1 God bless our troops.

2 Any of us that have spent time in military Aviation, understand how special this is. They retired my plane, the F-14. When I heard that I felt a sense of sadness and pride. Very conflicting emotions. Even though I havn't touched one in 24 years.

3 Certainly, this is the "highlight" of Bud's career. But most folks don't know he was a Marine in the Pacific (3rd DB), did two tours in Korea flying F-84's and then volunteered for Vietnam when he could have comfortably retired as an O-4.

I like his AF service best of course.;-)

4 Down south we have our own vintage aircraft group known as the Dixie Wing. No B24's but they do have a P-51.

5 It is so refreshing to know there is still a corps of patriots who treasure this country, its history and the honor of military service.

God bless the troops no matter how misguided their CinC may be!

6 My uncle was a navigator on a B-24.
He and the crew with which he had flown 43 missions were killed in action.
They could have quit after 25 but stuck it out til the bitter end, dedicated to one another.
We still produce soldiers, sailors and airmen with these values.

7 Gorgeous restorations. Thanks for the MoH story too. Of course, thanks to Col. Day and all who serve. All full text citations for the MoH can be found here.
 
The other day a story was posted about an overheard Taliban radio transmission. The Taliban leader was asking his fighters why they weren't attacking US forces. The answer:
 
"When we shoot at them they run towards the bullets."
 
That pretty much says it all.

8 I hope a B-24, F-4 or F-100 drops a bomb on these spammers. Annoying dirtbags.

9 I had to invoke Monty's "no spam in the first 10 comments" rule on that one. Buh-bye.

10 I recently took a bunch of kids to a similar collection of operating vintage planes.  Fascinating in every way and the stories behind the planes gave us all new appreciation for the meaning of sacrifice. If you get up to Toronto, check out the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in nearby Hamilton.  http://www.warplane.com/   

11

Saw the B-17, B-24 and P-51 here about a year ago.  Pics.

 

Cool story Andy.

12 Sorry to go O/T so soon Andy but your thread will probably be the only thread for the next several hours. Here is some data and analysis from the Ryan budget plan for 2012. These are taken from the actual bill.

Fiscal year 2012 revenue (taxes?): $1,866,454,000,000.

Fiscal year 2012 budget authority: $2,858,546,000,000.

 Fiscal year 2012 total budget outlay (actual spending?): $2,947,917,000,000.

 Fiscal year 2012 budget deficit: $1,081,463,000,000.

Debt limit (bill has increases out to 2021):

Fiscal year 2012: $16,204,000,000,000.

Gee how many morons knew that this bill would increase the debt limit?

If the total “outlay” is actual spending this truly is a cut.

Republicans who voted against the Ryan budget bill

Walter B. Jones NC-3 (RINO ACU rating 2010 = 65)

David McKinley WV-1 (no rating, new member)

Ron Paul TX-14 (NUTCASE, TX)

Denny Rehberg MT-1 (ACU 2010 = 96)

McKinley and Rehberg stated they voted against it because of Medicare changes.  That is BS because those changes are so far in the future they are immaterial.

Ron Paul voting against it because he said it didnÂ’t go far enough. 

13

Well Done Andy and Thanks .  When I was in the Air Force, the 100 was doing all the tough work and was getting ready for the boneyard. Sadly, few are around anymore.

Some may call these machines of war, but I see these aircraft as symbols of Honor, Bravery and Selfless Service. 

God bless our TROOPS!!

14 What does this have to do with Cowboy Poetry?

15 O/T:  Bloody hell, ugly night last night.  Storm system spawned something around 80 (!!!) twisters last night over several states, they're still trying to peg the damage around here.  Unfortunately they're also finding dead and injured, one hit near our Boy Scout camp and killed at least 3 people.  Don't know if there's badness on the camp grounds proper--that was a nearby residential area--but I can't imagine it went unscathed.

Folks, pray for everyone who got hit last night.  There were counties nearby that seemed to spend hours under Tornado Warnings--this was a historic storm in a very bad way, and folks are going to be hurting.

16 Hey, that's two hours from me. I guess that explains the B-24 and B-17 I saw fly over my house a few years ago.

17 A few years ago a B-17 flew into the Lebanon, NH airport.  I believe it was operated by these guys. For $20 you could take a tour. For $500 you got to take a flight.  I took the tour and was mentally doing the calculations: "Well, I could live on Ramen and cat food for a month," but I couldn't make the numbers work, so I just took the tour.

18   Had the opportunity to inspect several old warbirds, plus some WW2 vintage vehicles like jeeps, etc, and one thing struck me about ALL of them--how bloody well built they are.

  For something with a very short projected life, the attention to detail and construction is amazing. My personal favorite, the jeep had a combat life expectancy of 90 days. I've personally seen several unrestored jeeps with up to 90% of their ORIGINAL paint remaining. What a glowing testimonial to American manufacturing.

19 This is really freakin' awesome.

20

Shortcut to budget bill

There is an anomaly in the bill for stated discretionary spending:

(1) new budget authority, $1,019,402,000,000; and

(2) outlays, $1,170,384,000,000

Those number do not jive with the "mandatory" spending listed in the Obama budget of 2.44T. If you add 2.44T to the outlay that would make 3.61T total. That 2.44T included a shift of the porkulous to the "madatory" category which Ryan may have removed but the bill does not mention it. So one wonders where the discrepancy comes in at?

The only thing on the mandatory spending that I could find is an absolute limit during the next 10 years of 5T.
5T doesn't sound like much of a limit.

21 My Dad founded and operated The Radio Shop at the airport in Worcester, MA for 27yrs before retiring in 2000. They did the avionics in a number of Colling's aircraft over the years. I was at his shop the day they flew the TBM in to have the radios installed. It was fresh from its complete restoration and the flight to my Dad's place was one of its very first flights... what a beautiful airplane. If I remember correctly, they found it out west somewhere being used as a water bomber for forest fires. On the flight to MA for restoration they lost the engine which sprayed oil all over the windscreen and crash landed it in a field somewhere. It sat there for about a year before they were able to finally transport it to MA.

22 Thank God for men like Col. Day and the people that keep their machines and memories alive.

That was a great video.

23

Wow, that was a very inspirational and moving video. Thank goodness Col. Day is still around to share his story with the younger generations. And talk about a chest full of fruit salad, it'd be easier to count the medals he hasn't been awarded.

We are indeed fortunate to have such folks among us.

Heros, I think they're called.

24 Too cool! I plan on going to the Dayton Air Show, I hope swing by there.

25

BackwardsGirl's dad was a glider pilot in WWII and later a corporate jet jockey. He was a fine man and I miss him.

My mother worked at the Birmingham airport during that same conflict. She told me she knew a couple of the crew from the Enola Gay. She also mentioned that she and some friends would hijack some flight suits and sneak rides aboard the planes when the pilots needed air time.

Years later, I had the pleasure of working with a fellow named Charlie Yeager at MSFC. The guy "had NASA in his pocket," and had done just about every little behind-the-scenes job at Marshall that you could think of. He was a very cool dude and a lot of fun to work with.

Yeah, my few brushes with pilots and astronauts and the all folks in aviation have all been unique and memorable. They are a breed apart from mere mortals, and rightly so. If we didn't have airplanes, we would've been forced to create something similar just so we could see the right stuff in action.

26 That big band of T-storms is just getting to my neck of the woods in NC. From 10 AM to 2 PM seems to be when we can expect the worst of it. So far, we've just got very high winds. The plan is to go to the movies around noon, hopefully that's practical. I'm not driving through a shitstorm just for Ayn Rand and some Twizzlers.

27

Collings is awesome!!  My husband's sibs bought him a ride on the B-17 for his 50th birthday 3 years ago. We went over to Trenton airport to do it.  We ended up buying some DVDs and shirts and hats to go along with it.  He said it was the best day of his life other than his wedding day and the births of his kids.  We are close enough to Trenton that occasionally we will see the Collings planes flying over our house on their way in. 

The rides cost around $400 but they are SOOO worth it!

