1 Moving the window back towards sanity.  Maybe.  If we're lucky and the stars are right.

Seriously, just burn it all and start over.  Better odds.

2 More window dressing. Brought to you by the clowns that have spent our children into poverty.

3 Make up yer mind, I'm getting whiplash here...

4 It disappeared! Kind of like the fiscal health of the country!

5
"The framework would cut and cap discretionary spending immediately..."

I love this! Discretionary spending sickens me because it is all waste and pork.

6

--Caps To Control Future Spending. The framework imposes spending caps that would establish clear limits on future spending and serve as a barrier against government expansion while the economy grows. Failure to remain below these caps will trigger automatic across-the-board cuts (otherwise known as sequestration).

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Remember me?

7 Bbbbut the Boehner/House plan is dead on arrival!

The Senate will never pass it.

Barky will veto it.

I am beginning to think we need to pray for Boehner and the House and Senate Repubs, even though this is just a small start.

8

WWBD?

What Will BluffyTantrums Do?

9 Do one hike through August 2012. One year. Make Obie veto that.

10 Sniff. Sniff. SNNNNNNNNNNNNNNFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. It's just so beautiful. [sobs]

11 Pork. It's what for dinner.

12 _{If, big if, Boehner can pull this off and it's acceptable to the majority of the House GOP caucus, he just might end up rolling Obama, Reid and the Gang of 6 in the Senate. Not a bad days work.}

So what if gas and food keeps getting more expensive, there are still no jobs, and nothing changes for the better for average people in America.

It's really all about that sweet feeling of accomplishment a few people in Congress will get out of it before they hit that next cocktail party.

13 The more I watch this unfold the more I'm convinced that they're all a bunch of imbeciles in tiger costumes.

14 Spending and taxation caps need to occur before cuts, otherwise any cuts will be temporary at best, illusions at worst. Fix the mechanism which allows the Federal Government to spend too much, and then start rolling back existing spending levels.

It's like cutting the junk food out of your diet first, to keep from gaining any more weight, then exercising your fat ass off until fit.

15 I love this! Discretionary spending sickens me because it is all waste and pork.

Not really.  "Discreationary" spending includes things such as the US military, ICE (border control), the FBI, CIA, etc.

Yes, there's a lot of waste and pork there too, but also included are agencies and functions most Americans would consider essential.

16 Better hurry and sign whatever they put in front of you, O'DoucheTool, or disaster looms!

17
sexy imbeciles

18 OT: Lacey, this is getting buried in the Documentaries thread. Truck Monkey remembered the Detroit principal's name, and I found this to his horrible e-mail:


http://tinyurl.com/y8paxw7

I'd forgotten how bad it was.

19
alright, then.
make it non-defense discretionary spending (even though there is billions in waste at the Pentagon)

20 If a Debt Ceiling doesn't cap future spending, how will anything else?

21 Otis!! Thank you, Retread. That was driving me cr-a-zy!! That link is a keeper.

22 It's annoying, they act like cutting anything is a death blow to the world. I say cut everything, and if a department bitches, hire a CEO type who will cut the budgets. Take it back to pre-bailout levels.

23

get this to the floor of the House ASAP and voted on ...  pass it to the Senate by Wed and then we'll see if we can get 6 Senate Dems to become adults ...

then its on to Obama's desk to sign or veto ...

24 ...but in the end, no taxes.

Let's wait and see what it looks like at signing time.

25

--Cuts That Exceed The Debt Hike. The framework would cut and cap discretionary spending immediately, saving $1.2 trillion over 10 years (subject to CBO confirmation), and raise the debt ceiling by less - up to $1 trillion.

Only in Washington would $1.2 trillion over 10 years be considered immediate cuts.

Boner doesn't deserve an attaboy for this. It's weak tea.

26 Worse than his writing was Otis' behavior in front of the board. Of course he claimed illness, just like Weiner did.

27 Just limiting the size of the debt ceiling increase would be all the win I think we can hope for from these lame ass Republicans.  To also get about 100 billion in cuts would be sweet sweet gravy.  (1 trillion in cuts over 10 years = 100 billion in actual cuts maybe, but probably not)

28 So, they'll cut a deal somewhere in the middle but in the end, no taxes. Bluff called and folded.

Um, "no taxes" isn't much of a victory condition if there aren't year over year cuts to the federal budget.

