1 I hope you're right.

2 It still sucks though.  Big time.

3 We'll have to win some elections first.  Let's start there.

4 Obama won't be there forever. Somebody'll run on exactly this promise and win, too.

5
The road goes on forever
and the party never ends.

6 Tearing the Muzztard to bits shall be my goal hence.  Libtards would eat your children for power, and pay back like Michelle Obama is a bitch.

7 Union workers are more than glad to game the system to get a bigger cut of the pie and very resistant to giving any back. That may be the Achilles heel to this craptastic bill from hell

8 Nothing is fucked here!

Naw, seriously, political dynasties will rise up on dismantling this atrocity.

9 How to thank a Democrat.

10 I may be wrong, but Republicans have never had 60 votes in the Senate, ever. (Well, who knows, maybe after the Civil War or something.)

I was actually looking at this over the weekend.

They've never had 60 but they had 58 and a filibuster proof majority (there were only 96 Senators) in the 20s.

I think the filibuster only goes back to the 1910s.

I doubt it was used much then.

11

I like your optimism.

12

I've got a photo of Obama fucking a nutria during a state dinner in Paraguay.

Let the impeachment trial begin!

13

Has the GOP, or anyone, done any homework as to which Dem Congress critters are vulnerable in 2010?

That would be a start.

14 We need to organize groups which can buy billboards and newspaper ads from one end of this country to the other.  Only two words are needed:

REPEAL IT

15 Don't put anything past Barry and his merry band of thieves, thugs, and liars.  I hope and pray we begin hearing just exactly what Rahmbo and San Fran Gran Nan did to extract the "yes" votes.  Would probably make a good Steven King novel.

16 We can choose not to fund it and repeal the bad parts (most of it)

Denver Post Objects to ObamaCare
In their single-minded quest to notch a political victory, Democrats in Congress late Sunday night enacted deeply flawed health care legislation that was propped up on misleading estimates and backroom deals — the repercussions of which will hurt this nation for years to come.
Read more: http://tinyurl.com/ybsyawo

17 The Simple Man's Analysis:

The American government is a giant failing Ponzi scheme.

This is a grand plan to steal money - a little from some, a  lot from others to keep the facade going.

Look into the details of our countries finances.

I think you'll find this is not as insane as it sounds.

18

Top 'o the mornin' to ya' ace !

19

I seriously doubt this thing is going to become more popular (or less unpopular) over time.

Quite the contrary, the more Americans see how this piece of shit is really going to affect them, the madder they'll get.

 

20 I'm pray you're right, it makes some sense that there is no big constituency for this. Lets get congress back and start playing hardball. the gloves come off now.

21 Down with the Pharaoh!

22 unless we can take away the voting rights of the looters i don't see how this is possible with out the as much as i don't want to say it courts.

23 Until recently it took 2/3 vote of the Senate to override a veto.  From 1960 until the rule change that meant 67 Senators.

The bill can be de-funded in the House if the Repubs have the majority and the backbone.  No funding, no Obamacare......

24

What if CNN is right - that 59% don't want this...but a large percentage of those that don't want it wanted the public option.

I think we need to try to repeal it, but I am not sure campaigning to repeal it will be a winning strategy. I can see it now - Dem's talking points about the mean evil angry bitter Repubs.

Why not put your efforts towards electing conservatives in 2010 and 2012 and 'gutting' the hcr in the meantime every chance you get.

Why not run on economy and jobs - America's top concerns?

25 I hope your right The question is will the hate for this thing come soon enough. Almost immediately after this is  signed,some seniors are going to get a 250.00  dollar rebate. Also students will be put on parents insurance plans till age 26. When I was 26 I had a 4 year old for Christ sakes. What I'm trying to get at is this thing is loaded to give the little people some perks right off the bat. The pain will not kick in for years. Sort of that frog in lukewarm water thing.

26 Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum told reporters the bill violates state constitutions by requiring all Floridians to carry insurance or face stiff penalties.

Florida lawmakers are currently pushing a constitutional amendment which would stop everyone, including individuals and businesses, from being forced to buy into federally sponsored health care plans. It would take more than 60 percent of Florida voters' approval in November for the constitutional change.

Attorneys General in Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, South Dakota and Washington state all plan to take part in the lawsuit.

A Caldwell spokeswoman says it's too early to tell if Louisiana will join that same effort.   "Whether we file one brief or join another one will be a decision made after talking with the other Attorneys General," said spokeswoman Tammi Arender.   "We'll do whatever is the most effective way to represent Louisiana."

27


HE'S ALIVE!

Obama care isn't the only thing rising from the dead these days.

28 The Ewok lives!!!! And he's in a bit of a fighting mood.

Good, we need to start planning for our political Battle of Endor.

29

I have had this song in my head all day long at work today, along with a vision of Barak, Harry and Nancy, they really are the new high priests of the Temple of Syrinx.

http://tinyurl.com/ykm72ad

 

30 On the net, everyone who has insurance now -- through Medicare, or through their employment, which is really part of their wages, paid instead to a third party to purchase an insurance plan -- will have to give up part of their weekly check to buy a pricey policy for someone they don't know.


And if their policy doesn't include all the coverage they may or may not want to be paying for (skim down a few posts )  they're going to get the "unacceptable coverage" fine on top of that.

31 Ace, if you would have called someone a baby-killer, I could have got behind what you said.

32 Next comes My jobs bill - forcing you racist crackers to build stone monuments to My greatness!

33

On our next wonderful cruise, you can only bring your significant other and a mating pair of ferrets.

34 The whole mess will be tied up in the courts for years. The Dems strategy was unhinged from the start.

35

I really dont share your enthusiasm about repealing it, I just dont see having a majority big enough to do it.  I'm hoping other people are right in their suggestions that it can either be defeated by:

1.  Finding it unconstitutional based on the Commerce Clause.

2.  States joining together for a Constitutional Convention to make it unconstitutional to mandate it.

Anyone know more about either of those possibilities and their likelyhood?

36

10 How to thank a Democrat.

Awesome, frank

37 Any Republican seeking election in 2010 needs to take three simple positions on this:

1. I will support any measure to repeal it completely.

2. I will not vote for any appropriation to fund it.

3. I will support legislation to leave it to the individual states to decide whether or not they want to participate.

Repeal will be tough until January 2013 at the earliest because Obama has a veto.  The 2010 midterms will tell how quickly item 2 could have some teeth.  Item 3 could come as early as January 2011 and really put the screws to Obama.

38

4
Let's not forget that Barack Hussein Obama is still in the White House. It would take 2/3 of both houses to override his veto. No matter how angry the electorate is, that's a high hurdle to surmount.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at March 22, 2010 05:48 PM

True, but the anger of the electorate is titanic, larger than the Democrats imagine.  Further, the Democratic Congressmen who voted "Yes" are not particularly brave, and the rest, like the Republicans, need only be brave enough to ride tha wave of public anger.  I can see a 55, maybe even 60, Republican Senate in January 2011.

Public anger is the key.  Those who vote for repeal should have little difficulty will be happy to be seen to hurdle this obstacle, the rest need only feel the public anger and sharp pitchforks.

The reality of no Federal, State, lobbying or any other high-profile job, ever, needs to be made clear to them.

39 DeMint, Vitter, & some other R senators are also looking at ways to repeal this in the Senate. Maybe the House should be studying this for after November. Anyway, lots of news & ideas being floated by Rs from both houses.

40 Constitution, schmonstitution.  I won!

41 At SOME point...somebody is gonna have to say NO to funding something. Start with the next time unemployment benefits need extension...just say no...we don't have the money. Gonna take something like that!

42 People won't want this repealed until they start paying the taxes and/or their personal premiums go up. Then they will start yelling about this piece of sh*t.

43 Dan Benishek to be on Mark Levin's Radio Show...TONIGHT 7:30 EST

44 The Republicans should be shooting for 290 seats. Veto proof majority.
Oh they won't get it this year, but that should be the goal. Ditto the Senate.
And once in, they really need to take a page from Rham-bo and take advantage of the economic crisis to seriously scale back government.

I'd like to see Republicans making the case for the private sector. Why taxes are bad, why big government is bad, and why private enterprise is good. 

45 Ace, I was afraid Nancy poisoned your vadka!

46 One more thing:  I don't know if enough state legislatures will get on board with petitioning for a constitutional convention, but (a) you're going to have a lot of state legislatures swing Republican in November and (b) you've got a few narrowly Democratic controlled state legislatures smart enough to appreciate the implications of the unfunded mandates of the bill.

47

The road goes on forever
and the party never ends.

My favorite Robert Earl Keene song.  Shit, I wish I brought my Ipod in this trip.

48 Not only can we repeal it, we can refuse to fund it.

Look ... you're right Ace that it will be some time before a total repeal can be done. Probably at least 2013 after Obama is removed from office (assuming he is  not impeached for bribery before then).

Until that time, once the Republicans take control of the House of Representatives in November and control the pursestrings of trhe nation, we should make it perfectly clear that Republicans will not fund ObamaCare and will grant tax credits to anyone who can prove they were required to purchase health insurance because of this law.

The law isn't a problem. Republican Congress' are under no obligation to fund this bullshit any more than Democrats were required to fund closure of Guantanamo Bay.

Repeal is an ultimate goal. But we should not lose sight of the fact that we have many legislative remedies available that do not involve the Senate and cannot be stopped via filibuster.

49 Good morning Ace.

Eventually this will lead to higher taxes, more debt, slower economic growth and less medical care.  Its a matter of whether the public associates these things with deathcare.

50

Thanks, Ace, for this post.  It makes suicide look far less appealing.  I figure that the battle is not yet lost.  In 3 years we can get a new prez to go along with a bunch of new legislators, and hopefully the new taxes and higher unemployment will have done much of our work for us.

In the mean time, as a backstop, we need to start organizing militias and preparing in-depth "contingency" plans.

51 So, tie it up in the courts, and in the meantime work hard to elect republicans to the house & senate.  Fight it every chance available, dig through the dirty details in those almost 3,000 pages and find every nasty gotcha Obama has planned for the middle class. 

52 When the time comes, I'll be paying the $750 fine, rather than sign over my freedom. Or rather, I'll be paying $749.99.

Let the IRS come searching for a penny.

53 If this bill start to have parts that people like, we need to go from not just repeal it but to fix it or replace it.

54 I think the filibuster only goes back to the 1910s.
I doubt it was used much then.

Posted by: DrewM. at March 22, 2010 05:52 PM (9B5OK)

In those days you actually had to filibuster.   You had to stay in the Senate and talk until someone gave up, not like the punk filibusters you get these days.

55 I just can't see this ever going away, short of the nation going bankrupt, which may happen.

56 This will never be repealed, so don't even try.

57 >>>The bill can be de-funded in the House if the Repubs have the majority and the backbone. No funding, no Obamacare...... I don't think that's right. This bill creates a "right" to goodies independent from revenue stream. If people have the "right" to this, they can sue in court for the government to provide it to them. And where will that money come from? Who knows. the courts do not specify the method of funding. They just state that the government has to pay for the thing.

58 The Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act was passed in 1988 and repealed one year later.  It was very unpopular.

It's been done.  It can be done again.

It must be done again.

59 I may be wrong, but Republicans have never had 60 votes in the Senate, ever. (Well, who knows, maybe after the Civil War or something.)

Ace I went back and checked a few months ago.  The last time was in the late 1800s early 1900s. IOW, over 100 years ago.

However, we are breaking new ground here. After 2012 when Barky is back in Chi-town getting blown by syphilitic whores we are likely to have large enough majorities and we will not need the 60.

After all, reconciliation can be used for anything now. We'll just do a cram-down repeal and say FU, we won.

The age of comity is over.

60

Here's my big fear, Ace.  Yes, people will resent this.  Yes, people are going to vote a lot of these people out of office.  But people also have very short attention spans.  9/11 is a recent example of how views (or at least level of passion) changes fast.   

So we're going to have people in office.  Heck, maybe even the Presidency.  We will be relevant again.  But we'll be starting on their turf, and there will be problems.  The left will always have a compliant media on their side.  In no time this will be spun as us mismanaging their programs.  And it will work with some.  Enough to be a real problem. 

We'll be the ones in power when it really hits the fan.  I think it will start at the state level actually.  We're going to be using the "problems we inherited" line for years.  And it will be most certainly true.  It will be obvious to us.  It won't be as obvious to everyone. 

This was part of the calculus for Pelosi.  This is why she led them off the cliff August - December.  Long term it will be worth it to them.  They withstand the lean years coming ahead for them and they will be able to build, build, build the gov't teet.  

As an aside, the voters no longer had any leverage over these, ahem, "Moderate Dem's" at the end, and this served the left wing well. Hell, may even kinda have been by design.  Their fate was already sealed.  Now only Pelosi and Obama have leverage over them in the form of spending our $'s in their districts and sweet sweet lobbyist jobs for them personally. 

61

Ace you're right:  There's no benefit here for the middle class, just increased cost, decreased service, and decreased choice. 

And:

     It takes Medicare Advantage from the elderly.  My mother had an operation covered by MA, but denied by plain Medicare.

     It funds abortion, and large majorities are against federally funding on abortion.

      There's no conscience clause for pro-life medical professionals, and most people favor that.

If the retirees and soon-to-be retired vote the way I think they will, this issue will be a Phyrric victory for the Dems.

62 Isn't under or de-funding, if passed, an amendment to previous legislation?

63

"ace at March 22, 2010 06:04 PM (i6ROy)"

I think you're right there, isn't that what the courts did for ACORN when congress tried to defund them?

64 Can't wait to hear what Levin says. . . .

65 Even crack dealers don't take your money and then promise you something later.

66 John beat me to it, but the constitutional convention angle is the most attractive to me on two fronts: First, an amendment banning this from ever being attempted again both insulates us from many elements of creeping socialism, but also takes power away from the feds. That is definitely something to be pursued. Secondly, the states are the ones most on the hook for paying for a lot of the proposed Medicaid expansion. Giving them a chance to fight back- to say nothing of most state legislators' desire to do something that matters- is more logistically viable than Congressional overturn, for a number of reasons.

67

Ace I went back and checked a few months ago.  The last time was in the late 1800s early 1900s. IOW, over 100 years ago.

Didn't Truman have quite a lot of his vetoes overturned?

68 Union workers are more than glad to game the system to get a bigger cut of the pie and very resistant to giving any back.

Once we get a Republican President with balls he can issue an executive order to outlaw public employee unions. After all, it was an E.O. that allowed them in the first place.

Since there are so few private employer unions anymore (all have been driven out of business) the unions will be dead.

69 We need a constitutional amendment.

Strengthen the 10th amendment, refine the commerce clause, balance the budget, fix imminent domain abuse, and institute term limits for politicians.

70 I don't think that's right. This bill creates a "right" to goodies independent from revenue stream. If people have the "right" to this, they can sue in court for the government to provide it to them.

I'm not sure about this, because the goodies are forced from the employers and insurers.  Defunding prevents the creation of the massive bureaucracy.

71 14  All of them, no one is safe.

72

Since there are so few private employer unions anymore (all have been driven out of business) the unions will be dead.