28 Great story, although I think these guys have more planes and I think they have a B-24 too.  Pussy changed their name.  PC strikes again.

http://tinyurl.com/27so6of

29 The Commemorative Air Force has had an operational B-24 for years.  However, it is an A model, not a J.  It's an impressive airplane...until you see their B-29...

I had an uncle (now deceased) who was a B-29 gunner in the 509th Bomb Group, although this was just after the war, so he wasn't around when they gave the Japanese their much-deserved atomic ass-kicking.  He attended a CAF airshow once and when the CAF guys found out what he'd done and in what, and that he still had all the manuals, documentation, etc from his days in the 509th, they were beside themselves wanting to see what he had.

As for Col. Day, clearly he has balls that haven't been counted yet, as those Commie douchebags in Vietnam can attest.  Oorah, Colonel...

30 I was on the tourists'-tour in the Collings B-24, staying behind the cattle-ropes and all, when it became evident that a little old lady was up in the gear loft, behind and above the cockpit. A guide was hustled up there, and he said, "Ma'am, no one's allowed behind the markers."

"Oh," she said,  "You caught me. I used to install the wiring harnesses up in here at Willow Run, and I just had to see if I could still fit in!"

Everybody from the bomb-bay to the nose suddenly had trouble with their glasses, and had to get handkerchieves out to wipe them off.

"You stay there as long as you like," he told her. "If you need any help getting down, just let me know." She did stay, and  she didn't need help.

Beto@7, your uncle was deaf in his left ear, wasn't he? (They all were).

31

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 16, 2011 10:10 AM (xMT+4)

Yikes! Be careful. I heard on the radio this morning that this storm has killed 17 people so far.

32

Great story Andy. There are lots of groups and museums taht host all kinds of reenactments of WWII. If you're ever in Ohio you have to go to Wright/Patterson AFB Dayton and the National Air Force Museum. http://tinyurl.com/25bqag

We've been to just about every one but one of the best authentic reenactments is DDay Ohio. It's in a little town in the far NE corner of the state named Conneaut, seems the beach is the closest to Omaha beach they found in this country. Lots going on and lots of history.   http://www.ddayohio.us/

33 Wow, what a tale of sheer guts and devotion! Whenever I thought that surely his ordeal must be coming to an end, it would just get worse. It makes me heartily ashamed of myself, just on general principles.

34 O/T I don't know if it's national or regional thing but the local Sunoco station is selling gas for 3.67. Yesterday was 3.91. Owner said it was a Sunoco rebate or something and that's why all the pumps were marked "pay first". There's got to be something going on, because even the station across the street is down to 3.77. This is a small town (6000) and word got out pretty fast. Cops are directing traffic now because of the lines. (Station is on main street) Except for the prices, I was having flashbacks to '78.

35

If you're ever in Ohio you have to go to Wright/Patterson AFB Dayton and the National Air Force Museum

Posted by: Deanna at April 16, 2011 10:36 AM (TPNM5)

 

I've been there well over a dozen times and I never tire of the visit. In fact, I plan on going again in the next couple weeks. I'm fortunate that I only live an hour away.

And I'm still pissed we didn't get a shuttle.

36 2 Any of us that have spent time in military Aviation, understand how special this is. They retired my plane, the F-14. When I heard that I felt a sense of sadness and pride. Very conflicting emotions. Even though I havn't touched one in 24 years.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at April 16, 2011 07:26 AM (cDRYC)

Yeah, I bet you and "Maverick" were crying like babies. Damn squids...JK :-)

37 The Doolittle Raiders' last remaining members are at the Strategic Air & Space Museum SW of Omaha this weekend, and down in Lincoln.  Gary Sinise is appearing here tomorrow, I heard.  Hope I can get down to see both.

38 Saw the AAF B25 "Executive Sweet" circling my shop here in SoCal yesterday morning, and a 2 bird flight of P51s running parallel to the ocean on my commute home last week. The nearby Camarillo Airport has lots of warbirds either home ported there or passing through on a regular basis. It's not unusual to see at least one WWII-era warbird in the air per week, year-round. Warms my shriveled black heart, it does.

39 Thanks for posting this, Andy.

40 #41

Speaking of Doolittle raiders, the history channel had a four hour show on the mission.  Really good stuff.  Check to see it, if you can.  You know they started 200 miles further out than planned and only by God's grace did any of them survive.  The wind changed and gave them a 150 MPH tail wind after their bombing run so they most of them made it to China.

Doolittle thought he was going to be court marshaled because they wrecked the planes instead of getting them to the Nationalist Chinese. 

They gave him the Congressional Medal of Honor.

41 this post has been the top post 5 hours and 44 minutes and has only 44 comments. That's less than 8 comments per hour.

42 I saw Collings' B-17 and B-24 back in the mid-'90s up at Martin State Airport outside Baltimordor.  The friend I was visiting had invited the father of a co-worker, an elderly gentleman who had flown as a bombardier on B-24Js with the Fifteenth AF out of Italy.  The group of us all being total airpower nerds, we were in heaven wandering around those beautiful warbirds with this guy telling us stories.

The co-worker (the bombardier's daughter) had apparently never heard most of the stories of even seen a B-17 or B-24 up close, because she was stunned when she saw the Liberator and heard this guy talk about what it was like.  She couldn't believe how cramped it was, and was shocked to hear that the nose turret gunners on the J-model Liberator were actually locked into the tiny turret; in case of a bail-out, the bombardier had to unlock the door to let the gunner out because he couldn't reach the door release himself (his back would be against it).

The story of his 24th and last mission was amazing.  They had taken flak hits over the target in Austria that they were bombing, and in addition to severe damage to the hydraulics, they had a 500-pound bomb get hung up in the bomb bay...and the fuze had armed it.  Now the bomb bay in a B-24 has a catwalk, basically an I-beam, running across the center and attached to the ceiling by beams forming a V.  He couldn't cross it wearing a parachute, the opening between the beams was too narrow.  So he ended up on that beam, bomb bay doors open, 10,000 feet over the Adriatic Sea, standing on a steel girder covered with slippery hydraulic fluid, wearing no parachute, and whacking a live 500-pound bomb with a fire axe trying to knock it loose from the shackles holding it.  If I did something like that, I'd make sure the whole world knew so I could get free drinks forever.  He, on the other hand, just shrugged it off and said, "well, somebody had to do it, and I handled the bombs."

They never got the bomb loose.  When the plane got back to Italy, it landed hard and ran off the end of the steel-plank runway (no brakes).  Then the bomb decided to fall out and explode...under and behind the B-24..  He showed us pictures of the wreck and I have no clue how anybody survived, but they only lost one crewmember though everyone else was injured to some extent, some quite badly.  He was in the hospital until the war ended but suffered no permanent damage.

43

"well, somebody had to do it, and I handled the bombs."

This guy can have my middle name.

44

Comatus, love your story.  Have had similar experiences myself volunteering at a military aviation museum in San Diego (where, BTW, most B-24s were made, by the prime contractor Consolidated, which also created the PBY Catalina - the last of the war-time production buildings is still easily recognizable - white paint, odd jagged saw-tooth roof design - just besides the I-5 freeway near the east end of the airport - now used by the Navy SPAWAR electronics activity).

My favorite was a father-son two-some that came in.  Asian, turned out to be Chinese - the son a local and a US citizen, his father visiting from Taiwan. 

It's pretty much a self-guided museum, but I try to go along with the older vets and interesting visitors to at least discuss the warbirds.  As we go outside and the father gets a glimpse of the TBM, he says "that's it!  that's it" and points at the plane.  His son looks at me, puzzled.  I of course ask what it is about the TBM that is so special - his son talks to him in Chinese, and finds out.

Turns out the father had grown up right next to a Japanese airfield in the then-Formosa (Japanese controlled from long before WWII).  As a boy, he and friends had watched and cheered when US aircraft from Task Force 78 (large carrier battle group) had raided the Japanese air base, mostly with TBMs streaking down the flight line, their rear gunners raking the Japanese aircraft with fire.  The parents had scolded the boys of course, fearful of Japanese reprisals.

