Ace of Spades HQ

March 14, 2011

Another Explosion Rocks Japan Nuke Plant
— Ace

This is reactor number two. The first explosion hit reactor number one.

: A new explosion at a stricken nuclear power plant hit Japan on Monday as it raced to avert a reactor meltdown after a quake- tsunami disaster that is feared to have killed more than 10,000 people.
Searchers found 2,000 bodies just in the northeastern region of Miyagi...

Below is video of the tsunami wave hitting a marina in California. A full ocean away and it is still strong enough to overturn boats.

Posted by: Ace at 03:15 PM | Comments (271)
Post contains 97 words, total size 1 kb.

1 What next- frogs? Or even worse, the UN....

Posted by: Museisluse at March 14, 2011 03:19 PM (xrmna)

2 This is the third explosion, second one today. I am assuming that this was at the "secondary containment" again.

That is all three of the units that were operating at the time of the event.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:20 PM (M9Ie6)

3 OH MY GAWD! A NUKLEAR EXPLOSION killed 10,000 people! Well, we better get rid of them things. I can see a market for WHALE OIL LAMPS again. Glad I saved some.

Posted by: Fiftycal at March 14, 2011 03:20 PM (Deems)

4
2,000 killed by the nuclear meltdown?

That spells the end of nuclear power production in America.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2011 03:22 PM (7+pP9)

5 I'm still waiting for religious leaders to tell me why God is punishing the Japs or are they still working on God's ideal tax rate for me?

Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 14, 2011 03:23 PM (EiH7n)

6 They were saying on Fox (via video from Japan) that a pipe may have broken this time.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:25 PM (pchXj)

7 882.7uSv

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:26 PM (ZbLJZ)

8 Pretty impressive watching it make its way through the San Francisco Bay. You can see the city in upper right the background. For those not familiar with the area, here's a Google map to help you get your bearings.

Posted by: kathysaysso at March 14, 2011 03:27 PM (ZtwUX)

9 The explosion caused the pressure inside the wessle to go down, meaning major breach of vessel. They are preparing/thinking about abort.
The containment vessel has been breached or thought to be, extent unknown

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 03:27 PM (3OCZw)

10 Pressure suppressor, possible explosion in the pressure suppressor.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:28 PM (ZbLJZ)

11 That link, above, is from the 2nd explosion not the 3rd.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 03:28 PM (1fB+3)

12 Ok, they are continuing water injection. Evacuation is for non-essential personnel.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:29 PM (ZbLJZ)

13
Those fatality data (10K & 2K) is not attributed to the troubles at the nuke plants.

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 03:30 PM (/ebqR)

Pressure suppressor, possible explosion in the pressure suppressor.

Gonna need some antifreeze, better maker it Prestone and a set of 30 weight Ball Bearings.

Posted by: Fletch at March 14, 2011 03:31 PM (7w/Pt)

15 Okay Pressure vessel not containment vessel - got it, suppresion area inside containment vessle

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 03:31 PM (3OCZw)

16
Are there any fatalities connected to the nuke explosions/fires/radiation?

I haven't heard of any, yet.

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 03:31 PM (waTiq)

17 Evacuation is for non-essential personnel. Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:29 PM (ZbLJZ) "worker #3" --I'm essential? The fuck you say

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 14, 2011 03:31 PM (7wmOW)

Gottried fired you say? Great cause if I have to listen to that screaching voice one more time I would have flown over a hunters blind!! I bet the Honey Badger would have torn his throat out.

Posted by: Aflac Duck at March 14, 2011 03:31 PM (oNphh)

19 Um, that vid was the most underwhelming tsunami footage I've ever seen. I've created boat wakes more powerful than that. Are you sure that's the one you were looking for?

Posted by: ErikW at March 14, 2011 03:32 PM (OIVx9)

20 Vic, you around? Looks like we get to check my bet that the giant concrete lid will blow off before the primary containment is breached.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:32 PM (pchXj)

21 The only reason they're keeping some people in there to continue pumping is because if they don't. . . the entire thing is going to melt into a pile of liquid uranium. The situation is very serious if they only did a partial evacuation. . . I wonder who drew the short straws on water pumping duty?

Posted by: alexander at March 14, 2011 03:32 PM (1BToE)

22 FORE

Posted by: sir golfsalot at March 14, 2011 03:33 PM (ph9vn)

23 I wonder who drew the short straws on water pumping duty? Posted by: alexander at March 14, 2011 07:32 PM (1BToE) I think his name is " Meso Fucked"

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 14, 2011 03:33 PM (7wmOW)

24 18
Are there any fatalities connected to the nuke explosions/fires/radiation?

I haven't heard of any, yet.

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 07:31 PM (waTiq)

The crane operator bought it in the first explosion. I think they listed a couple as "missing", which, in an area that small is usually a bad sign.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:33 PM (QgI7g)

25 So this is the number 3 reactor explosion that we already kneew about, not a new one at the number two reactor.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:34 PM (M9Ie6)

Posted by: sir golfsalot at March 14, 2011 07:33 PM (ph9vn)

He likes big putz and he can't not lie.

Posted by: garrett at March 14, 2011 03:34 PM (7w/Pt)

27 The janitor has been promoted to senior management and is now mopping up.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 14, 2011 03:34 PM (EiH7n)

28 #2

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:34 PM (pchXj)

29 This time they're saying broken pipe or something around the pressure vessel.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:35 PM (pchXj)

30 Summary from BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

Posted by: Y-not at March 14, 2011 03:35 PM (pW2o8)

31 Listening to translation of TEPCO press conference ...

Explosion heard in suppression pool. Pressure began to drop in suppression pool. Water continues to be injected, workers not engaged in that activity are being moved away. Work continues at unit #1.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:35 PM (ZbLJZ)

32 Wow!

Even Chernobyl didn't kill 2,000 people outright.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2011 03:35 PM (7+pP9)

33 27 So this is the number 3 reactor explosion that we already kneew about, not a new one at the number two reactor.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:34 PM (M9Ie6)

No, this is a new one. Eh... do you need the pressure suppressor?

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:35 PM (QgI7g)

34 They've said radioactive water. They're counting on primary containment now.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:36 PM (pchXj)

Technicians are battling to stabilise a third reactor at a quake-stricken Japanese nuclear plant that has been rocked by a second blast in three days.

Sea water is being pumped into reactor 2 at the Fukushima Daiichi plant after its fuel rods were fully exposed twice.

International nuclear watchdogs said there was no sign of a meltdown but one minister said a melting of rods was "highly likely" to be happening.

...

On Monday a hydrogen blast at the Fukushima Daiichi's reactor 3 injured 11 people and destroyed the building surrounding it. The explosion was felt 40km (25 miles) away and sent a huge column of smoke into the air.

It followed a blast at reactor 1 on Saturday.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said there were signs that the fuel rods were melting in all three reactors.

Posted by: Y-not at March 14, 2011 03:36 PM (pW2o8)

36 No, this is a *new* explosion at unit #2

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:36 PM (ZbLJZ)

37 Sooo. Who said that the containment vessel won'/can't be breached. They are getting very close to proving that wrong, I hope not.
The what ifs have just grown by a multiple x 4 ... 4 reactors back to back - What would the total worst release from all 4 at same time, recalculate

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (3OCZw)

38 Good thing we got that global warming thing fixed. How are the homeless doing?

Posted by: Krugman: NOBEL at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (fy8R6)

39 Let me be clear, the situation in Egypt is serious and we're closing monitoring it. (Top men. Top men...)

Posted by: Pres'ent Lacksack at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (25EzS)

40 Shep has his Katrina two. Wonder when the reports on nukular cannibalism will start? Can CHUD be blamed on Bush?

Posted by: Frank G at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (4X0aT)

41 To clarify, this is the third explosion at the facility, at the number two nuclear reactor. I'm not sure of the fuel composition, but it appears that significant pressure has been released, and not because the core has cooled down any.

Posted by: alexander at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (1BToE)

Even Chernobyl didn't kill 2,000 people outright.

Those washed ashore today.

