1 Our very own Ben who noted during the live blog a mysterious absence of certain topics.

I have been screaming about the avoiding of certain topics since the first debates. It seems like these debates have ALL been an exercise in gotcha questions for Republicans in general and some of the candidates in particular.

I haven't seen the transcripts yet, but did a single AGW question crop up last night? Those are the things the base would like to know stances on but no questions have been asked.

2 Where is everybody?

3 If Perry or Romney started to score too many points it seemed like inevitably the next question went to Ron Paul or Jon Huntsman who could be counted on to be buffoonish and attack traditional conservative stances.

This is one of the major reasons why both of those marhinal idiots need to drop out, or the other candidates demand that they not be in the debates (may add some of the other < 5% candidates to that list as well).

4 Quite disappointed in Perry's performance last night.  Romney came on very strong, unexpectedly so...he didn't even seem robotic.

Perry's response on Social Security thrilled me on one level and terrified me on an electability level.  It's not a death sentence -- beware those who are acting as it is -- but it can become one unless he pivots, FAST.  His global warming and Texas-record answers were just...embarrassing, honestly.  Dude didn't seem prepared to defend his record!  WTF??  Debate prep, people!

The lack of questions about the economy, jobs, or spending was disgraceful.  And really the biggest story of the night, IMO.  What a bunch of fucking hacks.

5 Oh, and Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

6

Excellent analysis Drew M.

 

 

7 Perry said flat out that no one currently receiving benefits would be impacted by his SS reform. It was the first thing he said on the subject. Did everyone miss that?

8 >>>I haven't seen the transcripts yet, but did a single AGW question crop up last night? Those are the things the base would like to know stances on but no questions have been asked.

Yes, several.  It was, in fact, Perry's most terrible moment. (Drew discusses it in his post -- are you Breitbarting it today?)

Good to see you again.

9 OT: Be safe all you NEPA morons around the Susquehanna River.  My family has already evacuated.  Be well, be safe.

10 He also needs to make it crystal clear that he's not talking about messing with Social Security for anyone on or near it. He's in big trouble if he can't make that argument.

Me thinks you better review the tape of his answer.  Did ya go pee or something?  It was the first thing he said.

11

I am not going to be on this thread long, since I can smell flame war, but I do have two things to say:

1) Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure; and

2) HereÂ’s the point: debates within Republican primaries ought to be about informing Republican voters what candidates believe, and why.

This is why I think the debates preceding the primaries should be staged by the parties themselves, or by local groups, and the newsies can sit on their hands to ask questions during the Presidential and VP debates after the primary season is over.  You'd get a heck of a lot more out of a candidate debate staged by the RNC than you got out of that travesty last night.  And if the networks wanted to act pissy and refuse to televise them, fine.  There's always the internet.

12 I'm not worried about Perry. Let him get acclimated, (so to speak). We've still got 14 months to go.

Frankly, whoever wins the nomination will have my vote. I don't even feel like I'll have to hold my nose this time.

13 Vic,

It's good to have you back.  Take it easy and follow doctor's orders or the morons will kick your old ass. 

14 Here's the transcript.

Caution: It's a NYT link. But it's all transcript, no commentary.

http://tinyurl.com/3l6sa52

15 I didn't see the debate, and probably won't bother (I largely believe debates are for those who haven't made up their minds, yet, and I pretty well have).  That said, I'd hoped that Perry would do better than I'm hearing he did.  Oh, well.  There's always the next debate, and the next.  Two more in the next 3 weeks, yes?

Mostly, I need the Republicans to stick on message (I don't care which one): Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

The answer to AGW questions?: "I don't think we can be too concerned with a few theoretically possible tenths of a degree when people are losing their homes.  We need to get the economy moving again, and then we can worry about any possible human-made climate impact."

The answer to Gay Marriage questions?: "I'm not sure that our Federal Government should be worrying about that right now, when people are losing their jobs and the economy is on its death-bed."

The answer to Evolution v/ Intelligent Design?: "The Federal Government shouldn't be wasting time telling local school districts how they should teach science when the deficit is over 14 trillion dollars.  We need to focus on reducing the deficit, reducing the debt, and getting America back on the path to prosperity."

See?  Not hard.

16 All the others....remember that week Michele Bachmann was the hot ticket? That was weird, right?

I still will take MB over the other candidates after Perry.

17 I dunno Drew....

it is like the GOP has some kind of Charlie Brown costume fetish and dreams about finally kicking the damn ball...

Bambi never had to face limbaugh and MSNBC is every bit the partisan that Limbaugh is....

we are always allowing the newsies to control what we talk about to the point that they are in essence defining us more than we define ourselves on the first handshake with the moderate mushy middle....

truth be told not ONE of the debate victims of MSNBC pulled off reagan's trick of turning the questions back on the host, and talking past the media gotchas to the viewer.....

Newt came closest but there's no way in hell he can win.

18 This was the first question of the night--

Governor Perry, we're going to begin with you. You're the newcomer here on stage. You probably saw this coming a mile away. You have touted your state's low taxes, the lack of regulation, tough tort reform as the recipe for job growth in the Lone Star State, but Texas ranks last among those who have completed high school, there are only eight other states with more living in poverty, no other state has more working at or below the minimum wage. So is that the kind of answer all Americans are looking for?

No agenda there though, huh?

19 >>>Perry said flat out that no one currently receiving benefits would be impacted by his SS reform. It was the first thing he said on the subject. Did everyone miss that?

The problem is that it sounded like mealy-mouthed half-hearted, half-verbalized pro forma bullshit before he moved on to what he REALLY believed in, which is that it's a "ponzi scheme" and a "monstrous lie" (look for that last phrase in particular to get repeated ad nauseum in a general election, shorn of the "to our kids" context).  It just seems terribly obvious that his heart wasn't in calmly and thoroughly reassuring seniors that they weren't going to get touched (before moving on to the "we need to reform" bit).  Rather, he sort of muttered that bit as tepid prelude before getting fired up about what he REALLY believes in.

You see the optics problem here?

20 I almost feel our candidates should go Wasserface-Schlitz when questioned by the MFM. Regardless of the question, answer the question you want to answer.

21

and if Perry turns out to be the second coming of teh Fred, I'm going to need a straight jacket.

Oh fuck me sideways, don't even think that out loud.  You realize that I will blame you, Drew, if that turns out to be the case.

Here, lemme pour kerosene on the flame war, is Newt electable?  That's not (totally) a bitchy comment, it's an actual question.  Is Newt electable?  I would hold my nose and vote for him in the general, of course, but I'm really not sure how he'd play on the mass stage. 

 

22 Vic! Good to see you here, buddy. You're in my thoughts.

I have a transcript. But it's from the Slimes. Let me know if you want it linked.

23 I liked the canadian news readers tie, purple and blue.  Signicant.

24 No love for Herman Cain? The guy was pretty solid except for the stupid 9-9-9 pizza selling point for his otherwise sane and detailed, for a debate, tax reform proposal. Not that I think he could win due to a lack of national exposure, funding, and a few of the wacky things he's said outside of the debates, but he was well spoken last night.

Bachman did horribly and failed to answered questions. Ron Paul is the crazy uncle falling for the MFM bait to attack others. Huntsman is another Olympia Snowe. Gingrich called Brian Williams out for being a hack and a waterboy for Barry and it was funny to watch Williams be uneasy the rest of the night because of it. Santorum, just doesn't seem to connect, though generally well spoken. Romney waffled Social Security and Romneycare, but debated well otherwise. Perry didn't deliver consistently and his body language was all over the place. Yet he still landed many good punches on Obama and distinguished himself from Romney on a few issues.

25

He also needs to make it crystal clear that he's not talking about messing with Social Security for anyone on or near it. He's in big trouble if he can't make that argument.

 

As a practical political matter, this is probably right.   In America ca. 2012 you probably can't get elected saying you might have to cut benefits, not just for youngsters who are still decades away from getting Social Security, but for the old coots who are on the cusp or are already receiving monthly checks.  

As a matter of practical economics, however, I don't think you can get to a solvent system anytime soon -- and we need to get there soon -- without cutting benefits for current recipients, or at the very least limiting COLAs and probably (unfortunately) means-testing at the high-income/high-wealth end.   And I don't see why you can't raise the retirement age for people under the age of, say, 60, rather than the current proposals for people under 55 or even under 50.   Believe me, people who are 60 or older are going to have to change their expectations for retirement anyway; they might as well change their expectations for Social Security.

Finally, it's also a moral issue.   The generations currently on Social Security or the baby-boomers nearing it are the people who ran up huge deficits and handed younger generations a national debt that they'll have to repay over their lifetimes.   Is it really moral to say that, in addition to leaving you an impoverished nation, we also want you to bear all the burden of returning this Ponzi scheme to solvency?   Everybody should have skin in this game.   

Maybe I'm in the minority (probably so), but I'll vote for the first guy who says, "No, I can't promise that I'll protect Social Security exactly as it is for current recipients or people nearing retirement age.   We may all need to make sacrifices to make our country great again, and we can't just exempt certain classes of people from that shared sacrifice."

 

  

26 Mr. President, what is the most awesome thing about being the president of the United States of America?

27 I have a transcript. But it's from the Slimes. Let me know if you want it linked.

Posted by: lu at September 08, 2011 10:59 AM (pLTLS)

Wasn't that your link in the headlines thread? If so it wanted a registration password.

28 Everyone does realize there are more than ten debates to go, right? Marathon; not a sprint.

IOW - no need to freak out about anything. You won't make it to 11/2012 otherwise

29
  Debate was a great fishing expedition for talking points for Dems to use. Not worth wasting an eyeball or eardrum on, save for Perry's AGW stumble.

   Run, Sarah.

30 NBC News keeps their non-white journalists in the back of the bus.

31 I found one without registration.

It will take you to The Times though.

32 In short, bad format, not a stellar night or an awful one for Perry and if Perry turns out to be the second coming of teh Fred, I'm going to need a straight jacket.

Or a strait jacket.

33 I love Herman Cain's DEMEANOR -- his manner of speaking just 'works' for me on a gut level -- but I don't really think that anything he's saying qualifies him to be President. (And he's said a lot that DISqualifiies him, unfortunately.) 

That said, he'd make a great Senator.  And if one of those seats ever opens up, it'll probably be his for the taking.

34 So, is anyone going to watch Captain Clusterf*ck tonight? 

35

Run, Sarah.