The son was speechless - so was I. 

A fellow volunteer has become a good friend.  He's 30 years older - an absolute classic WWII generation character, in great shape.  An aviation Marine who was in boot camp on Pearl Harbor day ("great timing!" he always jokes), was at Guadalcanal and Okinawa.  He has described watching the kamikaze attacks on the fleet at Okinawa - and he was interested to hear my account of my recent visit to the kamikaze museum at Chiran near Kagoshima, southern Japan.  I can't get enough of the WWII vets.

A metaphor for (most of) the country here in San Diego - WWII history is everywhere, from street names to military bases est. in that period, to the Consolidated building, to the artillery installations on Pt. Loma - yet you won't find one person in 10,000 who has a clue.  So depressing to ask locals if they can see any pattern in street names like Midway, Nimitz, Convoy .... yikes.

It's up to us few history geeks to preserve some knowledge and passion for our past, I guess.   

45 45
this post has been the top post 5 hours and 44 minutes and has only 44 comments.

That's less than 8 comments per hour.

Most of us are in our tornado shelters until 2:00 PM

46 don't be afraid of a little wind

47 We need a thread hack like this Battery Hack.

48 Most of us are in our tornado shelters until 2:00 PM

Posted by: Kemp at April 16, 2011 11:52 AM (JpFM9)

Yeah this crap is conspiring against my tomato plant I just potted. last weekend it was golf-ball sized hail. Luckily I had moved the plant to the back porch because of the wind before the hail hit.

I went out to move it again just now and I was too late. The damn wind had already blown if off the table I had it on into the yard. A damn 35 or 40 pound pot!

49 #51
This is something an Opera singer would do, oh, never mind.

50 holy crap, Col. Day had an amazing journey
it's a miracle he's even alive
wow that's awesome

51 If we'd only pay more taxes to Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama, we could control the weather. Something to chew on.

52 #51

Maybe it was Timrod  who is the singer or is it sTevo?

53 holy crap, Col. Day had an amazing journey
it's a miracle he's even alive
wow that's awesome

Posted by: chemjeff at April 16, 2011 11:58 AM (7mSYS)

Dogfights on the History Channel did one of their re-enactments of his mission. Like you said, amazing.

54 I am excited to write checks to various Gubmints for a  little over $15,000.  I feel sicker by the minute as April 18th approaches.  Now I need to find a job so I can afford the taxes I owe.

55 This "Smart Military Blog" sure can't seem to stop referring to MOH recipients as "winners" or discontinue speaking of having "won" the honor.  It's not a contest, people.  And stop apostrophizing possessive "its."

56 I wish I was in a tornado shelter. I'm at a birthday party w/ my 6 year-old son at some McDojo. It's hard to tell who would be the tougher opponenet. Sensei Ashley doesn't have the natural low center of gravity that Sensei Gordon's beer gut affords him, but her ass is definitely wider, making it harder to get behind her for a choke. So it's kind of a toss up.

57 Singer?

58 tmi3rd is an opera singer. He was singing the national anthem at the KC Royals - Toronto Bluejays game.

59

It's up to us few history geeks to preserve some knowledge and passion for our past, I guess.   

If only there were a great "gender confused spirit being" pilot escape from the VC/Nazis story.  Suddenly it would all be relevant again.

If only there were some movement, once allied with the Nazis, complicit in the Holocaust, once again pushing to exterminate the Jews, this time in Israel.  THEN military history would be really relevant.  Especially if it was _right now_ angling to govern a dozen nations in the Middle East. 

 

Hint for dumbass Progressives: That last bit referred to the Muslim Brotherhood and is actually happening.  Qaradawi is their leader and Al-Banna was allied with Hitler.     

60 Nice. Now they're sparring with foam swords and Sensei Ashley just took one in the tit.

61 it's a special kind of person who is willing to spend a Saturday morning/afternoon with a bunch of screaming kids

62

Hint for dumbass Progressives: That last bit referred to the Muslim Brotherhood and is actually happening.  Qaradawi is their leader and Al-Banna was allied with Hitler.     

Posted by: Beagle at April 16, 2011 12:11 PM (sOtz/)

I can't wait for Israel to go mid-evil on the various muzzie terrorist groups.  Pretty soon she won't have a choice.  I wonder what Barky will do then?

63 62 tmi3rd is an opera singer. He was singing the national anthem at the KC Royals - Toronto Bluejays game. Posted by: Empire of Jeff

I vaguely remember that thread.

64 From the same airport trip as earlier...we ran across a guy who had been a nose gunner on B-24Js.  That's where we found out that the nose turret gunners got locked inside.  The original B-24s just had a glassed-in "greenhouse" nose with a single machine gun in it, but they quickly found they needed more firepower.  So instead of going the B-17 route and keeping the nose the same but adding a chin turret, Consolidated redesigned the nose to stick a twin .50-caliber turret on it.

Anyway, this guy was six-foot-one at least.  And the nose turret on a B-24J doesn't look like a five-year-old would have room to get in there, much less an adult.  I asked the guy, "how the heck did you even fit in that thing?"  He just grinned, patted his stomach, and said, "I was a lot skinnier back then."

There's a reason they called 'em "The Greatest Generation."

65 This link was forwarded off to my uncle who owns El Paso Aero in Texas. Turns out he has history with this aircraft and Collings as well. Just received this email from him:

"Thanks for the up-date on the F-100FÂ’s successful flight from El Paso to Stow, MA. We had just completed the IFR certification of that aircraft(see our WO#062785). From El Paso, it went to Midland, TX for painting & registration (tail) number change. It belonged to our next-door neighbor here on the airport. He sold it to the Collings Foundation late January and we did the final instrumentation certifications required every two years. This aircraft is one of only two flyable F-100Â’s in existence. My duties when in the Air Force, was maintaining the radar/gun-sight systems on the F-100 as well as the F-84 & F-86 fighter jets at Eglin AFB, Florida circa 1956-1960.

66 OT

Obama: Raise debt ceiling or risk global recession

67 this post has been the top post 5 hours and 44 minutes and has only 44 comments. That's less than 8 comments per hour. Posted by: statistical soothsayer at April 16, 2011 11:44 AM (uFokq) Thread requires- Doom Obama Bacon breasts Some extremely nerdy thing or a combination of all 5 to exceed 10 per hour.

68 I think the ONT has gotten too tough for some to load and everyone is afraid to thread on this thread and make it an open thread by default.

69 the rate of comments have now exceeded 11/hour that's a 3000% increase

70 "Morgan Stanley fund fails to repay debt on Tokyo property""A Morgan Stanley property fund failed to make $3.3 billion in debt payments by a deadline on Friday, handing over the keys to a central Tokyo office building to Blackstone (BX.N) and other investors, the largest repayment failure of its kind in Japan."

What else can you say?  but omG!

71 Obama: Raise debt ceiling or risk global recession

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 12:28 PM (penCf)

Check my details post at 14. The Ryan bill had a section increasing the debt limit in it. Of course, the budget bill is non-binding so they will have to have a separate bill that actually authorizes a new limit.

72 "Japan radiation fears prompt firms to move employees"and there's this

73 One of the greatest encounters I has with a WWII vet was surprisingly, out front of a Krogers store on a really windy day.

My kids and I were walking out, when the old man's (front of us) hat flew off his head.

My son ran over and picked it up, looked at it, and handed it back to him saying, 'Thank you for our freedoms sir.'

The man moved really slow, bringing his hand up to his eyes.

My son (thinking he said something wrong) said, 'I'm sorry if I upset you.'

The man asked me if he could hug my son because 'this is the most respect he had ever received from a child.'  He had something like 4 kids and five grand kids and a few great grand kids, (if I remember correctly) and not one of them had ever said thank you to him. NOT ONE.

By this time I'm crying, my kid is confused, this hero is tearing up, and we are all standing in front of a grocery store hugging like family - but we were perfect strangers.

Damn.  Still makes me cry picturing the greatness and deep sadness this man represented.

