1 Thanks Maet.  This really is helpful.
Once I get my new place I think I will have a portion set aside as a 'bunker'. 
What type of engineer are you anyway?

2 I've had all of these since 9/11. Not because I actually expect to ever really need them, but as an engineer I always feel better if I've got Plans B through K ready to go.

I could have guessed.  Maet don't take a dump without a plan.

3 PI tablet link has been deleted.

4 That map of nuclear plants must be a couple of years old because there hasn't been a nuclear plant come online since about 1990.

5

Gas masks are some of the freakiest things in the history of ever.  The way they look scares the bejeezus out of me.  I think I've watched too much post-apocalyptica.  But thank you for this post!

On a side note, what's most important to have on hand in the case of a zombie apocalypse?  Guns and ammo?  The world is so f'ed up now, it's not looking so unlikely anymore.

6 Maetenloch why are you posting this scaremongering BS?

You are more likely to be hit by a falling meteorite than get over-exposed in a nuclear accident. Do you buy falling meteorite insurance?

7 Maet,

Is this the same stuff?  Your link doesn't work.

8 Flood zone, store the duct tape in a ziplock.
 

9 Do you buy falling meteorite insurance?

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 08:54 AM (M9Ie6)

Heh, my insurance offers 'from air' insurance.  Anything that falls on a house is covered.

10 This is the kind of crap that belongs on Snuffington Roast.  An entire village in Japan has gone missing, and it had nothing to do with nuclear power.

An 8.9 quake would cause catastrophic damage wherever it happened.  Worrying about the Attack of the Killer Tomatoes is worse than pointless.

11

On a side note, what's most important to have on hand in the case of a zombie apocalypse?  Guns and ammo?  The world is so f'ed up now, it's not looking so unlikely anymore.

Posted by: MWR at March 14, 2011 08:54 AM (4df7R)

Bacon - zombies run to it like dogs in heat to a bung hole.

12  3 PI tablet link has been deleted.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at March 14, 2011 08:52 AM (c5RQr)

Okay link fixed now.

13

What is the lifespan of PI pills?

14 6 Maetenloch why are you posting this scaremongering BS?

You are more likely to be hit by a falling meteorite than get over-exposed in a nuclear accident. Do you buy falling meteorite insurance?
Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 08:54 AM (M9Ie6)

Yeah, I know fears of a nuclear accident are completely overblown.

But if falling meteorite insurance only cost around $6, I'd probably still buy it since that's some pretty cheap insurance.

15 Vic and ChuckIt: Maetenloch isn't only talking about nuclear accidents, but also terrorist acts like a dirty bomb.  It's perfectly reasonable to take precautions.

16

Bacon - zombies run to it like dogs in heat to a bung hole.

Posted by: momma at March 14, 2011 08:58 AM (penCf)

Good to know.  I'll make sure to have some on hand.

And that is one of the more descriptive metaphors I've ever read.  LOL!

17 ... and what could would PI tablets do for the missing village?

18 Yay me for not having a thyroid anymore.

19

If' you're in a pinch you can always make a french WW 1 gas mask.  I'ts essentially goggles and a rag you pissed on held over your mouth

20 Amazing. People will whine like little girls at a sniff of radiation from those evil power plants yet stand in line and get zapped repeatedly by TSA at any airport near you. WTF?

21 Don't forget plastic wrap. Duct tape is useless without the plastic wrap.

22 I just watched Dr. Oz on Fox News talk as if Iodine would not help.   What a jerk.  (I'm a nuclear engineer and my wife has had thyroid problems for years and consequently several radioactive thyroid scans).  Any Endocrinologist or oncologist would know why iodine loading would help a great deal.

Dr. Oz being a TV celebrity has acquired  the feeling he can opine on anything without knowlege.

23 "Fukushima" just sounds hot

24

Dr. Oz being a TV celebrity has acquired  the feeling he can opine on anything without knowlege.

does he have a lab coat on? or is he wearing scrubs? because that's all the knowledge one needs

25 Is this BS from ABC? (I know....silly question)

The aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan and other US Navy ships in the waters off the quake zone in eastern Japan were repositioned after the detection of a low-level radiation plume from the troubled Fukushima nuclear plant located 100 miles away.

According to 7th Fleet Commander and Spokesman Jeff Davis, the ships were moved away from the downwind direction of the plant as a precautionary measure on Sunday.

http://tinyurl.com/4g68s86

26 "I'm just going through all the things you can find in an apocalyptic paper called the NYT's"  did Beck just say this?

27 Jesus, I saw Uma Pomeraju interview Bill Nye on Fox over the weekend.  I guess they ran out of real news readers and real experts.

28 Posted by: Tami at March 14, 2011 09:08 AM (VuLos)

I posted it last night in the last Japan thread.  My links there are fromthe NYT's.

There was an odd line in there about helicopters being coated with something.

I posted the links for the moms of military on the blog,

29 It's perfectly reasonable to take precautions.

"Dirty" bombs are overblown BS too. In order to make a hazardous "dirty" bomb you have to get something truly hazardous first. When you get it it will kill you before you can get it into a bomb.

KI tablets protect the thyroid from exposure to radioactive I-131 which is a fission product. To get fission products in any quantity above "molecular" you have to have spent fuel or a nuclear weapon. Neither of which is likely possible for a terrorist.

The most likely version of killing by terrorists is by shooing everyone at a McDonalds or a shopping center. Are we all going to quit eating at fast food joints and going shopping?

30

@10

I disagree.  While the odds of a nuclear plant suffering a catastrophic failure are remote, it can happen; that's what is going on in Japan now.

Frankly, I think we have higher odds of a rogue state dropping a nuke on us.  The old calculus of Mutually-Assured-Destruction now longer holds true:  these new opponents are crazy.

It is a very prudent idea to be prepared for a disaster, "man-caused" or otherwise.  Maybe it's an engineer thing but I've got a couple of the radiological survey meters the U.S. government used to provide for the the old Civil Defense teams.  I hate to break the news to you, but the federal government disbanded the C.D. teams back in the 1990's (thanks to Clinton) and neither subsequent administration has brought them back.

Be prepared or be a refugee.

31 Don't forget plastic wrap. Duct tape is useless without the plastic wrap. Posted by: Ben

Wrap? The tough industrial grade plastic tarps.

What level sonic blast shatters most windows?

