1 ersta mahnn

2 He'll have time to contemplate his mindthoughts and soulpatterns.

3 "Ah, um, I'm pleased to bestow the Serviceman Award of the Year to um, SPC Bradley Manning. Fight the power, brother!"

4 It really sounds like the thing that got him arrested was the communiques more than the videos. 

How in god's name did he have access to all of that stuff? 

5 From Potomac, Maryland, eh? Sure would be interesting to hear who his parents are, and what they do for a living. Betcha they're either academics, bureaucrats, or "activists".

6 Shoot the fucker.

7 I wonder if his actions fall under Article 104 of the UCMJ:

904. ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

Wikileaks is not technically the enemy we're fighting (although they aid and abet them), but the word "indirectly" there seems to have that covered.

8 6 Shoot the fucker.

Posted by: Parent of an Army soldier at June 07, 2010 01:06 PM (DYJjQ)

I'm with you.  I'm sure we could find a few volunteers somewhere...

9 Reuters reporters embedded with terrorists were killed in an airstrike?  Meh.

10 Oh it's true.  I'm sure now we won't even to be able to use CD's or DVD's now to move data around workstations.

11 I believe the Army's Criminal Investigation Division acted stupidly in this case.

12

There should be a simple rule:  anyone who reads Daily Kos or DD should be automatically and permanently barred from any type of military service.

They are all traitors in the making.

13 I wonder if his actions fall under Article 104 of the UCMJ:

Check Espionage, under article 106. Only punnishable by death under extenuating circumstances. As far as Treason, you could make an arguement for it, but you would lose.

14 4 It really sounds like the thing that got him arrested was the communiques more than the videos. 

How in god's name did he have access to all of that stuff?

I'm guessing his specialized field was something in IT and had access to the military's databases to do a dump of all this stuff.

If a business or agency is using certain kinds of e-mail packages, such as Outlook, it's possible for someone with sysadmin access to do a dump of all traffic to an archive file to be perused at your leisure.

15 Traitors should be court marshaled and executed on spot.

Plus, I'd be happy if more Reuters "reporters" turn suddenly dead when embedded with terrorists or when photoshopping stuff for Hamas and Al Qaeda.

16
If it's true, this dirt bag should be breaking rocks in Leavenworth...

Drew, why are you jumping to conclusions? You'd think you'd learn your lesson after you were dead wrong about James O'Keefe.

17 He looks like a pussy.

18 Yea fuck him. Let's just convict his ass here and save the trial costs.

19 I'm from Potomac, MD originally myself.  Everyone living there is either a federal government employee (both my parents, moved in during the late '70s before property values went through the roof), a local sports star, or an orthodontist. 

20 Shoot the fucker.

I sympathize: But his motives appear to be political, which kind of eliminates treason. Unless evidence bears out that he put lives at grave risk, or the security of the US in grave risk, this would normally not be a death penalty crime.

21 From Potomac, Maryland, eh? Sure would be interesting to hear who his parents are, and what they do for a living. Betcha they're either academics, bureaucrats, or "activists". Apparently, he is 2nd gen Army Intel. His father did 30 years service. Said his son was very tight lipped when he got out of AIT. I say let the little bastard finish his tour clearing landmines.

22 Posted by: fishdicks, do you like them? at June 07, 2010 01:14 PM (uFokq)

You apparently don't understand the meaning of "if".

Why don't you go back and do some remedial grammar school work and then come back and talk with the adults.

23 We have people everywhere.

24 19 I'm from Potomac, MD originally myself.  Everyone living there is either a federal government employee (both my parents, moved in during the late '70s before property values went through the roof), a local sports star, or an orthodontist. 

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2010 01:16 PM (l1KFP)

--Ahnuhld and Maria used to lie there as well.

25 State isn't going to have a heart attack over the exposure of diplomatic secrets -- they will have a heart attack over all of petty, inside dirty laundry on those cables.

26 We'll give him a fair trial and then hang him.

27 I'm just going to shit on this thread until DrewM apologizes to me personally for calling all South Carolinians racists.

You all suck and I hope you get cancer and die.

28 His father served 5 years in intel.

29 26 We'll give him a fair trial and then hang him.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean, Freedom Fighter at June 07, 2010 01:19 PM (uFdnM)

Cut . . . jib . . . etc.

30 10 Oh it's true.  I'm sure now we won't even to be able to use CD's or DVD's now to move data around workstations.

Posted by: CDR M at June 07, 2010 01:11 PM (BuYeH)

The Navy has already banned that stuff long ago.  No removable data storage devices allowed.

31 Brandon, the article explained what he did - simple sysadmin shell scripts - the key is he had root or su access and talked to the other hacker about a real security hole.

32
If these allegations are true, I believe the fellow deserves a firing squad.

33 Maybe he was unhappy with DADT.

34 But his motives appear to be political, which kind of eliminates treason.
MikeTheMoose

Huh?

Are you saying there are never politically motivated cases of treason? That doesn't make much sense. Sure a lot of people commit treason for the money but there can be true believers.

Think of that bastard Adam Gadahn. He's been charged with treason. Clearly his actions have political motives.

35 They ain't gonna shoot the little invertebrate. He will get court martialed and drummed out of the service with a dishonorable. Then the little bastard will run for President on the Democratic ticket.