All service men/women need thanking.  No matter if they served in war time or peacetime.  No matter if they served on foreign soil or our own.  No matter if they think they deserved to be thanked or not.

They also have earned the honor of NEVER being FORGOTTEN.

74 A Gift from the peeps at Maggie's Farm

75
I'm surprised they managed to get an F-100 airworthy. Relatively speaking, they're not terribly complex, but to scrounge up all of the parts and refurbish them must have taken a ton of effort. Getting a flyable airframe is only part of the battle. It's getting stuff like cockpit instruments, sensors, actuators and the like that's the hard part.

I hope they take care of their F-100 and fly it gently because it's an easy plane to crash. Loss of control because of yaw coupling was common with them. Lots of pilots got killed and planes crashed because of it.

I have a book about the remaining F-105s (there are about 100 of them) and a few people have tried to restore one to flyable condition but all have given up. They're just too old and complex to fully restore. It's a shame because they're one of the coolest looking aircraft ever built and have a fascinating combat history.

The only WWII airplanes I ever got a good tour of were a B-17 and a PBY. I was amazed by how small the B-17 is from the inside. The PBY was like being in a whale's belly. The planes were up in Genneseo, NY. I hope they still have them in good condition. My brother got an inside tour of a HE-111. He said you had to be just about a midget to be an aircrew member in one.

I've visited every aviation museum I've had a chance to. If I ever won the lotto I'd probably spend a couple of years touring every one I could find. The people who run them do it as a labor of love and deserve all of the thanks they get.

76 Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 12:46 PM (penCf)

Was in Penn Station picking up a friend.  I passed a guy sitting on the floor leaning against a pillar.  I had passed him but noticed the hat, those hats.  anyway I walked back and stood in front of him and thanked him.  The place was packed and the smile he broke out in was just amazing, a gift for me actually.  He said "little girl, you've made my day".

77 >> I think the ONT has gotten too tough for some to load and everyone is afraid to thread on this thread and make it an open thread by default. Feel free to consider this an open thread. I'm so used to the Hostages where it's like "topic? there is one?" that I didn't even think about putting that in the post. Lemme see if I can update the post from my iPhone.

78 They also have earned the honor of NEVER being FORGOTTEN.

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 12:46 PM (penCf)

Very well said! My grandpa, who passed about 8 years ago was a Staff Sergeant who served in Austria during WWII. He used to tell humorous stories of how they would trade flour and sugar for wine with the locals and such.

The only time he ever talked of battle was (and forgive me for the hazy and/or incorrect details, it's been a long time) of a new group of soldiers who came upon a cache of German weapons and decided to use them. Papaw said that his unit heard the  foreign machine gun chatter and thinking they were Germans, shelled them. He only told the story once.

79

77 Beautiful story momma. Thanks. You raised great children.

80 Posted by: Andy at April 16, 2011 12:56 PM (UBcLf)

I love these posts that really educate me. I just sent the link to this post to my friend who loves military history, like sending him pron..lol

81

77 Beautiful story momma. Thanks. You raised great children.

Posted by: Canadian Infidel at April 16, 2011 12:58 PM (GKQDR)

It has nothing to do with me...God gave me perfection (my kids) as their starting point

82 Feel free to consider this an open thread. I'm so used to the Hostages where it's like "topic? there is one?" that I didn't even think about putting that in the post. Lemme see if I can update the post from my iPhone. Posted by: Andy at April 16, 2011 12:56 PM (UBcLf) The Hostages Blog has two big things going for them, and they were noticeably absent this week.

83 'Irvine 11' plead not guilty to misdemeanor charges of disrupting an Israeli ambassador's campus speech

prosecutors filed a motion at the hearing to release grand jury transcripts from their investigation and handed out copies of court filings they said illustrated point by point how the students — "the Irvine 11" — conspired to disrupt Ambassador Michael Oren's speech at UC Irvine on Feb. 8, 2010, then tried to cover it up.
...


"This isn't about the war on Gaza, it's about democracy here," said defense attorney Jacqueline Goodman. "It was a principled protest by top students.Â… They're fighting for all of us."

"We need more students like this," added defense attorney Dan Stormer.

The defense claims the students acted independently. But a motion from prosecutors released Friday suggests the disruption was organized by UC Irvine's Muslim Student Union, which is on probation because of the incident.

According to an email distributed to the school's Muslim Student Union board with minutes from a meeting days before the protest, the students considered Oren's appearance to be "sending [the] message that this is an Israeli campus again" and they would conduct a "Chicago-style" protest to "disrupt the whole event" and "shut down with individual disruption."

84 OT-   LINK

The lib counterprotest was supposed to be held on the other side of the Capitol building, but rules and laws are for other people.

AP reports from Madison:

Labor protesters surround tea party at Palin rally

Except:

Hundreds of pro-union labor supporters are surrounding smaller groups of tea party members waiting for former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to appear outside the Wisconsin Capitol.

85  It's got to cost a whole, whole bunch to tank those things up with Jet A and fly them around these days. 

A lot of those '50s and '60s jets need serious acreage, some -105 units had a hard time operating out of 10000 feet of runway.  

86 If you are looking for a great organization that honors our Heroes, please check out Honor Flight Network.


Every story I hear brings me to tears. 

87

It has nothing to do with me...God gave me perfection (my kids) as their starting point

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 01:02 PM (penCf)

_{If you really think that it had nothing to do with you, maybe you missed an important conversation somewhere along the line.}

88 I built a model of an Avenger a few years ago. 

89 >> The Hostages Blog has two big things going for them, and they were noticeably absent this week. wiserbud and lauraw turned the most anticipated events of the week into some kind of performance art piece. That NEA grant must've finally come through.

90 Obama meets young climate activists
Plus:

;">If you haven't seen this video yet, please do.  This is what we are up against:

This story aired on BBC Night News.

A reporter goes to an environmental activist conference and finds Congressmen, the head of the EPA, and Obama's men giving speeches on behalf of Obama. They are caught on tape actively using, promoting, and leading these activists. They are teaching them how to resist arrest, what the best tactics are, and about civil disobedience.



The good stuff starts at about 3:50 when he finally gets to the conference.

91 They are teaching them how to resist arrest, what the best tactics are, and about civil disobedience.

Resisting arrest is a felony. Teaching someone to resist arrest is probably a felony as well if the one being taught actually commits the crime. But given our DOJ the likelihood of it being prosecuted is NIL. .

92

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 01:22 PM (penCf)

E-mail this to Anthony Watts. He'll have a field day with it.

93 The B-24 was a real game changer in terms of military aviation. Although the controls surfaces were manual almost everything else was driven either hydraulically or electrically. That was a milestone. They were also the first plane where flight crews were actually trained as a crew, as if on a ship, rather than people with different positions. The controls were very heavy and it took lots of physical effort to fly one.

I've read tons of books about WWII aviation and one of the craziest stories I ever read was about a B-24. I can't remember if it was from flak or fighters, but one B-24 was getting mauled on a bombing run and the tail gunner thought his time was up. Next thing he knew, he was waking up in the tail of his B-24 sans the rest of the plane. The tail had been blown off of the plane and glided down over 10,000 feet to gently land in a field. It was a first hand story. The tail gunner said he had heard that the same thing had once happened to a B-17.

94

E-mail this to Anthony Watts. He'll have a field day with it.

Posted by: ErikW at April 16, 2011 01:28 PM (5DgJl)

Who is Anthony Watts?  (I'm really ignorant when it comes to people in the know)  I sent it everywhere, (I even posted it on WZ when I was posting/blogging there) and no one cared.  I thought it was a BFD.  I still do. 

Everything they said they were going to do they have done, are doing or trying to do.

I think every American needs to see the video.  I can't stress that enough.

It leaves you a little scared and really pissed off.

Remember all those protesters?  I'm willing to bet most of them were at this conference!

95

Posted by: Vic at April 16, 2011 01:27 PM (M9Ie6)

Just curious: When the "non-violent" Marxist douchebags who get arrested and dragged into the paddy wagon at the flavor-of-the-day protest, why are they always released so quickly?

