1 Read my lips - no new taxes on those making less then $250K!

2 Render onto the Emperor everything, whether it is his or not.

3 To these scumbags, that's too much money that people are allowed to keep.

4 At that tax rate, the government will have lot's of money.

And we all get our free stuff!!!!
Whoo hoo, good times.

5 Trainer is 65.  I'd be more than happy to get a check from SS for what I paid in for 45 years.

6 I hear they're widening the 405 Road to Serfdom using stimulus funds--it's a shovel-ready project!

7 After all, this approach has been proven to work. In Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy.....

8 For those who missed the last thread: It's a good time to read, or re-read, Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson" (condensed verion, pdf). The classic, written in 1946, describes a dozen popular economic fallacies and their practical consequences. A must-read.

9 I heard Paul Ryan last week on Hugh Hewitt state that nobody is talking about in 2013 how Bammycare will inflict a $1.3 trillion tax on us all.  Why the hell isn't every fucking Republican screaming that so loud that the salad tossing media can't ignore it.  Fuck those assholes if they take a powder on that.  Every fucking one of them.

10 If you like your taxes, you can keep your taxes. If you are unhappy with your taxes, we shall give you more.

--Quotations from Chairman 0bama

11 Taxes? I say we show just how patriotic we are and all give 110%!

12 So we'll make working not worth it so we can pay other people not to work.

13 So we'll make working not worth it so we can pay other people not to work.

Posted by: nickless at July 18, 2011 12:16 PM (MMC8r)

Don't worry - the Depart of Digging Holes and the Department of Filling in Holes will always be hiring.

14 So, when the free Twinkies© and cigarette train runs out of steam - where will  all these leeches go to feed?

15 Trainer is 65.  I'd be more than happy to get a check from SS for what I paid in for 45 years.

At least you know you're going to get something. My cohort (Gen X) is likely to get a heaping helping of fuck-all, and not even a thank-you to ease the burn.

But we have this: even Obama has admitted that the SS "trust fund" is bullshit. That's progress -- every politician for decades has been insisting that there's actual money in the "trust fund" rather than piles of worthless IOU's.

16 Oops! Better link.

17 The writer goes on to note it gets worse from there, as economic output is reduced (by percentages greater than in the current Great Recession) by such a voracious tax code.

They really don't care. To communists like Obama and his hero from a bygone day FDR, it was never about simply getting in revenues. It is about 'fairness" and redistributing the wealth.

It doesn't matter than the available wealth will shrink to almost nothing forcing the entire population to live like 3rd world peons in dirt floor shacks. As long as everyone except the apparatchiks live in those dirt floor shacks.

18
I now have no doubt we were poised for recovery when Obama was sworn in.

Obama's stupid policies and weak leadership has pulled us into the economic doldrums.

19 The good news is that the liberals have been gracious enough not to ship us off to camps yet.  Savior your freedoms morons.

20

"If you're making under 200k, your taxes won't go up by one penny"...

That campaign promise had a half-life of approximately 0.345 picoseconds after Obama was elected.

21 You racist wingnuts owe me a mortgage.  And you better gimme some cash for gas in my car.

PAY ME!!!

22 70% Effective Marginal Rates Coming To a Neighborhood Near YouThere is no neighborhood near me, and that's not just happenstance.

23 Most people would stop working for "legal pay" way before their effective tax rates got that high.  We would go to barter or some other system that bypassed the government entirely.

24 Add state/local sales taxes, property taxes, utilities taxes and other "fees" to this, and it gets way worse.

25 This is you underneath the debt burden

26 They really don't care. To communists like Obama and his hero from a bygone day FDR, it was never about simply getting in revenues. It is about 'fairness" and redistributing the wealth.

I remember his O-ness was being interviewed about the cap gains tax. When it was pointed out raising it would hurt business, he said he was interested in "fairness"

27 #Winning!

28

The needs of government are above 70% of a citizen's serf's income.

I won, bitches.  Deal. 

29

All this means is that the underground economy is going to expand massively and revenues will not increase as expected despite the higher rates. Truly we are heading toward a Greece situation.

