1
High Speed Rail isn't gonna fund itself, you know.

2 We have to spend until the government is insolvent in order to save it. What don't you crackers bitter gun-clingers people don't understand?

3 Those SOB's, there will be hell to pay over this.

4 I'm so glad the adults are back in charge.

5 If you ask me if I think that we need to spend money to avoid bankruptcy, I'd say yes.

6 Obama is running America like a union thug. Of course they are going to raid the pension fund. That is what union bosses do. Why do you think the feds want control of your IRA????

7

Semi OT:

This will piss you off:

Gov. Jerry Brown not giving up on tax hikes to help California budget The governor is expected to ask lawmakers to approve some tax hikes first and seek voter approval later.

"Even Democratic leaders and the governor's union backers, doubting the odds of a tax measure passing at the ballot box, are pushing Brown to break his pledge and forgo voter input.

 
"Go get a deal done," said David Kieffer, executive director of the state council of the influential Service Employees International Union, in a challenge to Brown and the Legislature. Californians "would vote the taxes down," he said, and "they don't actually need to be involved in this decision.""

http://tinyurl.com/5vu4f89

No need to worry taxpayers' pretty little heads. Just give your money to our communist and union thug (but I repeat myself) lords and masters commissars.

8
They're going to keep "raiding" until there is no choice but to cut spending raise taxes.

9 Sounds like a blatant attack on old people... and children...  and children who would otherwise grow up to be old people if their pensions hadn't been raided by the government.  Oh well.  Fuck 'em.

10 Well, there goes my pension.

11

 

"Here I shit.  My hole is full of soap.

I think I'll kiss her snatch and pee,

before they cornhole me."

         --Snakeshit, Shake-Shit...ah, Bullshit 

12

No need to worry taxpayers' pretty little heads. Just give your money to our communist and union thug (but I repeat myself) lords and masters commissars.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (IdCuw)

Yeah, what's wrong with that?  I mean, it's working so well for Illinois right now.  They raised taxes 58% in some cases and that state is just a rockin and a rollin right now, isn't it?

13 Geithner has a number of conservative means by which he can keep the government afloat for several months but he won't use them. Instead, he'll choose all the wrong/liberal ideas. Raiding pensions is only the first step.

14 Let's hear Monty weigh in here. How many other tricks and fiscal gimmicks can the Treasury pull? Possibly dozens. There seems to be no end to the road that accomodates the kicking can.

15 Priorities people!

16 How can you raid unfunded pensions?

17
one word: shady

18 Posted by: izoneguy at May 16, 2011 03:23 PM (83mM1)
Dude, I believe that they already have control over my IRA and 401k!
The good news is that now you don't have to plan for retirement--the liberals are going to do it for to you.

19 Love it. I'm expecting a newfound respect from federal employees for spending discipline.  Can't get enough of that sweet, sweet big gubmint spending? Well, Uncle is gonna need access to your pension funds to keep the gravy train flowing. bwahahahaha

20 Well taking from the super generous federal pension plan is a good thing. Its an area that needs to be cut back anyway. Especially the pensions for the congress critters. /Barney Frank hardest hit (I wish)

21 So the first thing they do is raid the pension funds, because that's not current spending, and they figure that will be replaced.

We should have seen it coming because they have done it twice before with SS funding. Increase taxes and then spend spend spend. It is normal for Dems.

Besides, this is simply an accounting measure to place a veneer of legality on the debt ceiling bust. They a re simply moving zeros around in their databases.

22

How can you raid unfunded pensions?

Federal pensions are funded.  It's the state pension system that's boned.

Well, until now that is.

23
What ever happened to that ~$700B in unused funds Ace posted about a few months ago?

24 Called Feinstein's office.  After I brought that to one of her staff's attention she gave me the basic response:  "I'm not here to offer my opinions."

25 There seems to be no end to the road that accomodates the kicking can.

But in the end, there will be only chaos bankruptcy. 

An ethereal fiat currency cannot stand long against the unyielding reality of our entitlement crisis and 50+ years of fiscal mismanagement. 

26 But go ahead and make jokes about how socialist Canada is.

27 OT & Double post.. But I have to spread the word of Cain!

Herman Cain Remix -  Please enjoy!

28

Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.

29 Raiding federal pensions is only the first step.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 16, 2011 03:25 PM (lor8

The scary thing is that it IS only the first step--I can hardly wait to find out what the next step will be.

30
Breaking news, everyone.

The Debt Ceiling has revealed it is gay in its memoir.

31

Geithner, who has already suspended a program that helps state and local government manage their finances

Words fail me.

32

Let the government shut down. Force a vote on this thing and force some tough choices to be made. Stand your effing ground! Stop compromising. If the reps allow them to "negotiate" small symbolic cuts in order to keep it afloat, they are just as bad. (I think they are actually) We're at a point in this nation that we have to make some actually changes.

33 >>Federal pensions are funded.


Is there some kind of lock box I haven't heard of?

34 Just the tip.

I promise.

35 The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

36

Yeah, what's wrong with that?  I mean, it's working so well for Illinois right now.  They raised taxes 58% in some cases and that state is just a rockin and a rollin right now, isn't it?

Yeah, but here's the kicker: the communist union thug and his lackey, Jerry Brown, don't want to submit the tax increase to the voters because they figure it'll be turned down.

So they're going to fucking do it anyway, just without a vote, because they know they would lose one. Who can say "taxation without representation?" I can!

37 The wheels are starting to come off, visibly.  Nice timing for the political fortunes of Barack "The Jihadi Killer" Obama.

38 35 The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (CZBRL)

--Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.

