1 I'm expecting PR to get an offer they can't refuse this time.

2 One rather gets the impression that this Congress just wants to keep throwing crazy stuff at us so quickly, on holidays and in the middle of the night and as barely publicized surprises, that its almost impossible for a benumbed citizenry to mount a defense against each item.

Aka ALINSKY BINGO

3 Ay carumba!

4

My local Tea Party Rep just sent this to me

http://tinyurl.com/22mbhhp

They are voting within the next hour(?)call your REPS!!

 

 

5 I'm so angry.  People talk about the angry males... I'm an angry male.

6 The 58th state!

7 We need to be shedding states not gaining them.

8 "One rather gets the impression that this Congress just wants to keep throwing crazy stuff at us so quickly, on holidays and in the middle of the night and as barely publicized surprises, that its almost impossible for a benumbed citizenry to mount a defense against each item."

I know this is just quaint neivete on my part, but we shouldn't have to "defend" ourselves from these people THEY WORK FOR US AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING THIS SH*T TO BEGIN WITH!!

9

 

heh, and we say the Democrats are stupid...

10

Why stop with Puerto Rico?  I say, statehood for Cuba!!!  Viva La Revolucion!

 

11 Puerto Rico will not necessarily go solidly Democratic.  Sources from both sides of the spectrum suggest that their ideology mirrors that of Cuban-Americans in Florida.  Expect that any Democrats elected from the possible state of Puerto Rico will be conservative Dems at the very worst.  Additionally, any Republicans will have to be socially conservative.  Be honest; don't you think we could use six or seven more Marco Rubios in the Congress?

12 Trade-off: We accept Puerto Rico and throw out California.

13 I am not too worried about this. Beck is scaremongering on this one. There is only one part that worries me somewhat and that was IF they voted to change their status AND have to make a choice for the middle choice which is virtually incomprehensible.

14 "...its almost impossible for a benumbed citizenry to mount a defense against each item. Posted by LauraW."

I'm too angry to be numbed.

15 Nil Butron is a Pud.

16 For everyone who thinks Beck is crazy.  Thank God for him being one of the only voices out there letting people know what this administration of weasels, liars, thugs and Marxists is up to.  Every single day is WTF? day.

17

Beck: They are after the Puerto Rican, immigrant & PRISONER vote. (para)

Oh dear.

 

 

 

18 They're gonna be pissed when they find out how much taxes will be on their cigarettes.

19

My local Tea Party Rep just sent this to me

Your tea party rep sent you a verizon commercial?

20

I'm too angry to be numbed.

Numb comes later. Numb comes when there are so many things to be angry about that you can't keep up and you have to either shut down or burn up. And I don't know about yu, but if I go down in flames it'll be on my terms. It's like dental anesthesia. Numb but aware, that's me.

21 12 Trade-off: We accept Puerto Rico and throw out California.
Posted by: Benson

Bite your tongue! (Or your keyboard, in this case.)

There are a bunch of Californians (born here) who are more dismayed by what's happening to this state than you could possibly be!

22

 

The Republicans have no scruples, no sense of history, no common sense, absolutely no prognostication skills, and no ability to see what's plainly in front of them.

The Repuplican are the Detroit Lions of political parties. They have nothing. No offense. No defense. No QB. No coach. No gameplan.

23

I may not benumbed but i am sooo pissed, I can't feel anything!

 

24 So the senate would still have to vote correct?  Not too concerned yet.

25 Lou,

The territory's median annual income is $17,000 and their current representative to Congress was Obama's co-chair in Puerto Rico.

These aren't Cuban-American descendants living in Miami.

26

I'm too angry to be numbed.

Numb comes later. Numb comes when there are so many things to be angry about that you can't keep up and you have to either shut down or burn up. And I don't know about yu, but if I go down in flames it'll be on my terms. It's like dental anesthesia. Numb but aware, that's me.

Posted by: Joanna at April 29, 2010 02:09 PM (7+WuG)

Here, this should cheer you up:

WhatÂ’s next, an offer to help Iran destroy Israel?

I guess Smart Diplomacy is just a figure of speech.

Carl in Jerusalem

 

27 Wonder where that pussy Lindsey Shamnesty is on this?

28 My trade-off would be:  accept Puerto Rico, forcibly relocate all the conservatives to Texas, and then kick Texas out.  Win-win-win

29 Puerto Rico was a stupid country, but it taught me a lot about myself, lessons IÂ’ve tried to retain going forward.

30 Social security and welfare without paying income tax?  Why would they vote for statehood?

31 New thread!

Hump thread!

32 Verizon spam is the new Tea Party platform?

33 heh. wait until p.r. gets a gander of our 70,000 page tax code. oh and no salt.

34

 

Almost 60% against ObamaCare...70% against illegals invading our country...almosy EVERYONE is for domestic oil drilling.

