1 I understand the feeling, but I'm worried at what the comments here are going to devolve into.

2 eh.

3 What I mean by this is, I think I'm close to Option #2 myself.  But I'm not *gleeful* about it.

4 I suppose "eh" is right.  Reading about this story has me sputtering with rage, honestly.  But I don't trust my instincts.

5 I don't see any words being worse than what I'm thinking. I do not wish to fight in their hellholes forever. But I also don't wish to be held in terror by these murder-cult savages either, which means the response is going to have to stop being so civilized and precise. They wish to make war, but they want to do so insulated from the horrors of war. They're being infantilized by permitting to choose this course, war without consequences. At the end of the day it wasn't the Navy that ended the Japanese Empire.

6 What a sad religion.

7 Feel ya.  Really.

Civilization is for the civilized.  Barbarians, well, they're barbarians for a reason.

My Catholic background saddles me with the whole 'just war' concept.  I have, after much soul-searching, come to the conclusion that, proper as that is between civilized adversaries, against those who can most charitably described as atavistic barbarians, a cursory attempt to convert and merciless suppression of the remainder is called for.

8 "After 9/11, I had a much less Christian sort of thought about how to deal with a murder cult."

I always figured you for one of those blood-drinking Jews.

9 When a religion exists that is bent on purging you from the planet, maybe we should purge them first.

10 What we need to do is genetically engineer an STD which (1) causes immediate sterilization and eventual death, and (2) is only transmittable by man-on-goat sex.

Islamotard problem solved!

11 This way of war is too expensive, and it's not worth it. They don't seem to realize we have other options.

12 Back to good old reliable Daisycutters and Carpetbombing.
The smart bomb is one of the worst things we invented.

I think  the world should know that if we're pissed off enough to load up the bombers, a Shitstorm of Biblical Proportions ^TM is headed their way.

The populace of some of these countries would hold their leaders accountable once knowing this to be true.

13 Plan C:
Foreign Aid is now Dillingers and ammo to everywhere that we feel is oppressive. Yes, this may include Chicago and Detroit.

14 Is this going to be a stand-up fight, or another bug-hunt?

[endless Diplomatic babble]

It's a bug-hunt.

15 Ace,

Compassion and mercy are not expensive luxuries. They are some of the things that define us. But compassion and mercy have to be executed correctly, and with authority. One of the failings of our conduct of the Iraqi war was our inability to balance compassion and mercy with firm resolve and force.

16 10, not bad. However don't you think we should secure the border first? I kind of like my goat but not in THAT way.

17 They don't seem to realize we have other options.

No, they just realize we won't use them.  They certainly would, if the situations were reversed.

Which is why we ought to have been making sure they never could be.  Alas...

18 WASHINGTON, APRIL 1, 2011 -- In a fingertip-to-the-brim nod to its American frontier history, the Army is changing hats again - returning to the tumultuous days of the horse Cavalry in the wild west and adopting a dark blue Stetson as the official headgear for the current force of 1.1 million Soldiers. http://preview.tinyurl.com/3mkhnfo

19

The "Bush Way" is also characterized by neglect of cultural differences resulting in absurd expectations about what is actually practical in these countries. We are still just as concerned with setting up quasi-stable, somewhat Islamist, somewhat republican forms of government in these areas than retribution or breaking the will of those who want to attack us. Even worse, we don't seem to realize when the two are in conflict.

Security should be the focus of US foreign policy in these matters. We shouldn't have to rely on a veneer of pseudo-liberalism to justify military actions which support our interest.

If it means that our actions run closer to #2, that is our mission.

20 >>>Compassion and mercy are not expensive luxuries. of course they are. They're definitely expensive. As they say of baseball, if it was easy, everyone would do it. And they are luxuries, too -- as luxuries are defined. Can you live without them? Of course, of course. A meaner life, but you can live without them.

21

 

They also delivered something finer than justice. Compassion, mercy.

 

Of course the problem there is in the muslim world compassion and mercy are viewed has weakness

22 Louis the 7th of France said that the best way to deal with a Muslim is with a sword in the guts.

We have changed, but Islam hasn't. What should be done to combat a 7th century mindset, when we are constrained by 21st century ideals?

23 Ace, sounds like your doing a real good rationalization there, but bottom line, ya only win wars by blowing your enemy away.

24 What should be done to combat a 7th century mindset, when we are constrained by 21st century ideals? Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at April 01, 2011 05:33 PM (LH6ir) I'm not. Elect me

25 I don't have a ""nuke 'em till they glow and shoot them in the dark" attitude, but it's high time we stopped kidding ourselves about what we're up against. They must fear us before they will respect us. And that will require ruthless violence on a large scale. And at least short periods of mercilessness. Few of them value life not their own. They must fear for their lives.

26 Eh, indeed.

This recent Koran thing is a convenient excuse they can use to generate sympathy in the Western media.  You'll notice no one offered a justification for the murder of this British doctor and nine others, other than the usual "they were infidels, what did you expect?"   You'll also remember it got zero attention from the BLM.

27 Really good post.

28
The smart bomb is one of the worst things we invented.




Actually, no. It's one of the best force multipliers ever devised for aircraft. It makes a single F15 Strike Eagle equivalent to a WWII-era 1000 plane raid on Germany. The main reason that huge numbers of bombs were needed in times past was because of how difficult it was to destroy a single point target with the equipment of that era. Hence, throw more ordnance at the target until you hit the damned thing. Expensive in hardware, even more expensive in highly trained flight crews.

The problem is how our "political betters" mandate the military use them. Smart bombs have nothing to do with reducing collateral damage, but you can't convince a politician of that truth.

29 "...of course they are. They're definitely expensive. As they say of baseball, if it was easy, everyone would do it"

I meant not that compassion and mercy weren't expensive, but that they weren't luxuries.

Do you want to live in an America that isn't willing to spend gold and blood to protect what we believe is the right way to behave? And I don't care at all about the lives of the savages who are busy killing each other (and us when they can) all over the Muslim world. I care only about what our behavior says about us.

30 >>>I don't have a ""nuke 'em till they glow and shoot them in the dark" attitude even without nukes, if you're not going to target specific terrorists (which you can't, really, unless you're occupying a country, and we can't occupy ALL of them) the option on the table is "hit what you can," which is the villages they have support in.

31 >>>Do you want to live in an America that isn't willing to spend gold and blood to protect what we believe is the right way to behave? Honestly, yes, I'll give it a shot.

32 To be kind to the cruel is to be cruel to the kind, Ace. Still...

Knowing that these Islamists would gleefully use nuclear weapons (or worse, as I consider biological weapons worse than nuclear or chem - at least for the latter two, the danger is more or less localized than the former), I still can't figure out what a modern society should do in the face of a threat with a 7th century mindset that would gladly yield 21st century weapons to facilitate our total destruction. 

Does that make us weak?  Or merely human?  Or both?

33

How about cordoning off the Islamic world from civilization as option 3? Sure, we can buy oil from Arabia, but we don't have to let their citizens enter our country. Same for the rest of them. No more student visas, lottery visas, whatever. And let other countries know that their Islamic citizens (ahem, France & Britain, e.g.) won't be let in either. And that means expelling those that are already here unless they have citizenship.

34

So with all the calls for violent uprisings and "Death to the West" throughout the Muslim world, particularly since "W.O.T. 3: Police Academy in Libya" premiered, the murderous Muslim mobs activated because a book got burned?

Their entire culture is an excuse.

35

Someone linked to an anagram maker in the previous thread.

My whole name including middle turns into HUM! LUCRATIVE AROMATIC

36

http://tinyurl.com/3kjl3

Another day. . .

37

Current US policy assumes that democratic institutions (whatever that is supposed to mean in these countries) will drain the swamp of corruption, terrorism, and poverty.

I don't know how many generations this is supposed to take or why we are responsible for paying the absurd price for civilizational renewal. Our responsibility is the safety of our citizens. We shouldn't have to balance around the violence of a particular region/religion for fear of not being seen as liberators rather than crusaders.

And obviously, no matter what we have done or how 'born-again' the policy has been, are we really seen all that well in these countries? How much has this really earned us? Where are our gains in cultural transformation and how strong are their chances for continuing in the future?

38 Those barbarian visigoths are too stupid and disorganized to worry about.  Anyway, ya really think we're going to lose all this?

39 I'm not. Elect me

Posted by: nevergiveup at April 01, 2011 05:35 PM (7wmOW)

No, I don't believe that. And I am of the mindset that we will eventually have to use nuclear weapons on a good portion of the Islamic world before this century is over. But we once were and can be again, the greatest nation in the history of the world. We should show compassion and mercy until we can't any more, not until we just can't afford it.

40 My problem with your approach, Ace, is: who do you bomb?  Where do you start, where do you stop?  How does one put your policy into practice in the real world?

Tell me how it would work and map out the repercussions realistically and I'm on board.  Emotionally I'm *already* on board.  Practically, though?  I don't see how it doesn't devolve into something uncontrollable and truly unwinnable.

41 If you feel good about yourself after winning a war, you didn't do it right.

42 Also, I would have hoped - but I'm sure it never happened - that Bush would have told the tyrants in charge of the OIC states right after 9/11 that one more event like that and the Muslim world will find out what it's like on the surface of the sun.

43 We should show compassion and mercy until we can't any more, not until we just can't afford it. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at April 01, 2011 05:40 PM (LH6ir) I'm looking at the second hand on my watch

44 I have no problem with a tactical nuke strike on Tehran opr any other shitbag country that threatens my family and my way of life. And what we will soon discover is neither do the Jews.

45 Does that make us weak?  Or merely human?  Or both?

You'll excuse me if I prefer that to be debated in a 22nd century where the true West survived, and Islam was reduced to a few wandering tribes in a harsh place, far from reasonable people.  As it stands, it's likely to be by Islamic scholars discussing the extinction of the West.

46 Honestly, yes, I'll give it a shot.

Posted by: ace at April 01, 2011 05:38 PM (nj1bB)

Then let's start with Israel. We can hang them out to dry in return for a guaranteed supply of below-market oil from the Iranians. That is a smart realpolitik move that will be good for all of our wallets, and will help the economy to grow.

47 >>>My problem with your approach, Ace, is: who do you bomb? Where do you start, where do you stop? How does one put your policy into practice in the real world? You stop worrying about collateral damage so much (Scheuer was actually talking about this) so if you think a town in Afghanistan harbors/supports terrorists, you blow the shit out of it. Yes, many civilians will die. But it's a military target, if we're defining things loosely, and I mean to do just that. After 9/11 a lot of people in America were afraid. these scumbags aren't superman -- they can feel fear too. And they ought to. And they should know there's no American Compassion looking out for their families back home, either.

48 Palin Steele's anagram name is PENILE STALE

49

I go for option 2.

Kill them all, let Allah sort them out.

And I mean that with the utmost sincerity. 

When ALL your people are dead, you can no longer maneuver on the battlefield and consequently, you no longer have the means and where with all to kill the enemy (which is us).

50 Current US policy assumes that democratic institutions (whatever that is supposed to mean in these countries) will drain the swamp of corruption, terrorism, and poverty.

Hell, that doesn't even work here.  Bugger that idea for a foreign policy.

51 >>I have no problem with a tactical nuke strike on Tehran opr any other shitbag country that threatens my family and my way of life. And what we will soon discover is neither do the Jews.

Yes, but what do we say to the Indians when the Pakistanis nuke THEM in retaliation for OUR nuking of an Islamic country?  (A pretext? Sure.  But one that'll happen.) And then the Indians nuke back?  And then it turns into bellum omnia contra omnes?  Have you really gamed this out?

52 >>>Then let's start with Israel. We can hang them out to dry in return for a guaranteed supply of below-market oil from the Iranians. That is a smart realpolitik move that will be good for all of our wallets, and will help the economy to grow. What kind of bullshit is this? To be cruel to my enemies first I have to be cruel to my allies?

53

Collateral damage happens in war, and we can't let the enemy survive for fear of it. It should be terrifying to be anywhere near a supporter of terrorism, and you should be frightened about not turning them in. You may be innocent, but sometimes you have to work to survive.

Make it difficult for anyone in support of a terrorist network to be within 10 meters of another human being.

54 Have you really gamed this out? Posted by: Jeff B. at April 01, 2011 05:44 PM (NjYDy) "How about a nice game of chess Dr. Falkin"

55 Then let's start with Israel. We can hang them out to dry in return for a guaranteed supply of below-market oil from the Iranians. That is a smart realpolitik move that will be good for all of our wallets, and will help the economy to grow.

I hope that's sarcastic.  Sacrificing a critical base and ally in a vain attempt to appease a mortal adversary is the exact opposite of 'smart'.

56 Future history books will not be like Cartman's mom. Socialist =Cartman. Cartman: [sniffles] Last time, when Butters spent the night, I was being really nice to him and I was... gonna take a picture of him for his mom to have. Liane: Ohh, that's nice. Cartman: But then, right when I took the picture, Butters got really hot, so he pulled his pajama bottoms down, and then I tripped, and, fell down, and my mouth landed right on his penis, and, then I thought of something funny, so I smiled up at, the camera and gave like a, thumbs up, and, and then Kyle took the picture from me, and he's gonna show it to everybody, and make them think I'm gaaaaaaay. [turns his face to the wall and cries again]

57 46 - I hope that was a joke on your part. But, Obama is already willing to do that (if only saying it behind closed doors) and it would not be for the oil. I truly believe he has already got it in his mind to offer Israel up.

58 Sacrificing a critical base and ally in a vain attempt to appease a mortal adversary is the exact opposite of 'smart'. Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at April 01, 2011 05:45 PM (GBXon) Hum? But it seems to be the group think in this Administration?

59 You'll excuse me if I prefer that to be debated in a 22nd century where the true West survived, and Islam was reduced to a few wandering tribes in a harsh place, far from reasonable people.  As it stands, it's likely to be by Islamic scholars discussing the extinction of the West.

Point taken.  Sadly, I fear you may be right.

Forgive my lament.  It's just enervating to see the Islamists make their slow but inexorable march towards domination.   Particularly when the learned people should know better.  Even the liberals and communists, but they're too busy trying to use the Islamists to kill the "greater evil". 

60

Then let's start with Israel. We can hang them out to dry in return for a guaranteed supply of below-market oil from the Iranians. That is a smart realpolitik move that will be good for all of our wallets, and will help the economy to grow.

You're weak. I'm going to take advantage of you.

61 Then let's start with Israel. We can hang them out to dry in return for a guaranteed supply of below-market oil from the Iranians. That is a smart realpolitik move that will be good for all of our wallets, and will help the economy to grow.

Ron Paul!

62 58 Sacrificing a critical base and ally in a vain attempt to appease a mortal adversary is the exact opposite of 'smart'.
Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at April 01, 2011 05:45 PM (GBXon)

Hum? But it seems to be the group think in this Administration?

Posted by: nevergiveup at April 01, 2011 05:46 PM (7wmOW)

I hope I don't actually have to explain what that says about this Administration...

63 Anyone thinking that even the complete destruction of Israel would do anything to quench the expansionist thirst of Islamism hasn't been paying attention. They go until they're stopped. By force or fear of force. Every single time. Everywhere on earth.

64 Right before BHO, the evil one took office I begged, pleaded, and screamed for my son to get out of the US Military. The stories he told out of A Stan would make you cry. Such barbarity beyond the human mind.

65 I was proud of what Bush, and the troops fighting for America, did for me, and for all of us.



Thanks for using the words 'did for me' and 'did for all of us'.  That is one thing my lib-idiot brother will never understand.  What Bush did he did for us, The American People.  What our troops are doing, they are doing for us, again - the American People.

Now, as to compassion or compression, I say compression.  These violent savages need to be boxed in.  They need to fear the world.

66 I'll say something else, too. I goddamn sick and tired of all the politically correct bullshit we have to put up with at airports. Why are we strip searching Granny when we fucking know who the problem is? Fuck the Muslims fucking up our lives. Lets fuck their lives up for a while. Hold them responsible for their bullshit instead of making excuses for their criminality. They need to be made uncomfortable, ashamed of their "religion". Treated like the backward aberrations they are.

67 Of course the problem there is in the muslim world compassion and mercy are viewed has weakness

If "diversity" wasn't a euphemism for "fuck white people", the people who make their living touting "cross-cultural understanding " could have transmitted that information to Western society, and we could have adjusted our approach to better fit their worldview.  Instead, we act like their culture has the same values and norms as the U.S., which is an act of actual racism and cultural imperialism (that we can't recognize because those words have been so twisted beyond parody).

68 Hi. Been reading the site for years, but I've never commented before. But I'm definitely of the mindset that it's past time to turn the middle east into glass.

69

I don't know if you mean this as well Ace, but there is another emotional element of the conflict.

In this country, Bush and many others were doing everything to convince us that Islam is not a real problem, the religion is peaceful, Muslim immigration is not a problem, etc. On top of that, citizens have been expected to pay huge sums to help rebuild countries and institutions, change their expectations of civil liberties, and still live in a reasonable expectation of another attack.

We have given up a lot to be in this 'born-again' policy, and we are right to ask what we are getting in return. Instead, we are supposed to be compelled by moral standing to not ask practical questions about sacrifices and to focus on the human rights of non-citizens thousands of miles away who more often than not, agree more with those against us than for us.

We can't fight the war we wish someone would fight against us. We have to fight the war that exists. If that involves acts of collective violence at times to reorganize incentives for collaborating or encouraging terrorism, so be it. Our current policy has a small chance of accomplishing our objective even over decades with billions and billions of dollars spent, and more importantly the loss of many brave soldiers lives.

70 I say hit that section of the planet with nukes until the earth looks like a lifesaver candy.

71 Unavoidable collateral damage is one thing. Slaughtering civilians is something completely different.

Conducting a war with rules of engagement that are designed to satisfy lawyers in an office in the justice department is no way to win! But indiscriminate killing is anathema to the American spirit.

I am talking about the traditional, exceptional American view that all life is worth protecting, unless it demonstrates something else. And then kill it with everything in our arsenal. For example; we bent over backwards to minimize the killing of the Iraqi army, and in the process lost American soldiers. But in return we got a country that didn't understand that they had just gotten their asses kicked, and decided to fight for several more years. Too much compassion and mercy got us an insurgency that was responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis.

72 We are here because rough people did what had to be done.  Those acts were not always 'in keeping with our best principles', but they did make it possible for those best principles to survive and be implemented.  Call it the Principle of the Necessary Barbarian:  Civilization cannot defend itself against barbarism solely on its own terms.

We used to understand that.  We better remember it or we're toast.

73 Latest reports I've seen are 8 killed

74 A serious question for Ace:

Given that as part of their religion, muslims are required to make the pilgrimage to Mecca - would you support bombing Mecca and Medina? Not necessarily saying nuke them, but carpet bomb the hell out of each one.

I can see arguments for and against... and really, I'm not sure what side I'd come down on.

But for the record - after 9/11 - I wanted us to nuke someone.

75 Well I don't think we need to start bombing population centers (at least not yet), but we do need to be a lot more cold-blooded and non-squeamish about this war.