39 Judging by the way they tried to enact amnesty several times, by trying to rename it, my guess is that some very creative accounting is in our future which allows them to borrow more without actually calling it debt.  The crack ho's gotta have their fix.

40 Time to cash out of my 401k and open up an offshore account.  Fuck the penalties, I think I'll make out better than staying put and letting it get raped by Geithner.

41 39, I'll beat you with a pipe (clink, clink) if your answer is noooo......

42 I won't cum in your mouth.... I promise!

43

very creative accounting is in our future which allows them to borrow more without actually calling it debt

Have you been paying attention to what the Fed is doing?

We passed that exit about twenty miles back.

44
...... and you clingers thought we were kidding......

45

So, how long will it take to burn through the pension plans of every federal worker and retiree?  3 months?  6 months? 

46
speaking of taxes...

Is Claire McAsswipe under ethics investigation? She should be.

47 I take it "treasury raids" aren't as much fun as "panty raids".

48 Put it another way... at some point, does it not look like the government is just making this shit up as it goes along? Because: they are. What if Treasury told us they are "borrowing" against, say, the value of federal lands? Or future tax revenue? Or the value of GM and Chrysler? (Well, that wouldn't be much.) Looking at the article, it only says Geithner wants to borrow from retirement funds for federal workers. Who approves the lending? What precisely is lent? At what terms? Is the lent "money" unavailable for other uses? Why? Why not? Are there any limits to the terms? Can Treasury borrow at .0001% for 100 years? Who knows? The opacity of the federal purse and its apparent infinite elasticity should make everyone very suspicious.

49 thanks Ace for posting about this.  When I put the link up this morning I was so very upset.  Well, I guess they can't raid social security anymore, been there done that and all. and medicare and medicade are done and fannie and freddie are more sore than the chicken.  So, the next thing is federal pensions and the next thing after that is your pension?  I remember a couple of wall street jobs writing what everyone thought were conspiracy type articles about federal pensions a couple of months ago.  Hm wonder if those guys are going to come out and say "yep, we were right".

50 43 I won't cum in your mouth.... I promise! Posted by: Tim Geithner at May 16, 2011 03:33 PM Go right ahead, I don't mind!

51

Smart political move. Get the government employees hopping mad, because they always vote, thus ensuring Congressmen will kowtow to them and raise taxes on the rest of us.

Or raise the debt ceiling, which is a tax increase set in the future.

Here in Dallas County, only 10 percent of us voted in the municipal elections just concluded. If just one-fourth of those are government workers, you can see why there have been and will be no spending cuts, but only tax increases.

52

Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

Hey, anyone know where there's a big pile of unused money sitting around?

53 The Debt Ceiling has revealed it is gay in its memoir. Lemonade for everyone!

54 Theme song!!!

55 The issue now before the Republicans is that any raising of the debt limit cannot be used to refund the Federal pension program.  Those Federal workers need to have the same thing that's in my Social Security program:  A big fat I.O.U. signed by TuboTax Timmy.

It's a matter of fairness, you know.

And, yeah, I know that there's no such thing as an SS pension.  SCOTUS settled that long time ago.  But if Congress is still going to sell it as one, I might as well use that therm also.

56

--Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.

Posted by: logprof at May 16, 2011 03:31 PM (BP6Z1)

I'm older than Steyn. I just don't get the coverage.

57

Words fail me.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (B+qrE)

The jokes write themselves.

58 Let me ask a simple question, do you think the Federales loosing their investment (ha ha) in their pension fund will decide to become conservative? We all know all Government Pension Funds are ponzi schemes. So who among the Fed workforce will decide to go on strike? BTW, what is the vesting period for Fed Pensions. Military has to reach 20 years active service. Not sure on the GSers.

59

So, how long will it take to burn through the pension plans of every federal worker and retiree?  3 months?  6 months? 

Posted by: Jimbo at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM

You think there's really money in those?

60 What's wrong with raiding public pension funds?

61 The measure wonÂ’t have an impact on retirees because the Treasury is legally required to reimburse the program.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

62

Is there some kind of lock box I haven't heard of?

Yes, it's right next to Al Gore's Social Security lock box.  It's on the top shelf in the back right hand corner of the Library of Congress.

But seriously folks, they are funded the same way Social Security is (which in itself scares the shit out of me), without near the liability.  But no, the is no guarantee here either.  It's just that the Federal system structurally set up to fail like the state systems are.

The Federal pension plan changed from the fantastically generous CSRS to the FERS (Federal Employee Retirement System) in 1986.  FERS is less generous and requires higher contributions than CSRS.  Even with that, it's much less generous than these state systems you're hearing about.  These days, if you're a Fed your retirement system is pretty much limited to what you personally sock away in your Thrift Savings Plan. 

So on behalf of those like me, I'd like to thank Tim Geither for the lack of a reach around.

 

63 Go right ahead, I don't mind!

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (rkrOv)

--That is as true figuratively as it is literally.

64 We promised Granny and Gramps a golden future where they would have cushy golden years, then spent the money for that and now have to steal the younger set's retirement to fund Granny and Gramps.  But we still have the promises!

65 I guess Don Lemon and I weren't meant to be.

66
AMERICA'S BACK!

67 Power of the Purse, its all we got.

68

I've been debating whether or not to open up a Roth IRA for a while now, and I can't seem to think of a good reason to do so now.

 

It essentially locks my money away where i can't get it should the government decide to revoke the tax benefits .

69 53

Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

 

Won't happen. Too many Senators and Congressmen get their campaign cash from folks with 401ks. This is a hit on those "valued" public employees. They can thank Sparky personally in November.

