1 first with the doom

2 The petulant wannabe God-King speaks:

Obama: It's time for companies to 'step up' and hire more - CBS News via Reuters.

3 i knew i should have been a lifeguard......

4 yeah, Romney is a gone-er.  Romney care has already tanked him.  he is being stubborn or short-sighted about remaining in race.

5 Posted earlier

Representative of CA financial situation

Real DOOM kitty for Monty

They're hanging on the thorny edge of DOOM!

6

RE: the sidebar link about prices at the pump skyrocketing, I can attest to it (as I'm sure we all can.)  When I gassed up yesterday, the cost was $3.91/gallon here in Concord, NH.  This morning when I passed the same gas station, it was $3.98.

 

7 thank God

8 out! out! damn sock!

9 Vic: I love that cat pic! I'm going to use it in a future DOOM thread!

10 Thanks, I thought it fit doom every well.

11 The unborn can't vote or protest - so there is no danger in taxing them to death. 

12 i use diesel...it's wierd...chevron and shell have it at 4.19 a gallon.....the luv's on the reservation has it for 3.91...the reservation is always cheaper but i've never seen it for that much cheaper......

13

Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy

14 ben, no....but i'll be buying some today!

15 Can't stand the doom first thing.  Just. Cant. Do. It.

16 Mitt "I like mandates!" Romney is a con man. Go ahead, vote for him, sucker.

17

RE: the sidebar link about prices at the pump skyrocketing, I can attest to it (as I'm sure we all can.)  When I gassed up yesterday, the cost was $3.91/gallon here in Concord, NH.  This morning when I passed the same gas station, it was $3.98.

Yeah, I'm not claiming any conspiracy theories here, and I know that local gas stations that are independently owned pay a certain price when they fill up their reserve tanks and cannot sell below that price(and still profit).

However the knife doesn't seem to cut both ways.

If crude goes up 10 dollars in one day, the gas stations immediately raise prices to reflect that, but if it goes down 10 dollars in one day as it did a few days ago, the gas prices don't drop at the same rate they went up.

18 13: other than it was pretty high and has always been a lot more volatile than gold? No idea. If it gets down to $25 I might buy some more to add to what I bought last year, but over $40 --no effing way.

19

I have an honest question- how is a college degree a waste of time when having a degree is the primary screen for most jobs and an absolute requirement for a management position?  I know i know, the world needs plumbers, car mechanics and such- but lets face it most women don't want to do those types of jobs (I don't anyway).  I am not trolling, just want some opinions from the peeps.

20

ben, no....but i'll be buying some today!

yeah, i am wading into the silver ownership as well.

It's gone from 40 to almost 30 in 2 or so days

21 "A caring and kind society cares for the weak and elderly and helpless" No. Caring and kind people care for the weak and elderly and helpless.

22 Our daily missive of doom is lacking any reference to the treasury auction TODAY which I understand will put us over the so called debt limit.  So they are not even going to pay lip service to the limit, or wait for it to be raised.

23 Would it be politically realistic to partially raid the pensions of unionized workers -- including current retirees -- through draconian taxes on their benefits?  I mean, everyone admits that their benefits have always been obnoxious, and since they are the ones who perpetuated the careers of the most unscrupulous politicians, it seems a lot more just than allowing them to parasite off of their children and grandchildren.

24 I have an honest question- how is a college degree a waste of time when having a degree is the primary screen for most jobs and an absolute requirement for a management position?

Most of us haven't said a "degree is a waste of time". It is the type of degree. For example I have a niece who recently graduated with a degree in Poly Science. That is a waste of time and money.

However, Tech Schools with a two year degree do offer a lot of people better options and cheaper.

25

Would it be politically realistic to partially raid the pensions of unionized workers -- including current retirees -- through draconian taxes on their benefits?  I mean, everyone admits that their benefits have always been obnoxious, and since they are the ones who perpetuated the careers of the most unscrupulous politicians, it seems a lot more just than allowing them to parasite off of their children and grandchildren.

It would be like raiding an empty safe.

26 What I am trying to figure out is how to tax your children while mine remain free? I was thinking that since State taxes are deductible against Fed taxes, that the first State that taxes its citizens at 100% wins. I know this is all Charly Sheen, but imagine a State reducing their citizens Fed tax by 100% and then delivering their income back to them using State vouchers for food, housing, and descretionary expenditures. I know its crazy, but you certainly could control who remains a citizen and who doesn't pretty quickly.

27

Monty, this one paragraph you wrote should be posted at least once/week, imho. John F'ing Boner should be made to memorize and repeat it daily, before breaking into tears.

It is morally wrong to force young people to make good on false promises made before they were even born. It is an outrage, a scandal, a shame on our society. A society that invests in the old at the expense of (actually, to the large detriment of) the young cannot survive. A caring and kind society cares for the weak and elderly and helpless; a dynamic and just society allows the young to grow and prosper on their own merits. If America is to prosper as a nation, the young must be given room to build families and careers. To build lives, without the onerous, crushing burden of debt run up by their forebears.

It's also a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.  And a fraud. I left out fraud.

28 60 retirement age?

What bullshit.  They ought to publish the average age of those reaching "full retirement" - probably closer to 50-55.

Someone can enter the system in their 40's or 50's and retire in their 60's, and those retirees will bring up the average age.

Many state employees double dip as well.  A teacher who0 can retire at 50 or 55 with full bennies can then go to work for a state agency (in some states) or even the private sector.  And some states protect the pension income from taxes!

Being from Illinois - at least as boned as Kaleeforneeya - I should know.. state workers and teachers have gaming the system down to a science.

29 You didn't post pictures of David Hasselhof abs. There's been quite a few ab shots lately...what gives? This will disappoint some readers Monty.

30 There is seriously no hope for CA.  These guys/gals are making more than an attorney in big law in NYC.

Last night batchelor had a guest on who said that Brown is figuring out that it isn't just twisting a few republican arms to get things done, it's not the old political way, that they are really screwed and that Brown isn't able to get this across in a timely fashion, no one is taking him seriously.

31 when having a degree is the primary screen for most jobs and an absolute requirement

Not in this obameconomy- Mcjobs don't require college degrees. 
Are you in obamamerica?

32 I have solved the politics of budget problem The Dems say that we cannot possibly cut any more spending out of the budget.  We have to spend no less than $3.8 trillion next year.   Also, the Dems now agree that deficit is a problem and also the debt.   I need a Republican with balls enough to say, "Fine, but you jackholes have only proposed stupid crap such as a 3% surtax on incomes above $1 million per year.  Given that you say that we have no choice but to spend almost twice what we currently receive in revenues, where is your proposal to double all federal tax rates -- payroll as well as income?"   If we double taxes, then -- problem solved!!   All I need is an honest democrat. I am a genius.  QED

33 ....you don't need a degree for reality tv!.....hey that rhymes!

34 A 1961 HS graduate was better educated than a 2011 college graduate. Quite a feat.

35 If crude goes up 10 dollars in one day, the gas stations immediately raise prices to reflect that, but if it goes down 10 dollars in one day as it did a few days ago, the gas prices don't drop at the same rate they went up. Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:59 AM (wuv1c) Up like a rocket, fall like a feather.

36

After reading about Cali lifeguards making 200k and retiring at 50 w a 90% pension, I am no longer conflicted about the wreckless fiscal course the nation is on. I'm always asking myself, why should I sweat the fact that we are broke while everyone else is out there "getting mine?" No more conflict. To hell with it, I'm moving to Kellifornia and I'm getting mine.

37 We should tax all foreigners living abroad.

38 13

Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy

Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:55 AM (wuv1c)

Yep, it's overbought. It's peaked at 5 times it's price. Get out with any profits.

39 25 I have an honest question- how is a college degree a waste of time when having a degree is the primary screen for most jobs and an absolute requirement for a management position?