The sad truth is that private sector unions are dead because government usurped union powers and duties. Who needs to organize a union for better safety at work when you have OSHA, or better wages when you have "prevailing wage scale" laws?

And, of course, George Meany and Lane Kirkland are dead, and the unions are now essentially out and out communists. The days of hard-hats smacking down hippies are sadly gone.

73 Maybe, maybe not...but I think that as time goes on and people are paying taxes and not seeing shit from them (okay, you and I already see that, I'm talking about those who actually bought into that $2500 reduction in premiums bullshit)...maybe that'll be the start of it.

Hate to put any faith in the braindead constituency, though.

74

Talked to some older relatives today who have Medicare Advantage.  They are plenty ticked off about ObamaCare & the higher taxes along with the cutting of $500 billion from Medicare.

But, they didn't know about the end of Medicare Advantage.  They were incredulous when I told them about it.  The republicans have to go through the bill thoroughly and make page-by-page interpretations of the deathcare aspects of this bill. 

The loss of healthcare is frightening when you are an old person who takes five or six medications a day, and you are on a first name basis with your various doctors & lab facilities.  Senior citizen centers need to start receiving RNC updates to post on their bulletin boards.

75

All we need to win this is the one thing the idiots running the R party have never understood/appreciated.  A good propagandist.  The main failure of the Reps is the failure to communicate effectively.  The sad part is that our side doesn't have to lie - it should be easy as pie to put out a solid message.  We need some people who know how to stir up hate and discontent, and we need them now.  We need to create a new mind set in the public.  We need to make this, and a few other key Democratic crimes, stick in the public's mind like a nagging, festering thorn that builds up their resentment and hate.  It can't be that hard - the Dems give us more ammo every day.  They're trash human beings - they can't help but be the scum they are. 

 

76 Bob's got the weakest troll-fu ever.

77

The key to repealing it.... making sure people know the reason they can no longer get medicare drugs at Walgreen's is because of ObamaCare.  Making sure employers let the employees know, the reason they have to cut headcount to under 50, ObamaCare.  Making sure the Dr. tells the patient the reason they are going to stop practicing, ObamaCare.

If enough people feel enough consequences of from this piece of shit and make it loud and clear they do not like it then yes it can be repealed.  If not, then not a chance.

78

1.  Finding it unconstitutional based on the Commerce Clause.

When was the last successful Commerce Clause challenge? Schechter v. US? Put me down for denied 5 - 4.

2.  States joining together for a Constitutional Convention to make it unconstitutional to mandate it. Posted by: Grunt2Jag

It's already been pointed out that a Con/Con is difficult in the extreme because there's no way to restrict the text of the amendment to what you want it to say and the convention could remain open for years.

Repeal is likely to be the 'easier' route when we win back at least the House in 2010 and the CEO seat in 2012.

79 "After 2012 when Barky is back in Chi-town getting blown by syphilitic whores"

Please tell me the Republican Party isn't waiting until 2012 and pinning their hopes on maybe defeating Barack Obama at the polls?

Please tell me that's not the fucking plan?

Please tell me someone is planning on impeaching Barack Obama for extortion (Massa) and bribery (Utah) in the conspiracy to pass this health insurance tax increase.

Please tell me we have some real fighters in the Party and not a bunch of fucking panty-waists.

Please tell me we have some lawyers in the party who understand the power of an independent prosecutor. Who understand the power of a subpoena and forcing people to take the Fifth.

Please tell me we have some people in the party who want to bring these fuckers down the hard way.

The Chicago Way.

Please tell me.

80 27  Donna,  here is something I have been thinking about.   All people under age 26 can be on their parents' insurance.

So,  say you are an employer and are looking for someone as an entry level trainee.  Are you going to hire the guy with a wife and 2 kids who's 27,  or the 22-year old with tattoos and nose ring who lives in his mom's basement?   The 22-year-old gives you 4 years without paying a health premium.

Places like Denny's and Taco Bell are going for the cheapest, no questions asked.

To me,  this is age discrimination.

Am I wrong?

81 Good analysis in the post. I'm optimistic that it can be repealed. Let's make it happen.

82 6
The road goes on forever
and the party never ends.

Posted by: Dang Straights at March 22, 2010 05:50 PM

 

B double E double R UN

http://tinyurl.com/63p5bv

 

/dammit, now it's stuck in my head again...

83 No one is going to repeal this. Even Mitch McConnell said today they want to amend and reform this, he did not use the word repeal at all. He is just as much at fault as the dems. He let the senate vote happen so he could go home on 12/24.

84

My husband works and visits with small business in San Diego County everyday.  He called me this afternoon to tell me that every single business owner he spoke to today was PISSED and they aren't going to go quietly into that good night.

As he left each business today he said "Remember In November!"  They all clapped and hollered.

We are not alone.

85 Didn't Truman have quite a lot of his vetoes overturned?

I don't know, what I was referring to there was the last time the Rs had > 60 in the Senate.

86 What happens if the individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional but the plan isn't repealed?

87 I see your repeal and raise you thirty million Mexicans.

88

I see your repeal and raise you thirty million Mexicans.

 

And I can see them from my office window waiting to jump the border.

89 Does anyone think that John Boehner resembles Gigolo Joe from the movie Artificial Intelligence?

90 A'sDad is correct.  Just like the global warmists, I plan to associate every bad thing that happens with obamacare.  Train wreck?, obamacare stole money from infrastructure.  Flood? obamacares fault.  School shooting? obamacare stole money from the schools.

91 What happens if the individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional but the plan isn't repealed?

Posted by: DrewM. at March 22, 2010 06:16 PM (9B5OK)

Thats what I fear happening. They'll just remove the bits that SCOTUS doesnt  like, but leave most of the beast intact.

92 True, but the anger of the electorate is titanic, larger than the Democrats imagine.

Some evidence of this, please, here in NYC, either there is almost none, or multiple force fields and smoke screens hide it.  I'm not looking for great repeal anger here; just in the other 49 states.

93

look for the achilles heel in this Giant with Clay Feet

There are at least two

94 Welcome back Ace

95 Some evidence of this, please, here in NYC, either there is almost none, or multiple force fields and smoke screens hide it.  I'm not looking for great repeal anger here; just in the other 49 states.

Posted by: ParisParamus

 

It's here in SoCal Paris, believe me.

96 I'll repeal this bitch, you broke motherfuckers..

97 Thats what I fear happening. They'll just remove the bits that SCOTUS doesnt  like, but leave most of the beast intact.

That all hinges on Kennedy like I said this morning. The 4 commies would rule Obama king if they got the chance.

98 Levin's currently giving an American history lesson.

99 I don't see this ever being repealed. Much like the creation of a new federal agency, once created never destroyed (US Department of Education!!). Better chance of it being struck as unconstitutional. Using the Interstate Commerce Clause to force individuals to take particular action or be fined is a big leap.

100

Crap.

http://www.tinyurl.com/3owrkq

 

This site is sucks for links

 

101 The bill can be de-funded in the House if the Repubs have the majority and the backbone. No funding, no Obamacare...

If only the taxes and fees start now, if the benefits and payouts don't start until 2013, what will be de-funded?

102

The Republicans and Democrats left The Constitution behind a long, long time ago.

The ideological divide over the “issues” devolved into vitriolic arguments over which side gets to limit the freedoms of the other.

The Constitution was originally designed not only to limit the size and scope of government, it was designed to prevent us from using the government to interfere in the lives of other Americans.

We have conflated cultural, religious and social institutions with governmental laws and regulations, thereby accepting the rule of men as the valid foundation of our social contract.

We no longer live by The Constitution, as free men and women in America. We live our lives according to which men are in power in Washington, D.C.

We accept Bills of Attainder and Post Ex Facto laws as the rule of the land and dismiss Habeas Corpus as the realm of anarchy.

We dismiss corruption in the men we support and deride the same corruption in others…as long as they bring the pork – other people’s money – home to our neck of the woods. One side supports Social Security while the other supports welfare and nationalized health care…when both sides have corruptly and decadently used the government to take from one American in order to give to another.

We use government to punish and limit the freedoms of others while screaming about any attempt to limit our own freedoms.This is not merely the failure of our social contracts.

In the end, the failure is not only in our government, it is in ourselves.

103 The republicans have no one to blame but themselves for Congress passing this bill with only democrat support.

104 "YES WE CAN . . . REPEAL IT!"

105 I am not sure repeal is the best solution.  An annual fix or implementation delay would force the sheep to recognize that ever switching back to a liberal House is done at their economic peril.

Tack a delay until next year on to something that has to pass - and let the hammer dangle. 

106 It will be much sweeter to see the DEMS get cleaned out in November and then Obama lose in 2012. There is nothing more than seeing your opposition get a hollow victory.

107 read up on wickard v. filburn. commerce clause has been extended to cover interstate commerce is whatever the hell congress says is interstate commerce. if the USSC was able to hold that a farmer's wheat crop was interstate commerce, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE 1) KEPT THE CROP FOR HIMSELF AND 2) NEVER SOLD, NOT EVEN OUT OF STATE, surely there's no way we can win the argument that oBaMaCaRe doesn't fall under the commerce clause gird those loins

108

screw it.

http://tinyurl.com/3owrkq

109 someguy,  We cannot impeach until we have a majority.   Pelosi wouldn't even let an investigative committee set up,  let alone go with a full scale impeachment.

I am not in favor of waiting until 2012 to fight,  but you have to be realistic about what you can do.  Impeachment is now one of those possiblilities.

110 There's plenty in the bill that, bad policy though it is, is perfectly constitutional.

I just don't see how if you pull that bit out how you keep the rest of the system it doesn't fall apart even faster.

Of course, from the left that a feature not a bug...the answer is always more government and that means public option. Actually, if you pull the mandate you have to go to single payer which is just individual mandate on steroids.

Repeal Or Bust!

111 bleh-- interstate commerce is whatever the hell congress says it is.

112 poop! POOP!!!!

113
That all hinges on Kennedy like I said this morning. The 4 commies would rule Obama king if they got the chance.

Posted by: Vic at March 22, 2010 06:21 PM (QrA9E)

Or the Wise Potato Chips Latina. Whether she's a catholic first, or a liberal first, the abortion aspect of it might just shock us all in her opinion, but i doubt it.  I would hope she's an unbiased justice who would interpret the Constitution just as our founding fathers would have intended, but thats too much to ask for.

114 On a personal level, i feel like i have been kicked in the gut. My stomach's sour and I feel like shit. I am going to get fucked on my taxes (more so than already, I pay fed, state and city - fuck you very much NYC), though my wife and I don't make any where close to the supposed $250k (or is it 200k now) cutoff for additional taxes, they are going to move down that number to raise sufficient revenue to fund this debacle.

All I can think of is the scene from Aliens, where Bill Paxton's character is screaming "Game Over Man, Game Over!" And that pisses me off too, because I hate to quit and I hate to lose.

115

We have conflated cultural, religious and social institutions with governmental laws and regulations, thereby accepting the rule of men as the valid foundation of our social contract.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at March 22, 2010 06:23 PM (/b5Te)

A large part of that is the intrusion of government into what used to be purely private affairs. When Uncle Sam is playing daddy to so many, his actions have consequences that cannot be easily ignored.

116 #103

I hope you are right.  Maybe I underestimate the smarts of the more outer concentric circles of political/economic/history awareness, but my fear is that most people just hear about the "benefits" of Obamacare, and never hear or arent able to grasp all the harm and merde.

117

"Let's not forget that Barack Hussein Obama is still in the White House. It would take 2/3 of both houses to override his veto. "

Two words:

VOICE VOTE

118 davidt - you defund the collection of the taxes, the administration of the program, everything.  The anti-deficiency act can be a hammer.

119 Posted by: Jean at March 22, 2010 06:24 PM (CPefM)

That's the mistake they always make int he movies...the evil genius stops to make a speech and the hero kills him or the kids trap the monster but hesitate in killing it and it winds up killing them.

The second we can, we kill it. Then we kill it again. Just to make sure.

120 What is the purpose of government?

"This is history.  Today marks a major turning point.  Our Founders got it right when they wrote in the Declaration of Independence that our rights come from nature and nature's God, not from government.  Should we now subscribe to an ideology where government creates rights, is solely responsible for delivering these artificial rights, and then rations these rights?  Do we believe that the goal of government is to promote equal opportunity for all Americans to make the most of their lives, or do we now believe that government's role is to equalize the results of people's lives?  The philosophy advanced on this floor by this majority today is so paternalistic and so arrogant, it's condescending, and it tramples upon the principles that have made America so exceptional.  My friends, we are fast approaching a tipping point where more Americans depend upon the federal government than upon themselves for their livelihoods -- a point where we, the American people, trade in our commitment and our concern for our individual liberties in exchange for government benefits and dependencies."

121 Hate to get you off track, but we need to focus on what happens between now and November, not just what you're going to do if the Republicans win back the House and possibly the Senate.
There is a slim possibility of repealing ObamaCare because the real benefits don't kick in until 2013.  Until then, people are mostly going to see tax increases.  Nobody gets dependent on taxes.  It may be possible to overturn a Presidential veto after the 2010 elections if enough Democrats get the message, but there is one HUGE problem that needs to be dealt with: Amnesty
This is one coming folks.
And if The One succeeds in ramming it through, there will be an additional 10 to 20 million Democratic voters on the roll in November.  The Republican party did a hell of a job uniting in opposition to the HCB, but they still have a weakness for Amnesty.  If McCain decides to go bipartisan with this, not only will they get it through but a third party split will be unavoidable.
If Amnesty goes through, it can never be repealed.
 

122

Two words:

VOICE VOTE

One word:  Reconciliation.

Goose.  Gander.  All that.

123 Argh!    In #117,  I should have said impeachment is NOT one of those possibilities.

124 Can we tie it up in litigation until BO leaves office?

Then, once a Republican POTUS and Congress is in charge, can we flush the piece of shit down the toilet and be done?

125 Does anyone think that John Boehner resembles Gigolo Joe from the movie Artificial Intelligence?

Posted by: John Adams at March 22, 2010 06:19 PM (2jp4I)

Hey Sgt TexBobRockJohnAdams, does anyone think that Nancy Pelosi resembles Sam the three-time World's Ugliest Dog champion?

