1 Sorry I can't imagine a novel that would make a more tedious movie. Dagny Taggart would have been a great role for Madonna 20 years ago.

2 Even if the movie turns out to be one of the best ever produced, it still wouldn't do the book justice.

3 Any truth to the rumors that the Ronulans plan to freep the Academy Awards voting? 

4

Posted by: JC at February 13, 2011 12:11 PM (6QUWP)

No, it probably won't do the book justice.  But this movie tells a story that must be heard in today's world.  The idiot swing voter demographic won't ever pick up the book and read it themselves - it's too dense and too long.  This is the only way to get the story out.

5

I was dreading watching the trailer, but I was very pleasantly surprised.  I may actually buy movie tickets for the first time in years.

BTW blaster, The Lord of the Rings books weren't known for their brevity and snappy pace, either.  Yet the films were terrific.  It can be done.

6

If they repeat the theme of the book the same damned number of times in the movie then expect mass suicides in the theaters.

I still like & respect Ann Rand, but she was obviously writing for liberals as her target audience

7 Well the hard-core libs won't read the book and won't watch the movie - they are too smugly convinced of their own self-righteous correctness.

8
Soothsayer Shrugged...

because he doesn't understand why there's no AoS Sunday Answer Man^tm thread.

9

Some great works of art, do not translate into other mediums... some do...

Most poetry does not do well as a movie... yet the movie "Gunga Din" did catch the spirit of the poem... Beowulf? Fail...

Books are also hit and miss...Where as "Starship Troopers" was an epic Fail IMO... Jacksons' Lord of the Rings was well done...

Part of the problem is that Philosophy does not lend itself well to the Silver Screen...

10 I'm already disappointed with the trailer from the next part.

11
Sunday Potpourri^tm

'potpourri' is a Swahili word for 'inanity and silly things the white man will buy'

12

It's Hollywood..

..John Galt will turn out to be a Global Warmist and will shut down industry to save the planet

13
Prince of Tides was a good book...and then an awful movie.

Misery was a great book and a shitty movie.

14

I don't know why people say the Starship Troopers movie was an epic fail.  The message I got from the movie was that individual human lives are worth nothing, that individuals can and should be sacrified for the glory of an omnipotent militaristic state.  Which is more or less what I got out of the book too.  I guess I need to reread the book, it has been a while.  But I enjoyed the movie.

Now, the two sequels.... umm... those were just weird

15 I got bored w/ the trailer - too obvious. I was hoping for more, je ne sais quoi.... oh well.

16
The Godfather was a good book and then a great film.

17 Obviously, the film will need some help from our friends in Washington.

18 When was Atlas Shrugged written again?  The whole emphasis on railroads seems really bizarre and out of place now.  It's like the government was hatching an evil scheme to take over the dirigible industry.

19 Part 1????

Is this another multi-part movie? Shit, the book could have been edited down by 50% or they going to do the same with the movie?

20
I'm so hungry I could the eat the ass out of a skunk.

21 Dagny Taggarts railroad will be high speed...and instead of using Readen Metal, she'll just import the rails made of steel from recyled washing machines from China

22 High Speed Rail!!

23 I don't know...I did not hate the Starship Troopers movie, and am still displeased that Peter Jackson turned Faramir into an emo and Aragorn into a grungy Hamlet.

Gimli as buffoon was a bit annoying, and Pippin/Merry as feckless layabouts was the same.

24

The whole emphasis on railroads seems really bizarre and out of place now. 

Except for the high-speed choo-choos!  Those will save the planet!!!!

25

Posted by: chemjeff at February 13, 2011 12:23 PM (GaLxs)

May want to reread the book then...

It had everything from parenting tips... to a discusion on Political systems... to a very good description of why men fight (large grand philosophies tend to go by the wayside when you are in the Suck... you are fighting for your buddies, and unit... and survival).

 

26

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 13, 2011 12:29 PM (AdK6a)

Okay, well being a single guy I guess I wasn't so interested in the parenting tips section...  I'll put it on my stack of books to read

27 18 When was Atlas Shrugged written again?  The whole emphasis on railroads seems really bizarre and out of place now.  It's like the government was hatching an evil scheme to take over the dirigible industry.
--------
So, now I'm thinking that all the emphasis on high-speed trains in the state of the union speech was just the Hollywood hype machine going into overdrive to prepare us for Atlas Shrugged: The Movie.

28

I don't know why people say the Starship Troopers movie was an epic fail.  The message I got from the movie was that individual human lives are worth nothing, that individuals can and should be sacrified for the glory of an omnipotent militaristic state.  Which is more or less what I got out of the book too.  I guess I need to reread the book, it has been a while.  But I enjoyed the movie.

