1 If Loughner had used a 1911, they would say that seven rounds is too many in a pistol.

2 The important thing is that it is clear that Loughner didn't actually hit anyone until after he had fired the handful of shots that the new ban would allow. So, clearly, limiting the size of the magazine would have saved everyone.

3 One thing I learned from this whole tragic event.
9mm rounds suck.

4 Banning everything with which a criminal or wacko could use as an instrument of mischief is the opposite of how I read the Constitution. Because that list is endless. Free men, however, should be trusted with them under a rule of law.

5

People who talk about "being a better shot" in times of extreme stress don't appreciate that ALMOST NOBODY gets as much practice as they "should" and what low light, stress, and other critical factors does to your ability to hit targets.

Most also believe in the undebatable stopping power of one bullet...

6

Make noise and lights.  Throw out a dozen 2# propane cannisters and a flare.  Shoot for result.  Empty your shit at the end of target shooting.

But Unka doesn't get to tell me what I can have.

7 At the very least, make it socially unacceptable to be aware of a Mark David Chapman-wannabee and not tell the proper authorities about it.

But, see, it's soooooo much easier to treat the symptoms than to actually do something about the disease...
And do they actually think that banning hi-cap magazines will keep criminals from obtaining/using them?  Hell, the damn things are flying off the shelves as we speak...

8 If Loughner had used a 1911, they would say that seven rounds is too many in a pistol.

Posted by: JB at January 19, 2011 09:16 PM (KKS7R)

What is the magic of a 1911?  According to reviews, cheaper .45ACP weapons are better?  what justifies the price?

9 I have only been in one real shooting situation, and I can testify that unless all your training is done in those circumstances, you are in a whole new world. So, be sure to train while others are shooting back.

10 Here's what I take away from the previous thread about CNN banning the word "crosshairs": It's okay for me to call Obama a stupid fuck, because "stupid fuck" is not promoting violence. So in the future is will not use the term "crosshairs" when I criticize Obama, I will call him a "stupid fuck", and that is acceptable. Because if I use the term "crosshairs" someone might take that as permission to open fire. But if I call him a "stupid fuck", no one is going to fuck him. At least no one with standards. Especially now that we know he has worms.

11 I went hunting every single day that I spent with my Grandfather. He had a 12 gauge. I had a Daisey. He shot Pheasants, Rabbits, etc. I shot nothing.

I support 100 round magazines!
Except for the Calico 100 round pistol that sucked.

12 I don't own anything that would use one, but I am unalterably opposed.  Tent - camel's nose.  Shall not be infringed means what it says.

13 Move further into the country and you can rip a clip from the H&K Model 19.  Nobody will show up to ask you about it.  True story.

14 What is the magic of a 1911?  According to reviews, cheaper .45ACP weapons are better?  what justifies the price?

I don't think too many people survive head shots with a .45acp.

I could be wrong...

15 One thing I learned from this whole tragic event.
9mm rounds suck.

Posted by: navybrat at January 19, 2011 09:19 PM (UK5kO)

Yep.  I always thought hubby was full of shit when he insisted that the only reason the military had gone to the 9mm was because women could handle them, not because of accuracy or knock-down power. 

16

In 1993 or 94 I was on my facilities pistol team. That year the competion was being held in Lancaster, PA at an indoor range. None of us had shot competitvely at an indoor range before so we went down a day earlier to acclimate. The six of us brought approximately 16,000 rounds of Winchester Silvertip 9mm ammo to shoot off. (It was what was surplus - had been in stock too long to use in service and was over what would be required for bi-annual qualifications.) I don't remember how much we each shot that day but I had fired for over an hour before we started going through the official course of fire for the comp. The course was 60 rounds and I know I fired it al least 14 times that day as well as twice the next day. (Don't you love free ammo?)

17

You reich-wingers just don't get it:

 if the mass murderer has to stop and reload, the victims aren't as dead as they would be if the shooter had an extended magazine.

 

18 Allow me to add that a magazine is a piece of stamped fucking sheet metal with a spring.

It's not rocket surgery to make these things if one is so inclined. 

They never get the unintended consequences thing either.  You know what the 94 AWB did?  It gave the manufacturers a marketable reason to make super-concealable sub-compacts. 

19 Glock made that 30rd mag for a reason:  G18. 

A regular sized magazine would be empty in a nanosecond with the rate of fire on a Glock 18.  You need a larger magazine if you want to be able to pull the trigger more than once.  Who uses the G18 besides bodyguards?  I really can't see the utility of a machine-pistol when there are far better weapons out there available for protection/security.

20 Oops, that previous comment went under the wrong thread. Speaking of stupid fucks. mea culpa.

21 I grew up on a farm where we hunted for the dinner table.


Same here, those maple tables were always a bitch to track.

22 What is the magic of a 1911?  According to reviews, cheaper .45ACP weapons are better?  what justifies the price?

It's the "Yankee Fist."  American through and through. 

23
5 People who talk about "being a better shot" in times of extreme stress don't appreciate that ALMOST NOBODY gets as much practice as they "should" and what low light, stress, and other critical factors does to your ability to hit targets.

Most also believe in the undebatable stopping power of one bullet...

Posted by: DAve at January 19, 2011 09:19 PM (tG4br)

Truer words never spoken.

24 A companion question: what's the right number?

The State of Massachusetts says it's 10. Nice, round and arbitrary as hell.

25 But nerdygirl at 10 and 21, if it's a thread winner on the wrong thread, it's all kool.  We're morons, right?

26 I see no reason to ban large capacity mags as it opens the door for government to decide how many bullets I can have in my gun.  Today they might reduce it to 15 rounds, tomorrow 5-10.  Ace is wrong, the "slippery slope" argument is TOTALLY VALID when it comes to government interventions.  They never REDUCE their power, they always start out modestly and INCREASE their power over time.  I can't even believe Ace said that.

To allow a drastic change in policy because of one incident also sets a dangerous precedent.  Does the fact the victim was a politician somehow make this a special case that requires extraordinary action?  Not in my mind.  Average people are victims of crimes every day, disarming law abiding citizens is the opposite of what we should be doing.  And we all know liberals want to do just that.  We should not let their foot in the door because of this.

27 It's the "Yankee Fist."  American through and through. 

Posted by: Alec Leamas at January 19, 2011 09:27 PM (i0Iid)

It's like buying a Harley.  There are bikes that are better and cheaper, but they're not an American legend

28 There are several 9mm, .40, and .45 caliber rifles that feed from pistol magazines.

29

>People who talk about "being a better shot" in times of extreme stress don't appreciate that ALMOST NOBODY gets as much practice as they "should" and what low light, stress, and other critical factors does to your ability to hit targets.

not to mention short term hearing loss

a few years ago on a camping trip to the Utah hinterlands, I made the mistake of popping off a few rounds from a .45 without ear protection. This was outdoors with nothing to reflect the sound back at me. My ears rang the rest of the afternoon.

30 What is the magic of a 1911?  According to reviews, cheaper .45ACP weapons are better?  what justifies the price?

You know that guy who got hit in the knee at the rally?
Had he been hit in the knee with a .45acp, he may not have a leg today, or may have even bled to death pretty quick.

Read up on the reason why the .45acp was developed by Saint Browning sometime. It is revealing.

31 It's my understanding that skitzo boy was jumped when he couldn't get the extended magazine to feed. Perhaps if he used the regular capacity, more reliable magazines he would have been able to shoot more people.

32 I was reading some local dickwad argue in favor of nebulous "gun control legislation" referring to "rapid fire clips."

They won't take the time to learn the mechanics of the matter and insist on banning whatever they can remember from their B-movie gun nightmares.

I half expect some libtard asshole to try to ban those guns that click to "power up" like in the movies.  (Ever notice that in movies, semiauto handguns get "clicked" to "power up" when the situation becomes more tense?  See, e.g., standoff at the end of Crimson Tide).

33 Ken Royall at 28 - They already reduced it to 10 when the passed the first AWB in 1994. And it had no impact on crime or shootings at all. In fact it had no real effect at all as it only banned newly manufactured mags and mags generally have no identifying mark to indicate when they were manufactured. A Berreta magazine manufactured in Italy in 1996 was indistinguishable from one manufacted in 1991. And US manufacturers were still permitted to make them for law enforcement and the military. In fact I was neither but we still got them for our official duty use.

34 The amount of kinetic energy put out by the .45 ACP round has to be seen to be believed. I treated two different gunshot victims- one hit with a 9mm Parabellum round (typical 9mm pistol round) in the forearm, one hit with a .45 ACP round in the humerus (upper arm). The 9mm wound was clean, save for the broken radius and some torn-up blood vessels. The .45 wound had all sorts of astonishing soft tissue damage all the way up into the shoulder and down to the elbow, to say nothing of the nerve, blood vessel, and muscle damage.

35 The reason to do it is so the government can claim they "fixed" the problem that led to the shooting while the sherriff and others who conspired to let the dude skate out of psych wards remain unpunished.

Its a diversion.

36 Read up on the reason why the .45acp was developed by Saint Browning sometime. It is revealing.

A short, fat piece of metal that hits you and transfers all of the kinetic energy to soft tissue does wonders to stop Southwest Pacific rebels dead in their tracks.

