October 07, 2010
— DrewM Recently the NY Times had one of their semi-regular “Conservative Gorillas In The Mist” pieces. This time they discovered, much to the horror, that conservatives still read books by people like Hayek. I guess itÂ’s a step in the right direction that liberals acknowledge that conservatives can actually read. Still, they seem pretty mystified that we take these ideas seriously. Naturally, that leads to an attempt at discrediting those ideas (usually in the form of mocking).
Enter this post by liberal wunderkind Ezra Klein.
There isn't any serious player in American politics who supports a centrally planned economy. There are people who support social insurance, and people who support national defense, but no one wants Apple or General Mills to take production orders from a bureaucrat. But it's very hard for political movements to adjust to a world in which they only have to be 10 percent as worried. In some ways, there seems to be an opposite incentive, as lower stakes require groups to use more extreme rhetoric if they're to keep their followers engaged. If Obama had really pushed for a socialized health-care system, the right could've argued against that. As it was, his plan was quite moderate, and so death panels entered the discussion.At this point, the liberals I know are excited by the prospect of a few things. Extending health insurance -- probably private -- to all Americans. Reducing health-care costs for all Americans, as that will leave them with more of their income to spend on what they wish. Doing something about carbon emissions, preferably through market signals like a carbon tax or cap-and-trade. And, in my case, some sort of early-childhood education system. Marx would be very disappointed, but Hayek, I think, would be quite comforted.
Klein is playing a cutesy little game here (though I doubt itÂ’s one heÂ’s aware of). His thesis is just because the American liberals aren't centralizing power in the same exact ways that their ancestors in HayekÂ’s time did, people on the right are paranoid kooks for paying attention to him. Yes, the Road to Serfdom and a lot of other favorites in the conservative canon speak of centralized power more akin to the old Soviet of command and control systems, but just because the style of government control has changed over time doesnÂ’t mean the results arenÂ’t the same.
First, I'm not sure why Klein to argue that no one wants companies taking “production orders from a bureaucrat” when the US government has more than a passing interest in how General Motors, Chrysler, AIG and a number of large financial institutions are run.
You can certainly say that we arenÂ’t at the point where the federal government is issuing 5 year production plans exactly like the Soviet Union but that doesnÂ’t mean itÂ’s a disinterested spectator when it comes to the choices companies are allowed to make over wide swaths of the American economy.
Even if the federal government didnÂ’t own substantial stakes in 2 of 3 American car manufacturers it is still deeply involved in the types of cares that can be made and the choices Americans will have when they buy a car.
Liberals like Klein love to pretend that if they toss the word ‘market’ onto their Cap and Trade dreams it makes everything alright. Creating a ‘market’ where none is required still leads to greater government control over economic activity. Look at this way…there are way too many pundits today, they are polluting public discourse. In order to cut down on all the clutter we are going to create a new ‘market’ where some pundits will be able to keep publishing while others are silenced. In order to do this the government will sell ‘pundit credits’ and those that can afford them and find a seller can continue to publish, the rest will be out of luck. Would that new ‘pundit market’ mean greater or lesser freedom for pundits and readers? In Klein’s telling of it, that wouldn’t be government increasing its role in the private sector in a harmful way since the pundits wouldn’t be on the government payroll and the government won’t be dictating word for word what’s written like they were in the old Soviet Union. As for the idea that ObamaCare isn’t a huge government power grab is almost too absurd to even acknowledge.
And those are just a handful examples of where Democrats would have us travel down a path to centralization and government control. Yet Klein seems to be saying they just want to nibble here and there, no big deal. Well it is a big deal and the more it's allowed, the bigger deal it will become.
While the rhetoric and methods of those who seek to amass centralized power may change, the message that free people need to be forever vigilant in defense of their freedoms is an eternal one.
Posted by: DrewM at
10:16 AM
| Comments (59)
Post contains 826 words, total size 5 kb.
Posted by: Dan at October 07, 2010 10:21 AM (1jzSs)
Posted by: USS Enterprise CV-6 at October 07, 2010 10:23 AM (tS2LH)
How about Fannie & Freddie, Ezra?
Oh, and cocksucker, how about the government taking over ALL student loans?
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 07, 2010 10:23 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: Wicket at October 07, 2010 10:24 AM (VmtE9)
That was my initial thought as well. Either Klein is ignorant of the news, or he's lying. I haven't felt particularly charitable to liberals lately, so I'm going to go with lying.