Sam

126 I'm not optimistic, for reasons already hashed out elsewhere. 1. The GOP will have to pretty much run the table in Congress in both 2010 and 2012 to gain big enough majorities to overturn the law. The GOP is likely to win big in 2010, but not big enough to get supermajorities in either chamber. 2. We'll have to beat an incumbent president in 2012, something the GOP has done only twice in the last 100 years. (Jimmy Carter was the last one.) 3. The GOP will have to mount an effective counter to the inevitable "the GOP meanies are taking away your free healthcare!" message the Donks will be feeding their base. 4. If the economy ticks back up -- as it is all but certain to do at some point -- then most people will be more favorably disposed towards Obama and the Democrats. It's inevitable -- everybody blames the President for a bad economy, and gives him credit for a good economy. (The good news -- if you can call it that -- is that O-Care will probably keep the economy moribund for quite some time.) 5. All the fence-sitters who are pissed at Obama now will probably get over their butt-hurt in a few months. Althouse, McArdle, and their ilk like Bammer and are anxious to forgive him if he makes conciliatory noises. I mean, yeah, he rode roughshod over the Constitution; but he's so groovy, ya know? 6. Historically, entitlements and bureaucracies are forever. It will take a magnitude of effort and a time-horizon that are simply beyond the capabilities of the GOP. In a party that maintains people like Cao in the House, McCain, Voinovich, Snowe, and Collins in the Senate, there is little hope for the kind of rigor and cohesion we'll need. Remember the lessons of Jumpin' Jim Jeffords and Benedict Arlen Spector: just calling yourself a Republican doesn't make you one. 7. Corruption and graft. The opportunities for pocket-lining in this DemCare vomit-pile are unsurpassed. It's even better than military contracts as far as opportunities for graft go because there's likely to be very little oversight or auditing. A lot of big players in the medical industry are going to jump into this pool with both feet and fight like hell to keep it in place because to many, it is a gravy train with biscuit wheels. I'd love to be proven wrong, but....I won't be. This fucking socialized-medicine nightmare is probably here to stay, in one form or another, until the Republic itself groans and dies.

127 @Miss Marple "We cannot impeach until we have a majority."

By November 2, 2010, we'll have a majority in the House.

That's enough to issue subpoenas, force people under oath, make them take the Fifth, investigate, harass, bankrupt them hiring attorneys. It is enough to uncover the illegal acts that were undertaken and the conspiracy that was engaged in to blackmail certain politicians to enact this abomination.

Please tell me there are people in the Republican Party who have the balls to do to Democrats what Democrats did to Richard Nixon.

Please tell me each and every one of you have read Saul Alinsky.

Please tell me.

128 In the end, the failure is not only in our government, it is in ourselves. Posted by: Warren Bonesteel

Way to be pointless. How did the fence riding championships go?

129 It took over a year for them to jam the socialist healthcare bill through, do you think they can ram amnesty down our throats in six months?  I don't think so.

130 Hahahahaha; on Fox the warmies are saying roses are losing their scent due to globull warming!

Folks you can't make this shit up!

131 Ya know what surprises me.  I am surprised they didn't include a tax on filing your taxes.  I mean really, everybody is required to have insurance, but if it is too good, why then we must tax it.  Just bizarre.

132 Some evidence of this, please, here in NYC, either there is almost none, or multiple force fields and smoke screens hide it.  I'm not looking for great repeal anger here; just in the other 49 states.

My neighbor down the street hoisted the red South Carolina state flag yesterday, also known as "Big Red". For reference, this is the flag that was flown by the Citadel cadets who fired the first hostile shots of the Civil War.

133 @ 135

If there aren't people in the GOP now who will do this, there will be shortly.

134

I'm waiting for my $2,500 reduction in premiums this year.  I pay 1K a month and if Obama's lied about this, well... ya know .. outrage, etc..

Seriously folks, what are we going to do here?  We need to organize and harrass these traitors out of public office.  If you're denied a medical procedure or medication, BLAME it on them.  People will anyway.  Its the dummycrats worst move ever.  They own this bill, and any medical coverage problems people have, they will blame Obama and the dummycrats.  Thank god

 

Also, we need our pundits on TV to teach the dummy's on air all about supply and demand.  Talk down to them, as they have no clue.  Its econ 101:  You freeze prices = Supply plumets.  It happend when Carter froze gas prices.  These idiots really don't think capitalism, supply and demand are true.  They're delusional.  Its like denying the existance of gravity or something.  seriously the pundits need to confront them on cable shows about this.  Hillarity will ensue

 

It'll reach a tipping point when enough people are denied a doctors visit because supply is decimated.  They can hope for Torches and Pitchforks... because it'll probably turn out much worse for them

135 The American government is a giant failing Ponzi scheme.

Posted by: oh, Hi Mark at March 22, 2010 05:53 PM (WuVvx)

And the theory is based upon the premise that someone else should pay my bills.

136

For being a cob logger, this Ace guy is pretty smart.

137 The demon has passed.

138 Make no mistake, this bill is intended to make the Haves pay extra to cover the Have Nots. In some cases it does so directly -- taking $500 billion from seniors with Medicare to give health insurance to younger people.

Actually, what's most interesting (and infuriating that no one ever mentions it) is that the treasonous dems are very happy to admit that no one went without health care.  They will happily tell everyone that we are all paying for the health care of the uninsured, as they clog up the emergency rooms are the hospitals are compelled to treat them.  But, oddly, they think up a solution (LOL) to that that doesn't show the savings that we should have for not having to deal with the emergency room treatment that all get, without this health scare insanity.  If we were all paying for their treatment already, and it was so so so expenisve (as the treasonous dems claim) then why isn't that money being saved as we put everyone on health insurance?  One would think that we would see hundreds of billions saved immediately - mostly from Medicaid, which is where much of the uncovered expenses are found.  But, instead, we see seniors being stolen from and where is that money going to?  To MEDICAID!!

Sadly, no one I have heard ever bothered nailing the dems on this.  I understand that there were so many problems with the health scare that it might have been missed, but it was a huge omission.  I don't see how the dems could have ever answered it, except to resort to their usual, "uh  .... er ... uh ... shut up!"

139

 

no you can not repeal until i get my ammesty!

 

 

140 I'm not quite dead yet!

141

It's nice to be a realist.  You're usually right.  Let's set our goals higher.  Let's be unbridled optimists.  Let's shoot for the stars.  Let's try to roll it "all" back.

ObamaCare

Dept of Energy

Dept of Education

HHS

etc

Nothing ventured.  Nothing gained.

142 You know what worries me? The Democrats are NOT self sacrificing types. They went at this in a fashion rarely seen and were prepared to burn bridges, twist arms, and let political careers go down in flames. Why exactly?

These are not people of integrity. I don't like it when I see people acting in a rather strange way that is at odds with who they have shown themselves to be for decades.

What is going on here?

143 I'm not saying that they won't ram through amnesty, but there will be zero republican support this time.  ZERO.

144

Hahahahaha; on Fox the warmies are saying roses are losing their scent due to globull warming!
Folks you can't make this shit up!~ Vic

Ridiculous.  I know that roses can be bred for a lot of strange genetic traits but you can't breed them to have noses and track hippies no matter how strong the hippies smell.

145 I'm so desperate for the touch of a man, that I've invited john ryan to come over and play "pet the kitty" with me.

He said he would if he were allowed to wear latex gloves and play Haitian Toilet Plunger, whatever that means.

146 puh puh puh pooooopy!

147 I'm not saying that they won't ram through amnesty, but there will be zero republican support this time.  ZERO.

Posted by: Countrysquire at March 22, 2010 06:35 PM (aMdQJ)

I will believe that when I see it!

148 McArdle, and their ilk like Bammer and are anxious to forgive him if he makes conciliatory noises. Posted by: Monty

Her post today doesn't sound that forgiving.

"Obviously, yes, I was upset yesterday.  ...  The people wondering why I was so upset should contemplate that first, I think you people just screwed up both our health care system, and our fiscal system (even further), and that if I'm right, that's not really funny."

149 My neighbor down the street hoisted the red South Carolina state flag yesterday, also known as "Big Red". For reference, this is the flag that was flown by the Citadel cadets who fired the first hostile shots of the Civil War.

I'm gonna have to find me one of those! I could fly the battle flag but I would hate for the NCAA to boycott me.

150 Have we already discussed the possibility of just unfunding this beast when we get control again?  Like the dems threatened to do to war funding, but buckled under the YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT SOLDIERS meme?  Aren't there laws on the books already that aren't getting much funding, so they're useless?

151 Re# 137 incognito
" It took over a year for them to jam the socialist healthcare bill through, do you think they can ram amnesty down our throats in six months?  I don't think so."

If the Republican party can unite itself the same way it did with Healthcare, then you're probably right.  My point is that the Republicans might not come through with Amnesty.  It wouldn't take more than two Republicans defecting in the Senate and it's over.

152
It took over a year for them to jam the socialist healthcare bill through, do you think they can ram amnesty down our throats in six months?  I don't think so.

Posted by: incognito at March 22, 2010 06:32 PM (u6X4c)

The problem is if the bill goes to the Senate, Voinabitch, McCain, Graham and the two scrunts from Maine would have to stand steadfast and I just don't trust them to do that despite what Graham said yesterday about all bets being off if they passed socialized medicine . When the media starts calling out the GOP as racist I just cant help but to think these guys are gonna put on their mariachi suits and stride into the Senate together strumming their vihuelas.

153 Of course it can be repealed what are we some kind of pussies all of a sudden?  Be resolute, work to repeal it, donate some time and work on a campaign for a conservative candidate, instruct your kids on the true meaning of freedom (especially the role money plays in securing freedom) .  Leftists enacted this, Americans can repeal it.

 

154 #135   I am SO with you on what to do when we get the majority.   I would even vote for going ahead with impeachment IF we can find proof of lawbreaking in office.

Definitely am for harassing them unmercifully, bankrupting with attorneys, calling for investigations of every single one of them.  I am also for bringing ethics charges on as many democrats as we can.   Also for moving Pelosi's office to the broom closet, denying travel funds and staff money, prohibiting SEIU people from Capitol grounds,  and any other thing we can think of.

When they complain,  we can say "We won."

Also,  we MUST get control of the media.   I am tired of those dipshits controlling the message.  Today I heard some reporter on the radio say that the stock market was up because "people are relieved health care passed."   That made me so angry I about ran my car off the road.

Also,  we need to defund as many of their supporters as possible.  GE, Progressive Insurance,  Hollywood, all of them...deny them money.   Look up donors and tell them why they are not getting your money.   That handyman down the street who put the Obama sign in his yard should get NO work from you.  

This is war,  and as someguy says,  we need to be using Alinsky tactics.  Make their lives miserable.

155

Posted by: sharrukin at March 22, 2010 06:35 PM (593B

An excellent question that I too have considered. Going beyond the destruction of HC, I ask this question about the crazy spending and borrowing. As I have said, it defies all logic and is not sustainable. They are acting as if there will be no tomorrow. What do they know that I don't. It is sort of like the guy who gives away all his shit before his suicide.

156 138 It's because roses live longer if they have no scent. They're being specially bred so that they don't.

^{/My mom is a gardening expert & member of many garden & rose clubs & societies.}

157 What is going on here?

Posted by: sharrukin at March 22, 2010 06:35 PM (593B

A Western-hating Indonesian injection.  The dem party is not an American party any longer.  They are foreign, as they have let themselves be totally led by the Indonesian Imbecile, which is why they are doing things that make no sense to Americans.  They are operating totally outside of any American traditions or sensibilities.  This is the danger of having someone who isn't a 'natural born citizen' as the Chief Executive.  Combined with the affirmative action protection of a Precedent's skin tone and complicity of the media, it makes for a seriously toxic and dangerous brew.

158 Levin - We now live to serve the state.

159
Well at least we do know the first thing this bill does fund.

 Axelturf trolls.

160 They didn't want the reps to go home and possibly be scared out of voting for the bill.  I think we should make the fury they experience when they go home AFTER passing the bill a dozen times more intense.

161 162 #135   I am SO with you on what to do when we get the majority.   I would even vote for going ahead with impeachment IF we can find proof of lawbreaking in office.

The bribes for last night's vote count as "high crimes & misdemeanors", don't they?

162 We can replace it more easily than we can repeal it.  Same result, better message.

As for 2012... Obama's almost certainly going to win the election.  In the meantime, we can lay the groundwork for 2016, when the GOP will run on a platform of fiscal sanity and genuine health care reform.

163 Vic, regarding roses,  many of the new ones HAVE NO SCENT.  I am a rose-grower and I pay attention to this.  The newer hybrids often have a week scent or no scent at all,  being bred primarily for looks and disease resistance.

So,  once again,  the warmies are LYING.

164 Like Rush said today, DO NOT TRY to fix it, blow it up and start over.  Due to the diareah spending we have going on, I think the american people are going to have to put up with some entitlement CUTS, I feel sorry for the future politicians that get to do that, they will be raked over the coals.

165

Unless you get 2/3 votes in the Senate and House you are not going to repeal it, at least not while Obama is President.  So yeah, it is an uphill battle. 

 

Sorry, but that is the way it is. 

166
^{/My mom is a gardening expert & member of many garden & rose clubs & societies.}

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby

If it were the ONT, I'd talk about my Knockout Roses.  But it's not, so I won't.

167 A repeal ainÂ’t gonna happen. What exactly are you wanting to appeal? Maybe bring back dropping for preexisting conditions? Telling parent “no insurance to your children under 26″? Reestablish getting dropped you if you get sick or have a serious illness?
Dems ran and were elected on the promise of HCR. Repealing is wishful thinking. It wonÂ’t happen. Trying to hand peopleÂ’s health care decisions back to the insurers and allowing the uninsured to be sent home to die will draw a similar ire of when Bush tried to hand everyoneÂ’s social security over to Big banks.Of course, thereÂ’s the concept that Reps would negotiate certain amendments or keep certain language. But theyÂ’ve repeatedly ignored health care for years. When they had the power, they did nothing while cashing in on Big Insurance contributions. Now that the footer and foundation is in place, thereÂ’s a whole new force that will resist its destruction. ThereÂ’s no reason for voters to trust the GOP and allow them to put their hands on their Health Care.

168 Her post today doesn't sound that forgiving. I'll bet you ten bucks that in a month or so she'll be over it and start talking about how Bammer is "tacking back to the center" or something. Ten bucks. They both voted for this douchebag, so in my view they share the blame for this miserable situation. (When I say "they believe in Bigfoot", this is what I mean. They convinced themselves that Bammer was a moderate who would govern from the center. They voted for a guy that existed only in their heads, not for the actual guy running for office.) Megan tries hard, but she's such a fucking girl when it comes to this kind of stuff. Althouse...I dunno. I don't read her all that often, but she strikes me as a pretty doctrinaire liberal in most respects.

169 Long term, there are only few ways out -

1.  Article 5 Convention

2.  Stop Withholding, wait for the Tax Revolt, bury the dead, then have an Article 5 convention.

3.  Chinese stop buying Fed securities, hyper-inflation, insurrection, ?

The Red Palmetto is a good flag for this situation.  Washington cannot heal itself, the States must fix it, before the middle class steps out.

170 Five reasons not to despair

171 Ace, I love the cut of your jib here, but mankind doesn't know what to do with hope! - Athena.

/Seriously, I love this post.

172

Posted by: Sally Ann Cavanaugh at March 22, 2010 06:36 PM (FRErk)

Well, it's a slight improvement over Bob.

173 I'm gonna have to find me one of those! I could fly the battle flag but I would hate for the NCAA to boycott me.

Should be pretty easy to find, according to the link The Citadel still uses it at sporting events and apparently they still fly it on campus to this day.

http://tinyurl.com/ycxz2ax

174 We can replace it more easily than we can repeal it.  Same result, better message.

As for 2012... Obama's almost certainly going to win the election.  In the meantime, we can lay the groundwork for 2016, when the GOP will run on a platform of fiscal sanity and genuine health care reform.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 22, 2010 06:41 PM (MT+0i)

So we go with the Christian Democrat Euroweenie thing?