32 ot -- out of the loop over the weekend sick as a dog -- likely covered already:
A beleaguered President Obama has told aides it would be so much easier to be the president of China, The New York Times reports.
nypost, michael goodwin

33

Well...fast food is bad for you. And the government needs to step in and regulate fast food. McDonald's should, by government mandate, be required to quit serving fries and instead include fresh slices of Jonathan Apples to go with their new soy burgers. You would understand this if you were not so stupid. Thank Obama that your intellectual and ethical superiors in the media are here to tell you this.

Posted by: Mika Brezhinski at March 14, 2011 09:16 AM (OWjjx)

HA!  I was just watching video of her on this.

For those that missed it, Mika was 'horrified!, horrified!' to see what her daughter and friend were eating from Dominos.

http://tinyurl.com/4abt4f3

34 The problem in Japan was not the earthquake, it was the resulting tsunami. And the location of their nuke plants being immediately on the shoreline, not even 50-100 yards inland. The real problem was that the tsunami knocked out their emergency diesel generators. Without AC or DC power (batteries don't run much, and they're only good for8-12 hrs at the most), there is only so much the plant can do. Even the CA plants are better protected.

35 This chiding of bloggers is really getting out of hand. 

You think the MSM coverage is hyperbolic?  Fine, I get it.  It offends your sensibilities because you're all experts in nuclear issues. 

Get used to it.  We're all in that same boat in some area of our expertise.  It offends the shit out of me to read asinine stuff about evolutionary biology, too.  There's so much crap out there (and amongst the comments here sometimes) that I'd have to spend every waking moment of my life trying to correct the asshats. 

Bad MSM coverage is problematic because the consumers of that coverage includes a huge swath of the general public who lack the critical skills to sift through the garbage and discern reality. So it is irritating to see it (which is why I don't watch it.) 

But blog readers, especially readers of this place, are not such dolts.  We can read something like Maet's post and take from it what we will.  There've been no calls to eliminated nuclear power from the conservative blogosphere.  We are not over-reacting.  Get over yourselves.  If you have a factual link to post, post it.  But stop lecturing us. 

36 29 It's perfectly reasonable to take precautions.

"Dirty" bombs are overblown BS too. In order to make a hazardous "dirty" bomb you have to get something truly hazardous first. When you get it it will kill you before you can get it into a bomb.

KI tablets protect the thyroid from exposure to radioactive I-131 which is a fission product. To get fission products in any quantity above "molecular" you have to have spent fuel or a nuclear weapon.
Posted by: Vic

I think Vic stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

37

Hey, serious question:

Do you think we here are kind of myopic?  Like, we let the news of the day run our lives and our moods too much?

Like, it would be totlaly more healthy if we just backed off and stopped getting our panties in a wad over this shit?

That the world would go on fine without us obsessing over it?

38

OT: I'm sure this has been talked about here at AoSHQ already, but I didn't get to check out too many of the threads this weekend.  Anything that gets the unions in a snit is pretty cool, but especially in Michigan.

(link goes to CBS News)

Michigan bill would impose "financial martial law"
Posted by Stephanie Condon

Michigan lawmakers are on the verge of approving a bill that would enable the governor to appoint "emergency managers" -- officials with unilateral power to make sweeping changes to cities facing financial troubles.

Under the legislation, the Michigan Messenger reports, the governor could declare a "financial emergency" in towns or school districts. He could then appoint a manager to fire local elected officials, break contracts, seize and sell assets, eliminate services - and even eliminate whole cities or school districts without any public input...

I can see lots of benefits and lots of negatives with this kind of legislation, but I don't think Michigan has much leeway.  It's between taking extreme measures to shape up, or going under completely.

39

Be prepared or be a refugee.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at March 14, 2011 09:13 AM (S2+uh)

On the radio this weekend an FBI agent (retired)  said Ohio (Columbus) is the second most highly sought after American target.  Oh joy!

40

The most likely version of killing by terrorists is by shooing everyone at a McDonalds or a shopping center. Are we all going to quit eating at fast food joints and going shopping?

Yes, but that's because my colon has suffered to many Big Mac terrorist attacks

41 So, Y-not - when someone puts out false information about YOUR specialty, do you usually just let it go without commenting ? Since you see fit to lecture US about this, I tend to doubt it.

42 21 Don't forget plastic wrap. Duct tape is useless without the plastic wrap.

Posted by: Ben at March 14, 2011 09:07 AM (wuv1c)

Duct tape is also a great bandage in a pinch.

43

On the radio this weekend an FBI agent (retired)  said Ohio (Columbus) is the second most highly sought after American target.  Oh joy!

Posted by: momma at March 14, 2011 09:28 AM (penCf)

Well it's a good thing the DoJ is lowering law enforcement exam grades then!

44 Retired Buckeye Cop

Civil Defense gone. State National Guards abroad. Open borders. ATF armed international organized criminal cartels on the loose stateside gratis DHS. Our Federal loons attempted to bribe with firearms as if to win international loyalty from South of our Border, at least continental, that already aligned with the Islamists bearing powerful "gifts" of mini-bomb technology and materials.

45 Under the legislation, the Michigan Messenger reports, the governor could declare a "financial emergency" in towns or school districts. He could then appoint a manager to fire local elected officials, break contracts, seize and sell assets, eliminate services - and even eliminate whole cities or school districts without any public input...


That is too much power for anyone.  It sounds good now because there is a R in the state house, but if there was a D in the state house, we would freak the heck out.

46

This chiding of bloggers is really getting out of hand. 

this chiding business is going to get out of hand and we'll be lucky to live through it.

 

 

 

^{two Red October quotes in one thread! High five!}

47

On the radio this weekend an FBI agent (retired)  said Ohio (Columbus) is the second most highly sought after American target.  Oh joy!

Posted by: momma at March 14, 2011 09:28 AM (penCf)

...WHY?  Columbus, OH?  What on earth for?

48 Hell we need that thread that I recommended yesterday.

Post an evolution/civil war/McDonnell/Palin thread then Y-not will have something to "over react" to.

49

Posted by: MWR at March 14, 2011 09:28 AM (4df7R)

Yeah, I saw that last night.  CA needs it, now.  Of course that would require a governor that would actually use it to address the problems.

50 That is too much power for anyone.  It sounds good now because there is a R in the state house, but if there was a D in the state house, we would freak the heck out.

Posted by: momma at March 14, 2011 09:31 AM (penCf)

That's the major negative I saw as I was reading it.  I don't know if there's a time limitation on the duration of this particular piece of legislation, but there should be, and it should be unalterable.

