1 They would never fire me, I'm the top draw.

2 Why are you punching down ace?

3 and FIRST!!! republitards.

4

rape victims now have to pay off the rapists?

Its not rape rape, so yeah. 

5

This guy reduced NBC to rubble and he's still getting a $30-$40 million compensation package?

 

Yeah, where's the outrage on the left about CEO's making all this money as they run a company into the ground?  Yeah, I'm hearing crickets too.  Don't you think a DOJ investigation would be in order?  Oh wait, no that would only happen if say, Rupert Murcoch made a ton of money while running Fox into the ground...nah, scratch that thought!

6 MSNBC IS REAL JOURNALISM NOT LIKE THAT FAUX NOISE CRAP ALL YOU NEOCONS LOVE SO MUCH!!!  SLOBBER!!!

7 FINALLY!

Now let's get another huge lib in his place.

Guarantee it's gonna happen. Anything else would be extreme bias.

8

OT: OMFG! CNN has a counter up showing how many gallons of oil is leaking into the Gulf. It updates every fucking second!

Bwahahahahaha!

Oh widdle Barry! Plug the damn hole, Barry!

9 Shareholders are likely to be people who agree with the organizations whose shares they own, no? I mean, that is the ultimate democracy, where you get to vote with your money.

10 We seem to be dealing instead with a corporate class with a vested interest in keeping this ludicrous system in place, over the objections of shareholders.

Little known fact:

No one's twisting anyone's arms, to own shares of stock.

11 widespread chatter inside MSNBC that their days of being a propaganda machine for Obama are over

You can't un-fuck the chicken. 

12 Wait. Wait. Wait. Whoa!

Are you telling me that MSNBC has been less than honest in its reporting of Obama?

13 There is also widespread chatter inside MSNBC that their days of being a propaganda machine for Obama are over....

Could it be real?

Nah...

14 Well Ace it looks like the market is doing what it is supposed to do. MSNBC has the audience appeal of that "3rd guy" you posted earlier.

They are losing money hand over fist and the bosses know it. Nothing speaks louder to corporate culture than losing money hand over fist. While true that a board will put up with some shit for a while to let the CEO try to straighten shit out they will not allow it forever.

The key is to keep government out of it so that if they don't straighten it out the company will fail.  People who have stock in companies like this should see the handwriting on the wall and sell before they fail.

If I had any GE stock I would have got rid of it long ago. Their days of getting a bailout form DC are over and if the Republicans take congress before they get that dumb shit crap and tax bill passed GE is going to take a huge nose dive.   

15 Maybe NewsMax will buy them, like they're trying to do to Newsweak?

16
OT: Golden Girl star Rue McClanahan involved in high-speed chase with L.A. police.

17 I don't get Comcast. I've seen some figures where 10% of households have dropped cable in the past year.

Fire them, and kill your TV as well.  I haven't turned on my TV in almost 2 years.  Don't miss it at all.

18 I have no sympathy for anyone who keeps these turds in business by purchasing their stock (or commercial time, or frankly any part of GE, either). 

But yeah, in general, million dollar bonuses when a company deteriorates over any given year should probably result in jail time for somebody.

19
After MSNBC fires Olberdork, are you going to hire him as the number two press secretary daddy?

20

I don't get this whole aspect of corporate culture, or why conservatives so fetishize laissez-faire that they can't see if stuff like this is going on then something is wrong, and we're not really dealing with working, rational markets. We seem to be dealing instead with a corporate class with a vested interest in keeping this ludicrous system in place, over the objections of shareholders.

Ace hits the nail on the head. This is pure crony capitalism and it's as harmful as socialism and communism.

In fact, it's shit like this that allows socialism and communism to cling to life.

21 Saruman/Olbermann, "seeing" stones, towers, it all seems so familiar..

22

I don't get this whole aspect of corporate culture, or why conservatives so fetishize laissez-faire that they can't see if stuff like this is going on then something is wrong, and we're not really dealing with working, rational markets.

I'm not usually a fan of more government regulation, but I think one federal rule might help eliminate these endless cases of corporate execs making off like bandits while the corporations and shareholders suffer:  Eliminate the presumption that the officers of a corporation are acting in a corporation's benefit.  IIRC, this rule made it to virtually all the states because they had to be able to compete with Deleware's rules of incorporation.  The Deleware rules slant liberally in favor of corporate officers.  Deleware did this to get up their tax base, and it worked.  Every big company became incorporated in Deleware.  Now they don't have to, because pretty much all the other states have adopted the same rule.

Anyway.

It's ludicrous to presume that the actions of corporate executives are in the best interests of shareholders.  A federal rule striking down that one presumption might make things work a little more sensibly. 

23 OT: Anyone tried that foam insulation shit to plug the leak? I better get  on the horn to James Cameron or whoever is in charge.

24 If I had any GE stock I would have got rid of it long ago. Their days of getting a bailout form DC are over

ObamaCare was a major boon to GE.  They're one of the biggest players in electronic medical records systems.  Obama/Pelosi essentially guaranteed GE a huge market among doctors for decades to come.

25 But I'm still scary-smart.

26

@PA

I'm the same way.  I keep cable for sports but I'm thinking about canceling altogether.  I don't watch sports much these days except for the NFL and that can be found mostly on network anyway.  Watch alot of movies though.

