1 Sometimes reading about how $%^#^'d up this administration is makes me want to cry so early in the morning.  Getting up, feeding the kids, dog, getting ready for work, feeling pretty good, and then I go on the internet and feel very deflated.  If Harry really gets the Dream Act passed I think people are going to get out their pitchforks :/

2 Oh, why am I up this early reading this Ace persons blog? Heresy?

3  If Harry really gets the Dream Act passed I think people are going to get out their pitchforks :/

Posted by: Plymouuthmom at November 18, 2010 06:55 AM (O/5X6)

I wish I could share your optimism.  I fear it would be just one more case where the real Americans simply groan and roll over, feeling helpless.  I've long held the belief that the Right should start organizing outside the Rep party - forming street armies like those that came to be in the 1930's.  Local militias of real patriots.  Our lack of a means of organized resistance makes us easy meat for the little tyrants.

4 If Harry really gets the Dream Act passed I think people are going to get out their pitchforks :/

People might object to passing it in the lame duck, but generally polling shows majority support for the DREAM Act. See, for example, this Rasmussen poll.

5 Posted by: Reactionary at November 18, 2010 07:15 AM (xUM1Q)

I agree completely. Let's violate the basic tenets of our Constitution, and the ideas behind the founding of our country.

That'll show 'em!

6 The breasts of a college girl from Amarillo posed a security threat May 29, 2008 requiring a strip down and public exposure conducted by TSA. Allison Sands, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office, said the office does not comment on pending litigation.

The Amarillo Globe-News printed the story 10/10/10. It took 2.5 years from the incident to reach national headlines today via Paul Joseph Watson reposting the story to reach Drudge.

How many decades before her lawsuit v. TSA will reach court? If the TSA were disbanded/replaced, what would happen with all the law suits being filed against them?

7 "Please have your genitalia out and ready to be fondled when you approach the security checkpoint."

8 A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him.



Someone's feeling a bit put upon this fine morning.

9 "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him.

Wow. Straight out of the Middle Ages. Which heretics should we be killing? I need some direction here.

10 generally polling shows majority support for the DREAM Act

Hell, polls reflect what the pollsters determine to project via phrasing.

This act has been propagandized via "nice" words strained to cover fraud.

Yesterday, Fred Thompson shredded the DREAM Act. He argues on the basis of government policy. The dream act will only encourage FUTURE illegal aliens to birth babies in the USA, providing them with enhanced incentive to do so.

So attack the act on the grounds of its policy that will instigate MORE CRIME, MORE TAXATION, MORE NATIONAL DEBT. It's making another "special" class this time of literal non-citizens to benefit at the expense of the taxation burdens on the US citizenry. It's a mockery of the legal immigration process.

/The Dream Act may as well be exporting these illegal aliens educated, fed, medically treated, clothed and housed in America on tax funds back to their country of origin to "nation build" their own utopia there. "Go WestHome, young man."

11 Gabe; Continuing the conversation from last night:

You want to pretend that these aren't social conservatives? Wait, you are pretending that, Vic for reasons I assume are genuine, since you're an upstanding guy.

No that isn't what I said. I said I dislike the term and that "social" really has nothing to do with being an actual conservative. I have always maintained that that term was coined by the MFM and they consider ONLY religious "social conservatives" to be the ONLY conservatives. They place all conservatives in this boat in an attempt to paint conservatives as a group who wished to control the "private lives" of the citizenry.

I don't think we should concede the terms to the MFM and we need to start speaking up for ourselves. While most of the people who are labled as "social cons" are in fact real conservatives, it is not an all inclusive subset. There are a whole set of people like Huckabee who are anti-abortion, anti-gay, and all sorts of "anti" social type issue things who are big government liberals in every aspect of their philosophy. In short, they are NOT conservatives.

Also, as I said in that same post, it is not about the "social" thing anyway. This is a continuing war between the true conservative DeMint wing and the RINO elite wing of the Party's bosses for control of the Party.

Look for this war to continue. 

12 9 "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him.

Wow. Straight out of the Middle Ages. Which heretics should we be killing? I need some direction here.


Leave the Middle Ages out of this.  Totalitarians of the 20/c killed more political heretics on any given day than the Church did in a thousand years.

And, anyway, the post is about Gabe feeling sorry for himself.

13 I don't have a big problem, in principle, with the DREAM Act.  My problem with it is it leads to more and more.  and eventually to amnesty.  So, we must stop it any way we can.

I just don't see how Reid is gonna get 60 votes anyway...

14
From Drudge:
"I'm wildly excited that I can walk through a machine instead of getting my dose of love pats," Sen. McCaskill said.

May I suggest this lovely walk-through model wood chipper?

15 "Please have your genitalia out and ready to be fondled when you approach the security checkpoint." Posted by: TSA Announcement

TSA brainstormed the next phased friendly skies mandate. Those who want to fly must disrobe entirely and ALL dress in hospital patient attire provided at the airport security dressing room, open gown with tissue booties.

16 Sen. McCaskill, May I suggest this lovely walk-through model wood chipper? -- Posted by: ya2daup

bwahaha...

17 Since this TSA thing continues to be hot, a repost from the ONT.

On the TSA union crap I have done some preliminary research. The press has extensive reports in 2001 about Hillary and her move to have the TSA unionized. The Republicans supposedly fought it tooth and nail and said it would never happen and the law was passed under that assumption.

But alas, what they said vs what they voted into law turned out to be two different things and guess what? We never heard about it from the press, imagine that.

What went into law was that it was left up to the Undersecretary of the TSA whether or not to allow "collective bargaining" by employees. The act itself does NOT prohibit the employees from joining a union. It does specifically prevent them from going on strike.

The federal employee union has been working to get them unionized since the law was passed in 2001. They had little luck with the Republicans in power. In 2006 the federal employee union tried to get the union established via an end run through the UN. The UN issued a ruling that they had the "right". The Bush administration said no dice and and ignored the UN.

We now have the communists in power and they are going to see this thing through. From what I can see this is supposed to be a two step process. The "right" to collective bargain doesn't mean they are unionized, YET. However, given the way things are moving, unless
congress modifies the act to what the "said" in 2001 it will go thorough.

However, if the Republicans have any BALLS when a Republican takes over in 2012 even if they have fully unionized the same undersecretary position can turn around and ban the union under the current law.

18 the student body president of fresno state is an illegal alien....lol......

19
This is such a warm and fuzzy day.  GM's IPO will be released, and we members of the great unwashed will be repaid in full,  partially paid, not paid but rammed up the ass with a 1951 Chevrolet hood ornament.

20 Fuck it depressing to watch the news. John Fing Kerry is whining about cap and trade and investing. Fuck you its not investing, it's spending my money on shit that you want. 

Off to Fallout New Vegas.

21 I agree completely. Let's violate the basic tenets of our Constitution, and the ideas behind the founding of our country.

That'll show 'em!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at November 18, 2010 07:27 AM (LH6ir)

And that violates "the basic tenets of our Constitution" how?  Do you think that the Left is going to hesitate to use violence against us once they think they can get away with it?  Already the Libs are well known law breakers.  They encourage lawlessness on the part of their own goons, and the law enforcement authorities don't do dick about it, in part because so many of them are in on it.  Election fraud gets worse every damn year.  Amnesty for illegals is nothing more than another massive act of voter fraud - it just happens to bear the trappings of legality.  There is a systematic effort on their part to disenfranchise us, and no one in authority is taking any real action to thwart it.  We're on our own.

22 People might object to passing it in the lame duck, but generally polling shows majority support for the DREAM Act. See, for example, this Rasmussen poll.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 18, 2010 07:22 AM (XVaFd)

No one asked me. There is already a process in place to become a US citizen- 6 years military service. The gift of going to college for two years does not seem like much of a test for a desire to become a citizen. Since many fools like Mexico so much, howsabout we adopt their law for illegal aliens ?

23 "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him."

---- lol  well thats nice ta see in the mornin'

24 People might object to passing it in the lame duck, but generally polling shows majority support for the DREAM Act. See, for example, this Rasmussen poll.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at November 18, 2010 07:22 AM (XVaFd)

Problem with that poll is that it doesn't point out that people in their 30's and 40's will be able to become citizens under this program.

It just says you have to have 2 years of college, not how old you are. It's not just for the children.

25 Since many fools like Mexico so much, howsabout we adopt their law for illegal aliens ?

Posted by: Museisluse© at November 18, 2010 08:17 AM (DTfXb)

Amen.  Any degree of popularity for Amnesty is based on a fraudulent presentation of the plan.  If people were presented with the real facts about the bill you can bet that the reaction against it would be strong.  It should be easy enough to defeat - after all, this country does not need any more low-skill labor.  We can't come close to employing the vast, and growing, supply of low skill labor we already have.  Every illegal, and almost every immigrant of whatever type, takes either a job, or tax money, from citizens.  They are a drain.  Even the educated Indian engineers/doctors/etc are no longer likely to want to stay - they want to get experience and then go back to India to live like princes.  And I don't blame them.   Talk about a gravy train - their government pays for their schooling, then they come here for US companies to pay to train them, then they go back home to make more money by selling the expertise they developed on someone else's dime.

26
Did anyone see the Freedom Watch show last evening on Fox Business with Judge Napolitano and the San Francisco District of Attorney?

The DA stated there is no provision in the law that allows the Federal Government to fondle or grope any citizen, and if a complaint is filed, the DA's office will seek an arrest warrant.  He also stated the TSA at SFO have been notified about the seriousness of this matter.

Liberal San Francisco saving our bacon from ogling perverts and closet masturbaters?  

27 "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him."

Ok, morons.

THE  LIST OF HERETICS:

Who's first in Congress, Ron Paul or Lindsey Graham?
By emotive decibel, Alex Jones or Glenn Beck?
GOP ticket, Palin or Romney?

28 Interesting.

'Space-Time Cloak' to Conceal Events

The study, by researchers from Imperial College London, involves a new class of materials called metamaterials, which can be artificially engineered to distort light or sound waves. With conventional materials, light typically travels along a straight line, but with metamaterials, scientists can exploit a wealth of additional flexibility to create undetectable blind spots. By deflecting certain parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, an image can be altered or made to look like it has disappeared.

29 FEED ME!!!

30 Liberal San Francisco saving our bacon from ogling perverts and closet masturbaters?  

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at November 18, 2010 08:27 AM (v1gw3)

There was a pilot on Fox last night who is suing the TSA on 4th amendment grounds. He made a pretty good case that the pat down gropings are pretty much illegal. I am somewhat sceptical because the government could make the case that you don't need to fly.

31

I am happy to know that Obama is selling stock in GM that we paid $25 Billion for $13.6 Billion.

That's a sweet deal.

32 The Scandis may yet do something right:

Swedish prosecutor seeks court order to detain WikiLeaks' Assange for questioning in rape case

33

I am happy to know that Obama is selling stock in GM that we paid $25 Billion for $13.6 Billion.

That's a sweet deal.

Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 08:34 AM (hVDig)

Ouch.  So, as a tax payer, do I get to claim my share of that as a capital loss?

34 #30 The TSA would rather infringe your rights then address the obvious, and they could use the same argument to do so.  Shows the power of CAIR.

RIFs use pointy things to take a plane. Remove pointy things.
RIFs use shoe bombs...take off shoes
RIFs use powders and liquids...take away powder and liquids
RIFs use groin bombs...inspect groins
What's going to happen when a RIF puts one up his ass?

35 There was a pilot on Fox last night who is suing the TSA on 4th amendment grounds. He made a pretty good case that the pat down gropings are pretty much illegal. I am somewhat sceptical because the government could make the case that you don't need to fly. Posted by: robtr Ah, yes, the old you don't need to fly or drive or whatever argument. Of course, everything around us has been constructed with the expectation (demand) that you get from A to B in the fastest time possible. Most folks could walk to work, but then how do you work an 8 hour day? It's just bullshit. We do need to drive and we do need to fly. Try telling your boss who is sending you on a business trip 3000 miles away that you'll need two weeks to do it because you plan to drive because ain't nobody touchin' your junk.

36

So i missed most of yesderday at the HQ, do we all hate Jim Demint now or something because some conservatives told RINO's to ease up on the using him an a Snowball like character who deserves all the blame?

 

I'm not very socially conservative, but I didn't realize we were kicking them out of the party. Did  gabe check with everyone at the RNC before he came to this decision.

Remember, Social cons have to be accepting of us Fiscal Cons/Social Moderates, but we don't have to return the same courtesy.

37 Yep.

Get those social conservatives. They're an easy target.

38

I am happy to know that Obama is selling stock in GM that we paid $25 Billion for $13.6 Billion.

That's a sweet deal.

Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 08:34 AM (hVDig)

Ouch.  So, as a tax payer, do I get to claim my share of that as a capital loss?

Posted by: Reactionary at November 18, 2010 08:36 AM (xUM1Q)

Taxpayer? I was an actual OWNER of GM stock when they pulled their stunt. Are they going to replace my shares of (whatever the hell it's called now) with actual shares of GM?

Near as I can tell, i've got nuthin. Fortunately I don't have very much, (of GM stock prior to the bankruptcy) but if I had been bought up to the hilt, I certainly wouldn't find it amusing.

39 Buy ammo.

40 13
I don't have a big problem, in principle, with the DREAM Act.  My problem with it is it leads to more and more and eventually to amnesty.  So, we must stop it any way we can.
I just don't see how Reid is gonna get 60 votes anyway...
Posted by: Chitown Jerry at November 18, 2010 07:59 AM (Do52

The immigration issue has been stood on its head by the "Sentence first -- verdict afterwards" approach insisted upon by the Dimbulbs: "Amnesty first -- borders closed ... maybe, trust us!"
There are millions of people here illegally now. Close the border and enforce the laws already on the books.

41 The only solace you can take from the DREAM Act is that it may be the highwater mark of the amnesty flood.

42 You know, we could kill two birds with one stone, that is, airport security and DNA sampling of the general populace, if we provided handjobs at key security checkpoints.