51 I have not heard much about CA. lately. I guess Gov Moonbeam has it all fixed up?

52

Posted by: MWR at March 14, 2011 09:33 AM (4df7R)

Concur.

53 Monty is that you ?

54 Interesting.  Right now, the governor of RI appointed a special master to run the city of Central Falls based on their incredibly crappy finances.  There does not appear to be any state constitutional authority for the move, but nobody (except for the mayor and city council of CF) is complaining.

55 I have not heard much about CA. lately. I guess Gov Moonbeam has it all fixed up? Posted by: Oldsailor's poet

Duct taped media?

56 I don't know where the numbers are coming from in Japan, but does anyone else think the casualty numbers are bogus? How hard is it for them to say that they don't have enough information to give a number?

57

Well it's a good thing the DoJ is lowering law enforcement exam grades then!

Posted by: CDR M at March 14, 2011 09:30 AM (cqZXM)

He kept saying that there were several 'closed' munition warehouses that were supposedly closed, but they are actually up and running, the employees are just on 24 hours sifts so the come and go at night, staggering their traffic.

He also said that if they actually saw the intel he had seen about Columbus' Somali population and how it is actually working with the Mexican gangs/drug cartel, people would GTFO of Ohio - yesterday!

What's really sad is that I have been hearing this since I was a school girl (between 1 - 20) years ago (the biggest target thing) because of the work they do at several 'unknown factories' in Ohio, and back in the day Rickenbacker.

58 I don't know where the numbers are coming from in Japan, but does anyone else think the casualty numbers are bogus?

How hard is it for them to say that they don't have enough information to give a number?

Posted by: Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz at March 14, 2011 09:38 AM (nXOMk)

Do you mean bogus as in too low?

59

I guess you either believe this stuff, because there's incontrovertible proof, or you will never believe it.

Moveon.org run by international socialists

60

Another OT, but seriously?

(Link to Buzzfeed, and stupid people with no sense of history)

61

There are a couple of things that make new nuclear power plants safer than ever. First is the design / build / procure process. In the old days, every power plant was a unique design. 100% original. No two were alike, and in many cases even plants that had multiple reactors would have a different design for each one.

It doesn't take an engineering genius to understand that making everything a one-off means that you're essentially using a prototype. Increases risk. Not unmanageable risk, but risky none the less. Newer reactors are designed to be more mass produced. Not Henry Ford mass production, but not the one-at-a-time method we saw in the past.

The second thing that makes these newer reactors safer are that they're using the new Advanced Boiling Water Reactor (ABWR). These designs are much improved over the previous Boiling Water Reactors (BWR) and are simpler to operate.

All nuclear reactors have some sort of coolant. They are, after all, just big heat sources to boil water. Did the engineers ever envision the emergency systems for a reactor going offline? What was the Plan C? Or is the scale of this event too large to plan for?

Shit happens and it, being shit, often sucks. That said, what could have been done differently to prevent this?

62 59, with the speed of the tsunami and the size of the cities that are, well, gone. I would have to say we are looking at deaths in the 10's of thousands. Not since watching people jump from the WTC have I been as emotionally moved. You saw the cars trying to speed away and the water just came from both sides. Wathcing people die on live TV sucks.

63
They've made it much more difficult to obtain sources of dangerous radioactivity, but if you know what you're doing you can get them.

Here's a fascinating story about somebody who got them before things were tightened up. If you haven't read it before, I suggest you read it now:

Tale of the Radioactive Boy Scout

64 Azaleas? Give Hydrangeas a look. They flower longer and you can "tune" the color from blue to cream to pink depending on soil acidity or alkalinity. Fun for the whole family.....and puzzling to your neighbors.

65 Damn, how the hell did they get 4 reactors in Cali, and how are they still operating? Must have been before full leftard takeover

66 Here's a wee bit of good news.....

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-three percent (43%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -20. That matches the presidentÂ’s lowest ratings of 2011

67 65 59, with the speed of the tsunami and the size of the cities that are, well, gone. I would have to say we are looking at deaths in the 10's of thousands. Not since watching people jump from the WTC have I been as emotionally moved. You saw the cars trying to speed away and the water just came from both sides. Wathcing people die on live TV sucks.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at March 14, 2011 09:41 AM (oBXlb)

I agree on all counts. 

When the initial presumptive death toll was coming out as "around 1000," I was dumbstruck.  That is clearly too low for such widespread destruction.  When entire towns have literally disappeared, anything less than 10,000 dead is, in my opinion, a miracle. 

68 27 Jesus, I saw Uma Pomeraju interview Bill Nye on Fox over the weekend. I guess they ran out of real news readers and real experts.
__________

Yeah, well, the nuclear expert she talked to before Bill Nye was John McCain.

69 69 Here's a wee bit of good news.....

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-three percent (43%) Strongly Disapprove, giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -20. That matches the presidentÂ’s lowest ratings of 2011

Posted by: Tami at March 14, 2011 09:44 AM (VuLos)

The cockles of my heart are warmed.  *happy glow* 

70

Am I the only one who wants to see Maetenloch post the ONT wearing his gas mask?

71 Dude.

72

Azaleas?

Give Hydrangeas a look.

They flower longer and you can "tune" the color from blue to cream to pink depending on soil acidity or alkalinity.

Fun for the whole family.....and puzzling to your neighbors.

I am putting 5-6 hydrangeas in my front yard, do you know what kind of acidity i need for them to be blue?

73 Careful with those hydrangeas, they are toxic if you have animals or small children who eat them.

In fact, they are a hell of a lot more dangerous to eat than the stuff that Ed posted that "boy scout" getting above.

74 104 reactors. Only 10 of which are less than 20 years old. Is there a similar map for coal-fired plants and oil refineries? Democrats: Lights Out, America!

75

Mika, gee... I was thinking more on the line of, oh, I dunno, doing things like making sure your diesel fuel isn't in a place where a huge wave of water can contaminate it or designing a reactor that has a big button that says, "In case of emergency, break glass" which then floods the reactor with marshmallow peeps and roaches.

Where the hell is the off button?

76 Post an evolution/civil war/McDonnell/Palin thread then Y-not will have something to "over react" to.
Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 09:32 AM

Or mention a beautiful woman in showbiz.

77

don't know where the numbers are coming from in Japan, but does anyone else think the casualty numbers are bogus?

