 2010 03:41 PM (9Wv2j)

57

Good piece at WSJ by Eric Felten "New Episodes of Scientists Behaving Badly".  (Sorry I'm too lazy to link it!)  Anyways it gives a quick run down of the current shams perpetrated in the name of science.  One case I'd never heard of:Makes you wonder what other BS claims have been foisted on us as 'fact' over the last 50 years.

Well, since you were wondering...I posted this on an earlier thread, but it's another example of the lies we've had foisted on us:

"Or how about the case of Cello Energy of Alabama?  Investors had poured millions into the company, which claimed it had devised a high-tech process for turning wood pulp and grasses into biodiesel.  The Environmental Protection Agency had been counting on the firm to produce more than half of the 'cellulosic biofuel' in the country this year.  Belatedly, the moneymen decided to do some due diligence and took a sample of Cello's biodiesel to an independent lab--and found that it was just old fashioned fossil fuel dressed up in a new green bottle.  In June a federal jury in Alabama found that investors had been defrauded and ordered Cello to pay $10.4 million in punitive damages.  What are the odds that, with the government belching billions into green technology research, we see repeats of the Cello fiasco?"

Uh, yeah!  And what's up with the EPA "counting on" a firm to produce more than half a product they are supposed to regulate?  I hope that people in the EPA got burned cause they invested in this company in kind of an insider trading sort of way (at least that's what it sounds like to ignorant little old me).  Of course I didn't go to an Ivy League school nor do my pants have sharp creases.  Maybe someone in the "smart set" can 'splain it to me.

Posted by: runningrn at February 05, 2010 03:41 PM (CfmlF)

58 TREES will not uproot themselves and embark on blood-soaked killing sprees by 2035, global warming experts have admitted.

The IPCC headquarters in Geneva The International Panel on Climate Change confirmed the evidence had not been peer-reviewed and will now amend the section of its 2007 report devoted to 'killer trees'.

A spokesman said: "It appears the claim was not based on new data or field research but on that bit with the angry, talking trees in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.

Posted by: someguy at February 05, 2010 03:50 PM (VRJIW)

59

Somewhat OT: you'll notice that there's an online poll on the right-hand side of the Steyn column at Maclean's about "who would you like to have light the Winter Olympic flame?"

Would morons here mind voting for "a member of the Canadian Forces" and not just to freep for our troops being honoured but to stop leftie, AGW enviro-turd, David Suzuki, who's probably got his followers freeping the poll himself, from winning? Thanks for your time.

And P.S., Ace, the IPCC said 2035; it was NASA that decided that wasn't catastrophic enough and changed the date in their reports to 2030.

Posted by: andycanuck at February 05, 2010 03:59 PM (2qU2d)

60 The ice in my martini melted.  It's global warming I tell you!  The science is settled.

Posted by: Reiver at February 05, 2010 04:31 PM (vTmeT)

61 60: Hitler is global warming?  Or global warming is Hitler?

Posted by: unknown jane at February 05, 2010 04:46 PM (5/yRG)

62

I saw Soylent Green, which came from Harry Harrison's book Make Room!, written in 1954.

Was that the first ever reference to global warming?  Was it made by accident, like the Himilaya thing?

Posted by: Cincinnatus at February 05, 2010 04:55 PM (euuyg)

63 The charlatans behind global warming science are the same "conservangelists" behind fisheries science in the US- Pew, Packard, Allen, Moore foundations, all into the fishing "environmental" groups for millions of dollars per year, as they also are with "global warming" science. US retail fish stocks are in the best shape in 20 years 78% not overfished, 82% no overfishing occurring- but the head NOAA lead, Jane Lubchenco has been in the tank for Pew and Packard via EDF for the last 20 years making $$$$millions$$$$ proclaiming the oceans are emptying. Ask any Californian how marine protected areas came to be without any science--but with "theoretical" science instead--in other words they made it up and the folks in California were so loopy they assumed an eneviro sits to thte right hand of god, not understanding that yes Virginia, even enviros LIE.

In 2003, US News and World Report proclaimed 90% of the sea was fished out and all that would be left was jellyfish based on a "science" report funded by Pew by a Boris Worm. You remember the headlines, all the fish gone by 2048--surprise surprise, another "headline" moment detailed for the media.