43 It's just bullshit. We do need to drive and we do need to fly. Try telling your boss who is sending you on a business trip 3000 miles away that you'll need two weeks to do it because you plan to drive because ain't nobody touchin' your junk.

Posted by: eman at November 18, 2010 08:38 AM (72SyE)

Yeah I would agree with you, espeicially since the guy suing them is a pilot. He flys for a living.

I'm just saying the gov. is going to claim it isn't a right.

44 You can touch it but first you're gonna suck it.

45 34 - they have already done that in SA, so appreciate your free prostate exam.

46 43, Yeah, I knew that is what you meant. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

47 Gabe is missing the point on the heretic thing. A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs but one, and that one belief he does not share represents a serious threat to your power structure or existence.

An example would be a pro-monarchist colonist during the war of American Independence, or a pro-slave republican during the civil war, or a pro-nazi Jew (George Soros?) leading up to World War II.

Some heritics are indeed incredibly dangerous, and that one belief may be all the difference between survival and getting wiped out. It is not always trivial. It can be deadly serious.

48

robtr, you're right, flying isn't a right, but the fourth amendment is pretty clear and i think this is a violation of it.

I understand the need  for increased security, but at what point is it too much? Or even worse, not effective?

Napolitano was hinting that muslim women in the hijab would be exempt. That's insanity that I can't even put into words.

The very people who are resposnsible for almost every terror attack on places in america, muslims, might be exempt.  While the rest of us have to get felt up at the airport or have pictures of us taken naked.

It's dehumanizing, not to mention ineffective.  How many terrorists have been caught be TSA frisking before getting on a plane exactly?

49 DiogenesLamp, so your saying Mike Castle ....

50 And, anyway, the post is about Gabe feeling sorry for himself. Feeling sorry for myself? What the hell are you talking about? I chose that quote as a parody of the DeMint fanboi freakout yesterday. Posted by: Gabriel Malor I have a feeling I was wise to skip that one.

51

Yeah I would agree with you, espeicially since the guy suing them is a pilot. He flys for a living.

I'm just saying the gov. is going to claim it isn't a right.

Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 08:44 AM (hVDig)

I have this argument often enough with people who want to claim DRIVING isn't a right, it's a privilege, which the government can take away at their discretion. 

Use of the public roads IS a right! It's an ancient right, recognized as far back as humanity can remember.

52
Near as I can tell, i've got nuthin.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 18, 2010 08:40 AM (/G5LI)

And neither do the unfortunate bond holders including Ma & Pa Kettle who owned the bonds for retirement income.  Now fucked.

So Obama and his cabal of Mafia inspired henchmen decided to rewrite contractual law established with the Magna Carta.  For many this has no meaning, but I interpret it to mean that Obama and his criminal enterprise can negate or alter any contractual obligation irrespective of established law.  Does changing the terms of mortgage obligations ring a bell?  Criminal inspired administration indeed.

53

Use of the public roads IS a right! It's an ancient right, recognized as far back as humanity can remember.

it's not like you paid for it..

54 There are no rights.  Rights are what you can hang on to every day by whatever means you have. 

55 50 DiogenesLamp, so your saying Mike Castle ....

Posted by: Jean at November 18, 2010 08:48 AM (7Jipo)

I regarded Mike Castle as another version of Arlen Specter. I have seen enough of what Arlen Specter did (starting with Robert Bork) to have had my fill of it. No, i'd rather let the enemy have that seat than give it to an untrustworthy friend. At least I KNOW I can't depend on the enemy. 

Christine O'Donnel might not have been the best choice for a liberal area, (Hell, she was turning ME off with all the references to religion) but the time to bitch about what a lousy candidate she was needed to have stopped the day after the primary. Carl Rove may not have cost her the election, but if he hadn't opened his mouth, we wouldn't be able to suggest that he did.

56 I am happy to know that Obama is selling stock in GM that we paid $25 Billion for $13.6 Billion.

Pretty good return...for the govt to lose only 50% of an investment is quite remarkable actually.  Normally, it would be a total wipeout with GM being sold off by the pound to scrap dealers.

Whoever designed this deal saved us a bundle!

57 "flying isn't a right" Sorry, disagree. We have every right to the best technology we can afford. Could you argue the Federal Government had the ability and right to take away your horse in the 19th Century?

58

"I chose that quote as a parody of the DeMint fanboi freakout yesterday."

So, it wasn't about that dead Priest from the Exorcist?  oh.

59 41 The only solace you can take from the DREAM Act is that it may be the highwater mark of the amnesty flood.

We can hope.  How many people thought that the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was the highwater mark at the time?

60 That unexplained "we're pretty sure it was an aircraft" thing zooming over CA a couple of weeks ago? Gen. Tom McInerney is "100% certain it was a missile." http://goo.gl/gdIl3

61 It just says you have to have 2 years of college, not how old you are. It's not just for the children.

That's right. Besides, whoever said that two years in college magically makes a big kid a grown-up ready to bear all responsibilities in life, take out your mortgage or pay your rent without taxing us for subsidies, and pay all your own bills AND TAXES like a good citizen? Dream on with fools.

Lay the guilt trip where it belongs. Democrat-Socialists have siphoned off vibrancy in youth IMPORTED illegally from native lands. These imported people were needed at home, and are needed at home to establish their own homeland security living responsible lives in their native lands. Where much is given, much is expected. These illegal aliens grown in America owe it to EVERYONE including themselves to go GIVE from what they've been given by US taxpayers BACK to the country of their parents' origin, participating in the responsible governance in those native lands, raising their literate children to build those societies. It isn't as if they haven't American investor contacts for venture abroad to discover their roots (a Democrat-Socialist reference).

Neoconservatives promote nation building. Rather than conducting it simply through military conquest and ineffective bribes to effect compliant mind control, EXPORT without tax subsidies the American grown and educated illegal alien "troops" to re-establish their own home ties IN their country of origin.

There's the bipartisan dream act.
 

62 Could you argue the Federal Government had the ability and right to take away your horse in the 19th Century? Posted by: eman at November 18, 2010 08:54 AM (72SyE) Yes if it kept taking a shit on my lawn or foot

63 So Obama and his cabal of Mafia inspired henchmen decided to rewrite contractual law established with the Magna Carta.  For many this has no meaning, but I interpret it to mean that Obama and his criminal enterprise can negate or alter any contractual obligation irrespective of established law.  Does changing the terms of mortgage obligations ring a bell?  Criminal inspired administration indeed.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at November 18, 2010 08:49 AM (v1gw3)

You mean they are thieves? Whatever gave it away?

64

Again it has to be said. If the American People have to go through this at airports, then EVERYONE has to go throuh it. No exemptions. All members of the U.S and local Governments also.

Unless you opt for a private airplane, at your own expense.

Then let us see how long this will last.

65
Posted by: Reactionary at November 18, 2010 08:14 AM (xUM1Q)

So you will use those militias you mentioned to do what? Conduct street battles with the Left? And then break into election board offices to "protect" the ballot counts? And of course those militias will roam the streets, capturing and deporting the aliens that the government is unwilling to deal with?

Rule of Law isn't just a quaint exercise for law students to discuss. The Constitution outlines the rights we have -- and that means all of us, not just your militias. If you don't like the way the left is behaving, then fight them legally. Taking to the streets in armed rebellion is an obscene act.

66 64, That's what your rifle is for.

67

Re the TSA fondling problem, I have a suggestion for an alternative screening method.  I would happily accept each of these conditions for boarding a plane:

1.  I would pass through a bomb chemical sniffer booth - I'm told those machines can detect a few molecules of the stuff.

2.  I'm willing to let a dog lick me, right on the face if need be.

3.  I'll wear a blotch of pig blood on my forehead for the whole flight.

Those three measures are probably adequate to make air travel as secure as it can be made.

68 Got some salty, ticky-tack morons in the house this morning.  Lay off Gabe... save it for Purple Avenger /snark

69 Ben @ 8:38 Remember, Social cons

Check out Vic's response to Gabe early on above.
Well done, that's how I see it.

70 DeMint fanboi freakout yesterday.

Do I even want to know what I missed?

Napolitano was hinting that muslim women in the hijab would be exempt.

Hey, if that gets me on the plane, there's generally a women's bathroom between baggage check and TSA checkpoint where I can duck in, throw the blanket over myself, and make sure all my hair is covered.

There's also generally a men's bathroom next door, where jihadis can duck in, throw the blanket over themselves, and make sure their facial hair is all covered.

71 Rule of Law isn't just a quaint exercise for law students to discuss. The Constitution outlines the rights we have -- and that means all of us, not just your militias. If you don't like the way the left is behaving, then fight them legally. Taking to the streets in armed rebellion is an obscene act.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative) at November 18, 2010 08:56 AM (LH6ir)

Considering that our Laws (starting with the creation of the US Constitution) required you to be a taxpayer in order to vote, and considering how that has been undermined by manipulation, you feel that overtly restoring things back the way they are supposed to be is inferior to doing it through sneak and guile?

72 Could you argue the Federal Government had the ability and right to take away your horse in the 19th Century?

Posted by: eman at November 18, 2010 08:54 AM (72SyE)

When hard pressed, didn't the Union Army do just that during the 1860s?

73 That's what your rifle is for. Posted by: eman at November 18, 2010 08:58 AM (72SyE) Well if they let me take my rifle and pistol on the plane, ther'ed be no need for any other secuity

74 74, With a public safety argument?

75 Besides, whoever said that two years in college magically makes a big kid a grown-up ready to bear all responsibilities in life, take out your mortgage or pay your rent without taxing us for subsidies, and pay all your own bills AND TAXES like a good citizen?

You can do all those things without college...shit, you used to be able to do them without a high school diploma, back before society insisted it was cool for middle-aged people to act like adolescents (and that if you have a lot of melanin you shouldn't be expected to do those things at any age, but that's a rant for another time).

76 CharlieBrown'sDildo ( NJConservative), you saw the SEIU purple shirts counting the votes in CA, you have heard that the DoJ is not perusing non-minority voters rights cases; how do you expect people to feel when the political and legal processes are denied to them.

77 Unless you opt for a private airplane, at your own expense.

I saw a lot of references to this yesterday. It doesn't matter if you use a private airplane or not. If you use a gate at a public airport that is within the security envelope (and if I am not mistaken they all are) you will be forced to undergo TSA screening.

There re two "opt out" provisions in the Act. First individuals may "opt out" before they enter the security screening area in which case they will not fly.

Second, the entire airport may opt out of the TSA screening by the TSA and hire contact security. However, the contractors must be on the government approved list and they must meet all the government required regulations.  The Orlando Airport has opted to go that route.

That will not do much good though. It doesn't really make much difference whether a government goon gropes you or a contract goon gropes you by direction of the TSA.

What is needed is a House budget bill that defunds the TSA and fires everyone of them. Essentially killing the agency.

Go back to the law in effect in 2000 and apply some common sense stuff determined by a civilian panel of security experts who are not in government at all. Do not let ANY political critter or their staff touch it. They only get to vote up or down on it.

78

I didn't notice the quote today. I was just reviewing posts from yesterday.

As I Fiscal Con/Social Moderate, I notice that we don't really have to show and deference to Social Cons, but demand it from them.

I read the article and it seemed to me that the conservatives in it were pointing out the obvious. That more Republicans over the past two weeks, both publically and privately, have been speaking poorly of Demint and blaming him for electoral loses than speaking poorly of the democrats or highly of the tea party who turned it into a wave.

Jim Demint has fought harder so Fiscal Conservatism than almost anyone else in the last session of congress, so we turn on his because he's also a strong beliver in social conservatism.

We don't give him the benefit of the doubt when his you can't be a fiscal conservate and note a social conservatism quote is not given in full context. I disagree with him, but if you watch the whole interview he makes a decent point about government growth often being the result of social ills. We just have different ideas on how to cure those social ills.

I'm don't think Demint is perfect by anymeans, but let's not treat this article or statement the same way the Left treated Ari Fliesher's begnin statement about peolpe watching what they say.

sorry i'm late to this one, i was out most of yesterday

 

 

79

Again it has to be said. If the American People have to go through this at airports, then EVERYONE has to go throuh it. No exemptions. All members of the U.S and local Governments also.

Unless you opt for a private airplane, at your own expense.

Then let us see how long this will last.

 

what was the line? Congress shall never lift a rod against itself.

or something along those lines?

80 What the hell are you talking about? I chose that quote as a parody of the DeMint fanboi freakout yesterday. Posted by: Gabriel Malor

Sounded like Julius' incredible "You are what you link. Evil." /paraphrase

81 "The breasts of a college girl from Amarillo posed a security threat May 29, 2008 requiring a strip down and public exposure conducted by TSA." We need some photographic evidence to be a judge of that...

82 48 And, anyway, the post is about Gabe feeling sorry for himself.

Feeling sorry for myself? What the hell are you talking about? I chose that quote as a parody of the DeMint fanboi freakout yesterday.

Funny, I thought it was you who were excommunicating social conservatives--for which you, in turn, got slapped down.

83

I saw a lot of references to this yesterday. It doesn't matter if you use a private airplane or not. If you use a gate at a public airport that is within the security envelope (and if I am not mistaken they all are) you will be forced to undergo TSA screening.

I fly on corporate planes a couple of times a year. You get on them right at the hanger and don't usually go through the gate. Not that it's an option for most people.

 

84 If you use a gate at a public airport that is within the security envelope (and if I am not mistaken they all are) you will be forced to undergo TSA screening.

C'mon Vic, do you really think Pelosi, Frank and the rest go through that?

85 Finally, a way to make your next TSA groping much more pleasant... Top Ten Songs To Be Groped By Now with optional DJ happy chatter!

86 Ben, Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

87 When hard pressed, didn't the Union Army do just that during the 1860s? To reiterate what eman said - "thats what your rifle is for ..."