How hard is it for them to say that they don't have enough information to give a number?

I think they are erring on the safe side. They are going with confirmed casualties instead of speculation.

I think that's a good way to go. Unlike our media who love to shout large numbers. I remember during 9/11 they kept saying it could be as many as 50,000 people. It ended up only being like 2.800. (not that that's good but its better than the 50k they kept saying)

78

#41,

Not to stay too far OT, but you should realize the story doesn't match reality - perhaps the line "(link goes to CBS News)" gives a clue...

Many states (I'm aware of ~ 20+, and there are supposedly quite a few more) have given their executive branch some leeway in handling local fiscal issues (the current RI situation is a good example). AFAIK, Michigan is one of the states w/no such structure in place, so this law (text of which doesn't agree w/the reports. Shocking, I know) seems to be correcting that situation.

Back to the OP - a few here have correctly pointed out that it wasn't the quake, per se, but rather the tsunami that caused the damage.

(that and the Japanese practice of building every NPP on the coasts...)

79 Or mention a beautiful woman in showbiz.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 09:53 AM (pchXj)

How about:

http://tinyurl.com/458aqwn

80 83, wow, scuze me while I touch myself.

81 !

O/t:  You guys, I made art.  It's in the sidebar.  I guess I'm a fully qualified artiste now.

82 I've bookmarked Rasmussen for that poll. Look at it daily......sometimes gives me feel good tingles, other times makes me feel "truly boned". I cannot believe how many stupid people there are out there who truly do not pay attention to what the clown is doing to us. Still 43% strong disapproval, I mean that number should be at least 55%.

83 Information Dissemination had a nice takedown on the media coverage of the radiation levels.  Especially in regard to the USS Ronald Reagan crew.

84 What type of engineer are you anyway?
Train.

Choo-choo! Here I cum come!

85 I feel bad for those boys on the Reagan. Anyone that has served any time on board a navy vessel is all too familiar with the NBC decontamination procedures. It's basically water wash down and scrub brushes. If they were contaminated it's going to be a long day on the flight deck.

86 Especially in regard to the USS Ronald Reagan crew.

Next time you are out on cruise have one of the ELTs go up and take a swipe from the intake on one of the jets after it comes in before it gets washed and then take it down to be counted.

You may be very surprised. There is still a lot of "stuff" up there at the higher elevations left over from the 50s and early 60s. At least there was back in the 70s.

I suspect that they moved as a "precaution" so that the tiny amount of radioactivity that they picked up in the air sample doesn't get confused with their own stuff.

87

Bacon - zombies run to it like dogs in heat to a bung hole.

Posted by: momma at March 14, 2011 08:58 AM (penCf)

_{That's why I come here, poetry and problem solving all rolled into one neat package.}

88 Mornin' all.  I see the world is still going to hell in a hand basket.  Is Barry golfing today?

Oh, and we're getting ready to build a new nuclear plant here in Gawja.

89

Not to stay too far OT, but you should realize the story doesn't match reality - perhaps the line "(link goes to CBS News)" gives a clue...

Yeah, I always take anything I read from the MFM with a grain of salt.  I do find it interesting, though, how breathless such stories sound when the MFM reports on them.  If there were a drinking game for every time the media takes something and blows it way the hell out of proportion, we'd all be dead from alcohol poisoning and bar fights.

90

In fact, they are a hell of a lot more dangerous to eat than the stuff that Ed posted that "boy scout" getting above.

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 09:52 AM (M9Ie6)

Why the scare quotes, Vic? After all, the kid got his merit badge for his experiment.

Did you check out his face?

He reminds me of my whiz kid cousin who built his own laser in 1967. His dad worked at a power plant and snagged a transformer for him. He opened it up, drained the oil, and played around with the innards. The thing is, it was full of PCBs. Talk about a nasty case of chloracne!

91 92 Mornin' all.  I see the world is still going to hell in a hand basket.  Is Barry golfing today?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2011 10:08 AM (UOM4

You've answered your own question!  Is Barry golfing today?  The world is going to hell in a handbasket, so the answer is undoubtedly yes.

92 Don't be a dip about the 7th Fleet fear-mongering, curious. I told you this last night...

Here's the non-hysterical report on the 7th Fleet's actions, curious. And I believe the volcano is on/near a different main island than the Fukushima site. And "treated for contamination" means literally washing with ordinary soap and water.

93 The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows that 23% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as president. Forty-three percent (43%) Strongly Disapprove

Geez, where's the uptick?  I mean, he did just come out & say he was heartbroken over Japan.  That's enough to convince a sizeable portion of dopes to think he's just jim dandy as a president.

94

#93, MWR - exactly. Sample headlines if a (D) were gov w/this legislation:

"Michagan Executive office now able to provide quick fixes for fiscal woes" or "Governor's Office now able to support local efforts to fix budget crisis"...

Sigh.

95 Is this BS from ABC? (I know....silly question)

Perhaps not.  If some of the other links I've seen were true, some of the sailors took about 20-30 mRem.  A small number but nonetheless, you don't run around gratuitously taking dose if straightforward measures can be taken to reduce it.

Or as one of my coworkers would have said, "Don't stand there talking about the baseball scores right next to that crucible with the americium residues".

96

Is Barry golfing today?

Nah. While sunshine is now breaking thru the clouds in the DC area, it's still chilly w/some breezes. Thurs & Fri look outstanding, with temps near 70, sunny skies, & light winds. I predict at least 2 complete rounds in the next 5 days...

97 How about:

http://tinyurl.com/458aqwn

Or one of these.

98 I've been out of touch since Thursday. Anything happen while I was gone? How's Zero's golf game?

99 Or mention a beautiful woman in showbiz.
Zing! LOL

100 Ace, in your comments you seem to allege that people in California should be worried about a 9.1 earthquake like just happened in Japan. I do not believe there is a historical record of earthquakes that large in California. For instance the Northridge quake, which was as heavy of an earthquake that is anticipated to hit the LA Basin, was 6.8 on the Richter scale, 1 /126 th the power of the recent Japanese earthquake. The San Andreas is expected to max out slightly above the 8.0 range I think, but not 9. The 1906 San Francisco quake was thought to be 7.9 -8.2 and the 1857 Tehachapi quake was thought to be around 7.9. Now for whatever reason, the USGS map and earthquake code maps for seismic design does not seem to reflect the size of known historical earthquakes. The enormous earthquake of 1700 in the coastal area of the Oregon/Washington border, which was almost certainly much more powerful that the recent Japanese quake, does not appear to be in even in the highest seismic zone. Suffice to say, the most deadly American earthquakes are expected to be in the Pacific Northwest, Alaska and perhaps along the New Madrid fault in Missouri, which had a huge quake in 1817.