What the writer didn't tell you, Tom Hayden, was six months before the article, he was in Bonaire on Pew's dime teaching a workshop at the Annual Pew Marine Fellows meeting on how to present your story to the media, with mock presentations and mock interviews. So was Cory Dean of the NYT, Natasha Loder of the Economist, NPR and a former Time correspondent all helping the advocacy based gang to refine their message.

Then 6 months later and the story breaks, and lo and behold, of the 14 people interviewed, an apparent cross section of concerned earthlings, 13 out of 14 received their funding $ directly or indirectly through Pew and it's enviro spin offs like Sea Web, Ocean Conservancy etc. No mention, I know shocking, of the fact that he was there snorking and sailing with them for five days in Bonaire...zippo. In fact, for two years prior he was doing the same job for Lubchenco's Pew funded Aldo Leopold Foundation.

We in the fishing industry in the US have been trying desperately to get this story out but the media colludes with the enviros and the enviros fund and create "sciecne" that the journalist don't take the time to search to see if it's real science or peer reviewed or reviewed by who...which is how they operate too, they write a paper, they all like hyenas comment and agree and footnote each other, giving it the illusion of acceptance.

If anyone reading this has any sway with any news organization that would like to dig deeper to the other hand of the "global warming" scandal, the "US fisheries science" scandal, please comment below as to how I can get in touch with you. I have been trying for the last year to get anyone, Fox, National Review, anyone, to listen. MSM wants no part in it because many are colluders. I have the proof.

US fisheries are now being forced into a "catch share" scenario propagated by the Obama administration because he's paying off Pew and Packard for being elected with Lubchenco- with the ultimate goal of capacity reduction aka loss of jobs and communities not because of a lack of fish, but a lack of honesty. And the US public, most of whom don't know the fishing communities, are none the wiser. Meanwhile fishing communities are being exterminated through false science and lots of $$ in media spin.

For more information, go to www.gloucestertimes.com and read the stories under the fishing industry.

Please help us if you can
Thank you in advance

Posted by: b at February 05, 2010 04:57 PM (jSbKY)

64

community work comes up pretty quick vs. the near unproveable OBVIOUS Fraud.

A 10yr. posting to antarctica, gobi desert, himalayan tops for data gathering or interior volcano sensing. Or launch the pricks into orbit and play star wars!

Posted by: ron dorque at February 05, 2010 04:58 PM (rsFMu)

65

"Traveller" magazine's last issue had a huge story about the "melting" Himalaya glaciers and WHY AREN'T WE DOING SOMETHING????

Why can't I mock them to their faces, is what I want to know...

Posted by: ushie at February 05, 2010 06:02 PM (1kwr2)

66 http://bit.ly/d2ibaQ Actually according to the Yale Forum on Climate and the Media, even these recent public articles are wrong. There is yet ANOTHER paper besides the WWF one which was quoted and source of the table on glacier retreat, the article is linked above and well worth the read. Yale's report takes almost everyone to task for failure to investigate deeply enough and go to the source documents.

Posted by: onlyme at February 05, 2010 06:14 PM (7g4LE)

67 I really,really, really like replica designer handbags, but how do I know that your handbags are actually replicas and not the originals?

Posted by: rian at February 05, 2010 07:28 PM (wCl2n)

68

To misquote Johnny Cochran:

"If the data don't fit, we make up shit!"

Posted by: Mike at February 06, 2010 04:18 AM (AXY1j)

69 you gotta admit that the muslims led by the Saudis have always been out in front in denial Israel has been signing climate change treaties for years

Posted by: Noah at February 06, 2010 05:51 AM (mhD2v)

70 test

Posted by: andycanuck at February 09, 2010 07:38 PM (2qU2d)

71

The professor went on to say: “The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 

q       From bondage to spiritual faith;

q       From spiritual faith to great courage;

q       From courage to liberty;

q       From liberty to abundance;

q       From abundance to complacency;

q       From complacency to apathy;

q       From apathy to dependence;

q       From dependency back into bondage.”

 

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