God No

36 I'd love to see Herman as the next governor of Georgia.

37 The Republicans want to play kick the field goal with Lucy, fuck 'em.

38 Fred Perry.  Sigh...

39

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 08, 2011 11:03 AM (UOM4

nope

40 I understand the political ramifications of talking about Social Security.  However, we're long past the point where we need to start talking about Social Security.  There is no more room to play kick the can with this.  If we don't talk about it, who will?

41

Agreed almost in toto. Perry was not as good as I had hoped, but he finished strong - that's gotta be good for something. Newt is growing on me - he has a firmer and deeper grasp of constitutional and governance issues than anyone else on the stage.

Perry/Gingrich 2012? That could work, and I would love how liberal heads would explode with another strong VP in office instead of a placeholder like Biden.

And f-uck MSNBC and it's 'moderators'.

By the way,

Obama is a Stuttering Clusterfuck Of A Miserable Failure.

42 Personally, I don't care about debates.  Most of these people have records.  Talk about that.  Talk about the ability to get things done (either in government or out.) 

In my mind that should remove Santorum, Bachmann and Paul, none of whom has ever even made it to Congressional leadership positions.  Then, if you must have a debate, get rid of the moderators asking the questions altogether.  Go round robin and let the candidates pose a question to another candidate and give them time to answer it.  Then we can judge the candidates not only on their answers but on their questions as well.  Sure, most of them would likely have asked questions of Perry but he's the one most in need of vetting from the perspective of someone not living in my great state.

43

The AGW question was a trap..... A trap that Perry did not fall into.

If he had named scientists who had published against the AGW theory, then liberal moderators would have simply countered with more scientists that have published in favor of AGW.

Perry did the right thing in declaring that the whole subject is not settled.

44 Regarding MSNBC, the donks refuse to have anything to do with Fox hosting any debates so there probably wouldn't be any negative to telling the Tweety network to FOAD.  That said it seems like the candidates did a good job so they can use this as a "we're not afraid of these dipshit cocksuckers unlike our opponents" kind of way.

45 It's not a death sentence -- beware those who are acting as it is -- but it can become one unless he pivots, FAST.

I disagree.  He needs to hold to what he said.  If people want to believe in the fairytale that Social Security will live on forever and ever, let's not be a party to the delusion like Mitt the fucktastic cocksucker is pledging to do for votes.

Because the system will fail eventually, and we'd be much better off with our hands clean when it does.

46 What in the world are the GOP candidates thinking letting MSNBC and The Democratic Daily Newsletter (aka Politico) host these things? This was nothing more than an effort to get as many soundbites of Republicans knocking each other as possible.

Actually, I disagree.  The moderators asked known Dem talking points and it allowed the voters to see how our guys (and gal) will withstand the barrage.  We need ways to weed out our candidates.  This is one.

I think all our candidates did very, very well last night against these questions.

47 You see the optics problem here?

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 08, 2011 10:58 AM (LdfzV)

But he got it out there; it's on record. He's got 14 months to polish it and push it. Remember the debate format, he had limited time to say what needed to be said and make his point.

I take exception to the notion that he didn't say anything about it at all. Hell, by some accounts, you'd think he said "fuck the seniors!"

48 It's worked for them in the past, it could work for him now.

Except that big government louts are their base. I'm sorry but this is a disqualifier for me. I get that a lot of people around here are on the anyone but Obama bandwagon, but I won't support/vote/whatever for a GOP nominee who got there being the champion of the SS ponzi and universal health care. There's just no point.

49 So, is anyone going to watch Captain Clusterf*ck tonight? 

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 08, 2011 11:03 AM (UOM4

I plan on listening to Tammy Bruce's "Mystery Science Theater" coverage of it.

50 #35. Jane, hell no I'm not watching, and especially not up against NFL football.  Or, for that matter, Billy the Exterminator if that's all that's on. 

51 The Republicans deserve some credit for debating on the enemy territory of MSNBC. Didn't the Democrats refuse to debate on Fox News in 2008, due to its "bias"?

52 Posted by: lu at September 08, 2011 11:02 AM (pLTLS)

It is asking me to sign in??????

Can anyone else follow this link with out a pw?

53

I'm on the Perry bandwagon and I agree with Drew's analysis.

He sounded awful on one or two questions. The death penalty answer was very good, but that's a niche issue.

He needs to bone up on AGW, Social Security and Jobs answers as those are going to be the issues he'll be questioned on most in the coming debates.

I personally liked the South Carolina debates. I'm a big fan of letting people express their ideas in full rather than in 30 second sound bites.

I cannot stress this enough, Why does the GOP still participate in debates hosted by cable and network news organizations?? WHY?

They've never been fair to you and they never will be. All the moderators are democrats at best and extreme leftists at worst.

The GOP should set up its own debates and offer the rights to broadcast those debates to networks.  We cannot keep trying to kick the football, Lucy will pull it away everytime.

54 I'd still rather have our bench than have to be one of the snopes backing the SCOAMF.

55 All those questions about jobs and the economy are probably best left to the cables.

56

Posted by: Captain Hate at September 08, 2011 11:07 AM (RKzwg)

will Tammy be having an orgasam when she plays a Palin speech on air as well? hehe

57 Winners?  I won, of course!  Re-election is almost assured.  Chew on that, wingnuts!

58

Also, re the moderators:   all you have to do is consider the entirely imaginary, Cloud Cuckoo-land scenario of a Democratic Party presidential debate hosted by Fox News where the moderators are Brit Hume and Sean Hannity, and the after-debate panel discussion included Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Ann Coulter, and Mark Steyn.    And, for the designated affirmative action Hispanic immigration question, they bring out Marco Rubio.  

Can't imagine that?   That's why Republicans should never have agreed to this idiotic format on MSNBC. 

59 I thought Perry did OK especially since he was the one attacked over and over by the so-called moderators. He was more honest than Romney in his answers. I don't trust Romney on anything after that abomination he came up with in Mass for healthcare that became the model for Obamacare and one which he refuses to acknowledge was a mistake. He cannot admit failure. Perry doesn't seem to have that problem, admitting the HPV vaccine mandate was an overreach. If you want real change, Perry is the only way to go right now of the declared candidates. You won't get it from Mitt. If you want more of the same, he's your go to guy and Rove's as well.

60

"He also needs to make it crystal clear that he's not talking about messing with Social Security for anyone on or near it. He's in big trouble if he can't make that argument."

--------

He did......How did you miss that?

Perry looked right into the camera and declared that any reforms would not affect the current recipients of Social Security..... Or the people who were 'about to be on it'......(paraphrasing here, don't remember the exact quote) 

61 ABBO

62 Erickson had an interesting piece this morning.

This is how the SEC defines a Ponzi Scheme --

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk.

I for one appreciate a candidate who will call it what it is.

63

Can't imagine that?   That's why Republicans should never have agreed to this idiotic format on MSNBC. 

 

 

I hereby insert my name as a future moderator.  Resist we much!

64

ABO except Romney. Romney confirmed that last night.The worst question from williams was basically this I think, "governor Perry, white people are richer then black people in your state. Why do you hate black people?".

Okit was basically that. Politico and MSDNC also held Nancy up as a prop. Bless her heart but it didnt look like she knew what was going on.

65 Trotting out the Latino guy to ask an immigration question was the first instance of real actual racism I have personally witnessed in years.

66 Jeff B. Well speaking of optics..... I think that's where he emphasized his point well. Here is what he said from the transcript: PERRY: Well, I think any of us that want to go back and change 70 years of what's been going on in this country is probably going to have a difficult time. And rather than spending a lot of time talking about what those folks were doing back in the '30s and the '40s, it's a nice intellectual conversation, but the fact is we have got to be focussed on how we're going to change this program. And people who are on Social Security today, men and women who are receiving those benefits today, or individuals at my age that are in line pretty quick to get them, they don't need to worry about anything. But I think the Republican candidates are talking about ways to transition this program, and it is a monstrous lie. It is a Ponzi scheme to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old today, you're paying into a program that's going to be there. Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right. But it is interesting what he did while he said that. He looked right at the camera and through it to the audience at home and made them that promise. I agree it's a narrow swing bridge to tell the audience that the government has essentially been lying to them, and then to look them dead in the eye like that and make that kind of promise. But I happen to think that it highlighted his willingness to dare to tell the truth. It's extremely hard to do that in an eight way debate-so it *shocked* me when he looked right to the audience at home. Now....granted I think lazy Journalists-that simply read the transcript and are relying on the post debate spin doctor's of the other candidates are spreading the- Perry didn't reassure senior's contagion-like a wild fire....

67 I agree that Perry didn't hit it out of the park, which I would have liked, but perhaps he was expecting an actual debate, rather than a Perry pile-on.  Granted, he should have come out swinging but maybe now he will realize what a front runner is up against. 

68 Hmm, that's strange. Sorry Vic it came up for me w/no registration prompt.

69

will Tammy be having an orgasam when she plays a Palin speech on air as well? hehe

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 08, 2011 11:08 AM (yAor6)

Judging from past performances she usually gets fed up with the SCoaMF's bullshit and lies early on and throws in a Palin clip.  For the record, even though I'm a Tammy and Palin fanboi, I could easily support Perry or anybody other than Huntsman and DR RON!!!11!!

70 I liked the tweet I saw last night that said something along the lines of Marco Rubio tonight deciding to which candidate he'd be second in command.  Damned if I can find it, tho, too many tweets in front of it.

And please, TX and PA morons,and ALL others, be safe.  Praying for you all.

Time for me to get to work.

71 Oh, and I thought the way they handled the immigration questioning was offensive to all involved.

72 Buffoons.. yeah. that's why polls consistently show RP on the top.. Your rainbow colored lipstick is staining perry's cock..

73 I rest my case, that we should have insisted that Obama speak his mumbo-ja-ja-ja-jumbo prior to this debate, thus insuring that our candidates could completely ignore the questions asked by the baiters and fire salvo after salvo at the da-da-da-dud in chief.

74 By the way, Fox is hosting the next debate and they're asking viewers to submit the questions.

75 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

76 OK, if anyone was looking for a fighter to take on Obama, they got it with Rick Perry last night.  He is the front runner. 

I got me a little Perry fever last night.

77 Flapjackmaka --

What state do you live in?

78 One of the marginal candidates needs to step up and be a goon. The GOP needs to gather some hard opposition research on the moderators and bomb the hell out of them live, on stage, until these assholes learn to behave themselves.

79

Jon Huntsman is a snively, creepy little fuck.

And Ron Paul still sounds like Walter Brennan when he gets all fired up.