101 Thanks for this uplifting feel-good post on a Monday morning!

102 106, Yea, no shit, wtf.

103

It looks like the rebels in Libya are getting routed. I doubt they'll be able to hold on much longer. Tanks, Artillery, Planes are too much to overcome. Also i saw a CNN reporter talk about how they are running out of ammunition because they fired a shit load of it into the air in celebritory gunfire. Freaking idiots.

Just think, everyone though Khadaffy was dead meat a few weeks ago, now it looks like he's going to come out just fine.

104 From the other thread, Upscale/Downscale:

Looks like the rods in reactor 2 have not been exposed. From Kyodo:

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said water levels had fallen but the fuel rods in the No. 2 reactor remained submerged. He also said radiation levels had not risen sharply at the plant.

Posted by: Infobot at March 14, 2011 05:00 AM (LJAdd)

105 I've been out of touch since Thursday. Anything happen while I was gone? How's Zero's golf game?

Posted by: maddogg at March 14, 2011 10:19 AM (OlN4e)

a. Nah nuthin' much.

b. The golf is a scam, he just leans on his club while smokin' butts.

_{Hey, I'm talkin' about cigarette butts.}

106

"Nuclear fuel rods at a quake-stricken Japanese nuclear reactor are now fully exposed, Jiji news agency said, quoting the plant's operator, Tokyo Eletcric Power Co . "

Again, witness the Power of the Press ^TM

Or to put it bluntly, B*rbra S*reisand. 

107 It's the moonbats in the Pacific North West due for a mega-shake followed by some wave action. I will reserve comment on the esteemed residents of Idongivafuckaboutcalifornicatia.

108 [And sorry for mangling your sock, Downscaled Upscale.]

109 I would find a dose of 20 mRem hard to believe since according to the reports from World Nuclear News the dose rate at the site boundary during the controlled releases was only 20 mRem/hr.

They would have had to fly directly into the plume at the site boundary and stay there for an hour.

110

Two comments from an old Health Physicist

1) DonÂ’t stock up on iodine. I havenÂ’t seen any reports of a major radioactive iodine release from the damaged plant. Even if there was a release, there would be dang little by the time it got halfway around the world (diffusion is our friend when it comes to radioactive material). The practice of giving iodine tablets to people near a powerplant is somewhat controversial as it hasnÂ’t been proven to really work. However, the idea is to flood the thyroid with normal iodine PRIOR to exposure to the radioactive iodine. If the thyroid is saturated with normal iodine, then the theory is that no other iodine (radioactive or not) would likely enter the thyroid. The iodine tabs have to be taken before the exposure occurs. This is why they are handing out iodine tabs to the locals. It is a precautionary measure IF radioactive iodine is released. However, there is a very small percentage of people who do not react well to taking normal iodine in this quantity. You might want to think twice before taking it. If you want to take precautionary steps, without the potential problems inherent in putting a large amount of iodine in your system, you can wear a respirator with a charcoal cannister on it. DO NOT put a respirator on someone who has not been instructed in its proper use. IÂ’ve been in radioactive iodine environments and charcoal filters do a great job of keeping you from inhaling radioactive iodine.

2) Please donÂ’t buy a radiation detector unless you know how to use one or you get decent training. The cheap meters are pretty worthless for giving you any kind of useful information. They have needles that swing all over the place which you may likely interpret falsely and scare the beejeebers out of yourself for no reason. Also they are incapable of detecting the extremely small quantities of radioactive material that might come from a nuclear plant accident that is halfway around the world. Here in the US, I was able to detect radioactive material from Chernobyl – with a $30,000 radiation detector, but none of my less expensive detectors could do it. I never saw anything from TMI even with the expensive detector.

Note this: radioactive materials are chemicals that will behave however the chemical normally behaves.  In a radiological accident, about the only way you can get exposed to the chemical is from airborne distribution.  If the accident is halfway around the world, don't sweat it.  If the accident is close to home, use that duct tape to seal whatever enclosure you are in (home, car, etc) to prevent air exchanges until the danger is past.  I've got more tips, but applying a little common sense to this tip will go a long way to keeping you safe. 

111 The first piece of prep you need to do is to get your head screwed on right. On a daily basis, ponder where you draw your personal us/them line based on various shitty scenarios and what you know about human nature, and think deeply about what it will take to enforce that line. If I see X, then I do Y because of Z. If you have enough Z's figured out beforehand, then you can do the Y's without hesitation.

112 Woot!  Our kid made it out of Tokyo.  We're picking him up in Atlanta late tonight.  Hope he's not glowing.

113 Don't forget the rolls of tinfoil for making hats and underwear.

114 Does anybody know a lot about Japan?  Ever lived there?  I have a question.

115

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 14, 2011 10:28 AM (UOM4

Good for you, Jane.

116

I was just looking up what my wife likes, so I put "my wife likes" into Bing. 

Apparently, my wife likes having sex with black men and other women while people watch and someone is beating her.

117

#117,

Wonderful news.

118 RE: Potassium Iodide/Iodate should only be taken as a last resort when contamination is imminent. 130mg dose per day for adults. 65mg for children.10 days maximum.

Topical Iodine or tincture of Iodine is poisonous if taken internally. DO NOT TAKE IODINE INTERNALLY.

We now return you to your regular scheduled Moronfest.

and God Bless America.

119 121, lucky you.

120 119, been many times, and have two business partners (one retired) there, if that helps.

121

Just think, everyone though Khadaffy was dead meat a few weeks ago, now it looks like he's going to come out just fine.

That was when a No-Fly Zone would have been useful. 

Anybody want to take bets that after Khadaffy subdues the rebels that he will be extremely pissed and take up his terrorism-funding, WMD-building ways again?

122 We stocked up on duct tape and plastic sheeting after 9/11, when the gubmint was warning us of all kinds of scary stuff.  I was recently thinking of getting rid of it to make room for more incandescent light bulbs.  Guess I'll hang on to it.  Just in case.

123 Anybody want to take bets that after Khadaffy subdues the rebels that he will be extremely pissed and take up his terrorism-funding, WMD-building ways again? 

