1 Eureka!!!

2

Finally.

Fuck Socialism. Good piece by doc Zero at Hotair.  We needs to steal him.

3 AAK! You linked to the New York Times?!

4

And Victor Davis Hansom has some thoughts about how one might go about building a resurgent Germany if one were so inclined.

I think you're quite attractive too.  Whoever you are.

5 #3  It's a good piece.

As to why it appeared in the NYT, well, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.  I've never heard of Steven Erlanger, but I hope he doesn't get ostracized for simply speaking the truth about the unsustainable of the Euro model.

6 I dunno. Our progressives always seem to be stuck on stupid. And they're so deep in denial no amount of disaster fazes them.

7
The Leftwing media has a funny way of stating the obvious well after the fact.

Like how they suddenly realized that the HCR was a budget buster...after it was passed. And how the Stimulus bill was bunkum...after it passed.

And now they tell us: socialism was the rise and fall of the Europeon Union house of cards.

Yeah, no shit.

8 Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military.

America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military.

9
don't dance for the dunce

10 If it should choose, Germany could go nuclear in six months, its arsenal reflective of a country that makes Mercedes and BMWs. That is not so wild an idea in an age when unstable nations like Iran and North Korea boast of their arsenals and their aggression, while others such as Turkey and Brazil flaunt U.S. faculty-lounge sermons on non-proliferation.

But why would they?  I don't think they're that "angry" yet.

There was a German exchange-student in my HS and I once suggested to him that Germany should go nuclear just to warn off the Russians about using Germany as a conduit to smuggle nuclear arms components.  You should have seen the look on his face...

11
it doesn't even warrant a response

12 Straight from the no shit sherlock file.

13 10 Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military.

America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military.

Dumbass, in Germany, military spending is mostly a jobs-program. They were basically ineffective in Afghanistan, with the bulk of the fighting being done by the Brits, Canadians, and Australians, (and of course the US). 

14
Europeon Union = Planet Hollywood

Terrible idea from the get-go. Huge investment. No return. But the investors kept sinking money into it.

15 But why would they? I don't think they're that "angry" yet. They had no reason to as long as America's nuclear umbrella sheltered them in NATO. Now that NATO is moribund, the Germans are once again going to have to worry about Russia on one side and the French on the other (mostly Russia). And as VDH points out -- they could build nukes in about ten minutes. The French did it in the 1960's, and with far less engineering know-how and political rationale than the Germans have. FWIW, the Japanese could do the same. The only thing stopping the Japanese and the Germans from building their own nuclear arsenals is that at the present time they don't feel threatened enough to need them. That will change if America's influence wanes.

16
AoLTimeWarner

17
Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military.

America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military.

Posted by: snapdragon at May 22, 2010 07:38 PM (5Etcj)

You think maybe that may have something to do with the U.S. being over five times as big in terms of land mass and population and being the only deterrent against Red China and the resurgent Russians  ?

Somebody hand this idiot a dunce cap.

18 "They were basically ineffective in Afghanistan"

I don't think any country has been what you'd call "effective" in Afghanistan.

19
I'd much rather see the Poles have nukes instead of the Germans or those crazy Japanesas.

20 Europe is a wonderful place. Paris is my favorite city. But EuroZone European Progs? for me to poop on

21

You know what else isn't effective? My G.E. manufactured gaydar. I keep waking up the next morning next to wino's with penis's

22 Troll is threadjacking.

23

Hey, you know what else isnt always effective? Condoms

 My dad used one, but here I am.

24 When capitalism fails peope lose money, assets, maybe go to jail, the damage is usally centralized. When socialism fails entire nations fall; poverty, malaise, depression at best.

25 Of course the Europeans can't maintain Utopia; their taxes are way too low. We'll show them how it's done right.

26

"America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military."

Thanks for playing kid...What's your point?  The US military is a massive watershed for the development of cutting edge technology and the training of the troops who maintain and implement that technology.  We take raw undisciplined recruits who don't know much beyond sucking their thumbs and picking their asses and turn them into fine young men and women who are a credit to this nation...I'll take the military's pricetag of 20/% or so of the Federal budget anyday as the costs of doing business as a Superpower...When compared to trillions squandered on bridges to no-where, HUD, Section eight programs, and literally thousands of vote-buying schemes that have "NO ADDED VALUE" to our society other than enabling fraud, abuse, and indiscriminate pro-creation of entitled classes who refuse to take care of themselves, there is no comparison...

27 #19  You think maybe that may have something to do with the U.S. being over five times as big in terms of land mass and population and being the only deterrent against Red China and the resurgent Russians  ?

Idiot probably doesn't think they are any sort of threat.  Socialist solidarity and all.