 

27 Two Dogs no understand this cable thing.

28 And firing Olbermann is a good idea in its own right, but how does that unpropagandize the other 23 hours a day they broadcast?

29

General Electric Co. (NYSE: GE) denied a report published on Wednesday that NBC Universal CEO Jeff Suzker has reached a deal to step down from the company after ComcastÂ’s acquisition of a controlling stake in the media giant has been completed.

The New York Post reported on Wednesday that Zucker would receive an exit package of about $30 million to $40 million, citing anonymous sources allegedly close to the situation.

“There is no exit deal,” a spokeswoman from General Electric told MarketWatch.

G.E.Â’s stock closed up 0.06% on Wednesday, hitting $16.36 at the end of the day.

30 In what seems a million years ago, MSNBC was actually a reasonable decent news network that I would often watch, especially on breaking news. That said, until they fumigate the present NBC news division, it's unlikely to improve.

31

@20

How bout O'douche for press secretary? 

32 This guy reduced NBC to rubble and he's still getting a $30-$40 million compensation package? What, rape victims now have to pay off the rapists?


No, it's more like Paul McDouchebag negotiating a divorce settlement with Heather McInsane to get the one-legged scrunt out of his life.

33

<i>... why conservatives so fetishize laissez-faire that they can't see if stuff like this is going on then something is wrong///</i>

That's not worthy of you. There's something wrong, to be certain. But the government isn't the one to try and fix it.

34

@20

Uh you said that.  My bad Malia.

35 Ace hits the nail on the head. This is pure crony capitalism and it's as harmful as socialism and communism. Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 03, 2010 07:48 PM (P33XN) I didn't realise that stupid bonuses killed a couple hundred million people over the last century. Time to recalibrate my OutRage-O-Meter® . . . you think the "Roosevelt" setting is about right?

36
Obama/Pelosi essentially guaranteed GE a huge market among doctors for decades to come.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 03, 2010 07:50 PM (8sDVg)

And if conservatism prevails in November, we may have the opportunity to stop the Obama/Pelosi anal kiss to GE and give them a case of hemorrhoids. 

37 >>>Well Ace it looks like the market is doing what it is supposed to do Paying a guy 30-40 Million for losing a 100 million? That's what a market is supposed to do?

38 Watch alot of movies though.

Check out Tivo + Netflix.

Or hell--just Netflix.

39 Now let's get another huge lib in his place.

I'm expecting a call any day now!

40

Anything short of 'the great dying' of careers will not save MSNBC.

 

41 Drudge is running the headling:  "Obama may use executive priv to withhold Kagan docs."

Ooooo . . . I double dog dare you.

42

Uh you said that.  My bad Malia.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 03, 2010 07:55 PM (0pYSi)

Join me on Facebook and we can talk about daddy's wonderful programs.

43 Paying a guy 30-40 Million for losing a 100 million?

That's what a market is supposed to do?


If the Board of Directors feel that they'll lose another 100 or 200 million over the course of his present contract, paying him 30 million to leave early is a bargain.

44 Wouldn't it be grand, though, if they decided to give Fox News a run for their money? Heh.

45

@MikeO

Yeah I do.  I don't watch many cable movies.  I also like to buy the used movies at blockbuster. Hulu is good for old Rockford Files and Magnum PI's as well.

46 Paying a guy 30-40 Million for losing a 100 million?

That's what a market is supposed to do?

Ace, you're right and wrong.

The problem is that the SEC, the legislators that author and pass the legislation that undergirds their palette of regulations, and the regulated are a bigass game of cronyism.

Adding another regulation is exactly what this mass of fucking looters want.  There is no way to unfuck this mess if you move in a direction that increases regulation.

47 I can't believe that shareholders really would vote in favor of crap like this if they had a genuine say.

The problem isn't that GE and Comcast intend to honor their contract with Zucker. It's that they decided a few months ago to extend that contract.

"Just a few months ago, Comcast and GE extended Zucker's contract until 2013 saying he would continue as CEO of the newly merged entity, though sources say it's clear Comcast Corp. COO Steve Burke intends to play the lead role."

The shareholders might have questioned why GE wanted to extend the contract of such a poorly-performing executive.  But once the contract extension was in place, they were on the hook for the money to buy out that contract (the $30 to $40 million cited in the article).

For you, Ace, the question is more than hypothetical.  If a corporation ever offers to buy AoSHQ, you'll probably be keenly interested in whether they fulfill the terms of their sales contract with you.

48 Socialism and communism don't need this to cling to life. They will be around as long as one guy has one more button on his shirt than another... I may think a Bentley is huge waste of money at $250k each, but that doesn't mean I want to make it illegal for someone to drive one. People and corporations have the right to do stupid things with their money.

49 MSNBC uses lots of words.. and I like word.

50

I didn't realise that stupid bonuses killed a couple hundred million people over the last century. Time to recalibrate my OutRage-O-Meter® . . . you think the "Roosevelt" setting is about right?

Nice dodge, champ.

51 42 Drudge is running the headling:  "Obama may use executive priv to withhold Kagan docs."