I wish I knew where to flee to. Canada is actually looking the best these days. Particularly the petro producing areas.

 

30 Whew, the formatting here is really fucking trick or treat.

I' ll take credit for my own  mistakes, but holy shit man.

31

Posted by: cranky-d at July 18, 2011 12:20 PM (nRliU)

"If it moves, tax it.  If it keeps moving, regulate it.  If it stops moving, subsidize it."

Leftist governing philosophy, as elaborated by Ronald Reagan.

32 Boned, oh very yes, boned.

33 They really are bringing back the late 1970's....

34 They really don't care. To communists like Obama and his hero from a bygone day FDR, it was never about simply getting in revenues. It is about 'fairness" and redistributing the wealth.

It doesn't matter than the available wealth will shrink to almost nothing forcing the entire population to live like 3rd world peons in dirt floor shacks. As long as everyone except the apparatchiks live in those dirt floor shacks.

Posted by: Vic

It's about power. The power to tax is the power to destroy.

Ask why Obama has not done more to stimulate the economy? Because that would  mean he would have less power and influence.

Rasising taxes to the nth degree will not actually increase revenue, but rather destroy it. But it is power, the power to rule and control.

Oh unhappy America. We are in thrall to a class of politician and businessman that cares nothing about virtue, the future or our posterity, let alone the traditions of Constitutional law.

They care only about themselves and power. And their handmaidens are the Fourth Estate, or the Fifth Column - whatever is in fashion this week.

35 good comment, thanks for you share!

36 Most people would stop working for "legal pay" way before their effective tax rates got that high.

Yep. Americans are very good taxpayers as a rule (esp. compared with e.g. the Greeks) but the State cannot tax without limit -- eventually the taxpayers revolt. The Laffer Curve is simply a recognition of a state of nature. The government can set the tax rate at whatever level it wishes, but it can only collect taxes at around 20% or so of GDP before the curve peaks and starts to go back down.

37 Let me be clear, when S-chip was passed my tobacco tax payments to the treasury suddenly dropped to zero.  I predict an identical outcome if marginal rates approach 50%

38

"If it moves, tax it.  If it keeps moving, regulate it.  If it stops moving, subsidize it." Leftist governing philosophy, as elaborated by Ronald Reagan.

Posted by: blue star at July 18, 2011 12:22 PM (N391g)

"I'm from the government, I'm here to help", eight most frightening words in the English language.

39 My cohort (Gen X) is likely to get a heaping helping of fuck-all, and not even a thank-you to ease the burn.

Monty, all you all will get nothing and like it!

40 70%... You're not working for yourself at that point, with the government taking a piece to pay for 'civilization'; at that point you're working for someone else and you get to keep the scraps.  Indentured servitude/slavery without the benefit of your master being expected to provide you housing, food and training in a craft.

41 "At the margin, virtually everyone would be working primarily for the government, reduced to a minority partner in their own labor."


Excluding of course the 50% who don't pay taxes and the 25% who already "work" for the govt.


Look for calls to increase income tax welfare credits in order to stimulate the economy and special programs for govt workers to shield them from any 'shared sacrifice"

42

I saw a bumper sticker yesterday:

There is Class Warfare

and the casualty is you

43

The needs of government are above 70% of a citizen's serf's income.

I won, bitches.  Deal. 

Posted by: Barracky Pissypants at July 18, 2011 12:22 PM (9hSKh)

IIRC, serf's effective tax rates rarely exceeded 50%. 70% is more in the realm of outright slavery

44 Since the Greeks have no taste in their mouth for cuts and limited government, or for paying the confiscatory taxes needed for soft socialism, let them realize their dream and erect a communist society. At least then they could serve as a valuable example for those remaining countries that have some chance of redemption.

45 Oooops wrong thread.

46
  What is with this "shipping to the camps" crap so prevalent? Are we talking analogies, perceptions or just what?

47 But are they going to increase the chocolate ration?

48 46
  What is with this "shipping to the camps" crap so prevalent? Are we talking analogies, perceptions or just what?