175

Ridicule. Intense public ridicule, skirting the edge of legality or crossing over. Put out in public for thousands, perhaps millions to see. Not something on the internet. Not some puppets or hand-held signs. Something more like a billboard. Far, far beyond the Obama as Joker posters. To be inflicted on members of Congress and anybody else who has a hand in this.  Personalize - remember?

People like to laugh. It's got to be hilarious.

176 164 138 It's because roses live longer if they have no scent. They're being specially bred so that they don't.

Thanks, did not know that.

I guess the warmies didn't either.

177 "Levin - We now live to serve the state."

Levin should be saying: "To War!" instead of fucking surrendering.

I live to serve no man.

178 andy42302, love your liberal site.

179 Here's a sign of how popular this is - I heard on the local news that after this is signed, Obama's going to "sell it to the public".  Uhh...jackasses, shouldn't you have sold it first if you could on it's merits?

180 That has always been the secret of how the progressives shift income from the middle class to the poor...

That paragraph should be tattooed somewhere on the body of every libtard, 'independent', 'moderate', and other fools and useful idiots

181 @ 136 and Anonymous Coward, I've advocated on these boards that people should stock up on the beans, bullets and band-aids...and join or start a local militia. I've advocated that we fight against our government and said that peaceful means of doing so are almost at an end.

 People like you - anonymous cowards, all - said I was nuts...

 ...but I'm in good company...

"Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!"

"There never was a golden age of liberty, and there never will be.
People who value freedom will always have to defend it from those who
claim the right to wield power over others."
- David Boaz
Cato Policy Report,
July/August 2007
Are We Freer?
By David Boaz


 

 

182 We need a better Senate, too. I'm impressed by our representatives, but some of our senators would sell us out for pretty much anything the Dems gave them. DeMint & Vitter are trying their best to rally votes against reconciliation, but I'm not sure their colleagues are so intent.

183 I'm going to a McCain rally on Saturday (to see Palin).  I hope someone brings up amnesty.  He'll never make it to the primary if he is still for it.

184 Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at March 22, 2010 06:44 PM (xvG56)

LOL, I had already found that page to look at it. I will look for one to buy.

185
Here's a sign of how popular this is - I heard on the local news that after this is signed, Obama's going to "sell it to the public".  Uhh...jackasses, shouldn't you have sold it first if you could on it's merits?

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at March 22, 2010 06:47 PM (otlXg)

Obama is starting to remind me of the main protagonist in The Music Man.

186 Good post, Ace.

Apologies for the repeat, but I want this to stick in people's minds until they convince me I'm wrong:

This pivotal moment in history has shoved our nation's nose in what Jean Claude Revel (the philosopher) calls "The Totalitarian Temptation." We've seen in building since Wilson, helped by the New Deal, and amplified and accelerated by the Great Society. Obamacare is the last straw.

The Tea Party needs to recognize this historical moment and become the force that returns us to pre-Wilsonian, Constitutional Law. If they don't work to that end, they become just another gasbag, opposition group.

Repeal!

That's just a start.

187 Of course we can repeal it.

But we (we folks in the trenches not the useless GOP) have to educate a whole lot of people -- the "muddle" -- that conservatism is about *liberty*. We have to show them how their freedoms get stolen by Democrats and how this is absolutely *inevitable* due to what Democrats believe.

It is pure evil to enslave another human being, but it is the inevitable result of letting Democrats run the government, even "nice" Democrats who mean well (and many of them do).

A Democrat/liberal/progressive is someone who fails to see, or who does not care, that all those high-sounding ideals cannot be enacted without COERCION.

This COERCION comes from a fundamental lack of respect for other human beings, particularly their own judgments about how to run their own lives.

I want some respect!!!

188 Heh.  O/T per Fox:  The Greenies are claiming global warming is destroying the scent in flowers.  Some wag scientist responded:  "Flowers are not losing their scent.  Perhaps the scientists who believe this mixed up flowers with mushrooms."  (I paraphrased.  Bret mentioned this.)

189 I'll take a repeal on the grounds that "This screws most of us" or "this is horribly inefficient" but we're still in trouble until we get a majority to object on the grounds that "This is not a legitimate function of government."

190 So we go with the Christian Democrat Euroweenie thing?

No.  I'm saying we replace it, piece by piece if necessary, with policies like the ones Paul Ryan has been proposing.

Messaging it as "repeal" makes it sound like a vote for the previous status quo, which isn't very inspiring.

191 Republicans did have 60 seats right after the Civil War, and also for several years during the T. Roosevelt and Taft administrations.

It's entirely possible we could have that many again after 2012, when the Dems have a massive number of seats to defend.

192 The trick of starting the taxes early and the benefits late, to game the CBO score, will bite the donks hard.

193 179 Ace, I love the cut of your jib here, but mankind doesn't know what to do with hope! - Athena.

_*Ahem* Bwahahahaha!

194 Thanks for the post, Ace.  Good analysis

195 #194  Obama is starting to remind me of the main protagonist in The Music Man.

What's that?  Remember that there are morons here who ain't cultured, dude.

/Kidding - I did actually see an HS rendition of that play.

196 "Definitely am for harassing them unmercifully, bankrupting with attorneys, calling for investigations of every single one of them.  I am also for bringing ethics charges on as many democrats as we can.   Also for moving Pelosi's office to the broom closet, denying travel funds and staff money, prohibiting SEIU people from Capitol grounds,  and any other thing we can think of."

There needs also to be a resurgence of non-violent resistance.

Break their campaign headquarter windows (at night, so long as nobody gets hurt). They did it to us. Let's return the favor.

The 30,000 people who were on the Mall Saturday protesting should have all walked calmly and quietly into the House of Representatives and simply refused to leave. That's known as a sit-in. Non-violent revolution.

These tactics get people's attention and is a lot more effective than yelling from outside while your enemy inside rewrites our Constitution and the media makes up lies about you.

The time for polite debate has long passed.

Now is the time for all good men to come together, hoist the black flag and start slitting some mother-fucking throats.

197 And BTW, roses from the flower shop only smell like generic flowers.  No "scent" like you'd expect.

198 A push for repeal coupled with a counter-proposal, including exposition on the real numbers and what's at stake. The same things being argued by the Republicans in the run-up to this vote.  They had it exactly right. It didn't get the job done this time because the Dems had no intention of listening to them or acknowldeging the opposition of the public. Later it will be different. Not just seats changing hands in November -- a chance for the mood fo the coungry to register, including "Ben Nelson hounded out of the pizza parlor" type experiences.  

199 Don't make a point using musicals, that's the democrat's job.

200 @ the necks who want to fly the 'stars and bars:' last time I checked, that's a flag for a, um, losing cause. i use 'cause' lightly.

201

Don't make a point using musicals Nazis and the KKK, that's the democrat's job.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at March 22, 2010 06:54 PM (I1/U/)

FIFY

202 Messaging it as "repeal" makes it sound like a vote for the previous status quo, which isn't very inspiring.

Posted by: sandy burger at March 22, 2010 06:51 PM (MT+0i)

And when the Democrats are back in power? What then? They bit by bit start to expand the scope and power of 'your' plan until it is exactly what it is now, or worse. They have been doing it with other government programs for decades and are experts at it.

203 Here's a sign of how popular this is - I heard on the local news that after this is signed, Obama's going to "sell it to the public".  Uhh...jackasses, shouldn't you have sold it first if you could on it's merits?

This reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Vacation: after Clark Griswold has expressed his displeasure with the Family Truckster, the car salesman tries to comfort him by saying, "If you think you hate it now, wait until you drive it."

204 Krauthammer just echoed several of Ace's points on Special Report.

205 ThereÂ’s no reason for voters to trust the GOP and allow them to put their hands on their Health Care. Right, nor is there reason to trust the Donks to put their hands on it. The bill that just passed was clearly not about health care, but power. By design, or did they just lose their way? It doesn't matter; the bill had provisions to hire 16,500 new IRS agents. The last person I want asking me to "show me where it hurts" is an IRS employee.

206 someguy - its not quite time for slitting throats.  But the next time we need to put 100,000 on the mall - armed and peaceful.

207 "When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic."

_{from "Stuff Franklin Said" 3rd edition}

208 If I can't make a point using the KKK or the Nazis, then what's the point of living?

209 Krauthammer channeling Ace? The end is nigh.

210 If only the taxes and fees start now, if the benefits and payouts don't start until 2013, what will be de-funded?

Posted by: davidt at March 22, 2010 06:22 PM (4JjTO)

Think about it:  'jean' gave you an answer.  The enforcement measures need funding; everything government does costs money.  Take away the money and the programs die.

Unless those IRS agents want to work gratis

211 A few posts claim we can do tactical things other than repeal.  Sure, that's fine until we get control of the congress and POTUS.  But anyone supporting a primary victory of a non-repeal candidate is also supporting Obamacare forever.

Every primary until it's repealed.  No exceptions.

212 I don't get it.  Midicaid is for the poor who cannot afford Medicare. Only those who are verifiable poor get this entitlement. Normal people  on medicare still pay for a lot of things plus there is the bigger than life "donut hole." So they are going to take 50% of Medicare and switch it to Obamacare. And the people who have always paid into SS and have medicare, now find in their senior years, that the rug is being pulled out from under them.. and the have nots get the care they demand, and the seniors get the "Sorry about that, now go back home and die...

213 someguy,  I did my part at the beauty shop today,  explaining in detail (and in a LOUD voice) how this was going to hurt people and how all of the beauticians are going to HAVE to buy insurance or the IRS will come after them.

I got some people's attention,  enough that maybe they will go look things up or ask someone else what's going on.   I am not quitting, nor am I letting the eeyores and trolls who show up here demoralize me.   They can go sit in the corner.

We have to engage with everyone about this.  We have to educate our kids,  even if they don't want to hear it.  We have to point out what this will mean to the elderly,  to small business, to middle class Americans.

No longer will I be polite.  Polite gets you nothing,   as the democrats don't appreciate it anyway,  viewing it as a sign of weakness.

214 #209 - yeah- the GOP is a party of racists.

215 I got an idea--how about they start by defunding the IRS?

216 #212  This reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Vacation: after Clark Griswold has expressed his displeasure with the Family Truckster, the car salesman tries to comfort him by saying, "If you think you hate it now, wait until you drive it."

Great analogy.  Vacation - one of the few movies Chevy Chase was actually funny in.

217 We need to learn one trick from the Dems: Incrementalism.

They have perfected it. They build their house of socialism brick by brick, over decades. We must learn to dismantle this house brick by brick. Slowly.

Pick one little provision, publicize it, demonize it, repeal it, and then move on to the next.

218

We're ramping up production, even as we speak.

Bricks are the new Roses.

Get your BFF a hodful today.

Nothin' says Lovin' like a fresh Brick.

219 ThereÂ’s no reason for voters to trust the GOP and allow them to put their hands on their Health Care.

Posted by: andy42302 at March 22, 2010 06:42 PM (DD8Gy)

The federal government isn't supposed to have its hands on health care, at all, save a few minor bits of making interstate commerce of insurance regular.  But, you'd have to feel bound by our Constitution to come to this conclusion.

220 For those of you flummoxed be references to "The Music Man", just substitute "Monorail" D'oh!

221 "Krauthammer just echoed several of Ace's points on Special Report."

Er, Ace stole this post from the National Review.

Krauthammer doesn't echo Ace, dude.

Ace isn't even in his ballpark parking lot sweeping up 4-day old trash.

222 How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas? 

223 Rick Perry is asking people to text "HANDS OFF" to the WH. Meanwhile, I'm seeing reports that Obama wants his supporters to co-sign last night's bill. WTF???

224 ThereÂ’s no reason for voters to trust the GOP and allow them to put their hands on their Health Care.

Right, nor is there reason to trust the Donks to put their hands on it.

The bill that just passed was clearly not about health care, but power. By design, or did they just lose their way? It doesn't matter; the bill had provisions to hire 16,500 new IRS agents.

The last person I want asking me to "show me where it hurts" is an IRS employee.

Posted by: fluffy can still pay attention at March 22, 2010 06:56 PM (4Kl5M)

Their missing the point. This isnt about healthcare or even better healthcare for that matter. Its about forcing the haves to once again fund the have-nots and subsidize their healthcare, half who are illegal immigrants almost literally at the point of a gun or with economic repercussions and intimidation from govt. agents.

The IRS will literally become the American equivalent of the Stasi.

225 Unless those IRS agents want to work gratis

They are not allowed to work for free - that is where the anti-deficiency act kicks in.

226 Sheppy, STFU.  Turning off TV again.

227 Riddle me this. If there is a true "slaughter" of Democrats in November (including lots of "safe" Democrat seats) might the remaining Democrats have the fear of the electorate put into them to the extent that enough of them will support overriding Obama's veto of the repeal?

228 http://tinyurl.com/ya5mkf2
Yes you can! You can “sign” the Healthcare bill with President Obama. Here is an excerpt from Barack Obama’s latest email to his followers followed by a copy in it’s entirety.

“Supporters like us now have a chance to add our names as “Co-signers” of this historic legislation — adding our names next to President Obama’s to show our pride in helping to bring about this great achievement.

Organizing for America will establish a permanent archive with all the signatures, so that generations to come will have a record of those who stood together in this moment and won this fight for our future. And I will personally present all the names we collect to the President. Will you add your name?”

229

Jones, here's more Krauthammer from a couple of weeks ago:  "Christopher Buckley tipped his hand when he said, 'Watching Obama, I was beating my dick like it owed me money.'"

230 Can I dream about asking an IRS agent -- show me where it hurts?

231 It will be difficult to repeal it, just due to the fact that it's going to be hard to overcome a Democratic filibuster to repeal -- I may be wrong, but Republicans have never had 60 votes in the Senate, ever. (Well, who knows, maybe after the Civil War or something.) We've had it twice, both times at 61 members: 1869–1871 (41st) 1907–1909 (60th) Also, the filibuster requires 3/5, which was under 60 before all 50 states. So some of the times we had 59 and below probably count. Here's all the relevant information.

232 Remember that there are morons here who ain't cultured, dude.


AoS morons are usually quite familiar with the type of culture you get at the free clinic....

233 227 We need to learn one trick from the Dems: Incrementalism.

They have perfected it. They build their house of socialism brick by brick, over decades. We must learn to dismantle this house brick by brick. Slowly.

Pick one little provision, publicize it, demonize it, repeal it, and then move on to the next.

Posted by: Tushar at March 22, 2010 06:58 PM (KXhmI)

It begins in the schools. Especially "kollidge." Folks should pay attention to David Horowitz on this.

234 Off-topic. I thought of a way to torture Guantanamo detainees while still complying with all the rules of the Geneva convention and overcoming any possible objection by liberals and socialists. Just make them listen to NPR every day, the whole day, and then cap that of with Olbermann. They will crack like an egg.

235 A little OT, check out abc's description of Nazi:

"Pelosi, maintaining the smiling poker player's mask that is her trademark"

So a rigid botox face is now a "smiling poker player's mask"?  LOL.

236 237 Riddle me this. If there is a true "slaughter" of Democrats in November (including lots of "safe" Democrat seats) might the remaining Democrats have the fear of the electorate put into them to the extent that enough of them will support overriding Obama's veto of the repeal?