A lot of hostile people in the middle east need to be blown up or just wake up dead with lead slug in their head. And if some civilians are killed as part of this, well that's a shame but then war is a terrible thing. Plus it should be dangerous to be around Bad Guys.

Maybe what we should do is conduct two simultaneous wars: a clean, humane one in public plus a covert dirty, no mercy, no rules one in private with plausible deniability. I can live with that.

76 My name anagram w/o my middle name is HUM! I AM ACE ULTRA

77 Plus, in Afghanistan, many countries wanted to pull out because NATO wouldn't let them stop child rapes even if they were happening right in front of soldiers.  They were told it is the law of the land (raping women and children) and they could do nothing to stop it.

They have no compassion.  They are pure evil.  They use a book to justify all the evil things they do.  Would the world just accept it if Jews or Christians did the same?  Hell no.

78 >>>>In this country, Bush and many others were doing everything to convince us that Islam is not a real problem, the religion is peaceful, Muslim immigration is not a problem, right, well that was part of his strategy of giving them a decent path. Closed hand threatens, open hand welcomes. but since the entire strategy seems far too costly for far too little payoff we can abandon that prong of it too.

79

The question you can ask yourselves: How do we make them police themselves? They should fight for their lives to uncover and turn in Jihadis in their midst.

80

A clue?

Map -- World Prevalence of Consanguinity

http://tinyurl.com/2kuqth

For the purposes of the study, consanguineous marriage is defined as unions beetween second cousins or closer. Globally, the most common form of consanguineous union contracted is between first cousins.

 

 

81

If you could, for sake of argument, remove Islam from the earth for the past ten years, how many terrorist attacks would have occurred?

Would that number be less than the actual number? By how much? I submit over 99% of all attacks around the world an untold lives would have been spared without one religion in the world.

Now, let's look forward to the next ten years. How many attacks will be committed on behalf of Islam? Is it a lot? How many innocents will die at the hands of these sub-human bastards?

What should a reasonable person do, knowing what has happened in the past and what WILL happen going forward. What should we be willing to do to prevent the deaths we KNOW are coming?

82 >>>Given that as part of their religion, muslims are required to make the pilgrimage to Mecca - would you support bombing Mecca and Medina? Not necessarily saying nuke them, but carpet bomb the hell out of each one. no, not unless you've already decided on a policy of nuclear genocide (and of course seizing all the oil). Unless you've decided to simply, very literally "Kill them All" (which isn't what I'm proposing) that makes no sense. That sort of thing is really only justifiable if we've just decided there's not enough room on the earth for both of us.

83 "What kind of bullshit is this? To be cruel to my enemies first I have to be cruel to my allies?"

Posted by: ace at April 01, 2011 05:44 PM (nj1bB)

No, but American support for Israel is based not only on geopolitical reasons. It is also based on our shared beliefs. Israel acts in war even more carefully than we do. Remove those shared beliefs and Israel becomes a less defensible friend and ally.

84 the option on the table is "hit what you can," which is the villages they have support in.

Mistaking AQ's partly coercively occupied rural-hideout network for their nervous system is also a Bush/NEOCONS!/etc. error.

The thing we've decided to call "Islamism" is a ruling-class ideology with ethnic-nationalist and "watch the world burn"-type underclass support that really would, like the "blowback!" idiots say, strengthen with misdirected attacks on it.

The ululating goatfuckers living in dust-holes aren't the problem. The "professionals, lawyers, doctors, people who appear to be credible" the US and UK have installed above them as both rulers and terrorist/rebel opposition (i.e., future rulers) are. Carpet-bombing Oxford and Harvard would stop more future terror attacks than glassing all of Afghanistan would.

You in it to win it?

85

I'm a believing and practicing Catholic convert. I chose it. I know what the Church says but I don't think they are looking at it right. They are looking at these criminal barbarians as if they weren't steeped in a satanic cult's sin and expecting us to behave as if we were ready to die at their hands as martyrs. If you adhere or understand the just war theory then you can certainly protect yourself and other innocents from carnage, rape, death, etc. How do you go about doing that? They have to be stopped, not appeased, not held back, not reeducated but stopped, period. I don't see how you stop a crazed freak bent on death without killing him and eradicating his nest. I pains me to say it.

86 And they should know there's no American Compassion looking out for their families back home, either.

Unfortunately, you know this is just wishcasting. The truth is that there is a tremendous amount of American Compassion looking out for their families and I'm not sure how you ever change that. If a balls out attack on NYC & DC didn't do it, what would it take?

87 You're talking sense ace.

I was on-board with a more subdued approach. Honestly, I think it was worth doing, even though it appears pretty certain now that these people are incapable of dragging themselves from the self-induced barbarism cultivated under millenia of competing tribal interests and magnified exponentially by a virulent death-cult of a religion.

We gave the compassionate side a go. We gave these people an opportunity to join us in the 21st century.

They have refused.

Hence krakatoa's rules for engaging in military action on foreign soil:

We knock the shit out of our enemy with extreme prejudice, only stopping at unconditional surrender. When they capitulate, we give them a constitution and enforce it.

Which isn't exactly a new rule [cough]japan[cough], but it certainly is a rule that has been proven effective.

If several decades of militarily enforcing a societal change is not acceptable, then we just continue knocking the shit out of these barbarians every time they achieve a technological level past spears & rocks.

It's brutal, but I just don't see how we have any justifiable rationale for spending our blood & resources attempting to reason with the clearly insane.

Yes, a lot of truly innocent people will die. Tough. Better those truly good innocent people die, than mine.

Given the trajectory of events this past decade, any other point of view is simply suicidal.

88

We are our own worst enemy going along with the pc crap that the leftists and apologist throw out there and it's probably too late to turn it around. I still think that the pig blood and bullet/bomb thing is a pretty good deterent. Cut off their path to heaven and the virgins and they'll think twice about martrying themselves.

 

89 I hope that's sarcastic.  Sacrificing a critical base and ally in a vain attempt to appease a mortal adversary is the exact opposite of 'smart'.

Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at April 01, 2011 05:45 PM (GBXon)

Of course it is. Half my family is in Israel.

90 #65 maddog: "Why are we strip searching Granny when we fucking know who the problem is?"

The 3 Muslims I know have asked exactly that question.  Except they didn't say "fucking".

Actually, I exaggerate.  One of the 3 said "I couldn't take it any more" after the Mumbai incident, and left the faith (he's from India).  So I guess it's only 2.

91 How about cordoning off the Islamic world from civilization as option 3? Sure, we can buy oil from Arabia, but we don't have to let their citizens enter our country. Same for the rest of them. No more student visas, lottery visas, whatever.

I'd cut off every dime of aid, too.  After decades of watching food aid rot in warehouses guarded by local warlords and financial aid spent on military hardware, I'm impervious to the pinko hippies' wails of "but, starving women and children!"  (They were going to spend that money on aborting those babies instead of feeding them anyway, hypocritical assholes.)

92 Do you neocons want to run down and bang one of the cows, or walk down and bang 'em all?  Instead of subjugate, how about subvert?

93 Stupid, the Muslims acted this way because they were upset that they knew we would retaliate if they acted this way, so we are at fault for essentially being ourselves and being willing to defend ourselves. All totalitarians hate the right to self defense.

94 79:  Sucker bet.  Though I'd counter-wager the result was a disaster.

If I had to choose, I'd take Sherman and Patton over Augustus and Aquinas, at least under these circumstances.

95 To win a war the enemy has to know it's beat. When the U.S. goes in all surgical-like, too few feel the threat of imminent death or pain. They'll never feel beat as a people. Granted, it's obviously not optimal to spread the pain indiscriminately, but when you do - or at least more than we have done recently due to weapons technology and professional personnel - the remaining population tends not to want to experience the war again. That is to say, they'll be less welcoming of those who waged holy war on the U.S. for fear of becoming the next collateral damage. The non-participant or the less radically involved (but philosophically cooperative) participant will get an expedited education on how to choose friends and enemies.

Long-term, 'tis better to be feared than loved.

96 Jones had to know what he was doing. He had to know that his actions could lead to a riot and blood shed...and he did it anyway. Yes, he had the right to burn the Koran, but it was a dumb thing to do...and the mullahs had to know when they called for protest over the burning that a massacre might come about..not just a peaceful protest, but they did it anyway.

Now we have a dozen dead people. And while I understand that people are tired of the mayhem and the ugliness of the region..I also know that the Taliban and AlQaida would like nothing better than to see us pack up and leave. After all, if we give up on these people, then they can get back to what they were doing before Bush went after the Taliban in the first place.

I am not making excuses for Muslims, I wish Mohammed had never been born. But we can not blame all of them for this...anymore than they should blame every American soldier for bad behavior of a few bad men.. But then again of course we as a nation will punish those young men. That is one of many things that makes us civilized.

I don't know. But I hate to do what I know AlQaida would love to see us do...give up and walk away. I would prefer to punish the people who did the deed.

97 81 I agree that they have bred themselves into insanity.

98 there was a Star Trek about this: A Taste of Armageddon

99 Maybe what we should do is conduct two simultaneous wars: a clean, humane one in public plus a covert dirty, no mercy, no rules one in private with plausible deniability. I can live with that.

Me like.  And we need to scrap the whole "we won't assassinate Heads of State" policy.  The Khomeinis and the Ahmedinejads need to be taught that there is a grave penalty for using terrorism as an instrument foreign policy. 

100

Publicly announce that if a any form of NBC weapon goes of in a western country then the first response will be to glass Mecca and Medina - It's in their best interest to ensure that the kooks don't get weapons then.

However if they really believe they're doing the will of Allah then surely he wouldn't let those cities disappear would he...

101 33

How about cordoning off the Islamic world from civilization as option 3? Sure, we can buy oil from Arabia, but we don't have to let their citizens enter our country. Same for the rest of them. No more student visas, lottery visas, whatever. And let other countries know that their Islamic citizens (ahem, France & Britain, e.g.) won't be let in either. And that means expelling those that are already here unless they have citizenship.

Yes.

102

Our values are anathema to each other, and they do not disdain violence when they have the advantage. So we face perpetual war or submission unless one side manages to convert the other. I'm not optimistic about that working, but it is worth a try. Unfortunatly the west doesn't believe itself in anyway superior. We have to convince them to renounce significant parts of Islam, not merely to be more tolerant.

Of course, the other problem is that the same can be said concerning conservative and liberal values, absent, happily for the moment, the violence.

103 They should fight for their lives to uncover and turn in Jihadis in their midst.

Posted by: Z Ryan at April 01, 2011 05:52 PM (tsC/8

HEY ARE FOLLOWING THE KORAN. Sorry for the shouting but jezz this is the internet age. Look it up, M kay>

104 Given that as part of their religion, muslims are required to make the pilgrimage to Mecca - would you support bombing Mecca and Medina? Not necessarily saying nuke them, but carpet bomb the hell out of each one.

Or just steal the moon rock from Mecca.  Every time something happens we don't like, it gets "humiliated" in some way, like a Jew touching it or someone heats it up with a heat gun and cooks bacon on it or whatever.

105

We tried it the Bush way. What has it gotten us? Nothing, except for a whole bunch of huge-ass debts and thousands of dead American soldiers. I give the man points for taking the high road, but enough is enough.

Islam stands alone as a religion that doesn't recognize the golden rule in some form or other. So, how do you deal with people who aren't morally or societally enjoined to treat others with compassion? Certainly not with compassion, because compassion to them is a sign of weakness. And it can't be reformed, because mad mo built mechanisms into it that make true reform impossible.

Sadly, the only way to "fix" islam is to eradicate it. As some evil jooo once said, if you show mercy to the cruel, you will ultimately bring cruelty to the merciful.

106 In the immortal words of the First lady in Mars attacks"Nuke the bastards."

107 That sort of thing is really only justifiable if we've just decided there's not enough room on the earth for both of us.

They already have.  It's hard-coded into their 'faith'.  I don't need anything more than how they've conducted themselves through history to decide that.

108 It doesn't matter what are military does as long as our civilian rulers are determined to apologize for Islamic extremism in our own backyards. We, along with the rest of the west, has been making excuses and exceptions for Islamic demands that we would never make for any other group. The values and rules we place on our military are just a reflection of our civilian society. When an extremist Muslim goes nuts on a military base in Texas and our president can't bring himself to call it exactly what it is then expecting extremists to fear our military is futile.

109 can I ask a difficult question? I'm not attempting to bait. I just think this is an interesting question. Should we vigorously promote and fund abortion in the Muslim world? Let's face it, part of the problem here is demographic -- all of these young, angry men with no real hope of a better life. Just a lot of rape and mayhem. It is true that crime declined in the 90s thanks to the "missing" people -- a lot of people who would have been criminals were, well, aborted. Now if we're talking about killing them anyway, why not really push abortion for them?

110 What would Sun-Tzu do?

111

But we can not blame all of them for this...anymore than they should blame every American soldier for bad behavior of a few bad men..

I have no problem blaming all of them for this. None. You're either an adherant to a medieval death cult's syphillic rantings or you're not.

112 We should just arrest that stupid bigot pastor for causing the riot and killing these innocent people by burning the Koran. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my latest piece of art, "bibleshit fuckjesus", where I wipe my ass with pages torn from a bible then fold the pages into little origami Jesus's in rude sexual positions, as a protest against how oppressive you Christianist rednecks are here in amerikkka.

113 like I said, not baiting -- I do think it's an interesting question though.

114 It's not an either/or choice. Swift and destructive justice is more humane in the long run than endless, drawn out attrition. How long have we been in Afghanistan--10 years? The problem with modern airpower is target dispersion. You saw it in Israel v. Hezbollah and you see it in Libya. Concentrating your people on the ground makes you a target. Tanks are targets, so the enemy flees to pickup trucks with machine guns, and still outgun the rebels. Think of Mao with cell phones and internet. So the enemy stays dispersed but coordinated with communications tech. That's modern war.

115 It's not a very *important* question, though -- it's not like this is a realistic policy goal or would ever work. But, while sort of moot, I think it's interesting. Kind of a "what do you really believe" sort of question.

116 We don't have leaders with the guts to do what has to be done.

At least the British dealt decisively with the Thugee cults. But they gave their balls away too.

117 Is abortion even allowed in the Muslim world?

118 They should fight for their lives to uncover and turn in Jihadis in their midst.

Posted by: Z Ryan at April 01, 2011 05:52 PM (tsC/8

HEY ARE FOLLOWING THE KORAN. Sorry for the shouting but jezz this is the internet age. Look it up, M kay>

Posted by: xyz at April 01, 2011 05:57 PM (la0MI)

What?

119 Ace: I believe several groups have debunked pretty much the entire first Freakanomics, including the abortion/crime thing.

120 Given their adherence to the religion, in my humble opinion that wouldn't fly.

121 I still can't figure out what a modern society should do in the face of a threat with a 7th century mindset that would gladly yield 21st century weapons to facilitate our total destruction.

In their mindset, kindness= weakness. In his compassion, I think that Bush has shown us to be weak to a certain extent. We need not to be weak. I do not mean Muslim genocide or anything like that; I mean we need to start acting forcefully. Which will never happen under Teh Won.

It is a complex situation. Over the years, Israel has used "restraint" and how has that turned out for them? It seems like they're getting bombed on a daily basis.

As much as I liked the idea of "bringing Democracy to the Middle East," it's not a plan. It will not work. We are projecting our values on a vastly different culture, a culture that, in the end, does not have the same Judeo Christian values.

122

Now if we're talking about killing them anyway, why not really push abortion for them?

It's against their medieval death cult rules. I'd rather kill the parents and save the innocent but genetically compromised child.

123 Ace, hell yes promote abortion and stir the shit up between Sunni and Shia. Arm both sides in each of these civil wars. Do all of it with the intent to destroy them. Best part, is they do it to themselves (with a little help).

124 >>>It's not an either/or choice. Swift and destructive justice is more humane in the long run than endless, drawn out attrition. How long have we been in Afghanistan--10 years? Yeah that's true too. I keep thinking about that. How our attempts to be merciful and low-impact actually just encourage more bloodshed. Patton thought like this, sort of, when he would lose a LOT of his soldiers in very tough, very aggressive attacks. His theory was you get the bloodshed out of the way early, break the enemy, send him retreating, and that AFTER THAT, it's relatively low-casualty for you. You know, sometimes high upfront casualties result in lower total casualties.

125

So they tie this current massacre to a specific event here in the US, but how many others have happened in the past year with no match setting them off? They are trying to shut us up through fear, that's what the Muslims have been succeeding at for the last 10 years.

I do not see why we must continue to be compassionate and measured in response to their threats and actions when they constantly prove to us that they will only be brutal and inhuman in return.

126 #118 "Is abortion even allowed in the Muslim world?"

Of course it is, silly.  They kill the mother.

127 Me tinks we should gear up for 9/11/2011 with burnable commemorative editions, printed on flash paper. Then declare war.

128

I am not making excuses for Muslims, I wish Mohammed had never been born. But we can not blame all of them for this...anymore than they should blame every American soldier for bad behavior of a few bad men..

So do you blame all the Nazis for murdering Jews, or just the ones that dropped the crystals into the vents?

Islam is a virulent, hateful ideology, just like Nazism.  That some muslims might not personally agitate for beheading infidels doesn't let them off the hook as far as I'm concerned.  Lots of committed Nazis kept up the landscaping and raised polite kids.

When I see a groundswell of public revulsion by the mass of "moderate muslims," then I'll rethink whether I should blame all muslims for their barbaric co-religionists.   Until then, they're all evil adherents to an evil cause in my book.

129

Or just steal the moon rock from Mecca.  Every time something happens we don't like, it gets "humiliated" in some way, like a Jew touching it or someone heats it up with a heat gun and cooks bacon on it or whatever.

Awesome and funny. It's a GO!

130 stir the shit up between Sunni and Shia. Arm both sides in each of these civil wars. Do all of it with the intent to destroy them. Best part, is they do it to themselves (with a little help).

This, IMHO would be the most "compassionate" way to deal with the situation.

Stir the pot and then watch the fireworks.

Remember- the greatest killer of Muslims is other Muslims.

131 >>>Ace: I believe several groups have debunked pretty much the entire first Freakanomics, including the abortion/crime thing. I think those debunkers have been debunked.

132 i like dick.

133 >>>Given their adherence to the religion, in my humble opinion that wouldn't fly. I know. I don't think it is a practical or realistic plan. I just think it's an interesting tectonic-border sort of question.

134 Should we vigorously promote and fund abortion in the Muslim world?

Might be an ineffective strategy, unless women in the ME started having underground abortions en masse.  Demographics is a key weapon in the Islamist's arsenal.  To boot:

From: Fallaci issues a wake-up call to Europe.

In 1974, former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne said in a speech at the U.N.: "One day millions of men will leave the southern hemisphere to go to the northern hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory." In other words, says Fallaci, what Islamic armies have not been able to do with force in more than 1,000 years can be achieved in less than a century through high birth rates. She cites as evidence a 1975 meeting of Islamic countries in Lahore, in which they announced their project to transform the flow of Muslim immigrants in Europe in "demographic preponderance."

