September 13, 2011
— Ace First, Turkey threatened to send gunboats with the next Palestinian flotilla.
Turkey has developed a new radar system for its US-made F-16 fighter jets that will allow them to fire at Israeli targets, AnkaraÂ’s Star Gazete reported on Tuesday. The orders to modify the system reportedly came directly from Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoganÂ’s office.
Look, there is going to be a war. I'm not sure it's avoidable. I'm not sure if I even care to avoid it.
People are going to die, and I hope it's the right people.
Posted by: Ace at
10:03 PM
| Comments (138)
Post contains 115 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: USCitizen at September 13, 2011 10:10 PM (VoMvU)
You expect TheOne™ to actually do something like that? Especially after the Jooooooooooooooooos gave NY-09 to the 'Phants?
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:14 PM (sykbj)
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:17 PM (sykbj)
You expect TheOne™ to actually do something like that? Especially after the Jooooooooooooooooos gave NY-09 to the 'Phants?
No, but the defense industry engineers might have thought of it already, and designed systems to override such a manipulation of the IFF system.
Posted by: USCitizen at September 13, 2011 10:17 PM (VoMvU)
I don't agree that war between Turkey and Israel is inevitable; I think (hope) this has more to do with placating their local audience than any real ill intent.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 13, 2011 10:17 PM (Jl4kG)
Posted by: We'refkd.gov at September 13, 2011 10:18 PM (t7OQQ)
Posted by: SFGoth at September 13, 2011 10:19 PM (rFrxd)
Friend or Foe systems use a device that when it pings a target the target besides painting the screen with a blip will also send information about who they are and other data as agreed upon between countries Air Forces.
What Turkey has done is removed any "locks" their electronics might have against firing on a "Friend" and will paint and designate them a "Foe" and guns are free.
It's a big deal because it's not trivial to change these settings (for obvious reasons of safety and accountability).
So it takes a top level command order system wide.
That's what's happened.
It's not good news for Israel but I think they'll get over it.
Turkey (if they have anyone with two brain cells to rub together) should realize they will be in deep trouble if they down any Israeli planes or attack any Naval vessels.
Posted by: I know who I am but don't care at September 13, 2011 10:20 PM (iniPz)
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:20 PM (sykbj)
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 14, 2011 02:17 AM (sykbj)
OPEC has already stated they will drop production to keep oil prices high...
Why they are not treated under US law (which has worldwide Jurisdiction IF it affects the US) as a group which is blatantly PRICE FIXING, I can't figure out.
Free Trade? Yeah... right...
Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 10:20 PM (NtXW4)
Posted by: ace at September 13, 2011 10:21 PM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 13, 2011 10:22 PM (5Z/+/)
These folks are doing automated trades and if they all push the same button the price will spike even though THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT.
If a big enough speculator gets involved they can swing the price up or down and make a lot of money.
Meanwhile Joe Sixpack is getting hosed at the gas station.
Posted by: I know who I am but don't care at September 13, 2011 10:23 PM (iniPz)
If the IFF system change shows Turkey's assets as 'foes', then NATO and US forces gotta do what they gotta do.
I don't think this can possily end well for Turkey
Posted by: USCitizen at September 13, 2011 10:24 PM (VoMvU)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at September 13, 2011 10:24 PM (Sh+fu)
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 10:24 PM (TUax9)
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:24 PM (sykbj)
I have no idea if that's true and what they WANT to do may not mean beans if they get pushed into a corner and it's the firing squad or attack Israel.
I am hoping this is just show boating by Ergodan to increase his influence while other Muslim countries are distracted by internal strife.
We won't know until someone shoots someone.
Posted by: I know who I am but don't care at September 13, 2011 10:27 PM (iniPz)
Posted by: SFGoth at September 13, 2011 10:27 PM (rFrxd)
Wait, you say, that only applies if Israel attacks Turkey - right? Trust me - any shooting between Israel and Turkey will be Israel's fault. Just ask the Europeans.
If my understanding of NATO is correct, it doesn't matter one iota who provokes the war. If Israel is engaging in any military offensive towards Turkey, we are obligated to defend them.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 10:27 PM (TUax9)
ace:
Further, while Israel's military prowess is long-vaunted
And also, over-exaggerated.
They have some amazing elite units, but overall, Israel is a small internally-divided nation with a mostly unskilled military. They aren't the USA.
