1 Okay let me say this up front... in addition to not being a lawyer, I'm not a parliamentarian and have never worked on the Hill. That said... Want to go steady, big boy?

2 Pretty ballsy on Stupak's part.  We'll see if he eventually caves.

3

Why won't they release the document the senate sent them?

4 Could someone move this bus off of me? It's starting to hurt a bit....

5 I'm thinking about a movie script where all these legislators are sucker-punched in the bathroom and given an explosive suppository before they go in to vote, and as soon as one votes 'No' Nancy pushes a little button and - poof!

6

just got this from a friend @another blog

=========================

during the primaries, i ‘volunteered’ for bo, getting phone numbers and pretending i was calling. so, they have me on their list.

i just received an email from them, asking me to call my representative. well, i did, but i donÂ’t think i gave the script they wanted me to follow.

the point is, they are using their stored files of internet users to push this thing through. this has convinced me that they absolutely do not have the votes.

and so, i am going to paste a copy of a list i got from another site of Â’swingÂ’ representatives. some of them have already declared. i would hope everyone calls at least some of them. and if you happen to be in one of their districts, even better.

here it isÂ….
PLEASE CALL! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (92 226-6914
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 (925) 833-0643
John Salazar (202) 225-4761 (970) 245-7107
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 (630) 406-1114
Baron Hill (202) 225-5315 (812) 288-3999
Mark Schauer (202) 225-6276 (517) 780-9075
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (24 273-4227
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 (702) 256-3462
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150
Mike Arcuri (202) 225-3665 (315) 793-8146
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657
Earl Pomneroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196
Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954
John Boccieri (202) 225-3876 (330) 489-4414
Jason Altmire (202) 225-2565 (724) 378-0928
Rick Boucher (202) 225-3861 (276) 628-1145
Suzane Kosmas (202) 226-6299 (407) 208-1108
Betsey Markey (202) 225-4676 (970) 221-7110
Scott Murphy (202) 225-5614 (51 828-3109
Glenn Nye (202) 225-4215 (757) 326-6201
Allen Boyd (202) 225-5235 (850) 561-3979
John Tanner (202) 225-4714 (731) 885-7070
Bart Gordon (202) 225-4231 (615) 896-1986
John Adler (202) 225-4765 (732) 608-7235
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536 (360) 695-6292
Frank Kratovil (202) 225-5311 (410) 420-8822
Dennis Kucinich (202)225-5871 (216) 228-8850
Ed Markey (202) 225-2836 (781) 396-2900
Michael McMahon (202) 225-3371 (71 351-1062
Chris Murphy (202) 225-4476 (860) 223-8412
Gerry Connolly (202) 225-1492 (703) 256-3071
Brad Ellsworth (202) 225-4636 (812) 465-6484
Marion Berry (202) 225-4076 (870) 972-4600
Henry Cuellar (202) 225-1640 (956) 725-0639
Jim Barrow (202) 225-2823 (706)722-4494
Lincoln Davis (202) 225-6831 (931) 490-8699
Joe Donnelly (202) 225-3915 (574) 288-2780
Mike Doyle (202) 225-2135 (412) 261-5091
Luis Gutierrez (202) 225-8203 (773) 342-0774
Marcy Kaptur (202) 225-4146 (419) 259-7500
Daniel Lipinski (202) 225-5701 (312) 886-0481
Jim Matheson (202) 225-3011 (801) 486-1236
Bart Stupak (202) 225-4735 (989) 356-0690
Harry Teague (202) 225-2365 (575) 393-0510

=================

soooo, if you are one of those calling, have at it

7 So do I understand this correctly that the Senate will vote on the Basic Bill and the Corrections Bill as two separate items?

8 well Nancy's not blinking!

9 "It seems Stupak is really looking for a way to vote for the bill and save face on abortion."

It's not "ballsy" on Stupak's part.

He, like a lot* of people of faith, is more concerned with looking like he's following the moral rules of his religion than actually following them, and thus protecting innocent children from being slaughtered.

In other words, he's craven.

I refuse to accept that Stupak worming around finding a way to support this bill, which will likely ultimately pass with pro-abortion language, in such a way he can say to his religious voters, "Look, I tried. Don't blame me," is "ballsy".

* FWIW, not all people of faith are like that. Further, people without faith can have similar moral cowardice flaws, but not that exact one because obviously following their religions' rules is N/A.

10 Nancy McBotox that is.

11

"These "enrollment corrections bills" are normally used to correct technical mistakes, typos or some other error that needs to be fixed before the two bills can be said to be identical and presented as one to the President."

I'm no expert on congressional procedure, either.  But it seems to me that Stupak hasn't come this far to throw away his vote on a "promise" of a Senate vote that will be sure to go the other way.  The way this language reads to me is that the correction MUST be agreed to by both chambers or the bill cannot be presented to the President.  If it's agreed in the House but not the Senate, then it's not "the same bill."  What it seems Stupak may be trying to do is force a vote on a "technical correction" to the language in the House that would have to be agreed to in the Senate (presumably by 51 votes, but that's Harry's problem) before the bill could be presented to The Exalted One.

12 These people are so ethical I can't stand it.

13 8 - Nancy can't blink....it's the Botox...

14 Oh, well, Stupak can just go to confession and he will get a pass. Asshole, he better do the right thing - and by that I mean he says he is a straight up Catholic or is he just another cafeteria Catholic - which is okay but just say it. He needs to come clean - don't fucking pay lip service to being a Catholic and then vote whatever he thinks will just get him by. If he is relying on Pelosi as an example - he is smoking something. I don't really give a flying fk what he feels towards the church but he needs to stand up for what he believes is right - I hate this crap. Feels like the general all over again. Drink!

15 This is a psy-ops campaign. Wear down the opposition and keep pushing the sense of inevitability. The media has been complicit. Instead of reporting that this is a battle between Democrats. They report that Obama is winning over the opposition even when it is still to close to call. I believe they have decided all in on this issue and keep ramming through bills until November.

16 "Obama Administration Restores Full Funding to Corrupt ACORN Org."