88 To be honest I have no problem with the scanner or even a pat down but I understand how others might. But when the whole process has become a joke, you know there is a big problem.

89
When hard pressed, didn't the Union Army do just that during the 1860s?

Posted by: maverick muse at November 18, 2010 09:02 AM (H+LJc)

The time of the Civil war is not an era I would use as an example of Government adhering to constitutional principles. Suspension of Habeas Corpus, locking up dissidents, impressment, Arresting the legislators, etc.

90 Suspension of Habeas Corpus, locking up dissidents, impressment, Arresting the legislators, etc. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 18, 2010 09:13 AM (/G5LI) You say that like there is something wrong with all those things?

91 I don't think you guys understand.  You get the groping FOR FREE

92

Arresting the legislators, etc.

Ahhh, the good old days.

(Just kidding).

But not by much.

93 I fly on corporate planes a couple of times a year. You get on them right at the hanger and don't usually go through the gate. Not that it's an option for most people.

I have flown on private airplanes as well that did NOT go through the gates at a public airport so no security screening. But as I said, if you use a gate you are going to get the TSA search period.

I also expect that given the way the government operates that the "hanger" boarding on private aircraft is going to be eliminated in the future as well.

Unless the people act (rare), government power ALWAYS increases.

94 BTW, that "hanger boarding" option is not allowed for aircraft that fly more than a certain number of passengers.

Perhaps someone here who has an ATP rating can illuminate on this.

95 Truman sure it's free, they didn't pay me a damn'd thing, buy me a drink or dinner  , make pancakes and   shouldn't the gropers at least be cute?

96 If they ran the TSA like they ran a Hooters, there would be no problem with this at all.

97 Obama Nominates Scenester to Make National Debt Hip

98 C'mon Vic, do you really think Pelosi, Frank and the rest go through that?

Posted by: HH at November 18, 2010 09:11 AM (6oDXl)

Pelosi and company most often fly military. I guess we will see next year when Pelosi is forced to fly commercial.

99 What I find odd is that at the general aviation terminals (at least at major airports), they still make the passengers show ID. No search, but a valid photo ID. Whats the point?

100 Maybe Janet Incompetano and Kathleen Squealbelius can combine TSA screening with Obamacare.  Have docs or nurses conduct prostate exams and pap smears on people trying to get on an airplane.  Takes care of airport security and lowers health care costs at the same time!  I'm all about "thinking outside the box" and saving taxpayer dollars.  Don't try to talk me out of it, either!  NOBODY MESSES WITH ME!

101 88 Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

Agreed.  I cringed when I found out Demint had said that.  If that was true, we'd have more social cons that were also fiscal cons, but sadly that isn't the case.  Too many of my Christian brethren in particular, flirt with "Christian socialism", that is where they think the state should take care of the downtrodden.  Not only do they forget that even Jesus said "The poor shall always be with you", but they are abdicating responsibility of caring for the poor themselves. 

102 Ben, he makes a decent point about government growth often being the result of social ills.

Constituents demand "Law and Order". Local authorities shrug it off for their managers, eventually moving up the chain of government to the federal authorities to "fix".  The President's advisers concoct a "nice" recipe for disaster. Smiling legislators promise freebies. The courts demand "social justice" via reverse discrimination performed by the government upon society, and judges legislate from the bench to enforce their socialism. All branches of the Government respond to the "fix", spawning socialist programs to "cure" problems using the recipe for disaster, making things horribly worse through this perpetually augmenting vicious cycle.

DeMint's point is solid.

103 93 I don't think you guys understand.  You get the groping FOR FREE

There are some things in life that you still don't want even if they are "free".

Being groped and having my tiny staff of decadence (and my hairy, fat body) critiqued by the TSA's equivalents of Helen Thomas... DO NOT WANT!

104 Well, this is a splendid way to start my Thursday!!

105 Social cons cost us the Senate majority this election.

106 Yay!  Some sanity out of Georgia and Florida.  They're looking into opting out of the nekkid scanners, and doing away with TSA screeners, going to private contractors.  Thank God for some sanity.  How about hiring returning Iraq and Afghanistan war vets?  And profile away, baby.

And I need more coffee....

107 Being groped and having my tiny staff of decadence (and my hairy, fat body) critiqued by the TSA's equivalents of Helen Thomas... DO NOT WANT! Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 18, 2010 09:22 AM (9hSKh) I'm 56. I have someone watch me pee every month. I really could care less. But that's just me.

108 Well, this is a splendid way to start my Thursday!! Posted by: Penfold at November 18, 2010 09:23 AM (1PeEC) You do know it's Friday don't y.....oh wait. Shit what happened to Thursday?

109 Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

Posted by: sexypig at November 18, 2010 09:11 AM (SXn93)

Ya know that's really well stated and a reasonable way to present a valid point.  And you did it without acting like a complete assbag by using edgy terms like fanboi multiple times.,

110

Ben,

Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

I guess. See the bottom of my post about overreacting to a soundbite.

He was making the argument that most of government growth was the result of social issues. Kids out of wedlock, drugs, people not taking care of their elderly parents, etc.

We can disagree, but do we need to throw him by the wayside for his beliefs?

I don't recall the social conservatives completely dumping on a Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal congressman or senator. 

 

111 Smiling legislators promise freebies. The courts demand "social justice" via reverse discrimination performed by the government upon society, and judges legislate from the bench to enforce their socialism. All branches of the Government respond to the "fix", spawning socialist programs to "cure" problems using the recipe for disaster, making things horribly worse through this perpetually augmenting vicious cycle.

DeMint's point is solid.

Posted by: maverick muse at November 18, 2010 09:21 AM (H+LJc)

A valid point. Anyone remember "The Great Society" ?

112

"...shouldn't the gropers at least be cute?"

Do you get a pass if the TSA groper's your Uncle?

113 That DeMint quote was much more nuanced than that. His detractors have taken it out of context and blown it all out of proportion.

His point was that the relationship between big government and religion correlates. Read the original article at that bastion of ultra conservatism (snark) Hot Air.

http://tinyurl.com/2eygqmd 

114 Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con.

I'd like a clarification as well. To be socially conservative requires an element of Libertarianism, eliminating authoritarianism from government. Respect the Constitution.

As Vic pointed out, "social con" has been crafted in meaning by the Left. To fall for their definition and application is foolish.

I won't, DeMint shouldn't, and conservatives don't need to.

Strictly speaking, "Social Conservatism" retains the efficacy of "constructionist" Constitutional Law in daily life. 

115

Arresting the legislators, etc.

Ahhh, the good old days.

(Just kidding).

But not by much.

Posted by: HH

*********

By the sounds of it yesterday, I think most people here would lock up Sen. DeMint first...

116 My feelings exactly.

117

Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

He got that backwards, You Can't be a Social Con Unless you are a Fiscal Con.

If you spend yourself, your government, your church etc into bankruptcey you are unable to do anything about your social con tendenceys.

118

.....oh wait. Shit what happened to Thursday?

Probably because there are no good songs about it that it disappears. Actually, come to think about it, I don't think there are bad songs about Thursday....

119 Joanie - I recommend the old Plum Is. procedures - everybody has clear an ID check, shower under observation, then scramble through a bin of castoff chuck taylors and surgical garb for something to wear. Groping could be optional, like at Schipol.

120 Posted by: Vic at November 18, 2010 09:15 AM

Vic, I've flown on corporate jets a few times myself post-9/11, and even when the company had its own "gate" at a public airport, there were screening procedures in place. Bags went through an X-ray machine, and all passengers had to go through a scanner.

It was never as intrusive or annoying as the process for commercial flights, but I was a bit surprised. After all, it was rare for this company to let anyone other than its own execs get on the company planes.

No biggie, and it didn't even slow things down.

121

DeMint's point is solid.

Look, I would agree, but I don't think the interview went deep enough for me to understand 100% of how he wants to cure social ills.

I wasn't sure if he was then saying the government should be deciding what is morally right, or simply saying that individuals should be.

If it is the latter, I totally agree. I also agree that many of our problems can be traced to social and societal problems.

However, even if he thinks the former, I don't all the sudden hate the guy.

people on my side who are socially moderate, especially certain bloggers here and elsewhere demand acceptence or at the very least tolerance of their opinions, but they aren't required to give it to others. And they're then suprised when people get pissed at them.. It's done in an especially condescending and snarky way, as if to say we're smarter and cooler than you dumb anochronistic social cons.

 

122 MrScribbler - SigAir at Dulles just asks the pilot to check his passengers in at the dispatch desk where your IDs are checked.

123 Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.


"Meme" or not, you can't kill the truth and there's a lot of truth to the idea that social conservatism is the predicate for fiscal conservatism.  Every negative political revolution has been conjoined with an attack on traditional morality.  Keynes's famous disregard for the long-term effects of his policies--"In the long run we are all dead"--is a reflection of his anti-traditionalism, his homosexuality and hedonism.

I mean, I guess you can be a (right-leaning) libertarian and care nothing for tradition and social conservatism, but no actual society in the real world is made up of the autonomous, genderless, and merely rational individuals who populate libertarian fantasies.  The real world includes children and the aged, the infirm and the disabled, men and women--all bound together, to different degrees, in a web of obligation and custom.

I am a social conservative because that's the way the world works best.  And from a base of social cohesion and obligation, free markets and political liberty can flourish.  Do those things sometimes threaten the social base?  Of course: see Bell's Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism.  But life is full of tension and compromise.  We have to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.  Conservatives are not ideologues; we're practical people.  Are we opposed to social change?  No, but we're in favor of gradual evolution.  We don't let justice trump liberty, nor liberty justice.

Thank you.  Amen.  God bless America.

124 That DeMint quote was much more nuanced than that. His detractors have taken it out of context and blown it all out of proportion.

His point was that the relationship between big government and religion correlates. Read the original article at that bastion of ultra conservatism (snark) Hot Air.

http://tinyurl.com/2eygqmd 

Posted by: Vic

 

So once again MFM talking points and spin are being presented as fact here? This is exactly what several of us observed happening to Palin and others. Why are we here doing the work of the MFM? I learned in Poli Sci 101 to be skeptical and consider the source everytime we hear something.

125

"...everybody has clear an ID check, shower under observation, then scramble through a bin of castoff chuck taylors and surgical garb for something to wear. "

I'd much prefer it Laverne & Shirley-style, where passengers wearing blindfolds dress each other up in crazy hats & ratty fur stoles. That way you don't know whose genitals you have in your hand and that hat looks fabulous.

126

Sarah Palin for POTUS.

There I've dump blood in the water.

 

127

Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

He got that backwards, You Can't be a Social Con Unless you are a Fiscal Con.

If you spend yourself, your government, your church etc into bankruptcey you are unable to do anything about your social con tendenceys.

Posted by: robtr

 

No he certainly did not. Try reading through the famous quote by C.S. Lewis about the worst sort of tyranny. A 'social conservative' (this term is not apt) does not foist upon others solutions that cannot be defended constitutionally or fiscally. it's basic dishonesty. Want an example? The Diocese of Wilmington screams loud and long about 'social justice' and the needs of the poor. It demands legislations and policies for which there is no funding, or justification. But in its own affairs, it closes schools ad parishes that it cannot support, and hides behind beankruptcy proceeding to limit losses from sexual abuse cases.

128

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge,
about to jump off.  So I ran over and said, "Stop! don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

I said, "Me too!  Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

I said, "Me too!  Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me too!  Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

I said, "Wow! Me too!  Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of God!"

I said, "Me too!  Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed
Baptist Church of God?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God!"

I said, "Me too!  Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879,
or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

129 When the Phillies and/or the visiting team leaves Citizens Bank Park to catch the flight to the next city, the TSA sends agents to the ballpark to screen all of the luggage ....and the players...before they get onto the bus. The area in which they do the inspections is restricted, and the entire process takes about 2 hours (the bulk of which is done while the game is being played). Don't know if anyone is touching Ryan Howard's junk, though.

130 No search, but a valid photo ID. Whats the point?

Record of who was on the plane so when it goes down, they can ID the remains?

131 Luca Brasi, interesting - so they are willing to do off-airport screening

132 yeah apparently I missed the SoCon/FiCon freakout yesterday too. oh well.
I kinda see the SoCon/FiCon divide as a co-dependent relationship:
SoCons need FiCons so that the SoCons don't go all big-government, social-justice-y on us
FiCons need SoCons so that FiCons are reminded of the true value of money

just my stupid inane ramblings for the day

133 Oh, and, of course, the bus takes the team straight to the charter, which is usually parked at the back of the airport somewhere. Near the body-dumping zone, I think.

134 Heather - thats what teeth are for?

135 It demands legislations and policies for which there is no funding, or justification. But in its own affairs, it closes schools ad parishes that it cannot support, and hides behind beankruptcy proceeding to limit losses from sexual abuse cases.

Posted by: Blue Hen © at November 18, 2010 09:44 AM (R2fpr)

You made my point for me. Because CS Lewis said it doesn't make it true.

Take George Bush as an example, a good man, a social con but not even close to being a fiscal conservative. Doubling the nation debt while sponsering the biggest entitlement expansion since LBJ is not fiscally conservative.

136 It seem the charge of heresy is more properly aimed at the author of the Thread.
It is assumed anything that is popular, is right, apriori to any fixed constitutional principles, the Conservative HQ is a very measured document, particularly considering that many of the attacks on Demint's positions are parallel to those voiced by the likes of Lisa Murkowski.  Like the failure to strenuously defend
O'Donnell when she was proven right in the debate. Or when Palin has been proven right, time and again, but one chooses to rely on the misperceptions often deliberately generated by the Journolist/Netrooters/SRM

137 Luca - hey, that where we used to fish

138

133...Yes. The do it all the time. We have a couple of guys  (I work for the team) stationed near the players' entrance to remind them that no liquid is allowed to be carried in.