Now, the two sequels.... umm... those were just weird

Posted by: chemjeff at February 13, 2011 12:23 PM (GaLxs)

Didn't get "militaristic" out of it.  What other reaction could a civilization have?

No movie with a young Denise Richards and Dina Meyers' boobies could be an epic fail.  But it could have been a ton better.  I was really looking forward to seeing the power suits from the book.  Laaaame!

29 19 Part 1????

Is this another multi-part movie? Shit, the book could have been edited down by 50% or they going to do the same with the movie?
---------
Part 2 will be John Galt reading his speech. They'll probably have to cut it a bit.

30 1.  Entice the states and rent-seeking big business to build high speed rail lines hither and thon.
2.  Keep making gasoline more expensive and air travel inconvenient and annoying to the point where taking the train is actually a reasonable option.
3. Nationalize the whole thing.

Rand, you magnificent bastard, I read your book.  OK, only the cliff notes, but still...

31 Part 1? 

Meh.

No cameo for Biden?  He likes trains.

32 23 I don't know...I did not hate the Starship Troopers movie, and am still displeased that Peter Jackson turned Faramir into an emo and Aragorn into a grungy Hamlet...

IMO, it was far worse to have Faramir take the ring instead of showing a condensed trial of Frodo and Sam. Faramir was actually a rather troubled soul in some ways and there was no need further dramatize the character due to this strange idea that Faramir was perfect.

33 Watched the trail. Based on that I won't be seeing the movie. Maybe if the train was a rocket and they were trying to beat the government to an asteroid that had some McGuffin.

34 Didn't much care for it. I've seen better examples of "Atlas Shrugged" on YouTube, under "Who is John Galt?"

35 I forgot where I read this, but I believe one reason that this is only Part 1 is that (a) it's a really really long book, (b) they were actually trying to be faithful to the book, and (c) there was an issue about the production rights being about to expire so they had to rush it a bit to get the film going before the rights expired.

36 Not knowing anything about the book other than the broad notion of man being his own worst enemy, I take away from the trailer the allegory of a speeding train (the economy and man's ability to innovate) being slowed down by the ones who would want a piece of the action while only marginally earning it. Reading the story of the Little Red Hen could have save Ayn Rand a lot of time and bother.

37 "" The Lord of the Rings books weren't known for their brevity and snappy pace, either."


I went my whole life without reading that damn thing. Then one day I said well I have to. this was only a few years before the movies came out. When I got done with that book I wanted to stick a knife in corpse of the fucker who wrote it.

Over 1000 pages describing every fucking last footstep the characters took, from how their shoes kicked up a pebble, and how a pebble rolls down a hill, and affects a small piece of dirt, and how the dirt feels about having a fucking pebble roll on it and what the sun looks like as its all happening, and the sun on every fucking leaf.....Oh wait, the character took a new step and turned the corner..weeeeeee now we can describe how the tree looks from THIS side, and maybe he'll reach his hand in  his pocket, and we'll get 10 pages on the thread used to make his pocket, and god forbid if he finds a piece of lint, thats another chapter, oh we can bring in the sun, and how the sun shines on the fucking lint.....

fuck that book.

38 At least now I wont have to read the book.

39
Over 1000 pages describing every fucking last footstep the characters took, from how their shoes kicked up a pebble, and how a pebble rolls down a hill, and affects a small piece of dirt, and how the dirt feels about having a fucking pebble roll on it and what the sun looks like as its all happening, and the sun on every fucking leaf.....Oh wait, the character took a new step and turned the corner..weeeeeee now we can describe how the tree looks from THIS side, and maybe he'll reach his hand in  his pocket, and we'll get 10 pages on the thread used to make his pocket, and god forbid if he finds a piece of lint, thats another chapter, oh we can bring in the sun, and how the sun shines on the fucking lint.....


I thought the elvish poetry was too much, and I skipped a bunch of that stuff. I didn't mind most of the detail and I thoroughly enjoyed the series.

40 Did I see Armin Shimmerman in the trailer?

That is awesome.  I hope he breaks into full Andrew Ryan voice at some point.

41

Which is more or less what I got out of the book too. I guess I need to reread the book, it has been a while. But I enjoyed the movie.

Now, the two sequels.... umm... those were just weird

Posted by: chemjeff at February 13, 2011 12:23 PM (GaLxs)

Umm, yeah, you should re-read the book if that's all you got from it. Even though I'm not a big fan of the book, it was heavy-handed and lumpen, lecturing and character and plot got the short shrift.

I thought the movie was largely pathetic, but not as bad as a lot of what passes for science fiction. Certainly no worse than average, but average, in that field, is kind of horrifying.

I only saw one of the sequels and it was disjointed, incompetently didactic, and pointlessly gory.