36 Espionage?  If guilty, life + 100 at Leavenworth ought to be "worth" it to him as the price for whatever the hell he was thinking, doing this.

37 Somehow, in the end I will be blamed for this. It's the new un-American way.

38 Intersection any large city America, round through the head at noon!

39 He would be the next Daniel Ellsworth if a republican was in power. Now he will just be swept under the rug.

40 Bye dipshit. Never air dirty laundry. Some might think it is clean and the others don't really care as long as it doesn't stink.

41 Great news, comrades... I've just been offered a slot on the City of Berkeley council of supervisors!

42 Yeah I read that Wired article courtesy Instapundit.  From reading that article I got the impression that Manning styled himself as some sort of quasi-anarchist hoping to take down "the man".  Well guess what.  "The man" got to him first.

43 "The Bureau was particularly interested in information that Manning gave Lamo about an apparently-sensitive military cybersecurity matter," and “I would come in with music on a CD-RW labeled with something like ‘Lady Gaga’, erase the music then write a compressed split file,” he wrote. “No one suspected a thing and, odds are, they never will.” “ listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga’s ‘Telephone’ while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history,” he added later. ”Weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis… a perfect storm.”

44 “ listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga’s ‘Telephone’ while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history,” he added later. ”Weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis… a perfect storm.”


I blame Lady Gaga.  And Bush.

45 But his motives appear to be political, which kind of eliminates treason.

Sorry, no. Read the Constitution's definition of treason -- giving aid or comfort to the enemies of the United States. It says nothing about it being OK if you're doing it for domestic political motives.

And, for my part, I find the idea of someone providing propaganda to our enemies in order to achieve domestic political advantage to be WORSE than someone who simply aligns themselves with our enemies. Excusing crimes for being politically motivated is a dangerous road.

46 Looks like someone is going to meet Bubba at the rock factory.

47 The Navy has already banned that stuff long ago.  No removable data storage devices allowed.

It is like they place the computer in Schrödinger's box, while we debate whether it is still useful.

48 Sometimes the worst enemy is within.  Congratulations, asshole - thanks for emboldening the enemy.  Oh, and mucho thanks for compromising national security.

If this were a just world, he'd at least be sharing a bunk with Helen Thomas.

49 Can we "render" this guy to our foreign allies?

50 the really disgusting part is it appears he did it for political reasons, which means he will probably be a hero to Helen Thomas the whole MFM.

51 Who was it who said that the greatest threat to democracy in the Nation Below Canada would come from within, not without? Was it de Tocqueville?

52 At least this soldier knows what a library is. What?

53 I'd hit it.

54 I don't think they can get him on treason -- but 290000 disclosed classified cables -- at say 30days per cable (unauthorized disclosure of classified material) should serve as an example to others and give the leftys another reason to march and dance naked.

55
it's disappointing that an American solider would take it upon himself to defame and endanger his fellow servicemen in such away

Just remember, that turd kos was allegedly  a 'soldier' also. 

They're the ones that never should make it out of basic.

56 The sad thing is that this guy thought he was just and right and justified within all the parameters of the way things should be. He is about to get re-educated. Fuck him.

57 43 "The Bureau was particularly interested in information that Manning gave Lamo about an apparently-sensitive military cybersecurity matter," and “I would come in with music on a CD-RW labeled with something like ‘Lady Gaga’, erase the music then write a compressed split file,” he wrote. “No one suspected a thing and, odds are, they never will.” “ listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga’s ‘Telephone’ while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history,” he added later. ”Weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis… a perfect storm.”

Posted by: Jean at June 07, 2010 01:24 PM (JaO+v)

--Dr. Spank's DADT theory gains traction. . . .

58 Just think what all the other guys in this Detachment are going to have to go through now.

59 Is "Lady Gaga" a gay thing?

60 I say toss the little bastard into a cell at Gitmo with our little jihadi friends with some condoms in his pockets.

61

Bury him aline, then hang what's left and feed it to hungry pigs if he's guilty of doing this.

Then they should investigate the living f&ck out of his parents, too.

62 39, I meant Daniel Ellsburg (pentagon papers) that's what i get for relying on my memory.

63 How long before Daily Kooks and the rest of the lib blogs start calling this guy's actions "heroic"?

64 You didn't know that my lyrics contain coded instructions to spies, did you? And they're in COBOL, so almost no one understands them.

65
his motives appear to be political, which kind of eliminates treason.

Haw whuu?  WTF is "motivation" for treason other than politics?

66 Give him Viagra, lock him in a room with Helen Thomas for a week, then shoot him.

67 >59 Is "Lady Gaga" a gay thing?


Hellz no. All red-blooded American men love Lady Gaga.

68 Haw whuu? WTF is "motivation" for treason other than politics? Posted by: Dang Straights at June 07, 2010 01:34 PM (biBNm) Well money is sometimes. Just saying.

69 And they're in COBOL, so almost no one understands them.

I think I've got you beat for gibberish.

70 WTF is "motivation" for treason other than politics? Posted by: Dang Straights at June 07, 2010 01:34 PM (biBNm) Well money is sometimes. Just saying. You call it treason, I call it community organizing.

71 If this were a just world, he'd at least be sharing a bunk with Helen Thomas.

Ummmm....  I choose death.