 I remember some pissed-off TSA guys that had to sit around for a few hours waiting for the Giants to finish celebrating their series win..they had to inspect the NL trophy...and relieve them of any champagne that they wanted to take onto the flight home....

139 I still dont get why we don't have solid biometrics in place, What could go wrong?

140 Jean--yeah, and it goes faster if the people whose records you requested are actually the people on the plane.

Although I suppose a good fake photo ID...

Hrm.

141

Demint said that you can't be fiscal con unless you are a social con. That pissed some people off, me included. Now, he's an awesome guy, but we need to kill this meme right here and right now.

Well, OK, then.  Let's keep paying for everyone's abortions and welfare and quit bitching about it.  See, it's all good.

142 Another thing to keep in mind about this DeMint kerfuckle is where all this stuff keeps originating from.

The original quote was taken out of a long explanation at the Voters Values Summit. The liberal blogs picked it up and pushed it all over the place. Even that link I gave earlier to HA went to Huff Post.

The latest quote comes from a Fox news article from the 12 on 12 series where they throw the quote up there. It would have been nice to see the entire conversation on that issue instead of a 30 sec sound bite from a heavily edited interview.

Like Huff Post, Fox has NEVER been known to be a friend of conservatives. Keep in mind who their favorite candidate in the primaries for 2008 was AFTER Rudy decided not to run.

The bottom line is this. If you want what he really thinks find a video of that Values Voters Summit speech and watch that. And I'll repeat what I have been saying now since the 2008 debackle;

NEVER TAKE ANYTHING THE NEWS MEDIA SAYS FOR GOSPEL. Always verify.

And the same thing goes for what the blogs say, except that if its a liberal blog like Huff or Politico you can pretty much write it off as a lie.

143 It demands legislations and policies for which there is no funding, or justification. But in its own affairs, it closes schools ad parishes that it cannot support, and hides behind beankruptcy proceeding to limit losses from sexual abuse cases.

Posted by: Blue Hen © at November 18, 2010 09:44 AM (R2fpr)

You made my point for me. Because CS Lewis said it doesn't make it true.

Take George Bush as an example, a good man, a social con but not even close to being a fiscal conservative. Doubling the nation debt while sponsering the biggest entitlement expansion since LBJ is not fiscally conservative.

Posted by: robtr

 

I did no such thing. Demanding something, anything, without justification or coherence is anathema to conservatism. Liberals demand justice for the poor. Does that make them "social cons"? Leftists whine in favor of gutting immigration laws. Does that make them "social conservatives"?

No, it makes them out to be frauds. They demand things that cannot be squared with the constitution or justified regarding costs.

Example of "social conservatism": The Catholic Church operating orphanages, schools and hospitals. This is otherwise known as faith in action.

Another example: The Church speaking out against abortion and its perverse effects upon society and the law.

Example of false social conservatism: The Church or anyone else making up rights such as universal health care, draconian requirements on businesses and governments. There is no difference between the Church demanding universal health care and leftists demanding abortion on demand at the taxpayers expense. Both are indefensible form a fiscal or legal standpoint.

144 Saw a headline with Munchowski's pic which said something about "our miracle" and I couldn't bring myself to even click on the article.

145
"Meme" or not, you can't kill the truth and there's a lot of truth to the idea that social conservatism is the predicate for fiscal conservatism.  Every negative political revolution has been conjoined with an attack on traditional morality.  Keynes's famous disregard for the long-term effects of his policies--"In the long run we are all dead"--is a reflection of his anti-traditionalism, his homosexuality and hedonism.

Thank you.  Amen.  God bless America.

Posted by: Leo Ladenson at November 18, 2010 09:38 AM (mAm+G)

Very good insight. I try to make this point all the time, but people have a hard time "getting" it. There is a REASON liberals attack Social conservatism that is part and parcel of their attack on free market capitalism. Two sides of the same coin.

I save time by referring to them as "the forces of evil." 

146

134  I think it's a symbiotic relationship as well -- and I'll add that the term "social con" can be misleading.  I think there are a lot of different breeds of the beast.

As for the amnesty: perhaps we should grant amnesty -- and then declare war on Mexico (let's face it; Mexico is a problem and always will be -- and from the moral certitude test, the Mexican gov't. is a royal pos in every way).  Grant the citizens of Mexico amnesty if they become frontline troops in the fight against their corrupt as frak gov't. and the filthy drug cartels -- there might be some booty to be had and Mexico is not without natural resources we could use -- plus it pushes the border further south and a smaller area to guard.

147
For all you naysayer's doubting the ability of GM to perform, it's trading at 35 1/8, well above the release price of 33.

The reason for such stellar performance must be credited to both the unions and the anticipated sales of Chevrolet Volt.  What's not to like about this action, even though Volt will only sell in small numbers to ideological purist with rainbow bumper stickers, and the American public will never be repaid.  It's all about the bull shit GM and liberal press narrative.

If we're not getting fucked by the GM debacle, you can be assured you will be mind fucked at TSA groping centers all across America. 

148

And as for hiding behind George Bush, you need to recall the many times his spending and programs were derided as being against conservative principles. Huckabee has desservedly been the subject of similar criticisms.

 

Example of George Bush being a "social conservative": banning federal funding for embryonic stem cell testing that required the destruction of new lines of embryos.

Example of George Bush being the exact opposite of a "social conservative": The medicare drug plan augmentation.

 

Government invovelement and funding of health care is one of the goals of the left and of liberals. It is also the goal of many who are falsely labeled as being "social conservatives".

 

149

Oh, forgot to add @148: Deport (or just execute) the ones who refuse to help us in our conquest and/or refuse to become loyal, integrated American citizens.

Barry might like it -- it might give him his 57 states.

150

No, it makes them out to be frauds. They demand things that cannot be squared with the constitution or justified regarding costs.

You mean like the medicare drug bill?

My point is that if you spend irresponsibly you end up taking away from one person like your grandkids regarding the medicare drug bill and using that money to buy your drugs.

Spending irresponsibally leads to social breakdown and no hope for social conservatism. There are several examples in history that bear this out.

151 How come we're not hearing that the Government Motors IPO is in reality a method of transferring tangible (but f'd up) assets to the primary bond holders of the US?

I keed, I keed.

152 Being groped and having my tiny staff of decadence (and my hairy, fat body) critiqued by the TSA's equivalents of Helen Thomas... DO NOT WANT!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 18, 2010 09:22 AM (9hSKh)

Kratos, pshaw. We Moronettes want you for your mind.

153 #145 Example of false social conservatism: The Church or anyone else making up rights such as universal health care, draconian requirements on businesses and governments. There is no difference between the Church demanding universal health care and leftists demanding abortion on demand at the taxpayers expense. Both are indefensible form a fiscal or legal standpoint.

Good point. 

154
OMG

Columbia, SC (AP)--Awaiting a South Carolina court hearing related to two obscenity charges, former U.S. senate hopeful Alvin Greene said Tuesday he's not through with politics and already has his eye on his next pursuit:  the White House.

"I was born to be president," Greene said, seated in the back row of a courtroom in the Richland Country Courthouse in Columbia.  "I am the greatest person that ever lived."

Popcorn futures soar.

155 Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 08:31 AM (hVDig)

I know it's early, but yes the government can make the case that you don't need to fly, however, since flying is his livelihood doesn't that place him in a different category altogether.  Probably he will win and they will just exempt all pilots.  Rather than the rest of us.

Seriously I'm curious about the claims of DNA alteration and cancer from going in those machines.  I have friends who fly all over to sell for a living, they are asking a lot of questions about this machine and getting a lot of no answers to anything they ask.  Although last night my very drunk friend said "why should I put myself through a machine called "rapescan" if I don't know what it's doing to me, that name right there makes me nervous?"   Is that true is it seriously called "rapescan" or was he drunk and got it wrong?

156 Liberals demand justice for the poor.

Liberals demand free stuff (confiscated from others) for "the poor."

157

Is this note proof  that Nancy Pelosi is mildly retarded?  Check out this Kos blog:  http://tinyurl.com/3xtcpk4

 

158 "Too subtle", Gabe?  Really?

Where have I heard that kind of sentiment recently?

Irony.^©  It's not just for half-assed Canuck pop stars anymore.

159 Anyone remember "The Great Society" ? Posted by: DiogenesLamp

Yes. We were living outside D.C. when Kennedy was shot, and returned home out west when LBJ was Potus. Whatever childhood innocence was supposed to exist for kids in grade school simply wasn't the same after that. National politics entered the playground in third grade where it had never been before given the public civil unrest of the era. It hurt my feelings to watch firehoses pushing women along with  men down hard on pavement in broadcast marches.

From a child's eyes, what I gathered then from my Democrat dad's explanation, "The Great Society" bothered me. Rather than gifting us with new clothes instead of hand-me-downs, my parents were going to pay the government to buy other children things I felt I needed/deserved just as much as anyone. kids

160

Take George Bush as an example, a good man, a social con but not even close to being a fiscal conservative. Doubling the nation debt while sponsering the biggest entitlement expansion since LBJ is not fiscally conservative.

Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 09:50 AM (hVDig)

Most SoCons are also FisCons. Bush grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth and never learned how to manage money. He got elected because everyone assumed he was both Socially Conservative (on the surface) AND Fiscally Conservative. We were all shocked to discover he was just a  Rockefeller big government Republican. By then it was too late to do anything about it. As a result, Conservatives have been unfairly maligned because of the excesses of George W.

161 I read the more "nuanced" quote and get the same exact reaction - you better believe in Big God or you will become a pawn of the Little God, Government...uh, why? And if the SoCons here are going to define SoCon as letting everyone do whatever they want, but we personally are going to be Christian....that ain't SoCon, that libertarian. I am fine with that. Just don't come around later and say that you don't like gays getting civil unions or married, or that they shouldn't be in the military, or that masturbation/porn is evil or, hey wouldn't it be cool to have prayer in school and teach about the Jebus sometimes? I am not a raving atheist or against Christians, I just say fine do that on your own time, on your own dime. Part of my problem with pushing family values, is that it sure does seem to come back to haunt us a lot when Governer S. or whoever turns out to be a do as I say, not as I do kind of guy. Oh, on some issues, I think you can actually be a SoCon out of conscience like abortion (even without believing in a Big God, too, its amazing, I know.) But gay people having civil unions? or masturbation?Who is that harming so badly that the government must marshal its powers to stop it. And actually, if we had an economy humming along, 5% unemployment, no national debt, then I would actually say, yeah, let's bring out those issues front and center. Maybe its tactical on my part, but I for sure know some people who would be sorely tempted to vote for a GOP candidate...and then they hear the MFM on COD's schtick and they just can't do it. Some of them were raised in Christian homes where things were not so nice and they just flip out. Maybe this is like a Gay Pride Parade....just tone it down and no one gets upsets. You don't need to let your Jesus Freak flag fly, my man. rant off...and really its not that big a deal, but I don't like Christian politicians telling me that unless I follow the Big God, I must be sucking at the government teat. Nope.

162 We had cause to conquer Mexico during WWI. Oh well, it's not too late.

163 My morning joe watcher friend told me this morning he thinks the news is right, he thinks the ticket is going to be mayor mike and morning joe casue this morning morning joe did nothing but attack sarah palin and say she couldn't get elected.  When he told me this I began to wonder which moron is morning joe.

anyways, guiliani is the best new york has to offer.  Why would republicans take several steps down in class and nominate these two?

164

No, it makes them out to be frauds. They demand things that cannot be squared with the constitution or justified regarding costs.

You mean like the medicare drug bill

 

Read post #150. The example you cite is best labeled as as overextension usually seen coming from a Leftist, not a conservative. But to many, including many here, it is useful to deride this as being a symptom of "social conservatism". It isn't. A power grab is just that.

Just as people in favor of abortion, or "gay rights" bristle at the label of liberal, preferring to be called 'moderate' (Mike Castle, call your office, while you still can), don't be surprised whe you hear a refutation of this indiscriminate use of "social con".

165

Ok, really?  I think you conservatives/Republicans are a bit nuts...and damn ineffective to the point of losing the country (which is what you seem to be hell bent on allowing to happen).

Here's my advice:

Commie or not commie?  Patriot or America hater?  Those are the only distinctions you should be making right now -- because we've got plenty in the "bad" categories for you to fight with just those two broad generalizations.  Nit picking is for peaceful, safe times -- we don't have those right now.  So you'd better square away and quit with the in-fighting -- or you won't have a country much longer.

166 "The Great Society"

Given the societal progression from Civil Rights to Black Panther Supremacy within a decade, The Great Society proved a dismal failure, taking fathers out of homes for welfare mom's kids to grow up wild in urban slums, become juvenile delinquents rioting, killing, burning and looting rather than peacefully protesting their sense of grievances that even recently proved successful via Civil Rights legislation made law.

Marxism took hold in broken home ghetto neighborhoods to provide order by force where Christianity was taunted as a whiteman's religion for uncle toms by Muslim converts, some of whom "re-converted" as Liberation Theology to replace Jesus with Marx as if Christian. "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him." There's the LBJ Great Society legacy.

167 "Rather than gifting us with new clothes instead of hand-me-downs, my parents were going to pay the government to buy other children things I felt I needed/deserved just as much as anyone." You greedy little bastard! Let me guess your Dad had a job, busted his ass, and saved money. Oh, man, you child of privilege.../sarc off/

168 Is that true is it seriously called "rapescan" or was he drunk and got it wrong?

Rapiscan, supposed to be pronounced "Rap-i-scan" (like "rapid"). But who'd guess that pronunciation from the spelling?

169 Generally, when someone says the word 'social', I reach for my gun...

170

Is this note proof  that Nancy Pelosi is mildly retarded?  Check out this Kos blog: 

Aside from the fact that I'd need to take another shower if I clicked on a KosKids, link do we really we need more proof that there is something very wrong with Pelosi?

