1
Al Gore takes self-righteousness to a new level.

2 i think al sr smokes what al jr. smokes................

3

That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction.

To them, that's by design.  It always has been with libs.

They're just not so keen on highlighting that part of their intellectual pedigree.

4 A few eggs must be broken...

5 I deal with it every day.  People who would love to spit on me because I support the death penalty for murderers, would also love to spit on me because I think the death of millions due to the banning of DDT is abhorrent.

6
Inside every self-righteous wo/man is a guilty-as-sin creep.

Weiner was caught.
Gore was caught.
John Edwards was caught.

Next up: Larry O'Donnell or Keith Olbermann. One of these a-holes will be caught while on their knees at a rest stop or while raping a hooker.

7 You've got to break eggs to make an omelet.

8 Both Stalin and Walter Duranty would be proud of Gore.  Millions dying of radical environmental policies is nothing at all when it comes to Gaia.

9

millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price

Eh

10 That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction.

More room for me.

And isn't that what's most important?

11 What he said.

12 Maybe they will name a school after him like they did for Rachel Carson.  Break a few eggs indeed.

13

This is probably the most vicious aspect of leftist thought: That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction.

Exactly.  And furthermore, as Jim Lacey so eloquently puts it in his piece, the enviro-tard's policies hurt the very people liberals claim to care so much about the very most, Africans, Indians, Asians, so on and so forth.

Environmentalism, as practiced by people such as Gore, is one of the most racist and the most odious philosophies out there today.

14 Yawn

15
You all know very well about how we fund hundreds of useless studies.

Where's the study on the economic impact of EPA regulations?

16  the enviro-tard's policies hurt the very people liberals claim to care so much about the very most, Africans, Indians, Asians, so on and so forth.

See, Daddy?  I may not have made it being President like you wanted, but I'm responsible for killing millions of colored people.  Do you love me now, Daddy?

17

Utility!

.

18 Very pungent essay about what environmentalists don't like to talk about ... You might even say it was thermonuclear...

19 Lets round up the eco terrorists and force them to enjoy the excesses of American Society, that will teach them.

20 hell yeah it kills people mostly the third world to boot....

every interference in the food market through subsidy that redirect our arable land to produce fuel starves a baby.

That is fact not hyperbole, not only does it starve babies it also drives up US food costs making them more expensive as almost our entire food chain here is based on corn.....

add in the restrictions on energy expansion that the Goreons bribe the leadership of the third world to saddle their nations with through "aid grants and loans" to get moral justification for pap like Kyoto and you drive up the cost of refrigeration, proper HVAC, and easy food prep.

None of it matters though because after all "they are too many people anyway"......

My only regret is that Dr. Crichton died before he saw his shot to Gore's nuts land.

21 Leftists hate, above all, themselves.

22 Right wing politics: where every day is opposite day.

Polluters are Saints
Environmentalists are Sinners

Animals are bad
Corporations are good

Forests pollute
Factories produce sweet-smelling air

Oil, gas and coal are Good
Solar and wind power are Bad

you guys are pitiful

23 How many miserable deaths has the Ecotards caused after the ban on DDT?

24 It is better for a million Africans to die than for our programs to be defeated.

25 13 Kratos,

index that to their mockery of Christianity for the "sin" of the Inquisition....

last I checked we're out of that business or the landscape would be a lot different....

I always tell them when they go that route, ah now I know you're just angry we didn't go far enough like you guys try.

they love it

26

Lacey's article is the best thing I've read in a long time.  

Morons, go and do likewise.

27

Nothing could be worse as far as direct impact deaths go than the banning of DDT by William Ruckelshaus, mass murderer. All research and investigation pointed to the fact that there was no scientific reason for banning DDT and millions of deaths worth of reasons for maintaining it. He ordered it banned via executive fiat.  This set the course for the EPA down the road. Thank you Richard Nixon.

28 I do think of you peasants. Every time I practice the opposite of what i preach, I think of you. Do you really want to see pictures of me trying to stuff my hocks into a prius?

29
poor "walter"

urine idiot

30

One Earth Day I'm going to get around to putting the following on a sign on the back of my truck:

If carbon dioxide is a pollutant then we need to stop breathing. You go first.

31 22 Walter,

I'd bring in a few rebuttal witnesses but I am about 145 million people behind thanks to Stalin, pol Pot, Castro, and Mao's handiwork.....

don't worry though your "green shit" will eclipse them all in all likelihood chasing after offsetting the heating of the sun "science" boy

32 Posted by: walter at September 09, 2011 01:55 PM (oA4y0)

very original, walter.  Does your Mom know you use the computer?

33 I've always wondered HTF the eco-nazis reconcile save the trees with ban carbon dioxide...?

34 But Al gore is rich now. So you know. Rich leftist.

35

Good article, good essay by Ace.

Someone else wrote this, I'm just quoting / paraphrasing it.

You can't use logical arguements to argue someone out of an emotional position.

You have to use emotional arguements.

 

 

36 AlGore? Leave Rick Perry alone!!!!

37

Whenever some granola-eating, Prius-driving, Think Globally, Act Locally-bumper stickering know-nothing tells me that "I think everyone should eat food that's been 'organically' grown without pesticides or herbicides," I have to try hard not to say to them, "Oh, that's nice, and which billion people on the planet are you willing to sentence to a slow, painful death by starvation?"   Maybe I shouldn't try so hard -- maybe if our manners didn't get in the way of challenging these fools who mouth these platitudes out of habit at the store, or at the kids' soccer game, or at the PTA meeting, maybe, just maybe, they'd think about the consequences of taking positions the only purpose of which is to make themselves feel better.