"In a March 16 memo Office of Management and Budget (OMB) director Peter Orszag quietly ordered federal agencies to resume funding the group whose employees were caught on hidden camera videos last year condoning a variety of crimes including child prostitution and tax evasion."

Didn't the house and senate members vote on this.  Can Orzag just ignore them?

17 = 8 ) without the space, right?

18

This is BS, we're talking about a self proclaimed pro life democrat here. That carries about as much weight as a self proclaimed celebate crack whore.

He's only pro life until he isn't.

19 This Obama/Pelosi/Reed axis of evil is gonna end up making Nixon look not so bad

20 They approve the correction in the House, take it to the Senate, where the Dems make the Rs block cloture, so the House sez Fuckit and passes the non-Stupak Senate version for President Satan to sign, blaming the Rs for killing babies.  Unlikely?

21 According to lawyer Mr Dagny who is furiously researching, deeming anything is going to be a separation of powers problem for the supremes. When the used demonpass before it was on stuff that needed to be attached to a bill which had already passed both houses. This has not.  The stuff was also non-controversial--typos and such and in one case it was actually a typo.

22

You know what woudl be quaint?  An up-or-down vote. 

Robert's rules of order are being raped here.

23 #20 - sounds about right and it's all Bush's fault, of course.

24 Harry Reid is desperately trying convince the House Dems he will follow through and do his part.

Reminds me of the parable of the "The Scorpion and the Frog".  Harry will bone them in the ass with a rusty crowbar.  He's toast, he knows he toast, so he's got nothing to lose anything by boning them or the whole nation. 

25 I deem my presidecy a B+

26 Posted by: jdp at March 19, 2010 09:29 PM (XaqKD)

Normally yes but this one won't correct a difference in two bills, it will try to add something to a bill after it's been passed. The corrections bill doesn't become part of the underlying bill. So the Senate and the House will have passed (or deemed passed) the same bill. The Senate can simply decline to add the House's 'corrections'.

27

Stupak = DemocRAT = Piece of Shit.

That's shit with a capital S.

28

You know what woudl be quaint?  An up-or-down vote. 

Robert's rules of order are being raped here.

The chicken must be on break .... getting ready for Sunday.

29 I deem Heaven's Gate a blockbuster

30 O/T -- Did all the Morons remember to name the next to jump the mortal coil in Celebrity Dead Pool?  There are still a few good ones left.

31 I deem my pooter fresh as a daisy and ready for love.

32 I see absolutely no reason why any House member should trust Reid to keep up his end of the bargain.

I

33 Just the tip baby, I promise.

34

We need some ABBA.  I vote for Winner Takes It All

35 I deem Penn State the '94 NCAA Champions

36 My fellow Americans, it is time.

TO UNLEASH HELL!

37 While we're fighting for the Constitution, people and economy here, I'd feel more comfortable relying on Bart Simpson than Bart Stupak.

If Stupak wants to weasel, he can always tell his priest "hey, I didn't personally tell anyone to get an abortion...."

Some dude in the Washington Examiner wrote that passing this steaming pile of shit puts Osama Obama and Nanzi Pelosi at risk for impeachment.  I wish the big dogs like Limbaugh, Levin, Beck, Palin and even that whiny little rat Hannity would step up to the freekin' plate and say the same.

The only alternative is a horde of people descending on the Capitol and White house bearing sworn-out arrest warrants. Traitors can be arrested, you know.

Stop them before they kill (America) again!

38 What will happen if they do not have the votes by Sunday?  who's face will be slapped, Palosi's or Obama's

39 "The Demcare bribe list, Pt. III"
I guess she switched from "obamacare to demcare".

40 I deem Nancy Pelosi, Janet Napolitano and Hilary Clinton to be hot

41 I can't believe Anna Nicole Smith's estate won't get any of the oil fortune of her dead husband.   It's all George Bush's fault of course.

42

Posted by: Christoph at March 19, 2010 09:29 PM (0fq7b)

Good Lord, you're boorish.

43 Okay, I'm getting fucking drunk.     When I wake up tomorrow afternoon around 3-4 I want DC to have been hit by an asteroid about the size of Cleveland, Ohio, and as dense as Dennis Kucinich ... with nothing but a smoldering pit remaining. Then Texas can be the new center of government in the country.     Okay? ... Okay.

44

 That carries about as much weight as a self proclaimed celebate crack whore.

Celebate?

Did you go to Harvard two?

45

I'm glad I renewed all my prescriptions last week - got 3 months supply.  Thank goodness I don't need these things to actually keep me alive just for mild asthma, but if this thing passes on Sunday I wonder how much of a cluster it will cause at my doctor's office, pharmacy, etc.

 

 

46 Mathematics say the insurance companies are supporting this.

47 Original bill: Federal Funds will be spent on abortion.

Now: Federal Funds will won't be spent on abortion.  FIFY

WTF?  Nancy just inserts a FIFY after whatever she needs to and all is well. 

48 This bitch on Hannity should stop huffing spray paint.  And for God's sake do something about that mole.

49 43

Posted by: Christoph at March 19, 2010 09:29 PM (0fq7b)

Good Lord, you're boorish.

Posted by: ErikW at March 19, 2010 09:42 PM (N6UQT)

Thank.

You.

50

I'm glad I renewed all my prescriptions last week - got 3 months supply.  Thank goodness I don't need these things to actually keep me alive just for mild asthma, but if this thing passes on Sunday I wonder how much of a cluster it will cause at my doctor's office, pharmacy, etc.

If the shit hits the fan, try knocking off the dairy products. There's a related allergy risk to asthma that's being studied.

 

51

I just watched Hot Fuzz on dvd.  Somehow there aren't many movies where the older generation completely screws over the younger.

/not off topic at all

52 I am tellin' y'all, this thing is over and the good guys are gonna win. We're just waiting for the presser.

53

You can't spell "Stupak" without "Stupid".

 

54 This is not an act of desperation. NOT.

55 Mathematics say the insurance companies are supporting this.

Of course.  They get mandated coverage, new customers, and government subsidies.  Crony Communism, aka Mussolini-style fascism.

56

Posted by: Christoph at March 19, 2010 09:29 PM (0fq7b)

Good Lord, you're boorish.