171

 

http://tinyurl.com/2a9gq4q

172 The Social / Fiscal entanglement can best be described simply:  If people show restraint and control their actions, government has fewer openings to do it for them.

It's counterintuitive, I know, but sometimes freedom is best preserved by restraint...

173 No sock!

174

 

ObamaCare - Already repealed for unions.

175 Even with the demise of Pancho Villa, given Germany's military presence and the relocated Trotsky, We had cause to conquer Mexico during WWI.

Oh well, it's not too late. Posted by: eman

176 Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 18, 2010 10:15 AM (A/iZj)

My friend got so drunk for a Wednesday night, he actually frightened a lot of us.  He's mr. hard worker, serious as a heart attack, I don't drink too much when I have work the next day.  Apparently he has called everywhere to try and find out about these machines and he can't get any answers.  he is seriously upset and he's a real lib.  I see him this upset and I can't even enjoy the little liberal veil falling before him, I just feel bad for him as everything he believes is being challenged right now by his own brain.

177 From a child's eyes, what I gathered then from my Democrat dad's explanation, "The Great Society" bothered me. Rather than gifting us with new clothes instead of hand-me-downs, my parents were going to pay the government to buy other children things I felt I needed/deserved just as much as anyone. kids

Posted by: maverick muse at November 18, 2010 10:11 AM (H+LJc)

Beyond that it created squalor and worsened poverty. It lead people to believe that they could get by without having to work, and that they could be as irresponsible with their own lives as they wished because someone else would come along and feed them and clothe them and shelter them.

It taught males that they didn't have to care for their offspring, and it taught females that they didn't have to be judicious in selecting their mates. It created generations of criminals and parasites which we are still dealing with today.

178 "So you'd better square away and quit with the in-fighting -- or you won't have a country much longer."

For some, the whole point is the in-fighting. Watch how fast people rush to label anyone who is not their extra-special-friend-candidate as a Liberal, a RINO, a Statist, blah, blah, blah. It's the same old "discredit them before anyone has a chance to see them" tactic that the Libs use all the time.
I expect I'll be reading at least a year of posts by people wetting themselves and turning purple-faced at the name of Romney, Giuliani, Palin, DeMint, etc. until we finally have a candidate. Then the purists will threaten to take their ball home (no candidate is ever pure enough), and everyone else will flip out and call them closet Obama supporters.
It's a joke.

179 When was Trotsky ousted from Russia? And why did he choose territory along the AZ border for hiding?

180 Example of false social conservatism: The Church or anyone else making up rights such as universal health care, draconian requirements on businesses and governments.

Who is making the argument that UHC is an objective of social conservatives? I think your analysis is suffering from some deep flaws in your underlying assumptions.

181 "If people show restraint and control their actions, government has fewer openings to do it for them." Uhhh, how about this one, instead "If the government is not allowed to interfere in your life, they will have fewer openings to do so."

182 Beck is saying they want to control our blackberries now, by scrambling them so we can't use them in certain places at certain times?  What are they kidding, he had some guy talking about "bad behavior"????  What?   Isn't being American having the right to do whatever you want as long as you don't violate someone else's right to do the same?   Now the government is behaving like my dad?

183

Then the purists will threaten to take their ball home (no candidate is ever pure enough), and everyone else will flip out and call them closet Obama supporters.
It's a joke.

Actually, I can't wait for this part.  It's the real reason I follow politics-- to fight against and alienate myself from people who agree with me!

184 174 The Social / Fiscal entanglement can best be described simply:  If people show restraint and control their actions, government has fewer openings to do it for them.

It's counterintuitive, I know, but sometimes freedom is best preserved by restraint...

Posted by: Joe 'Frankenstein' Biden at November 18, 2010 10:17 AM (GBXon)

I am a fan of Edmund Burke who said this:

"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."

185

Read post #150. The example you cite is best labeled as as overextension usually seen coming from a Leftist, not a conservative. But to many, including many here, it is useful to deride this as being a symptom of "social conservatism". It isn't. A power grab is just that.

I'm not saying it's a symptom of social conservatism, I am saying it was done by several social conservatives including Bush and those in the congress.

I brought it up because it contidicts your quote from CS Lewis.

I would consider myself a social moderate for instance but I am very much a fiscal conservative. Libertarians are socially liberal but very fiscally conservative.

I stick by my comment whether Demint said it or not what was atributed to him is backwards. You can't assure social conservatism unless you first get your fiscal house in order. If you are living on the street you have no power to even defend or provide the basics in life.

186 Stalin had a socialist spy murder Trotsky in Mexico in 1940.

187

"So you'd better square away and quit with the in-fighting -- or you won't have a country much longer."

For some, the whole point is the in-fighting. Watch how fast people rush to label anyone who is not their extra-special-friend-candidate as a Liberal, a RINO, a Statist, blah, blah, blah. It's the same old "discredit them before anyone has a chance to see them" tactic that the Libs use all the time.
I expect I'll be reading at least a year of posts by people wetting themselves and turning purple-faced at the name of Romney, Giuliani, Palin, DeMint, etc. until we finally have a candidate. Then the purists will threaten to take their ball home (no candidate is ever pure enough), and everyone else will flip out and call them closet Obama supporters.
It's a joke.

This sounds like Obamunist talk to me.

 

In all seriousness, nothing is wrong with internal debate, but the snarky/condescneding attitude of many isn't helpful.

188 Posted by: Blue Hen ©


Nice to see you back here..  I thought you left after the DE fallout..

189 ef, give me some concrete examples of what SoCons want to do. Ficons want to shrink government. What do Socons want? Also, there are perverse results coming out of well-intentioned "moral" laws....for example, I have lived in a country with two-party divorce (both parties must agree to it) and adultery laws. These are designed to "protect the family." Sounds great, until you get married to a crazy person who refuses to agree to a divorce. Then you are trapped. You separate and find a new partner.....boom you can get hit with adultery. So the crazy ass of a spouse gets all kinds of weapons. You cannot legislate love. Stop trying.

190 #157  Seriously I'm curious about the claims of DNA alteration and cancer from going in those machines.

Why, unless those machines are powered by plutonium?  Just for a point of reference, your body is beset by all kinds of mutagenic/carcinogenic compounds every single day.  Vehicle exhaust?  Filled with PAH (Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons).  PAHs are ubiquitous, they are in virtually everything you drink or eat, given that PAHs such as benzopyrene are products of incompletely combustion reactions.  Sunlight?  Known carcinogen - if you are out in the sun long enough, you will get some form of skin cancer, benign or malignant.

Why aren't we all dead from cancer yet?  Well, our cells are quite efficient at repairing DNA damage and maintaining genomic integrity during cell division.  We have about 15 or 16 different DNA polymerases (enzymes responsible for cell division) in our cells, and a sizable percentage of them (the main ones) have a replicative fidelity of 10^15 or 10^20, that is, only one base out of 10^15 or 10^20 is changed during cell replication. 

Remember cancer arises from a number of genetic and environmental factors, so unless you have some evidence that these body scanners are emitting much more radiation than normal background, don't worry about them potentially mutating your DNA and causing cancer.

That being said, we should ditch the scanners and approach airport security in the same manner the Israelis do.

191 183: If the government is not allowed

Granted, of course, it's two sided.  But consider the 'is not allowed' part.  Was it allowed to do the many things we have serious problems with?  By what means was it allowed or constrained?  It's arguable that we're simply here because nobody enforced the existing limitations.

There is only one constraint on government.  I don't see anyone ready to use it yet, so we muddle along trying to avoid the subject as best we can.

As a final note, restraining 'them' is not a means to avoid restraining yourself.  It only works if you do both.  We've forgotten that, and until it is restored as the proper norm, the downward spiral will continue.

192 The Catholic Church owns a lot of hospitals and does not have a unified voice with regards to Obamacare. I was just at a function (Divine Mercy Care gala) and it was clear that the Catholic medical professionals were not on the same page as the Catholic hospital administrators. If I were to put a priest from the Arlington diocese, Dr. Anderson, and someone from a Catholic hospital behind a confessional, you would be hard pressed to say they were representing the same organization.

193 Actually the reverse is more nearly true, one can't Lisa a nepotist, statist, RINO but it might hurt her feelings, about Castle the fact that he so cavalierly entertained the cap n trade scam, and unlike the Norwegian Blue it's not dead yet, or chose to
proscribe the 1st Amendment right of Free Association, it's just not done.

194


But gay people having civil unions? or masturbation?Who is that harming so badly that the government must marshal its powers to stop it.

Perfect example of the problems on this blog between Socons and socially liberal fiscal conservatives.

195 For all you naysayer's doubting the ability of GM to perform, it's trading at 35 1/8, well above the release price of 33. The reason for such stellar performance must be credited to both the unions and the anticipated sales of Chevrolet Volt. Posted by: Fish the Impaler at November 18, 2010 10:05 AM

The current GM "trading price" is based on the same bullshit that keeps the market at near double its realistic level. People who know suckers can be fleeced push the prices up and up, with no rhyme or reason behind the "value."

Since each Volt will be sold at a loss -- or sold to someone who buys it with gubmint (our) money, it's the kind of business model that is doomed to failure.

GM needs to get back into the business of building good cars and selling them at realistic prices. Ford has managed to do it; it's not rocket science.

In six months, GM shares will be below 30, as the enormity of the problems facing to company sink in.

196 A young naive girl says something about masturbation being immoral and then when she is older runs for office. The left screams, "She wants to outlaw masturbation!" and you bunch of dummies drop your cocks and your copy of your favorite p@rn mag long enough to panic over SOCONS! No one is going to outlaw you touching your willie you nitwits.
Really, perhaps the dumbest non-issue panic ever. Get it through your dirty minds- Socons may want you to be converted but they are not the Theocrats of the Lib nightmares.

197

It taught males that they didn't have to care for their offspring, and it taught females that they didn't have to be judicious in selecting their mates. It created generations of criminals and parasites which we are still dealing with today

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 18, 2010 10:19 AM (/G5LI)

Exactly.  And it appears that it also acclimated most Americans to the idea that it is our duty to allow just that.  It seems that we're just going to keep paying those vermin to breed and multiply until they swamp us with sheer numbers.  Maybe that's why the Left loves the DDT ban - so that a return of malaria and dengue can take care of the problem they refuse to address.  They've already admitted that they like abortion because it helps thin the ranks of the poor.

198

I stick by my comment whether Demint said it or not what was atributed to him is backwards. You can't assure social conservatism unless you first get your fiscal house in order. If you are living on the street you have no power to even defend or provide the basics in life.

Posted by: robtr at November 18, 2010 10:23 AM (hVDig)

The notion that your should have your fiscal house in order is based on morality. You know, that ole "Thou shalt not steal" thing.

199

 Beck is saying they want to control our blackberries now, by scrambling them so we can't use them in certain places at certain times?  What are they kidding, he had some guy talking about "bad behavior"????  What?   Isn't being American having the right to do whatever you want as long as you don't violate someone else's right to do the same?   Now the government is behaving like my dad?

I believe he's quoting Ray LaHood (no man has been more aptly named) who wants to scramble everyone's cell phone while a car is in operation for our own good.

200 A repost for all!

The holidays are coming, so I am looking for the morons to be a little more cheerful.

This should help.  How would you like this welcome home?

http://tinyurl.com/29rrcdb

201 When was Trotsky ousted from Russia? And why did he choose territory along the AZ border for hiding?

Posted by: maverick muse at November 18, 2010 10:20 AM (H+LJc)

He fled as Stalin was taking over to avoid being killed. He figured Mexico was far enough off. Guess again.

202

I believe he's quoting Ray LaHood (no man has been more aptly named) who wants to scramble everyone's cell phone while a car is in operation for our own good.

Posted by: Progs Are Teh Suk at November 18, 2010 10:32 AM (a3Z62)

Yep - the standard pattern.  Everything the Libtards want, they justify by saying it's all for our own good.  Well, the damn do-gooders can go pound sand.  This over-regulation of day to day life leads to nothing but lawlessness, as people start to realize that the law is synonymous with oppression and go out of their way to transgress against it.  Authoritarianism follows, as the do-gooders seek to conform us to their will. 

203 GM needs to get back into the business of building good cars and selling them at realistic prices.

GM needs to be dismantled so we can get our money back by selling off its assets.

204 Not sure if you guys have got to it yet this morn, but Ron Paul is introducing the American Traveler Dignity Act.  Bring the popcorn.  I want these TSA facists, and I use that term purposely, taken down.

205 But gay people having civil unions? or masturbation?Who is that harming so badly that the government must marshal its powers to stop it.

If the left were willing to accept civil unions and not need to push for gay marriage that argument would be over already.  As to masturbation thats just a straw man since I've not seen even where COD wanted it banned by govt force.

206 That being said, we should ditch the scanners and approach airport security in the same manner the Israelis do.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 18, 2010 10:27 AM (9hSKh)

I agree with you on that.  the Israelis have a very efficient system but people say it can't be done in a country as large as our country. 

as regards my friend.  I think what upset him the most is that he can't get any answers.  It seems to him that no one has done any studies on this machine, no  one has vetted the machine so to speak.  Since he was a chem major in college I think it's bothering him that there isn't ready research for him to read and refer to and he doesn't understand why.   He claims medical machines are tested thoroughly and he puts this in the medical machine category.  Don't forget we were hearing all of this from a very drunk person but oddly enough his thought processes seemed sound.

207 Liberals demand free stuff (confiscated from others) for "the poor."

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 18, 2010 10:09 AM (A/iZj)

Liberals demand money for the "poor" confiscated from others. They keep most of it, and give a little to the "poor"

208 19
This is such a warm and fuzzy day.  GM's IPO will be released, and we members of the great unwashed will be repaid in full,  partially paid, not paid but rammed up the ass with a 1951 Chevrolet hood ornament.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at November 18, 2010 08:08 AM (v1gw3)

And don't forget the UNCONSTITUTIONAL transfer of wealth, from the Origional GM stockholders, to other debtors.  The Government took their property without Just compensation... and will now SELL that property in this IPO.