Snapdragon = "useful" idiot. 

Of course, Barracky trusts the Russians too.

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration on Friday removed sanctions against three Russian organizations the U.S. had previously accused of assisting Iran's effort to develop nuclear weapons.

28 10 Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military.

America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military.
Posted by: snapdragon at May 22, 2010 07:38 PM

I spend 25 percent of my pay on beer, and cousin snap spends 1 percent. Those numbers would improve for me if snap quit drinking all my beer

29 ...Europe is a wonderful place. Paris is my favorite city...

Believe me, it's wonderful over the course of a vacation, or the span of a semester or year abroad.  Get beyond that, and you'll discover the banlieux (suburbs)/hell holes.  The elitism, the lack of social mobility, the government-imposed straight jackets and a taxation hell.  And the culture of elitism, arrogance, and backstabbing.

30
True or False?

A free-market capitalist system can never fail. I mean the whole entire kit-n-kaboodle, can it fail?

31 Hey snap faggot, go stand in the corner.

32 The reason the corporation looks bigger than the government is the corporation is bigger than the government.

33 20 "They were basically ineffective in Afghanistan"

I don't think any country has been what you'd call "effective" in Afghanistan.

Posted by: snapdragon at May 22, 2010 07:44 PM (5Etcj)

The Taliban foul their man-dresses and then hide behind women, children and infants at the sound of a lawn mower engine (sounds too much like a Predator).

We'd be doing better, but Hillary!, Dingy Harry and company got in the way.

34 Workers of the World UNITE! Oh, ahem, I'll have a double decaf latte with cinnamon and extra cream. please. And hurry up, I have a 2:00 heading right for me!

35
I'm gonna say true, and here's why. Simply put, mainly because I know of no other way to put it, an economy entirely based on that type of system cannot entirely fail because in that type of system there will always be winners and losers.

So if someone shit the bed, there's probably someone at the other end who can capitalize on it. Am I on the right track, here? Put me some knowledge.

36 33 Hey snap faggot, go stand in the corner. Posted by: dananjcon at May 22, 2010 07:53 PM (OW0nw) ------- NTTIAWWT

37 28 excellent smack down. Monty's earlier thread certainly illustrates the point. Get your fuckin shine box snap maggot.

38 A resurgent Germany???  Aren't they the world's biggest net exporter now?...Unfortunately, socialism and removing god from their society has resulted in a birth rate that dooms them to obscurity...Something snap-faggot could agree with, a negative population growth that will be the end of a great society...Why are libs so goddamned stuck on Malthusian nihilism??? 

39 I can haz cheezburger an you pays 4 it?

40 A purely capitalist economy will not fail. It will have its up and downs but they will moderate as long as the government leaves it alone.

Contrast that to the communist/socialist economies and you see that they always fail. Because as Margaret Thatcher said, you will always run out of other people's money.

We have been a truly capitalist economy here since the late 1800s when the progressives started gaining influence.

41 we need to become more forward thinking like Europe

42
Health care "reform" IS welfare.

43

Did you notice that next to the linked article there was a link to an article in the health section disparaging bacon?

That's right, they were agin the baconz!

They can not die fast enough.

44
Yet, Vic, we have China. Why is this pure communist nation much better off than the EU?

I'll take a stab and say... because China doesn't give a shit about providing social services and entitlements?

45 A resurgent Germany???  Aren't they the world's biggest net exporter now?

Their primary markets are southern European countries -- the ones collapsing now.

46 I don't think any country has been what you'd call "effective" in Afghanistan.

Posted by: snapdragon at May 22, 2010 07:44 PM (5Etcj)

Yeah I know, America sucks. By my calculations everytime a democrat runs on the America Sucks platform republicans pick up 346.335 seats in the house.

47
Simply put, hating capitalism and destroying capitalism and the left's economic idiocy and arrogance are going to kill off the power of human ingenuity and individual liberty. 
The left only see things through the eyes of the all-encompassing state.

Kill the engine, and the car dies too.  Funny how progressives do not understand this basic concept.

48
So is this true: For a communist economy to succeed it must treat the people like worker ants working for the collective and nothing more?

49 Yet, Vic, we have China. Why is this pure communist nation much better off than the EU?

I'll take a stab and say... because China doesn't give a shit about providing social services and entitlements?

Yeah, I always thought that kinda stuff was overrated.

50 46 Yet, Vic, we have China. Why is this pure communist nation much better off than the EU?  I'll take a stab and say... because China doesn't give a shit about providing social services and entitlements?

That, and China has benefitted from exporting cheap crap to everyone, along with their building boom.  Sadly, that boom is about to end (can't continue to build entire cities solely based on speculation) and with the recession/depression crippling consumer demand...