72 59 Is "Lady Gaga" a gay thing?

Posted by: Jean at June 07, 2010 01:32 PM (3WbbL)

Do I like to bang hot women?

73 Reuters reporters who were embedded with the terrorists.

I think I missed that part when it came out.

74 If this were a just world, he'd at least be sharing a bunk with Helen Thomas.

Ummmm....  I choose death.

Death...by snoo-snoo!

75 64 And they're in COBOL, so almost no one understands them.
________________

I once considered making a COBOL program that rhymes. And then I came to my senses.

76

The Navy has already banned that stuff long ago.  No removable data storage devices allowed.

Posted by: Johnnyreb at June 07, 2010 01:21 PM (y67bA)

Actually, you can still use CDR and DVDR's (for now).

77 Hellz no. All red-blooded American men love Lady Gaga.

Really? I still think she harbors a penis.

78 How long before Daily Kooks and the rest of the lib blogs start calling this guy's actions "heroic"?

No worries.  We're already on it.

We've also sent this SPC Manning a job application.  We feel he would fit in perfectly here.

79 Thankfully, someone once mentioned that we are a nation of law. Those laws are not perfect. They allow the Juice to kill two- but exonerate 3 Marines on chicken shit charges.

I have noticed a real propensity for this administration to single people out and fuck em. Throw em under the bus. Always find culprits and lay blame. Ala Jeremiah Wright. Or that Inspector General guy. Or the CEO of GM. Or the BP idiot.  I don't trust this administration one iota. So I am going to hope the system works correctly here and wait for the evidence and thus the conviction- and hope that everyone one of us would get the same shake.

80 77 Hellz no. All red-blooded American men love Lady Gaga.

Really? I still think she harbors a penis.

Posted by: Samuel Adams at June 07, 2010 01:39 PM (nxUYP)

She does!  Trust me IYKWIMAITYD.

81

I have noticed a real propensity for this administration to single people out and fuck em.

Really, noticed that all by yourself, did you?  I admire your grasp of the screamingly obvious, wicked.

82 Treason. Deal with him accordingly.

83 Death...by snoo-snoo!

'scuse me, Guard?  Can I have my belt and shoelaces back, please?

84 If this guy is guilty, I'd like to see him sentenced to rot in Helen Thomas' crusty dusty twat.

85 This little prick had a "TOP" secret clearance? Shit that is higher than mine. It's all based a a need to know basis, but maybe this 22 year old really didn't need to know?

86 Had to google Lady Gaga, wish I hadn't

87 Sorry, no.

Sorry yes.
Treason requires intent to commit. You cannot accidentally commit treason. Unless you can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that he actually aided the enemy which means demonstrating exactly how the enemy benefited from the information, and he knew or should have known that he was doing so at the time he leaked the information, you have no legal argument for Treason. Like I said before you could make an argument for it but you would lose.

88 I sympathize: But his motives appear to be political, which kind of eliminates treason. Unless evidence bears out that he put lives at grave risk, or the security of the US in grave risk, this would normally not be a death penalty crime.


In a time of war there is NO difference.  If you are military and you disagree then get the hell out. Do not be a pussy and leak shit that can get people compromised or killed.  I don't give a shit if he leaked a chocolate chip cookie recipe, if it's classified that's enough for me.

Have fun in Leavenworth scumbag.

89 here and I thought I was so insightful...

90 Weird, I joined the Air Force in '82 and served until '89. I received two honorable discharges and have yet to understand why anyone would make a lying claim as a military member. I guess, color me naive because I never got shot at until I became a cop.

91 Something doesn't add up - not too many kids named Bradely from Potomac MD (very wealthy part of town) end up enlisted unless they really want to. Seems sharp enough to have at least been able to handle College Park or Frostburg.

92

anyone who reads Daily Kos or DD should be automatically and permanently barred from any type of military service. They are all traitors in the making.

So how do you know what's in Kos or DD?

93 Shit, just saw the sock.

94 Treason requires intent to commit. You cannot accidentally commit treason.

You're arguing he didn't intend to commit treason? By releasing classified information to a hostile propaganda channel?

What a load of crap. He did what he intended to do -- harm the United States and give aid and comfort to our enemies.

95 WTF is "motivation" for treason other than politics?

Allegiance to a foriegn power that is more substantial than loyalty to the United States.

e.g.
I want the war to stop because fighting this war is the wrong decision = Politics.

I want the other side to win because I like them more than the US and I am doing something to help make that end happen = Treason.

It is a fine line, and the Supreme Court has some cases with critical decisions. Probably the most crucial of these would be the Pentagon Papers.

96

There's two factors to consider here with information-sharing as treason.

First, there's the delivery of "secret" material to the enemy; and then there's whether your own side knows that this material has been delivered.

If douchebag tells a bunch of jihadis that the troops are going down Muhammad Street, then our troops will go down that street and the jihadis will lay an ambush. But if douchebag tells everyone, then our troops will either go elsewhere or else will have a surprise of their own.

The first case is clearly treason. The second case, I'm less sure of. I'd need a military lawyer to help me with that.