Most of us haven't said a "degree is a waste of time". It is the type of degree. For example I have a niece who recently graduated with a degree in Poly Science. That is a waste of time and money.

However, Tech Schools with a two year degree do offer a lot of people better options and cheaper.

Posted by: Vic at May 12, 2011 10:02 AM (M9Ie6)

I take offense at your assertation. My poly sci degree got me this $400k job and all the JP4 my Boeing 747 can gulp AND I have my own personal hit squad...oh yeah, one other thing, watch this drive...FOUR!

40 And I thought the Ron Paul thread was a substitute for the Doom Thread?

41 If crude goes up 10 dollars in one day, the gas stations immediately raise prices to reflect that, but if it goes down 10 dollars in one day as it did a few days ago, the gas prices don't drop at the same rate they went up. Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:59 AM (wuv1c) You see, it's all controlled by marginal commodity contract margin derivatives. Very complicated, lots of math with funny squiggles.

42

Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy

Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:55 AM (wuv1c)

I'm playing with the house's money so I haven't gotten out. 

43 Note to self...tax the life guards.

44

I'm convinced silver will go up over the next few years. I don't see our dollar getting any stronger any time soon.

However, It's dropped almost 25% in the past 2-3 days which seems extreme.

45 I know i know, the world needs plumbers, car mechanics and such- but lets face it most women don't want to do those types of jobs (I don't anyway). 

Posted by: shan 2008

You have allowed yourself to be forced into an artificial gender construct by the patriarchal hierarchy typical of Western society, that's why. 

46

"It would be like raiding an empty safe."

If the safe is empty, then they don't get any benefits, because the government should never have propped up union benefits in the first place.  If PEU's pensions are broke, then tell them all "So sorry!" and stick them into the Social Security system like everyone else.  Conservatives could easily begin engaging in the new class warfare:  Unionized Workers v. Everyone Else.

47 43
Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:55 AM (wuv1c)

I'm playing with the house's money so I haven't gotten out. 

Posted by: curious at May 12, 2011 10:10 AM (k1rwm)

It's the herding mentality. People bought it in panic thinking they were missing out on profits. It went up 80% in three months. Sooner or later that corrects itself. That being said, I'm holding onto all my silver coins. It's a hedge.

48 35 A 1961 HS graduate was better educated than a 2011 college graduate.

Quite a feat.

Goes to show that simply spending more on education doesn't lead to more educated students.

The performance of our primary and secondary schooling systems is shameful, particularly with all the information readily available to virtually everyone at the touch of a few buttons. 

49 45

I'm convinced silver will go up over the next few years. I don't see our dollar getting any stronger any time soon.

However, It's dropped almost 25% in the past 2-3 days which seems extreme.

Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 10:12 AM (wuv1c)

I'll point out that is what everyone is saying. Which is a herding mentality. The same happened in tech stocks in 1999 and real estate in 2006. Everyone brought those financial instruments. You know the results. I'm in the dollar which everyone is dissing.

50 this and this

51

"egardless of how much they have contributed, the hard reality is that the federal government has already spent it. No matter how deserving they are, it is younger generations of workers who have to come up with the money..."

All well and good, but people that are 50-70 years old now have planned and ordered their lives, often in very large measure, on the basis of or largely dependant on, social security. At this point taking that away will only shunt them to another government program and one that will condemn them to a much emptier existance. Monty and Greg, both obviously young men, speak like those on a sinking ship who yell, "Women and children my ass..!"

Better, I think, a plan like Ryan's (and the hated Bush's) that phases out social security over a resonable and compassionate time. That strikes me as more fitting of the ideals on which this country is built.

52 Mitt is an arrogant, deluded ass who thinks he will be able to finesse his disastrous Romneycare stand and his flip-flops because the rest of the field is so weak. Fortunately, he will fail.

53 51. heh Robot Devil . . . me too. My "top" targets for AU and AG have been met and met and that's it for me with those particular commodities. Of course I could be wrong, happened before!

54 Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy Posted by: Ben at May 12, 2011 09:55 AM (wuv1c) It was overspeculated? Buy now while you can still cash in on the fad! Tight jeans will be around forever!

55 The hedge funds are taking silver down. Gold also. Sell off, spook market, everyone sells off, buy it up at a discount price.

56 BTW I am really, really ticked off at how the stations are "overcompensating" pricewise around here - I think they see nice weather here in PA and are being realllllllllly slow to lower prices - they know we all want to get out there and do stuff. There is something UP with the stations here. Definitely. We'll see $60/barrel oil and $5 gas anyway.

57 I would prefer my cup of doom with cream and one Splenda please.

58 mpfs that's exactly how i take my doom

59 Old Geezer: Kids are expensive. Every set of parents operate on a "pay it forward" plan -- their own parents incurred costs raising them, and they in turn incur costs raising their own children. And so on. If you find the burden too onerous, don't have kids.

60 You see, it's all controlled by marginal commodity contract margin derivatives. Very complicated, lots of math with funny squiggles.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 12, 2011 10:09 AM (JxlVz)

And, the Indian guy who opens the store and checks out the local competition on GasBuddy.

61 No cream no sugar no tip.

62 Weekly Unemployment Claims an Elevated 434,000; Moving Average Trending Higher for a Month

63 Some kinda hubub in Missouri?

64 45

"I'm convinced silver will go up over the next few years. I don't see our dollar getting any stronger any time soon.

However, It's dropped almost 25% in the past 2-3 days which seems extreme."

 

Are you aware that it is in Sparky's, TIMMAY's,  Bernanke's and all Dem's facing re-election interest for oil and precious metals to go down? Are you aware that the first three have their own account to sell into your long positions? Do you really want to argue with these guys financially?  

65 The useless old eating the young who are raising families.
A great recipe for a viable economic future.

66 "So will the comparable upcoming retracement drive the CME into yet another margin hike frenzy? Check back in one week."

67 Better, I think, a plan like Ryan's (and the hated Bush's) that phases out social security over a resonable and compassionate time. You're assuming we have time to be "reasonable and compassionate". What if we don't? And what makes you think that the pols of the future will have any more backbone on entitlement reform than the current ones do? I realize that no one wants to get it in the keister on this, but the reality is that some one has to take the hit. You can't just keep kicking the can down the road. We're out of road. The crisis isn't ten years from now; it's right fucking now.

68 I have just spent a day or two reading some old Saturday Evening Post mags...1966 and an article titled "Are colleges obsolete?" The lifetime earning of college educated v. not was 360k to 224k, with the college educated recouping 136k.

It didn't say what the costs of education were, unfortunately, but you do have a point. The cost of a college education is overwhelming and in some cases will take kids 10 years or more to pay off if they were to be independent from the parents upon graduation, etc...That's not the way it should be.

69 61 Old Geezer:

Kids are expensive. Every set of parents operate on a "pay it forward" plan -- their own parents incurred costs raising them, and they in turn incur costs raising their own children. And so on. If you find the burden too onerous, don't have kids.

Posted by: Monty at May 12, 2011 10:22 AM (/0a60)

Instead of means testing social security and medicaid, I propose we have a fecundity test.  If your not above the replacement ratio, you get less - and you pay more until you are above it as well.  If you get divorced, and don't have custody, back to paying more.  Put some old fashion moral wood into the tax code.

70 >>Anyone know why Silver is tanking like crazy Same reason gold, oil and other commodities are tanking. Various exchanges both domestically and abroad keep raising margin rates and driving people to settle and keeping new money out. Frigging regulators always think they can "fix" everything buy screwing around with the rules. It never works in the end.

71 After 8 years of W's bullshit, don't say "compassionate" around me.

72 How boned is California? In California, a lifeguard -- a lifeguard -- can make $200K annually and retire at 50 with a full pension worth 90% of his full-time pay

Well these boob implants ain't cheap, ya know.