He may.  Seems like Kagan wasn't as stealthy as we all thought she was.

52 I foresee weeping and gnashing of teeth for .001% of the population.

53 Shareholders are likely to be people who agree with the organizations whose shares they own, no? I mean, that is the ultimate democracy, where you get to vote with your money.

But you forget the 401(k). Most small investors have no clue where there money goes after it hits a mutual fund, and few (if any) funds bother to influence a board. So long as the company is boosting its stock price, a fund doesn't care how. As a result, most boards are detached from their investors.

Worse, the rules are such that most folks can't prove that they have ownership of any stock -- your fund or brokerage might hold the actual stock, so you don't have legal standing to influence the board.

The rules for this stuff is actually pretty restrictive. If you're not a big player (and therefore, already in the club) you have a rough time doing anything but trading the stock -- and, as I mentioned before, you might not even be able to do that.

54 Nice dodge, champ. Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 03, 2010 08:00 PM (P33XN) Yeah, uh, your Chevy is really nice too. Sooooooooo . . . what makes a few bonuses equivalent to mass murder again?

55 @46 Delta Smelt

"Rockford Files" is the best show that ever aired.

Ever catch "Maverick" reruns?

Funny that you mention "Magnum PI."   For some reason, about all the television I like to watch (outside of USA's shows) was done by Cannell or Bellisario. 

56 rape victims now have to pay off the rapists?

And don't forget they have to take their whipping too. Dirty sluts.

57 If Olbermann got canned he could hang out with the Citibank "Why are you staring at my tits?!?!? I'm a victim!!!!11!! Chick.

58 @54 good point. (401)k. I put that on the list of "Things I Don't Have." I have IRAs and they likely have the same problem.

59 "If Olbermann got canned he could hang out with the Citibank "Why are you staring at my tits?!?!? I'm a victim!!!!11!! Chick."

She'd scare his cowardly ass into the bathtub for a decade.  At least.

60 OK, who looks at board member compensation packages when they trade stocks or mutual funds?

Company performance is what matters. It doesn't mean the board members deserve their pay, but it's a back-scratching culture where they all vote each other fancy packages. I just don't see how big business, the ones where we read about ridiculous golden parachutes, changes its ways; and I don't want government intervening. More government will always create a worse situation.

But I'm still glad to see Zucker bounced. I just wish he remained long enough to bankrupt NBC utterly while taking a bigger bite out of GE.

61 He may.  Seems like Kagan wasn't as stealthy as we all thought she was.

Nice.  Anything that hurts Retarded Barry is good for America.

62 Superman Angry Bawka Obummie da Pwezz gonna swim down to the leaky oil-hole spilly thing and use his detachable pee-pee to pwug da hole 'cuz it made him very, very angwee. And his daughter wanted him to pwug some other hole dan de won in her Mommie. (Superman Angry Bawaka Obumme da Pwezz say dat suit him just fine, dat other hole be 2 bigg even for his detachable pee-pee to fit in. Maybee he gitz some frikkshun from da leaky oil-hole spilly thing and make him go "woo-woo-spootz-ugh-napkin-wipee-upp?" for once).

63
all the television I like to watch (outside of USA's shows) was done by Cannell or Bellisario. 

Quinn-Martin was more bettah.

_{This has been a Quinn-Martin production.}

64 I'm finding it really difficult not to picture Jeff Zucker with Joan Crawford eyebrows yelling, "Don't fuck with me, fellas! This ain't my first time at the rodeo."

65 And as I think about this, I don't really much care about whether that narrow-assed Olberdick or the Elena Kagan lookalike are on NBC.  What I want is for NBC to get him the FUCK OFF OF MY NFL BROADCASTS!

66
corporations have the right to do stupid things with their money.

GE is doing it with our money.  Or rather, Chinese money that WE have to pay back.

Talk about taxation without representation, try to talk at a GE or GM shareholders meeting.

67

@mikeO

I've seen a few.  I'll have to check Hulu for them.  Never tried.  Agreed on Cannell and Bellisario.  Is Burn Notice on USA?  My dad ( a conservative)  keeps telling me to check it out.

68 Posted by: average-BO-supporter at June 03, 2010 08:07 PM (cre93)

Thread Winner.  Even though it didn't really have anything to do with the thread.

69 Wouldn't it be grand, though, if they decided to give Fox News a run for their money? Heh.

Posted by: mpur in Texas (kicking Mexico's ass since 1836) at June 03, 2010 07:59 PM (kGpGr)

We could use a conservative news station instead of moderate FOXN to balance out the alphabets.

70 Agreed, Dang, that is a different animal altogether. If it's my money in a stock, I can sell.

71 GE is doing it with our money. Or rather, Chinese money that WE have to pay back. Talk about taxation without representation, try to talk at a GE or GM shareholders meeting. Posted by: Dang Straights at June 03, 2010 08:09 PM (a/daQ) True, but even in that case, I'm pretty sure we the taxpayers get a better deal out of paying the fucker to just go. And as far as being on the hook for it, well, you know, as a nation we elected the sorts of people who do that sort of thing, so I guess we have to learn our lesson here.

72

A possibility, however remote, of a conga line of Reds boogying out of MSNBC holding cardboard boxes?