37 In the meantime, maybe some of you more tactically-minded folks can help me out with the professional ramifications of extended magazines... I would think that in a pro security situation, you wouldn't want to have the classic machine pistol (Glock 1 in favor of something like an MP-5/MP-10. Under what circumstances would a pro need a true machine pistol? As far as the Constitutional ramifications go, extended magazines yea or nay would have little bearing on whether or not you could kill your victim. This is an incremental issue, and it's an obvious target for gun grabbers. Even though there's little obvious reason for having them, banning them gives more leverage to the bad guys to punish the law-abiding.

38 IIRC, a US officer had gotten himself beheaded by a large attacker, AFTER he emptied his entire .38 into same. Back to the drawing boards.

39 Alec Leamus at 34 - The funniest in that regard was an episode of the Star Trek series Deep Space Nine when the command crew gets transported back in time and gets involved in a hostage situation. Cmd. Sisko runs around the entire show punctuating every dramatic statement by racking a twelve-gauge pump shotgun. Yet he never ejects a live shell. If I was one of his hostages I would figure out the second time he did that that his weapon was unloaded and he didn't seem to realize it.

40 Ace is wrong, the "slippery slope" argument is TOTALLY VALID when it comes to government interventions.

It would be inevitable that had the AWB not been allowed to sunset, we'd now be debating the possibility of limiting magazines to 5 or 3 rounds. 

41 I have fired those extended mags, didn't like them. Had two stovepipes in as many mags. Threw the whole balance of the piece off. I wouldn't use them if it counted.

Having said that, apparently Loughner's functioned perfectly.

42

People who talk about "being a better shot" in times of extreme stress don't appreciate that ALMOST NOBODY gets as much practice as they "should" and what low light, stress, and other critical factors does to your ability to hit targets.

Most also believe in the undebatable stopping power of one bullet...

Truer words never spoken. I was talking to some folks the other day about just how shitty a situation that would have been if you had been carrying concealed in that crowd when he started shooting.

People all over the place scattering in every direction ... trying to find some cover for yourself ... having to pick the shooter out and get a clean enough shot ... fight or flight kicking in, etc.

The one guy who was carrying there that I've seen interviewed was inside the store, and it was over before he could get outside.

I doubt any civilian, and most cops, could have picked Loughner off before he fired every round in the magazine like he did anyway.

But if I had been there and started returning fire, I'd be happy for every round I had in my sidearm and would be wishing I had an extra mag.

43 I agree that extended clip springs suck.  Leaving ammo in them really ruins them. 

What is the deal. 

Remember the old duct tape?  On most rifles you can duct tape two clips back to back and have all the ammo you  need, so restricting the magazine size is just a fucking waste of time. 

Why do cops carry two extra clips, because they can.

44 The rationale behind banning high cap mags is the rationale behind the AWB, Sarbanes-Oxley, the 2010 financial reform bill, ad infinitum.  Legislators must prove their value by making a law after every newsworthy event.  As sure as night follows day, every tragedy is followed by a lawmaking travesty. 

45 the meantime, maybe some of you more tactically-minded folks can help me out with the professional ramifications of extended magazines... I would think that in a pro security situation, you wouldn't want to have the classic machine pistol (Glock 1 in favor of something like an MP-5/MP-10. Under what circumstances would a pro need a true machine pistol?

The MP5 is some sweet steel.  The only tactical application that I could imagine for a machine pistol is for a security/body guard needing a concealable weapon that can lay lead as you evacuate the 'guardee'  to a safe place.  Perhaps someone else has an explanation.   

46 At the very least, make it socially unacceptable to be aware of a Mark David Chapman-wannabee and not tell the proper authorities about it.

The problem is that people, professionals in the relevant fields unexcepted, are really, really bad at identifying that kind of person, prospectively.

There are a lot of reasons for that, but the deep-down nut of it, the insuperable practical obstacle to any urge to "do something," is this: At any given time, of the millions—and it is millions—who precisely fit the best predictive criteria for a spree-killing loon, about two are going to actually try some shit.

Better that everyone a government psychologist considers unfuckable goes to a prison-asylum for life than Lady Gaga get capped? Because that's the trade that would really be made.

47 It's my understanding that skitzo boy was jumped when he couldn't get the extended magazine to feed. Perhaps if he used the regular capacity, more reliable magazines he would have been able to shoot more people.

Untrue. He fired every round.

They tackled him when he was changing mags.

48 Gun Theads, love em, very educational.

49

tmi3rd at 40 - If I had my druthers, and I had to be able to at least semiconceal it I would go with the MP5K-PDW. With the stock folded it is remarkably small, not pistol small, but can be concealed under a coat in circumstances where total stealth is not required. The stock deploys very quickly, literally in the time it takes to raise it to firing position. And I have seen good shooters put multiple hits into combat type targets at 75 yrds. You can't do that easily witha pistol.

I don't know very many agencies that adapted the Glock 18. I had heard that the DEA used them but personally I can't really see the utility of a pistol sized weapon that fires more than 15 rounds in a second.

50 Alec Leamus , well done , "Yankee Fist ",,, that's poetry .


We southern boys like em' too .

51 Russ if you saw that quiz our representatives took about the constitution you might be suprised that they do think Stuff you say shouldn't be used is in fact in the constitution

52 There has been much conjecture about what would you do if you had your concealed piece on you once Loughner started his massacre.

I have come up with several problems.

First of which involves getting within range of the shooter. I you can kill him, he can kill you back.

Secondly, if you are in a position to fire upon the shooter, to LE, you are no different than the shooter himself. You could get wrongly killed.

LE will eventually show up. If you have killed the shooter, then you are in a pickle. I would say, lay on the ground, throw your weapon away, and repeat "I shot the shooter!" to LE.

Might work.

53 Any infringement on the "legal" capacity of a magazine is an infringement on my rights. They are mine. Not the government's. Not my local police chief's. Not anyone's but mine. Rights are not around to be modified at the whim of some cocksucker in Washington. They have been fought for by great men, many of whom died to protect those rights. So to anyone who wants to abridge those rights I have just two words: Fuck You.

Mine.

54 LE will eventually show up. If you have killed the shooter, then you are in a pickle. I would say, lay on the ground, throw your weapon away, and repeat "I shot the shooter!" to LE.

Might work.

Posted by: navybrat at January 19, 2011 09:50 PM (UK5kO)

Unless you're in a crowd of Libtards, or the last one standing, you should also have the benefit of friendly witnesses.

55 The only gun I have that takes more than 10 rounds in it's mag is the Saiga.

I mean, if I HAD a gun, that would be the only one.  Because I don't have any guns (that anyone knows about).

But if I did have any guns, I would be picking up my Arisaka type 30 from the gunsmith tomorrow.  I still don't know if it would hypothetically be a shooter or a display piece, but I should know tomorrow.  Hypothetically, of course.

56 30 There are several 9mm, .40, and .45 caliber rifles that feed from pistol magazines.

My Uzi is 9mm and it has a 50 round clip.

Tape two together, 100 rounds. http://tinyurl.com/6j6w4wt

57 Having said that, apparently Loughner's functioned perfectly.

Posted by: navybrat at January 19, 2011 09:43 PM (UK5kO)

I'm not sure it did, I read one newspaper article that said it quit feeding and the bolt locked open. Also the police have only been able to recover 21 casings. That would explain how people were able to jump the guy if he was confused that his gun quit working.

58 So...what are the rules at Ace of Spades about commenting after having a few?

59

47 Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at January 19, 2011 09:46 PM (IlBr+)

Truer words.......

60 So...what are the rules at Ace of Spades about commenting after having a few?

Quantity over quality.  Bad rhyming is a plus.

61 So...what are the rules at Ace of Spades about commenting after having a few?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at January 19, 2011 09:52 PM (LH6ir)

 

It's actually encouraged.

62 I have a Camp Marlin in .45acp. I got a drum mag for it (years ago, it was legal).

It is kind of fun, but the barrel will get red hot on you. Not good.

63 ABC News: "In all, sources said Loughner allegedly fired 32 rounds before he was tackled by participants in Giffords' public event."

64 61 So...what are the rules at Ace of Spades about commenting after having a few?

All is fair, but don't use the "c" word or "n" word, got that cocksucker?

65

You wanna be a safety nanny and scold people for owning extra capacity magazines? Fine. Knock yourself out. Just don't use the power of the State to infringe on the Second Amendment.

Thank you.  One would think that the people claiming the need to infringe on the Second Amendment would understand the concurrent threat to the First Amendment, and the others as well.

66 Encouraged, Russ? I thought it was required.

Seems I may have been doin' this wrong.

67 I wouldn't count on news people to report accurately about firearms. Most are completely ignorant on the topic. They are forever getting it wrong.

68 Eventually it will come to, "Well, why should you have any rounds in the clip?"

69 There has been much conjecture about what would you do if you had your concealed piece on you once Loughner started his massacre.

I have come up with several problems.

First of which involves getting within range of the shooter. I you can kill him, he can kill you back.

Secondly, if you are in a position to fire upon the shooter, to LE, you are no different than the shooter himself. You could get wrongly killed.

LE will eventually show up. If you have killed the shooter, then you are in a pickle. I would say, lay on the ground, throw your weapon away, and repeat "I shot the shooter!" to LE.

Might work.


No doubt.  The way I can figure it, Fester had tunnel vision, shooting humans for the first time and all.  The reenactment had him lowering his weapon and his head to get a LOS on Judge Roll under a table.  If you were to his back while he was drawn, I doubt he would perceive you approaching or much of anything going on except what was right in front of him.  He really couldn't have accounted for everyone in a busy retail parking lot - probably not part of his plan at all.