Posted by: sandy burger at September 13, 2011 10:27 PM (KPw+j)
Posted by: ace at September 14, 2011 02:21 AM (nj1bB)
Nope, Isreal didn't have nukes during the six day war. This may be turn Arab lands into a Chihuli exhibit.
Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 10:29 PM (MtwBb)
A warm beer cost a dollar, and a bottle of wine was also a dollar.
Turkey was dirty, backwards, and fucking carnal.
Same old shit, different day.
Yes the shit is going to hit the fan, and I could care less.
Posted by: Leatherneck at September 13, 2011 10:29 PM (faQpJ)
Posted by: sandy burger at September 14, 2011 02:27 AM (KPw+j)
How many times have they proved your statement wrong?
Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 10:30 PM (MtwBb)
And to put the shoe on the other foot, if Turkey attacks Israel, don't we have a treaty to defend them? Not that SCoaMF/TheOne™ would enforce said treaty, me thinks.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:31 PM (sykbj)
Kick em out of Nato. Pay the generals to launch a coup and hang Erdogan.
Or just nuke em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Posted by: BachmanAndDumber at September 13, 2011 10:33 PM (QcFbt)
Nature abhors a vacuum, but we are stuck with one in the Whitehouse for another year and a half...
Posted by: Yip in Texas at September 13, 2011 10:34 PM (Sh+fu)
The last time the Israeli Air Force fought a large-scale battle against a Muslim air force (the Syrians, over Lebanon in 1982) the result was something like an 80-0 kill ratio in air-to-air combat. The Turks are going to need a hell of a lot more than reprogrammed IFF boxes if they want to take on the Israelis.
Posted by: Major Kong at September 13, 2011 10:35 PM (B+qrE)
Hezbollah and Hamas start lobbing mortars and missiles. Iran's destroyers are in the Med to help with anti-air.
Israel has 3 subs with nuke missiles in striking distance of Iran and Turkey (NATO ally). The Iranians and Pakistan keep the US in check by threatening to cut off the supply lines to Afghanistan, or worse. The only country with a military to support the US is...Saudi Arabia and those fucks won't stay bought because they can see what's been happening in Egypt, Syria, Libya, Algeria.
It doesn't matter much if SCoaMF sits this one out or not. Israel is hosed and our hands are tied unless we want to take on Iran and Pakistan from Afghanistan which we can't hold for very long. Russia will not be helpful. China gets more aggressive in their sphere.
Am I missing anything here?
Posted by: CozMark at September 13, 2011 10:36 PM (HK4Kc)
Whenever we have a Democrat President, the barbarians see their weakness and decide that now is the time to make their move(s).
It's freaking happened for 150 years people!!!
Get a freaking clue!!!
If you walk down the street yelling that your unarmed and won't defend yourself and will look the other way if one of your friends with you is attacked, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN?
You'll be picking your teeth out of the gutter and wondering where your friends all went. (those that aren't wounded or dead)
Democrats despise the idea of winning and worship an idealized peace. They will only fight if forced to and then when they do they do it badly.
Read some history and quit electing Democrats. They always, always get us in some bloody contest somewhere and more people die than if we stood strong and everyone in the world knew it.
Posted by: I know who I am but don't care at September 13, 2011 10:36 PM (iniPz)
Posted by: Speller at September 13, 2011 10:38 PM (J74Py)
I wouldn't want to be a Turkish pilot in an F-16 going against an Israeli pilot in a P-40.
Posted by: JC at September 13, 2011 10:41 PM (ap2j5)
Antisemitism is on the rise again in Europe. I've seen it firsthand in France and Ireland within the past five years. The problem is that most American commentators live in an American-centric bubble and view an unprovoked attack on Israel as something to be universally reviled, left and right. The paradigm is different in Europe. The most radical anti-Israel protests I ever saw were on campus at UT-Austin a couple of years ago by the far left student orgs and professors. While their passion against Israel isn't shared by most Europeans, the sentiment certainly is.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 10:42 PM (TUax9)
Posted by: helpful Turkish IFF system at September 13, 2011 10:42 PM (RQ/Gi)
What's that saying, when you're about to be executed your mind's ability to focused is greatly increased.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:44 PM (sykbj)
My understanding based on an article I read a few days ago is that NATO members are not obligated to defend Turkey if Turkey commits an act of war without authorization from the alliance. The Israeli quarantine of Gaza is perfectly legal (despite the howling from certain quarters). So if Turkish forces try to break it, then they're acting illegally and NATO is off the hook.