Be still my savage heart, before I die of ecstasy.

73 66 After what the NFL did to Rush,fuck them!They acted like he was a convicted criminal or worse(well he is worse,he's a filthy conservative right?).

74 A possibility, however remote, of a conga line of Reds boogying out of MSNBC holding cardboard shine boxes?

Editorial license.

75
They acted like he was a convicted criminal

No, they actually got to buy into the Miami Dolphins.

76 Capitalism, like all free systems, is prone to abuse. The problem is the alternative is much, much worse. Do I like the corporate golden parachutes? No. Do I think the government needs to step in and start regulating compensation packages, hell no. And I'm sorry, but this is not crony capitalism. Crony capitalism as I've always understood it was private businesses getting sweetheart deals from the government. As far as I can tell, the deal was between Zucker and the board who are responsible to the shareholders. As long as the shareholders were not defrauded, they have no one to blame but themselves for the compensation packages they are allowing to be made on their behalf.

77 Gee, if the guy's losing 100 million dollars, then 30-40 million to make him go away seems like a bargain.  Put simply, the 30-40 million isn't for what he did, it's for what they want to keep him from doing.

78

@74

Yup.  They sure seem to like Queef O'Douche though.

79 I think they should fire Keith Olbermann and replace him with Justin Bieber.

80

_{OT:  runningrn, it's 7:15 and muddy outside, i don't wanna do any  miles today, please motivate me}

81 "This guy reduced NBC to rubble and he's still getting a $30-$40 million compensation package?"

Obama will be all over his shit about 'excessive compensation', just you .... uh...oh....NBC.....Obama water carrier.......Never Mind!

As for MSNBC - you mean new owners want viewers?  As in viewers=money?

82

Corporations aren't democracies and I don't see how regulation would work regarding pay to a douche like Zucker. Pay is approved by the board and the board is approved by shareholders. 3 or 4 hedge funds control most of the voting shares in any company along with a few retirement plans.

The problem with major corps is cronie capitalism. They agree to pay more taxes which the government needs and the government agrees to let them make more money.

The CEO of comcast is a big lib and was one of the largest bundlers for Obama. The only way the NBC deal goes through is with Obama's approval. There is not going to be any big change in habits at MSNBC, if fact it could get to be more liberal than it is now.

83 Is Burn Notice on USA?  My dad ( a conservative)  keeps telling me to check it out.

Yep.  And two thumbs-up.  I think it's safe to say that if you liked Rockford, you'll like Michael Weston.

The USA off-season series line-up is pretty good.  I try not to watch any of their new offerings because I haven't the time to watch so much TV.

84 Quinn-Martin was more bettah.

_{This has been a Quinn-Martin production.}

Posted by: a concerned boo berry at June 03, 2010 08:07 PM (9X3KM)

EPILOGUE: "Dr. Richard Kimble has found an ally in David Vincent, and together they will continue their search for the One-Armed Alien."

At least, that's how I remember it.

85 The reason terrible CEOs get golden parachutes is simple: it's worth 30 million dollars to get a shitty CEO out of the office. If someone is making descisions which are costing the company millions of dollars a day, then getting him out, right now, so that someone new can begin to fix the damage, is worth 30 million. Otherwise they'll drag their feet, file suit, etc. The primary concern is getting the failure out of the driver's seat as quickly as possible, and that's worth the money. Just think of the things disgruntled employees do in the time between being given notice of their firing and actually leaving. Now imagine a CEO being told he's being fired, but still having total control of the day to day operations of the company.

There is a good reason for everything the private sector does, even if it's not readily apparent to you. Read more Thomas Sowell, especially Basic Economics, Applied Economics, and Economic Facts and Fallacies.

86 Wouldn't it be grand, though, if they decided to give Fox News a run for their money? Heh.

Posted by: mpur in Texas (kicking Mexico's ass since 1836) at June 03, 2010 07:59 PM (kGpGr)

We could use a conservative news station instead of moderate FOXN to balance out the alphabets.

Posted by: 18-1 at June 03, 2010 08:10 PM (bgcml)

Well, Newsmax has put in a legit bid to buy Newsweek, so it's possible to imagine new owners having a new political agenda for MSNBC as well.

87
I think it's safe to say that if you liked Rockford, you'll like Michael Weston.

Dude, Rockford could pull hotties (hawwwwties) living in a freaking TRAILER.  In MALIBU, no less.  I don't know if Weston can approach that level of awesome.

Oh, and Rockford Files?  NBC, back when.

88

The reason terrible CEOs get golden parachutes is simple: it's worth 30 million dollars to get a shitty CEO out of the office.

Well there is that, plus the fact that they negotiate it in their employment contract.

89 The obvious antidote to the criminal laissez-faire fetish is to have a smart group of people appointed by the government ensure that fairness!™ is enforced.  Wouldn't it be great if every person would contribute to society to the best of his or her ability and only consume from society in proportion to his or her needs?  As long as you had some kind of central committee to make sure it was fair!™ it would truly be the ideal system.

90

EPILOGUE: "Dr. Richard Kimble has found an ally in David Vincent, and together they will continue their search for the One-Armed Alien."

At least, that's how I remember it.

"The Invaders."