I doubt it.  The Dems are corrupt, but they aren't stupid.  They know this will eventually lead to the Dems getting even more power over people's lives.  If they really cared about the electorate (think of chumps like Stupidyak), they wouldn't have done this in the first place.

237 The whole origin of this cluster-fornicate is Wage and Price controls, which compelled employers to offer medical as an incentive to attract better employees. And by "medical" I mean the employers had doctors and clinics right on the premises (a la Kaiser Industrial). As soon as the government mandates something, the serious cluster-fornication begins.

238 238 - Hey, I wish we could get the Taliban to do that for us.  Will I be able to check that list before hiring anyone?

239

Jones, here's more Krauthammer from a couple of weeks ago:  "Christopher Buckley tipped his hand when he said, 'Watching Obama, I was beating my dick like it owed me money.'"

Posted by: rdbrewer

Thanks brother.  That's the first time I've laughed all day.

240
"Pelosi, maintaining the smiling poker player's mask that is her trademark"

So a rigid botox face is now a "smiling poker player's mask"?  LOL.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at March 22, 2010 07:04 PM (A46hP)

They just failed to note that rigor-mortis has long since set in.

241 Organizing for America will establish a permanent archive with all the signatures, so that generations to come will have a record of those who stood together in this moment and won this fight for our future. And I will personally present all the names we collect to the President. Will you add your name?”

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby, mad as hell & not going to take it anymore at March 22, 2010 07:01 PM (yfJ6g)

Ya know, it would do them good to have some nice, healthy, "moron-style" names supplied. Kinda like our old pal the "Peace Blimp."

242 235 Unless those IRS agents want to work gratis

They are not allowed to work for free - that is where the anti-deficiency act kicks in.

Posted by: Jean at March 22, 2010 07:01 PM (CPefM)

Exactly.  Every government agency has employees, and spends money every time any law is enforced.  Every dime that every govt agency spends comes from Congress, and ALL funding starts in the House

Take the House with a determined majority, and ANY program can be de-funded--and left to 'wither on the vine'

243 "How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas? "

First, have a blowout election in 2010. Blow the doors off and win a lot of GOP seats. Even with that, it is still mathematically impossible to override a veto. So hopefully some Dem rep/senators will retire and then there will be enough Republican governors to appoint GOP replacements. That's how to do it.

Second, convince the Supreme Court to throw it out. Enjoy the civil war that follows that decision.

244 Meanwhile, I'm seeing reports that Obama wants his supporters to co-sign last night's bill. WTF???

The names of co-signers will be assembled in a permanent archive, Plouffe said, "so that generations to come will have a record of those who stood together in this moment and won this fight for our future."

The names of the people who sign up will also be personally presented to the president, according to the email.

Wow!  Personally presented to the president.  Swoon.

245 How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas?

Only two ways it can be done before 2012;

Win some Dems for repeal or Article V convention.

246 215 someguy - its not quite time for slitting throats.  But the next time we need to put 100,000 on the mall - armed and peaceful.

Posted by: Jean at March 22, 2010 06:56 PM (CPefM)

Good thought.  That way, should the Dems decide to hand us a Kent State moment, the engagement will not be quite so lopsided.  Or, at least not against our protestors.

247

 

This health debacle benefits a miniscule portion of the population, but screws a greater percentage with higher taxes, mandatory coverage or fine,  higher insurance premiums, and last but not least, a fiery hatred for government never before seen in American.  Yes, we can not only repeal this monstrosity, but kick the liberal assholes to the curb.  

248

A little OT, check out abc's description of Nazi:

"Pelosi, maintaining the smiling poker player's mask that is her trademark"

You misread that.  It said Joker face...

249 227 - screw incrementalism -- pull the keystone, witholding, after that the whole leftist house cards falls.  Make every American write a BIG check to the government each year.  The original excuse for witholding was to "make it easier" for people to pay their taxes -- lets make it a little harder.

250

Jones, here's more Krauthammer from a couple of weeks ago: "Christopher Buckley tipped his hand when he said, 'Watching Obama, I was beating my dick like it owed me money.'"

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 22, 2010 07:02 PM (JRRxL)

Bwaa-haaaaa-haaaaa!

Ace always gets CK's best lines, dunnee?

251 We have our RINO DAVE REICHERT (RINO-WA) already stating that this bill will be very very difficult to repeal. "Trying to work in the new political world...Obama Veto Power... new bills... create jobs...  yadda yadda.

FUCKING SPINELESS ASSHOLE THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

252

Second, convince the Supreme Court to throw it out. Enjoy the civil war that follows that decision.

on that note remember we didnÂ’t come here for a fair fight, we came to win.

253 Posted by: RINO in Name Only at March 22, 2010 07:03 PM (HUdxK)

Until recent rule changes it took 2/3 of the Senate to override a veto.  The number needed from 1960 ( Hawaii entry ) until the rule change was 67.

 From 1912 ( Arizona entry ) until 1959 it would have taken 2/3 of the 96 Senators

254 >How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas? 

Posted by: Joe at March 22, 2010 07:00 PM (P/q7X)

Bricks, and fire.

Thank you to post #239- first time I've laughed all day.

255
Meanwhile, I'm seeing reports that Obama wants his supporters to co-sign last night's bill. WTF???



He wants to get them all on record as being co-conspirators against the American people and that they werent coerced in any way. Thats a smart mob-boss right there. Plus he knows that his fellow Dems are spineless cowards and given the chance to hold onto power would willingly put a knife in his back just like they did us yesterday. Finding out who got what in this deal would make Capone blush, I have no doubt.

256

Shocka..Shocka - In addition to Congress and the Senate:

For as long as the political fight took over the past year, the abbreviated review process on the health care legislation currently pending on President ObamaÂ’s desk is unquestionably going to result in some surprises.

One such surprise is found on page 158 of the legislation, which appears to create a carveout for senior staff members in the leadership offices and on congressional committees, essentially exempting those senior Democrat staffers who wrote the bill from being forced to purchase health care plans in the same way as other Americans.

 

 

257 Anyone supporting a primary victory of a non-repeal candidate is also supporting Obamacare forever.

Every primary until it's repealed.  No exceptions.

258 I'm agreeing with K-Bob @#243.  The first thing to be defunded of any Fed dollars are the teachers unions and universities.

259

The 18th Ammendment to the Constitution established Prohibition of alcohol in the US, driven by a radical minority that did not represent the popular will.  It was repealed by the 21st Ammendment.

If we can repeal an ammendment to the Constitution, we can repeal Obamacare.

260 Repeal it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

261 Sorry Ace, going to have to bet against you on this one.

262 Yes you can! You can “sign” the Healthcare bill with President Obama.

Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

263 59 This will never be repealed, so don't even try.

Posted by: Bob at March 22, 2010 06:04 PM (I1/U/)

fuck off already maggot

264 #267  Yeah, what a fucking surprise.

Wonder what other major shitbombs are in this bill that we don't know of yet?

265 I'm of the opinion that the protest marches have become ineffective... they;re just ignoring them.  The town halls are still cool, imo... as it makes fro good tv, which the news-media can't resist... especially local news.

Hey, here's an Idea >> Hey, how about bugging the living fuck out of every Attorney General who isn't on board with the hcr-lawsuits?  What if they got 100k calls an hour to their offices'?

266 We need to learn one trick from the Dems: Incrementalism. It's less a Dem trick than what you might call "political short-hand". Politicians of every stripe have used it for thousands of years. Make big promises to get elected, pay off your friends to keep an eye on your enemies (and vice versa), and arrange things so that you're long gone when the shit hits the fan. The pols who aren't smart or lucky enough to get out of office in time end up being shot or hung when the revolution finally comes. Empires tend to last a lot longer than democracies for a reason: ruthlessness and a near-maniacal focus on continuity of power. If you insulted the Romans, they invaded you, killed your men, took your women and children as slaves, burned your city to the ground, and sowed the ground with salt so nothing would ever grow there again. And to Rome, it wasn't personal -- it was just business. The business of Empire. If you insult and defy America, we will send a diplomat to kiss your ass and assure you that we understand your problems and are willing to listen. We are formidable in war, but our anger is short-lived; we want to be everybody's friend. That's why Rome endured for almost two millennia and why America will be lucky to last another hundred years. Don't get me wrong; I'd rather live as a free American man than a Roman slave, come what may. But the jerks, assholes, weaklings, and cowards will always outnumber the brave and true among us -- to give them a vote means to accept that the nation will ultimately die by suicide.

267

They told me I was Paul.

268 You assholes have no chance whatsoever at repealing this bill. 

In the words of Nelson Muntz: Ha ha!

269 Repubs, conservatives and even independents are all too polite. They back us right up if we even mistakenly allude to a possible un-politically correct word or statement and we all back right up in defense.  Fuck em!  I'm tired of being polite. I'll offend you and offend you from now on.  Just like you Dem assholes offend me every single fuckin day.  Now, back to my meditation.

270 The 18th Amendment wasn't pushed by a radical minority.  Large swathes of America were behind it, including big business who expected productivity improvements.

271 I am very concerned about the state of the economy, the value of the dollar, the massive spending increases, and now this. I hate to say it because I will sound like a pussy, but if they cram through amnesty and if jugears is re-elected, I will seriously consider leaving. Anyone know of any good places to start looking at? Learning a new language is not a problem.

I know the skeptics say that hey, Western Europe has "social democracy" and it's not too bad there, but reality is that they've been drafting off us for about 60 years. We defended them from Soviet tyranny and we provided the vast, vast majority of scientific and medical innovation, and without us things would almost certainly have  been very bad for them. And anyway, they are now collapsing too.

Yes, I know this is quitter talk, but I have three young kids and if I wanted them to live in a decaying hellhole I'd move to Detroit.

272 I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in. I'll sign it a few dozen times, no doubt.

273 Well, I have to disagree with Ace here.

274 Am I the only one who lays most of this debacle--I meanall the way back to BO getting elected, at the feet of the media? They are the Hessians to the RAArmy.

275 Bank Bailouts.... 30 million new customers for insurance companies...... AIG Billions... Paid for my neighbor's pool when he took out that second mtg he couldn't pay pack.... I pay for his lazy azz kid to go to school... and now I get to pay his heath INSURANCE..... what did I get..... a 13 dollar stimulus check..... not even a crummy tee shirt roflmao

276 What was I thinking?

277 Hey, where does the ACLU stand on personal mandates?

278 233 - what's the #?

279 SD officials study legal challenge to health bill By CHET BROKAW , 03.22.10, 05:45 PM EDT PIERRE, S.D. -- South Dakota officials are studying the possibility of joining other states to challenge the constitutionality of the federal health care overhaul, Attorney General Marty Jackley said Monday. Jackley said the measure could violate states' rights to govern and would aggravate South Dakota's budget problems by forcing it to spend even more on Medicaid, the state-federal program that covers health care for low-income people. "Medicaid is the train that's driving the discussion," Jackley said. Joe Kafka, press secretary for Gov. Mike Rounds, said the governor and attorney general will meet to decide whether the state should take legal action... tinyurl.com/yfpjtrn

280

~ "Proof of any anger ..."

Several previous posts have done so, and the tone of the MSM is one of Fear. Conclusion:the Prople are angry.

 

"How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas? "

1. Make sure that your US Senator will in fact put a hold on any Federal Jobs that are to be given to any of the current Demcratic Congressmen.

2. Make sure that your US Senator, or whomever is elected in your district, will in fact NOT receive any of the current Demcratic Congressmen as Lobbyists.

3. Put pressure on your State Governor and Government to withhold any State jobs for any of the current Demcratic Congressmen.

4.  When you find out where any of the current Demcratic Congressmen get jobs, in legal firms or large companies, try to find a way to either boycott the company and/or organize a boycott against any company that does business with the legal firm or company that hired the Congressman.

Make this work, for several years, and all Congressmen will be responsive to their constituents.

281 Belize is OK if you don't mind hurricanes coming in and leveling the whole damn places every so often. They speak English there. You can BUY a passport. But, heck, as far as I am concerned, this is the Alamo. Hmm, but then I remember what happened at the Alamo.

282
Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

Thanks. I signed as:

Babykiller Fetusmuncher

283 Even if it can't be repealed - it can be turned into a dead letter.

They didn't get the public option in there. So the inevitable demise of the private medical sector is arranged by lining up the dominos and pushing the first one over. But there are a whole lot of little places that can derail the scheme.

284 The big problem for us Yanks is that other countries actually ENFORCE their immigration laws...

285 Levin is on fire tonight. Says we must demand all of this happy horseshit that Obama and Pelosi have promised us proles. After all, they plainly stated that this "free stuff" was our right as Americans. 

286

A Man Of Principle...Or Something   [the corner]

The horrendous reconciliation bill that House Democrats voted to tack onto the horrendous health-care bill they passed yesterday would raise taxes even higher, spend even more money, and further penalize employers. But among the reasons House Democrats offered for voting for it was that it would eliminate (or rather, to make available to everyone) the “Cornhusker Kickback”—the special benefit given to Nebraska in the Senate bill, allowing that state to have its new Medicaid costs paid for entirely by the federal government (i.e, you and me.) That kickback was of course offered as an enticement to win the vote of Senator Ben Nelson, and to help him forget about his pro-life principles. Well lo and behold, Nelson has now announced that he opposes the reconciliation bill and will vote against it. Apparently it taxes and spends too much.

It really renews your faith in politicians, doesn't it?

287 I hate to say it because I will sound like a pussy, but if they cram through amnesty and if jugears is re-elected, I will seriously consider leaving. Anyone know of any good places to start looking at? Learning a new language is not a problem.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at March 22, 2010 07:20 PM (xvG56)

Research Latin America and the Caribbean.  There are some small countries that are a lot more like America used to be.  No welfare state, and a much less intrusive government.  I'm planning a trip later this year to buy real estate in my escape destination of choice and set up my bank accounts, which is were my monthly surplus will be going (and being converted out of dollars into the local currency).

288 Hey, here's an Idea >> Hey, how about bugging the living fuck out of every Attorney General who isn't on board with the hcr-lawsuits?  What if they got 100k calls an hour to their offices'?

I don't think Marcia Coakley is accepting my calls these days.

 

289 Joe:
How do we repeal this before 2012?  Anyone got any ideas?

We don't.  It cannot be done.

290 One thing to keep in mind with this is the burden this is throwing on states and state government.  California is on the brink of collapse, and they're going to get hit with more Medicare costs?  No matter how lefty they are, are they willing to let Obambi's great dreams run them into the dust?

Our state governments do have power, both to fight it with litigation and with the final power of Constitutional Amendment. They've got to be used to their best advantage while tactics are pursued at every level we have.

291 Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in. Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP) Thanks. I signed as: Babykiller Fetusmuncher I used my "L mail address" from lemonparty DOT org.

292 BTW, folks, I heard it on Thayrone's show, where he spoke with Doctor David Janda, that a huge chunk of this healthcare crap is buried in "The Stimulus Bill."

If you use the readthestimulus.org site, you can search for "comparative effectiveness research" and get a lot of hits.  Here's a critical one, showing that the Death Panels already exist, and are already funded.

