July 28, 2011
— Open Blogger The great thing about the debt ceiling is that everybody's got an opinion. My thanks to the head Ewok for granting me the floor to express mine.
The current Boehner deal is less than meaningless. It's an insult to you. Boehner is grabbing your daughter, spitting in her mouth, and then burning your house down. All the while talking about how he's all about doing the right thing.
Let me reiterate, as I have been for the last day or so on each of these threads:
The CBO does some stupid things. Like assuming an approximate 7% increase in federal spending year over year as normal, even without any new programs or departments. Like making 10-year budgets, when only one year really matters, because it's impossible for one Congress to bind another.
Let me give you some small idea of how screwed up Washington math is, and how much it favors those who are in power over those of us who foot the bill with our blood and treasure:
If we JUST CAPPED SPENDING-- spent the same amount next FY as we did this FY,
the CBO would score that as a $9.5 trillion dollar cut.
So before anyone can claim we're "cutting" anything, the number they are talking about has to exceed $9.5 trillion.
The Boehner plan, with all its actuarial tomfoolery, claims to cut something in the neighborhood of $850 billion.
And only $20 billion of that is this year.
So John Boehner is saying to you that spending $20 billion less than Obama's opening offer is worth giving him a blank check for a trillion and more.
As long as we're going to go on playing for the "long game" it's meaningless to even try to put together a plan. Just let the Democrats do what they want to, since the difference between what they're going to do and Republicans' counteroffer is less than a rounding error.
My point is, either we fight for this, or we die like dogs. What the House is doing is not fighting.
The elite Washington Republican insiders have a very tough tightrope to walk: They have to make you believe that they're fighting for your interests, while making damn sure that they're not fighting for your interests. Because your interests are directly opposed to their interests. Money is power. The power to tax is the power to rule. Not represent, but rule.
And now we're seeing just how representative our government is. The conservative movement achieved a nationwide landslide for the GOP. And what did we get for it? $352M in allocated spending de-allocated during the asinine CR (and don't get me started on those filthy bipartisan statist backslappers passing a continuing resolution rather than stating their priorities in a budget document), and $20 billion unspent in exchange for an extra trillion borrowed. Unless, you know, Harry Reid says we get less and we like it.
Pretty awesome work for eight months in office, TEA movement Representatives! You just saved us... about 54 hours of government borrowing. Not spending, just the borrowing we do in 54 hours.
How much time and money did you spend getting these schmucks elected? Hours? Thousands? However much it was, that's time and money you could have spent with your family that you will never get back. And our kids and grandkids are not only still slaves, but the Congress is forging new links on their chains as we speak.
Mr. Speaker, the only rational position for a reasonable man acting prudently to take is to honor those who made his rule possible and not raise the debt ceiling. It is politically rational because the House has already given the Senate and the President a choice: Do it like Americans want you to do it, or leave the debt limit where it is. Not only is it politically rational, it is the only choice that obeys the laws of economics: There. Is. No. More. Money. Somebody already spent it.
Drop the act, Boehner. Send the House home.
Posted by: Open Blogger at
03:38 PM
| Comments (628)
Post contains 683 words, total size 4 kb.
Posted by: sexypig at July 28, 2011 03:42 PM (UmEOs)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 03:43 PM (o2lIv)
Boehner is grabbing your daughter, spitting in her mouth, and then burning your house down.
Bwahahaha...and yuck!
Posted by: Panther at July 28, 2011 03:45 PM (GxleY)
Who do you think voters are going to blame? Do you realize the importance of not allowing Obama the whip hand here? Do you even care?
Nah. Elections can just be won in your minds.
Posted by: Jeff B. at July 28, 2011 03:46 PM (hIWe1)
The question is, do we want the Dems claiming victory over a fractured and demoralized GOP? Or do we want the GOP to claim a win, Obama is irrelevant, Reid gets forced to pass something closer to the House GOP solution than he wants?
I'd rather the option that demoralizes the other guy, thanks. How pissed will the far lefties BE when the answer is more Boehner's solution than Reid's? How irrelevant will their messiah have been?
When the end result will be similar, let's choose the option that we can best spin as victory (amongst ourselves, we know the press will call it a Dem victory no matter what).
Posted by: Less at July 28, 2011 03:48 PM (PGXeZ)
Cut, Cap, and Balance is scored from the baseline. Same with the Ryan budget and the RSC budget. Would Cato say those are frauds or not?
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 03:48 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: DTIH at July 28, 2011 03:48 PM (qVCeo)
Posted by: The Donkey Show (Will never use HTML under penalty of DOOM) at July 28, 2011 03:49 PM (ijjAe)
But, by all means, let's just kill Boehner, scream "purity" and write screeds. That's way more productive.
Posted by: Nora at July 28, 2011 03:49 PM (VxqUc)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 03:49 PM (DsHk0)
Posted by: Panther at July 28, 2011 03:49 PM (GxleY)
So then I'm putting you down for a no Truman?
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 03:49 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at July 28, 2011 03:50 PM (E7Z1r)
Like making 10-year budgets, when only one year really matters, because it's impossible for one Congress to bind another.
------------------------
This is the thing I keep coming back to. This whole thing is pretend. We're all waiting for 2013. All we're talking about is surviving until then, when we tear down everything Obama and the Dem Senate has done and start from scratch.
For that reason, I don't see why we don't pretend to go along with some ten-year non-savings nonsense that will keep us solvent for the next 543 days.
Posted by: arhooley at July 28, 2011 03:50 PM (3J6Cw)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 03:50 PM (DsHk0)
Posted by: cranky-d at July 28, 2011 03:51 PM (sNyNR)
8 Say folks, what do you all think will happen if we default?
THERE IS NO RISK OF DEFAULT!! Our absolute obligations-- Medicare, SS, vets beneifts, troop pay, ongoing defense, debt service, and freaking throw in food stamps and any number of numerically insignifigant programs...
we still have enough revenue every month to pay it all off, plus $40-60B more
Every month.
Go ahead and threaten default, but understand you are repeating a MFM/DKos/WH talking point with no basis in rality.
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 03:51 PM (K2wpv)
Posted by: Insomniac at July 28, 2011 03:51 PM (RWDCi)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 03:51 PM (o2lIv)
If you like your shantytown, you can keep your shantytown.
Posted by: Barack Obama at July 28, 2011 03:51 PM (zgZzy)
Jeebus. The mean and stupid.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 03:52 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: JeffC at July 28, 2011 03:52 PM (M2Ccl)
For that reason, I don't see why we don't pretend to go along with some ten-year non-savings nonsense that will keep us solvent for the next 543 days.
One of the things for which we should be fighting is budgetary process reforms. Biannual budgeting with caps (and the right BBA on the side) would be excellent.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 03:53 PM (o2lIv)
Guys, look at the bright side. Most of us here love "The Road Warrior." It's a nearly-perfect film, and soon, we'll all be living it!
I say sit back and wait for your government-issued assless chaps*.
*And yes, I know "assless chaps" is redundant.
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 28, 2011 03:53 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: lions at July 28, 2011 03:53 PM (Mp19R)
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 03:54 PM (OhYCU)
Posted by: My ass is sore from the IRS fucking me dry at July 28, 2011 03:54 PM (STTZD)
Cut, Cap, and Balance is scored from the baseline. Same with the Ryan budget and the RSC budget. Would Cato say those are frauds or not?
Yes, actually. They're all different degrees of fraudulent. Ryan and CCB less so than others and therefore better for the country... but they're all presented with raudulent numbers. The good plans are better than the bad plans in the exact same way as a little bit of arsenic in your lover's tea is better than having her raped to death by a pack of wilding jackhammers.
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 03:54 PM (K2wpv)
That crappy taste? That's Boehner cumming in your mouth.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo(NJConservative) at July 28, 2011 03:55 PM (LH6ir)
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 07:54 PM (OhYCU)
That bitch came after me after my mentioning how I miss my late parents. She's an idiot. I had another death in the family a few days ago. In no mood for her idiocy.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (DsHk0)
Posted by: Eric "the Psycho" Cantor at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (VidfH)
Posted by: slide of western civilization at July 28, 2011 07:51 PM (VidfH
hahahahaha!!!1 oh is that not right to laugh at the end of the world as we know it? oh shit!!!! hahahahahaha
Posted by: Krazy Kat at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (A23u6)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: rdbrewer at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (OTWhg)
I think everything that can be said about this has been said, and now I'm just going to wait for the vote.
Posted by: pep at July 28, 2011 03:57 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: kansas at July 28, 2011 03:57 PM (A+g5T)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 28, 2011 03:57 PM (UlUS4)
50 We can't win the fight for America without first winning the political fight.
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 03:58 PM (K2wpv)
Posted by: Old Yeller at July 28, 2011 03:58 PM (wN82N)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 28, 2011 03:59 PM (UlUS4)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 03:59 PM (TMB3S)
As long as we're going to go on playing for the "long game" it's meaningless to even try to put together a plan. Just let the Democrats do what they want to, since the difference between what they're going to do and Republicans' counteroffer is less than a rounding error.
Very well said. The other reason to give the Dems everything they want is to completely stick them with the economic fallout in 2012. If the Republican deal goes through, any further downturns of this economic miracle economy will be blamed on the Republicans.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 28, 2011 03:59 PM (GKQDR)
And SO many of us regular folks are talking about debt ceilings, and out years and baselines and understanding CBO scoring. It really is a beautiful thing - the amount of information that we now have, and the power that we are able to wield simply via communications with our elected officials, it's really quite remarkable.
I think whatever the outcome is, we know that Dems will claim victory, the media will call us Teabaggers, Mark Levin will scream some more, etc. But if the final law starts with the House GOP bill, and gets modified from there, and skippy is forced to sign it, we, the GOP, will eventually realize it's a small victory for us.
If Boehner's bill loses, Reid's will pass the Senate, and the House will have to adopt a bill based on that, and skippy will happily sign it, and it will be a pure DEM victory, they will have "taught us our lesson", outplayed us, and we lose, lose, lose. And we'll fight amongst ourselves trying to assign blame. It will be ugly.
Posted by: Less at July 28, 2011 03:59 PM (PGXeZ)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 04:00 PM (DsHk0)
Posted by: Breaker19 at July 28, 2011 04:00 PM (IxPNC)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 04:00 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Free2Smooze at July 28, 2011 04:01 PM (2cI+I)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 28, 2011 04:01 PM (bxiXv)
Obama wants this. It will save his Presidency.
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 04:01 PM (OhYCU)
Let me be clear. This current fight has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUDGET OR DEFICITS. That battle cannot be won here with control of the House alone. Anyone who says it can is naive. What we can do is to position ourselves to sweep everything in 2012 (where yes, we need moderates) and after that, then we go for the big win.
NOT NOW YOU DUMBASSES.
A HARD RIGHT position here may make you feel good, but you lose the war in 2012 by losing the middle.
Play long ball. Boil the frog.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 28, 2011 04:02 PM (uVlA4)
This^^^^A thousand times this^^^^. I've been saying that over and over, money is power, every cent the government takes from you is power that's being transferred from you to government. And whenever a plan has all it's real effect in the out years you know it's bullshit and the pols who wrote it know it's bullshit.
Posted by: booger at July 28, 2011 04:02 PM (9RFH1)
Posted by: sexypig at July 28, 2011 04:02 PM (UmEOs)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 28, 2011 08:01 PM (eOXTH)
She's like a bad rash.....a bad, retarded rash.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (UOM48)
At this point, I'm trying to figure what he could do to not be called every name in the book by his own side of the aisle.
Oh, and would I be the first tonight to say "Eff you, Shep Smith?"
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Hold this for me at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (STTZD)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (DsHk0)
And Obama owns the economy. We win all 3 branches in 2012 and fix everything.
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (OhYCU)
Posted by: curious's dead soccer coach at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (5H6zj)
Meanwhile The Fed buys our excess unwanted debt with electronic monopoly money.
These lying assholes have SHAME debt that Bernie Madoff could only dream about.
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 04:03 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: sexypig at July 28, 2011 04:04 PM (UmEOs)
Oh, sure. Things go south and everyone hates the amphibian. Well, except the chicken.
Posted by: The frog at July 28, 2011 04:04 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Andy at July 28, 2011 04:05 PM (veZ9n)
Posted by: USS Diversity at July 28, 2011 04:05 PM (KbEJl)
Posted by: sexypig at July 28, 2011 04:05 PM (UmEOs)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at July 28, 2011 04:06 PM (A23u6)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 28, 2011 07:53 PM (zgZzy)
I can't wait. I can already feel the malevolence coursing through my huge pectorals and pulsing visibly under my bald, sutured scalp. Let the raping and pillaging begin!
Posted by: Lord Humungus, Ayatollah of Rock-andRollah at July 28, 2011 04:07 PM (IoUF1)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 28, 2011 08:01 PM (eOXTH)
You make me giggle. There are times when, OMG, is the only thing you can bear to type.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 04:07 PM (piMMO)
Cutting from the baseline is not fraudulent so much as it isn't addressing the root cause. (You'd have to be cutting far above $10T if you wanted to do that.) Here's more from Daniel Foster and Marc Thiessen about baselines and cuts, as well as CBO assumptions.
Also, I believe the budgetary process reforms in Boehner's bill are worth having. Actual and meaningful caps on spending that are locked for 10yrs is something worth having because it would slow spending. Congress cannot spend above the cap.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:08 PM (o2lIv)
Riddle me this. Why are the donks raging on the floor of the House right now because the 2nd part of the Boehner plan, the part nobody here talks about, requires that in the next 6 months Congress must come up with 3 trillion in cuts which means entitlement reform in order to get the 2nd part of the debt ceiling raise?
Oh yeah, because it means there are an additional $3 trillion in cuts on the table to entitlements before the debt ceiling can get raised in 6 months.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 07:59 PM (TMB3S)
My understanding of this part of the bill is that when the final cuts are due, and they haven't solidified, and they decide to raise the debt ceiling anyway, they can invoke the "fuck you, that's why" clause like they always do.
Cuts now, or they don't exist.
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 04:08 PM (K2wpv)
I am starting the ' I aint giving you one more fucking penny party' Who's with me?
About that.....
Posted by: The I "well take your fucking DOLLARS at gunpoint" RS at July 28, 2011 04:08 PM (ffV1/)
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 28, 2011 04:08 PM (GKQDR)
Bill,
Either we stop this shit now, or 2012 will be lost no matter what, no matter who is "in charge." You fail to understand that a lot of folks don't give a shit about the republican party anymore. Either it stops the spending or it's consigned to teh ash heap of history. If we default, the pain comes now. If we kick the can, the pain gets that much worse.
The "long game" only works if the game has more than 15:00 left on the clock. We do not.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (UaxA0)
All things being equal, we should be able to get more - but all things are not equal.
We don't control the Senate, we don't have the Presidency.
The media thinks that the GOP lead the country into two needless wars, and was responsible for the financial meltdown. They will frame any resulting problems that arise from failure to raise the debt ceiling on the GOP. They will excuse any laziness on the part of the Democrats by saying that the GOP never passed a bill that could work in the Senate. It's all unfair, and untrue. It's also irrelevant.
One other thing, a lot has been made about whether the markets will sell off. I'm a free market conservative. I support an individuals or an institutions right to sell for any circumstances. It has been concerning to see so many self described conservatives get circumspect at the idea that markets might sell off and make them look bad.
At the end of the day the debt limit will be raised - there is no way that there will not be a coalition of 218 Democrats and Republicans in the House that want to have Grandma scared about missing a check. And that deal will be a lot worse than the Boehner bill.