97 So how do you know what's in Kos or DD?

America sucks and we hope that 150 million Americans die now so that our Progressive agenda can rule dammit. America can survive with 30 million people

98 86 Had to google Lady Gaga, wish I hadn't

Posted by: Jean at June 07, 2010 01:43 PM (tTdaQ)

--My condolences

99 What is DD?

100

"Apparently, he is 2nd gen Army Intel. His father did 30 years service. Said his son was very tight lipped when he got out of AIT. "

 

Yeah, the John Walker family was like that, too.  Worthless mf's.

101

America sucks and ...

Quick question, OT: Now that America is just another country, no better or no worse than every other country in the world, which other country would you like to see provide peacekeeping troops to the U.S., in case of rioting or something?

102 Another thing, wikileaks hasn't promulgated that shit -- so have they been "compromised" by us? Did this kid feed their system - which was supposed to be a multi-national, distributed, encrypted enigma - something so toxic that they got cold feet.

103

I don't think that personal motivation should have anything to do with it. Otherwise we're saying that it's treason to frag your officer on behalf of Saddam, but it's just naughty to do it on behalf of Islam.

But I do not have any military-justice training, so that's just me talking.

104 Quick question, OT: Now that America is just another country, no better or no worse than every other country in the world, which other country would you like to see provide peacekeeping troops to the U.S., in case of rioting or something?

Israel!

Unless I'm one of the rioters, then, France!

105 That's it, I'm getting naked until I have to go to work at 2300 hrs. as protest. Fuck it, if everything is going to suck today, then at least I will have something to play with.

106 "Apparently, he is 2nd gen Army Intel. His father did 30 years service. Said his son was very tight lipped when he got out of AIT. " -- father's in for 30, kid's bright, when to good schools, in a very wealthy area, and he enlisted? really doesn't seem like the hard charger type to take that path.

107 Quick question, OT: Now that America is just another country, no better or no worse than every other country in the world, which other country would you like to see provide peacekeeping troops to the U.S., in case of rioting or something? RoK, without a doubt 4' long staffs - long black padded armor - no sense of mercy.

108 Hanging's too good for this shit stain.

Feed him to the dogs.

Sin City style.

109
I want the war to stop because fighting this war is the wrong decision = Politics.

I want the other side to win because I like them more than the US and I am doing something to help make that end happen = Treason.

Except that his means of bringing about "I want the war to stop" included "I want the other side to win" and "I am doing something to help make that end happen".

110 You're arguing he didn't intend to commit treason? By releasing classified information to a hostile propaganda channel?

What a load of crap. He did what he intended to do -- harm the United States and give aid and comfort to our enemies.

Like I said you could argue that but you would lose. Your standard of proof is beyond reasonable doubt; Whatever you believe to be true has to survive the scrutiny of jurors any one of which, not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt about his intent would end your case.

let's re-read the part no one quotes. It says "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Everyone gets the whole aid and comfort thing right. No one seems to remember that it has to be part of "adhering to their enemies" section, which requires intent.

Is there some other motivation, other than wanting the bad guys to win, that could have led to what he did? Could you reasonably say it might have been that, however lefty moonbat misguided, it might have been that?

You want to claim his intent was clear by his actions: to adhere to the enemies of the US. I am saying there is room for doubt, and that doubt would invalidate a charge of Treason.

111 Except that his means of bringing about "I want the war to stop" included "I want the other side to win" and "I am doing something to help make that end happen"

Perhaps he proposes a diplomatic talk it out lefty type UN toothless sanction un-solution to the terrorist problem.

112 You want to claim his intent was clear by his actions: to adhere to the enemies of the US. I am saying there is room for doubt, and that doubt would invalidate a charge of Treason.

And what you're saying is bullshit; there is no other possible outcome to his actions but to provide aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.

I bet we find out more about his motives, and they're more than just "because I could". I bet we find a Code Pink or jihadi link.

113 How long before Daily Kooks and the rest of the lib blogs start calling this guy's actions "heroic"?

Would you care to guess what I heard on NPR at 7:45 this morning?

114 Odd how technology effects all sorts of things that seem separate from it. I'm betting that if Manning had had to smuggle physical films/documents off base in order to leak them (no matter what his motives), he would have never done it. Just the thought would bring images of a firing squad to anyone's mind. But a few clicks of the mouse, a little access, and all of a sudden he's turned over more info. than Benedict Arnold could have fit in a hundred saddle bags. I happened to be a Spec 4 at 22 years old myself and I'm trying to think if there was anyone I knew back then who might have done something like this. Can't come up with one.

115 You want to claim his intent was clear by his actions: to adhere to the enemies of the US. I am saying there is room for doubt, and that doubt would invalidate a charge of Treason.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 07, 2010 02:08 PM (0q2P7)

Where is there room for any doubt?  His intention to give aid and comfort to our enemies is as clear as can be.

116 Why worry about the treason charge? 290,000 counts (ea. disclosed State cable) of Unauthorized Disclosure is going to a long time in Leavenworth.

117

Sure, he might have committed an act of treason; but if he did, he meant well. So it doesn't count.

118 Where is there room for any doubt?  His intention to give aid and comfort to our enemies is as clear as can be.

If he thought "diplomatic" solutions were a surer way to defeat the threat rather than militarily, and was simply trying to urge public policy and sentiment in that direction. Or he was simply trying to bring what he thought were abuses and corruption to light...Trust me the defense will have a plausible alternative of motive if he is charged with Treason.