For some reason, when it comes to sci-fi, if a book is pretty much universally accepted as a classic and the author is not crazy, it's pretty rare for a movie to come from it. It's almost like controversy is more important to the movie-making decision than competence.

42

36 Not knowing anything about the book other than the broad notion of man being his own worst enemy,

Oh it's a lot more than that.

43 Me thinks I should read it first

44 Over 1000 pages describing every fucking last footstep....

LOL, When I first read that book as a child I thought Tolkien was a Russian writer based on the name and the literary style.

45 ""Did I see Armin Shimmerman in the trailer?

yes, maybe he'll do a full Quark, and start quoting ferengi rules of acquisition.

46 An interview with the director and the cast

47

JeffBRIDGES did it better in the MOVIE where the guy invented a cool car and was shut ut of the market by SPECIAL INTERESTS.

48 I read the LOTR back in the 80's before cable came to the hinterlands. I liked it a lot. Not as  good as the hobbit, but better then the alternatives. The history, traditions, and songs of a place that did not exist were a bit much.

49 I'm kind of giggling at all the people talking about other movies that were better.

Umm, you've seen this new, unreleased movie already?

50

The book was excellent -- if you skipped large segments of it.

Unlike most books you, could make a good movie out of Atlas Shrugged by severely condensing it.

51 I would think a successful movie of Atlas Shrugged would almost have to be based on the Reader's Digest or Cliff's Notes version of the book.

Sometimes people get a little confounded by the process, but a movie is just not a book on film.

52 I'm kind of wondering if it might have been more effective as a period piece. Quite often it's easier to make commentary on modern life when you present your principles in another setting.

53 49 I'm kind of giggling at all the people talking about other movies that were better.

Umm, you've seen this new, unreleased movie already?

Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at February 13, 2011 12:47 PM (bxiXv)

Wasn't talking about the movie, was talking about the movie trailer. Yeah, i've seen videos on YouTube that would make better movie trailers than the movie trailer they produced. 

54 I'm a great fan of Tolkien and his mythology but his works can indeed be too "nerdy" for some readers. You have to love languages, ancient mythologies, and story-telling in order to completely enjoy reading him.

55 I think the LOTR book I read might have been whole deal, but i'm not sure. There were like 6 books listed in the table of contents. Those seemed to be under 3 major titles, Fellowship of the ring, The two towers, and The returning of. the king.

I have no clue if there are any more "books" to the story, or any other books in general. It was one of the few books that actually pissed me off while reading it.

56 ""You have to love languages, ancient mythologies, and story-telling in order to completely enjoy reading him.""


I like all that, its why I like the "quest" type video games, spent years on dead languages nowbody will ever use, etc etc, but damn, if frodo blew a fart we get 10 pages on the disruption of air current. Man it was a rough read.

57 I could be convinced to use my considerable influence in promoting this movie, but it would cost a lot to get me to give up my current work in the ethanol industry.

58
I have no clue if there are any more "books" to the story, or any other books in general. It was one of the few books that actually pissed me off while reading it.

Posted by: Berserker at February 13, 2011 12:53 PM (gWHrG)

My recollection is that the first book was "the Hobbit." Followed by "Felloship of the ring", "The two towers", and "Return of the King." 

Tolkein also wrote some other stuff in the Middle earth world. I think one of them was called "Farmer Giles of ham," and another was "Silmarillion". not as good as his Ring series, but decent reading.

59 If you want to see the movie, go ahead.  I'll be working on Project X and Global Warming models.  After all, it's "science".

60 fuck that book. Posted by: Berserker at February 13, 2011 12:38 PM (gWHrG) Dude, that was righteous. You just saved me a big headache.

61 56 I like all that, its why I like the "quest" type video games, spent years on dead languages nowbody will ever use, etc etc, but damn, if frodo blew a fart we get 10 pages on the disruption of air current. Man it was a rough read.

He can be overly poetic at times but I don't specifically recall too many instances where I thought he was in Moby Dick or Great Expectations territory when it comes to descriptives. Some of the longer passages are also laments, which people used to give in further detail in times past. But culture has largely moved past this, as many people want something short and sweet. 

62

B-level fiction make the best adaptations, e.g., Godfather and Jaws. "Great" novels rarely make great movies. Though not sure what kind of novel Atlas was. I just found it turgid and boring.

 

 

63 Berserker:

I am laughing here. LOTR has long been one of my favorites. This year I decided to read it to my two children, ages 7 and 9. Holy hell, you think it is long reading, try reading it out loud! Describing a single hillside in vivid detail spanning two pages was too much for my kids to take.

At one point as I was reading, I came upon one of the Elvish poetry sections, paused, and decided to skip it. My 7-year-old daughter leaned over, looked at the three pages, and turned to my son and said, "Ugh. It's another poem about Elbereth Gilthoniel."

We are on indefinite hiatus from LOTR.

