1 Probable Constitutional Challenges to ObamaCare http://tinyurl.com/ygyg37v

2 I got your rules right here.

3 What are the odds that some just will simply choose not vote? And will that benefit us?

4 How would an executive order override what is in the bill? 

5 I don't think I can stand another day of this bullshit.

6 There will be a great upheaval.

7 this is the straw that will break our back

8 So, FOX is in the tank for the dems at the bottom of the 9th as usual.

9
It is a fig leaf.  They cannot change the Senate Bill at all.  They have to vote on it as is.  Period.

If Stupak is going to cave, then he was going to cave all along.

10 The only person that gives me hope is Paul Ryan.  The man is a stud.

11 Pretty cool how B+1rry lied about governing with 50%+1, huh?

12 I'm gonna go see the Hubble 3D Imax movie at 5 PM EST and when I get out this shit better be over with.

13 What are the odds that some just will simply choose not vote?

The ones from states with NCAA teams playing/hosting today have to pissed they're not in a free suite swilling free booze this afternoon.  Go!  Go to the basketball game!

14
The "executive order" is all bullshit.  This again falls under "Democrats making up the rules as they go" - corruption.

15 Stupak is just a bidding whore.

16
Also, if this does pass, I bet they get 216 even.  And that will be very telling.

17 Finally, a basketball thread!

18

Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.) said Sunday morning that he is close to striking a deal with the Obama administration on abortion provisions.

"We are close to getting something done," Stupak said in an interview with MSNBC.

Stupak said he engaged in talks late into Saturday night.

The possible deal would focus on an executive order that would specify there would be no public funding for abortions in the healthcare bill.

"We're close but we're not there yet," Stupak said.

Democratic leaders said Sunday they have the votes on healthcare reform, but Stupak said until there is a deal struck, they don't have the 216 votes they need.

Stupak said "there were eight of us" in the negotiating room, all of them no votes.

------
Fool.

More at link

From The Hill

http://tinyurl.com/yg68yjo

19

Stupak = DemocRAT

I've always felt that their uncertainty was manufactured...a kubuki dance. This is really a sick method of getting taxpayers to pay for abortion. All the 'health care' is noise. It's Satan's playpen on the Hill.

20 There's a good article over at Human Events with the title starting "GOP House Whip..." (this site keeps rejecting my posts with links for some reason...) explaining how an "Executive Order" is just a ruse, so Obama can say afterwards, "don't blame me that the Order was shot down, I'm not to blame...Present!".

21 Kaptur is from a pretty solid Dem district (+10, iirc), so it's not surprising she was the first today to commit.  Let's see how quickly others now follow.

Just remember, the votes are there.  There is ZERO chance of this not passing. 

Pelosi is a winner (a bitch but a winner).  She won't lose a vote like this.  If the GOP had some big goal (like social security reform), you know they would fail and did fail.

22 I can't believe these assclowns are really this arrogant.

23 20 ed exactly.....he will say anything and then apologize later claiming it was for the greater good

24 Anyone who thinks Stupak is this "dumb" is four times dumber than they think Stupak is. There is no such thing as a pro-life Democrat.

25 Fig leaf?! How about voting PRESENT, like their fearless leader did back in the old days? So fucking sick to my stomach with this shit.

26 At the top of Drudge, it reads:

OVERHEARD: Walking into Capitol this morning on phone, Speaker Pelosi tells Hoyer: 'Steny, we have to get to 217. None of these members wants to be the deciding vote'... Developing...

So, as some have said over the past couple of days, they need 217, not just 216.  I guess it doesn't bother that pile of crap Pelosi, who is from a far-Left district and can basically keep her seat for life, that members of her caucus feel this way because their constituents don't want it.

27 12 I'm gonna go see the Hubble 3D Imax movie at 5 PM EST and when I get out this shit better be over with.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at March 21, 2010 11:04 AM (YRjsF)

When you're in the theater, you'll see the horrorific mist of ObamaCare slowly making its way across the theater floor, consuming everyone in attendance until there is just a dead silence.

28 I don't think I'll even be able to stomach watching this on television. The risk of seeing Pelosi's botoxed-grin as if she did me some kind of a favor.

29 she has the votes...and if she doesn't technically have them now she will. this will pass. remember this day well. this is the day the united states of america will cease to be the united states of america. obama will get what he wants, and the left will have won - for now. what will this country be like 30 years from now? we will survive, of course, but we will no longer thrive...and that is what america has been about...we will cease to be a super power in the world...

30 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz says they don't have "a hard 216."

31 If these turds vote and pass this bill, I'm positive they will have no regrets.  The level of arrogance is breath taking.  When November comes around and they all lose their cushy jobs, you will hear them say..."even though the vast majority of citizens were against us, we did the right thing"  These shitbirds truly feel they know best, fuck the constituents, we don't want your opinions.  It's beyond disgusting and sickening....it's frightening.

32
Huh?  Get the Diana DeGette(D) pro-abortion vote first, then have Obama swoop in and give Stupak and his gang what they need for cover?

What a corrupt circus.

33 It's the end of everything, knuckleheads. It's like finding out you have ball cancer, and when you go in to get your balls removed, the surgeon finds cock cancer and has to de-dick you too. Total emasculation.

Down With Health Care!!

34 This is how Stupak can be swayed with the Executive Order.

Spending doesn't start flowing until 2014.  The Hyde Amendment can be expanded to cover the new funds the HHS will administer at next time Hyde comes up for a vote.  The next time Congress is schedule to appropriate funds for HHS is in 2011.  POTUS pledges to expand Hyde to cover the new funds.  Stupak accepts.  He votes Yes.

99% confident this deal goes down today.
49% confident the deal holds up through 2011.

There is a prolife majority in the House.  When the White House is breaking backs left and right he it can get the votes.  However, once the arm twisting is over and its a straight appropriations bill then the White House loses all its leverage.  At that point the 240 seat prolife majority could pass the expanded Hyde Amendement.

35 I don't think I'll even be able to stomach watching this on television. The risk of seeing Pelosi's botoxed-grin as if she did me some kind of a favor.
Posted by: sunny black

Is anyone else here already breaking a No-News vow today? I am.

Thank God I'll be at an Open House at a local religious institution all day.

36 Looks like it will come down to if the stupak crowd hold enough members. Thats the whole ballgame I think. They should vote NO and run out of the chamber.

37 They don't now have the votes nor have they ever. Notice how Steny and all the rest have been saying they are confident that "they will" have the votes. Nancy may be playing chicken with the rest, but that's not exactly an enviable position to be in, is it? Not when you're just hours from voting. Of the 9 remaining Stupak members, 6 are in Repub districts. I can't imagine any of them thinks they'll have a job come November if they vote yes. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the guy who loses his job and turns his back on his principles just to make the wicked witch of the west (and the big ego) happy.

This is, I think, the best position we could have reasonably hoped for given how bad we are outnumbered in the House, and I am proud of Boehner, Ryan and the rest (not to mention the conservative blogosphere and all the tea party folk) for putting up one hell of a fight. We are very close to winning this thing.

38 216 or 217- they will all be guilty of destroying this economy. No prisoners come November.

39 There are no blue dogs. Only socialist DemocRATS.

40 God Save Us from this atrocity

41 Fig leaf or not, if Stupak votes yea, he's toast in November. And I will happily donate to his opponent. And then begin planning for a move out of the country. I can't afford socialized health care at my age, and I have no intention of obliging Obama by kicking off any sooner than I have to.

42 Stupak is a biggest fool on earth if he accepts some executive order! lol

43 Death Panels

44

Front page of this morningÂ’s Los Angeles Times, Michigan Rep. Dale E. Kildee says his priest told him there was nothing in the bill that should keep him from voting for it, and I quote:
“For Kildee, who spent six years in seminary as a young man, support for the bill was contingent on its banning federal funding for abortion. He studied the text. He absorbed criticism for waffling. He consulted like-minded colleagues. <b>But he was not sure what to do until he took the question to his priest, who, despite other church leaders’ opposition, told him the bill was true to his antiabortion commitment.</b>“

Who's this guy's priest, Nancy Pelosi?   Kind of answers itself.

 

45 For the first time in my adult life, i'm afraid for my country.

46 When will Boehner stand up and call these people out when the cameras on? I would expect statements sternly delivered to the affect of "The Democrat party is the face of evil" This is the party of death" "These are the new communists of the world", etc...

Fuck this decorum BS. Call, Them. Out. fer crissakes.

47

"So, as some have said over the past couple of days, they need 217, not just 216.  ..."

They're beyond brain dead if they think 217 is going to shield anyone.  What nervous rep is going to be 216, trusting some other chump will be 217?

48 http://bit.ly/aWPetr    Redstate is saying they dont have the votes.

49 We'll not only survive, we'll thrive. Join or die, bitches!

50
Another Democrat shell game.  More corrupt fence walking.  They have to please the pro-abortion crowd and the pro-life crowd at the same time.

Empty promises that can be flushed away with the passage of time. Stupak - your a sucker if you fall for it.

51 Posted by: arhooley at March 21, 2010 11:12 AM (x89dC)-- what's the No-news vow? You're not going to watch the live vote putting us in the history books with Rome and Athens...?

52 This administration and congress belong in a federal penitentiary.  Vote the bums out of office and into prison.  Do not go quietly into the night, stand up and FIGHT.

53 It really is mind boggling to me that my tax dollars could actually go to paying for other people's abortions. WOW, just WOW.

54

Torches? ... check.

Pitchforks? ... check.

Split-rail? ... check.

Feathers? ... check.

Tar? ... TAR? ... crap!

(I guess I'll just have to use super-glue instead...)

 

55 Rove is just destroying Plouffe on This Week, and all Plouffe can do is go back to "8 years of blah de blah"

56 bring this up in every conversation and lay the blame at the feet of every friend, family member, co worker that voted for a congressman that votes yes or voted for obama.....shame them mercilessly, when they complain they are out of work, can't afford their taxes....can't get in to see a doctor because their doctor QUIT! can't fill a prescription because the pharmacy ran out or doesn't accept their policy..........laugh at them and tell them it's their own damn fault

57 Does anyone else see Paul Ryan and think of one of the good guys from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged?

58 You guys are looking at this like the GOP is in charge, where they can't win a big vote and have no clue what's going on.

Pelosi has the votes...more than enough votes. 

She does not lose.

59 (I guess I'll just have to use super-glue instead...)

I've heard battery acid gets sticky a few hours after application.

60 They don't have the votes until Stupak folds. I don't care if he is vote number 300 it's not going to give  him cover.He will forever be known as the deciding vote.

61
I don't want to be pessimistic, but, remember how we all hung our hopes on Ben Nelson?
yeah - well, there we go.

Hanging hopes on Democrats is usually a disappointment.

62 We bought and paid for the votes to get to 216. I wonder what that 217th vote will cost?

63 57 list yes

64 When will Boehner stand up and call these people out when the cameras on?

Well he did say yesterday that it was Armageddon. When questioned by a reporter seeking more vivid lines he said yes, this bill will destroy the country.

F&F acted like they were surprised and he was over the top. BTW, most of Fox has been on the side of obamacare since the very beginning.

65 I will not go quietly.

66

POWER.  That's always what these types of "transformative" bills have been about.  The power to regulate the individual.  The power to rein in the States.  The power to tax or subsidize anything, for any reason, if it helps create yet another crises that will require yet another government solution.

If you look at the founding documents, and the rights given to the people from a power higher than ANY government, and then look at the restrictions put upon us by the government, you would be hard pressed to recognise the same country. 

 Land of the Free?

67 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz says they don't have "a hard 216."

From the looks of her she couldn't get anything hard. 

68 58 You guys are looking at this like the GOP is in charge, where they can't win a big vote and have no clue what's going on.

Pelosi has the votes...more than enough votes. 

She does not lose.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:18 AM (siar6)

Instead of just spewing your own personal bullshit, why don't you start posting some links that support what you're saying?

69

There's a pretty good read at pjm with some implications of ObamaCare that I hadn't fully considered before - http://tiny.cc/pznsa

 

70 How the hell did any voter anywhere ever cast a single vote for Debbie Wasserman Schultz?  It really boggles the mind.

71 Pelosi has the votes...more than enough votes.  She does not lose.
Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:18 AM (siar6)

I'm not going to debate you on this, but do you really think if she had the votes in the bag 2 days ago that she wouldn't have thrown a big splashy press conference within 2 minutes with that botoxed mug oiling over like she'd just found the cure for cancer?

72 From the looks of her she couldn't get anything hard. 

Posted by: mpfs at March 21, 2010 11:20 AM (QuP9W)

Skyrocketing up the rankings.

73 RepDanBurton :The House is set to reconvene at 1pm, with the health care votes later this evening. Just a few more hours to try to kill this bill.

74 Fox has been on the side of obamacare since the very beginning.

True dat.

75 Any word on Loretta "The Runner"  Sanchez?

76 67 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz says they don't have "a hard 216."

From the looks of her she couldn't get anything hard. 

Posted by: mpfs at March 21, 2010 11:20 AM (QuP9W)

I'd hit it!

77 Saw Paul Ryan on CSPAN yesterday.  What a gem.

78 She does not lose.

With a massive majority she has to lie,cheat and bribe to get a razor thin victory.Why don't you pull your head out of her twat and realize this should have been a cake walk but thanks to her it isn't.

79 You're not going to watch the live vote putting us in the history books with Rome and Athens...?
Posted by: sunny black

Heh, maybe I should soak up my fill of news before I leave the house today. If this thing passes, God knows I won't be watching or reading the news for a week. Can't stand to see their triumphant grins.

80 The Catholic Church may have good reason to want this bill passed.  They do so much charity work, have hospitals, and clinics.  It would be interesting to know how much money this bill would save them.  I don't mean to be critical of the Catholic Church, but they must be looking at the bottom line and thinking, "wouldn't it be great if everybody had to donate towards medical care for the poor."