119 -->If he thought "diplomatic" solutions were a surer way to defeat the threat rather than militarily, and was simply trying to urge public policy and sentiment in that direction.

Every spy could make the same argument.  The difference is that such bullshit used to be laughed out of consideration.  Of course, that was back before we had people argue in court that "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is" and others treated that as anything other than contempt of court.  One cannot find any doubt as to the intention of this worm to give aid and comfort to our enemies unless one finds doubt in the declaration that the sky is blue.

-->Or he was simply trying to bring what he thought were abuses and corruption to light...Trust me the defense will have a plausible alternative of motive if he is charged with Treason.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 07, 2010 02:26 PM (0q2P7)

Again, this could be the argument of any spy, which would mean that we could never find anyone guilty of espionage and might as well just let everyone have access to every bit of classified information, since someone might think it's better to have the information public (and giving aid and comfort to our enemies only as a side-effect).

You can find doubt in ANYTHING, if you want.  Common sense tells most people that this was treason, writ large.  But, we have suspended common sense in all legal proceedings ... so this is the state we are now in, where a clear case of espionage and treason has some talking about how there is doubt in the intention of the traitor.

120 But whistle blowers are so patriotic. He should be rewarded no castigated.

121 DD is Sullivan's Daily Dish?

122 It wasn't treason treason.

123 Sure, he might have committed an act of treason; but if he did, he meant well. So it doesn't count.

Not for hang from the gallows type punishments. However, other crimes involving espionage were committed, and while perhaps not amounting to Treason, could land him a very long career as a manufacturer of aggregate. Keep in mind the most notable case of espionage in the recent past John Walker, did a plea deal and got the opportunity for parole after 30 years.

Espionage if it is bad enough can carry the death penalty in the military.

124 Again, this could be the argument of any spy, which would mean that we could never find anyone guilty of espionage and might as well just let everyone have access to every bit of classified information, since someone might think it's better to have the information public

Espionage does not have the same burdens treason. That is why the crime of Espionage is separate from that of Treason, and as such gets used much more often. (Coincidentally includes 'indirect' communication with the enemy)

125 Espionage is separate from that of Treason, and as such gets used much more often.

The limitations of Treason as defined by the Constitution, being a big reason the broader crime of espionage was created. (Espionage act of 1917)

126 Keep in mind the most notable case of espionage in the recent past John Walker, did a plea deal and got the opportunity for parole after 30 years.

Espionage if it is bad enough can carry the death penalty in the military.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 07, 2010 02:37 PM (0q2P7)

The Bush administration was awful in terms of pursuing treason charges against many who deserved them.  Any American citizen who spies for our enemies is a traitor.  Period.  There is NO DOUBT about that, at all.

Of course, the Bush adminstration couldn't even see its way clear to press treason charges against John Walker Lindh, who was actively fighting with the enemy against Americans, or with any of the other jihadists holding American citizenship.  Part of that, no doubt, was due to Bush's own problems with the concept of the nation-state, as we all saw in his idiotic push for open borders and to let everyone and his brother stroll into the US without any consent on America's part.

127 Countdown to Sean Penn's buying the film rights and producing it as a sequel for "The Falcon and the Snowman": 3Â…2Â…1.

128 Article 106a of the UCMJ:

Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, anything described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns (A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack, (B) war plans, (C) communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or (D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

He can't claim freedom of the press either. The controlling case is the Pentagon Papers BS ruling which only stopped Nixon from placing a hold on the NYT publishing their article.

That case ruled that the government could not place a hold on a story UNLESS they could prove clear and present harm to the national security. The government must show "harm" after the fact in order to go after the press.

The government CAN go after the "leaker" for divulging classified data. However even that case was tainted by unauthorized wiretaps so the gov dropped everything.

Even AFTER it was shown that release of the PP did in fact reveal sources and methods that resulted in the Russians rolling up numerous agents and killing them as a result.

129

 ...you have no legal argument for Treason. Like I said before you could make an argument for it but you would lose...

Argument? No need for all that. Just shoot the bastard.

K?

 

130 Any American citizen who spies for our enemies is a traitor.  Period.  There is NO DOUBT about that, at all.

So says you. All I have maintained from the beginning, is that you lose with that argument. Simply stated, you can't randomly or even semi-selectively get 12 people and not get a bleeding heart who doesn't believe someone is, like in this case, a good hearted person with bad method.

FTR I was refering to John Anthony Walker above, not John Walker Lindh: He was arrested in 1985 under President Reagan. Neither he, his son, or co-conspirator Jerry Whitworth were convicted nor I believe even charged with Treason. They were selling us cryptography to the Soviets.

131 He can't claim freedom of the press either. The controlling case is the Pentagon Papers BS ruling which only stopped Nixon from placing a hold on the NYT publishing their article.

Oh, clear. I have never maintained he isn't guilty of, or can't be convicted of either Article 106a UCMJ or the civil crime Espionage, only that the current situation lacked sufficient evidence to convict Treason.

132 I was at FOB Hammer last year, its a hell hole.  Hated my every day there and was so thankfull that I almost kissed my detachment OIC when he pulled my team back to Warhorse.  I'd almost rather be breaking rocks at Leavenworth than putting more time in that shithole.