73 After the government those GM Execs are more to blame than the unions for their predicament. For so many years the went along with unsustainible demands from those parisites. They should have told the unions to get bent and picked up and started moving out of the Northeast back in the early seventies when the first gas shortage hit and the Japanese made their first inroads into the US market.

74 today's Treasury bond auction will officially put the US over its debt-limit. It's a living debt limit. Gutsy.

75

Better, I think, a plan like Ryan's (and the hated Bush's) that phases out social security over a resonable and compassionate time. That strikes me as more fitting of the ideals on which this country is built.

really? I think you're refering to 1933, not 1776, if that's what you mean by "this country"

76 honestly...if you have to take out a loan to become educated...you shouldn't be in school...i know that sounds harsh but honestly....

77 You know who's DOOMed? Mitt Romney that's who. RomneyCare was bad enough, but Mitt's unwillingness or inability to recognize it for the disaster it is will kill him in the 2012 election if the GOP is stupid enough to trot him out there.

Here's to sending him early. That would produce the ultimate schadenboner. Or perhaps in deference to gender; schadenpokies?

78

Did we already pass that time period known as the changeover between "summer and winter fuel"?

I know a lot of states mandate their own fuel blends for the Summer so it drives up prices because demand is estimated by the refiners.  But with prices so high and demand falling as a result, I would expect the price to fall about 25-75 cents per gallon.

79 "...reasonable and compassionate..."

Exactly why we are in such dire straits today. Government should never act compassionately. It should never act reasonably. It should act within the law.

Think of the countless trillions of waste since SS and Medicare/Medicaid were enacted. Those were compassionate and reasonable programs that have had unimaginable opportunity costs.

I want draconian and unreasonable for a generation. Then we can talk about being nice again.

80

I have an honest question- how is a college degree a waste of time when having a degree is the primary screen for most jobs and an absolute requirement for a management position?

This is unfortunately part of the problem, as far as I see it.  A lot of jobs will say they require X-amount of years of education beyond high school, OR a combination of education and experience.  But getting the experience portion tends to require having gotten at least a little of the education as well.  It really depends on the industry, the area of the country, and the specific company. 

It's true that there are jobs that DON'T require education beyond high school, but as college degrees have become more and more common, it's become harder and harder to find them.  I know for a few years it seemed like a college degree, at least an associate's degree if not higher, had become the equivalent of a high school diploma.  It felt like that was the minimum standard to even get an interview.  Some businesses will want your degree to be in a field related to the industry or the job you're applying for, but some don't seem to care WHAT you majored in so much as whether or not you graduated.  I assume they take that as a sign that you're persistent and don't abandon things once you start them.  I can't say for sure, since I've never worked in HR.

So you have a lot of students who go to college because they're positive that they won't be able to get a GOOD job -- not even a great job, just a GOOD job -- without one. How right or wrong that is I can't say, since I don't have any statistics on what the ratio is of jobs requiring two to four years of postsecondary education to jobs that require a minimum of high school.  I'd be interested in seeing those numbers, actually.

The other problem is in the high schools themselves, especially the parents of the students there.  One of our local high schools here in NH a few years back got called on the carpet  because they said, essentially, that college doesn't have to be every kid's goal after high school.  The outcry was crazy, which I thought was silly.  Parents were furious and accused the school of calling their children stupid, which was not the case at all.  But a lot of parents grew up during a time when college really WAS a status symbol, and really WAS as close to a guarantee of getting a good job as anything.  When my sister and I went to college my parents were convinced we'd graduate and become millionaires right off the bat.  We tried to explain to them that the world doesn't work that way anymore, but they refused to hear it.  I think what's happening now is that the younger parents who came off the tailend of that higher education gravy train are starting to realize that their own children are going to get even less bang for their buck than they themselves did, and they want options that will ensure their children a good future the way a college degree used to do.

81 Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 12, 2011 10:33 AM (eOXTH)

even the rich kids have loans.  You must come from money to have that attitude. 

82 college is a waste of money and time for most people. I did 2 years of college then quit. Ive been working in the tech field for the last 11 years and making good money. A degree does nothing for me

83 You know who's DOOMed? Mitt Romney that's who. RomneyCare was bad enough, but Mitt's unwillingness or inability to recognize it for the disaster it is will kill him in the 2012 election if the GOP is stupid enough to trot him out there.

Romney's getting desperate:

Romney: If Elected President, I Will Issue on My First Day ObamaCare Waivers to All 50 StatesÂ…

84 doom, what doom, there are plenty of mice to eat.

85 There is no such thing as "our old people" or "our kids". Those terms comes from collectivist thinking. If that kind of thinking doesn't end, this financial and social crisis will happen again and again.

86 Personally, I think college loans should be directly underwritten by the employers.  Why can I get a tax credit for continuing education for current employees; yet not do the same for a future one?  I guess I could game the system, make the kid a part-timer or on "leave w/o pay" and cover some of their expenses.

87 "You must come from money to have that attitude."

Posted by: curious at May 12, 2011 10:36 AM (k1rwm)

I think I understand why you got thumped a few days ago.

You completely missed the point.

88

minuteman: GM execs have learned exactly nothing over the last 30 years.  They are complete tools of the AFL-CIO.  None of these executives ever thought to confront the unions that were slowly killing their domestic industry.

You know who else is a tool of the AFL-CIO.  According to Mark Salter, and why he never said anything about this before, you fucking piece of shit Salter, he now writes that Obama's immigration position was the AFL-CIO position when he tried to get in on the McCain-Grahamnesty sham.

89 The Post Office is going broke.

90

Instead of means testing social security and medicaid, I propose we have a fecundity test.  If your not above the replacement ratio, you get less - and you pay more until you are above it as well.  If you get divorced, and don't have custody, back to paying more.  Put some old fashion moral wood into the tax code.

Posted by: Jean at May 12, 2011 10:27 AM (WkuV6)

The only way that this could be fair is if women were legally required to put out; more specifically, if they were required to put out for me. Or is that what you meant by putting wood in the tax code. 

91

Re: What can you buy with an ounce of gold

For most of human history, gold was a standard for non-bartered exchange. While it is fairly bulky compared to a check book, a gold coin is still smaller than an ox or a bushel of wheat. An ounce of gold was an ounce of gold. How much you could exhange for raw goods varied, but the medium itself didn't inflate or deflate.

The world has been moving steadily away from using hard assets like gold or silver as the medium of exchange for quite some time. I have no opinion on whether that's a good or bad thing. At the end of the day, gold's value is still largely based on a shared belief that it is worth X. Paper money, and increasingly, 0's and 1's in a bank's mainframe are now the medium of exchange. A dollar also has value because we all agree that it has value and for no other reason. It's also a way of keeping score.

I don't understand the value of gold other than as a component in some gizmo being made or worn. How do make change for an ounce of gold? Frankly, if the dollar collapses, I don't think my dry cleaner will suddenly start taking my wife's ear rings in exchange, but they might take some cans of food or a couple boxes of ammo.

92 .......haha curious.....nope.....i had to drop out of college because my parents didn't have the funds and i was working minimum wage jobs to stay in a ca state school......my grades suffered because i was too tired to go to class....i ended up working at a temp agency and got my foot in the door at a bank...i schlepped my way in to the supervisor position of 4 dept......my husband went to college for 2 yrs on his dime...joined the navy contributed to the gi bill and paid for his education at calpoly and ucla.....we took out no loans and lived so friggin meagerly we had to cancel the newspaper to make ends meet.......so......didn't come from money.......but i do have it now and my four kids will go to college with out taking out loans and with out us footing the entire bill on some useless degree at some over rated over priced school....