Also I agree, Perry seemed ill prepared, and fumbly.  And MSNBC jagoffs can kiss my ass, way up where it's brown.

 

My .02

80

To those giving an attaboy to Perry on Social Security, I will agree that I'm glad he called it what it is, but that's not enough.

You need to explain to the uninformed and apolitical why that is.

We mock Ron Paul because he makes huge claims as statements of fact and then assumes everyone understand.

Sound money is good, Gold is good, getting rid of FEMA is good, Open borders are good, etc etc.

Fine, I may be willing to buy some of those, but explain to me why it's good.

What is sound money, what is our current system and why is it better?  (many here may know the answer but the vast majority of americans do not)

As for Perry on SS, sure I'll buy it's a Ponzi scheme, but you need to explain why it's a ponzi scheme. You don't need to go into minutiae, but explain how demographics, IOUs, interest rates, SSDI, etc etc.

You can't command people to accept positions, you need to lead them there.

I hope he works on this before the next debate and on the campaign trail.

81

76 By the way, Fox is hosting the next debate and they're asking viewers to submit the questions.

 

Governor Perry, why is Obama a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?

82

I've never disliked Romney and, frankly, he's stepped up his game. Yes. Masscare is a yoke around his neck, but it would not stop me from voting for him. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Yet, Perry is still my first pick.

I hope the two of them don't spend too much time tearing each other apart because they would make one hell of a team.

83 "HereÂ’s the point: debates within Republican primaries ought to be about informing Republican voters what candidates believe, and why. " What is so fucking difficult to understand about this simple concept?  Why the hell is the GOP letting any MSM outfit handle debates?  I want to know what the candidates think, not listen to some fucking liberals play Stump the Republicans.

84 I hate to say it, but Sarah can't win. I have my doubts about Perry and I'm what you all hate a middle of the road voter. I backed McCain last time but there are limits people.

85 snivelly?  Yeah.  I don't spell that much.

86

 >>>The generations currently on Social Security or the baby-boomers nearing it are the people who ran up huge deficits...

Couldn't agree more. But you can't get elected to anything even sniffing along those lines. Sad but true.

>>>Because the system will fail eventually, and we'd be much better off with our hands clean when it does.

Oh they're already writing the history of all these entitlements and we're going to take the blame no matter what sort of alarms we're setting off. We've been pointing at the GSE's (Freddie and Fannie) for years, yelling about that trainwreck and we still get blamed for it.

87 Maybe I am the only one, but I found it interesting that Jose Diaz-Balart, the Telemundo guy, is the brother of two republican congressmen from Florida, Lincoln and Mario Diaz-Balart.

88 What state do you live in?

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 08, 2011 11:13 AM (LdfzV)

PA. But im attending college in VA

89

By the way, Fox is hosting the next debate and they're asking viewers to submit the questions.

Allowing voters to submit questions is a great idea. Allowing them to vote as to which are asked, is not. Look for the Ronulans to be out in force on this one.

90

To those giving an attaboy to Perry on Social Security, I will agree that I'm glad he called it what it is, but that's not enough.

You need to explain to the uninformed and apolitical why that is.

Yeah, but a debate (if you can call it that, when there are 8 participants) is not the place to do that.  Do it at campaign stops, in op-eds, and in adds.

91 >>>PA. But im attending college in VA

Then you're an asshole if you don't for whoever the eventual GOP nominee is.  Sorry, but it's true.

92 As for Perry on SS, sure I'll buy it's a Ponzi scheme, but you need to explain why it's a ponzi scheme. You don't need to go into minutiae, but explain how demographics, IOUs, interest rates, SSDI, etc etc.

I do agree with that.  Which is another reason to jettison the bullshit debate format we've allowed our candidates to get locked into.  Even a guy like Paul Ryan would have trouble explaining that in 30 seconds while being constantly interrupted by media jackoffs.

93

Allowing voters to submit questions is a great idea. Allowing them to vote as to which are asked, is not. Look for the Ronulans to be out in force on this one.

 

 

Congressman Paul, why are you so awesome?

94 82 Ben,

every 9th and 10th grader in an economics class in the nation knows it is a scam....

even the boomers know it is a scam they just want paid, fine....pay them but let people below a certain age bleed off....

an assertion of a self-evident but all the deluded fact is in fact a fact....

I cannot assert the sun revolves around the Earth and have it taken on faith....

RONPAUL111!!!! can't assert that instant resumption of the gold standard will fix the nation because it is a complex matter....

I can however call a spade a spade vis a vis social security and have the same level of self-evidence that people must breathe to live.

95 i half watched and half listened..... i'll vote for any of them except paul.....and huntsman....and if anyone else joins the race i may end up voting for them.....perry did fine.....and if the seniors heard him say "fuck the seniors" then the "seniors" should be fucked.....

96 Then you're an asshole if you don't for whoever the eventual GOP nominee is.  Sorry, but it's true.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 08, 2011 11:17 AM (LdfzV)

Then myname is shirley mcAsshole. Romney no way, no how.

97 For those of you unable to make time to hear the historic Jobs Speech of or unprecedented president tonight, I have taken the liberty of summarizing its main points here:

Green jobs
It's Bush's fault
High Speed Rail
I killed bin Laden
It's Congress' fault
Corporate jet owners are taking food out of the mouths of hungry children
Just a little more spending should do it
Tea Party extremists
Those Japanese tsunamis are ruining everything
Some will say [insert something that nobody says here]
I killed bin Laden with my bare hands
Investment in infrastructure
It's Bush's fault
The ATMs are stealing all our jobs
Rich people must pay their fair share
It's Bush's fault
Did you know that I killed bin Laden?

98 I'm really stunned they went on MSNBC to begin with. I bet the assholes at NBC told them the organizers it would be on NBC or CNBC and pulled a last minute switch.

And I agree with the Newt analysis. This is what he was made for. He really was the best at this debate. Its just his tendency to go go for the random off-the-wall liberal idea that freaks me out. But if Perry implodes he's becoming my number 2. Mitt seems likeable enough, but his baggage is much worse than Newt's. Newt really does seem to have an awesome command of the issues, facing us, and more importantly for me, a true understanding of the underlying principles and philosophies. I'd love to see Newt as Perry's press secretary. I know it'll never happen, but can you imagine those daily breifings?

I really wish someone had mentioned the CERN results when the AGW shit came up. We were screaming at the screen at that point. 

99 That's why I don't watch this shit.  It's a beauty pageant.  A performance.  Debates were fine when there were limited resources to find where a candidate stood on the issues.  Now there are plenty.  Only a total fucking idiot would have their mind changed about a candidate because of watching a debate.  But I guess that's how those fucktards in the middle make a decision.

100 He was more honest than Romney in his answers. I don't trust Romney .. I think this is the kind of thing that Romney is setting himself up for-with this apparent "win". He might have won the debate- but lost the war. It looks like Romney had the better post debate team and the press being uber Liberals seem more than willing to obfuscate what Perry actually said. Now Mitt's crew didn't ask the Liberal media to do their dirty work -but that's sure what it looks like. Amongst the Republican electorate the Liberal Media has cooties- and it's like we caught Mitt Romney swapping spit with Helen Thomas after the debate. Eeeeewwwwww!

101

101 That's why I don't watch this shit.  It's a beauty pageant. 

 

 

 

I'm ready for my close up, Mr Williams!

102

The debate cycle will be very damaging to Perry.

He's 61, he's never been any good at it, and that's not going to change magically all the sudden. 

Its a real dilemma for him.  If Perry is himself, then what happened last night will continuously repeat itself.  He's introducing himself to the American people at large, so that's not good.  If he plays it safe, that's quite Mittish, so why wouldn't people choose the real Mitt? 

If he asserts himself as frontrunner, he damages himself.  If he blends in, he fades.

The debates are MSM shows; candidates do them at their peril because they lose narrative control completely.  Its all gotchas and post-debate spin by media hostiles.

As a Palin supporter, I've argued long and hard she should skip as many of these as possible, even though she tends to perform quite well.  Its just not worth the risk, especially so early.

Why did Rick get in so soon, exposing himself early to a format he knew he was no good at?

Same goes for the general election.  The Republican nominee should consider doing no debates at all rather than lose narrative control of their message on the eve of the vote. 

The media hostiles will proclaim Obama the runaway winner, no matter how much he may be, as you say here, a SCOAMF.

103 92 Allen G,

how can even the dumbest non true believer socialist look at even a 15 second gleaning of the social security situation and not see the DOOM!?

if a person cannot grasp,

"it eats up 13% of our wagebase removing that money from investment potential and into the political general fund and the programs inflow and outlay are growing ever more inverse" what can you do?

104 Reading Perry's answer on AGW, it doesn't look that bad to me.  Althouse has a transcript in her very good post on the anti-science myth:

Well, I do agree that there is -- the science is -- is not settled on this. The idea that we would put Americans' economy at -- at -- at jeopardy based on scientific theory that's not settled yet, to me, is just -- is nonsense. I mean, it -- I mean -- and I tell somebody, I said, just because you have a group of scientists that have stood up and said here is the fact, Galileo got outvoted for a spell.

But the fact is, to put America's economic future in jeopardy, asking us to cut back in areas that would have monstrous economic impact on this country is not good economics and I will suggest to you is not necessarily good science. Find out what the science truly is before you start putting the American economy in jeopardy.Now, that's just not anti-science. Perry resists signing on to the opinion of the experts who portray themselves as the scientific consensus, but he didn't say he "clearly doesn't want to study [climate change] any further," which is the way Chris Matthews characterized his remarks. Perry said he wanted accurate science and more science — especially when it is the basis for proposals that would have a "monstrous economic impact."

Citing statistics showing success improving air quality in Texas, Perry says:
That's the way you need to do it, not by some scientist somewhere saying, "Here is what we think is happening out there." The fact of the matter is, the science is not settled on whether or not the climate change is being impacted by man to the point where we're going to put America's economics in jeopardy.That's not anti-science. That is a practical man setting a high burden of proof about the degree to which science must be "settled" where the effect on the economy is severe. You may disagree on the question of how settled the science is, but that doesn't make him anti-science.