And these stupid shit Republicans can't find any issues to run on, to use against the Democrats?

/brain aneurism

/help me

35

Your tea party rep sent you a verizon commercial?

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at April 29, 2010 02:09 PM (7VvJB)

oops link user fail, try this...sooory:

http://tinyurl.com/34jej5x

 

36 Ummm.  I kinda like it here in Georgia.  Can we send Jimmah Carter and Hank Johnson to Puerto Rico?  Or would it tip over and capsize?

37 So that makes 58?

38 32 Verizon spam is the new Tea Party platform?

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 29, 2010 02:13 PM (qSRHZ)

Friggin Tea Baggin shills for the man!!

 

39

My trade-off would be:  accept Puerto Rico, forcibly relocate all the conservatives to Texas, and then kick Texas out.  Win-win-win

+ 1

Your thinking pretty straight for an angry white male - I like it.

40 Uh, Rush just opened with DHS sending swat troops to all the oil rigs in the gulf.
Did I hear this wrong?  Over at jawa, they were speculating terrorism this morning.  They've caught operatives with plans to do just such a thing in the past.

Am I dreaming?  did I just hear that?  I think he said reuters.

41

 

The territory's median annual income is $17,000...

Exactly why the PR's will vote for stathood...they don't have to worry about paying federal income taxes.

42 ok I have to say my peace on this though I know i'll come off as the a-hole that disagrees and have a bunch of Glenn Beck people who are going to go off on me, but the argument being used by the base against Puerto Rico statehood is one of intolerenace and ignorance.

please tell me if i'm wrong but the argument is that the state would bring millions of new dem voters and be the reliable island state vote to dems that Hawaii already is; problem with that argument is: 1. so what? their political ideology shouldn't keep them from being a state if we allow them to have the opportunity, 2. the republican party tends to be pro Puerto Rico statehood, 3. the state's straw polls voted for Dubya twice and the Governor is a Republican facing a war w/ unions and slashing the budget big time, and btw his Progressive Party label that Glenn "everyone is a progressive! did I mention Scott Brown's joke shows he might go crazy and kill an intern?" Beck is going nuts about is a conservative platform in that territory with a different term for that word then we do here

My problem with this vote is the horrible process being used against it, it's set up so less then 50% could lead the state to statehood though most in the country consider themselves Puerto Ricans 1st before Americans yet favor a territorial relationship w/ the United States. That said, the country does have problems it's facing that scream Republican Revolution (which it's currently undergoing) in that it has a 15% unemployment rate and 9% is considered full employment. The voting process for this is unethical and wrong and is pushing the people of Puerto Rico towards statehood instead of allowing them to choose themselves through a majority.

That said my view is they should have a big election day up or down vote on it. They have to choose once and for all, state or independence and frankly I think statehood might lose that one. This commonwealth status is hurting both us and them economically.

So again argue against the process not the sudden claim it would be a lefty state, though recent trends in the state say otherwise.

One last point, one talking point has been "hey not that many came out for the Republican caucus. That's because 1. it was over by then on the GOP side, 2. no Rep came down and visited Puerto Rico at the time, Hillary & Obama both campaigned for their primary votes and Hillary beat Obama

so I know many might get ticked off at my position but I had to put in my two cents, there's an argument here the GOP and the base can use to prevent this mess from happening but arguing it would be a free lefty state (which I argue it wouldn't be) is not the way to go

43 Yeah if that's the case, bring on the statehood.  Free EIC money!

44

trade-off would be:  accept Puerto Rico, forcibly relocate all the conservatives to Texas, and then kick Texas out.  Win-win-win

 

We should just have a draft, like in sports. Conservatives and Liberals each get to pick a state.

45 Why the hell don't we just bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, invade Mexico, make it the "58th" state, round up the drug cartels, crooked politicos, and other assorted n'er do wells, send their asses to Afghanistan (and let them shoot it out with the Tollybon)?  We get a cleaned up beautiful oil-rich state.  Win.

46 33 heh. wait until p.r. gets a gander of our 70,000 page tax code. oh and no salt.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at April 29, 2010 02:14 PM (7VvJB)

Why would they care?  With a median income of $17,000, they still won't pay taxes - practically the entire GD state wouldn't!

They would get free votes in Congress with no other changes except more kickbacks coming their way in the form of pork-for-votes.

47

 

I'll choose to help the aneurism.

Why are you so patient with the Republican party? You've been carrying their water for years. Tell me what they've done to deserve your undying loyalty because I need to understand.

48 I'm thinking that this must have something to do with the whole "focus laser-like on unemployment"?  Or am I wrong?

49 Terrorism is really being posited for the oil spill? I think Obama just implied that.

50

 

The best way to stop the PR's from voting to join the union: tell 'em about the VAT.