70 Geez and I thought the guys who said there will be no refunds this year were kidding.

71 You think there's really money in those?

Posted by: Barry Obama at May 16, 2011 03:36 PM (IN2A4)

With Geithner's personal accounting skills, I doubt that there is any more money in the Fed pension lock-box than there is in the SS lock-box.

Oh wait...

72
If I was Boehner, I'd be out there right now demanding the pay freeze for all cabinet czars.

And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.

73 Or we could just spend less, but of course that's not even a possibility.

A junkie's not gonna get clean, he's gonna steal your TV.

74 The measure wonÂ’t have an impact on retirees because the Treasury is legally required to reimburse the program.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Like I said, change the law when you raise the debt ceiling:  No refunding of Federal pension funds.

75 So now we'll see just how much guts Repubs have. Am not holding out any hope. It's going to be another game of kick the can.

76 And another thing.  I like to think that my IRA is safe from seizure thanks to the GOP majority in the House of Representatives.

77 Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 03:38 PM (Q5+Og)

When he came into office wasn't one of the first things he did was to raise their salaries, many double and triple, some quadruple?

Maybe he knew this was an eventuality so he wanted to get the cash to them up front?

78 Posted by: Fiona Apple at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (BP6Z1)

Call me in 11 years.

79 #53 Exactly.Look,we bailed GM and Chrysler out.We'll take the money that they pay us back with and pay you back.We promise. I am beyond discusted with these people.

80 Damn that was an old and nasty sock.

81

And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.

Would you happen to have her number?

82 Didn't some president take all the gold in private hands in the country or something?

83 So are we all Irish now?

84 So he is raising the old Civil Service pension dues, the federal matching dollars for the Thrift Savings Plan, or the special Pension funds for Congressman?

85 And since the Federal pension funds are funded, does that mean that stocks and bonds are going to fall, with all that funding leaving?

86

And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.

Eeech, no thanks.  That overbite would be a killer

87

Yes, it's right next to Al Gore's Social Security lock box.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:37 PM (sbV1u)

What? I think there's been a misunderstanding.  I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box."

88

Jean, they are going after FERS.  The Fed retirement system.  Congress isn't in FERS so, well you know, they'll be fine.

But they will apreciate knowing you were concerned about their futures.

89 Told you, assholes.

90 raising --> raiding

91 What? I think there's been a misunderstanding. I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box." The cock box is out? The cock box is out??

92

And then I'd demand Debbie Wasserman Schultz to blow me.

Eeech, no thanks.  That overbite would be a killer

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 16, 2011 03:41 PM (sbV1u)

Oooo!  Oooo!

I volunteer!

93

^{Posted by: A Guy With A Fist Up His Ass at May 16, 2011 03:39 PM (gO39k)}

 

Back from Fire Island, Sam?

94

OT:

Did I miss something?  Is it national coming out day or soemthing?

The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.

What the hell?

95 Double double, lemony bubble

96 If I was Boehner, I'd be out there right now demanding the pay freeze for all cabinet czars.

And then I'd demand But first, Debbie Wasserman Schultz to will blow me.

FIFY

97 The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player. Guys that like playing with balls...

98 What about our military retirement? I know it's part of the military budget but they want to cut that too.Looks like twenty years of putting up with nothing but bullshit is in the wind.

99 So he is raising the old Civil Service pension dues, the federal matching dollars for the Thrift Savings Plan, or the special Pension funds for Congressman?

Posted by: Jean at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (WkuV6)

Screw a politician, it is to laugh!

Screw a peasant (even a Federal peasant), now that is what we do for entertainment!

100 Sean - I thought FERS was basically a Federal 401K, with match and employee contribution to a bunch of stock funds -- you mean government owns all of those stocks, not the individuals?

101 92 What? I think there's been a misunderstanding. I didn't say "lock box," I said "cock box."

The cock box is out? The cock box is out??

Posted by: Don Lemon at May 16, 2011 03:43 PM (AZGON)

*KNOCK*

*KNOCK*

102
Debt Ceiling is gay, too, don't forget.

103

Maria Cantwell at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (BP6Z1)

Can't I just get Kristi Noem to call me?  Please?

104

Watch those assholes go for our 401k's next.It will happen.

Posted by: ziptie at May 16, 2011 03:28 PM (nj7LO)

 

I'm glad I got out of mine.  I'm actually starting to rethink my Roth account.  Those would be next.  Secession is really starting to look good to me.

105

It's not their money, it's a resource that belongs to all of America.

Of course it belongs to some Americans more than others.

106
Cantwell is bangin that nerd from CNBC, right?

107 This is serious stuff.  There is a lack of trust here now.  We may think little of these folks but heck they are entitled to not have their pensions raided cause congress can't stop spending.

108 Don Lemon asked me if he could show me his lock box after the show.

109

Sean - I thought FERS was basically a Federal 401K, with match and employee contribution to a bunch of stock funds...

No, you're thinking of the Thrift Saving Plan.  That's an accurate description.  FERS, though, is a supplement to the TSP.  To give you an example of how thin FERS is, I've been a Fed for 2 1/2 years.

There's 2K in my FERS account.  So, it's not like FERS is a good deal.

110
Has anyone called Don Lemon courageous, yet?

111

OT:

Did I miss something?  Is it national coming out day or soemthing?

The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.

What the hell?

Are you trying to tell us something Circa?

112 Shoot.I own a little bit of gold too. I'm sure thier giving that a thought too.Nothing is safe around these people.

113 111, Nope, I did hear cocksucker though.

114 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been.  Transparency for all.