Posted by: Slublog at October 07, 2010 10:25 AM (0nqdj)
Posted by: mallfly at October 07, 2010 10:25 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Mr Pink at October 07, 2010 10:25 AM (w+RW6)
Posted by: The Ezra Klein Method at October 07, 2010 10:26 AM (KF/Jh)
Doing something about carbon emissions, preferably through market signals like a carbon tax or cap-and-trade.
I laugh out loud @ 'market signals.'
This Ezra Klein cocksucker knows nothing; he's merely repeating all the mental pap he absorbed in his time on campus.
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 07, 2010 10:26 AM (uFokq)
It's always the first sentence that is the biggest lie.
Posted by: SlaveDog at October 07, 2010 10:27 AM (H6Jyg)
Posted by: The Ezra Klein Method at October 07, 2010 10:27 AM (KF/Jh)
Posted by: Mr Pink at October 07, 2010 10:29 AM (w+RW6)
Posted by: The Ezra Klein Method at October 07, 2010 10:31 AM (KF/Jh)
from Klein's article: "There isn't any serious player in American politics who supports a centrally planned economy. "
Now revised to be honest: "There isn't any serious player in American politics who openly supports a centrally planned economy. "
Remember Obama after the GM/Chrysler bailout? Now they're going to start making the kind of cars the American people need? No one in gov't want to tell anyone how much salt to put in what I choose to eat? No one wants the taxpayers to subsidize windmills to make expensive electricity?
Posted by: mallfly at October 07, 2010 10:32 AM (bJm7W)
Just stick with writing original thoughts and debating serious thinkers you disagree with, fakrissakes
Posted by: runninrebel at October 07, 2010 10:32 AM (i3PJU)
Wow that sentence is really pissing me off. This little shit thinks he can con people into thinking 'saving the planet' from climate change can turn into some free market enterprise enjoyed by all us fans of Milton Friedman.
And the word preferably is a lie. Funny how Ezra Klein doesn't go into other ways we'll be forced to reduce carbon emissions.
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 07, 2010 10:33 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: mallfly at October 07, 2010 10:34 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: The Ezra Klein Method at October 07, 2010 10:35 AM (KF/Jh)
To the latter, that's a lie. In Family terms, it's called using lots of "buffers" with concomitant czars enforcing rules if not outright "public" ownership. To the former, only one of those is actually Constitutional, that quaint compilation of words the Left opts not to read or deigns to ignore.
As for the "extreme rhetoric," bite our non-collective asses, you hypocrite.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 07, 2010 10:35 AM (swuwV)
GM and Chrysler, sure, but not those companies, and that means we're not socialist marxists and you republicans have it all wrong. Can't we all just get along, with you guys serving us?
Posted by: Ezra at October 07, 2010 10:37 AM (2I0rN)
Just so I'm clear...
This was the same twirp, Jewish nonetheless, that said not everything the Nazi's did was all bad. Do I have that right?
K, moving on.
Posted by: laceyunderalls wearing sunglasses indoors and asking that you keep the volume down at October 07, 2010 10:39 AM (pLTLS)
BTW, CAFE is something you order at Starbucks, not a government program expressly designed to shape the content of production from the automotive industry.
Posted by: The Ezra Klein Method at October 07, 2010 10:39 AM (KF/Jh)
Ezra's right. None of these fuckers could possibly want anything to do with a centrally planned economy. They just like the free blowjobs.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at October 07, 2010 10:40 AM (fLHQe)
Posted by: Captain Hate at October 07, 2010 10:41 AM (hRNYI)
Posted by: FDA at October 07, 2010 10:41 AM (i3PJU)
Posted by: mallfly at October 07, 2010 10:41 AM (bJm7W)
I was surprised by the New York Slimes in one caption:
"Tea Party supporters, many of whom gathered in August in Washington, have made best sellers out of books by long-dead authors like Frédéric Bastiat and Friedrich Hayek."
I really am surprised the Commiecrat writers didn't state that as "long-dead white male authors"....maybe they didn't want to let the proverbial cat out of the bag....
Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 07, 2010 10:42 AM (ujg0T)
It is also amusing for the New York Slimes author to note that "But when it comes to ideology, it has reached back to dusty bookshelves for long-dormant ideas."
As opposed to his rehashing of Marx, Fanon and Gramsci.