Let's just say that in the end, there will be only chaos.

51

Finally.

Fuck Socialism. Good piece by doc Zero at Hotair.  We needs to steal him.

Posted by: garrett at May 22, 2010 07:31 PM (U7dmO)

He's kinda long-winded.

52
That, and China has benefited from exporting cheap crap to everyone, along with their building boom. 

Yeah, because China - Their Exports = North Korea.

53

Hey snapfaggot - You think the fact that we are in Germany _{and europe} protecting their asses has something to do with their lack of military spending?

Stop watching your mom in those the sheiße videos. She was young and needed the money.

54 I spend 25 percent of my pay on beer, and cousin snap spends 1 percent. Those numbers would improve for me if snap quit drinking all my beer

Posted by: knuckledragon, snap's redneck cousin at May 22, 2010 07:53 PM (sYxEE)

I don't have a cousin, wingnut.  And my mom pays for good imported European beer for me.  So really I don't pay any % for beer.

Stupid wingnut.

55

Barack's new slogan:

Someone else's chicken in every pot.

Do the math.

56 10 Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military.

America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military.

Posted by: snapdragon at May 22, 2010 07:38 PM (5Etcj)

I'm betting your IQ isn't even in the double digits is it cockholster?

57 So is this true: For a communist economy to succeed it must treat the people like worker ants working for the collective and nothing more?

Posted by: Mr Peebles at May 22, 2010 08:08 PM (XuxCF)

I only know of two that are halfway successful. China started out it's growth treating people like worker ants but has drifted to a more capitalistic command economy as of late. The workers still get treated like ants but the upper class are becoming rich capitalists. Vietnam has become at least stable if not successful after implimenting the same pattern.

58 Yet, Vic, we have China. Why is this pure communist nation much better off than the EU?

Posted by: Mr Peebles at May 22, 2010 08:06 PM (XuxCF)

Not pure.  Not even as pure as the USSR.

59 #17  They had no reason to as long as America's nuclear umbrella sheltered them in NATO. Now that NATO is moribund, the Germans are once again going to have to worry about Russia on one side and the French on the other (mostly Russia). And as VDH points out -- they could build nukes in about ten minutes.

I don't think the Russians are going to head towards Europe - it's easier to cower them through energy blackmail than actual invasion.  Good point though. 

60 China is as Communist as the Heritage Club. It's full of peasants and millionaires. The Communist residue is there just for the political repression.

61 Why is this pure communist nation much better off than the EU? They're not, not by a long shot. About 500 million Chinese still live lives of abject poverty; the wealthier coastal Chinese are too busy buying shit and inflating the bubble to care what happens to the rural cavemen, so long as they stay on their farms and their sons and daughters work for pennies in the factories. This Chinese mercantilism only works when the export-engine is running in high gear. That engine is about to run out of fuel. There is no such thing as Social Security or Medicare/Medicaid in China. And as their population ages, the costs of dealing with that hugely expensive, unproductive, and unpopular 500 million people is going to bankrupt China several times over. Mark Steyn said it first, but I keep repeating it: they'll get old before they get rich.

62
So is this true: For a communist economy to succeed it must treat the people like worker ants working for the collective and nothing more?

It's best when you work for the good of everyone else as a slave to the state, and that you are grateful for your pitiful sustenance and shit government housing. Be happy comrade doesn't come and kill you and take your land.  Oh wait - too late.

Be happy, the progressive communist may let you live another day, as long as you are useful. A strong hard working non-thinking ant is a good ant.  plus?  Free health care.

63 I don't think the Russians are going to head towards Europe - it's easier to cower them through energy blackmail than actual invasion.  Good point though. 

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at May 22, 2010 08:14 PM (Acgmr)

Russians expand.  It's who they are.  It's why they are.

64 Why are libs so goddamned stuck on Malthusian nihilism???  Posted by: Nozzle

It's because of their passive-aggressive rage against the realities of life, scarcity, and human nature. Lefties really don't like reality that much and when they are confronted with the difficult choices in life, they react like amoral children.

65 #63  Not pure.  Not even as pure as the USSR.

Which is ironic because Mao's followers called the USSR "revisionist" in the 1960's for not being as hard-core as Mao after Stalin's death. 

Somebody once termed China's system as "national Communism".  Dunno how apt it is though.

66 Why, snapdragon, bless your heart

67

_{Posted by: FUBAR at May 22, 2010 08:11 PM (1fanL)}

We can't all be as succint as yourself, now FUBAR, can we?

I like the doc.  His pieces are certainly the best thing at HA. 

Think of the fun it would be wading through Ace Double posting Dr. Zero and Monty posts! 

I know I'd get even less done than normal.