209 "It's arguable that we're simply here because nobody enforced the existing limitations." Yes, most likely. @kidney, its also hard for those with religious beliefs not to use those beliefs as a guide for how to vote, be a leader, etc. Maybe I am really just saying that we could be more tactful now, work on getting our Ficon rep back, which we did lose, and especially work on getting the right judges in, where we all will be happy.

210 "In all seriousness, nothing is wrong with internal debate,"

Yup, it's what I like most about politics. But not on message boards like this (except rarely). Try to have a rational, multi-front conversation about the various merits of the candidates and you never make it more than 5 posts before people start "Ron Paulll!!!-ing" the thread with their pat put-downs and tired old distractions.

211 206: One more piece of paper to be ignored or twisted.

How about an 'American Restoration Through Mass Repeal Act'?  Pile 'em in and shovel 'em out, take the fig leaves and raze the bureaucracies.

Oh, and time to start removing all these protections we give folks for 'doing their jobs'.  There is only one accountability tyrants fear, and it is not the ballot box.

212

For all you naysayer's doubting the ability of GM to perform, it's trading at 35 1/8, well above the release price of 33.

Sweet! we're only losing $18.00 per share! Outfuckingstanding

213 Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 18, 2010 10:37 AM (tf9Ne)

My gay friends are perfectly fine with civil unions.  They seriously don't see the need for "gay marriage" and they say that if anyone cared to poll them this is what they would find out.  they often talk about "who are these people that want gay marriage?" and they say things like "these are the people ruining it for the rest of us".   I see their point, being gay is not such a big deal, they want to live a nice quiet productive life and if they choose to have a lifelong partner they want to make sure that partner can legally be a part of every aspect of their life.  what they don't want is some "activist idiots, who insist up language or as my one friend puts it "their pound of flesh" making people dislike the gay population as a whole after they "have made so many strides in having people understand us"....

I can so see what he means.  I cringe sometimes when my mom tells me NOW stories and how they pushed the envelope too much when regular women were happy with things as they were going and quietly fighting the little glass ceiling battles on their own.

214 Oldcat--That does seem to be more accurate.  Certainly neither their demands about "the poor" nor their confiscation of wealth/labor are about "justice."

215 "If the left were willing to accept civil unions and not need to push for gay marriage that argument would be over already. As to masturbation thats just a straw man since I've not seen even where COD wanted it banned by govt force." I agree that the left pushes the gay marriage hard, and I fear they will use that to force Christian churches to conform to it, or be hit with hate speech. My point would be to do all civil unions and get married in church instead. COD just needs to talk about masturbation, and I get worried. I can only imagine what independents think about that. I know a lot of Christians who are fine folks and don't push their beliefs....but there are always a few who think banning porn would help the family, or whatever.

216 Hey, I agree, we should repeal massive amounts of laws already on the books, most of them put there to please some special interest.  Secondly, I really don't know that Mussolini treated his citizens the way these TSA bastards do.

217

And don't forget the UNCONSTITUTIONAL transfer of wealth, from the Origional GM stockholders, to other debtors.  The Government took their property without Just compensation... and will now SELL that property in this IPO.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 18, 2010 10:40 AM (AdK6a)

I always wondered where are the shareholder lawsuits?   Was it so legally open and shut, that there was no platform for any suits at all.  People lost a lot of money and those same people are calling talk radio and on the television saying "why would you buy this?  Look what they did to us, remember it, it's going to happen to you too"....

what I find fascinating is the 1% that went to China and the fact that individual investors could not buy this IPO.

218 #209 Liberals demand money for the "poor" confiscated from others. They keep most of it, and give a little to the "poor"

Very apt description.  Liberals are the world's worst middlemen, yet they still feel holier than thou. 

219

Read post #150. The example you cite is best labeled as as overextension usually seen coming from a Leftist, not a conservative. But to many, including many here, it is useful to deride this as being a symptom of "social conservatism". It isn't. A power grab is just that.

I'm not saying it's a symptom of social conservatism, I am saying it was done by several social conservatives including Bush and those in the congress.

 

Again with the label. At times Bush claimed to be a "social conservative". But the drug bill was clearly not an example of social conservative. And Mike Castle voted for the ludicrous Cap and Trade bill. And yet, many here chose to continue to bill him as a fiscal conservative.

 

When a fiscal conservative spends money on stupid things, we look at the examples where he/she/it does show restraint, and we maintain that he/she/it is a fiscal conservative.

When a social conservative engages in an egregious abuse of governmental power and funds, the label of social conservative is maintained, and the intimation is why do social conservatives do such things? 

 

Isn't this fun?

220

I have a novel solution to the TSA mess:

Start executing terrorists. If you are caught trying to blow up a plane (or plotting to), you will be executed within 30 days after being not very gently interrogated (by somebody who likes the Jack Bauer Method) to see if there is anyone else involved, so we can find them and execute them too.

The reason we have this problem is because we've subscribed to the misguided leftist notion that terrorists are just like us and need a hug and then everybody will love each other and there will be Skittles and rainbows if only we do that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but fuck that nonsense, and the people who promote it.

221 COD just needs to talk about masturbation, and I get worried. I can only imagine what independents think about that. I know a lot of Christians who are fine folks and don't push their beliefs....but there are always a few who think banning porn would help the family, or whatever.

Posted by: sexypig

 

Take one moment to examine the state of our economy, our national security and our borders. If independents and 'fine folks' consider O'Donnell's commnets on masturbation to be a priority, and not say, an opponent who jacked up taxes three times and still had a deficit, then I really don't give a tinker's damn for their opinion. You will not reach them. Ask yourself or them this: If you think that O'Donnell is making too much of this topic, what in Satan's Unholy name do you think that you're doing?

222 I agree that the left pushes the gay marriage hard, and I fear they will use that to force Christian churches to conform to it, or be hit with hate speech.

I'm pretty sure that's why they push it so hard.  They "care" about gay people as much as they care about "the poor"--"gay issues" are just another way for them to control/reduce/remove non-state organizations.

223 A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him.

You make that sound bad. What's the alternative? Kill everybody?
I mean somebody's got to die right?

224

Very apt description.  Liberals are the world's worst middlemen, yet they still feel holier than thou. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at November 18, 2010 10:48 AM (9hSKh)

"worst" depends on who is defining the term. From the Liberals point of view its pretty sweet.

And you can almost define liberalism as having the smugness for being a do-gooder without ever having actually done any good.

225 but there are always a few who think banning porn would help the family, or whatever.

So you'd have no problems if your next-door neighbor turned his house into a porn store, or porn being broadcast on Saturday mornings on network TV?  If you don't accept either of those things, then you are using the government to push your social views upon society and you aren't a libertarian.  The question is merely of degree.

But that's neither here nor there.  I've never seen a national social conservative politician within the last thirty years who advocated 'banning' pornography, and I'm pretty certain the media would have made sure to tell me all about him.

226 Got to go into town and take care of some business folks. Also have some work to do in getting ready for a "yard sale" Saturday. I may or may not be back later.

I'll leave this parting shot because its something we ALL need to keep in mind.

We can disagree on who is a conservative and who is a liberal. We can disagree on religion. We can just about disagree on everything. 

But after all of that there is no reason to call each other names like "liar", or even worse obscene ones. There is no need to start flame wars.

Just state your opinion, remember it IS an opinion in 99% of the cases when talking about politics or religion, and leave it at that.

227 Here's some change we can all believe in.

(Those teeth!)

228

Again with the label. At times Bush claimed to be a "social conservative". But the drug bill was clearly not an example of social conservative. And Mike Castle voted for the ludicrous Cap and Trade bill. And yet, many here chose to continue to bill him as a fiscal conservative.

Hmmm I don't know of anyone who claimed Mike Castle was a fiscal conservative. Everyone agreed he was a squish, some wanted him because they thought he could get elected and would be better than coons. I didn't see anyone talking up him being a conservative in any way. By the same token I don't know anyone but you that would say Bush isn't a socon.

Maybe I don't know what a socon is, you seem to be saying the same thing I am. You can't be a socon without being fiscally conservative.

Heh, so you agree with me then.

229 "When a social conservative engages in an egregious abuse of governmental power and funds, the label of social conservative is maintained, and the intimation is why do social conservatives do such things?" Oh, so once we find out you don't walk the walk, we remove the label? So Mark Sanford is just not a so-con anymore, let's move on? Or does he become a liberal from his actions? I don't think so either. If a fiscal conservative spends like a drunken sailor, then they get the same treatment. I think Bush got away with it because the economy was doing great until the very end. That hides a lot fiscal sins. He got hammered for the bail outs...saving capitalism by giving up principles...you think he got a pass on that? He was already done by then, so yeah, no need to kick a dead dog.

230

Isn't this fun?

Posted by: Blue Hen © at November 18, 2010 10:49 AM (R2fpr)

yeah - at least back in the days when it was the Cavaliers versus the Roundheads or the Crips versus the Bloods we didn't have to pretend the groups meant anything more than Us and Them.

231 So do these scanners count as free health care check ups too as they practically do a breast and nut sack exam plus you get an xray?

232 Oh, so once we find out you don't walk the walk, we remove the label? So Mark Sanford is just not a so-con anymore, let's move on? Or does he become a liberal from his actions? I don't think so either.

If labels don't have any meaning, what good are they?

233

The reason we have this problem is because we've subscribed to the misguided leftist notion that terrorists are just like us and need a hug and then everybody will love each other and there will be Skittles and rainbows if only we do that.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but fuck that nonsense, and the people who promote it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at November 18, 2010 10:50 AM (3jxR/)

Amen.  Naturally I don't want to see American citizens tortured, but as for foreign terrorists, let them suffer.  They'll get no pity from me.  It will serve as a fine warning to the others.  Further, we should make it a policy to kill off their family members whenever possible.  That gets peoples' attention.

234 If a fiscal conservative spends like a drunken sailor, then they get the same treatment.

No, they don't.  They get excuses.

Exhibit A:  Mitt Romney, Fiscal Conservative's wet dream, who voted in micro-ObamaCare.

235 "Take one moment to examine the state of our economy, our national security and our borders. If independents and 'fine folks' consider O'Donnell's commnets on masturbation to be a priority, and not say, an opponent who jacked up taxes three times and still had a deficit, then I really don't give a tinker's damn for their opinion. You will not reach them. Ask yourself or them this: If you think that O'Donnell is making too much of this topic, what in Satan's Unholy name do you think that you're doing?" What am I doing? I am considering that if I vote for this person, they are going to turn around and prioritize banning porn, or getting prayer in school, or stopping the gheys, that's what I am doing. But since you think its cool, will you be voting for a pro-choice candidate who is fiscally sound versus a pro-life candidate who is not? Be honest.

236 These airline pashsengers are very sexual, very toite.

237  So do these scanners count as free health care check ups too as they practically do a breast and nut sack exam plus you get an xray?

Posted by: CDR M at November 18, 2010 10:57 AM (y67bA)

They are taking the place of the death panels, you reduce the  population by radiation poisoning and get rid of the big carbon foot print jet flyers at the same time. It's a win win

238 "Exhibit A: Mitt Romney, Fiscal Conservative's wet dream, who voted in micro-ObamaCare." Yeah, he get's a pass...oh, wait, everyone now says he is no longer viable because he of Romneycare...so he does not get a pass does he? I would vote for him if he admitted it was a policy that failed. Actually, the fact that they tried it and it failed, is very useful to know. If you see a failed experiment, you don't blame the person who tried it. But if someone repeats on a huge scale, then they must be crazy.

239 So-cons didn't start the fire....the commies did.  So-cons are simply defenders of American traditions and institutions. 

In my view, they had no choice but to create a bloc to do battle with the leftist propaganda in our schools, etc.

Where would America be without its churches, charities, its faith-based beliefs that we endowed by our creator, with certain inalienable rights?

Communism thrives without a faith-based population.

240

Another observation. Within the Catholic Church, many of the intelligenstia have differentiated between 'social justice' and social conservatives'. There much much complaint about 'shrill, hostile, confrontational' criticism when Obama was elected. Catholics who voted for Obama claimed that their vote was justified because social justice issues were part of a "seamless garment" of issues. Those who questioned this were accused of "cherry-picking issues". Those who cheered on "peace activist" Cindy Sheehan were portrayed as being "guided by love".

 

 Other snide comments were made about social conservatives living up to their complaints by helping the beautiful people opposing the death penalty.

 

See a comparison here? "Social conservative" is:

1.leftists have a better understanding of a true social conservative than most conservatives

2. Are despised by Leftists as well as you, but for different reasons.

241 @kidney, its also hard for those with religious beliefs not to use those beliefs as a guide for how to vote, be a leader, etc.

Strike out the modifier, "religious" and you see how ridiculous that statement is. Of course your beliefs guide you. The problem is that you are ascribing beliefs to people that simply do not exist. I defy you to find an example where anyone for any reason has proposed using the government to outlaw masturbation.

242 robt, You can't assure social conservatism unless you first get your fiscal house in order.

That's true enough.

But given our nation's current economic circumstances, fiscal order can't occur without the elimination of socialist programs.

Pervasive federal authoritarianism that already owns your children's minds and your workplace, now literally reaches into your crotch.

"Social conservatism" may as well represent anti-socialism and minimalist government intervention as much else.

Constitutional conservatism terminates the invasive and abusive government propaganda mandates that now direct church organizations, civic organizations, schools, airwaves, your work, home, life.

Liberty remaining partial to justice for all equal under the law, the Libertarian ideal neither condones nor supports any dogma including the abuses of socialist liberalism. It's as irritating for social liberals to flaunt the word libertarian as if to define themselves as it is to hear Huckabee flaunt the word conservative to define his socialist "good for you" big government via "social conservatism".