81 What is funny is Politico's current predictions for the 2010 elections. They have maps for the House and Senate and are predicting 7 seat pickup in the Senate and app 38 seats in the House for Republicans.

I still say > 50 in the House (one pundit I read say > 75) and about 5 in the Senate.

If this crap sandwich passes I may have to increase those numbers.

82

Instead of just spewing your own personal bullshit, why don't you start posting some links that support what you're saying?

Posted by: conscious and waiting for the end of the world as we know it vote at March 21, 2010 11:21 AM (Vu6sl)

www.bob.com, you peon.  Sources are for the hoi polloi.

83 Is mentioning the Patriotic Act Which Is Not Named Without Banishment from HotAir a banning offense here, too?

84 How the hell did any voter anywhere ever cast a single vote for Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

Every 50 ballots I fill out, I gets free money!

85 75 Any word on Loretta "The Runner"  Sanchez?

Posted by: beerologist at March 21, 2010 11:22 AM (tgXx6)

She's been spotted in a white Ford bronco heading down the interstate.

86 Does anyone else see Paul Ryan and think of one of the good guys from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged?

listkeeper: Ryan credits "Atlas Shrugged" with turning his life to public policy.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel published a profile about Ryan.
http://is.gd/aRFqR

87 For the first time in my adult life, i'm afraid for my country.

So, that makes how many wars and terrorist attacks you slept through, exactly?

88

"From the looks of her she couldn't get anything hard.  "

I'd hit that.

89

Remain calm, my friends.

Get angry but remain calm.  The only way this is the end is if it fails to pass.  There will be challenges and states like Idaho are already moving to block it.  This will get to SCOTUS and it will fail.  Hang this pile of shit around every Democrat.  There is no blue-dog they are all part of the Democrat party that produced Obama, Reid and Pelosy.  I can tell y you, all this "bipartisan", get-along-with-your-neighbors-who-happen-to-think-differently crap ends today.

(And the "I didn't know they'd do that," excuse will not cut it...)

90 FOX has the AFL-CIO head stooge on right now. Gave him an open forum with no questions. Swell.

91 For anyone who wants to go guns-blazin' 300 style...

Priority #1 indicated by asterisk (*)

PLEASE CALL! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE
Loretta Sanchez (202) 225-2965 Fax: (202) 225-5859 *
Earl Pomneroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 *
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 *
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 *
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 *
John Tanner (202) 225-4714 (731) 885-7070 *
Lincoln Davis (202) 225-6831 (931) 490-8699 *
Marcy Kaptur (202) 225-4146 (419) 259-7500 *
Daniel Lipinski (202) 225-5701 (312) 886-0481 *
Jim Matheson (202) 225-3011 (801) 486-1236
Bart Stupak (202) 225-4735 (989) 356-0690 *
Harry Teague (202) 225-2365 (575) 393-0510

92 Tweet from GOP Conference: Democrat leader says they do not have the votes to pass the health care bill http://bit.ly/aPi8hV

93

This will all go away later today when Jack Bauer suddenly shows up on the floor of the House and saves our country from the Evil.

I pity the fools.

94

www.bob.com, bobsuckscock.com.  Sources are for the hoi polloi.

Posted by: bob at March 21, 2010 11:23 AM (1fanL)

FIFY

95

listkeeper: Ryan credits "Atlas Shrugged" with turning his life to public policy.

He sure walks-the-walk.  His physical features look like the illustrations I've seen of Hank Reardon and John Galt too.

 

96 The Catholic Church

Who?

97 58 ...
Pelosi has the votes...more than enough votes. 

She does not lose.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:18 AM (siar6)

Hi, Bob (siar6)!  You capitalized your "B" since last night's Axelrod time-on-the-clock. Looks great!

98 So today we decide if America is still a free country or a socialism that deserves whatever it gets from enemies foriegn or domestic.  Big stuff.  Even if Obamacare doesn't pass, the fact that we came within a sliver of America going Marxist will haunt us for a long, long time.

99 So, that makes how many wars and terrorist attacks you slept through, exactly?

I was never afraid America would be destroyed by al Qaeda after 9/11, because I knew we (especially our military) were stronger and better than they were--and I was right, up until the Obama admin started treating terrorists like shoplifters.

Being destroyed from within by our own citizens' greed and ignorance is completely different.

100 A vote against healthcare is a vote for the military industrial and insurance complex!

101 "With a massive majority she has to lie,cheat and bribe to get a razor thin victory."

C'mon, this is a sea change not just in American politics, but for America itself.  Creating a new entitlement is not just another vote.  Of course, some members know that this will cost them their jobs, but they know this bill is "forever" and that's why it will pass.

I still predict 218 is the number.

102 When the Obama Sheople wake up from their hangovers, and are standing in long lines with ilegal aliens (who are eligible for this social medicine handout) I can't wait to hear the crying and bitching then.  When they look at their automatic deposits from work, and see how much their State and Fed taxes have gone up, can't wait to hear the crying and bitching.   

103 lan sing, while I agree that's what some priests and bishops are thinking, they've been playing that game for 40 years, and seen some terrible results from it. Some of them have known better, and others are now getting wiser.

That all said, please don't say, "The Catholic Church may want..." like we're one big monolithic mass.  I'm the Church too, and I'm against it.

104 So today we decide if America is still a free country or a socialism that deserves whatever it gets from enemies foriegn or domestic.

As Rush said last week, if this thing passes, "that's when the fun begins." Decisions are reversible.

105 King George thought he was going to crush the Revolutionary Army too, right up until his commanding officer surrendered.

106 Stupak is a weak valueless, amoral/immoral ass.

107 I've been pretty much ignoring this fucking sideshow. Why? Because either it will pass, and thus confirm the fecklessness, cowardace, and moral vacuity of most of our elected officials; or it will fail by the narrowest of margins, which simply means that the thieves couldn't agree on how to split up the booty. Tax-paying citizens protest outside in their thousands; inside the chamber, the Representatives dissmiss them as "tea-baggers" and chortle to themselves how they can make up their own rules. I have never been so depressed about the state of my government in my life, not even during the worst moments of the Iraq War. At least then I had the sense that our concerns were being listened to (if not agreed with). Now? Our nation is being led by three people -- Obama, Pelosi, and Reid -- who seem to feel that the 2008 vote granted them the power to act by imperial edict and bureaucratic fiat. My gloom isn't founded in this particular bill, per se: it is another outrage piled on top of many others, but life will go on. But something has been broken during this process that won't go together again. It's not simply the urge of many democrats towards the institution of tyrannical rule by "soft" despots; it's not simply the inability of our political system to react to the will of the people rather than pressure by victim-groups. No, it's a breaking of a belief I've always had that Americans mostly want the same things, that whatever the means we want pretty much the same ends -- a 'good life', and an ability to control our own destinies and profit from the fruits of our own labors. To make our own way in society as our desires and skills allow. The past couple of years have broken that implicit contract Americans have always lived by. Democrats will insist that it was done in the name of brotherhood and mercy for the poor and sick, but the reality is that it was done for the usual reasons: greed, fear, arrogance, and the will to power. Oh, there will be a thin wallpaper of process and rules over the filthy lies and deal-making, but it will fool no one. The murder was committed in broad daylight, and in front of millions of witnesses. At some point the breaking-strain will be reached. I don't know when -- people are able to delude themselves for a long time that things aren't really as bad as they are. Tyrannies can persist for years, even decades. However strong they look on the surface, though, the rot once begun is very hard to reverse. It eats away at the foundations until the whole structure topples. Americans are divided so fundamentally on basic issues that I don't see how we can continue as we are indefinitely. We are not a "people" united by a common set of beliefs. We are a huge collection of warring factions, interest-groups, and ideological philosophies. Our main point of cohesion in times past was our Constitution, but even that is now broken. A house divided against itself cannot stand, as both Jesus and Abraham Lincoln understood. It will come to bloodletting, I think; there can be no other way. The tyrant's final legacy is always coercion and force, and a free man's response to such a thing is -- it must be -- to resist that force by all means necessary.

108

The National Right to Life Committee just put out a release explaining that an executive order cannot fix the abortion related problems in the health care bill: http://tinyurl.com/ye6dwfq

 

109 99 Exactly.The only existential threat was a Soviet nuclear attack and Reagan put an end(mostly)to that fear.I also never thought the future would be worse instead of better.

110 The only way this is the end is if it fails to pass.


That's not the end, either.  Pieces of it will be back.  They'll tack insurance mandates and taxes and bribes onto military procurements and all kinds of other unrelated stuff, then bash us over the heads with you "you hate soldiers! you hate children!" when we object.

This is a goal-line stand.  There's a 99-yd drive next.

111

Drudge has a developing story quoting Granny Richtus saying "Steny, we got to get to 217.  None of the members want to be the deciding vote."

 

112 Being destroyed from within by our own citizens' greed and ignorance is completely different.

Oh, well if greed and ignorance are your threshold, why the hell are you only getting worried now?  People have been greedy and ignorant forever.

113 A vote against healthcare is a vote for the military industrial and insurance complex!

I love this.  "Fight the insurance companies by forcing every American to purchase their product--and at inflated rates!"

Fail.  Big fail.

114 Next up amnesty for illegals.

115 Oh, well if greed and ignorance are your threshold, why the hell are you only getting worried now?  People have been greedy and ignorant forever.

I don't even understand why you're bitching at us for worrying about this.  What's your point?  What are you trying to accomplish here?

116 Watching Ryan debate that woman this morning reminded me of the axiom of democratic rule. They believe they are nice and we are mean. Therefor the detail we promote are just a way to hide our meanness. Even though their facts are wrong and bad "it will all get worked out because we are nice people."

117

Right this minute, you're seeing the particular brand of Roman Catholicism that provoked all the quiet debates when JFK ran, just saying. The Pope could weigh in on this, but he won't. All those Vatican II social justice liberationists who wormed their way through seminary in the molestation era are now confessors to wavering Congressmen. And they are issuing their absolutions.

Marcy Kaptur has nothing to worry about. She cannot lose her seat. Priests will carry her campaign signs on street corners, if necessary, even if stirrups and specula are discovered mounted on her House office desk. She's a closet nun. This morning, campaign speeches prayers are being uttered for her from lecterns across the diocese.  By November, it will be from the pulpits.

118 When the Obama Sheople wake up from their hangovers, and are standing in long lines with ilegal aliens (who are eligible for this social medicine handout) I can't wait to hear the crying and bitching then. When they look at their automatic deposits from work, and see how much their State and Fed taxes have gone up, can't wait to hear the crying and bitching.
Posted by: Sparky

And also, watch all of them clamoring like mad to get "good government jobs" that have secret tunnels to good doctors and resenting the hell out of all the civil "servants" who suck taxes and watch porn all day but get liver transplants and free acne care.

119 Volt today? What vote?

120 96 Thanks, Barbarian - you said it much more eloquently, and in one word, too!

121 Oh don't forget, "there ain't no rules, we be makin them up as we go along".  Write your local Dem congress/senator and ask them if it's okay for you to "make up the rules as you go along in life"?  My wife and I made up a new rule today to only pay half of our federal taxes next year.  Yea...it's really great!  Just make it up as you go along...it's legal....our LEGISLATIVE (LAW MAKERS) do it....we can too.  What a country!

122 "The National Right to Life Committee just put out a release explaining that an executive order cannot fix the abortion related problems in the health care bill: http://tinyurl.com/ye6dwfq"

Again, old news from yesterday.

National Right to Life has made it known that they will not target those who vote for the health care bill.  They have given Stupak and his friends a  free pass on this issue.

123 I almost feel sorry for these bums.

They are being kept in a bubble that makes them believe that this bill is good for the country and that opposition is only fringe elements.

They don't really know what is in the bill and even if they did most of them are too stupid to understand it "without a team of lawyers explaining it to them"

They are being confronted by their leadership telling them that this is an historic vote and if they vote against it they will go down in history as traitors, evil, and against helping sick people.

They are also being threatened that if they vote against it the machine will destroy their lives and any chance of reelection. they will lose everything and have to go back to being a working stiff. And if they vote for it they will be heralded and supported by the party, all their associates (unions, bureaucrats, cocktail party set,...)and guaranteed a gravy job even if they lose.

So they can side with the bitter-clingers and go back home busted, or they can make history. Not many people would withstand such pressure, and surely the group that goes to DC is not known for integrity, intelligence, character, etc.

124 Thanks for that, Monty.

125

#24

 

Anyone who thinks Stupak is this "dumb" is four times dumber than they think Stupak is. There is no such thing as a pro-life Democrat.

 

Truer words have never been spoken

126

America committed suicide back in 2008.

This is just the rigor mortis kicking in.

127

Nancy Pelosi is like the Chicago Cubs

they and she does not lose.

Posted by: Bob

Yep boob, we all fondly remember that last Cubs World Series championship 102 years ago... Why are you not fetching your shinebox you fucking worm?

128 Make fun of Pelosi all you want.

This isn't the loser GOP leadership.

You will be eating crow when Yes vote number 216 is read.

And I'll be here to accept my accolades.

129

Posted by: Monty at March 21, 2010 11:31 AM (HQzxr)

Monty, that was just incredible.  I would like to post it on Facebook if you will grant me your permission.  Thanks!

130

My prediction for today: Massive pain for all Democrats.

Even if they get the votes they need to pass it...the pain will be crippling.  Bring on the "Motion to Recommit", and every other parlimentary move available.

Then we get to do it again, but that time, in the Senate.

The Des are going to be in a living hell all Spring.  And then they get voted out of office.

In the mean time, I recommend you learn to be your own doctor by taking a Red Cross class.

131 And I'll be here to accept my accolades.


I do not think that word means what you think it does.

132

Yep boob, we all fondly remember that last Cubs World Series championship 102 years ago... Why are you not fetching your shinebox you fucking worm?