The "sons of Allah," as Fallaci calls them, do not make a secret of their plans. A Catholic bishop recounted that, during an interfaith meeting in Turkey, a respected Muslim cleric told the crowd: "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you."

135 I find it interesting that these people didn't riot over the death by the "killing soldiers" only the media did.

What are they mad about? A guy in a state they never heard of burning a book?

Something smells in all of this.

136

Another problem is the naive belief that people want liberty. Deep down, everyone just wants to be left alone to raise their children and goats and drink Coke, etc.

Most people don't want freedom for themselves, and very few care about it for their neighbors. People would rather have security for themselves, and cultural values imposed onto their neighbors than freedom for all--even many of the oppressed would rather be apart of the ruling party than see freedom.

And yes, many examples exist in western life.

137 Or just steal the moon rock from Mecca.  Every time something happens we don't like, it gets "humiliated" in some way, like a Jew touching it or someone heats it up with a heat gun and cooks bacon on it or whatever.

LOL. BRILLIANT!!!

138 Are we sure that Stetson Army hat isn't an April Fool's joke?

I am a firm believer in collateral damage...not on purpose, but also not unduly worrying about it.

I'm vicious, though; I'd be compiling a database with all these jihadis in it, and every time I caught one, I'd bomb the hell out of their village or hut or tent or goat encampment or whatever.

139 Start some sort of rumor or conspiratorial statements that makes China "Great Satan" v. 2.0...those turds fall for damn near anything, so give it a shot!  Get them thinking that Kung Pao really means "allah sux", or that Korans are burned by the thousands to heat pig farms...

140 My suggestion - Constitutional amendment stressing that Islam is not eligible for any Constitutional protections.

141 An old acquaintance of Greek origin tolf me that has a young lad, he and his Greek friends had to kick the shit out of the Middle-Eastern kids once a week, otherwise they would continue to grow bolder.

They do not respect compassion and mercy.  They respect power and those willing to use it.  And make no mistake, this attitude pre-dates Islam.  All the Koran did was bring a secular attitude into a religion.

142 35

Someone linked to an anagram maker in the previous thread.

My whole name including middle turns into HUM! LUCRATIVE AROMATIC

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at April 01, 2011 05:39 PM (c5RQr)

Heh, just tried my full name. Got: DAMN! FINE, ACCURSED JERK

Nailed it

143

Let's face it folks.  We don't have the money for luxury anymore.  And, without a draft, we'll never have the manpower to control the muslim horde.  The day will come, if we're attacked again, that we'll have no choice but to use nukes.

I had an idea for the next president, if he/she's anywhere close to conservative.  Call a private ME conference of all the leaders and tell them point blank that if the US is attacked again, we'll drop nukes on Mecca and Medina.  If there's any retaliation of any kind after that than we'll start, using conventional weapons (including massive carpet bombing) to start taking out all of islam's sacred sites, mosques, and cities.

Yeah, I'm in agreement with some of you about Bush.  I was sorely disappointed he didn't declare a national war mobilization like WWII.

144 I am not making excuses for Muslims, I wish Mohammed had never been born. But we can not blame all of them for this

Yes, I can and do. Blame every last one of them. They are a scourge. A cancer that should be eradicated. And until someone can point out a concrete example of the mythical 'moderate Muslim', a Muslim denouncing the violence, the jihad, one who acknowledges that Islam is murderous cult than I shall not change my opinion.

Among the civilized there is a tendency, a real desire, to believe in basic human decency. We cannot continue to fool ourselves into believing that such basic decency exists in these barbarians.

145 For every terrorist attack we destroy x amount of Mosques and take land, keep it till we arrive in Mecca.

146 It's a two front war. Although thanks to Western society's fifth column, both fronts are taking place here and there.

147 Jones had to know what he was doing. He had to know that his actions could lead to a riot and blood shed...and he did it anyway.


This is not about Jones. 

Check out some of the seventeen thousand Muslim terror attacks that took place before this Koran thing.

148 Almost spooky to read your post Ace. I went through almost the same transition. Initially after the successful invasion of Iraq I just wanted to see us take some oil to help pay for it and let the Iraqis blow each other away until they sorted things out. Over time, I came to accept that Bush was appealing to our higher virtues, and I decided to back that approach. But as time and expense of all types continues to mount I am drifting back into a 'pulverize and return as needed to drain the swamp' approach. All that money and all those lives we have sacrificed to try to do the right thing just don't seem to be paying off -- for anyone.

149 My boss' name anagramed into DEAR STRANGLER...which pretty much suits him

150 Instead of carpet-bombing their cities, we invite ever-increasing # of Muslim students and immigrants to move here. Hell, you get affirmative action as an official "minority" if you check off the muslim box.

Why do we give special bennies to followers of the false prophet child rapist Muhammad?

Iran's nuclear facilities should be smoking holes in the ground -- as should have Pakistan's. We should routinely assassinate any Iranian nuclear scientists. Pretty much anybody in the muslim world that masters differential equations should probably be taken out just as a precautionary measure.

As long as they just stick to autisticly memorizing the Koran then I don't care that much. We can live with their evil pedophile, butt-raping, jihadi murder cult since their massacres are only a few people at a time.

It's when they start studying advanced nuclear physics and genetic engineering that I start thinking a little pre-emptive ethnic cleansing is in order.

What do we do when some jihadi learns how to craft a new smallpox that only will infect those of northern european descent? Or east asian

151 Should we vigorously promote and fund abortion in the Muslim world?

That's a fucking great idea!

152 Born-Again Christian


I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.  Just saying.

Also, I don't think GWB's decisions regarding Afghanistan or Iraq had anything to do with his Christianity.  He was simply cowed by the war of information waged by the the bought and paid-for MFM and probably didn't think he could sell certain things--like nuking jihadis--to the public because of that entity.  He gave up in that particular war without a fight.

153

"Crazed Nun Up Satan" including the middle name. My usual name and last gets me "Unzip Stud".

Both are the awesome.

154 It is true that crime declined in the 90s thanks to the "missing" people -- a lot of people who would have been criminals were, well, aborted.


That conjecture is unprovable.  You could just as easily say we'll never cure cancer, because the scientists with the gifts to do so were aborted.

155 I don't see how you stop a crazed freak bent on death without killing him and eradicating his nest. I pains me to say it.

Posted by: dagny at April 01, 2011 05:54 PM (k52O3)

This!

156 For every terrorist attack we destroy x amount of Mosques and take land, keep it till we arrive in Mecca.

Cut, jib, newsletter. You and me and Ann Coulter could solve this problem rather quickly.

157 The important thing is that the comments don't devolve into something insensitive or hateful. Brb. I feel the urge to punch a kitten.

158

And until someone can point out a concrete example of the mythical 'moderate Muslim', a Muslim denouncing the violence, the jihad, one who acknowledges that Islam is murderous cult than I shall not change my opinion.

Right. And that makes them not muslim so the point is moot. I blame them all.

159 BTW, I seem to remember a hue and cry some years ago about even mentioning using nu-ku-lar weapons on Jihad Central, i.e. Mecca.  I think some of that hue and cry occurred at this very site....

160 I wanted option 2 after 9-11.

I still do

But I fear America has been too pussyfied to do it-- not even if we are the ones nuked first.

We just don't have the iron in enough Americans, anymore.

161 Ace,

It is entirely possible to conduct unrestricted warfare against Militant Islam. The goals of that war can be the complete dismantling of the 7th century mindset that makes them do what they do. I would support that war. But it can be done with what you have described as "compassion and mercy." It need not be done with 7th century morality and respect for life. And that doesn't mean that those asshole human-rights lawyers get to decide who gets shot in each firefight. Collateral damage is a reality of war and should be minimized when possible, but not at the expense of the larger goals or American lives.

I watched the World Trade Center burn. My wife cried over lost friends. We went to memorial services. I understand all too well the desire to fight this war the way we have been attacked. But we don't have to. And not because their lives are worth anything; but because we are worth much, much more than they are!

162  Love that anagram maker!

First and last married name:  SCUMMY THREATS 

Full maiden name:  ACT MANLY MAN NYMPH

163 Is this an April Fools joke just to get the pro-nuke mecca crowd to out themselves?

164 Don't worry Ace, as we become a poorer nation, we will not be able to afford our current level of compassion. Acting as we do is a sign of a wealthy nation. Except in all reality we are not. Sooner or later that will filter into our responses to terror. They will be short, but brutal and harsh. It will be cheaper and all we can afford to do. Quite frankly I'd rather put fear into the hearts of our enemies rather than wasting our time trying teach them Lockean values that predispose a just God. That's a waste of time against a religion whose God is vindicative and whose holy book is written in stone, forever.

165

Imagine the libtard howling. Them yelling, "They are just like us!"

They probably have a point. They are just like death loving disgusting liberty hating libtards. They see themselves in the mirror and LIKE IT.

166

What's MOST infuriating to me is that this isn't a Nazi Germany / Japan axis we're losing to but a bunch of 7th century barbarians that can barely master the art of road building, are easily pissed off and don't seem to show a lot of strategic brilliance fighting as a group.

If Western Civ, seriously, SERIOUSLY, got pissed off enought at these barbarians to wipe them out, even with the oil disruptions, etc, how long do you think it would take?

I'm looking forward to DOOM world simply because after the needed economic correction and the destruction of the welfare state, I also think the gloves come off. I'll pay to watch the Muslims hold a demonstration in Europe, for whatever reason, a year after the Euro collapses and austerity is in full force.

167 Yes but it was a peaceful massacre.

168 These bastards are protected by American politics, nothing more.  Eventually, they will make a major change in American politics.

169

168 My sons as small children and teenagers (still prob) were the nuke mecca fans. They love to say to a liberal teacher--Bomb the Kabob. Teacher sputters and then first tries to explain that it's not "Kabob"---every   single    time. Funny as hell.

 

170 I still like the whole sterilize-their-water-supply idea.
The problem with Islam is there are just so many of the fuckers and they breed like cockroaches. And we spend our excess money on charity to feed their families of 8,9,10 kids that they can't afford to have.

171

Afghanistan delenda est....or...'make them fear the chamber of Mazarbul'...or something like that...

Bottom line - go Roman on the motherfuckers.

172

Nukes are the answer, but not the types discussed above. Through true energy independence, we can throttle these bastards economically.  Increased use of Nuclear power is one way to see this through.

 

173 You know that Iraq and Afghanistan both have experienced population booms during our decade long occupation? That there is watch you call a true fact.

174 I recently purchased The Third Jihad (it was bundled with Iranium), a documentary about radical Islam narrated by Dr. Zuhdi Jasser.  It is a pretty honest documentary, as he mentioned that are many Muslims here in the US that supported the 9/11 attacks and support terrorism (i.e. refuse to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah and even subtly give them money). He talked about Jihad and now the radicals are using the media along with other under-the-radar methods to recruit other radicals and undermine America in the process.

Here's the rub.  While it may be true that only a small portion of the 1.3 billion Muslims are "radical", a) The radical portion is still too high and b) too many of the "non-radicals" would still love to see the world in some state of Shariah, so while they don't support the means, they definitely support the ends.    

175 Sorry Spuds McKenzie was Canadian Infidel

176 Rome didn't have further trouble with Carthage. Where was Carthage? It was in northern africa. I wonder if Carthage had survived if it would have allowed africa to become death cult fanatics?

177 I think it an irony of our modern world that the more civilized we try to  make war, the less painful we try to make it, the more likely we are to keep having to wage it. War should be hell, as Sherman called it, and the more hellish it is the more likely people will try to avoid it.

178 The entire rest of the world would have to go nuclear power too. I'm not too hot on some of them have nuclear reactors. If the nice smart japanese can't do it, you think the bolivians or the vietnamese can?

179

Is all this bummer talk part of an April Fool's joke?

Not that I'm an optimist...

180 114 like I said, not baiting -- I do think it's an interesting question though.

Posted by: ace at April 01, 2011 06:01 PM (nj1bB)

They would never accept abortion. Islamic Women are for procreating the armies of allah.

That is the be all and end all of a woman's existence in Islam. Abortion works when you appeal to the selfishness- less kids= more for me= Career, money, future, lowered carbon footprints.   They don't have anything to begin with, no career, money, future, so having fewer or no children gets them nowhere, except perhaps a ticket to be the next recruit in the suicide bomber brigades.

181

40 My problem with your approach, Ace, is: who do you bomb?  Where do you start, where do you stop?  How does one put your policy into practice in the real world?

Islam has a hell of a lot of "holiest sites in all Islam". Could stand to lose a few if they start getting uppity, and by uppity I mean killing folks.

Would never happen, though. We all know proggressives love foreign cultural sites more than people.

182 Some ideas to help destroy, or at least contain, Islam:

1) Convert Africa to Christianity.  There are still large populations in Africa that are neither Christian or Muslim. They are eventually going to be one or the other. I'm not religious, but I know which side I want to win.

If nothing else we know that a large % of our future immigrants will be African -- because that's who's making babies. Better we import future indigent African Christians than future murderous African muslims.

2) Mainstream Islamic blasphemy.

They got to get used to people mocking Muhammad and mocking Allah and mocking Islam. Christians got used to it, it can be done.

Desensitization therapy works. The first time a muslim reads - Muhammad was a false prophet, camel-fucking dipshit who butt-raped little boys -- they will freak out. The 20th time less so. The 200th time even less.

Mainstreaming of Islamic blasphemy is especially important in America and Europe.

183

Civilization cannot defend itself against barbarism solely on its own terms.

We used to understand that.  We better remember it or we're toast.

 

How was WWII won?  Brute force.  There were clear losers and winners. 

The barbarians will not be going away peacefully.  They will keep killing us until we are all dead.  Look at how the barbarians kill the jews in Israel, with bombs, with rocks, with knives, with any weapon at all. 

If they get a nuke, they will use it.  At some point civilization will have to decide if it wants to live and destroy the barbarians, or if it would rather let the barbarians live and destroy civilization. 

184 Islam isn't a religion, and nobody will ever convince me of anything different. Until the west comes to the same conclusion we are fucked.

185 You can achieve a lot with pink underwear.

186   I think it an irony of our modern world that the more civilized we try to  make war, the less painful we try to make it, the more likely we are to keep having to wage it       It is well that war is so terrible. We should grow too fond of it.

Robert E. Lee

187 "These bastards are protected by American politics, nothing more. Eventually, they will make a major change in American politics." Right on. The most dangerous enemy is the enemy within.

188 Or just steal the moon rock from Mecca. Every time something happens we don't like, it gets "humiliated" in some way, like a Jew touching it or someone heats it up with a heat gun and cooks bacon on it or whatever. OUTSTANDING! LOL I love it credit Ian S @ 105

189 Pastor Terry Jones tells ABC: Afghan U.N. Violence 'Proves' My Point

http://tinyurl.com/3bwqt7g "We wanted to raise awareness of this dangerous religion and dangerous element," pastor Terry Jones said of the Koran burning. "I think [today's attack] proves that there is a radical element of Islam."

190

As a born again Christian, an even an evangelical holiness Christian, I have reached the point where I feel you have described the lawlessness in the Mid East correctly as a cult of death.  I am tempted to put 'scare' quotes around the word people, but that would seem to reduce them to something less than human, and I don't think that this is true.  They are, however, lawless monsters, getting their hatred and contempt from the local madressa where they are constantly taught to kill or subjucate anyone who is not like them, and even that Christians, Jews, and anyone else are fair game for murder and destruction.

So, there comes a time when restraint is seen as weakness and an acceptance of muslim dominance.  IMHO, it is time to adopt the Roman way of dealing with terrorists:  If you kill one of us, we will kill 10 of yours.  I think that this would slow them down somewhat in their killing.  Sorry about the loss of life of innocents, but the muslims themselves say there are no innocents in this world.

191
Keep in mind the Classic Blunders.

192 ""Anyone thinking that even the complete destruction of Israel would do anything to quench the expansionist thirst of Islamism hasn't been paying attention. They go until they're stopped. By force or fear of force. Every single time. Everywhere on earth.""


This. They will not stop until they are extinct.

193 Pull the hell out of the middle east.  Let these 6th century islamic whack jobs kill each other all day long.  Fuck it, at this point I don't care if they chop off 10, 000 heads a day.  They hate us, no matter what we do.  Chop, stone, slash, stab, and shoot each other until your heart's content, but stay the fuck out of our neighborhoods.  Carpet bomb if they get cute with us.

194

His theory was you get the bloodshed out of the way early, break the enemy, send him retreating, and that AFTER THAT, it's relatively low-casualty for you.

Realistically, with the overwhelming amount of "smart weapons" we have in the Western arsenal (and the people who are trained to know how to use it), almost all of the bloodshed would be on "their" side.  Let's face it, we still have a relatively low mortality rate on the US side.

But we're not going to change minds over there - the people who aren't in charge are uneducated and have been conditioned to think like battered women.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Bush was so angry after 9/11 that taking out Mecca and Medina was something he was seriously considering doing.  It might have changed things quite a bit.

Personally, I'm all for us carpetbombing Mecca, Medina, and all of their mosques with as much bacon grease, pork rinds, and pigs' feet as we can find.

When the men start praying in the streets, do the same thing.  Make them all as "unclean" as possible.  Instead of pat-downs at airports, require people to eat a piece of bacon before going through security; takes care of terrorists and vegans at the same time.....

195 I'm halfway to Ace's solution. I see this as a very simple problem. One that Bush started off dealing with in the right way: Any person, city, state, or nation that in in any way, intentionally or unintentionally, involved with anyone who has or attempted to do harm to an American citizen or presents a clear and present danger to the United States or our interests is an enemy. And that enemy will be dealt with swiftly, effectively, and in such a way as to neutralize any potential threat. Unfortunately, Bush got hamstrung by our ridiculous politics, our short memories, and his own conscience. I say enough is enough. I have no interest in nation building, righting the wrongs of the world, or who is offended by what. These bastards committed and act of war against us, we gave them the opportunity to hand over those responsible, ut they didn't. We should have leveled the entire place without regard to anyone else. I think conventional weapons would have been fine, were we not hamstrung or concerned with what happens to them afterward. We need to go back to the ways of our founders. We are a sovereign nation, answerable to no one. We can be entirely self sufficient, if we wanted to be. We will do business with those who understand that business is a transaction where equal value is exchanged and there are no favors. If people wish to be charitable, it's to the individual. Our government has no authority to be charitable on our behalf. If you disagree with us, that is your right. Don't interfere. If you get between us and those who wish to do us harm, then you fall in the cross hairs too.

196 I actually think the Koran burnings are a good move. They can't freak out forever. The Everybody Draw Muhammad day was a great idea. Of course the chick who started it had to back down and go into hiding because we can't even guarantee her safety here in America.

btw -- I drew a picture of Muhammad on my left nut, it's my best nut.

197 "How was WWII won? Brute force. There were clear losers and winners." No shit. How do we keep getting stuck trying to implement a new Marshall Plan before anyone surrenders?