Posted by: Mætenloch at September 13, 2011 10:44 PM (5fmrw)
I wouldn't want to be a Turkish anybody if it came to that.
Israel wouldn't launch nukes in a small scale skirmish, but if they thought their existence was truly being threatened... it could end badly.
Near term, this is most likely just saber rattling by the Turks for domestic consumption. They're not stupid and/or suicidal.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 13, 2011 10:44 PM (Jl4kG)
Posted by: sandy burger at September 14, 2011 02:39 AM (KPw+j)
So do I there is no sure winner in a war but they have a good record and the soviets aren't backing their enemies this time.
Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 10:45 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: JC at September 13, 2011 10:47 PM (ap2j5)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at September 13, 2011 10:47 PM (jeLTI)
It didn't work that way when Argentina invaded the Falklands. Britain was on their own.
Posted by: Speller at September 13, 2011 10:47 PM (J74Py)
Posted by: Elize Nayden at September 13, 2011 10:49 PM (v49dF)
I agree 100%. But, if somebody else does attack Israel, Turkey will lend a lot of support to the effort.
Posted by: sandy burger at September 13, 2011 10:49 PM (KPw+j)
No, not from Turkey anyway. The Sinai shit from the late 70's obligates us to defend attacks on Israel from Egypt. We also have a roughshod ballistic missile treaty with Israel. I don't know of any other formal arrangements we have.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 10:50 PM (TUax9)
Posted by: Elize Nayden at September 14, 2011 02:49 AM (v49dF)
We should kick ourselves out of NATO and let Europe defend themselves for a few decades.
Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 10:51 PM (MtwBb)
And fuck the Turks. They're asking for it. They want a second Ottoman Empire? They need to be schooled on what happened to the first one.
One thing's for sure. This is the end of NATO. I can't imagine any of the NATO allies rushing to defend Turkey in a war they deliberately provoked.
Maybe in 10 years, Hagia Sophia will be a Synagogue.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 10:51 PM (QxGmu)
Speaking of which, France should have been kicked out a long ago. (Their Cold War foreign policy was explicitly "multi-polar".)
But the real regrettable truth is, we should just remove ourselves from NATO. It's dead, unfortunately. Our treaty obligations ought to reflect that sad reality.
Posted by: sandy burger at September 13, 2011 10:52 PM (KPw+j)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 10:52 PM (AZGON)
No way in hell Turkey wants a war with Israel. Turkey would become another Islamic jackass stopped in days. This is pure soviet style pissing.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 13, 2011 10:53 PM (s1vtf)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 10:53 PM (AZGON)
James Baker III? That fucking Arabist? Of course this White House would pick him.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 10:53 PM (QxGmu)
The Falklands are a British protectorate, so that might be a nuanced difference from an attack on an actual NATO member. Also, most of NATO aligned with the UK diplomatically, including Turkey.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 10:54 PM (TUax9)
Recall that most of their Senior military has either resigned or being prosecuted. The reasonable secular buffer has been eliminated.
Posted by: John P. Squibob at September 13, 2011 10:54 PM (sykbj)
Posted by: Rusty Nail
I look forward to drinking Manischewitz a really bold California cab there at Passover.
Posted by: SFGoth at September 13, 2011 10:55 PM (rFrxd)
Speller at 49 - The NATO agreement is written to secifically exclude attacks outside the immediate Noth Atlantic area. I don't remember the specific latitude boundary but it was written such to exclude attacks on "colonial" territories.
Posted by: Have Blue at September 13, 2011 10:56 PM (IKTC8)
Please. Israeli advisors helped the Turks build up their military. Ergo, the Israelis know the strengths and weaknesses of every Turkish weapons system, every Turkish strategy, and every Turkish tactic.
Israel lives by one credo: There are no allies of Israel, only enemies and neutrals. The Israelis have prepared for this. Plus, the Turks haven't fought a major conflict since the Korean War, and they did utterly miserably in that. They did equally badly in the invasion of Cyprus in 1974.
It's time for Israel to once again clean several Muslim clocks simultaneously.
Posted by: Llarry at September 13, 2011 10:56 PM (jbgd3)
Posted by: Rusty Nail
Israel prolly wouldn't even let him in. Fuck Baker. Fuck GHW Bush.