I forgot about that show.  AFRTS used to run it when I lived in Korea thirty years ago.

"The Fugitive" did kick ass, though.

91

We seem to be dealing instead with a corporate class with a vested interest in keeping this ludicrous system in place, over the objections of shareholders.

Milton Friedman warned us about this.

92

_{runningrn, it's 7:15 and muddy outside, i don't wanna do any  miles today, please motivate me}

_{I'm not runningrn, but I will tell you, if you don't exercise, you'll someday look as bloated as me.}

_{Motivation enough?}

93

if you don't exercise, you'll someday look as bloated as me.

I'll be back, going running.

94 Correction: I just read that Zucker turned NBC from the most profitable net to one that lost ONE BILLION dollars during the boom years around 2005. He lost one billion in an upturn. So, of course, it's only natural that he should be paid 40 million if he's being fired. OF COURSE. Why shouldn't he?

95

I just read that Zucker turned NBC from the most profitable net to one that lost ONE BILLION dollars during the boom years around 2005. He lost one billion in an upturn.

But he was acting in the best interest of the shareholders.

96 (So you can't go after him.)

97 >>>The reason terrible CEOs get golden parachutes is simple: it's worth 30 million dollars to get a shitty CEO out of the office. Please. Why do they have contracts giving them such power, so that you have to pay to fire them? Um, how about the idea that it's not in a corporation's idea to offer such a contract in the first place? And the only reason such contracts are offered is that the board of directors of every corp is made up of CEOs of other corps, and they all have a vested interest in gettin' PAID, son, no matter how bad they fuck up.

98 So, of course, it's only natural that he should be paid 40 million if he's being fired. OF COURSE. Why shouldn't he?

Posted by: ace at June 03, 2010 08:28 PM (66DVY)

Don't forget the $250,000 million he lost through superior negotiating skills on the Olympics.

99 "The Invaders."

I forgot about that show.  AFRTS used to run it when I lived in Korea thirty years ago.

"The Fugitive" did kick ass, though.

Posted by: MikeO at June 03, 2010 08:26 PM (lBmZl)

Hey, I liked The Invaders!  They did rip off the idea of the "evaporating alien corpse" from an episode of The Outer Limits, though -- but at least it was one of the really good episodes.

100 hell, rockford was good just for the musical scoring...

101 >>>The obvious antidote to the criminal laissez-faire fetish is to have a smart group of people appointed by the government ensure that fairness!™ is enforced. Nope. Straw man.

102 Um, how about the idea that it's not in a corporation's idea to offer such a contract in the first place?

And the only reason such contracts are offered is that the board of directors of every corp is made up of CEOs of other corps, and they all have a vested interest in gettin' PAID, son, no matter how bad they fuck up.

Posted by: ace at June 03, 2010 08:30 PM (66DVY)

Nothing you are saying is wrong. The pro status quo will argue it's free market capitalism and that is where the market is. I just don't know how you change it is all.

103 That's not a straw man ace. Why exactly is it any of the government's business what executives are paid? More importantly, where exactly does the Constitution empower the FedGov to set a salary cap for corporate officers.

104 So, of course, it's only natural that he should be paid 40 million if he's being fired. OF COURSE. Why shouldn't he?

Ace,

(assuming that you're being sarcastic)

"Should" has nothing to do with it.

The problem is that shareholders cannot be bothered to vote their shares.  I voted the one symbolic share that my wife and I have in Royal Caribbean (we cruised with Celebrity on our honeymoon) because they were trying to name one of Penny Pritzker's relatives to the board.

BFD.  How many shareholders voted?  I'd bet that piece of human garbage is now on their board.  That's just how it is.  I didn't make it that way.

BUT I SURE AS FUCK DO NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE ANY MORE  SAY IN ANYTHING.

You can trust the government only until you can't.  I can unload that one symbolic share any time I want.

105

The obvious antidote to the criminal laissez-faire fetish is to have a smart group of people appointed by the government ensure that fairness!™ is enforced.

How about just eliminating the law that says they (execs)can't be sued?

Obviously, these people act in their own interest first and foremost.  The current rules foster that.  Execs get the reigns of the corporation and use it like their personal urinal.

106 I vote my proxy.  I always lose.

107 I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where someone was defending paying him that money.  In fact the closest thing I've seen to defense was the fact that it was in fulfillment of a lawful contract.
As to why the contract is written that way, it's for the same basic reason that employer-provided health insurance is so common.  One company did it to bring in the talent and soon everyone had to do it.  Once golden parachutes were common, the compensation had to get more and more extravagant to bring in the top talent.  Whether or not the talent is that great is immaterial, only that the compensation was similar to the compensation for similar positions.

108 11 "widespread chatter inside MSNBC that their days of being a propaganda machine for Obama are over"

You can't un-fuck the chicken. 

Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 03, 2010 07:44 PM (8sDVg)

Suppose MSNBC were to go bipolar, specifically, start running all the stories that the Big 0 wants buried; the headlines here at Ace, many at HotAir, MM, ..... and put some money and resources into investigating them(glove tests for all).