198 The muzzies would just bomb the abortion clinics.

Same effect, in the end, I guess.

199 Ace, can you spell out what you're proposing?

200

Our biggest mistake in the Iraq war was that we stayed after we captured Saddam. Both Iraq and Afghanistan have the attitude of "it's a whole lot better for American soldiers to die than to hurt a hangnail on a muslim."  These governments complain and complain and we give them more and more concessions ...and money.  We put our soldiers at risk to keep the muslims sweet.  In Iraq, we got rid of Saddam, freed 25 milion people, rebuilt the damn place and lost over 4,000 of our soldiers and marines.  The Iraqi  answer to all this.  Thanks a lot,  Charlie, now get out of our country but leave all your armamentss here...and oh, yeah, send us some more money.

After we got rid of the menace to the world, we should have let them sink or swim on their own.  And if another menace just as bad grew, then we could go in again without "boots on the ground" and risk to our soldiers and do it all over again. It would have been cheaper and without collateral damage to us.  We didn't even get any oil contracts out of this.  China did.  Way to go, Washington!!!

And on top of all that, they kill anyone who changes to Christianity.  Never mind, their saviors are Christian.  And our female soldiers have to wear head scarves so as not to offend these ingrates.  Understand, it's their way or the highway and they know they can get away with all this stuff because the US government is full of wimps.  No one fears us any more.  They know we will leave our allies in the lurch if it suits our politicians.  They know we will back down so as to make te rest of the world "like" us. I don't care if they "like" us.  I would rather they fear us and respect us.

201 Ace, a better option would be to convince the men that having a vasectomy would make their junk longer and give them "super children".

202 Just remember one thing before you start wetting your britches. AoS threads have been responsible for 0 deaths and injuries to muslims. So relax; we're just talking, here.

203 Once a month i have a great idea. We start a charity sort of. A private border and overseas Tea Party Foreign League. By pass the American Socialist and deluxe protection for conservative cargo coming in and about.

204 btw, re: "pastor" Terry Jones Muslims beheaded people supposedly because this guy burned a Koran. Jones said he burned the book because it represents evil. The Muslims in Afghanistan proved his point.

205 Is this an April Fools joke just to get the pro-nuke mecca crowd to out themselves?

Meh. 4/1 is as good a day to nuke Mecca as any. Okay, 2/29, maybe. Not that they even use our calendar.

206 208 Ace, a better option would be to convince the men that having a vasectomy would make their junk longer and give them "super children".

How about convincing the men that heterosexual sex was invented by the Jews and that it's evil, so it must be avoided at all cost? That might solve some problems as well.

207 dammit, conscious! I wanted to make that comment for over two hours and you and ABC ruined it for me.

208 Nukes aren't the answer. Mulsims are have a tribal/sect mindset. Nukes would only bind the survivors together unless you left very few in the whole world.

War, as a form of punishment which is what it is, is rightly reserved to God in the Christian religion for the most part. If we are going to take it upon ourselves, or are forced to by attack, to take on a role reserved to God it should be prosecuted the way God would. Once God decided someone was worthy of punishment I don't remember a lot of mercy on his part. Mercy was reserved for those who sought it and you don't seek mercy with defiance and a blade. There is no compassionate Christian way to prosecute a war. The Christian way is how to avoid war. If you have already determined you can't avoid war it makes little sense to attempt to be Christian about it.

If  someone from a Muslim tribe makes war on us we should make war on them without mercy until such time as they seek our mercy. And by seek mercy I mean total compliance to our demands and a submissive attitude from every member of the tribe. Those that don't seek it won't get it, civilian or not.

Once we have obtained their submission the tribal mindset needs to be broken through a long occupation process and teaching like Germany and Japan. They don't need to become Christians but they must be made to accept completely that they will live by Christian ideals as represented by western civilization.

In the end someone is going to submit. We should not hesitate to insure it's not us.

209 TURN THOSE TRIBAL 14th CENTURY SAVAGES INTO GLASS!

210 205 The muzzies would just bomb the abortion clinics.


If the Moose-limbs did that here, then finally the left would take notice.

211 I know you'll need me...it's inevitable.  Until that time, I will wait. 

212 214
dammit, conscious! I wanted to make that comment for over two hours and you and ABC ruined it for me.

Posted by: soothsayer in spades at April 01, 2011 06:43 PM (Wzli+)

I like your comment. "Evil" is exactly the word to describe their cult.

213

I actually think the Koran burnings are a good move.

If it's already on fire... surely nobody would care if I pissed on it, now?

214 Had to stop by again.  I think I like the idea of baconizing mecca and medina.  Drop gallons and gallons of bacon grease from a plane passing overhead.  Let them try to get every drop up.  It could even be done by one person with a crop duster and bacon grease.  No conspiracy needed.

215 There is one fairly low casualty, but brutal, way of dealing with the jihadis.  Kill their family. End their bloodline. The muzzie mom celebrating her jihadi son's death does so because she has 5 more sons.

If we made it known that, if you go jihadi on us, then we'll remove your entire family from the gene pool .. it would end fairly quickly.  Each muslim family would have to police their own. They won't ignore their jihadi brother or nephew.

That strategy wouldn't require eventually nuking mecca. And the actual death toll would be pretty small.

But like all these ideas, we won't act this way until after some horrible, horrible tragedy. Like an American city gets nuked type tragedy. Obviously 9/11 isn't enough to get us to take off the gloves. So our death toll will have to be in tends of thousands or hundreds of thousands before we get serious.

The earlier we go brutal the more lives saved in the long run.

216 Take out Mecca and Medina.  Not nuke them, but a Daisy Cutter or one of those MOAB's.

217 I'm sure before/during the civil war and other conflicts their were private armies navies and the such. The Tea Party Armed Forces. Why am i getting an erection?

218 Maybe I'm part barbarian, but I have no qualms about burning the ME and erasing it from the face of the earth to the point that in 1000 years archaeologists will  wonder if it's existence was a fucking myth.

219 If we are going to protect civilians against their own government, I vote that we at least choose the Christians to protect.  And not just because I hate muslims, but because the US always ends up with tons of refugees after these little incursions, and I'm sick of all the refugees being muslims.

220 Kill their family.

Worked for us.

221

 Nukes aren't the answer. Mulsims are have a tribal/sect mindset. Nukes would only bind the survivors together unless you left very few in the whole world.

 

Works for me.

222 AoSHQ: Come for the savagery and terror; stay for the savagery and terror.

When I first stumbled upon AoSHQ, the first thing I saw was a quote about spitting upon hands, hoisting the black flag, and slitting throats.  And then I thought, "well this is a place I could enjoy for a while."

Then, I had read some long-winded mealy-mouthed posts about various topics that gave me pause.  Well, welcome back.

If the ultimate outcome we will have with this murderous cult hell bent on no peace without worldwide islamic domination is that we have all out war, then I say let's get on with it.

Listen, and understand! That Terminator islamic murder-cult is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Why kick the can down the road any longer for our children to have to deal with?  Same applies with this debt business.  This is America for F's sake! Not some highfalutin women's bridge club where we sit around and cackle to ourselves about news of the day and don't do nothing about it. 

I am tired of pussyfooting around here.  Kudos to Rand Paul today for jamming his thumb in Obrother's eye over his failure to consult Congress before entering American forces into Libya.  That extra-constitutional crap has got to stop.

NB:  Apologies if this sock puppet is already taken.  I will put it back where I found it.

223

Admiral William F. Halsey, upon entering Pearl Harbor with his task force the evening of the Japanese attack said "after we are done, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell'. That was back in the days when our men were still men.

Ever since 9-11 I've been thinking of Admiral Halsey a lot.

224 This post is so typical of racist right-winger websites.

You never cover any of the stories of Christians going on murder sprees after "Piss Christ" art exhibits.

225 The Tea Party Armed Forces is more of a reality than coveting 40% of American thinking in Time.

226 222 There is one fairly low casualty, but brutal, way of dealing with the jihadis.  Kill their family. End their bloodline.



That was my thought post 9/11.  Particularly when the families of the hijackers denied their children's responsibility--or, worse, blamed Israel.

227  Take out Mecca and Medina.  Not nuke them, but a Daisy Cutter or one of those MOAB's.

Posted by: EC at April 01, 2011 06:48 PM (f4TZ2)

 

Nah.  Nuke 'em.  And use the nastiest kind of nuke we have in our arsenal.  Make the very ground of Mecca uninhabitable for a thousand years.

228

We can engage in Internet fantasy all day long, but let's face it- carpet bombing villiages that harbor terrorists, using nukes, bombing Mecca- short of WWIII, it ain't going to happen.

If a Jihadi who was "radicalized" in a Virginia or Franfurt, Germany mosque launches an attack, who do we bomb?

All I can think of is to isolate countries like Pakistan as best we can.  No more visas to or from Pakistan, Niger, Yemen, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, etc.  No unappreciated aid, no more protecting them from themselves.

We shouldn't even try to stop them from forming an Islamist government.  Countries like these are going to produce terrorists anyways, let their government own them so we have a target when they attack.

229 We can either kill them, convert them, imprison them, or appease them. We already know that appeasement does not work. Imprisoning them is way too costly. Converting them will never work. (Lobotomizing and neutering them has potential, though). That leaves us one viable option.

230 223 Take out Mecca and Medina.  Not nuke them, but a Daisy Cutter or one of those MOAB's.

Posted by: EC at April 01, 2011 06:48 PM (f4TZ2)

The Air Force could be reimbursed for the cost of the MOAB using the internet to sell a space on it where you could put your name and send a little greeting. They could charge by the word. A simple "Greeting from John Smith, Bombsville, Ohio" would cost $100. 

231 whatever happened to the neutron bomb?

232 coveting,,, i meant converting

233 ""If a Jihadi who was "radicalized" in a Virginia or Franfurt, Germany mosque launches an attack, who do we bomb?""


He comes home and finds the severed heads of his family in the fridge.

Next?

234 The Three Conjectures.

It does seem inevitable. I think Koran burning and Muhammad pedo-jokes might be all that could save us from that end. Either Islam lightens-the-fuck up or we're gonna have to nuke 'em.

I think the crazy pastor is doing the world a service by burning the Koran. I think we have to keep provoking them until they lighten-the-fuck up.

Desensitization therapy works. Even on those camel-fucking, moon-god worshipping, sodomy-loving Mohammedans.

235 All I can think of is to isolate countries like Pakistan as best we can.  No more visas to or from Pakistan,



But will Barry do during his oh-so-long post-presidency?

236 241 - Jezeem I am sick. That actually had me laughing out loud just for the shock value ... I guess.

237 231 This post is so typical of racist right-winger websites.

Posted by: Johnny at April 01, 2011 06:51 PM (mhmc7)

I was actively looking for websites like that after 9/11. Well anti-Islam sites. That's when I found LittleGreenFootballs.

238 Hmmm...

For a fairly exhaustive takedown of this topic, Wretchard over at the Belmont Club dissected it in gory detail.  Problem is, I can't find the exact link since his workup of the subject was not very long after 9/11, around about the time it was becoming apparent that the US polity was splitting into the "go fight 'em" and "war is wrong no matter what" groups...

239 >>>...Bush was so angry after 9/11 that taking out Mecca and Medina was something he was seriously considering... My how things have changed since 2001. Instead of obliterating the savages we're allowing them to build an enormous mosque at the site of their biggest single act of terrorism.

240 Or just steal the moon rock from Mecca.  Every time something happens we don't like, it gets "humiliated" in some way, like a Jew touching it or someone heats it up with a heat gun and cooks bacon on it or whatever.

Posted by: Ian S. at April 01, 2011 05:57 PM

Cut jib newsletter?

241 Crap, I have to type faster.  Clubber Lang nailed it.

It was Wretchard's Three Conjectures...

242 Yeah, thanks a lot assholes!  I *had* the problem under control.

Stupid heads!

243 Maybe we should just adopt Koran-burning as our new national pastime.

244

If we are going to protect civilians against their own government, I vote that we at least choose the Christians to protect.  And not just because I hate muslims, but because the US always ends up with tons of refugees after these little incursions, and I'm sick of all the refugees being muslims.

I feel bad for them, but let's face it- if they're willingly living in an overwhelmingly Muslim country as a Christian, they shouldn't be surprised when their Muslim countrymen behave like Muslims.

245 ""241 - Jezeem I am sick. That actually had me laughing out loud just for the shock value ... I guess.""


I really wasn't kidding. These fuckers need to see real hell on earth. I bet if half the people here were running the GWOT, it would be over in 6 months.

246 If you guys don't like The Tea Party Armed Forces, i'm taking my carrier and going home.

247

We can engage in Internet fantasy all day long, but let's face it- carpet bombing villiages that harbor terrorists, using nukes, bombing Mecca- short of WWIII, it ain't going to happen.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at April 01, 2011 06:53 PM (SY2Kh)

Not with that kind of thinking.... Considering how we bend forward for these barbarians, those close to me don't even look at me funny anymore when I tell them I can't wait until WW3. Well at least until we decide to actively participate.

248 Again, why can't we develop a weapon that explodes in the shape of the middle east?  We have freakin' fireworks that can spell out U-S-A.  It shouldn't be that hard.

249

@11: "They don't seem to realize we have other options."

Oh, they realize it, they're just betting we won't ever exercise them.  Good bet, too.  If we didn't go all wrath-of-God after 9/11 (and the Russians didn't after Beslan), it's pretty much a certainty that we (the West + Russia) never will.

250 What we need to do is elect honey badgers.

251 I understand the rage about all this, honestly.  I may give voice to it myself.  But I'm still rather concerned about how the lesser-evolved teabaggers that infest this site are going to express it because they're certain to do so without any nuance.

252 Here's an idea to deal with all the people within our boarders who don't like American policies: LEAVE! You want free healthcare, shitty little cars that don't serve their purpose as reliable transportation, a government union job that pay 1000 times more than you're worth and that you cant get fired from, and to live in a more European way? Fine. Your citizenship is revoked and there is a boat leaving for Europe tomorrow. Get your useless, hippie ass outta here. Go somewhere else and let them support you. Once youre gone, you're welcome to hate America and burn all the flags that you want to. If you don't like Europe, we'll send you to hang out with your protesting buddies in the Mid East where you can dance around with your signs to your hearts content. So long as you don't threaten or attack us, we don't care. If you fuck with us, don't expect and aid, bribes, or negitiations. We will aim for your smelly, vegan ass with our new patchouli- seeking bombs.

253

 

whatever happened to the neutron bomb?

 

The neutron bomb was design for use against heavy concentrations of  Russian armor and hardend targets.,so it was more of a tactical nuke rather than a strategic one

254 12 -> 8 -> 7 Next thing you know, five babies were born.

255 116 It's not a very *important* question, though -- it's not like this is a realistic policy goal or would ever work.

But, while sort of moot, I think it's interesting.

Kind of a "what do you really believe" sort of question. I like my idea better. When you find someone culpable of a terrorist attack (or rioting murderous mob) invade their village, take the children, and give them to Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. to raise. No all that practical, but just painful.

256

As bad as the dark ages mentality of these muslims is, they do not pose an existential threat to America. Not really. They can hurt us and they can hurt us badly - maybe even have the ability to take out one of our cities (Berkeley would be my choice) but that's all.

The real existential threat to this country is the liberal, collectivist, leftard mindset that has infected us for decades and has reduced us to a bunch of hand-wringing, impotent whiners. Taking out the enemy in our midst - the Left - that is the first order of business. After we've done that, and only after, can we get to work settling the Muslim's hash for them.

257 Before Bush bombed Iraq he should have put border security at the highest priority.  He knew we were at war.  He knew who are enemy was/is.  Yet, while we bombed them 'there' he let them come in 'here'.

If he would have been a little smarter he would have shut the fucking borders down.  He should have dealt swiftly with anyone trying to enter the country illegally.

He didn't.  Know we are fucked.  The US will be hit again, and soon.

258 I still think the best idea is to take a steel plate the size and shape of the ME and drop it on them from space, and rivet it to the bedrock

259

@28: "It makes a single F15 Strike Eagle equivalent to a WWII-era 1000 plane raid on Germany."

True enough, but 1,000 plane raids send a message all on their own, too - well beyond simply taking out a target.

260 It is a good question what we can do to weaken Islam. Bitching here on Ace about nuking mecca .... well it makes me feel good, but obviously that is extraordinarily unlikely. Sadly, I think even if we got nuked, we wouldn't nuke mecca in return. Might nuke Tehran or Islamabad, but not Mecca.

In the near term all I've really come up with is more Islamic blasphemy. Like at Diversity Day when we get told we have to respect all religions, we can ask the Diversity Nazi whether Muhammad raping his 9 year old child bride Aisha is something they respect, cause, you know, I was kinda raised to think that's the worst thing a grown man could do and really, really evil. Kind of the opposite of a thing I should respect.

Not clear how to get the Muslims to look at or even be aware of the blasphemy.

They'll never read my Muhammad the Pedo-Prophet jokes,  but they sure are aware of that Koran burning, aren't they?

261 Did we develop a gay bomb?  Let's use it and maybe they'll all kill each other.

262 The best time to have used nukes would have been on 9/12/2001.

263 I understand the rage about all this, honestly.  I may give voice to it myself.  But I'm still rather concerned about how the lesser-evolved teabaggers that infest this site are going to express it because they're certain to do so without any nuance.

Posted by: Biff G. at April 01, 2011 07:04 PM (FYCiJ)

 

Hey, Biff!  Here's some nuance:  Fuck off! 

264 'Moderate Muslims' dance in the streets to celebrate the acts of 'radical Muslims.'

265 I believe they are a threat to us. Look at what they're doing to Europe, thanks to all the pc nonsense. It's just the ridiculous stuff such as banning piggy banks. It's the incorporation of sharia law into our justice system. Alex de Tocqueville is shitting bricks right now in his grave.

266 know = now

Stupid fingers

267 Until our leaders are willing to say we are at war with Islam and that Muslims are our enemy, this will not be resolved.

268 It's getting harder and harder to regard muslims as human beings--and I know that's a terrible thing to say, but there it is, and they're the ones who changed my thinking.

269

@30: "I care only about what our behavior says about us."

Not sure that "You can more or less attack us with impunity" is really the best message to be putting out.  "Demons in Hell will weep in utter despair at the sight of the carnage that we will inflict upon you every time you look at us weird" is probably a lot more effective.

270 I know!

BACON BOMBS.

It would cause mass suicide!

271 "Posted by: Biff G. at April 01, 2011 07:04 PM (FYCiJ)" You funny boy.

272 Freakanomics and abortion.

273 Here's a question, which do you think is more likely:

1) That we nuke mecca/go medieval on the Muslims.

or

2) That the true identity of the commenters here who have proposed nuking mecca (or something similarly brutal and violent) get tracked down and charged with a hate crime?

How about in 5 years? or 10? or 20?

Sadly I think #2 is much more likely than #1 in my lifetime. That a discussion like this will actually become a crime in the United States of America seems quite plausible.