Posted by: garrett at March 14, 2011 03:37 PM (7w/Pt)

43 The Sierra Club has convened an emergency celebratory circle-jerk.

Posted by: ErikW at March 14, 2011 03:39 PM (OIVx9)

44 No immediate evidence of drastic event at this time, workers being removed out of caution.

This explosion different than the previous hydrogen explosion ... blast heard near pressure vessel ... parameters checked ... pressure was falling ... indicating some damage to the suppression pool. However other parameters have not changed greatly and the water level did not change. Still attempting to determine what is going on, evacuating workers out of caution.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:39 PM (ZbLJZ)

45 Vic, you around? Looks like we get to check my bet that the giant concrete lid will blow off before the primary containment is breached.

Yeah, I'm around but this is an old report from the number 3 unit. The latest from WNN on this unit says they are still feeding it and they assume it is stable because they have no level indication but the other parameters were stable.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:40 PM (M9Ie6)

46 I like nuke juice.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 14, 2011 03:40 PM (EiH7n)

47 Give me another 4 years and I will lower the sea's some more! no tsunami will ever happen again.
Vote for me and punish your tsunami enemy!

Posted by: Obumbler 2012 campaign at March 14, 2011 03:40 PM (ph9vn)

48 We need somebody to pop a balloon behind Shemp Smiff and watch him shit his pants on live TV.

Posted by: Huckleberry at March 14, 2011 03:41 PM (fqOyi)

49 Some increase in radioactivity. (not quantified by Tepco exec).

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:41 PM (ZbLJZ)

50 >>Yeah, I'm around but this is an old report from the number 3 unit.

Actually, it's a new report concerning the #2 Unit.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 03:41 PM (1fB+3)

51
So as far as we know the fatalities are few and the radiation is not endangering populated areas?

Sounds like things could've been a lot worse.

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 03:41 PM (waTiq)

52 So when will Obama issue the next Nuke Plant Building permit?.... Sometime after he closes all US operating plants

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 03:41 PM (3OCZw)

53 FYI, levels of containment:

--the cladding on the fuel itself (the rods covering the fuel)
--the pressure vessel (looks like a giant water heater)
--primary containment (big concrete bulb thing)
--secondary containment (square building)

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:42 PM (pchXj)

54 When is the media going to come to grips with the fact we'rr talkong closer to 100,000 dead than 10,000? One town ALONE lost about 10,000 souls.

Posted by: CoolCzech at March 14, 2011 03:42 PM (kUaEF)

55 I am listening to a live press conference on NHK World. As other parameters remained steady and only the pressure gauge showed any change, there is the possibility the pressure gauge was damaged in the explosion.

Around 50 remain on site.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:43 PM (ZbLJZ)

56 54 So when will Obama issue the next Nuke Plant Building permit?.... Sometime after he closes all US operating plants

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 07:41 PM (3OCZw)

I would assume as soon as the gulf is fully opened to drilling with no restrictions

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 03:43 PM (FIDMq)

57 Actually, it's a new report concerning the #2 Unit.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 07:41 PM (1fB+3)

That linked article only mentions units 1 and 3.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:43 PM (M9Ie6)

58 I think it would be hilarious if right now a crowd of Tokyo residents came up behind Shep and started chanting "HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP..."

Posted by: Serious Cat at March 14, 2011 03:43 PM (bAySe)

59 "the pressure control area may have experienced some kind of problem" ... the Japan official just said, on CNN

not sure if that was taped ... probably

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 03:44 PM (D6qOQ)

^{Posted by: CoolCzech at March 14, 2011 07:42 PM (kUaEF)}

I'll go with 100,001, Bob.

Posted by: garrett to coolczech's left in contestant's row at March 14, 2011 03:44 PM (7w/Pt)

61 "Pressure inside the pressure vessel remained steady, this is pressure in containment vessel".

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:45 PM (ZbLJZ)

62 When is the media going to come to grips with the fact we'rr talkong closer to 100,000 dead than 10,000? One town ALONE lost about 10,000 souls.

Posted by: CoolCzech at March 14, 2011 07:42 PM (kUaEF)

Thats what I keep thinking.... its going to be massive. Those pictures are unreal.

Posted by: Jackwagon at March 14, 2011 03:45 PM (ph9vn)

I like the vid of the wave coming into CA. It's hard to really "enjoy" these massive natural phenomena because of the human toll, but they are a fascinating part of natural history.

Early OT, Althouse is promising vid of "Indoctrinating Children" from today in Madison. She will be putting up the post "soon".

Posted by: Lincolntf at March 14, 2011 03:45 PM (xMT+4)

Even Chernobyl didn't kill 2,000 people outright.

Those washed ashore today.

Posted by: garrett at March 14, 2011 07:37 PM (7w/Pt)

I know. I'm just here for the melodrama.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2011 03:45 PM (7+pP9)

65 Geraldo will do a live shot in a yellow radiation suit while standing in front of a Toyota Prius.

Posted by: Cicero at March 14, 2011 03:45 PM (QKKT0)

66 >>That linked article only mentions units 1 and 3.

Ace's article is crap, try this one (via y-not)

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 03:46 PM (1fB+3)

67 Press conference is discussion explosion in unit #2 suppression pool.

Half of fuel rods exposed in unit #2.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:46 PM (ZbLJZ)

68 63 "Pressure inside the pressure vessel remained steady, this is pressure in containment vessel".

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:45 PM (ZbLJZ)

What does that mean? That the explosion just blew off the roof like the other two?

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:46 PM (QgI7g)

69 Water level is increasing in unit #2

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:47 PM (ZbLJZ)

70 67 Geraldo will do a live shot in a yellow radiation suit while standing in front of a Toyota Prius.

Posted by: Cicero at March 14, 2011 07:45 PM (QKKT0)

You know, if they have a meltdown that gets Geraldo I'd consider that a wash.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:47 PM (QgI7g)

71 FoxNews.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:48 PM (pchXj)

72 21 Um, that vid was the most underwhelming tsunami footage I've ever seen.

Posted by: ErikW at March 14, 2011 07:32 PM (OIVx9)

Yes, unless one realizes that the event that caused it occurred 7000 miles away.

Posted by: baldilocks at March 14, 2011 03:48 PM (T2/zQ)

73 Is this the 1st time #2 blew?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 03:48 PM (qIHlG)

74 OK this one is more clear. There is a third explosion, this one inside containment at the number 2 unit.

http://tinyurl.com/6zvhhqt

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:48 PM (M9Ie6)

75 Wow the press was getting serious at the pinheads and started really pressing them for bull shit free information and then presser over, now you go

Posted by: melvin at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (3OCZw)

76 Explanation right now on NHK.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (pchXj)

77 Those Japanese are such neat freaks. All washing up on shore...

Posted by: CoolCzech at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (kUaEF)

78 Geraldo is one of the select few people in the world that make me root for a disaster to occur, taking him with it.

Posted by: Doc at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (jGXQI)

79 My prayers for a mate are finally being answered. Praise Allah.

Posted by: Godzilla at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (1fB+3)

80
I'm not so sure the fatalities will be much higher than tens-of-thousands of Libyans killed by Qaddafi.

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (waTiq)

81 67 Geraldo will do a live shot in a yellow radiation suit while standing in front of a Toyota Prius.

Posted by: Cicero at March 14, 2011 07:45 PM (QKKT0)

I can see that happening, with a geiger counter just clicking away

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 03:49 PM (FIDMq)

82 "Radiation tops legal limit"? I wonder what that means, exactly.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:51 PM (QgI7g)

83 I am just "live commenting" the press conference. Not trying to figure it out. Yet.

They aren't sure that anything is actually broken by the explosion if the pressure gauge was broken by the explosion.

Suppression pool usually has 3 atm pressue. Went down to 1 atm.

Pressure in the dry well has not dropped.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:51 PM (ZbLJZ)

When I saw the first videos during the early morning hours of the 11th I figured Japan was looking at 20-100K dead. Tsunamis are horrifying in distributing death and destruction a long way.