29

--Cuts That Exceed The Debt Hike.

i get so friggin sick of this shit.  When the hell did the GOP get the idea that anyone wanted this shit?  Cuts (in the far future) that need to merely "exceed" the debt limit hike, which happens and is spent NOW ... No thanks.  This is just too stupid for words and I am fuming that the GOP is trying to run this crap through us ... again.

Cuts in the future would have to be at something like 5 to 8 times the debt amount raised, just to start talking about things from this asinine angle.

But ... this is what we get with a bunch of stupid, cowardly shitheads from the GOP, who couldn't figure out that their number one job was - KILL OBAMACARE and stem the entitlement tsunami.   Nothing else really matters too much and these future cuts the GOP are all hot and bothered about are almost all bullshit.

30  Never going  to pass? how about passing it in Jan. 2012 with a REPUBLICAN HOUSE,
 SENATE and PRESIDENT!!!

31 yeah, I mean $1.2 trillion over ten years? How about cut $1trillion RIGHT NOW? There's that article about how some agencies have billions just laying around, they can't spend it all as it is.

32 But ... this is what we get with a bunch of stupid, cowardly shitheads from the GOP, who couldn't figure out that their number one job was - KILL OBAMACARE and stem the entitlement tsunami.   Nothing else really matters too much and these future cuts the GOP are all hot and bothered about are almost all bullshit.

And by what force of magic do you think that's even a remote possibility with Obama and the Dems holding the White House and Senate?

33 yeah, I mean $1.2 trillion over ten years? How about cut $1trillion RIGHT NOW? There's that article about how some agencies have billions just laying around, they can't spend it all as it is.

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 25, 2011 03:49 PM (QxSug)

It's becoming apparent that the only winning move for the US in this game is if the debt limit isn't raised, at all.  Force the cuts, now.  Because everything else these people talk about is total shit.

34 13 The more I watch this unfold the more I'm convinced that they're all a bunch of imbeciles in tiger costumes.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at July 25, 2011 03:40 PM (pLTLS)

 

THREAD WINNER

35 Seriously. I don't know why we are so worked up.  Let Obama sign something and be responsible for it.

2012 is the answer.

36 O Bozo 'tempted to do things on his own' Ok dude I call ya! heh heh http://tinyurl.com/4okxr6

37 The budget projections I have seen, based upon very optimistic economic conditions, say we will have trillion+ deficits for at least ten years.  So, call it ten trillion in new deficit spending.

"Cutting" maybe 100 billion a years compared to expected deficits?  It is not even a start. 

Am I missing something?

38 More from the WSK live blog, this is interesting:

"Sen. Pat Toomey (R., Pa.) wants Congress to think about what many lawmakers say is unthinkable: Life after Aug.2 without a deal to raise the federal debt ceiling.

The freshman senator plans to hold a press conference on Tuesday to introduce new legislation aimed at forcing the federal government to prioritize payments to creditors in the event that thereÂ’s no deal to raise the federal debt limit."

link:

http://tinyurl.com/42htorz
.

39 Never going  to pass? how about passing it in Jan. 2012 with a REPUBLICAN HOUSE,
 SENATE and PRESIDENT!!!
Posted by: blogforce one

Um, 2013.

40 It's annoying, they act like cutting anything is a death blow to the world. Exactly. How on earth did Primitive Man survive a few short years ago, many trillions of dollars ago?

41
Never going  to pass? how about passing it in Jan. 2012 with a REPUBLICAN HOUSE,
 SENATE and PRESIDENT!!!
Posted by: blogforce one at July 25, 2011 03:49 PM

I think you mean 2013, but if we do have a lineup like that in 2013 we won't need this stop-gap bill. We can write a better plan and cut b.s. agencies like the EPA and Departments of Energy and Ed.

42 The '1T  this has been fun lets do it again next year' ceiling hike is a nice starter. GOP has to make a move toward fiscal sanity now, and 240B budget cut is about half of what we need need cut from the next budget. So I'm going to go back and say no on this one. 1T debt increase needs to cost at least 500B in the next budget, or more like this in sale.