 

38

I was at a clients yesterday, when one 25 year old lady asked another how to figure out 40% of a price, on a CALCULATOR.

I rip'd off the answer, doing it in my head... and it took them about 2 more minutes to figure out I was correct...

These were Office folks doing Billing for Medical Supplys...

Public education is apparently doing a bang up job....

39 Where's the study on the economic impact of EPA regulations?

Posted by: soothie at September 09, 2011 01:51 PM (sqkOB)

Who would "study" it, the EPA?  Their studies have already been proven to be worthless and violate their own rules in court. 

The EPA should be abolished and every current member of its staff fired. The start over with a lot more control over the agency and the caveat that nobody who had a management position previously could be rehired.

40
Walter's Wisdom Nincompoopery

"The rich don't need 5 homes and gold plated toilets."

41 walter likes that colored people are dying by the millions.

See that, Daddy?  There are still a whole lot of our kind left in the Democrat party. 

Do you love me yet, Daddy?

42 remember the earth is over crowded this is just population control. when the left does population reduction they start with dark skinned people in far off places.

43 walter overslept for the NAMBLA meeting and is now acting out

44 You have to use emotional arguements. Why don't you have an Emotional discussion with a muzztard. Tell us how that works for you. Sometimes you have to exterminate the defective.

45

I kno we're not supposed to hate, so God forgive me, but I hate that man for what he has done to our economy, our way of life....for the indoctrinization of our children....I hate him.

If it were just stupidity, it could be forgiven, but that man did it for profit: Pure and simple greed in its most evil form.

 

I hate him for it.

46

Posted by: walter at September 09, 2011 01:55 PM (oA4y0)

Nice strawman.  How long it take you to build it?

47 Oil, gas and coal are Good
Solar and wind power are Bad

you guys are pitiful
Posted by: walter

Ah, the simple binary world of the left.

48 Mine Your Own Business, the documentary by Phelim McAleer is to this point.

I also remember seeing a story where the reporter was in a "hospital" in some sub-Saharan country and because of the limitations on any fossil fuel -produced energy foisted on Africa by a UN mandate (enforceable how?) caused them to have to rely on solar energy.

...the power they had allowed them to run only a few medical devices, mechanical appliance, or light fixtures at a time. The doctor showed where he had to unplug a refrigerator where perishable things like blood and medicines were stored in order to run a respirator

49 This is probably the most vicious aspect of leftist thought: That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction pursuit of Sociological theories long since disproved.

FIFY

I mean really Ace. Why use one word when seven is slightly more descriptive?

50

I spent some time volunteering in Malawi a few years ago and saw firsthand how the price of corn affected how many children an orphanage I worked at could afford to accept into their walls.  In the remote area this orphanage was in (3 hour bumpy ride on the back of a potato truck sitting atop a months provisions bought at the closest city) not being taken in by the orphanage was usually a death sentence.  I've kept in contact with the couple who runs the orphanage, and my family has helped fund a new baby house, and we hear constantly from them what the rising costs of food has done.

Cheap energy and food and clean water are the basics that these children need to even have a shot at a life.  Medical care and education next.  Global warming is the very last of their worries.  They walk with stacks of sticks and charcoal on their heads for miles each day to burn to keep warm at night and cook during the day.

And the slums outside Lilongwe were the dirtiest, most unhealthy environment you've ever seen.  Raw sewage running under your feet as you wandered from cardboard shack to cardboard shack, falling downhill into sewage pits with children playing around them.  Real poor in actual poor conditions, that not a single American is living in.

51 EXCELLENT ARTICLE. Make sure you read the first link.

52 Nincompoopery

NincompoopEnomics

53 Now all Al needs is a pair of aviators and a compound in Guyana.

54
more duncery from Walter:

"The problem with you guys is you lose the moral highground when you favor killing people over helping others."

55

Ethanol doesn't kill people! Starvation does!

I have the distinct mpression that all the "retro" sodas on the market these days have a helluva lot less to do with nostalgia than it does the price of corn syrup.

Cane sugar...welcome back!

56

 Comment # 38  "Oh, that's nice, and which billion people on the planet are you willing to sentence to a slow, painful death by starvation?"  

 

No, I think that is the perfect response.  Let her choke on it when you confront her with those consequences.

Short and sweet, to the point.

57 PETA kills some 97% of the animals they take in, according to a fact sheet in the sidebar yesterday.  Because leaving them alive to suffer would be cruel.

58 I recently completed my BA degree.  I was able to take some classes online.  One of the courses I took was "Global Climate Change".  As bad as that sounds, I was fortunate that I actually had a fairly conservative instructor for the course.  Part of the program included online discussions.  The instructor's first response to me after the initial posting from all students was, to paraphrase, " it is amazing to see how easily some people fall for the concept of socialism".  While most students were talking about evil corporations, and the need for a world body to oversee all matters environmental, I kept producing real world, free market solutions to some of the various questions that were posed.  (I also have real world experience in the environmental field, so I could actually dispute much of many of the more hysterical claims.)  The scariest part was during one discussion, a fellow student claimed that they are simply too many people on the planet, and, in order to reduce the demand on natural resources, the world's population would have to be reduced.  You cannot hold any kind of meaningful discussion when someone holds that kind of POV.