Posted by: irongrampa at July 18, 2011 12:26 PM (ud5dN)

1. Majority of America military deployed overseas

2. Rioting in the streets caused by "Tea Party"

3. G'vt needs money - seize assets and ship out dissenters

49 12 So we'll make working not worth it so we can pay other people not to work.

Posted by: nickless at July 18, 2011 12:16 PM (MMC8r)

Preach it, brother!

50

I read the best explantion of the MO of Obama and the Dems here a few weeks ago.

He simply figured he would get all of his spending programs passed and then later congresses would be forced to find a way to pay for them.

I think that is always the left's plan. Just keep the entitlement passed and let other people take the political hit related to increasing taxes.

51

Many Democrats demand no changes to Social Security and Medicare spending.

Does that include the half-trillion they already raided from Medicare to illegally and ridiculously super-charge future MediCAID expansion?  Has anyone forced the despicable, scumbag, lying dems to detail where that half-trillion is coming from?

52 I recall reading an article in Playboy written by some economist back in the 60s who said even then that when effective tax rates began to exceed 50% that voluntary income tax schemes fell apart through wide spread cheating.

Most people in the country pay a total effective tax rate of 50% now. If the sorry SOBs increase it any more you can stand by. And if this link is correct it is going to happen soon unless the House stops it.

Republicans, “No!  Not spending cuts!  No!  Not program cuts!  No!  Tax increases!  ThatÂ’s the ticket!  Glad we thought of it!”

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 18, 2011 11:57 AM (jx2j9)

53 Thanks for the link to Hazlitt.  It's a tremendously useful and elegant piece of writing.

54 Does that include the half-trillion they already raided from Medicare to illegally and ridiculously super-charge future MediCAID expansion?

That fact is hateful and racist.

55

 At the margin, virtually everyone would be working primarily for the government, reduced to a minority partner in their own labor.

Feature, not bug.

56 " That teacher working a summer job"

With 9+% "official" unemployment and 16+% U-6, where are all these jobs that teachers are supposedly working?


Anecdotal, but of the 4 high school teachers and 2 middle school teachers in my neighborhood, all 6 are lounging around complaining that they are not going to get their normal 6+% raises at contract time, and how unfair it is that teachers in the nearby big city have been laid off even though the number of students has been dropping every year for the past two decades.

57

9--what the Cap'n says.

We were sold into serfdom with the cramdown of Ocare. Pubs were given one last chance in '10, mainly to eliminate Ocare by any means necessary. Now they are silent about it. Failure to pull out the stops to undo Ocare = failure to get my vote going forward for alll GOP.  that includes my first year GOP Congresscritter. He fails, he's out. Simple as that.

58   What is with this "shipping to the camps" crap so prevalent? Are we talking analogies, perceptions or just what?
Posted by: irongrampa at July 18, 2011 12:26 PM (ud5dN)

The left has repeatedly called for criminalizing conservatism. And Obama's mentor Ayers specifically called for labor camps and murdering something like 10% of the population along the Soviet model.

59 Yes, and...?

60 He simply figured he would get all of his spending programs passed and then later congresses would be forced to find a way to pay for them.

Yes, it is the Inverse Grover Norquist strategy - increase spending so much so as to create a perceived inevitability of raising taxes to pay for it

61 High speed rail!

62 But if we exempt public school teachers from taxes, your premise falls to pieces, doesn't it? DOESN'T IT?!

63 70% isn't high enough; we'll never become Europe at this rate!

64 Anyone who complains about 70% tax rates clearly betrays a certain racial animosity, an antipathy to people who don't look like them.

I hope someday we can overcome this sad legacy of racial hatred that too many of my Republican friends seem unable to put aside.

We have too many millionaires unwilling to share their wealth. Private jets. First class airplane seats. These are things that should be reserved for the public servants, not corporate greed.

65 and how unfair it is that teachers in the nearby big city have been laid off even though the number of students has been dropping every year for the past two decades.

See, if we just legalized illegal immigration, this problem would go away...and we'd have an excuse to go on a total language immersion "course" in Acapulco twice a year.

66 And Obama's mentor Ayers specifically called for labor camps and murdering something like 10% of the population along the Soviet model.