Posted by: cdm at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (9pN3M)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (vbEjv)
I can't wait. I can already feel the malevolence coursing through my huge pectorals and pulsing visibly under my bald, sutured scalp. Let the raping and pillaging begin!
You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
Posted by: Mad Max Baucus at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (zgZzy)
Also, I believe the budgetary process reforms in Boehner's bill are worth having. Actual and meaningful caps on spending that are locked for 10yrs is something worth having because it would slow spending. Congress cannot spend above the cap.
Yeah, that's an awesome law. They should have tried that before.
Posted by: Graham-Rudman at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (K2wpv)
What she said to me on the last thread won't be forgotten.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (IMglX)
Posted by: curiously stupid at July 28, 2011 04:10 PM (oVQFe)
*raises hand*
Posted by: booger at July 28, 2011 04:10 PM (9RFH1)
Posted by: SurferDoc at July 28, 2011 04:10 PM (STdkO)
What she said to me on the last thread won't be forgotten.
Good . . . good . . . let it flow . . .
Posted by: Emperor Palpatine at July 28, 2011 04:11 PM (zgZzy)
The thing is, the Tea Party members of the GOP are doing exactly what you recommend.
How well is it working in getting what we want?
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 04:11 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 28, 2011 04:11 PM (eOXTH)
So everyone who has supported this plan is stupid or evil, is that the idea?
Color me skeptical.
See Pigs, Bay of.
Groupthink at its finest.
It's simply obvious to more and more people that the entire system is rigged agaisnt the small business and average taxpayer. So we have 2 choices: try to make it work or let it burn.
Those who are employed by the system are not exactly in a position to choose dispassionately between the two of them.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:12 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 28, 2011 04:12 PM (zgZzy)
What she said to me on the last thread won't be forgotten.
Wait, what?
I was just going to make a joke about Miss Jane cursing like I do a sailor and then I read the last sentence. WTH happened? Which thread?
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 04:12 PM (piMMO)
Curious, Boehner's idea of whipping the conference is buying them pizza, attempting to charm them, and offering to change the bill to suit their requests. As for Majority Whip McCarthy, the man has given his members permission to vote no on a number of bills. So this isn't Tom DeLay threatening to punish anyone and everyone who crosses them. If anything, Boehner and McCarthy are absolute failures when it comes to whipping the conference the traditional way.
/Which is a good thing in some ways.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:12 PM (o2lIv)
I'm not entirely sold on a BBA. Tim Gordon (?) wrote a piece in the American Thinker the other day arguing that the BBA would dangerously expand the power of the judiciary over taxation matters, among other things.
Still, we badly need tax and budgetary reforms - I'm just not entirely sold on a BBA yet.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 28, 2011 04:13 PM (c0A3e)
226 216 The slams at the elderly on this thread have become disgusting.
Enjoy yourselves.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 07:33 PM (UOM4
you, the me generation put us here and now you demand your checks, you should be paying all of us back for putting up with you.
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 07:35 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:14 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 28, 2011 04:14 PM (UlUS4)
Posted by: Bobby Ahr at July 28, 2011 04:14 PM (bHNQF)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:14 PM (o2lIv)
The thing is, the Tea Party members of the GOP are doing exactly what you recommend.
Some are, and some are not. But at a certain point, you have to draw the line and say, "this far, and no farther."
Not passing a bill is a choice-- a choice to not sell our children further into debt slavery. Which is not "nothing".
Posted by: Graham-Rudman at July 28, 2011 04:14 PM (K2wpv)
Why do you think Obama does not own the economy now. He certainly does. This is the issue that will cost him the next election.
It will not get better in time to save him, no matter what happens.
Even though the MSM will spin whatever results of this "Debt Crisis" in favor of Obama. He will be characterized as the great Leader Who Solved the Crisis with his bi-partisan healing of the deep divisions, and this result will be the very best thing that could have ever been conceived for the best benefit of the country. Then the MSM will idolize him.
The problem is the public is no longer buying this BS. The polls have him cliff diving and there is no confidence in this administration. And there is no spin left that can overcome those facts.
Posted by: Mister Money at July 28, 2011 04:15 PM (wN82N)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 08:12 PM (o2lIv)
80sBaby trying to be a saint and explain things to a lying passive aggressive troll that needs to listen to the radio to try and sound like she's conservative. You're fighting a losing battle with the stupid you know 80s.
Posted by: buzzion at July 28, 2011 04:15 PM (oVQFe)
Bravo, Truman North.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 28, 2011 04:15 PM (r4t7/)
Posted by: Dot Gov at July 28, 2011 04:16 PM (jEEpE)
Let's balance the budget the way the Democrats do.
We submit a budget with a bunch of tax hikes that don't take place until after the election.
They are tax hikes on liberals; Hollywood, the MSM, the Academy, Soros, etc.
Victory!
Posted by: frankly at July 28, 2011 04:16 PM (4FxhA)
Posted by: steve at July 28, 2011 04:17 PM (s7ag+)
Posted by: sexypig at July 28, 2011 04:17 PM (UmEOs)
Posted by: Barry Obama at July 28, 2011 04:18 PM (zgZzy)
$1.00 Dollar in real cuts.
One measly dollar.
If they agree that the amount the government can spend in 2012 is $1.00 less than the amount to be spent in 2011.
The sad thing is that would be the largest spending cut Washington has made in decades.
Come on, it's just one lousy dollar.
Posted by: GhostShip at July 28, 2011 04:18 PM (sbaXF)
Posted by: Buffalobob at July 28, 2011 04:18 PM (OhQBX)
That one is the least sincere, least authentic troll we've ever seen, including palin_steele.
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 04:18 PM (5H6zj)
There are more days now when I think we should just tear it all down and start from (almost) scratch. Kick every last one of the bums out and burn all their Departments and Programs. Make new rules.
Then I think, "but the people voted them in..." and I know we're just screwed. Does it matter anymore? All we can do is just stand by and watch everything fall deeper into chaos and ruin. Our "representatives" have lifelong death grips on their seats. As long as they're in power, we are not.
I have no more hope. It just doesn't seem worth it to even try.
Posted by: soulpile is... at July 28, 2011 04:19 PM (Mk/IQ)
Is this longest crisis of the Obama era? I can't wait for the next one. It should be a doozy.
Posted by: kansas at July 28, 2011 07:57 PMc
Operation Fast & Furious. There will be (more) blood.
Posted by: arhooley at July 28, 2011 04:19 PM (3J6Cw)
"wilding jackhammers."
There's a mental image for ya.
80sbaby, the COB 'baseline' includes automatic spending INCREASES each and every year. Those INCREASES in spending are what the Republicans and Dems are arguing about. They ARE NOT talking about cutting the current budget. The argument is about how much the increases will be. iow, they're all lying to us...and no budget proposed, thus far, deals with the real problem.
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at July 28, 2011 04:19 PM (E7Z1r)
Can't get the votes? BULLSHIT.
He knew the whole time he wouldn't get the votes; the Tea Partiers decided to take the flack so Boehner could say to Reid, "Hey pal, I tried but I'm roadblocked over here. I guess you're just going to have to make due with CCB...you know, the plan a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS LIKE." Ball now firmly back in Reid's court.
Genius, I tell you. GENIUS.
(prove me right, Boehner)
Posted by: brown gargantua at July 28, 2011 04:19 PM (B60j2)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 28, 2011 04:19 PM (eOXTH)
"can't get everything we want now, then let's just walk away."
Psycho Left: I'm going to kill you, kill and eat your children, and make your grandchildren sex slaves
Sexypig: Now now, don't be rash. Let's compromise. Let me live a bit longer.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:20 PM (UaxA0)
Yeah, I know. And as I said in the last thread, our son is willing to fight and die for her to treat his mother like crap.
He's worth a thousand of her worthless, stupid self.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:20 PM (UOM48)
Looks like we see the Tea Party burn out this election if the likes of it are included on this board.
"can't get everything we want now, then let's just walk away."
No. "can't get everything we want now, then let's just RELOAD." The target is 2013.
Posted by: arhooley at July 28, 2011 04:21 PM (3J6Cw)
GOP leadership, and now Ace, have adopted the strategy that we conservative types should work to make sure we don't get what we want, because then we'll be blamed for shit.
Apparently, we really screwed up by electing a GOP House in 2010; now we can get blamed for things. So we'll act as if we didn't win in 2010. Get it? That is the genius plan of Kraut, Kristol, WSJ, Ace, etc.
Posted by: Randall Hoven at July 28, 2011 04:21 PM (O8Spb)
Posted by: Drider at July 28, 2011 04:22 PM (uJSfP)
Still, we badly need tax and budgetary reforms - I'm just not entirely sold on a BBA yet.
I agree with that generally, which is why the type of BBA matters. A few have been written which have the proper limits, caps, and language related to taxes and raising taxes. That helps avoid the tax trap.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:22 PM (o2lIv)
Well, Truman is arguing that by dropping the plan and sending the House home, we win. I'm just pointing out that so far there's been absolutely no indication that doing so will force the Democrats into doing what we want.
It's great to draw lines, say "ENOUGH!" and "This far and no farther!" if it works, but so far the Tea Party holdouts aren't forcing the Democrats to cave.
What Truman wants is total victory. I just don't see that happening while the Democrats control the Senate and the White House.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 04:22 PM (uQA8F)
All of you geniuses on your high-horses can mock and snark and look down your noses at us EXXXTREMIST rustics. It doesn't hurt.
I say no deal until after August 10th. Recess the House or vote on non-binding resolutions for the next two weeks.
Making the needle tremble fitfully between 0 and 1 for three seconds and then taking a vacation isn't going to fix anything.
Changes to the engine are needed. Not a fuckin oil change.
I have been told my entire adult life that if I just went along with the smart Republicans (who laugh at our stupidity and can't stand us non-credentialed rustics) it would eventually get better and they would save the day.
Well, I have been voting for 20 years and busting my ass to get these fuckers elected and sending them money and we this to show for it:
They have failed to stop the slide toward communism.
They have failed to stop the destruction of the family.
They have failed to stop the passage of insane environmental laws.
They have failed to stop the murder of babies for convenience.
They have failed to stop the destruction of our national institutions.
They have failed to stem the tide of resource-robbing illegal aliens.
They have failed to stop the spread of perversion, nihilism, and atheism as public policy.
Each and every one of those issues above has been the platform of the Republican Party for my entire adult life.
I have been re-assured each election that if I just shut up and stop rocking the boat they will get to Washington and move the fucking needle feebly between 0 and 1.
Not good enough anymore.
I grew up poor on a farm in the California desert. So I don't know a lot about a lot. So let me try an analogy:
At some point around 115 degrees, it ceases to matter if it is 115 or 114. It's just too fucking hot and you need it to be 90 degrees now.
We are crawling like maggots over words and long games and plans while we get sold down the river and the Repo man is knocking at the front door.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 04:23 PM (ECjvn)
Freeze. It. Out.
Agree, that has always been the way I deal with trolls and other irritants.....don't respond, and don't read....
However, it posts so damn much it can be hard at times. Her inanity is on every damn thread, all day long.
Although I must say, some of the socks it inspires are pretty damn amusing.
(Oh, and pass the bill, said very grudgingly.)
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 04:23 PM (IshqP)
Harry Reid's been planning this for quite some time:
Briefing reporters yesterday (12/08/10), Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he's glad the debt ceiling was left out of this tax package. And he was unusually blunt about why.
"That's something that we talked about," Reid said. "My personal feeling is that I'm not sure -- and a lot of my caucus doesn't agree on this -- but I think it may be better to do the debt ceiling, raise it next year rather than now."
Why?
"I want the Republicans to have some buy-in on the debt," he said. "They're going to have a majority in the House. I think they should have some kind of a buy-in on the debt. I don't think it should be when we have a heavily Democratic Senate, a heavily Democratic House and a Democratic president."
The tax cut bill was probably the only vehicle by which Dems could have averted a filibuster and raised the debt ceiling this year. That ship has sailed, so now the question is whether Democrats will let Republicans set the terms of the debt ceiling debate next year. Republicans have been very clear that they'll try to use the threat of a default to force spending cuts. Reid seems awfully eager call soon-to-be Speaker John Boehner's bluff and watch him squirm.
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 28, 2011 04:25 PM (/kd4o)
I think Curious had a valid point and gripe but it came out in a horrible and disgusting way. Kind of like the flake question from Wallace to Bachmann.
THAT said, I've noticed that curious will make controversial statements, ignore the negative replies and then go on another thread pimping the tea party and Glenn Beck to get back in the good graces of commenters.
Way OT: I've gotten heat from defending McCain, slamming Palin, getting uppity about certain replies to my love life questions, getting into heavy arguments w/ some commenters that ends in us telling each other to fuck off, worrying Ace had some fake accounts during a meltdown of his, bitching about Allah, bitching about Beck and the Tea Party Express, even once for talking about the worrying trend of Hispanics becoming solidly Dem. Yet I am always accepted back pretty good, curious however just doesn't get too much love back.
What am I doing right? is it because I debate back? Because I dont start calling people selfish bitches? because I take the time to cool of?
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:26 PM (D6IZ4)
Sifty,
as a credentialed urbanite, let me say, you're not alone. NONE OF US ARE ALONE.
We can fight this by working together. Give support to the holdouts in the House. Send money, emails, calls, whatever.
Unltimately, we can even take things further. Hell, if the hippies can have communes, so the fuck can we. No income = no taxes, but we still keep families working and fed.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:27 PM (UaxA0)
according to S&P, we're gonna be downgraded debt ceiling or not...scary
and all under the Historic President that was gonna be the awesome accoridng to the indys and NY Times GOP folk
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:27 PM (D6IZ4)
Well, Truman is arguing that by dropping the plan and sending the House home, we win. I'm just pointing out that so far there's been absolutely no indication that doing so will force the Democrats into doing what we want.
No, not total victory. But the House needs to vote affirmatively on something in order for the debt ceiling to be raised. If they don't vote for a pile of shit, then we don't get a pile of shit. The worst case is we get CCB. The best case is the debt limit does not go up.
Posted by: Graham-Rudman at July 28, 2011 04:27 PM (K2wpv)
The only way we have gotten to this point where conservatives get a voice is because of the Tea Party, the Republicans had nothing to do with it. The loud "unreasonable" people moved the ball down the court while the others urged caution. "Stop moving the ball, it will upset the opposition! Wait unil 2016!" You would think they would learn that the way public opinion was changed was sticking to your principles and hammering the point home.
Posted by: Panther at July 28, 2011 04:28 PM (GxleY)
We are crawling like maggots over words and long games and plans while we get sold down the river and the Repo man is knocking at the front door.
There it is.
Posted by: USS Diversity at July 28, 2011 04:28 PM (KbEJl)
I think Curious had a valid point and gripe but it came out in a horrible and disgusting way. Kind of like the flake question from Wallace to Bachmann.
----------
Really? I'm not on SS, and neither is my husband. We're also not planning on taking it, in a small effort to help our son's generation.
And maybe curious should tell her parents how they're being selfish bitches, and they're part of the problem.
Please.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:29 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 08:26 PM (D6IZ4)
I would assume people think you are arguing in good faith. The same can't be said for it.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 04:29 PM (IshqP)
Things got really nasty, didn't they? Would we degenerate into that kind of chaos? Will someplace like Greece show us the way?
Think I'll go up to Gander Mountain tomorrow and clean them out of .380 and .45 loads, and get a couple cases of 12 gage buckshot loads. Maybe next week, too.