Suddenly:

 - We see if "open" and "transparent" really mean something (or we see fortifications and security at the White House that make Nixon look positively Democratic)

 - Pelosi, Reid, Shumer, and the rest decide it's everyman for himself

 - Gibbs starts passing stones before and after each session with the press

 - Golf clubs start disappearing at the White House

 ... and all because MSNBC decided to investigate, print and air the truth.

I love it when a plan comes together.

109
Ace,

And another thing:  In my opinion, beyond taxation considerations, the very concept of corporations has run its course. 

110 Funny that you mention "Magnum PI."   For some reason, about all the television I like to watch (outside of USA's shows) was done by Cannell or Bellisario.

FUCK. YES.

111

Why exactly is it any of the government's business what executives are paid?

It's statutory law that allows these people to do basically whatever they want.  There is a presumtion they are acting in the shareholder's interest.  Created by statute.  So government is already tied up in this.

112 Please. Why do they have contracts giving them such power, so that you have to pay to fire them?

Um, how about the idea that it's not in a corporation's idea to offer such a contract in the first place?

And the only reason such contracts are offered is that the board of directors of every corp is made up of CEOs of other corps, and they all have a vested interest in gettin' PAID, son, no matter how bad they fuck up.

Posted by: ace at June 03, 2010 08:30 PM (66DVY)

GE historically has done very well in assessing whether an executive is worth what they pay him or her.  It may be that in the post-Jack Welch era, they've lost the knack.

What's baffling is that GE and Comcast would jointly decide to extend Zucker's contract if they were on the cusp of firing him.  The best guess I have around that is that they didn't want the news of Zucker's firing to screw up the negotiations and approvals of Comcast's acquisition of NBC... in which case it really IS an example of Comcast deciding that it was worth an extra $30 million (paid to Zucker) to get their hands on NBC.

As for the contract's power, it's pretty much standard that if you give someone a contract to pay him a certain amount annually through a certain date, you owe him the remainder of his contract if you cancel it early -- unless you're able to show that the person breached the contract.  Pay-to-play is pretty standard in the entertainment industry, and it's used to lock in a valuable resource and to keep it out of the hands of competitors.  However, it always runs the risk of locking in a resource that only looks valuable and is in fact worse than worthless, like a Zucker or an Olbermann or a Lindsay Lohan.

113 rdbrewer,
You would then replace golden parachutes with thousands of frivolous lawsuit every time a company's stock went down.  Furthermore, I do not see where every executive is running their company into the ground just to get their golder parachute.  A compensation package pays executives far more to do a good job than to do a job that tanks the stock price.

114 The aMessCrew will have to get their gigs with nowhere tv outlets like "Current but Questionable" Gorey-vision or Mark Cuban's HDNet: "Pseudojournalists Gone Wild" programming.

115

It's statutory law that allows these people to do basically whatever they want.  There is a presumtion they are acting in the shareholder's interest.  Created by statute.  So government is already tied up in this.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 03, 2010 08:40 PM (gEkTt)

They don't get to do whatever they want. They get to run the company, which is made up of people who choose to work there, financed by people who choose to purchase stock and choose to purchase the corporation's goods or services. It's none of my business how NBC handles itself, because I have no skin in the game. It's immoral for me to dictate to the board or the shareholders how they run the company.

Fucking hell, why exactly are conservatives having a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that corporations are free to pay their employees whatever they want? Applying bullshit lefty notions of "fairness" and "economic justice" is a huge mistake.

116

Fucking hell, why exactly are conservatives having a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea that corporations are free to pay their employees whatever they want? Applying bullshit lefty notions of "fairness" and "economic justice" is a huge mistake.

Posted by: Britt at June 03, 2010 08:51 PM (tk339)

I don't think that is the problem. I think the CEO of Goldman Sachs is vastly underpaid. What I have a problem with is when corporations hire a loser that they didn't protect the shareholders money by putting a loser clause in his contract. IMO some seem to really not care because it isn't their money they a paying someone anyways.

Most of us work for companies that when we do a bad job we get booted, no huge retirement package, no nothing. If Zucker had nothing to look forward to except $400 a week in unemployment he might have done a better job. 

117

Gryphon, it's not fun when you inject bullshit into the discussion.  My point about Delaware means there was a time when coporate execs did not enjoy the presumption, "the business judgment rule."  All this rule does is water down their fiduciary duty corporate officers owe to their corporations.  This was just to get more tax money in Delaware.  In a race to the bottom, other states have adopted the same rule. 

Now, say, artificially pumping up a corporation's value to meet contract goals in order to make bonuses is presumed to be in the best interest of the corporation.  You say you don't see where [execs are acting in their own best interest as opposed to the corporation's].  I suggest you open your eyes. 

118 Britt, you don't grok.

119 I know some CEO types. They hire me from time to time. Most have homes in Bermuda where they live 50% of the year plus one day. I try real hard to stay out of the "eat the rich" crowd, but I admit it is tough at times.

120

A quick google on "business judgment rule."

To encourage corporations to organize and continue to do business in Delaware, the legislature and judges of that state have diluted the fiduciary duties that corporate officers and directors in most other states owe to their corporation, its shareholders, employees and retirees.