Posted by: ErikW at March 19, 2010 09:42 PM (N6UQT)

Thank.

You.

Posted by: AmishDude

+1000

57 49 This bitch on Hannity should stop huffing spray paint.  And for God's sake do something about that mole.

Posted by: mpfs

She just called the 'black' Rev. a racist. Wait, he's conservative so he's not 'black' according to the liberal/left that holds the crayon box. Oh, and SHE was offended. LMFAO!

58 IT'S A POO TRAP!

59 Moosealeanie is my favorite type of Pasta!

60 Gulp...

61 I believe that they will pass something by hook or by crook. If that means they have to just declare it a law, they will. They must have some plan to quash public dissent.

62 Stupak is playing this game because he knows that he can get what he wants.  The Dems would rather cut off their right arm with a rusty hack saw than settle for a bill that didn't fund abortions.
But if came right down to it, that's exactly what they would do to get Obamacare passed.
And Stupak knows it.  I don't believe for a second that the pro-abortionists will sacrifice Obamacare over something that will get changed down the line.  Just like all those leftists that swore that they would never vote for bill that didn't include the public option or single payer, they know it will come later.
I'm betting that Stupac gets what he wants and he votes "Yes".

63

I need too go and celebate my Helthcare Bill.

Go Oranj!

64

When Botox is outlawed on Pelosi will have Botox.

65 This whole process is sick and corrupted.
Talk about a Parliament of Fools.

66 Nazi Pelosi must be on drugs.  She's a little long in the tooth to be chuggin along 24/7 like this. Anyone care to speculate what she likes?  I say Adderal.

67 I deem the Northwest Passage navigated.

68 Drew - You could be right.  But I'd wonder why Stupak would come this far and then throw away his vote for a meaningless promise.  He could have had that in October.  More substantively, I'm still wondering how one house can make a "technical" change to a bill (changing "a" to "the" for instance) without the other chamber agreeing that the change is what they voted for and still have the bills voted by both houses be "identical." 

69 Oh well, time to go dig up some corpses with dentures...

70

I want this to go down just to see the intra-Democrat catfights.

71 We deem "deem" jokes dead of overkill.

72 O/T -- Did all the Morons remember to name the next to jump the mortal coil in Celebrity Dead Pool?  There are still a few good ones left.

Posted by: RushBabe

did i miss something? put me down for kristie alley, lemmy from motorhead and cnbc's jim cramer.

73

51 ErickW - thanks - I'll look into that because who the hell knows if I will be "deemed" worthy to receive my medications ... I'm sure that since I visit this site often I'm on a list somewhere! 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I commented earlier about how people I speak to really don't understand how this will impact them.  For example a neigbhors adult daughter came home from California after 10 years with her illegitimate son.  Living in parents home and naturally she applies for "whatever benefits she's entitled to."    WIC, food stamps, MassHealth, and who knows what else meanwhile she's living with her parents, babysitting and getting paid under the table.  We live in a very comfortable suburban town.

2 years later she's pregnant again, living with father of this unborn child.  They were going to get married but it would cost too much.  Guess what - they're going to wait until we get "universal healthcare" to get married.  They're totally in love but not so much to give this child a "legitmate" birth if it costs more than they want to pay for health insurance.  So taxpayers are paying her way. 

She comes to my house to use my fax machine to fax copy of her MassHealth insurance card because "they're" going to give me an infant car seat and breast pump.

WTF????  But they all think it's great and can't understand why I'd be opposed to this bill ... after all free carseats and breastpumps for all!!!

74 41 I deem Nancy Pelosi, Janet Napolitano and Hilary Clinton to be hot Posted by: logprof at March 19, 2010 09:41 PM (Mmw0q) Deem? Never heard of it.

75 We deem "deem" jokes dead of overkill.

Posted by: The Deem Police at March 19, 2010 09:55 PM (oxUkz)

I deem you a killjoy

76 What do you think of Deemocrats?  I think that's still not overkilled.

77 FWIW, Stupak is actually following his Catholic faith fairly well in this. The US House of Bishops supported the bill until the funding for abortion became clear. If removed, it aligns with the bishops again.

78 Americans will win. The fun part is when we get to see the score.

79 Okay, just got back from dinner. Can someone explain this thing to me?

80 So is there a kabuki theater you tube video?

on the other hand this reminds me of some shakesphere play, but can't remember which one, you know where all the good people die and evil wins due to some kind of subterfuge.

81 #62   Why do you think that Homeland Defense has bought all those Remington 870's with all the Accessories, including scopes for?..To chase illegal alians with? They can't trust the military.. Only their people on the Obama payroll will do.

82

And "Deem" spelled backwards is "Mead"

* Drink!

83

We'll stop deeming as soon as others lay off the lame Dennehy and Gibson cracks.

So, never.

84 The House would likely have to pass the Senate bill, and then hold it back from going to the president for his signature while they voted on the concurrent resolution. That resolution would then have to go through the Senate.

This is a hell of a song and dance for something that will essentially mean nothing in the end?

85

And "Deem" spelled backwards is "Mead"

* Drink!

I think if that makes sense, you already have.

86 I deem, you deem, we all deem for ice cream.

87 Posted by: evil midnight bomber what bombs at midnight at March 19, 2010 09:58 PM (hCQG5)

That would be true if it were likely that would be what finally happens. No one thinks it will be. Willful self delusion is no protection from God's wrath.

88 84 We'll stop deeming as soon as others lay off the lame Dennehy and Gibson cracks. So, never. Posted by: logprof at March 19, 2010 09:58 PM (Mmw0q) Dennehy?

89

And "Deem" spelled backwards is "Mead"

* Drink!

Posted by: TexasJew at March 19, 2010 09:58 PM (KXW8j)

--I'll drink to that!

90 Deemonic Sheep, anyone?

91 Okay, just got back from dinner. Can someone explain this thing to me?

It means were fucked.  Have a drink.

92 To chase illegal alians with?

They come from the planet Alda.

93

91 Deemonic Sheep, anyone?

Hell no.  I'm friends with the chicken.

94 The Internet Deme is dead

95 did i miss something? put me down for kristie alley, lemmy from motorhead and cnbc's jim cramer.