93 Romney has bad advisers.  Why he can't see socialist health care is wrong and bad at both the state and federal level is beyond me.  He would gain alot more credibility if he would just admit a mistake.

94

The only way that this could be fair is if women were legally required to put out; more specifically, if they were required to put out for me. Or is that what you meant by putting wood in the tax code. 

Posted by: somebody else, not me at May 12, 2011 10:40 AM (7EV/g)

That would be a hard legal precedent to erect...

95 This problem started when one American was allowed to vote money out of the pocket of another. Until the Americans would do that lose their right to vote we are fucked. And yes I am an extremist, what the fuck of it go hard or go home.

96 >>I would expect the price to fall about 25-75 cents per gallon. Don't count on it.

97 Anyone under 55 that has ordered their lives around receiving a return on their contributions toa government enforced Ponzi schemes that are at their maturity is a fool. 

98 Posted by: somebody else, not me me at May 12, 2011 10:42 AM (LdYLm)

There would be stiff resistance, but I think it could be pushed through.

99 even the rich kids have loans.  You must come from money to have that attitude. 
Posted by: curious

It is a grad school thing, anyone not on a fellowship or something similar, isn't "good" enough to have academically earned the right to grade undergraduate papers. 

100

I take offense at your assertation. My poly sci degree got me this $400k job and all the JP4 my Boeing 747 can gulp AND I have my own personal hit squad...oh yeah, one other thing, watch this drive...FOUR!

Posted by: b+rry obowmao at May 12, 2011 10:09 AM (1IjKi) 

Shows the quality of a Poli Sci degree.  The JEF can't even spell "FORE!"

101 100 Posted by: somebody else, not me me at May 12, 2011 10:42 AM (LdYLm)

There would be stiff resistance, but I think it could be pushed through.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 12, 2011 10:45 AM (LH6ir)

I don't know, these kinda efforts have a tendency to go flaccid after someone pounds at it for a while...

102 Romney has bad advisers. Why he can't see socialist health care is wrong and bad at both the state and federal level is beyond me. He would gain alot more credibility if he would just admit a mistake. Posted by: Guy Fawkes at May 12, 2011 10:42 AM (IXLvN) Nice try. Romney likely does have bad advisors, but that is not the problem. Romney is the problem. He's an asshole.

103 i don't use a credit card either....if i want an expensive dress...guess what? i budget for it and pay for it out of actually money....not pretend credit card money... i came from "you can't afford it? too bad, so sad....get over it"

104 Romney is the problem.

He's an asshole.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at May 12, 2011 10:47 AM (JxlVz)

So I can count on your vote then! Excellent, glad to have you on board!

105 I like the water, water is nice by the beach...

106 F*ck the young!  What about me, Me, ME???!!11!!

107 97This problem started when one American was allowed to vote money out of the pocket of another. Until the Americans would do that lose their right to vote we are fucked.

And yes I am an extremist, what the fuck of it go hard or go home.

Posted by: Mr Pink at May 12, 2011 10:42 AM (kOCbI)

We hate you because you would take away our vote. 

108

The only way that this could be fair is if women were legally required to put out; more specifically, if they were required to put out for me. Or is that what you meant by putting wood in the tax code. 

Posted by: somebody else, not me at May 12, 2011 10:40 AM (7EV/g)

Instead of a marriage penalty; we could have a bachelor penalty.  Europe, Japan, and Russia are desperately trying the carrot (cash incentives) to get the birth rate up.  I think a little stick would work.  As a side benefit, stock in the makers of little blue pills and Ukrainian "marriage" brokers would skyrocket.

109 I've never really understood this "what am I supposed to do if I ordered my life around SS/Medicare" argument. What if I order my life around the expectation that I'll earn 20% on my 401(k), and that expectation ends up being misguided? I'll be very sad, but I'll understand that the problem was mine for being overoptimistic and a bit stupid for not planning for a worst-case scenario. What I'm saying is that part of being an adult is planning for your own future, not relying on other people to do it for you. If you bought into the SS/Medicare myth that doesn't make you a bad person, but it also does not obligate me (or should not, in any sane universe) to make those promises good. This is not Monty being anti-Geezer. This is Monty being pro-individual-responsibility. You are not exempted from the realities of life just because you happened to reach a certain age. Old age comes to us all, and we all have to plan for it (or not, as the case may be). A lack of planning and foresight on my part does not constitute an emergency on every one else's part. The gub'mint don't owe you a living, folks. Which is to say: other taxpayers don't owe you a living. And even if they did, it doesn't matter -- the tit has run dry.

110 Any young person who thinks the politicians won't assfuck you via taxes to kick the entitlement can down the road until the politicians are safely retired doesn't know how the game is played.

111 I have to admit, Monty & the Doom thread is one of my fav blog items. I don't know how to describe it other than a morbid fascination similar to a slow motion car accident. Just like the absurd car chase scenes in the movie Blues Brothers. I can watch over and over (and have). It's popcorn time and Monty is The Movie Spoiler telling us how the story ends. Of course, having grown up in Detroit I was invited to the sneak preview. Now thanks to Obama EVERYONE is invited! As John McClane said, "Welcome to the party pal". http://tinyurl.com/3r543fd

112 Fucking racists.

113 Romney was a perfectly acceptable Governor, and would make a fine President. I know everybody is all wee-wee'd up over MA health care "reform", but most of them have no clue as to how that came about, his vetoes, etc. I'd prefer it if he'd defeated the Dems on that score, and not signed anything, but that wasn't really an option (vetoes were routinely overridden, making his lack of signature moot). His executive experience, integrity (as far as I can tell after decades of watching him, he's clean as a whistle), proven intellect and understanding of the modern world economy set him apart from the other candidates.

114 Gold prices softened slightly on Tuesday as sentiment was dampened by a margin hike in U.S. crude futures, but worries about Greece's debt crisis are expected to limit the downside. The oil margin hike came on the heels of consecutive margin increases on the COMEX silver futures in the past two weeks, which knocked silver prices down more than 25 percent last week and triggered a broad sell-off in commodities. http://tinyurl.com/65mfanl Commodities prices are being managed to punish "evil speculators". Current price fluctuations are not a result of underlying market conditions, they are a result of market manipulation. If you don't believe it, watch the price of gas. National average was up again yesterday even as oil futures are going down. Market manipulation always leads to awesome results.

115

i don't use a credit card either....if i want an expensive dress...guess what? i budget for it and pay for it out of actually money....not pretend credit card money... i came from "you can't afford it? too bad, so sad....get over it"

The Bernank is gonna be pissed.  Wait.  Maybe he won't be pissed.  If the Chinese just float the fucking yuan already we can be through with this credit crazed nonsense.

116 The rich kids have loans because their parents know that the interest rate on those loans is lower than the interest earned on their mutual funds and establishes a credit rating when mom and dad pay it back. The interest on the student loan is also deductible. It's stupid not to take one from the parents' point of view if they are paying the tab.

117 Well, yeah, duh, Romney is one of his own advisers.  But you would think somebody over there would be saying, hey dumbass this is stupid.

118 So I can count on your vote then! Excellent, glad to have you on board! Posted by: Newt Gingrich at May 12, 2011 10:50 AM (lAkUp) Sorry, Newt, you make Romney look good.

119 In the universe of assholes, Romney is the solar system, Newt, however, is the whole fucking galaxy.

120 The child tax credit should also not go away when your income hits $150,000 or when the kid hits 17 1/2. That's when they are the most expensive. A 5 year old doesn't cost much. A 18 year old is an expensive thing (and a pain in the ass). Should get tax credits for not dumping them on the street.

121

"What if I order my life around the expectation that I'll earn 20% on my 401(k), and that expectation ends up being misguided? . . . If you bought into the SS/Medicare myth that doesn't make you a bad person, but it also does not obligate me (or should not, in any sane universe) to make those promises good."