Now, now. Don't exaggerate.  They estimated they would have to "kill, I mean kill, 25 million people" in the camps.

67 Failure to pull out the stops to undo Ocare = failure to get my vote going forward for alll GOP.

They only control one house of Congress.  They passed an Obamacare repeal bill.  It predictably died in the Senate.  What more do you expect them to do?

68 Stop paying lazy, dope-headed bums to not work.  Welfare should be cut now!  There is a 40 something guy who lives near me (with his bum of a mother) who doesn't work and has never worked.  He has no physical limitations to keep him from working.  These people are pure trash, but they keep the roads hot with their many vehicles, atvs, and motorcycles.  They seem to eat very well and don't seem to want for anything.  Out of curiousity, I called the local social service office to inquire about the qualifications for getting food stamps.  To my surprise, I was told that there basically were no qualifications for getting food stamps as well as other assistance.  I was told it was basically "walk up and ask".  So, this trash gets food stamps, have had their house weatherized, have had a new roof put on and new gutting - all at tax payer's expense.  It is pathetic!  I hope this kind of trash has to eat out of the garbage before they leave this world!

69

 

"Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato "

-  Jefferson Detto : Volume Otto

70 They only control one house of Congress.  They passed an Obamacare repeal bill.  It predictably died in the Senate.  What more do you expect them to do?

Posted by: chemjeff at July 18, 2011 12:36 PM (czcue)

Condition debt ceiling rise on repeal. I know, way too much to expect of the GOP. Which is why I'm voting against by GOP Congressman.

71

The only reason greedy Rethugnicans don't want to pay their fair share in taxes is because they're too busy raping the environment and disenfranchising black people, like my Barack. 

As soon as I graduate and then get a job I'm going to volunteer to pay the highest tax rate, because Jesus was a liberal.

72 what the left forgets about the sacred promise of social security was also that the 1.5% or whatever it was of the payroll withholding was enough to pay for the benefits. If it has to dip into the general fund, then the thing's a failure and the promise is broken.

73 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27etat

Typically, a coup d'état uses the extant government's power to assume political control of the country. In Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook, military historian Edward Luttwak says, "A coup consists of the infiltration of a small, but critical, segment of the state apparatus, which is then used to displace the government from its control of the remainder", thus, armed force (either military or paramilitary) is not a defining feature of a coup d'état.

74 @ 48--Oh, sure, that's certainly gonna work . I'm thinking you'd see massive civil disobedience, backed up with the requisite number of weapons.  But mostly massive disobedience.  The conditions required for that scenario, imho, would be too difficult to create and execute, simply because of our existing form of government, flawed though it is RIGHT NOW The perfect reply would be the Declaration of Independence--actually, just the preamble.

75 What is with this "shipping to the camps" crap so prevalent? Are we talking analogies, perceptions or just what?

It's called the reality of collectivism. Something has to be done about those who refuse to join the collective. Invariably every regime which has been faced with the problem of individuals rejecting the concept of collective society eventually comes up with the same final solution to it.

At some point, and probably soon, the left in this country will realize they can never have socialism in this country as long as we are around. Given that they are willing to use any means to accomplish their goals, what solution then will they come up with to solve their little problem we so colloquially refer to as "us"

At what point will political frustration give way to alternate means?

Or will they be content to never achieve their desires?

So I would say it is perception. As we frustrate them politically and block them at every turn, as their venom spews ineffectually, their anger and frustration and none to subtle calls for violence can be seen on every blog, and is not even thinly veiled when their mouthpiece the MFM speaks in their stead.How much longer are they willing to let us play this little game and continue to thwart them?

76 they're too busy raping the environment

Wow, even I never thought of that one.

Hey Gaia, how'd you like to drop in for a private discussion?

77 At some point, and probably soon, the left in this country will realize they can never have socialism in this country as long as we are around.

This is why they must dehumanize us.  We are racists, homophobes, etc.  HBO/Maher nightly wish to hate rape our females.

78 Is Gaia a registered voter?

79
This is why they must dehumanize us.  We are racists, homophobes, etc.  HBO/Maher nightly wish to hate rape our females.