This is the second once-a-millenium tsunami in the last six years. The megatsunami suddenly doesn't seem so impossible. When Cumbre Vieja breaks in half, I'm going to Howie-in-the-Hills.

Posted by: Beagle at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (sOtz/)

85 All the MFM will take away from this is,nuclear power bad,AGW somehow responsible.

Posted by: steevy at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (nDZeZ)

86 Even Chernobyl didn't kill 2,000 people outright.

Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2011 07:35 PM (7+pP9)

I wish I had linkable info but one of my Dad's firefighter buddies said he was involved in a very peripheral way with Chernobyl and he says that hundreds of thousands died within weeks of the accident.

Posted by: ErikW at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (OIVx9)

87 67 Can we get Geraldo do on scene reporting?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (pixJg)

88 3130 uSv

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (QgI7g)

89 Geraldo with a GM logo on his nuke suit.

Posted by: SarahsWithMe2012 at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (MWXXs)

90
btw, speaking of missing people...

any news on Michelle Malkin's cousin in WA?

Posted by: Gov Soothsayer at March 14, 2011 03:52 PM (waTiq)

91 84 Radiation is breaking the law!!

Posted by: steevy at March 14, 2011 03:53 PM (nDZeZ)

92 90 3130 uSv

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 07:52 PM (QgI7g)

is there a simple equation to turn that into rads?

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (FIDMq)

93 Is "he's playing golf" the new euphemism for "he's sucking cock in some undisclosed bathhouse"?

Where's all the footage of the National Embarrassment playing golf, anyway? What's his handicap?

I call bullshit. He ain't golfing.

Posted by: kathysaysso at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (ZtwUX)

94 Are 800 and 900 radioactive whatsit units a lot?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (qIHlG)

95 Explosion at a nuke plant? Honey Badger roasts marshmallows on the flames.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (CdX98)

96 94 90 3130 uSv

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 07:52 PM (QgI7g)

is there a simple equation to turn that into rads?

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 07:54 PM (FIDMq)

Isn't it .01? I don't know.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (QgI7g)

97 Isn't this article about yesterday's (our time) explosion?

Both this and the article Y-Not linked only mention two explosions, which we already knew about.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (Vyomq)

98 I wish I had linkable info but one of my Dad's firefighter buddies said he was involved in a very peripheral way with Chernobyl and he says that hundreds of thousands died within weeks of the accident.

He is FOS. I have actually talked to the operators at Chernobyl and there were not that many deaths near term or long term.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (M9Ie6)

99 Have Mace Wendu place all 3 reactors under arrest.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 03:54 PM (qIHlG)

100

Shep and Geraldo need a bunch of bananas to get their Geiger readings up.

(seriously, bananas are high in K emitters)

Posted by: Huckleberry at March 14, 2011 03:55 PM (fqOyi)

101 "hundreds of thousands died within weeks of the accident."

" For instance, the figure of 125,000 said to be those already dead from Chernobyl was in fact the number of deaths during the period 1988-94 from all causes in the area affected by the accident. A figure of 10,000 deaths in the 600,000 people who helped in the clean-up represents the normal death rate over five years in any comparable population. The most likely explanation of the media's irresponsible propagation of mythology is laziness, simple repetition from other media, combined with a relish for disasters and conspiracy theories that sell "news".

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 03:55 PM (ZbLJZ)

102
76

Ah, OK, thanks.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 14, 2011 05:43 PM (Vyomq)

103 Ace's reactor seems to be back online

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 05:45 PM (FIDMq)

104 Is everyone in California still gonna die?

Posted by: Shep Smith at March 14, 2011 05:46 PM (qIHlG)

105 Uh, the 2000 dead are not from the nuke plant, they are from the tidal wave???

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 14, 2011 05:48 PM (mSwvC)

106 The French disaster crew just arrived and surrendered.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 05:50 PM (qIHlG)

107 107 The reactor is more of a financial loss than anything.I doubt they will directly cause any deaths.What we are seeing is the anti nuke forces not letting a good crisis go to waste.

Posted by: steevy at March 14, 2011 05:51 PM (nDZeZ)

108 An update on the stop-gap CR situation:

The most interesting thing is that Treasury and the rest of the Obama Administration is rooting for a shutdown so as to "deescalate" this confrontation. As for the GOP House members, the number of "no" votes is rising but some members are playing coy right now. The key word being bandied about is compromise. Compromise means they get to move-on but (1) Hal Rogers gets to negotiate it and (2) it likely won't be the fully $61.5B if they take that route. They will likely debate this tomorrow in a conference meeting to be held tomorrow morning.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at March 14, 2011 05:51 PM (UO6+e)

109 If the 2000 dead were from the reactor we would hear the cheers of the anti-nuke left circle the earth like the tidal wave.

Posted by: Huckleberry at March 14, 2011 05:52 PM (fqOyi)

110 110 Somebody needs to aquaint the US public with financial reality.The prezdent certainly ain't going to do it.

Posted by: steevy at March 14, 2011 05:53 PM (nDZeZ)

111 Can we drop 50 Cent (that rapper guy) in one of those reactors?
Wonder if his "hoes" will miss him?

Posted by: Double Ply at March 14, 2011 05:54 PM (ezdtY)

112 106 Is everyone in California still gonna die?

Posted by: Shep Smith at March 14, 2011 09:46 PM (qIHlG)

At some point, yeah.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 05:55 PM (QgI7g)

113 108 The French get major props for getting almost all their juice from nukes.Despite a strong current of nutty greens in Europe.I wish we did the same.

Posted by: steevy at March 14, 2011 05:55 PM (nDZeZ)

114 News.com.au is reporting the peak radiation reading was 8217 uSv immediately following the explosion.

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 05:57 PM (QgI7g)

115 So at NHK it sounds like the primary containment is still good? I don't see a "suppression pool" marked in the schematic posted earlier today. They say only that it is linked to the reactor containment. NHK: Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano earlier told a news conference that a reactor facility, called the suppression pool, has been damaged. But agency officials said they have no detailed information yet about the report. They said that depending on where the damage is done, either liquid or air could leak out of the suppression pool. The suppression pool is linked to the reactor containment vessel and is designed to prevent radioactive material from leaking outside. snip The officials said they believe the rise in radiation level is due to the breach in the suppression pool, but that they cannot say for sure. They said they are monitoring the situation closely.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 05:58 PM (+vkOU)

116 I don't think our government is doing enough in Japan. Were are the other 9 or 10 aircraft carrier battle groups?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 05:58 PM (qIHlG)

117 116 Is that kosher or not?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 05:59 PM (qIHlG)

118 If primary containment was good, why would a leak in the suppression pool cause a rise in rad levels?

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 06:00 PM (QgI7g)

119 Prime Minister up on Jib.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 06:02 PM (qIHlG)

120 Maybe Vic knows what a suppression pool is, but as a guess it's a body of fluid or water servicing the reactor in some capacity. All I know is I can't find anything on the Fukushima schematic in the primary containment called a suppression pool.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:04 PM (+vkOU)

121 Update at WNN on this latest issue:

http://tinyurl.com/5r9f5js

They say that the torus is not within the primary containment.

Better illustration here:

http://tinyurl.com/4zdflar

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:05 PM (M9Ie6)

122 Oh, its good to see the comment meltdown is over.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:05 PM (M9Ie6)

123 Again, this is the report at NHK: The suppression pool is linked to the reactor containment vessel and is designed to prevent radioactive material from leaking outside. I can only guess this means it is a pool outside of the primary containment but perhaps sealed from the outdoors environment normally. If the suppression pool were inside the primary containment, wouldn't they say that instead of saying it's just "linked?" We need the AOSHQ crack team of nuclear engineers.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:08 PM (+vkOU)

124 I was wondering what that piece was for. So they were trying to vent the steam into the torus to avoid blowing up the building, and the blew up the torus instead?