59
"Republicans are idiots for supporting NASCAR, the most idiotic sport of all time."

60

Everyone knows it's cooler in the shade, but oh no, the sun has nothing to do with glowbull wormening.....

 

61 What will this do to the hot IDF chicks?

62

walter overslept for the NAMBLA meeting and is now acting out

 

I, too, am a big fan of Marlon Brando. His work in....

 

Wait. What?

63

These are people who, deep down, loathe themselves. It isn't surprising that the rest of humanity is of little or no consequence to them.

That's why they hate humanity, they hate themselves and assume everyone else is just like them.  They literally cannot conceive of it being otherwise.

If they actually had the courage of their own convictions, they'd go kill themselves.

64 I'm really starting to believe that the left wants to kill people of color. Between DDT, the energy restrictions, the food restrictions, the educational restrictions here and abroad, the abortion here, the UN abortion funding, etc and then their pointing the finger at the "other" saying the non-left are the racists it looks like a ploy. It's a weird thing because I think they've fooled most of the people of color but at some point they have to wake up and see that the Margaret Sanger crowd, the elite, wants them dead. Dead.

65 What I want to know is - where is the
Solyndrathread for today...........and everyday

66 OT: Hillary Clinton was on TV talking about the terror threat. Primary challenge?

67 62, I thought it was soccer.

68

Well, they are mostly brown people, and cannot vote Democrat. So what's the problem? And these selfsame corpses-to-be would just burn fuels to cook their food and heat their hovels therefore hurting Gaia. So if they are not around, that's progress towards the New Utopia!

It's a bug to you, a feature for us.

69

And the slums outside Lilongwe were the dirtiest, most unhealthy environment you've ever seen.  Raw sewage running under your feet as you wandered from cardboard shack to cardboard shack, falling downhill into sewage pits with children playing around them.  Real poor in actual poor conditions, that not a single American is living in.

Posted by: MostlyRight

 

This picture isn't complete. I know! We need to enable malaria spreading mosquitos! In my world, this is a wonderful thing.

70 .....so people die. It's the lefty thought that counts....

In a great Uncommon Knowledge installment, David Berlinski explains how the left comes up with ideas and policies to make themselves feel superior...and cannot let go of them even when proven idiotic, because admitting they were wrong would put them at a an inferior position to their own original self-perceived one.

...pretty much how the left can't totally quit the SCoaMF

71 Why don't you have an Emotional discussion with a muzztard. Tell us how that works for you. Sometimes you have to exterminate the defective.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 09, 2011 02:01 PM (ZDUD4)

You mean at gun-point?  Like in Iraq/Afghanistan?

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.  Thanks for asking.

I'm not talking about using emotional discussions in a fuckin' combat zone fire fight.

I'm talking about political debates, here in the U.S.

Don't make a fuckin' maniac out of me.

72 71, Aint gonna happen, The protected class would make the Rodney king riots look like an Anthony Weiner Tantrum.

73
"The Military destroys....workers create and build."

74 59

Comment # 38 "Oh, that's nice, and which billion people on the planet are you willing to sentence to a slow, painful death by starvation?"

No, I think that is the perfect response. Let her choke on it when you confront her with those consequences.

Short and sweet, to the point.

Posted by: ed at September 09, 2011 02:04 PM (Y2WVW)

then point out, there are 6 billion people, so One in Six will starve... and ask them which One of Each Six of the THEIR friends and family will they choose to die of starvation.... as Leftists belive in shared pain and sacrifice.

75
Exactly.  And furthermore, as Jim Lacey so eloquently puts it in his piece, the enviro-tard's policies hurt the very people liberals claim to care so much about the very most, Africans, Indians, Asians, so on and so forth.





I once had to read an excerpt from one of Paul Ehrlich's overpopulation scaremongering books in a "critical thinking" course. The part I focused on was where he had his overpopulation epiphany while on a trip to Bombay, where he saw oceans and oceans of brown people in the slums. Yes, he used the term "brown people", and it was obvious from the context that he considered them to be less deserving of life.

The professor didn't appreciate it when I pointed out the bald-faced racism.

76 Yet another leftist movement motivated by eugenics? Oh what a shock.

77 Oh goody! A troll!

78 Communists don't care about actual people. They like death.

79 75, My point is that you can't talk people into shit. They must learn it own their own. Also, the difference between Muslim Terrorist and Eco terrorists is their God.

80 The Aztecs sacrificed thousands to their God to insure climate stability. So why is anybody disturbed that modern "scientist" do the same? Does anybody remember the outcome of the science of eugenics? It was fashionable, reasonable and consensus based at the turn of the last century. It fit well with utilitarian philosophy and was led by brillant minds. All the Ivy League types embraced it as modern and cutting edge. So what happened?

81 walter:
Corporations are good

Corporations are voluntary associations of free people united in production.  That's not necessarily good, but it sure can be.

Oil, gas and coal are Good

Um, you posted this from an electrically powered computer.

Solar and wind power are Bad

Well, wind power is usually just stupid.  But solar power is fantastic... if and when it's appropriate.  I don't think any right-winger opposes solar power.  What they oppose is the government dumping tax-payer money into pipe dreams which harm our energy grid and economy.

82
"Fluffy, you idiot."