133 FTR I was refering to John Anthony Walker above, not John Walker Lindh: He was arrested in 1985 under President Reagan. Neither he, his son, or co-conspirator Jerry Whitworth were convicted nor I believe even charged with Treason. They were selling us cryptography to the Soviets.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 07, 2010 03:03 PM (0q2P7)

I was aware of who you were referring to.  I brought up John Walker Lindh because his treason was so unbelievably obvious and because the Bush administration was so awful in pursuing treason charges.

BTW, the difference between espionage and treason is not merely due to the difficulty of getting a verdict for treason, but because one can spy for non-enemies, thereby making them guilty of espionage but not treason - as with Jonathan Pollard.

134

"Give him Viagra, lock him in a room with Helen Thomas for a week, then shoot him."

Were you by any chance one of Henry VIII's torturers in a past life?

135 Wait, what? Solider?  I should think not.

136 Turned my stomach to see that Army uniform on this guy.  Butterface grinning fool does not look like a soldier.  The Army was weeding him out and demoting him, but it's a more PC world today.  This guy should be a lesson to keep the duds away from critical intel.

Sounds like he's got a decent family, too, that raised him to be a decent person.  But our society has some fundamental problems these days. 

137  It appears Manning got caught because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about the diplomatic cables. This apprently crossed some code of honor for one hacker who then reported him.

They do exist, depending on community.

138 Someone should just wack this traitorous butt muncher.

139 I think that SPC Bradley Manning is a hero. He has highlighted more gross transgressions from the Bush/Cheney Administration. Our President Obama should pardon him.

140 Oh it's true.  I'm sure now we won't even to be able to use CD's or DVD's now to move data around workstations.

Posted by: CDR M at June 07, 2010 01:11 PM (BuYeH)

The Navy has already banned that stuff long ago.  No removable data storage devices allowed.

-----

CDs and DVDs are not considered removable data storage to DOD. Removable data storage is considered flash drives, thumb drives, and the like. Because CDs and DVDs can be written on and the writing process closed preventing them from being rewritten (CDR vs CDRW) they are used heavily throughout the armed services.  They can also be controlled and the introduction of a flash drive can be detected by the network upon which it's used and the sysadmin notified.  The user's account then can be locked out within minutes.

I can't speak directly for the Navy but I don't think that CDs and DVDs are considered removable data storage.  I work for the air force and they use them all the time, although it is controlled by specifically trained sysadmin personnel.

141

Internal spies are the worst kind of traitors.  A man who simply leaves to fight with the enemy is at least honest.  He leaves, takes up arms, and may even kill a few Americans.  That is bad enough, but spies leak information that can be used to kill thousands, or millions.  They should suffer death so long, painful, and drawn out that NO ONE would even consider it for the briefest moment.  There is no punishment too cruel for this kind of thing. 

Much like that bastard Clinton, who essentially sold secret rocket tech to the Chinese, enabling them to have much more effective long range missles.  He is no less a traitor, even if not in the legal sense, than this guy is.

 

142 Give him the Edward II Prize for Dishonor.

143

Your over the top rhetoric is as bad as any lefty. 

Posted by: polynikes at June 07, 2010 03:43 PM (m2CN7)

It's my fault that Bush is a globalist?

How would you describe his push to consult the UN on just about everything and to try and print up US citizenships and hand them out to every slimeball who is able to sneak onto American territory?  As a great supporter of the nation-state and US sovereignty?

144

What is DD?   Posted by: logprof at June 07, 2010 01:54 PM (Mmw0q)

Big titties.

145 Second, go sell crazy to someone else.

Posted by: polynikes at June 07, 2010 03:58 PM (m2CN7)

LOL.  The truth is crazy, huh?

Meh ... Go stick your head back in the sand.  Life is easier for you that way, evidently.

146 146-You showed him.  Douche.

147 Given the hole in the bucket, FIX IT.

Intelligence analyst can't claim ignorance of the law and that the enemy researches Wikileaks.

Anyone who aides the enemy with other things, knowingly communicates with the enemy indirectly, "shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct."

One reason public leftist outrage used to fan the "Close Gitmo" threat was because someone released pictures of enemy combatants forced to wear girls underwear on their heads as "torture". Those US servicemen/woman participants were court martialed to serve time in prison.

So the responses from Obama, Hillary and Gates will be interesting to follow and compare.

148 PoP, I don't like Bush's view of border control by any stretch.  But it's excessive to say Bush refused to pursue traitors solely because of his personal ambition to pursue globalism.

I think Bush, for all his flaws, truly loves the USA and wants it to persist.  He made a lot of political calculations, but generally was willing to spend every cent of his political capital and reputation if he thought it would protect this country.

He was willing to employ extraordinary means to protect American lives, and owns up to what he did.  I think he avoided treason charges against Johnny for more pragmatic concerns.  Our country is divided and has a lot of strange twists a leader has to cope with in fighting the GWOT.

In sum, I just don't think Bush was soft on our enemies as some kind of NWO conspiracist.  And as imperfect as he was, I think he was a great president.  I'd carve his head into a big rock if I could.