105 It is the case that there are some things that are absolutely true that a Presidential candidate may not say whether or not he or she strongly believes it or not. I won't bother to go into those here but I am sure everyone can think of at least one item that this accurately describes. I think that the future of Social Security being in jeopardy is no longer in that category, though it has been in the past. Used to be the only thing you could say is what Romney said, we are going to make sure it is exactly like it is forever and ever. But I think that enough people have figured out that it isn't the case, and to say so turns voters off - maybe not the majority of them, but enough to make a difference. Polling does say that a majority of people have the opinion that there *is* a fiscal crisis. Politicians need to act as if they are aware that there is a crisis and that they would take significant action to change course. Papering it over, kicking the can down the road, options that are no longer relevant. I was a wobbly on Romney being my candidate - he lost me by not only refusing to consider action on the Social Security front, but also using the same line of attack against another Republican that Democrats will. I am still not on the Perry train, call me undecided, but I know that from here on out Perry is going to be asked "Karl Rove and Mitt Romney say...." Bah. If we are too squeamish to say that unsustainable things are unsustainable, we get what we deserve.

106 Romney came on very strong, unexpectedly so...he didn't even seem robotic.

He just had an oil change and a tune up.

107
   I'd be okay voting either Palin or Perry at this point. No nose holding required. As far as Romney--nope, it'd be a write-in, then straight Republican down ticket. Unless we gain an unassailable majority nothing will change materially.

  Now it's back to rooting for the Cowboys, who  (imho) look to have a 7-9 season.   Yay.

108 Sorry for the formatting glitch.  You'll see some comments by Althouse interspersed with the Perry quotes. 

109 98,

thanks....remember the secret handshake for either Obamaville we wind up in together or the Gulag Bill Ayers finally gets to build....

it looks a lot like Barry scratching his nose.

110

>>>I do agree with that. Which is another reason to jettison the bullshit debate format we've allowed our candidates to get locked into. Even a guy like Paul Ryan would have trouble explaining that in 30 seconds while being constantly interrupted by media jackoffs.

I concur, sven makes that point as well.  A 30 second  format isn't condusive to intellegent discussion.

However, I would disagree with sven about most Americans knowing SS is a ponzi scheme given its current configuration. I would bet the vast majority do not know or even understand how it works.

As someone who writes checks for dozens of employees, I can tell you that most people don't even look at what is being deducted out of their check.

Apathy reigns in America and it has for some time. That's why I am a big advocate for the ending of withholding taxes. People need to see where the money is going , in what percentages and be forced to write a check to the government themselves.

Only then will they really understand what is going on.

111 Then you're an asshole if you don't for whoever the eventual GOP nominee is.  Sorry, but it's true.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 08, 2011 11:17 AM (LdfzV)

Excellent persuasive argument. I give you a B+.

112 I hate baseball so I only watch the ending of the World Series, and that's the way I treat these debates I'll watch the last one then I'll vote for Perry.

113 105 N,

as probably one of the biggest '08 Palin backers here in '08 if you think Sarah will do better..."good luck" a leading candidate cannot skip the debates without the chinese whisper campaign of "scared"...

and considering the press has been spoonfeeding the electorate bullshit about "speech"=s "leading" for about 5 years now....

114 Romney no way, no how.

I don't know if I go quite that far, but I can certainly see it on the horizon.

Look, we have (theoretically) two options here: pick someone who will actually fix things (or at least try) or not.  If we choose "not," then we may as well choose someone who will go ahead and take America off the cliff "Thelma & Louise" style, so we can go ahead and get the grief over and get to the rebuilding- and that's going to be the Democrat (sadly).

Now, I'm not sure that a vote for Romney is a vote for "not," (which is why I'm not quite to the 'not Romney' level), but if it looks like it is, come election time, I'm going to have to take a long-hard look at what I think is objectively better for my kids, and their (eventual) kids.

115 114. I am completely in agreeance, Nam Grunt! don't feel like I missed much last night at all

116 jeffb if sarah wins the nomination will you vote for her? i seem to recall you saying that you wouldn't and that your gf wouldn't and your gf's mom wouldn't and yes, i realize she isn't running...and i don't know if she will run...i think she won't but let's just say she does.....

117 I do hope Bachmann's poor performance last night convinced anyone still harboring hopes of her being at the top of the ticket that she is just not presidential material.  not even vice-presidential..

Romney was surprisingly good last night.. performance-wise, that is. 

Perry disappointed me.  And.. while being honest about his views on Social Security, being that blunt is only going to lose him votes and drive more moderates to Romney.

I mostly agree with Drew and others about the questions..  the worst was Brian William's to Perry:  "How do you sleep at night with all the prisoners you have to put to death, you monster you!!!!111!!"

118 Then you're an asshole if you don't for whoever the eventual GOP nominee is.  Sorry, but it's true.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 08, 2011 11:17 AM (LdfzV)

i'm with you, anyone who says otherwiuse - Obama thanks you for the support

119 and yes, i realize she isn't running...and i don't know if she will run...i think she won't but let's just say she does..... Posted by: phoenixgirl
.........
So, why bring it up?  just to start another fight?

120 perry response to the death row question was awesome..... Americans understand justice......

121 112 Ben,

I disagree I work in a business that has a healthy amount of young 20 somethings currently....

they ALL KNOW and they are not econ nerds by any stretch....

even the liberal kids know......

hell 75% of those that know understand that they are working under a defacto 7% or so paycut.....

maybe the best 30 second soundbite would be...."why are we so in love with a retirement plan that is not one in any legal sense of the word that taxes the poor hardest for lowest return on investment?"

122 and yes, i realize she isn't running...and i don't know if she will run...i think she won't but let's just say she does..... Posted by: phoenixgirl
.........
So, why bring it up?  just to start another fight?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 08, 2011 11:26 AM (f9c2L)

Ok, how about this then....Jeff B., will you vote for Bachmann if she's the nominee?

123

>>>...but also using the same line of attack against another Republican that Democrats will.

I'm not ready to buy that story quite yet. It isn't sourced and comes from Twitter via HuffPo. When Romney himself goes down that road, I'll get right in line to spit on his shoes.

 

124

if sarah wins the nomination will you vote for her?

I would

ABO

125 He should make it clear he is not going to mess with social security?  We need to mess with social security.

126 ...Aaaaaaannnnd the Sarah Krishna is back, this time as concern-troll. Previously, Rick Perry was dodging debates. But Teh Sarah would be wise to avoid them.

127 chitown no.....he's made his dislike for palin as a candidate widely know......if flapjackmaka is an asshole for not voting for the nomination....would jeff b be one if he didn't vote the nomination if it were sarah.......

128
file this post under: No shit, Sherlock.

129  I hate baseball so I only watch the ending of the World Series, and that's the way I treat these debates I'll watch the last one then I'll vote for Perry.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt

Fuckin' A.  I won't even watch the last one.  But I don't watch the World Series either.

130 I'm sure Perry's performance was due to lack of prep time because he was doing his job here in Texas with the fire situation.

He'll get better.  Just relax.  Romney is a cancer and has already peaked.  Perry will man up and overcome in the coming weeks.

131 Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 11:20 AM (AEIYh)

Well, with some, it's willful ignorance- and you'll probably never reach them.

But, with others, it's just that they've never bothered to think about it, and they have a (sadly misplaced) instinctive trust in Government.  There's also the incendiary nature of the phrase "Ponzi Scheme."  You're not just calling the other side wrong, but evil, and you'd better be able to back that up.

People who might agree with you that it's bad can be turned off if they think you're being overly-harsh with the opposition.

132 no.....he's made his dislike for palin as a candidate widely know......if flapjackmaka is an asshole for not voting for the nomination....would jeff b be one if he didn't vote the nomination if it were sarah....... Posted by: phoenixgirl
.......
Ok.. I missed that context..  fair question then.

IMHO, it would be traitorous to withhold your vote, no matter if Satan himself were the GOP candidate.

133 80
One of the marginal candidates needs to step up and be a goon. The GOP needs to gather some hard opposition research on the moderators and bomb the hell out of them live, on stage, until these assholes learn to behave themselves.   I think Newt fired that salvo very effectively last night when he confronted the moderators on their attempt to bait some infighting. Even AOHell was accusing him of being confrontational last night but he scored with the audience and me as well with his statements on that topic.

134 When Romney himself goes down that road, I'll get right in line to spit on his shoes.

Unfortunately, Romney's campaign is saying something pretty close to what the Dems always accuse us of wanting to do: 

What’s crazy, say gleefully incredulous Romney aides, is nominating a GOP candidate who thinks that “by any measure Social Security is a failure.”

“The Republican Party has to defend the position of the nominee,” said top Romney adviser Stuart Stevens. “Every House candidate that runs, every Senate candidate that runs, would have to run on the Perry plan to kill Social Security.”

135 chitown yes...and even though i say i wouldn't vote for paul or huntsman......i probably would.....but i sincerely doubt either will get the nomination.......

136

Let me get the thread movin;

Run Palin Run. Good for 100 comments

137 OK I don't want to look like a total Perry stoog because I am but I got this reaction at home last night, and I read a comment on line that agreed with it. Romney delineated himself well as the guy from Massachusetts -faster talking, salesman that could get all of the cash out of your wallet and that's good but- Perry was the everyman and more of the electorate might identify with him. Plus I really don't think there was time for Perry to go into the details of Social Security...what did they have like a minute to respond? I think that also goes to the AGW answer-is that really much of an issue with the Republican primary electorate? I think Perry gave a common sense answer to that. He essentially said he wouldn't do a known quantity-damage to the economy particularly in recessionary times for longterm unknown unresolved supposedly *scientific* hypotheticals. I think Perry might have cornered the pragmatist market right there.

138 broken glass, republican nominee, some crawling required

The SCOAMF must go.

139 Drew, this is pre-season campaigning and as such you want your ball team to face the worst offensive onslaught early and the harshest refereeing you can get to evaluate you talent. My take is Newt was the only one standing that knew how to play the game. The rest were stiff and uncertain (Perry, Bachman, Santorum), smarmy and condesending (Huntsman and Romney) or just fucking nutty (Paul). So make of it what you will this is the MSM and this is what our guys and gals have to face. So far only Newt knew how to fillet fish and turn tables.

140 >>>jeffb

>>>if sarah wins the nomination will you vote for her? i seem to recall you saying that you wouldn't and that your gf wouldn't and your gf's mom wouldn't

1.) You remember wrong.  I've always -- always -- said I would vote for Palin if she won the nomination.  Your move.

2.) Fuck you for constantly trying to drag my family into this, you nasty Palinista bint. 

141

>>“The Republican Party has to defend the position of the nominee,” said top Romney adviser Stuart Stevens. “Every House candidate that runs, every Senate candidate that runs, would have to run on the Perry plan to kill Social Security.”