274 Well first we have to get B Hussein O out of office. Then we could *maybe* implement some gloves off strategies. I find the superstition/violence/72virgins the most offsetting. Put me in charge of U.S. policy and anyone convicted of terrorism against us dies by pig. Because I'm a giver I'll sedate them so its not cruel and unusual punishment and against the constitution.

275 Biting tongue and signing off before saying something that could get me killed. Some muzzy goat fucker could get incensed and track me down.

276 ""I understand the rage about all this, honestly.  I may give voice to it myself.  But I'm still rather concerned about how the lesser-evolved teabaggers that infest this site are going to express it because they're certain to do so without any nuance.""


My idea of nuance-
  we will only vaporize these fucks on the 3 day of every week, with an additional surprise rotating day, and weekends we have off.

277 When I watched the news during 9/11, and it transpired that the Taliban in A-Stan was behind it, I was hoping for a pair of ICBMs to land on Kabul. We should have done that.

278 I postulate
1) If some guy with the reputation of George Patton gets elected, a lot of this shit will stop.

2) If Barky gets re-elected, this shit will pick up.

... In the meantime, look for more of the same shit at the same pace.

279 Lets face facts. The Western World is weak and we are probably not going to win this war for the simple fact that we don't have the Moral Will to fight it They will win and Liberals will celebrate it.

280 BACON BOMBS.

Honest to God, I don't know why we don't spread this as propaganda. Tell them we grease our guns and bullets and bombs with pig fat. Tell them we will bury them with pigs after we kill them. Who cares if it's true or not? These are people willing to believe anything they're told.

281 We had the correct tactics during the Moro Rebellion.

282

@70: "I am talking about the traditional, exceptional American view that all life is worth protecting, unless it demonstrates something else."

Unless that life happened to be German or Japanese.  Our air forces did a pretty good job of killing their civilians.  Amerind tribes might also note that our soliders could kill civilians with the best of them.

We don't have the worst history by a long shot, but we don't always fight by Queensbury rules, either.

283 """Put me in charge of U.S. policy and anyone convicted of terrorism against us dies by pig. Because I'm a giver I'll sedate them so its not cruel and unusual punishment and against the constitution.""

I said for years remains of suicide bombers should be stuffed in a pigs ass and buried ass up in televised ceremonies.

284 272 

Hey, Biff!  Here's some nuance:  Fuck off! 

- - -

Lesser-evolved nuance:  Fuck off and die!

285

@88: "We knock the shit out of our enemy with extreme prejudice, only stopping at unconditional surrender. When they capitulate, we give them a constitution and enforce it.

Which isn't exactly a new rule [cough]japan[cough], but it certainly is a rule that has been proven effective."

Forgiveness, please.  Japan did not surrender entirely unconditionally.

286 I said for years remains of suicide bombers should be stuffed in a pigs ass and buried ass up in televised ceremonies.

Did the Russians do that with the Moscow Opera House terrorists?

If you google it, I get a link to an Israelnational news story, but the link is dead.  But I seem to recall them burying them in this fashion. 

287 I certainly wish that the "high road" approach had worked. But it hasn't. When you have protesters in Western cities holding signs decrying freedom of speech, and demanding death to those who insult Islam, where do you go from there? The religion just doesn't seem compatible with Western ideology and values (such as they are, nowadays). So - maybe we should stop trying to establish 'democracies' and get the hell out. And stop letting them into Western countries- if that's how they want to live, fine, they can stay home. If not, let them fix their own hellholes before causing trouble elsewhere. Warn then, then use the "Ripley Solution" if they attack us again. And if it's OK to go on a rampage over one f'ing Koran being burned, then they should have been heavily smacked over the destruction of the two Buddhas by the Taliban. (I'm home sick and cranky - this story just infuriates me - along with all the wusses blaming Jones for the murders and calling for his arrest, etc.)

288 Leave Biff alone!

289 My biggest fear is a Belsan or Mumbai style attack.

290

Fa Cube.

You seem to have missed the " unless it demonstrates something else." part.

 The Germans, Japanese, and Amerind tribes (with the exception of the Nez Perce and perhaps a few others) specifically targeted civilians and therefore sacrificed the rights of their own.

291 Here's another idea. Halal food is spreading quickly in America. There are several Halal places near where I live that I used to eat at. One is just a regular sub shop. The owner went Halal cause it made business sense -- it brought in Muslims and non-Muslims didn't know or care.

I now refuse to eat there as a matter of principle. I'll happily eat at  a Kosher deli since the Jews aren't trying to kill me, my family, and my country.

I didn't make a fuss or let him know why he lost a customer. Maybe I should have.

292 Oh, and the Israelis put bags of pig fat on their transit buses to deter suicide attacks.  (At least, there was talk of doing so). 

293 Someone, Mark Steyn perhaps, wrote a commentary on Europe and Islam.  His premise was that Europe is in such a PC stupor that by the time they wake up, Islam will have progressed to the point that very few options (if any) exist.  This will lead to Europe doing what it does very well when actually motivated, killing its enemy with brutal and gruesome efficiency. 

294

OK.... pre emptive condemnation of myself.. but...

WE are bombing Libya to prevent a Massacre... so when do we start to bomb these folks?

295 When do you turn the other cheek and when does it become a greater evil to turn the other cheek? When does grace, compassion, and love become the tools of evil? Answering that question is a lifelong struggle.

296 All this is moot for now.  Obama doesn't have the stones or the inclination to take the fight to Islamofascists.  Even less-so that Bush.

297

@110: "Now if we're talking about killing them anyway, why not really push abortion for them?"

Dead enemies are dead enemies are dead enemies.  The means of getting them there are simply tactical choices - so yes.

298 302 My biggest fear is a Belsan or Mumbai style attack.

Yes, particularly in a rural area where the police response will be defuse and delayed.  I think US troops have found documents in Iraq and Afghanistan detailing preliminary planning for such attacks in the US heartland.  

299 I'm thinking about producing a "Matchlight" type charcoal briquette where you lay it down in your BBQ or smoker and ignite the bag...but the bag is made of Koran pages. You then use it to cook pork butts and ribs while the drippings further "desecrate" it. (I'm putting it in quotations because as far as I'm concerned you can't desecrate something which is satanic, that would be an oxymoron). I'm thinking of selling these on Etsy...any interest?

300 35   Someone linked to an anagram maker in the previous thread.  My whole name including middle turns into HUM! LUCRATIVE AROMATIC Posted by: Flapjackmaka at April 01, 2011 05:39 PM (c5RQr)
My ex's name became HOLLOW, CARNAL JERK.   ...which pretty well tells the tale.  I laughed so hard it feels like something broke.

301 I understand the rage about all this, honestly.  I may give voice to it myself.  But I'm still rather concerned about how the lesser-evolved teabaggers that infest this site are going to express it because they're certain to do so without any nuance. Posted by: Biff G. at April 01, 2011 07:04 PM (FYCiJ) Excellent sock. I was just thinking how our resident ConcernFag NetScold jumped our shit in the First. Fucking. Post. Laws, yes! It would be a shame if our diversity became a victim! Run on over to your fainting couch while the menfolk talk.

302

I second LGoPs #265. But the PC mentality rules on the Right, too. Look at MyPetJawa's take on Herman Cain's comments. (More familiar to y'all as Drew's take, but I don't count him.)

If even the pro-Tea-Party Right thinks there's something wrong with the statement "the US government needs to avoid putting its most-fervent ideological enemies in positions of power", then we may as well embrace the suck, the DOOOM, the boning, whatever you call it.

303 In any war you need only kill enough that the survivors forever change their religion.

304

Our freedoms are not as important as making sure we are the nicest people on the planet, and we never piss anybody off.

Especially people who will kill us.

305 The pissy parser here is giving me grief over links again- if you want to the read "The Three Conjectures" and variation of the theme, punch that into a search with "Belmont," then they are easy to find.

306 Yes, particularly in a rural area where the police response will be defuse and delayed.



Umm, I posted this yesterday:

AQAP Urges US Sympathizers to Attack Malls, Nightclubs [UPDATE/BUMPED] (JAWA)

But Samir, like all al Qaeda leaders with inflated egos, thinks he's too important to do the actual dying himself.

From Inspire #5's Q&A with readers:

Question:
As-Salâm ‘Alaykum. I live in the West and greatly desire hijrah to the lands of jihad such as Afghanistan or Yemen. I have the money ready and have an idea of where to go...

RESPONSE: ..... What we recommend is that you focus on planning out attacks in the West .... Similarly, the mujahidin leadership are today asking the brothers in the West specifically to attack Western interests in the West instead of coming here to Yemen for example. ...

The foreign brothers that join the mujahidin, many amongst them, conclude
that it would have been better for them to return to the West and launch operations. This is because killing 10 soldiers in America for example, is much more effective than killing 100 apostates in the Yemeni military.

With that said, based on your ability, you choose the target. Your pool of targets are large, so make sure to think of all of the available options. An example of something local, easy and effective is attacking an army recruiting center, nightclub, highway or busy shopping mall.

The article then goes on to say that nearly all of the [ed note by Democrats on House Homeland Security Committee: nonexistent] homegrown terrorists caught last year were part of groups planning attacks. The inference the author draws is that would-be jihadis should not try and contact others before attacking. He notes successful jihadis such as Nidal Hassan, the Fort Hood killers, and Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, the Stockholm suicide bomber, were lone wolfs.

307 Yes, particularly in a rural area where the police response will be defuse and delayed.  I think US troops have found documents in Iraq and Afghanistan detailing preliminary planning for such attacks in the US heartland.  

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 01, 2011 07:29 PM (muhWA)

 

If the theater is showing "Eat Pray Love" I'd say let them do what they want.

308 The hell?  The spam's becoming more colorful.

309 Someone, Mark Steyn perhaps, wrote a commentary on Europe and Islam.  His premise was that Europe is in such a PC stupor that by the time they wake up, Islam will have progressed to the point that very few options (if any) exist.  This will lead to Europe doing what it does very well when actually motivated, killing its enemy with brutal and gruesome efficiency sitting on their hands and waiting for American GIs to come rescue them, once it's near impossible. 

FIFY

310 Excellent sock. I was just thinking how our resident ConcernFag NetScold jumped our shit in the First. Fucking. Post.

Have I mentioned recently how Mark Kirk is totally full of win?

311 Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 01, 2011 07:29 PM (muhWA)

And the only possible way to stop an attack in progress in some places is an armed citizenry. I may start carrying my father's M1 Carbine or Mini-14 in the trunk of my car.

312 Face the facts, Bush was wrong. Islam is not a religion of peace, but instead is a ideology hell bent on fighting, killing and oppressing anyone who does not subscribe to the idea that Muhammad was a prophet of god and that everything in the Quran is the word of god.....It really is that simple. That is Islam....

313 Balls! Paging Balls! Anydody got Balls ?

314 I've heard that two brazillian muslims support democracy.  Until that number dwindles substantially, there's no reason to panic.

315 AQAP Urges US Sympathizers to Attack Malls, Nightclubs

They haven't been very good at it yet.

"Hope they continue to be bumbling idiots" isn't going to work forever.

316

FNC talking about the royal wedding.  In my mind I can't help but think it would be the perfect event for a terrorist attack.  I'm sure I'm wrong and just conjecturing. 

317 1 I understand the feeling, but I'm worried at what the comments here are going to devolve into.

Posted by: Jeff B. at April 01, 2011 05:25 PM (NjYDy)

Hey, I may use the word fuck later too. You need some headsup on that?

318 329 - Well, I heard the only thing you brought back from Brazil was a new wax job on what is left of your balls. /my ods is shining tonight.

319 If the Islamists ever start an all-out war with the West, it might prove difficult with the way they move around and hide throughout the ME.  As brutal as it sounds, it might be best to go the bio-weapon route.  The West has the vaccines.  The ME doesn't.  Oops, looks like you should have pursued advancing your culture instead of violence, death and destruction... enjoy those 72 virgins!

320 In my mind I can't help but think it would be the perfect event for a terrorist attack.

The groom's father has all but converted...

I've been expecting an attack on every Super Bowl, but if they were smart, they'd pick a high school game in some football-crazed hinterland.  Two thousand dead, no one in the East Coast city-based BLM cares enough to get the news out nationwide, so you can repeat in a different state next Friday.

321

I thought all DOOM! threads were animated with a kitteh?

Methinks Bush should have followed up his 'we will pursue these terrorists and those that harbor them' with a WWII type of national call-to-arms. Instead we got "everybody go shopping"!

322 Easier to have a private army than to change 1/2 the country's childlike political agenda. Most problems in life are not solved by the political process. Many use private security.

323 What we need to do is genetically engineer an STD which (1) causes immediate sterilization and eventual death, and (2) is only transmittable by man-on-goat sex.

Islamotard problem solved!

Posted by: wooga at April 01, 2011 05:29 PM (2p0e3)

Thanks wooga, I'll be thinking of you when I shop for a new screen.

324
My Catholic background saddles me with the whole 'just war' concept.
------------------------

Cf. Jesus Christ's disposition of crazed swine.

325 There's a reason this Afghan thing has dragged on ten years. Just sayin'.

326

The line that only a small percentage of the muslims are jihadi-inclined just doesn't wash with me.  I have never heard any of the moderate to "liberal" muslims condemn publically any heinous act commited by the muslim terrorists, thus I am forced to consider them part of the problem as well.  In particular, their actions give the lie to the notion that all cultures are of equal value and deserving of respect.

If I was interested in the survival of Western Civilization (as I know it), I would rapidly conclude that there is no effective way for us and our principles to co-exist with any adherent to this 7th century barbaric evil religion.  The West has deliberately been so neutered by decades of progressive double-think that Bush could not even realistically consider retribution for 9/11 on the cosmic scale, even though this was what was called for.  A gentlemen's war will not suffice.

The only rational way to get their attention is to by attrition on the large scale.  Since none of the goat fu**ers wear uniforms, carry insignia of rank, or answer to a higher command authority, they and anyone in their vicinity is guilty enough for me to consider them as worhty of vaporization.  I rest assured that if (and eventually when) they have the same tools (NBW) they will use them indiscriminantly (see IED's and truck bomb in the ME).

Unfortunately, the required operational action seems to be kill them in as ordered a manner possible and continue to kill them in large quantities whenever these scum raise their heads out of the sand.  It may take a generation or three, but eventually we will get their attention!

327
I understand the feeling, but I'm worried at what the comments here are going to devolve into.

Posted by: Jeff B. at April 01, 2011 05:25 PM (NjYDy)

Thankfully none of our modern day president's were in office during WWII or the Concern Fag's mother would have been fucking a Kraut or Jap and he would be speaking their language.  Over. 

328

FNC talking about the royal wedding.  In my mind I can't help but think it would be the perfect event for a terrorist attack.  I'm sure I'm wrong and just conjecturing. 

Posted by: Soona at April 01, 2011 07:46 PM

I was in England in 1981, my father had me fly home 6 months early because he was concerned about attacks during the Diana Chuck Royal Wedding. Flew home in June of 1981, Heathrow to New York on Pan Am flight 103 on the Princess of the Skies.

329

Shep seemed to put the blame firmly where it belonged during his story, on "so-called preacher" Jones.

*end-of-civilization facepalm*

330 FYI:  Gutfeld is on O'Reilly tonight.  It might actually be worth watching for once.

331 What would the Romans do?

332 "In burning his Quran, Terry Jones has merely told what time of day it is. It is high noon."...anyone who knows anything about the American Civil War will know what I am talking about....

333 Bush's way will not work. No amount of blood and treasure is going to produce a Mohammedan nation that is ultimately on the side of the U.S. and Israel.

334

Shep seemed to put the blame firmly where it belonged during his story, on "so-called preacher" Jones.

*end-of-civilization facepalm*

Posted by: Beagle at April 01, 2011 07:58 PM (sOtz/)

Even FOX doesn't understand reality.

335 I did then, and still do, criticize Bush for being a Born-Again Christian.

The problem with the Born-Agains is they don't understand the just war concept. Give me some Medieval Catholics and another Crusade. Fuck-a-Bee and Bush don't understand that "turning the other cheek" , doesn't mean bending over an taking it up the ass.

336 I understand the feeling, but I'm worried at what the comments here are going to devolve into.

Posted by: Jeff B. at April 01, 2011 05:25 PM (NjYDy)

 

Puss Puss.  Why not fly to Saudi Arabia and go skipping down the highway toward mecca or medina and watch all the hilarius devolvement ensue.

337 344

Shep seemed to put the blame firmly where it belonged during his story, on "so-called preacher" Jones.

*end-of-civilization facepalm*

Posted by: Beagle at April 01, 2011 07:58 PM (sOtz/)

Shep needs a teachable moment, and by that I mean he needs to go to Afghanistan for a while to do news stories. While there, he needs to 'unfortunately' get kidnapped by the Taliban. It may bring a new perspective to him while he pisses himself wondering when they're going to kill him. I would want him to survive so he could come back a changed man/woman.

338 These people are sub-human savages.  They cannot be viewed on the same level as the civilized world.  They should be shown no Christian mercy. 

339 Any farmer/rancher will tell you, "to get rid of the momma and daddy rats you have to get rid of the baby rats to..." the entire middle east is an infestation of murderers, rapists, sadists with no appreciable contribution to cicilaztion in the last 1300 years.

340 354 Any farmer/rancher will tell you, "to get rid of the momma and daddy rats you have to get rid of the baby rats to..." the entire middle east is an infestation of murderers, rapists, sadists with no appreciable contribution to cicilaztion in the last 1300 years.

Posted by: Rob in katy at April 01, 2011 08:03 PM (PiTBB)

Wait, wait, we would have never got to the Moon, if they didn't steal the number system from the Hindi!

341

Posted by: NASA at April 01, 2011 08:04 PM

And introducing the metric system killed our Mars lander...

342 A new thread would be nice. About anything really.

343

Posted by: NASA at April 01, 2011 08:04 PM

And introducing the metric system killed our Mars lander...

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:07 PM (ZUWaD)

The spaceship that landed on Mars was not metric, but it did land and return safely.

344

And introducing the metric system killed our Mars lander...

Is that the one we sent to the moon?

345 A new thread would be nice. About anything really.

Preferably something cheerier, yes?

346 This one was turning into a kinda cooking thread....

347 This the video accompany Ace's post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRjykNalGFM Fat Kid = USA Bully = Islamic Jihad If they get a nuke and use it on us, we will probably stop short of massive retaliation. We are the fat kid after all. But when the second city gets nuked, we are going to wind up going ballistic (literally) like the fat kid. As mentioned earlier, Wretchard's Third Conjecture lays out the inevitable logic.

348 Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at April 01, 2011 08:08 PM (RZ8pf)

You see my thank you to you in the other post?  I was the one asking about HOP.  My hubby and kids (mostly hubby) can't wait to see it.  He laughs like a school boy that just saw his brother kiss a girl, every time that damn blond eats the 'jelly beans'.