68 Ok morons, I'm watching the yanks/mets game and am half in the bag already so I'm out. However I played golf today at West Point with a Vet friend of mine and would you believe that as we were leaving, Barky's motorcade drove right past us!! We laughed our balls off and actually drove about five miles directly be him. I managed to get a decent pic of the motorcade(pretty impressive) before they turned up rt87 to Stewarts AFB. I'm gonna post the pic tonight on the ONT if I make it!! Oh yeah go fuck yourself snapfaggot!

69 As big as this problem is for the EU, they have a bigger problem.

70
China started out it's growth treating people like worker ants but has drifted to a more capitalistic command economy as of late.

And could that be their downfall eventually?

This is what I'm trying to get at and I'm trying to work it out. I posit (whatever that means) that either a communist-based economy or a capitalist-based economy can both succeed and prosper^* if they are pure. But trouble starts when they start to mix.

^{*provided they can produce sufficient and efficient shit and have goods to trade, of course.}

71

We can't all be as succint as yourself, now FUBAR, can we?

I like the doc.  His pieces are certainly the best thing at HA. 

Think of the fun it would be wading through Ace Double posting Dr. Zero and Monty posts! 

I know I'd get even less done than normal.

Posted by: garrett at May 22, 2010 08:17 PM (U7dmO)

I like him.  I agree with him.  I just have a compulsion to point out warts.

72 Euro socialism worked because the US was the economic dynamo and we picked up a lot of their slack, national defense for example.
If we go socialist, there ain't nobody left - like Krauthammer says, we are the backstop, there is no one else.

73 28

"America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military."

Thanks for playing kid...What's your point?  The US military is a massive watershed for the development of cutting edge technology and the training of the troops who maintain and implement that technology.  We take raw undisciplined recruits who don't know much beyond sucking their thumbs and picking their asses and turn them into fine young men and women who are a credit to this nation...I'll take the military's pricetag of 20/% or so of the Federal budget anyday as the costs of doing business as a Superpower...When compared to trillions squandered on bridges to no-where, HUD, Section eight programs, and literally thousands of vote-buying schemes that have "NO ADDED VALUE" to our society other than enabling fraud, abuse, and indiscriminate pro-creation of entitled classes who refuse to take care of themselves, there is no comparison...

Posted by: Nozzle at May 22, 2010 07:51 PM (sE08M)

Nozzle, that was fucking awesome!

74 #68  Russians expand.  It's who they are.  It's why they are.

Not disagreeing with you on that. Only with the direction of the expansion.  I think they'll head South first.

Reference Vladimir Zhirinovsky's "tome" - The Final March to the South.

75 I don't think the Russians are going to head towards Europe Westerners always underestimate the hatred and fear the Russians feel for the Germans. It goes back hundreds of years. Don't be fooled by the German liberal/green tilt in recent decades; I have a feeling that the old Teutonic assertiveness will soon burgeon anew -- particularly now that Uncle Sam isn't going to want to fund Europe's defense as well as our own. To Russia, Europe and China are the two old enemies -- right from Medieval times. Russia gets weaker as the decades pass, and the paranoia grows. Germany's birthrate is below replacement level right now, which may cause problems, but it could tick back up (and may be doing that right now). Russia, on the other hand, has undergone a demographic collapse that probably cannot be reversed. Fifty years from now, they might be seeing a vastly stronger and more affluent Germany, and see their own weakness and disarray. Don't laugh it off. Europe and Russia have a long and bloody history -- it's not madness to think that they'll revert to the mean.

76
They're not, not by a long shot. About 500 million Chinese still live lives of abject poverty; the wealthier coastal Chinese are too busy buying shit and inflating the bubble to care what happens to the rural cavemen, so long as they stay on their farms and their sons and daughters work for pennies in the factories. This Chinese mercantilism only works when the export-engine is running in high gear. That engine is about to run out of fuel.
----------------------------------------

Okay, but taking the people in China out of the equation, (bear with me), the nation of China is prosperous, yes?

77

I posit (whatever that means) that either a communist-based economy or a capitalist-based economy can both succeed and prosper^* if they are pure.

As long as you ignore the entirety of human history and the nature of man.

78 "10 Germany is spending a reasonable 1.5% of its GDP on its military. America, by comparison, is spending close to 5% on its military." No, Germany gets away with spending 1.5% BECAUSE America spends 5% and has been protecting them and the rest of the Europeons since 1945. Stop trying to think, Snapperhead, it is not your forte.

79 Not disagreeing with you on that. Only with the direction of the expansion.  I think they'll head South first.

Reference Vladimir Zhirinovsky's "tome" - The Final March to the South.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at May 22, 2010 08:20 PM (Acgmr)

Agreed.  South, East as far as it's easy, West.  I'm sure they have a lot more respect for China than for Europe.