Posted by: Ace's liver at March 14, 2011 06:08 PM (QgI7g)

125 I'm guessing that "suppression pool" means "pressure vessel".

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 06:08 PM (hZFhS)

126 #106

Hannity had a woman geophysicist on who talked about how California's buildings are not able to withstand a big quake. (Probably anything built before 1990 or so. Plus I don't know the requirements for residences vs. businesses and public buildings.)

She also said when a big quake hits north of California, in Washington, that will be a plate quake similar to Japan and probably a 9.0. She also said they think the tsunami would be 80 feet high, and cities inland would not be spared.

80 feet!

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 14, 2011 06:09 PM (Fo83G)

127 Ah, that is much clearer. Thanks Vic, that explains the jolt in radiation as it is outside the containment vessel.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:09 PM (+vkOU)

128 We need the AOSHQ crack team of nuclear engineers.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 10:08 PM (+vkOU)

Vic to the red courtesey phone please

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 06:10 PM (FIDMq)

129 I'm guessing that "suppression pool" means "pressure vessel". No, see Vic's links at 123 the pool is outside the primary con. vessel

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:11 PM (+vkOU)

130 She also said they think the tsunami would be 80 feet high, and cities inland would not be spared.

80 feet!

Posted by: Miss Marple at March 14, 2011 10:09 PM (Fo83G)

Even if shes full of it, I would use this as the final excuse to GTHO of California

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 06:11 PM (FIDMq)

131 If I get it right, the suppression pool or torus ordinarily takes steam released from the primary con. vessel, which would perforce be radioactive normally. If the torus leaked some of that radioactive water, that would naturally account for a spike in ionizing radiation, yes?

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:13 PM (+vkOU)

132 NHK - Secy of PM Cabinet is stating that the #4 reactor had an explosion and is on fire. #4 was out of service, but contained spent fuel which apparently heated up and released hydrogen gas which ignited.

Apparently, both #2 and #4 exploded today.

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 06:13 PM (qkRkG)

133 Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 10:11 PM (+vkOU) Yep, you're right. I just saw the second link. Still, this looks more serious than units 1 & 3.

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 06:14 PM (hZFhS)

134 Any way you slice it, it's an ugly mess. But not as threatening as being utterly homeless after your whole town has been flattened and your family is missing and you have no drinking water. Awful, awful, awful.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 14, 2011 06:16 PM (+vkOU)

135 My Twitter stream is not looking good right now. Hole observed in reactor #2, reactor #4 on fire. Radiation rising near damaged reactor, now being measured in *milli*Sieverts. 750 of 800 workers at plant evacuated. Fire vehicles en route. Water injection ops working but having trouble sustaining it.

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 06:17 PM (Kg/NF)

136 All of that from live tweets from Japanese cabinet sec. Edano and PM Kan. Most of it from the VOA guy and the Breaking News guy.

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 06:17 PM (Kg/NF)

137 The suppression pool is one of the key design features of BWRs for major loss of coolant accidents. Its basically a big pool of water to quickly drop temp/pressure. In the case of Mark 1 containment it is the torus -- the donut looking structure in some of the pics posted in previous threads.

Posted by: Lonny Eckert at March 14, 2011 06:20 PM (pyWwh)

138 I can say for the empty suit in the WH who apparently is a clueless schmuck when it comes to a sport he should know.swiss watches Coach Outlet Store Online

Posted by: fashionmonkey at March 14, 2011 06:20 PM (ygKy4)

139 I like the cut of this spammer's jib.

Posted by: toby928â„¢ at March 14, 2011 06:25 PM (GTbGH)

140 So, what's the deal - core meltdown where the reactor goes nuclular thermite to the center of the earth and then supernova terra infirma - or what?

Posted by: Druid at March 14, 2011 06:28 PM (RnujI)

141 NHK (live stream) - Cabinet Secy speculates that high radiation readings are due to #4 explosion and fire, not situation with #2 reactor, or explosions in #1 or #3. Seems odd, since all 4 reactors were probably storing spent fuel, but only #4 is causing elevated radiation readings?

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 06:28 PM (qkRkG)

142 If the torus has been breached, would the water run out and make it impossible to keep the core covered?

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 06:32 PM (hZFhS)

143 This article say 965.5 uSv

http://tinyurl.com/4gqodyo

1 Sv = 100 Rem

So a little AOS math 9.65 x 10^-4 Sv = 9.65 x 10^-2 Rem or more commonly 96.5 mRem/hr not that high for an accident of this magnitude.

What it doesn't say is where that was measured at.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:37 PM (M9Ie6)

144 Well, NHK is advising people within a 30 km radius to stay indoors, button up and hide, so something is going on.

BTW - a 30 km radius is about the same as all of Los Angeles, including the SFV.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 06:40 PM (Usvzc)

145 Vic, I don't quite understand everything on NHK, but it sounds like #4 is the source of the radiation, not #2. I am wondering if the spent fuel in #4 is now exposed to the outside air due to the explosion/fire. They are saying that the rad levels are now 1,000x higher than previously.

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 06:41 PM (qkRkG)

146

Howdy, I'm a long time lurker down here in Austin. Been following this story somewhat because of my schoolwork, I'm studying for radiology technologist (x-ray tech) or fun with radiation as I like to put it. For those that were asking what a mSv is. 1 mSv is equivelent to 100 millirems or 1/10 of a Rem. You recieve from natural background radiation about 3 mSv or 300 millirems of radiation per year. The sievert is the unit of measurement for the radiation quantity "equivalant dose". Not all radiation is equivelant in doing damage to biological targets thats why we use Sv or "Equivalant dosage". X-rays, beta particals, gamma photons pretty much zip right through you, not so bad, high energy, less likely to transfer that energy to tissue. Alpha particles and fast neutrons are paticulary nasty at damaging tissue so they have high quality factor. (Alpha particles fortunately have little penetration ability, just don't ingest anything emitting alpha particles) Just remember that 1 rem is = 1/100 of a Seivert. 1 Sv = 100 rem = 1000 mSv

How bad is 1 rem? Not enough to worry about in short term effects. 100 rems is another story, you get nausea, vomiting, diarhea, fatigue, leukopenia (abnormal lose of white blood cells), all the classic fun of radiation poisoning. About 400 gets you about a 50/50 chance of dieing in 6 to 8 weeks. You get over 1000 and you are essentially dead man walking, you 'might' pull through if you are in really good health and have access to major medical care, ie marrow bone transplant, and whole constant blood transfusions. Don't count on it.

My info I'm getting from one of my text books, Radiation Protection in Medical Radiography 6th edition.

Posted by: That guy at March 14, 2011 06:41 PM (2O++h)

147 Apparently #4 ran out of water. In all the fuss surrounding the other reactors, I guess nobody checked on #4. It is spent fuel but it is still hot and apparently the water has boiled off or leaked or both.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 06:42 PM (ZbLJZ)

148 Oh, and people are not supposed to bring any laundry hanging on the clothesline -- if that's the sort of thing you prioritize during a meltdown.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 06:42 PM (Usvzc)

149 400 milli-sievert readings now. How does that square with the calcs in comment 145?

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 06:42 PM (qkRkG)

150 uSv x .1 = mrem

This is now getting interesting, but the levels that they are quoting don't seem extreme, so God only knows what the hell is going on.

Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 14, 2011 06:43 PM (VW9Wz)

151 but only #4 is causing elevated radiation readings?

The Spent Fuel Pools are not within a "containment structure". They are on the same floor as that sheet metal sided building that blew up in the other two units.

Look at the small square looking things beneath the crane in this illustration.

http://tinyurl.com/4lrvkw5

And recall that you were looking at the "refueling floor" in that picture of the building with the sheet metal sides blown off.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:44 PM (M9Ie6)

152 spent fuel is on fire at #4? Wouldn't that have to be a "meltdown" in the "upper room"? And they would melt ... what is actually burning?

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 06:47 PM (D6qOQ)

153 Seems in all the excitement nobody was keeping the water topped off on the spent fuel.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 06:50 PM (ZbLJZ)

154 And they would melt ... what is actually burning?

Zr-water reaction as the clad temperatures approach 1200Â°F. This generates H2 gas once that happens all it needs is an ignition source.