51

YRM, why would there be a push FOR it now?  Why did they push for DC to get votes in Congress?  Why the crimmigrant shamnesty bills now?

The answer is, in order to cement a permanent majority.

If any of these things happen, the chances of you or your children ever being on the winning side of an election go waay down.  And you know what comes of that.

It's not intolerant to want to keep fundamentally un-American people from gaining suffrage.  And Democrats and their voters are fundamentally un-American.

52

Posted by: Lou at April 29, 2010 02:06 PM (PtIpn)

totally agree, the state is undergoing some big political changes that side with us right now and the fact their Hispanics is causing us to suddenly deny them statehood because they'd be lefty votes according to people like Beck, the state is more swing state like FL is

Posted by: Vic at April 29, 2010 02:06 PM (QrA9E)

agreed, Beck is scaremongering about this, but that's his current gimmick. the argument is the ugly process not which way they'd vote; Alaska was admitted to the union as a Dem supporting/voting territory and then became a Republican stronghold

53

so I know many might get ticked off at my position but I had to put in my two cents, there's an argument here the GOP and the base can use to prevent this mess from happening but arguing it would be a free lefty state (which I argue it wouldn't be) is not the way to go

eh.

my biggest issue would be that we couldn't just bring in Puerto Rico, I say we wait for Castro to fall and then see if Cuba and Puerto Rico want to become a state.

 

 

also, Why can't we take into consideration the upset in political balance that would be caused by Puerto Rico becoming a state. Surely the democrats are only pushing this now for those political reasons, so why not call them on it.

 

Also, most of our states are on the verge of bankruptcy as it is, i hardly think we could afford another state in the union at this time.

 

This isn't an argument we need to be having at this juncture. That's all. let's consider statehood down the road when times are better.

54

 

You goys ever see how those shitheads from Gaum vote? That's how the new PR shitheads will vote in our Congress.

55 Uh, Rush just opened with DHS sending swat troops to all the oil rigs in the gulf.
Did I hear this wrong?

WSJ says "swat teams" are inspectors from the Interior Department, sent to inspect the oil rigs.

56 YRM, well said, except dems can always outbid us in the promises dept.  You want to add however many to institutionalized benefits?  We are already in deep debt doo-doo and this would just increase the problem.

57 56 That sounds better.

58

Again, i know Puerto Rico may very well become a republican state down the road as hispanics tend to be socially conservative, but let's not pretend for a second that the democrats aren't doing this now because Puerto Rico, for the moment, would add 7 congressional democrats, two senate democrats, and would take away congressional seats from American states set to gain seat in the 2010 census, particularly red states.

 

I don't care for beck on this, but I do think politics are involved, and i don't think this is the best time in american history to be debating or even considering this.

59 Have Tea Partiers been spotted near the oil rigs?  Little gramma and grandpa partiers?  Hope the SWAT teams are well armed!

60

Posted by: Truman North at April 29, 2010 02:22 PM (e8YaH)

the problem w/ your argument is that it's 50/50 in the Republican side on support for statehood, and lefty hispanic congressmen who know it's not the automatic free blue state vote people claim it would be are fighting against it as well

61 Benson,

The governor is a Republican.  The Senate President is a Republican.  The speaker of the House is Republican.  Prior to 2008, the representative was a Republican.  The NPP is affiliated with both major parties, yes, but socially conservative throughout.

Finally, a low income does not necessarily a Democrat make.  Ever heard of the American Southeast?  Upstate New York?  Michigan's Upper Peninsula?

The vote may be undemocratic, and it should be opposed for that reason.  But it will not automatically pad Democratic voter rolls, so don't give me that.

62

Terrorism is really being posited for the oil spill? I think Obama just implied that.

Yeah, because he did it. That and all of the coal mine accidents.

Just when the tide was turning toward developing our own enrgy resources instead of almost exclusively foreign oil.

Any better way of putting the brakes on domestic energy development than loss of life and considerable pollution of the oceans?

63 39

My trade-off would be:  accept Puerto Rico, forcibly relocate all the conservatives to Texas, and then kick Texas out.  Win-win-win

+ 1

Your thinking pretty straight for an angry white male - I like it.

You forgot "Expand the borders of Texas to include present-day Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and the Florida Panhandle."

64 totally agree, the state is undergoing some big political changes

oops I meant territory, Freudian slip?

Posted by: Loopy de Loop at April 29, 2010 02:23 PM (uFokq)

you mean the same Guam that went to Dubya twice in the straw poll elections they have?

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at April 29, 2010 02:25 PM (7VvJB)

exactly, let's argue that it's not time, that the process being used is unethical and wrong, but let's not argue "hey they might think diff. then half the country so let's not let them in."