Posted by: SFGoth at September 13, 2011 10:57 PM (rFrxd)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 10:57 PM (AZGON)
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 14, 2011 02:42 AM (TUax9)
Your post is at least 10 years out of date. Ataturk's vision for Turkey is long dead. The Islamists are in complete control.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 10:57 PM (QxGmu)
That's the most common sense thing I've read in a very long time
Posted by: JC at September 13, 2011 10:57 PM (ap2j5)
Posted by: Walter Freeman at September 13, 2011 10:58 PM (UsjBj)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at September 13, 2011 10:59 PM (jeLTI)
Posted by: Speller at September 13, 2011 11:00 PM (J74Py)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 11:00 PM (AZGON)
I guess they looked West towards Europe, then looked East towards radical Islam, and they decided to choose the strong horse.
Posted by: sandy burger at September 13, 2011 11:00 PM (KPw+j)
Speller at 49 - The NATO agreement is written to secifically exclude attacks outside the immediate Noth Atlantic area. I don't remember the specific latitude boundary but it was written such to exclude attacks on "colonial" territories.
I did not know that Libya was on the North Atlantic Ocean. The things one learns here.
Posted by: Speller at September 13, 2011 11:02 PM (J74Py)
This may be genuine sabre-rattling, but that's all it is. Wonder what Claire Berlinski will have to say about this. This may be entirely for internal Turkish consumption. That, or the Turks running the gubmint are freaking batshit insane.
But they just had their election didnt they? So it can hardly be for electoral purposes and the turkish economy is going quite well...
Posted by: Elize Nayden at September 13, 2011 11:02 PM (v49dF)
It's a great idea, if what Turkey wants is to give its NATO fellows the excuse they've been waiting for to turn openly against the country Turkey's rattling at.
Look at a list of NATO member nations. How many of them won't join in the next (attempted) Holocaust? Five? I'd say five. Could be more, but not much more.
If Turkey is long-term smart (which I don't think they are, but...), they're manufacturing domestic boob-bait that, as a bonus, if it just happens to play the right way internationally (which it seems to me to be, but I pretty much only hear from UK lefties, who are all pretty much Nazis, so I don't really know), could be a strong move in the Caliphate-in-exile's game of isolating the US from "the world"—which is unified in Jew-hate, if in nothing else.
Or they're just crazy, and doing stupid shit. Which may have the same effect, if that's the effect "the world" wants it to have.
Good times.
Posted by: oblig. at September 13, 2011 11:04 PM (xvZW9)
I know it's en vogue among conservatives to act as though Turkey's elected government is on par with the mullahs. They're not. Yet. It's coming to the point where I think salvaging a diplomatic relationship with Turkey is beyond hope, but they haven't started criminalizing the Christian faith. Erdogan wants to be Abbas, don't get me wrong. The problem is that they have deep economic ties with most of Europe, and the money prevents the thugs from taking the mask off. And don't try to lecture me on Kemalism. I know Turkey's rejected neo-liberalism, but they haven't gone full sharia yet.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 11:04 PM (TUax9)
For the purposes of NATO and basic geography, the Mediterranean is part of the Atlantic Ocean.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 11:07 PM (TUax9)
Maybe in 10 years, Hagia Sophia will be a Synagogue.
Posted by: Rusty Nail
Well, it's been a church and a mosque, might as well make the rounds.
Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 11:08 PM (TOyZo)
-ace
Let's hope so. There can never be too many Naksa's on the Muslim calendar.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 11:09 PM (QxGmu)
Posted by: Mr Fever Head at September 13, 2011 11:10 PM (ZgvjV)
Posted by: elizabeth at September 13, 2011 11:16 PM (54sKT)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 13, 2011 11:17 PM (5Z/+/)
I'm not saying it shouldn't be. My remark was tongue-in-cheek and along the lines of arhooley's thinking.
Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 11:18 PM (QxGmu)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at September 13, 2011 11:21 PM (5Z/+/)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 11:26 PM (AZGON)
JC at 39 - I think I would rather be flying a P-40 in a fight against the Israelis. They don't call the F-16 the "Electric Jet" for nothing. Every system, from throttles to flight controls is controlled by computer. Computers which are (in theory) vulnerable to hacks and viri. They say the Syrians had no clue at all the Israelis were coming for their North Korean reactor because their air defense system was thoroughly penetrated by Israeli computer shenanigans. I would hate to be a Turkixh pilot flying in those conditions. (Hopefully at least the ejection seats are hard wired.)