64 The book Starship Troopers was written in 1959, a time when nuclear war was an ever present danger. Heinlein felt that in order to vote, you should serve in the military or do some other form of public service. I've seen the same concept expressed here. It's about having some skin in the game.
 
If that seems militaristic, chemjeff, then so be it. But at least let me remind you of the 52%ers first.
 
I won't go to the theater to see Atlas, but I will probably buy the dvd if they haven't butchered it too badly.

65 60 Dude, that was righteous.

You just saved me a big headache.

^ This is a good example of what I mean*. People nowadays prefer brief statements instead of 2pp waxing lyrical-- which is interesting because this wasn't always a part of even American culture. I wonder when that changed?


_{*Just an observation; no offense intended.}

66 So this book is about high speed rail?

67 ""Describing a single hillside in vivid detail spanning two pages was too much for my kids to take.""



That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. I mean really,I love when an author allows you to really "see" in you mind what they are describing, but this fuck had me seeing termites in the roots of trees by the time he got done.

68

Dude, that was righteous.

You just saved me a big headache.

Posted by: eman:The People's Front of Logprof at February 13, 2011 01:07 PM (gZVTR)

Skip it and read Bored of the Rings. Now that's a good book.

69 Ok i have some "I know Hollywood" gripes. My ex was a man who produced and edited blockbuster type Movie trailers. I know good advertising when i see it. he was the evil dude who made Scorpion King look like a plausible good time (He won an award they give for turning a sows ear into a silk purse for that feat) Whoever did this trailer didnt like the movie or was grossly inexperienced. It needed to be more tightly edited. It needed different music. And  Above ALL it needed to TELL A STORY.
Trailer was epic fail in all departments.
If you can make Scorpion king look good you could have made this look Fabulous, edited and scored well enough.

I will watch it again, but my first impression is that the actors didnt get the one thing that made the protagonists Hank Dagny and Francisco INTERESTING and set them apart from everyone else in their world. Stated over and over in the book, they had passion, and this is one of the things that motivated them in business, inventing, rebellion and love. I just didnt see that in the delivery of these actors' lines. It looked kind of like they were phoning in their performances and that they hadnt read the book (or even a synopsis) and really taken the time to understand who their characters were or what motivates them.
The railroad was Dagnys child.
the money Hank made was the measure of his worth, the value of his ideas.
ETC.
anyway will watch again for more insight.

70 One of the most anticipated movies of the decade... coming soon to a state near you, unfortunately.  I'm just hoping I can catch it on DVD.

71 Wesley Mouche is a fine American.

72 Dude, that was righteous. You just saved me a big headache. ^ This is a good example of what I mean*. People nowadays prefer brief statements instead of 2pp waxing lyrical-- which is interesting because this wasn't always a part of even American culture. I wonder when that changed? *Just an observation; no offense intended. Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at February 13, 2011 01:17 PM (iMgAa) None taken. Good writing stimulates your imagination and is best when brief.

73 "Anthem" would make a great sci-fi movie.

74 Good writing stimulates your imagination and is best when brief.

Posted by: eman:The People's Front of Logprof at February 13, 2011 01:30 PM (gZVTR)

well the problem is that Ayn Rand was russian and they dont tend to brief. I was saying i think the other night Russian language functions so differently than ours that i  (came from eastern European Family) read the book at 13 in 2 weeks and thought it brilliant. Didnt think it wordy at all.
Have you read The Gulag Archpelego? three volume over 600 pages at a pop.

But if you think the Russian classics arent good writing then thats ok. We all have our tastes. I agree generaly that most books read for pleasure come from the less is more school. But Tolkien didnt. Neither did many other classics. I think in many ways its like a taste for Impressionist paintings vs Minimalist modern art, and all of that vs Renaissance realism.

75 But if you think the Russian classics arent good writing then thats ok. We all have our tastes. I agree generaly that most books read for pleasure come from the less is more school. But Tolkien didnt. Neither did many other classics. I think in many ways its like a taste for Impressionist paintings vs Minimalist modern art, and all of that vs Renaissance realism. Posted by: Gushka at February 13, 2011 01:39 PM (93zw2) "Good writing stimulates your imagination and is best when brief". As you can see, I did not say it was not good.

76

One difference is writing from 50, or 100 years ago... is one of style...

They had to use many more words to describe somthing "abnormal" back then, because peoples worldview was so small...

Today? Everyone has seen pictures of the Taj Mahal... or you can easily find a picture of it... Then? They had to describe it in detail to set the scene, because people did not have access to that visual information.

Writing was not just there to tell a story, as it is now, but also to expand your world... allowing you to visualize scenes or scenarios beyond what the readers normal imagination would allow...