65 Oil can't melt steel! GOOGLE IT!

66 The governor is a Republican.  The Senate President is a Republican.  The speaker of the House is Republican.  Prior to 2008, the representative was a Republican.

None of whom will or currently have the ability to help determine welfare policy. But their willingness to vote for a guy who campaign for Obama even over Hillary Clinton isn't promising.

Finally, a low income does not necessarily a Democrat make.  Ever heard of the American Southeast?  Upstate New York?  Michigan's Upper Peninsula?

Low-income by American continental standards is even higher than median income for Puerto Ricans. The median income in Puerto Rico for a family of three is just above the poverty line for the continental United States (again, for a family of three).

67 Its not about dem vs. repub, its about debt.  at least thats my argument.  and why argue for p.r.?  We have plenty of territories.  I don't give them special merit.

68

Benson,

The governor is a Republican.  The Senate President is a Republican.  The speaker of the House is Republican.  Prior to 2008, the representative was a Republican.  The NPP is affiliated with both major parties, yes, but socially conservative throughout.

Finally, a low income does not necessarily a Democrat make.  Ever heard of the American Southeast?  Upstate New York?  Michigan's Upper Peninsula?

The vote may be undemocratic, and it should be opposed for that reason.  But it will not automatically pad Democratic voter rolls, so don't give me that.

First, it is Ben, I am not japanese it's not Ben-son

Again, I simply said the Democrats are pushing it for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with what is "right". Why would they want to admit another state to the union if they thought for a second it would produce all republicans?

Second, We are not at a time in our history where we can afford to add another state.

 

Third, which i didn't get to, and you pointed out, is that the vote is rigged so that only a plurality is needed to make it a state, which is ridiculous.

69 The vote may be undemocratic, and it should be opposed for that reason.  But it will not automatically pad Democratic voter rolls, so don't give me that.

thank you! that's my point as well, there's an argument to be made here and bashing their supposed slant on politics is not the way

70

oops

 

sorry lou, didn't realize there was a "benson" here , i thought you were talking to me.

apologies

71 Ben,

I think he meant me when he wrote "Benson".

*Feels like a guy who shows up at the party with a nearly-identical outfit to another attendee*

72 None of whom will or currently have the ability to help determine welfare policy. But their willingness to vote for a guy who campaign for Obama even over Hillary Clinton isn't promising.

what state are you from?

Again, I simply said the Democrats are pushing it for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with what is "right". Why would they want to admit another state to the union if they thought for a second it would produce all republicans?

Second, We are not at a time in our history where we can afford to add another state.

 

Third, which i didn't get to, and you pointed out, is that the vote is rigged so that only a plurality is needed to make it a state, which is ridiculous.

your 1st point is not the argument to be making against this mess, the 2nd and 3rd point are, the 1st point only weakens our argument by looking intolerant and making wild claims that the state will vote a way I don't believe it will vote

73

I don't understand why we need Puerto Rico to become a state right now.

 

can you explain that? Why now? What is so imperative about them becoming a state?

And more importantly, how in the world will we make the flag have symmetry with an odd number of stars?

 

also lets leave beck out of this as i don't watch or listen to him, and don't really know what hes saying about it.

74

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at April 29, 2010 02:31 PM (7VvJB)

that's my point, it's an argument against debt that will help us stand on this not an argument against whether it would vote one way or another

75

Posted by: Ben at April 29, 2010 02:35 PM (wuv1c)

I left Beck out a while ago on the comments, your questions are the questions we can ask in this argument, not "well would they vote the way we want them to vote?", it's not the time to debate this, it's wrong how their making this process work, but please let's not argue against them over suspicions on where they'd vote

76 Puerto Rico has been living off the US for about 100 years.  Why change things now?

77

YRM, I see your points but have 4 points for you.

Process

Timing

Motivation

Unintended consequences

 

78 what state are you from?

Honestly, I'd prefer not to say. It's a swing state, though.

I have no intention of suggesting politicians or pundits argue that we should oppose statehood because of voter demographics. That would be the wrong pathway entirely.

I'm just pointing that out here, to my fellow morons.

79

YRM.

I am arguing it should be stopped because of how they may vote, but i do think it is fair to consider the fact that the democrats are such scumbags that they would let another a territory become a state if it benefited them at the polls. that's all. we're allowed to mention it. It isn't the reason it should be denied, but lets not stick our head in the sand and pretend it hasn't crossed the mind of the democrats.

You don't fault that?

If we are going to let another state in we should look at EVERYTHING.

1 and 2 on my list are the undemocratic nature of this vote and the inability of america to afford another state at this point in our histroy.   The political thing is a distant issue bunched in with a lot of other issues that would need to be considered.

 

It's nothing against puerto rico. Hell if Alberta and other Candian provinces that would be guaranteed to go republican wanted to join america as states right now I would be against it. Now isn't the time

 

 

80 The latino dems in congress are urging a no vote, not sure why, is there some kind of latino discrimination against island latinos "acting white"?