70 You know that guy who got hit in the knee at the rally?
Had he been hit in the knee with a .45acp, he may not have a leg today, or may have even bled to death pretty quick.

And then his leg would have gone flying into the NEXT COUNTY! and his guts would have been blown RIGHT OUTTA HIS ASSHOLE!!!!!

Yes, the .45 ACP has more stopping power than the 9mm, but it's not magic. 
(If I had a pistol, it would be a Grok 36 in .45ACP.)

71 Arbitrarily limiting the amount of ammunition a pistol (or any firearm) is simply a trick. Liberals love to tell people what they need, or don't need.

For example, one of the pistols in my collection (which I bought during the dreaded AWB) is a Beretta 92FS, which can hold 15 or 17 9mm rounds in a normal capacity mag (depending on the mag). I still have the retarded reduced capacity 10-round "Clinton Clip" magazines that were sold with it when I bought in in 1999. But... I was still able to buy "pre-ban" normal capacity magazines when I bought the pistol - the price was substantially higher for those normal capacity magazines. Exercising my rights cost a hell of a lot more of my hard-earned money.

The trick angle with any ban - is to once again place that specific firearm or component, or ammunition, out of the range where the "chattering classes" can afford them. It's largely ineffective by design, and guarantees only to make firearm ownership all that more painful.

Oh, how the "ruling classes" hate knowing the people aren't merely unarmed peasants, and magazine capacity limits simply come up short.

72 I Don't think Ace hands out any BWI's. Blogging While Intoxicated.

73 Alec Leamas, Have Blue- Thanks for weighing in. That was the part that befuddled me about the tactical absurdity (for lack of a better word) surrounding a 15-round-capacity full-auto pistol... you'd run off all your ammo, have a ton of hard-to-control muzzle rise, and spend more time reloading than firing. The way I was taught, even with a full-auto weapon, the most fire you'd want to put on target would be a three-round burst. I've enjoyed my intimate moments with the MP-5... that said, I'll leave the close-quarters combat shit to the guys who know what they're doing. If I'm close enough to draw my toy, I want to squeeze off enough rounds to get myself out of the situation. If that means the bad guys wind up dead in the process, so much the better, but I figure for everyday engagements, mine is a tool for egress.

74 So...what are the rules at Ace of Spades about commenting after having a few?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at January 19, 2011 09:52 PM (LH6ir)

The Valu-Rite is actually considered a pre-requisite for commenting, unless you are on a 12 step program.  If that's the case you can drink soft drinks and pretend.  Club soda is preferred.

75 Oh shit , this is turning into a gun and politics ( second amendment )thread !!
 I hope someone has smelling salts available for those overcome with the stench from the second amendment caucus .

76 If I remember my boot camp training oh so many years ago the Navy adopted the .45 in place of the .38 because hopped up Phillipino radicals would keep coming after they were pumped full of six .38 bullets, but the .45 would stop them. Head shots for zombies. It's the only way.

77 Since all the assassins of recent history have been leftists it would make sense to ban leftists from owning guns more than a magazine restriction.

78

I can see a situation where beaucoup capacity is real good...  how about laying down fire to break contact and get-the-fuck outa the zone? If alone. thirty is lots better than ten.

But let's not pussyfoot around, we all know what the left really wants:

Government agents get the exclusive monopoly on the application of deadly force.

79 Unforgiven (1992) Fatty Rossiter: It was already loaded. Jesus, Clyde, you have three pistols and you only have one arm for ChristÂ’s sake. Clyde: Well I just donÂ’t want to be killed for lack of shootinÂ’ back.

80 I'll listen to the government's calls for harsher weapons laws, right after they implement harsher motherfucking whacko walkin loose on my fucking street laws.

You know why I carry every single day? It isn't because of all the law abiding citizens out there. It's because the government has decided that those insane motherfuckers like the one that shot up a bunch of civvies has fucking rights to be walking around being a god damned psychopath.

I don't pretend to have all the answers to jackholes like the Tuscon shooter. I hope to God I never have to find myself or my loved ones in a situation like that. I do know that treating law abiding cits like criminals and enacting yet another meaningless gun law isn't ever going to stop the lunatics out there from doing this kind of thing.

When they get serious about taking the real threat off the streets the rest of us walk, then I'll listen to what anyone has to say about why I do, or don't need some piece of inanimate hardware.

81 Posted by: Kemp at January 19, 2011 09:56 PM (JpFM9)
Posted by: Oldsailor at January 19, 2011 10:04 PM (PiO8s)

I may suck, but I hear you swallow.

And yeah, I sort of figured that. I have been around long enough to know, but it was a not-so-subtle way of explaining my vehemence.

82 Since all the assassins of recent history have been leftists it would make sense to ban leftists from owning guns more than a magazine restriction.


Well, since the majority of societies ills are the consequence of leftist "Good Intentions" it would be more efficient to ban leftists from any participation in polite company.

83

I'm thankful for this thread.  It was a reminder to go on line and order up a few more hi cap mags just in case.  Why take chances?

The brand I was after was sold out of black, though.  Imagine that...

 

84 I think we should tell liberals that if they don't want high capacity magazines, they shouldn't buy them, but we're pro-choice on the matter.

That said, I wouldn't bother. I have a couple of Glock 17s that carry 17 rounds already.  If 17 isn't enough, then I'm in more trouble than I can handle anyway.

85 Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde at January 19, 2011 10:04 PM (7Y12r)

12 Step Programs are for quitters.

86 I imagine someone with a good head on their shoulders, a .45acp chambered weapon with a laser sight would have ended the thing pretty quick. Sadly the demographic of the crowd was not leaning that way.

87 It was a reminder to go on line and order up a few more hi cap mags just in case.

Stimulus!

88 Obviously I am not the only one who has had a few.

It was tongue-in-cheek!

89 Posted by: Unclefacts, Confuse A Cat, Ltd at January 19, 2011 10:14 PM (eCAn3)

Too many words.

Try this:

"I carry because I am exercising my rights as a free man and an American."

FIFY

90

Yes, it's almost bizarre that the very people who are always squawking about what monsters the police are (see Oakland transit) are the VERY ONES who insist that the gov't is the only people who should have firearms.

Would be bizarre if it wasn't such a good example of what thoughtless little totalitarians they are...

91
"I carry because I am exercising my rights as a free man and an American."

FIFY

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at January 19, 2011 10:18 PM (LH6ir)

that's so much of a given, it doesn't even need saying.

92 Posted by: awkward davies at January 19, 2011 10:06 PM (YCW1b)

Stench?

Really?

93 I still can't believe that Ace - even being the cluelessly unarmed Yankee that he is - is buying into this argument. 

First of all, the slippery slope argument is ALWAYS valid.  Want proof?  Well, name me a single government program or law that failed to expand.  Didn't think so...

Secondly, the slippery slope argument is ALWAYS valid.  The whole point of the liberal incrementalist strategy to negating our freedoms is akin to the boiling frog analogy.  They hate the Constitution, and do not respect its obvious declarations of our inalienable rights.  Therefore, though they must eliminate those rights, but can only do so in piecemeal fashion.  Thus, in order to fool the frogs, they take our freedoms piece by piece under the guise of "pragmatism," but they can't do so out of whole cloth without exposing their true ambitions.  Pragmatism is the mother of fascism; principle is the father of freedom.

94 Stimulus!

If there's one area of the economy that has responded positively to Obama's policies, it is the firearms industry.

I hear he's being named Gun Salesman of the Millenium at this year's SHOT Show.

95 First they take your extended mag, and in pretty short order you can't have a shotgun.

96 100 "weapon with a laser sight"


Unless they've gotten a LOT better recently, using one out in the daylight is pretty near impossible.

Posted by: right at January 19, 2011 10:21 PM (AYDSU)

My crimson trace is always visible. Even in full sun it's easy to see the dot.

97 85 Unforgiven (1992)

Fatty Rossiter: It was already loaded. Jesus, Clyde, you have three pistols and you only have one arm for ChristÂ’s sake.

Clyde: Well I just donÂ’t want to be killed for lack of shootinÂ’ back.

Posted by: Mad Saint Jack at January 19, 2011 10:13 PM (zVgnK)

 

IIRC, Clyde got capped right away in that big gunfight at the end of the movie.  So even a freaking M-60 with a 200-round belt wouldn't have helped him very much.

  Which teaches you a very important lesson:  Before you have to worry about reloading, you need to worry about surviving the first 3 seconds of the fight.

98 Therefore, though they must eliminate those rights, but can only do so in piecemeal fashion.

Yup. See that Mark Steyn piece linked in the sidebar for how the slippery slope argument was all too valid in the UK.

99 Silly American martyr in training Loughner. If you want to really get people kill-ed in marketplaces, wear suicide vest.

100 102 First they take your extended mag, and in pretty short order you can't have a shotgun.

Posted by: USS Diversity at January 19, 2011 10:22 PM (DLxD/)

Or they just go the Australia route.

101 My middle son's fiancé is a trauma doc who worked a Brooklyn emergency room until she burned out - then went Medicin sans Frontiere.

She said she could just about save anyone who got to her alive who had been hit with a 9mm. 

.357 or .45 - not so much.