83 I once had a liberal tell me that a mass plague was the " best thing that could happen to Africa." "Like AIDS?" I asked. "Well...yes" was the reply.

84 60 Jas,

what you don't think you'd have enjoyed tea with Mengele?

that is who they are....

85 Penn & Teller did a segment on their show Bullsh!t regarding organic farming.  The plants not grown on organic farms were shown to cost less, have less disease, and in informal taste-tests, people provide the look and taste on the non-organic food. 

86 They call it ... jackassery!

87 This is probably the most vicious aspect of leftist thought: That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction.

The second most vicious aspect of leftist thought: That millions of "indigenous people" ( ought to / must ) remain impoverished and backward simply to soothe leftists' wishes for authentic and quaint places to visit. George Crabbe (I think), spelled it out quite well:

Yes, thus the muses sing of happy swains,
Because the muses never knew their pains :
They boast their peasants' pipes : but peasants now
Resign their pipes, and plod behind the plough ;
And few amid the rural tribe have time
To number syllables and play with rhyme ;
Save honest Duck, what son of verse could share
The poet's rapture and the peasant's care ?
Or the great labours of the field degrade,
With the new peril of a poorer trade ?

88

Al Gore's mid-life crisis has a body count.

89
"US CIA overthrew the Iranian government and took 40%  control of the oil.  You idiot. Read history."

90 If white rich guilty anti-science liberals want to stay away from GM foods - then fine. But they are assholes for their efforts in stopping poor nations from feeding their people.

91 Well, excuuuuuuuusse me!!

92

"Fluffy, you idiot."

Ek-squeeze me?

93 When this was presented as an item in the ONT, I was hoping it would also receive day-post respect. It's ugly and it's true.

94 We need proudonkey AKA palin steele to tell us how the moral high ground goes to Obama because Capt America said so

95

My point is that you can't talk people into shit. They must learn it own their own.

That's exactly right.  Liberalism is like alcoholism - you don't recover from it until you've hit absolute bottom and you've got nowhere else to go but up.  Of course, you also have to look at yourself and realize you have a problem.

I know I was stupid when I was in my 20s and a liberal.  Then I saw how the world actually worked.  Since that time I've always thought that liberalism was an extended adolescence.

96

The professional left back in the days of Ayers & his weathermen thought that 10% of the population of the USA would have to be sent to camps for reeducation, once the glorious leftist revolution took place.

Population at the time was 250 million, so he was cool with sending 25 million of his fellow Americans to death camps.

Lovely people those leftists.

 

97 #67, The elites of the left want utter dependency of the general public which includes the power over dictating life and death.

98 Walter, what did I tell you about using my computer?  STAY OUT OF MY ROOM!

_{Oy, I wish I'd had an abortion...}

99 Feature, not a bug, Ace.  This is what they desire.

I am astonished that people fail to see the chain here.  Leftists, as a whole, are obsessed with death. Rather like Islam, they "love death the way we love life".

Eugenics, sterilization, abortion <--- especially this last one, all for the sake of Mother Gaia?  Bullshit.  It is but a ruse towards the Leftist goal of power.  The dogs at the top don't give a damn about the earth goddess that the peons whine to protect, they just want to thin the herds so that they are more easily manageable.

Fewer human beings to keep under surveillance makes the statist dream of 'human perfection' easier.  It is why I am consistently amazed that conservatives are ever on the fence about abortion.  The statists have done their work so well, half of our side doesn't even want to fight anymore on such a fundamental topic as safeguarding the coming generations.

It was never about women's rights...

It was never about protecting women from bad situations...

It has always been about blood and terror and death, and control.  A boot stamping on a human face forever.

One would think this to be common knowledge by now, but Leftists are good at deceit, and we, as a whole, are not awakened to the realization that we have been had, far, far, far past Social Security and Medicare.

>.> Proverbs 8:36 says "all those who hate Me love death."  Consider it!

100 I once had a liberal tell me that a mass plague was the "best thing that could happen to Africa."

They have no idea why America is prosperous, so they have no idea why Africa is poor.

For the left, an economy is just a pie to be sliced up more fairly.  They don't think in terms of wealth creation, and the political capital which enables it.  This one blind spot underlies most of their idiocy.

They look at Africa and think the problem is too many people for too small a pie.  And the only way they can imagine growing that pie is taking away from the rich countries, which have more than their fair share of the global pie.

101

Ace,

That article seems to be pro-Genetically Modified seeds and food.... Which is a good idea in theory.

The problems with GM seeds/food that are starting to emerge are sobering.

GM plants bear vegetables that can be eaten -- true....But the seeds from those plants don't germinate. So new seed must be purchased every year. This protects the patents of the seed company, but it is also seen as being predatory on hungry populations.

Another problem is the cross-polination that has been happening between GM plants and non-GM plants.....in corn, for example. The resulting hybirds are bearing the same non-germinating seeds as the GM plants.

AlGore is an idiot every day of the week, and a scam artist as well.....But the jury is still out on whether GM plants are a good idea for feeding large hungry populations in the long run, because they threaten people's ability to become self sufficient and continue with growing their own crops without having to buy expensive new seed every year. 

102 101 Don't think for a second that Obama, van jones, Pelosi, Durbin, Reid, et al aren't completely on board with this plan. They will kill millions in  a second if they thought they would be like Mao.

103

Solar and wind power are Bad

Dunno about solar but Hell yes wind power is bad.