Posted by: Countrysquire at March 21, 2010 11:37 AM (aMdQJ)

That 'Bob' is a sockpuppet. 

133 CNN (yeah, I know) saying De[e]ms have the vote: http://tinyurl.com/yfz6ujz

134 131 Make fun of Pelosi all you want.

This isn't the loser GOP leadership.

You will be eating crow when Yes vote number 216 is read.

And I'll be here to accept my accolades.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:37 AM (siar6)

When the vote is over, will you stop diving on Nancy's muff?

135 From Dan Riehl: RT @benpolitico: RT @ryangrim: and now the Stupak group has canceled its presser. Kaptur still a definite yes. Rest of group uncertain.

136 King George thought he was going to crush the Revolutionary Army too, right up until his commanding officer surrendered.
Posted by: ListKeeper

Yup. It's Christmas night. We're cold and starving and outnumbered. Let's go.

137 The Catholic Church may have good reason to want this bill passed.  They do so much charity work, have hospitals, and clinics.  It would be interesting to know how much money this bill would save them.  I don't mean to be critical of the Catholic Church, but they must be looking at the bottom line and thinking, "wouldn't it be great if everybody had to donate towards medical care for the poor."

Posted by: lan sing at March 21, 2010 11:23 AM (BN/2Y)

You're an idiot. This bill will kill Catholic Health care work. Pro-lifers in Congress may cave but the Church doesn't have the option. Witness Mass and DC with gay marriage and adoptions. Catholic hospitals will close before they allow abortions and the federal government will eventually disqualify anyone not offering it from receiving federal funds. The Church will be able to keep some basic clinics open but no hospitals.

138 the Stupak group has canceled its presser

Fingers crossed.

139 bob you are a pathetic human. When something goes my way I go out with my wife and friends for a nice celebration. You? You want to say convincing your own team to vote for your own bill is a victory. Come back on November 3rd and explain to me what a great bill this is.

140 What are you trying to accomplish here?

Don't start being pessimistic now. Nothing happening right now is different from the challenges we faced yesterday. Either you have reason to fear and you've been worrying all along, or you've got the courage to believe we can overcome it. Or maybe both are true at the same time. But to start worrying only now is irrational. We've been fighting since before Hancock signed his name.  If you've been ignorant of that, you needed to wake up, big time.  Better now than never waking up at all.

141 Oh woe, woe, terrible woe. Doom, despair, agony.

This will be as bad as when Bush signed off on unfunded Medicare D. Although, I don't remember feeling so bad back then. Hmmm. I guess I'm just a stupid rightwing idiot fuck pussy. Oh well.

142 I just flipped on the TV and heard the anchor mention the racist incidents/slurs at yesterday's DC rally.
It's a sign of the times that I'm so jaded by the race-baiting worms on the Left constantly making this crap up that I couldn't care less about the story. Last year at this time I'd be all over it, but now every time a Lib cries "racist Republican", I can't help but chuckle to myself.

143

America committed suicide back in 2008.

This is just the rigor mortis kicking in.

What the Dems don't understand is rigor mortis doesn't last that long. 

144 How many will have the guts to follow Obamas lead and vote "Present"??

145 Wheeeee!!1111!11!1!!!. Now I can continue my amazing artistry! With responsibility to none, and health care for all. Mmmm mmm mmm.

146 This isn't the loser GOP leadership.

Not one member of the GOP is voting for this and the only congresscritters crossing over are Dems. But she's the bestest speaker evah,right?

147 Those Jews and Africans in Congress are just too crafty and slick, how can we ever win?

148 Being destroyed from within by our own citizens' greed and ignorance is completely different. Democracies traditionally die by suicide, not by conquest. As soon as citizens realize that they can vote themselves large gifts from the public treasury, it's all over. And I'll be here to accept my accolades. You are aware that on AoSHQ, "accolades" are granted in the form of hitting you in the neck with a cactus. Right? Do you still want it? 'Cause I've got a nicy spiny specimen raht 'chere. Step up and receive your award, shit-bird.

149

Being destroyed from within by our own citizens' greed and ignorance is completely different.

Oh, well if greed and ignorance are your threshold, why the hell are you only getting worried now?  People have been greedy and ignorant forever    

Posted by: The Black Republican at March 21, 2010 11:33 AM (Sz7G2)

 

It's normal for an individual to be greedy or ignorant.  It's another thing entirely when it is the government that is greedy, and the people who are ignorant.  

150 National Right to Life has made it known that they will not target those who vote for the health care bill.  They have given Stupak and his friends a  free pass on this issue.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:36 AM (siar6)

Where did you see that?

151 30 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz says they don't have "a hard 216."

Is that what you kids are calling it these days?

152 Juan Williams, poster child for stupid. 

153 155 Juan used to be a relatively reasonable liberal.Obama has turned him into the more usual kind.

154 Intrade is finally over 90% if there were really any people that believed that ObamaCare was not going to pass they would be in, and heavy in

155 Monty, that was just incredible. I would like to post it on Facebook if you will grant me your permission. Thanks! Take, take. I always post here with an implicit permission to re-post elsewhere if you find it of value. (Or completely rip off and claim as your own, submit as your quarterly final in English Lit 101, or whatever. I'm a giver.)

156 It's another thing entirely when it is the government that is greedy, and the people who are ignorant.

While I agree that the people need to be aware, your premise fails on the first point - we wouldn't have a constitution of limited powers if that hadn't always been the case.

157 Pelosi and the Buffalo Bills.  Once they get to the big game, they're automatic.

158 Juan used to be a relatively reasonable liberal.Obama has turned him into the more usual kind.

Posted by: steevy at March 21, 2010 11:45 AM (1SbnG)

During the primaries you couldn't pay him to say something nice about Obama.  He was a Hillary guy all the way.  Now he's 'all in' on Obama.

159
"Not one member of the GOP is voting for this and the only congresscritters crossing over are Dems. But she's the bestest speaker evah,right?"

She's certainly been more effective with health care reform than the GOP was with social security reform.

Nancy Pelosi won and the GOP lost.  End of story.

160 National Right to Life has made it known that they will not target those who vote for the health care bill.

Do you have a link for that?  The press releases I've seen from state affiliates say that prolife Democrats that vote for the Senate Bill will not be supported by Right to Life in November.

161

If and when the democrats follow Pelosi and Obama over the cliff with this bill all of our insurance will go up drastically. The bill ends pre existing conditions immediately and postpones the subsidies and extra insureds until 2015 that would help offset the costs of pre existing conditions.

There will be carange for the dems in November.

162 Stupak noon presser just cancelled. Deal broken?

163 156 155 Juan used to be a relatively reasonable liberal.Obama has turned him into the more usual kind.

Posted by: steevy at March 21, 2010 11:45 AM (1SbnG)

It's difficult for Juan to concentrate while he's got Obama's dick stuck up his ass.

164 155 Juan Williams, poster child for stupid.

I used to hear him before he went national, he had a daytime talk program. The man is dumb as a bag of shit. but he hit the PC lottery being a black Latino and has ridden that as far as he can.

I enjoy watching Krauthamer and Kristol roll their eyes whenever he talks on the Fox panel.

165

From Riehl: RT @JannieAlexa: 7 Dems on the fence. Liberty needs 4.

RT @ZanP: GOP will hand deliver emails to 7 holdouts! see comment at: http://tinyurl.com/yzwrj46 #teaparty #gop #killthebill #tcot #sgp

166 I do see a bright side to this.The shock of them so completely going against the wishes of the majority may finally energize Americans to get off their asses.The tea partiers seem to have rested on their laurels after Scott Brown.Hell even I,pessimist and cynic that I am allowed myself to believe healthcare was dead.

167 The Cold War revived. We won the first one.

168 Oh, well if greed and ignorance are your threshold, why the hell are you only getting worried now?  People have been greedy and ignorant forever.

Because the tables have tipped.  The libs have agitated and agitated, divided people into grievance groups, directed taxpayer money to those that won't take care of themselves in such numbers that it now reaches nearly 50% of our population.  Get it?  They have successfully breeded generations of people who don't strive for the American dream.  They strive to leech the American dream from others.  When those people are nearly half our population, it would tend to cause worry...dontcha think??  It's called being destroyed from within.  So, yeah, I'm truly scared for my country for the first time in my life. 

169 I enjoy watching Krauthamer and Kristol roll their eyes whenever he talks on the Fox panel.

Posted by: nine coconuts at March 21, 2010 11:49 AM (DHNp4)

My favorite was when they had CiCi whatshername on the Fox panel.  Krauthammer would look at her while she was talking and you could almost hear him think 'CiCi you ignorant slut'.

170

Yesterday, Baracky quoted from Shit Lincoln Never Said, Unexpurgated Edition, Vol. I

...or was his teleprompter fucking with him again?

171 I am just trying to figure out why someone would vote for a Dem in the next election. Their reps are saying we know you don't want this but it's what I think is best. I can't imagine a person running for office saying that. They would not be elected. So they do a little kabuki theater during the election and rule afterwards. The media is talking about the fortitude of Obama and him showing leadership why? Because he is ignoring the will of the populace. When Bush continued in Iraq even though the numbers were bad he was pig-headed and could not admit mistakes. The election in November is a test. Are the American people worthy of it's heritage.

172 Black Republican-- come join us on the libertarian side. Greed is good, ignorance can be educated, and every man for himself is respected. Only envy is rejected. Repubs still have a long way to go.

173 "The press releases I've seen from state affiliates say that prolife Democrats that vote for the Senate Bill will not be supported by Right to Life in November."

You guys have no clue how politics works, do you?

Right to Life "not supporting" a candidate is much, much different than when they actively campaign against you.

I've volunteered for Wisconsin Right to Life and know how that organization does things.  They could have let Stupak and his gang know that they will be specific targets in November if they voted for health care.  They haven't done that.

174 Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:47 AM (siar6)

I can understand getting punch drunk stupid on Saturday night, but sniffing glue on Sunday morning?

175 162
"Not one member of the GOP is voting for this and the only congresscritters crossing over are Dems. But she's the bestest speaker evah,right?"

She's certainly been more effective with health care reform than the GOP was with social security reform.

Nancy Pelosi won and the GOP lost.  End of story.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:47 AM (siar6)

Bob, you're ability to blow Axlerod and post at the same time is quite impressive. I'll give you a B+.

176 Fox is really hard to watch today.

177 What we need in November is Presidential level turnout of our side. If we get that, we could win 70 House seats and 10 senate seats.

178 Juan Williams, poster child for stupid.

I remember when someone (can't remember who) introduced him to the notion that global warmism was a front for government control.  His mind was boggled.

179 The pro-abortion wing of the Democrats have no problem with the EO, because they know in the end, the President is with them. It's apparent to all, especially Stupak's constituents, that this is just a fig leaf. So a fat lot of good it does anybody. They are stalling, because they still don't have the votes.

180 ...to add, that's not even taking into consideration the truly breathtaking spectacle we are witnessing in Washington.  The complete and total disregard to the wishes of the American citizen.  These maniacs are doing whatever they want, "we the people" be damned.  Pretty friggin' scary.

181 The draft of the executive order is at the corner... I bet most of Stupak's people go along with it..

182 If Right to Life doesn't condemn this, it proves that they are a fraud and can kiss any donations from me goodbye.

The Democrats are toast in November. Remember, the Republicans will all run on reversing this travesty. It is up to us to see that they keep their promises after they get the majority. A politician is a politician. We have to make sure that they know that breaking their word given during the campaigns is a political death warrant.

183 This house of cards will start to come down at the very last minute. Politicians have no spine, no morals and no judgment. That means they won’t stick their necks out even a little bit. None of them wants to be the one that “brought down” the presidency, but they’re just dandy being part of a crowd that’s “running from” a failed president.

184 Pelosi and Germany.  They never lose a war.

185 The Nation is divided in every way except physically. That last step is curative and inevitable.

186 Black Republican-- come join us on the libertarian side.

You clearly have a problem with making assumptions.

187 <i>There will be carange for the dems in November.</i><p>Not with 20 million new votes. How do you spell amnesty?

188 "We've been fighting since before Hancock signed his name." - The Black Republican

Sir, I go back to your site periodically for more good stuff but your pen has been pretty quiet lately.

189 The draft of the executive order is at the corner... I bet most of Stupak's people go along with it..
Posted by: yarrrrr

The fact that it doesn't spook the pro-choicers one bit will apparently be lost on Stupak.

190

While I agree that the people need to be aware, your premise fails on the first point - we wouldn't have a constitution of limited powers if that hadn't always been the case.

Posted by: The Black Republican at March 21, 2010 11:46 AM (Sz7G2

Oh, thank you, superior one, for schooling me on my premise.  Perhaps you too, would like to come back later for your "accolades".

191

"They have successfully breeded generations of people who don't strive for the American dream. "

Wasn't the "Me Generation" the first large graduating class?

192 Hell even I,pessimist and cynic that I am allowed myself to believe healthcare was dead. Not me. The Democrats will not have another opportunity like this for another generation at least: supermajorities in both House and Senate, and a far-left Democrat President. That's why they're trying to run the table now; they know full well that they may not ever have another chance like this one to push the liberal wish-list into law. This is what conservatives didn't understand until recently. Many on the left are completely willing to take a drubbing in 2010 as long as the liberal apparatus is set up, because while political fortunes may wax and wane, entitlement programs are forever once enacted. And when the wheel turns in 2012 or 2016, liberals will come back to the fold to find their favorite programs still in place. This is called "the liberal ratchet effect". I suspect that only a huge and systemic social/ecnomic failure would motivate the people to reverse these programs: Medicare, Medicaid, public pensions, and now (apparently) a public health system. But the costs of that kind of collapse are grievous; it's possible that America as a political entity would not survive it.

193 "Drudge has a developing story quoting Granny Richtus saying "Steny, we got to get to 217.  None of the members want to be the deciding vote.""