102 Part of my problem with them might be my color-blindness.  Red blends right in.

Posted by: right at January 19, 2011 10:26 PM (AYDSU)

ah, so you'd have a hard time with a red dot sight too? Get some good tritium night sights. The dots look white and glow at night.

103 Unless they've gotten a LOT better recently, using one out in the daylight is pretty near impossible.

The green lasers are much, much better in daytime and fortunately there are more of them available and for cheaper than just a few years ago.

104 How about we make shooting people illegal...

Or perhaps we could lock people up if they are dangerous instead of trying to treat them?

105 The green lasers are much, much better in daytime and fortunately there are more of them available and for cheaper than just a few years ago.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 19, 2011 10:28 PM (XVaFd)

 

Gabe, dropping some firearms knowledge! 

 

I'm proud of you, dude.

106 Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 19, 2011 10:28 PM (XVaFd)

Gabe,

I thought you were an effete, LA, latte-drinking law geek!

107 The green lasers are much, much better in daytime and fortunately there are more of them available and for cheaper than just a few years ago.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 19, 2011 10:28 PM (XVaFd)

yep, that's the next upgrade for me. CT has some nice units coming out.

108 I want a laser that replaces my recoil spring plug on my 1911. That would be about as high-tech as I want to be.

109 Second amendment cologne , it's a subtle melange of Hoppes no. 9 with a faint hint of Breakfree .

110 I have a Camp Marlin in .45acp. I got a drum mag for it (years ago, it was legal). It is kind of fun, but the barrel will get red hot on you. Not good. Posted by: navybrat at January 19, 2011 09:55 PM Still are, unless you live in a shithole state. That Camp 45 should be legal in all 50 states. No evil features like pistol grips, folding stocks, flash hiders and "shoulder things that go up".

111 8 
What is the magic of a 1911?  According to reviews, cheaper .45ACP weapons are better?  what justifies the price?
Posted by: Ombudsman at January 19, 2011 09:22 PM (c1oyg)

As others pointed out, the .45 ACP round the 1911 is usually chambered in is effective, and the pistol is a proven American classic.  Beyond that it is a whole package of features.  Among the most important is that the 1911's trigger is one of the nicest on any pistol.  There are other pistols with particular features done better than on the 1911, when you put them all together, the 1911 comes out near the very top.
It may not be important to you that there are lots of 1911s & parts, being a 100 year-old design.  It is important to me that there are lots of spare parts around for the pistol, and lots of people who are good at gunsmithing them.

112 Second amendment cologne , it's a subtle melange of Hoppes no. 9 with a faint hint of Breakfree .

That reminds me ... I've got some cleanin' to do.

113 viridiangreenlaser.com has some cool ones, really powerful and visible. Oleg Volk is always talking 'em up. They're pretty big though. Probably a bit much for comfortable CCW in their current form.

114 118 - Lasermax is what you're looking for (unless you already know that and are just being coy).

115

If we make laws inspired by the actions of Looney-Tunes wackjobs we are going to have just that, laws inspired by wackjobs.

 

We are talking about the new legislation to ban 33 round magazines, right?

 

Well, it will ban ‘devices’ which hold more than 10 rounds, just keep talking bought the magical 33 round magazine. This ban includes rifles with tube and non-removable box magazines. Unlike the AWB, there is no grandfather clause.

http://tinyurl.com/45tt24n

116 wow. are you serious? usually the commentary here is pretty on point. this is so asinine that i really don't know where to begin. anyway, my producers are telling me that we've only got time for two. 1: the 2nd amendment also does not say "...keep and bear WHATEVER arms THEY GODDAMN WELL PLEASE TO KEEP". you are *clearly* implying that the bearing of any arms ("even if russ thinks you don't need em") is protected by the second amendment, which is obviously not the case. if it were, bubba joe from rural iowa would have already gotten his hands on a nice set of personal-usage nuclear projectiles ("hell, 'sfer hawg huntin'!"), and we wouldn't even be here to be having this discussion. you think letting the government regulate 33-round pistol magazines (essentially useless outside of PLANNED KILLING SPREES or gang-war-style gunfights) is a slippery slope? how about the slippery slope you just fell clean off of by suggesting that the right to keep and bear ANY arms, no matter the practical or intended usage, is what the founders meant by the text of the second amendment? number two: as if your point couldn't be made without your getting even more ridiculous, you actually say it would be better for the government to compile a database of people subscribing to "strange conspiracy theories" who would be prevented from owning firearms. did you think this one out, or were you just looking for a quick disclaimer to throw out there in order to prevent yourself from looking insensitive? sensitivity is not the issue here, and the extended-magazine debate should not be had simply in the context of the shooting of rep giffords, et al. nevertheless, because you wanted to put forth some sort of possible "solution" that might preclude another similar massacre -- a solution that wouldn't touch any of *your* gun rights -- you actually (go back and read it if you don't believe me) proposed that the government be given the power to decide whose "strange conspiracy theories" ought to preclude them from second amendment rights. "don't you *dare* let uncle sam touch my 33-round pistol magazine, but it's cool with me if he decides whose ideas are crazy enough to keep them from having any guns whatsoever". i can bet that "people who think 33-round mags are totally practical" might eventually show up on that list of "crazy conspiracy theories" anyway. just in case it hasn't sunk in: let me keep my right to own something that I would never use (but others might use to kill many people -- and in very few other conceivable situations), but let the government decide who exactly can enjoy this right -- by policing their thoughts! -- that i am demanding not be infringed upon. ...you gun-happy hicks are really a classic breed, man. really a *classic* breed.

117 I own a Glock and personally don't have a use for a 33 round mag. The stock mags that came with it are more than adequate for my home/personal defense needs. To me, mag size is a personal choice and shouldn't be up to the government to make for me.

Besides, if 33 round mags are banned, then someone with ill intent could load up with four ten round mags [or eight 5 round mags] and have plenty of firepower. Someone proficient in tactical and speed reloads could do a lot of damage in a short period of time.

Banning certain mags won't cure the ill intent of someone like Laughner.

118

Wow.

Someone's mom found his porn stash-

119 When natural disasters happen, like in New Orleans when the levees broke, it could be conceivably necessary to have many rounds at your disposal to protect your property against looters.

120 jimi ray - The Second Amendment was written in part as a fail safe to prevent what the British tried to do in Lexington and Concord. Which was to try and confiscate several wagon loads of the best infantry weapons of the day and a battery of field artillery.

121

jimi ray,  I'm freakin' appalled at your lack of knowledge with respect to hunting.

 

Personal nukes for hog hunting?  As if.  Everyone knows that you use full-auto twin .50 M2s for hogs.  Douche.

122 hmm. i typed "what could *ever* go wrong?" and it came out "...you gun-happy hicks are really a classic breed, man. really a *classic* breed." ...anyway, what i mean to say is that i totally take that last line back. it was juvenile, futile, and totally contrary to the spirit of "cooled political rhetoric" that is now very much in vogue. it's no excuse i realise, but i'm in college station, tx (i.e., hick central, USA), temporarily, and i've a bit of a thing against uneducated, prejudiced, illiterate country folks. obviously the author of the original post is by no means uneducated, illiterate, or prejudiced (from what i can tell on that third one, anyway) and certainly didn't deserve to be the target (erm, are we still allowed to say that word?) such personally vitriolic invective. i let the internet get the better of me. sorry. =/

123 The Federalist No. 46
Does the 2nd come from this?

Either way, 30 round detachable magazines (x7) is the baseload norm today.

Unless you are stuck with the SAW, then you're lugging (x3) 200 round drums - never know when you might need to law down a suppressive fire.

124

number two: as if your point couldn't be made without your getting even more ridiculous, you actually say it would be better for the government to compile a database of people subscribing to "strange conspiracy theories" who would be prevented from owning firearms. did you think this one out, or were you just looking for a quick disclaimer to throw out there in order to prevent yourself from looking insensitive? sensitivity is not the issue here, and the extended-magazine debate should not be had simply in the context of the shooting of rep giffords, et al. nevertheless, because you wanted to put forth some sort of possible "solution" that might preclude another similar massacre -- a solution that wouldn't touch any of *your* gun rights -- you actually (go back and read it if you don't believe me) proposed that the government be given the power to decide whose "strange conspiracy theories" ought to preclude them from second amendment rights.

  OK, fuckwit.  Here's my thought process.

  There are already laws on the books preventing the mentally ill from purchasing firearms.  Before I will agree to any new laws, even ones that DON'T infringe on Second Amendment rights, I would like to see the government enforce all their existing laws.

  If they're not willing to enforce their existing laws, why do they need a new law?

  Does that make sense, douchenozzle?

125

Posted by: jimi ray at January 19, 2011 11:14 PM (0bg9i)

 

Apology not accepted.  I'm no fan of the aTm Aggies, but I'll take them over you any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

126 Clip/Mag capacity is a preference issue for the gun owner, period.

If I were elderly or disabled, and living on the border near an active drug cartel hellhole, I'd have an entirely different perspective on the issue, compared to a person living in a gated-living complex in Tennessee.

If your purpose is to be influenced by leftist hate rhetoric,  go on a rampage and produce mayhem on a large scale, there are many ways to get the same effect as an extended magazine:

  more guns, (obvious to anyone not named
  Lawrence O'Donnell); bombs;  more shooters;
  sniping from a distance with more deadly rounds; etc.

and I'm sure you can find more such methods listed at radical websites operated by the left. Also at jihadist websites.