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at July 28, 2011 04:29 PM (4sQwu)
Posted by: Barky the Standup Comedian at July 28, 2011 04:30 PM (p2IBw)
I assume it's because you are made of flesh and bone, not papier mache.
Tish . . . that's French!
Posted by: Gomez Addams at July 28, 2011 04:30 PM (zgZzy)
Well, that wasn't so hard, was it?
Now can we get on to something intractable like how to get rid of the Designated Hitter?
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 04:31 PM (plesI)
Posted by: Chris Coons at July 28, 2011 04:31 PM (DsHk0)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 08:29 PM (UOM4
i'm refering to her as a young person (as am I) being drowned in debt because of old folks who want their paycheck. it's maddening and when I see my payroll cut down so I can pay into something I want no part of, it pisses me off,. Unfortunetly, Curious, as she does too much, made it personal and came off like, well...a selfish bitch
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:31 PM (D6IZ4)
Regarding where they set the baseline, it depends. Boehner's first bill was scored according to three different baselines with the primary being January. The one for which he received the score yesterday is post-CR. Also, the caps in the Boehner bill helped make a difference as to the score. Another thing-- CBO also makes assumptions about laws, war funding, and a whole host of other things, which also throws-off the score.
If it were up to me, CBO would stop using arcane methods that make so many assumptions and just use one baseline that factors-in policy at the time and gets rid of those policies when they expire. You could only do this by shortening the budget window, which is another thing I think is necessary. But you would still have to account for the rising rate of mandatory spending. I don't see how you can get away from that.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:31 PM (o2lIv)
What am I doing right? is it because I debate back? Because I dont start calling people selfish bitches? because I take the time to cool of?
You can have a discussion? You can disagree without being disagreeable? You don't go out of your way to kick people in the yam bag?
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (K2wpv)
THIS
THIS
THIS
Posted by: 18-1 at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (FBr/C)
And maybe curious should tell her parents how they're being selfish bitches, and they're part of the problem.
Please.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 08:29 PM (UOM4
Her parents are probably only 32.
Posted by: buzzion at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (oVQFe)
Now can we get on to something intractable like how to get rid of the Designated Hitter?
And interleague play please.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (IshqP)
I would recommend you do also, unless of course, your enjoying the fruits that this country has born over the last 20 years.
Actually, the problems go back 70 years, which is why they can't be solved by less than half of one branch of government in one election cycle.
Basically, you're demanding that establishment Republicans not act like establishment Republicans. That isn't going to happen, because they're ossified. The way to actually win is to replace them, which is going to take several election cycles.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (uQA8F)
I have, and millions other alongside of me, paid into this system for more years than I can remember and I won't see a dime out of any of it.
So yeah, my sympathy is only going so far with the AARP crowd. And by so far, I mean it goes no where. Not even to one on my sympathy meter.
That said, why blame each other? Thank decades of regressive policies & politicians that put us here.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 28, 2011 04:32 PM (qhz5R)
Can't wait for the media coverage of Barky, Moochelle and the kiddies scarfing down ice cream, buttered lobster, steak, etc. while on vacation on Martha's Vineyard in less than two weeks.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:33 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Chris Coons at July 28, 2011 08:31 PM (DsHk0)
might as well get the Obama 2012 bumper sticker now bud
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:33 PM (D6IZ4)
Now can we get on to something intractable like how to get rid of the Designated Hitter?
Easy. Nuke the AL. Only way to be sure.
Posted by: Bart Giamatti's Ghost at July 28, 2011 04:33 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: Graham-Rudman at July 28, 2011 08:27 PM (K2wpv)
Because $14,000,000,000,000 is enough debt.
Posted by: 18-1 at July 28, 2011 04:33 PM (FBr/C)
Posted by: Drider at July 28, 2011 04:34 PM (uJSfP)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 04:34 PM (TMB3S)
Well, that wasn't so hard, was it?
Now can we get on to something intractable like how to get rid of the Designated Hitter?
I can see you're being clever, but I'm not smart enough to keep up. Smaller words? I'm a functional retard.
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 04:34 PM (K2wpv)
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at July 28, 2011 04:35 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:35 PM (D6IZ4)
Point fingers at people who used (and continue to use) their votes and influence to grow the federal government past sustainability. But don't point fingers at people you don't know who happen to be a certain age.
And let's all hate on curious, 'cause it's the right thing to do.
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 04:35 PM (5H6zj)
Either way, DOOM
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at July 28, 2011 04:36 PM (XjARm)
The worst part about this whole thing is that there are very few politicians on either side telling the truth about what this actually is (shocker right?). I'd rather have Republicans saying "this is only a decrease in the increase in spending, but we have to do it because Democrats have the Senate and the White House" and drop all the meaningless "cuts" in the out-years.
Instead, they play along with the Orwellian language manipulation, which will only make real spending cuts even harder. It's all political posturing and it's symptomatic of the problem in DC.
Posted by: Bilbo at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (7p3+g)
How do we get the Senate and Obama to sign off on what we want?
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (uQA8F)
Can't get the votes? BULLSHIT.
He knew the whole time he wouldn't get the votes; the Tea Partiers decided to take the flack so Boehner could say to Reid, "Hey pal, I tried but I'm roadblocked over here. I guess you're just going to have to make due with CCB...you know, the plan a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS LIKE." Ball now firmly back in Reid's court.
Genius, I tell you. GENIUS.
(prove me right, Boehner
I think he honestly thought he had it after the momentum starting swinging his way. But lawmakers on both sides of the debate have dug-in their heels and I think Boehner was not expecting such fierce resistance from some who had previously been open to the plan. Just goes to show that his charm offensive and attempts at inspiration are not as effective as he thinks they are.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (o2lIv)
Yes, there are some people, myself included, who would like to see the government play by the same accounting rules that they hold our businesses to. Nothing irks me more (well, it depends what day it is and how much I've had to drink) than when a politician in the House or Senate grills a successful businessman about their accounting practices while they continue to run off of some form of accounting that pre-dates the T chart. Speaking of drinking, I have been, which is why I refer you to Deroy Murdoch for a fuller examination of the calamity that is government accounting.
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 08:34 PM (TMB3S)
And there's probably also a reason Boehner doesn't have the GOP votes to pass it right now.
And given that Reid and Obama don't want this thing, and zomg we only have one-half of one third of the government and CCB is better, why are we pushing for this caucus-splitting bill again?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: The Donkey Show (Will never use HTML under penalty of DOOM) at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (ijjAe)
Posted by: Nora at July 28, 2011 04:37 PM (VxqUc)
Point fingers at people who used (and continue to use) their votes and influence to grow the federal government past sustainability. But don't point fingers at people you don't know who happen to be a certain age.
And let's all hate on curious, 'cause it's the right thing to do.
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 08:35 PM (5H6zj)
This. And I'll bet all her super-smart Lib/Dem imaginary friends voted for Obama and thus gave us Obamacare. So hopefully some day, when they're a certain age, they'll be denied that heart stent, knee replacement, cataract surgery, cancer treatment they need.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:38 PM (UOM48)
Now cn we ge on 2 somit intractable lk h2 gt rid of d design8d Hitter?
Is that better, Truman North?
/Curious, I think it's time to feed your cats. Get them Meow Mix, stat!
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 28, 2011 04:38 PM (c0A3e)
Posted by: George Costanza at July 28, 2011 04:39 PM (KbEJl)
Posted by: Ed From Tepid Air at July 28, 2011 04:39 PM (VxqUc)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 04:39 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 08:34 PM (K2wpv)
What did you think was going to happen? Everyone was going to jump on your "don't raise the debt ceiling" bandwagon? It was a nice rant and all but it doesn't mean anything.
Posted by: lowandslow at July 28, 2011 04:39 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 04:40 PM (lGFXF)
Posted by: Methos at July 28, 2011 04:40 PM (sOXQX)
We're going in the shitter anyway so CCB or nothing.
Posted by: ronno at July 28, 2011 04:41 PM (nQR0p)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:41 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 08:32 PM (K2wpv)
You're bringin' it tonight brudda. Good stuff.
I just hope that when DrewM was talking about getting rid of the Designated Hitter he wasn't referencing you.
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 04:41 PM (HBqDo)
btw according to all polls, yes, the GOP will get the blame worse then Obama...BUT Obama gets blame more then support AT THE SAME TIME. Obama's approvals are going to the low 40s in some polls even as the MSM claims the public backs him. PLUS, the polls show most don't want the ceiling raised even while wanting to blame everyone if there's a default. And that CCB bill gets 70%+ support. we should hammer the fact Obama finds balancing the budget draconian and that the GOP has passed a bill and voting on a new one. the Dems just talk trash.
In the end, I think the country is just pissed of at everyone and confused with what they want and who to blame.
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:41 PM (D6IZ4)
Posted by: Alabaster Jones formerly polynikes at July 28, 2011 04:42 PM (cNFJa)
MPOTheHill: Ouch. RT @JohnJHarwood: Frustrated GOP House member aligned w/Boehner, on last-minute vote scramble: "piss-poor whip operation."
That's an understatement.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:42 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 08:41 PM (o2lIv)
Yeah. She funny.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:42 PM (UOM48)
Yup. Nothing any of us does or says means anything. We're fucked.
I've got tequila and sleeping pills, who's got the razor blades?
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 28, 2011 04:42 PM (0vDuM)
In the end, I think the country is just pissed of at everyone and confused with what they want and who to blame. there will be only chaos.
FIFY.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 28, 2011 04:43 PM (c0A3e)
Even with the Boehner bill, the DEBT will be approaching $30,000 Billion Total in 10 years at this rate. We have to pass a balanced budget amendment and force the democrats who ran on passing one in the senate to do it. They need to run away from Reid. He's crazy, or had a stroke or something worse. Listen to him speak. He, along with Pelosi cannot pronounce words correctly, and seem detached from reality.
Most people 'in the know' don't even get the difference between the deficit and the debt. Every hour you can hear pundits on both sides talking about them as if they are the same thing.
If we don't correct this, with $30,000 Billion in debt, we will be forced to go on a total war type economy to pay down that debt. Probably for 5 years or more. Ration cards for food and gas and other horrors. The surplus of our GDP will have to be used to pay off our creditors. I'd rather something happen now, then pass this on to my grandkids... Or have to fight hordes of insane democrats when i'm older and a worse shot.
We will also be able to see the current idiots who call themselves 'public SERVANTS' be forced to work without pay for awhile. Yeah, sucks huh? Time for Washington blue-bloods to see what its like for the rest of us
Posted by: Harry Reids valium dealer at July 28, 2011 04:44 PM (eXQfZ)
I have blades strapped to my very forearms, you dirt-grubbing radish.
Who wants to go first?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 28, 2011 04:44 PM (c0A3e)
That's how I look at it. Thomas Sowell and John Bolton are also on board.
The Dems literally have the country over a barrel, but the country allowed it to happen over the past 70 years. I just don't see how we get everything we want right now, since Obama has rightly deduced that if he gives in any more to the GOP, he's toast. His base is screaming at him, and his advisers have yanked him off the air. Plus, the Dems are the puppets of incredibly dense, short-sighted people whose mantra is "I don't care how you do it, but give us more money."
By the way, the worst time for the country will be after November of 2012, when Obama's a lame duck. Look for him to get his revenge on us by signing executive orders to do as much damage as he can.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 04:44 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: Barack Obama's Barbed Cock at July 28, 2011 04:44 PM (H0dXA)
Well, that wasn't so hard, was it?
Now can we get on to something intractable like how to get rid of the Designated Hitter?
Has this habit of talking down your nose at other people and immediately dismissing them as cretins been a life-long thing or is just an internet affectation?
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 04:45 PM (ECjvn)
First let's start where we agree....
$22 billion in FY-12 is idiotic. It's below the Ryan level. I don't care that the Dems won't accept more. It's an opening bid in a negotiation, coming in at a reasonable level is stupid. We should come in at a trillion and work down from there.
If you want to complain about the idiocy of the CBO and baseline budgeting, fine. I agree with a lot of that.
I also agree that this is a one year deal, that's why we should get as much as we can from a Democratic Senate and Obama.
Beyond that...not raising the debt limit is simply not in the realm of reality. There are 2 months left in the fiscal year. You can't cut enough money without major disruptions to not only people receiving entitlement checks but vendors who actually provided the government with goods and services, the military, veterans, etc.
You are acting as if there are no legitimate functions of government that we should pay for (in fact have already committed to pay for). There are. You are simply saying "fuck them'. That's not only political suicide, it's a great way to ruin the fucking country.
What the fuck do you think is going to happen to millions of jobs and businesses expecting to get paid for what they've done? What exactly do you think is going to happen to credit in this country for business that don't do business with the government when the markets tank?
We've take almost a half century to get this fucked up. Walking away in a snit isn't going to solve it.
Adults make choices, often tough ones. You are simply suggesting something that feels good but would have far more dangerous consequences that you are simply ignoring.
It's a shit sandwich, no doubt about it but that doesn't mean we should take that shit and smear it all over the place.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 04:45 PM (plesI)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:45 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: steevy at July 28, 2011 04:45 PM (fq7xf)
Posted by: nickless at July 28, 2011 04:45 PM (MMC8r)
Enjoy yourselves.
I missed out on the slams to the older generations but, frankly, it doesn't surprise me.
You'll never be an old fogey in our eyes
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 04:46 PM (piMMO)
This is supposed to be scary and impressive, really?
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:46 PM (o2lIv)
Boehner skipped step 2. The Dems never made a counter! The only offer ever made (in writing, in public, in votes) was CCB. Why on God's Green Earth did Boehner come back with a 2nd offer bearing zero resemblance to the first? This 2nd offer is so great in moving to "middle ground" that he can't even get the Dem votes he got for CCB! This is insanity on steroids.
Chuck Schumer is laughing his ass off at how stupid Republicans are. And he's justified. They've got to be raising toasts to Speaker Boehner every time they get together.
Posted by: Randall Hoven at July 28, 2011 04:46 PM (O8Spb)
It was a nice rant and all but it doesn't mean anything.
Yup. Nothing any of us does or says means anything. We're fucked.
I've got tequila and sleeping pills, who's got the razor blades?
It's Atlas Shrugged without the happy ending.
Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2011 04:47 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 04:47 PM (ufd0+)
Posted by: t-bird at July 28, 2011 04:47 PM (FcR7P)
Doesn't mean they are correct.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 08:39 PM (TMB3S)
Nothing in the Boehner plan is correct to start with, it's purely a political move. You can't just consider one section of the board, you have to consider the whole thing. Boehner was rock stupid for putting forward a plan his caucus might revolt on.
It's like during the Delaware primary - everybody was hurling invective at those bastard purists for voting against Mike Castle, when the obvious idiot in the whole affair was...Mike Castle, who lost a primary he could have won if he hadn't acted like it was a coronation.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 04:47 PM (uhAkr)
I wasn't talking about myself. I'm not elderly (yet). I was missing my folks who died way too soon.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:47 PM (UOM48)
Any majority the Republicans had in 2012, they would lose in 2014 if they did anything meaningful. And then? This is the problem.
The party that we are hoping to cut entitlements and put the country on the right fiscal track is disproportionately made up of elderly voters. So, we have to do like Ryan did, find a way to have a ten year, fifteen year window on any entitlement changes. We aren't going to hold government consistently for that long to ensure that the changes aren't reversed..