Also makes it damn hard to add water via fire main unless they have a flange for emergency use and some lower level.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:50 PM (M9Ie6)

155 dunno... but NHK just said the fire at #4 is on the NW corner of the 4th floor... which might be where the spent fuel is (according to the diagram Vic had in 153)?

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 06:50 PM (qkRkG)

156 Damn, this is just one "impossible" scenario after another.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 06:52 PM (ZbLJZ)

157 damn I feel for those guys, one thing after the other.

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 06:53 PM (FIDMq)

158 Only thing left is for Godzilla to show up. Man what I would give for a Godzilla suit right now if I lived in that area. Get in the suit and show up at the gate.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 06:56 PM (ZbLJZ)

159 Fire on the refueling floor of the unit which was already in CSD. Keep in mind they are using fire engines to cool the core still. So any load they put on the fire main will hinder their ability to cool the core unless they can get more fire trucks in to pressurize the system.

When it rains, it pours.

With the ventilation system out and the SFP uncovering the chances of a release now are high unless they can get some water in that pool. Hopefully the fuel in that pool is not "fresh from the Kraft Candy kitchens" as we used to say. If it has been in there a while it will have decayed off considerably. If not, then it will be quite "hot".

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:57 PM (M9Ie6)

160 They should have had rad monitors going off like crazy in that SFP before the fuel uncovered. But who knows with their crazy loss of ALL power scenario?

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 06:59 PM (M9Ie6)

161

10000 uSv = 1 Rem. Sorry I get a bit verbose at times. As a radiation worker (we're classified as such) we're allowed to recieve .5 rems per year. I think they'd pretty much freak out if we ever got 25% of that though and start trying to figure out why we're getting such a high dose.

Posted by: That guy at March 14, 2011 07:00 PM (2O++h)

162 If it has been in there a while it will have decayed off considerably. If not, then it will be quite "hot".

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 10:57 PM (M9Ie6)

Do they have main power back yet? or is it beyond that at this point? just need water and lots of it?

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 07:01 PM (FIDMq)

163 I can try to find the link, but I recall reading somewhere yesterday that #'s 4, 5 and 6 went down for maintenance within the last month or so. Did they pull the fuel and put it in the 'spent" tank at that time?

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 07:01 PM (qkRkG)

164 It seems the fire in #4 would be the reason for the extra evacuations ... although that "upper room" is still enclosed ... for now ... (I'd guess)

But that is releasing radioactive material to the "not really for containment" upper room. If I have it right ...

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 07:03 PM (D6qOQ)

165 Kyodo news is saying there's been a hydrogen explosion at Number 4.

Posted by: DrewM. at March 14, 2011 07:06 PM (HicGG)

166 Do they have main power back yet? or is it beyond that at this point? just need water and lots of it?

I haven't seen anything yet that has said power was restored to this site.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:08 PM (M9Ie6)

167

55 FYI, levels of containment:

--the cladding on the fuel itself (the rods covering the fuel)
--the pressure vessel (looks like a giant water heater)
--primary containment (big concrete bulb thing)
--secondary containment (square building)

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 07:42 PM (pchXj)

I would add that the upper half of the secondary containment (square building) is designed to blow out/up [having had some experience with missile assembly buildings, launch silos, ordnance bunkers, etc., but not nuclear, other than hardened, that is], just as they have, rather than blow out the entire secondary containment. The odds of having an accident in a MAB, silo, or bunker is kinda high, and to design in direction of that 'accident' is highly desirable.

Kind of like the pressure relief valve on a household water heater.

Posted by: Druid at March 14, 2011 07:08 PM (RnujI)

168 NHK -- #3's spent fuel is exposed to the atmosphere right now and has no cooling.

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 07:08 PM (qkRkG)

169 CNN just showed some new video that was incredible.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 07:08 PM (1fB+3)

170 That water level is probably maintained automatically under normal circumstances and they probably aren't used to having to check on it manually.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:08 PM (ZbLJZ)

171

Ok, morons. When is it "hit the panic button" time? I get conflicting reports...this is not as serious as the media claims, then meltdown, then not as serious as media claims, then meltdown 400 mSv readings= maybe dead in 8 weeks.

Those poor people in Japan. Pray for this nightmare to stop.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at March 14, 2011 07:09 PM (oTjfX)

172 The 10CFR20 federal dose limit for whole body exposure is 5 Rem/year, not .5.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:10 PM (M9Ie6)

173 From Kyodo.com:

BREAKING NEWS: Fire at No.4 reactor apparently put out: Tokyo Electric (12:04)

Posted by: DrewM. at March 14, 2011 07:10 PM (HicGG)

174 We don't mean to be pushy, but...

Posted by: 100s of Bodies Washed Ashore at March 14, 2011 07:10 PM (xs5wK)

175 they should be able to drop water by helicopter now that the roofs are off ...

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 07:10 PM (D6qOQ)

176 The only thing that could be burning at #4, which would be dangerous, is spent fuel. The reactor itself was not running.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 07:12 PM (1fB+3)

177

@162 power considerations not one of my fortes

Not all radiation monitors are considered safety-related equipment. Not sure about sfp area monitoring.

With the loss of offsite power are all CR annunciators functional?

Posted by: Lonny Eckert at March 14, 2011 07:12 PM (pyWwh)

178 question, are there any big ass pumps being flown in to help out with this? seem to keep hearing about fire trucks and not many of em.

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 07:13 PM (FIDMq)

179 174 Your right Vic, misremembered it, that we might get 10% of it is why we get the rad badges.

Posted by: That guy at March 14, 2011 07:14 PM (2O++h)

180 Not all radiation monitors are considered safety-related equipment. Not sure about sfp area monitoring.

They were supplied from the Instrument Buses at the plants I am familiar with. Usually two IB were powered from batteries and 2 were from the Emergency Buses. Most sites also have two monitors in the SFP building so that you have redundancy from separate power supplies.

All that being said I understand that they lost ALL power

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:16 PM (M9Ie6)

181 are there any big ass pumps being flown in to help out with this?
No... Michelle Obama's on her way to Brazil.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 14, 2011 07:16 PM (7H/n0)

182 NYT reports catastrophe imminent : http://tinyurl.com/4f2jm4a

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:26 PM (6Lzbz)

183

Not sure if this was noted, saw this on an ABC news site...no idea if verified

1:13pm sydney time Japan's chief cabinet secretary Yukio Edano has told a media conference the number 4 reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant is on fire.

He said high radioactivity levels near the plant may be a result of the fire in reactor number 4. But he also said the fuel rods at the reactor are not on fire, the building is on fire.

Mr Edano said the figures that have been released to date measuring the level of radiation around the plant have been misquoted as micro sieverts. He said the unit attached to the figures should have been milli sieverts which are 1,000 times stronger and much more damaging to human health.

As stated, this was about an hour ago, and no idea if true or not, worth noting though

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 14, 2011 07:32 PM (FIDMq)

184 From that NYT link:

TOKYO -- Japan faced the likelihood of a catastrophic nuclear accident Tuesday morning, as an explosion at the most crippled of three reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station damaged its crucial steel containment structure, emergency workers were withdrawn from the plant, and much larger emissions of radioactive materials appeared imminent, according to official statements and industry executives informed about the developments.

Japanese Prime Minsiter Naoto Kan made a televised address to the nation at 11 a.m. Tokyo time to discuss the latest developments in the crisis.

The sharp deterioration came after government officials said the containment structure of the No. 2 reactor, the most seriously damaged of three reactors at the Daichi plant, had suffered damage during an explosion shortly after 6 a.m. on Tuesday.

They initially suggested that the damage was limited and that emergency operations aimed at cooling the nuclear fuel at three stricken reactors with seawater would continue. But industry executives said that in fact the situation had spiraled out of control and that all plant workers needed to leave the plant to avoid excessive exposure to radioactive leaks.