127

but i'm in college station, tx (i.e., hick central, USA), temporarily, and i've a bit of a thing against uneducated, prejudiced, illiterate country folks.

I'm certain they will be glad to see your sorry educated, nonprejudiced, literate ass long gone.

128 jimi ray really has a problem with "hicks" and "bubba joe from rural Iowa" doesn't he? Ever notice how the gun grabbers always go to the culture war rhetoric? Rednecks, inbred hicks, and toothless cousin-humping country boys gotta know their place, y'know. Not to mention the "compensating for his penis" stuff......that was gonna be next, right jimi?

129 jimi ray is trying to compensate for the fact his mother and father are sister and brother.

130 mike: don't be in new orleans when the shit hits the fan -- which is, essentially, never. do note that it could also conceivably be useful to have a 105mm howitzer for those times the russians are invading alaska. every complex issue like this has to be viewed from a net perspective, and the probability that anyone could ever *need* a 33-round magazine is unfortunately dwarfed by the probability that anyone would ever use a 33-round magazine for destructive or murderous purposes. have blue: believe me, i am well versed in the american history( i am, after all, american). if you are actually suggesting that the implementation of the second amendment should scale to the present day such that the most destructive arms, by present-day standards, ought to be freely held by the People, i proffer that a class in basic logic may be in order. at any rate, i wasn't necessarily saying that 33-round magazines ought to be banned. i'm just saying that such a ban a) would follow a certain insurmountable logic; b) actually *fail* to impinge upon the second amendment rights of american citizens; c) actually *fail* to have any practically detrimental effect upon any gun owners not planning a mass-killing spree or a gang war; and d) potentially mitigate -- though indeed not obviate entirely -- some of the damage that might be caused by a future Laughner. it was also the point of my comment to respond to the ridiculous notions that had managed to tumble out of the poster's head into the logic-free-zone of the original post. unfortunately, the point stands that the second amendment does not provide for the right to keep ANY AND ALL ARMS, and even more unfortunately, following up a "slippery slope" critique of mr cheney's concession re: extended magazines with a suggestion that the government be allowed to decide, based on THOUGHTS AND IDEAS, who is and is not "too crazy" to enjoy second amendment rights is just downright *ridiculous*.

131 Posted by: Steve Skubinna at January 19, 2011 11:01 PM (7YekA)

No, not being coy. I sort of dropped out of staying current. Thanks for the tip.

132 Visualize using the shift key.......

133 130 When natural disasters happen, like in New Orleans when the levees broke, it could be conceivably necessary to have many rounds at your disposal to protect your property against looters.

Don't even get me started on the Corps of Engineers. Just go read Jay Tea's Hurricane Katrina archive on Wizbang. The media was guilty of some serious malfeasance on how they reported what really happened.

But more on point - it didn't matter how many rounds you had, the government illegally confiscated guns. They actually kicked down doors and searched houses to do it. (You can find video of several searches on Youtube.) The Great New Orleans Gun Grab is an excellent book on what New Orleans officials did after the storm.

134 If your plan is to assassinate a congress woman, and you've decided that you need two thirty round magazines as well as two 15 round magazines to do the job - then you probably should just stay home and play video games.  I really wish this Loughner kid would have tried field stripping his Glock with a round in the chamber.

135

and d) potentially mitigate -- though indeed not obviate entirely -- some of the damage that might be caused by a future Laughner.

 

  In English please?  And while you're at it, please show me the equation you're using that proves that slapping ANOTHER gun law onto law-abiding citizens will prevent a single death in the future.

  So "off the cuff", you're the typical elitist "damn cousin-humping rednecks" douchebag; but on second thought, you're now trying to sell yourself as the William F. Buckley of rational gun laws?

  Yeah, I'm gonna go with first impressions.  They're usually closer to reality than what you get when a turd like you realizes that someone heard his rant.

136 "If your purpose is to be influenced by leftist hate rhetoric,  go on a rampage and produce mayhem on a large scale, there are many ways to get the same effect as an extended magazine:"

Sorry, I left something out. That should be:

"If your purpose is to become the next Bill Ayers, hopped-up on leftist hate rhetoric,  go on a rampage and produce mayhem on a large scale, there are many ways to get the same effect as an extended magazine:"

137 there is a *huge* difference, by the way, between "the mentally ill", and fringe-types with tin-foil hats and implausible conspiracy theories. laughner, by NO MEANS, would have been classified as "mentally ill" to the point of being precluded from owning a firearm. if that were the case, then no ron paul supporter would be able to own a gun, either. making one's classmates uncomfortable with senseless ramblings and posting unintelligible ramblings on youtube simply do not classify one as being "weird" to the point of mental illness. by the way, unrestrained use of "fuckwit" and "douchenozzle" is *almost* as mature a way to attempt to defend one's indefensible logic than is insulting the long-deceased mother of someone who one thinks -- without evidence! -- is a "gun grabber". god, now how is it that i could *ever* have gotten a bad impression of prejudiced, uneducated hicks?

138 I think jimi ray is just upset that when he holds his "shriveled mushroom" it to pee, he wets *3* of his fingers.

139

99

First of all, the slippery slope argument is ALWAYS valid.  Want proof?  Well, name me a single government program or law that failed to expand.  Didn't think so...

Posted by: 5th Level Fighter at January 19, 2011 10:20 PM (hfWKa)

The slippery slope is something that our legislatures and others of the same cult most of them come from cannot sense though they lived in it almost their whole lives, like the water to a goldfish in a bowl they cannot remember how it was at first, it has always been war with eastasia.

It is stare decisis.

They cannot conceive of a time that the water was clean.

140 I'll bet the people in Philippines, Nepal, Burma, and India wish leftists weren't so damned violent.

I'll bet they also wish they had a government that defended their unalienable right to keep and bear arms.

141 Considering the mess that's been caused by douchebags with Ivy League "educations" over the last 50 years or so, I'll take "uneducated hicks" any day of the week. Besides, "hold ma beer and watch this" is cooler and more manly than the more Ivy League "Could I trouble you to secure my glass of chardonnay while I do something vaguely dangerous and exciting?"

142 jimi ray, I don't *even* read your *crap* after the first sentence. Once you started throwing around the hick, bubba joe shit I just *assumed* you were a *jackass* looking for *attention*. My assumption *was* not *wrong*.

143 I've never owned anything more than a Daisy Air rifle bb gun, but always thought the whole point was that citizens should be able to be as heavily armed as the police and military branches of those citizen's governments, just in case those citizen's governments got a bit too uppity and needed to be reminded they weren't allowed to be dictators. Which is why I do keep a stealth bomber out back in the shed.

144 Not to worry, though. It's not like the left plans these things out, say, to provoke a violent response.

So the onus is on the right to practice genuine gun control (training, discipline, marksmanship), and not to fall for the violence perpetrated by the left to set them up for Pallywood style media events.

145 Which is why I do keep a stealth bomber out back in the shed. Fuck the stealth bomber. I want an A-10 in the backyard. A big honkin' gun with an airplane made out of old spare parts grafted onto it at the last minute.

146 The issue isn't 33 round magazines, it is 10+ round capacity.

Fuck now.

147 Rather than make unsupported claims about the second amendment--especially its limits--one could always learn what the Second Amendment means.

148 Uneducated hicks? Heh. "Nearly half of the nation's undergraduates show almost no gains in learning in their first two years of college, in large part because colleges don't make academics a priority, a new report shows." http://tinyurl.com/6arfxlh

149 My personal home defense weapons are two (one for me, one for the wife) WWII-surplus M-1 carbines. They are relatively light, much easier to shoot accurately than a handgun and the standard magazine holds 20 rounds. Although only a .30 caliber, it has more stopping power than a 9mm due to the larger cartridge and longer barrel, providing much higher velocity. I have some 30 round magazines, but I've never been able to get them to feed consistently through all 30 rounds, so they are on the shelf.

150 ...you gun-happy hicks are really a classic breed, man. really a *classic* breed.

Posted by: jimi ray at January 19, 2011 11:06 PM (0bg9i)

You being an educated man should understand the phrase "Molon Labe" then? Now, Fuck. Off.

151 Posted by: ScottE at January 20, 2011 12:11 AM (DoNZk)

I don't think WWII surplus were designed for 30 round mags. May need to get parts for an M2 or M3 Carbine. I got a post war Iver Johnson, awesome gun to plink with.

152 "I have only been in one real shooting situation, and I can testify that unless all your training is done in those circumstances, you are in a whole new world. So, be sure to train while others are shooting back. " Very, very true. Many years ago, I read a statistical analysis of real-world gun fights (where both parties were armed with hand guns). The average distance between the parties was seven feet. In a very high percentage of the cases (I don't remember how much, but it was over half), the first shot was into the ground at the feet of the shooter. The second shot was into the ceiling. Only the third shot went anywhere near its target, and it usually missed.