77 Looks boring and if a trailer looks boring things are not good.

Tons of libertarians will go on the first weekend, along with lots of in the know conservatives, but after word of mouth gets out that it is - well, boring - it will tank.

I imagine it will do well on DVD though.

78

64 The book Starship Troopers was written in 1959, a time when nuclear war was an ever present danger. Heinlein felt that in order to vote, you should serve in the military or do some other form of public service. I've seen the same concept expressed here. It's about having some skin in the game.
 
If that seems militaristic, chemjeff, then so be it. But at least let me remind you of the 52%ers first.

I don't like Heinlein's idea for the same reason that I don't like the idea of compulsory national "service", or the idea of a draft.  It is just another form of indentured servitude.

Now I do think everyone should have "skin in the game" and I think that should be when we pay our taxes - because we all consume some public services and those who don't pay taxes are freeloaders.  Plus it just enables the looters & moochers in their unholy symbiotic relationship.

79 Gushka: Russian classics are one of the few instances where a work is improved by translating it into English.

According to Heinlein, the originals, in Russian, were even more boring.

80 77 Looks boring and if a trailer looks boring things are not good.

Tons of libertarians will go on the first weekend, along with lots of in the know conservatives, but after word of mouth gets out that it is - well, boring - it will tank.

I imagine it will do well on DVD though.

Posted by: TRO at February 13, 2011 01:56 PM (I6mxF)

could also mean the person who made the trailer hated the movie or was unskilled. Unfortunately that end of the movie business was my life for many years. They can make good movies look bad and bad movies look good.

bad editing is a horrible thing in advertising. a good editor who hates your movie is worse.

81 79 Gushka: Russian classics are one of the few instances where a work is improved by translating it into English.

According to Heinlein, the originals, in Russian, were even more boring.

Posted by: Kristopher at February 13, 2011 02:04 PM (atS82)

According to Phillip K Dick, his friend Heinlein could be boring and sometimes trite too. I stand by my assessment that its all about what you like.

82 It is just another form of indentured servitude.
 
Posted by: chemjeff at February 13, 2011 01:58 PM (GaLxs)
 
That's true, but then again so is paying taxes in a way. Early in US history, owning property was a requirement to have a vote. He didn't say that you had to serve, he said that you had to serve to vote. I have problems with a draft, as I barely lucked out of getting drafted for Vietnam. But there may come another time in our history where a draft is the only answer. It is at least possible. I hope not.
 
I was mainly defending Heinlein for his world view at the time he wrote that book. He became much more libertarian later in life.

83

Today? Everyone has seen pictures of the Taj Mahal... or you can easily find a picture of it... Then? They had to describe it in detail to set the scene, because people did not have access to that visual information.

Writing was not just there to tell a story, as it is now, but also to expand your world... allowing you to visualize scenes or scenarios beyond what the readers normal imagination would allow...

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 13, 2011 01:52 PM (AdK6a)

well said.

this is EXACTLY how i see it.

84 16
The Godfather was a good book and then a great film.

Hunt for Red October was very good as both a book and film.

Sense & Sensibility was a horrible book, as most all Austen is, but a terrific film. 

Taming of the Shrew was fun in both "book" and movie form (the Burton/Taylor version). 

85 Awful trailer.  Explains absolutely nothing about the story to people who haven't read the book and is a confusing, generic, cliched mess.

It's kind of like this.

86 Save yourself from reading the book--just listen to Rush's 2112. It's the best chick-repellent known to man.    

87

I'm wondering how the awkward, contrived dialogue from AS-the book will be translated on the screen.  Frankly, I enjoyed The Fountainhead more, especially the perfunctory sexual encounters that 21-year olds dream of.    

Now the question is--would Ayn Rand support RonPaul?  He does seem like a character from one of her books, namely the recitation of his philosophy in every conversation.  Given the fact that she renounced Libertarians, I'd prolly say no. 

88 "Anthem" would make a great sci-fi movie.

So would "Mass Effect". I heard they were considering making it into a 3 part movie series. I think that it could be our generational star wars if it could be made correctly. However I fear all they will do is plaster on a bunch of old washed up hollywood actors and jam in as much CGI as possible like they did with Transformers and the Star Wars prequels. And I wouldn't be surprised if hollywood tried to shove in their own political agendas into it like they always do. Take Avatar for example. The only signifacant thing notable about the movie was the eye candy CGI. Other than the it was a crappy, incoherent story with the same old "the military is bad" hogwash we get from a hollywood stuck in the 60's

I would like to see Steven Jackson direct it - if simply for the fact that he is one of the view to successfully transfer a book onto the silver screen without ruining it.

89 This might be one of the rare times when a movie is better than the book, if for no other reason that it is inconceivable for anything to be worse than that putrid piece of shit.