Posted by: Have Blue at September 13, 2011 11:30 PM (IKTC8)
If not, well, we face the prospect of pulling out of NATO to defend Israel, which is going to make everything really weird. Of course, it'll get even weirder when we try to cut off aid to Egypt without also cutting off aid to Israel, since that's the current agreement. And if we pull out of NATO, what if other countries in the EU go explicitly hostile? Are you really willing to lose all of NATO for Israel?
Meh, this will all be under the table cash payout shenanigan BS. The Turks will parlay this crap into higher rent for our bases in Turkey, same as the Kyrgyz did.
Posted by: flashoverride at September 13, 2011 11:35 PM (8JPcC)
75 - The Mediteranean is considered part of the "North Atlantic" area for the purpose of NATO. The cut off is further south. IIRC it is north of the equator.
For the purposes of the NATO treaty unprovoked (by a direct attack against a NATO member) action by a NATO member against another power do not require a response by the NATO alliance. The Libyan action did not qualify as a situation requiring NATO members to back aggression against a third party who had not attacked a NATO country.
Posted by: Have Blue at September 13, 2011 11:36 PM (IKTC8)
None. Well, maybe Luxembourg or Belgium.
Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 13, 2011 11:38 PM (TUax9)
NATO should have been dissolved in 92. The USSR was dead. We should have funded the satellite states to provide any bulwark needed and moved on to other matters.
No way in hell Erdogan is going to openly go to war with Israel. Turkey would be beaten like a drum. Erdogan is looking for cheap PR and nothing else.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 13, 2011 11:56 PM (s1vtf)
#90 Are you really willing to lose all of NATO for Israel?
You're kidding right? After that miserable performance in Libya, who'd miss it? Anymore NATO consists of the US military forces and some European interns.
Posted by: theCork at September 14, 2011 12:01 AM (iSyWd)
Posted by: Mr Fever Head at September 14, 2011 12:05 AM (ZgvjV)
Starting with an essay by .... Frank Microphallus Rich.
If there is a war against the beleagured Jews in the Middle East, the cocktail-circuit Jews in Manhattan will be rooting for the barbarian Turks. Mark me.
And may God help us all, and crush the minions of allah under his heel.
Posted by: Beverly at September 14, 2011 12:33 AM (9wb8t)
This also illustrates that old axiom that nations do not have "friends", they have mutual interests. There are a couple of things in play here, first Turkey has been moving more and more out of the secular government range into the Sharia/Islamic radical range. Secondly they most likely feel they no longer need a "marriage of convenience" to offset the Soviets, in fact there may be some behind the scenes meddling here by Putin. Thirdly we have a President who is either hopelessly incompetent in foreign policy or who is actively on the side of the Islamics. He has demonstrated that he will NOT act in the interests of the U.S. or any of our old allies and he will try to cozy up to our enemies. This has only emboldened the Islamics.
With Egypt making noises, Turkey now making noises, and Iran never stopping with the noise we are building up for a major war here. This at a time when the U.S. is vastly overextended and Obama is actually cutting the military.
I agree with Ace, there will be a war and I blame Obama. What is worse is he is also holding up weapons deliveries to Israel and will probably not agree to help them out at all.
No, this is not good.
Posted by: Vic at September 14, 2011 12:40 AM (M9Ie6)
There are several problems with up and leaving NATO:
1. Basing. we leave NATO, we lose our basing rights in Europe. No more German bases, no more UK Bases, no more Greenland/Iceland bases. Sigonella. We would lose our ability to project power into the Med and the North Atlantic. Not real easy to support Israel if we can't project power into the Med.
2. Corrollary of losing basing: No more Landshtul. We lose the only level 1 medical facility we have outside the US. How many Very Seriously Injured/Critical US troops would die on the flight from Balad/Kandahar to DC? (Oh by the way, with NATO goes our overflight permissions, so we'd be taking the looooongggg route there too.)
3. NATO also provides logistical and intel support in Afghanistan.
Simply, we shouldn't "pull out" of NATO. We should instead agree to reducing NATO to its original pact nations.