If all workers do in fact leave the plant, the nuclear fuel in all three reactors is likely to melt down, which would lead to wholesale releases of radioactive material -- by far the largest accident of its kind since the Chernobyl disaster 25 years ago.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 07:32 PM (Usvzc)

185 If all workers do in fact leave the plant, the nuclear fuel in all three reactors is likely to melt down,

All are not leaving.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:35 PM (M9Ie6)

186 Just remember, it is always darkest just before it goes completely back.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:35 PM (ZbLJZ)

187 Evacuation was for non-essential personnel with about 50 remaining on site last I heard.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:36 PM (ZbLJZ)

188 So what about reactor #2? I thought that was the main concern a little while ago. Wasn't there a breach in the torus? This situation with the spent fuel at reactor #4 seemed to come out of nowhere, at least to me.

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 07:37 PM (hZFhS)

189

@186 -- The drywall is reinforced concete so what are they referring to?

Yes to amplify what Vic said in 187 control rooms are hardened and have their own intrinsic HEPA-charcoal filtration systems. They are designed to be habitable even after a LOCA.

Posted by: Lonny Eckert at March 14, 2011 07:41 PM (pyWwh)

190 Most recent update at WNN for unit 2

The pressure in the pool was seen to decrease from three atmospheres to one atmosphere after the noise, suggesting possible damage. Radiation levels on the edge of the plant compound briefly spiked at 8217 microsieverts per hour but later fell to about a third that.

8217 x 10^-6 Sv/hr = 8.2 x 10^-4 Sv/hr = 8.2 x 10^-2 Rem/hr or 82 mRem/hr. And it immediately decreased to 1/3 of that.

But this was before the SFP fire which they note in the report but do not mention any rad levels from that.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:41 PM (M9Ie6)

191 Nightline is reporting that workers were moved to a safe area and that the government is saying no one should approach that reactor.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 07:41 PM (1fB+3)

192 Tokyo radiation levels, real-time: http://tinyurl.com/4ptd6dz

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:42 PM (6Lzbz)

193 Be patient on that last link - took 3 reloads before it came up for me. It's a graph . Levels more than quadrupled in the past 2 hours. Lord help them.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:46 PM (6Lzbz)

194 The wind shifted earlier today so they might be only just now getting a whiff of that plant.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:47 PM (ZbLJZ)

195 Reuters: Radiation levels in Saitama near Tokyo 40 times normal levels: Kyodo quoting local government

Hmmmm....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 07:47 PM (Usvzc)

196 40 times nearly nothing is still nearly nothing. 40 times normal background isn't much.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:49 PM (ZbLJZ)

197 The NEI site has a report that ALL the fuel from the Unit 4 reactor is in the SFP there, so yes, they are "fresh from the Kraft Candy Kitchens" and the pool is probably full of elements.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:49 PM (M9Ie6)

198 Tokyo already in 3mi territory as far as exposure goes?

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:50 PM (6Lzbz)

199 3mi exposure was practically nothing I wish people wouldn't bring that up. It gives people the wrong idea .. as if there was some hazard to the population at 3mi. Trying as hard as they can, they have not been able to find any health hazard whatsoever from 3mi.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:52 PM (ZbLJZ)

200 Tokyo is a long ways .. but I wonder if 40X could still just be from venting ... with a little of the melted cladding being vented with the steam.

Power out and bad valves to lead to some bad conclusions? Sure seems it would not take a lot of water after three days ... from previous statements.

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 07:52 PM (D6qOQ)

201 3mi is still a good metric for a "nothing" event.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:54 PM (6Lzbz)

202 Wake me up when the people of Tokyo start getting more exposure than the average airline pilot or flight crew member.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:55 PM (ZbLJZ)

203 From the updated NEI report:

TEPCO workers continue to pump sea water at 1, 2 and 3 reactors. Â“The biggest problem is how to maintain the cooling and how to contain the fire at No. 4.Â” At 10:22 a.m. Japan time, the radiation level between units 2 and 3 were as high as 40 rem per hour. Â“We are talking about levels that can impact human health.Â” Edano said.

40 Rem/hr is high so shit is going bad.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 07:56 PM (M9Ie6)

204 Nikkei down 16%, US futures look to follow. Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue!

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at March 14, 2011 07:57 PM (6Lzbz)

205 Yeah, 40 Rem/hr is bad. Then need to find out what is burning in unit 4

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 07:59 PM (ZbLJZ)

206 Nikkei down 16
Posted by: Brian

Which makes it somewhere in the low 20s over two sessions.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 07:59 PM (Usvzc)

207 Well folks, I'm not going to stay up all night again tonight. Time for bed.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 08:00 PM (M9Ie6)

208 thanks for the updates Vic

Nikkei down 11%, real hard the last 150 points. Wonder if that is on nuke news.

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 08:04 PM (D6qOQ)

209 Goodnight, Vic. And thanks for your efforts over the past few days. (And also to all the other moron engineers and technicians who've been commenting at Ace's.)

Posted by: andycanuck at March 14, 2011 08:05 PM (7H/n0)

210 NHK -- confirmed that #4 spent fuel is also exposed to the air, the the fire is ongoing. #3 has 400 milli-sieverts radiation detected. The problems with #2 seem to be worse, but they won't elaborate as to why.

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 08:05 PM (qkRkG)

211 Thanks Vic.

Posted by: johnd01 at March 14, 2011 08:09 PM (qkRkG)

212 Well folks, I'm not going to stay up all night again tonight. Time for bed.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 12:00 AM (M9Ie6)

Damn. Here I was hoping to stay up all night and get the real story rather than the crap at FNC.

Posted by: Methos at March 14, 2011 08:10 PM (uqJo6)

213 There really isn't any "new news" at this point anyway. Just gotta wait it out.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 08:23 PM (ZbLJZ)

214 it will be new news if they tell us reactor #2 has some leak and they are unable to cool the rods ( or better that a gauge was broken, cooling is proceeding)

or they got the fire out in 4, and that uncooled spent rods there was the source of the high Rem, it is stopped

As is, it seems possible we get to see if they contain a more full meltdown, as the real experts have been assuring us. A little nerve racking ... but I'm still betting it holds.

Posted by: bill at March 14, 2011 08:34 PM (D6qOQ)

215 The most worrisome for me is the fire in unit 4. That is starting to look really nasty.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 08:36 PM (ZbLJZ)

216 The NEI site has a report that ALL the fuel from the Unit 4 reactor is in the SFP there, so yes, they are "fresh from the Kraft Candy Kitchens" and the pool is probably full of elements.

What does that mean?

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 08:46 PM (mqhkc)

217 From Twitter (@HidekiOnda): "US Military fighting fire at Fukushima Reactor #4. Japan really appreciates this."

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 08:49 PM (Kg/NF)

218 Kyodo: NEWS ADVISORY: No-fly zone set for 30-km radius over Fukushima nuke plant: ministry 13:35

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 08:49 PM (Usvzc)

219 So far we've had the buildings housing reactors 1 and 3 explode, an explosion inside reactor 2, and the building holding reactor 4 on fire. Is that correct?

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 08:55 PM (1fB+3)

220 Unit 4 was recently shut down and the fuel rods put in the SFP (Spent Fuel Pool). "Fresh from the Kraft Candy Kitchens" means not long taken out of the reactor and still hot.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 08:55 PM (ZbLJZ)

221 Well, we got our no-fly zone. It just wasn't over Libya as expected.

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 08:57 PM (hZFhS)

222 I don't think it's the building holding reactor 4, it's actually spent fuel rods (fresh ones, sadly) that became exposed to air that are on fire. Plus they've had a hydrogen explosion at reactor 4, too, IIRC. But other than that, yeah. I think that's the basic sitch.

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 08:57 PM (Kg/NF)

223 Hi-res satellite image of Fukushima Daiichi plant, prior to the explosion of #2 reactor: http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1103/14japan/dgreactor_1500.jpg

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 09:01 PM (Kg/NF)

224 "US Military fighting fire at Fukushima Reactor #4. Japan really appreciates this." Posted by: Purple Fury at March 15, 2011 12:49 AM (Kg/NF) When all is said and done, and the full story is told, there will be some remarkable accounts of heroism coming out of this. They will rival the NYPD and NYFD on 9/11.