90 Sense & Sensibility was a horrible book, as most all Austen is, but a terrific film.

LOL, funny that you should mention that book. On the YAF thread Deety linked to a conference where the conservative regeneracy press said that was one of the better "conservative" books that people should read.

AND one of the authors at the round table trashed the hell out of Ayn Rand. I got the impression he was mainly opposed to her atheist view but he did mention some other things.

91 "This might be one of the rare times when a movie is better than the book, if for no other reason that it is inconceivable for anything to be worse than that putrid piece of shit."

You know what might help? If you actually read it. Now stop trollen

92 I went my whole life without reading that damn thing. Then one day I said well I have to. this was only a few years before the movies came out. When I got done with that book I wanted to stick a knife in corpse of the fucker who wrote it.

Over 1000 pages describing every fucking last footstep the characters took, from how their shoes kicked up a pebble, and how a pebble rolls down a hill, and affects a small piece of dirt, and how the dirt feels about having a fucking pebble roll on it and what the sun looks like as its all happening, and the sun on every fucking leaf.....Oh wait, the character took a new step and turned the corner..weeeeeee now we can describe how the tree looks from THIS side, and maybe he'll reach his hand in  his pocket, and we'll get 10 pages on the thread used to make his pocket, and god forbid if he finds a piece of lint, thats another chapter, oh we can bring in the sun, and how the sun shines on the fucking lint.....

fuck that book.

Posted by: Berserker at February 13, 2011 12:38 PM (gWHrG)


Thread winner of the entire day. 

93 Sometimes people get a little confounded by the process, but a movie is just not a book on film.

Bullshit!

94 You know what might help? If you actually read it. Like Officer Barbrady said, "I read every word of this piece of shit, and I'm never reading again." All right the last part doesn't apply, but I did read every last word of the book. The dialogue is stilted, the action dull, and the plot is dull. It is also NOT a conservative work of philosophy, as I think Whittaker Chamber's observation about the book stands. If you want great books about freedom from the nanny state, read Thomas Sowell, F.A. Hayak, Edmund Burke, and just about anyone else other than Rand.

95 So would "Mass Effect". I heard they were considering making it into a 3 part movie series.

Posted by: JC at February 13, 2011 02:48 PM (6QUWP)

I predict inappropriate relationships with the entire population of the group "canis domesticus" as a result.

Seriously, the games were very frustrating because they were so *almost* *great*, and I predict the attempt to make that into a movie will essentially put all of the worst parts of the games together into one place.

It will be Wing Commander all over again (mind you, about 15 minutes of that tragedy was actually interesting).

96 Paul @ 94, I understand if you don't like Rand's writing style, it does leave a lot to be desired, but it most definitely fits into the conservative tradition especially as it's concerned with freedom from the nanny state.  I can't believe you are recommending Hayek over Rand - I like Hayek too but his books are about 100x drier than anything Rand wrote.  At least Rand's books have plots.  Hayek's works are 100% academic (and therefore 100% dry).

97 Here's the video for the Barbrady quote (which I was a bit off on). It never gets old. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/150385/plucked

98 At least Rand's books have plots. Hayek's works are 100% academic (and therefore 100% dry). It's not even close. Hayak might a bit dry, but for an academic he's actually a fairly easy read. He also has the added benefit of not advocating a subhuman philosophy like objectivism. Again, there are better writers on the topic of human freedom, and ones less noxious than Rand.

99

Condensed Hayek for those who don't wish to toil through the entire book.

BTW, that site has a lot of other outstanding papers

100 Reread Atlas Shrugged, and was dismayed at the parallels between her depiction and our reality. Even a redneck like me saw it.

  The best take-away (for me) was the concept of rational self-interest. Not a bad way to live,imho.

101

Yes, Hayek, for an academic, is easy to read.  But it doesn't have a plot, character development, climax, etc.

Objectivism is subhuman?? Okay, now we are getting to the crux of the argument.  What about it precisely is "subhuman"?

BTW I'm not an Objectivist, but I do have some respect for it.

102 I finished Mass Effect II a few weeks ago, that really was a stellar game. It probably would make a pretty damn cool movie if done right.

Thinking about LOTR again, I was shocked that in the movies they left out the Tom Bombadil character. From what I remember amidst the billion pages of how tree bark bleaches in the sun he was a pretty important character.

103 Chemjeff, I know it's a bit tacky to link back to one's own blog, but here is my review of Atlas Shrugged. It explains why I think objectivism is such a terrible philosophy. http://crankycon.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/a-brief-review-of-atlas-shrugged/ As for Hayak, of course it doesn't have a plot: it's a treatise. But most of the great political writings are treatises, not novels, though certainly there are great works of political fiction. To me great writing is great writing, no matter the style.

104 lol @ Paul. And not a single fuck was given about your pathetic blog post that day.