I don't shit about law.

96 The union protestors are out in force, doing their best to drown out the Tea Party speakers in Madison, WI

Livestream LINK

Wow.  Palin still to come as of this posting.

97

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 01:33 PM (penCf)

Oops sorry, momma. http://wattsupwiththat.com/

98

I don't shit about law.

Posted by: ErikW at April 16, 2011 01:33 PM (5DgJl)

I don't know shit about law.

Strangely, the former still makes sense to me.

99 Fox hasn't mentioned the WI rally in the last 20 minutes or so.  I don't think it's on their radar.

100 Afternoon, all.

Have any of you ever visited the Mighty Eighth Air Force Museum in Savannah?  It's amazing.  Sadly, many of the volunteers who've worked there over the years (former Mighty Eight pilots) are dying off.

And prayers for all the tornado victims yesterday and last night.  That crap appears to be heading our way.

101 why are they always released so quickly?

I don't shit about law.

I'm not a lawyer but you don't have to be to know that one. They are released because the admin in most cities don't prosecute them even when they destroy private or public property.

Why don't they prosecute? Well most large cities are run by leftists who agree with the Marxist protestors.

102 Our rally here in Savannah yesterday angered me and broke my heart.  One of the smallest turnouts ever.  Mostly tourists (at least they were very enthusiastic). 

Did enjoy the one Obamabot who tried to shout down our speakers by yelling, "BUSH!!!11111!!!!!" every few minutes. 

103 wiserbud and lauraw turned the most anticipated events of the week into some kind of performance art piece. That NEA grant must've finally come through. Posted by: Andy at April 16, 2011 01:20 PM (UBcLf) Still no excuse.

104

Why don't they prosecute? Well most large cities are run by leftists who agree with the Marxist protestors.

Posted by: Vic at April 16, 2011 01:40 PM (M9Ie6)

Yeah, I should have known that.

105

Americans spent 11% of retail expenditure on gasoline in March, per Fox.

$1 of every 9.

106 Speaking of TEA parties, we had about 800 in Providence, RI. Smallest of the three tax day rallies by far.

107

Americans spent 11% of retail expenditure on gasoline in March, per Fox.

$1 of every 9.

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 01:44 PM (+gfwN)

I'm spending closer to 1 of 3.

"But, but if we drill for oil, we won't see it come to market for ten years!!1!1"

Yeah, you cocksuckers said that ten years ago. And it's closer to four years, BTW.

108 The union protestors are out in force, doing their best to drown out the Tea Party speakers in Madison, WI

Livestream LINK

Wow. Palin still to come as of this posting.

Posted by: mrp at April 16, 2011 01:33 PM (HjPtV)

Linky no worky, at least the first time I tried it.  Right Scoop is streaming it too, and it's pretty good: 

http://bitly.com/hWXXbC

109 110

Americans spent 11% of retail expenditure on gasoline in March, per Fox.

$1 of every 9.

What will the percentage be in a few short months?

110 Is demand for oil big worldwide at the moment?  I can't figure out why we'd be at $4 in April, even considering the stupidity of the president.

111 Americans spent 11% of retail expenditure on gasoline in March, per Fox.

We're running at about 15% right now. 

112 Yeah, I have an extra http.  I like your link better

113 Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 12:46 PM (penCf) wonderful story, momma. I have 2 marines and a soldier - all served in Iraq. They are always surprised when someone thanks them. It doesn't happen often enough. Kudos to you - you are raising wonderful children.

114 111 Speaking of TEA parties, we had about 800 in Providence, RI. Smallest of the three tax day rallies by far.

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 01:45 PM (+gfwN)

Same here.  I loved a NYC tourist who approached us as we were setting up and asked to volunteer.  She bought a committee t-shirt and worked all afternoon signing people up and collecting donations.  Said when she told a close friend her intentions at a cocktail party before she came down, the "friend" was furious.  Must be truly lonely to be a conservative in Manhattan.

115 CEO of Gulf Oil was on Fox this week predicting gas at $5.00/gal. by Memorial Day.  Makes me feel all hopey-changey.

116 95 The good stuff starts at about 3:50 when he finally gets to the conference.
_______

You didn't think "raising the price of fossil fuel will make this [electric] car more affordable" was good stuff?

How the hell does raising fossil fuel prices make an electric car more affordable? All it does is make everything unaffordable; the electric car remains unaffordable.

117 LOL, I was searching the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999 to see if any of them were prosecuted. Not only were they not prosecuted by Seattle wound up paying them money in a "settlement" for arresting them and violating their "rights".

The stupid is epic here.

118 Comments are down?  Aren't we on strike like the HuffPo guys?

Pay to Play, valu rite or bacon!

Let the morons unite against the hated oppressor Ace!

No free comments, no justice, or something.

119

wow,  only 124 comments in 8 hours?

120

How is the showing at Tea Party/Palin/ Breitbart rally going in Wisconisn?

 Just in case nobody asked.

121 I dunno.  I'm out of obnoxious things today.

122 CEO of Gulf Oil was on Fox this week predicting gas at $5.00/gal. by Memorial Day.  Makes me feel all hopey-changey.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 16, 2011 01:57 PM (UOM4

I was doing some math in my head and I figured that for every 40 hours I work, about 10 hours go to gas for getting to and from work. I was incorrect on the 1 to 3 ratio.

HOWEVER, if gas does go to $5 I might need to spend the night sleeping in my truck at work a 2 or 3 nights a week to offset the increased fuel expenditure. That will suck.

123 I don't shit about law.

124

My father was a B-24 pilot, and I drove him across the state to Albany once so the historians could videotape him telling his story. They had (have?) a program in NY to record the stories of WWII veterans in this way. On another trip we went out there for the dedication of NY's WWII Memorial, where we got to go to some sort of special reception for the WWII veterans there. I got to meet a MOH recipient, and a Tuskeegee airman (those guys has protected my father a number of times). Gov. Pataki awarded my father a NY medal (which I hadn't known existed, but you could apply and get one if you had the right miltary credentials). My father was one of the ones getting medals that day because they wanted people from all over the state, plus he had an interesting story.

He had lost two B-24s (a J and an L, I think) to flak, gone MIA both times, but got home with his entire crew without being captured. The first time he had managed to get just across the front line, and just over a mountain ridge, before bailing out from 500FT altitude. He told me he pulled his cord as he jumped out the bomb bay, because they had never taught them how to use a chute (so he didn't know that was a good way to get your chute caught on something inside the plane). The Romanians greeted his crew as heros, and the Russians arranged to get them home.

His second adventure started with less drama. They abandoned ship at a time more of their choosing (they knew it wouldn't make it back, but it wasn't crashing just yet), in an area of Bosnia known to have friendly partisans (Tito's people). He let other crews go first when planes came to extract them, only to have the airfield close for the winter. Then he ended up having to walk 100 miles through snow, just about starving in the process, to get out. He saved his parachute this time, which served as a blanket (a lousy one) and, later, as raw material for his fiance's wedding gown.

Both times lost, he was bombing a synthetic oil factory. These days nobody seems to realize that the same industrial process the Nazis used could be used (economically, at this point) to make the US energy-independent.

125 #130

He saved his parachute this time, which served as a blanket (a lousy one) and, later, as raw material for his fiance's wedding gown.


Now that is fucking cool!  Your mother?

126

#130

Wonderful story! I'm impressed about saving the parachute, (they were made of silk in those days), for a wedding dress.

When I was a kid in So Cal, there was a closed down military surplus store, with a huge back lot with literally tons of interesting stuff, including old wwII parachutes. Sadly, I wasn't bright enough to snag any, and the place eventually burned down, and everything that was left was, I assume, hauled off to the dump.

127 Awesome stuff. I'm a Massachusetts guy too.

128 Is it a "bleg" to ask you people to be more entertaining?  I'm stuck dog-sitting.  My shoe is in the washing machine on account of the gigantic turd I stepped in.  WTF?

