August 29, 2011

And just when we thought Irene was gone... (tmi3rd)
— Open Blogger

As Dell in Vermont was trying to get across to us (and me specifically), Irene wasn't quite done yet. Unfortunately, this is very typical of any landfalling tropical system- it doesn't do all of its damage on landfall, but usually waits a day to get inland, floods the living crap out of some inland state that usually doesn't have to mess with this kind of stuff, and it creates its own problems.

At this point, we leave the land of meteorology and we start moving into the land of hydrology- the study of movement, distribution, and quality of water... in other words, what happens with rivers when you dump a bunch of water into it? Khan.jpg

Nooooo... you can't get away... to the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee... for hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee..."

I couldn't find a rainfall map of Vermont, but what we're seeing now is the same kind of thing that happened- in an extreme case- in Virginia in 1969 after Camille went ashore at Pass Christian, MS... everyone was staring at the utter annihilation pictures from the Gulf Coast, and Camille scooted up through the I-65 corridor, turned east, and dropped a foot of rain on Virginia. Predictably, a lot of folks in the Appalachians got flooded out, and it killed a bunch of people.

I don't know how long this link will be good, but at the link, the public information statement has rainfall totals for eastern New York and Vermont... looks like about 4-8 inches from yesterday and today in most spots. Some got a bit less.

I'm completely unfamiliar with the topography and the layout of bodies of water in Vermont- there's a staff of usually about 4 people at the Weather Service office in most places that handle hydrology. Up in that neck of the woods, that staff will handle flooding predictions when river ice melts and dams up places, and obviously, situations like this. Hydrology is a science with which I'm almost completely unfamiliar, so if you're concerned about a body of water near you flooding, your best bet is to check with your NWS office or your local emergency management agency. The EMA folks are likely to be a bit better at dealing with the public... not to be a jerk about it, but hydrologists are usually very proficient with calculus but don't do a lot of public speaking, if you get my drift.

Getting back to the topic, 4-8" is going to be a flooding rain, but how much rain do you get with an inch of rain? It's not like we learn that conversion in high school.

So, here's an idea, paraphrased from the US Geological Survey. Over 1 square acre of land, an inch is about 27,000 gallons of water. Over 1 square mile, an inch is 17.38 million gallons of water. And, finally, over an area the size of the District of Columbia, an inch of rain is 1.07 billion gallons of water. Now multiply that times four or eight, and that's what some might call a metric shitload of water.

Finally, a quick note to talk about the very general differences between a Nor'easter and a tropical cyclone- a Nor'easter, although it's a cyclone, is driven by cold air, whereas a tropical cyclone is driven by warm air. So? Well, when it comes to generating rain, warm systems are waaaaay more efficient, and far more organized in a specific fashion. Cold air systems, by contrast, can come from a number of different sources, and don't require that specific structure that tropical systems require to survive. As such, you may see up to hurricane-force winds out of a Nor'easter... you may even get bizarre monstrosities like 1991's "Perfect Storm", which was was a hurricane combined with a Nor'easter. In any event, a tropical cyclone's warm characteristics make its ability to generate rain far more potent than non-tropical cyclones, and so you get big rainmakers like what has made a mess in Vermont and now in Quebec and Maine.

Finally, hurricane season doesn't end until the 1st of December, so the game isn't over yet. Hopefully, that's it for the Eastern Seaboard for this year. It's been reasonably quiet so far- I haven't checked, but I think this is the only landfalling system that's made any noise this year.

-tmi3rd

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:12 AM | Comments (15)
Post contains 752 words, total size 5 kb.

1 For bonus points, this has been an abnormally rainy period this past couple of weeks.  One of the more notorious risks in storms of this kind comes with saturated ground--it makes it that much easier for trees and other such things to become unmoored and get blown over or otherwise toppled.  This also applies to more than a few man-made objects under such conditions.

As a side point, my brother that lives up in Chappaqua (yeah, we give him crap for it from time to time) is very pleased with precautions he'd taken for entirely different reasons.  After losing power for an extended period during one of the ice storms a couple of  years back, he'd invested in a diesel generator and tankage, so as not to be stuck with that problem in future winters.  Fast forward, and Irene knocks out power in August...he, his wife, and his three kids are very glad for that backup power right about now.

Posted by: DarkLord© sez Obama is a stuttering clusterf--- of a miserable failure
Oh, and F--- Nevada!
at August 29, 2011 09:22 AM (GBXon)

2 Also, Vermont's terrain looks like this: /\/\/\/\

'The Green Mountain State.'

Just sayin'.

All that water is washing downstream as we speak, to my backyard. CT River is predicted to crest at 24.5' in Hartford.

Much over that, and my home will be lakefront.

Posted by: lauraw at August 29, 2011 09:27 AM (7PbVa)

3 easier for trees and other such things to become unmoored

OMG enough with the fancy words, you could have just said "less".

Posted by: Meggy Mac at August 29, 2011 09:32 AM (zZmaW)

4 no, no, no ... unmoor is when you try to make people pay for electricity and water ... unlike in Africa where it is free ...

Posted by: Adriane at August 29, 2011 09:37 AM (L9W0l)

5 Basically, water finds a way to infiltrate everything from dirt to steel. Sometimes slowly (gradualism), sometimes quickly (catastrophism). Upon saturation, loosely packed substances become 'quick'. And lose their cohesive characteristics. Landslides, mudslides, washouts, sinkholes, etc. getout the kayaks.