The point here being that the generation who ordered it's life around the expectation should not expect to get a free pass when it comes to "shared sacrifice" -- particularly when said generation was the only generation in a position to do something about the thievery when it was going on.

You know, Monty, they should let you write for the front page or something.

122 This problem started when one American was allowed to vote money out of the pocket of another. Until the Americans would do that lose their right to vote we are fucked.

I told you this was going to become a problem.

123

I would have been fine with Romney being our candidate in 2008, especially given the other options we had.

I don't hate Romney, but I do not want him to be our candidate in 2012.

He became toxic when Obamacare passed, because its the same thing as Romneycare. It immediately takes one of the biggest issues off the table in any presidential campaign should he win the nomination.

Also, I noticed he is quick to switch sides on abortion when it suits him politically, which is fine with me as its not a big issue for me, but he steadfastly refuses to say that Romneycare was a mistake. He won't even pretend it was a mistake.

How can he say he'll undo Obamacare in one breath and continually defend romneycare in the other. I know one is state versus federal, but it's a failure no matter how you cut it.

Romney has joined the list, along with Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee, of people I will in no way support in the primaries.

124 Huckabee is the next most nebulous asshole in the ether.

125 dagny...they should keep the child tax credit for the parents entire life...and consider it pain and suffering....although they bring us great joy...the time spent fretting over them should be a life time write off...........

126 I'd prefer it if he'd defeated the Dems on that score, and not signed anything, but that wasn't really an option (vetoes were routinely overridden, making his lack of signature moot). Posted by: Lincolntf at May 12, 2011 10:53 AM (xMT+4) Moot? I bet he wishes he'd vetoed the whole enchilada when he had the chance. I lived in Mass when he was Gov. and he was better than the typical or any Democrat Gov. but that ain't enough to make him a Conservative or a good GOP nominee for 2012.

127

This isn't related to anything else mentioned above, but definitely DOOM related.  Caroline Goar had a great column in The Toronto Star this week entitled "Why the poor cast votes for Conservatives."  It's her attempt to explain to Canadian liberals why they lost so handily in the recent elections.  I don't think you could say that Goar is fond of Canadian conservatives, but at least she's clear-headed enough to recognize what people want, and is willing to point it out to the liberals in the hopes that they'll get their act together for the next national election. 

I think she's spitting into the wind, to be honest.  If there's one thing my life has taught me, it's that lefties of any nationality will never believe the problem lies with THEM.  It's always someone else's fault.  In this case, it's the fault of the poor who chose to vote for the EEEEEVIL conservatives instead of staying with the "compassionate" liberal party.  The liberals won't learn their lesson, and they'll keep right on with business as usual.  Which is probably a good thing, to be honest, if it keeps them sidelined.  I know Canadian conservatives are more like our American RINOs than American conservatives, but when you see how far left some of Canada's policies have become, you have to give them props for at least turning the wheel in the right direction.  They can pick up speed towards a stronger conservatism once they've gotten a little mileage under their belt.

128 Mitt = Shitt

129 I forgot to add Jon Huntsman to my list of people i won't vote for. He's near the top

130 Oh, and hat-tip to Jonathan Kay at the National Post (Canada), via Blazing Cat Fur, for the Caroline Goar link.

131

I don't expect Romney to appeal to every single branch of the GOP, but I'd say he has a better than even chance of getting the nomination, and an 82% likelihood of winning the Presidency.

132 surfer what does newt=?

133 mitt was good enough for mass so that automatically means he's not good enough for me...........

134 Posted by: Lincolntf at May 12, 2011 10:53 AM (xMT+4) Maybe so. He certainly would be better than four more years of Ebola. Is that saying a lot about him?

135 >>what does newt=? 4 more years of Barry.

136 What, so I wrote sycophantic letters to Obama and Hillary.  That is what ambassadors do, right?

137 127 dagny...they should keep the child tax credit for the parents entire life...and consider it pain and suffering....although they bring us great joy...the time spent fretting over them should be a life time write off...........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 12, 2011 11:01 AM (eOXTH)

No shit. Great joy, constant worry and heartache. The teenager (16-25) is the stupiest creature on earth.

Except I did solve the dirty bathroom mystery last night. Turns out 7 year old was seeing how far away from the toilet he could stand and still pee in a high arch. About 4 feet. I think the neighbors heard me screaming and they aren't that close-by.

138

I don't expect Romney to appeal to every single branch of the GOP, but I'd say he has a better than even chance of getting the nomination, and an 82% likelihood of winning the Presidency.

I don't think he'll get the nomination. He's got too much baggage now, especially when you consider what type of republicans are highly motivated and will be turning up for the primaries.

In 2008, it was just party loyalists who turn up for every primary. There wasn't much to choose from and it was unlikely that we were going to win.

The primaries in 2012 will be vastly different. We have a good shot at winning, and people are extremely motivated. Many of whom aren't romney fans.

I will agree with you that Romney would have a decent chance in 2012 against Obama, but so do several other republicans

139

I don't know, these kinda efforts have a tendency to go flaccid after someone pounds at it for a while...

Posted by: somebody else, not me me at May 12, 2011 10:47 AM (LdYLm)

Speak for yourself.

140

Brutal solutions to funding social security:

1. Raise retirement age to 70

2. Tax wages above the $106,800 wage base

3. Means test recipients-if you earn over $100,000 no social security for you

Admit that Social Security is a redistributionist welfare scheme and be done with it.

141 dagny my sil didn't believe a 4 yr old boy could hit the ceiling with piss........she laughed at me...until her son turned 4........

142

 long and strong all night long

Oh please. 10 minutes is not "all night" (yet still impressive)

143

I don't expect Romney to appeal to every single branch of the GOP, but I'd say he has a better than even chance of getting the nomination, and an 82% likelihood of winning the Presidency.

Posted by: Lincolntf at May 12, 2011 11:04 AM (xMT+4)

I may be in the minority for believing this, but honestly?  If our candidate -- whoever he or she may be -- DOESN'T win, and win handily, in the general election, then we the voters are not doing our job, and it will be the death knell for the Republican party.  If people are informed about the truly awful record Barry's chalked up while in office, and if our side doesn't pussyfoot around with all the "My esteemed colleague across the aisle" bullshit like usual, then I absolutely cannot imagine how Obammy can win.  I just can't. 

I'm no political neophyte, and I'm about as cynical as they come, especially towards the 52-percenters.  But honestly, my head will not wrap around THAT MANY PEOPLE being THAT STUPID in ANOTHER election.  The bloom is off this President's rose, and it ain't getting put back anytime soon.

144 Except I did solve the dirty bathroom mystery last night. Turns out 7 year old was seeing how far away from the toilet he could stand and still pee in a high arch. About 4 feet. I think the neighbors heard me screaming and they aren't that close-by.

LOL, sounds like a real Moron in the making. We used to have a guy at work who bragged he could pee over a railway boxcar while standing on level ground.

145
  You know what pisses me ,reading about what is probably going to happen here?  That the people who did their best, in accordance with all the legal, moral and ethical precepts, to live their lives, are going to be told that it was for NOTHING.

  Too bad, so sad, but you lose. What you've striven for will be discarded, and you'll see none of the benefits. For NO good, logical reason. I'd say the consequences of THAT will be quite terrifying.

146 irongrampa nice guys/gals finish last.........

147

When FDR proposed social security, Americans at that time embraced the opportunity to receive unearned windfall of money in exchange for indebting future generations to pay for it. It was ponzi scheme from the get go, and the scam would probably still be working for another 30+ years if liberals wouldn't have expanded the scope of SS to include "disability" payments to able-bodied and disabled alcoholics and drug addicts who contributed little or nothing into the system. Either way, it was doomed to fail eventually, because it is/was a system based on a fraudulent premise.