Or to go even further back, to the serpent's temptation to Eve in the Garden that "you shall be as Gods" and to try to create Heaven on Earth.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 07, 2010 10:45 AM (ujg0T)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 07, 2010 10:46 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Oldcat at October 07, 2010 10:49 AM (z1N6a)
but no one wants Apple or General Mills to take production orders from a bureaucrat.
How about bureaucrats setting prices?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at October 07, 2010 10:51 AM (P9+0W)
just watch what the left accuses the right of doing ... its a good bet that the left is ACTUALLY doing it ...
astroturfing
taking special interest money
taking lobbyists money
taking money from Big Oil
bigotry
lies about ObamaCare
supressing the vote
stealing elections
politicized Justice Department
fearmongering
Posted by: Jeff at October 07, 2010 10:53 AM (A3tpD)
Posted by: hu at October 07, 2010 10:57 AM (QcFbt)
Posted by: the Butcher at October 07, 2010 11:08 AM (8g9qq)
Posted by: Lazarus Long at October 07, 2010 11:12 AM (8edQv)
As for the idea that ObamaCare isnÂ’t a huge goverment power grab is almost too absurd to even acknowledge.
Aha!! You did acknowledge it, which means it isn't absurd at all! You admit that health care reform is actually a good and necessary thing.
Almost.
Posted by: FireHorse at October 07, 2010 11:19 AM (sWynj)
Because the gummint inflicting arbitrary and artificial limits on by-products of economic activity for specious reasons is ALL about the market.
Posted by: nickless at October 07, 2010 11:22 AM (MMC8r)
Oh, and a lot of conservatives have actually read 1984. (The book, not the lyrics to Van Halen's sixth album.) So we're not fooled when an intellectual opinion leader throws out terms like "Orwellian."
Lefties, on the other hand, say "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, et cetera, et cetera" and want us to think they've recited an entire book.
Posted by: FireHorse at October 07, 2010 11:25 AM (sWynj)
>> At this point, the liberals I know are excited by the prospect of a few things.
Uh-oh.
>> Extending health insurance -- probably private -- to all Americans.
The "probably" part is comforting.
>> Reducing health-care costs for all Americans, as that will leave them with more of their income to spend on what they wish.
Like on more expensive health insurance to cover the less expensive health care.
>> Doing something about carbon emissions, preferably through market signals like a carbon tax or cap-and-trade.
This has been tried. It's in effect now, in fact, for measurable pollution that isn't carbon. Some companies pollute less than the legal limit, and they can sell that gap to companies who pollute more than the legal limit. It's a huge money-transfer scheme that uses environmental protection laws to do everything except protect the environment.
>> And, in my case, some sort of early-childhood education system.
Like being taught the alphabet by your parents? Ooh, sensitive area; sorry.
>> Marx would be very disappointed, but Hayek, I think, would be quite comforted.
Probably.
Posted by: FireHorse at October 07, 2010 11:35 AM (sWynj)
Posted by: WalrusRex at October 07, 2010 11:44 AM (xxgag)
Posted by: Kevin at October 07, 2010 11:47 AM (mu7VB)
Posted by: MayBee at October 07, 2010 11:56 AM (WetPl)
Posted by: TimInVirginia at October 07, 2010 12:02 PM (uBNLO)
If your widgets are cars, they'll tell you all the safety devices they must have, what mileage they need and how many minorities own your suppliers. But no, they don't want to TAKE OVER car companies. Er... wait. Right, they'd like to sell those car companies back, now that the UAW has been bailed out.
80,000 pages of regulations. Hundreds of pages of tax forms. An army of tort lawyers. Another army of regulators who get to make shit up on the fly. Not to mention the SEC, FBI, DEA, IRS, EPA and a hundred other alphabets that didn't exist a century ago. But no, we don't want to RUN or OWN businesses (other than car companies, all education, student loans, home loans and just about everything except video games -- so far). That would be socialism. No, no socialists here.
Posted by: Randall Hoven at October 07, 2010 12:08 PM (I4dSA)
Posted by: East Bay Jay at October 07, 2010 02:45 PM (ocHBO)
Posted by: Nimrod1176 at October 07, 2010 02:57 PM (QImuf)
Posted by: Simon at October 07, 2010 05:04 PM (tAgw3)
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"There isn't any serious player in American politics who supports a centrally planned economy."
So, THEY don't take their leadership seriously either. Nice to know.
Posted by: Dang Straights at October 07, 2010 10:18 AM (fx8sm)