By adopting the "business judgment rule" Delaware created the presumption that officers and directors of Delaware corporations (unlike the officers and directors of corporations organized in most other states) have made all their business decisions "on an informed basis (i.e., with due care), in good faith and in the honest belief that the action taken was in the best interests of the(ir) corporation". Citron v. Fairchild Camera & Instrument, Del. Supr.569 A.2d 53, 64 (1989)

In order to overcome that presumption, a plaintiff must prove that the officer or director has engaged in fraud, acted in bad faith or made the business decision for his or her profit or betterment. This is very hard for plaintiffs to do, because the courts will usually allow motions for summary judgment in favor of corporate defendants before plaintiffs can obtain needed corporate documents through discovery to prove their cases.

121

122 Comcast does not fuck around.  NBC, as the Democrat suck up, is over.  The Comcast guys know what a hell hole it is and the Jooos are being bought out.

They see Fox and they see the Future!

Obly, take that Ag degree and start farming bitch.

123 I try real hard to stay out of the "eat the rich" crowd, but I admit it is tough at times.

Posted by: rawmuse at June 03, 2010 09:02 PM (8qfTx)

I'm not for eat the rich, like I said, Blankfine and his employees made Goldman $12 Billion. He got paid $9 million, which is a joke IMO when you consider the fact that Zucker lost over $1 Billion and gets $30 Million for getting fired.

I would be for a law that said if a CEO consistantly loses money over a certain period you can fire his ass for non performance and send him packing without further cost to shareholders. You can pay him whatever you want but if he doesn't make you money you can boot him.

If it were a law there were be no well he will just go somplace else crap unless he wants to leave the country. I just get tired of reading about another failed CEO being fired and taking millions home with him for his failure.

124
robtr,

I'd be for that, too.  I'd be for that if I could trust the motherfuckers that hold office and sit on the benches in this country.

I don't.

The problem I have is that the SEC and the regulations that emerge from the laws that the cocksucking bitches in Congress put onto the books give passive investors an unwarranted sense of security.

Remove that sense of security because it is nothing but a lie.  We now have the communications means needed to get the needed information in front of the eyes of the people who need it.

125 We seem to be dealing instead with a corporate class with a vested interest in keeping this ludicrous system in place, over the objections of shareholders. Hmmm. That sounds familiar . . . We seem to be dealing instead with a ruling class with a vested interest in keeping this ludicrous system in place, over the objections of the citizens. As goes MSNBC, so goes the nation?

126

The problem I have is that the SEC and the regulations that emerge from the laws that the cocksucking bitches in Congress put onto the books give passive investors an unwarranted sense of security.

I'm a passive investor, the biggest position I hold in a company is 1,000 shares. I can vote those shares or take the proxy card and wipe my ass with it. Neither is going to make any difference because a small number of Hedge Funds own the majority of voting stock and they are all members of the same club that the CEO is.

I like to say I am an investor but I am really a bettor. If a stock I own hits a 20% profit someone else owns it that day, sometimes sooner if the company is a bit shakey or it gained alot right after I bought it. I am not sure there are any real investors anymore.

127 Please, oh God, please.... do not let Olberman lose his MSNBC gig. I'm scared to death he'll return to some sports news outlet. PLEASE leave him safely buried in the obscurity of MSNBC.

128 I'm a passive investor, the biggest position I hold in a company is 1,000 shares. I can vote those shares or take the proxy card and wipe my ass with it. Neither is going to make any difference because a small number of Hedge Funds own the majority of voting stock and they are all members of the same club that the CEO is.

I think we're singing off the same sheet, but my utter lack of musical sense is throwing you.

My take on this is that I think that giving government more power to counter the hedge funds is a bad idea because the powers behind the hedge funds will get with the powers in the government to make the deals sweeter for whatever constituencies the hedge funds and the government legislators favor.

My idea is to remove the government imprimatur from the game and let caveat emptor make passive investment the thing of the past that it should be.

129

Corporate bonuses and golden parachutes.  THIS IS THE HILL WE WILL DIE ON, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!! 

 

130 My idea is to remove the government imprimatur from the game and let caveat emptor make passive investment the thing of the past that it should be.

Posted by: MikeO at June 03, 2010 09:34 PM (lBmZl)

I am trying to think how that would work and can't. Right now with the government there is alot of money on the sidelines including some of my own because people just don't trust what is going on on WS.

If what you want to do is take the small investor completely out of investing than what you are proposing with certainly do that.

I don't want to do that though. I just don't want companies I own stock in like GE giving a douche a $30 Million goodbye kiss for taking my stock from $30 to $16.

I agree there are alot of gov. regs that do nothing and may give some people false security and that most the regs make things worse than better but I don't trust the Harvard fuckers running companies either.

131

I don't get this whole aspect of corporate culture, or why conservatives so fetishize laissez-faire that they can't see if stuff like this is going on then something is wrong, and we're not really dealing with working, rational markets.

This isn't laissez-faire capitalism it's mercantalism.

If the company wants to piss it's hard earned profits away on severance packages, hey whatever. But that presumes the company is actually productive and not a rent-seeking corporate equivalent of a feudal landlord.

132 "fetishize laissez-faire"

Did.not.see that one coming. Let me check...
Yeah, ace.mu.nu.

For a moment, I thought I was in Kos land or something.