81 42 the argument being used by the base against Puerto Rico statehood is one of intolerenace and ignorance.

please tell me if i'm wrong
_____________

As I understand it, the arguments against this particular vote are:

1) Puerto Rico can vote on statehood any time they want, they don't need to get congress involved.
2) Every time Puerto Rico has voted on statehood, it's been voted down.
3) The referendum being voted on in Congress is structured in a confusing way that is likely to result in statehood regardless, unless Puerto Rican voters are extremely careful.
4) The major support for this bill in Puerto Rico comes from a group that is agitating for the "Tennesee plan" of simply electing congressmen, shipping them to Washington and demanding they be seated.

But that's just what Beck says. He could be wrong or misguided.

82 Puerto Rico would be so deep blue it wouldn't even be funny. There would be no reason for the Dems to be doing this otherwise.

As a state, politically Puerto Rico would be something close to Hawaii, a state in which Republicans CAN potentially win but very rarely and only under peculiar circumstances.

It would be a guarantee of two Dem senators and 6-8 Dem congressman. Maybe a GOP congressman could slip in every now and again, but that would be it.

83 What the hell, when did this become an issue?

84

whoops type  o in my 80

 

the first sentence should read,," I am not arguing it should be stopped because of how they may vote, but i do think it is fair to consider the fact that the democrats are such scumbags that they would let another a territory become a state if it benefited them at the polls."

 

i left out a key word sorry.

85 Oh, I forgot:

5) New referenda occur every eight years until Puerto Ricans vote for statehood.

In other words, it's like the EU's strategy of "keep voting until you vote the way we want".

86

It's kinda rude (and raaaacist) to try to trick Puerto Rico into statehood when they don't want it.  Why are so many Republicans sponsoring this bill?  What are they getting out of this? 

Me, I'm thinking here in Western Washington, we Tea Partiers should claim a terrority and agitate for self rule.  Like the so-called 'Palestinians', only with jello salad instead of rockets.

87 46 We get a cleaned up beautiful oil-rich state. Win.
______________

No. If we invade and take over Mexico, we'll no longer be allowed to drill there.

88

1 and 2 on my list are the undemocratic nature of this vote and the inability of america to afford another state at this point in our histroy.   The political thing is a distant issue bunched in with a lot of other issues that would need to be considered.

Posted by: Ben at April 29, 2010 02:39 PM (wuv1c)

I bet Puerto Rico would cost the US less as a state than it does as a commonwealth territory.  I bet we subsidize Puerto Rico a lot more now than we would if it were a state.  But I could be wrong.

89 54 my biggest issue would be that we couldn't just bring in Puerto Rico, I say we wait for Castro to fall and then see if Cuba and Puerto Rico want to become a state.
_______________

Cuba once begged to become a state and we turned them down.

90

Puerto Rico is beautiful, wifey and I plan on vacationing there soon.

They produce wonderful baseball players, beautiful wimmins and deliscious banana recipes. Whats not to love!

Oh! and Rum!

 

91 54 my biggest issue would be that we couldn't just bring in Puerto Rico, I say we wait for Castro to fall and then see if Cuba and Puerto Rico want to become a state.
_______________

Cuba once begged to become a state and we turned them down

big mistake. But if i recall that was because of slavery. if we let them in weren't they going to be a slave state?

92

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at April 29, 2010 02:39 PM (7VvJB)

that's because they know the state isn't as blue as certain people claim...

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at April 29, 2010 02:40 PM (wA1GG)

yeah the problem w/ your arguemt is that they have a speaker, Senate President, and Governor that are all republican and in their straw polls went to Dubya twice, having a history of showing support for the winning candidates in all the Presidential elections in the US it would be more a purple state like FL

As I understand it, the arguments against this particular vote are:

1) Puerto Rico can vote on statehood any time they want, they don't need to get congress involved.

that's a good argument to use

2) Every time Puerto Rico has voted on statehood, it's been voted down.

yep, it's come closer and closer but yes it has

3) The referendum being voted on in Congress is structured in a confusing way that is likely to result in statehood regardless, unless Puerto Rican voters are extremely careful.

exactly, that is an argument tiobe used, I agree

t that's just what Beck says. He could be wrong or misguided.

Beck also went off that it would be a lefty state which I argue it wouldn't, he also called the Governor a progressive which is laughable considering his record

93 Oh, I forgot:

5) New referenda occur every eight years until Puerto Ricans vote for statehood.

In other words, it's like the EU's strategy of "keep voting until you vote the way we want".

oh and if you vote no, we'll allow your parliament to vote yes without giving you a vote. suck it england.

94

5) New referenda occur every eight years until Puerto Ricans vote for statehood.