80 Mr Peebles, the key phrase you missed there was "inflating the bubble". We're the guys inflating that bubble. When we decide we're done buying artificially-cheap shit from China, that "prosperity" you now see in China is going to look like the lack of prosperity we now see in Dubai and Portugal.

81 This is what I'm trying to get at and I'm trying to work it out. I posit (whatever that means) that either a communist-based economy or a capitalist-based economy can both succeed and prosper^* if they are pure. But trouble starts when they start to mix.

^{*provided they can produce sufficient and efficient shit and have goods to trade, of course.}

Posted by: Mr Peebles at May 22, 2010 08:19 PM (XuxCF)

Depends on what you call success. You could say any totalitarian country is successful as long as the people who have power stay in power and whatever portion of their citizens they can't afford are left to die or are murdered.

I haven't heard of a communist country being successful in that it's citizens were able to live like the brochure said they would. 

82

As long as you ignore the entirety of human history and the nature of man.

Posted by: Noticer at May 22, 2010 08:22 PM (XBdMr)

Heh.  Communism can't run an economy.  There's no accurate, timely information.

83 I don't know who Victor David Hanson is but "two days in Munich" gives you zero insight into German society...I lived there for two years...Yes, there is a lot to like in Germany but Germans are not necessarily happy people nor is Germany a utopia.  I met Germans who were enraged by the money being transferred to the former East Germany to build their decayed infrastructure left by the communists...The autobahn nowadays is a series of traffic jams...The socialists will not build more roads for fear of killing frogs or ferns so Germans who drive spend a lot of time in traffic...Their tax rate is massive...Their social strata is stagnant...Germans do not have much social mobility in terms of careers...If you are a blue collar type, it is virtually impossible for you to move to management, not to mention ownership and start-ups...Their regulation burden is ubsurd and exacerbated by the EU...No, it is definitely not all beer and skittles in Germany, notwithstanding Handsome's supposed love-fest for two days in Munich...The freedom to enjoy life, live as you want, and reach your own rung on maslow's hierarchy is right here in the US, for now...

84 I don't know who Victor David Hanson is 

Posted by: Nozzle at May 22, 2010 08:25 PM (sE08M)

Duuuude!  Serious?  You're in for a treat.

85 Not disagreeing with you on that. Only with the direction of the expansion.  I think they'll head South first.  Posted by: Kratos

If their actions in Georgia and the EU nat/gas markets are any indication, I'd wager they're looking to leverage their commodity power over Europe and re-capture some of the influence they had before the collapse.

That and buy up a bunch of US companies.

86 Noticer As long as you ignore the entirety of human history and the nature of man.

No, no, no. THIS time is different!

87
When we decide we're done buying artificially-cheap shit from China, that "prosperity" you now see in China is going to look like the lack of prosperity we now see in Dubai and Portugal.

I suppose it would. But why would we do that? Home Depot and Wal-Mart is keep on stocking Chinese crap as long as it's the cheapest goods on the market.

88 Okay, but taking the people in China out of the equation, (bear with me), the nation of China is prosperous, yes?

Posted by: Mr Peebles at May 22, 2010 08:21 PM (XuxCF)

Yes, right now China is profitable, so are the Mexican drug cartels.

89

No, no, no. THIS time is different!

You got it.  Reminds me of a little game called "Just the Tip".

90 Okay, but taking the people in China out of the equation, (bear with me), the nation of China is prosperous, yes? That's a nonsensical statement. Chinese people are China. (Just as American people are America.) It's not the patch of dirt you're standing on; it's the culture you form as a group. And, per capita, China is still very poor. They're getting much better than they were, but this "progress" is a house built on sand; it's not sustainable, as they will find.

91 a little game called "Just the Tip".

Posted by: Noticer at May 22, 2010 08:29 PM (XBdMr)

I loove that game too!

92

Anyone need a cab?

Posted by: Victor Davis Hansom at May 22, 2010 07:36 PM (MFbfZ)

Well played!

93

I posit (whatever that means) that either a communist-based economy or a capitalist-based economy can both succeed and prosper^* if they are pure.

As long as you ignore the entirety of human history and the nature of man.

 

I believe in spite of everything that people are basically good at heart.

- Anne Frank

_{Right before she was hauled off to Bergen-Belsen.}

94
And, per capita, China is still very poor.

ahhh shit! That's a big hole you just put in my wacky theory. I didn't even consider it - but yes, I suppose the best measure of economic success is a nation's per capita GDP.