133

I don't want to do that though. I just don't want companies I own stock in like GE giving a douche a $30 Million goodbye kiss for taking my stock from $30 to $16.

I agree there are alot of gov. regs that do nothing and may give some people false security and that most the regs make things worse than better but I don't trust the Harvard fuckers running companies either.

Government regulations are the reasons why they can do shit like that.

NBC is owned by GE.

You appoint the Harvard fucker and pay him $30M just to fuck shit up because that's how you get all his Harvard fucker buttbuddies in DC to pass a law mandating everyone replace their $.80 incadescent light bulbs with your $14 fancy twisty mercury-filled bulbs and generate $1B+ in business.

The $30M is piss in a bucket. It's his cut, la mordida.

And hey, when NBC goes bankrupt they'll half-nationalize it and bail it out. Hell, ALL of TV, which is a major mode of news and information, is mostly owned by like 4 companies. You can't have them failing... they're too big. And if there was static on the boob tube the boobs would probably start a riot.

134 "Government regulations are the reasons why they can do shit like that."

That's more like it.

Man, for a second or two I was worried.

135

And the only reason such contracts are offered is that the board of directors of every corp is made up of CEOs of other corps, and they all have a vested interest in gettin' PAID, son, no matter how bad they fuck up.

Yes this is true...

Hmm..

What does that remind me of....???

They're one in the same. They won't free you from each other. You may as well be asking Zucker and all those other CEO's to do something about Zucker and all those other CEO's.

Hey I got an idea. Rape is a real serious problem. I don't like people getting raped.

So let's take all the murderers, and let them all out of jail with a free pass to kill all the rapists.

What could go wrong?

136

ObamaCare was a major boon to GE.  They're one of the biggest players in electronic medical records systems.  Obama/Pelosi essentially guaranteed GE a huge market among doctors for decades to come.

Obamacare will cost us over a trillion dollars.

GE owns NBC.

NBC, in the process of losing a pissant billion dollars or so, goes full in the tank for Obama.

Hmmmm.

Who says Zucker didn't make his owners any money?

137 There is also widespread chatter inside MSNBC that their days of being a propaganda machine for Obama are over.... This would explain a lot. No wonder Matthews has been practically human over the last week. Have you seen his interview with Andrea Mitchell and Barney Frank? Mitchell was an absolute tool, trying to lessen Israeli evidence about the raid, while pumping up the non-existent claims of the terrorists. Matthews basically responded with a "yeah, sure, thanks, b'by". He completely undermined her whole presentation by emphasizing the overwhelming visual evidence supporting Israeli claims. And then he practically fellated Barney as Franks totally backed Israel. It was an amazing exchange, especially with Matthews so thoroughly supporting Israel, and by implication, torpedoing White House "ambivalence." It was something to behold. Check out the MSNBC site for video.

138 Okay. So now I know that blockquote doesn't work....

139 Zucker's leaving explains why Brian Williams has been Mr. Bravery lately criticizing the Obama Economic Miracle and such.

140 Wait a minute...when was Barney Frank backing Israel? On Wednesday, he was stating that the raid made him "ashamed" to be a Jew.

141 Anyway, since the rumor started that Comcast and Flyers owner Ed Snider are going to start a new "right wing" news network, a few weeks ago, the Philly moonbats have been rooting for the Blackhawks.

142 This guy reduced NBC to rubble and he's still getting a $30-$40 million compensation package? What, rape victims now have to pay off the rapists?

You do know that the terms of these employment contracts are negotiated when the corporations are recruiting these executives, not when they're firing them, right?

Just Checkin

143

... a resource that only looks valuable and is in fact worse than worthless, like a Zucker or an Olbermann or a Lindsay Lohan....

... or Bob Nardelli.

The last thing Jack Welch did at GE was to choose his successor and fire the runner-up. Bob Nardelli took the red ribbon in that contest and landed at Home Depot. After screwing that company up, HD paid him about $100 million to leave (worth every dime) and went off to Chrysler to work his magic there. ...

144

Ace, I think you're a little misguided on the populism here.  Zucker's getting a big package because of his original contract, not becuase he did a great job.

The perfect analogy is pro sports.  Your team drafts a highly rated prospect, pays him a giant signing bonus, and he turns out to be a complete bust.   Or, you sign a coach, the team misses the playoffs for three straight years and you pay the coach to get out of the contract so you can hire someone you think can win. 

 Is any of that a market failure?  No, markets have winners and losers and no one ever knows which will be which -- that's what a market is.  If NBC made a ton of money under Zucker, his contract would have been a great deal for the shareholders.  Instead the people representing the shareholders chose the wrong guy.  He was a bust, and now the shareholders take a bath and maybe don't hire a crazy liberal next time. 

145 #142 Really, I haven't watched NBC news for years.  I hope this means Olby isn't on Sunday NIght football anymore.  I couln't watch it.

146 Ace, the compensation package is payoff so they can get rid of the guy without him stripping the place down. It isn't something you can fix with legislation, its been tried and failed worse than the system we have now. The simple fact is that an exec is in a position where he can strip the company down and loot it, when you legislate their pay or compensation down, that is exactly what they do. In latin american countries they have the exact same problem with presidents looting the country.