In other words, it's like the EU's strategy of "keep voting until you vote the way we want".

that is the argument to be made not their political slant

It's kinda rude (and raaaacist) to try to trick Puerto Rico into statehood when they don't want it.  Why are so many Republicans sponsoring this bill?  What are they getting out of this? 

why are lefty hispanic dems not supportive of the bill? because it's not the lefty state everyone is crowing it would be, actually look ath the geopolitics of the state, the recent trends, their current ruling class, and know what the hell your talkng about. Glenn Beck announcing "progressive! progressive! progressive!" doen't make it so

95 No. If we invade and take over Mexico, we'll no longer be allowed to drill there.

Exactly.  We get too much of our oil there to risk taking it over.  Which makes no sense, but that's modern politics for you.

96
Apparently, Puerto Rico's governmental budget has, ummm, how you say? short falls, and that if they became a state, they'd get, how you say? bailed out.

Unlike under the commonwealth arrangement. Of course, that means the average Puerto Rican Janella and Jose will take it in the shorts with regard to taxes as the commonwealth arrangement is pretty sweet for them. But when has concern for the common citizen ever slowed down the ruling elites?

97

One good thing:  They would have to pay taxes as well as suck them up.  One bad thing: They would have to pay taxes so the price of rum would go up.

98 yes, more people are seeing my points. the process that the political slant is the ticket, morons don't have to take everything Beck says as the absolute truth

99

54 This isn't an argument we need to be having at this juncture. That's all. let's consider statehood down the road when times are better.

 

Assuming facts not in evidence.

100 the process that the political slant

the process, not the political slant*

101

yes, more people are seeing my points. the process that the political slant is the ticket, morons don't have to take everything Beck says as the absolute truth

I don't think most people hear are even considering that. I think your issue is with beck, not the people here.

 

However, if and when we do let PR in as a state, the political landscare should at the very least be a topic of discussion, not the overriding one, but i think everything deserves to be discussed when it comes to adding a state to our union. don't you agree?

102 However, if and when we do let PR in as a state, the political landscare should at the very least be a topic of discussion, not the overriding one, but i think everything deserves to be discussed when it comes to adding a state to our union. don't you agree?

I agree but AT THIS POINT, we should go after the process being used, when/if they become a state we can argue it's political part in the equation of the country's geopolitics which I argue is another swing state, until then I want to argue process, affordability, and timing not how they'd vote

103

I agree but AT THIS POINT, we should go after the process being used, when/if they become a state we can argue it's political part in the equation of the country's geopolitics which I argue is another swing state, until then I want to argue process, affordability, and timing not how they'd vote

Ok, so you and I are in agreement. It shouldn't happen because of the process, but when in fact they truely want to become a state of their own free will , the effect on america politically should at least be discussed. Not now, but when they vote democratically to become a stat. 

 

 It shouldn't be the only reason to keep them out or let them , but all the implications of statehood should be discussed.

i will take you word on the geopolitical nature of PR as i do not know a ton about it, and i am inclined to assume that the Democrats are trying to force it into state hood because they see it as a political win for themselves. It may be cynical but that is how i read their currenty push to undemocratically force statehood on PR.

104

"One rather gets the impression that this Congress just wants to keep throwing crazy stuff at us so quickly, on holidays and in the middle of the night and as barely publicized surprises"

Just like the Republicans did when they controlled Congress.

105 yeah the problem w/ your arguemt is that they have a speaker, Senate President, and Governor that are all republican and in their straw polls went to Dubya twice, having a history of showing support for the winning candidates in all the Presidential elections in the US it would be more a purple state like FL

First off, straw polls don't mean a thing, ever. Election results always tell us a lot more. And in 2008 the Republican caucuses there totaled a few hundred votes for all the candidates while the Democrat candidates generated almost 400,000.

Second, federal representation is a very different proposition. The median household income in PR is something like $16,000 a year, WAY lower than the poorest U.S. state. The citizens of PR are NOT going to be paying very much in the way of income taxes, but are going to get all sorts in the way of federal largesse. There is no way in hell such a population is ever going to send Republican representation to Congress.

You're kidding yourself if you think PR as a state will be anything other than a solid Democrat bastion. The Dems wouldn't be doing this otherwise.