LOL, you guys think she really said this without it being meant to be heard?

This whole vote is a game.  They're playing up the drama and intrigue when the votes are clearly there.  She has 4-6 votes in her pocket ready to be called upon if needed.

IMO, you are all just so used to the GOP having no clue how to win crucial votes, twist arms, make deals, etc, that it surprises you when the opposition does it so easily.

194 Pelosi is like the Death Star.  Unstoppable.  Invincible.  And the Terminator.  You can't stop her.  She's like the Terminator Death Star.

195 Either you have reason to fear and you've been worrying all along, or you've got the courage to believe we can overcome it. Or maybe both are true at the same time. But to start worrying only now is irrational.

I've been worried since January 2007.  It's only lately I've been feeling doomed--realizing how much of this shit was started before my parents were even born, and realizing how many people I know in meatspace (former coworkers, cousins, school friends) think this is the way America should be. 

My immediate worry is that the civil war/riots* will start while I'm stuck alone in NY (temporarily working here).  I'll feel a little better when I'm back in the Midwest near my family.

* Have we worried about the reaction of the people who think they're going to be getting free drugs now if this thing doesn't pass?

196 IMO, you are all just so used to the GOP having no clue how to win crucial votes, twist arms, make deals, etc, that it surprises you when the opposition does it so easily.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:56 AM (siar6)

Psst, Boob.  You're starting to repeat yourself.  Why not go fellate your father instead?

197 93 This will all go away later today when Jack Bauer suddenly shows up on the floor of the House and saves our country from the Evil. I pity the fools. Don't count on it. We're in Cabo, an if this shit passes Jack says you're on your own.

198 Stupak needs to be reminded that this executive order promise is coming from a fan of infanticide.

199 test

200 Ya know, some of the attitudes here piss me off almost as much as the bill itself does.

THIS IS NOT OVER if the bill passes today.  That is just the beginning of the process.  This bill is going to galvanize the right, and we have many means available to us to fight it.  Those of you who say entitlements never get rolled back are missing the point that this bill is different from social security, etc.  Those were BIPARTISAN measures, and the benefits were felt almost immediately.  This bill is unilateral and the pain will strike way before the so-called benefits.  Man up, you wusses.  The feelings of resignation are exactly what they want.  Instead, arm yourselves (interpret that how you want) for a long battle.

201

Pelosi is like the Death Star. 

And she has a 2 meter wide minge.

202 ^{I enjoy watching Krauthamer and Kristol roll their eyes whenever he talks on the Fox panel.}

Sometimes I think Kristol is making great efforts to not burst out laughing - face clenched in a smile, then the eye roll.  Precious.

203 Facts. That will be the demise of our little experiment with a European style Social Democracy. We are broke! So go ahead and run up the credit cards? It won't keep going on like this. There are laws that can not be broken with out consequences. My friends, get ready.

204 Where's Jane D'oh?  I need to hear more about the island paradise.

205 196 Easily???This shit was supposed to pass in Auguist and you have huge majorities in both houses.Like to see your idea of difficult.

206 Not only is Obama's EO bullshit, it isn't legal. It is beyond his executive powers and Stupak should know that.

207 * Have we worried about the reaction of the people who think they're going to be getting free drugs now if this thing doesn't pass?

What? Getting free drugs if it doesn't pass?

208

The executive order isn't worth the paper it's written on. All spending bills originate in the house and are approved by the senate and signed by the president.

The president can't change spending law by executive order. If Stupak goes along with this it's because he wasn't serious anyway. These are democrats we are talking about here. They lie, cheat and steal as a way of life.

209 Bob,

Shouldn't you be sneaking into Pelosi's backyard and stealing her undies off the clothes-line?

Please go celebrate your internets awesomeness in a more productive way.

Stupid, stoned, and full of shit is no way to go through life, Bob.

210 Republicans like Paul Ryan have done good work by showing up, being open-minded and actually presenting solutions. Anyone buying into the talk of replacing the bill (IF this passes), watch the video of Paul Ryan discussing Medicare with Louise Slaughter. Democrats with unchecked power have no interest in hearing new ideas or suggestions of any kind. For those who want real healthcare reform instead of more of the pay-offs and broken promises we've seen so far, defeating this bill today is the best chance you have of that. Republicans led by Paul Ryan could work on a bipartisan measure with the Democrats after 2010. It might work well enough to save Obama's presidency, like the Contract With America during Clinton's presidency, though I doubt Obama is interested in true free market solutions. But as it stands now, this bill is poison. None of the Democrats trust Pelosi, Reid and Obama enough to commit ritual hari kari for them.

211 Gawd, Carl Cameron looks like he is wetting his pants in anticipation on Fox.

212 I'm going to get a kick out of everyone saying "we'll show them in November" when this thing passes, lol.

The GOP has geniuses like Michael Steele and Mitch McConnell and Pence and Boehner ready to lead the opposition!  They've done such a great job so far!

213 What? Getting free drugs if it doesn't pass?

Er, Radish write bad English.  Try again:  The people who think this bill will give them all sorts of free shit.  If it doesn't pass, they're going to be upset.  And most of them don't live in great neighborhoods to begin with...

214

Posted by: The Black Republican at March 21, 2010 11:46 AM (Sz7G2

 

Sorry, my nerves are just about shot.  We're probably on the same side, no good comes from fratricide.

215 Ugh, I'd love to sit here and live-blog my nervous breakdown, but real life beckons. See you all on the flip side.

216 What to do to take my mind off of all this today?

I know...a little skeet shooting, followed by assembling the AR-15 kit I've had sitting around for a while.

217 215 Why not go celebrate with Vodka and Valium?Trust me it's not a dangerous combo.....

218 Shouldn't you be sneaking into Pelosi's backyard and stealing her undies off the clothes-line?

That's a "solar dryer", and upscale neighborhoods have covenants against them because only white trash who can't afford electricity should have to look at them from their breakfast nook. 

219 "THIS IS NOT OVER if the bill passes today.  That is just the beginning of the process.  This bill is going to galvanize the right, and we have many means available to us to fight it.  Those of you who say entitlements never get rolled back are missing the point that this bill is different from social security, etc.  Those were BIPARTISAN measures, and the benefits were felt almost immediately.  This bill is unilateral and the pain will strike way before the so-called benefits.  Man up, you wusses.  The feelings of resignation are exactly what they want.  Instead, arm yourselves (interpret that how you want) for a long battle."

This is why the GOP loses.

It doesnt' matter if this is bipartisan or not.  It will not be rolled back.  It cannot be rolled back.

220 I know...a little skeet shooting, followed by assembling the AR-15 kit I've had sitting around for a while.

Posted by: Winston Smith at March 21, 2010 12:02 PM (BFqyO)

Did someone say target practice?

221
"My immediate worry is that the civil war/riots* will start"

Don't worry.  That is not going to happen.  The mandatory vaccines and food additives will keep us calmed/comatose. 

222 your pen has been pretty quiet lately

Not just lately.  I write to vent, and I just haven't bothered venting lately.  Ignoring politics is working better for me.  Today, not so much.

223 Monty.. also wanna say thank you for the great post..I copied it and sent it to friends this morning..attributed it to "monty the freedom fighter"

224 This whole vote is a game.  They're playing up the drama and intrigue when the votes are clearly there.

What purpose does that serve? Does making this vote closer and more controversial help her cause? You are a complete douchebag.

225
The far-left democrats (is there any other kind?) are going to gloat about this if they drag it across the finish line - which will really piss people off.

November cannot get here fast enough.


They cannot hide that this is a party-line-vote.  That's the history.

226 @lincolntf

Yup, I love the race baiting.

If it's true, then I am appalled by their stupidity. They are no better than the imbeciles that they hope to degrade (forgive me if I don't really give a crap if they hurt Barney Frank or the other worthless scum congress-critters' feelings). The simple fact is however, that everyone on earth has heard worse things in playgrounds amongst children, on MTV daily, in 3 out of 4 rap songs, and countless other places. That said, if there were people doing this, it's pathetic and inexcusable; but it is not isolated to "tea-baggers" nor otherwise unheard of.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, there's a part of me that is skeptical. With all the iphones, media cameras and other devices around, along with the media's on-going, all-out campaign to paint anyone opposed to Obama/ Pelosi/ Reed/ etc. as a racist, I find the lack of audio or video in this matter surprising.

Assuming that it's all true... was it any worse than Reed's statements? Biden's?

Sigh... I am opposed to paying other people's bills for them, especially when I don't have a choice in the matter. That makes me a racist.

227 BTW, I come from Paul Ryan's state, and the guy is a coward.  He'd rather hide behind his charts and statistics than take on a guy like Feingold, who is very beatable.

228

They have the alleged text of the alleged executive order over at NRO.  Does it mean anything that the EO says it applies to the House Resolution but makes no mention of the Senate version of the bill.  As worthless as an EO would be, does this make it even more worthlesser?

 

229 Gawd, Carl Cameron looks like he is wetting his pants in anticipation on Fox




No lie.  He's one of my top suspects for Depends® wearing, right after Mike Huckabee.

230 "The far-left democrats (is there any other kind?) are going to gloat about this if they drag it across the finish line - which will really piss people off.

November cannot get here fast enough.


They cannot hide that this is a party-line-vote.  That's the history."

Loser talk.

The "history" here is that the bill passed.

231 The GOP has geniuses like Michael Steele and Mitch McConnell and Pence and Boehner ready to lead the opposition!  They've done such a great job so far!

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 12:00 PM (siar6)

Yeah you're right Bob, you guys kicked our asses and held onto Ted Splash Kennedy's Senate seat that you have held since 1952, oh wait a republican won that.

But you did hold onto the governorship of New frigging Jersey, oh I am sorry you lost that too.

Well you did hold onto The Head of the DNC's governorship in Virginia. What? oh, sorry bob you lost Tim Kaine's head of the DNC governorship in a landslide.

How is that hopey changy stuff working out for you.

232 Have we all decided that this thing is going to pass?  Because, I'm not convinced that it's going to. 

233 Well, Mr. Black Republican, you're one of the clearest heads on the web.  I've been lurking for over two years reading your stuff.  And thanks for venting!  Vent on!

234 This Bob guy bores me. He has nothing to say and says it repeatedly, thinking himself a wit.

235 Bob, you're a waste of oxygen.

236 I'd like also to take a moment and thank independents for giving us this group of traitors. Independents the great sages of our modern age.

237
The so-called executive order the fool the Stupak block?

From NRO's The corner:  It's a sham.

"The reality of this or any other text, though is: It is meaningless legally. It has no binding effect. I don't know a single lawyer with a working knowledge of the Constitution, Congress, and the Executive, who says otherwise.

And remember how fast the pro-abortion feminists went wild when they heard Pelosi was talking with Stupak about a legislative fix Friday night? I hear no shrieking this morning. There's a reason for that. They know it's meaningless and has no binding effect.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if, upon reading the above text, legal-abortion supporters do make noise: Because it purports to do more than it actually can. As one reader suggests, maybe they'll just hold their fire until after the vote tonight, when the EO can easily fall to the wayside.

Ed Whelan — who, if we were the Obama administration, would be "Bench Memos" czar — adds: "Totally meaningless because it has no binding force. An utter sham.""

238 BTW, I come from Paul Ryan's state

Let me guess Madison,right?

239 Did someone say target practice?


I must admit that I do picture Bob as an orange disk, moving at 42mph

240 Bob, to answer your question, yes, that dress does make your ass look fat. Hope that helps.

241 I bet Bob's tries to beat off to pics of Pelosi but can't...he can only get it up when looking at Barney Frank.

242 Yup, Bob is pretty weak.  How long have we been begging for a better class of troll around here?

243 Bob:

Reading your posts is like grading my college students' papers.  I know even before starting on them that they're full of shit.

Why don't you go play with your Legos?  You might be able to put together a  bionicle or something, if you work very, very hard.

244

Washington D.C., Mar 20, 2010 / 09:41 pm (CNA).- In a final, urgent plea to prevent the passage of the current form of the Senate health care bill, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) on Saturday evening sent a letter to Congressmen asking them to vote “no.”

“For decades,” the letter says, “the United States Catholic bishops have supported universal health care. The Catholic Church teaches that health care is a basic human right, essential for human life and dignity.”

“Our community of faith,” the bishops continue, “provides health care to millions, purchases health care for tens of thousands and addresses the failings of our health care system in our parishes, emergency rooms and shelters. This is why we as bishops continue to insist that health care reform which truly protects the life, dignity, consciences and health of all is a moral imperative and an urgent national priority.”

Nevertheless, they add, “we are convinced that the Senate legislation now presented to the House of Representatives on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis sadly fails this test and ought to be opposed.”

http://tinyurl.com/yb4dof7

245 Just ignore the trolls.

246

"They have the alleged text of the alleged executive order over at NRO.  Does it mean anything that the EO says it applies to the House Resolution but makes no mention of the Senate version of the bill.  As worthless as an EO would be, does this make it even more worthlesser?"

My God in Heaven.  The most ferociously pro-abortion members are OK with this EO.  Doesn't that tell you anything?  Do any of you even use your common sense? 

It really is no wonder we lose most of the  time.

 

247
If this passes today -
IT WILL BE THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

248 Eh, I'm going for a nice long ride this afternoon. If this passes I have my criteria for primary support. "what will you do to repeal this if elected?" I am also going to start paying cash for as much as possible. Short of claiming horses as dependents on my W-2, I cant deprive the commiecrats of money on my income but I sure as heck don't have to make it easy for them to tax it again when I spend money. Move? Where? If there is a country with less socialism and a right to bear arms, lets hear the name. I think we will have wrest the reins away from commies here and get this country headed on the right course. Paul Ryan and others give me hope we can do this as long as we get out the vote in Nov and 2012.

249 If it happens, it happens -- no sense worrying immensely about it.  Shit happens, you deal with it or let it deal with you (the former is preferrable).  Cm'on folks, chin up; it hasn't passed yet.  Even if it does, the world won't stop turning.