1 trillion or enough debt for only 1 year needs to be balanced with at least 500B in cuts over the next two years.

43
funny how no one ever brings up Pelosi and her PAYGO

Democrats ran largely on PAYGO in 2006. After they won, they made believe they never said "Paygo."

44 This is better than the revised Reid plan but it STILL uses the BS 10 years down the road crap. That is just another word for "unspecified spending cuts" we pinky swear to make.

As a minimum he should call for cuts equal to the debt ceiling increase, cuts to be made THIS year.

45 cap discretionary spending immediately, saving $1.2 trillion over 10 years (subject to CBO confirmation)

If it's saving a whopping 120bn/yr over 10 years, that's still nothing.  And it won't.  It'll back-load those cuts onto another congress which will conveniently forget about them.

Nope.  Non-starter.  Give me half-a-trillion this year, and then spread the rest out over the next 5 and we can talk.  Otherwise, no debt-ceiling increase.

I'm tired of vague promises of spending cuts later in return for more spending now.  No, I'm done.  I don't believe Congress anymore when they say they won't do it again.

What is with some Republicans and their battered wife syndrome? (Figuratively speaking, of course).

46 To also get about 100 billion in cuts would be sweet sweet gravy.

Except that's not how you get $1 trillion over 10 years. In truth, you maybe take $50 billion this year, continue it for ten years, and add another quarter trillion in the last two years. Maybe smooth out the distribution so it looks nice on a graph. And all these cuts are from projected spending which always assumes that a)GDP will grow fast over 10 years than it ever has in two consecutive years and b)government spending will grow faster.

Whatever bullshit Boehner tries to shovel with numbers this small, we can be pretty much assured that A)federal spending will increase in the 2012 budget compared to this year, and B)the federal deficit will grow substantially. Will we see a $2 trillion dollar deficit next year? I'm beginning to think so.

47 These cuts remind me of an obese person who is told that they have gangrene in both legs.

They agree to have the legs amputated to save their life.

They then get on TV and proclaim that they lost 100lbs in an exciting new diet discovery!!! Aren't you so proud of them!


Then they immediately drive to the Hometown Buffet and begin eating like a pig again.

48

What a load of garbage.

This year's deficit: 1700 billion

This year's proposed deficit reduction: 100 billion

This years' deficit under the GOP plan: 1600 billion

 

Yeah, fuck of a big win, you stupid shit tards

49
re: Toomey above

Prioritize spending? Why that's ludicrous!

50 "Cutting" maybe 100 billion a years compared to expected deficits?  It is not even a start.

It's like paying half the minimum payment on your credit card. 

51 Have I told you how upset I am?

52 Boehner and Cantor up at 4pm on CNBC. Atleast they're waiting for the markets to close.

53

How can one not give a huge thumbs up to the Obama economic team's considerable forecasting skills?  Months ago this sage group sat down and plotted out the ups and downs of the economy and nailed it, right wingers!  August 2nd it was, August 2nd it is. 

Call the bluff, Speaker. 

54
I'm not really getting all the moronic frustration. Sure, it'd be best to abolish Obamacare and force $4 tril in cuts NOW, but we've only got the House. I wonder if Boehner himself thinks of this as the best we're going to do until 2013, at which point God willing we can settle down to some real cutting.

55 And by what force of magic do you think that's even a remote possibility with Obama and the Dems holding the White House and Senate?
Posted by: Hollowpoint




At worst for the Dems, they're going to have a minority in the next Senate that can comfortably filibuster anything the Republicans send up, so we might as well start looking for other attack strategies now -- The Dark Ars Magica or whatever.

That is unless we're going to wait to govern until that great getting morn' when we have 70 seats in the senior chamber.

56 And by what force of magic do you think that's even a remote possibility with Obama and the Dems holding the White House and Senate?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2011 03:51 PM (SY2Kh)

if they wanted the debt limit raised, they'd pass and sign a repeal of ObamaCare.  If the GOP really wanted to rein in entitlements, they'd attack the most offensive legislation of all - ObamaCare - and deal with that, since even cutting the rest of the entitlements to ZERO would be useless while ObamaCare is still around to supercharge MediCAID and suck up any savings from other cuts.