106

7 We need to be shedding states not gaining them.

yup

107

Posted by: Ben at April 29, 2010 03:04 PM (wuv1c)

I'm Puerto Rican and have much knowledge about the politics and issue of the territory and how they feel about what we're doing over here, they tend to side w/ who the independents side with, Bush was hugely popular over there as was Reagan. btw not all dems support this because they know it could become the Hawaii of Republicans, lefty hispanic dems are begging dems not to push this

108

Just like the Republicans did when they controlled Congress.

such as? (saying this as someone who was disappointed with most of what the repubs did  with congress in 2002-2006)

 

109

I'm Puerto Rican and have much knowledge about the politics and issue of the territory and how they feel about what we're doing over here, they tend to side w/ who the independents side with, Bush was hugely popular over there as was Reagan. btw not all dems support this because they know it could become the Hawaii of Republicans, lefty hispanic dems are begging dems not to push this

 

as i said. i will believe you when it comes to the geopolitical nature of PR. I truely do. i do not know a ton about the politics down there. As i said, all i know of the generic hispanic vote over all, is that hispanics, like blacks, tend to be socially conservative,

However, the cynic in me is always suspicious of why democrats do what they do. And wanting to force PR into statehood undemocratically seems extremely suspicious to me.  That's all.

I did see that two dems in the hispanic caucas are against this.

110 First off, straw polls don't mean a thing, ever. Election results always tell us a lot more. And in 2008 the Republican caucuses there totaled a few hundred votes for all the candidates while the Democrat candidates generated almost 400,000.

late to the party on this talking point, the GOP primary was over by then, no body in the GOP campaigned there, Hillary and Obama came to the territory and campaigned for their primary voted, Hillary won.

Second, federal representation is a very different proposition. The median household income in PR is something like $16,000 a year, WAY lower than the poorest U.S. state. The citizens of PR are NOT going to be paying very much in the way of income taxes, but are going to get all sorts in the way of federal largesse. There is no way in hell such a population is ever going to send Republican representation to Congress.

they sent republican representatives in the past

You're kidding yourself if you think PR as a state will be anything other than a solid Democrat bastion. The Dems wouldn't be doing this otherwise.

nope, I actually know about how it works down there, compare NY latinos to PR latinos and you find very diff. thinking. I have the background, experience, and knowledge of the country to actually know how the state thinks politically

111

Theory...could this just be a ploy by the Aliksky-ites to get the party of no to look like even bigger racists on top of the mess in AZ??

 

112 However, the cynic in me is always suspicious of why democrats do what they do. And wanting to force PR into statehood undemocratically seems extremely suspicious to me.  That's all.

I agree, it does make me stop and think somewhat

113

Posted by: dananjcon at April 29, 2010 03:12 PM (pr+up)

possibly, wouldn't suprise me

114 Posted by: YRM at April 29, 2010 03:07 PM (38UQ3)

Well, I respect your knowledge of and familiarity with the place but I'm just not gonna agree with you. There would be no reason in the world for the congressional Dems to be ramming this through with no notice, using the same tactics they do for everything else they know benefits only them, if they thought that as a state Puerto Rico would send anything other than reliable Democrat delegations to Congress. The keep-voting-until-you-do-what-we-want provision in this bill tells us everything about what their motives are.

115 OT: women on subs? that's a recipe for trouble

guys down under the oceans not getting some for months, pretty thing is on the deck, the only chance at getting it? yep, wouldn't support that measure

116 How many of you folks who are screaming "doom" on this bill have actually gone and read it?  Its only one page long.

And based on past experience if this bill passed the most like choice by the PR voters will be "no change".

There are a couple of shitty things in it that the Republicans need to get amended ; one that permanent residents of PR be the only voters and the 2nd choice for Option 2 be reworded to plain English.

117

I question their motives.

That is all...Banana daqueiry please!

 

118

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at April 29, 2010 03:14 PM (wA1GG)

they also think hispanics oopose the AZ law, 63% of AZ hispanics like the law. lefty hispanic dems are telling them not to do it, that the territory is redder then they think, that's why the GOP is devided on the issue, they know the process is horrible but the state can be their Hawaii

119

Posted by: Vic at April 29, 2010 03:16 PM (QrA9E)

I agree 100%

120 Well, if they do want to become a state, they better be ready to pay the taxes and for Obama to take over theirs businesses, land or whatever else they desire to grab for his donors.  Oh yeah, they will have to get some Obamacare coverage or face the friendly IRS enforcers!

121 There are a couple of shitty things in it that the Republicans need to get amended ; one that permanent residents of PR be the only voters and the 2nd choice for Option 2 be reworded to plain English.

Posted by: Vic at April 29, 2010 03:16 PM (QrA9E)

Unintended consequences Vic and the timing is horrible.

 

122 Didn't they just vote on this in 1997? And 1982 before that? and 1967 before that? (I think it is every 15 years). And every time the overwhelming majority says they don't want to pay Federal Income Tax so leave things as they are???

123 Oh yeah, they will have to get some Obamacare coverage or face the friendly IRS enforcers!

Posted by: Africanus at April 29, 2010 03:18 PM (S2zwG)

I think you're on to something, how else can they pay for the HC bohemeth.