 

If Romney goes down this road he won't get my support in any form other than a vote in the general elections. I won't put up signs, make phone calls, go door to door, bumper stickers, nothing.

 

142 Yes Fox is the next debate but they are no better.  Chris Wallace is just as bad as the liberal AH's on NBC.

They just brought on Romney's PR spokes-girl and asked her who won the debate.

WTF was the point of that? No agenda there huh?

143 I'll get you a straight jacket that's very comfortable, and has a pocket for an iPhone.

144 IMHO, it would be traitorous to withhold your vote, no matter if Satan himself were the GOP candidate.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 08, 2011 11:30 AM (f9c2L)

Satan > Mittens. Call me Benedict Arnold.

145

Let me get the thread movin;

Run Palin Run. Good for 100 comments

Which is cooler:  1)  Palin shooting wolves from a helicopter or 2)  Perry shooting coyotes while jogging?

146 134 Allen G,

it *is* evil...we need a commercial like ragan made to stop Universal healthcare back when he switched parties.....

there is nothing moral about it, it is not a good from a utility standpoint because the meager rate of return on the fraud of an "investment" is such a cruel joke I'd be thrown in jail if I ran a shadow civillian program of it.

it is state enforced at gunpoint charity.

Charity is an individual matter, and the government in robbing the citizen of that power robs the citizen from their personal oversight as to how that charity will be administered.

Some SS apologist is going to have to show me ANY organization that runs with NO middleman cost.

147 I would vote for any candidate should they get the GOP nomination.  Palin, Bachmann, Ron fucking Paul, you name it.  I would do so with an extremely heavy heart in some cases, as I believe several would make terrible presidents (but then they couldn't win anyway), but I would still vote AGAINST Obama. 

I have said this a thousand times. 

The people who keep coming back at me with this sort of crap (despite the fact that I have proclaimed frequently that I'd vote for Satan himself were he the GOP nominee) just seem like they're trying to fortify their "I'll vote for Obama over Romney" excuse in their mind in advance.  And you folks are honestly not helping one bit.

148 145 jeff....sorry i missed you saying you would vote for palin..... as for your #2...you never fail to disappoint with your name calling....mature much? nooooooo......nay never!!!!!! i remember you schooling everyone that palin couldn't win because the womyns in your life said so........and i'm not a palinista.....yet.....

149 Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.

150 I think Herman Cain is amazing and he should never go away, he would make a great anything in a Perry admin. I would like to see him as Chief of Staff to Perry or at least a business adviser to the President.

151
...and this is why we lose elections

152

Satan > Mittens. Call me Benedict Arnold.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 08, 2011 11:34 AM (xjEhh)

dumbass

153 Uffdah, gotta leave, Disgaea4 just showed up in my mailbox.

As to Romney, I say what I say by ways of warning. This was one debate, and he can still get right and acknowledge the failure of Massacre, the impossibility of continuing SS into the foreseeable future, and promise the outright repeal of Obamacare (rather than the weak-ass waivers while he implicitly 'fixes' it).

I just have a hard time seeing him moving somehow winning the nomination and then moving to the right.

154 Romney did well. Perry was a mild disappointment, but I'm not sure if that was obvious to typical viewer. What most interests me is the extent to which Perry was hurt by not coming across as the Conservative Messiah Who Reduced Romney To a Pile of Mush.

155 146 Ben,

I wrote during the debate that Mitt lost a lot of respect for me, you'll recall last election I was enraged at Huckadoodle for his bullshit attacks on mitt and preferred Mitt over McCain....

Governor Socialized medicene eill grt my vote buty he will not get my wallet or time, and I volunteered about 100 hours and max donations from the wife and I to the Mccain campaign that I loathed....

I expected Juan Queeg to be a backbiting shitheel....

I thought better of Mitt

156

A 'Debate' is when two people stand there and....debate....issues, through a series of point-counterpoint exchanges.

These things are not really 'debates'..... They are more like media ambushes.

Palin is looking more and more cowardly by the day, by avoiding being asked any tough policy questions. She throws out little carefully prepared statements designed to make people think they know where she stands on issues.....but she really isn't taking a very firm stance on anything.

157

Slu:

If the guy really is a "Romney advisor", then I stand corrected. (I don't trust Politico.)

I'm working up a healthy lugie for Romney's Johnson & Murphy's, though, just kind of rolling it around in my mouth, for when he comes out with that garbage himself.

158 Build a panel which includes a sitting or recently retired Republican politician (someone in Congress or a Governor), a conservative academic and a conservative opinion journalist that question and engage the candidates one at a time. Dick Cheney, VDH, and Ace (or Rush is Ace is busy)

159 Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.


He should've punched the good doctor right in the nose.

And it's so easy to take a still photo out of context.

Dumbass.

160  I think Herman Cain is amazing and he should never go away, he would make a great anything in a Perry admin. I would like to see him as Chief of Staff to Perry or at least a business adviser to the President.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at September 08, 2011 11:36 AM (8MjTd)

Why advise a cabinet secretary. A job with pres. palin is much better. lmao. i keed

161 I've seen Perry do better than he did last night but he wasn't absolutely horrible. Romney, who is by nature a better performer, continued his streak of good performances. However, his reaction to the Social Security question (recitation of liberal talking points) and the press release issue by his team makes me further question his trustworthiness. A majority of advisers would tell you it's politically smart, but that doesn't make it any less of a lie.

162 156 gadfly,

I think Mitt TRULY has fallen prey to the Dole, McCain "my turn" paradigm that screws us every time and is an affront to our vote.

Part of why i hate Obama so much was his behavior towards even HILLARY! on the trail....

Mitt has turned into a bully.

163

Why Perry was suddenly looked to by the GOP masses as some sort of  conservative purist with the political skills to beat BO is something I just don't understand.

His track record on illegal immigration is atrocious.  The man opposed E-Verify.  He supported in-state tuition rates for illegal aliens.  But all I hear is "move along, nothing to see here" from those who are so gung-ho about the man.

There is no strident conservative in the race who is electible.  Bachmann is stridently conservative, but unelectible.  Romney is modestly conservative (not stridently) and is electible IMHO.  Perry is not stridently conservative, and I don't believe will ultimately be electible.  GWB is too fresh on people's memories.  They aren't yet ready to elect another Texas Governor who has problems with articulation.

 

 

164 If a steaming pile of shit wins the nomination,  will you vote for it?

165 >>>Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.

I'm just disappointed he didn't give him a wedgie.

166 Why? Because the GOP are fucking assholes. That's why.

167
  Have the best day possible, good people. Granddaughter and I will be repairing a duck blind, where there is NO politics involved.

  Waterfowl hunters are allowed to be envious.

168

Excellent analysis Drew M.

 

I'm sure Ace will come along and flesh it out though...too brief.

169 If Romney goes down this road he won't get my support in any form other than a vote in the general elections. I won't put up signs, make phone calls, go door to door, bumper stickers, nothing. He already went down this road. Its unfortunate. If he is the eventual nominee I would still vote for him, but it makes the job harder for every one now.

170

Posted by: Dang at September 08, 2011 11:39 AM (TXKVh)

I would over the bigger one in the White House

171 Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.

Well if that's not an argument for Ron Paul for President, I don't know what is! 

172 I don't understand why we can't stop this damned in-fighting. Let's let the primary season sort out the strongest GOP candidate and then every single one of us who would like to see a real recovery get behind that person. Then, we need to do everything we can to educate those around us who haven't been paying attention and get the SCoaMF's feet off the desk and out of office.

Oh, and Run, Sarah, Run!

173 176 irongrampa,

envious that you are on auto-pilot while Nero is tuning the fiddle?

Nah not really.

Have fun though we'll try to stop the rot while you play a horn.

174

You know, here's what this "Romney advisor" probably said:

 Â“This is the problem with going down that road--it is too easy for your opponents and the media to misrepresent. Every House candidate that runs, every Senate candidate that runs, would have to run on the Perry plan to kill Social Security. We all know he doesn't plan to kill it, but that'll be the way it's put in front of the public by you filthy bastards.”

175

Waterfowl hunters are allowed to be envious.

Almost time for some youth hunts.

176 Perry underwhelmed. Romney and Huntsman are the Ivy Leaguer smarmy. Paul is nutty. Cain is bromides. Bachman whinny. Santorum a cypher. Newt was the only one operating at a higher wavelength. Just sayin. I would vote for Newt and Perry. The others are a wash.

177 And here comes the FailTroll^_TM

178 ynot lol......

179 Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this. I didn't think my dick could get any harder, and then you pointed out that picture to me. RON PAUL! is a fucking disgrace and should be physically booted off the stage. And fuck his constituents, too. I'm supposed to respect Pelosi's constituents? Sheila Jackson-Lee's? Dennis Kucinich's? Pete Stark's? Fuck that and fuck them. Also, you can't spell "constituent" without "tit." I think that's awesome.

180 OT:  Remember how the Teabaggers were holding the economy hostage?  That was like a metaphor.  But when union goons hold someone hostage . . . .

"LONGVIEW, Wash. (AP) — Hundreds of Longshoremen stormed the Port of Longview early Thursday, overpowered and held security guards, damaged railroad cars, and dumped grain that is the center of a labor dispute, said Longview Police Chief Jim Duscha.
Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m. and smashed windows in the guard shack, he said.
No one was hurt, and nobody has been arrested. Most of the protesters returned to their union hall after cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal, Duscha said.
The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor thatÂ’s staffing a workforce of other union laborers."

And this, apparently, wasn't even an oppressed workers versus greedy capitalists fight.  It was about which union goons which pieces of the pie.

181 172 If a steaming pile of shit wins the nomination,  will you vote for it?

Posted by: Dang at September 08, 2011 11:39 AM (TXKVh)

Beats what we have now.

182 180 Y-not,

yup because running a guy on the wrong side of social security worked so well last time....hell even Perry and Mitt are too old....

we needed a Younger Governor.

183 "I still think that's his goal (Run Sarah Run! is deepest wish)" Well, I could quibble on "goal", and whether this "wish" is actually his "deepest" - it's undeniable his goal is to win the nomination and his deepest wish is the presidency - but there is an, uh, INTERESTING problem here: How does one STOP Sarah from Run Run-ning? She wasn't up on the stage there, but she's been on the fringes - if jumping into the middle of every debate site and poll site can be called 'fringe' - constantly; and there's no sign of -- there's no SCENARIO for -- it stopping, or rather, of or for her stopping. It's the one question she gets asked constantly, whether on Fox News or anywhere else, or on the campaign stump. And it IS a campaign stump: it's set up to look like one, it's run like one, and it looks like one. It won't stop until she actually says the magic words: until she confirms she is not a candidate for 2012. But ... WHY should she ever say such a thing? HOW could she ever say it? Even if she doesn't declare before the primaries get underway, it won't stop: the media will still ask her the question, pundits will still set aside time to discuss it, and the speculation will. not. end. Even after Governor Perry (or possibly Governor Romney) sews up the nomination, it will not end: she will still be asked about running as an independent - and she will not rule it out; she will not put an end to the one thing that serves her ability to get media attention. She can't. So: is this a good thing, or not?