95

_{Right before she was hauled off to Bergen-Belsen.}

Even in Bergen-Belsen, all the prisoners weren't equal. It amazes me dumbfucks everywhere think socialism can work, if it's done right.

Can't be done right, you stupid scrunting hippies.

96

 I just have a compulsion to point out warts.

Me, too.

97 I posit (whatever that means) that either a communist-based economy or a capitalist-based economy can both succeed and prosper^* if they are pure. But trouble starts when they start to mix.

A communist based economy can never work because it ignores simple human nature.  People will always take the easy way out for their daily bread. The job of government is to make it hard to get that daily bread through taking it from others. When the government makes it easier to get your bread by taking it from others eventually everyone want their daily bread form others. In short, nobody works and they all expect to get free bread.

This is where Europe is at now. The bubble is collapsing. Russia had the purest communist economy. It only stayed around as long as it did through absolute terror of its citizens.  Before it finally collapsed the average citizen was barely existing while mired in poverty and misery.  Even the apparatchiks who ran the country had a lower standard of living than our own so-called "working poor".  It was a miserable failure.

98  suppose it would. But why would we do that? Home Depot and Wal-Mart is keep on stocking Chinese crap as long as it's the cheapest goods on the market.

Posted by: Mr Peebles at May 22, 2010 08:29 PM (XuxCF)

Becuase our ginormous trade deficit is no more sustainable than our ginormous government deficit. One day we will have to make some hard choices and that day is coming on fast.

99 What was Russia doing in Georgia if not expansion?  Add to that 1.) their poisonous (in every sense of the word) ventures into Ukranian politics; 2.) the talk that has gone on for a while, in both countries, about connecting itself with Belarus (which, given its historical ties and the fact it's still effectively a communist dictatorship, I don't think is any stretch at all) and I think Russia has been taking steps towards expansion for a while now.  The problem is the government needs something to maintain some level of support and legitimacy and if not the economy, then they have to look somewhere else.

100 it wouldn't take much for Russia to dominate over 2/3's of Europes oil imports Short-term, yes; long term, who knows? They can only exert power when they have the military to do so; a falling birthrate (and a male population that tends to die as early as 60) means a weaker military in 20 years. You can't conscript young men or women who haven't been born. They can keep the Caucasus and 'stans under their boot for now, but later? Russian power is going to fade...inevitably. Their population will halve in 50 years, and halve again 50 years after that. This means that a huge country like Russia, which now has a population of approxmiately 140 million, will have a population of about 70 million in 2060. That's spread over a landmass that encompasses 12 time zones. Russia is very aware of this. They get weaker while China gets stronger (and maybe Germany). At some point, some strongman -- how the Russians love their strongmen! -- will suggest a pre-emptive solution to their problems.

101 Ok I'm back...I sell automotive starters and alternators made in china. The defect rate is 15%!! But its still more cost effective to sell the chinese crap. However we only sell our heavy duty customers our reman product or new oem stuff. The defect rate on the forementioned...2%.

102 Ok I'm back...I sell automotive starters and alternators made in china. The defect rate is 15%!! But its still more cost effective to sell the chinese crap. However we only sell our heavy duty customers our reman product or new oem stuff. The defect rate on the forementioned...2%.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 22, 2010 08:40 PM (OW0nw)

How much more would it cost to sell a US manufactured starter?

103 What brand starters? Dip n' Ship or Spray n' Pray?

104

China started out it's growth treating people like worker ants but has drifted to a more capitalistic command economy as of late.

It's my understanding that the "miracle" of China is the fact that they went from a command economy to a market economy. That is what enabled many to get rich. Politically, they are still very much communists and the people cannot disrespect the government but they are able to go into whatever business they wish. The thing that's gonna get them is the housing bubble. It has not gotten them yet and it's coming. The thing I don't get is why we keep buying their products. They build shit and have no standards, such as lead paint in toys and stuff like that. I bought a chinese pipe wrench once and it broke on me the thrid time I used it. I'll never buy another thing from them when I need quality.

105  However we only sell our heavy duty customers our reman product or new oem stuff. The defect rate on the forementioned...2%.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 22, 2010 08:40 PM (OW0nw)

...................

you get what you pay for. when it comes to starters and stuff like that. pay the extra bucks. but now days most young people dont know what one is. muchless how to change one.

106 Slightly OT but...As midevil clergy contemplated how many angels could dance on  the head of a pin, I contemplate how many wrinkles on Obama's sphincter...I can't help it...It's what I do...

107 When will we resemble Greece, with the Unions controlling the Public sector,  states broke,  gvt . borrowing for costs, hcb and citizens not able to pay the amt. of taxes needed to cover all the cost .