Posted by: Cris at August 29, 2011 09:40 AM (zfvEm)

6 Vermont is shaped like a funnel, so all of that water is going to end up in western Mass.

Posted by: Roy at August 29, 2011 09:42 AM (VndSC)

7 We've property in NY's Essex County, just summer camp, thank goodness, but it is inaccessible now due to bridge and road washouts.  Multiple small dirt-road bridges, and large sections of same roads that run along brooks are gone, deep rockstrewn gullies now, situation for repair unknown.

Year-round neighbors uphill from us, at least four families, all without power, and completely stranded until something can be done.

It would take huge culverts, maybe 10 foot diameter, to be able to get something temporary in place so real bridge rebuilding can be done.

This is cash-strapped NY, in one of its large upstate and hardscrabble poor counties.

Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at August 29, 2011 09:42 AM (4sQwu)

8 My two sisters live in NJ just ten miles from Manhattan.  One will have no electricity for a week and the other saw a tiny creek three blocks away become a lake and flood her basement and first floor.  She won't be able to live back there for a month or more. She's devastated.

Many in Manhattan may be saying how Irene was all hype but multiply my family's misfortune by hundreds of thousands combined in NY state, PA, NJ, VT, etc.

Posted by: JMS at August 29, 2011 09:57 AM (q2OAE)

9

Finally, hurricane season doesn't end until the 1st of December, so the game isn't over yet.

Hurricane season doesn't peak until September 10. We're not even at halftime.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 29, 2011 10:04 AM (RZRz9)

10 Vermonter here:

During Sunday/Sunday night, every single numbered route in Vermont, with the exception of our Interstates, was closed somewhere on its length.  Several small mountain towns are completely cut off.  Road washouts are everywhere.  Seven inches of rain on a mountain whose peak is 3000 feet above the town 9 miles down the road tends to cause monster flash floods that erode highways almost instantly.

I'm lucky in that I live in NW Vermont, which bore little of the brunt of this storm.  Southern Vermont is a mess and will be a mess for quite some time.  All of the images seen on national media are from Brattleboro & Bennington, both close to our southern border.

Posted by: Captain Ned at August 29, 2011 10:25 AM (4DXCI)

11 I still don't think the totality of the effects of flooding in PA and NJ have been recognized. As I said in the very first tmi3 post on this the hydrology is more important then analyzing the wind strength. I think we will find that the flooding damage will be the most ever recorded.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at August 29, 2011 10:53 AM (gcxdG)

12 Quilly, that's always the story with hurricanes. We lean on the cyclonic strength because of its ability to create tornado-like conditions over a large area upon landfall, but the real cost comes in with the flooding. Along similar lines, people figure that once the storm loses its more spectacular features (wind, high seas) that it's no longer a threat... like the imbeciles in CT who decided to go kayaking in it. We'll see more drowning fatalities in days 3-5 of the storm, usually, than in the first 48 hours of landfall.

Posted by: tmi3rd at August 29, 2011 11:06 AM (WRtsc)

13 "As Dell in Vermont was trying to get across to us (and me specifically), Irene wasn't quite done yet."

Having read the posts and comments over the past couple of days regarding this storm, it's pretty obvious that I don't belong here.

The worst flooding in a nearly one hundred years and this storm was over-hyped?

Rather than being thankful that it wasn't a category 2 or 3 when it made landfall, the vast majority declared the storm "over" as soon as it left New York City and went up the coast to New Brunswick.

Oh, wait.  It didn't go up the coast?  The spaghetti models (all but one) predicted it would skirt Cape Cod and then veer northeasterly, into New Hampshire and Maine.  The storm changed course and made landfall in western Massachusetts, then proceeded right up the gut into Vermont, devastating just about every city and town along its route.

This is the story that everyone missed.  Everyone except the MyFoxHurricane web site, which recognized the devastation that was about to take place and stayed open to provide emergency information to hundreds of its chat room users until the storm had moved far into Canada.

Now, I've read hundreds of comments here from people who think that Vermonters aren't so tough because there have been other storms that have done far more damage and resulted in many more fatalities in other parts of the country and there's "really no story here at all".  It's all hype, despite the fact that early estimates put the damage at billions of dollars to repair. 

One commenter seems to have summed it up nicely:  "Fuck You New England".

Well.  OK.  If that's the way it is, so be it.  As a 66 year old native Vermonter, I've been kicked out of better places and have weathered a storm or two in my day.  With any luck I'll weather a few more.

tmi3rd, kudos to you for taking a keen interest and explaining some of the scientific phenomenon that takes place in such meteorological events.  The real story of this event has nothing to do with the lamestream media over-hyping Hurricane Irene.  It's the horrible damage done to several coastal states, as well as the record-breaking devastation in New England.

On that note, I bid you adieu.

And don't worry, I won't let the door hit me....blah, blah, blah 





Posted by: Dell - Son Of Libertea at August 29, 2011 01:30 PM (3S10h)

14
I am definitely bookmarking this page and sharing it with my friends.

Posted by: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People AudioBook at August 29, 2011 03:39 PM (pCCk4)

15 thanks a lot
hard job

Posted by: CCcam at August 29, 2011 08:05 PM (Nij6I)

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