243 BTW, Phelps isn't a Christian but has created his own wacko religion--kind of like Mohamed.

244 What am I doing? I am considering that if I vote for this person, they are going to turn around and prioritize banning porn, or getting prayer in school, or stopping the gheys, that's what I am doing.

But since you think its cool, will you be voting for a pro-choice candidate who is fiscally sound versus a pro-life candidate who is not?

Be honest.

Posted by: sexypig

 

1. I have not only voted for  pro-abortion candidates, I have worked for several. That includes voting for Mike Castle, the greatest fiscal con "IN THE WORLD"

2. You have absolutely no proof that O'Donnell would have made those a priority. You instead were "pro-choice"; you chose to create the strawman and acted accordingly.

3. But since you think its cool  This assertion has no basis in fact, and yet you chose to make it. That's very telling.

245
I would vote for him if he admitted it was a policy that failed. Actually, the fact that they tried it and it failed, is very useful to know. If you see a failed experiment, you don't blame the person who tried it. But if someone repeats on a huge scale, then they must be crazy.

This whole paragraph is a justification of why you would still support him even after he signed off on that horrible bill.  Living in the state which employs his failed experiment, let me tell you it sucks to watch your premiums skyrocket.

My guess is you wouldn't afford Huckabee the same courtesy of merely saying, 'he was wrong' about his thousand pardons and practices in office.

246 "So you'd have no problems if your next-door neighbor turned his house into a porn store, or porn being broadcast on Saturday mornings on network TV? If you don't accept either of those things, then you are using the government to push your social views upon society and you aren't a libertarian. The question is merely of degree." Very good points. Let me think on this. Seriously. I am libertarian-leaning, but your examples remind me there are crazies on my side too. Heroin for all! I would have to say that since those actions might harm others, especially children I could see action. However, I do not see how allowing gays to have civil unions, or serving in the military would harm others. Oh, military unit cohesion, might let me allow you to hold off on that for a while. Again, maybe its nothing, but what are the plans of the socons? I may be reliving the 1980's and times have changed...any socon here who could fill me in? p.s. I probably would have voted for COD - a little crazy isn't a big deal. It can even be fun.

247 Oh, so once we find out you don't walk the walk, we remove the label? So Mark Sanford is just not a so-con anymore, let's move on? Or does he become a liberal from his actions? I don't think so either.

If a fiscal conservative spends like a drunken sailor, then they get the same treatment. I think Bush got away with it because the economy was doing great until the very end. That hides a lot fiscal sins. He got hammered for the bail outs...saving capitalism by giving up principles...you think he got a pass on that? He was already done by then, so yeah, no need to kick a dead dog.

Posted by: sexypig

 

This is demonstrably false. Bush was criticised then and now when he did things such as the drug bill. Try reading Robtr's claim; that bill was not an example of social or fiscal conservatism. it was wrong.

Again, to use Castle as an example, there is not way to square cap and trade as being fiscally responsible. And yet he was still touted as being one. And when compared to Chris Coons, he was.

248

Posted by: sexypig at November 18, 2010 11:03 AM (SXn93)

I"m on the Romneywatch.  I believe he will take the route of the underlying idea, actually a conservative accountability idea, was larded up via overridden amendments and post-Romney amendments.

I actually agree that since we aren't going to let people die at the hospital door (so to speak), it's legitimate, at the state level, to force people to have health insurance if they can afford it by taxing them if they refuse to get some.  But this is different from then rigging the health insurance markets in other ways, or in doing anything on a national/federal level.

249 The problem is that you are ascribing beliefs to people that simply do not exist.

...aaaaaand the truth of the objection comes out in the open.

250

Again, maybe its nothing, but what are the plans of the socons? I may be reliving the 1980's and times have changed...any socon here who could fill me in?

Last I heard, they were trying to win some elections and slow down the grip of the government on our lives. Which is supposedly what the fiscal cons want, too. But I keep hearing from Blue State Republicans that Tea Partiers are socons, which is only partly true, and that socons are the real threat.

Socons may make you feel all icky inside, but they actually have some political power. Blue State Republicans have none. Until we win some elections on our turf, we aren't really in a position to be making demands.

251 "This whole paragraph is a justification of why you would still support him even after he signed off on that horrible bill. Living in the state which employs his failed experiment, let me tell you it sucks to watch your premiums skyrocket." I won't support him now. And if he just casually said "oops" I wouldn't support him either. If he used his experience with this bill to go after Obamacare, then I would be more likely to consider supporting him. You know Phil Breedsen (sp?) started a program called Tenncare and then stopped it because it wasn't working. That impresses me. How many pols would do that? Romney can't admit an error on Romneycare says something to me. Huckabee...I forget why I didn't like him. He pardons people based on his honest Christian value of forgiveness...it's a little understandable.

252 251-
Enlighten us

253 Blue Hen, Catholics who voted for Obama claimed that their vote was justified because social justice issues were part of a "seamless garment" of issues.

All in a day's work, those "social justice" Catholics may as well admit the cause has been seamlessly usurped by Marxists in self-righteous guises including Liberation Theology wearing the garment just as wolves in sheepskin.

254 "who voted in micro-ObamaCare."

Bevel.you live in MA, right? When on earth did Romney "vote in micro-Obama-care". He vetoed it more than a dozen times and spent two or three years fighting it (with virtually no allies). The stupid people he was elected to serve (many my neighbors) were demanding that he "fix" the problem of people being sick.

255

There was a pilot on Fox last night who is suing the TSA on 4th amendment grounds. He made a pretty good case that the pat down gropings are pretty much illegal. I am somewhat sceptical because the government could make the case that you don't need to fly.

Posted by: robtr


This is where the lawyers come into play.

The inconstitutional conditions doctrine says that the govt cannot condition your right to even a fully discretionary benefit on the relinquishment of a constitutional right.  I think we all recognize that not having strangers pull your crank is a constitutional right (at least ones in a uniform that you don't want to be doing it). 

It doesn't matter (in fact it makes it worse for them) that you're going to a flight.  The gov't is not a private carrier, so you're giving up your fourth amendment rights to essentially walk down a hallway.  Shit, Under Terry v Ohio (I think) the cops can't even pat you down on the street without reasonable suspicion.  Just standing in an airport is not reasonable suspicion.

I'm thinking it survives a motion to dismiss for certain, and this very quickly comes to an end.

256 So it's fiscally (and otherwise) conservative to let selfish citizens mooch on hospitals, etc., by not compelling them to get health insurance coverage?

257 Anyone who thinks I like Castle is wrong. Screw him. Is anyone really saying he's fiscally conservative? I am not. "Last I heard, they were trying to win some elections and slow down the grip of the government on our lives. Which is supposedly what the fiscal cons want, too. But I keep hearing from Blue State Republicans that Tea Partiers are socons, which is only partly true, and that socons are the real threat." No, dude. Last I heard, Jim Demint says I have to believe in Big God and that you have to be a socon to count as a ficon...you let me know he's wrong, and we can go back to winning elections. p.s. we are lucky the Dems are so abhorrent that we have the luxury of this argument.

258 As a general argument about socon vs ficon.

All politicians will have beliefs/opinions I disagree with. I look at the how likely will they be able to pass the ones I hate vs the ones where we agree.

If the result is like Castle vs COD, his ability (by jumping the isle) to to pass crap I disagreed with was much higher than CODs ability to pass her crap I disagreed with.

259 Pam, what US legislated "faith based" research are you espousing?

Communism thrives without a faith-based population.
Posted by: pam

"Faith" is not a Christian monopoly. Communists exercise as much faith in their belief system as anyone else. Otherwise, it couldn't take hold anywhere.

260 kidney, the question I have is thus:  Is your problem with what you perceive to be the SoCon agenda, or with what you perceive to be the source of their belief system?

This is not entirely meant as a critical question.  Sometimes we just have to be honest about why we break the way we do on issues.

261 Blue Hen, Catholics who voted for Obama claimed that their vote was justified because social justice issues were part of a "seamless garment" of issues.

All in a day's work, those "social justice" Catholics may as well admit the cause has been seamlessly usurped by Marxists in self-righteous guises including Liberation Theology wearing the garment just as wolves in sheepskin.

Posted by: maverick muse

 

Bingo. My favorite gag was the "root causes of terrorism".

262 So it's fiscally (and otherwise) conservative to let selfish citizens mooch on hospitals, etc., by not compelling them to get health insurance coverage?

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 18, 2010 11:24 AM (bN5ZU)

You can refuse treatment.  But saying you will jail noncompliers, and shoot them if they resist arrest for that crime is what you are really agreeing to here. And that argument works for anything you care to name. Smoking, drinking, fatty foods, voting Republican...

263 Bevel.you live in MA, right? When on earth did Romney "vote in micro-Obama-care".

He ultimately signed it, and then made it the cornerstone of his campaign in 2008.  So it's a bit disingenuous for him to claim "it's as good as we could do in MA" when he was touting it as his major accomplishment.

264

Anyone who thinks I like Castle is wrong. Screw him. Is anyone really saying he's fiscally conservative? I am not.

 

Actually, sevral on this blog maintained exactly that.

"Last I heard, they were trying to win some elections and slow down the grip of the government on our lives. Which is supposedly what the fiscal cons want, too. But I keep hearing from Blue State Republicans that Tea Partiers are socons, which is only partly true, and that socons are the real threat."

No, dude. Last I heard, Jim Demint says I have to believe in Big God and that you have to be a socon to count as a ficon...you let me know he's wrong, and we can go back to winning elections.

Again, you are repeating a shortened version of what DeMint said.

p.s. we are lucky the Dems are so abhorrent that we have the luxury of this argument.

Actually, we are Americans, therefore this argument is not a luxury, but a right. As citizens, this is our duty.

265 Romneycare was an idea. If it worked, it would be great, ignoring the constitutional issue of forcing people to buy something, which is a not inconsequential objection to say the least. But it did not even work. The fact that he has not come out against Obamacare, says something...that he cannot admit that.

266 "Again, you are repeating a shortened version of what DeMint said." I read the link. I did not get it. You explain to me how someone like myself who wants a smaller government but is not interested in stopping gay civil unions is not fiscally conservative. Seriously, explain it to me as if I was a complete moron...after all I am on this site.

267

And you can almost define liberalism as having the smugness for being a do-gooder without ever having actually done any good.

Posted by: Oldcat at November 18, 2010 10:55 AM (CN+Qv)

 

Well said.

268

Newsweek: So you would say the structure you put in place in Massachusetts—exchanges, subsidies, and an individual mandate—is essentially a conservative structure?

Mitt Romney: What I'm saying is that the right place for health reform is at the state level. In a federalist system we don't need the federal government imposing its will on the individual states. The federalist, conservative approach is for states to solve their problems as they feel best. We solved it in a way that worked in our state on a bipartisan basis. Out of 200 legislators, only two voted no. And other states can solve it in the way that they feel best.

269 I would like to see "social conservatives" come up with a list of things they think government can or should do to promote the SoCon Lifestyle©. It's an all-over-the-map thing, so far as I can see.

Some "conservatives" like Kathryn Jean Lopez are on constant watch lest Catholics not get their way. Does she think the Catholic Church should have greater say in how the country is run than, say, Presbyterians or Joooos? I don't know, but I see hints in her commentaries that she does.

Same goes for the "gheys in teh military" people, and those who vehemently oppose gay "marriage." IMO, the military should set its own rules on behavior, without civilian interference of any kind, and churches should have the right to marry -- or not marry -- people as they choose.

I dislike any laws governing social behavior. They are the tip of the iceberg. If groups that are anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-anything are allowed to enact their beliefs into law, where is the stopping point?

Laws are meant to protect people from harm. They are not meant to force behavior to please vocal pressure groups.

270 The game of dueling RomneyCare quotes

From OnTheIssues.org:

Q: What should we do with all the millions of people who are not insured?

A: Well, I actually got the job done. Working with people across the aisle, we said: Enough is enough...We allowed individuals to buy their own policies. Those that couldnÂ’t afford them, we helped them buy their policies. And you know what? It cost us no more money to help people buy insurance policies that they could afford than it was costing us before, handing out free care.

(The last part is total crap, by the way)

271 @MrScribbler: AMEN! SoCons, show me what you you want to do or don't want to do. Also, since you want me to vote for people who may not be 100% on what I believe in, which I am willing to do, how about you? Fiscal conservative but pro-choice, vs. pro-life Democrat....how do you vote on that one?

272 Fiscal conservative but pro-choice, vs. pro-life Democrat....how do you vote on that one?

How about "Blue Dog" Dem versus "SoCon fiscal liberal" Republican?  How do YOU vote?

273 271I would like to see "social conservatives" come up with a list of things they think government can or should do to promote the SoCon Lifestyle©.

Ooh, I'll field this one. It's mind numbingly easy, and you'll facepalm when you see it because it's so obvious.

Get government out of the business of picking winners and losers in society and let the marketplace of ideas handle the rest.

Oh, and that's 'traditionalist conservative' to you.  Unless you were thinking of those 'traditionalist liberals' that get mislabeled all the time, like Huckabee or W. were...

274

No, dude. Last I heard, Jim Demint says I have to believe in Big God and that you have to be a socon to count as a ficon...you let me know he's wrong, and we can go back to winning elections.

So everybody has to stand by what Jim DeMint says, like he speaks for me? If he's wrong, he's wrong.

If you are willing to let the democrats win to spite him, maybe he's right.

275

Also, since you want me to vote for people who may not be 100% on what I believe in, which I am willing to do, how about you?

Fiscal conservative but pro-choice, vs. pro-life Democrat....how do you vote on that one?

Its not the socons who are jumping ship and running as third partiers. Its the establisment types.

There are no pro life Democrats. Straw Man.

276 SoCons, show me what you you want to do or don't want to do. Posted by: sexypig at November 18, 2010 11:45 AM

This is true for everything any friggin' politician says. We always hear candidates (whether first-timer or long-termed, pork-sucking hack) say we "need to clean up the mess in Washington." I want to hear them back up grandiose blather with real plans and policies.