 

 

124

Posted by: Curmudgeon at April 29, 2010 03:23 PM (ujg0T)

1967- about 60% supported commonwealth status

1993 & 1998 - just 1-2 points away from being a state

125

1993 & 1998 - just 1-2 points away from being a state

I don't share your enthusiasm. Why has that vote to keep things as they are gone down?

1. Relative impoverishment in a welfare state means more people getting more than they take. This explains the declining deterrent power of the Federal Income Tax--if you are a net taker, the FIT does not scare you.

2. The "multicultural" balkanizing subversives will use PR to bilingualize and balkanize the nation, a la Canada. That's why the Left is all for this.

126 late to the party on this talking point, the GOP primary was over by then, no body in the GOP campaigned there, Hillary and Obama came to the territory and campaigned for their primary voted, Hillary won.

Granted all of that, it still doesn't explain away a partisan gulf THAT big.


they sent republican representatives in the past

No, they've sent Republican non-voting delegates in the past. (To be precise, since the end of WWII they've sent two Republicans and ten Democrats.) U.S. congressional representation is an entirely different matter altogether: once they have full-fledged representatives who can cast actual votes, the entire picture changes. Voting representation would be a pretty big deal for a state with a median household income of $16,000, in which the vast majority of the population would still be exempt from paying any federal income taxes at all. No such population of people in any of the current 50 states votes Republican. I would imagine the Democrats have figured this out. (The Republicans, meanwhile, are still too stupid to figure this stuff out.)


nope, I actually know about how it works down there, compare NY latinos to PR latinos and you find very diff. thinking. I have the background, experience, and knowledge of the country to actually know how the state thinks politically

I'll grant you that. But we all know how Democrats work and in particular we know how this Congress works. The idea that Puerto Rico would be an even remotely purple state just doesn't fit what this bill is attempting to do.

127

Just like the Republicans did when they controlled Congress.

Oh yeah, JEA, that Social Security Reform really just got steamrolled through, didn't it?

What color is the sky in your world?

128 The biggest issue with PR is perhaps as a State is it has English AND Spanish as official languages.  If PR becomes a State, expect English and Spanish as official languages for the entire US to become an issue.

129 there's an argument here the GOP and the base can use to prevent this mess from happening but arguing it would be a free lefty state (which I argue it wouldn't be) is not the way to go

It's a nakedly cynical attempt to dilute Republican electoral potency, or they wouldn't bother to do it. Let's stop being coy. Let's stop allowing them their phony humanitarian pretense. I'm sick of playing along with their script.

130
Crist is principled for lying and wasting everyone's time.

131
If Puerto Rico gets in --

 Puerto Ricans-- prepare to be TAX RAPED.

132 91 Puerto Rico is beautiful, wifey and I plan on vacationing there soon. You said it, dananjcon! Amazing food, amazing beauty. (I wish I knew how to make mofongo; all this PR talk makes me want that and a pina colada so bad.) One of my favorite places to visit in the whole world, with some of the best people in the world. Which is why I totally agree that we should leave it up to THEM to decide the future of their commonwealth, not create legislation to trick them into it because some people in DC think they know better than the Puerto Ricans what is good for them. (Though if they did become a state and got their infrastucture cleaned up, hallelujahl Unless you are on a toll road it is impossible to get from point A to point B quickly. But what about the no sales tax or income tax, and the tax incentives for companies stationed there? What about the crazy laws and fees for Americans to buy property down there, would all of that change? Major major change for EVERYONE, the one campaign promise Obama's administration hasn't broken yet.) Part of me is rolling my eyes at the whole slippery slope thing Beck is trying to sell, about how this leads to prisoners getting the right to vote; but part of me doesn't trust the current administration NOT to get to that point. Sigh.

133 Time for the land of "Not Quite Right" to go on their own. I am rooting for independence, they earned it. Now that Roosey Roads and Vieques is closed for business (At the behest of Jesse, Al and Rangle) I say let them go. Any Military Vet's who served our nation are welcome to retain their citizenship, since they paid for it in blood serving Washington D.C..

134 I think they are required to take the vote every 10 years.  I remember reading that somewhere.

135 There would be riots in the streets if they forced statehood against the Puerto Rican wishes. Notice some of the most Liberal Dems voted against this, most of whom are in Tri-State are districts. They would lose the Latin vote entirely. It's also important to note that there is a huge population of PR's in our military. This would cause more turmoil , and for different reasons than any of the Conservative blogs are mentioning. On this issue, Rush and Beck stand besides people like Al Sharpton. It's a great play at a wedge issue if the GOP can wrap their heads around it.

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137

How about warning Puerto Rican citizens of this US government trickery ??   They are not voting on whether they want to be a state, they are voting on if they favor their present political status. 

If they vote "yes" that they are in favor of the "status quo", then no trick vote for statehood would occur.  Anyone have relatives in Puerto Rico ??  Anyone know of news agencies in Puerto Rico ??     

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