One of the biggest historical misconceptions of the last 100 years is that Social Security and FDR's "stimulus" spending saved the US from the great depression. In point of fact, unemployment remained sky high during this deficit spending binge.. What actually pulled the US out of the great depression was the fact that the US was the only strong economy "left standing" after WWII. All of Europe, Japan, and SE Asia was leveled to smithereens during WWII, leaving them with no manufacturing base. The US after WWII filled that void for decades, while implementing govt. austerity measures here at home to trim the size of govt. THAT is what pulled us out from the great depression, not Social Security, and not FDR's deficit spending "jobs" programs which resulted in 19% unemployment. 

148

my sil didn't believe a 4 yr old boy could hit the ceiling with piss........she laughed at me...until her son turned 4........

Right!

The boys piss all over but at least you don't have to take them to the bathroom when you're out in nature. It's hysterical seeing some poor dad's face when 4 year old girl, a 1/2 mile  from the nearest building say, "daddy, I have go potty." Cracks me up everytime.

149

LOL, sounds like a real Moron in the making. We used to have a guy at work who bragged he could pee over a railway boxcar while standing on level ground.

He is. While I was threatening to kill him or at least slap him so hard his grandchildren would be dizzy, he and his brothers like hell.

150 >>I'd say the consequences of THAT will be quite terrifying. Oh I don't know, things seem to be going swimmingly in Greece if you discount the economic meltdown, strikes, riots and tear gas.

151 Except I did solve the dirty bathroom mystery last night. Turns out 7 year old was seeing how far away from the toilet he could stand and still pee in a high arch. About 4 feet. I think the neighbors heard me screaming and they aren't that close-by<<< That's like 10 lbs of awesome in a 5 lb sack. I have heard similar screams when having a piss war (crossing the streams in the same toilet) with The Heir, our six year-old son. Or being interrogated: "Your son just asked me what a perfumed hoo-hah is. WHERE DID HE HEAR THAT?" "I have no idea."

152 #150  Yeah, Ha Ha Ha *sobs* Ha Ha Ha *sobs* Ha Ha Ha.  Really funny until you've walked a mile in MY shoes. 

153 Turns out 7 year old was seeing how far away from the toilet he could stand and still pee in a high arch. Well, let's see: factor in the specific mass of the urine "quantum" (let's just say per cubic millimeter); the gravitational constant and altitude of the test site (bathroom); the coriolis effect on the stream imposed by the earth's rotation; the delta-V of the stream from penis to toilet-rim; the loss of velocity of said stream due to friction in the atmosphere; and the operation of fluid dynamics on said stream as it arcs (because a stream of liquid has a complicated behavior and is not a simple ballistic arc even in a vacuum).... The kid was obviously running a highly-sophisticated physics experiment, and you fucked it all up. And yelled at the budding young scientist in the bargain. You should apologize.

154 For NO good, logical reason. The reason is perfectly logical. We ran out of money to pay for all of it. It turns out that our assumptions way back in 1933 were completely wrong. We doubled-down on the bet during LBJ's great society in the 1960's and fucked it up worse. By the 1980's it was obvious to everyone (at least, to anyone not totally deluded) that the system was untenable. Everything since the failed "reforms" of the 1980's has been duct-tape and band-aids, trying to keep a failed experiment alive. But now the costs are just completely out of control, and if not stopped they will completely bankrupt us. So the reason is simple and beautiful in the way that the simplest explanations always are: we are broke. Skint. Stony. Bereft of funds. Insolvent. Everyone wants someone to blame for the fuckup, but it doesn't really matter -- what matters is how we stem the bleeding.

155
  It would be amusing to take all the perpetrators of  the current misery (the living ones), strip them of EVERYTHING down to their socks and shove them into the street with a smile and this advice--"This is America, chum,the land of opportunity."
 
  Now go find one.

156 142

Brutal solutions to funding social security:

1. Raise retirement age to 70

2. Tax wages above the $106,800 wage base

3. Means test recipients-if you earn over $100,000 no social security for you

Admit that Social Security is a redistributionist welfare scheme and be done with it.

 

 

You forgot the other option, constrain it to function only as a retirement system. No SSI for every malady known to man. Create a separate widows and orphan program and measure it's cost separately.

157 My largest expense is taxes followed closely by my generation X daughter who consistently hooked up with generation X worthless males who had children then divorced and left without paying child support. Most of whom could not/would not hold a job for longer than 2 weeks.

158 The twit Slate girl completely misunderstood Thiel.  He wasn't saying that higher ed has gotten too expensive; he said that we are dumping a bunch of debt-laden college graduates into a labor market that doesn't have enough jobs for them.  As a result, these grads are finding it difficult to earn enough money to pay back the loans.  THAT'S the bubble.  When they start defaulting, it won't be pretty.

159 Just how much lower can these snakes get lower and lower then in a wagon rut

160 Irongrampa, You can always find employment in my Death's Head Shock Legions. I can channel your rage and fury to productive use In the coming Dark Times, when we retake the hoarded canned goods and blond wimmen that the ragged defenders of Topeka, Kansas selfishly choose to withhold from us. Join early and you will have your pick of the choicest wimmens in our Pleasure Battalions.

161 My largest expense is taxes followed closely by my generation X daughter who consistently hooked up with generation X worthless males who had children then divorced and left without paying child support. Most of whom could not/would not hold a job for longer than 2 weeks. Solution: stop handing the worthless spawn your money. Remember, whatever behavior you subsidize, you get more of.

162 115 Romney was a perfectly acceptable Governor, and would make a fine President. I know everybody is all wee-wee'd up over MA health care "reform", but most of them have no clue as to how that came about, his vetoes, etc.
_________

My problem isn't that he signed it so much as that he seems to be unable to recognize that it's a disaster. Whenever I see him on TV, he's talking about how it's working just great.

163

The kid was obviously running a highly-sophisticated physics experiment, and you fucked it all up. And yelled at the budding young scientist in the bargain. You should apologize.

That was the attitude. Like when the older two bet each other they couldn't, blindfolded, throw a watermelon up in the air in the kitchen and catch it . Turns out they couldn't.

And women are "blonde"? 

164
  Thanks Jeff but I gotta decline. My other half would take exception, and her fury would make the worst of your Legion resemble Shari Lewis' Lamb Chop.

  BUT, if there were unlimited 7.62 and .45acp available, perhaps an accommodation could be reached.

165 167 That was the attitude. Like when the older two bet each other they couldn't, blindfolded, throw a watermelon up in the air in the kitchen and catch it . Turns out they couldn't.
________

Ya never know 'til ya try.

166 nothing else matters it is doom alone that counts .

167

The twit Slate girl completely misunderstood Thiel.  He wasn't saying that higher ed has gotten too expensive; he said that we are dumping a bunch of debt-laden college graduates into a labor market that doesn't have enough jobs for them.  As a result, these grads are finding it difficult to earn enough money to pay back the loans.  THAT'S the bubble.  When they start defaulting, it won't be pretty.

That's not it either.  My understanding is that Thiel's challenge is that he's saying the Ivy League, MIT, CalTech and Stanford START with the top talent and they naturally work hard to become that with the degree in hand.  Well, he's suggesting what if they bypassed the school and went right for success?

I suppose, indirectly he is challenging the cost of tuition.

168

Monty.

I agree with your paean to individualism and I support all those who suggest means testing, increasing age for collection, etc., but the fact remains that for those on the brink of collecting ss, the choices are very limited. Even the whole IRA idea is only 20+ years old. Many of these people just didn't have the time to prepare for what was coming.

"Their problem", you say. Not really. You WILL have to pay for a large percentage of them whether you like it or not when they are thrown onto those other government programs.