349 Couldn't type fast enough....sheesh

350 good take on what values are needed: http://bit.ly/paganethos  , the more noteworthy in that it was written before 2001

351 As mentioned earlier, Wretchard's Third Conjecture lays out the inevitable logic.

Link:  http://tinyurl.com/5939a

352

This one was turning into a kinda cooking thread....

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:09 PM (ZUWaD)

Were you looking for me?

353

Anyone else really like hummus?  On pita, natch.  

354 My two cents, having skipped the middle 250 posts of this thread.

1.) Leave Afghanistan, after:
- destroying everything we can't bring home
-destroying all their poppy fields. Hell, after destroying all their arable fields if we have to. Agent Orange, burning and sowing with salt, whatever. A nice, focused strategy.
-disarming their worthless-ass army, right down to the uniforms we bought them. Leave them just like we found them.
2.) Point out to the Iraqis what happened to the Afghanis when they pushed us too far.
3.) Since we don't need to suck up to the Pakis any more, get to work sabotaging their infrastructure and, eventually, destroying their nukes/delivery and targeting systems.
4.) Get back into the political assassination business.
5.) start buying foreign made explosives and using it on Iranian oil pipelines, depots, roads, airports, planes, bridges, dams, etc.

No need to use nukes, and we'll get the attention of a lot of powerful leaders. Just before we kill them.

Oh, and just keep going from there. Find them, fix them, kill them, wherever they are, whenever we can.

I know Obama and the Dems would never dare to do any of this, but maybe we can after the first week in January 2013.

355 Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at April 01, 2011 08:08 PM (RZ8pf)

I knew Tami was, but are you the other moron interested in the eagle cams? 

If so,  Another eagle cam.  The eaglets might hatch today!

356 There is a reason the Caliphate struck westward against Europe and not north and east against the Mongols.  Just sayin'......

357 This thread is deader than me after I skidded into a tree.

358 They have made it a death match. The sooner we win it the sooner we can move on to other things.

359 372 This thread is deader than me after I skidded into a tree.

Posted by: Barack Obama, Sr. at April 01, 2011 08:15 PM (g3OU+)

Wanna hear my story?

360 As a young black man he could get killed just skidding into a tree.

361

This thread is deader than Ted Kennedy's ego!

362 Gulf War one, in order to place soldiers in Saudi Arabia, all soldiers had to conceal or remove any personal body ornaments that showed Christian/other religious symbols and whatnot's. We did it to ourselves. What would happen if you refused that order? Join The Tea Party Armed Forces. Be really proud.

363 This thread is dead, don't you see?
We need another thread, Ace
Please blog it, 1 ..2 ..3

If we don't get another thread
I'm sorry to say
It will cap this gloomy, gloomy day

364

You see my thank you to you in the other post?

momma, yes I replied to you over there but I'll say it here too (and sorry for the name confusion) I am apparently more immune to the "adult" humor in kids movies than other people because I read some reviews of Hop and apparently I should've been more offended. So, you might want to read about it on Common Sense Media or one of those other sites to be sure the humor is OK for your kids.

365 I eat eyes
I eat ears
I drink blood
but prefer beers.

366   Two thousand dead, no one in the East Coast city-based BLM cares enough to get the news out nationwide, so you can repeat in a different state next Friday.

The flaw in this plan is that muslims want the publicity.They need high casualties and lots of cameras (se 9/11, Beltway Sniper, wannabe Times Square bomber). The only way this scenario happens is sheer laziness (Fort Hood Jihadi).

367

War? To what end? We'll "teach them a lesson"? Better to be feared than to be loved? I don't frankly care if they love "me"  (the US),  but the "fear" of the surivvors will surely spur them to revenge.  As they say in Wazirastan (home of Ramzi Yusef , etc) "A thousand years for revenge!".

One freaking turn of revenge upon another.  Well, that's an advance of civilization, I'm sure.

Frankly, it's a victory for the cult of Death that is Islam.  We then become more like them.

Funny that I just read this over at The Belmont Club , as Richard Fernandez wrote about the madness that is the Libyan Campaign:

This would not have been news to William Tecumseh Sherman who once said, “I confess, without shame, that I am sick and tired of fighting — its glory is all moonshine; even  success the most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies, with the anguish and lamentations of distant families, appealing to me for sons, husbands, and fathers Â… it is only those who have never heard a shot, never heard the shriek and groans of the wounded and lacerated Â… that cry aloud for more blood, more vengeance, more desolation.”

If you REALLY want to hurt the Muslim Arab world, burn their oilfields.  Sure, it will hurt us too.  But that is the modern source of their wealth and relative power.  We can overcome that loss, eventually.  They never will.

If you want your 7th century death cult, you can keep your 7th century death cult.

368 As soon as I get reelected I will get right on this. And after some golf. And a few celebrity parties. Maybe some B-Ball with the peeps.

Couple games of beer pong.

Trip to Man's Country.

Couple trips around the world...


Presidentin' is hard.


Tell ya what. I'll send a herd of armed unicorns into Afghanistan when I get around to it.


Valerie! Can I please have some more of those pills?

369

If you REALLY want to hurt the Muslim Arab world, burn their oilfields.  Sure, it will hurt us too.  But that is the modern source of their wealth and relative power.  We can overcome that loss, eventually.  They never will.

If you want your 7th century death cult, you can keep your 7th century death cult.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at April 01, 2011 08:20 PM (sJTmU)

Fly over Mecca and drop pig blood on the stupid meteorite they worship.

370  I am apparently more immune to the "adult" humor in kids movies than other people because I read some reviews of Hop and apparently I should've been more offended



As long as it doesn't teach my kids to disrespect me (mouth off) or have two bunnies humping, I am okay with it.

Since my 3 and 5 year old read, there isn't much they haven't heard/read.

The only things my kids hate in a movie are evil (bullies, true hateful characters, etc) and death.

371
Pig's blood is so yucky, slimy, and gross!

372

And introducing the metric system killed our Mars lander...

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:07 PM (ZUWaD)

You keep thinking that, squishy.

373 William Tecumseh Sherman



Hey, that is my grand pa pa (so many times removed!)

374

Fly over Mecca and drop pig blood on the stupid meteorite they worship.

Posted by: Mike H at April 01, 2011 08:21 PM

I always envisioned burying the town in a layer of pig carcasses dropped by waves of B-52s. They would have the paradox of moving them or allowing non-muzzies to Mecca.

375

 I keep thinking of OBLs comment way back when about his people following a strong horse.

 They see weakness in our humanity. They only place a value on the muslim umma, or whatever they call it. We should hit them very, very, hard when we need to and then leave them to their own desperation. This democracy exercise is only going to lead to a caliphate. And that will unlease the nukes. Its only a matter of time before we nuke some part of the middle east, because it is only a matter of time before they detonate one here.

376

I always envisioned burying the town in a layer of pig carcasses dropped by waves of B-52s. They would have the paradox of moving them or allowing non-muzzies to Mecca.

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:24 PM (ZUWaD)

See #279

377 389

Fly over Mecca and drop pig blood on the stupid meteorite they worship.

Posted by: Mike H at April 01, 2011 08:21 PM

I always envisioned burying the town in a layer of pig carcasses dropped by waves of B-52s. They would have the paradox of moving them or allowing non-muzzies to Mecca.

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:24 PM (ZUWaD)

The one drawback is the waste of bacon.

378 i guess ann was right...

379 Xcuse me Prez,

Ivory Coast: '800 killed in one city alone'

380

zombie momma, no humping bunnies and not really any disrespect. No one dies, and even the evil chicken isn't really all that evil. The good guys are in a semi-perilous situation at one point, but it's pretty obvious that they'll get themselves out of it. Early on, EB is sort of in peril but since it is at the beginning of the movie there's no doubt about the outcome.

The adult humor comes in the Playboy Mansion scenes which were dumb, and the Fatal Attraction reference which had me cackling out loud.

381

Terry Jones, the pastor whose Quran-burning event on Mar. 20 triggered mob violence that resulted in at least 11 deaths in Afghanistan on Friday, offered a fiery response to the bloodletting.

The killings are "a very tragic and criminal action," he said in a statement. "We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities."

382 In all seriousness, this is a war of religions. Until izlam is forcibly reformed (from within and without) there can be no peace.

Some future generation of Americans (and maybe in our lifetimes) will either have to nuke or surrender. You can't stop this avalanche of Dark Ages barbarism with a flower and a smile now any more than you could when their pedophile bandit leader was still alive. It will take the atom.

There are three types of muz:

1. Jihadis
2. Coward muz who are waiting for the chance to be jihadis if they get the chance to do it without risk.
3. Apathetic "moderate" muz who will bite their lower lip for 3 seconds, throw a party, and then move into our houses after we infidels are all dead.

383 365 & 366 both good reads.  

384

@303: "The Germans, Japanese, and Amerind tribes (with the exception of the Nez Perce and perhaps a few others) specifically targeted civilians and therefore sacrificed the rights of their own."

Germans - certainly true in the East, and to a lesser extent in UK and elsewhere in the West, but false with respect to the US.

Japanese - certainly true in China, P.I., etc., but false with respect to US (limited exceptions: (1) for civilian workers captured on Wake, etc.; (2) unless you count the balloon bombs, but they weren't "specifically aimed" at anything smaller than North America).

Amerind - didn't really have a concept of combatant/non-combatant, only friend/enemy.  US did have concept of combatant/non-combatant, but many units/commanders ignored it when dealing with the Indians.

385

O/T Last night some Dodger fan thugs beat a Giants fan in the parking lot (Note their team won), and tonight is:

**Fireworks Night **

Only Randy Newman can really love LA..

386 At the end of The Mote in God's Eye the Senator is contemplating what to do about the threat the Moties pose. He knows that they have a limited amount of time to act, because the Moties breed like - well, ME, and that sooner or later they'll overwhelm humanity. What he suggested always stuck with me: "I was thinking of the hoof-and-mouth disease remedy. If there isn't any hoof-and-mouth disease, then there won't BE any hoof-and-mouth disease." And then he chose to blockade them. Pussy.

387 Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at April 01, 2011 08:28 PM (RZ8pf)

It was me momma.  I just forgot to take my sock off. Sorry.  I was trying to see why everyone changes socks, but it is a pain in the ass.  Plus, I'm just too lazy   Back to my old self - momma



It sounds like my family will love that movie!  In fact, hubby just drove into town after reading your review, to buy tickets for tomorrow.

388  This democracy exercise is only going to lead to a caliphate. And that will unlease the nukes.

On the upside, a united caliphate makes the justification for widespread nuclear bombardment easier.

389

Only Randy Newman can really love LA..

Posted by: KZnextzone at April 01, 2011 08:32 PM (ZUWaD)

only real difference between LA and Baghdad is you can get a decent cup of coffee in Baghdad.

390 Don't worry, if we leave Afghanistan, it will force the Russians and Chinese to do something about it. Both them have put in billions of dollars into buying up mines, or future mines (like copper) in that hell hole. I could foresee a future slug fest between Russia, China and the Muhammadan world. The biggest mistake Reagan made, although at the time it seemed like the right idea so I can't be too critical, was to chase the Soviets completely out of Afghanistan. It is time we start playing Putin instead of him playing us. There is a reason why the Russians have allowed us to resupply our troops their by moving material over Russian soil....

391 Now now you don't want Rolling Stone to write about this!

392

Nuking Mecca is pointless. Due to the size of the explosion, a myth, that allah took the Kube up to heaven, or some other 9/11 Truther-esque silly shit, will appear, and never go away.

Unobscured video, electronic AND film, is the only way.

Air strikes, to allow a division in, makes much more sense. Televise the entry to the Kube, video the entire event.  Pull out the Black Coprolyte and the inscribed tablets inside, use sledgehammers to pound them to gravel with sledgehammers, then have a few pigs empty their colons on the rocks.

Drag the three columns outside, then break them into 3 or 4 pieces. Same for the door to the stairs.

Use just enough explosives to topple the Kube, then use some more explosives to collapse the remainder. Minimize the dust, make sure the building is clearly visible at all times. Add more incontinent pigs.  Shovel up a bunch of the result, and spread it around the countryside; outhouses, garbage dumps, slaughter houses, etc.

Televise it all.

393 On the upside, a united caliphate makes the justification for widespread nuclear bombardment easier.

And gives more solid targets to hit.  Although we aren't bereft of said targets today, with Tehran and Damascus being the top ones in my mind. 

394 Wisconsin Union Law Could Be on Hold For Months
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's contentious union-rights law will likely be on hold for two more months under a timeline spelled out by a Dane County Circuit Court Judge on Friday—unless the state Supreme Court intervenes.

395 Posted by: Arbalest at April 01, 2011 08:36 PM (wyXNQ)

You keep talking like that, and Jeff B's gonna get upset.

396 UncleFacts: Please tell me I'm not going to be banned again.

397

Does Option 2 put me in the barbarian category?  So be it. 

Bush was wrong but I doubt Clinton would have retaliated any differently.  Something in the ideology turns muslims into HINOS.  (human in name only).

No more visas from that part of the world.  Bandar had the Saudis so far up both Bush backsides they were blinded to the deception. 

398

After 9/11, I had a much less Christian sort of thought about how to deal with a murder cult.

At some point yesterday, what with bombing Khadafy's forces AND the rebel forces, weren't we getting close to a "Kill them all and let God sort 'em out" solution?

399 Please forgive my length. (You would be surprised how often I have to say that.) A friend was in Iraq (2 tours) and recently told me this story: His unit was set to move to a different part of town when the locals attempted to stop the deployment. With children. Fathers had their children lay down in front of the armored vehicles while they watched from the sidewalks. If they children did not lay in the street, they knew their fathers would kill them. (These fathers may have been operating under similar coercion.) The unit commander warned them to get out of the way but nobody moved. So he ordered the unit to proceed and the armored vehicles crushed those children. The locals did not repeat this strategy. For the record, I think the commander and our troops acted wisely. IMO, we won against a medieval death cult in Japan because nuclear attack broke their will. They were beaten and, most importantly, they knew they were beaten. There was no ambiguity or face saving excuses to it. But that happened after we had demonstrated an unwaivering willingness to shed oceans of our blood to shed oceans of theirs. The death cult we face now is betting we don't have the will for that. They are betting we cannot stomach much bloodshed at all. They may be right. The perpetually adolescent Left is a serious vulnerability in a closely divided country like ours. Mobilizing these internal enemies made the difference between claiming the military victory we had already won in Vietnam and throwing it away for a self-inflicted defeat. Evil regimes around the world do not forget lessons like that. Before we get to nukes, though, we might want to consider this: "The victims were killed by weapons that the demonstrators had wrestled away from the United Nations guards, according to Mr. Noor" I'm only surprised the weapons were loaded. Maybe we can work on some thorough displays of conventional defense - you know, like gunning down the charging hoards of fanatics and leaving no man standing - before we start leveling cities. Even a few mini-guns can really make a big impression if you bother to use them. If that does not work, bomb the mosques where the riots were incited after the next mob gets mowed down. Introduce their clerics to our snipers. I hear the leaders of regimes that support the bad guys can be pretty accident prone, too. I'm really OK with dropping the nukes if it comes to that. Maybe even a little impatient for it. But we have not yet demonstrated the strength of will we showed in WW II. Dropping nukes now would not be a sign of strength and it would not break anyone's will. (Would our will be broken if a couple of our cities were nuked?) If anything, it would be seen as proof that we have no stomach for taking casualties of our own. That kind of perceived weakness only invites attack on the perceived weak spot. This is about will. Our response as private citizens should be to burn a thousand Korans. And the official response should be to gun down the next mob that tries to repeat today's performance.

400 Our ruling classes accept high taxes and putting their children in danger(just like those fighters in Gaza do). I don't trust their instincts or any decisions they make. I'll change my blog to Mommy Mommy Why Is Socialism So Mean To Me?

401 Maybe instead of nuking Mecca, we should just take that stupid rock, Black Stone/Kaaba, away and hide it...Muslims won't know which way to pray....

402 @ 411 Fuckin' guy is pissin' on the Jeff Brand.

403 We'll wait until none of the pretty solutions (relatively) will work and we'll have to do the ugly one.

Probably until after we get nuked, at which point people will start *hanging* politicians *here* if there isn't ground-shakingly massive retaliation.

And forget what the Europeans think, because it will be the same as what they think now, only moreso.

I'd rather contain the problem but that's not going to happen because it requires concerted, long-term action, political sacrifices and international cooperation, and that's halfway to Alice's six impossible things.

404 419 @ 411

Fuckin' guy is pissin' on the Jeff Brand.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at April 01, 2011 08:42 PM (TATbF)

pissin or pussin?

405 All Fed vehicles will be required to be green compliant by 2015

But guess who gets a waiver?

406 I don't really agree with this post.  We're nowhere near the "total war" stage yet.

But I completely agree with this comment:

They wish to make war, but they want to do so insulated from the horrors of war. They're being infantilized by permitting to choose this course, war without consequences.

That's the problem in a nutshell.

I'm not sure exactly what we should do, but this current dynamic of pretending we're guests in the country we're occupying clearly isn't working.

407 I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

408 After ATF Blows Deadline, Issa Issues Subpoena for Project Gunrunner Papers

409 Although we aren't bereft of said targets today, with Tehran and Damascus being the top ones in my mind. 

I have a feeling we'll be adding Cairo sometime around July.

410

Remember this one?

Meanwhile in the real, PC, world it would be nice to make sure any military officer who gives powerpoints on jihad against the unbeliever does not make general.  

411 pissin or pussin? Yes.

412 422 All Fed vehicles will be required to be green compliant by 2015

But guess who gets a waiver?

Let me guess, the Presidential fleet?  Makes sense as those vehicles have armor plating comparable to tanks, but still.  This directive will just make all Fed vehicles 3-5x more expensive.  More taxpayer moolah down the drain, huzzah! 

413 And "another day, another Muslim massacre" is not an exaggeration with over 17,000 lethal Islamic terror attacks since 9/11.

Actually that's almost 5 a day.

And that's not the number of dead, that's the number of *attacks* that resulted in one or more deaths.

This is not a tiny problem, this is not exceptions or aberrations, and that doesn't include ordinary violent crime.

We'll get a handle on it or "war of all against all" will stop being a scary phrase and become reality.

414 All Fed vehicles will be required to be green compliant by 2015 But guess who gets a waiver? Posted by: Miss'80sBaby G.E. and other really early retirement packages titled Solvent Green Answers.

415 The next time a Lefttard calls US soldiers baby-killers and you guys go nuts on him, think about the shit said in these comments. Muslims are human beings. We have no right to exterminate them. We have no right to slaughter them wholesale when our true targets are terrorists. We do have the right to exterminate their religion.

416 What we have here is a failure to communicate. 

We just need to talk the language they understand.  The difference is we can turn off the savagery like a switch when the necessary killing is done since its not something we would choose as a 1st option and its really not our nature.

417 Whenever a "born-again christian" starts spouting off, it's best to ignore them till they get drunk again.

418 There's that famous line from the film Gladiator - "I have seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark." Pretty much sums it up; people just need to deal with the reality, and end this self-destructive multicultural fantasy.