153 "Nearly half of the nation's undergraduates show almost no gains in learning in their first two years of college, in large part because colleges don't make academics a priority, a new report shows." yeah, i believe you...but guess what? 50 000 of those undergraduates are here at a&m, and 30 000 of those drive trucks the size of my living room. "uneducated" is not the equivalent of "never went to college". it's "not having an education". there are plenty of hicks here in college station who currently ATTEND the college, but are more interested in drinking beer and fucking ugly chicks than they actually are in getting their education. thus, "uneducated": an education is what one *makes* of his schooling, not the schooling itself. i can guarantee that graduate and post-graduate students (who are actually serious about the education that mommy is, after all, no longer paying for) do not show similarly limited gains through the tenure of their own educations. i'm southern and proud. i'm conservative and proud. i'm not particularly religious, but i am quite convinced of the divinity of the man they call Jesus and of the philosophical (if not literal) infallibility of the canon Christian scripture. i do, however, think it is a shame that the conservative "base", esp here in the south, has come to be dominated by the type of hateful, self-deluded, uneducated countryfuck hick who would just as soon go fag-beating than participate in a political event. the most vocal proponents of, say, second-amendment rights are usually the least likely to have done anything toward maintaining those rights outside of violently threatening to "LET EM HAVE MAH GUNZ ALRIGHT" should they ever come to take those guns away. it is that "uneducated hick", to which class i am increasingly convinced the original poster actually belongs, that i pretty much hate.

154 Rational people wouldn't dwell on the inane issues which you batty, reactionary dimwits have been belaboring all day. Get a grip, get real ..., and, oh yeah, get a life.

155 I guess A&M doesn't teach "shift key" in lieu of beer drinkin', truck drivin', and ugly-chick fuckin'. Good to know.

156

Ewww-WEEE!!!

College boy's in grajumate skool now!

Shit dude I was in grad school for 7 years full time- who's the unejumacated hick now, Gomer???

Seriously, Jimi was such a cool name until you bespoiled it

(look it up)

157 IllTempered - Apparantly doesn't teach standard puncuation either. I wonder if jimi ray worries about the grammar.

158 Have Blue, I'm just waiting for him to try to make the case that grammar/punctuation/capitalization doesn't matter, only COMMUNICATING IDEAS !!!!eleventy!!! matter. Yeah, I've heard that argument before.

159

The more i think about this the more I'm convinced that Cheney's just trying to trick the Dems into knee-jerkingly moving forward legislatively on this issue- which will of course cost them the Senate and White House in 2 years. That's the only motivation that makes sense to me and I'm not sure they could resist such temptation if they thought he was on board with them too-

Hope I'm right about that- and if so, well played, sir!

160 DAve, that's what I'm hoping too. It'd be a shame to see the evil Lord Darth Cheney reduced to being a faithless RINO.

161 165 Rational people wouldn't dwell on the inane issues which you batty, reactionary dimwits have been belaboring all day. Get a grip, get real ..., and, oh yeah, get a life.

Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2011 12:39 AM (sYrWB)

Ezra, is that you?

162 Oh jimi ray, just admit it: the issue with you really isn't about guns or the second amendment, it's cultural.  You don't appreciate it that the face of your conservative views is that of the rural uneducated cousin-humping backwoods redneck (in your view).  You're like the David Frum of  College Station, except not as bright.  Why don't you take your allegedly superior ass and be high minded enough to have a little bit of respect for the dignity of others to have their views and their way of life and their traditions which may not overlap with yours but don't deserve to be talked down to or felt to be inferior by the likes of you.

163 So relieved.  Thot they wuz talking 'bout Girlie Magazines . . .

164

Usually if I find myself somewhere and wonder what I'm doing there eventually I realize that I'm really there because I belong there.

So rather than try to make believe you don't belong where you find yourself you're usually better off recognizing how you got there and making the best of wherever you find yourself.  It's home, for now at least- you might find out later that it was the the best place you ever were- if you ever leave

165 It's like buying a Harley. There are bikes that are better and cheaper, but they're not an American legend Not completely accurate. There is a reason that the 1911A1 is the #1 Combat Handgun in the world. Modified, true. But so are all the Glocks, Sigs, Berettas (F*CKIN JUNK). etc...... There is also a reason why the Marine Corps would love to have it back. Besides the fact that Berettas suck and 9mm's are for gangstas and eurotrash.

166 160 My personal home defense weapons are two (one for me, one for the wife) WWII-surplus M-1 carbines. They are relatively light, much easier to shoot accurately than a handgun and the standard magazine holds 20 rounds. Although only a .30 caliber, it has more stopping power than a 9mm due to the larger cartridge and longer barrel, providing much higher velocity. I have some 30 round magazines, but I've never been able to get them to feed consistently through all 30 rounds, so they are on the shelf. .30 Carbine, M-1 is an excellent weapon, in it's environment. I prefer an M-2, but I didn't say that, BATF. The problem with the 30 rnd magazine is usually the top "lips" being bent or dented slightly. Try adjusting them a bit. They're a lot of fun. I have 3 M-1's. If not for my CAR-15, they would be the primary home defense weapons.

167 I don't think WWII surplus were designed for 30 round mags. May need to get parts for an M2 or M3 Carbine. I got a post war Iver Johnson, awesome gun to plink with. Posted by: Holger at January 20, 2011 12:16 AM (YxGud) No difference in the magazine well on an early M-1 or the Korean War M-1/M-2/M-3. The difference is the addition of a bayonet lug, I believe after WWII. All will accept both the 15 Rnd and the 30 nd mags. If you have an M-1 with a small notch cut in the stock next to the receiver, it's an M-2 retro converted back to M-1. It's ridiculously simple to reconvert this back to M-2. But, I didn't say that.

168 "...it is that "uneducated hick", to which class i am increasingly convinced the original poster actually belongs, that i pretty much hate."

Posted by: jimi ray at January 20, 2011 12:28 AM (0bg9i)

You've done a great job of buying into a leftist stereotype of the right. Nicely done. Just tell me where, in your travels among God-fearing country folk, you've seen these "fag beating" people? Do you think that, in the heart of a typical country church they are condoning such behavior? Do you know of the Patriot Guard bikers? Cowboys for Cancer Research? The FFA? There are far more rednecks that are members of those kinds of organizations than are among the few paltry souls damaged by drink that cloud your thinking so thoroughly on this subject.

Perhaps your convictions regarding the "divinity of the man they call Jesus and of the philosophical (if not literal) infallibility of the canon Christian scripture" are not so strong as you portray.

No, you're clearly more comfortable assuming that thugs are probably "conservative" because they drive pickups and drink beer. Then you take up that unweildably broad brush--which you gladly accepted from some hack leftist, and made of it your own personal defense from thinking. You take it up, and shield yourself from the enmity of your peers in the realm of higher education. Busily brushing away the reality of the majority of rural conservatives is a demonstration to your leftist friends that, for all of your non-leftist ideals, you still aren't one of those "hateful, self-deluded, uneducated countryfuck hick(s)."

Why not add the term "baleful" while you're at it? It makes a nice pun on the straw-man essence of your argument.

169

I get the feeling jimi ray got a few atomic wedgies from some corn fed rednecks in the past. Probably had a girlfriend dump him for one of them too.

Which does not justify his bigotry, but does help explain it.

170

Yeah, don't cry over sour milk...

 

*learned that from a FFA dropout I usta practice insemination techniques with*

171 Good Morning all

I think I covered everything on this issue yesterday on Ace's post. I am part of the second amendment caucus. I am also part of the 1st, 3rd, 4th, et al caucus.

Banning any type of "arms" is a violation of the second amendment. Contrary to what Scalia said, there is no wiggle room in it for "common sense regulation" either. And no, that is not a nut case attitude to allow your next door neighbor to have an M-2 mounted on his front porch and a back-pack nuke in his bedroom. The point is, if you want common sense regulation there is a method written in the Constitution to do that. It is called the amendment process. The libtards don't like it because they have been getting what they want via decades of FDR court packing so why seek the consensus it takes for an amendment if you can get 5 unelected commies to give it to you in court?

The bottom line is this, you either believe that the Constitution means what it says or you think it is a worthless piece of animal hide relegated to display for historical purposes.

The Constitution is a contract between the States in which all the ratifying States agreed to. The original bill of rights was added as a condition for ratification because the major political leaders of the time were worried about an all powerful central government. The original bill of rights was meant to LIMIT federal power over the people.

A 150 years ago a number of the States decided they would not adhere to the contract. The Southern States said OK, if you do not want to adhere to it, the contract is null and void.

Lets make sure we are not recreating the conditions that created that environment in 1861. We killed about 600,000 of each other that time with a much lower population number and the federal government just got stronger.

172

#179 - FYI, the M-3 is a .45 caliber submachine gun, not a .30 caliber carbine.

173 #179 - FYI - An M-1 is a .30 caliber Garand rifle, not a .30 caliber carbine, and not even remotely similar to an M-2 carbine in design and function, and although both of them are .30 caliber diameter, they take two different kinds of cartridges,  the former of which is larger and more powerful.

174 FYI, the M-3 is a .45 caliber submachine gun, not a .30 caliber carbine.


I laughed out loud.  It's also a tank and a floor wax.

175

BTW, #179, the velocity of a cartidge's projectile will be determined by the chemical components in the cartridge - not by the length of a rifle's barrel.

176 Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2011 08:36 AM (sYrWB)

Incorrect. Length of barrel has a huge influence on the velocity. Gases expand until the pressure is ambient. If the barrel is longer, the pressure is exerted on the projectile for a longer time.

177 You knew a neo-Confederate crackpot would chime in sooner or later.

178

#193 - I read your comments. So you didn't waste your time. I suspect, however, that I wasted my time with those three posts that I made to #179.