Posted by: evil libertarian at March 19, 2010 09:56 PM (BGJM2)

That's one heckuva group of celebrities on your list.  Put me down for Wilford Brimley, Jan Michael-Vincent, and Roger Ebert.

96 "FWIW, Stupak is actually following his Catholic faith fairly well in this. The US House of Bishops supported the bill until the funding for abortion became clear. If removed, it aligns with the bishops again."

Okay, fair enough. Far be it for me to defend the Catholic faith on anything.

97 Soylent Deem is people!!

98 90 And "Deem" spelled backwards is "Mead" Yeah, and significantly enough, twat spelled backwards is pronounced taut...

99 Hey, what about us?

100 Village of the Deemed.

101 Pfftt, Americans don't care about the process.  They just want gubbmint shitcare so they can follow their dreams.

102 The Good, The Bad, and The Deemed.

103 I deem the final score to be USA 3, Canada 2

104 Steve Holt!!

105 Yeah, and significantly enough, twat spelled backwards is pronounced taut...

Posted by: CoolCzech at March 19, 2010 10:04 PM (9IHmo)

Maybe 60 years ago.

106 It's not "ballsy" on Stupak's part.

He, like a lot* of people of faith, is more concerned with looking like he's following the moral rules of his religion than actually following them, and thus protecting innocent children from being slaughtered.

In other words, he's craven.

Posted by: Christoph at March 19, 2010 09:29 PM (0fq7b)

Stupak was always an untrustworthy worm who really didn't care about anything.  He sold his vote on the House bill for nothing more than getting a vote on his abortion language, whether it was taken up or not.  He's dying to sign onto this health scare.  He loves it. 

Frankly, Stupak scares the shit out of me.

107

Never MISUNDERESTIMATE the DISHONESTY or STUPIDITY of  a LIBTARD.

Some of the LIBTARD party are barely above retarded level.

They ALWAYS stay on the WELFARE PLANTATION.

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

108
I just returned from a three-year expedition to the Antarctic. Anything interesting going on?

109 I remember the Clinton presidency and all the attention that was spent on Monica L. and what the president did or did not do.
During this time of national weakness the World Trade bombers trained and were sure that they would succeed .
They did succeed.
America was a weak and disorganised nation then as it is now.
We are about to be hit again by this reasoning. Perhaps not this year but a good chance within a year.

Al Queta looks for weakness and we are telegraphing weakness now.

110 Cry

111

I just returned from a three-year expedition to the Antarctic. Anything interesting going on?

No and you're welcome for the charts, asshole.

112

Thank God, finally the drinking has begun! (For me, I know most morons have been drinking for hours).  Has the revolution started yet?  Did I miss anything?

113

Speaking of entitlements - since the prisoners at Gitmos were given f'n laptops (of course they say they didn't have internet access) ...

where's my f'n laptop???

114

He, like a lot* of people of faith, is more concerned with looking like he's following the moral rules of his religion than actually following them, and thus protecting innocent children from being slaughtered.

Christoph: You should have you little asterisk by the word faith, like so "faith*".

If they are people of faith* then they are concerned with following the moral doctrines of their religion.

*A supernatureal gift given to one by God when one consents with his intellect and his will to a set of beliefs revealed to him through natural law, reason, and revelation.

What you meant was that you believe that people say they are people of faith but are actually liars and are using religion as a campaign enhancement.

People of faith* will act, to the best of their human ability, according to that faith*. Sometimes they fail because they are human but that doesn't make them hypocrits, that makes them imperfect. Bart Stupak may not suceed in getting the federal funding of abortion out of this bill but he has sure tried and faced a significant amount of adversity in doing so.

 

115 That's one heckuva group of celebrities on your list.  Put me down for Wilford Brimley, Jan Michael-Vincent, and Roger Ebert.

Posted by: Slappy

that's a cop out list right there. take some risks...like gary colemam or heidi montag

116 So, he's pulling everything out in an attempt to get it to go his way, but still leaning no towards final passage of the overall bill? Or am I confused? Too many players in this game.

117 110 I was thinking about that today too. While we are busy talking about demonpass we are probably letting demons pass.

118 Wow. I don't even think MacGyver -- with some paper clips, duct tape, and his pocket knife -- could come up with a plan to get out of a situation as f'd up as this!

119 I deem that fat, drunk, and stupid is a great way to go through life.

120 114

Speaking of entitlements - since the prisoners at Gitmos were given f'n laptops (of course they say they didn't have internet access) ...

where's my f'n laptop???

Posted by: tank

Yeah, I hear KSM is a Spider Solitaire expert.

121 I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

122 You're tearing me apart!

123 I love it when a plan comes together.

124 I deem my sausage fat-free and diet friendly!

125 that's a cop out list right there. take some risks...like gary colemam or heidi montag

Posted by: evil libertarian at March 19, 2010 10:16 PM (BGJM2)

Fair enough.  How about Leif Garrett, Eddie Van Halen, and Paris Hilton?

126 I had to stay home tonight. I usually play cards with a mixed group (meaning Conservatives and Liberals) but I'm so angry about this abortion of a bill the guy half of them voted for is trying to gangbang the country with, I can't keep a civil tongue. I'm furious at the willful stupidity of both the elected officials and those who elected them. I picked the wrong Lent to give up flipping off cars with Obama bumper stickers.

127 that's a cop out list right there. take some risks...like gary colemam or heidi montag

Posted by: evil libertarian at March 19, 2010 10:16 PM (BGJM2)

Fair enough.  How about Leif Garrett, Eddie Van Halen, and Paris Hilton?

Posted by: Slappy at March 19, 2010 10:24 PM (ljvjO)

Obviously you should just deem yourself to win the death pool!

128

Stupak isn't standing on principle. He couldn't care less about the actual government funding of abortion. He just wants cover.

He as much admits it.

Earlier this week, he signaled to The Hill that he didn't really want to kill the bill.

"You know, maybe for me that's the best: I stay true to my principles and beliefs," he said, "vote no on this bill and then it passes anyways. Maybe for me is the best thing to do."

Get that? He's cheering for it to pass, abortion funding and all. He just doesn't want to get blamed for it.