419 Against All Odds: Japanese Dog Found Alive at Sea Three Weeks After Tsunami

420

Now, as to compassion or compression, I say compression.  These violent savages need to be boxed in.  They need to fear the world.

Momma, in the past, moslems were always non-threatening and reasonable after being trounced by a superior military power.  Then during a period of peace they get enboldened and try again. 

421 No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science‹the science against which it had vainly struggled‹the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

Posted by: iknowtheleft

Exactly right. Winston knew whereof he spoke.

As much as possible, shut off the Mulsim world from the West (and the East).  no cell phones, no cars, no steel, no technology. No visas, no vists to the west, no emigres from Muslim lands, and kick out those who are already here. They are a poison on our culture and politics.

If they are so smart, they will develop that stuff themselves. They won't.

Destroy the oilfields, and they will collapse back to their previous primitive existence.  Let them devour each other. 

Multi-culturalism didn't work, the democracy project initiated by Bush probably won't work, so what is left?  Annihilation or  prophilaxis?

  A blockade of technology and the tools from the West (and East - the Chinese and others must be part of this).

422 Random thought:  How long after Qaddafi wins will it take for....my money is, of course on John Effing Kerry, to float the idea that we need "dialog" with him?

423 Actions have consequences, and, I am of the opinion that WE start meting out some of those consequences. Muslims are like spoiled little brats who continually want to push the envelope.. It is time to push back. I have lost too many comrades. How many people have WE lost? How many resources have we given? What have we received in return? I apologize if you think me too bitter, but this is where I am. My tolerance for muslim heathens has given way to intolerance for their blind suicidal stupidity. THIS is NOT a religion. It is a philosophy, and one that ALL God fearing men should spurn.

424 ""Posted by: Josef K. at April 01, 2011 08:13 PM""




That was better than viagra.

425 What a sad religion.

Posted by: Dr Spank

 

---------------------------

Dr. Spank,

This is the mistake people make.  It is not a religion.  In America, we provide freedoms to and about religion that should not include Islam. 

If you know muslims, ask them to denounce the extremists.  They can't do it.

Take off your politically correct thinking cap and evaluate the value of your life and country.  There is a goal to Islam:  world domination!

Funny that Christians are called extremists!

426 guess it would be futile to ask for an early evening cocktail thread...

427 439 Random thought:  How long after Qaddafi wins will it take for....my money is, of course on John Effing Kerry, to float the idea that we need "dialog" with him?

The same day of Qaddafi's victory, even before the last of the defeated rebel's bodies have assumed room temperature. 

428 I fail to see how the born-again Christian and option 2 conflict with each other?  Bush's option was not the born-again Christian option - it was the chump option.  There's nothing in the Bible that says, "Thou shalt be a chump."  Compassion and mercy are on a person-to-person level.  Not culture-to-culture.  If someone has explained it that way to you they have done you a disservice.

429

... and, as an interim measure:

Raise the price of wheat/corn/food that we sell to them (and start controlling all exports and foreign aid, real tightly); tie it to the price of oil.

Worst case, we start plowing fields with windmill-powered tractors, and they start drinking their oil.

430 THIS is NOT a religion. It is a philosophy

That's the big mistake a huge number of people make -- thinking Islam is just a religion, when in fact its an all-encompassing alternative (albeit dysfunctional) socio-economic system.

431 The problem is the sheer # of Muslims. They keep breeding and we keep sending them money to feed their brood.

Every day, they grow like a cancer.

432 445 I fail to see how the born-again Christian and option 2 conflict with each other?  Bush's option was not the born-again Christian option - it was the chump option.  There's nothing in the Bible that says, "Thou shalt be a chump."  Compassion and mercy are on a person-to-person level.  Not culture-to-culture.  If someone has explained it that way to you they have done you a disservice.

Liberal Christian circles describe it as being culture-to-culture, which President Bush belongs to a denomination which has been known to embrace more liberal ideas.

/Not all churches, mind, but the church hierarchy.

433 Maybe we can work on some thorough displays of conventional defense - you know, like gunning down the charging hoards of fanatics and leaving no man standing -

That reminds me of a story from a book about Blackwater my libtard sister recommended to me. The author was outraged over an incident in Iraq where something like an embassy was being overrun and in the heat of the moment a Blackwater employee was "giving orders" (coordinating, really) a half dozen marines on site. I thought the bigger part of the tale was that 7 guys on a rooftop with machineguns held off over 2000 attackers coming in waves from the local mosque, leaving half that number dead in the street.

434 His unit was set to move to a different part of town when the locals attempted to stop the deployment. With children. Fathers had their children lay down in front of the armored vehicles while they watched from the sidewalks. If they children did not lay in the street, they knew their fathers would kill them. (These fathers may have been operating under similar coercion.) The unit commander warned them to get out of the way but nobody moved. So he ordered the unit to proceed and the armored vehicles crushed those children.

The locals did not repeat this strategy. For the record, I think the commander and our troops acted wisely.

Posted by: VRWC Agent at April 01, 2011 08:42 PM (gjy1/)

Sorry....I'm having trouble believing this.  Someone, somewhere would have run to the press.  If not a local, I have a feeling someone in the unit would have reported it.  That would be too hard to live with.

435 I'm with you, but the key is to retake the gulf oil fields, not destroy them.

This is the west's biggest long term strategic challenge -- to remove the oil weapon as a lever against our economies.

436 The author was outraged over an incident in Iraq where something like an embassy was being overrun and in the heat of the moment a Blackwater employee was "giving orders" (coordinating, really) a half dozen marines on site.

Sorry--horseshit.

437 The next atrocity gets Mecca vaporized.  How's that sound?  We can even give them 23 hours' notice.

438 And vaporize Medina while you're at it.

439 Food & potable water: wmds of the 21st century, babay!

440 99.9 of our soldiers are the best just killers in the World. If i were captured by any army i pray it is western, i guess?

441 For those saying there must be a better way, well, you've got your work cut out for you.

Islam was written to prevent reformation. You have to convince them to change their core beliefs, in defiance of EXPLICIT instruction from their prophet, and then erase that instruction and the violent and intolerant portions of the faith, or it WILL come back. It always does.

That's why even truly "moderate" families sometimes produce a terrorist - he studied the text and it told him to kill the infidel.

So we contain the problem, which it's too late to do because they're spreading the faith here and in Europe and in South America and Africa... or, what?

We're not going to slaughter everyone who declares themselves part of a certain culture, burn all the books, and delete it from the internet. Even if we were that heartless, that just ain't gonna happen.

We can't force them to behave, unless you have a really clever idea I haven't thought of.

We can't wall them in because they're everywhere.

We can't really just let the mass murder and brush wars continue forever, especially with nuclear escalation.

No, sorry, I don't have the answer. Hope somebody comes up with one.

442 We do have the right to exterminate their religion.

Eman, if you'd like to go convert them to the faith of evolution, you're more than welcome to try. Let us know how that works out.

443 @ VRWC Agent, Then what happened? Scotty Beauchamp Your friend wore a piece of one of the crushed children's skull like a hat while cracking jokes? Were eyetears rolling down his headface as he dredged up all these painful mindthoughts?

444 Multiculturalism still paying dvidends to the stupid British.

445 Against All Odds: Japanese Dog Found Alive at Sea Three Weeks After Tsunami

Posted by: momma at April 01, 2011 08:52 PM (penCf)

Awwwww....thanks for that!

446

This one by "Roland Shirk" is a classic. 

 Toth explained that U.S. intelligence agencies have for the past 12 months been working with new security partners: the Egypt-based Muslim Brotherhood. “This once-controversial group, which long ago renounced the use of force, has an incredibly far-ranging web of connections,” Toth said. “Their assets extend through every Middle Eastern country, a number of nations in Asia, and even extend to a network of campus student organizations in the U.S. They have so much to offer us, now that we have won their trust,” Toth said. “It took time for us to convince some of the 'Old Guard' inside our intel agencies that we have no long-term quarrel with the Brothers,” Toth told Fox reporters. “But this administration has been unrelenting about this, making a number of transfers and forced retirements in order to clear away irrational opposition to our new approach.” 

Disturbing verisimilitude.   

447 Tami, I believe him. The story was not told to make points with me (he was risking the opposite, in fact) or to make political or philosophical points either. It was certainly something the enemy would do and the alternative, essentially turning over control of the unit deployments to the bad guys, is unacceptable. I believe this war on the Muslim extremists is all about will. I believe it has the shape it has because of Vietnam and lesser examples like Mogadishu. If we would not do as he described, shame on us.

448 The complainers are right about one thing, it's not Muslims that are the problem, and it's only most Muslims that are the problem.

When you think about it, they probably have a better percentage than lawyers, so there's that.

I actually do know actual, real, moderate, friendly, against-violence Muslims. They do exist.

But they can't do a lot because they're in the minority and are afraid of blockheads on every side.

They're kind of like our commenter curious, in a way. They know other Muslims who go on about bigoted Westerners and they believe it even though they never see it happening.

So most of them just don't see any profit in speaking out. They need a mass movement but no one wants to be the first to stand up, and the majority of Muslims (according to polls in our and their nation, the slanted example of student clubs and protests, and my personal "have met people" poll) at least support most of the violent, bigoted portions of Islam, even if they don't act that way themselves.

It is a problem.

449 the koran is the problem these muslims are just doing what it says and guess what; it is not going to change. People need to see Islam for what it is and that is what we are fighting; potentially all those fuckers.

450 Current manifestations of Christianity are just that, a watered-down, social gospel. We have had Christian men and women through the ages that knew evil and knew how to fight it. Patton was a Christian man, and knew how to fight evil, even enjoyed doing so. Many of our founders were Christians, they knew how to fight, and knew what they were fighting for. Lincoln attributed the Author of "Uncle Tom's Cabin," of igniting this "great and terrible war." That would be the devoted Christian woman, Harriet Beecher Stowe. The list goes on. If your Christianity is an impediment or excuse to not fight evil, even by means of war, then you neither understand the purpose of Christ, nor history, nor God's dealings upon the human race though history. Heaven will be filled with bloodied Saints, Hell will resound with cowards that hid behind their religion, either violently or passively. The so-called passive Christian is part and parcel with the barbarian, including the current manifestation of Islamic worshipers of Satan

451 In 20 years 1 out of every 4 people on the planet will be a Muslim.
Christians are about 1 out of every 3.
Hindus 1 out of 8.
Buddhists 1 out of 20.
Every other religion is miniscule.

It's pretty much Islam vs Christianity vs Secularism. Those are the big 3.

We should work hard to demand religious freedom and religious pluralism in other countries. In countries we trade with. I'm fine if the convert to Christianity, or the become atheist, or become Buddhist. Anything but Islam.

452 We are in an age growing that is opposite of the Hippie days. They had some slack from all the wars. Slack is gone almost. You can count down the days.

453 Sorry--horseshit.

I don't doubt that there were embellishments and outright misrpresentations made. I was just amused of having told this Herculean tale, the chain of command thing was his big takeaway. I don't remember the details of the conversation he claimed were "giving orders," just that it seemed a creative interpretation at the time I read it.

454 Actually reading 445 comments showed me that there is a lot of thoughtfulness put into the comments.  The "turn Mecca into glass" were not as frequent.as I expected.

1. Steyn wrote America Alone and that pretty much covers the demographics. 
2. It is a little hard to bomb Mecca when you need their oil.
3. If there is any nuclear MAD fear by Muslims, that will be lost when the next one goes off.  I would not plan on living near a major city.
4. If politicians will grandstand and pout over cutting 1.5% of a budget train wreck and will not secure the borders, do you think they have the stomach to take out Iran?  They will pontificate until the Arabs take on Israel and then God help us all.
5. "Responsibility to Protect" is the next "Global Warming"  it is just crap political science instead of crap science science.  Obama will continue to thumb his nose at congress. He does not fear a constitutional crisis, he welcomes it.

I'm glad we took back the house, but unfortunately the parasites are killing the host.

455 ""Maybe we can work on some thorough displays of conventional defense - you know, like gunning down the charging hoards of fanatics and leaving no man standing - before we start leveling cities. Even a few mini-guns can really make a big impression if you bother to use them.""


Are we talking madison WI ,or the middle east?

456

Dressing up in costumes

Playing silly games

hiding out in tree tops

Shouting out rude names

It's a knock-out

If looks could kill they probably will

in games without frontiers

War without tears

457 General Napier told the Indian rajas:

You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

We can say something similar:

You say that it is your custom to kill those who insult Islam. Very well. We also have a custom: when men kill others over mere insults, we drop 2,000-lb. bombs on them and we vaporize. Have your riot; over it, my aircraft will patrol. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.

458 432...You gonna make them all pinkie swear they won't pray to Allah?

That may be the dumbest smart comment I've ever read. 

459 Option 2 and beyond for some time. Clear as day

460 Ok girls would you be more attracted to a Tea Party solider or a regular solider?

461 "Are we talking madison WI ,or the middle east?" What's the difference here?"

462 I must say that this has been a most constructive thread. We are paralyzed by PC groupthink IRL to overlook the core issue of the incompatibility of islam with the western way of life. Many here have given much thought to this. Whether the preference cascade ever comes to pass is immaterial. The important thing is for people to know that they do not think their dark thoughts alone.

463 The problem with the Born-Agains is they don't understand the just war concept. Give me some Medieval Catholics and another Crusade. Fuck-a-Bee and Bush don't understand that "turning the other cheek" , doesn't mean bending over an taking it up the ass.

Posted by: Mike H at April 01, 2011 08:00 PM (g3OU+)

You must not know many born-again Christians.  Neither Bush nor Huckabee (spit) represent their views.  The two are politicians--enough said.

I'd be willing to bet that our armed forces are made up of a lot of born-again Christians.  I'd also be willing to bet that many of the civilian born-agains are the ones who are cleaning out the gun stores in anticipation of the coming "zombie apocalypse."  Well, I know that at least one born-again is doing that and has been doing that since Mumbai.

Someone said that the Muslims might be planning attacks in the Heartland.  If so, it would be a strategic blunder as most heartland sorts would probably take the opportunity to "renovate" the local mosque.  But Islamic terrorists aren't long on strategic thinking so it's best to keep watch.

464 Well, all I know is that if we're all going out, now is the time to get those Christian Lamboutins I've been letching over, and to throw myself at all my fantasy boyfriends. See ya.

465

 The West has a lot to loose, the barbarians - not so much. Whats ours is theirs for the taking, and Islam is the vehicle.

Start at the ends, in Morocco and Indosnesia and work our way inward until islam is a cursed but only whispered creed, worshipped by 6th century sand crawlers and widowed old hags in the ruin of Mecca. If they can find it. Nukes and smart bombs alone wont do it, Not a chance. What effect does a modern weapon have on the religious rightousness of the local iman ? None.

Throw them from the minarets, then topple all.

 Christianity as in the West (but maybe not Asian and African Christianity) is neutered and modern eurocentric non-believers are even more compromised by the welfare state to worship their oppressors. The death of islam will come, by a force born and lead only by US.

466

Posted by: baldilocks at April 01, 2011 09:42 PM (T2/zQ)

Agree with most all of the above, but you need to shake the "someone said" intro because Youknowwhooski uses it for his straw dogs all the time and your arguments can stand up without that crutch.

As far as the Heartland attack strategy, we can only hope that they'll be that foolish since that is the game changer.

467

Why do you fight wars?  To win them; there is no other option.  What do you have to do to win wars?  You have to be stronger, more cunning, tougher than your opponent; you have to go to whatever level it takes to defeat them, so they no longer want to wage war against you (at least for a very long time, and even then the memory of their past defeat will give them pause).

There is no other way, as war has never been, nor will ever be a clean and completely noble thing; it is by it's nature untidy and bloody -- this that we're doing right now is a long defeat and will wind up costing more lives and instigating more suffering than if we had decided to win in the first place.

Since it will cost more lives and will resolve nothing, other than more war, can it really be considered humane?

468

Posted by: baldilocks at April 01, 2011 09:42 PM (T2/zQ)

Agree with most all of the above, but you need to shake the "someone said" intro because Youknowwhooski uses it for his straw dogs all the time and your arguments can stand up without that crutch.

The "someone" was upthread and I didn't feel like scrolling up to see who.  Who's youknowwhoski?  Fuck him in the squeakhole (surprise!)

469

I read now that women soldiers in Afghanistan are supposed to start wearing head scarves -- INSTEAD of a helmet! (Well, they're "strongly encouraged to).. Never thought it would come to this.

Although I'm sure it looks TOTALLY fierce...

 

470

 Who's youknowwhoski?  Fuck him in the squeakhole (surprise!)

Posted by: baldilocks at April 01, 2011 10:07 PM (T2/zQ) 

_{Why give him what he likes?}

471 About sustained jihad in America: apologists for Islam claim that only 5% of Muslims are "extremists." Well, let's take that guesstimate and turn it around: there is probably a larger percentage of Americans who love freedom and who are willing to fight for it and I would also guess that a goodly portion of these are born-again Christians who, somehow, got labeled as the problem when it comes to the push-back against jihad. Such Christians are more likely to believe what the Bible says and do not subscribe to the doctrines of the social "gospel."  Such will also not give a rat's about being called racist, bigoted Crusaders, either.

There's a reason that Obama singled out those who cling "bitterly" to their Bibles and to their guns.

472

483  Depending upon where and what they would attack in the Heartland, I'm pretty sure the situation could turn very, very nasty in a suprisingly short amount of time.  The cities, college towns (some of them), the coasts...there might be apologists there and the peace might (might) be kept, but out in the back of beyond?  That's a different story.

473

399

@303: "The Germans, Japanese, and Amerind tribes (with the exception of the Nez Perce and perhaps a few others) specifically targeted civilians and therefore sacrificed the rights of their own."

Japanese - certainly true in China, P.I., etc., but false with respect to US Â…

Posted by: Zombie EMPEROR Hirohito at April 01, 2011 08:32 PM (xy9wk)

 

American citizens interned by Japan faced a mortality rate about ten times higher than military POWs held by Germany.

 

Japan murdered 100k American nationals in the P.I. – then a US Territory, not unlike Pearl Harbor.

 

In turn, Japan had almost ALL of their 300k military occupation army in the P.I. “killed in action”. At least they armed combatants.

474

429

 But guess who gets a waiver?

Let me guess, the Presidential fleet?  Makes sense as those vehicles have armor plating comparable to tanks, but still.  This directive will just make all Fed vehicles 3-5x more expensive.  More taxpayer moolah down the drain, huzzah! 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 01, 2011 08:48 PM (muhWA)

 

3-5x more expensive – there is an effectively proportional relationship between $$$ and natural resources expended – to be green would be to go low-bid traditional econo car – low cost and low fuel consumption.

475

They need to be mocked. Not encouraged, as all of our fearless leaders continue to do. Stop with religion of peace allready. Submission is not peace. Bellow that from the bully pulpit.