If the Indonesian and the Dems preferred to do nothing and leave the debt limit in place, to save their national socialization of medicine, then let them.  Keeping the debt limit is pretty much what America needs, anyway.

But, the point is that the GOP should have been trying this stuff.  But, they never tried.  The GOP's first instinct is to nail conservatives from behind.

57 And how do they plan to ensure that a future congress - controlled by, say, democrats, institute those cuts.

This does not help. We're going to make cuts over 10 years, while allowing us to ring up as much new debt in 2 or less.

Buy gold, silver, food preservers/canners/dehydraters, solar cells, and bullets and guns my friends.

58 Thanks to whomever posted that WSJ live blog link in the sidebar yesterday. It's been very interesting.

59 Eric Erickson is saying any deal that has another vote before the election is a loser because it gives the JEF an automatic win just before the election as he gets to play grown-up in the room one more time and get another increase for nothing right before the election.
I think he is right.
I mean, which would you rather bet on: the JEF's poll numbers being higher or lower than today?
With the MBM in full Historic Reelection gear, with a nitrous boost of 18 months of (BS) recovery stories at their back, only a sucker would think they are going to be lower.

60 These cuts remind me of an obese person who is told that they have gangrene in both legs.

Hey, I dated her too in college.

61 I'm completely in debt and overdrawn on all accounts. So if you'll give me another credit card with $100,000, I promise that in 2020, I won't spend $100,000 on shoes.  Deal? 

62 You mean we have to keep this house of cards up by ourselves?! Bull. Shit.

63 Hurray!

We had some meetings and DID something!
Now lets get drunk and toy with some people's lives.

64 Am I missing something?

Some people are under the mistaken impression that passing legislation that the President signs is some kind of accomplishment in and of itself.

65 The House GOP should keep passing bills with debt ceiling raises (marginally changing it ever so slightly each time) and keep forcing the Senate Dems to vote no on it or have the President threaten a veto.  The next time the President does a stump speech asking "what the Republicans will finally say yes to?", they can kindly and honestly tell him to go fuck himself.

66 Thought I'd pop in and remind everyone that Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

Your regular programming will resume immediately.

67 Only in Washington would $1.2 trillion over 10 years be considered immediate cuts.

By then, we'll be in debt $25 trillion, won't we?  Why does this $1.2 trillion over 10 freaking years look like a drop in the ocean?  It seems so pointless in terms of saving us from total financial ruin.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

68 Boner's on.

69

Seriously, though:  Check my math?

Dem plan:  spend 1700 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

GOP plan: spend 1600 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

Is this right?

70 OT - how are the little codes next to our handles generated?  I note that mine has changed and assume it has to do with being on a different machine and from a different location ... (diff state, diff internet provider, etc.)

71
Some people are under the mistaken impression that passing legislation that the President signs is some kind of accomplishment in and of itself.
Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 04:02 PM

Sadly, that impression is now quite accurate. Cf. #68.

72 By then, we'll be in debt $25 trillion, won't we?  Why does this $1.2 trillion over 10 freaking years look like a drop in the ocean?  It seems so pointless in terms of saving us from total financial ruin.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted by: Lady in Black at July 25, 2011 04:04 PM (EIlEQ)

I don't think this will even register as a blip in the data that is charting our DOOM.

73 Eric Erickson is saying any deal that has another vote before the election is a loser

For those that are paying attention, too few I know, to watch the debt ceiling be lifted a trillion in 2011 and then for them to be back begging for more just a year later, and right before an election, sounds like a huge potential win for fiscal conservatives.

74 _{Is this right?}

Unless China locks us out of the Philippines, Taiwan, and the South China Sea and we have to go to war with China, Pakistan, and Iran as well as launching strikes against intermediate range ballistic missile sites in Central and South America.

Yup.

75 watch cnbc now

76 Posted by: Methos at July 25, 2011 04:02 PM (sOXQX)

The bar has been set very, very low.

77 On a "default".  Someone edumecate me.  Don't SS and military pay go out (electronically) on the first of the month rather than the second?

78 watch cnbc now

Not if you paid me.
What's being said?

79 Dem plan:  spend 1700 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

GOP plan: spend 1600 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do?