People at the point of collection right now were born after WWII and raised during a mostly comfortable and prosperous time. SS was a fact of life. They were not involved in the Depression that spawned it, it was easily affordable, and they concerned themselves with the minutae of making a living. Most of them considered themselves individualists as well and as working hard for a comfortable future. Many had defined benefits retirement plans because that, too, was the way it worked then. There were simply other things to be concerned about that in grand scheme of things figured higher in life's triage calculation.

You are living your life in an age of economic crisis, increasingly stupid and destructive government actions and a world full of seemingly crazy religious fanatics. The way you look at the world (and, to a large extent, will for the rest of your life) is being molded by your present experiences. You will likely find that as you approach your 60's and 70's your preparations and ideas are no longer sufficient to the moment. I suspect that at that time, you will regret some of your choices and hope that, at that time, if you need help there is someone there----even if it's just the government. I can tell you that every generation goes through this and that you won't escape it.

I suspect that you internalize your DOOM theme too much. I have seen this country go through some pretty bad times and come out O.K. on the other end. For every Obumble we seem to find three or four Reagans or at least a Reagan and one or two Eisenhowers. We still have more than enough manufacturing and production capacity extant in the country to pull the economy through.

For the person above that implied  that Roosevelt was the first to embroil the government in taxpayer schemes, you're wrong. From the original signing there have been schemes to use government taxation authority to improve the "public good". The number and variety of special pleadings that have been forced into that appelation have grown through the intervening years (some would say that have grown geometrically since Lyndon Johnson) but it has been with us from the beginning. It can certainly be difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, but many have been objectively good for the "general welfare". Even SS, when it was enacted, was good for the country and it saved lives. What it has become shouldn't cloud how it started and why.

169

"Even SS, when it was enacted, was good for the country and it saved lives. What it has become shouldn't cloud how it started and why."

SS started by promising unearned financial benefits in exchange for indebting future generations. How is/was that "good" for the country? It fostered dependence on the govt, and it gives false hope to those who paid into it but who will never receive anything close to what they contributed. That's neither fair, nor good..

170

Monty:

t is morally wrong to force young people to make good on false promises made before they were even born. It is an outrage, a scandal, a shame on our society. A society that invests in the old at the expense of (actually, to the large detriment of) the young cannot survive. A caring and kind society cares for the weak and elderly and helpless; a dynamic and just society allows the young to grow and prosper on their own merits. If America is to prosper as a nation, the young must be given room to build families and careers. To build lives, without the onerous, crushing burden of debt run up by their forebears.

Never mind questions of ethics or "fairness": it's just math. The numbers do not, cannot, and will not ever even up, no matter what accounting tricks the government uses. Until we fundamentally change how the Big Three entitlement programs (SS, Medicare, Medicaid) work, we will continue to load up our young people with a crippling load of debt they had no hand in accruing.

 

You are going to make Darleen Click cry if you keep saying this.  I remember one time she was saying that the fact that you went to school, which received taxes, you were thereby on the hook for all of the SSI / Medicare / Medicaid debt.

Hmm.  Going to the state mandated public high school puts you on the hook for all of that.  Who knew?

171

Thanks as always for the DOOM Monty. Crazy motivational...

Everyone have a great day.

172

The Baby Boomers and the 'Greatest Generation'  had their cake and ate it too.   They saved for retirement - but also spent the money - on themselves.

Now their little children and grandchildren have to pay and pay.   Their salaires will have to cover their living expenses, their savings and the retirement of eveyone older than tehm.    Child Abuse, really.

173

Imagine if the goverment forced younger people to invest in Bernie Madoff schemes to ensure the earlier investors received the returns they were promised.  After all, those investors were counting on receiving those investments. 

 

174 SSI should have been insurance, not an entitlement.

175 ...Mitt's unwillingness or inability to recognize it for the disaster it is will kill him in the 2012 election if the GOP is stupid enough to trot him out there.

What do you mean, if?

176 159
  It would be amusing to take all the perpetrators of  the current misery (the living ones), strip them of EVERYTHING down to their socks and shove them into the street with a smile and this advice--"This is America, chum,the land of opportunity."
 
  Now go find one.

Posted by: irongrampa at May 12, 2011 11:24 AM (ud5dN)

I found billion$ and billion$ of opportunities!

177 In principle, I agree with what you say about Social Security being a burden on future generations. Morally wrong? Check. Fiscally unsound? Check.

There's a problem though:
Putting aside that those who are collecting SS now did so in good faith. Many never thought they would need it until they were physically impaired to where they were unable to support themselves. Many of them assumed they would never reach that point. That the Ultimate Agent of Doom, the boney destroyer of Kings and Peasants alike, The Final Force of Entropy would take them before they reached that point.

Thanks to our magnificent Doctors and our capitalist system of free markets driving senescent research, they now live way longer than any since Methuselah.

To call a unilateral halt to all benefits for all people will plunge millions into a life of pain, starvation and death. AND THAT WOULD BE MORALLY WRONG!

Because of the changes that government has wrought (and the proclivities of business managers to seek the lowest cost solutions) there is NO place for any of those millions to find sources of finances through their personal effort (that's IF they're physically or electronically able to do so).

It's easy to say "tear down this system. It's an unfair burden on the younger generation. They should have planned better for their retirement."

It's not as easy for anyone of a certain age and physical impairment to now find some way to acquire the means to supply their needs.

Government during the time of the expansion and failure of the SS system has also made it harder for anyone over a certain age to find employment. It has also made it more difficult for anyone to become self employed.

Businesses routinely reject older workers (oh they won't admit to that because that's against the law but we know what they're doing) for reasons of cost and liability that MAY arise by hiring an older worker. (many of those reasons impelled by government mandates and regulations)

You can find in the news (and a search of the laws that have been enacted which impair anyone attempting to start some business) stories of all levels of government forcing entrepreneurs in any area of business to close and/or be penalized because of red tape or ridiculous requirements that were enacted by politicians, to please their contributing larger business, to help those businesses avoid competition.

Until THOSE laws are rescinded and laws with teeth are enacted to prevent discrimination against older workers, to call for SS to be defunded IS ALSO MORALLY WRONG!

To blame the current generation of SS recipients as solely responsible for the current fiscal situation is also MORALLY WRONG.

Until the brokers and bankers, stock analysts and speculators, politicians and CEOs also assume some of the responsibility then you're just looking for a convenient scapegoat and a misdirection from the actual perpetrators of our fiscal meltdown.

I suppose that might assuage someone's guilty conscience but talking like this or actually stopping SS won't solve the problems.

And you know it.

178

Jakee308

You said that much better than I. Thanks for that.

179

So unless we completely eradicate alleged age discrimination which may or may not be prevalent, or until every banker pays for his wrongs, no touching Social Security, right? That's an absurdly high bar.

Look, I agree that it's wrong to make people pay into a system which was sold as retirement insurance, and then pull the rug out when it comes time to collect. But that's what will happen to me and millions like me. I'm in my mid-40's and I've been paying into the system since I was 16, maxing out on SS payments for the last 15 - 20 yrs.  Are the workers in my age group expected to say "fine, we'll give up everything (or close to it) we paid into SS for decades so that the older generation can collect in full"? BS. We're broke, so it's got to be shared sacrifice, including the older generation taking cuts to their benefits. But others have to make serious cuts too - Govt pensioners for example, who paid in so little for their benefits need to sacrifice more of what they're expecting. If I have to wait until age 67 to collect SS, then government pensioners damn sure need to wait until they're 67 to begin collecting their pensions, which need to be slashed from the current bloated levels. None of this "we're more equal than thou" crap when it comes to making tough cuts.