Hey, watch this drive!

124 Just buy Bourbon, it's all you will need.

125 Heh. Hemmer just, like, totally ignored the New Madrid fault on his map discussing nuclear power and earthquakes.

126 117 Hope he's not glowing.
________

At least it would make him stand out in a crowd.

127 When Dol. Daffy got serious I knew it was all over. He will be chairing the UN council on human rights in a couple of months. Just watch.

128 Posted by: Leg at March 14, 2011 10:27 AM (wQavC)

I started to mention something about people who were allergic to KI but it is rare and the people who are should already know it because they can't use normal table salt.

But as for the tablets themselves and whether they work or not I always figured they were more or less a placebo for the masses. Theory says it should do some good though if used correctly.

Just like the average little "m" moron thinks that putting on anti-c clothing protects you from radiation exposure.

129

Chinese officials have requested extra compensation for the families of Chinese students killed by the Christchurch earthquake. They say ChinaÂ’s one-child policy means the families will face long-term economic hardship.

Some scientists are saying AGW causes earthquakes.
New Zealand ratified on 19 December 2002. China never did, so China brought on this earthquake by not ratifying Kyoto.
China has only themselves to blame. China should pay the families for their failure.

I guess if you don’t believe in God, then there is no such thing as an “Act of God”

130 What is the difference between decay heat after shutdown and  nuclear reaction?  I keep reading that with the control rods in, there is no nuclear reaction--but that there is decay heat, and that is what needs to be dealt with.

Are they saying there's so much heat in the metal that it takes that long to cool off?

131 Just think, everyone though Khadaffy was dead meat a few weeks ago, now it looks like he's going to come out just fine.

It turns out that Barry's got his back.

132

#133,

No offense, but there's no "gloomy stuff" there. TEPCO is reported (by a very 2nd rate news agency, FWIW) to have reported that there was no fluid above some number of rods (exactly how that info was devined is never quite explained) for a short period of time. Is this "Bad"? Certainly. Is it TEOTWAWKI ? Not even close. Please, scaremonger elsewhere...

133 I keep reading that with the control rods in, there is no nuclear reaction--but that there is decay heat, and that is what needs to be dealt with.

With the control rods inserted there is no "fission" reaction. However, once fission has occurred it produced radioactive elements that decay. Decay of those elements produces heat. It literally takes years to decay to the point that cooling is no longer required. Eben then it still produces heat, it is just at a rate that is so low that radiant heat transfer will remove enough of it that the fuel will not overheat.

The amount of decay heat is high initially but rapidly goes down. After a day it is at a low level but the rate of decline is very low.

134 Damn. Just watched the Tsunami footage from the side bar. That really sucks. Foutunately the Japanese are experienced with quakes and waves, so the death toll, while it will run into the thousands, will not run into the millions like it would in a Moose-limb (it's Allah's will, after all) shithole.

135 een many times, and have two business partners (one retired) there, if that helps.

Okay, I've seen in still shots of Japan what appears to be an earthen structure--probably man-made, but I don't know--in the middle of a coastal city.  It's a hill.  It has the cross-section of a volcano or a pimple. 

On Google Earth, I zoomed in and found that the top was flat and square.  In a before pic, it's a green blob.  In an after pic, it's been stripped of all vegetation, and it stands out because, well, it was standing up high and getting battered.

Take a look at the last video I linked in the sidebar.  There's a moment where you get a good idea of what the photographer is standing on.  He pans the camera around and up, and you can see the stairs lead to the top of a hill, where people are standing behind a railing.

Are these structures tsunami refuges?  Built as a place for people to run to when the warning siren starts?

One reason I ask is because that aforementioned hill?  It was wiped clean.  The tsunami topped it.  It's obvious from the after pic.

I'll find a link for the before/after.

136 I keep reading that with the control rods in, there is no nuclear reaction--but that there is decay heat, and that is what needs to be dealt with.

The fission reaction no longer occurs, but other elements in the fuel decay and produce heat.

From the bravenewclimate article:

But a number of intermediate radioactive elements are created by the uranium during its fission process, most notably Cesium and Iodine isotopes, i.e. radioactive versions of these elements that will eventually split up into smaller atoms and not be radioactive anymore. Those elements keep decaying and producing heat.

137 #138 - the short answer? Yes. Days.

138 My nuclear knowledge can kick your nuclear knowledge's ass.

139

pg 186, The Survival Guide - What to do in a biological, chemical, or nuclear emergency by Angelo Acquista, MD.

Radioactive iodine 131.  "In this case, potassium iodine is the appropriate emergency treatment for those in the vicinity (at least within a 10-mile radius)."

For another source of potassium iodine tablets, cheap sticky dosimeters, and even a keychain radiation detector - http:// www. ki4u. com /   This site has a lot of info about fallout, shelter, food, and other things of itnerest.

140 BTW, the reactors in those Japanese plants were made by ...

GE !!!

How long before the MBM gets a memo to lay off the hysteria?

141

#146 - ??? You're repeating misquoted reports. Deal w/it.

RDB, I don't know - the vid pans past at least one sign, but I can't make anything out. I'll ask around, though.

If that location was indeed washed away, then one can only pray for the souls seen in the video. Very sad.

142 Plans?  Explain this thing called plans.

143  Okay, here is the tsunami refuge thing (I think).  Fourth picture down.  Hover your cursor to move the before/after boundary line.  The hill is right of center and halfway down.  It's the brighter, dirt-colored spot in the after picture.  In the after pic, you'll notice a long white building near the middle and a blue building southwest of that.  The hill forms the other side of an equilateral triangle, above and between the other two landmarks.  See it? 

Now look at a closeup on Google Earth.  Paste these coordinates into the Google Earth search window:  38°10'20.86"N 140°57'13.74"E   (You can also just google it and then click on the map and zoom in.)  See the stairs and the open, flat area on top?

My guess is that this is a tsunami refuge, and that, sadly, it didn't work--at least in the case of the town of Yuriage.

144 Though it may reduce my odds of winning if an onslaught of morons enter this, I'll post the link anyways.

1yr emergency food supply for one giveaway

And just a side note: Is it any more nuts to collect survival items than it is to collect Obama memorabilia or commemorative plates?

145 Jess, he turns the camera all the way around.  You can see the people above him on the hill.

146 It is beyond my comprehension why portable pumps and generators cannot be brought in PDQ. Fucking Komatsu comes to mind. Sakes.