80 Unspecified savings to be determined later over ten years?  That's not cuts, that is trying to blow smoke up my ass again, and it's getting tedious.  Why not go back over the last dozen or so debt commissions and take some cuts and put it down on paper where I can see what the cuts are.   Future phantom cuts never happened before, so why on God's green earth would the dems not pull the football out of the way this time, as the pubs try to kick it ten years down the road?   Go ahead, pubes, we promise we won't lie this time?  Give me a break.

81

I'm hoping the TP repubs take a close look at this before they vote on it.  It sounds a lot like PayGo.  And we know exactly how well that went.  I say wait until after Aug 2, and see where negotiations go from there.  Let Dick put up or shut up on benefits checks. 

Let's at least try to do some of the hard part now, for I fear if we give in in any way, 2012 may be too late. 

82 60 Eric Erickson is saying any deal that has another vote before the election is a loser because it gives the JEF an automatic win just before the election as he gets to play grown-up in the room one more time and get another increase for nothing right before the election.

Erickson's dumber than a box of rocks, as usual.  The last thing Obama wants is for this to come up again during campaign season and he's so panicked he doesn't even care if he says so outright.

83

Bandaid.... on a spurting gushing Arterial Bleed...

Only Beltway Commando's would declare 'Victory' when the battle is only 1/17 over.

84 Wow. There are a parade of Repubs following Boehner and Cantor at the microphone, everyone of them calling for cuts, cuts, and cuts.

85
What's being said?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 04:08 PM

They're all saying "It's not a perfect plan."

86

They've got the House bidding against itself. And Boehner is driving a hard bargain w/ himself.

awesome--_not

87 house republicans plus boner speaking

88 Re: BBA, I think there's politicians who support cutting spending, but are too spineless to actually take a stand on any one issue (kinda like how polls consistently show that people support cutting spending, but don't support specific cuts). With a BBA, they have an excuse for cutting spending that they don't want to admit to cutting.

89 Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do?

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:09 PM (qeaSR)

Use the Power of the Purse not to approve yet another credit card for congress and force some fiscal sanity.  How does that sound?

Remember, there's a very real scenario where we win simply by doing nothing.

90 sickening, oh, we're spending what $3trillion this year and there's no fucking way we can cut more than $100billion? Then fuckit all surrender Iraq and Afgh, leave NATO, and decom all the aircraft carriers because we are just too fucking stupid to have all this might. Every American not blessed with a precious government job has taken a haircut in wages the last 3 years. We've had to make due with, in some case, 50-80% cuts in takehome. Goddamned Dept. of Education or Energy can get by with 50% less, especially if they have a SWAT team to bust people with or if Dept. Interior can investigate intra-state bunny sales. The GOP has so much leeway to bargain with, and for once, even the mushy middle has our back on this debate, despite the best efforts of the palace guard media. Just hold up a spending chart or deficit chart.

91 @71 FTW!

92 They're all saying "It's not a perfect plan."

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:09 PM (qeaSR)

That sounds a lot like Republicanspeak for "Bend over.  Here it comes again."

93 Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do?

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:09 PM (qeaSR)

Simple... understand TWO things...

Senate and Whitehouse do NOT control spending.... those bills start in the House...

AND....

A Government shutdown means THEY CAN"T SPEND MONEY!

94 I'm not really getting all the moronic frustration. Sure, it'd be best to abolish Obamacare and force $4 tril in cuts NOW, but we've only got the House. I wonder if Boehner himself thinks of this as the best we're going to do until 2013, at which point God willing we can settle down to some real cutting.

Posted by: arhooley

The question is what are "we going to do or get here", besides the appearance of a deal?

1.The ratings agencies are not concerned about the bullshit default or debt ceiling. They are interested in debt reduction.

2. any 'cut' that takes place beyond this existing congress is wishful thinking at best.

3. If they cannot give a good reason why the debt ceiling has to be increased, then it shouldn't be done.

 

We're better off with Toomey's notion to deal with our obligations as we can and when we should, and continue to signal that business as usual is over. This would be real hope and change. We need to stick to item #1. The only reason that everyone is is clinging to #3 is that it gives them an excuse to continue on as they have.