105

102 I finished Mass Effect II a few weeks ago, that really was a stellar game. It probably would make a pretty damn cool movie if done right.

That's the problem with video game movies though.  They're typically not done right.  XPlay talked about how they want to make "Uncharted" into a movie and their host just ripped, "why get excited?  Its hollywood, they make crappy game movies.  You'll get a bad director that will do nothing right." 

And I think the same goes for Mass Effect.  Yeah you could do a great movie from it, but indications are that won't happen.  The studio will blow its budget on special effects and get a crap director or one who's experience with video games is Pong, or Uwe Boll"  And the movie will disappoint.

And if you've only finished it once then you haven't finished it enough :-p  So many more aliens for you to screw.

106 I read the book 40 years ago and loved it.  I will see the movie too.  Thanks for the trailer Open Blogger.

I also read Prince of Tides and loved it.  I saw the movie, and although it barely resembled the book, I really liked it a lot.  Nick Nolte and Streisand were great.
Perhaps Nolte's best role.  Everything Streisand does is great.  Too bad she's such a  _itch.

107 But Mr. President! It's a movie about a train and I'm not in it!

108 Since most movies suck, I doubt this will be any good, but Atlas Shrugged certainly has the potential to be an interesting movie, and one that's more accessible than the book. Cut out all the reams of explanation about the exact position and state of every limb of a particular person in a room (really, Ayn, do I need to know that Dagny's leg is straight but relaxed, but that relaxation revealed her tension?), you still have a compelling plot and a lot of scenes that would translate really well into the movie, and you've made it much shorter as well.

109

Can't wait to see it. I'm sure it will suck, but I'm looking forward to it anyway. I haven't been to a movie since the Dark Knight came out 2+ years ago, but I will go to the theater to see this.

It will be hard to do this book justice.

Watching the trailer, it looks like they get pretty far into the book. You can see Ellis Wyatt is the one yelling at Dagny, and Hank and Dagny look to be walking through an empty factory,which i am assuming is the old 20th Century motor plant.

110 Ayn Rand? I'd hit it.

111 The best part of this movie: Dagny is not played by Angelina Jolie.

112 Chemjeff and others here, a bit of clarification.

The critical part about Heinlein's political system in Starship Troopers was that the only right not granted is enfranchisement, and in order to get that, all one had to do was volunteer for a 2 year term of service to the military/colonization corps (or, as he intended before the editor got hold, the "civil service"). It may just be nothing more than glorified PT duty, could be testing pressure suits on Europa, or working in a research facility on Pluto. It had to be anything that would leave enough of a lasting impression of the cost of Citizenship.

Militaristic? I never understood how someone could get that from the novel. People are discouraged from signing up, the main character's father condemns the military as a worthless, parasitic organization and in general the right to vote is seen as a minor thing (compare our current voting rates.)

What he was arguing against in '59, that his military was purely volunteer, compared to the draft army of that time. He viewed a draft army as nothing better than slavery.

113 BAFTA awards? How many different ceremonies do these narcissistic assholes need?

114 If you have an hour or so to burn, some guy did a creative series of youtube videos from the audiobook of Galt's Speech. http://tinyurl.com/697zrmv

115 If nobody but hardcore Objectivists, libertarians and free-market capitalists see this movie in NY and LA, it'll still be the biggest grossing independent "art house" movie ever unreeled. Whether it then jumps to bigger chain theaters, who can say? But the actual production costs were so low (separate from the cost of the rights, which won't recur) that it won't be hard to show a profit.

A few theaters may refuse it on philosophical grounds, but most of them can't afford to pass up a film that puts asses in the seats.

116 lol @ Paul. And not a single fuck was given about your pathetic blog post that day.

Wow, how can I answer such a brilliant refutation?  Clearly you are one of those irreplaceable producers that Rand was writing about.

117 I loved LOTR so much that I didn't want it to end. I loved Atlas Shrugged so much that I couldn't wait for it to end. What that means, I'm not sure. When I read Rand's We the Living, I needed antidepressants.

118 "http://crankycon.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/a-brief-review-of-atlas-shrugged/ " Interesting post. I agree that the fatal weakness of Rand's position is her notion that human beings are perfectible if they just follow the "correct" ideas (i.e., her ideas). I don't think human nature is so malleable, and in that sense I believe in Original Sin (man's inherent imperfection). I think we tend to use reason to rationalize behavior we were going to perform anyway, and to justify sentiments that we actually hold for non-logical reasons. I also think that Rand's insistence on left-brain logical reasoning is somewhat myopic; intuition and feelings are a big part of what it means to be human. And on a more nuts-and-bolts level, I don't think laissez-faire would bring about utopia. The slum dwellers of Victorian London weren't exactly living in Shangri-La. OTOH, I enjoyed the novel and found parts of it thrilling and inspiring, though Rand does give away the "mystery" element of the story very early. I think it could make an entertaining movie trilogy, and the trailer looks better than I expected. I'll see it, for sure. Thanks for sharing your blog post.