250 239 Independents also gave us Scott Brown and have stalled this evil bill for a year. Being the opposition party is part of our system of checks and balances, but as we have seen from the Democrats' failures, it is no substitute for leadership. We need to shitcan Michael Steele for suggesting we aren't ready, and we need to thank everyone from Sarah Palin to Scott Brown to Paul Ryan for proving that Republicans have very good ideas.

251 Dude, we'll never beat the British.  They rule the seas.  They're the biggest empire in the freakin' world!  They don't lose.

252 You will have a big flashy executive order signed today, followed by a series of little tiny memos issued on Friday evenings for the next two years limiting the scope of that original EO to just about bupkus.

It is meaningless.

253 LOL, you guys think she really said this without it being meant to be heard?

This whole vote is a game.  They're playing up the drama and intrigue when the votes are clearly there.  She has 4-6 votes in her pocket ready to be called upon if needed.

IMO, you are all just so used to the GOP having no clue how to win crucial votes, twist arms, make deals, etc, that it surprises you when the opposition does it so easily.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 11:56 AM (siar6)

Please continue posting the same exact thing over and over and ignore evidence that contradicts your idiotic comments.  I think the piece of crap bill will likely pass, too, but I don't think they have 216 guaranteed votes as of right now based on the public comments we've seen this morning and the report of Pelosi's phone call to Hoyer.  But you ignore that because it contradicts your idiotic pontificating, you douchebag.

254

The pro-abortion gang are quiet.  Which means they are cool with Stupak's group being tricked and lied-to in order to drag this thing across the finish line.

They know the promises are all fake.

255

250
If this passes today -
IT WILL BE THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

And, like many of our other taxes, will be disproportionately levied.  That means that there is not an equal amount of liberty for US citizens.  That ain't right and it MUST end.

256 Anyone interested in investing in a medical tourism business I'll be starting?  It will be cash on the barrelhead for joint replacement, probably to the UAE, in hospitals staffed by American surgeons.

257 I don't want anyone to give up hope quite yet. As a Florida Gator alum I'd like to tell you all a story about a 1996 National Championship. The road was perilous and involved quite a bit of luck. It involved a sick Nebraska team losing a shocker late in the night on the west coast to Arizona State. It involved a UF loss to our arch-rivals, FSU. And then it depended on Texas beating Nebraska on a gutsy 4th and 1 call (thanks Mack Brown) followed by Ohio State beating Arizona State. And finally UF staking a heart into FSU in a rematch.

A lot of pieces had to fall into play.

The only thing you can be sure of with the Democrat party is that they have horrible ideas, they know they do (in the back of their mind), they know they have to rely on corruption, the American people (conservatives, libertarians, Tea party, and independents) are completely united against them, and Democrats at the end of the day, as we've seen this past one year, are reliably bad at what they do. Maybe there's still hope....and if not, then for the first time in American history you will see a populace of committed free-marketeers entirely committed to repealing an entitlement. Conventional wisdom will be wrong on this one.

258 RT @JayCost: Stupak says he has 8. They must be: Berry, Costello, Dahlkemper, Donnelly, Driehaus, Lipinski, Rahall, Stupak

259 The first internecene war I forsee in the coming years is the old against the young. Retired Americans are going to be drawing far more, per capita, from the various entitlement programs than they ever put in. Medicaid will bankrupt the states as inevitably as the sunrise (and the current bill actually makes that problem worse by increasing the state funding for Medicaid). Medicare and Social Security will gobble up ever increasing percentages of the US GDP. The only answer is to reduce the entitlements or somehow manufacture an enormous amount of new wealth. And since the latter option is highly unlikely, that leaves only cuts to benefits and higher taxes. Grammy and Grampy are going to fight like demons to keep their entitlements. Politicians are scared of them because they vote. Companies like them because they tend to have money to spend. But to keep the money-train moving, that means that Junior is going to have to work like an indentured servant for years and years to make sure Grammy and Grampy can keep taking the RV down to Arizona every winter. It means living on beets and boiled eggs so Grammy can get her hip replacement for only a $100 co-pay; it means living in a 2-room apartment with a balky toilet so Grampy can buy his Viagra and still afford to pay for the charter fishing-boat. And since Grammy and Grampy didn't save nearly enough money of their own to last for 25 or 30 years of retirement (given the longer lifespans now common in the West), they'll continue to draw down Social Security for many years longer than the actuaries thought they would. This war is going to be a very ugly one, way worse than the "generation gap" stuff of the 1960's. Basically, younger wokers are going to be asked to support retirees but without any real assurance that they themselves will be supported in their own retirements (because the system will be bankrupt by then).

260 1776 Bob moved to Ontario, and now his descendents have a six-month wait for heart surgery. 

261 230 BTW, I come from Paul Ryan's state in Nancy Pelosi's anus, and the guy isa I am a coward.  He'd rather hide behind his charts and statistics than take I like to suck on a guy like Feingold, who is very beatable yummy.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 12:04 PM (siar6)

FIFY

262 "I think the piece of crap bill will likely pass, too, but I don't think they have 216 guaranteed votes as of right now based on the public comments we've seen this morning and the report of Pelosi's phone call to Hoyer. "

Yeah, she just happened to say it loud enough to be heard!

You guys are classic.  I am going to love being here this evening.

263 Anyone interested in investing in a medical tourism business I'll be starting?  It will be cash on the barrelhead for joint replacement, probably to the UAE, in hospitals staffed by American surgeons.

Posted by: Winston Smith at March 21, 2010 12:12 PM (BFqyO)

Check out Panama.

264 Thanks for the tip, Tami.  I hear they play the music really loud there.

265 252 If it happens, it happens -- no sense worrying immensely about it.  Shit happens, you deal with it or let it deal with you (the former is preferrable).  Cm'on folks, chin up; it hasn't passed yet.  Even if it does, the world won't stop turning.

Posted by: unknown jane at March 21, 2010 12:10 PM (5/yRG)

Wow, what an "inspirational" post.  That's the type of passive, defeatist response that got us in this situation.  If the standard is that we shouldn't be upset as long as the "world doesn't stop turning," then what the hell is the point of caring about anything as nothing we do or say will cause the world to stop turning?

266 Basically, younger wokers are going to be asked to support retirees but without any real assurance that they themselves will be supported in their own retirements (because the system will be bankrupt by then).

And it's what, 5 workers for every retiree?  Grammy and Grampy's kids didn't have enough kids.

267 Sorry, my nerves are just about shot.  We're probably on the same side, no good comes from fratricide.

Apology accepted, as I hope you will accept mine - yes, we're on the same side. I was trying to make a point to Heather, and obviously not doing a very good job of it.

268 Yeah, she just happened to say it loud enough to be heard!

You're right Bob she wants us to think she doesn't have enough votes so that we
will just give up...wait,what?

269 But the costs of that kind of collapse are grievous; it's possible that America as a political entity would not survive it.

Monty I think we are breaking new ground here. I have NEVER in my life seen the average citizen stirred up as they are now. Even during the turbulent 60s they liked to make out that the country was under severe upheaval but it was only a very small minority that was causing the problems then.  All that upheaval was really nothing more than press hype.

Truly the last time we had this level of animosity towards Washington was the months leading into the War Between the States. The difference is this time it is not sectional. It is economic and urban vs rural so it makes things even worse.

All that being said, I don't think that it necessarily leads to bloodshed or a civil war. This IS new ground so the outcome is up in the air. The elections this year are what I think will be the determining factor. This country simply can not stand another two years of communist control of all three branches of government.

If the Republicans fail to take at least one of the houses of congress it will be all over. We will collapse economically. That will happen when the Chinese quit buying our debt (already starting) and Moody's downgrades our paper.

If the Republicans take a house and stop the left drift we still may be able to save it, particularly if they follow up in 2012 with the Senate and the President. Perhaps they can actually turn some of it back.

270 Just ignore the trolls.

I'm with you, Dan, but there sure are a lot of them here today. Big stakes.

271 Monty, I think Paul Ryan has a plan that addresses those issues.  But, of course, it is probably racist and obstructionist and, well, just plain evil.

272 Thanks for the tip, Tami.  I hear they play the music really loud there.

Posted by: Winston Smith at March 21, 2010 12:15 PM (BFqyO)

I'm serious.  They're gearing up for this to pass here.  Also, good place to hide funds.  Or so I've heard.....

273 Okay, that's enough wallowing. I'm gonna go play with the chillens. Take care folks, and keep the faith.

274 This never ceases to amaze me:

Here in Michigan at least, it's a gorgeous Sunday morning (despite ObamaCare, of course).  And yet some sad, lonely individuals see fit to spend their time trolling Ace of Spades.  Trolling is an art, when done correctly.  But dude, it's Sunday morning.  It just makes you look pathetic.

275 You guys are classic.  I am going to love being here sucking on the cocks of Obama, Axelrod and Rahm this evening.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 12:14 PM (siar6)

FIFY again.

276 Yeah, she just happened to say it loud enough to be heard!

You guys are classic.  I am going to love being here this evening.

Posted by: Bob at March 21, 2010 12:14 PM (siar6)

Of course, it's not true because it contradicts what you're saying.  Just ignore the man behind the curtain, right numbnuts?  You're also showing your intellectual dishonesty by taking one small part of my post and only responding to that, especially when I also wrote I thought the bill would pass today.  Did you see I wrote that or was that inconvenient to your idiot retort?  How about other public statements from various Democratic members of Congress that said they're not there with the votes yet?  As I've said, you're a complete douchebag.

277 I was trying to make a point to Heather, and obviously not doing a very good job of it.

I got it now--I think we agree more than we disagree.  

I'm another "nerves shot"--I'm going for a drive and some ice cream, while private vehicle ownership and sugar/dairy are still legal.

278 I think the Bishops' statement is big. 

279 Will there be pudding?

280 Retired Americans are going to be drawing far more, per capita, from the various entitlement programs than they ever put in

Not necessarily true. I am looking at what I put in vs what I am likely to get out and it is much lower than what I put in.

281 Firedog lake is reporting that the Stupak deal with Pelosi the Terrible is off and he has canceled his press conference.

282

So let me get this straight... we're bombing the shit out of some bearded psychopath who lives in a fucking shithole somewhere in outer Afghanistan, while our government is destroying our nation and its future like no enemy that we have ever faced before and right on live television with a big "screw you" finger stuck in our faces. And the Constitution - just an old roll of Bounty toilet paper.

And our President is OK with Iranian mullahs having a nuclear bomb to point at s and our allies, but not with our allies building in their nation's capital or Great Britain, etc. They don't get the maximum ass-kiss treatment like a pile of homicidal maniacs in Cairo.

So who are our most dangerous, truly mortal enemies again?

283 Unfortunately, I think Pelosi/Obama have too much immediate leverage they can apply to get the votes they want. We have leverage as well, but they won't feel it until November

284 I know you're serious.  Believe me, I'm familiar with the Panama scenario.  I even know people who have moved/are in the process of moving there.  I'm just semi joking about the medical tourism thing, but I do have surgeon friends who work there for 6 months at a time, and I'm sure I could persuade some others to become involved.  On the other hand, I could probably get some volunteers for Panama as well.

285 I don't know about you all, but I'm watching Paul Ryan now like a hawk.  He seems totally prepared and offers no malice as he defeats their so called arguments.  We need someone who doesn't flinch.

286 I don't think we ever had a Nancy Pelosi troll.  This is fun.  It's like praising the brilliance of Joe Biden.  This woman is easily, without exaggeration, the single stupidest person ever to hold the office of Speaker.

287 281 I think the Bishops' statement is big.




Have a question...I'm not a Catholic..if the Catholics in Congress vote for this, can they be excommunicated or forbidden to take communion?

288 "This country simply can not stand another two years of communist control of all three branches of government."

Fortunately, it's currently only two out of three.

289 58 Well duh! Pelosi would be pretty incompetent if she didn't win this vote.

The fact that it has been this hard for a party that held the Presidency, a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and an 80 seat lead in the House shows incredible weakness - not strength like you are trying so desperately to project.

For it to pass with 216 to 220 votes is simply pathetic and it shows how toxic this bill is. You can crow about your victory if you wish, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory and we all know it. Including you.

290

it is not too late !!!!!! tihs must lead the news today – obama’s deficit savings LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

UPDATE: Former CBO Director: Obamacare Deficit will be $562 Billion over 10 years http://bit.ly/bO22yh

UPDATE: Former Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Holtz-Eakin, director of the Congressional Budget Office from 2003 to 2005, confirms CentristNet’s claims last night in his NYT column outlining the dodges and gimmicks included by the Democrats to obtain the explicitly false claim of $138 billion in paper deficit “savings” and concluding that Obamacare will actually result in over a half a trillion of increased deficit spending over the next 10 years

291 Mark why would anyone risk their career to kiss up to a has been like Pelosi or hitch their wagon to Obama while his approval rates are free-falling?

Nancy's toast as a leader. She's as popular as herpes, just like this bill. Even large chunks of rank-and-file democrat voters don't like this bill because of the taxes and the possibility of losing their current insurance (85% of people are satisfied with theirs, mind you).  And senior citizen dems never want their medical threatened.

Unless your district is mostly welfare cases in pursuit of more bennies, voting 'no' is going to be more popular with your voters than voting in favor.  Is kissing up to a former leader of a future minority party really going to be that big a win for you when you're cutting your throat?  Lashing yourself to the mast is not a great idea when the ship is on its way down.

292 "Move? Where? If there is a country with less socialism and a right to bear arms, lets hear the name."

I think that would be Russia.

293 284 Firedog lake is reporting that the Stupak deal with Pelosi the Terrible is off and he has canceled his press conference.

Posted by: robtr at March 21, 2010 12:19 PM (fwSHf)

Is this the old 11:00am presser or the later announced 12:00pm presser?  Link?