129 32 I deem my pooter fresh as a daisy and ready for love.

Posted by: Helen Thomas at March 19, 2010 09:38 PM (QuP9W)

JEEBUS DAMN. MY EYES

130
No and you're welcome for the charts, asshole.

I used them, and I got lost ... asshole

131 I think the Eeyores are incorrect. Stupak won't cave without the changes in hand. That's what this means.

It also means Nancy doesn't have the votes.

132 Fair enough.  How about Leif Garrett, Eddie Van Halen, and Paris Hilton?

Posted by: Slappy

leif garrett thats an ace in the hole right there.

133 Eeyore Pundit is more optimistic on this one than here. The irony.

134

I used them, and I got lost ... asshole

Serves you right, that was Hudson's work.

Cocksucker never did listen.

135 110  I'm betting on before this year is out.

136 Field of Deems

137 Teague to vote no.

Check out IBD's take.

138 So the optimists are betting on the integrity of not just a politician, but a Democratic politician? Ohhh, yeah, lets lay our money down on that one!

139 Harry Teague of NM is a No.

"By some measures Teague was viewed as a lean no, by others undecided. The road to victory for Pelosi without an abortion deal is narrowing. The liberal FiredogLake.com now says Pelosi may have to run the table to win without the Stu-pack."

From Investors.com

http://tinyurl.com/yjnprcx

140 Out damn sock.

141 It's going to pass. Kiss the USA we knew goodbye.

142 From FireDogLake:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has made a deal with Rep. Bart Stupak in order to secure his vote and that of other anti-choice Democrats for the health care bill, which is scheduled to be voted on this Sunday. According to a member of Congress who was briefed on the matter, Pelosi has agreed to let Stupak have a vote on his amendment either before or after the House votes to pass the Senate bill. It instructs the Senate to substitute the language in his amendment for the Senate language on abortion.

http://tinyurl.com/yk8hm6y

143 Another thought on the politics - what if our perspective of Pelosi's objectives is skewed? We've been assuming that Pelosi wants to pass this into law (which she ultimately does). But what if she doesn't have the votes? How about just passing it out of the House? She already knows that she can do it with the Stupak language (they did it before). She accomplishes two objectives: 1) She gets it out of her House, and can claim the Democrats won the vote. 2) She puts the mess (and the hornets nest that is the base) right back in the Senate's lap. The left base has one primary need above all that is driving the Democratic caucus in the House up the wall - they believe Obama is too big to fail. If she gets anything at all out of the House, they'll turn their anger on the Senate. And Pelosi gets the next best thing - for her - to enacting the law. She gets this out of the House.

144 Major Garrett just tweeted that Skelton has discovered that the Senate bill does NOT protect TriCare - so they need to fix THAT after the fact too.....

145 Continued from above

And if the Senate can't get it done because of their "little rules and procedures", and it doesn't become law, then thats not her problem.

146 146 Major Garrett just tweeted that Skelton has discovered that the Senate bill does NOT protect TriCare - so they need to fix THAT after the fact too.....

Nothing like deeming a bill passed in a hurry, is there?

147 WOW....if FDL is right (and the have the wording posted) and Stupak is going to get his vote...did Pelosi just PUNT this back to Harry Reid?

If this is true...how many of the Pro-Choice hags BOLT and turn their vote to NO?

148 144 From FireDogLake:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has made a deal with Rep. Bart Stupak in order to secure his vote and that of other anti-choice Democrats for the health care bill, which is scheduled to be voted on this Sunday. According to a member of Congress who was briefed on the matter, Pelosi has agreed to let Stupak have a vote on his amendment either before or after the House votes to pass the Senate bill. It instructs the Senate to substitute the language in his amendment for the Senate language on abortion.

http://tinyurl.com/yk8hm6y

This is also from the link above:

The deal calls for Stupak to have a vote on his amendment either before or after the House votes to confirm the Senate bill on Sunday. Stupak is confident that he has the votes to pass the measure, and is happy to have the vote after the House passes the Senate bill. He believes that by using a “tie bar” measure, his amendment would be “tied” to the health care bill — which would require just 51 votes in the Senate.

Unbelievable.  Now Pelosi is trying another legislative move (a "tie-bar" measure) to piece together enough votes to pass this thing to avoid the filibuster in the Senate.  As already known, Pelosi & Co. will do anything to avoid having to follow normal protocol in voting on the legislation in both the House and Senate.  Let me add that Stupak is a loser, as most of us knew already.  He desperately wants to vote for the health care bill and will do practically anything to have that chance.

149 149 WOW....if FDL is right (and the have the wording posted) and Stupak is going to get his vote...did Pelosi just PUNT this back to Harry Reid?

If this is true...how many of the Pro-Choice hags BOLT and turn their vote to NO?

Posted by: Lord Maximus at March 19, 2010 11:03 PM (+mfum)

Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps they won't lose the "Pro-Choice hags" if Stupak and the rest of the pro-life Democrats will be satisfied and vote for the original health care bill as long as the House simply votes on their abortion amendment.  If true, then it would seem that we're in trouble, as the "Pro-Choice hags" wouldn't need to bolt if they expected the amendment to fail anyway, but I'm open to someone explaining the full implications of the move as described at FDL.

150 There is no way in the world that Pelosi will have a vote on the Stupak measure before the vote on the Senate bill, but let's pretend that she actually did. Would the Republicans be intelligent enough to all vote "No" or would they be idiots and vote "Yes" just like they did last year?

This is all BS anyway, they will vote on the Senate bill first, Stupak and his band of cowards will vote "Yes", then they'll vote on the abortion measure, it will pass, and the Senate will either never take it up or it will never pass, the Senate bill will be signed into law, and Stupak will proclaim that he was bamboozled.

151 #150 Maybe I don't understand because I am really tired and need to be in bed, or maybe I don't understand because this is like the Fizbin thing from Star Trek and is complete and utter arbitrary bullshit?

This graphic:
http://tinyurl.com/yhjxecc

Needs to be merged with this one:
http://tinyurl.com/yhhwj6t

152 I think that Stupak is so deeply invested after going this far that he wants 2 things:

1) He does want to vote for ObamaCare

2) He does appear to have enough moral standing that he will NOT cast a vote that will kill babies with taxpayer babies. That he sincerely wants that provision in the bill, no questions asked.