'Wait for 2012' isn't a fiscal rallying cry. It is a political plan. It won't work to really put the country on a positive track long-term.
Posted by: Paper at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (B5qn7)
Basically, you're demanding that establishment Republicans not act like establishment Republicans. That isn't going to happen, because they're ossified.
Then why do you demand that we buy into the whole rotten system? Sorry, but I learned a valuable moral lesson early in life: when the Nazis demanded that the Jew elders pick who was to live and who was to die, they became morally compromised. Then the bastards gassed them too. Reading about that, I promised myself I wasn't going to be either the guards following orders or the elders protecting their kin over others. If someone is going to commit evil, they aren't going to exempt you forever, or even for long.
At this point, we conservatives should not do anything more to further this sham of a republic. It is the only ethical course of action left.
Stone can only be broken with a hard smack. Failing to pass ANYTHING is a pretty good hit.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (UaxA0)
the local radio guy who is FOR the Boehner plan has admitted that Boehner could lose his speakership because of his actions in all of this, and Cantor could be speaker
thoughts?
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (D6IZ4)
I think Boehner made a major mistake in taking two straight turns in this game of Russian Roulette but to do so without knowing he already had the votes? That's damn near criminal.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (plesI)
A. No, he cannot.
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (mfWu+)
They've been 2 short for several hrs.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:48 PM (o2lIv)
Or does this expose the farce that is 'deficit' reduction...?
The average family facing a credit crisis has their credit cards taken away and they have to actually start paying down the debt. Spending more just because you've set up a house of cards all dependent upon deficit spending doesn't fly for homeowners... Shouldn't fly for government...
The Constitutional requirement to "Preserve liberty to ourselves and our posterity" would seem to preclude enslaving future's to pay for today's incompetent big spending politicians.
Posted by: drfredc at July 28, 2011 04:49 PM (MPEVT)
I've got tequila and sleeping pills, who's got the razor blades?
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 28, 2011 08:42 PM (0vDuM)
No you tell me, how is Truman North's post going to solve anything? It may may make you feel like you're speaking truth to power or something but at the end of the day it's internet babble and hand-wringing. Besides, Turman's the one that's telling everyone that's pushing for change is futile.
Posted by: lowandslow at July 28, 2011 04:49 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 28, 2011 04:49 PM (eOXTH)
The Dems literally have the country over a barrel, but the country allowed it to happen over the past 70 years. I just don't see how we get everything we want right now,
It sucks but that's about the size of it.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you're going to go pure on this one (and I admit this is one of the few issues to be pure over) then you shouuldn't be surprised by what comes in its wake - 30% interest on your credit cards, mortgage rates approaching Carter-era levels, whatever savings you managed to have cut by a third or more due to inflation and tanking markets.
No fucking magic bullet here. We let the inmates run the asylum too long.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 28, 2011 04:49 PM (HUZDZ)
I'm either voting Libertarian or staying home from now on. Fuck off.
Obama thanks you for your 2012 support
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 04:50 PM (D6IZ4)
Most of the budget isn't paying businesses for rendering services to the government. It's giving welfare checks to professional deadbeats. Half Social Security and Medicaid are going to people that never paid squat into the system, this is a big reason why we have a problem. Those programs are in trouble supporting those whom actually paid into the system, throw in all the parasites and the picture of how screwed up entitlement spending has become gets a lot worse.
Posted by: The Donkey Show (Will never use HTML under penalty of DOOM) at July 28, 2011 04:50 PM (ijjAe)
I keep hearing this, and keep asking myself who's going to do what after we've gone off and died on a hill.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 04:50 PM (IhrXZ)
And Geraldo's all over it.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 04:50 PM (UOM48)
Boehner's made major mistakes throughout this entire mess, though he was doing better before this bill. But yes, attempting to rush just because the momentum is in your favor is ridiculous. This also wouldn't be happening if his people had tightened-up the bill in the more deficient areas instead of making four major fixes. The few hold-outs who would have been yeses are doing so because these things weren't corrected.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:51 PM (o2lIv)
It would only happen if Boehner stepped down from Congress.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 04:51 PM (IhrXZ)
The slams at the young aren't much better.
I'm sorry your parents and grandparents decided they'd rather pay the government take care of their parents and stuck us with this shitty system of stealing from the young to give to the old, but what is fucking over your kids and grandkids (and the new immigrants who want to work) going to accomplish? It just makes you as greedy and simple-minded as the people who fucked you over.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 28, 2011 04:52 PM (0vDuM)
And Geraldo's all over it.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 08:50 PM
It doesn't matter what it is, if it needs an apologist, Geraldo is there.
Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2011 04:52 PM (aZLY2)
A. Yes, but only when mixed with diet Pepsi (which is delicious though should be boycotted because of the O symbololgy, but I choose best products).
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 04:52 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: toby928™ at July 28, 2011 04:52 PM (GTbGH)
A. you should take the first choice. However, if you've never had a real job outside of campaigning for jobs you would choose B, because you're an idiot. Rainman could make the right call on this and it doesn't even involve underwear from K-Mart.
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: John Bradley at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (MOHgW)
That is a great idea. Super cereal! Those krazy koz kidz sure helped me when they went Nader in 2000.
Posted by: President Gore at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (VxqUc)
I hope the R's pass something... even if it dies in the Senate.
It throws the ball back in the Dems corner which.. they dont have ANY plan.
It doesn't do shit.
CC&B, Boener II, and now Boener III will all die ignominious deaths. Unknown, unwept, unmourned, unloved.
no one will even know whether anything got passed, and will still blame everything on conservative "intransigence"
Fuck. It. All.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (UaxA0)
Clearly you are for chaos, anarchy, civil unrest, and all the other 'stuff' that will happen if we don't let our Masters behave as they please.
(Great post)
Posted by: blindside at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (X1Y8q)
Nice work on the poll put up today, Palin Spammers.
Christ.
Perry was over 50% this morning.
Next poll leave her off.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (IshqP)
Medicare and Medicaid payments aren't to individuals, they are to doctors, hospitals, medical device makers and other health care providers who already provided services based on a contract.
I didn't know not paying people who have provided a service you agreed to pay for was a conservative value.
You learn something new every day.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 04:53 PM (plesI)
It's people like you that want to ruin this country.
/
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 04:54 PM (OhYCU)
Drew,
You would agree that some form of default or collapse is inevitable, no?
I mean our government's growth at this point is unstoppable whomever is in control.
The spending is baked into the cake. We will never, ever be able pay off the debts we have taken on.
So where do we go from here?
Even if the Republicans the senate and executive, what can they do? Delay a reckoning for another decade?
I am sympathetic to your argument. I want a political solution to be possible, I don't want what is going to happen to America to happen, but if not now when?
Is there going to be a time when it will be less painful than now?
Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2011 04:54 PM (DKV43)
Our money is worthless at this point, the sooner people acknowledge that, the sooner something can be done to fix it. This whole game of pretending the debt away can't go on forever.
Posted by: The Donkey Show (Will never use HTML under penalty of DOOM) at July 28, 2011 04:54 PM (ijjAe)
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at July 28, 2011 04:54 PM (XjARm)
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 08:45 PM (plesI)
Moot points on a tequila, sleeping pills and razor blade thread. Snap the fuck out of it.
Boehner just spit in my house and burned my daughter down. Haven't you read anything?
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 04:55 PM (HBqDo)
This must be the week for Davey Crockett quotes:
In a letter written after his defeat in the election of 1830, he wrote:
“I would rather be beaten and be a man than to be elected and be a little puppy dog. I have always supported measures and principles and not men. I have acted fearless[ly] and independent and I never will regret my course. I would rather be politically buried than to be hypocritically immortalized.”
Posted by: RushBabe at July 28, 2011 04:55 PM (Ew27I)
Nice work on the poll put up today, Palin Spammers.
Christ.
Perry was over 50% this morning.
Palin voters had to work today
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 04:55 PM (OhYCU)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at July 28, 2011 04:56 PM (vbEjv)
I'm agreeing with you, asshole. There's no point. We're doomed.
But Obama has just saved the old people by forcing those evil Rethuglikkkans to give them their checks next week, so we have that going for us.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 28, 2011 04:56 PM (0vDuM)
Obama thanks you for your 2012 support
The pain will come sooner and maybe be shorter, at least. While I'm young enough to hold a rifle.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 04:57 PM (UaxA0)
/dont h8te me
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 04:57 PM (OhYCU)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 28, 2011 08:54 PM (qhz5R)
Opie's idea of action is nuking some popcorn.
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 04:57 PM (HBqDo)
I'm agreeing with you, asshole. There's no point. We're doomed.
this.
We pass it, we're fucked a little bit further down the road, we don't pass it we're fucked now.
Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2011 04:58 PM (DKV43)
People are unclear on the purpose of polls, I think.
I think we know what the real result was. I hope Gabe posts a graph showing the "votes" over time.
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 04:58 PM (5H6zj)
Nice work on the poll put up today, Palin Spammers.
Christ.
Perry was over 50% this morning.
Next poll leave her off.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 08:53 PM (IshqP)
The student has become the master.
Posted by: !!RON PAUL!! at July 28, 2011 04:58 PM (IhrXZ)
Have you ever seen the investigations into Medicare/Medicaid payments going to phony providers or nonexistent patients? We are talking billions of dollars being paid every year to professional scam artists without the Feds batting an eyelash.
Posted by: The Donkey Show (Will never use HTML under penalty of DOOM) at July 28, 2011 04:58 PM (ijjAe)
thoughts?
A definite possibility but could be more likely after 2012. But if they ousted Boehner, they might get rid of Cantor and McCarthy as well. The fight over choosing new leaders would be rather intense.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 04:58 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 08:53 PM (plesI)
Didn't know that waving the white flag at the first opportunity was a conservative value either.
Doesn't look good when you throw a fit because a different point of view gets posted on the front page. Relax, people will probably still read what you write. Probably.
Posted by: Panther at July 28, 2011 04:59 PM (GxleY)
Um, there was that whole issue of the DREAM Act a few weeks back. Then of course Libya, which wasn't by EO by done by way of total disregard of his powers. So yeah, absotut-tut-tut-ely!
Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 28, 2011 04:59 PM (qhz5R)
Posted by: Paul at July 28, 2011 05:00 PM (DsHk0)
Have people forgotten that Reid and Soetero are going to kill the Boehner plan? How does this help us again? Why is it imperative we support Dear Boehner?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 05:00 PM (uhAkr)
I'm winking at you Trueman. Wink. Ing.
Posted by: Jack at July 28, 2011 05:00 PM (8IAHO)
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 08:58 PM (5H6zj)
I hope he puts Snooki up as a choice on the next poll. Equal time for reality stars!!!!1!
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:00 PM (IhrXZ)
Palin voters had to work today
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 08:55 PM (OhYCU)
---
Gee, looking at the job totals, I'd say the Perry voters in Texas were likely to be at work, too.
Give it up, cherry. We know what happened. The poll went up at 7:30 Eastern. The sampling was consistent until a certain time of day, then the poll was flooded.
The comments did make for amusing reading, however.
Posted by: Y-not at July 28, 2011 05:00 PM (5H6zj)
If I thought letting it blow up would lead to a better solution on the other end (even far, far down the road) I'd be for it. I don't see how doing that leads to something better.
We have to win a fight for the hearts and minds of the American people (STOP fucking demanding free stuff from the government) and need to keep this contraption going as long as we can while making what improvements we can.
The kind of societal dislocations Truman's "let it burn" approach would lead to wouldn't just end the GOP and conservatism, it would end America as we know it/want it to be.
Societal chaos and economic depression often lead to a centralizing of government power. I emailed someone the idea with a dark thought...a crash is EXACTLY what Obama wants. I'm not saying he'd cancel elections but he'd create all sorts of emergency control boards that would get deep into everything we do. It would take generations to undo that, if we ever could (we're still trying to get out from under FDRs emergency regulatory state).
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:01 PM (plesI)
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 05:01 PM (OhYCU)
Obama thanks you for your 2012 support
Do I sound like I give a shit? The federal empire is corrupt and criminal. Let the corrupt criminals run it. Let them fill up their guilt to the brim and receive the due reward.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 05:01 PM (ufd0+)
And Rush just needs to either run for office or shut the fuck up. I get tired of his Monday morning quarterbacking when he never bear any responsibility for his actions. Where is your budget Rush?
You win the game 10 yards at a time. You don't throw a deep bomb every play. Wake up people.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 28, 2011 05:01 PM (uVlA4)
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 05:02 PM (OhYCU)
Do you remember the bills agreed to 10 years ago? not a chance. Most people don't even remember Obama PROMISING to reduce his deficit by 50% in the first 4 years. At the time, his deficit was 1.3 trillion. He's added to it every year. If he held his promise, we'd be at around $600 billion in the hole year upon year. He's got us at nearly 2,000 billion now.
For people for the Boehner bill, do you really think congress 10 years from now will be making cuts because of a bill passed today? There is no fucking chance.
Let it burn!
I'm sick of the panic president.
OMG pass the stimulus or we'll die!!
OMG pass the auto bailout or we'll lose 10 million jobs overnight!! now now!!
OMG pass Obamacare because this poor old lady needs a hip replacement!! It'll create 600,000 jobs right away!!! (note - people stopped hiring because of Obamacare.. and are hiring based on health)
OMG pass wallstreet reform NOW or the market will collapse again!!!
OMG pass the debt ceiling raise or we'll be sacked by the visigoths waiting outside the gates!! holyshit!!!
Is there a pattern here? my, yes dear. Its all bullshit. Worst case right now is we can only spend the money we have coming in.. aka THE REAL WORLD for the rest of us
Posted by: Win the Future! derrrr at July 28, 2011 05:02 PM (eXQfZ)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:02 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:02 PM (o2lIv)
it's a great way to ruin the fucking country.
I didn't know not paying people who have provided a service you agreed to pay for was a conservative value.
No, a CONSERVATIVE value is to pay your own fucking way, asshole. No Medicare/aid Doctor gave me any services. It's this fucking ratchet mentality that has killed the Republican party.
The country is done for.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 05:02 PM (UaxA0)
At this point if the bill passes, I don't really care. Use what small political amount of political capital you get from the senate voting against and move on.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 05:03 PM (mf8Ua)
Btw, Palin gained around 1000 votes in the last three hours, since the last time I checked it. Perry around 200.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 05:03 PM (IshqP)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at July 28, 2011 05:04 PM (vbEjv)
It is done. Thanks to people like you. Hey, at least you'll feel pure in your militia compound.
Posted by: packsoldier at July 28, 2011 05:05 PM (mPG7G)
Jeez, don't you moron's know how to play trillion-dimension chess?
Posted by: mugiwara at July 28, 2011 05:05 PM (KI/Ch)
Societal chaos and economic depression often lead to a centralizing of government power. I emailed someone the idea with a dark thought...a crash is EXACTLY what Obama wants. I'm not saying he'd cancel elections but he'd create all sorts of emergency control boards that would get deep into everything we do. It would take generations to undo that, if we ever could (we're still trying to get out from under FDRs emergency regulatory state).
A legitimate fear and something I've thought about, specifically historical evidence that economic crashes almost always lead to more repressive and centralized governments.
People tend to line up behind the first person who claims to have the answers no matter how horrific they are.
But, I'm just not sure how we win this one in the long run. I don't see how what we're doing is little more than prolonging the inevitable.
That said, let's pass the Boehner plan, I don't think it'll make much of a difference either way. I think Harry Reid and Obama have decided to fall back onto an executive order and unilaterally raising the debt ceiling and then letting the courts fight it out anway.