294 "Steny, we got to get to 217.  None of the members want to be the deciding vote."

I don't believe a fucking thing the Cryptkeeper says, in public or private.

295 I totally stole that from Nickless, who was agreeing with me in another thread but expressing himself more eloquently than I ever could.

296 I, for one, welcome our new Socialist overlords.

297 The later announced 12 pm presser is what I heard.

298 Our Dear Leaders are so so pathetic.

We need more guys like Alexander Hamilton.

He got it.

 He wrote this in a June 4, 1791 letter to the officers he assigned to command the Treasury Department's Revenue Cutters:

While I recommend in the strongest terms to the respective officers, activity, vigilance and firmness, I feel no less solicitude, that their deportment may be marked with prudence, moderation and good temper.  Upon these last qualities, not less that the former, must depend the success, usefulness and consequently continuance of the establishment in which they are included.  They cannot be insensible that there are some prepossessions against it, that the charge with which they are intrusted [sic] is a delicate one, and that it is easy by mismanagement, to produce serious and extensive clamour, disgust and odium.

     They will always keep in mind that their countrymen are freemen, and, as such, are impatient of everything that bears the least mark of a domineering spirit.  They will, therefore, refrain, with the most guarded circumspection, from whatever has the semblance of haughtiness, rudeness, or insult.   If obstacles occur, they will remember that they are under the particular protection of the laws and that they can meet with nothing disagreeable in the execution of their duty which these will not severely reprehend.  This reflection, and a regard to the good of the service, will prevent, at all times a spirit of irritation or resentment.  They will endeavor to overcome difficulties, if any are experienced, by a cool and temperate perseverance in their duty--by address and moderation, rather than by vehemence or violence.  The former style of conduct will recommend them to the particular approbation of the President of the United States, while the reverse of it--even a single instance of outrage or intemperate or improper treatment of any person with whom they have anything to do, in the course of their duty, will meet with his pointed displeasure, and will be attended with correspondent consequences.

Barry and Nancy and Harry do not understand this. Which is why they will fail.

Stay turgid, Morons

299 I don't know about you all, but I'm watching Paul Ryan now like a hawk.

Possibly the best thing to come out of this whole fiasco, whether the bill passes or fails, is that everybody now knows Paul Ryan.  He's absolutely amazing. 

300 The next war is going to be the private-sector workers versus the public-sector. If you aggregate all the various city, county, state, and federal workers, they account for more than 20% of the entire workforce. In some states -- like California -- the percentage is even higher. But here's the thing: those employees don't actually create wealth. They are supported by tax dollars, and thus are a drain on wealth. And almost all of them are making more than their private-sector peers, with pension and health benefits that are often guaranteed by law. Private-sector workers are now living in an environment where they make less money, have to fund their own retirements via 401(k) type programs, labor under an increasingly-onerous tax burden, and face a government that is objectively hostile to a free-market philosophy that would improve their future prospects. The latter group -- getting poorer every year in absolute terms -- is going to be jawboned into paying higher taxes to the former group -- getting richer every year in absolute terms -- as a result of laws passed years and sometimes decades ago by the very people who stand to benefit from them now. California is the bellwether her, followed by Michigan, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. People will either vote with their feet, or will riot in the streets when taxes push the quality of life to an intolerable level. Either way: social unrest and bitter enemies that used to be fellow-citizens.

301 ace are loosers ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

302

268  Uh, I think you misread me, sport.  But let me reiterate:

If the damn thing passes, it passes -- there comes a point at which the only people with control over that are the people voting.  I (and everybody who is not a representative) are not those people, so it is not in my direct control (sadly, because I think I'd vote correctly here, but that's just a fanciful wish).  Now, IF it does pass (which I'm still not certain it will) then you have a few options: one is to be defeatist (a wrong option in my mind); two is to completely lose it (which can be the wrong option, see "defeatist" above); three is to deal with it instead of letting it deal with you (which is not passive, it is proactive).  Figure out a way to break it if it should happen.

I refuse to let this keep me up at nights with worry or cause me to binge drink myself into a stupor or freak out.  IF it passes, then I find some way to do my little part to break it.  That's hardly being passive.

303 Bob - I am not sure how much time in jail I would get for beating the crap out of you ( which I feel like I could and I am a small woman) but I would gladly take the jail time. That should tell you everything you need to know about how far people like you have pushed me and my family. Why don't you go away and play at another site with your buddies.

304 Current whip count: 4,000,000 to 1 in favor. DEMOCRATS WIN 4 EVER

I'm a lifelong Republican.

305 The bishops can ask them not to present themselves for communion. Very few have those kind of, um, nerves. Bishop Caput may be one. They cannot excommunicate them because they aren't heretical but only in a state of mortal sin.

306 Costa Rica, that's the place.  I have friends and a place to stay there.

307

We need more guys like Alexander Hamilton.

New York's greatest Statesman.  Hamilton embodied the American Spirit of Service, Honor and Duty.  His work made our Republic possible.

 

308 Well said jane. I feel the same way. I'm not going to go into a deep depression if it passes. I will just fight harder.

309 55-year old Russian immigrant named Olga Brenner at the rally yesterday said "I thought I ran away from government dictatorship,” she said. “When people have freedom it’s like air, you don’t remember, you don’t think about it. But when it’s not like air you begin to—you feel it … When there is lack of it, of freedom, it’s suffocating,” she said. “I know what it is, and you won’t believe how recognizable it is. This is what I hear all my life, the same speeches, good intentions, it’s demagoguery but top-level propaganda. I’ve heard it all my life. And people live in misery.”

310

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

William J. H. Boetcker, 1916 ( lived from 1873-1962).

311

Costa Rica, that's the place.  I have friends and a place to stay there.

I hope you are not Jewish.  The Arabs and Persians are already there fomenting hate..

312 ssssshhpproing!

313

For the first time in my adult life, i'm afraid for my country.

So, that makes how many wars and terrorist attacks you slept through, exactly?

It's one thing to have foreign enemies. But when we have all too many 5th columnists like "Bob" here at home, well, that *is* disturbing.

 

314

What's up with the anti-Catholicism on this thread? Give that crap a rest, and give the Church a break. She's been against this thing from the beginning, and even now, on a sabbath during Lent, the American bishops are working the phones to defeat this thing.

What are the Mormons doing? The Muslims? The Buddhists? The atheists? The Presbyterians? etc. Just sayin' -- we have one church here sticking out its neck on this in a big public way, on our side no less, and some morons here want to chop it off.

At mass today in my parish you shoulda heard our pastor waxing apoplectic over the thought of this bill's passage. To imply that he may be somehow looking forward to Obamacare is simply a joke. And ignorant.

315 Why I think this is good news about Stupak. The Hill this morning said there were 8 not 6 with him, and they don't have the votes. The meme circulated this week during the campaign of inevitability is that Pellosi has always had the votes and was just taking her time putting together her dodgeballl team. First, all Democrats are vulnerable in November IF this passes. Second, the reasoning behind the rumor that some people would get passes is that Stupak and his group were the most vulnerable, and other Democrats would take the hit for his group if absolutely necessary. Nobody wants to stick their neck out, and the NO's are going to vote early and bolt. That's how I see this working.

316 Bashing Catholics is in vogue, because they never fight back.  That's why that twat at LGF is always attacking them.

317 Hey, #294, you're welcome.  :-)

318 Not necessarily true. I am looking at what I put in vs what I am likely to get out and it is much lower than what I put in. Vic, you are one of the wise ones, then. Statistically, Baby Boomers as a group will retire with less than $60K in the bank. Medicare and Medicaid expenses are going to skyrocket as Boomers age because the bulk of any medical expense in any person's life clusters in the last ten years of life. And Boomers (as a demographic) are used to having everything -- they will demand every test and procedure possible to keep going for as long as possible. And no politician who values his job is going to tell them, "No, Mabel, we're not going to pay for that hip replacement because you're 85 years old and it doesn't make any medical or financial sense." I don't mean to suggest that all Boomers are narcissistic spendthrifts -- but they are a huge demographic, and they more than any other demographic formed the core of the "consumer culture". They tend overwhelmingly liberal in political outlook, which makes the prospect of substantial reform very remote indeed.

319 Oh, sorry, Tattoo, I see the hat tip now.

320

So who are our most dangerous, truly mortal enemies again?

Obama and his Handlers.

He's making Rascists out of us all!

(my meaning: all of us who 'have' are being punished to achieve the ultimate goal of Affirmative Action - Wealth Re-distribution.)

321 If this fails like amnesty, my God I will laugh my ass off in joy.

322 268

Slappy, well put. They're trying to break us at the last minute. They would come here to gloat afterward, if they knew it was a sure shot.

323

I want someone to Puch Pelosi in the face and shatter those fucking clackin' dentures of hers!

My vote - Michele Bachmann

324 Soap box, Ballot box, Jury box, Ammo box.

325

Many Congressmen need to visit their local Pizza Inn, like Ben Nelson did and then had to leave to save his idiot life.

 

326

By the way, why has every vote on this gone down either on Sunday or on Christmas Eve? And, on Paschal and Advent times?

To certain oldschool Catholic point of view, things are shaping up, well, Demonically.

327 322

I'm happy to pay royalties, too. Or a small donation to a political campaign of your choice.

328

The Catholic Church may have good reason to want this bill passed.  They do so much charity work, have hospitals, and clinics.

They will close before they assist in, perform, or employ anyone who has anything to do with abortion or sex changes or in vitro.

The Pope could weigh in on this, but he won't.

If he is weighing in, it is upwards, not downwards. It is up to the bishops not the pope.

 

Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

Ugh, I hadn't seen her before this morning. I think "she" is a man. What an awful awful ugly deep voiced lieing freak.

329 These clowns are simply Catholics of convenience. It's socialism that they worship.

330 I don't want anyone to give up hope quite yet. As a Florida Gator alum I'd like to tell you all a story about a 1996 National Championship. The road was perilous and involved quite a bit of luck. It involved a sick Nebraska team losing a shocker late in the night on the west coast to Arizona State. It involved a UF loss to our arch-rivals, FSU. And then it depended on Texas beating Nebraska on a gutsy 4th and 1 call (thanks Mack Brown) followed by Ohio State beating Arizona State. And finally UF staking a heart into FSU in a rematch.

Mack Brown wasn't at UT until 98.

331 "Nobody wants to stick their neck out, and the NO's are going to vote early and bolt. That's how I see this working."

Wow, actually, that's correct.

If it was going to fail, the no votes would come out immediately when the count starts and they would flee the Capitol immediately.  That's not going to happen, though. 

332 Yeah, where the hell are the mormons and the evangelicals? What about the conservative jews? What are they saying? Zip

333 Posted by: unknown jane at March 21, 2010 12:26 PM (5/yRG)

Fair enough and I can't disagree with that.  Your original post that I responded to came across to me as you having a lax "You win, you lose some" attitude, which was part of the reason we're in this mess today.  The Democrats play for keeps and too often Republicans are too passive with our response.

I don't lose sleep over these issues and I have plenty of things to deal with and worry about in my private life, but I'm not deluding myself to think that changes like the health care bill (if it passes and is signed into law) won't have a negative impact on the country and the type of life all Americans have become accustomed to.  It's not just my health care that will be damage, but also my financial standing, which took a lot of effort and time to establish, as policies like the health care bill will hurt me and every American by harming the macroeconomy.

334 Many Congressmen need to visit their local Pizza Inn, like Ben Nelson did and then had to leave to save his idiot life.

That's why they've held all these votes right before a recess, and why nobody could go home this weekend until the vote. Ben Nelson is a good reason why Democrats would be fools to accept a bribe from Obama.

335

325  Only one thing wrong: I'm not one of the people who would exactly be gloating if this bill passes.  In fact, considering my circumstances, I should be one of the people who goes in for the weeping and passing out in an alcoholic stupor.  This bill will run my family into the ground.

But I refuse to get all wee-wee'd up about it; I refuse to let this crap get me down.

336 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz arguing with Paul Ryan about who represents the Catholic Church. Jesus tapdancing appalacian Christ.

337 Hamilton embodied the American Spirit of Service, Honor and Duty.  His work made our Republic possible.

LOL, Hamilton was one of the very first big government people.  He and Jefferson fought continuously. Hamilton would be at home in the Demonrat Party of today.

338 If it was going to fail, the no votes would come out immediately when the count starts and they would flee the Capitol immediately.  That's not going to happen, though. 

Tell that to Loretta Sanchez.

339

UPDATE: Former CBO Director: Obamacare Deficit will be $562 Billion over 10 years http://bit.ly/bO22yh

This is the sad truth of the Obamacare package that is due to be voted on by the House of Representatives just a few hours from now. Democrats continued to make the explicitly false claim that Obamacare will be a “historic” deficit reduction package on all the Sunday shows, and the establishment media continued to second their false claims and refuse to even mention any of the obvious gimmicks and dodges used to create the false paper deficit savings reported by the CBO last week. Should Obamacare pass, the intentional fraud engaged in by President Obama and Democrats regarding the deficit “savings” issue will be seen as one of the most egregious examples of explicit misrepresentations made by federal officials, and sanctioned by the American media, in the history of this country.

340

The vote that will be 216 will be Patches Kennedy, with much fanfare and touting that his father is smiling down from heaven. 

341

Has Gabe given up on the count thing, or are people just being driven nuts? I started trying to make sense out of all that yesterday, and as best I can make sense of it, including Drew's updates, it comes out to:

203 "Yes" votes + 11 "Maybes" = 214, at worst. 8 of those "Maybes" voted "Yes" last time.

HOWEVER, there's 9 in the Stupak block he's counting "No" (incuding Cao), and some of them may go the other way (especially since I thought I heard that Stupak himself say he only had 6 now).

Is that about right? For the "Maybes" I have Capuano, Giffords, Foster, Kanjorski, Mollohan, Pomeroy, Rahall, Tierney, Baird, Boucher, and Tanner.