108 109...Just go to a dealer and buy a new oem starter for your car, it will probably cost you 150.00±. Then go to autozone or pep boys and you'll probably pay around 50-70 bucks. BTW since Delphi went under I don't think anybody makes new oem quality automotive starters or altenators in the U.S. I've been in the buisness for 20yrs.

109 You know, I was reading this article on the NYT website and the thing that kept running through my head was the book, "Logan's Run".  (Not the movie, the actual book by William Nolan.)

In the book, the maximum age anybody can get before being put to "Deep Sleep" is 21.  It goes on to explain that this was the result of the "Little War", where all the young people in the world revolted against the adults and put them to death.  It never goes into much detail about the Little War, or how it started.

Reading this article about how the average age of the European citizen is getting older and older, and the younger generation will have to work harder and longer with reduced benefits to support the retiree's pensions... I can see how some anger and resentment can result.  And maybe thoughts of a "purging"...

110 They build shit and have no standards That's not exactly true. They build to whatever spec they're told to build to, at the unit cost specified. Guitars are a good example (or at least, I know a bit about that market). Back in the 1970's, American companies like Martin and Gibson priced themselves out of the low-end market. Enterprising companies in Japan saw a market-niche, and moved in. But soon Japan priced themselves out of the hobbyist market, and the manufacturing of cheap guitars moved to Korea. This was the status in the late 1990's -- you could get a Martin-style dreadnought guitar built by Samick for about $400, about a third of what the equivalent Martin guitar was going for. And the Samick was of good quality -- not great, but good enough for most. But Samick found that building decent guitars for dirt-cheap prices wasn't a viable business model, and the manufacturing moved over to China. The Chinese will build whatever they're told to build. If they're told to build a crappy plywood guitar for a unit cost of $5, they'll do it. If they're told to make a reproduction of a high-end Martin D25, they'll do it (and do a good job of it, furthermore). Much of China's success rests on three legs: CNC machines that make machining wood and metal both cheap and accurate; workers that only fetch about 1/10th what their Western counterparts make (and in conditions that no Western worker would tolerate); and a regime that keeps the currency brutally undervalued so that exports can prosper. Like I said: this machine works great as long as the export market runs at high gear. But if exports slow down...bad news, for all kinds of reasons.

111

I'd like to see Paris burn.

Russia can just take war brides and produce a baby boom.

Rinse, repeat.

112 the boxheads learned their lesson in WW2, tho a lesson learned truly of the twisted nature in Europe from uberklassisms..it aint a coincidence the -isms pour out of the lowlife skum of upperclass

113 In the book, the maximum age anybody can get before being put to "Deep Sleep" is 21.  It goes on to explain that this was the result of the "Little War", where all the young people in the world revolted against the adults and put them to death.  It never goes into much detail about the Little War, or how it started.

I'm one.

114

I've been in the buisness for 20yrs.

Posted by: dananjcon at May 22, 2010 09:01 PM (6Rh3U)

..................

where where you when i had my old 1973 Sportster? i bought alot of Delco Regs. and stuff.

115 Monty...they reverse engineer..via contract or outright theft. R&D is eliminated, overhead is reduced. We can't compete.

116 Yeah, theft... that's the ticket!

117 121 email me at metrodist dot com...I have 50±yrs of shit on my shelf. Dana

118 We can't compete. It's not that we can't compete. We choose not to. We choose not to work for $1 a day and no benefits. We choose not to live in sex-segregated dormitories, overseen by often-sadistic warders. We choose to consume rather than to build, and to demand the lowest possible cost for the goods we consume. In a sense, we live civilized lives compared to the Chinese workers who make our electronic gizmos and machines. We have a lot more free time, a lot more spending money, and better prospects for our lives. But it comes at a price, and the price is that we don't make things and they do. We still create far more than they do, and I suspect this is a cultural trait. There is something in the Chinese culture that inhibits originality or creativity, particularly of the industrial sort. They may build all the iPods and cell phones and laptop computers; but Americans and Europeans invented them. When all is said and done I think we're taking advantage of the Chinese far more than they're taking advantage of us: at some point, the Chinese will insist on partaking of the lives they make possible for everyone else, but by that time it will be too late. The Indians, I think, have a far better chance of making the leap to a first-world nation than the Chinese do.

119 When will we resemble Greece, with the Unions controlling the Public sector,  states broke,  gvt . borrowing for costs, hcb and citizens not able to pay the amt. of taxes needed to cover all the cost .

Posted by: willow at May 22, 2010 08:58 PM

 

Now.