115

And since the Federal pension funds are funded, does that mean that stocks and bonds are going to fall, with all that funding leaving?

 

Thanks to "QE-Infinity!" -  you will never have to worry about stock market volatility!

116

Somebody remind me again why we have a debt ceiling if we always keep raising it?

I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now! No more excuses, just get your asses in there and get started and don't come out until you've reduced spending to at least '06 levels.

117 I believe Mooooochele Obama is a shape shifter. After I have a 6-pack she shape shifts into a Wookie !!!!!!!!!!!!

118 Is this the lemon you guys are fixated on?

Ok, if it is him, what did he do that is "courageous"?

119

Ace, you're talkin' crazy!!

I, for one, am stunned there is even such a thing as a federal retirement fund that actually has a substantial amount of money in it!

120 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been.  Transparency for all.

Posted by: Cherry π at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (+sBB4)

OK, fine.  I banged me some of that sweet, sweet Obama booty.

121 I just want to take this opportunity to mention how much I love experiencing the vaginal sex with a wide variety of female companions.

122 Raid pension funds? 'Bout time you guys got serious.

123 So, to avoid that possibility, they made up yet another double-standard "We can do this but you can't, just because" theory, called the "one-way ratchet theory."

Direct parallel in the old Brezhnev doctrine.  Once communism is established somewhere, it cannot be disestablished.  That idea works for awhile, until it doesn't anymore, usually in a catastrophic fashion.  Good times.  

124 Mooooochele can come in my mouth anytime !

125

In the end it does not matter one bit "where" the money comes from.  There is no 'where.'  It's not like there are big piles of money sitting around in little cubby holes waiting to be spent.  Money comes into existence as it is spent, just as taxes paid simply go out of existence once paid.

The real question is, what threats are being made?  In this case they are making a threat against the pension benificiaries - suggesting that at some point those will go unpaid.  I believe other similar threats will be made against various stakeholders in the current system. 

Part of the folly of the current system is the refusal to acknowledge how the fiat money system works - we pretend it's still hard money.  The government doesn't have to "borrow" a dime.  It does so to control interest rates, and to "sterilize" new money created by spending so the circulating supply is theoretically unaltered.  In the end we're going to be forced to "print" more money, because the cuts will never be made.  We'd be better off just doing that now - the borrowing approach isn't doing anything other than increase the overall impact of the overspending by compounding it with interest that must be paid.  We'd be better off risking inflation.  That automatically creates a real-time tax on everybody, shared equally (% wise) by all holders of dollars.  Suddenly everyone has a skin in the game.

 

126 84 So are we all Irish now?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (9hSKh)

Erin Go Bragh!

127 I demand to know where the penis of every anchor has been. Transparency for all. Just no pictures, please.

128 Posted by: pep at May 16, 2011 03:51 PM (GMG6W)

tell us about it...

129 The debt ceiling is artificial since the budget defines planned federal expenditures.   Therefore, there is no need to actually define a debt ceiling since it has effectively been set by Congress.  Of course, this might be construed as requiring that Congress actually, you know, pass a budget.  But that's just a transparent detail.

130 Sorry about the mutiple posts,but I'm really worried and pissed at the same time.

131 Va-gi-na.  That's a funny word.

132 Things will not pleasant when I get home tonight.  My husband is furious over this, as am I.

133
They're calling that kid in CT 'courageous.' The high school senior who vandalized the high school (or some such thing) and got suspended and banned from his prom.

134 38 35 The "one-way ratchet theory" was mine. I'm sueing.

Posted by: Ronster at May 16, 2011 03:30 PM (CZBRL)

--Actually, Steyn has been using that metaphor for years.

George Will has been using that for 30 years.

135

I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (d0Tfm)

Remember all the trouble we had getting Horton's buddies to hear us?  There aren't quite enough Whos screaming at the top of their lungs.

Yeah, you just thought it was an allegory for the American post-war occupation of Japan.

136 I am not computer savvy, so I can't link, but Judge Rolls-he was shot at the Gabby Gifford event-was ruling on the constitutionality of this issue.  He was a federal judge, and some reports said that he was stopping to tell her of his decision.

137 Erin Go Braghless!

138

I really wish someone would stand up and just tell those idiots to stop spending right fucking now! No more excuses, just get your asses in there and get started and don't come out until you've reduced spending to at least '06 levels.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (d0Tfm)

Like who? 

I, too, wish it could work that way.  But alas - it doesn't.   

139 Erin Go Braghless!

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (RPYjQ)

Remind me again why I read this blog!

140 138 Erin Go Braghless!

Posted by: USS Diversity at May 16, 2011 03:55 PM (RPYjQ)

Who is this Erin and how do I get her newsletter?

141 Would love to hear someone in Congress propose: "Let's raise the debt ceiling to $500 trillion. Right now. After all, everyone says the financial world will end if we cannot raise the ceiling and therefore pay our debts, so why keep returning here to do what we are told is inevitable anyway? C'mon guys, $500 trillion or bust."

142 95

OT:

Did I miss something?  Is it national coming out day or soemthing?

The CNN guy, the President of the Phoenix Suns, and now ESPN has a front pager about some former Villanova basketball player.

What the hell?

Posted by: Circa (insert Year Here) at May 16, 2011 03:44 PM (B+qrE)

Isn't this National Fapping Month? Maybe there is a link....

143 Erin Go Braghless! Milky flesh of the Emerald Isle.

144 Ok, if it is him, what did he do that is "courageous"?

It's more "fabulous" than "courageous".