Posted by: rickl at March 14, 2011 09:01 PM (hZFhS)

225 The NY Times just updated.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 14, 2011 09:11 PM (1fB+3)

226 Dr Spank: NYT is behind paywall for me (and last few bug-me-nots no worky). Can you summarize?

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 09:14 PM (Kg/NF)

227
@228

Pulled a few paras:

According to government statements, most of the 800 workers at the plant had been withdrawn, leaving 50 or so workers in a desperate effort to keep the cores of three stricken reactors cooled with seawater pumped by firefighting equipment, while the same crews battled to put out the fire at the No. 4 reactor, which they claimed to have done just after noon on Tuesday.

But industry executives in close contact with officials in Japan expressed extreme concern that the authorities were close to losing control over the fuel melting that has been ongoing in three reactors at Daiichi, especially at the crippled No. 2 reactor where the containment has been damaged.

Tokyo Electric Power said Tuesday that after the explosion at the No. 2 reactor, pressure had dropped in the Â“suppression poolÂ” Â— a section at the bottom of the reactor that converts steam to water and is part of the critical function of keeping the nuclear fuel protected. After that occurred, radiation levels outside No. 2 were reported to have risen sharply.

Â“We are on the brink. We are now facing the worst-case scenario,Â” said Hiroaki Koide, a senior reactor engineering specialist at the Research Reactor Institute of Kyoto University. Â“We can assume that the containment vessel at Reactor No. 2 is already breached. If there is heavy melting inside the reactor, large amounts of radiation will most definitely be released.Â”

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 14, 2011 09:31 PM (Usvzc)

228 "Tokyo Electric Power said Tuesday that after the explosion at the No. 2 reactor, pressure had dropped in the Â“suppression poolÂ” Â— a section at the bottom of the reactor that converts steam to water and is part of the critical function of keeping the nuclear fuel protected. After that occurred, radiation levels outside No. 2 were reported to have risen sharply."

This is somewhat incomplete/misleading. There was an explosion. The suppression pool pressure gauge did drop to 0 (1 atm). But other pressure gauges did not. There is the notion that the explosion damaged the gauge. Pressure in the dry well did not drop. Radiation did increase briefly right after the explosion but dropped again soon afterward. Temperatures and water levels were stable after the explosion. At this point they were unsure of exactly what was going on, if they had a containment breach or if they just have a bad gauge, so they evacuated everyone not associated directly with quenching those reactors.

Subsequently, it appears that a fire had started in unit 4, possibly in the spent fuel pool, possibly started by a hydrogen explosion set off by spent fuel rods getting too hot (water levels probably not being monitored on those fuel rods -- my speculation). THAT fire appears to be the source of most of the atmospheric radiation at this time and it is not due to the other three reactors.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 09:37 PM (ZbLJZ)

229 From Twitter (@Matt_Alt): Confirmed via Asahi that US military played role in putting out that fire at #4. Thanks guys! http://tinyurl.com/4qabekn (Japanese language) http://twitter.com/#!/Matt_Alt

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 09:43 PM (Kg/NF)

230 @229, @230: Thank you.

Posted by: Purple Fury at March 14, 2011 09:49 PM (Kg/NF)

231 re #182, radiation meters

instruments in plants i know of run from station batteries which are powered in turn from AC chargers, emergency diesels when grid is down. Batteries would have run down in very few hours. one has to assume some enterprising electrician jury rigged a portable welder to keep batteries going, if he could find one that'd run just after a tidal wave.

Posted by: jim hardy at March 14, 2011 09:50 PM (Ah4Uz)

232 Yu Lianzhou see him Yankuangshirun, said:shanghai apartments for rent "Wudang Seven Chivalrous re-gathered, it is big and happy event. Since the third brother, injured, then you are missing, our rivers and lakes on the renamed Shanghai property rent'Wudang Five Man', hey, to revive its reputation today Seven shanghai real estate agency Chivalrous ... ...

Posted by: Angela at March 14, 2011 10:02 PM (j4+J3)

233 NHK reporting fire is out in unit 4. Water temperature in the #4 SFP at 84C which, they say, is twice normal (but shouldn't be enough to start a fire -- me).

Roof of unit 4 was damaged.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 10:03 PM (ZbLJZ)

234 Anyone hear if the suppression pool was breached? And how might that have happened? The earthquake? Pressure? An internal h2 explosion?

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 10:06 PM (mqhkc)

235 They aren't sure if there was a breach of the pool or if the explosion just took out the pressure gauge. They aren't seeing any indication on the other instrumentation of a breach. The main radiation release currently seems to be coming from unit 4 where there was a fire until recently.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 10:22 PM (ZbLJZ)

236 Fire burning spent fuel? Or stored fuel?

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 10:52 PM (mqhkc)

237 The problem (as I reckon) with the reactors at this point seems to be in getting enough water into them to cover the fuel rods. Steam builds up creating pressure, they vent to pressure to let more water in, before they can get enough water in, the pressure has built up again so they need to vent again. They can't seem to get enough water in there before the pressure builds to a point requiring venting again. So they are going to need to continue this pump/vent/pump/vent until they get the thing filled with water.

That said, each one of the reactors seems to have its own set of problems. One seems to have a malfunctioning water level gauge. One might have a malfunctioning pressure suppressor pressure gauge. Unit 2 had a major problem when apparently the hydrogen explosion in unit 3 somehow took out the power to the circulation pumps in unit 2 that wasn't noticed for a couple of hours and the fuel rods were exposed when the water level dropped.

They have been cooling them with a process of add water, vent steam, add water, vent steam. Circulation pumps aren't working so this is pretty much a manual process.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:00 PM (ZbLJZ)

238 238 spent fuel pulled from #4 last month. Still pretty hot. Lots of fission products. Really dirty.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:01 PM (ZbLJZ)

239 100mSv at #4
30mSv in an area between #2 and #3

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:04 PM (ZbLJZ)

240 Note that is mili not micro (m not u)

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:05 PM (ZbLJZ)

241 #1 and #3 containment seems to be intact.
#2 might be breached.

(listening to interview with scientists on NHK english)

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:07 PM (ZbLJZ)

242 Currently investigating unit #4 to see extent of damage, investigate source of fire.

radiation levels are dropping again.

496mSv at the front gate down from a high of 1100mSv when fire burning in #4.

The radiation might be from the debris scattered by explosion as levels at unit #4 are at 100mSv.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:31 PM (ZbLJZ)

243 Fire out at number 4
Stable at number 1
Water being injected to number 2
No mention of number three.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:41 PM (ZbLJZ)

244 #1 and #3 have now stable supply of coolant water.
#2 Water still being added.

596.4uSv measured someplace ... missed it. Radiation decreasing at the site. (Note, this reading in micro, not mili)

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:46 PM (ZbLJZ)

245 783 spent fuel rods in the pool at #4

Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 11:47 PM (ZbLJZ)

246 Good Morning Morons; woke up so I figured just had to come back for an update. The latest update from WNN gives a statement from the Prime Minister's spokesman to add to that material from crosspatch above:

Kan's spokesman Noriyuki Shikata said that there had been "a sign of leakage" while firefighters were at work, "but we have found out the fuel is not causing the fire." The fire is now reported extinguished.

That last statement doesn't make any sense since they said there had been an explosion in unit 4 and the only place that has hot fuel is in the spent fuel there. So the fuel had to be undergoing Zr water and evolving H2.

But that doesn't jive with the 84Â°C number either.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 12:01 AM (M9Ie6)

247 Kyodo: BREAKING NEWS: Cooling of No. 5, No. 6 reactors appears not to be working properly: Edano (16:42)

5 and 6? The were off-line when the quake hit. Why would they be having cooling problems?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 15, 2011 12:02 AM (Usvzc)

248 5 and 6? The were off-line when the quake hit. Why would they be having cooling problems?

Not enough info to go on.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 12:14 AM (M9Ie6)

249 Last I heard was they speculated that rods in #4 pool had become uncovered. Water vapor (steam) would possibly generate hydrogen on contact with uncovered rods, build up, and create an explosion.