129 No comment

130
#134

I just put on some black face, and sang Old Man River. It was quite entertaining.

You're Welcome.

131 Is it a "bleg" to ask you people to be more entertaining?  I'm stuck dog-sitting.  My shoe is in the washing machine on account of the gigantic turd I stepped in.  WTF?

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 02:20 PM (+gfwN)

Damn, and I thought my Saturday sucks.

132 I'm nursing a banged-up knee.  And my funny bone is out of whack. 

Where everybody at?

133

wow,  only 124 comments in 8 hours?

Posted by: willow at April 16, 2011 02:06 PM (h+qn

Last night's ONT was dead by 2:30. Between all of the DOOM and budget bitching threads lately I can see why commenting has been falling off lately.

134 George McGovern, you know, was a B-24 pilot. He had a hung-up bomb like Moose tells of at 46, and lost it into an Austrian farmhouse. He felt guilty for decades (possibly expressing it in political terms), until finally he met the farmer, who told him no one was hurt and he was OK with it.

How one might wish he'd met that farmer years earlier. Then again, he did train in Kansas -- at Liberal Field. 

135 The good stuff starts at about 3:50 when he finally gets to the conference.

The nihilistic and suicidal electorate? - there's part of it. One could really wonder if we are genetically programmed to make decisions that favor failure and death once we reach a certain level of population or technology...

136

I'm in Massachuetts, at a palacial estate populated by three dogs and a cat, me, and my one shoe.

It's going to rain later on.  Maybe the Red Sox will get rained out.  Considering their season record, I will count that as a win.

137

#79 Ed Anger

USAF has been blocking for years Collins Foundation from acquiring an F-105.  Since the Ultra Hog/Lead Sled/Thud was never sold overseas, only the USAF can release one.  There is Congressional legislation telling the USAF to turn a -105 over, they still haven't.  USAF arguments do not really hold water when three F-104s are flying out of Titusville and Collings Foundation has been flying an F-4 for years without incident.

As for this F-100F, ex Thunderbird 9, I am trying to run down its history.  I am betting it's a former MAP bird that was listed for sale overseas and brought back. 

Another thing that works against seeing many F-100s or F-105s in the air is how hard both birds were worked.  When the last ANG F-100 went to the boneyard, many had over 5,000 flight hours and their wing boxes rebuilt twice.  F-105s also have high flight hours plus the horrible attrition the Thuds suffered over Viet Nam.

As for Colonel Bud Day, go read his book American Patriot.

138

Oh, speaking of climate change nonsense, I am in the process of writing a paper following the cap and trade legislation from 2009.  My professor was sore at me that my conclusion was that the bill failed because it was based on nonsense and too many senators were too scared to vote on yet another big-government scam.

I wrote it nicer and laid out the science, economics and likely effects of the bill.  Which wasn't good, because he's a big fan of the religion of climate change.

139 From what I understand about half the inventory of 105s were lost in Vietnam before we switched over to the F-4.

140

Where everybody at?

In Ohio getting wasted. I just found out that I don't get a scheduled day off.

Ever.

Evidently, I'm doing such a damned fine job, I'm needed every day to be in the shop at 5:30am.

Every. Fucking. Day.

At least I'm getting overtime.

141 138 I'm nursing a banged-up knee.  And my funny bone is out of whack. 
Where everybody at?
Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 16, 2011 02:25 PM (UOM4


Jane this is for your funny bone not your knee, so don't try this at home.

142 Well, I'm gonna go prop my knee up and ice it for a bit. 

Knee + trailer hitch = boo-boo.

143 Breitbart speaking right now

144

It's going to rain later on.  Maybe the Red Sox will get rained out.  Considering their season record, I will count that as a win.

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 02:27 PM (+gfwN)

They're ahead 4-1 top of the 4th.

145 Breitbart is speaking at wisconisn rally,  streaming through HA@

146 Cote de Pablo.  That's where I'm going for my next vacation:  to Cote de Pablo.

147 Knee + trailer hitch = boo-boo.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 16, 2011 02:32 PM (UOM4

OW! I've done that. Banged up my shin pretty good.

148

And for my Mass boozehounds

Patriots Day awesomeness around the corner

Get all patriotic, jingoistic and drunk. Bars open early, cops dont care. Red Sox game at 11:00 AM. Boston Marathon and the throngs down Boylston. Celts and Bruins playoffs.. one giant fucking pub crawl.

149 Brietbart tells 'em "Go to Hell! Go to Hell!"

Right on, right on, right on!

150 Off Topic:  Whoever it was that linked the Razor 10/22 receiver, thanks! It'd be fun to build one up from scratch, and doesn't appear that it would be very expensive either.

151 One thread today, huh? Well here's something amusing to read: http://tinyurl.com/3jc3qtm Tease: It includes a mention of Iowahawk.

152 My professor was sore at me that my conclusion was that the bill failed because it was based on nonsense and too many senators were too scared to vote on yet another big-government scam.

He is sore, but even he should realize it's the truth. 

I wrote it nicer and laid out the science, economics and likely effects of the bill.  Which wasn't good, because he's a big fan of the religion of climate change.

You can't reason somebody out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.  At least you were true to yourself (and to the science).  In the end, that matters much more than a professor's praise.  I just hope your grade didn't suffer much. 

153

Breitbary telling left to go to hell. that they are practicing class warfare not american  at all.. Sarah Palin speaking next 

 

154

CNN had a report on Cuba's celebrating the Bay of Pigs. They also talked about an economic summit going on there and all of the proposed reforms for the Cuban people.

To say it was glowing would be an understatement.

But it's CNN. Any collectivist, backwards group is always beautiful. Except America when Republicans are in charge. Then we suck. But not now because of the lighthealer.

155 Batter up!

156

demagogue:

a person, especially an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people.   (in ancient times) a leader of the people.   to treat or manipulate (a political issue) in the manner of a demagogue; obscure or distort with emotionalism, prejudice, etc.   to speak or act like a demagogue.   Origin:
1640¨C50; < Greek d¨¥mag¨­g¨®s  a leader of the people, popular leader, equivalent to d¨ºm ( os ) people + ag¨­g¨®s  leading, guiding; see -agogue

157 Walker understand states need to be solven to be sovereign . Union boss's don't  tell you this. etc

158

I just hope your grade didn't suffer much. 

No, it never does.  I only take classes with professors who can disagree without being disagreeable.  My GPA is 3.67, and that's without really sweating.  After all, it's political science, not something real or valuable.

159 I would consider myself one of least-intelligent and least-articulate morons.  But, God, it's only political science.

160

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 02:41 PM (+gfwN)

Don't know if you saw previous comment but Sox are on now.

161

Breitbary telling left to go to hell. that they are practicing class warfare not american at all.. Sarah Palin speaking next

Posted by: willow at April 16, 2011 02:37 PM (h+qn

Not only did Breitbart say, "Go to hell,"  a couple of times, Palin just told the GOP they need to learn to "Fight like a girl!"

162

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 02:38 PM (+gfwN)

Thank you! I always wondered what it really meant but was too lazy to look it up.

BTW, if y'all are bored, research silk cultivation. It's pretty interesting, in a bored, drunken Saturday way.

163 162

demagogue:

Ooooh!  I see, and all this time I thought they were saying demigod...    Zzzzzzzz

164

Just a few weeks ago, I got to go inside the B-25 of the Historic Flight Foundation at Paine Field in Everett, Washington (location of the Boeing main widebody plant).  Major impression - small!  You automatically think of bombers as being large aircraft, but the interior of the B-25 was incredibly cramped and packed with equipment.  The thought of hours-long missions, such as the Tokyo raid, flown in such a plane was chilling.

OT - heard on NPR this morning from an NYT reporter that Kadaffy is using cluster bombs on civilians.  It is perfectly believable, but I found it strange how the reporter stated this accusation as fact, when in the past it seems as though NYT reporters always treated any reports of our enemy's villanous behavior as allegations... and any of their accusations against our forces as fact!

Could it be that something is different now?  I wonder what it could be?