184 176,

I hunt my ducks in Kroger now, I stay dry and don't have to get up early only bambi in my cross hairs these days.

185 191 Soap,

amen....

186 All the predictable reasons you listed ACE are why I refused to watch it.  I have learned my lessons.  The next republican debate I watch will be moderated by people who share republican values and will ask questions we want to know about.  Not play their poisonous word games to protect their narcissistic turtle flipped on his back, with no shell.

187 Yeah, Newt "won" it and the last one.  I hope whoever it is gives him a shot at the VP slot.  We need adults in DC, because by 2013 we are likely to be in dire straights.

188 188 EoJ,

it is pretty funny that Mittens is now "purity cop" and throwing non conformists under the bus no?

189

Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.

brb getting fresh batteries and cigarettes

190 If a steaming pile of shit wins the nomination,  will you vote for it?

Steaming pile of shit or Obama.  I'd definitely vote SPoS but my only concern is whether I could discern which was which.

191
a "peace" group in liberal-rich Brookline, MA wants to ban the pledge of allegiance.

Why?

Because it can be used to "bully" kids.

And it "has no educational value."

192 156 Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.

Posted by: Gadfly at September 08, 2011 11:36 AM (8crIm)

---

His hand is not gripping anything.  It is resting on Paul's wrist, which is on the podium.  He is touching him the way you would when you are trying to really engage with someone in making a point. 

But you are right that Ron Paul is a frail old man who is unfit for office. 

193

Also, you cunt spell "constituent" without "tit." I think that's awesome.

_^fixed

194 194 'nam grunt,

I haven't taken a buck in a few years...

I'll never understand people who take it as a mark of distinction that they feel politics is beneath them but find the time to complain anyway....

if you don't care then simply put don't care....don't brag to me about it or announce you are disgusted by it just go on your walk y'know?

195

Either I'm going to have to up the alcohol budget or drink cheaper stuff [if that's possible] because I am beginning to hate myself. Why? I was beginning to think about Gingrich because he has been looking good in these forums. Could I forget the couch with Nasty McBotox, Tiffanys, Calista!, the serial divorces, Scuzzaflooza, the fat ego on that fat fuck? I have momemtarily considered this. Throwing the long ball to the butter-fingered receiver who, if he should actually catch the ball, is just as likely to run out of bounds and congratulate himself than run to the endzone? Wow. Is it coming to this? This is how America ends? Will a deadlocked convention draft Richard Lugar?

Used to want Palin but that's over. Bachmann as long as I don't have to listen to her, she's become a cliche machine. Liked Romney last time but he bugs me particularly on MassCare. I want Perry to be the big swinging champ but I was a little underwhelmed. So, call me conflicted.

I'm probably going to redirect more of my energies to the Senate as insurance against losing to BO. At this point putting all the eggs in the Presidential basket is too risky even though we cannot afford to lose to the SCOMF. We need more eggs in a lot of baskets. Same goes at the State level. The State Legislatures may be our last line of defense against the runaway executive branch.

Yeah, and our candidates shouldn't give in to the pretense that the MFM is some objective arbiter of the important issues. They should recognize that they are running against the MFM too.

196 too bad newt is newt....he reminds me of little lord fauntleroy...in fact....i envision him in a little velvet suit with a big bow tie.....white stockings.....ugh......

197 Breaking:
FBI agents are serving search warrants this morning at Solyndra, the Fremont solar company that abruptly closed last week, an agency official said.

The search is part of a joint investigation involving the FBI and the Department of Energy's Office of Inspector General, said FBI spokeswoman Julianne Sohn, who declined to elaborate.

Article is at sfgate.com

198 "179 If Romney goes down this road he won't get my support in any form other than a vote in the general elections. I won't put up signs, make phone calls, go door to door, bumper stickers, nothing.


He already went down this road. Its unfortunate. If he is the eventual nominee I would still vote for him, but it makes the job harder for every one now.

Posted by: blaster at September 08, 2011 11:41 AM (l5dj7)"

That's how I felt last night.

Let's just see to it that Romney isn't the nominee.  Reforming Social Security or entitlements will be damn hard without someone who is honest about the problem.  And that's just one of many problems.

Perry will hopefully be much better in the next debate.  I think he needs to be.  He's got my vote anyway, because he's got the most conservative record.  Spin aside, he's the best candidate.

But anyway, if Romney's the guy, us conservatives will have to pull out all the stops.  I think he's going to have a lot of problems against Obama that may not be very clear right now.  They are going to hit Romney a lot harder, and will less decency, and I just think Romney is quite vulnerable to lies about corruption, nastiness about his religion or private life, and flip flop claims that are frankly pretty accurate.

Romney would be a much better president than Obama.  Even if he's a flip flopper, he's an intelligent man who would want to be reelected.  Getting rid of Obama is worth more than just a vote.

But I know your sentiment is very common.  It would be really nice if Romney weren't the nominee.

199 ...i envision him in a little velvet suit with a big bow tie.....white stockings....


You need to get out more.

200

too bad newt is newt

 

He brings the knowledge...

and on a debate stage, he's the man.

201 Breaking:
FBI agents are serving search warrants this morning at Solyndra, the Fremont solar company that abruptly closed last week, an agency official said.

The search is part of a joint investigation involving the FBI and the Department of Energy's Office of Inspector General, said FBI spokeswoman Julianne Sohn, who declined to elaborate.

Article is at sfgate.com

Oh, yeah, baby, Don't stop, don't stop . . . .

202
It would be really nice if Romney weren't the nominee.

Resistance is futile.

203 No agenda there though, huh?

Not really (whatever their intent).  It's pretty obvious that a state with low wages and/or cheap and/or illegal labor is going to have a certain advantage.  If everyone is willing to work for minimum wage, of course employment will be high, or higher.

Perry failed to explain why Texas is FIFTIETH in health insurance.  Federal mandates?  That apply to the other 49 states, too?  SCORE ONE FOR THE MITT-STER. 

204 207 Y-not,

that's just the federal government trying to steal back its integrity.....

"nothin' to see here move along, move along"


Bambi understands the hearings are coming and a half-billion dollar sweetheart deal to a multi-thousand dollar contributor is not going to fire up his young idealist footsoldiers from last cycle.

205 I hope Perry was telling Ron Paul something along the lines of "I know where your bodies are buried, get out of here ..."

206

Article is at sfgate.com

Can you sit on that on the BART, or is it an e-only publication?

207

too bad newt is newt

Get him a Cabinet job.  Or, can't he run for Senate?

208 197 Yeah, Newt "won" it and the last one.  I hope whoever it is gives him a shot at the VP slot.  We need adults in DC, because by 2013 we are likely to be in dire straights.
Guy, I'm thinking we give the nomination to the man/woman who demonstrates the ability to win it straight up. Newt was the only one that prevented this debate from turning into a circular firing squad. Thats leadership and situational awareness. Two traits you might want in a Prez. He did it without damaging any speaker on the dias. Smart. Cool. Capable. Like I said, he demonstrated his ability while the others compared their records. Newt has a meaningful record. Time we rethink his candidacy.

209 correction I see that drew posted this not ace.

210

It would have been funny if Perry punched Ron Paul and then said, "You're a doctor, deal with it".

Also, I noted this yesterday, it's no coincidence that Ron Paul was next to Rick Perry at the debate. Paul has been attacking Perry since he got in and MSNBC sought to take advantage of that.

Also, these networks keep out the lesser lights by having a polling percentage cutoff to prevent a stage of 20 people. If I'm not mistaken, MSNBC's was at least 4% in one of 8 polls and Huntsman didn't have 4% in any of them.

It just goes to show that the media still has a decent amount of power and influence if it can through sheer force of will get a candidate no one wants, on stage during a debate. 

211 217 paris i think he'd be great as an advisor....he could run for senate...but i don't think he'd win.....

212 Perry is a geezer-shaker!!!  He's not fit to be president!!!!

213

Perry failed to explain why Texas is FIFTIETH in health insurance.  Federal mandates? 

 

Beaners.  I was going to say it, but I wanted to be polite.

214 Social Security isn't a Ponzi scheme.  Neither Ponzi nor Madoff could collect taxes.  It needs to be tweaked, but that's not abolition.  Or, if you want to abolish it, that's fine, as a choice, but that still doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme.

215 Paris - why is the number of people who choose to buy health insurance even an issue for a politician? Are you insinuating Texas has some sort of restrictive policy on insurance marketing, taxes, or regulations that are keeping companies out.

216 220 ben,

if the press gets to pick the candidate for us again the republic is doomed to go to the newsies desired Marxlite model

217 Perry was telling spaced out Paul to stay off his ass.

218 I would pay money to see Perry give Dr. Paul a swirlie.

219 I kinda see the thing about Newt.  I have to say that if it comes down to it, I would rather see Newt, than Mitt.

220 The rickperry AGW question, I thought about it, you can start off by saying that first, I read Bjorn Lumburg's skeptical environmetalist that states that the risks are miniscule compared to the costs, that Michael Crichton did a good job of summarizing the failure of the actual data, you know the science, to meet the claims of the AGW crowd, and that the Watts up With That blog is a good aggregator of AGW information. As for an actual scientist, I can say that Micheal Mann has been shown to be a fraud and that the AGW crowd has always been nebulous as they hide behind a fictional consensus. In fact, it's well known that the numbers have been fixed and scientists who have pointed this out have been targeted. Instead, we got, uh, a real bad answer. At least until he started actually talking policy points. And that's the thing I noticed about Perry, is that he starts off sounding like he's verbally clearing his throat and rambles for a bit, and then he starts rattling off actual policy points. But by that time, you assume he's bullshitting you.

221 I live in the 1st. district in Kansas. 
We have no vote, on anything. 

222 Romney would be a much better president than Obama.  Even if he's a flip flopper, he's an intelligent man who would want to be reelected.  Getting rid of Obama is worth more than just a vote.