Now, the Pro-Choice House Hags have been reported all evening long has being IRATE as they have talked with House leaders. I also think that if Stupak gets his wish and that b/c his provision is a significant change, that the Senate Parliamentarian will say that the Senate has to vote on this BEFORE Obama can sign it.

NRO is reporting now:
Tense times at the Capitol. Democrats are being called into the Speaker's office at the eleventh hour for negotiations. Rep. Allyson Schwartz (D., Pa.) just arrived at 10:20 P.M. Regional Medicare reimbursement disparities appears to be the issue. Staffers are on their cell phones, telling their bosses to hustle in. Twice in the last 20 minutes, Speaker Pelosi has come into the lobby herself, looking for (maybe) arriving  members. It's now 10:30 P.M.

153

Democrats are being called into the Speaker's office at the eleventh hour for negotiations.

Eleventy!!!!

154 Stupak Quixote wants to tilt at his windmill in a gesture that will go nowhere, just to say 'he tried.'  The House will rubber stamp the Senate version and Stupid Stupak's grand moral stand gets a quick 'no dice, FU.'  You're marked for defeat, Barty.

155 Now, the Pro-Choice House Hags have been reported all evening long has being IRATE as they have talked with House leaders. I also think that if Stupak gets his wish and that b/c his provision is a significant change, that the Senate Parliamentarian will say that the Senate has to vote on this BEFORE Obama can sign it.

Posted by: Lord Maximus at March 19, 2010 11:22 PM (+mfum)

If it's a "significant change," couldn't the Senate Republicans filibuster it?

156 P.M. Regional Medicare reimbursement disparities appears to be the issue. Staffers are on their cell phones, telling their bosses to hustle in. Twice in the last 20 minutes, Speaker Pelosi has come into the lobby herself, looking for (maybe) arriving  members. It's now 10:30 P.M.

How do they play with Medicare without needing a new CBO thing?

157 ASSUME THAT EVERY GLIMMER OF HOPE IS JUST A TRAP; A DIVERSION TO GET THE OPP TO WORK LESS HARD.

158 It's not the answer, but I am comforted by the fact that in both the House and Senate, there are some very, VERY smart people.  I suspect they are strategizing nearly 24/7 at this point. 

159

So Stupak is going they way the pro-life movement has gone to its discredit.  The Pro-life movement has done the cave in to demorats promises and walked away the violated virgin/dupe too many times.  Pelosi will laugh her butt off and Stupak will wonder around like a violated virgin professing he wasa duped and lied to, like that makes his betrayal legitimate.  The Stupak crowd will pay for their betrayal on election day, and Pelosi will have a hearty laugh AGAIN.

What fool these mortals be !

(and hopelessly addicted to it too)

160 How do they play with Medicare without needing a new CBO thing?

A separate bill like the Doc Fix?

161 OMG!

Blue on Blue!

Wow!

http://tinyurl.com/yfmsz5z

Wow!

Must read!

162 I deem the revolution should be televised. - Gil Scot Heron

163 Let me explain to you why this horrendous bill won't happen.

I didn't say it wouldn't pass.  Well, yes I did. What I'm saying is it won't happen.

It costs too much.  An impossible amount of money.  An uncountable amount of money.

164 # 166 We got some nice gubmint printing presses that run 24/7, even with union tradesmen (be a real shame if something were to happen to them, though).

165 It costs too much.  An impossible amount of money.  An uncountable amount of money.

Posted by: Cooter at March 19, 2010 11:59 PM (OYw0U)

That's just one of the built in beauties of the legislation! When the shortages come who do you imagine will be the ones deciding who gets access to the 'special clinics' and who stays on public health? Who chooses what unions and companies get better coverage?

When there isn't enough for everybody the guys who decide who gets what have all the power.

166

Does anybody else feel like this is dejvu.  If memory serves me correct, we were all holding out hope that Ben Nelson, who said he was going to hold firm to his pro-life stance, was going to be the vote that stopped the bill in the Senate.  Lo and behold what happened, we had a Christmas eve vote that got us to where we are today.  So maybe it is us who needs to stop fucking the chicken, and realize that there is no such thing as a moderate, pro-life, blue dog, conservative demoncrat. 

With that said, I would just like to personally thank the dumbasses who decided in 2006 and 2008, that they were going to teach the Republicans a lesson and either stayed home or voted for a different party.  Well you sure taught those Republicans, and in the mean time fucked the rest of us over as well.  So my heart felt FUCK YOU!!!!!!

167 Listen to me when I force some f'n knowledge down your f/n throats.

It doesn't matter if these these cok suc'n  libs pass this bill.

There ain't no money to pay for it!

168 Posted by: Cooter at March 20, 2010 12:11 AM (OYw0U)

Yes they know that! We know that! And it seems you know that!

This is about control over every living thing they can get their hands on.

169 DrewM, but then doesn't the separate bill need a CBO stop?

170 170 My dear Cooter. There hasn't been money to pay for jack shit for over a year now. That's why we are in the hole for several trillion dollars and the ChiComs own our soiled undies. Capisce?!

171 And yes, it ain't about healthcare. It's about controlling us dumb proles for our own good - and their profit/amusement.

172 Hey, I'm not saying I want the damn blamed thing to pass, I'm just saying that Glenn Beck can't do a damn thing about it.  These mothr fuk'n cok sukr's are going to do it.  And we can't do a damn thing about it.

What I'm saying is, they can't execute it either.

173 Get it?  They can not execute this POS.

174 DrewM, but then doesn't the separate bill need a CBO stop?

They'll get a score for it but it doesn't matter.

The CBO scoring played two parts in this...

Originally, they wanted to sell the House and Senate bills as lowering the deficit.

Now CBO is important because for a bill to eligible for reconciliation it has to lower the deficit.

Look at the 'jobs' bill Obama just signed...it had a CBO score but it's pure deficit financing. So yeah, they'll run and get the Medicare fix scored but as long as it's separate from this bill and not being passed through reconciliation, it doesn't matter what the score is.