And just as it would be a really convenient out for Obama if the US was to be "forced" to re-engage to get rid of Kadaffy - out come the cluster bombs, to be reported immediately and uncritically by the NYT.

165 Must be truly lonely to be a conservative in Manhattan.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 16, 2011 01:56 PM (UOM4

I think there's like three of them.

166 164

  I only take classes with professors who can disagree without being disagreeable.  My GPA is 3.67, and that's without really sweating.  After all, it's political science, not something real or valuable.

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 02:41 PM (+gfwN)

Fuck you. I triple majored in political science, history and legal studies at commie-tastic UMass Amherst and graduated with honors.

It may not be real or valuable in the real world, and it may keep you indebted for life, and it may lead to a crappy career in the law, but it helps make you look awesome in the conservative blogosphere.

 

167 165 I would consider myself one of least-intelligent and least-articulate morons. 

Don't you dare take that title from me;  That designation is mine!    Seriously, humility is good, but don't denigrate yourself like that.  Whenever you think like that, remember Golda Meir's quote  "Don't be humble, you're not that great".

I only take classes with professors who can disagree without being disagreeable.

Good stratagem.  And how fortunate that there are some lib poly-sci professors that still can act reasonably. 

168

Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at April 16, 2011 02:45 PM (6IReR)

Heh, I love the image that your handle links to. Kudos.

169 Eh.  I'm kind of only in school to avoid having to face the prospect of being unemployable.  I don't see how that would change if I got a BA or BS.  Everybody has a BA or a BS.  I may go teach at a private or parochial school for a while.  But I'd really like to work for a congressweasel.

170

Speaking of Fox, they're talking about Katie Couric and what's wrong with network evening news.

WHO ThE FUCK CARES?  really?  Everyone who watches it is over 80 years old and senile.

171 RushBabe, and just told Obama, game on.  laughing.

172 70 OT

Obama: Raise debt ceiling or risk global recession

Posted by: momma at April 16, 2011 12:28 PM (penCf)

Message to John Boehner; good reason to tell Obama to go fuck himself.

Or are you gonna lie and cry again.  Freaking baby

173

Whenever you think like that, remember Golda Meir's quote  "Don't be humble, you're not that great".

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 16, 2011 02:48 PM (9hSKh)

I've never understood that. I use self-deprecating humor all the time because I resent anyone who is cocky and blows themselves out of proportion.

Or am I misunderstanding the core meaning of the statement?

174

I was right, this F-100F came from a MAP country.  It is a former Danish Air Force bird.

Pictures of the freshly painted plane along with pics of Day in the front seat.  And Joe Engle posing with the bird.

http://tinyurl.com/3whquqc

175 #180 Cockiness is irritating. All these people acting like they are as great as I am.

176 So was that the official campaign announcement or just the precursor?

177 Oh man and BACON lovers. You have to try this. It's like a slice of Heaven. Had some today and it has to be the best ever. I am divesting my shares in GM to buy more.

178 Everyone either loves bacon or is mentally ill.

179 184 Everyone either loves bacon or is mentally ill.

Posted by: Truman North at April 16, 2011 03:03 PM (+gfwN)

Bacon. It's what separates us from the enemy.

180 Must've been one hell of a hobo hunt last night.

181

I've never understood that. I use self-deprecating humor all the time because I resent anyone who is cocky and blows themselves out of proportion.

Your point is valid.  I see that quote more for those good people who err too much on the side of humility (thus not for pols and such).   A healthy, but small ego is best. 

182 #185, Marcus - Bacon and booze.

183 #180 Cockiness is irritating.
All these people acting like they are as great as I am.

Posted by: CAC at April 16, 2011 03:01 PM (Gr1V1)

Jeez, Anna was just offering good information, you didn't have to be a dick about it.

 

_{I keed!!!}

184 A healthy, but small ego is best. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 16, 2011 03:07 PM (9hSKh)

Agreed. There is a fine line between confidence and cockiness.

185 Time for these guys to work on an F14 Tomcat. I'd LOVE to see that thing making the Grumman Cats circle.

186 Palin slammed the GOP Establishment almost as hard as Obama during her Madison speech.

"Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic."

"Learn to fight like a girl."

187

so is that Cacerine the great?

 

188 #193 Nice Pillows.

189 soft and downy.

190

#79 Ed Anger

USAF has been blocking for years Collins Foundation from acquiring an F-105.  Since the Ultra Hog/Lead Sled/Thud was never sold overseas, only the USAF can release one.

There are five F-105 airframes in Europe, one in Japan and one in Mexico. I don't know if any are in restorable shape, however. Most of the old birds do have very high flight hours -- their design limit was 5,000 but several achieved over 6,000.

A total of 833 F-105s of all types were produced. As per Wiki: A total of 382 F-105s were lost in Southeast Asia, 320 of those in combat—most to enemy ground fire. Of the 610 single-seat F-105Ds built, 283 were shot down and 52 lost operationally. Of the 143 F-105F/G two-seaters, 37 were shot down and 10 lost operationally (one "Ryan's Raiders" night interdiction aircraft and one Combat Martin jammer without a back-seat WSO were lost in combat, the other 45 losses were Wild Weasel aircraft).

The book I have about the surviving F-105s was written by W. Howard Plunkett who spent 20 years as an aircraft maintenance officer, two of which for the F-105. He seems to think restoring an F-105 to flyable condition is impossible.

191

131 Now that is fucking cool!  Your mother?

Yep. She said the material wasn't the greatest to work with, but everything was in short supply at that time. They talk about 'chutes being made of "silk", but I think it was more like nylon. They made a christening gown out of it, too, but I think I was stiffed, due to being a twin.

She said that after he went down the first time, she asked him about his parachute, which apparently he had just left there in the Transylvanian countryside. She had heard about other girls using it for wedding gowns (although I haven't actually heard of another case since), and complained about it. One could joke that he had to get shot down again, to make his fiance happy!

One of their wedding pictures shows a huge crowd of people greeting them as they emerged from the church. I asked my mother who all those people were, after hearing that only my father's immediate family could make it (he was from out-of-state - they had met at one of his training stops), and she said that it was just people who had read the whole parachute story thing in the newspaper.

192

#196

There are approximately 100 F-105s scattered about the world.  10 of them are parked at Lackland AFB and used by Security Forces to train new SFs for flightline security.  There is one F-105G that is on loan from the USAF to a Seattle musuem funded by Microsoft's Allen. 

Collings Foundation has done a survey of the airframes and finds its doable and there are enough spares, if allowed to acquire the Lackland AFB 10, to keep one F-105 flying for years.  Medal of Honor winner Leo Thorness wants to see a Thud flying.  So does Ed Rasimus who flew 100 missions in the Thud and then another 100 missions in the F-4.

193 79, Ed-  I got an inside tour of the same He-111 at the Albany, NY airport.  Unfortunately, that plane, which was the last flying He-111, crashed in Wyoming back in 2003, killing the pilot and passenger. 
I've also been in the Collings B-17 and B-24.  They also seemed small and cramped inside, but definitely not as small as the He-111.  Generally, every year we get one of the surviving B-17s, either at Albany or at the air museum at Schenectady.

194
Time for these guys to work on an F14 Tomcat. I'd LOVE to see that thing making the Grumman Cats circle.

Posted by: Erick Brockway at April 16, 2011 03:12 PM (hawLk)

That would be awesome, especially with one that has the newer engine. The ones with the original engines were prone to compressor stalls and only half the bird they were capable of being.

Except for a few in museums, though, I think they dumped the rest overboard to make fake reefs. Same thing with the old A-6 Intruders.

195 All the F-14s that were not sent to musuems were literally shredded to keep any spare parts from going to Iran.  A horrible end to a great plane.

196

Collings Foundation has done a survey of the airframes and finds its doable and there are enough spares, if allowed to acquire the Lackland AFB 10, to keep one F-105 flying for years.  Medal of Honor winner Leo Thorness wants to see a Thud flying.  So does Ed Rasimus who flew 100 missions in the Thud and then another 100 missions in the F-4.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 16, 2011 03:35 PM (Z5Eow)

Thanks for the excellent news! I didn't know that. I knew about the 10 used for security training. They sound like good candidates for restoring one into flyable condition.