Frankly, I don't think politicians have the stomach to make the needed cuts, which means that we'll have to implode, defaulting on debt obligations with runaway inflation and a dollar which is severely debased

180

Mook,

I see this government workers complaint a lot but when I looked it up, government workers since Reagan's time have been on SS and they retire at the same age as everyone else. The Civil Service Retirement System which was eliminated at that time required a 7% contribution from workers which was in line with the defined benefit programs of many businesses of that era and far more than many of those types of retirement packages today.

181 Mook, first, I don't CLAIM TO HAVE THE ANSWERS UNLIKE SOME BOMB THROWERS HERE IMPLY THAT THEY DO.

I'm not saying that SS is untouchable until others admit their complicity in the problems, just that it's simplistic and frankly dishonest to claim that dissolving SS BY ITSELF will solve all our problems and is somehow the root of our problems.

I particularly find repulsive and demagogic the attempt to contend that SS is the FAULT of those receiving it.

I believe that some here who complain the loudest about SS as being some moral wrong are members of a small group of people who make their money off the ups and downs of our financial system and who have benefited in the past by many similar 'schemes' but who, now that the well of capital has dried up, aren't making the amount of income they've become used to and so are looking for a convenient and relatively voiceless and powerless group (other than the financial manipulators of course) to either blame for the current insolvency and/or the ones to be 'punished' for our current situation.

Note that these Doomsday Chroniclers NEVER mention the borderline, financially risky and outright fraudulent actions of brokerage houses and banks in the loss of some $13 trillion of net worth over the last 4 years.

Most of that triggered by speculators in petroleum and the housing market. The high price of energy in 2008 uncovered the weakness of many known, questionable mortgages which turned into a cascade as the size and scope of this fiduciary sleight of hand and outright lies which caused the further erosion of the housing market was revealed.

Like financial disasters in the past we have found out how closely linked our economy is. Like a house constructed of cards or a game of pickup sticks, pull one seeming insignificant card or stick and suddenly the whole edifice collapses.

To blame those who were RELYING ON THE HONESTY OF THOSE IN AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBLE is to say the least suspect since NONE or FEW of those benefiting by SS were involved with the machinations at the top of the financial industry.

Also to declare that dissolving SS will some how be a win, ignores the reality of the current beneficiaries; WHERE, HOW, WHAT will they live on? Many are unable to work and unable to find work.

Until those who natter on about the moral wrongness of SS have an answer for that question, I think they should just shut up as they sound like some teenager who's parents have lost their job and the teenager's allowance has been cut. "Why didn't you see this coming?" "Why didn't you have a plan in case it did?" "How come I have to suffer because of decisions YOU made?" "My friends parents still get THEIR allowance". Wah, Wah, Wah.

Anyone who knows children knows they're the greediest, most self-centered humans and those who whine and thrash around and try to blame a particular group for our problems without including those who ACTUALLY DID CAUSE THIS PROBLEM are just older children and just as selfish and self-centered.

Before one elderly person is kicked to the curb, the banking system, the brokerage houses, the commodity speculators and the politicians involved should be investigated and fined for any illegalities that they committed in fact that resulted in the collapse of our economic system. If some of their actions are not technically illegal but contributed to our collapse (and theirs another on the way folks!) then those actions should be made illegal.

People talk here about 'sharing the pain'.

Fine. Let me see some bank execs and some brokers and some politicians in jail and/or fined big and then I'll believe we're 'sharing the pain'.

182 Jake, you're the one throwing shturd bombs with your completely unsupported age discrimination assertions. Look in the mirror before posting another ALL CAPS incoherent rant, complete with colorful adjectives such as "repulsive and demagogic".

183

"Mook,

I see this government workers complaint a lot but when I looked it up, government workers since Reagan's time have been on SS and they retire at the same age as everyone else."

Look again, Federal workers, along with state and local govt. workers get a very, very lavish pension (which can be paid after only 20 yrs of work in many cases) along with any SS that they've accrued. Federal workers, depending on the branch, can receive 80% of their highest earning yrs after 30 years of service, which means early 50's for many of them who started out of college. In some cases, fewer years of service are required to max out on their pension. Are you seriously disputing this?

184

"Also to declare that dissolving SS will some how be a win,"

SS is a drain, because on average, recipients take out more than they contributed. I, for one, would be a huge loser should SS dissolve, because I've contributed a lot of money into the system for a lot of years. Unless you can produce a quote, I don't believe here has made such a sweeping statement that dissolving SS would be a "win" as you claim. The creation of SS has, overall, hurt this country. It's created a monstrous govt. bureaucracy and made more people dependent on govt to pay them more than they contributed even including compounded interest. Those who retired in the early 90's paid in at 3% for their first $12k of earnings for many of their peak earning yrs whereas I contribute 6% of $106k matched by my employer. Inflation doesn't begin to explain that discrepancy.. Since many of us have paid into SS for a lot of years, the question is how to dissolve SS, while compensating, at least in part, those who contributed in for so many years. 

185 Mook: (what an apropos handle!) you're making 160k and complaining about how much you contribute? Look at my comment under 'Whiny teenagers complaining' and take a look at yourself in the mirror. You're doing so, so much better than the majority of people on SS. (more power to you, I have no problem with folks making money but a part of civilization requires that one CONTRIBUTE to the general welfare for the good of all. And yes, not starving granny in her old age is good for all.)

Unsubstantiated age discrimination claims? How do know they're unsubstantiated? According to the EEOC there were 24,000 resolutions of complaints of age discrimination last year. As age discrimination is very difficult to prove due to the information required is usually not readily available to a victim (unless they have an inside source or are able to afford an attorney and/or hire a detective) complaints are usually only filed when the actions are so egregious and obvious what the guilty employer is/was doing. I would guess that the real rate is at least 5 times that of those that actually complain. It is unconscionable for anyone to be discriminated against for a job no matter what the reasons.

Also apparently you need your eyes checked (or your computer) as my comment WAS NOT all caps. (See there what I did was EMPHASIZE what I was saying rather than bolding the words or using italics.) Sorry if that offended the grammar/internet concern troll within you.

I'm gladdened by your understanding of the words I used but to classify them as 'colorful' is questionable. The words expressed what I wanted to say. What's so colorful about that? Or is it that my word usage struck you as persuasive which is a threat to your simplistic world view; "SS takes my money. Taking my money is bad. SS is bad and anyone receiving SS is evil and should be kicked to the  curb."?

A mook you have named yourself and a mook you have shown yourself to be. Cheers!

186 Oops a little dyslexia there folks. Mook makes only 106k not 160k that I put in may previous comment.

regrets.

187

"Taking my money is bad. SS is bad and anyone receiving SS is evil and should be kicked to the  curb."?

Who said that? Oh yeah, nobody. I also never said that I make $160k/yr., just so you know. Not that facts matter to you.

"A mook you have named yourself and a mook you have shown yourself to be."

Yeah, congrats jakee308, you've shown who you are too. I AM JAKEEE308 AND IF YOU OPPOSE SOCIAL SECURITY DEFICIT IMBALANCES U R DISCRIMINATING AGAINST OLD PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE CAN'T GET A JOB. I NEED TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT MYSELF SO I MAKE A LOT OF DUMB STATEMENTS AND I LIE A LOT

188 You did say you made 106k. I wrote a correction in the next post. I guess you were so eager to call me names and stuff that you couldn't be bothered to read any further.

Mook, you are a mook, a dumbass and someone who can't argue their way out of a paper bag so you attack the individual. Let's see, what other group of people do that? oh yeah liberal trolls and fiscons who'd rather see old people starving than have to pay 6% of their ill deserved income towards aiding others less fortunate. You're the reason conservatives (if you actually are one) have a bad rep about assisting those in need  so mook, AMF cause you're not worth any further conversation.

Ignore MOOK mode ON.