104 Windpower sucks.

105 88 sven10077

It was mind-numbing sometimes.  People in that class thought we needed more regulations, and government could solve everything.  I kept having to prove to these people that there are already regulations and statutes in place that do exactly what these people want to do.  The discussion of clean water came up, and I had to debunk a UN proclamation about clean water in the US.  I work in the water treatment field, so I know about the processes that are used.  I actually enjoyed the class because it forced me to up my game, so to speak.

106 Gore got pw'nd the best when still happily married Dee Snider was able to throw Tipper and Al's holier than thou fight against him and his business right in their divorced faces. Beautiful.

107 106 What is the source of new GM seeds?

108

8375, My point is that you can't talk people into shit. They must learn it own their own.

 

Well, yes there is some good truth in this.  But it isn't absolute.  Otherwise debates and electioneering and get out the vote and whatnot would be pointless.

But yeah, bitter painful experience often times is the only way to learn something.

109 "Sustainable development" is what they call it, forcing the developing world to stay mired in poverty as they prevent them from industrializing unless it is done with inefficiet "green" methods.

110 Oil, gas and coal are Good
Solar and wind power are Bad

you guys are pitiful
Posted by: walter at September 09, 2011 01:55 PM

Four Legs Good
Two Legs Better

Yeh, we read Animal Farm too ya dickwad

Now go home and get your fuckin' shine box

111 111 Windpower sucks. Posted by: The American Bald Eagle

Windpower blows!

112 Well, yes there is some good truth in this. But it isn't absolute. Otherwise debates and electioneering and get out the vote and whatnot would be pointless. Thats just hearding sheep. True believers will not be swayed. I know I won't

113 Forests pollute

Do try to keep up with the latest insanity your side is up to, walter. Yellowstone National Park wouldn't be able meet the EPA's new ozone limits because of its conifers.

114 Mmm. Third World omelet.

115 Darn Sock

116 114 106 What is the source of new GM seeds?
Posted by: dagny at September 09, 2011 02:20 PM (ldNd

Biotechnology practiced in the labs of seed companies ...

117

In response to walter:

God bless the wood products industry!

118

Yellowstone National Park wouldn't be able meet the EPA's new ozone limits because of its conifers.

Don't confuse them with facts.  It leads to mental instability.

Wait, that's already happened.  Carry on then!

119 I still want to know how if GM seeds don't germinate, how you get new GM seeds?

120 111 Windpower sucks. Posted by: The American Bald Eagle at September 09, 2011 02:20 PM

Sure does when it blocks my view and gets in the way of my sailboats.

But I'm Kennedy Royalty, things that suck are what we force on the serfs.

Jeeves, cut me up some more lines of Columbian

121 BULLSHIT!!!!

122 But the jury is still out on whether GM plants are a good idea for feeding large hungry populations in the long run, because they threaten people's ability to become self sufficient and continue with growing their own crops without having to buy expensive new seed every year.

True.  Very true.  Like any technology, it can be used badly and exploitatively.

But, that's not a problem for "Golden Rice", yet the environmentalists still oppose it rabidly.

123

114

I think Monsanto is one of the big GM-seed producers....there are others, but I don't remember which companies off the top of my head. ADM, maybe....I will do some searching.

124 Has Environmentalism's body count passed that of Communism yet?

125 jas, my father-in-law works in the waste water treatment field.  I was looking for something to read on his bookshelf, and I found a copy of "The Population Bomb."  I brought it to him and said, "what the heck is this doing in here?"  He shrugged his shoulders and said, "I was a good hippie."  It shocked me.  Thank goodness he said was.

126 82 Communists don't care about actual people. They like death.

Posted by: dagny at September 09, 2011 02:11 PM (ldNd

Nyet... we care about Peoples!  But only Party Members are People! And we have the 5 Year Plan to help out the Party Members!

127 Yes, central planning of the economy and the environment kills people, but lefties are ok with that.

128 118 111 Windpower sucks. Posted by: The American Bald Eagle

Windpower blows!

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 09, 2011 02:22 PM (136wp)

Yup... to paraphrase... Wind Power is like a Fan... stand in front of it? It Blows... Stand Behind it? it Sucks... Stand Beside it? and it does not do a Dam thing for ya...

129 Short youtube video of the promo for Mine Your Own Business.

The cluelessness and complete disregard for human conditions by these left wing idiots is astounding

130 126 I still want to know how if GM seeds don't germinate, how you get new GM seeds?
Posted by: dagny at September 09, 2011 02:24 PM (ldNd

I think (think, mind you) that the point was that next generation of seeds from plants grown from GM or other hybridized plants do not breed true vis-a-vis their parent seeds, so that in order to continue to realize the benefits from GM or hybridized seeds, you must purchase a new round of the parent seeds every year.

131 The end justifies the means. That's what it all comes down to: they believe their goals are so wonderful and noble that any price paid to reach them is not just acceptable but actually laudable.

132 Oil, gas and coal are Good
Solar and wind power are Bad

you guys are pitiful


Let me explain it so even a small minded troll can understand.

Industrialized world much more productive than non-industrialized, in every endeavor. From making products to growing food. Industrialized economies run on energy.


Coal, Oil, Gas, energy = require fewer resources to generate and use=> Cheap=> Stuff costs less.
Solar  Wind = require more resources to use => expensive => Stuff costs more.

Stuff costs more in the first world. You put off buying an Ipad for a month.
Stuff costs more in the third world. People starve.