Posted by: The DNC at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (DKV43)
Ryan on the House floor
"I know let's cover the moon in yoghurt!"
It was rather odd yet effective.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (o2lIv)
Maybe. What it definitely is, though, is pretty stupid, both as an analogy, and as a description of the Child-Emperor's actions.
Posted by: Waterhouse at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (SQP5L)
Posted by: Drider at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (uJSfP)
To be fair, he has a tough task made tougher courtesy McConnell's stunt from last week which undermined CCB. McConnell started this domino. And whipping is clearly tough. But the thing that pissed me off was Boehner going public about telling those still with issues with his shi!!y plan to "get their asses in line." Who does he think he is? He owes his position and any recognition at all as a player to the Tea Party caucus and the elder conservatives holding their own.
Boehner and the leadership (and the Bill Kristol - WSJ punditocracy) are making this a personal affront to them as opposed to a legitimate beef with policy and national stability. In that regard, he has failed.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (r4t7/)
Fuck it - let's get it over with so the howling about how only 20 million was 'cut' and Obama was given a 2.4 trillion increase that should last until 2013 can begin.
Then we can finally get on with the Fast & Furious hearings, and impeaching Eric Holder.
Of course, then we'll hear 'we can't impeach him for engaging in a conspiracy to smuggle weapons across the border, violate treaties and international law as well as attempt to abridge the 2nd Amendment. We only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government. Stop being such idiots, and take the long view. 2013 is the prize!'
I'm calling it right fucking now.
Posted by: blindside at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (X1Y8q)
Posted by: fluffy at July 28, 2011 05:06 PM (4Kl5M)
The three options for Bernanke are to i) book profits; ii) prepay expenses and, yes, iii) sell gold. Combined, these three approaches could squeeze out well over half a trillion dollars, giving the Treasury breathing room not only past August 2, but potentially into 2012!
Posted by: ronno at July 28, 2011 05:07 PM (nQR0p)
How is it easier to get $3 trillion (hah) in cuts 6 months from now? Are we winning the Senate in 6 months?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 05:07 PM (uhAkr)
IOW, Obama and his Magic Red Cape will swoop in, 14th amendment style, and tell Granny and Grampy that he will assure they receive their payments....and at least half of them will believe him.
Posted by: Lady in Black at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (EIlEQ)
Huge big balls that are the size of elephants and made of solid brass.
Regardless of what road we wish to take, it all rides on the balls now.
We aim to deliver at the AOSHQ.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (piMMO)
Apparently not informed enough to know who the actual candidates are. Oh, and !!!RON PALIN™ PAUL!!!
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (IhrXZ)
I'll tell you, we win by positioning ourselves to win in 2012 by capturing independents.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (uVlA4)
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 28, 2011 09:04 PM (OWjjx)
I'd say this is how I really feel. I'm torn b/w both sides. I'd prob vote on the bill unless some last second change of mind happend after talking w/ some tea party congressman who might change my mind. I posted arguments for and against the bill on twitter. I'm just at the point i'm gonna watch what happens and see how it plays out. as things stand now, I think Boehner's bill may fail tonight unless there's some last second developments
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (D6IZ4)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:08 PM (o2lIv)
"I know let's cover the moon in yoghurt!"
Fucking RINO! Where's my yogurt?
Posted by: The Sun at July 28, 2011 05:09 PM (IhrXZ)
The three options for Bernanke are to i) book profits; ii) prepay expenses and, yes, iii) sell gold. Combined, these three approaches could squeeze out well over half a trillion dollars, giving the Treasury breathing room not only past August 2, but potentially into 2012!
if we sell out gold we might as well jump of a bridge.
We will have nothing of value then. Just worthless paper.
Posted by: Ben at July 28, 2011 05:09 PM (DKV43)
I'll tell you, we win by positioning ourselves to win in 2012 by capturing independents.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 28, 2011 09:08 PM (uVlA4)
We win EVERYBODY when we show this all bullshit.
Posted by: ronno at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (nQR0p)
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (IshqP)
But Obama has just saved the old people by forcing those evil Rethuglikkkans to give them their checks next week, so we have that going for us.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 28, 2011 08:56 PM (0vDuM)
No you're not agreeing with me, I don't buy into this fuck'n doomed shit that has taken on a live of it's own. As if the only thing that makes America a great country with ample opportunities and bright future is the current crop of political leaders. I'm old enough to remember this same shit back in the late seventies.
I don't know what it is with the internet but nobody spouts this crap anywhere else, well except maybe that one asshole everyone usually hates. It's like a contest going on now to see who can piss and moan louder or present the most asinine solution not based in any political reality.
Posted by: lowandslow at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (GZitp)
Ryan on the House floor
"I know let's cover the moon in yoghurt!"
Aha! He's plagiarizing George Will! and good on 'em for doing it!
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (piMMO)
I hear the Chinese are in the market for some aircraft carriers to crib off of.
Posted by: Waterhouse at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (SQP5L)
You have a lot more faith in a committee divided evenly between Reid/Pelosi and Boehner/McConnell appointees to come with an acceptable reform of entitlements and the tax code.
There's no way Democrats will do that 6 months before an election where there one issue will be "Republicans want to kill old people".
I doubt that commission survives the final deal or more likely there's an escape hatch put in that raises the limit if they don't come up with a plan or it fails to pass.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:10 PM (plesI)
Q. If you're outgunned is it best to chip away at the opponent's defenses slowly and overtime until you're on equal footing, or is a frontal charge preferable?
A. Frontal charge, because I, like Han Solo will run and scream with a blaster whilst chasing storm troopers through the Death Star until I eventually end up in their locker room where I'll then be forced to flee....or get raped.
B. Chip away and achieve victory over time.
C. Third Rail bitches! Go AWOL from the current allies and attempt to form my own army which will be a thorn in the sides of everyone and will, in the end, be reduced to a parody of my original intent (see Cindy Sheehan).
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 05:11 PM (mfWu+)
Preach it brutha! Exactly right Truman.
What I don't get is when I hear the likes of Laura Ingraham getting on board with this crap and asking "what next if we don't pass it?" What next?!? Nothing. It is said the Senate wouldn't pass it anyway, so why the hell do the House RINOs capitulate and pass it? That just swings wide open the door to the MBM to blame Repubs (Tea Party OR RINO). WTF? Over.
Posted by: dogfish at July 28, 2011 05:11 PM (N2yhW)
Posted by: steevy at July 28, 2011 05:11 PM (fq7xf)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:11 PM (TMB3S)
Also, I'd rather take my chances that we get the Senate and the White House and can come up with a better entitlement reform plan that way then have to deal with the Pelosi/Reid committee members.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:12 PM (plesI)
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 08:23 PM (ECjvn)
!!!!!Eleventy!!!!! Cut, jib, yada, yada. AND I think you should run for office. Srsly.
Posted by: RushBabe at July 28, 2011 05:12 PM (Ew27I)
I think the incompetence political nut-snuggling on display these past few days are going to assure that our credit rating gets cut, no matter what transpires at this point.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 05:12 PM (piMMO)
The ironic thing is that spending $5 trillion to cover the moon in yogurt would actually be stimulative
Sweet fancy Moses.
Posted by: Waterhouse at July 28, 2011 05:13 PM (SQP5L)
Posted by: Kevin at July 28, 2011 05:13 PM (TK7YF)
At last, someone with the sense -- and balls -- to say out loud that Boner, Reid and Osama Obama should ALL take a flying fuck. Or, better, should be clapped in jail until they figure out a plan that doesn't absolutely destroy what's left of the economy.
Everyone who has been babbling about "take the best you can get (even if it destroys the country}" and "if you're not winning this battle, regroup and try again later" are missing ONE BIG FUCKING POINT: If this battle kills you, how the fuck do you "regroup?"
This is our Hiroshima. The Traitor-in-Chief has been mowing us down for more than two years as the head of an army that has been decimating us for decades. Now he drops the nuke.
What you gonna do?
General Boner seems to want to use the radiation to beef up his tan.
Sorry to Ace, "Poppin' Fresh," Sowell, Bolton and everyone who thinks we should just make peace signs, sing Kumbyah with the fuckin' pampered fatcats in D.C. and maybe, just maybe, in de sweet by and by we be seein' dat pie in de sky. It ain't happening that way. Never has, never will. When you lose in this game, you lose all the way.
Posted by: MrScribbler at July 28, 2011 05:13 PM (YjjrR)
Hey -- I was bitching at Gabe about his Romer exclusion this morning. Just wanted to let you know I had your (or Buddy's) back.
You the man!
I will still be forced to kick your behind in Fantasy Football. I joined last night.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 05:14 PM (IshqP)
The Villages,Florida's friendliest home town!
Click on 130. It will knock that happy little jingle right out of your head.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 05:14 PM (piMMO)
So, while I am on board with current efforts to delay the inevitable, I suggest to anyone with the means to stock up on guns, ammo, food and krugerrands. (That does not include me - I have no means to speak of right now). And that will only improve your statistical chance of surviving the inevitable collapse, not guarantee it.
The only consolation I have is that the coming fiscal apocalypse will be the great equalizer - al those people with 401K's, Roth IRA's and hundreds of thousands in the bank will suddenly find all their holdings worthless and the only worth they have will be money or barter they can bring in Today. Which will put me on a par with all of them, and mebbe a notch up, since I am a pretty handy guy.
Posted by: West at July 28, 2011 05:14 PM (2p2rY)
Posted by: JBS at July 28, 2011 05:14 PM (8J/cL)
Can someone on the far right in this discussion explain to me how we win this outright when we control only 1/3 of the government and Obama has the MSM in his back pocket?
What do you do when the game is rigged? Don't play. That's the only way to "win." There is no real winning here. The nation is on an inexorable, mathematicallly certain, unsustainable path. How is it more politically and morally palatable to allow for a slow and creeping collapse instead of a more rapid one while the largest demographic cohort in the nation is at least still mostly ambulatory?
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 05:15 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:15 PM (D6IZ4)
People like to be successful. To be on the winning team. Success has a thousand fathers, etc.
For some, winning a vote means everything. Even if it's a vote on what to order for lunch.
DO SOMETHING! is a siren call.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:15 PM (ECjvn)
Oh, and !!!RON PALIN™ PAUL!!!
We need a Palin/ Paul deathmatch poll. See who has the best spam game.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at July 28, 2011 05:15 PM (IshqP)
Posted by: Dave C at July 28, 2011 05:15 PM (idSAM)
"There's something I learned from sales. Once you make your offer, you stop talking."
Thank you, Congr. Scott. Our GOP needs primer lessons in Negotiation 000001
He sounded pretty good.
Now my boyfriend, Rand, is on Hannity. HE is the one they need at the table with Obama.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 05:16 PM (piMMO)
I don't see why Boehner's plan hanging out there is preferable to Cut Cap and Balance.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 05:16 PM (uhAkr)
I will reiterate something I said earlier and that is that in the end, the Tea Party members will be made out to be the evil guys by both sides.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 28, 2011 05:16 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:18 PM (TMB3S)
To be fair, he has a tough task made tougher courtesy McConnell's stunt from last week which undermined CCB. McConnell started this domino. And whipping is clearly tough. But the thing that pissed me off was Boehner going public about telling those still with issues with his shi!!y plan to "get their asses in line." Who does he think he is? He owes his position and any recognition at all as a player to the Tea Party caucus and the elder conservatives holding their own.
Boehner and the leadership (and the Bill Kristol - WSJ punditocracy) are making this a personal affront to them as opposed to a legitimate beef with policy and national stability. In that regard, he has failed.
By moral and ethical standards, that is true. Again, though, when you look at how our political process through the framework of history, what Boehner said is incredibly mild. The Dems still dole-out punishments for voting against the leadership and they brand people as traitors. Tom DeLay was much the same when he was majority whip. I'm sure it was even nastier in the olden days. So all this bluster is really nothing new in D.C. and Boehner's attempts at winning-over his members are actually mild from a purely political standpoint. It's pathetic, really.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:18 PM (o2lIv)
Hypothetical situation 2: Boehner's plan passes, Obama signs it. Credit is downgraded anyway. We continue to spend a shit-ton of money, the MFM blames extremist GOP Tea Party members.
Same. Fucking. Thing.
Sign me up for #1
Posted by: mugiwara at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (KI/Ch)
Why from now? Why not from the CCB?
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (LD21B)
I'll tell you, we win by positioning ourselves to win in 2012 by capturing independents.
Agree w/ all your posts on this thread. The biggest residual worry I have is for the R's to be successful at framing the damned argument for the public, despite the friggin' msm. However the cards are going to fall over this, if we aren't able to reach the average, sound-byte, independent, low-info voter, it's all gonna be pretty useless. With the media being so completely in the tank, it's a big hill to overcome.
Posted by: Lady in Black at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (EIlEQ)
Posted by: Kevin McCarthy at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (IhrXZ)
How can you read this post and not realize that the fuckos in Washington are fucking you blind? Seriously, check your ass right now. That thick, vein-y thing coming out the back and running off into the distance is coming from Washington, and it is fucking you right now.
Posted by: Honey Badger at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (H0dXA)
It baffles me when people suggest that more job security and blind support from us are what is needed in Washington DC.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:20 PM (ECjvn)
Cowboy up.
Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 07:50 PM (OhYCU)
Why the whining about the whining over a plan that will never become law?
Cowboy up buddy.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:21 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at July 28, 2011 05:21 PM (A23u6)
Boehner 2.0 isn't going to pass as is in the Senate.
It's going to be a deal of some sort. Let's see what happens to that committee and that 2nd tranche in the final deal. That's the fight worth having (though whatever they wind up bringing to the floor after the deal is cut will pass).
Obama and Reid don't want that second vote. I bet Boehner throws that over for something else. We'll see.
BTW-I'm ok with passing Boehner. I just wanted to see more than $22b in FY-12.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:22 PM (plesI)
Posted by: JBS at July 28, 2011 09:14 PM (8J/cL)
But we only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government (actually, 1/2 of 1/4th - the Bearauacracy is the 4th branch). At least that is what everyone says.
Look - they won't even get 20billion in 'cuts' and this is the most leverage they will EVER have because doing NOTHING means hundreds of billions in FORCED cuts.
They managed to 'cut' a couple hundred million during the last 'budget' fight. JEF hasn't had a budget passed in 2 years and has done just fine destroying the budget. What makes you think he gives a fuck about any budget the house passes. After all, it has to get through the senate, just like any bill they might present RIGHT NOW.
Posted by: blindside at July 28, 2011 05:22 PM (X1Y8q)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 05:22 PM (UOM48)
Ryan on the House floor
"I know let's cover the moon in yoghurt!"
Aha! He's plagiarizing George Will! and good on 'em for doing it!
Video: "We assume weÂ’re going to be fighting this war for 10 more years, with over 100,000 troops in Afghanistan and oh, gosh, wait, weÂ’re going to withdraw our troops in 2014. $1 trillion in savings. IÂ’ve got a better idea. LetÂ’s pass a bill to cover the moon with yogurt that will cost $5 trillion today. and then letÂ’s pass a bill the next day to cancel that bill. We could save $5 trillion. Wait, IÂ’ve got a better idea. Our debt is $14 trillion. LetÂ’s come up with a new plan to spend $14 trillion, then rescind it the next day and letÂ’s save $14 trillion. This stuff is fiscal fantasy. You canÂ’t make this stuff up, Mr. Speaker."
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:22 PM (o2lIv)
I'll tell you, we win by positioning ourselves to win in 2012 by capturing independents."