Yes, but he would still not be the president we need.   The message from last night's debate was clear - Romney won't be cutting entitlements.  If he addresses it at all, he will try to 'fix' entitlements, probably the same way he 'fixed' healthcare in MA.  He will turn his dynamic, technocratic mind to the task and make things worse.

There are very real, tangible problems facing the country which a mannequin like Romney is ill-suited for.

223

207 Y-not

What better way to keep the public....or Congressional investigators......from seeing anything in Solyndra's that could be incriminating. Seize the records!

The very people who would want to sanitize the Solyndra records will now have custody of them.

It's great to be King.

224 @ sven, I don't know if "funny" is the word I'd use. I think Rex hit it on the head. If Mittens from Mass o' Douches wins the nomination, I'll feel like I did when I threw the lever for McCain: what the hell else can I DO?

225 perry response to the death row question was awesome..... Americans understand justice...... Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 11:26 AM (eOXTH) I agree 100%. Best moment of the night. I got a little chill when he said that. Also, my hubby said as we were watching "I don't think Perry is going to remind anyone of Bush."

226 224 parishilton,

no it's worse than Ponzi or Madoff because it is a tax that was sold as an account and was spent as fast as it came in by people who are in theory "public servants" on nothing.....

for the democrats especially to have nuked social security when they held the strings for 52 years straight in the house and then bitch about the country we live in is RICH

227

that still doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme.

1993 - Clinton administration announced that any under the age of 34 could not expect to receive Soc. Security.  If it isn't a Pozi Scheme, it's a scam.

228
We ran out of time last night to ask the following questions.

"Who is your favorite Bible character?"

229 SS isn't a ponzi scheme because it isn't a deceptive fraud; it is a consensual hallucination.

230
"Would Jesus repeal Obamacare?"

231 Prager calls, or called the GOP the Party of the Stupid, but he said earlier this year that's no longer true.  And it really isn't.  Can anyone not be proud of the field we/the GOP has?  Is there anything, ANYTHING intellectually comparable with the Dems?  Paul is an idiot-savant (at best), but really an impressive group of people up there last night.

232 And this point was made regarding AGQ scientists, I just don't remember where. There are no AGW scientists, you don't get a degree in it. Most of these guys are professional bullshit artists or statisticians. There is no degree in environmental AGW stuff. So, I would point that out, if I had my shit tight.

233 Wow.  The Pro-Perry faction seems to be of two minds.  Some are making excuses and promising that he'll be better.  Others are blaming the press/format/sponsors/MsDNC for "gotcha" questions and set-ups.  Like that is suddenly something new and unique for their boy to face.

No one is spouting off all the triumphant bragging that we saw in heavy doses prior to last night.  Are the scales starting to fall from your eyes?  Rick Perry is a decent candidate.  He isn't God.  He has a lot of weaknesses.  Some of which were blindingly obvious last night.

Frankly, he was pathetic as he bounced and cried "that's not accurate, that's not true" as the applause from Romney's partisans in the crowd washed over him after Romney pointed out that job growth was stronger in TX under both of Perry's predecessors. 

He had a golden opportunity to make the moral case for the death penalty but instead turned that big fat pitch down the center of the plate into a "Rah, Rah, Texas" brag and played to the baying of the crowd.  Piss poor is what that was.

Not ready for prime time, clearly.

234 234 EoJ,

indeed....

it seems my choice this cycle is to vote for bill Clinton's blander more borig brother or Chicago lenin

235
"If you discovered your son was gay, what would you do?"

236 A lot of the issues Texas with wages and insurance and education are due to illegal immigration, which is the Federal government's failure. But that is one of those true things that a candidate for President just can't say.

237 Didn't finish that: SS isn't a ponzi scheme because it isn't a deceptive fraud; it is a consensual hallucination enforced by the coercive police power of government.

238 Imagine 2012 election between Newt and Hillary. It may be the most realistic scenario out there. A brainiac versus a screecher. Good times.

239 And that's the thing I noticed about Perry, is that he starts off sounding like he's verbally clearing his throat and rambles for a bit, and then he starts rattling off actual policy points. But by that time, you assume he's bullshitting you.

That's exactly how it read to me.  (I haven't watched the debate yet - relying on Althouse's transcript of that part.)

If that was his biggest flub, he's fine. 

I want to see him go on the attack on science issues, though.  I am confident he has the numbers to prove how pro-science the state of Texas is.  He should have those numbers at his fingertips - things like patents on new energy technologies, research expenditures in biomedicine, etc (hell, I'd even trundle out the Nobel laureate numbers, iirc UT Southwestern Med Ctr had several) - and go on the offensive. 

240 New Ace thread up.

241 How could Dick Cheney say that SS is not a ponzi, what's up with the dark lord?

242 239 Jean,

applause "hey-o"

except....you are forced to take LSD the first time you engage in paid labor.

243 I get really excited about Romney every time and then he turns me off during the debates. I don't really know what it is...but it's something like I get the feeling he would say anything to be President. Lat night when he went after Perry for being in government as long as Perry has-Perry could have said- Well Mitt-sure -if the voters had voted for you-and you had won a couple you Mitt would have been in government longer too. Same goes for the other candidates that have lost past elections......and are now using that as an attack line.

244 SS isn't a Ponzi scheme only because you have to volunteer for a Ponzi scheme.  The financial part of it is exactly like a Ponzi scheme.  Use money from the new entrants to pay a return to the old entrants.  As long as there are always many new entrants, the scheme can continue.  When the number of new entrants stays even or declines, the wheels start to come off.

245 237 garrett,

it is a tax scam ran from the government on the people

246 But dear lord, I want Newt to run. A little bit. I mean, I can't right? That'd be as bad as Bachman or Cain, right? But Newt's good.

247 You need to stop reading Althouse ASAP.

248 What better way to keep the public....or Congressional investigators......from seeing anything in Solyndra's that could be incriminating. Seize the records!

I confess.  That was my first thought.

They'll find some mid-level white guy to blame it on and whitewash the rest.

249 251 JoeinDc,

you have to understand that Dick is of that generation, for all their braying Cheney was a moderate reaganite......

250 23 CMaJH,

yup....

this would be akin to Bush raiding Plame's personnel file

251 SS isn't a Ponzi scheme only because you have to volunteer for a Ponzi scheme.

The redheaded Fox babe just asked that question to one of their financial gurus. That is the same answer she gave but that liberal redheaded babe still tried to make lite of the Perry answer.

The answer from the buisness babe essentially boiled down to "the only difference is that a Ponsi scheme is illegal and SS is not".

252 I'm in Perry's camp.  The fact is Perry will need to improve his debate performance.

I don't know what the problem is.  It's not Perry's innate ability to debate.  I've seen him better than this, for sure.

Part of the issue is that Romney really is brilliant at this.  So there's not much margin for error.  And Romney is taking the easier ground on many issues, picked perfectly for political reasons rather than principled ones (in my opinion).  But Perry just plain didn't perform very well, and he'll need a lot of prep and focus to improve his game.

This leads to the core problem.  We have too long an election cycle, and it makes it much harder for current leaders to compete.  We're left with professional politicians int he truest sense.  Those running for office for years on end without doing anything else.  And legislators who really have no basic responsibilities.  We have a stupid way of picking our nominee, then.  Perry's main problem is that he's going to keep doing a good job in Texas, so he's not going to be on the same competitive ground as the other candidates.

Combine that with their rabidly insecure need to pile on Perry, and it's a wonder we didn't have some serious gaffes last night.

253 Would you be willing to tell the high school valedictorian child of undocumented immigrants that he must be deported to a country that he's never seen?

254 @243, you're right, Perry needed to show up in a debate to earn his hype. So, last night showed that he's not slick. But that's ok, I guess, what with him being able to say, I'm doing a good job as governor. But Huntsman seems to be able to say the same thing.

255 35 So, is anyone going to watch Captain Clusterf*ck tonight? 
  I'll watch like I always do................through the comments here at HoboHQ.   I would rather have a naked Joy Behar sing the musical Annie while giving me a full body wax than watch Obama give another speech.

256

Would you be willing to tell the high school valedictorian child of undocumented immigrants that he must be deported to a country that he's never seen?

 

¡Sí, me puedo!

257

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 08, 2011 11:53 AM (QxSug)

Lomborg believes in AGW, so that would not be a source to site first (be just thinks we can't do anything about it on a cost-effective basis); he could have mentioned farming in Greenland; the hide the decline BS; the CERN findings; the fact that ice cores show ice ages with much higher CO2 atmospheric concentrations; and maybe how much more money is available to "prove" AGW than to disprove it.

My fear is that the average viewer does little more than "vote" on image.  Perry seemed reasonably sane, and "Texans are conservative"; Romney seemed reasonably sane, but voting for a Mormon from MA as a GOP nominee seems insane, so Romney doesn't have a chance?  Hope that's wrong, or that most of the people who care at this point are not that typical of who will vote in the primaries.

Actually, my guess, and I believe, Romney's bet is that this time, moderate Republicans, and independents and even Dems who can vote in open primaries will determine who gets the nomination.  The people who don't usually vote in primaries are too scared not to vote this time, and will get Romney the nomination.

258 If a steaming pile of shit wins the nomination,  will you vote for it?

Posted by: Dang at September 08, 2011 11:39 AM (TXKVh)

Beats what we have now.

Couldn't be any worse.

259 The thing is I am not convinced yet that the independents will come along with Newt and getting the Commie-In-Chief out of there is job number one.  But I don't think I would have many problems with a Newt presidency or many of the repub candidates.

Although none of them seem to be hitting my top 3 issues.  But it is what it is.

260

If a steaming pile of shit wins the nomination,  will you vote for it?

If that steaming pile of shit is running against Obama?

In a word...yes.

 

261 Drew, Newt is another Obama. Just white. Better the socialist you know than the one in the closet.

And, also, why do you think foreign policy wasn't discussed? Are our guys silently rooting for Obama's gameplan? How can they get away with not even a mention, or do you they think no one really gives a damn?

262 @268, oh yeah, bjorn and a couple other reasonable AGW types are moderate in that they believe that CO2 is a warmening agent, but they also throw in the additional concepts of: 1. people are fucking lying about data (that video that ace posted months ago), so we need to clean that up to be scientific. science!; or 2. even if CO2 is bad, the actual badness from CO2 won't cause the oceans to envelope the earth, so let's be sane about this. Most AGW coreligionists can't even accept these two points. But they are "moderate" and worth mentioning. I mean the kill shots are the faked data, the actual data, and the failure of past models (they've been around for decades) to predict current weather, etc.