But the last I heard they said they don't think the fire was at the area of the spent fuel pool so it might be something else (electrical?).

Might have caught a charcoal filter on fire or something which would possibly release bad stuff.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 12:47 AM (ZbLJZ)

250 #5 and #6 are off line. Next I will be hearing that number 7 and number 8 are broken (they aren't even built yet).

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 12:49 AM (ZbLJZ)

251 Latest from KYODO news

URGENT: Fukushima's spent nuke fuel pool may be boiling, reducing water level

TOKYO, March 15, Kyodo

Water in a pool storing spent nuclear fuel at the No. 4 reactor that caught fire Tuesday morning at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant may be boiling, causing the water level to drop, an official of Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.

The reactor was not in service when a magnitude 9.0 earthquake jolted Fukushima Prefecture and other areas in northeastern Japan on Friday, the official in charge of the facility said.

These folks haven't been the most reliable on info but this info jives more with what we are seeing than the stuff reported earlier.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 12:54 AM (M9Ie6)

252 That information is likely hours old. Yes, the circulation pumps in the spent fuel pools are down. They know that. They certainly know that by now as they were probably the source that told the media about it. I don't think a reporter is sticking his head into unit #4 these days.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 12:59 AM (ZbLJZ)

253 Just posted at KYODO:

The following is the known status as of Tuesday evening for each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture, crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and ensuing tsunami.

-- Reactor No. 1 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core, hydrogen explosion, seawater pumped in.

-- Reactor No. 2 - Cooling failure, seawater pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, partial melting of core, damage to containment system.

-- Reactor No. 3 - Cooling failure, partial melting of core, seawater pumped in, hydrogen explosion.

-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, pool water levels feared receding.

-- Reactor No. 5 - Under maintenance when quake struck.

-- Reactor No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck.

That statement about damage to the "containment" at unit 2 is probably not accurate.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 02:00 AM (M9Ie6)

254 Turned on F&F and they are back to scare mongering again so off with them.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 02:03 AM (M9Ie6)

255 Can they just add water? If they put the fire out, they must have access to add water. So #4 (and 5 and 6) SHOULD be under control.

Not being an expert, but just trying to put the puzzle pieces together ... it seems maybe the outside radiation increase was partly from #4. But they seemed more concerned about #2, where they added water and released steam, but didn't get a water level reading. Still, they released steam, added water (feed and bleed?) ... and one report was the leak in #2 wasn't that bad (so they could keep rods covered).

not really explained is how the fire started (just neglected to check #4 stored rods?, or to keep water on #2?, bad gauges, no power as reasons?) Very bad working conditions, but still ...

CNN guy says there was highest radiation reading yet, BUT he said that was inside the building itself. and I thought he said that was building 3. So that high 40 Rem reading is serious, but much less serious inside than outside?

Seems to be a mish mosh of "facts".

Posted by: bill at March 15, 2011 02:11 AM (D6qOQ)

256 So that high 40 Rem reading is serious, but much less serious inside than outside?

That 40 Rem.hr reading was outside between buildings 2 and 3 and thought to be coming from 4. As for the SFP it was probably loss of instrumentation that allowed the pool to boil away without them noting it.

In addition, there were reports of losing some of the fire trucks that were providing the feed. If it came down to feeding the reactor or the SFP they would probably feed the reactor.

Posted by: Vic at March 15, 2011 02:19 AM (M9Ie6)

257 Thanks Vic ...

I see Kyodo now is scrolling "remains to be seen if water smoothly injected at #2 reactor"

But if the high reading was from #4, and that is now controlled ... all might be "well" ... at least maybe heading the right way.

I just can't imagine how they could still be losing resources (eg. firetruck) instead of adding them, given how serious the matter is.

Posted by: bill at March 15, 2011 02:31 AM (D6qOQ)

258 I just can't imagine how they could still be losing resources (eg. firetruck) instead of adding them, given how serious the matter is.

Posted by: bill at March 15, 2011 06:31 AM (D6qOQ)

Doesnt make any sense, should of had a transport loaded with pumps in the air yesterday and dropping them in by chopper.

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 15, 2011 05:45 AM (FIDMq)

259 You would think that they could get some serious pumps onsite powered by portable diesels with fresh fuel in bladders, but maybe they just can't deal with all the additional help and are using what they have and know. At this point the outside help needs to be solving these issue to support the operators. I expect any minute to hear that Monthra or Godzilla has attacked. This is some really crazy shit.

Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 15, 2011 07:04 AM (zMdEg)

260 The major problem at this point seems to be the spent fuel at #4

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 07:19 AM (ZbLJZ)

261 I would have to disagree on the biggest problem because I think that Unit 4's problems were initially misreported and the biggest problem is still Unit 2. Regardless there is plenty of shit to go around and the 100# heads need to do some serious thinking to come up with some better solutions then 50 guys with fire hoses.

Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 15, 2011 07:26 AM (zMdEg)

262

At Unit 4 on March 14 at approximately 8:38 p.m. EDT, a fire was reported in the reactor building. It is believed to have been from a lube oil leak in a system that drives recirculation water pumps. Fire fighting efforts extinguished the fire. The roof of the reactor building was damaged.

The Japan Atomic Energy Agency (JAEA) reported an explosion in the suppression pool at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2, at 7:14 p.m. EDT on March 14. Reactor water level was reported to be at 2.7 meters below the top of the fuel. The pressure in the suppression pool decreased from 3 atmospheres to 1 atmosphere. Radiation readings at the site increased to 96 millirem per hour.

Dose rates at Fukushima Daiichi as reported at 10:22 p.m. EDT on March 14 were:
Near Unit 3 reactor building 40 rem/hr

Near Unit 4 reactor building 10 rem/hr

At site boundary 821 millirem/hr.

Kitaibaraki (200 km south of site) 0.4 millirem/hr.

NEI update.

Posted by: Sandy Salt at March 15, 2011 07:28 AM (zMdEg)

263 Reuters:

Daiichi reactor #2 water level still climbing. (good sign)

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 08:18 AM (ZbLJZ)

264 Yeah, Sandy Salt, they aren't sure if the explosion damaged that gauge or not. Other pressures did not drop and water levels are still increasing in unit 2. 1 atm is 0 psi so basically after the explosion the gauge went to 0, it is likely the gauge was broken by the explosion.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 08:19 AM (ZbLJZ)

265 "Temperatures appeared to be rising in the spent fuel pools at two other reactors at the plant, No. 5 and No. 6, said Yukio Edano, the chief cabinet secretary" (NYT via Reuters).

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 08:21 AM (ZbLJZ)

266 Digital Globe has a sample image up that looks like unit #3. You can clearly see what looks like the spent fuel pool steaming:

http://www.digitalglobe.com/index.php

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 08:24 AM (ZbLJZ)

267 Director General of IAEA says any damage at #2 core likely to be to less than 5% of the core.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 08:43 AM (ZbLJZ)

268 Radiation levels continuing to drop. Front gate levels down to 8mSv (from several hundred mSv yesterday). This level is thought to come from debris scattered from the explosion (NHK)

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 09:01 AM (ZbLJZ)

269 Some geek on the radio said it is likely they will attain cold shutdown of all three units by this weekend. I say units 1 and 3 will attain cold shutdown sooner, maybe unit 2 by this weekend.

Posted by: crosspatch at March 15, 2011 11:55 AM (AdYoA)

270 Kaddafy could play the lead in the Lifetime Biography of "Senorita" Sonia Scotuspeor. Yes, the resemblance is stunning:

http://tinyurl.com/4p6fkgm and http://tinyurl.com/49weqf8

Posted by: sartana at March 18, 2011 04:47 AM (7Xm5b)

271 One of the best things about Juicy Couture diaper bag at juicy couture online shop is the fact that, despite being a trendy, stylish and innovative brand Juicy Couture, they deliver a wide range of designer handbags

Posted by: JEMMY at July 01, 2011 10:55 PM (ymE3k)

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