147

OK, my daughter and her hubby are moving to Long Beach California in a few weeks - so I must remember to tell her to pack duct tape, iodine tablets and gas masks - the bourbon she can get there cheap duty free at the airport

My son is also thinking of moving to Texas because of a job offer, and he really made me happy when he told me about the Yellowstone volcano being thousands of years overdue for a big eruption and which has been forecast to wipe out most of the US!

I'll turn into a mad alcoholic mummy while worrying about my offspring over there!

 

 

148 Fixed the link in #152.

149 Awesome news Jane!  Give him a hug from all of us...and a great big THANK YOU!

PS - I posted this in TH, but I think you'll appreciate it, Jane:

video of Toby Keith talking about singing for the USO and singing for our heroes.

Damn, made me cry.

Thank you Toby.  God bless you!  May God protect our defenders of freedom.

150 At least they're avoiding the bush fires and flooding, aussie!

151 "I don't want to stop the building of nuclear power plants," independent Senator Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said on the CBS program "Face the Nation."

"But I think we've got to kind of quietly put, quickly put the brakes on until we can absorb what has happened in Japan as a result of the earthquake and the tsunami and then see what more, if anything, we can demand of the new power plants that are coming on line," Lieberman added.

FFS, you fucking dolt, the brakes ALREADY ARE ON. When was the last nuke plant built in the US? Not to mention that the Fukushima plants are two or three design generations behind what might be built now, if anything was, which it isn't, because the FUCKING BRAKES ARE ON.

152 This is a hell of a lot of displaced people:

more than a half-million people have been displaced by growing radiation fears and the massive swath of destruction.

153 Yet another formatting fail. sigh

154 Fox did a story about a half hour ago that claimed that one of the plants on the Cali coast has tons of redundancy built in.It can, they claim, withstand a hit from a jet airplane. However, if compromised, it has three different backup cooling systems: diesel, battery and gravity.

I can't remember the name of the facility but immediately after that story there was a young woman that was interviewed who calmly stated that it's not as rosy as all that.

155 Oh, and posted this at the last thread and then realized I was the only one there:

I clicked over to watch the vids in the sidebar but this, that I watched last night, is far more awe-inspiring and is shot from an angle that sends the message that a tsunami is NOT a mere wave.

The SOB is unrelenting and nothing stands a chance against it.

We didn't have shots such as these with the tsunami in Indonesia, only the shots of the big "waves" coming in. For those fools who think it will simply break and return to sea, see this.

Check out the speed, and then notice the highway to the top right of the screen at about the 52 sec mark.

It only gets worse from there.

156 OT

At 103, he's a three-wheeled wonder

157
I'm fully prepared with duct tape, potable water, MRE's, food for Gizmo,   Elvis and self, and recently secured my 2nd grade desk under which I practiced the nuclear drill in 1947.  Bring it on Ruskies Mussies!

158

159 andycanuck

Mmm but we're in deepest darkest bland nothing ever happens here suburbia - last momentous event here was an American pilot crashing his plane in the local park during WW11

 

 

 

159 There was a study about potassium iodide done after Chernobyl accident. The only country that immediately distributed KI pills was Poland, and their population experienced significantly lower thyroid problems than other countries in the radiation plume. The conclusion was that it does work, particularly with children. Apparently they have a higher uptake/excretion rate than adults.

160
164

Yeah, that's horrifying footage.

Imagine being on that highway trying to get away.

161

163 Whatever.   The design can survive a jet crashing into it because out in the desert they built a wall to those specifications, slapped a surplus F-4 to a rocket sled, and crashed the F-4 into the wall.  Wall was fine, the F-4 was in tiny bits.

Now if the contractors actually built the wall of that nuclear plant in CA to those specifications is another question.

162 Imagine being on that highway trying to get away.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 14, 2011 11:16 AM (EDSBe)

That one car just pulls of to the side of the road.  Sad.

163
Check out the speed, and then notice the highway to the top right of the screen at about the 52 sec mark.

It only gets worse from there. 


Heart breaking.  Seeing all those cars trying to escape.  Damn.

164 I hate my sock.  Really.

165 It's the tsunami and earthquake that are displacing the hundreds of thousands of people, momma, not feared radiation venting.

And Ontario's CANDU atomic plants are made to withstand an commercial jet crash, too, whatever, so California probably has the same standard.

166 That one car just pulls of to the side of the road.  Sad.

It's pretty unbelievable. It looked as if some people just pulled over and gave in to it and others were trying to drive over the fields. I kept wondering, why aren't there more roads leading away from the shore, rather than running parallel to it?

167 The weather babe on Fox has some biguns don't she?

168 It's the tsunami and earthquake that are displacing the hundreds of thousands of people, momma, not feared radiation venting.


Oh, no that wasn't what I meant.  I guess my comment looked a little moronic (get it80) didn't it?

I just meant that that is a shit load of people and we haven't heard any stories of violence, protests, men with machetes, rapes, violence, the gov't hates Japs stories.

169 My spouse was near 3 Mile Island as a teenager... and died of leukemia a decade ago. The question remains no matter what.

170 I worked within a 15 minute drive of TMI. Not scary at all. . . except the truckers on the interstates.

171

RDB,

I wonder if the person taking the video survived...

As to the site - I'm fairly sure (99%) that's a "Kofun", part local shrine & ancient burial mound, likely somewhere @ 1000 years old. IIRC, fairly common in that part of Japan.

172

RDB... sorry, old sockpuppet popped back in...

173 As to the site - I'm fairly sure (99%) that's a "Kofun", part local shrine & ancient burial mound, likely somewhere @ 1000 years old. IIRC, fairly common in that part of Japan.

Jess, I looked closer and noticed three monument type things.  So I bet you're right. 

174 and recently secured my 2nd grade desk under which I practiced the nuclear drill in 1947.  Bring it on Ruskies Mussies!

Back to Basics, Fish. I like that.

Meanwhile, we're all contributing to our most favored charitable organizations responding to the tragedies.

Speaking of natural disasters, let's tackle the American public education system. Refine the reading, manual writing, mental calculation and physical exertion skills of American youth. Aside from cutting out overhead federal bureaucracy and administration, limit elementary educational tax funding to what trained the most prosperous American generation ever: desks, blackboards, pencils and paper. Look at the immense prosperity that accompanied such an old fashioned public education.
 