119 Gushka: According to Phillip K Dick, his friend Heinlein could be boring and sometimes trite too.

Phillip K. Dick was one very complicated nut case ( and a great author ). I think God would have seemed trite to him.

I stand by my assessment that its all about what you like.

Of course. That's self evident, hopefully.

120 I know it's a bit tacky to link back to one's own blog, but here is my review of Atlas Shrugged. It explains why I think objectivism is such a terrible philosophy.
http://crankycon.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/a-brief-review-of-atlas-shrugged/

I've seen meatier posts on Facebook.

121 I have an autographed copy of Atlas Shrugged. When I was young I didn't see anything wrong with it. Experience has taught me to be able to see Rand's philosophical errors. She based her philosophy on Aristotle's fundamental postulate of reality. If Aristotle had been correct, Rand would have been correct.

Unfortunately Aristotle - as far as I am able to see - was wrong in pretty much everything he had to say. He screwed up human thinking for thousands of years, and continues to do so to this day. So persuasive is Aristotle even today that people mistake logic for proper accurate thinking. If this were a perfectly logical universe it would be impossible to think any way but logically... No, you disagree; what part of the phrase perfectly logical universe do you fail to understand - one illogical thought or action would mean that it could not be a perfectly logical universe.

The problem with logic as a way of thinking is that it is a rule based system - like a computer program. Rule based systems have boundary conditions under which they fail. In computer programs they are called "bugs".

One of the boundary conditions which causes logic to fail is contradictory premises. Any situation which is complex enough to have contradictory premises is outside of the area where you can apply logic.

Here is a trite example: A. "Sally is really good in bed" B. "Sally's husband will shoot you dead if you try to mate with her"  Logic fails as a thought process in this case because of that contradiction and you can't reach a logical conclusion about your actions toward Sally. You are forced to apply some other form of thought  to decide how to act.

Day to day life is complex enough to be filled with contradictory premises - most people make adjustment in and out of logical thinking so automatically that they aren't even aware that they are doing so.

Is logic correct? Yes, but only in cases which are simple enough that they don't encounter the boundary conditions where logic fails.

Any philosophy which can't handle contradiction is limited in its scope and applicability.

122 That movie looks heinous... Half the audience will see the trailer and say "what's a train and who would want to buy one?" Not only that, but as someone who hasn't read Atlas Shrugged I watched the whole trailer and have almost no idea what the movie is about except that the chick apparently has a company or something that has trains and the one guy likes money.

123 Hollywood got some government cheese for pimping the SOTU, really a shout out to all Democrat constituencies like the steel unions. "High speed rail" will grip the American imagination, dammit! If not, then more students will be brainwashed to grow up and faithfully pull the Dem lever in the polls after they watch this in English classes across he country.

124 "Hollywood got some government cheese for pimping the SOTU, really a shout out to all Democrat constituencies like the steel unions." Atlas was published in 1957, and it's all about trains, so I don't think the movie is some nefarious attempt to push Obama's SOTU agenda. This movie isn't "Hollywood" anyway; it's a low-budget indie flick produced by an exercise-equipment entrepreneur who is a die-hard Rand fan.

125 unfortunately, this flick appears to have that same low-budget feel as those rapture movies.

126

I can't wait to see Atlas Shrugged and Jsu Garcia's portrayal of Francisco d'Antonio. I love Ayn Rand - and while I don't subscribe to all her beliefs I do love the way her writing gives us the opportunity to examine parts of ourselves in their extreme possibilities. Her extreme ideals certainly shine the Light on the intentions we are holding for ourselves and our lives, and for me the invitation to increase my level of self responsibility, accountability and integrity in my life was one I accepted and took great advantage of.

I also am amazed by the success of his upcoming feature film The Wayshower, codirected / cowritten / coproduced with his spiritual teacher and the Bestselling Author Dr. John-Roger. Jsu Garcia also stars in his film, alongside screen heroes Eric Roberts and Peter Stormare, and screen veterans Sally Kirkland and Leigh Taylor-Young.

This indie film is obviously a labor of love for Jsu Garcia and it's inspiring to see movies of such substance being made. The Wayshower definitely shares some similarities with Atlas Shrugged, and perhaps like some of the best films coming out right now (like Inception and Black Swan) the examination of one's own life, and the quest to come more fully into a life of integrity, of fulfilling one's purpose are the films we need more of in times like these.

The Wayshower's trailer is quite amazing and an experience in and of itself. http://bit.ly/twyoutubetrailer Take the two minutes - you'll be glad you did.