Posted by: Chuck Z at September 14, 2011 01:17 AM (OITDh)
Posted by: Mr Fever Head at September 14, 2011 01:21 AM (ZgvjV)
Posted by: Boxy Brown at September 14, 2011 01:22 AM (exCPD)
Or we just turn off GPS coverage/spoof turkish gps systems. we have the tech already in place for that.
Or, we joint-base US F16's in Israel for onging "exercises."
Posted by: Chuck Z at September 14, 2011 01:24 AM (OITDh)
Posted by: Vic at September 14, 2011 01:33 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Goatweed at September 14, 2011 02:14 AM (1ZjA0)
Posted by: Adm. Josh Painter at September 14, 2011 02:24 AM (ykXW9)
Posted by: Jean at September 14, 2011 02:25 AM (ilc7b)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 14, 2011 02:26 AM (UlUS4)
Posted by: nati at September 14, 2011 02:34 AM (sJaP+)
Posted by: nati at September 14, 2011 02:35 AM (sJaP+)
Posted by: Jean at September 14, 2011 02:35 AM (OTtAK)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at September 14, 2011 02:36 AM (UlUS4)
Posted by: Joffen at September 14, 2011 02:46 AM (EPcuy)
Posted by: Knaws at September 14, 2011 02:54 AM (q3Bhy)
I love the way Misses Campbell says "Someones gonna die"
Posted by: sTevo at September 14, 2011 03:03 AM (VMcEw)
As I said once before, I wish I had visited Israel when it still existed as Israel.
Posted by: Hrothgar at September 14, 2011 03:08 AM (i3+c5)
Posted by: Jean at September 14, 2011 03:11 AM (tvOF2)
Posted by: Onlooker at September 14, 2011 03:30 AM (NWfYP)
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at September 14, 2011 04:03 AM (i0App)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 14, 2011 04:03 AM (l9zgN)
Posted by: izoneguy at September 14, 2011 04:23 AM (i6Neb)
Posted by: izoneguy at September 14, 2011 04:25 AM (i6Neb)
This really helps Russia and France, who can sell Turkey replacement fighters after Israel aerially disassembles the US built ones.
Posted by: Roy at September 14, 2011 05:27 AM (VndSC)
As far as the Turks go I would say that we either cut their parts supply off for their jets or that the next "upgrade" to their systems contain a kill switch. They have proven themselves too immature to play with the big boy toys.
And we owe them one because they didn't allow us to stage from their territory when we fought Iraq. It is hard to see how they have ever been an asset in any fashion so it is past time to treat them as a liability.
Posted by: Voluble at September 14, 2011 05:43 AM (JKX4x)
"Maybe in 10 years, Hagia Sophia will be a Synagogue."
Better yet, maybe in ten years, Istanbul could be Constantinople again, if the US plays her cards right.
Posted by: Sharkman at September 14, 2011 06:19 AM (wMsKw)
Posted by: rockhead at September 14, 2011 06:43 AM (ZMHGo)
Posted by: Harlequin at September 14, 2011 06:44 AM (7SuSt)
Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 14, 2011 06:46 AM (iYbLN)
And yet I also read, Europe sells modern anti missile system for Turkey hooked into NATO command.
The next arab Israeli war will involve the Euros who will try very hard to do what NATO did to libya to Israel and finish the NAZI's job of slaughtering Jews all with the blessings and legality of the NATO charter and American's may find themselves bombing Tel Aviv for the damned french.
Euros want a destroyed Israel so the Euros can kiss arab ass.
Posted by: HEP-T at September 14, 2011 07:23 AM (6+6Od)
Posted by: Goatweed at September 14, 2011 08:44 AM (1ZjA0)
Like Japan, Israel has their own version of the F-16, a fully combat capable two-seater for SEAD/Wild Weasel missions, replacing their F-4(G?) Phantoms.
Oh, and if the IAF was anywhere near our size, they could probably kick our asses. I wouldn't want to fight those guys, even if I had the clearest escape window and the safest egress vector imaginable.
Posted by: KirkCameronLeftMeBehind at September 14, 2011 09:01 AM (iZ6fL)
Posted by: White RB at September 14, 2011 11:44 AM (LrLv1)
Posted by: steevy at September 14, 2011 01:09 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Rae4palin at September 14, 2011 01:15 PM (NA4k7)
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Posted by: USCitizen at September 13, 2011 10:08 PM (VoMvU)