This is what Speaker Pelosi meant when she claimed last night that this process was begun early last year.

This shzt sandwich is bigger than the sum of its farts.

293

Anyone know of any good places to start looking at? Learning a new language is not a problem.

 

 

Costa Rica.  A beautiful tropical setting, plus that's where most of the good doctors and specialists will be going.

294
289 233 - what's the #?

Send Washington a message. Sign our text petition opposing Obamacare!! Text "HANDS OFF" to 95613 and show your support for Texas' efforts to fight this unconstitutional federal overreach.

295

I apologize if this has been said before (left glasses at office), but a good first step is challenging the constitutionality of the mandate.  In my humble opinion of course.

All the while doing everything in our power to repeal through legislation.

296 Why would we want to repeal this?  Daddy Obama told us this is the most awesomest thing ever.  He wouldn't lie, would he?

297 "298 I hate to say it because I will sound like a pussy, but if they cram through amnesty and if jugears is re-elected, I will seriously consider leaving. Anyone know of any good places to start looking at? Learning a new language is not a problem. Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at March 22, 2010 07:20 PM (xvG56)" I think we are pretty near the point that anyplace will be better..... and that includes Haiti roflmao

298 It can be repealed.

Attach a one-line rider to every piece of legislation next year that states that the bill is hereby repealed in its entirety.  Force the Democrats to vote on that rider. Every Time.  Then hold a press conference to announce that yet again the Democrats have blocked the will of the American people by upholding this corrupt piece of legislation, despite being given one more opportunity to fix the mess they created. 

Let normal business continue, but keep introducing the rider. Thus, every week they will be given an opportunity to "right the wrong" they inflicted.  The issue would not go away.  Every week the Democrats would get a fresh chance to anger the American people.

How long do you think it would take -- especially if Democrats' poll numbers keep dropping -- before they would repeal the damn bill (and override a Presidential veto) just to stop the political bleeding?

I'd say it would be gone by August 2011.

299 I don't think Marcia Coakley is accepting my calls these days. Her switchboard will receive the call. It would be fun to tie up her lines.

300 Stupak speaking with Megyn Kelly this afternoon.....


Stupak said there is nothing that would prevent the President from overturning the EO 1 month, 6 month & 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

301 282 The Republic of Texas

302 i'm currently engaged in a wikipedia battle with some anonymous liberal on the obamacare page. I changed the deficit impact section to actually be realistic and it keeps getting edited out pretty damned quick. If my fellow morons would be interested in helping me keep it up that would be great. http://tinyurl.com/yksmfto

303 Have any congressional R's displayed any "well we tried, time to move on and tackle other problems" squimishness?  I'm thinking specifically of the Maine Twins. 

The longer we go without any "let's not repeal this, let's try to make it better" from our side, the better our shot at actually getting something done.  If/As soon as one breaks off, we're in trouble.

304
Levin is on fire tonight. Says we must demand all of this happy horseshit that Obama and Pelosi have promised us proles. After all, they plainly stated that this "free stuff" was our right as Americans. 

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 22, 2010 07:24 PM (554T5)

You may be onto something there. perhaps we should sock/puppet lefty PACS and blogs as liberals demanding that we want our f'cking fries and burgers now, not in four years.

305 Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

I'm not very clever about these things, but signing up as "Benedict Arnold" should convey my sentiment on the matter adequately.

306 Dianne Sawyer just finished slobbering all over San Fran Nan. She's so powerful! Oooh! Let's all give her a hand. But if Bush had done this...Oh, wait, he never could have done this, because the media wouldn't have let him get away with it. My bad.

307 Gotta go make the dinner.  Before Obamacare says we have to eat only approved bags of senior chow #666

308 Ghost of Lee Atwater -- your supposed to go towards the sound of the guns, not away.

309

Dr. Benishek is coming up on Levin

Oh, and I think "Bob" is a froll

310

Her switchboard will receive the call. It would be fun to tie up her lines.

I may need to do that *67 thingy to block out my number.  I was one of the Scott Brown stalkers she whined about. 

311
I was just listening to some guy on the radio say how much ObamaCare is costing us per minute.

per minute.  

TAX-payer funded health care certainly isn't free.

312 Before I go, this bears repeating (until you tell me stfu):

Anyone supporting a primary victory of a non-repeal candidate is also supporting Obamacare forever.

Every primary until it's repealed.  No exceptions.

313 Seriously, do you think we could get the ACLU on board the no-mandate bandwagon?  What a great counter-argument to any Dem who says its perfectly constitutional... "then why is the ACLU filing a lawsuit?"

314 317 Dianne Sawyer just finished slobbering all over San Fran Nan. She's so powerful! Oooh! Let's all give her a hand. But if Bush had done this...Oh, wait, he never could have done this, because the media wouldn't have let him get away with it. My bad.

Just confirms further that libs are power worshipers. 

The only hand San Fran Nan should be getting soon is a hand taking her away from the Speaker's podium. 

315 314 Have any congressional R's displayed any "well we tried, time to move on and tackle other problems" squimishness?  I'm thinking specifically of the Maine Twins. 

Only from the usual suspects in the Senate. From what I've seen on many other congressmen & womens' web pages, though, they are ready to fight. Some have already written bills or are in the process of so doing. The governors & AGs are louder on this one right now, though. 

316

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

--Ben Dover is on board.

317 324 Seriously, do you think we could get the ACLU on board the no-mandate bandwagon?  What a great counter-argument to any Dem who says its perfectly constitutional... "then why is the ACLU filing a lawsuit?"

One problem - do you think the ACLU actually cares about that?  Hell, they're probably supporting it to the hilt.

318
Seriously, do you think we could get the ACLU on board the no-mandate bandwagon?  What a great counter-argument to any Dem who says its perfectly constitutional... "then why is the ACLU filing a lawsuit?"

Posted by: Smapty at March 22, 2010 07:35 PM (bAySe)

Yea, and while you're at it, get the SPLC to take up the case too.

319

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but take a look at how excited people are according to this MSNBC poll and give 'em your two cents.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall when their staff sees these numbers.

http://tinyurl.com/yc62mdj

 

 

320 175 - Good points.

I think you are probably right. I'm inclined to believe the goals set out are all worthy ones, however the implementation is horrible. While "repeal this bitch" has a certain emotional appeal to it, we are going to have to do better than that. We are going to need a replacement plan that still meets the goals but doesn't sacrifice our liberty or bankrupt our country.

321

The only hand San Fran Nan should be getting soon is a hand taking her away from the Speaker's podium. 

San Fran Nan has man hands.  Freakishly big.

322

It really renews your faith in politicians, doesn't it?

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at March 22, 2010 07:26 PM (0fzsA)

Ben Nelson deciding to vote against reconciliation (thus hanging on to the Cornhusker Kickback) doesn't surprise me in the least.  What surprises me is that ostensibly some House Democrats expect ANY Democrat Senator to vote for reconciliation.  Since the House passed exactly the same bill that all 60 Democrat Senators voted for, what possible motivation do they have to change it?  House Democrats who say they voted for the Senate bill on the assurance that it would be fixed with the reconciliation bill are either monumentally manipulative, monumentally self-deluded, or monumentally stupid.

323

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but take a look at how excited people are according to this MSNBC poll and ;">give 'em your two cents.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall when their staff sees these numbers.

http://tinyurl.com/yc62mdj

 

Posted by: RushBabe at March 22, 2010 07:38 PM (LKkE

Nice. Thats an MSDNC poll at that which means conservatives dont go out of their way to go there. It will most likely get forced down the memory hole here shortly so I hope someone gets a screenshot.

324 Dr Benishek is on Mark Levin's show right now.  He needs some high-level expertise to step in and help take advantage of this opportunity.  Somebody in AoS land surely has the ability to help on. 

I don't me him personally, he's an everyday man, what we need.  But he needs organizational help toot sweet. 

325 330

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but take a look at how excited people are according to this MSNBC poll and ;">give 'em your two cents.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall when their staff sees these numbers.

WOW! Thanks for posting the link. I just voted.

326
not per minute - per hour.

Colorado tax payers will pay $179,000.00 per hour for Obamacare.

327 "Until recent rule changes it took 2/3 of the Senate to override a veto."

It still takes a 2/3 vote of BOTH chambers to override a veto.  That's in the Constitution, not the House and Senate Rules.

328

I don't me him personally, he's an everyday man, what we need.  But he needs organizational help toot sweet. 

He should get in touch with Scott Brown's people. 

329 O/T  Mark Levin just interviewed the opponent to Bart Stupak-and has endorsed him!  He is linking him to his website.  We MUST defeat Stupak.

330
We need to concentrate on winning the House, first.

331 I really don't see how personal-mandates is not a direct violation of "civil liberties".

It wouldn't hurt to ask.

332
330
Voted.

Notice the vote totals match the polls.  A majority of Americans don't want it.

333 Posted by: Mark L at March 22, 2010 07:29 PM (yjqd5)


Attach it to everything. Attach it to every little bill, even the ones declaring next Monday as National Siamese Cat Appreciation Day.

334

Sorry if someone has already posted this, but take a look at how excited people are according to this MSNBC poll and give 'em your two cents.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall when their staff sees these numbers.

Thanks for that.  The Angry's have it 68%....

335 You are absolutely right.

There's a lot of pain before anyone sees any gain.

Repeal the bitch.

336
I really don't see how personal-mandates is not a direct violation of "civil liberties".

It wouldn't hurt to ask.

Posted by: Smapty at March 22, 2010 07:42 PM (bAySe)

Oh, it is, its just that it hurts freedom loving peoples personal liberties, namely conservatives, so the ACLU wont give a damn.

337

330

Wow.. that was great over at Messnbc.  60 some % hate the bill.  Chrissy will cry all over his tingle

338 The MSNBC poll is heartening, but here's the thought process of those we are up against:

"This (Obamacare) brings a step closer to other industrial nations that are able to see that a healthy nation is a healthy nation."

Yes, because when I think of a "healthy nation", I immediately think of Britain and the NHS.

339
We need to call all the Republicans in Congress and implore them to hold town hall meetings in all their constituencies.

Raise awareness. Talk to the people. Get people involved.

And it will make for GREAT campaign videos for commercial. Average Americans coming together, voicing their concerns and outrage.

340

Oh, it is, its just that it hurts freedom loving peoples personal liberties, namely conservatives, so the ACLU wont give a damn.

They would be more apt to argue that health care is a right.

341 How does the ACLU elect/appoint their leadership?

342 I signed up Nickolai Lenin and Harry Vagina.

343 I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Done.

Yours,
Heywood Jablome

344

He should get in touch with Scott Brown's people.

Wasn't that Mitt??

345 340 O/T  Mark Levin just interviewed the opponent to Bart Stupak-and has endorsed him!  He is linking him to his website.  We MUST defeat Stupak.

Indeed.  Too bad he still won't see the folly of his ways.

346 loppy,

That may be so... but they can simultaneously argue a mandate is violation of CLs.

347 Dude, of the 600k people who have voted on an MSNBC poll...

Angry. This legislation will harm the economy while mandating a government takeover of the health care system.400,436 votes
MSNBC.  MSNBC.

348 @ 110 amen

349 http://bit.ly/crSefu

350

I'm just waiting for the first person to show up at the hospital or doctor's office, demanding their "free" healthcare - it's gonna be epic when someone tells them that they won't be covered under that until 2014. 

Also, when people start to read the bill and realize that a $12,000 "Bronze" policy for a family of 4 will only cover 60% of the cost of care (or the high-end $15,000 "Gold" policy will still only cover 85% of costs).  That's gonna have folks howling like nobody's business - and that's where you're going to be able to strike down this monstrosity. 

Everyone thinks they're going to get all of these goodies for free - when they figure out that they are going to end up paying more out of their paycheck than they were before, you will see this thing decimated.

And Democrats own EVERY. LAST. WORD. OF. IT.

351 316 Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

I'm not very clever about these things, but signing up as "Benedict Arnold" should convey my sentiment on the matter adequately.

Posted by: Reactionary at March 22, 2010 07:32 PM (4nbyM)

I signed-up as Yur Eayness and entered an ACORN email address with a Texas zipcode.

352 I think that 'sign health care' page was just signed by Mike Hunt and Dick Stroker.

353 MSNBC doesn't have 600K viewers, much less 600K willing to go to their website and fill out a poll.  WTF

354 It is, in fact, repealable, imminently so. Having said that, it won't happen anytime soon (from a legislative perception), and it may not happen at all. And furthermore, this may just be the beginning of a string of defeats, depending upon the squish GOPers in the Senate, so stand by for heavy rolls.

Of course, as is usual in these kind of struggles "Neither party expected...the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained", so don't be overly surprised if this turns out to be a ten year slog. It could be a lot shorter, but most likely won't be, because men are rarely able to do the right thing when it needs to be done if it is going to cost them personally, and that is the greatest stumbling block right now for the GOP. It will be given a boost this November. That boost will not be enough. Further gains will be dependent upon the GOP facing up to its past problems, because as it is today that party is not going  to be given a blank check come 2012. Sorry, true statement. It is going to have to change, and I for one have no great desire to really see it change. I want to see it dead, stone cold dead. But I'm told repeatedly that since the big baby will not allow challengers, and that a two-party system is the only possible way, but that the party itself will not change, I'm left with little option, am I? GOP or bust--except that it may be GOP and bust. 

So the GOP has a problem that only it can address, it alone, and until it does so, it will be able to stop the damage come November, but not reverse this health care bill till the coming financial crisis hits in a decade or two.

But for the record, though it may be the way forward, I think I am like many others that right now though it is needed, I do not love the GOP and have no intention of doing so. Its leaders should realize they have not been vindicated by the change in public opinion towards them, they are just unfortunately the last best hope. So I have no intention of encouraging them in thinking that bygones are bygones. For they are not. Its just there is something else to worry about for the moment. But perhaps later, at another time...if nothing else, when the histories are writ..there will be a reckoning. 

355 Hoo Flung Du should sign it as well.

356 273 Yes you can! You can “sign” the Healthcare bill with President Obama.

Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

I signed up as Josef Mengele. They're going to have quite the list before they are through have to scrap the whole idea.

357

Wasn't that Mitt??

In a way, yes.  Shawmut Group - former aides to Mitt.

358
How does the ACLU elect/appoint their leadership?

Posted by: Smapty at March 22, 2010 07:45 PM (bAySe)

The same way Massachussetts and New Jersey used to. They would have elected a ham sandwich as long as it had a (D) before it if given a chance. However given recent events they have for the time being redeemed themselves.

359 Filibuster?

FILIBUSTER???

FUCK THE GODDAMN FILIBUSTER.

We've got precedent now.

51 votes, that's all it takes.

216, that's all it takes.

The Dems can suck it if they don't like it.

360 DED = "Defeat Every Democrat" Nothing will change until the democrats are routed & defeated. They are planning a push on immigration reform next. We have to take back the house in 2010 and then the Senate and the Presidency in 2012 before we have a chance at repeal. Trust me. People won't stand for the amount of taxes that will be taken in the next three years. Especially young people. And put the health insurance mandate on top of that - if they have jobs they will feel like they are spinning in circles. And if they don't have a job they will get real tired of eating Mac & Cheese with the crappy unemployment benefits they get. The lower classes will have to get with it or die on the vine. I am tired of carrying their fat asses.