Did you know the F-105 has a number of low level radioactive panels? Most museums have replaced them with fiberglass replicas because they tend to deteriorate without regular maintenance.

197 201 All the F-14s that were not sent to musuems were literally shredded to keep any spare parts from going to Iran. A horrible end to a great plane.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 16, 2011 03:43 PM (Z5Eow)

I just stopped by to say AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

People who destroy beautiful things suck.

198
All the F-14s that were not sent to musuems were literally shredded to keep any spare parts from going to Iran.  A horrible end to a great plane.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 16, 2011 03:43 PM (Z5Eow)

You're right. I had forgotten all about that.

199

Ed, did not know of the low-level radioactive panels.  Odd that, why even have them?  I have traded comments with Rasimus about the quest for an F-105.  He thinks the biggest problem will be finding a useable engine for the project.

F-14s treated like shredded wheat is something that sticks in the mind.  Just horrible.

200 And before I forget, Lackland is home to another F-105 Thunderchief.  One of the prototype RF-105Bs JF-1.

201

You, know, I should say some more about the crew & experience of the B-24 guys.

First, there were 10 on a plane: six enlisted, and 4 officers. Seems like everybody on board had been in flight school, where most guys "washed out". By some accounts, however, navigators "washed out" by being too good. My father spoke extremely highly of his navigator, who managed to get them in just the right spot dispite cloud cover that offered no landmarks. The navigator had to be sharp, and not make any mistakes - depite the crappy "office" he had to work in, or you could end up in really big trouble.

Second, about a bombing run. My father didn't talk about this part (maybe repressing such memories made it possible to sleep at night), but other acoounts describe it well. On his major targets, they would send over a dozen bomb groups, each of which was sending 40-50 bombers. So there would be a seemingly endless column of these planes, each with ten 500-lb bombs to "unload". Thousands of airmen overhead on a single mission. The world had never seen anything like, nor will it again.

The final approach had to be a nice, straight line, making them "ducks in a row" for anti-air guns. The idea was for them to coordinate in their bomb-dropping, to increase the odds of hitting what they were after. So the way I picture it, for several minutes (that seem like an eternity, for sure) you are essentially driving though a minefield in the air. Except with a regular minefield things don't blow up from every single angle (above and below), and there is no place to hide. The explosions that are everywhere also disturb the air, so the ride gets pretty bumpy, too.

Before they came up with the B-29, and the atomic bomb, sending a heavy bomber group was the worst thing you could do to your enemy.

Oh, and ol' dad mentioned that for missions involving B-17s, the B-17s had to launch first. He said that those planes were 10-15mph slower, and so the B-24s could catch up. It think they also couldn't carry quite as much, and flew a bit lower. His 15th AAF had three wings of B-24s, and only one of B-17s. 21 BGs altogether, IIRC.

202 thanks for sharing.  I love the fact there are some aviatin' morons in here.  There's a few of those (non-flying) F-4's on display at the museum at the KSCH airport in upstate NY.

203 The F-105 speed brake actuator covers (and a few other panels IIRC) were made of a magnesium-thorium alloy.

From Wiki: Thorium is a component of the magnesium alloy called Mag-Thor, used in aircraft engines and imparting high strength and creep resistance at elevated temperatures. Thoriated magnesium was used to build the CIM-10 Bomarc missile, although concerns about radioactivity have resulted in several missiles being removed from public display.

It's really a low level non-hazard but you know how people freak out about all things radioactive.

204 A must read from a couple of years ago. The plane in question belonged to Collings... http://sippicancottage.blogspot.com/2009/03/my-father-asks-for-nothing.html

205 I wonder if this is the foundation that came to the jersey shore last year. That was cool, they had a B-17, a P-51 two seater  and a B-25. Crawling through that B-17 was hairy, you wonder how anybody actually managed to bail out of those things.

206 209.  I know.  Pooblic Edumacation has made radiation akin to Grendel.  No matter how small the hazard.  Scare people back into caves is what they are doing.  Make them more biddable to being controlled.

207 I wonder how many of those worry-worts know that TIG welding uses thorium welding rods.

208 On my one trip to Wright-Patterson I missed their B-58. That was one of the coolest looking airplanes ever manufactured. If I ever again get near one again I'm making the detour so I can see it.

209 Well-descibed, Opti. The B-17 had only about half the bomb load of a 24, and IIRC the Lancaster outcarried them both. The 17 was a much earlier design concept, laid out for long patrol missions over water and  celestial navigation with a sextant through an open top hatch. It was a quirk that they were pressed into the strategic role. Unloaded, they fly real easy. Like many of their crews, they got a lot of tail.

The wick of Coleman camp lanterns used to have a little bit of thorium in the fabric. Many bricks were shat when that came out.

210 Posted by: Optimizer at April 16, 2011 03:27 PM


That's a great story, and very cool family history.

211 Glad to know Ace is posting Democratic ads on his site. Tim Kaine is a tool, and Virginia would do better (gulp) with George "Macaca" Allen as the Commonwealth's senator. Hey, Ace--Kaine. Ad on your site. Significant fail.

212

Just watched a little of WW 2 in HD on the history channel, it was about the air war.  Pretty epic stuff. What a heartbreaking story of the gunner trapped in the belly turret and no way to get him out and no way to get the landing gear down.  Also the guy who got his arm blown off, and the crews decision to parachute him down to the Germans and hope he got medical aid as he was going to bleed to death if he stayed on board... those are stories that haunted those guys for the rest of their lives.

213 I saw the Collings Foundation B-24 and B-17 a few years ago with my dad, who was a B-17 bombardier in the Mighty Eighth. They were both amazing aircraft - the B-24 was somewhat roomier inside. My dad also had to deal with a hung-up bomb once. He kept his chute on, and one of the straps got looped around a bomb fin without him noticing. Fortunately another crewman was watching through a window into the bomb bay, and managed to get Dad's attention. Dad moved over to the window (which unhooked him from the bomb), and the other man just waved OK. So Dad went back, got the bomb off, and then went "inside". Then the other man told him why he'd been signaling.

214 Sweet! I'm from Stow MA!

215 BTW, the paint scheme on that B-24 is "The Dragon and His Tail", very, very naughty and in our disgustingly-PC-world, NSFW.

Many of my fellow churchmates are former military pilots. One flew TBM's at the very end of WWII and went on to fly others off the flight deck of a carrier. Another that just passed away a month or so ago was a B-47 pilot ( I didn't find that out until his funeral :-( ) and we have a few Vietnam-era jet jockeys. I love each and every one of them as a brother, although I was either too young or poor visioned to serve (an eternal regret, even if I would have served under Jimmuh Effin' Carter. My best friend did and he is a better man than me for doing so.)

216 I live near a former Naval Air Station (largely closed now). They used to have weekend air shows there every year and I'd usually go one day and watch the planes from my front yard the other. The Blue Angels flew directly over my house numerous times. One year, the day before the show started, I was driving on the on-ramp of the turnpike when I saw a B-24 on its landing approach. I damn near drove off the road watching it.

217 A B-24 LIBORATOR one of WW IIs big time bombers like the B-17 FLYING FORTRESS made evern better when the P-51 was escorting them into germany all the way

218

Ed Anger, posted this video on my blog and got a reply from Ed Rasimus on the F-105 situation.

"Apparently all existing airframes of F-105s, whether on sticks or gate guards or in museums, are the property of Nat'l Museum of the USAF in Dayton and only out "on loan". Some disagreements about whether or not NMUSAF is obstructing, but we will be sitting with former director, MGen Metcalf and current director LtGen Hoover in three weeks at the River Rat reunion to twist some arms. A couple of hundred former F-105 drivers can command a bit of publicity!" Ed Rasimus, author of When Thunder Rolled, Palace Cobra, and co-author with Christina Olds of Fighther Pilot.

219 Its good to know that ED ANGERS still around