175 I went into streetview.  Looks like it's 20-25 feet high.

176 I don't think that is far enough away from the ocean to be a tsunami refuge.

177 Oh!  I can see the monuments too.  In streetview.

178 From WNN here is how the EDG fuel oil got contaminated with water which caused the loss of emergency power:

The tsunami wave that hit the plant measured at least 7 metres in height, compared to the maximum 6.5 metre case the plant was designed to cope with.

The wave was higher than design specs. 

179 Geez.  I just realized that all the homes and buildings I see in streetview are gone.  Google Streetview is going to become a record of the history of that village.

180 @76 Ben, Sorry about late reply. pH should be between 5.5 and 5.2 or so for blue. I think adding aluminum sulfate usually does the trick

181 Sorry, momma, I see your point now.

182 176 The weather babe on Fox has some biguns don't she?
_________

Yes. Yes, she does.

183 msnbc had a concerned scientist speaking of three individuals in Idaho, to be forever encased in lead tombs following an incident where the reactor lept into the air.

It's my job to take all things into consideration.  As it is, I have appointed Sister Betty as my Concerned Scientist Czar to research this matter.

184

Google Streetview is going to become a record of the history of that village.

That's truly incredible. I wonder what the survivors will think of those images?

185 I have been ready since after 9-11. everything needed to save my family in the case of a nuclear accident or attack. People from the start have called me crazy for my preparations. But. I would rather be called crazy than have my family be called dead.

Included Gas masks, NBC suits, gas masks, potassium iodide,geiger counters  water purification, batteries, duct tape (lots of duct tape) Portable solar chargers, generator, extra fuel, maps, (EMP will make your GPS useless as all electronics will be), Two escape plans. Oh ya, and a 1.5 year supply of food on hand at all times.

People take it for granted that everything will always be alright or thats what the government is for (remember Katerina).

So, Who is crazy? The man who is ready to protect his family or the man who say "It could never happen to me"?

186 153 And just a side note: Is it any more nuts to collect survival items than it is to collect Obama memorabilia or commemorative plates?
_________

Hmm. I'm sensing a business opportunity here. Consider this: Obama commemorative survival items!

187 And just a side note: Is it any more nuts to collect survival items than it is to collect Obama memorabilia or commemorative plates?

I still have my 'W' highball glass set from 2000. Never even took them out of the box.

188 Got the public tour of the Diablo Canyon generating plant as it was under construction on the central CA coast. With pride, the guide explained the various safety precautions being built in with care. Then he talked trash about the Rancho Seco plant (now closed), inland near Sacramento - Something like "... those guys built sloppy, you can still hear a valve that busted loose rattle when it flows through the pipes...". He got a funny look on his face when he realized what he let slip, and that he was representing the entire industry, not just the plant he worked at.

189 198 Looking for help from the UN?

Perhaps they can send that douchebag Hans Blix over to check on the fuel rod status.

190 Request for speculation from any member of the AoS nuke crew: Are the references to falling water levels in reactor vessels simply referring to coolant boiling away faster than the (apparently improvised) makeup can restore it? Or indicative of some leakage issues?

191 Request for speculation from any member of the AoS nuke crew: Are the references to falling water levels in reactor vessels simply referring to coolant boiling away faster than the (apparently improvised) makeup can restore it? Or indicative of some leakage issues?

One of the reports from last night said that they had lost two out of the three fire trucks they were feeding with due to the second H2 explosion and that they were having to alternate feed between the three units. So yes, the level will decrease when the stop feeding it.

That is if that report can be trusted. Neither the TEPCO press releases nor the links at WNN discuss this.

192 The WNN site has a link that says they did temporarily suspend feeding of sea water because of another aftershock and potential tsunami arriving.

193 Take a look at the last video I linked in the sidebar.  There's a moment where you get a good idea of what the photographer is standing on.  He pans the camera around and up, and you can see the stairs lead to the top of a hill, where people are standing behind a railing.


When I first clicked on the vid I thought it was the same one Drew (?) tweeted last night.  It isn't.  I'm really glad (sad, that I watched it) you asked a question about it, or I wouldn't have clicked it again and found out it was the complete video. 

There really are no words . . .

194 The tsunami wave that hit the plant measured at least 7 metres in height, compared to the maximum 6.5 metre case the plant was designed to cope with.

The wave was higher than design specs. 

Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 11:44 AM (M9Ie6)

I think ALL design specs were exceeded in this event, incredible that the plants are doing as well as they are.  Kudos to the operators!

195 Downscale, you mean 1, 2, and 3?   #4 has been shutdown for maintenance since before the earthquake..

196 I also have a gas mask and iodine tablets, not because I think the worst will happen, but because I use them during situations dressed as a Nazi, while my wife plays the Jew temptress I have my way with after the showers. Anti-semitic necrophilia, I wouldn't have thought of it without the Internet. Her safe word is: "?" Safe words, we don't need no stinking safe words!

197 Don't confuse the two sites. The Fukushima Daichi site has 6 reactors, two of which were shutdown for routine maintenance when the earthquake hit.

The Fukushima Daini had 4 plants all which are fine with offsite power available.

198 New nuke thread up.

199 Arriving late, so this may be redundant, but it is critical any gas mask you purchase have the date of manufacture on it. The rubber parts will lose effectiveness as they age. Quality masks will ship with a parts list so you are able to replace them. Sadly, 20.00 Israeli surplus masks are usually surplus for a reason. Ditto with NBC filters. You get what you pay for.

200 I live in South Carolina.  Thank you for this post, we will certainly look into getting prepared should the worse ever happen here.

201 If you can, dig up a used copy somewhere of an old Ace paperback, SYSTEMIC SHOCK. Forget the crap skiffy cover, it's a collection of improvised shelter and filtration techniques by Dean Ing that are readily improvised and effective.

202 @178 - That's unfortunate about your wife. My wife's sister died of brain cancer at the age of 35 and didn't live near any nuclear anything. Correlation does not equal causation. The radiation offsite at TMI was insignificant and could not cause damage to anyone or anything.

203 I can say for the empty suit in the WH who apparently is a clueless schmuck when it comes to a sport he should know. Fashionmonkey.org Coach Outlet Store Online

204 I'm sorry but an ad for american EMT ONLINE ("learn to save people without touching them over teh intrawebs" while watching poor Japanese souls crushed by a billion tons of water is too much to handle. Please stop cashing in on misery. I know its not intentional but it reeks.