361 362 Some congresswoman from last night made it sound like people could start demanding their "free" health care today. Wonder if anyone tried it.

362

I signed up as Josef Mengele. They're going to have quite the list before they are through have to scrap the whole idea.

Nice. I hosie Hugo! 

363 perhaps we should sock/puppet lefty PACS and blogs as liberals demanding that we want our f'cking fries and burgers now, not in four years.

Exactly.

364

Glad to see you weigh in Ace.  You are right.  We have had our time to begin the stages of grief.  We need to stay stuck on ANGER and devote our time and money to throwing them all out and repealing this monster.

I keep having dark thoughts about what should be done with Nancy Pelosi's big gavel.

 

365 The Addams Family all want their signatures on Pandemonicare. Every last one of them, individually (that took me....errrr, them....awhile).

366 348

330

Wow.. that was great over at Messnbc.  60 some % hate the bill.  Chrissy will cry all over his tingle

Posted by: NY Betsy Rose at March 22, 2010 07:44 PM (QA/sy)

His tingle will soon turn into a syphiltic burn.

367 Of course repeal should be the first goal.  Failing that, which would require a signature of the president or a 2/3 majority of the house and senate, the house or senate could cut off spending/authorization and they don't need the signature of the president for that.  If congress does not authorize money for the budget on an annual bases, the government gets shut down.  If these pukes want to play Stalin, let's show them what scorched earth really means.  The second goal should be an inquiry in to all efforts that were made to subvert the Constitution.

368 Hoo Flung Du should sign it as well. Biggus Dickus and Impedimenta Buttocks should sign as husband and wife.

369

I signed up as 'Bull' Connor and Robert "Sheets" Byrd, two stalwarts of the Dumbascrap party.

Oh yea, Bart The Babykiller too.

370 Sorry if someone has already posted this, but take a look at how excited people are according to this MSNBC poll and ; font-style: italic;">give 'em your two cents.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall when their staff sees these numbers.

Voted.  I doubt they will show it if the Angry Mob is ahead by a large margin.

371 Should we start making phone calls en masse to the Republican senators? A concentrated effort on that may show we're serious, as well.

I know the Senate feels the House is beneath their contempt, but the House Rs (+ some Dems) gave their all for this last night. [Rush even had a letter that Cao sent to Obama.] It would be a shame if their colleagues in the Senate wasted all that hard work.

/However, I won't be surprised if/when they do.

372

380

"Bart the baby killer"

I LIKE that!

373 Ace,

Just a thought.  One would not require 60 Senators to repeal this through the Senate.  Using reconciliation, one can use 50+1 if it creates budgetary savings.  So, if removing the bill creates savings, reconciliation can be used.

Wouldn't that be sweet?

374

Obama's bill is simply an method of giving reparations. the poor raises by rescinding raises from everyone else.

 

 

fixed.

375 Incontinentia Buttocks is the proper name (Love me some Monty Python)

376

I think you are probably right. I'm inclined to believe the goals set out are all worthy ones, however the implementation is horrible. While "repeal this bitch" has a certain emotional appeal to it, we are going to have to do better than that. We are going to need a replacement plan that still meets the goals but doesn't sacrifice our liberty or bankrupt our country.

 

 

How about the plan set forth be the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.  Is that good enough?

377 Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP)

I think that people should use the same fake names they used when it was discovered that the Indonesian Imbecile's campaign web site was taking totally illegal anonymous campaign donations accepting any name, as they had intentionally disabled the AVS, (I think it was Pam Geller starting it all by donating as John Galt) and people were rushing to make fake donations to prove the crime - which McShame didn't care about, nor the FEC.  That would really throw the White House, as they recognized the names as part of their donor base.

378 Jack Manmeat also signed up.

379 Just to add on to Ace's points, the fact that Nobama and the Dems have oversold the bill.  When businesses start off loading their employees into the goverment exchange, unemployment stays high, GDP goes nowhere fast or we have a double dip, premiums go up not down, costs don't come down. Basically everything the Dems promised, that don't come true, will help with the repeal it theme.  All the Reps. have to do is remind the voters who it was that brought the misery.  As for the cries from the Dems. that the Reps. want to take away your health care, well that will only resonate with the small portion of the electorate who already vote Dem anyway. 

380

Obama's bill is simply an method of giving reparations. the poor raises by rescinding raises from everyone else.

 

 

fixed.

Posted by: Terry at March 22, 2010 07:55 PM (TJ8HB)

Beck touched on this today, however, every action has an opposite reaction and the Dems are the king and queens of unintended circumstances. The more they take from us, the more we stop spending where most of their constituency is employed or willingly giving to charitable causes.

Socialism works, right up until you run out of other peoples money to give away.

381

Bullshit.

I went Galt, a year and a half ago, before this nation's pussies voted in Obama.  I was close, back before this nation voted in Democrat majorities in 2006.  I no longer pay the taxes you pay.  I no longer have to spend half my income supporting the lazy Hobo scum.  Anybody that bothers to earn their pay in this country is a fool.

Anybody that thinks they are going to repeal this ObamaCare nonsense and incrementaly drag this country back to fiscal sanity has not been paying attention.

For myself, I deny my productivity from the pool; they will no longer have my earnings to support their schemes.  In the meantime, congratulations; another year and a half wasted and now, you get my healthcare costs to pay for.

Argue amongst yourselves while they reach into your wallets, your children's wallets, and feel better about having argued while you still allow the federal government to burn the city on the hill.  Oh, an election is coming up?  Boon!  Except this nation will still be deeply in debt in 2011 and 2013.

Not me.  I won't be in debt.  That's for you suckers that still have some crazy notion that giving away %35 to %50 of your life is an adequate recompense for the bounties bestowed upon you by the federal government.  While you whittle away and argue about whether the appropriate percentage is 35 or 37, what amount you are willing to work hard to protect, send money to politicians pledged to protect some particular fraction of a percentage, the real answer is right there, staring at you.

Refuse to pay for your own rape.  Not Democrat, not Republican, but de-fund.  Yes, it is extremely difficult for me to get by, financially, especially now as even part time work dries up.  Yes, life sucks, deeply, for me, now, when compared to two years ago, when I had plenty of money for beer.  However, I am still alive.  Instead of paying taxes, I now get offered (beseeched to apply for!) Earned Income Tax credits, money stolen from you.

If we cut off the faucet, we will short-circuit the ballot box.  The Chief Financial Officer of the company I once worked for once informed me that I was the most profitable employee in the entire firm.  I will admit that much of that had to do with my inadequacy at money-grubbing, as I was always content with decent raises/bonuses, but mostly it was the job, doing the job, that appealed to me.  My earnings supported dozens of staffers, and no longer do so.  My tax dollars supported so many others, but no longer do so.

Now, I ask nothing of you, but you now pretend to pay for me with money you have borrowed.

I owe not one penny of the debt you are accruing, through your federal government.  I paid my share and my grandparent's share.  I will not pay your share, nor your garndchildren's share.  I am only one person, but I am certain that I have been responsible for many other people's jobs, during my life.  I am also certain that I have been responsible for many other freeloaders, with my tax dollars.  However, if there are a thousand people like me, that's 1,000, times 12 people's jobs and 8 free loaders.  20,000 people.

How many people are you enabling, to vote against you, today?

382



Milky Loads and RawMuscleGlutes just signed up.

383 I signed up as Josef Mengele. They're going to have quite the list before they are through have to scrap the whole idea.

Eh.  It's really just a way to grab e-mail addresses and sell t-shirts anyway.

384 I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

It's such an historic day for the Kennedy clan, I signed up too.

385 Having their addresses recorded for posterity would be nice too.

Posted by: no one you know at March 22, 2010 07:58 PM (PD1tk)

Indeed.  It is quite convenient that the scum go ahead and make lists of themselves these days.  It's going to save a LOT of time trying to figure out the who/where of the eventual clean up work.

386 I added my name.
First Name: You Are A
Last Name: Douchebag-Commie.

I hyphenated my last name cause of marriage and stuff.

387 "Attach a one-line rider to every piece of legislation next year that states that the bill is hereby repealed in its entirety.  Force the Democrats to vote on that rider. Every Time.  Then hold a press conference to announce that yet again the Democrats have blocked the will of the American people by upholding this corrupt piece of legislation, despite being given one more opportunity to fix the mess they created. 

Let normal business continue, but keep introducing the rider. Thus, every week they will be given an opportunity to "right the wrong" they inflicted.  The issue would not go away.  Every week the Democrats would get a fresh chance to anger the American people.

How long do you think it would take -- especially if Democrats' poll numbers keep dropping -- before they would repeal the damn bill (and override a Presidential veto) just to stop the political bleeding?

I'd say it would be gone by August 2011."

Mark L. That is an AWESOME idea!

388 _{^{SICK PUPPIES - You´re Going Down}} Define your meaning of war
To me it's what we do when we're bored
I feel the heat comin off of the blacktop
And it makes me want it more
Because I'm hyped up, outta control
If it's a fight I'm ready to go
I wouldn't put my money on the other guy
If you know what I know that I know

It's been a long time coming
And the tables' turned around
Cause one of us is goin'
One of us is goin' down
I'm not runnin', it's a little different now
Cause one of us is goin'
ONE OF US IS GOIN' DOWN!!!

Define your meaning of fun
To me it's when we're gettin' it done
I feel the heat comin' off of the blacktop
So get ready for another one
Let's take a trip down memory lane
The words circling in my brain
You can treat this like another all the same
But don't cry like a bitch when you feel the pain

It's been a long time coming
And the tables' turned around
Cause one of us is goin'
One of us is goin' down
I'm not runnin', it's a little different now
Cause one of us is goin'
ONE OF US IS GOIN' DOWN!!!

This is hardly worth fighting for
But it's the little petty shit that I can't ignore
With my fist in your face, and your face on the floor
It'll be a long time comin'
But you got the message now
Cause I was never goin'
Yeah, you're the one that's going down!

One of us is going down

I'm not runnin', it's a little different now
Cause one of us is goin'
ONE OF US IS GOIN' DOWN!!!

One of us is going down

389 Odds are overwhelmingly against repeal.  And if you do luck out and repeal, you'll fight the battle again next election.  Me, I've had it with teh Socialists v. teh Socialist Lites every couple of years.  Unless something changes, I'm dieing a socialist, and that pisses me off to no end.

Isn't it time to own up to the reality that there is a fundamental divide among the population--socialists v. freemen and women?  Where is it written that we freedom types are forever tied to the Euroweenie socialists? Haven't several generations of Americans risked everything to give us a clean break from the big gov't zombies?  Why shouldn't we go ahead, for our own generation and our kids, and remake that break?

390

I doubt it.  The Dems are corrupt, but they aren't stupid.  They know this will eventually lead to the Dems getting even more power over people's lives.  If they really cared about the electorate (think of chumps like Stupidyak), they wouldn't have done this in the first place.

Which is the fundemental problem with people saying we'll combat this by voting for different people .... and mustn't resort to the extremes of harsh language or such.

Harsh langauge isn't even gonna cut it. Not if you actually want to stop it.

391

The Republicans better start selling their plan now. They need more than just McCain saying "we will re repeal this".

That doesn't inspire much confidence.

392

@13: "I've got a photo of Obama fucking a nutria during a state dinner in Paraguay."

 

*swoon* Oh, that lucky nutria!

393 When we repeal it ... We do it via reconciliation.

394

One word sums up this whole fiasco: Illegitimate. 

The government must have the consent of the people to enact something so sweeping as Obamacare -- and particularly the individual mandate.  As we've seen for a nearly a year, Congress doesn't have our consent.  They've enacted an illegitimate bill.

The courts have a duty to protect our individual liberty -- if we lose these lawsuits against the mandates, the Federal courts will lose their legitimacy.

Our last best hope may be in the states and a constitutional convention.  Or having the states force a constitutional showdown by refusing to acknowledge or encforce Obamacare.

395 I want to believe.  But I don't.

396 P Henry speech made me remember - Guess what today is the anniversary of? http://beta.tiny.cc/juluw

397 They said we couldn't repeal that one, either.

398 It's a sign.

399 They need more than just McCain saying "we will re repeal this." That doesn't inspire much confidence.

How many times do they have to trot out this maverick loser before they retire the fucking geezer?

Look ... if you trot out the guy who lost, that doesn't inspire anything but ridicule.

A philosopher once said: People go with the strong horse.

400 Entitlements have never been repealed because we could always find the money or fudge some stuff. Eventually that won't happen. Also, I would strongly suggest we do not just "repeal" it but fix it. 1) Subsidies for 150%-200 of poverty only. (for families.) They get vouchers...make sure its a slow end to the subsidy - no reason to stay poor. 2) No Medicaid - you get vouchers instead to buy insurance from the exchange. 3) Same thing with Medicare. Means test. 4) If there are no doctors who will see you, you buy gap insurance on your own dime, or use special clinics where doctors work who get student loans repaid with matching payments but low-ish salary. Get rid of the porky stuff. I bet I just saved a bunch of money, killed off a bunch of bureaucracies, etc. while still giving some healthcare to the poor folks.

401 p.s. only fix it after the public is suitably made aware that we have no more funds, dude. Game over. No more welfare state growing to help people who make 40k per year.

402 Those dead choirboys just signed up, it is a miracle.  If I find a good Caribbean proxy I will signup whatshername too

403

@90: "No one is going to repeal this. Even Mitch McConnell said today they want to amend and reform this, he did not use the word repeal at all."

Yup; the GOP elites are just as statist as the Dems.  They're groovy with socialism, just not as fast, and not with their fingerprints on it.

404 Even if it doesn't get repealed, we can't afford it. All the promises in the world don't keep the lights on. No money, no electricity.

I believe the fiscal aspect is what will kill this thing in the end. It's very easy to show people that we already operate at a deficit and we just increased it exponentially.

405 Aghh, I put me name on the fookin thing!

406

I just learned from a comment, over at Dan Belishek's site, something that I can't believe the morons didn't pick up on earlier.

Stupak spelled backwards is Kaputs

407 You Republicans named it " ;">Obamacare." I like that name. Let's call it that for a long, long time.

Let's make sure that, years from now, everybody remembers who's responsible for them being able to keep their insurance after they're diagnosed with cancer, to get coverage for their children despite a pre-existing condition, or to get coverage at all.

408 #420  Stupak spelled backwards is Kaputs

Dang, that's brilliant!

409

@128: ""This is history.  Today marks a major turning point.  Our Founders got it right when they wrote in the Declaration of Independence that our rights come from nature and nature's God, not from government.  Should we now subscribe to an ideology where government creates rights, is solely responsible for delivering these artificial rights, and then rations these rights?  Do we believe that the goal of government is to promote equal opportunity for all Americans to make the most of their lives, or do we now believe that government's role is to equalize the results of people's lives?  The philosophy advanced on this floor by this majority today is so paternalistic and so arrogant, it's condescending, and it tramples upon the principles that have made America so exceptional.  My friends, we are fast approaching a tipping point where more Americans depend upon the federal government than upon themselves for their livelihoods -- a point where we, the American people, trade in our commitment and our concern for our individual liberties in exchange for government benefits and dependencies.""