149 Wikileaks just went down several notches in my opinion:

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange tweeted early Monday that 'If Brad Manning, 22, is the 'Collateral Murder' & Garani massacre whistleblower then, without doubt, he's a national hero.' He also referred to Lamo and Wired reporter Kevin Poulsen, who broke the story, as 'notorious felons, informers and manipulators.'

150 -->PoP, I don't like Bush's view of border control by any stretch.  But it's excessive to say Bush refused to pursue traitors solely because of his personal ambition to pursue globalism.

I have no idea why Bush refused to pursue treason charges against John Walker Lindh and other jihadis with American citizenship (though their citizenship caused them to be treated differently from the non-American jihadis, as it should).  The only way I can make sense of that sort of policy is his disdain for the concept of the nation-state.  Maybe Bush had other reasons, but none that I can see.

-->I think Bush, for all his flaws, truly loves the USA and wants it to persist.  He made a lot of political calculations, but generally was willing to spend every cent of his political capital and reputation if he thought it would protect this country.

I liked Bush.  His first term was excellent (relatively speaking).  But, Bush did the minimum necessary to protect America.  He refused to unleash the military to do its job effectively - though most others would not have even done what Bush did do.  He understood how important it was to take Iraq down.  It's a shame that he didn't do it correctly (kid gloves and a mistaken concentration on "democracy", when he should have concentrated on the source of all threats from the arab/persian/muslim world - the gulf oil fields) but Bush did more than any Dem would have done and more than most GOPers would have.  It was sad that he lost his nerve after Iraq, though it was important that he held strong on Iraq.

-->He was willing to employ extraordinary means to protect American lives, and owns up to what he did.  I think he avoided treason charges against Johnny for more pragmatic concerns.  Our country is divided and has a lot of strange twists a leader has to cope with in fighting the GWOT.

Maybe.  But, I don't see it.  Our country would not have been divided by treason charges against an American who went to Afghanistan and was shooting at Americans.  I think that most Americans wanted Lindh shot on the spot.

-->In sum, I just don't think Bush was soft on our enemies as some kind of NWO conspiracist.  And as imperfect as he was, I think he was a great president.  I'd carve his head into a big rock if I could.

Posted by: Lex Luthor, Ruler of Australia at June 07, 2010 04:14 PM (dUOK+)

I didn't mean to conflate the two.  Bush was soft in fighting because he leans left, not because of his globalist tendencies.  Bush made a mistake in trying to demonize "terrorism" (though I have no problem calling the war the War on Terror, since we have been calling arab/persian/muslim attackers "terrorists" for a long time and the word became more of a label than a description).  I didn't care what tactics were used; the fact that people were attacking the US was all that mattered.  But, for Bush to try and make a moral play on the terrorist tactics (and his constant bleating about attacking civilians) painted the US into a corner, since killing civilians is part of war, and is especially important when fighting against a tribalistic enemy.   Bush played into the hands of the international language abusers with that, instead of just declaring that the US will fight and kill all who are our enemies, no matter their tactics.  Bush's "religion of peace" thing was awfully annoying, too, but at least no one took that seriously.

But, I do think that issues of citizenship and treason hit Bush in the nation-state area more than the security area.

That's just how I saw things.  I liked Bush and am glad that he was in the White House on 9/11, but I was very disappointed with the half-hearted way he prosecuted the war (even though it was more than I would have expected from most) and I was severely disappointed with the way he never made American citizenship an issue with those who would join our enemies (of which there were many).  Those American citizens got all the benefits of American citizenship, but never had to pay the price for being Americans who were waging war on America.  This one-sided view of citizenship is closely related to the open-borders view, which is why I put them together - and for lack of any better explanation for such inaction after an attack of the sort we experienced on 9/11.

Of course, how far we have fallen since then.  Just one week after 9/11, the Indonesian Imbecile's spiritual mentor was screaming "g-d damn America" and talking about how evil America is.  It's a shame that tape wasn't made known when it happened, since I think Trinity Church would have been long gone, by now, and we would never have had the Indonesian Imbecile even running in any elections.  But, America has been so desensitized to traitors (partly I blame Bush for) that such an imbecile could run a campaign and slime into the White House.  It's amazing, really.  Just amazing.

151

Why does Wired call those people "innocent civilians" when that's obviously untrue? That's not just editorializing, that's making an unsupportable assertion of fact.

That's the kind of thing that gives journalists a bad name.

152 PoP

GWB and Perry have done Texas no favors with security, insisting on the open and greatly expanded highways (same situation in AZ south of Tucson) with no border stops at the US borders for trucking on a huge new international freeway. Remember a week ago, DHS alerted Houston, TX that Somali terrorists were entering the US via the Mexican border. During Bush's watch, you recall, GWB called conservative citizens vigilantes and racists for their legitimate request from government for secure border patrol as they voluntarily observed the OPEN border illegal entries, reporting them real time to border patrol. And Bush was all for McCain's COMPREHENSIVE immigration reform package to grant amnesty for illegal aliens and only make border enforcement that much more difficult, as government employees distance themselves FURTHER from actually performing their job descriptions.

Politically, George W. Bush did everything he could as TX Governor and as POTUS to bind N.America into a single political/economic union, like the EU, while economically allowing this Depression to fester under the surface. Sure, he gave some lip service "warning", CYA talk is cheap; but he never had any intention whatsoever to actually implement federal spending cuts. He began with what Obama has at the moment, a Republican majority Congress. 