145 "Grant Hill is straight, and Don Lemon is gay, and yet the homophobic response to a straight black man's expression of support for the LGBT community shows just why Lemon's decision to come out is so timely and important." link, it's huff poo poo but maybe then don lemon will stop posting so much about lemons

146

Thanks to "QE-Infinity!" -  you will never have to worry about stock market volatility!

Posted by: Ben Bernanke at May 16, 2011 03:49 PM (SMGgV)

 

The paper and cotton producers are ecstatic with the expectation of increased production of new paper money.

147 Isn't this National Fapping Month? That's every month at AOS.

148 As a federal employee who contributes to a retirement fund, I am fully confident that these jackbooted weasels will replace every penny. Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.

149 You know who is going to get blamed if the pensions are raided right?  It's going to be all on Boehner's head, it will be all his fault cause he was so strident about spending.  That's the way the narrative is being crafted at this very moment.

150

"Suddenly everyone has a skin in the game."

 

Yep. Our system is fucked because of the fact that the all citizens do not share equally in the support of the system. A flat tax would start to fix that. Doing away with racially gerrimandered districts would also help. As long as a demographically insignificant minority can be sheltered from economic reality while being cosseted and given disproportionate non-competitive representation, then the concept of equality flys out the window. For some reason I don't see our post-racial President transforming these inequities for the good of all. I wonder why?

151 So are we all Irish now?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at May 16, 2011 03:40 PM (9hSKh)

Erin Go Bragh!

Posted by: NC Ref at May 16, 2011 03:52 PM (/izg2)

Oy und be gattin' meh a point yeh wee coont!

152 Would love to hear someone in Congress propose:

"Let's raise the debt ceiling to $500 trillion. Right now. After all, everyone says the financial world will end if we cannot raise the ceiling and therefore pay our debts, so why keep returning here to do what we are told is inevitable anyway? C'mon guys, $500 trillion or bust."

Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:57 PM (AZGON)

Actually, I'd like to see this, too.  The debt ceiling is just a foolish, arbitrary number that doesn't really mean a damn thing.  I would also prefer that we stopped this nonsense about "borrowing" money when we have no need to do so.  I don't think it's the government's job to provide people with a savings vehicle. 

 

153

Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.

Oh, I feel your pain.  I really do. 

Because I fully expect to be royally screwed right as I retire as a Fed.

154 Isn't this National Fapping Month?

That's Ramadan.  So, which are bigger, the callouses on Muslims' foreheads, or the callouses on their foreskins?

155 Am I missing something here. The debt ceiling puts a cap on borrowing... so they borrowed from pension funds?

156 Posted by: Passably Affable at May 16, 2011 04:02 PM (2Ukpz)

maybe the chinese won't lend to us anymore.

157 one word: shady   Posted by: Soothsayer

Indeed.  A good meme to start using; Shady Scheme.

158

The scary thing is that it IS only the first step--I can hardly wait to find out what the next step will be.

Posted by: Hrothgar at May 16, 2011 03:29 PM (yrGif)

Appropriating and nationalizing private retirement accounts. Say goodbye to your 401K.....as if you weren't losing it anyway.

 

159 abc news is really really really pushing mittens, like really.  Using "well he has the most money" as the reason.

ugh

160 Am I missing something here. The debt ceiling puts a cap on borrowing... so they borrowed from pension funds? That is my whole point... this is all fiction. Ceilings that aren't really ceilings, caps that aren't caps. Government can cook its own books and will do so no matter what anyone says to the contrary.

161 When are they knocking on Beck's door to ask for his gold?

162 ndeed. A good meme to start using; Shady Scheme. President Shady Scheme. I like it.

163

Posted by: Sub-tard Goober at May 16, 2011 04:01 PM (Q5+Og)

Pretty good comment for a sub-tard.  But you forget - all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. 

164 I don't like this shady scheme.   -47 in the last hour of trading.

165

Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway, in the form of "special", non-marketable govt account series (GAS) Treasury bonds. This falls under the "intragovernmental" debt component of the total public debt. The other component is the "debt held by the public".

        The latter represents real money borrowed from the bond market, real money that changes hands. The trick is to lower the intragov debt by the same amount you raise the other to keep the sum from increasing over the limit.

    Here's the trick. Treasury redeems the GAS bonds with real money borrowed. That lowers the intragov by the same amount the debt held by the public increases. Net zero change in total public debt.

     Now, the pension fund then takes that money and gives it back to Treasury, "reloaning" it. This latter "loan" *does not count toward the debt limit*. 

   They are merely replacing one type of IOU that counts toward the debt limit for one that does not.

    These trust funds are not real and never have been -- they are just accounting gimicks that let Treasury spend the excess revenue slated for those trust funds.

 

  

166

Oh, I feel your pain.  I really do. 

Because I fully expect to be royally screwed right as I retire as a Fed.

Yes - the same time that social security and medicare are bust.  Tent cities - coming to a town near you!

167 for conservatives and America, is to just spend less, of course

And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.

I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along

168 They're calling that kid in CT 'courageous.' The high school senior who vandalized the high school (or some such thing) and got suspended and banned from his prom.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 16, 2011 03:54 PM (gM4zK)

He didn't vandalize the high school.  He put up a big sign at night asking someone to prom so she would see it in the morning pulling into school.  It was a stupid suspension. 

169 publius, that makes me feel so much better..

170 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt.

In the 12 years of Republican Congress, average annual deficit:  $104 billion

Erg's got nuthin.

171 How many flavors of gruel are there?

172 TIMMEH!

173

Erg's got nuthin.

Never stopped him before.

174

As a federal employee who contributes to a retirement fund, I am fully confident that these jackbooted weasels will replace every penny. Sure. Good Lord, I'll be eating cat food. And not the good stuff....the generic crap.