Because as soon as "we" capture independents in 2012 and grab some more power in government, there will be great incentive to still not do a goddamn thing so we don't scare off independents in 2014!!!
Jesus fucking Christ. Even if Obama loses in 2012, you know what the fuck he got done? Obamacare. That shit will be with us forever. Obama at least got what the fuck he wanted.
Posted by: Honey Badger at July 28, 2011 05:23 PM (H0dXA)
Ah. So, instead of slowly turning the ship of state--which is 500 times bigger than Titanic--we scuttle it.
"Bitch didn't turn on a dime, so I sank her."
Terrific.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:24 PM (uQA8F)
Because those cuts will probably never happen. Why the hell do you take it as gospel that those cuts will happen?
If the Republicans cannot force any meaningful cuts from the Dems NOW, how will they later on?
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:24 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: mpfs at July 28, 2011 05:25 PM (3TjSM)
Where the fuck did you learn to fight a war? This is simply the codification of cowardice, a systemic elimination of risk. 'Run away if you aren't sure you can win!'
That's pathetic.
Posted by: dawnfire at July 28, 2011 05:25 PM (bIeax)
Posted by: Krazy Kat at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (A23u6)
Jesus fucking Christ. Even if Obama loses in 2012, you know what the fuck he got done? Obamacare. That shit will be with us forever. Obama at least got what the fuck he wanted.
Posted by: Honey Badger at July 28, 2011 09:23 PM (H0dXA)
Yeah, the Hopey Changey 52%ers have screwed us in ways we can't even imagine yet.
My husband is worried sick about his business.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: JBS
Discretionary is only 20% of the budget. You can kill all of the departments and agencies (excluding Defense, Vet Affairs, Justice) and you still have a deficit of $794 billion.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (DEcmU)
That's because the Democrats are smart enough to know how to hold together and play the long game. We could learn something from that.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (IhrXZ)
Holy crap Open Blogger. I stand for reduced spending and no raising of the debt ceiling. It's complicated for me. I am just a Moron. I have heard bits and pieces of the above but until now nobody has dumped it all out there and pulled the curtain away from the fake wizard. (God I hate that analogy, but it works here.) Anyway, I don't respect him anymore. So you convinced at least one. Of course I will still support him/GOP as I look into this. It is a matter of Bad vs. Worse at this point.
Maybe I would be more informed but the last 4 months I have been engaging in more entertaining activities. LIKE TRYING TO GET A F***ING JOB!!!
(The good news as I said early this week is I finally got a job. Head out south on Saturday and start Monday.)
Related: Heard the home opener of two NFL teams is Dallas vs. Denver.
Posted by: PugBoo at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (20jXV)
The ship is not turning at all. If the ship was turning we wouldn't be arguing about this. This. is. not. working.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:26 PM (ECjvn)
Terrific.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 09:24 PM (uQA8F)
Heh.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:27 PM (plesI)
http://tinyurl.com/37tshh
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:27 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 28, 2011 05:28 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:28 PM (plesI)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:28 PM (TMB3S)
It's great to draw lines, say "ENOUGH!" and "This far and no farther!" if it works, but so far the Tea Party holdouts aren't forcing the Democrats to cave.
What Truman wants is total victory. I just don't see that happening while the Democrats control the Senate and the White House.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 08:22 PM (uQA8F)
There's also no indication that capitulating will get the Dems to do what we want.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:28 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: Doom at July 28, 2011 05:28 PM (AZGON)
"Regardless of the plan's success/failure, the economy is boned, and we will get the blame. So we should hold out for our principles, since it makes no difference."
I submit that there's a HUGE difference between the inevitability of the Dems blaming us, and the question of whether independents and conservative Democrats will believe them.
The Dems' PR option is locked in: "Blame the Republicans". So we're not playing to change that. What we're trying to figure out is what the PR effects of the Boehner plan's passage/failure is going to be on likely swing voters. In this case, I think the argument has been cogently made for playing the long game and passing the bill.
Can anyone who opposes the Boehner plan tell me what advantage its failure has with with independent voters?
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 05:29 PM (Y5I9o)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 05:29 PM (mf8Ua)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 05:29 PM (kUaEF)
And I thought that was embarrassment.
Crikey
Posted by: ontherocks at July 28, 2011 05:29 PM (HBqDo)
We are all RINOs now.
Wonder if she reached up and asked Bill Maher for his opinion.
Lots of people buy football jerseys the day of the Super Bowl too.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:30 PM (ECjvn)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:31 PM (o2lIv)
Drawing a hard, conservative line in the sand over the debt ceiling will accomplish absolutely nothing. The Democrats and the media will demonize the Republicans and Obama's reelection chances will be bolstered as will the election efforts of Democrats running for Congress.
No matter what the Republicans will propose, it will be shot down. Thus, the goal is to make the Democrats own this "crisis" and keep the Republicans' chances in 2012 alive. We aren't going to accomplish anything of substance until we have the presidency and both houses of Congress. Pure ideology will sabotage these efforts.
The dream scenario is that the Boehner bill somehow passes the Senate. Obama then has to either sign it and appear weak, or veto it and take complete ownership of any potential repercussions.
Those who say that the situation is meaningless are correct - we'll likely lose our triple-a credit rating regardless of what happens because we aren't taking steps to begin paying down the debt - but that doesn't mean that we should dig our own graves. Politics is a game, and it must be played. If Republicans continue to push through bills that are either killed in the Senate or vetoed by Obama, they then have the opportunity to say, "Hey, we proposed a wealth of ways to increase the debt ceiling, but the Democrats were unwilling to compromise."
The goal here is to pin the blame on the Democrats. It has never once been about actually addressing the debt crisis. Anyone who thought so is naive, and anyone who thinks the Republicans should give up the PR battle to appease the TRU-cons have little understanding of the political game.
The freshmen Tea Party crowd in Congress will soon learn that the GOP establishment is the way it is out of necessity. Less principled victory is almost always preferable to principled defeat.
Posted by: Pre at July 28, 2011 05:31 PM (cz3BP)
Ann Coulter?
Thomas Sowell?
Grover Norquist?
Buncha RINOs.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:31 PM (IhrXZ)
Posted by: Count de Monet at July 28, 2011 05:31 PM (4q5tP)
Ah. So, instead of slowly turning the ship of state--which is 500 times bigger than Titanic--we scuttle it.
There is no ship. It has broken up and is half submerged already. It's far too late because artificially low interest rates have created the mother of all debt bubbles, both public and private. It's going to burst. We will see hyperinflation. The deed is fucking done, my friend. This is just a waiting game to see how much bigger the bubble can get before our entire economy collapses. There's nothing that Republicans are going to do about this because they don't want to. They want to stay on the gravy train as long as possible, even if the Democrats are driving the gravy train. The Republican leadership is A-OK with their 30 pieces of silver.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 05:32 PM (ufd0+)
That's not true at all. The main reason we're in the mess we're in because the public voted it in over a period of decades. The public is now beginning to see that we've screwed ourselves.
It's starting. It's going to take us years to retrain our citizenry. That retraining has begun, and the GOP is taking the first small steps to address the issue. The problem is that if the Republicans do too much too quickly, the electorate will turn on them in a flash.
This is reality.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:32 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:32 PM (AWzOz)
#387 - Pure GENIUS. Paul Ryan just explained in simple terms and and entertaining way what goes on in Washington.
Honey Badger in #389 nails it. It will always be 'dont fuck it up'. When the Republicans have controlled all 3 branches of government in the last 80 years what have we gotten: some welfare cuts that went away, and the TSA, medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, TARP, 2 wars, - massive expansion of Government.
When the Dems get control what do we get - New Deal, Social Securit, Medicare/Medicaid, Great Society, Obamacare. They role back tax cuts that we manage to pass and they tax us more.
But of course, we don't want to scare of independents. If we don't unify the government under Republican RULE (yes RULE) in 2012, then we won't have a chance to expand entitlements or screw around with the healthcare system.
Posted by: blindside at July 28, 2011 05:33 PM (X1Y8q)
New niche market coming to an economically depressed neighborhood near you: Mrs. Paul's Dog Food Sticks and Mrs. Paul's Cat Food Sticks. Takes away the stigma of eating it right out of the can.
Posted by: Lady in Black at July 28, 2011 05:33 PM (EIlEQ)
Posted by: George Orwell at July 28, 2011 05:33 PM (AZGON)
Really? I have had it with these sum bitches! They are arguing over what amounts to 2/3 rd of our annual budget deficit and calling it the end of the world. WTF? Somebody get me a Gov'ment check.
Posted by: Bent in Tx at July 28, 2011 05:34 PM (MIflg)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:34 PM (TMB3S)
So, instead of slowly turning the ship of state--which is 500 times bigger than Titanic--we scuttle it.
The ship of state cannot turn. We are locked into a spending spiral that cannot be sustained and cannot be shifted. Please turn your dictionary to pave 587 for the definition of "inexorable."
Don't you see that? Our ENTIRE tax revenue is taken up TODAY by Medicare, Medicaid, SS, and Debt Service.
ALL. OF. IT.
That is called "unsustainable."
We cannot move ANY of those numbers, especially without political will, which has not been on display for 150 years.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 05:35 PM (UaxA0)
"The country's fucked either way because there is no plan with real cuts, which is the only thing that can save us. So why bother playing politics over sticking to principles?"
I submit that if the country's fucked either way, then sticking to you principles now isn't going to do squat when we're in the position of Greece with the whole country in disarray. If they aren't listening to you now, they surely won't be listening to you then.
I humbly suggest that there's a chance that armageddon will not break loose between now and November, and so we should still be concerned about playing the long game so as to win and ultimately get what we want.
In a nutshell, if you're so convinced that we're so royally fucked regardless of what we do, then why does it make a difference to you to let those of us who think there's a chance to get through to try to make that happen. We all want the same thing, no?
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 05:35 PM (Y5I9o)
Posted by: The Snowman on AudioBook at July 28, 2011 05:35 PM (mHQqy)
Posted by: George Orwell at July 28, 2011 05:36 PM (AZGON)
Well, the Republicans have to get into a position to destroy ObamaCare in the first place. Once they are, it'll be moment of truth on that.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:36 PM (IhrXZ)
Posted by: Captain RINO at July 28, 2011 05:37 PM (SQP5L)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:37 PM (D6IZ4)
>>Thomas Sowell?
>>Grover Norquist?
>>Buncha RINOs.
Don't forget Alan West, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, etc.. They were only good conservatives yesterday.
The American Conservative Union (ACU) is also now on-board.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:37 PM (o2lIv)
Actually, it's kind of precious that you guys think that you can actually accomplish something, even with "Republican" government.
We will continue to descend into either anarchy or tyranny, unless and until those with means have had enough. No sign of that on the horizon any time soon.
Posted by: imp at July 28, 2011 05:37 PM (UaxA0)
Posted by: George Orwell at July 28, 2011 05:39 PM (AZGON)
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:39 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: Minuteman at July 28, 2011 05:39 PM (hbAPu)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:39 PM (AWzOz)
Then why worry about it? If we're doomed, and there's nothing anyone can do to prevent it, no amount of screaming will make any difference.
Let's face it with dignity, the way Harrison Ford and Robert Shaw did in Force 10 from Navarone, when they set the bomb to explode in the dam and then took a calm little stroll because they knew they wouldn't survive.
(Even though they did survive.)
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:40 PM (uQA8F)
* Ear marks removed (thank goodness!)
* BBA being tweaked, probably for Mike Pence
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:40 PM (o2lIv)
If you keep that past 10 P.M. we're going to have to charge you for another day.
Posted by: Non-Sequitur Rental Service at July 28, 2011 05:41 PM (IhrXZ)
It will be tinkered and modified and managed. It's not going anywhere near repeal, not in 2013, not ever.
Posted by: George Orwell at July 28, 2011 09:39 PM (AZGON)
That's why I want to punch Romney every time he utters "I will issue waivers to all states" Don't say that asshole, say that the first day in office you want a bill on your desk for the repeal of it that you can sign.
Posted by: buzzion at July 28, 2011 05:41 PM (oVQFe)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 28, 2011 09:28 PM (jx2j9)
If our representatives in Washington appear not to be taking anything about this with an seriousness whatsoever then the American people think it won't be so bad. Besides Santelli was on Hannity and he didn't think it would be so bad.
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 05:41 PM (k1rwm)
This^^^^A thousand times this^^^^. I've been saying that over and over, money is power, every cent the government takes from you is power that's being transferred from you to government. And whenever a plan has all it's real effect in the out years you know it's bullshit and the pols who wrote it know it's bullshit.
Posted by: booger at July 28, 2011 08:02 PM (9RFH1)
booger, my good man, you've done it again. Good show!
Posted by: RushBabe at July 28, 2011 05:41 PM (Ew27I)
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:42 PM (D6IZ4)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:42 PM (AWzOz)
This is reality.
Can you call the electric company for me and tell them that?
I'm sure they'll agree to wait a few years before they cut me off if you put it all pretty like that.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:43 PM (ECjvn)
We cannot move ANY of those numbers, especially without political will, which has not been on display for 150 years.
I'm really confused: If we're screwed no matter what, why are you angry at Boehner? How is he supposed to solve a problem that you and others say is insoluble?
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:44 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 09:42 PM (AWzOz)
i'm saying the 95-00 GOP was better then the 03-07 GOP
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:44 PM (D6IZ4)
And they hold even fewer cards now. So, thanks for making my point.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:44 PM (IhrXZ)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:44 PM (AWzOz)
I'm sure they'll agree to wait a few years before they cut me off if you put it all pretty like that.
No clue what this means. Sorry.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:45 PM (uQA8F)
In other words, you blame Bush.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 05:45 PM (plesI)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 09:44 PM (IhrXZ)
Clinton being a weak-kneed blue dog helped in the 90s, I do wonder though if Reagan had that 95-00 strong GOP how much better things could have been...
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:45 PM (D6IZ4)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:46 PM (AWzOz)
Then why worry about it? If we're doomed, and there's nothing anyone can do to prevent it, no amount of screaming will make any difference.
Correct. Which is why there's no point in pushing for this bill and no point in electing more Republicans. It's going to burn. Let it burn now and maybe there will be something left over after. Or keep propping up the criminal enterprise. Whatever. Just don't expect me to waste any time on a fruitless task.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 05:46 PM (ufd0+)
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 09:45 PM (plesI)
no I'm just saying the 95-00 GOP was better then the later GOP in the 03-07 era. the 03-07 GOP though was infintely better then Pelosi's 07-11 Dem House
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Formerly YRM) at July 28, 2011 05:46 PM (D6IZ4)
No it won't. You will tell us it's not the right time. Wouldn't want to lose an election by scaring moderates.
Posted by: sifty at July 28, 2011 05:46 PM (ECjvn)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 05:48 PM (mf8Ua)
BTW-I'm ok with passing Boehner. I just wanted to see more than $22b in FY-12.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 09:22 PM (plesI)
$22 billion is a shitload of money. It's the entire budget of a couple of federal agencies. It's close to the entire budget of New Jersey. What is vomit-inducing is that it is barely a rounding error in this Leviathan budget.
Posted by: rockmom at July 28, 2011 05:48 PM (lSyyU)
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 09:45 PM (uQA8F)
Apparently there's trouble back at the ranch. But fuck it, I'm rich.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:49 PM (IhrXZ)
I've got tequila and sleeping pills, who's got the razor blades?
Meh, tequila gives me a headache.