Oh yeah?

Today is history. Today will be remembered. Years from now the young will ask with wonder about this day. Today is history and you are part of it. Over two hundred years ago when in Europe they were merely the chattel of kings, the "Founding Fathers" - so called - set up a system people they could come to America and find liberty. They came. They braved the Atlantic with their pitiful belongings. They settled. They took hold. They prospered in business, science, education, the arts. With nothing they came and with nothing they flourished. For more than two centuries there has been an America. By this evening, those two centuries will be a rumor. They never happened. Today is history.

410

We are going to need a replacement plan that still meets the goals but doesn't sacrifice our liberty or bankrupt our country.

No you may not have your cake and eat it too any more then they can.

We've heard this before - we can't be the party of no. We have to offer solutions.

But our problems are not their problems. Lack of radical egality does not bother me - lack of liberty does. Lack of justice does. Not social justice - individual justice.

There is no conservative solution to 'global warming' - there is no anthropogenic global warming.

There is no conservative solution to health care costing money. Health care costs money. You want it, pay for it.

THERE IS NO ESCAPE.

There are finite resources and infinite wants. Democrats will inevitably turn to rationing who gets limited care based on how useful you are to their society. To THEM. You're beholden to them.

There is no solution. Conservative or otherwise. What they offer is an absurd fairy tale. You cannot have everyone recieving free health care and no one paying for it. It does not matter if 300 million morons say 'it is too expensive'. Will they accept less care for themselves to make it cheaper? Will they accept no longer supporting their impoverished grandparents?

You cannot dramatically lower costs without dramatically lowering services rendered - unless you steal it. From the rich, from the future, from whomever. Someone must pay.

There is no free lunch. You want it? Make it.

Everything else is theft.

411

@129: "If Amnesty goes through, it can never be repealed."

Enh, there are many forms of "repeal".  Societies will police themselves if they feel threatened, and it usually isn't pretty. 

412 Ace is lying to you.

Because, of course, not even a Republican seizure of Congress would allow for a successful repeal of Health Care reform. There is the small matter of the presidential veto. With the veto pen in hand, any GOP effort to repeal isn't going to require 218 votes in the House and 51 in the Senate, it's going to require 290 and 67.

That would require, even if the GOP were able to hold all 34 Democratic dissidents (unlikely), a seventy-eight seat gain in the House for the GOP.

The wall to climb in the Senate is, shall we say, a little more burdensome. A twenty-six seat gain, which would be particularly problematic, given that there aren't 26 Democrats running for re-election in this cycle.

413 Ivar Biggun and his two Scottish associates, Ben Doon and Phil McAvity just signed.

(stole them names from "Thin Blue Line")

414 Phil,

Let's see if when they get that cancer diagnosis the government allows it to be treated.

In the UK several cutting edge cancer treatments are prohibited because they are too expensive for the national health System.

And "coverage" for your children doesn't mean much if you can't find a doc,  or if the doc you get is from a Third World Country,  can't speak English very well,  and is not up to speed on treatments.

Coverage isn't going to mean a thing if there aren't any doctors to treat you.

So I am quite comfortable with calling it "Obamacare."   If we don't get rid of it in the next 4 years and are stuck with it,  I want everyone to remember who it was that destroyed the greatest medical system on the planet.

415 Phil sure has a grasp of the obvious there.

Anyone that didn't already know that it takes "a gosh darned lot" of extra congresscritters to override a veto?

Anyone?

Bueller?

416 Entropy, you are wrong that there are no solutions. Look, for healthcare a better incentivized system is a solution. I'd prefer small reforms and step by step than "comprehensive" stuff. Draw some lines for subsidies, i.e people making 60k should not get them. Family making 30k? Maybe they should get a partial voucher. No conservative solution to global warming? If it exists, then that would be nuclear power and electric cars. It also takes car of oil dependence.

417

@196: "I want some respect!!!"

And you're *smart*.  Not dumb, like everybody says.  Right, Fredo?

 

Sorry - couldn't pass that one up.

418 And when the Republicans regain the majority, at the beginning of a new session of Congress, the filibuster rule can be changed with 51 votes. I mean, the Democrats all said they hated it.

419 Democrats have 24 Senate seats up for grabs in 2012, Republicans have 9. 11 of those Dem seats were picked up in 2000 or 2006. So yes, teh Republicans can get a filibuster proof majority in 2012. However, the filibuster is just another Senate Rule. When the Republicans take over in 2012, they can pass a new rule. Heck, if we end up with a 50-50 Senate, the Democrats may do it for us in 2010.

420 Does the whole bill have to be repealed at once? Reading through the bill, it's just a bunch of adds, changes and deletions to existing law. Can't the bill be dismantled bit by bit by piecemeal legislation?

421 @282: "Anyone know of any good places to start looking at? Learning a new language is not a problem."

Earthquakes aside, Chile seems ok.  Wanna split an apartment?

422 #434 is basically correct. Overthrow of the Demoncrat majority this fall, then a series of bills defunding/deactivating all the pieces of O-care but with those provisions inextricably tied to funding of some item core to the Dems hold over their constituency. That way, they either go along w/ dismantling O-care, or they lose every other thing they hold dear. Imagine Dems voting against Social Security or some such, just to save the individual mandate.

423

Here's the sign-up page. I'm sure that the Moron Horde can come up with some suitably appropriate names to add in.

 

Vladimir Ulyanov, reporting for dutski.

424 It can be repealed.

Attach a one-line rider to every piece of legislation next year that states that the bill is hereby repealed in its entirety.  Force the Democrats to vote on that rider. Every Time.  Then hold a press conference to announce that yet again the Democrats have blocked the will of the American people by upholding this corrupt piece of legislation, despite being given one more opportunity to fix the mess they created. 

Let normal business continue, but keep introducing the rider. Thus, every week they will be given an opportunity to "right the wrong" they inflicted.  The issue would not go away.  Every week the Democrats would get a fresh chance to anger the American people.

How long do you think it would take -- especially if Democrats' poll numbers keep dropping -- before they would repeal the damn bill (and override a Presidential veto) just to stop the political bleeding?

I'd say it would be gone by August 2011.

Posted by: Mark L at March 22, 2010 07:29 PM (yjqd5)

Can't remember who, but I think it was someone on Brett's all-star panel that said that's what the pubbies did in the early '90s with Clinton and welfare.  They put it on bills over and over until he signed it.

 

425 Sorry if this is a repeat.... I love the logic, Ace: People aren't going to stand for being robbed to pay for someone else's stuff. But isn't that exactly what happens now with welfare, food stamps and government housing? We put up with that. I don't ever anticipate getting any benefits like that (God willing) and yet I pay for it every month. Maybe this is just the straw that breaks the camel's back.

426 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 22, 2010 07:16 PM (I/MqP) Phuken DeChiquen just signed up!

427 Earlier Dems knew that shutting net contributors out (Social Security, Medicare, etc) would promote widespread opposition. Obama and his acolytes are banking (pun intended) on the media obfuscating process until the deal is done There is no way that is gonna stand. Large segments of payers (i.e., middle class taxpayers) are onto the scam.

Moreover, seniors who have been paying into the system for a lifetime are about to get their heretofore sacrosanct Medicare benefits reneged upon, so that the Won can extend medical freebies to illegal aliens (this is the next step). Will a system with regular elections support a sharp and steady rise in taxation to benefit a comparative few while burning people who've paid into the system their whole lives?

I don't see how this catastrophe can be concealed. It's right there, staring you in the face. It seems obvious what the reaction will be after it's clear that the middle class will be footing the bill for this stuff, at the expense of  their parents.

428 Mark L. That is an AWESOME idea! It would, except the Dems would simply start whining to the press: "The Republicans are obstructing xxxxx because of their rabid desire to take away YOUR HEALTH CARE!" Repeat 100x.

429 Gee, Nancy, in the interest of national health, you're gonna have to give up your booze and Botox.

430

Ace is right.

The pain of this bill is going to hit middle-to-upper-class suburban voters very quickly, in the form of dropped employer coverage, huge premium increases, and even more layoffs.  Our teenage kids will not be able to find part-time jobs, as this bill taxes employers for every employee they don't cover, part-time or full-time, so they will hire fewer part-timers.  Those of us enjoying high-deductible plans with Health Savings Accounts - and trust me, unless you have a ginormous chronic illness, this is the ONLY kind of health insurance you SHOULD have - will have them taken away.  Our parents will lose their Medicare Advantage plans and the premiums will go up too.

These are precisely the voters that have already deserted Democrats in three straight elections, two of them in formerly rock-ribbed Democratic states.  They are the people who live in all these swing districts and "purple" states the Democrats won in 2006 and 2008 that gave them their majority in Congress.

The vast majority of the benefits of this bill are going to go to poorer people, who already vote Democratic, and are concentrated in districts that are already Democratic.  It's a hell of a payoff to some of those voters, although they won't see any of it until 2013.

Democrats used to win in suburbia by seeming more "compassionate" and portraying Republicans as mean-spirited, women-hating, retrograde wingnuts.  But now Democrats are screwing us suburbanites directly, in every orifice, to pay off their more loyal voters.  It's just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen a political party do.  There aren't enough of their base voters to keep them in office.  Of course, they are going to now try to make up for that by adding 15 million illegals to the voting rolls, but that is not going to happen.  We are on to them now.

431 If we can win the House in November, we can repeal this. It will be brutal and it will take more intestinal fortitude than Republicans have shown in a long time, but it's simple. The House attaches repeal to every spending bill except defense. The Senate will remove it. In conference the House refuses to accept the repeal and if the Senate refuse to accept, the House starts over. No spending except defense goes to the President without repeal. If Obama wants to veto and shut down the government, so be it. The lapdog media will try to crucify Republicans and the Democrats will scream bloody murder but we can win. The Democrats live to spend money. All their projects, all their earmarks and all their vote buying fails without spending. Republicans have often acted like Democrats and tried to buy votes. If a House majority will act like patriots and stick to it, socialized medicine can be repealed.

432 To make progress on repealing it, you've got to first create some leverage.

One place to start leveraging the issue would be to spread the individual mandate to everyone, including Congresscritters and the President.  

433

Posted by: Cjrun at March 22, 2010 08:01 PM (thWJh)

----

My relative has you beat.  He has lived off the grid since 1972.  Paid in cash, pays for everything in cash, knows how to fish so he never goes hungry and sells what he doesn't need for more money.  Pays cash for his health care and gets a 20% discount.  The IRS doesn't even know he exists.

My son wants to be a musician.  I told him today this will be a great career for him, because he will be able to live off the grid as long as he doesn't get really famous.

434

If Republicans gain control of even one House, they can stop this thing in its tracks in several ways.  Most importantly, they can order an honest estimate from the CBO as to what it is really going to cost, apples to apples, 10 years of expenses vs. 10 years of taxes, no gimmicks, no double counting, no assuming massively higher employment than we know will happen.  Then they beat the living shit out of Obama with this much bigger and not-paid-for number for a few months.  Then they use their investigative committees to find out how many jobs were illegally offered by the White House for votes, investigate the illegal e-mails sent by the White House to federal employees, investigate all of Andy Stern's illegal lobbying visits to the White House, etc.  By the time they get finished the country will be so disgusted with the blatant lies, corruption, and illegality used to pass this thing that the Democrats will demand its repeal to save the few seats they have left in 2012. 

And if that doesn't work, they hold hearings.  Every week.  Call every employer they can find, workers who have been laid off because their employers can't afford the fines or the health coverage for them, the Sallie Mae employees who will be fired while the people who work for the student loan company in Nebraska had their jobs saved, my disabled sister who is going to lose her 17-year job at WellPoint.  Make every last Democrat in the House sit through these hearings and face these people. 

If they get to 51 seats in the Senate they then repeal the reconciliation bill, and if Obama vetoes it they refuse to pass the Executive Branch appropriations bill which funds the White House.  Don't threaten to shut down the whole government.  Threaten to ground Air Force One.  Hit the man where he lives, in his fantasy world where he is King of the Universe.  Make him stay home with Michelle for a few weeks.  That ought to have him crying Uncle!

435 Hey, remember that part in Trainspotting where the athletic metric footballer who hangs out with all the junkies tries smack for the first time, and later he ends up becoming the worst off of them all? Congratulations America! Welcome to the club! You're one of the cool kids now!

436 Why bother with repealing this? It looks like we have enough states involved in Article 10 arguments to really fix the problem: The Interstate Commerce Clause. I say screw congress; they had their chance. Call for a Constitutional Congress to reign D.C. in.

437 This HC Bill in the end will be Pres. Obama's downfall, now he has a bill that he will have to defend and justify to the voters up until 2012. Bush had the same Problem with Iraq when things really started to look bad, Bush was able to at least get re-elected a 2nd term. Obama will not be as lucky.

438 Because the rich deserve what they have and the poor can all f-cking drop dead.

439 JEA, I'll one-up you:

Because the elites like power, the poor like other people's money, and the middle class can just go along like the sheep they are in the rest of the world.

440 There better be a lazy-assed hobbit wandering around Mordor with some kind of ring.

441

This will not be difficult to repeal ...

Both Social Security and Medicare effects every working American in what is perceived as a positive way, i.e. they get the benefits ...

Workers pay into both Social Security and Medicare which makes them eligible and gives them the belief that they DESERVE it benefits ...

In the case of Obamacare none of those things are true ...  of the 30 million "uninsured" about 25% DON'T want to pay for insurance ...

Another 25% are already eligible of Medicaid but haven't signed up for it and won't sign up for it now ...  they won't sign up for the benefits they won't care if it gets taken away ...

The remaining 15 million who do benefit DON'T pay anything for said benefit and when they claim to DESERVE it in the future the other 300 million Americans who pay for their benefit will have another opinion about it ...

 

442 He was elected by racists, marxists, and usefull idiots. Apparently the usefull idiots are breaking away. 

443

An excellent piece, but I would suggest that you left one thing out.

To summarize what you already have, the Middle Class will see:

1) Higher (although usually indirect) cost.

2) No likely benefit, in fact it will likely become a bigger hassle to get various types of medical services.

3) Higher national debt, which they are increasingly very concerned about (nobody but the far-left kooks really buys that it's revenue-neutral).

What I think you left out, if nobody has caught this already, is that the Middle Class will also recognize (if they haven't already) that:

4) It's profoundly un-American to have the Federal government require you to buy something.

5?) Beyond that, they may notice this forestalling any uptick in employment - I have the impression this will represent a huge burden for small businesses who might have otherwise hired someone.

Anyway, I was impressed when Gingrich became the only prominent voice to stand up with a Reagan-esque "this is still America so we can beat this" kind of statement, and I am similarly impressed by Ace's piece. They're right - this issue is DIFFERENT.

444

The Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act extended coverage to all seniors but only taxed the more affluent seniors to pay for it.  Thus it violated the social contract behind Social Security and Medicare that everyone pays in at the same rate.  This bill does the same but this time to all taxpayers, not just those over age 65 and on Social Security.

 

 

445 No way!!, digital frame cant get hitted, it can do better and anyways there not even married in the movie yet