Cheri, I'll put a bowl of milk outside on my back porch every night to help supplement your diet.

175 Because: ratchet. This is were Obama might have screwed up. He went too far, too fast. If he had just continued incremental left-ward changes he could have moved the US a whole lot further left and kept it that way. But he got all radical and made BIG changes and prompted a counter-revolution (tea-party) that possibly could undo stuff that was thought to be undoable. It's not a sure thing but it's on the table now in a way that was thought non-sensical in 2005.

176 I feel as though whoever said both huck and the donald didn't want to oversee the collapse of our economy might be right.

177 How many flavors of gruel are there?

Gruel?  You wish.  It's Crusty Brand Imitation Gruel for you.  4 out of 5 orphans can't tell the difference.

178

Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway

Same thing with Social Security.

We're fucked....screwed.....boned...

Can we start using the "R" word yet?

179

How many flavors of gruel are there?

Gruel?  You wish.  It's Crusty Brand Imitation Gruel for you.  4 out of 5 orphans can't tell the difference

Every tenth box has a rusty metal Krusty-O

180
is it shady or shadey?

Anyway...

President Cockamamie Shady Scheme

181 The Federal government is tapped out ahead of schedule AND the Treasury is grabbing money from public pensions? Heh. And the sheeple wonder why they had to announce Bin Laden's death two weeks ago. Bread and Circuses....

182

Guys, this "raiding the pension funds" is just an accounting trick. The civil service pension fund holds nothing but govt. IOUs anyway

Same thing with Social Security.

We're fucked....screwed.....boned...

Can we start using the "R" word yet?

Reanimation?

No, no, It's too early to release the zombies. That will come all in due time

183 hey why not create a giant zombie bank and move the federal debt into there?

184 Get your wheelbarrow wallets ready.

185

168 for conservatives and America, is to just spend less, of course

And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.

As I recall Clinton left Bush with CRA and a ballooning real estate market based on 0% equity and a nice calling card on 9/11 for his impetuous wiener explosion on an intern's blue dress. But I could be wrong, but I'm not.

186 Bush caused me, erg?

187 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt.

I love how eggamoobymuffin refuses to acknowledge any budget from 2007 forward.

188 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.

I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along

Posted by: Lucifer, John Ashcroft's personal savior at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (BHSVg)

Oh I see.  You think Presidents pass budgets.

189 You know there have been a lot of articles that show that Clinton's surplus was nothing but clever number manipulating and smoke and mirrors.  Maybe before you make those kinds of statements you should read one of those articles, not from the MSM, but the scholarly ones in a college library where the MBA's study them.

190 May I have your attention please?
Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

191

Oh I see.  You think Presidents pass budgets.

He's a smart one, isn't he?

Do you think they get gene therapy to have the gene removed that allows them to recognize double standards?

192 We're all Irish today?  In that case, I need to go grab my whiskey in order to Irish up my coffee.

193

 But he got all radical and made BIG changes and prompted a counter-revolution (tea-party) that possibly could undo stuff that was thought to be undoable.

Not so sure about that. We have nothing but a political class filled useless, spineless kleptocrat fucks who care only about being re-elected and getting theirs...and passing laws to ensure that while the rest of us are fucked.

I really have what little faith I had in our government. We are now a banana republic.

We don't have a functioning republic any more. The country club GOP let the left run roughshod, with the help of the media,  by making deals to keep them fat and happy.

Fuck it all. It's time to burn it down.

194 Anyone listening to this debate on Hannity?  Wow they are really pushing the narrative of "the republicans are in disarray" hard.

195 This has been talked about for a while- except everyone has dismissed it as "fringe." There was even a story on it on the Market Ticker last October.

Next step is to "confiscate" "private pensions."

196 I really have what little faith I had in our government. We are now a banana republic.
Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (AnTyA)

I told you that three years ago and all you do is ignore me...

197 A quick check reveals that the Republican Congress add 4.6T to the debt in 12 years.  Nancy added 4.5T that in just 3.5 years.

198 Posted by: shibumi at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (OKZrE)

well, with every thing so tightly censored, where else can someone say something like that but on conspiracy sites or little know financial sites or just on Zero Hedge repeatedly over the last year in the comments...

199 186 Get your wheelbarrow wallets ready.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 16, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)

Hobo skin wallets are excellent!  Lots of stretch and very durable.

200 We're closer to the fate of the European Union than we thought. They preach unity and progressivism, and now are starting to implement border controls. They preach common economic goals, but several nations are failing in a spectacular fashion. And not unlike SS and Medicare, these failures were predicted. All of them are suffereing, to some degree, of the asinine mentality of living for today, and burning all prospects for a future; economically, socially and demographically

201 Those of you who think Federal pension plans are "super generous":  not since the end of CSRS, over 20 years ago.  FERS depends heavily on the TSP fund, the "401k" where Federal employees can contribute to save for retirement, since the golden parachutes were discontinued long ago.  Now, I don't mind the fact that I've paid into Social Security and will not see one thin dime; I don't mind because of my grandparents, and now my parents.  But I draw the line at the Boomers, who suck the life out of entitlement programs by dint of sheer volume.  And by God, if I end up with a brass pin and a "gee we're sorry we took all your money" at the end of the day, there will be hell to pay.

202 Remember in 2008 when Democrats were accusing Bush and the Republicans of deliberately making things terrible just so Obama and the Democrats wouldn't be able to fix them, so that in 2012 Republicans could blame the Democrats for how terrible things are?