179

And Brian the M-1 designation was also used for both the M-1 Garand rifle firing the .30-06 cartridge and the M-1 carbine firing a significantly less powerful cartridge (not bottle-necked) also in .30 caliber which is commonly refferred to as ".30 carbine". The M-2 Carbine was a version of the M-1 carbine modified for full automatic fire.

As toby928 pointed out the same M designations are used concurrently for different classes of items. During WWII M-1 was also used for both an artillery gun and a half track combat car as well.

180 195

#193 - I read your comments. So you didn't waste your time. I suspect, however, that I wasted my time with those three posts that I made to #179.

Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2011 09:53 AM (sYrWB)

 

Brian other than the fact that not one single thing you said in any of those three posts was accurate you are correct in that you did not waste your time. You did prove that you know absolutely nothing whereof you speak and that your google/wiki skill are not good enough to find the information you need to debunk those you debate.

181

This key to shti si s very simple...

The Constitution stops Congress from infrgingin on the right to bear ARMS... not GUNS.

An Arm at the time in which that the Constitution was written was a Military weapon... thus MILITARY grade weapons should be permissable under the Constitution.

This "debate" about extended clips is just so politicians can say they did somthing.... which will have little impact on the amount of deaths caused, yet WILL continue with the current MISinterpretation of the Constitution... and the tearing down of the the Repbulic (which is based on rule of LAW).

182

#197 - Saying its so ain't going to make it so, and it ain't going to make you any smarter or any less of a loser, and we all know that it ain't going to make you feel any better about yourself either. So what was your point? (Other than just to be nasty, mean, vicious, spiteful, vindictive, hateful and creepy?)

See a psychiatrist, fool. You'll feel better and your neighbors will feel safer.

183

 

magazine capacity does not matter,ten rounds is more than enough a perfect example of this can be found on you tube by watching a limited IPSC limited shooter beat  an open gun shooter.he has to make more mag changes, is using iron sights with no barrel compensation.

i disagree that extended magazines are less reliable. Aerodondo(sp?)makes 6 round extended floor plates that are superior to the factory glock extensions.i have shot tens of thousands of rounds through them with no problems.

if you want to keep lunatics from obtaining firearms ban private sales and tell the ACLU to STFU.they go to court for people who are mentally ill but want to own firearms. They are also one of the biggest obstacles in getting the mentally unbalanced put on 'the can not buy list'the tragic irony is that they disagreed with the Heller decision .go figure.

184 Irony, it's like silvery, only rust colored.

185

And 199 is another peek inside Brian's psyche. If it weren't for projection he'd have no personality at all.

I mean the guy who speculated nastily about the sexual orientation of a US Navy sailor who went  overboard with not one scintilla of evidence or cause accuses others of being "nasty, mean, vicious, spiteful, vindictive, hateful and creepy"?

186 #202 - You're around the bend. You're so sick that you don't realize how sick you are.

187

 

 Romeo13@198.that is the dumbest thing i have read all day and i was just at "think progress".do you really believe the founding fathers would expect people to store cannons and siege engines during times of peace..AYFKM?many of the founders wrote extensively about firearms and the need for them.there is no doubt for the rational mind of what the intentions of the second amendment were when written,it's the most strongly worded amendment. In the BOR.

Even Machiavelli and Gandhi approved of an armed citizenry.

Teh Google is your friend...

188 47 The rationale behind banning high cap mags is the rationale behind the AWB, Sarbanes-Oxley, the 2010 financial reform bill, ad infinitum.  Legislators must prove their value by making a law after every newsworthy event.  As sure as night follows day, every tragedy is followed by a lawmaking travesty. 

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at January 19, 2011 09:46 PM (IlBr+)

Ah, yes.  When a Congress Critter uses the phrase "doing the work of the people" I want to scream, "Get out of the people's way!"  When they say "doing the people's business," my response is "Stay the fuck out of the people's business."

189

Projection is not just a river in Egypt, Brian.

 

190

Brian you are an Idiot.i will give you one example:the Uzi carbine in 9MM has a ten inch barrel.a legal,neutered Uzi has a 16 inch barrel(by law).it increases the velocity so much that you would have to wear a bullet resistant vest one classification higher to stop the same bullet fired from the legal one vs the NFA regulated one.

Here is one more example:a .223 rifle bullet gains 30 FPS from each additional inch of barrel.

It is basic physics...now go crouch in your shame closet...

191 #206 - I feel sorry for you. You're so delusional that you don't realize that you're not even rational. You're really kind of pitiful.

192 Ichi, do you realize how silly you look to any rational person? Of course you don't.

193

Ichi, I do believe our delusional psycho is attempting to bait us into a flame war.

Actually I've been thinking these last few days that this is a froll. A particularly adept froll who plagued us for awhile during the run up to the last election.

194

Posted by: ichi at January 20, 2011 10:37 AM (5ql/p)

Hmmm... Yet almost every town had a TOWN CANNON, FUNCTIONAL, in the town square... Merchent ships at the time carried CANNONs... Men who were part of local militias also brought BAYONETS (not really a non military weapon... not many folks use Bayonets for hunting)...

And "I" know nothing of history?

Arms at the time even included swords... as in some countries at the time it was illegal for hte peasentry to own swords... it being a miliitary ARM.

An Arm, as denoted at the time of the Constitution being signed WAS a military weapon... if you don't like it?  Amend the Constitution...

195 98ZJUSMC, thanks for the info on the M-1 magazine lips. I'll give it a try the next time I head to the range. The M-1 carbine is definitely fun to shoot. Brian, your knowledge of guns is astounding. Astoundingly poor, that is. The M-1 designation was used for both the Garand and the carbine (and a tank, artillery piece and grenade launcher), despite the dramatic differences in the cartridges. And, as others have noted, barrel length has an impact on bullet velocity. Anybody have a good source for synthetic stocks for the M-1 carbine? I've still got the original wood stocks and they're pretty beat up.

196 Another question: Anyone here ever go through the CMP program to pick up a M-1 Garand? I've always wanted one and I was wondering what you had to do to get one throught the CMP program.

197 Cheaper than dirt dot com.  Thank god I already loaded up last year on mags.

Do I need 10 30-round mags for my XM-15E?  Yes.  Yes, I do. 

When the zombies come, you = tasty, me = not tasty.

198 213 Another question: Anyone here ever go through the CMP program to pick up a M-1 Garand? I've always wanted one and I was wondering what you had to do to get one throught the CMP program.

Posted by: ScottE at January 20, 2011 11:22 AM (DoNZk)

Can't answer you question directly, but I remember 20 years ago being in a gun store in Oklahoma and they had garands stacked up like firewood.  Were selling for about $300 each. 

To this day I kick myself in the ass for not buying out the whole store.

199 Suffice to say, Scott, you're full of shit. Just like the other blowhards and bullshit artists here.

200

ScottE at 213 - I started the process back in the '90s but didn't have the time then to finish. As I understand you have to shoot at a sanctioned CMP event, and score above a qualification score. The shoot is for "high power" rifles and is limited to iron sights, no optics allowed. The one shoot I participated in was held here in CT and (IIRC) we were shooting at 300 yards. I was using a borrowed Garand and shooting about the worst I have ever shot. One guy had a Springfield Armory M-1A (Note to Brian - This is not a Garand or a carbine.) with scope mounted and they made him leave the scope caps on and use the iron sights under the scope mount as he wasn't willing to dimount the scope and lose his zero.

I don't know what the full set of requirements are as regards what rifles or calibers can be fired in the qualification rounds. Everbody at our shoot (about eight guys) were using either a Garand or M-14 variant in either .30-06 or .308 caliber.

201 #210 - With your every creepy post you continue to make my point. You're weird.

202 Oh and Scott don't let (sYrWB) bait you.

203 The lack of an ignore button is just another knock against Pixy's ancient blog design. 

What ever happened to new.mu?

204

Still lurking in the shadows and stalking me, eh Toby? Are you queer for me?

You're one very creepy little weirdo.

205 toby928 at 220 - It is still out there the last I knew. Ace had to use it for a brief period when this one was down. I used to keep it bookmarked on my old machine.

206 Brian - How's the bean?

207

Have a blue: this Lumkin is hardly adept..as trolls go this one gets a C-.

Lazy too...i give it a D for effort...

208

There are good reasons why I make you feel insecure, inferior, inadequate and stupid.

Those reasons are that you are insecure, inferior, inadequate and stupid.

209 just another dipsh|t pointing out that any shoemaker with a garage, some box tubing,  and springs can make a magazine of any capacity he wants.  any attempt to legislate magazine size should be recognized for what it is, grandstanding.

210 Have Blue, thanks for the info. I'll have to look into it. I've got an M-1A, so it sounds like I could qualify with that. And it would take more than Brian's content-free ad hominem to get me to respond.

211 Anybody have a good source for synthetic stocks for the M-1 carbine?

I Googled and they seem plentiful.  I can't give any firsthand accounts, alas.

212

LOL - But, but, but, Scott, you did respond. Well, to your screwy way of thinking, you didn't. Dayum son, but you're dense, ditzy and dumb.

 

213 ScottE at 227 - Actually I prefer  Brian try to insult me rather than throw slurs based on sexual orientation at US Navy sailors currently missing overboard at sea.

214 toby at 228 - Perhaps if Brian followed your link he could come back and tell us that the M-1 isn't a carbine but a full size rifle and we are just "insecure, inferior, inadequate and stupid."