You type would ignore people starving to death while being gleeful that stuff costs more in the first world because it is somehow *justice*.

That's you.  People dying don't matter so long as the first world gets a smack in the face.

You are pitiful.

133 112 Jas,

when I first got out of the army and went to college i was in an English class that may as well have been called "Tron versus the red hippies"....

there were two of us that were former military a sailor and me, and dear lord the pap they were slinging....but yeah you sharpen your game.

All you need to understand about the Green Malthusian Death Cult is that the religious adherence to the precautionary principle will invariably drive cost of any product or operation past the point of profitable production on a long enough timeline.

They are taught by their little gurus that they have a moral imperative to make everything as safe as it can be no matter what the cost because "someone will always pay".

you feel like screaming...

"yeah really those villagers and kids starving over on the Serengeti Sally Strouthers looks like she is gonna eat...how much extra can they pay for you tap water to be higher than the original standard for surgical fluid?"

you have to compartmentalize and put the rage at their malicious ignorance in a tiny tiny box so it stays hot and dense, but when you get to let it out you be sure to burn them with fiery truth.

134 I still want to know how if GM seeds don't germinate, how you get new GM seeds?

Posted by: dagny

 

They get a Federal bail out.

135 You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

Well, YOUR eggs anyway. Mine are special eggs

136 Yes, central planning of the economy and the environment kills people, but lefties are ok with that.

Posted by: Texan Economist at September 09, 2011 02:26 PM (TC/9F)

...and don't forget the murder of millions to attain the power to plan the economy and enviro policy

137

The American Bald Eagle at September 09, 2011 02:22 PM (ZDUD4)

American Bald Eagle, meet David Horowitz and Sean Bannion, comment number 100 of this thread.

138

No, I think that is the perfect response. Let her choke on it when you confront her with those consequences.

Posted by: ed at September 09, 2011 02:04 PM (Y2WVW)

 

Amen.  I've long held that one of our most important jobs is to make it OK to talk about certain facts.  All this pussy-footing around, sparing peoples' feelings, is what's got us in this mess in the first place.  Tell the harsh, brutal truth and let the chips fall where they may.  It's the only way to get people talking sense, instead of censoring themselves.

139 138 no Whining,

correct, and it is an outcome that is foreseeable BUT if you breed too disparate a set of characteristics the seed can in fact be fallow.....

this is a problem, that said one can make the argument as long as the cost/benefit analysis stacks up that we are simply nudging mother nature along on biden's rocket train....

but SOME genetweaks are a bit ambitious.

140 106

Ace,

That article seems to be pro-Genetically Modified seeds and food.... Which is a good idea in theory.

The problems with GM seeds/food that are starting to emerge are sobering.

GM plants bear vegetables that can be eaten -- true....But the seeds from those plants don't germinate. So new seed must be purchased every year. This protects the patents of the seed company, but it is also seen as being predatory on hungry populations.

Another problem is the cross-polination that has been happening between GM plants and non-GM plants.....in corn, for example. The resulting hybirds are bearing the same non-germinating seeds as the GM plants.

AlGore is an idiot every day of the week, and a scam artist as well.....But the jury is still out on whether GM plants are a good idea for feeding large hungry populations in the long run, because they threaten people's ability to become self sufficient and continue with growing their own crops without having to buy expensive new seed every year. 

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 09, 2011 02:18 PM (vKRHm)

I garden. I use heirloom seeds/plants for these reasons (and some others posted further down).  I also choose to not use chemicals in my garden. I'm fortunate that I can make that decision. If I had to rely on my garden exclusively for sustenance, I might decide differently. I have found that companion planting; e.g., basil next to tomatoes keeps the bugs down. Apparently, the bugs that love tomatoes hate basil. Now, if I could only catch that bastard rabbit that keeps eating my Kentucky Blue Wonder pole bean, I blast him out of existence and make rabbit stew.

141 no good deed

I had the joy of introducing Norman Bourlag to all of the naysayers.  Every time they'd espouse some hippie meme about the environment, I used him as an example of innovation allowing us to avert the so-called "population bomb" incorrectly predicted by Erlich and his minions.

142

eating my Kentucky Blue Wonder pole bean

That sounds positively pornographic!

143 Tom Clancy had Gore's and the other envirotard's shit figured out years ago.  A shame his fix of dropping them unprepared in the middle of the Amazon jungle can't be applied here...

144 147
correct, and it is an outcome that is foreseeable BUT if you breed too disparate a set of characteristics the seed can in fact be fallow.....
Posted by: sven10077 at September 09, 2011 02:32 PM (AEIYh)

I wasn't previously aware, germination-wise, that some GM plants were in effect being grown with a "one and done" outcome insofar as the next generation of seeds goes.

145 I still want to know how if GM seeds don't germinate, how you get new GM seeds?

Posted by: dagny

You have breeder plants. Who produce GM seeds by controlled pollination. (You pollinate the breeder plants in a controlled manner such that the seeds they produce will be the GM food you want, but those individuals produced from that seed are sterile)

146

The American Bald Eagle at September 09, 2011 02:22 PM (ZDUD4)

American Bald Eagle, meet David Horowitz and Sean Bannion, comment number 100 of this thread.

Posted by: ed

So what am I? Chopped liver? Wait; I am. never mind.