Thinking ahead to 2016, remember how the Democrats always accuse Republicans of what they themselves are guilty of?

203 Eating me already.

204 I really have what little faith I had in our government. We are now a banana republic.
Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (AnTyA)

I told you that three years ago and all you do is ignore me...

Posted by: mike bloomberg, graduation speaker extraordinaire at May 16, 2011 04:19 PM (k1rwm)

 

Your solution was to viilify business owners and ban trans fats. Fuck off Mike.

205 189 And yet, it was Republican administrations who exploded the debt. As I recall, Clinton left Bush with the surplus. Oh well.

I suppose if you're a knucklehead you just have to forget everything and make shit up as you go along

Posted by: Lucifer, John Ashcroft's personal savior at May 16, 2011 04:06 PM (BHSVg)

Oh I see.  You think Presidents pass budgets.

Posted by: FUBAR, Cultural Imperialist at May 16, 2011 04:14 PM (1fanL)
____________________

This.

It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function.

206 Those of you who think Federal pension plans are "super generous":  not since the end of CSRS, over 20 years ago. 

Posted by: Kerry at May 16, 2011 04:22 PM (a/VXa)

Yeah, The Man is always sticking it to...The...um...Man.

207

Part of the folly of the current system is the refusal to acknowledge how the fiat money system works - we pretend it's still hard money.

It's been said before, but since our money has no actual basis in reality why not just let Big Ben and TurboTax Tim print all the money we need and have a balanced budget every year? Why do they even need to talk about taxes or debt or any such thing, just print the money and we can all pretend that it actually has some real value. It's what we do right now.

208  This has been talked about for a while- except everyone has dismissed it as "fringe." There was even a story on it on the Market Ticker last October.

Next step is to "confiscate" "private pensions."

Posted by: shibumi at May 16, 2011 04:17 PM (OKZrE)

I'm not dismissing it as fringe. I've heard this since 2008.

Right after McCain and the media installed Petey in the WH, I was in a Delta lounge in Atlanta. I had a very frightening conversation with a man who started a financial house whose name you would recognize where he told me that even back then they considered this a possibility and were working on ways to position themselves against it. 

209

This.

It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function.

Posted by: Jay Guevara

You think that you have troubles? They used me, quoted me, took me to fancy parties, and then tossed me aside.

210

 

  And BTW, Treasury has the legal authority to do this "IOU swap" trick with only about $140B (they can't do with the entirety of the pension funds, nor can they do it with other trust funds according to the law). There's probably some other tricks clever Treasury lawyers can come up that have the same effect. From what I gather the drop-dead date is July 8th. At that point, they'll run out of tricks.

    But they can always change the law to allow more tricks, of course. One thing that is talked about it just to declare that the intragov debt doesn't count toward the limit and only the debt held by the public component does. That would immediately free up all $4.65T held in all the trust funds.

      This would be something the Repubs might do to allow them to raise the limit without raising it.

211

Cheri, I'll put a bowl of milk outside on my back porch every night to help supplement your diet.

You are too kind...purrrrr

212

When you have a White House who knows they can say something like this with impunity..

“I think there are discussions, even about transparency and developing rules about transparency that we need to be able to have quietly and behind closed doors.” – Daniel Gordon, White House staff

...they know they can get away with anything.

213 Posted by: George Orwell at May 16, 2011 03:34 PM (AZGON)

Not only that, but you hear from liberals how pensions are legally inviolable, etc, yet here they are doing what they say is unpossible.

214 The problem with the deficit, the debt, and the debt limit is that for the past 100 years we have been going full 'tard on it every year. Applying the law of "holes" it is like this.

We have Democrats that wish to dig with mega-steam shovels like they use in the open pit copper mines of Colorado.

We have Republicans that want to dig with a backhoe.

Sometime ago they passed a law that limited the depth of the hole. Just about every year since then they increase the maximum depth.

Now that there is a real fight over the depth the liars in office now want to use some kind of accounting lie to say it really isn't getting any deeper even though we continue to dig with that mega-steam shovel.

Oh, and any attempt to get rid of the digging at all is treated with contempt and scorn by the leaders of both Parties.

215 Posted by: publius at May 16, 2011 04:05 PM (VVB1 thanks for confirming my suspicion... one titanic accounting gimmick. Sheesh.

216 Does this debt ceiling make me look fat?

217 Isn't this basically the exact massive financial crime that Will Ferrell and Marky Mark just barely keep from happening in The Other Guys?

218 It's amazing how many liberals/ leftists/ communists/ Democrats/ progressives / whatever else they call themselves seem unaware of the Constitution, or how the government functions. Or at least, used to function, and God willing, one day will again function.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 16, 2011 04:23 PM (IdCuw)

Sadly, it's not just the left that thinks the President controls budgets.

I've pretty much given up trying to correct people on that because no one ever listens.

It's like watching people file a class-action suit against the tooth fairy.

219

Re 217: The thing to appeciate is that all the "trust funds", SS and everything are just one titantic accounting trick. The only source of funding for them are Uncle's ability to tax and borrow real money from the bond market. These "trust funds" are nothing but Bernie Madoff write large in trillions, not mere billions.

      And analogy is this: You've got a sorry Uncle, call him Uncle Sam. He blows money on beer and hookers and the like all the time. His poor wife, call her Auntie Social Security/Medicare makes her own money (payroll taxes). She tries to care for the family properly, buying the food and necessities out of her paycheck. But (until 2010) she was making more than the she was spending.