476

1. We keep doing what we're doing. We fight the Bush way.

2. We recognize that the proper response to savagery and terror is savagery and terror, and we drop our illusions about being able to effect a good solution to this problem, and we begin revising our policy about bombing population centers. And we define a major terrorist attack as being a nuclear-level attack, inviting a nuclear response.

Ok Ace, I'll play.

One, you fall into a reactionary view - they do this- so-we must do that.

Two. Bush played poker with the jihadas and especially the europeons. That was a win. For then. If we could be so lucky now....go fish ?

Two, and more important, the proper response to savagery and terror ? None.

You do what you do. Should we require uninterupped oil supplies - we secure them. Should we require non- interference in freedon of religion - we negate authoritive voices against it, should we require freedom of the seas - we sink pirates who oppose it.

 Yours is not  an active voice.

 

477

1.  Secure our borders

2.  Drill our own oil

3.  Send troops to Isreal to help protect them

4.  Notify the muslim world that the next confirmed terrorist attack anywhere will result in destruction of Mecca, then Medina, etc.

Maybe that would put pressure on the leaders of Muslim countries, as well as muslims worldwide to start speaking out and controlling themselves.  If not, we should start deporting them and stop any aid to any of these countries. 

478 I'm not too concerned anymore about what happens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The best way to defend our nation against violent acts committed by  muslims in their war to reclaim the Caliphate and spread Islam is to guard our borders and increase surveillance upon muslims we have already mistakenly allowed among us. The best way to defend against Islamic terror, is not to kill terrorists, but to restrict their access to and movement among us.

We were not attacked on 9/11 because Alqaeda was in Afghanistan, we were attacked because Alqaeda was in the US.

479 That is why, Ace, you will always be frustrated, and others will look beyond this.

480 Vlad the Impaler managed to get the Turks to high tail it and stay away pretty effectively; Genghis Khan did a pretty good job of subduing both Afghanistan and Iran a long time ago...

481

But as this goes on I am going back to thinking those are expensive luxuries and I no longer wish to pay for such things

 

Ace. We will all be lucky to get out alive, or with our personal  creed, let alone worry about paying for it. . Get real, stop the North-Eastern protective class mentality and get real, your wishes and mine, are on the line. Yankees once had balls you know.

482

"The old law of war, you see, was a fragile thing, easily broken.  And when the enemy ignored it and some of our own people tried to mold it to do too much, it broke.  Now there's no law except for who is fastest, who is best armed and trained, who is most ruthless.  And when the enemy demonstrated the planet wasn't big enough for both of us and we demonstrated that it didn't necessarily have to contain both of us?  That's when--"

From Caliphate by Tom Kratman, p. 74.  Baen Books, New York, 2008.

483

4.  Notify the muslim world that the next confirmed terrorist attack anywhere will result in destruction of Mecca, then Medina, etc.

Maybe that would put pressure on the leaders of Muslim countries, as well as muslims worldwide to start speaking out and controlling themselves.  If not, we should start deporting them and stop any aid to any of these countries.

 

We could do that and explain

We have studied you. You have said to insulting  Islam it is to bring murder to other people(/anyone will do) That is your tradition. we have seen your tradition throughout the world  slaughtering of peoples and their children from africa to russia, you chose to kill children(Belsan) and women and  men not even compatants but citizens of those countries. You blame innocents for their murder, not your sin/crime but transfer the guilt to them. (sick)? All in the name of offense.

Our tradition/justice  is to kill those  who kill OUR innocents. and to destroy your ability to reak anymore havoc. You must make a decision. it is survival and prosper. moderate or reap the wind. We will fight mercilessly we will come to your city and knock down your mosques. if you do not stop ,your home , next Mecca,  Then we will blame you as it should be because You would not see the faults of your own way. and you chose to be held to a religion that will not allow for other to chose their lives, G-d or destiny. you chose to put on your yoke , and to make us assume the same yoke.

sorry i'm sick of trying to assume a position of fairness when every.fkn.thing. seems.to be an insult and a reason for them to murder. I don't want to assume anylonger that treating them with a kind hand, and blaming some supposed RARE  Radical muslim for everything when I see very few Moderates speak against this behavior.

also it would be nice if the media would glorify give more airtime to those Few  that speak of the needed moderation in Islam. Like Jasser ,Gabriella (forgot her last name). ali kirsi? Make them  Heros . minimize and heckle those Bitter clinging: hitlerish, muslims that think murdering anyone that doesn't agree with them as what they are ,Monsters.

drill oil here, build nuclear, no more visas to Muslims until they get their fellows under control.

484 Well, you can pull a tooth by tying a string to a door and SLAMMING it, FAST.

Or you can pull a tooth gently by tying a string to it and hanging a five pound weight on the other end. And waiting. . . .

485

i'm pretty full of hyperbole tonight. I 'm pretty raw from the murder for offense shit.

apologies.

486 Ace said :It wasn't just that they delivered justice -- justice could be more cheaply delivered via massive bombs dropped on cities and towns. They also delivered something finer than justice. Compassion, mercy.

I wouldn't have chosen that course -- but I was glad that cooler (or, warmer) heads chose it for me.

But as this goes on I am going back to thinking those are expensive luxuries and I no longer wish to pay for such things.

I felt no joy when we struck back. But i certainly wanted to but the fear of US into them so they wouldn't again slaughter 3000 innocent people doing nothing more nefarious than going to work.

And i see they still party and hand out candy after each succesful murder.

i also see a few of the countries as Turkey turning back to extremism, What will we have after all of the upheavel now with Polls showing they want sharia?

487 Stuck Mojo said it all.....I speak peace when peace is spoken, But I speak war when your hate is provoking,

488 Not having read all the comments, about half, I must say, that abortion thing is denial.  You know you have to kill a significant amount of these crazies to make them stop this shit, but just can't quite wrap your mind around that.  So what is the conservative on economic issues supposed to do here?  Propose abortion!! It's sorta clean hands, is it not?  It's legal, safe and rare and all.  We do it all the time, right.  So it's somehow nicer than saying out loud something along the lines of, "They are raising they're children to be programmed killers in the name of Allah, so however bad this sounds, we have to kill them too or it NEVER ends."

Hello callateral damage.  I was entertained by the coversation about Christian warfare.  Really?  Did you READ the old testament???  God was not nearly as persnicky as the Christians letting us all know His thoughts in 2011.  Might want to check that backstory.

Or as Reagan once said, "We win, they lose."  We will decide one of those two options.  I'm not betting on our odds. I think we'll eventually win, but the problem? We'll win AFTER the civil war in this country because of the pansies who will not let us win until we get that pesky little arguement cleared up.  But hey, I'm a pessimist.  It could work out.

489 I still hold to Ann Coulter's idea of dealing with Islam:  Kill all the leadership, and convert the rest to Christianity.

490

491

We have allowed people within our own countries here in the West to turn this into another Vietnam -- but far worse, because it potentially covers more of the globe and concerns a group that make the Viet Cong look like paragons of restraint and civility.  It is going to have severe repercussions on us, but now there is probably nothing left to do but to pull out or keep wasting men and treasure on that long defeat I spoke of up earlier.  We will never respond militarily as we should, and we will not let anyone else respond as they should (and by this I mean the entire West, not just America, although America is a part of it).

It appears as though we have chosen our lot; let's not make our troops pay unjustly for our choice. At this point the only way the West has any chance is a united front, the draft, increasing terrorist attacks and war without mercy -- I am afraid we no longer have the stomach for that.

492 Muslim massacres? Never heard of them.

493 "They wish to make war, but they want to do so insulated from the horrors of war. They're being infantilized by permitting to choose this course, war without consequences. " - Ace. EXACTLY correct sir. We have exacerbated exactly this problem for over 30 years running now. I think we all see the fruit our 'mercy' bears...

494

What would Sun-Tzu do?

I'm paraphrasing here but it would be something like this:

There is no substitute for victory.

495 also it would be nice if the media would glorify give more airtime to those Few  that speak of the needed moderation in Islam. Like Jasser ,Gabriella (forgot her last name). ali kirsi? Make them  Heros . minimize and heckle those Bitter clinging: hitlerish, muslims that think murdering anyone that doesn't agree with them as what they are ,Monsters.

--willow



One thing: Brigitte Gabriel and Ayaan Hirsi Ali aren't Muslims.  Gabriel was born a Christian and her family immigrated from Ethiopia to Lebanon.  Ali is an apostate and an atheist.  Both women use pseudonyms.

496 Oh yeah and Ali was born in Somalia.  I think it's interesting that both women have roots in Africa--a continent which has been ravished and continues to be ravished by Islam.

497

Personally, I'm all for us carpetbombing Mecca, Medina, and all of their mosques with as much bacon grease, pork rinds, and pigs' feet as we can find.

When the men start praying in the streets, do the same thing.  Make them all as "unclean" as possible.  Instead of pat-downs at airports, require people to eat a piece of bacon before going through security; takes care of terrorists and vegans at the same time.....

Teresa, only someone from Texas would come up with a brilliant solution like this.  Two birds, one stone.

498

Oh yeah and Ali was born in Somalia.  I think it's interesting that both women have roots in Africa--a continent which has been ravished and continues to be ravished by Islam.

Baldilocks, you would think that Obama, with his African heritage and vaunted Christian faith would be sympathetic to African Christians.  But alas no, the Christian cover was only there to get him elected.

499

Meh. 4/1 is as good a day to nuke Mecca as any. Okay, 2/29, maybe. Not that they even use our calendar.

Though I believe all computers are using our calendar.  Can't really say 'beware the ides of march' if it happens in Feb, but then again this is not ancient Rome.

500

That strategy wouldn't require eventually nuking mecca.

If you want to get rid of the problem they won't need Mecca after it.

501 Yeah, but remember how Catholics reacted when the Pakistani minister was murdered?

502

We're still at war, which means we need a clear understanding of goals, objectives, and mission. My understanding of the general goals are as follows, in this order:

1. Defense against terror attacks.

2. Inclusion of those who wish to join the civilized world.

It's constraining as all get-out. So the choice is between (a) deal with the constraints, or (b) abandon the second goal and deal with the consequences.

The Bush way (a) is harder and will take longer, but it's all-around better.

503 Take the Black Rock, put a chain on it, and make it a doorstop for the new World Trade Center  For the bathroom.  The humiliation must be constant ... classless, petty behavior to our own culture, but the antidote to their's.

504

I can't believe I missed this thread when it was going strong.  Sigh... 

I'm glad to see this being talked about.  We must talk about this kind of thing to make it more real, and seem more feasilbe, in peoples' minds.   In my own little sphere, the number of people who feel any sympathy toward the muz is shrinking day by day.  Slowly, people are learning that it's OK to talk about the unfortunate things that must be done to solve the muslim problem.

There isn't a very large contingent at this point who are ready to go the lengths I personally advocate, but the muslims are gaining enemies, not friends, each day that passes.  One day, hopefully before it is too late, a majority (or large plurality) will finally see that ugly, brutal thinsg must be done to save civilization.  Once that happens, it will finally be possible to push aside the limp wristed, hand wringing do-gooders and bring about a solution to the muslim problem, hopefully once and for all.

 

505

Baldilocks, you would think that Obama, with his African heritage and vaunted Christian faith would be sympathetic to African Christians.  But alas no, the Christian cover was only there to get him elected.

Posted by: Decaf at April 02, 2011 09:19 AM (3+xlM)

He is as willfully ignorant of the African, Christian and Islamic history as he is of all other history--including that of socialism/Marxism.

And any who knew the least bit about actual Christianity ("There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28; KJV) wrt Trinity United Church of "Christ" (Black Liberation "Theology") knew that he had been fed false doctrine for twenty years.

506

Brigitte Gabriel and Ayaan Hirsi Ali aren't Muslims

Baldilocks, drats, You're correct they spoke of that and the  treatment and fear they lived under. Hirsi  was related to the Submission film van Gohg  (assasinated )did and threatened  - fatwad .

Thank you for the heads up,  hangs head in shame .

507 508 Stuck Mojo said it all.....I speak peace when peace is spoken, But I speak war when your hate is provoking,

Posted by: MissTammy at April 02, 2011 12:45 AM (BebB7)

best song ever.

508 526 Take the Black Rock, put a chain on it, and make it a doorstop for the new World Trade Center  For the bathroom.  The humiliation must be constant ... classless, petty behavior to our own culture, but the antidote to their's.

Posted by: Cincinnatus at April 02, 2011 10:12 AM (1abMg)

or in the basement deli as a cutting block for the pulled pork.

509 which brings us back to why Libya. of course it is moral and righteous to save people if possible. But that could not have been the reason, and we have to ask why not Somalia , Nigeria, Ethiopia and on and on..which peoples have been suffering for  years! anyway Islam is a scourge, I cannot understand  people wanting to be in such a murderous religion. and i see no solution for the worlds peoples.

510 Hirsi  was related to the Submission film van Gohg  (assasinated )did and threatened  - fatwad .

Thank you for the heads up,  hangs head in shame .

Posted by: willow at April 02, 2011 11:07 AM (h+qn

No need for shame!

Yeah, Theo van Gogh (Vincent's nephew) directed it and Ali wrote the screenplay, IIRC.  When van Gogh was murdered (butchered, to be specific), the jihadi that killed him stuck a threatening note to his body.  The note said that Ali was next.  That's why she fled the Netherlands to the US.

511  The note said that Ali was next.  That's why she fled the Netherlands to the US.

Posted by: baldilocks at April 02, 2011 11:22 AM (T2/zQ)

Ali has an amazing story of fighting this despotic religion for decades, she puts to shame (lie)our supposed concerned feminists in the west.

512 sorry for a decade*

513 Some observations.

Every single capitol city on the planet has been either occupied or visited by some form of destruction.

London by the Blitz, Washington, D.C. was occupied and burned by the British.  Moscow occupied by Napoleon and repeatedly by savage forces from Asia.  Rome was sacked.  Tokyo firebombed and occupied.  Berlin ransacked and raped, Paris too submitted to occupation.  Peking too had a period of foreign occupation.

So every major player has had a period of foreign occupation.

EXCEPT the Hejaz, EXCEPT MEDINA and MECCA.

And don't think that fact hasn't traction within the world of mohammad.

Medina and Mecca never heard the boots of Christians tramping round the black rock.  Medina never was encircled by Christians or foreigners.

That's understood by them as DIVINE ratification of their religious superiority, and what's more, as their own religious AUTHENTICITY.

You guys want to end this thing, then you MUST go where it all originated from, and you must reduce their religious pretensions to dust.

514 Bush got us into wars that he did not want to win. Now B+rry does the same. No American soldier should have to give their life when our enemies lives are spared.

515 It's true that in the long term, by making war so safe for out enemies and their societies that support them, we are prolonging the death and destruction.

Imagine if we fought WWII with a promise the war wouldn't harm any Nazi or Imperial civilians.  I'm sure Hitler would have appreciated that as he hid among civilians from then on.

Will a GOP candidate make this case?  I think a lot of Americans are open to the idea, if it's presented sanely.

516 as a kid I always wondered how all the docile mild mannered indian born hindus I knew became bloodthirsty when discussing muslims. especially after being fed a pc education here. after 9/11 I fully understood. we have to hunt down the leaders of that massacre even if they are imams and kill them over and over and demolish the mosques.

517

EXCEPT the Hejaz, EXCEPT MEDINA and MECCA.

What about Brasilia?

518 Bush chose to fight a kinder, compassionate war. Carrying out socialist and progressive experiments in two of the biggest shitholes in the world.

The military and taxpayers paid, and are still paying the price for his ignorance.

There's nothing to admire or laud, there.

519 We are in a religious war. It will not end until we convert or Muslims accept, as Catholics were forced to, that their writ will not run the Earth. Forcing Catholicism to admit that every knee must not bow to the Pope did not require obliterating the Sistine Chapel, and this will not require obliterating Mecca. That did require millions dead (10 millions in in 30 Year's War alone). This war will last for decades more. Whole peoples will be annihilated. The world will be transformed beyond our ken. And this is different from the past how?

520 Now if we're talking about killing them anyway, why not really push abortion for them?
Posted by: ace at April 01, 2011 06:00 PM (nj1bB)

I'll be honest. While I can sympathize with the OP on a gut level, I found this comment to be absolutely disgusting. You want to punish innocent unborn children for the crimes of their parents? This isn't collateral damage. It's not even genocide because genocide is indiscriminate and you at least occasionally bag someone who had it coming. It's liberalism, and tbh I find this "final solution" far worse than anything the muslims do. If it got to the point where something like this is the only solution to preserving our existence, then our existence is not worth preserving.

521

Bush's position I think, is basically this:

The people of say, North Korea, are oppressed, and just beacuse the tinpot tyrant who terrorizes them launches a nuke at us, does not mean they should be nuked, because they are just innocent victimized people yearning to be free or some such. So we won't nuke them.

My position is this - power comes from the people. The liberal philosophy of human equality and individual sovereignity is descriptive, not perscriptive. It simply is.

Kim Jong Il's (to continue using NK as an example) power flows from the people of North Korea. He is not some super-ninja with x-ray vision and sub-zero breath. He's not even very tall. And he's old and probably can't take a punch very well anymore.

The crackpot has no noteworthy power except the power he wields by commanding the people of North Korea.

The people of North Korea enable Kim Jong Il to do whatever he does with their collective resources by tolerating his rule of them. They are morally culpable and responsible for anything the crackpot does. If they did not endorse what he was doing, they should not have allowed it to be done on their backs, and in their name.

At the moment Kim Jong launches nukes at Hawaii, is there an active revolt in his country against him? No? Well then in that sense, there is no such thing as a civillian. Nukes away.

If the North Koreans don't want to be nuked, then they should not have put a crackpot in charge of them, and then build nukes for him, and watched idle while he launches them about the globe.

Since the power of the government and sole legitimacy emmanates from the populace, the people are responsible for the acts of the government they choose to accept.

522

<i>Forcing Catholicism to admit that every knee must not bow to the Pope did not require obliterating the Sistine Chapel, and this will not require obliterating Mecca. That did require millions dead (10 millions in in 30 Year's War alone).</i>

Forcing Catholicism to admit that every knee must not bow to the Pope required Christians (some with very little theological deviation), to fight it.

Had the Turk and the Mohameddans come to teach Catholicism that lesson, it may only have strengthened the Pope's leadership over Christendom as it united against a common 'other' enemy.

To the extent that the Turk did come, the Catholics did ward him off. The protestants did not get busy until the that had largely stopped, and/or at least, the protestants got most busy in the places furthest from that threat.

523 I have come here to chew bubblegum and burn Korans... and I am all out of bubblegum.Äþ²¨Ã×ÄÈ»éÉ´£¬Äþ²¨»éÉ´£¬Äþ²¨»éÉ´³ö×⣬Äþ²¨»éÉ´¶¨ÖÆ

524 You have to terrorize the terrorists so badly that they can't stop peeing their pants every time they hear a car backfire. It saddens me that we are playing with our soldiers lives. They volunteered to protect our country from all aggressions, not to be part of some cockamamie action around the world tip toeing around the locals sensibilities where there is no sense, only a culture of oppression and death.