147 I think (think, mind you) that the point was that next generation of seeds from plants grown from GM or other hybridized plants do not breed true vis-a-vis their parent seeds, so that in order to continue to realize the benefits from GM or hybridized seeds, you must purchase a new round of the parent seeds every year.

Posted by: No Whining at September 09, 2011 02:29 PM (UzjcV)

Monsanto specifically bred seeds to produce "Round Up Ready" plants. These are plants that can survive being doused with Round Up. It really cuts down on weeds in the field. I don't want to eat something that's been doused in a substance that effective. I'm not Round Up Ready.

148

So what am I? Chopped liver?

No, but would you like to be?

149 Gah. Is the SCOAMF still talking? The DOW is down 334.67 points.

150 Solar and wind power are Bad

... Solyndra ...

151 If I am not mistaken the inability of the GM seeds to germinate second generation offspring was a condition the eco-tards wanted in before they would agree to them being distributed.

The produced the "kudzoo-ization of the agri-world" scare.

152

I eat only organic food.

Because...inorganic food breaks my teeth.

153

Dagny & others interested....re: GM crop originators.

Been searching..... Looks like Archer Daniels Midland is a GM orginator. Monsanto is probably the biggest. Nestle and Cargil seem to be getting some heat for it too.

Never have searched for a 'list' of the agri-business names who are originators of GM seeds..... Damn. You'd think it was some sort of top secret list or something. Maybe I'm using the wrong search words.

 

154 Here's what the green crowd does not care to comprehend.  The reason coal, gas and oil continue to be the main source of energy around the world is that they remain the most efficient and inexpensive form of energy available to us.  All the talk about becoming less reliant on any of those three fuel sources remains a pipedream.  New sources of oil are being located all over the world, due to GPR (ground penetrating radar).  There are scientist that believe that oil is, in fact, a renewable resource (much to the chagrin of the green crowd).  The important matter is that through innovation and technology, the process of extracting these fuel sources continues to become more and more efficient.  They can extract fuel from the coal tar pits in Canada.  Drilling has become less and less intrusive.  The problem is that, thanks to the SCOAMF, the process is being made more difficult through bureaucracy.

155 152 No Whining,

it is not usually a feature but a bug....

think about the normal random splits in genetic expression, you are going to experience the same thing when GMs breed outside of a controlled environment....

in the same sense that I as a primarily anglo-teutonic male have brown hair with hazel eyes I carry non-triggered genetic data that has not expressed....

if I have three sons I can easily have a blonde or a red head depnding on which genes I took that did not trigger, I also statistically do not carry the trigger for brown eyes but do carry both green and blue.

Genetics cannot easily map out in a non controlled environment precisely what combinations will trigger, I can map probability however.

The problem occurs when the intermingling of the various DNA and traits have combinations that kill or impede the reproductive system expression of a sample.

If only I could figure out who Gore was going to marry next and alter her genome to cancel him out.

156
The problem with allowing someone to "patent" something like seeds is that they are able to control a food source directly. Many farmers have been intimidated by Monsanto into switching over. They actually have a division that will go after the farmers not using the GM seed, check the crop to see if they can find any cross contamination and then go after them in court if they find it. The farmers have to settle because they don't have the resources to fight Monsanto.

The jury is still out on the safety of GM seeds though I have listened to one scientist talk who found a definite problem feeding GM grain to rats. He said that it had more to do with the damage done to the plant DNA during the modification process then the actual gene being inserted, in other words you don't really know what you may end up with.

157

Sterile food plants are not a new idea.  Seedless grapes have to be reproduced by propagating cuttings, as I recall.  Lemons (as we know them these days) do not breed true either. 

The only beef I have is one that is largely the fault of our government.  If the wind blows GM pollen from the neighboring field into yours, you shouldn't be held liable for breaking someone's patent.  That was a BS ruling.

The third world farmers have plenty to worry about, but GM crops are not the highest on that list.  They're much more worried (or should be) about the next assinine scheme the current political boss is cooking up to steal his land, cut off his water supply, kill his workers, steal his crop, or murder his family. 

158 153 MtM,

which is a fascinating thing if we ever get space exploration on a colonization scale rolling....

it means that botanical engineering will become a vital national asset and be one of the four or five most important jobs on the way to the next place....

astounding really what they can do.

159 164 CW,

if we had a sane and even halfway ostensibly neutral court they'd invoke some secular version of "act of god" and be done with it....

the notion that a genespliced bull screwing another farmer's cow  if it gets loose and being able to sue the cow owner is preposterous...there was no contract involved no purchase and no theft....

IP laws have gone to the point of insane

160

The greenies and PBS crowd are trying to claim that there is some sort of an evil plot on the part of the GM seed producers, to eradicate the 'natural' varieties of plants which produce fertile seeds.

I don't know if this is true or not......I think the idea of tinkering with the genetics of our edible crop plants to come up with bigger, more vigorous high-yield varieties is one of those good ideas that may have some unintended side effects........Like so many other things. 

But it is sobering to think that we may end up losing our 'heirloom' varieties as a side effect of this tinkering.

161 168 CMajH,

I can empathize with the fear, BUT it is not as though mankind has not bred plenty of foodstuffs out of existence intentionally or not....

if GM F becomes the only way to feed ourselves we've sorta failed as a species anyway....

always bothers me that the Utopian does not look out for new worlds and oceanic terrain to conquer but worries about dividing up the cookie crumbs left on the table here....

one day we should have mankind dispersed enough so no single ELE kills the race

162

169... one day we should have mankind dispersed enough so no single ELE kills the race

--------

I heartily agree, Sven.