Posted by: RushBabe at July 28, 2011 05:50 PM (Ew27I)
Okay. I'll play the game anyway, meanwhile, just for shits and giggles.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 05:50 PM (IhrXZ)
They did 2003-2007. How'd that work out for everyone? (NCLB, Medicare D, etc.)
The make-up of the House is more conservative now than it was then. That was also when individuals like Mike Pence had less influence.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:50 PM (o2lIv)
Having been born in a Third World country, I can tell you that you probably wouldn't really like it if your call to "let it burn now" were actually fulfilled.
Posted by: Llarry at July 28, 2011 05:51 PM (uQA8F)
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:55 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 05:55 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 05:55 PM (mf8Ua)
Ok, I've heard the kids bitch about social security seniors for the last time...
The average 'buy-in' with social security is approximately $300,000 over the average working man's lifetime. What you'll get back, per month, per year, isn't enough to live on. It's money the government took out of your pay check at the point of a gun...and promised to pay back later. There is no contract between you and the government to get that repayment of that $300,000 loan.
I'm not even geting any interest on that loan. Plus, I gotta pay taxes on it! The CorpGov got a sweet deal at the end of that gun, didn't they? They took my money at the front end, denying me the use of it, and gave it to themselves and their cronies. At the back end, they tax me on it, taking more of my money to give to themselves and their cronies. Then, they pay me back in inflated fiat currency. 1.3% inflation or more per year... Now, they're teelin' me that there is no money in that little fund they promised to set up, for my own convenience, of course.
...and now, we older folks catch hell from our kids and grandkids over our having been repaid - our own money - in massively inflated currency? By a government that took our money - at the point of a gun - and pissed it all away? Now, the kids are bitching at us because they're gettin' screwed? Welcome to the real world, kiddo. Quit whinin' and grow up.
Psst! Hey, you snot-nosed little teat-suckin' goofball. Over here! I'm debt free. How much do you owe the bank for all that crap you think you need? Really? How're those student loan payments treatin' ya? You really think you'll be out of debt by the time you're old enough to get social security? Is that why you're bitchin' about not getting social security? You don't have enough money left over to plan for your own future and that's my fault? Fuck you, you weak-kneed, pansy-assed, pussy-whipped, spoiled little crybaby.
When I get that 3 large back, in taxable-deflated fiat currency, then you can cut me off. You declare bankruptcy, give up the wide screen you got with that piece of plastic, the big house you can't afford, the car you can't afford, and start livin' within your means and pay off those credit cards. (Hint: If you don't have the cash, you can't afford it.) Until then? STFU. The rest of you little crybabies? Get out of your momma's garage and basements and get a real life.
What? Oh... You want instant gratification? That's for little kids and mental patients. Adults have to plan and sacrifice today so that tomorrow will be better. Until then, gimme back my 3 large and shut the fuck up.
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at July 28, 2011 05:55 PM (E7Z1r)
I think Flake is referring to the money to cover the Pell Grant gap, though the bill also terminated certain aspects of student loans. As no one knows who wrote the bill (outside of Boehner's staffers), not sure who stuck that in there. But it's on one of the last few pages. I'm guessing they considering that a trade.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:56 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 05:56 PM (AWzOz)
Having been born in a Third World country, I can tell you that you probably wouldn't really like it if your call to "let it burn now" were actually fulfilled.
No shit. There's probably going to be violent revolution. But there's no way to undo what has been going on for generations. By maintaining, or even lowering, the debt limit we can at least refrain from doing more damage. But, as I said, the Republicans want to raise the debt limit. And they want to raise it because they want to keep spending too.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 05:57 PM (ufd0+)
Oh, you're special aren't ya? As if the government isn't going to be taking MY money at the point of a gun.
You, sir, are a piece of work.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 05:58 PM (LD21B)
That was because of the whole spending authority/outlays/etc. debate. Then there was the problem about the checks being sent. Since the cuts are specified from items agreed-to in the Biden Commission, that shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 05:58 PM (o2lIv)
It will be tinkered and modified and managed. It's not going anywhere near repeal, not in 2013, not ever.
Posted by: George Orwell at July 28, 2011 09:39 PM (AZGON)
This is 100% correct. To top it off, Obamacare will have deleterious effects on the economy and the healthcare and insurance industries.
And then, the next Obama will come along to 'fix it'.
It's the same story over and over. Government passes a law or regulation that causes problems, blames those problems on the industry being regulated, then passes more laws and regulations to fix the industry, which further screws it up. This continues until the industry is taken over. Student Loans, anyone?
Posted by: blindside at July 28, 2011 05:59 PM (X1Y8q)
so there is at least one of your generation that wasn't deaf dumb and blind and didn't use their house like a piggy bank and didn't lie about their income and avoid taxes.
well congratulations to you....the rest of them....not so much
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:00 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 06:00 PM (AWzOz)
WTF is going on there?
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 06:00 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 09:56 PM (AWzOz)
I promise I'll just put the head in.
Posted by: The GOP at July 28, 2011 06:00 PM (X1Y8q)
I honestly do not think the last Congress had as much conservative members or influence as this one. Even the House leadership members (outside of the top 3) are more conservative than the ones during that period, and their voting records prove that. So do the records of a number of other members of Congress.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:01 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: Commissioner Gordon at July 28, 2011 06:01 PM (L00d6)
Posted by: The GOP at July 28, 2011 06:02 PM (X1Y8q)
rumor has it that the capital police were called to deal with the journalists?
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:02 PM (k1rwm)
Um...its gone...we spent it on....ummm...stuff. Thanks!
PS - got anymore? ask your kids.
Posted by: African Junk Washing Researchers at July 28, 2011 06:02 PM (mf8Ua)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:02 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:04 PM (k1rwm)
I laughed, but you're still an asshole. Unless, of course, by "means" you do not mean those who have succeeded in life and in business, in which case, I proactively retract my "asshole" remark.
Posted by: Clueless at July 28, 2011 06:04 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:05 PM (o2lIv)
I'll wait right here.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 10:02 PM (TMB3S)
There. Are. No. Cuts.
Now now, not ever. Just a reduction in the size of increase.
Posted by: mugiwara at July 28, 2011 06:05 PM (KI/Ch)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 06:06 PM (kUaEF)
H/T The Hill LiveBlog
Posted by: ronno at July 28, 2011 06:06 PM (nQR0p)
I'd argue the RSC has also slowly been changing a number of things.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:06 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 06:07 PM (kUaEF)
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at July 28, 2011 06:08 PM (IhrXZ)
Actually, they are largely even the same people. Mitch McConnell and John Boehner were there for all of it.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 06:08 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: progressoverpeace
From the Wednesday version of the bill:
10 TITLE V—PELL GRANT AND STUDENT LOAN PROGRAM
12 CHANGES
13 SEC. 501. FEDERAL PELL GRANTS.
14 Section 401(b)(7)(A)(iv) of the Higher Education Act
15 of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a(b)(7)(A)(iv)) is amended—
16 (1) in subclause (II), by striking
17 ‘‘$3,183,000,000’’ and inserting ‘‘$12,183,000,000’’;
18 and
19 (2) in subclause (III), by striking ‘‘$0’’ and in20
serting ‘‘$8,000,000,000’’.
Suck it up, peasant. Your tears of outrage but amuse the The Mighty Boehner.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 28, 2011 06:08 PM (EeYDk)
Posted by: JBS at July 28, 2011 06:08 PM (8J/cL)
I'll wait right here.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 10:02 PM (TMB3S)
It's too bad that plan isn't gonna pass, isn't it?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 06:09 PM (uhAkr)
What's the hill then?
Posted by: The Hammer at July 28, 2011 06:10 PM (msJBL)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 06:10 PM (kUaEF)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:10 PM (TMB3S)
The average 'buy-in' with social security is approximately $300,000 over the average working man's lifetime. What you'll get back, per month, per year, isn't enough to live on. It's money the government took out of your pay check at the point of a gun...and promised to pay back later. There is no contract between you and the government to get that repayment of that $300,000 loan.
Get a clue. You didn't "loan" the government money to be paid back later. You paid an itemized tax that went to pay for then-current recipients. The payments made to you are paid by current workers. That you used to pay slightly more in SS taxes than was necessary to fund then-current SS recipients doesn't change that.
Social Security is nothing like a normal retirement plan in which you invest money each month and draw from the earnings and principle at a later date. SS is just another welfare program, only with an itemized tax.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 28, 2011 06:10 PM (SY2Kh)
And that right there is why the Anti-Truman brigade is wrong. There is no win to be found.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 06:11 PM (mf8Ua)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:12 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 06:12 PM (kUaEF)
Some Republicans have proposed it...and were promptly laughed out of the room.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:13 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 10:10 PM (TMB3S)
Why, precisely, are Reid and Obama going to bow before the awesome might of the Boehner plan?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 28, 2011 06:13 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: CoolCzech at July 28, 2011 06:13 PM (kUaEF)
Posted by: JBS at July 28, 2011 06:14 PM (8J/cL)
Posted by: Chango Butt at July 28, 2011 06:14 PM (VSWPU)
"If we don't get what we want NOW, we will never get what we want. Why do we think this? Because other people in past have lied to us."
That's psychologically a completely understandable position. But it's not necessarily reasonable.
They would argue that it is because politicians are politicians, so they can all be expected to cover their asses and try to pull the wool over our eyes once more, even though it's another group of people in charge.
Ok, but then aren't the Tea Party hold-outs also politicians? Oh wait, they're different, no? They're not sell-outs, you would say. Why? Because they agree with you. Isn't that the only basis for your decision, that everyone who disagrees with you is really out to fuck you over except for people who agree with you? You fucking paranoid fucks; you sound like the KosKidz.
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 06:14 PM (Y5I9o)
We're going to have to keep checking to see what they did with the BBA and Pell Grants. Jeff Flake seemed to think the Pell Grants were gone.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:14 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 06:16 PM (mfWu+)
This way in 2012, there will not be any excuses or doubts it has their fingerprints on it.
Because the Independents I talk to want the Boehner plan passed, albeit unscathed and unedited by the Senate. But if it gets killed by the Tea Party in the House, they are going to blame Republicans. That's eminently bad because up until now they blamed Barky.
Oh yeah and in negotiation you compromise.
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk at July 28, 2011 06:16 PM (fLiRs)
So the hell what? They can mock the Tea Party all they want but that doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:17 PM (o2lIv)
If I wanted drama queens to decide policy, I'd vote Democrat. Chill out.
It seems that the point of this post is to set up a juicy "I told you so!" post next year. As long you advocate the perfect, no one else can match your purity. Because no one else is as awesome as those who demand perfection...even when they are in no position to make demands.
Chill out and don't fuck it up for the folks keeping their cool and their eyes on the prize.
Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2011 06:18 PM (9G+G5)
Posted by: DocJ at July 28, 2011 09:42 PM (AWzOz)
I'm still around, bitches!
Posted by: The Status Quo at July 28, 2011 06:18 PM (FIDMq)
The fact that there are a number of people in this thread who seem to be actively in FAVOR of the idea of the Disaster Scenario. Like they're rooting for an economic apocalypse, thinking that it will somehow transmute into an automatic "win by default" (in the literal sense of that term, I suppose).
You know it doesn't work that way, right?
Posted by: Jeff B. at July 28, 2011 06:19 PM (hIWe1)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:19 PM (TMB3S)
#529 - You couldn't be more wrong. Cuts made IN THE FUTURE are PAPER cuts only because ONE Congress can't bind another - there is no way to guarantee that a congress 5 years from now will follow you plan and enact those cuts. Further the budgets in the federal government don't work that way - it is setup to GROW automatically EVERY SINGLE YEAR. EVEN IF YOU DO NOTHING. The only cuts that are REAL are cuts made in any current bill that is passed the results in X spending less than X spent the previous year.
If I told you it was OK to buy a million dollar home NOW, on a 40K/year salary because you'll be making 500,000 in 10 years, would you go ahead and buy that home? It sure sounds like it.
Posted by: The GOP at July 28, 2011 06:20 PM (X1Y8q)
So the hell what? They can mock the Tea Party all they want but that doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 10:17 PM (o2lIv)
But its on TV! It must be true!
Posted by: curiously stupid at July 28, 2011 06:21 PM (oVQFe)
Posted by: JBS at July 28, 2011 06:21 PM (8J/cL)
Not necessarily. We could break up quietly like Czecheslovakia. It's possible. Or disintegrate nonviolently like the USSR with some core nations emerging from that.
That's a possibility. But it's still not a very pleasant scenario. After the breakup, the mafia took everything over. There may be some parts of the country that will still function decently. But they'll be small pockets of sanity and will probably be quickly overwhelmed by the locusts.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 06:21 PM (ufd0+)
Because the Independents I talk to want the Boehner plan passed, albeit unscathed and unedited by the Senate. But if it gets killed by the Tea Party in the House, they are going to blame Republicans. That's eminently bad because up until now they blamed Barky.
Oh yeah and in negotiation you compromise.
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk at July 28, 2011 10:16 PM (fLiRs)
LOL, and if it dies in the Senate they'll blame.... the Republicans. Thanks for playing.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 06:21 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: cp4three2 at July 28, 2011 06:22 PM (XRwwl)
On the other hand, if the House can't get it together, they Dems have strong empirical justification for their inevitable talking point already prepared by the media that the "stubborn, infantile Tea Party" blocked the vote.
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 06:23 PM (Y5I9o)
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 06:23 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: dogfish at July 28, 2011 06:24 PM (N2yhW)
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 06:24 PM (Y5I9o)
>>>The only way the GOP loses in 2012 is if we default and Obama plays victim, which is the only thing heÂ’s good at. This is insanity, think big picture.
You don't understand -- look at the people in this thread talking happily about the joys of the coming apocalypse, and how great it will be to "get it over with now." They can't hear you anymore. They can't even understand what you're saying: mere logic gets waved away as "RINO talk" from "people who are just part of the problem."
Posted by: Jeff B. at July 28, 2011 06:25 PM (hIWe1)
Fuck you Jeremiad, it's about the Republicans caving in to the Dems, every single fucking time. So get your superior head out of your ass.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 06:25 PM (LD21B)
"Social Security is nothing like a normal retirement plan in which you invest money each month and draw from the earnings and principle at a later date. SS is just another welfare program, only with an itemized tax."
dissent in part - SS is not a normal retirement plan because SS is not a retirement plan. It is supplemental income that is supposed to supplement a normal retirement plan. This is why my dad has made me contribute to 401(k)s and Roth IRAs since I was 16 - because SS isn't there to help me maintain the lifestyle I've hopefully obtained at the time I've retired.
Then again, if my lifestyle is AOSHQ then SS will do just fine - unless val-u-rite futures go the way of pork bellies and frozen concentrate orange juice. then i'll just have to wait for the Duke bros. to roll up in a Bentley loaded with whiskey (which is fine by me, except I'm not Eddie Murphy so the liklihood of this happening is on par with Social Security being around after i've paid 300K into the the "trust")(long parentheses I know, but I shall not apologize).
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 06:26 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 06:27 PM (Y5I9o)
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 28, 2011 06:27 PM (ye+Aj)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:28 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Radar at July 28, 2011 06:28 PM (8xYyJ)
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 10:27 PM (Y5I9o)
It's called, we had leverage, but McConnell and Boner decided they didn't want it.