So it seems pretty damn close, but -hey - it's not like our LIVES depend on it, or anything.  Oh, wait! Our lives actually MAY depend on it not passing ... never mind!

342 The Magnificent Bastard was on This Week, via remote, with Pouffle on the other side. The moderator (never saw him before) was sidelined almost completely as Rove pummeled Pouffle, directly, with questions and facts. This was not the friendly, folksy FNC talking head - this was a guy stepping on the other guy's throat trying to make him cry (and with a few more minutes he might have). If you're feeling down over what's happening today seek it out. And check out Pouffle's smiling as his eyes show total fear - they are truly fucked and they know it (though that won't stop them from doing their damage today).

343 339 Debbie Wasserman-Schultz arguing with Paul Ryan about who represents the Catholic Church. Jesus tapdancing appalacian Christ.

Posted by: dagny at March 21, 2010 12:42 PM (OfFBH)

Irony. It's what's for dinner.

344

But I refuse to get all wee-wee'd up about it; I refuse to let this crap get me down.

Posted by: unknown jane at March 21, 2010 12:42 PM (5/yRG)

Your concern is appreciated.

345 This being the Pre-Vote thread, I can't wait to see what the Post-Vote thread will be like.

346 Kudos to the Catholic Bishops!

They are actually in the Capitol now lobbying pro-life members to vote NO.

347 Please get this vote over already. That fat Sanchez bitch is wearing me out!

348 Every Dem on Fox just keeps repeating their canned talking points over and over and over.GAAAH!

349 This thing passes today, the media will be free to report all the bad news about it starting tomorrow. But they will probably wait a week for the parade to die down. Watch for the articles that justify rationing to start. It's coming.

350 Statistically, Baby Boomers as a group will retire with less than $60K in the bank.

We are seeing that now only because they are the ones retiring now. I suspect that the next generation will have even less judging by what I have seen.

BTW, I am retired now and not drawing a dime of SS. I am living off dividends and interest for investments made while I was working.

My biggest expense?  Taxes and medical.  

351 My problem with the Catholic position (and believe me, I'm not a Catholic basher normally) is that they're opposed to the abortion language, but not to the socialism of the larger bill.

They are, of course, concerned for the welfare of the poor, but they're effectively willing to let the government take over Christian Charity with the force of a gun. If the government's doing it, it's neither Christian, nor charity.  More than that, the recipients become grateful to the state, not to God, and the state begins to supplant God in their minds as the source of all we need.  Look at Europe.

I think the 'social justice' that the Church espouses is actually antithetical to the Church itself.

352 Dagny, that's awesomely awesome.

Paul Ryan destroyed Rep Debbie Wasserman-Schultz on FOX News Sunday. Ryan brought his own chart to show the massive new debt from this horrible bill. The bill means at least $376 billion in new spending federal spending and will raise taxes and premiums: Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) said during her appearance on “Fox News Sunday” that democrats don’t have a hard 216 votes right now.

353

336 Well, I'm not a Republican (or an anything actually), but at some point, you have to say: ok, well, let's see if you can break me.  I refuse to be broken -- at least, it will take a lot more than this stupid bill to do it.

Take heart, I'm still of the opinion that this bill may be voted down...and then I can't wait to get back on here and see if Bob is around, so I can taste his tears.

Now, that we are all on the right page with each other:  I'm out the door; like Pale Rider, I've got some horses to ride.  Chin up; it's not over by far, and as said above: keep the faith.

354 Every Dem on Fox just keeps repeating their canned talking points over and over and over.GAAAH!

That is all they ever do. Those "fair and balanced" debates make me puke.

I no longer watch the news except at meal times and then only for the 1st 15 min or so.

355 There is precedent in the Catholic church getting into bed with government. I think it was the 15th c.

356 The vote that will be 216 will be Patches Kennedy, with much fanfare and touting that his father is smiling down from heaven looking up from hell.. 

357 These clowns are simply Catholics of convenience. I have many disagreements with Catholic thought on health-care. The major disagreement is the Catholic belief that health-care is a "human right". I don't think that health-care is any more a natural "right" than the "right" to a pedicure or a haircut. Health-care is a service, one that is expensive to provide and does not have unlimited resources available. Catholics (sincerely, for the most part) consider health-care to be bound up in notions of human dignity. I've always disagreed with this. Yes, illness is often undignified and debilitating. But this is true of so many things, and is often the results of poor personal choices. If you choose to be a lifelong smoker, then you also "own" the COPD and emphysema and lung cancer that will ensue. If you eat two Whoppers and a large fries every day, you "own" the obesity and heart-disease that will come after. It is unethical to expect the rest of society to subsidize your bad decisions. (But it is also unethical for society to demonize your choices; if you choose to smoke and accept the consequences of that decision, then hey: smoke away!) This is why socialized medicine is inevitably a much less humane healthcare structure than a market-driven approach. Only you can make the best decisions regarding your own health: your motivations are your own, not that of some bureaucrat you've never met. You will always care more about yourself and your family than the government ever will.

358 As a lapsed Catholic, I'm still amazed how this is going down symbolicly with the Slaughter Rule, bribes and abortion all rolled into the Easter recess.  Nothing lasts forever in politics but this will have electoral ramifications for the Dems well past this November (If I were to guess, 6-10 years).  Add to that, the fact that the country goes thru a Conservative cycle every 30 years (1890's, 1920's, 1950's, 1980's.......) and the upcoming favorable Senate math for Republicans,  this "win" is going to be devastating to the Dems.

I watched the liberal spin this morning that all will be forgotten after November (Howard Fineman, LOL) but I doubt it.  Political good times ahead.  We just have to undo the fiscal nightmare that this bill will impose.

359

Hamilton was one of the very first big government people.  He and Jefferson fought continuously. Hamilton would be at home in the Demonrat Party of today.

You, obviously are as stupid as you are gullible.  Jefferson is/was the embodiement of the 'Fortunate Son'.  He wrote eloquently from the safety of his estate and from France while men like Hamilton did the Yeoman's work in establishing the new Government.

Read your History instead of having it spoon fed to you.

While Jefferson pontificated and ran away from the fight, Hamilton worked diligently to establish the New Government and ran into the fight.

Also note : Hamilton understood that a Public Servant was someone like himself - Honorable and Dutiful.  Jefferson and Madison were opportunists who used their positions to enrich themselves and their friends oin the process.

Hamilton Leveraged their greed against the welfare of the Nation and as such established the Republis through the 3/5 and letting Madison and his cronies profit from the choosing of the permanent Capital.

You, sir, are a moron.

360 343

The vote that will be 216 will be Patches Kennedy, with much fanfare and touting that his father is smiling down from heaven. 

I'm sure Barry and Nan think that having a mentally ill drug addict cast the deciding vote is a nice way to spit in our faces one more time.

361 Ready your breakfast and eat hearty... For tonight, we dine in hell!

362 I refuse to be broken -- at least, it will take a lot more than this stupid bill to do it.

You're already broken, if you think this bill is stupid or won't grant Democrats absolute control over our lives in every regard. Waterloo, baby.

363 FUCK YEAH, LEONIDAS!

364 Oh, and just one more thing before I go: and Tattoo, you will be owing me a big freaking apology for shoving me in the same category as Bob. Once again, you misread me sport; that's ok -- just don't do it again, ok? I'd appreciate it.

365 Posted by: Cowboy at March 21, 2010 12:32 PM (zwrlc)

With all respect to you and the vast majority of Catholics, criticism -- not bashing -- is warranted in this case.

If Pelosi and her gang of thugs prohibited the use of fed money for abortions, the church hierarchy would be supporting this totalitarian piece of shit and ordering their members to beat the bushes to insure passage. They wouldn't give a damn about the dire consequences to the nation. Reading the messages already sent out (and dutifully posted at NRO by KJL) makes this clear.

Moreover, they are giving Catholic members of congress a pass on this. They "urge" defeat (as long as abortion isn't prohibited) but do not offer any serious consequences to senators and representatives who go along with the Obama charade.

Catholicism is uniquely powerful among religions in the USA. That isn't necessarily a bad thing; a moral compass is a necessity for good governance.

But when it is inconsistent -- as in this case, where elected officials get away with what would be excommunicable offenses if committed by regular folks (see Ted Kennedy as a prime example) -- it is damaging.

What most of the "bashers" want -- and I am one -- is to see the Catholic church take a stand, hold to it, and oppose not only abortion but the erosion of liberty this steaming pile of manure will bring.

366 335:  Re conservative Jewish opinion/action--Dagny, have you seen the latest issue of Commentary magazine?  (Sorry, my brain is too tied up in knots to figure out how to link).  It's the leading conservative Jewish publication, and it's writing and editorializing against the bill.

Other than that, I'm not sure what conservative Jews are saying or doing.  But in terms of demographics, there are very few of us.(It's not that the majority of Jews are Reform; it's that Jews taken as a group are such a tiny proportion of the population). So I'm not sure what kind of impact we could have in any case.

367 Monty, don't bash the baby boomers so much.  A very big drain on SS and medicare are payments to people who never put in a dime - people on SSI, wives collecting on deceased husband's SS, children receiving payments from a deceased or disabled parent.

It is a real problem that people want to live forever, and live well.  There is no way we can pay for all the joint replacements, transplants, and other operations for people living into their 90's.  Those procedures are going to have to be denied at some point.  Yes, "death panels."   

368

Little Boomer,

That's what I wanted to type but I was projecting what they will say.

369 You know way back in the mists of time the government ran the nursing homes. They all had to be shut down because they were poorly run and in constant disrepair, and the "care" they gave to the elderly wasn't that good either. The government couldn't keep a sh*tless outhouse clean but their damn dream of being more like "noble Europe" wont wait for sanity.

370 Monty, no one here writes more insightful, thought-provoking posts than you.  Great stuff.  Thank you, sir.

371 @ 361 Monty

In other words, be responsible for yourself. I'm hip.

372 With all this talk about what us Catholics "should" be doing for everyone else, where are all the other denominations? Like the millions of people who pack those "mega- Churches" down South and in the Midwest?  If all those congregations had shown up in DC to protest, or better yet not elected so many Liberals to begin with, then we wouldn't be up against it right now.

373 335 Oh, and if you mean the institutional Jewish hierarchy, there is none.  There are organizations but none speaks for any of the other ones.

374 The Buttfucker-in-Chief's b-ball pick, the Kansas Jayhawks, lost. These things run in threes, so maybe it is a harbinger of losing this vote followed by a brain tumor.

375 So is anyone here besides me worried about riots regardless of which way this vote goes?

376 So, is Loretta Sanchez a no or a yes vote?  I thought she was a firm no, but now I'm confused.

377 As a lapsed Catholic, I'm still amazed how this is going down symbolically with the Slaughter Rule, bribes and abortion all rolled into the Easter recess.

I'm a Christian, and I believe they have incurred God's wrath and this bill will go down in flames. It is no coincidence that Obama has mocked Jesus by first bringing up Matthew 25 during the Saddlewell debate. Then his record with BAIPA. The Mexico City policy overturned. The Christmas  Eve Senate vote was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for God. Abortion, more than any other issue, is driving this debate. That is not a coincidence, if you believe God, not Planned Parenthood, has the plan. Arrogance and pride will bring the Democrats down today.

378 This thing passes today, the media will be free to report all the bad news about it starting tomorrow.

No kidding.  They will all do stories on the IRS, medicare cuts, and the true costs.

379

From The Corner:

Sent: Sun Mar 21 10:24:50 2010
Subject: USCCB statement on EO

To: Congressional Aides

We've consulted with legal experts on the specific idea of resolving the abortion funding problems in the Senate bill through executive order.  We know members have been looking into this in good faith, in the hope of limiting the damage done by abortion provisions in the bill.  We believe, however, that it would not be fair to withhold what our conclusion was, as it may help  members in assessing the options before them: 

"One proposal to address the serious problem in the Senate health care bill on abortion funding, specifically the direct appropriating of new funds that bypass the Hyde amendment, is to have the President issue an executive order against using these funds for abortion.  Unfortunately, this proposal does not begin to address the problem, which arises from decades of federal appellate rulings that apply the principles of Roe v. Wade to federal health legislation.  According to these rulings, such health legislation creates a statutory requirement for abortion funding, unless Congress clearly forbids such funding.  That is why the Hyde amendment was needed in 1976, to stop Medicaid from funding 300,000 abortions a year.  The statutory mandate construed by the courts would override any executive order or regulation.  This is the unamimous view of our legal advisors and of the experts we have consulted on abortion jurisprudence.  Only a change in the law enacted by Congress, not an executive order, can begin to address this very serious problem in the legislation."

Richard Doerflinger
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops

380 I picked the right time to jet off to Florida.  The weather here is gorgeous!

381 unknown jane, you're nowhere near as bad as bob. Enjoy your afternoon.

382 Hubby and I are feeling the need to express our Constitutional rights today, so we're taking our Mini-14 and M-15 to the target range for a little exercise.

383 Ok - I think it's time for something sweet to break the tension in this thread.

http://tinyurl.com/yjc2gvq

Stay turgid, Morons.

384 God save the United States.................

game over...Anti-abortion leader Rep. Bart Stupak to vote for health care bill, increasing chances for passage - NBC

385

I have stated from the beginning that I do not believe this will pass.  I still believe that.

If it does, this will not go away after Nov.  As people begin feeling the tax bites, premium increases, and static if not worsening unemployment, their anger will increasing grow against the Dims.  2010 may be hard on the Dims.  2012 will be worse.

386

Monty & Tattoo -- Catholicism does not equate to socialism at all. This is off topic, so I'll be brief and simply lay the claim that since Pope Leo's Rerum Novarum back in the l890's (the foundation of today's Catholic social teaching), socialism has had no greater foe than the Catholic Church. Moscow may not have shot JFK, but they did shoot John Paul. Sure, liberal theology and liberation theology made their runs (and these were gramscian efforts by the leftists), but have been largely thwarted. The last two popes have been particularly influential in this regard.