215

 

"Those reasons are that you are insecure, inferior, inadequate and stupid"

 

*yawn*you cannot comprehend basic physics and you think the second amendment doesn't cover firearms...you make me feel bored and slightly sad,champ.i gave you several chances to prove your troll fu today..you have failed miserably in that regard.i suggest you practice some where more suited to your abilities,a special education support blog thread perhaps?

 

i'm out.have fun conscious dreaming 'lil fella...

216

I stand corrected on that, but with a caveat.

The Garand and one version of the carbine were both M-1's, but the carbine with which I'm familiar, the one with selective fire was an M-2. It was developed because of the U.S. Army's need for a machine pistol, similar to one used by the Germans that provided rapid fire power.  BTW, before you assholes get petty and nitpicky, I'm talking about WW II and Korean War era here.

But the M-3 submachine gun was found to be preferable for a variety of reasons, just four of which were that it was much cheaper to manufacture, and it was easier and faster to manufacture in large quantities, and it had fewer parts,  and it used the same .45 ACP ammo used it pistols, as opposed to making a third kind of ammo for it, which created supply problems. 

BTW, shit-for-brains, unlike you, I don't need to use Google. 

217 Ichi, I wasn't even discussing the 2nd Amendment and I aced physics, and either you are dyslexic or you have zero reading comprehension skills or you're just slimy, considering that you took my words out of context and you attributed statements to me that I didn't even make. So go fuck yourself, you asshole.

218 192

BTW, #179, the velocity of a cartidge's projectile will be determined by the chemical components in the cartridge - not by the length of a rifle's barrel.

Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2011 08:36 AM (sYrWB)

Ichi - Yeah, listen to him. He aced physics.

/sarc

 

219

Posted by: Have Blue at January 20, 2011 01:01 PM (mV+es)

 

^THAT^, folks, from a creepy loser who probably has only a G.E.D., if even that. 

220

Well at least we now know that Brian has seen the James Taranto thread. Oddly enough he does not get the whole point of illustrating the educational snobbery of liberals.

Well not odd that he doesn't get it, that we would have taken for granted.

221 A possible further source of confusion. The M-3 designation was used for M-1/M-2 carbine with an early active infrared sight (produced in small numbers and introduced in 1945), as well as for the submachine gun in .45 ACP. The M-3 designation has also been used for a 37mm anti-tank gun, an 105mm howitzer, a .50 caliber machine gun, a 20mm anti-aircraft gun, a knife, the Bradley infantry vehicle, two different medium tanks, a light tank, a scout car and a half track. Yes, I had to look it up. I knew had been re-used a number of times, but I didn't how many times!

222 Edit: I knew it had been re-used a number of times, but I didn't know how many times! Don't feed the trolls! They just bloat up and when you puncture them, they make a horrible mess.

223 ScottE - Esentially the US Army assigned model numbers sequentially to every thing. The Light Tank M-3 and Medium Tank M-3 and Halftrack M-3 and so on infinitum had nothing in common but for the fact that they were the third model in each category assigned a number after the numbering scheme was adopted.

224 As usual, another gun thread, I have no time.

First of all, if your extended magazine is unreliable, it's because it was badly made, not an inherent thing. People buy cheap crap and think it's interchangeable with well-made models, they're not.

Secondly, springs wear when cycled, not when stored. Spring binding is a question of design, not length.

Thirdly, there's nothing wrong with a 9mm. It's a question of velocity and projectile design. 9mms perform best with a modified alloy hollow point (like a Gold Dot) at around 1200-1300 fps, 115-124gr. That' a relatively hot load and a lot of commercial ammo doesn't meet that, but the hotter 9mm loads are essentially the same as the classic 125gr .357 Magnum that tops the 1-hit stop charts. So, there's nothing wrong with 9mm. If you load big ball ammunition at low speeds, of COURSE a .45 will do better, it's a bigger bullet.

Fourthly, the entire subject of these bans is hogwash, paranoia and people looking for answers in the wrong place, and the fact that liberals are congenitally incapable of accepting the fact that there are some things they just don't have the authority to do. "Question authority" never was about other people's authority, it was about what they wanted to impose on others and weren't allowed to do - where the left-hippies and the libertarian-hippies parted ways.

Fifthly, damit out of time leaving late...

225

And then just to confuse things in the 80's they decided to pull a whole new scheme out of their hat. The M-1 tank followed the M-60 in active service. The M-2 Infantry Combat Vehicle and the M-3 Cavalry Combat Vehicle did follow the M-1 sequentially. If they had followed the prior system then the M-2 Bradley would have been the M-118 Armored Personell Carrier (or so, I don't know how many numbers they actually assigned after the M-115 (which never entered service.)) If they decided to start over or decided that the Bradley was the first ever "Infantry Combat Vehicle" instead of and APC they should have called it M-1 also.

Of course the Navy screwed things up even more when they restarted numbering subs with the SSN-21 Seawolf for 21st Century, there by messing up a designation that went all the way back to the first US submarines.

226 Also "Brian" (sYrWB) is a creepy troll/Moby who drops turdsd and insults people because of his daddy issues. Best to ignore.

227 It is mildly amusing that the troll made three technical assertions on this thread and all of them are wrong.

A perfect example of a 12%'er.

228 Have Blue: I know, which is why I looked it up. I did some further research. Every number, from M-1, up to M-21 has been used multiple times, with the sole exception of M-13. It has only been used once, to refer to the disintegrating link used in belt-fed 7.62mm weapons. Is the Army superstitious?

229 What isn't amusing, Merovign, is that you have a history here of being an ignorant, clueless, kind of dumb, old blowhard and a  bullshit artist ...., gee, just like those other losers here. What a coincidence.

230 Merovign: Yeah, clearly not the brightest bulb. All he does is spew. And he's not even very good at that either.

231

#237 - LOL - Thanks. You made my point (again). Open mouth, insert foot, fool?

_{(Pssssst, betcha #237 just said, "Duh". These fools make it too easy.)}

#238 - I reiterate; you're full of shit. BTW, your attempt to conceal your ignorance and to save face just ain't work'n. You just look more foolish.

232 Well, T.T.F.N., you batty, reactionary dimwits.

233 BTW, Scott, if you hadn't been such an insufferable asshole, I would have offered to sell you either one of my three M-1's or one of my two M-14's which I inherited from my late uncle's estate, along with a whole bunch of other firearms for which I have no use. You'll find that if you're civil with me, I'll be civil with you. But if you want to be an asshole, hey ......

234

Have reviewed the entire thread back to comment 130 and have not found a single comment by ScottE that could be counted as negative about anyone until he was attacked. And at that he only pointed out the obvious fact that you're not the brightest of bulbs.

Not joining in nasty ad hominum attacks against other readers is not being "an insufferable asshole".

 

And you never did answer when I asked, "How's the bean?"

235 Oh, crap, what was his old username.. I can't remember. It was a different hash, too. used to brag about how much money he made in the market and couldn't define basic financial terms correctly... same incandescent, sneering hatred of the öther."

Most of our trolls are repeats, down to 3 or 4 actual people who must lead very, VERY sad lives.

236 Suffice to say, Merovign, you are a liar. Whenever you can't find fault with someone for legitimate reasons, you contrive reasons. You. are. such. a. creep. and. such. a. loser. You sure bond with your own kind.

237 Still obsessing after me with your creepy comments, eh #251? You're one sick puppy.

238 Have Blue: I learned, oh around age 5 or 6, that if you start calling people names, you've lost the argument. I can't say that I've always maintained my decorum, but I try. It can be amusing to watch someone reduced to a sputtering rage. Mostly, however, it's just sad.

239 Rage? Yeah, right. As if. No, Scott, what's sad and pathetic is that you're so wussy that that you  have to get support from others, and you seek to ingratiate yourself with creeps and losers to feel better about yourself, and you have to lie to yourself, also. with your contrived and bogus beliefs. You're not much of a man, Scott. But I'm sure that women have told you that, too, haven't they? 

240

@13: "Shall not be infringed means what it says."

In practice, it means what we say.  And, quite frankly, we say infringe the shit outta that bitch.  Except, you know, in Latin, so it sounds all elite an' shit.

241

@83: "Since all the assassins of recent history have been leftists"

Might wanna caveat that to read American assassins.  Thanks everso.

242 Aw crap - that was only supposed to be Zombie Olaf Palme.  The others were for a different joke.

243

Hey Brian

The moment you feel like unloading M-14's you let me know-

244 253 Suffice to say, Merovign, you are a liar. Whenever you can't find fault with someone for legitimate reasons, you contrive reasons. You. are. such. a. creep. and. such. a. loser. You sure bond with your own kind.

Posted by: Brian at January 20, 2011 04:46 PM (sYrWB)

I think the fact that you are a sad and bitter person is pretty much established by your own actions. You come to a place you find distasteful, and denigrate, abuse, and lie about those you meet.

Some sort of counseling is probably in order. Obviously, in real life, people can shun you, and avoid your company. It must be comforting in the online world to run around and not have to face immediate and personal consequences for your hostility and dishonesty, and refreshing to be able to change your name and run from one place to another with so little effort.

Doesn't really help you or your ideology in the long run, but I guess we all have our destructive addictions. Ho-hos might be healthier, actually.

245

 haha

246

lol

 

247

try again

248 http://bing.com

249

<a href="http://www.bing.com">Bing</a>

 

250

http://www.bing.com

 

251

dammit

bing

 

252

grr

 

253

grrrrrrrr

 

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