Posted by: cherry π at July 18, 2011 12:44 PM (OhYCU)

Who said anything about just the females?

80 Marginal rates people, marginal rates. The marginal rate is the change in tax on the next dollar earned when going from one tax bracket to another. The worse problem is going to be bracket creep when wage inflation kicks in. Obama's entire economic plan is to flood the system with dollars.

81 @77--nice, concise post. I submit THAT should provide sufficient impetus to work very hard to render the left impotent and meaningless.

 I'd have to conclude THEIR perception would justify any means to their ends, at some point.

   Frightening people.

82 yeah, you guys used to sneer at the libs, but they're dangerous. And they just realized that they can have guns and badges too.

83 BRB, stitching the economy's asshole back together. Never mind. It tore again.

84 80 Is Gaia a registered voter?

Posted by: gastorgrab at July 18, 2011 12:44 PM (sTBZu)

What do YOU think?

85 This is really stupid and inefficient. Why not just tax everyone at 100%? You can't do shit with 30% of your pay anyhow. Everyone gets a gruel cup and shuffles through the government chow line three times a day. Snikka-snak, bitches! Hunger is a thing of the past! Plus, with the surplus we'll have, we'll have plenty of money to fund Middle Eastern governments with enough left over for experimental homo interpretive dance troupes and douchebag hipster urban rooftop microfarm sustainability grants. Everybody wins! And with the new beige unitards you'll be issued, you won't have to waste time wondering what to wear.

86 They only control one house of Congress.  They passed an Obamacare repeal bill.  It predictably died in the Senate.  What more do you expect them to do?

Posted by: chemjeff at July 18, 2011 12:36 PM (czcue)

Make continual noise about what a fucking jobs and economy killer it is.  When's the last time you've heard Boehner talk about it?  Ditto McConnell?  It should be repeated so many times that the MFM gets tired of avoiding it.  Just because they had a vote in the House doesn't absolve them from the need to keep it front and center in the nation's consciousness.  This is a winning issue for them and they seem to be doing their fucking best, in true Party of Stoopid fashion, of squandering it.

87 I'm boycotting Drew M's threads, so while I wait...

An online campaign has been launched in Russia urging young women to support Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in a presidential vote by taking off their clothes

88 Hey folks; I am FOR a tax increase myself. I say we should pass an amendment that initiates a flat 15% tax on ALL income regardless of source and amount and get rid of all other taxes.

That would be a tax increase for 51% of the population.

89 Bring it!

90

I disapprove of you using a public school teacher in your hypothetical example.  Everyone knows that public school teachers are the laziest filth in the United States of America.

They don't actually pay any taxes.  They're exempt or something. 

And they pay nothing for their lavish pensions and their Cadillac healthcare.

Plus, everybody knows that public school teachers get to teach the best of the best.  The vast majority of their students are considerate, caring, respectful, and extremely hard working.

If we could only break up the unholy alliance between the teachers' unions and the Democratic party, all of our educational problems would quickly be corrected.  Our deficits would probably be wiped away, too.

Did I mention that public school teachers are brainless union thugs, easily manipulated by their evil union leaders? 

Just checking.

91 They only control one house of Congress.  They passed an Obamacare repeal bill.  It predictably died in the Senate.  What more do you expect them to do?

Posted by: chemjeff at July 18, 2011 12:36 PM (czcue)

Attaching the repeal of ObamaCare to every MUST-PASS piece of legislation they've had come out of the House (CRs, the budget, and the debt limit) until it got repealed.  That's what they were hired to do, not dick around with bullshit spending cuts while MediCAID is supercharged and expanding for eternity.

The GOP screwed the pooch in the 112th and they've screwed that poor pooch pretty badly.

92 "70% Effective Marginal Rates Coming To a Neighborhood Near You"

But that's not slavery slavery. It's mere indentured servitude to the State. Technically, you'll be free at some point... maybe on your deathbed, and you'll be able to pass on your savings to you kids. 'Cept the Death Tax will eat that, too.

Maybe it's time to start asking the North Koreans the best recipes to season grass.

93 What is with this "shipping to the camps" crap so prevalent? Are we talking analogies, perceptions or just what?

You didn't give "reality" as an option.