These two principles, that rights derive from God, not Man and that subsidiarity is the proper approach for meeting social needs, put Catholicism staunchly at odds with the modern statist in all forms: socialist, communist, nazi, transnational asshat.

387 mmm mmm mmm, target practice

388

Afternoon all!

389 The prayer seals the deal, here we go /cry

390
game over...Anti-abortion leader Rep. Bart Stupak to vote for health care bill, increasing chances for passage - NBC

He had a choice between socialized medicine and his soul. 

391 If this bill becomes law against the obvious will of the majority of the people many will take it as proof that peaceful protest is ineffective.

392 Lacey!

393 Monty, don't bash the baby boomers so much. It's not bashing to speak the truth. I'm not making a value judgement about every single person born between 1945 and 1960 -- I'm simply saying that demographics at this level are obvious and inevitable. The only possible way to solve the coming medicare/medicaid/SS disaster is for old folks to accept benefit cuts...which they (as a group) will never, ever do. It's a problem of basic fairness, and goes back nearly sixty or seventy years to promises made by FDR and other politicians since: how much societal support do you deserve versus how much do you need? How much of that expense should be born by generations who come later, and who will have to accept a considerable reduction in quality-of-life to honor those promises made by politicians all those years ago? Civilization should not be a lottery, where you can get an award simply for successfully growing old. It should not penalize the young to benefit the old because it is the young who keep civilization on a paying basis. We owe our older folks dignity and respect, and I've always felt that an essential component of dignity and respect is to treat people like adults. To maintain this entitlement fiction for older folks is to treat them like children; that we will continue to lie to them because a lie is easier than the truth.

394

Stupak. . .   [Daniel Foster]

. . .is a yes, according to MSNBC.

from NRO

395

This isn't about Health Care, dammit!

This is about power and control of the "free" citizens of the USA.

Forget about your money.  Forget about the positive or negative impact this will have on the economy or your future health care.  Those are the effects of the bill.  The cause is an unconstitutional grab for our freedom, through this law and others already passed.

Do tell, would any of you be "for" a fiscally responsible bill that would lower the deficit and covers all Americans, if it explicitly stated that you were to lose your freedom and rights as enumerated in the Constitution?

Because THAT is what this bill does. 

It matters not if you stand to lose or gain financially from this bill, if you value your birth-rights as free men.

_{and if you value your money more than your freedom, you'll eventually end up with neither}

396

If it does, this will not go away after Nov.  As people begin feeling the tax bites, premium increases, and static if not worsening unemployment, their anger will increasing grow against the Dims.  2010 may be hard on the Dims.  2012 will be worse.

Posted by: MDr VB1.0 CS1st at March 21, 2010 01:04 PM (ucq49)

--I agree.  The fact that the "bennies" don't even kick in until after two election cycles will make this dog's breakfast (relatively) easy to repeal politically.

As Steyn and others have noted, this is the type of entitlement encrustation that has not been rolled back in Europe, and the Dems are betting that the Rs have no spine to roll it back --but its very makeup weakens it on that score.

397 I can't decide if I want to watch this debacle live or not.
Better to just work around the yard, listen to college hoops on the radio, have a couple cold ones, etc. or sit here and go quietly insane with rage at the destruction of our country?

398 Go, Sycacuse, go!

399 387 Ok - I think it's time for something sweet to break the tension in this thread.

http://tinyurl.com/yjc2gvq

Stay turgid, Morons.

Posted by: Snake Plizzken at March 21, 2010 01:03 PM (LcUPv)

I would like to ask her to hit me with her best shot!

400 They've started the show early, it's on now.

401

Posted by: Monty at March 21, 2010 11:31 AM (HQzxr)

--Amen!Nice to read you again, Monty.

402 404 They've started the show early, it's on now.

Posted by: Peaches at March 21, 2010 01:09 PM (9Wv2j)

Someone needs to live blog it for those of us that don't want to watch it.

 

403 Stupak now a "yes" on the health-care bill, BTW. I saw this coming from a mile off. Put not your hopes in Blue Dogs or "pro-life" Democrats, ye faithful, for ye shall inevitably be betrayed. So it is written, so it shall ever be.

404

402 Go, Sycacuse, go!

Go Orunj!

405 407 Stupak now a "yes" on the health-care bill, BTW. I saw this coming from a mile off.

Put not your hopes in Blue Dogs or "pro-life" Democrats, ye faithful, for ye shall inevitably be betrayed. So it is written, so it shall ever be.

Posted by: Monty at March 21, 2010 01:11 PM (HQzxr)

And what a shock and coincidence that it happens at the very last minute.  These people are absolutely the lowest fucking scum of the earth!

406 You, obviously are as stupid as you are gullible.

FU you ignorant shit. Go get some history from a real source instead of watching the history channel and reading comic books.

You truly are an uneducated dumb ass.

407

Cowboy, you're preaching to the choir here. Tell it to Bart (YES) Stupak.

Your Church has done a lot of cleaning up lately, but there are still rats in the basement. Lots of them. Please feel free to point out to me every diocese that openly opposes traditional Catholic Dems when they run for re-election after voting for this bill. I don't believe any of them will, because they do, after all, and in spite of the actual teaching of the Church, endorse socialism. 

408 for all the bombast here about the end of the USA most of you morons can't even get it together to go to a tea party event.

409 Someone needs to live blog it for those of us that don't want to watch it.

There's a new thread up for that.  And, just btw, I do not believe that Stupak's last minute cave necessarily means that it's over.

410 Watching them walk into the chamber is one of the grimmest things I've ever seen.

I intend to hold out hope for a miracle until the last vote is recorded and the last voice is heard, but this may very well be the sour end of the greatest experiment ever conceived or executed by mankind.

411 From Riehl: RT @ARCCABlog: RT @MPOTheHill: not clear whr Stupak report is coming from. At ths point, Pelosi & top Dems wnt confirm (via @philipaklein)

412 So, Stupak isn't really a committed pro-lifer.  He was just looking for political cover so he could vote for the bill.  What a piece of crap he is.  He garnered all that attention from the media for his supposed "principled" views when he was just holding out so that he would eventually get political cover with a meaningless Executive Order.  He is a perfect example of what's wrong with our politicians in this country.

413 maybe MSNBC lied. Would not shock me.

414 I'm moving over to the flaming skull thread....

415 Dear Congressman Stupak,

You cannot only be pro-life when it is convenient for you.  I'm certain that you will pay sorely for this move at home -- and not just at home in Michigan but at home in Heaven.  I hope your bribe was worth eternal damnation.

416

I understand what you mean but technically they are excommunicated. Excommunication is "as prohibition from receiving the sacraments".

Those people including Teddy Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi are prohibited from receiving the sacraments because they are in a state of mortal sin. Every catholic is prohibited from taking the sacraments in that state. One must be in a state of grace to partake of the sacraments.

The problem arises when a person presents themselves for a sacrament. The administer of the sacrament does not know at that moment if the person presenting themselves has made a confession, has a purpose of amendment and has performed a penance.

I am an extraordinary minister---I administer communion---I could not administer it to a local politician who has an 100% Naral rating. I have told my pries that if he ever presents himself to me, I will step aside. It would be up to the priest to know what to do in that case.

The person receiving the sacrament is the one who is responsible for determining their state of grace or mortal sin. Receiving communion in as state of mortal sin is a grave sacriledge and is often compared to a "rape of Christ."

A few bishops will insist that politicians not receive communion in their dioceses but often they will find a place to take it anyway. That action only puts their soul in greater peril.

Remember that the sacraments are not earthly signs but signs of grace or God's life in us. The purpose of the sacraments are to strengthen us so that we can do as God wishes and be with him forever in heaven. They are not a sign of the Church's approval or disapproval.

In effect, you can "excommunicate" people all day long but Churches do not have a list of those in mortal sin that they check over before communion. It is up to the person who knows they are in a state of mortal sin to not wish to incur a greater sacriledge.

Nancy Pelosi, Jim Moran, John F'in Kerry, et al are on the fast track to hell. Their bishops should be making them aware of that and may be for all we know.

 

417 265 "I think the piece of crap bill will likely pass, too, but I don't think they have 216 guaranteed votes as of right now based on the public comments we've seen this morning and the report of Pelosi's phone call to Hoyer. "

Yeah, she just happened to say it loud enough to be heard!

You guys are classic.  I am going to love being here this evening."

You may be and probably are right about this bill passing. But, please explain why she would do this. It makes no sense at all. It doesn't make her, the President, the Dems or this bill look good at all. On the contrary, it makes it look like one big clusterfuck. You can say (lie) all you want about this (and all these other ridiculous machinations) being "part of the grand sinister plan", but why would they do it? It makes them appear so inept and weak.

418

Monty, I agree with you on the demographics. Folks might want to check out the excellent film, Demographic Winter (google it).

What a great idea it was to finance grandiose entitlement regimes as giant ponzi schemes, then adopt birth control and abortion as a broad practice. This guarantees the next generations will be too small to keep wheels rolling. And, they'll be mad as hell when they come to realize how much we've "borrowed" against them.

But it gets better. Prosperity and scientific advancement are both imperiled Why should you think otherwise when you realize that increasingly, as we spend more and more money servicing the old, we as a nation are investing in our past, not our future? It takes a lot of resources to build a country, to keep it growing, and we're going to be increasingly misallocating those dollars.

 

419 Excommunication is "as prohibition from receiving the sacraments". Actually, it means "explusion from the community". (Same root word in Latin.) Communion in both Catholic and Protestant churches is a reaffirmation of the covenant between Christians and God through Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that the bread and wine actually become the flesh and blood of Jesus, while Protestants treat it more symbolically, but ultimately a denial of communion is simply a formalism of an expulsion from the church. A "church", for those who aren't Christians, is a group of people, not a building. To be excommunicated is to be expelled from the group (and ostensibly from the family of Christ). It doesn't stop you from entering the building or indulging in the rituals (though it is a grave sin to do so). Excommunication is only effective insofar as the excommunicated person is sufficiently abashed to repend and redeem himself/herself. Creatures like Pelosi obviously are not troubled by such qualms.

420

Essentially, this process just demonstrates what we conservatives have been saying for years.

That a vote for any Democrat is a vote for socialists like Pelosi.

Did anyone not think this was a done deal? That the dem "party animals" wouldn't be true to form? That their public posturing wasn't just a show put on for their stupid constituents?

Well, if you did think any of the above was true, and you are at all persuadable by the facts, then the dems dropping the mask and voting for the Senate HCR bill without any cover whatsoever should convince you otherwise.

They are all, at heart, socialists.

421 If you think the Catholic church would not overwhelmingly support every other demonic piece of legislation in this bill sans the abortion funding,  you are all seriously kidding yourselves.

422 Well is it too soon to point out how absolutely lame the "revenge in November" payback is or the, God help us "conservatives taking control..............WITHOUT............rolling this anti American bill back to the stone age along with the crooks responsible. Do we really want conservatism redefined as the politicianss who run a soon to be universal healthcare program with the new team at the top of the (socialist)totem pole. I know there is going to be years of litigation involved in every aspect of this garbage bill, it's not good enough. In the morning we will wake up, pat ourselves on the back with our staunch conservative views.We will glance over at the kids and hopefully realize that our conservative values mean diddly squat because that kid your looking at will be living in a socialist world.Enjoy the last day of the America you grew up in, in the morning it will officially change.Of course it won't be a club you over the head change but it is a huge leap from what already has been massive, wholesale spending and take overs of privately held industries. The next year with these stooges in charge will be our version of the interesting times, I'm sure.

423 But, please explain why she would do this. It makes no sense at all. It doesn't make her, the President, the Dems or this bill look good at all. On the contrary, it makes it look like one big clusterfuck. You can say (lie) all you want about this (and all these other ridiculous machinations) being "part of the grand sinister plan", but why would they do it? It makes them appear so inept and weak.

Posted by: Macaroon at March 21, 2010 01:24 PM (F6+/O)

I have yet to hear a satisfactory explanation of this, either. Or why any one of the Democrats would trust them to keep their word, if they were open to a bribe, or to commit political suicide "for the good of the party."

The most likely explanation is that Obama and a good chunk of Democrats are beholden to the unions and are doing what they are told. This is a power grab the likes of which this nation has never seen. For all that Obama says his presidency depends on today's outcome, that's an absurd notion. He has staked his presidency to achieving the progressive Holy Grail, but this bill is anything but that. It is just a go-ahead to keep looting the Treasury and selling our hard-won freedoms to their ever-growing list of creditors. It has to be stopped today, and then Obama can move onto something novel like actually upholding his constitutional oath of office.

424 I'm thinking that Paul Ryan is the hottest guy I've seen in a long time. Then again, maybe I've been watching CSPAN too long. My heart is pounding and I'm all sweaty.

Oh, wait, that's probably just the abject terror.  I think I need a beer.

425 I don't want Obama to focus on anything else or he'll ruin that too. The man is a human wrecking ball.

I'm sick of hoping Democrats -- or liberal Republicans like Grahamnesty -- will do anything good for the country. Our best hope is to drag our heels until the election, vote them out in November and then try to reverse the damage.

The health care boondoggle is going to help destroy the country if we can't reverse it -- and I do mean help. It isn't the only factor by a long shot. Between Medicare, Social Security, the horrendous debt our leaders have run up in the first year of Obama's presidency, (which is continuing as we speak) and health care, the economy is going to collapse eventually -- and maybe a lot sooner than any of us realize.

Obama wants to destroy America. Pelosi and Reid are helping him, and their suicidal followers are headed off the cliff with them, but the damage they have done will remain unless we can do something about it. If we can't, get ready for disaster. It's where we're headed, minus a miracle.

426 Ahh, just admit it, we're screwed.

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