It isn't as if anyone needs to or should HATE neoconservative RINOs as people.   Yes, GWB has a good sense of humor, is well read, is intelligent, and did not allow 9/11 to go without response. but study that response given current perspective on unintended consequences. And also study our own response to Bush, and think again, in retrospect, about the support we gave him when he was abused in office because he was our President and as a nation, we need to support our military once sent to war.  We gave Bush the benefit of the doubt then; but have no reason now to still be in doubt given mounting catastrophes from his wake. His "win the hearts and minds of the enemy" wars in the Middle East are unrealistic, to be polite.  The new Iraq has obliterated its traditional native Christian population. And contrary to before our invasion, Iraq now has the organization of politically minded people/contacts in place to ally with Iran via same Muslim sect. Where Iraq was a secular nation (though sadistic), it is becoming a democratic theocracy not eschewing torture of its prisoners.

DEMOCRACY is not a holy or respectable form of government if it is not also a REPUBLIC. A democratic republic, as the US Constitutional Government was designed to function, is the ideal.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Bush's neoconservative-socialist well intended Marxist creation of DHS (target vets and conservatives as if terrorists while supporting Islamic Jihadist terrorists) and the executive order bestowing autonomy to the Sec. of Treasury (Goldman Sachs) beholden to NO ONE are his legacy as unprecedented measures of over-extended executive privilege. His Texas accent is all affect. Like father, like son. GWBush is a silver-boot-in-his-mouth blue-blood Ivy League Kennebunkport elitist through and through who sold American citizens down the river on many occasions. 

153 "Collateral Murder"? That media employees chose to join the enemy for a "story" and got killed in an attack is what they chose to leave themselves vulnerable to experiencing.

154

What Spec. Manning did was

a) espionage

b) treason

c) stupid but not criminal

d) the highest form of patriotism

155 Stupid little bastard.  I hope they shoot his ass for treason.

156
I hate it when embedded lefty traitors get whacked with the enemy.

157

If Manning is guilty, it's disappointing that an American solider would take it upon himself to defame and endanger his fellow servicemen in such away

Given that he is only 22 years old, he has not been in the Army very long and must have joined around 2006 or so when GW was facing down the defeatists in Congress, the DNC, and hollywood...He probably joined with "dissent" in mind...

He merely disgraced himself, his family and made life harder for his fellow soldiers trying to defeat al Qaeda in Iraq, which they did thank god. 

Enjoy the next couple of decades in Leavenworth scumbag!

158 He joined in 2007.

It's always amusing when guys like this trip themselves up because they have to prove to everyone just how smart they are.  They would have caught him eventually anyway, but this made it quicker.

He's right about one thing, though.  Security was a bit lax if they were allowing him to bring CD-RW discs in and out of a secure facility.

159

Reuters reporters embedded with terrorists, or terrorists embedded with Reuters reporters?

160

This little mutherfucker is a Beauchamp fabulist clone:

What seemed to excite him most in his chats was his supposed leaking of the embassy cables. He anticipated returning to the states after his early discharge, and watching from the sidelines as his action bared the secret history of U.S. diplomacy around the world.

“Everywhere thereÂ’s a U.S. post, thereÂ’s a diplomatic scandal that will be revealed,” Manning wrote. “ItÂ’s open diplomacy. World-wide anarchy in CSV format. ItÂ’s Climategate with a global scope, and breathtaking depth. ItÂ’s beautiful, and horrifying.”

With a propensity to be a Beauchamp-type problem child:

He discussed personal issues that got him into trouble with his superiors and left him socially isolated, and said he had been demoted and was headed for an early discharge from the Army.
  He needs to be put under Leavenworth.

161 So, what's this guy's background? He reminds me of those spies in the 80s -- Christopjhr Boyce?? Pretend to be a patriot when they are really narcissists. Spying/leaking, breaking out of prison, robbing banks, joining aryan groups, and then porking 12 year olds. That's the continuum.

162 So, what's this guy's background? He reminds me of those spies in the 80s -- Christopjhr Boyce??

Was that the guy from The Falcon and the Snowman?  They tried to paint him sympathetically in the movie, but failed miserably.

163 I guess the thing that kills me the most about this bullshit is that I was denied a top secret clearance... I originally had attempted to join the Navy and go to nuclear power school, and was denied on the basis that I had a juvenile arrest record.  The shitty thing is, that arrest record was sealed when I was 25, and I ended up pursuing a private sector job afterward.  Point being, me as a dumbass in my teens was more culpable and reliable (and loyal) citizen and soldier compared to this fuck-stick, but this piece of shit was allowed through because he looked innocent, and security measures were lax.  Fuck this fuck, and may he roth in a dungeon of 10,000 ghosts who haunt not only in life, but in death.

164 If a relative of mine went down because of these critters, it would be hunting time. and what I would do to them would make Dexter* blanch. * (of Showtime fame)

165 Fuck Leavenworth.  Steak him out in enemy territory and let the Taliban or Al Qeada have him.

166 The DVD to iPad Converter is the easiest to use DVD to iPad converter software available. It can convert almost any type of DVD to play on Apple iPad Video player.