120 Monty, its funny you mention india. I actually have a customer in india in witch I've built a good buisness relation with. He spends a lot of money for my oem product(shipping being his biggest cost) he tells me his biggest problem in this day and age is mfg infrastructure and skilled educated people...they are still probably 20 yrs away of being a int'l factor. See newindo dot com

121 BTW since Delphi went under I don't think anybody makes new oem quality automotive starters or alternators in the U.S. Posted by: dananjcon

Seems like there has to be some opportunity now for a start-up to tackle that niche. Even if only for high-end / industrial use.

122 If it should choose, Germany could go nuclear in six months,

A little longer, Germany can't simply go nuclear with a small number of devices and little or no capability to deploy them.  Germany needs wake up one morning with a credible, distributed force = ~ 100 devices; sub launched cruise missile, mid-range solid fuel rocket, and air drop capable.

I would love to have a camera on Putin when they made the announcement, esp. when they say they have to, due to the nascent Iranian threat.

123 dananjcon -- My experience with India isn't an education problem at the top end; it the process and shop floor knowledge and experience that they are missing.  Essentially the NCO's to parallel another VDH theme.

124 When compared to trillions squandered on bridges to no-where, HUD, Section eight programs, and literally thousands of vote-buying schemes that have "NO ADDED VALUE" to our society other than enabling fraud, abuse, and indiscriminate pro-creation of entitled classes who refuse to take care of themselves, there is no comparison...

Posted by: Nozzle at May 22, 2010 07:51 PM (sE08M)

This! 

125 They're not sustainable when we shell out 90 percent of their defenses. Yet we are supposed to have this same system and the lying libs claim it will be sustainable while paying for our defense and their defense? Obviously an explosion is coming should the Obamonstrosity not be repealed and reversed.

126

It's not just the PIIGS that are running these unsustainable systems--practically the whole Eurozone is in trouble:

From the Wall Street Grand blog

http://tinyurl.com/2dhbpzz

1. Ireland – 1,312%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 1,312%   -  Gross external debt: $2.32 trillion   -  2009 GDP (est): $176.9 billion

2. United Kingdom – 425.9%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 425.9%   -  Gross external debt: $9.15 trillion   -  2009 GDP (est): $2.15 trillion

3. Switzerland – 382.2%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 382.2%   -  Gross external debt: $1.21 trillion (2009 Q3)  -  2009 GDP (est): $317 billion

4. Netherlands – 376.6%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 376.6%   -  Gross external debt: $2.46 trillion (2009 Q3)   -  2009 GDP (est): $654.9 billion

5. Belgium – 328.7%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 328.7%   -  Gross external debt: $1.25 trillion   -  2009 GDP (est): $381 billion

6. Denmark – 316%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 316%   -  Gross external debt: $627.6 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $198.6 billion

7. Sweden – 264.3%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 264.3%   -  Gross external debt: $881.5 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $333.5 billion

8. Austria – 256.2%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 256.2%   -  Gross external debt: $827.9 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $323.1 billion

9. France – 248%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 248%   -  Gross external debt: $5.23 trillion (2009 Q3)  -  2009 GDP (est): $2.11 trillion

10. Portugal – 235.9%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 235.9%   -  Gross external debt: $548.45 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $232.4 billion

11. Hong Kong – 223.1%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 223.1%   -  Gross external debt: $672.9 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $301.6 billion

12. Finland – 220.2%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 220.2%   -  Gross external debt: $402.24 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $182.6 billion

13. Norway – 202.6%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 202.6%   -  Gross external debt: $553.4 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $273.1 billion

14. Spain – 186.1%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 186.1%   -  Gross external debt: $2.55 trillion (2009 Q3)   -  2009 GDP (est): $1.37 trillion

15. Germany – 182.5%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 182.5%   -  Gross external debt: $5.13 trillion   -  2009 GDP (est): $2.81 trillion

16. Greece – 170.5%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 170.5%   -  Gross external debt: $581.68 billion   -  2009 GDP (est): $341 billion

17. Italy – 147.4%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 147.4%   -  Gross external debt: $2.594 trillion (2009 Q3)   -  2009 GDP (est): $1.76 trillion

18. Australia - 124.3%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 124.3%   -  Gross external debt: $1.025 trillion (2009 Q2)   -  2009 GDP (est): $824.3 billion

19. Hungary – 121.9%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 121.9%  -  Gross external debt: $225.56 billion (2009 Q2)  – 2009 GDP (est): $184.9 billion

20. United States – 96.5%  -  External debt (as % of GDP): 96.5%    -  Gross external debt: $13.77 trillion (2009 Q3)  -  2009 GDP (est): $14.26 trillion

A lot of this burden is debt the countries owe to each other, by the way--that's why Greece and the EU were tearing their hair out trying to keep Greece from defaulting.  The first Eurozone country that defaults sets off a chain reaction that essentially renders the euro, and thus the EU, worthless.

127

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