175 This is exactly the process we were thinking of when we wrote the Anti-Constitution.

176 What I'm saying is, they can't execute it either.

Posted by: Cooter at March 20, 2010 12:20 AM (OYw0U)

You and others have savings, 401(k), doctors have valuable practices, hospitals have property and services. These things can be looted and exploited the same way they have been used in other countries. They have done this with automotive companies, financials, banks, Fanny Mae, etc and they will continue to expand their grip on power.

There will come a time when they run out of existing assets to loot and have to print money devalueing the currency, but that wouldn't stop them either.

177 Re#169 opus
"So maybe it is us who needs to stop fucking the chicken, and realize that there is no such thing as a moderate, pro-life, blue dog, conservative demoncrat."

Yep. Better a RINO than a Blue Dog.  People are learning that lesson the hard way aren't they?  Too damn bad they're never going to get the chance to reverse what they've done.
Stupid will Pay.

178 Good night, my fellow and fellow-ette morons. I'm done. Keep on fighting and burning the phone lines. AUX BARRICADES!

179 Bart Gordon has gone suicidal over this bill.  To bad for him.  He can f//n stay in Washington for the rest of my life.

Don't feel that this is the end, that's all I'm sayin'.

180 Coooter, are you in Middle TN? Gordon was my rep there... may he be mounted by a rabid dog...

181 Yep, I've been writing his lazy retired ass every night.

182 So far FOX NEWS has the count at  216 Yea 215 nay, but in reality I think no one really knows the true number. The media is pulling out all the stops to make it seem like this thing is set in stone just like they did for Obama's Chicago Bid. We all know how that turned out, they said it was in the bag and Chicago was voted out in the first round.

183 I think if this thing passes it will be a hollow victory,as the DEMS will lose in NOV, and then Obama in 2012. Then the reinvigorated  GOP will create a new contract with America with dismantling this monster of a bill.

Just like all those labor  unions who fought for higher pay and benefits just to see their jobs get shipped overseas.

184 Why can't I make myself heard?  IT DOESN'T MATTER.

The evil ones can pass the H/C bill, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.

It can't be paid for. It is impossible.

185

It can't be paid for. It is impossible.

Not to mention the Constitutional challenges, states using the 10th Amendment to opt out, and the possibility of unrest. What if they pass a law that no one obeys?

 

186 Cooter, the issue becomes this being a blueprint for how to ram through howlingly unpopular legislation... showing the bad guys how to grab absolute power. I'm only on the way to being a doc, but this bill breaks a whole lot of shit we need to not have governmentally broken.

187 But the taxes matter.  At it's heart, the four years of taxes in the bill are a forestalling of further financial crisis and national bankruptcy. I wonder if that's the real secret here and the one thing that will make it hard to repeal?

188 Perhaps the intention is to cause a financial crisis while they have control of more of the economy and social life of the country than ever before. In such a crisis people will panic and the government already has an array of emergency provisions that can be enacted 'to save the day'. As tmi3rd points out, they can also pass just about anything they want with the Slaughter Rule or by Executive Order.

189 they said it was in the bag and Chicago was voted out in the first round.

Posted by: Gary B at March 20, 2010 12:48 AM (1gWfF)

Too bad they couldn't deem it.

190 In other words, a set-up?  Possible.  What if we're closer to closing our national doors than we realize, and, since they know that the U.S. Government can't run a health care system anyway, all they really want is the tax money to keep the doors open?  Either Way, the rest of the bill's provisions are just a mess and hard to implement without extreme public outcry.  Personally, I think it's the money they want the most.

191

Keep fighting.  This isn't over.  The Dims have themselves tied in knots.  I still don't believe they'll pull this off.  If the worst happens, we'll just need to pick ourselves up, and fight on.

My local Tea Party will be rallying tomorrow in support those who made it to DC.

192 It seems that passing this by legislative legerdemain might be just the trigger needed to cause states to start passing calls for a constitutional convention to, say, enact the proposed Bill of Federalism, rather than passing 10th Amendment resolutions that are largely symbolic. I have seen assertions that there are 38 states that have or will likely pass 10th Amendment resolutions. 38 is enough to force a constitutional convention to be convened. But history shows that it never comes to that. When the number of states gets close to the required number, Congress passes the proposed Amendment(s) to forestall the possibility of a Convention.

193 From HotAir

The good news here is that it surely means Madam Speaker doesnÂ’t have the votes yet, right? Not so fast: A friend of the site e-mailed us about an hour ago to say that he spoke to a Democratic congressman heÂ’s pals with earlier tonight. Quote:

    He tells me with certainty that they have plenty of votes and that some yes votes will be allowed to vote no if they choose for their protection. He says that everyoneÂ’s internal polling has been much better than expected. He says at this point that last sticking point is whether to give Stupak a separate vote, which Pelosi is considering.

Lest you think this is a sketchy “I’ve got this friend, see…” tip, I assure you that he did give us the name of his congressional source. Assuming our tipster’s right, the only reason I can come up with for why Pelosi wants to bring Stupak’s bloc onboard is that she thinks most of the Stupakers occupy safe-ish seats in November — especially if their abortion language passes — and therefore adding them to the tally would let her cut loose some Blue Dogs who are less safe and really need to vote no.

194 They can't do it.  Is that enough?

They can't do it, okay?

The cost alone would cripple us.

195 Maybe you think the Dems are willing to do it.  They are not.

Well, they may be willing, but they can't.  Nobody could.

196 I see absolutely no reason why any House member should trust Reid to keep up his end of the bargain.
Posted by: looking closely

They don't really expect Reid to do so. They just want a figleaf, so they can claim later that Reid was the bad guy who told the fib after this crap sandwich is passed.

197 You and me both.

Here's what I'm saying.  If the dems push this through, they own it.  Not just the bill, but the collapse of the economy that comes with it.

I say to them DO IT!

Come on and DO IT!

Put up or shut up bitch.  Nancy.  DO IT!

198 Over and out

199 The last count I saw, Pelosi was at zero margin for error - she must hold every remaining undecided who voted "yes" or "no" the first time.

No doubt about the horse trading going on, or the bill's fraudulent accounting.  The only question now is are Stupak and his pro-life fellows dumb enough to fall for whatever Kabuki theatre vote Pelosi will give them?