Well for starters..... take a peek at the vid from an undercover FBI agent that infiltrated the Weather Underground.

http://tinyurl.com/6x6sor

Enjoy!!!  And sleep tight to-nite!!!

94 Troll should be daunted/silenced by the fact that his hyperbole meets reality in many respects. I would suggest watching the Cartel or Waiting For Superman for some non-snark input. And as for public school administrators (as many of these union thugs don't actually teach), you can see how brain dead they are by watching their, ah...how do you say, intellectual curiosity in Wisconsin.

95 Two years ago I ran and operated a small construction business in California.  Bad move you might say, but I went to school to be an engineer, my family was in construction and things were going well when I started.  When things got tight and I had a harder and harder time paying the bills, I started figuring out exactly how much I was sending to the state and the feds as a total instead of a payment here and a payment there.  I figured out that my company which consisted of me and occasionally a few other guys was paying seven times to the tax system than I was making for my family.  7 hours out of every 8 hour day was sent to the state and feds as some form of taxation.  This is why we are dying as a country and things are progressively getting worse.  You can't start a business, you can't innovate anymore unless you are extremely wealthy and can support all of these taxes and it is virtually impossible to survive as a small business.  Small businesses used to be the lifeblood of this country and  we have strangled them to death. 

96 Basically, at a 70% tax rate, we're serfs.

Y'all better start stretching whatever holes you have, because Precedent Pull-ups will probably reintroduce droit de seigneur  and primae noctis.

97

The difference between the Communists and Washington used to be that Washington let you keep 50% of what you made.

 

But that was under the RINOs.

 

Can't wait for a Romney or a Perry when rates will only reach 55%.

 

A workers paradise with an all wise and caring government.

 

Suckers.

98 Downscaled,

I just saw your post.  How did things get like this?  I know my story isn't in anyway unique as you also point out, this is going on in every aspect of business.  I am trying something new but I spend more time trying to figure out the laws and accounting regulations than just about anything else.  Actually doing the work is the easy part, figuring out the tax and accounting so we don't pay huge taxes and ruin the business is the difficult stuff. 

How do we, as a people get this fixed so that we can actually have a business and make an economy that works?  Our problem right now is we aren't in a downturn or recession our economy fundamentally doesn't work because of way way way too many taxes, rules and regulations.

99 But if Teh Rich just paid their Fair Share then ... then... Utopia!!

100 Downscaled,
If you are still reading this thread, having been a contractor that dealt with a lot of the government agencies, your statement that they would find a way, I would argue is unfortunately not true.  The truth of government, and I see this every day, is not that all government workers are bad, it's that the bad ones are allowed to continue to stay and contribute nothing and cannot be fired.  The second and third order effects of this are incredible and destructive.  These cancers destroy the will of good people (why should I work hard for my paycheck when so and so makes more and does nothing) or make it so hard for people to get things done, they simply can't get things done.  This one aspect of government employment means that there has to be millions more people on the payroll and not accomplishing anything.  Whoever is keeping these employees employed is the problem that needs to be solved.  My mother runs a health organization for our county.  She has one woman that works for her that does everyone's work while five others sit around, do personal stuff and don't do anything.  The woman who does the work is a survivor of a methadone clinic that has to stay busy for herself while the others literally do nothing and cannot be fired or disciplined.  My mother made a comment about being on time to work once and a union rep came to her office to complain about discipline without union reps being present.  Our regulations and laws that we have passed and live with are simply out of control.

101 Wow this is soo helpful I have been trying to figure this out on my own for a long time now. Hopefully making this change will help encourage discussion on my blog.

102

WHO IS GOING TO TELL US WHERE ALL THE BILLIONS WENT IN IRAQ & AFGANISTAN?    DC IS NOT FESSING UP TO US TAXPAYERS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON OVER THERE AND HAS BEEN.  BILLIONS UNACCOUNTED FOR AND WE ARE STILL AND WILL NEVER STRAIGHTEN THIS MESS OUT THERE.  

READ MY LIPS:   THEY DON'T WANT US THERE!  JUST OUR $$$$$$$$$$$