People claim it would be "bad optics" for any candidate to deal with specifics before an election. Nonsense. It is the long-time practice of buying a pig in a poke that has saddled us with the most misguided, incompetent and wasteful government in the nation's history.

277 I'm not gonna do the "dueling with quotes" thing. There's plenty of real context out there. Playing around with soundbites is and snippets is useless. I 100% agree with Romney's vetoes and his stance that every State should do these things on their own.

278

I would like to see "social conservatives" come up with a list of things they think government can or should do to promote the SoCon Lifestyle©. It's an all-over-the-map thing, so far as I can see.

How about banning federal funding for embyonic stem cell research? You want to make them a commidity? DO it on your own dime; not the governments'

Some "conservatives" like Kathryn Jean Lopez are on constant watch lest Catholics not get their way. Does she think the Catholic Church should have greater say in how the country is run than, say, Presbyterians or Joooos? I don't know, but I see hints in her commentaries that she does.

We Papists are pesky like that. That's why we actively denigrate those other groups. Right?

Same goes for the "gheys in teh military" people, and those who vehemently oppose gay "marriage." IMO, the military should set its own rules on behavior, without civilian interference of any kind, and churches should have the right to marry -- or not marry -- people as they choose.

"Civilian interference"?  By that you're referring to groups that are demanding that Gays be admitted openly and that the definition of marriage be changed or re-invented without being honest enough to say so? And this means the number of people to be married and their ages are also no longer to be a consideratin?

I dislike any laws governing social behavior. They are the tip of the iceberg. If groups that are anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-anything are allowed to enact their beliefs into law, where is the stopping point?

Word. Next thing you know, they'll be outlawing slavery. Which as we all know, is settled law and was part of the constitution (Dred Scott; please answer the white courtesy phone). Or some "social conservative" will insist that a "pregnant" "woman" will have the gall to demand the same rights as a woman having a federally funded abortion. What gall.

Laws are meant to protect people from harm. They are not meant to force behavior to please vocal pressure groups.

Posted by: MrScribbler

Please define the word "person". Everyone else, stand back; cause this is where a constitutional republic meets reality.

279 I'm not gonna do the "dueling with quotes" thing. There's plenty of real context out there. Playing around with soundbites is and snippets is useless. I 100% agree with Romney's vetoes and his stance that every State should do these things on their own.

I agreed with his vetoes too.  I object to him signing off on the bill and then claiming it was anything but a steaming turd.

280 ParisParamus #258

Wake up. US citizens are stuck with their doctor/hospital bills and make an arranged payment schedule, vulnerable to debt collection agencies.

It is ILLEGAL ALIENS who get "free" medical care, bills never turned over to private debt collection agencies, serviced paid via higher costs for everyone including those US citizens who haven't health insurance.

We've been through emergency surgery and paid our hospital bills, thank God, without insurance that hadn't kicked in with the new employer.It took all our savings, and YEARS of monthly payments thereafter. But insurance waiting periods are not our fault any more than being born with a body organ that malfunctions. And that was while insurance was still being offered by employers in our industry, before the early 80s recession.

There are tons of NON-UNION trained, highly educated, highly skilled adults working with some approaching retirement in America whose income would be depleted all together in order to buy today's health insurance. That is not an exaggeration. The same problem applies to small businesses that would forfeit payment to workers in order to provide them with mandated health care. Barak Obama's admonition published in '60s Kenya for 100% of wages to be taken by government in order for government to provide the citizens' needs is pressing upon us. There's the Dreams of My Father that today's nuanced Potus is selling.

The '08 political argument was how to LOWER the costs of medical care, translated as how to lower the costs of health insurance, not how to increase costs while rationing services and imprisoning those who won't comply and confiscating property from those who can't financially comply.

281 I 100% agree with Romney's vetoes and his stance that every State should do these things on their own.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 18, 2010 11:53 AM (Z6Mgb)

Although I voted for Romney in the primary after he was toast, I don't follow him around and you seem to be more informed. So I will ask you - first, fairly or unfairly, his campaign was scuttled pretty easily last time. Is there any indication that Mitt has improved his political skills?  And second, is there a topic that Mitt believes in strongly enough to go for the jugular over?

I've seen lots of candidates drive to the 20 yard line and punt. Like McCain last time, Dole, Bush I when he lost. What is the thing that will make Mitt keep fighting all the way to the end?

282 People claim it would be "bad optics" for any candidate to deal with specifics before an election. Nonsense.
Posted by: MrScribbler

Amen

283 Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at November 18, 2010 11:48 AM

If all SoCons had such basic and sensible beliefs as you, there would be no problem at all.

Sadly, in the real world, we have to contend with the Pat Buchanans, Sean Hannitys and Michelle Malkins, none of whom will be happy until until everyone thinks, believes and lives exactly the way they do, and are willing to pass as many laws as necessary to make that happen.

284 #260..Mav....I have no idea what you are talking about "legislation for faith-based research"???

As I said....so-cons activists came about over the years in the act of DEFENDING American traditions and institutions from assaults from the commie-left. 

(And I used the word "faith" just as a short-cut....instead of naming Christians, Jews, etc.)

I don't consider the commie drive to steal your earnings, private property, healthcare, freedom to worship, and basic liberties....in anyway analogous  to faith in an unseen God.

285 285:  It ain't easy, agreed.  Frankly it drives me up the wall half the time.

For the moment, though, common cause.  We need to get this limiting of government and fiscal overhaul thing done, and like it or not, some of those folks you just mentioned are of like mind with us on those subjects.  We need all the help we can get right now; the rest we can hash out later.

Fighting in a burning house, yo.  Fighting in a burning house.

286 I dislike any laws governing social behavior. They are the tip of the iceberg. If groups that are anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-anything are allowed to enact their beliefs into law, where is the stopping point?

Posted by: MrScribbler

But Christians are already not allowed to form voluntary social groups in the public schools, wear their symbology, and so on, whereas other groups are -such as Muslims. Groups that claim to dislike laws governing social behavior should be disturbed, instead of looking around for creeping Popery.

Its not always that they are trying to gain ascendancy, but often are just trying to get equal treatment.

287 I dislike any laws governing social behavior. They are the tip of the iceberg. --McScribbler

Yes. Furthermore, whatever "intent" behind the passage of any law evolves into the most grotesque perversion to the point that "unintended consequence" doesn't even apply. Again, take "social justice" for instance, enforcing inequality in order to establish equality via "special" untouchable people to be favored above others. 

288 Sadly, in the real world, we have to contend with the Pat Buchanans, Sean Hannitys and Michelle Malkins, none of whom will be happy until until everyone thinks, believes and lives exactly the way they do, and are willing to pass as many laws as necessary to make that happen.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at November 18, 2010 12:00 PM (Ulu3i)

If you group them and us in a single entity, its not any of us that have the problem that needs to be solved.

289

Please define the word "person". Everyone else, stand back; cause this is where a constitutional republic meets reality.

Posted by: Blue Hen © at November 18, 2010 11:54 AM

You want to start an argument about abortion? I'm not gonna play. I have my own views, but since I am not directly involved with that issue on an individual basis, I consider that I have no right to impose my beliefs on others.

If you want to tie the things you believe to federal funding, no problem. The gubmint has no right to fund any business activities or social behavior of any kind. We are so hung-up on the notion that no research or manufacturing or anything else will happen if Congress doesn't spend taxpayer money to make it happen that the value of private enterprise has been forgotten.

290 Its not always that they are trying to gain ascendancy, but often are just trying to get equal treatment.

Trying to get "equal treatment" based upon a sense of superiority.

MLK wanted judgment by character.

Whereas, "social justice" means to turn the tables, aka reverse discrimination.

Recall the ideals of the French Revolution initially substantiated by Jefferson. From Monarchy to Empire. Contrast ideal with reality that "liberty" assassinated the monarchy and aristocrats before assassinating "counter revolutionaries" with the wrong sense of "equality" in all kinds of blood baths that had nothing to do with any sense of fraternity beyond Malor's jibe: "A heretic is someone who shares almost all your beliefs. Kill him."

291 MARK STEYN on Rush now.

292 pam

that coined phrase has legislated mandates

293 Mav...please forgive my ignorance, I still am not sure what you mean?  "that coined phrase has legislated mandates"

Sorry....can you be more specific?  Thanks!

294

Laws are meant to protect people from harm. They are not meant to force behavior to please vocal pressure groups.

Posted by: MrScribbler

 

I have my own views, but since I am not directly involved with that issue on an individual basis, I consider that I have no right to impose my beliefs on others.

You set a standard, and referred to people. Government is in the business of defining such icky things. Such as, when Blacks actually get to be defined as people.  You also used the word 'other'. What's an 'other'?

No one asked you about your personal views. I for one do not care. But the government does care; it cares because it has to. Telling a nine year old that they may not have sexual contact with a 50 year old is our collective "imposing beliefs on others'. Telling a property owner that his property is, in fact actually an 'other' and no longer property is also an imposition. 700,000 people died during that imposition.

295 @Bevel, so you essentially admit, you put SoCon first and Ficon second. Fair enough. Its your conscience and I wouldn't expect otherwise. @Darklord, that's pretty much what I would roll with. Hell, you put it more elegantly, too. @Oldcat, the original thread was about Jim Demint. Glad to know you think he's wrong. But wait, you think I want the Democrats to win to spite him? No. I like him. Just don't say I have to be a SoCon to be a FiCon. How hard is that? This has been an awesome thread - hope some air was cleared. I'd rather disagree and argue with you guys than Libs any day.

296 "Murkowski calls write-in victory 'our miracle'"
Miracles come from God.....not people.

297 #293: Steyn is on fire with this TSA stuff. It's exactly his kind of material.

298

Laws are meant to protect people from harm. They are not meant to force behavior to please vocal pressure groups.

Sort of like how the West has regarded marriage as between a man and woman from time immemorial up until about 10 years ago? And to start the "slippery slope" argument again, if "marriage" between two men or two women is allowed, why not 3 or more? Of the gender or species of your choice?

I don;t give a crap about who you "ove". Love has nothing to do with it. Get your civil union, head over to Folsom St to celebrate, and moe on. 

299 And PIMF, dammit. I never learn.

300 Yes Luca....the commies begin their liberal assaults on American (Western) institutions and traditions  thru legislation and the courts. (marriage, abortion, sex education,porn...that were all working fine until THEY wanted them liberalized)

So-cons defend, and somehow they are the bad guys??

No, this is a myth created by the MSM/DNC/Hollywood/Academia war room..that somehow these crazy religious people want a theocracy.

And it works, just like the propaganda that Republicans are racists has worked over the years.

I am surprised some on this blog do not see it, too young maybe.

I guess when they get their wish, and socons are banished from government, they may think again when they are called before some hate-crime tribunal for what they said or wrote "against" gays. (as in Canada and the UK)

Talk about slippery slope!

301 @Bevel, so you essentially admit, you put SoCon first and Ficon second. Fair enough. Its your conscience and I wouldn't expect otherwise.

I didn't admit that at all.  What I did was put the same question back at you with the fiscal question instead.

A Democrat will always be liberal.  If Bart Stupak proved anything, it's that there is no such thing as a pro-Life Democrat.

But as to the question of what I value, it is this:  the Republican party platform is the whole enchilada - Social issues, fiscal issues, and defense issues.  That's what I subscribe to.

Fiscal conservatives frequently don't, and worse, they have a tendency to believe if we would just jettison the social issues, we'd start getting mass appeal.  The media would like us, young people would vote for us, and suddenly the Democrats would be vanquished.

That isn't true.  Fiscal Conservative ultra-libs get torn to shreds in blue states with the same aplomb as Social Conservatives, because the people in blue states want the cronyism, corruption, and big government.  The congressional election in MA in 2010 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

302

That "heretic" definition is the creed of the subGenius religion, and I'm surprised that no practitioners thereof are regulars here. Information about the organization, or lack thereof, is available via search engine, such as http://tinyurl.com/bgbbj

 

303 <a href="http://www.onlineusb.net">wholesale usb </a>Let us always meet each other with a smile,for the smile is the beginning of love,<a href="http://www.usb-disk.com">wholesale usb flash drives</a>and once we begin to love each other naturally we want to do something.
<a href="http://www.topusbdrive.com">Branded usb drive </a>

304 Whenever you launch a business, you most likely have visions of enormous achievement. At the same time, it could be problematic to program for it after you are sitting in your house workplace or storage and just finding commenced. Regrettably, it is when lots of from the most significant measures are required to become taken. A single is selecting a effect to find your services or products.

305 Slot1 flash card R4 ¨¨ una flash card DS porta. porta S1 ha le caratteristiche della scheda flash mainstream: nessuna macchina pennello, built-in funzione di guida, possono portare flash card GBA e la fine del supporto dinamico patch giocando funzione CleanROM ¨¨ facile da usare.
Come un flash card precoce, R4 standard massimo sostegno da 4 GB TF card. Standard non supporta SDHC TF, questo ¨¨ dispiaciuto. Tuttavia, un ampio gruppo di utenti R4, sono le risorse pi¨´ rilevanti. Archivio gioco R4 ¨¨ memorizzato direttamente alla carta di TF, eliminando i passaggi manuali di archivio di backup Arresto. R4 ¨¨ un archivio di. 512k ¨¨ il file Sav.
R4 per homebrew, patch DLDI pu¨° automaticamente giocare, e integrato nel software kernel Moonshell multimediali, al fine di realizzare il film, ascoltare musica e delle funzioni di lettura e-book.
<a href="http://www.scheda-r4.com/">R4i SDHC</a>
<a href="http://www.scheda-r4.com/">ds Nintendo</a>
<a href="http://www.scheda-r4.com/">M3 ds real</a>
<a href="http://www.scheda-r4.com/">micro sd</a>