200 Which ever way this goes we win. If this bill fails to pass we win, if it passes this outrage will ruin the DEMS. They will probably lose far more seats in NOV and will damage any chance of Obama getting a 2nd term.

This bill if it passes will by an hot button issue that the GOP can use to create a 2nd Contract with America.

201 Dr. Donna "Obamacare will define us as a people" Christensen: http://tinyurl.com/yb8xfsc "We don't put in the time that the other party does on creating a clear, catchy message that sticks," she said.

202 205 - Unfortunately, I disagree in that it is not a Win-Win. If this becomes the law of the land -illegally crafted and unconstitutional as it is - they will have won, regardless of whether we control all 50 senate seats and 400-odd house seats. The entitlement, once established, will never go away. In due course, Republicans/Conservatives will do what Bush did with Social Security and the Dems will use it to tell the proles "those evil bastards are trying to steal your healthcare!" Once the memory of what happened fade (that is if the public has the usual memory of a flea), they will react whenever they feel anything they are supposedly "entitled" to is threatened. And once they control our health care, they control us completely. Ballgame. America becomes socialist AmeriKa, regardless of what party is in power. In fact, we become a de-facto one party nation. NOW, all that being said, this is no ordinary situation. This is tantamount to declaring open warfare on the Constitution and the American people. Obama, Pelosi and others are definitely committing impeachable offenses. Will the coming Republican majority have the stones to start the proceedings? And if there is a major shift in power come November, can they actually succeed in some form of repeal? All these questions point to the fact that we must defeat this insanity NOW.

203 Further to my previous, anti-histamine/lack-of-sleep addled rant, here is a great editorial about impeachment. READ IT AND SHARE! http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/19/impeach-the-president/

204

I believe the pro abortion women will roll over for the stupak portion of bill, or stupak will roll over while they give him a "graceful way" to make the excuse.

why? why not- they are ultimately getting 90% of what  ALL Dems have seemingly always wanted in one fell sweep, control of our industries.17% of our economy  and power and control over All Americans.

 

205 From the AP and no, I won't link it.

"Organizers say thousands of people are headed to the nation's capital to protest on the seventh anniversary of the invasion of Iraq.

A coalition of anti-war groups, led by military veterans as well as activists Ralph Nader and Cindy Sheehan, are scheduled to hold a rally at noon Saturday in Lafayette Park near the White House and march through downtown. Stops on the route include military contractor Halliburton, the Mortgage Bankers Association and The Washington Post offices."

-------

Not a peep about the Anti-health care demonstrations planned for today.  I guess they figure this will explain the crowds in DC. 

206

i hope i'm wrong, but do any of them seem to have  real morals? they are willing to stand by with all the stealing of Americans dollars , already they believe everything that was our Is Theirs.

they have no problem with "flowing around " the constitution document or the very Personal  rights   of Any of us (for our own greater good of course)

for instance the shrieking about patriot act, yet there it is still, the war in iraq, there it is plus extended at points to Pakistan and  the smaller attack on Yemen, quiet aint it ? more intrusive laws in the works for internet, speech, on and on...

when they shrilly scream about Bush as we all know, it was only political action to destroy Reps. and Bush, not REALLY any moral standing on their own, just a useful tactic to gain control.

207 Tami, well if there are problems with the protesters it is likely they will All the sudden  conveniently Find that tea partiers are there.

208 AUX BARRICADES! NO PLEASE. The French Revolution was one of the left. No French Revolution allusions please. That's what Pelosi and her ignorant demons are.

209 Tami, well if there are problems with the protesters it is likely they will All the sudden  conveniently Find that tea partiers are there.

Posted by: willow at March 20, 2010 08:48 AM (7FgWm)

LOL!  You are right.

210

New from NRO:

Prospects for a Stupak deal may be collapsing. (Which, yes, could mean prospects for a vote tomorrow are collapsing. Or it could mean the White House/Pelosi twisted enough arms.) More, no doubt, to come.

UPDATE: My read of it, via Twitter "English":

if stupak deal prospects are collapsing, that either means nancy has her votes or stupak said senate must vote on fix 2, unravelling everything

211 "when they shrilly scream about Bush as we all know, it was only political action to destroy Reps. and Bush, not REALLY any moral standing on their own, just a useful tactic to gain control." Kind of like this situation where the Dems are about to pass the Romney/1993 Republican healthcare plan. This plan is to the right of Nixon's! It doesn't look like they need all the Stupak folks. Just a couple. This too, shall pass.

212

Republican Senator Orrin Hatch said Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives are “nuts” to think tomorrow’s vote on health-care legislation will resolve the issue.

If the measure passes, Senate Republicans have enough votes on at least two points of order to alter the measure and send it back to the House for a second round of votes, Hatch said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt,” airing this weekend

@ HA

213

Ray, 1 Mass citizens are having trouble funding it,

2 Its a state right to do as they will. with for  Their constituents

This is Federal all states Must comply.and against the majority of citizens

214 but as far as likely  to pass , probably

215

going to be a decent day, I'm going top hit the plant / seed  nursery,hopefully find some decent  veggies.

I don't have a green thumb at all, wish me luck!

216 I don't have a green thumb at all, wish me luck!

Good luck.  I planted yesterday and unlike previous years, no tomatoes.  I got tired of feeding the bugs and birds.

I planted cat nip this year to make the kittehs happy.

217

PLEASE call the pro-choice bloc and scream at them for NOT going along with this. Use alinsky on the lefties.

Diana DeGette

CALL HER!!

(202) 225-4431
(303) 844-4988

218

novemberiscoming

DOT

com/confirm

DOT

php

219
Kind of like this situation where the Dems are about to pass the Romney/1993 Republican healthcare plan.

First of all Romneycare is bankrupting Massachusetts and the only thing keeping it afloat is federal funds. Where is a national plan going to get the bailout money it will need? Second Massachusetts now has the highest insurance premiums in the country. Third the doctor shortage is rapidly becoming a serious problem and waiting times to see a primary care doctor are just getting longer and longer. Fourth I really don't care who's plan it is it doesn't work.

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