263 Would you be willing to tell the high school valedictorian child of undocumented immigrants that he must be deported to a country that he's never seen?

Posted by: The MSNBC Unbiased Debate Question Committee

 

Gee, that depends. I'm told that if this poster boy ripped several people apart, he'd be able to hide behind the Consul of this country he's never seen. Since that is the case, the only question is whether he goes greyhound or FedEx.

264 I think Rex hit it on the head. If Mittens from Mass o' Douches wins the nomination, I'll feel like I did when I threw the lever for McCain: what the hell else can I DO?

Even if you don't love Romney, this is an absurd comparison.  McCain is/was a nice guy and a military hero.  But he is/was no genius in anything.  Romney finished first in his class at Harvard Law; and has a Harvard MBA; and has the Bain thing; and became Governor; and fixed the Olympics; and speaks French; and finished second last time in the primary; and can pronounce Ahmadinejad.

So, if you really want to sound stupid, keep comparing Romney to McCain.

265 Perry came across flustered and sound byte-heavy. I got the impression he was trying to remember his pre-made responses but couldn't always bring them to mind. Understandable, given the pressures of the moment. However, he didn't sustain any real damage. He took some punches, but that's to be expected in a primary. I wouldn't say he won the debate, but he certainly didn't come apart and that's a win for a frontrunner.

266 273, my point is that citing Lomborg concedes that AGW is real.  "Real but..." is a fallback position to stop carbon taxes amongst lefty idiots; it's not how you win a debate.

267 Again, it's a chink in the armor of "the consensus." But yeah. **Would you be willing to tell the high school valedictorian child of undocumented immigrants that he must be deported to a country that he's never seen? Posted by: The MSNBC Unbiased Debate Question Committee** yes, and demand a refund for the free education he received. If he doesn't like it, he should take it up with his parents for putting him in that position.

268 Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?  I don't think even hard core supporters could defend this.

Yeah. Next question.

269 “Man-made global warming is an impressive theory; to become a science, its proponents needs to start making falsifiable predictions. In the last several years, we’ve seen that warm weather in Texas is the result of global warming; cold weather in England is the result of global warming; a powerful hurricane is the result of global warming, and when the next year has far fewer hurricanes, that’s also the result of global warming. Until global warming works in more than just hindsight, it’s not something we can spend trillions of dollars on, because there’s no way to plan for the future using a theory that can’t make predictions.”

270 Q:  Governor, is Social Security a Ponzi scheme?

A:  I'm first going to address my answer to voters under the age of 55.  Any of you countin' on SS as part of your retirement planning?  I ask that question to everyone I know who is under 55 and no one has ever said yes.  Well, at least none who aren't Dem bootlickers.  That no one under 55 is counting on getting SS is pretty good proof that a lot of Americans know SS is a Ponzi scheme and it won't be there for 'em.  Isbout time the fedral gubmint start matching its reality to everyone else's.

Anybody who knows what a Ponzi scheme is knows SS is just that. In fact,SS is worse than a Ponzi scheme.  At least a Ponzi scheme is voluntary.  There's nothing voluntary about SS.  And in a Ponzi scheme the crook organizing it never can change the rules for distribution without inciting the ... curiosity ... of the defrauded.  Not so SS.  Everyone up here knows there is going to be a different set a rules for SS in 20 years.  But still folks gotta keep payin' in.

Now I'm goin' to talk to Americans 55 and older.  Your gubmint made you a promise.  You kept your end of the deal.  Your gubmint will keep its end of the deal when you elect me President. 

Next question.

271 I am glad that the poniz scheme truth has become mainstream, I just wish they did better at saying, we are making IOU's to ourselves. Also, point out that SS isn't free money, at least that it was set up that you put $ in, you take $ out. And that therefore it's selfsustaining. The promise being that taxes won't support it. Raising taxes to pay for SS violates the quid pro quo making SS just another government hand out.

272 156 Perry physically confronted Ron Paul during one of the commercial breaks.  There's a picture at Drudge right now.  Paul is a sitting congressman, but more than that, he's an elderly man.  Perry grabs Paul's wrist and shakes his finger in his face in a way that is completely disrespectful and inappropriate.  Can you really vote for him after looking at this picture?


Yeah, I can.  (But it helps to imagine him doing it to Obama; after Obama has given him that 'I'm giving my opponent the finger but not really but you all know I am' move. )

273 So, if you really want to sound stupid, keep comparing Romney to McCain.

I think Herb Tarlek is a better comparison for Slick Mitt.

274 275 PP,

and evidently is a Rockerfeller republican who buys into donklite LIKE McCain and governed as a far more liberal politician than I care to vote for which is what we are speaking to....

Mitt's resume is wonderful....

and it means sweet fuck all because the newsies will never allow it to be compared to bambi's unless to say..."well Mitt I ran the law review did you?' and the ignorant sheeple will not grasp that Barry is the ONLY Law review boss not to publish...because Chris tingle won't tell them....

275 If you hate baseball, you are a squishy RINO.  That's in the Bible.

276 I just want one debate between Newt and Barry. And a real debate, not one of these media fashion shows.

277 Perry said flat out that no one currently receiving benefits would be impacted by his SS reform. It was the first thing he said on the subject. Did everyone miss that? WE heard it, but we were too busy yelling at Brian the a**hat and his side kick to focus on much of what was said. We "tried" to listen to the circle jerks after but they were soo gleeful in tearing apart each clip that we had to turn off the television.

278 Perry is being 'Palinized' with the Ponzi stuff. 

279 only 14 months of this!

280 This is why I don't waste my time listening to debates. Go by what the candidates have done, not what they say when the camera is on them.

281 Michelle Malkin on F&F this morning said it best.  Imagine the Democrats having a debate at one of their sacred places (she said SEIU headquarters) hosted by Rush Limbaugh and with questions from Breitbart and herself. 

So why again did the Republicans schedule a debate at the Reagan Library hosted by Brian F'n Williams and the douchebag from Politico?

282 I choose Newt.

283 Late to the game, but last night's questions from the moderators were like the setup gay marriage question from the gay judge (Perez Hilton-spit!) to Miss California at the Miss America pageant a few years ago.  "And yeah, I'm SUPPOSED to be neutral, but if you don't answer the way I want you to answer, you are gonna be SOOOOO screwed....."

284

So why again did the Republicans schedule a debate at the Reagan Library hosted by Brian F'n Williams and the douchebag from Politico?

 

Whoever in the GOP is responsible for allowing this should be horsewhipped.   For those MSNBC clowns to be allowed in the Reagan library is clear evidence that we either have a mole in our ranks, or someone who is monumentally stupid.  Either way, they need to be identified and exiled.

285 IMHO, it would be traitorous to withhold your vote, no matter if Satan himself were the GOP candidate.

I admit I'd probably sit out the election if RP was the repub.  Obama is a SCOAMF but at least he wasn't a TOTAL imbecile and green lighted the OBL takeout.  I think RP is truly crazy enough that he wouldn't have given the OK just like he said he wouldn't.

But since RP's chance is as close as zero as you can get, thankfully I won't have to sit out the vote.

286 "Drew, Newt is another Obama. Just white. Better the socialist you know than the one in the closet."

Do you even know what you are talking about? Newt was the architect of the 1994 Republican takeover of the House, the first in 42 years. Do you even remember that the Dem-Rockerfeller Republican lock had branded Goldwater conservatism as a perpetual loser, forever vanquished, until Newt and his insurgents came along?

Newt was suitably chastised after his "right-wing social engineering" remark. Yes, he occasionally gets off the reservation but not because of a desire for McCain style compromise/surrender, but rather because he's looking for the sweet spot of that set of issues that 75% of Americans can agree on. Give him a problem and he'll come up with a conservative solution to it.

I'll tell you, Newt is growing on me. Obama wouldn't stand a chance in a fair fight.

287 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

288 What's great about Texas was great before either Perry or Paul were ever elected to any public office.

"Mr. Perry walked over Mr. Paul's lectern, took hold of the congressmanÂ’s wrist and wagged his finger at him."

NJ chuckling, "no innocent bystanders" given Christie's new Bill of Rights laying the responsibility on everyone to tattle tell on bullies. If he had the guts (plenty there), Christie could host the next GOP debate to see how he plans to implement his new anti-bully law.

Of all places for physical aggression accompanying verbal sparring, the Reagan Library is where statesmanship and collegiality within the party was supposed to be the legacy being celebrated last night.

With an abusive personality, cheer on the bully as if he would never hurt you, as if he's your champion. Dream on, keep your nose clean within the corrupt and authoritarian establishment, as if paying dhimmi dues insures any protection from abuse.   

It isn't as if Perry ever stood up for the politically incorrect populations of American citizens, either as a Democrat Legislator and Commissioner during Clinton's burning of the Branch Davidians without trial after denying them the right to surrender to the Texas Rangers as the dead victims had repeatedly offered to do; or as a Republican while removing all "children" under the age of 21 from their polygamous homes when CPS didn't even have facilities to house the hundreds at once, babies lost in the system for over a year, all on the basis of false testimony.  So much for innocent until proven guilty. So much for common courtesy, decency, and rule of law.

But during his 10-year tenure as Governor, Perry's fashionable "compassion" has enabled illegal aliens to gain tax funded benefits, raising the illiteracy of Texas children in public education, increasing the costs of medical insurance given so many illegal aliens taking treatment without paying anything in return, and in-state "outsourcing" jobs displacing highly skilled US citizen tradesmen, journeymen, artisans and craftsmen in this right-to-work State of Texas who are given the pink slip by employers that re-fill those laid-off positions with illegal immigrants.

He's had 10 years to present and implement solutions, but didn't. Perry did spend his wad on forcing against Texans' will the NAFTA's Trans-Texas Corridor (eliminating border control and burdening local businesses but providing himself with plenty of kickbacks), the STD vaccine executive order (nice Merck kickback), and the arbitrary and forced removal of every person under the age of 21 from their homes while denied any contact with any family member based upon unsubstantiated testimony that proved false under the slightest amount of investigation (of all people, an out-of-state Obama campaign worker with a record of making false reports).

289 FWIW, my registered Democrat wife was watching the debate with me and said "well it IS a Ponzi scheme the way it's currently constructed and he did say he wanted to fix it."

290 While MSNBC gives Hate Crime perp Al Sharpton a forum to slander the GOP FOX is censoring its own programming: http://elvisnixon.com/2011/09/08/uclasian-usc-too.aspx

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