         Being repsonsible, she wants to save the money for a rainy day. So Uncle says, hey why don't you invest that money with me. She trusts him and gives in the money. He gives her IOUs in return. He even pays her interest on the IOUs, in the form of yet more IOUs (this is absolutely true -- interest payments to the trust funds are paid in yet more special GAS Treasury bonds, no joke).

     He of course takes that money and blows it. But even then, he's still spending more than he's taking in and has to run up the credit card (this is the debt held by the public, the real money borrowed).

     Now, when Auntie runs out of money and needs to cash in those IOUs, where's she going to get it? Only from Uncle. And where's he going to get the money? Well..... he can put it on the credit card, if they'll let him.

        That is what the "trust funds" are.

 

220 Haven't seen anyone predicting it? Well I have been right here on this vey blog for weeks. I said on Saturday we were going to hit the limit this week. But what do I know, I'm just the guy who said Trump never really wanted to be Prsident.

221 Help me Barack...help me...I am melting from exceeding the debt ceiling..........Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!

222

OT: Did I miss something?  Is it national coming out day or soemthing?

First!

223
Look, I just had to raid your college fund.  Just to pay a few bills that piled up over the holidays.  I'll put it back just as soon as the Super Bow is over.  I got a great tip. Dallas is going to cream the Steelers by at 21. You can take it to the bank.

224

When you have a White House who knows they can say something like this with impunity..

“I think there are discussions, even about transparency and developing rules about transparency that we need to be able to have quietly and behind closed doors.” – Daniel Gordon, White House staff

...they know they can get away with anything.

Posted by: beedubya at May 16, 2011 04:29 PM

They are beyond embarrassment or even caring.  Here's my (current) favorite.   This was in Politico on March 30. It is not from The Onion, hard as that is to believe:

“President Obama finally and quietly accepted his “transparency” award from the open government community this week — in a closed, undisclosed meeting at the White House on Monday…

...Obama met quietly in the Oval Office with Gary Bass of OMB Watch, Tom Blanton of the National Security Archive, Danielle Brian of the Project on Government Oversight, Lucy Dalglish of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, and Patrice McDermott of OpenTheGovernment.org, without disclosing the meeting on his public schedule or letting photographers or print reporters into the room...”

225

Hey wait a second.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I have a question.

Did Turbo-tax Timmy just raid the pension funds of the military?

226

Sooo... they borrow from an existing account, which they have to pay back...

1.  How is that LEGAL? The money was spent, by law... how does the Administration override the spending bills which put this money in place...

and

2. How does borrowing money you have to pay back NOT equal debt? The same debt that only CONGRESS can  authorize? (at least according to that antique and outdated document, the Constitution...).

227

and....

3. Profit?

228 Does anyone here understand this at all???

Back when social security was going bankrupt and rather than put it on a more solid footing they simply patched it enough so it would not go bankrupt on their watch (this includes Republicans, lot of blame to spread around here), I knew then that there is absolutely no resolve in our political class to fix this debt problem. Even some prominent Republicans were insulting those calling for a balanced budget amendment (a past era's equivalent of the Tea Party).

Now Boehner has succumbed to Beltway Disease (and I'm not real sure he was ever free of the virus); he's learned the routine -- say the right words but then do essentially nothing. You think he's going to risk his fat pension and future political prospects for you morons???

Is it possible the Democrats want the US to go bankrupt? Unless all of these idiots flunked basic math, they have to know this cannot continue forever -- and, quite frankly, the probability of a crash because of this unsustainable debt load is approaching 100% -- so what's their game?  I know modern liberals live in a cloud but surely they have to know this. If I were a liberal I'd be more than a little frightened that a crash could bring the end to my feverish dreams of Kindly Big Brother. Are they hoping the economic distress will allow them to raise taxes or even do away with the inflation indexing Reagan insisted on during his term?

I've yet to see a satisfactory explanation for this. Unless Democrats truly are that blind, they know what's going on but seem to want the worst to happen. That would indicate they think they will gain from the disaster somehow.

The GOP was blamed for the Great Depression and Democrats benefited from that, unfairly to a large degree, but is this perhaps what the Democrats hope to accomplish?  They do seem to have the mass media in their pockets.

(This is not an attempt to start another conspiracy theory -- it truly does not make sense to me)

229 Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has warned for months that the government would soon hit the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling — a legal limit on how much it can borrow.

And all the while in the background, a hundred foot tall neon sign has been flashing the words: STOP SPENDING.

230 So, Ryan's plan is "right wing social engineering" and radical because it proposes to make changes in medicare, an entitlement, for those who are not yet receiving benefits without having any effects on those currently collecting. But this plan, which affects the pensions of those who are already "entitled" to them, taking a bridge too far where Ryan feared to tread, is the plan our government comes up with. This, without a doubt, is the worst political class in our nation's history and might well be the last.

231

"Or we could just spend less, but of course that's not even a possibility."

You missed it: the sickening re-framing of the issue. "Spending less" is being turned into "defaulting on some of our obligations." Get that? Spending less is "defaulting." If we ever cut spending, we've "defaulted." Lord have mercy on us, we're doomed.

232 Uh, while this article blames Democrats for spending federal employee pension funds, remember that Republicans are in charge of the money. They already begun selling off America's assets, our infrastructure, mineral rights, water supply, gas, oil, timber, and will not be satisfied until we are strip-mined of every last dollar and every square inch of the country is corporate owned. If you like this style of country, you will love Haiti and Somalia....no government, all corporate blood-suckers stealing the wealth for the wealthy. Probably won't register with the loyalists until all your pensions evaporate and we are all living under bridges....

233 Well, that's another nail in the political coffin of Obama. What's he going to do next? Raid active duty TSP savings or tap our personal credit cards for a cash advance?