Imho, we need an all-out, balls to the wall, aggressive space exploration program.....for several reasons.

Such a program would put millions of people to work, doing something exciting and forward-looking. As a species, we are at our best when we are exploring new territories.....instead of exploring new neurotic perversions which lead us nowhere.

The by-products of an aggressive space program would be new technologies and products that we don't even know about yet.

This is why China and Russia are in a space race right now....while we have been taken out of the running. ( 

163 We will not lose our 'heirloom' varieties. There are various doomsday seed stockpiles throughout the world. Biggest being in Sweden. The US has a couple of large vaults also.

164 Correction- Norway not Sweden.

165
Correction- Norway not Sweden.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 09, 2011 03:08 PM (ZaTQU)

As in Helsinki, Sweden......

166 Got into a Facebook arguement with a fraternity bro of mine over global warming. He was a business major and a lib, I was double major Elec. Engineering/Physics. His big answer to me 'I thought you were smarter than that.' Oooh he burned me LOL

167 That millions of people may be killed, and that is considered an acceptable price to pay for some ridiculous abstraction.

That's when it isn't a feature. There are plenty of folks who think they'd be better off if the other nine-tenths of us were dead.

168 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

169 #173 sorry I don't get it?

170 177, its a line from Die Hard (by a dumb reporter).

171 When the evironmentalists get their way, you guys can enjoy the abundance of energy we have in Nigeria, where sometimes, there is no electricity for weeks, not even for a few seconds. So those who can afford it (like my family) get to spend large amounts of money for petrol or diesel to run generators, probably only at night to save money. And then, those live in tiny flats or houses get to bring the generators into their homes to avoid theft and then we get stories of whole families dying of carbon monoxide families. Those who can't afford generators or petrol at all get to bask in the heat and darkness. At least, even though we have about 1.7% of the earth's population, I'm pretty sure we don't use even 1% of the energy generated. That has to count for something, right? Stupid/evil environmentalists.

172 @171, Hell, there are plenty of people doing good business in heirloom seed right now. Companies like John Scheepers (Kitchen Garden Seeds) will sell you either heirloom or F1 hybrids; they got plenty o'both.

173 Marvelous article, Ace. As one who used to believe one could actually talk to liberals and find common ground, I long ago realized that in every aspect of life, it was conservatives who truly occupied the moral high ground. We were the ones who cared about people, cared about animals, cared about the Earth.

At the same time, and I'm sure totally unrelated, my host of friends decreased radically. BTW, I live in L.A.

Where I have particularly noticed how little regard libs have for the sanctity of life is in the animal realm, both wild and pet. Your average animal rights activist believes that all pet birds should be put to death. This is actually in the stated principles of the Humane Society of the United States. They believe that since all pet birds are foreign to our habitat and raised in captivity for the pet market, they are some kind of blot upon Gaia.

Several years back, during some sort of psittacine virus outbreak, these people got a chance to enact a bit of their genocidal plans, as many jurisdictions forced their way into homes and offed pet birds on the spot.

174 But it is sobering to think that we may end up losing our 'heirloom' varieties as a side effect of this tinkering.

Your fears do have some foundation, but you do realize, don't you, that we've been "tinkering" for centuries, and that many of our heirloom varieties are the result of such tinkering?

Take, for example, your favorite heirloom tomato variety. Or, for that matter, any tomato variety. The tomato itself, as we have known it for several centuries, is a man-developed fruit.

So while I would agree that we must proceed with the utmost caution regarding GMOs, we must not be unduly afraid of them either.

175

There was an interesting interview with the CEO of Nestle Foods that showed up in the WSJ a couple of weeks ago.  He said that the Earth could grow enough food to feed 9 billion people.  But there's a big "if".

The Europeans are scared to death of genetically modified "Frankenfoods". 

The enviros piss and moan about seed companies selling hydrid seeds with high crop yields--because their farmer customers can't get new seeds for the next season from their crop. (Hybrid seeds don't reproduce well---it's sort of like the razor manufacture who'll sell you the razor for free, knowing you'll have to buy the replacement blades/hybrid seeds year after year.)

I say tough noogies--if the farmer can make twice the crop, he can afford to pay for the hybrid seeds.

And because some yo yo's in the USA are in love with ethanol, more than half of our corn crop is now used to make motor fuel.  Of course you may have noticed that milk, eggs, chicken, pork  and beef cost more at the store now--those critters have to compete with automobile gas tanks for the corn.

So you rotten bastards driving big SUVs (like me) with ethanol in the tank are starving poor Africans who can't get cornmeal to eat. 

Way I see it is that the EPA and the Sierra Club lied--and people died.

176

Now, if I could only catch that bastard rabbit that keeps eating my Kentucky Blue Wonder pole bean, I blast him out of existence and make rabbit stew.

Snare wire, peanut butter...some assembly required.

177 Welcome to the game. Dennis Prager has been preaching this all his life.

Here is his website of free 5 minute lessons that allows you to argue your conservative points to the libtards.

http://www.prageruniversity.com/

178 The problem with allowing someone to "patent" something like seeds is that they are able to control a food source directly.

Yeah, it's worrisome.  Patents are a source of contention in many different industries.  We definitely need to bring some balance and common sense back to the patent office.

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