Posted by: KG at July 28, 2011 06:29 PM (LD21B)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:29 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:29 PM (o2lIv)
Now as an intellectual matter, if you can keep up, you need to pass a plan and it ain't re-passing CCB because that was already voted down in the Senate. The current weeper of the House can't get it to a vote and Democrats would rather cut off their left nut or tit then pass it? Got that so far banjo boy?
Yeah and the age old process is the House passes it and the Senate can amend it. Yes, I know archaic. But you see what comes back, Still following? Where the House members can, here's the tough part reject it. Wow. imagine that?
Maybe if you start thinking for yourself next time you can keep up?
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk at July 28, 2011 06:29 PM (fLiRs)
Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at July 28, 2011 06:29 PM (Y5I9o)
How does he roll out something like this without knowing if he had the votes or not?
He's going to have to get them tomorrow some how. In the end, no one really will remember this but it's a fuck up.
Posted by: DrewM. at July 28, 2011 06:31 PM (plesI)
I bet the markets are going to be fun tomorrow.
Of course. Because they're phony as hell. There's not a single dime in them that's attached to real-world economic reality. They're fucking built on econometric fraud.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 06:32 PM (ufd0+)
It's just been postponed until Rules finishes with the changes. They have to get this right this time.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:32 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:33 PM (o2lIv)
Really douche? Who stopped it magical unicorns? Oh wait I know- establishment Republicans. No the case cracker- Democrats.
Yeah pressure those guys you "bought and sold" because you didn't elect them to think for themselves and get the best deal possible. You are no better than the shithead Democrats, fuckin losers.
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk at July 28, 2011 06:34 PM (fLiRs)
so they'll say "we didn't hear from anyone"
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:35 PM (k1rwm)
How does he roll out something like this without knowing if he had the votes or not?
He's going to have to get them tomorrow some how. In the end, no one really will remember this but it's a fuck up.
He and McCarthy assumed this was a slam dunk. I hope he's making all the changes necessary and that the members are satisfied with those, because otherwise this exercise is pointless.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:35 PM (o2lIv)
Of course, this will only work until Obamacare provides a hip replacement in every stove, and a walker in every garage. At which point devaluation in these currencies will drive down the overall demand in pay for view of geriatric nerps.
good night and good luck with arguing amongst yourselves about a problem that none of us can solve - unless we're part of the 535.
i'm going to go stroke some Viaka now.
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 06:35 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: Mahon at July 28, 2011 06:36 PM (SATip)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at July 28, 2011 06:37 PM (vbEjv)
Posted by: President Chet Roosevelt at July 28, 2011 06:40 PM (r5svY)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at July 28, 2011 06:40 PM (vbEjv)
You are no better than the shithead Democrats, fuckin losers.
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk at July 28, 2011 10:34 PM (fLiRs)
We'll let that slide because you're emotional. And drunk.
You're still invited to the 2013 GOP presidential inaugural.
Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2011 06:40 PM (9G+G5)
Posted by: progressoverpeace at July 28, 2011 09:59 PM (G/MYk)
When the GOP is not stepping on its own dick, punting golden opportunities and bidding against itself, it is picking fights with its base. I believe a third party run in 12 is all but certain.
Posted by: some dope at July 28, 2011 06:41 PM (+kznc)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:41 PM (TMB3S)
...because otherwise this exercise is pointless.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 10:35 PM (o2lIv)
It's pointless anyway. Putting a cherry on top of a shit bill, just so that it can be shot down in the Senate. Great plan. It gives away ALL of the bartering position with or without the cherry.
Posted by: dogfish at July 28, 2011 06:41 PM (N2yhW)
tomorrow is vacation. no matter what they are going, even if it means just walking away....
(heard this in a rumor)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:42 PM (k1rwm)
Sure, there were some mistakes, but the TPC gave you and your establishment, go-along to get alongs, the ability to exist. Without us, you would be negotiating for an extra case of pinot and a box of knock-off cubans to drown your conscience in as you sign onto whatever the demos fed you.
Posted by: The Hammer at July 28, 2011 06:42 PM (msJBL)
Posted by: William Eaton at July 28, 2011 06:43 PM (rwioF)
Posted by: Rex Harrison's Hat at July 28, 2011 06:44 PM (5fEiO)
Then watch the demo-traitors table it. Either way, we win.
I hate the Boner bill, but since everyone thinks its inevitable, we might as well. We can do something drastic after we win in '12
That would be smart. Don't expect RePUKES to do anything smart.
Posted by: Win the Future! derrrr at July 28, 2011 06:44 PM (eXQfZ)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:44 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 06:44 PM (OX4OZ)
Posted by: The Hammer at July 28, 2011 06:45 PM (msJBL)
Sadly, I agree with you. I doubt they could even filibuster Reid's plan because history will be calling the Maine twins and Brown is weak. McLame? Hah, he suspended his presidential campaign, anyone think he will try to block this? Grahamnesty? Murkowski? Yeah right. That's six right there, only one more needed to break the filibuster.
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 28, 2011 06:46 PM (ye+Aj)
Can't we all just get along?
Jeez, who needs the commiecrats when we are happily fraggin our own over this? I am pissed at the RINOs and the spineless establishment GOPers too, but they are not really the enemy, Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the MSM are.
Try to remember that, folks.
Posted by: Log Cabin at July 28, 2011 06:47 PM (5FZGO)
I mean, the idea that this "was the best deal we could get" is old an busted. It wasn't passing.
So if you are actually concerned about getting a deal done before August 2nd, you need to go see Harry Reid and start negotiating, otherwise, you aren't getting a deal.
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 06:48 PM (OX4OZ)
Posted by: Mr. Angry Drunk Boehner Staffer at July 28, 2011 10:34 PM (fLiRs)
Jeff B sockpuppet?
Posted by: some dope at July 28, 2011 06:48 PM (+kznc)
Posted by: phxjay at July 28, 2011 06:49 PM (mmUEq)
And an update, they will vote on this tommorow. I mean, it's a clown show at this point.
Pass it only to have Harry Reid not pass it and then what?
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 06:49 PM (OX4OZ)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:49 PM (TMB3S)
I think passing the legislation and showing that we actually have another plan is better than letting Reid put down markers wherever he wants them. Reid gets the upper-hand if he's able to start this next round with an incredibly weakened Boehner and empowered McConnell. The House's reputation looks worse tonight as it it.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:50 PM (o2lIv)
Ask for the fucking moon, CCB or nothing, that majority of America wants.
Take it or leave it, Reid and Barry.
Posted by: ronno at July 28, 2011 06:50 PM (nQR0p)
Gowdy (R-SC) says conservative dissenters "absolutely being listened to."
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:50 PM (o2lIv)
He's definitely not a wartime consigliere.
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 28, 2011 06:51 PM (ye+Aj)
Literally every single thing you have posted in this thread so far has been an ignorant yawp of angry chest-thumping stupidity, but you somehow manage to top yourself each time out. Yes, asshole -- all financial markets are frauds, the Republican Party is merely a cleverly disguised conspiracy against your interests, and let's just burn down the fucking country anyway because hey who cares, if we have to take a couple of years to gain the Presidency and the Senate and slowly turn this ship around then it's not worth it anyway and we should just send it all up in flames.
(P.S. Before someone asks me why I'm 'making it personal', note that this asshole brought me gratuitously into it quite some time ago.)
Posted by: Jeff B. at July 28, 2011 06:52 PM (hIWe1)
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 06:52 PM (OX4OZ)
No, I do all my flame-warring under my own name.
His point is well-taken, if slightly incoherently expressed, though.
Posted by: Jeff B. at July 28, 2011 06:55 PM (hIWe1)
Yea, I just don't get the point of passing a bill that they know isn't passing the Senate.Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 10:52 PM (OX4OZ)
The point is, it gets you a seat at the table. There would be a House Plan and a Senate Plan, and we would have cards in the game.
Now, you're spectators. Nice, play.
Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2011 06:55 PM (9G+G5)
The point is, it gets you a seat at the table. There would be a House Plan and a Senate Plan, and we would have cards in the game.
Now, you're spectators. Nice, play.
------------
Please explain how you think a Harry Reid only plan is getting through the House? it isn't. The only way is if the Boehner cuts some sort of compromise and presents it as a Boehner/Reid bill.
As a matter of fact, that's the only way it's getting through the Senate. This changes none of that. There is 0, listen closely, ZERO chance a Reid/Pelosi bill makes it through both houses. They HAVE to have Boehner in on the deal.
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 06:58 PM (OX4OZ)
He's playin don't throw me in the briar patch with this limp dick Boehner bill.
he can turn that piece of junk into an all out socialist progression easy as McCain is sleezy.
Send him CCB again and again right up to and after Armageddon.
Or he could attach his "plan" to a piece of legislation passed by the House and start from there. McConnell-Reid would put the ball is back in weakened Boehner's court, in which he will be in a position where will have to beg his members to compromise with Dems to get a bill.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 06:58 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2011 06:59 PM (TMB3S)
heard rand paul and a bunch of other senators on hannity today. They could see the hand writing on the wall calling it a done deal. So I don't really think boehner would have had a seat at the table either way. All he gets if he plays nice with others his his name on the shiny new bill "reid/boehner" that's it.
Has anyone asked regular people what they think cause I think you'd be shocked to hear what they have to say.
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 06:59 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: William Eaton at July 28, 2011 07:00 PM (rwioF)
(P.S. Before someone asks me why I'm 'making it personal', note that this asshole brought me gratuitously into it quite some time ago.)
Glad to hear from you. Now go douse a cactus in kerosene, set it on fire, and shove it up your ass.
Posted by: MuppetFart at July 28, 2011 07:00 PM (ufd0+)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 28, 2011 07:00 PM (cbyrC)
The House Democratic Caucus cutting a deal with some moderate and liberal members in the Republican Conference.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 07:01 PM (o2lIv)
...showing that we actually have another plan is better than letting Reid put down markers wherever he wants them. Reid gets the upper-hand if he's able to start this next round with an incredibly weakened Boehner and empowered McConnell. The House's reputation looks worse tonight as it it.
What other plan? We didn't even start with a plan. Remember Boehner 1.0? Fail. Boehner 2.0. Fail. Boehner 3.0 Magic Win? I doubt it. The House's reputation was shot when they started with such a pathetic plan.
Posted by: dogfish at July 28, 2011 07:02 PM (N2yhW)
The House Democratic Caucus cutting a deal with some moderate and liberal members in the Republican Conference.
---------
There's a better chance the Senate passes CCB.
I mean, I guess that can happen, but I just don't see it.
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 07:03 PM (OX4OZ)
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 07:04 PM (OX4OZ)
The framework was/is good and largely follows what was outlined as important in CCB. It's the execution that was/is bad. If they had actually just fixed it in the first place and allowed amendments, it would have been a better bill.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 07:06 PM (o2lIv)
Boehner and company threw away their best chance to make real change with the continuing resolution surrender in April? March?
They should have broken up the federal spending into segments and told Reid, "here's your SS funding for the year"
Reid blocks money for seniors!
"Now here's your military funding for the year"
Reid blocks military pay!
They could have refused to fund Obamacare, planned parenthood, acorn, NPR, EPA. And Obama and Reid wouldn't have been able to do shit about it. No market crashes, no bond downgrading.
They totally blew it. Completely. And they got nothing.
Posted by: Log Cabin at July 28, 2011 07:09 PM (5FZGO)
I mean, I guess that can happen, but I just don't see it.
I'd love to see it-- but how? DeMint should have forced the issue with McConnell and Reid when he had the chance and Boehner could have yelled about Reid tabling the bill. But I'm not quite sure it would have changed the outcome, particularly with the lack of pressure on vulnerable senators.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 07:10 PM (o2lIv)
Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 07:18 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Ronster at July 28, 2011 07:19 PM (9h8nr)
Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 10:58 PM (OX4OZ)
You don't understand. The Reid Plan would only pass the Senate. The House would pass ITS plan. And both would go to a conference committee.
Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2011 07:23 PM (9G+G5)
<em>Taking both chambers and the white house in next year's election buys us absolutely nothing.</em>
Wha? Have you all lost your minds? No, you haven't. I refuse to believe it.
Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2011 07:28 PM (9G+G5)
however, before i click every link she's posted i would just say that the anti-Boehner plan crowd needs to grow the fuck up. Shit happens, and when it does it usually doesn't take a roll of paper towels to clean up.
Big problems - like King Kong shitting in your cheerios - are not easily remedied and things look the worst right before they get better. So buck the fuck up and deal with the fact that Boehner is digging a toe grip into a big, ugly, pile of shit. We have to climb this thing, and while we may not like getting our noses in it, we have to, because guess what, we haven't yet created a shovel large enough, or efficient enough, to get the turd known as the U.S. Debt, off our front porch in one fell swoop. Its gonna take some work, its gonna stink, and we're probably going to wish we didn't get hammered the night befor and wake up next an ewok. but guess what, shit happens, and when it does we can either pussyfoot around and talk about how perfect things would be if only we did x, y, and z, or we can get results by doing X, part of Y, and putting Z off to a later date while we un-fuck ourselves from the current predicament.
Boehner's plan is not a Faustian bargain, but it isn't perfect either. Regardless its a fuck ton better than convincing your Representative to stick his thumb up his ass and waiting for the great white buffalo to return to set things straight.
Posted by: BRW at July 28, 2011 07:28 PM (mfWu+)
Posted by: boballab at July 28, 2011 07:30 PM (Tk16+)
This is the hill to die on and I don't care about the friggin' "but, we will get blamed". HELLO?
We've been getting blamed for shit for the last 40 years. Why would this be any different?
Posted by: GW McLintock at July 28, 2011 07:44 PM (ovOsl)
"House Rules met at 11 p.m. and voted party-line 8 to 4 for GOP leaders to revise and vote on the Budget Control Act anytime through Aug. 2"
/Susan Crabtree
"Maximum flexibility"
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 08:10 PM (o2lIv)
Absolutely effing right.
You don't give up the Alamo just because Santa Anna said he wouldn't shoot you in the back if you just walked away.
Posted by: Sgt. York at July 28, 2011 08:16 PM (avDul)
Posted by: Adjoran at July 28, 2011 08:21 PM (VfmLu)
I've seen more rational arguments from a 5th grader ...
Waaaaaa !!!! I want the budget balanced now ..."
Thread loser.
(stupidest thing I've read all day.)
Posted by: Sgt. York at July 28, 2011 08:21 PM (avDul)
Posted by: norrin radd at July 28, 2011 08:26 PM (l80OO)
We are boned. The Dems control the Senate, the Presidency, and the Judiciary. That's 5/6 of the Federal government. NOTHING will pass that meets our desires or the needs of the nation. Even worse, the "unbiased" MSM will report whatever happens as a victory of brave progressive forces over Darkness (that's us).
Conservatives and Republicans made a fatal error in fighting a battle we can't win. We would have been much better off quietly allowing Obama and Co. to have their way on the debt ceiling and save the soundbites of their profligacy for 2012. Only when we control most of the Federal Government would we have a ghost of a chance to prevail.
Posted by: JeffP at July 28, 2011 08:59 PM (k2lRA)
Posted by: Anonymoose at July 28, 2011 10:13 PM (ZgvjV)
Posted by: wayne at July 29, 2011 07:17 AM (DKO73)
Posted by: wayne at July 29, 2011 11:17 AM (DKO73)
Taxed Enough Already
Posted by: curious at July 29, 2011 08:43 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: GHD Straighteners at July 30, 2011 11:05 PM (aLmvz)
Posted by: GHD Straighteners at July 30, 2011 11:09 PM (aLmvz)
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Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 28, 2011 03:41 PM (mf8Ua)