95 Dem plan: spend 1700 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10 GOP plan: spend 1600 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10 I remember when negative amortization was a bad thing.

96 CNBC is showing the Republicans in the House talking about their plan. They showed comments from Boehner, Cantor, and three other congressmen. Unfortunately, FNS cut away as the fifth person, a congresswoman, began to speak. They should have continued with her, as CNBC did, because she took it to Reid and the Senate for not even debating CC&B.

97 Jackass alert at Drudge.

98 81 Dem plan:  spend 1700 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

GOP plan: spend 1600 billion more than we have this year and every year for the next 10

Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do?
The do nothing option. What's wrong with that? Do nothing. Let the debt limit do what it is supposed to do. Why must we always do something?

99 Seriously, though:  Check my math?

What rate of growth are they assuming? The original Obama 'plan' that was unanimously voted down in the Senate and the Ryan plan both assumed 5% GDP growth when we are seeing basically 1-2% that seems to be declining.

Short version-your math is right, but too optimistic.

100 I'm thinking I'll have to do this on my own.  I'll show you.

101 Damn, CNBC is actually doing a piece on the August 2nd v August 10th drop dead date.

102 Really, baby, why do you make me so mad?  You know I only [increase spending] when I lose my temper.

103

Remember, there's a very real scenario where we win simply by doing nothing.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 04:10 PM

Well, okay, except for how that would play in the lefty press and could lead to big losses in 2012.

104

Remember, there's a very real scenario where we win simply by doing nothing.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 04:10 PM

Well, okay, except for how that would play in the lefty press and could lead to big losses in 2012.

Posted by: arhooley

 

NOTHING will play well in the lefty press. If you don't believe me, talk to President McCain.

105 1.2 trillion over 10 years, 120 billion per year out of a 5 trillion dollar per year budget?

Well, I am over-fuckin'-whelmed!

106 Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do?

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:09 PM (qeaSR)

Surrender, apparently.

Let's not pretend that if the situation were reversed and we held the WH and Senate and they held the House, we wouldn't be getting pretty much the same deal.

107 so are we engaging in small talk now?

108 Any threats that I'll meltdown if this latest version doesn't pass?  Or is my failure to listen to the talking heads all weekend going to make me a non-player this week?

109 Well, okay, except for how that would play in the lefty press and could lead to big losses in 2012.

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:15 PM (qeaSR)

I no longer freaking care "how [it] would play in the lefty press."  The right thing to do is the right thing to do.  I'm tired of getting a [debt increase] up my [budget] just because the Republicans are too full of [fail] to figure out that the correct thing to do is... nothing.

110 Jackass alert at Drudge.

Christie?

111 My bills are due.
My wages are cut 10%.
My few friends have all said they have no more money to loan me.


Time to apply for some more credit cards.

112

"Let's be honest, I need a dance partner here, and the floor is empty," he said.

What a fucking whiny douche.

God I hate this asshole.

113 Dem Senate, Dem WH. What are we going to do? Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:09 PM (qeaSR) We can at least start our bargaining position from our dream outcome instead of starting one inch away from their dream outcome.

114 Chris Cooooons on MSNBC

115 Senate and Whitehouse do NOT control spending.... those bills start in the House...
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 25, 2011 04:11 PM (NtXW4)

People keep saying that. It's not correct.

Article I, Section 7.
All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

116

The alternative is to have a balanced budget today, by simply not passing a debt limit increase.

Cold turkey.

117

Let's not pretend that if the situation were reversed and we held the WH and Senate and they held the House, we wouldn't be getting pretty much the same deal.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 25, 2011 04:16 PM

That means that even if we get all 3 in 2012 we're still gonna be screwed. Now you're depressing me.

118

A Government shutdown means THEY CAN"T SPEND non-essential MONEY!

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 25, 2011 04:11 PM (NtXW4) 

FIFY. The checks still go out for SS, Medicad, Medicare...

119
1.2 trillion over 10 years, 120 billion per year out of a 5 trillion dollar per year budget?

A 2.4% cut per annum (that dissipates over time) doesn't do anything for you?

120 My bills are due.
My wages are cut 10%.
My few friends have all said they have no more money to loan me.


Time to apply for some more credit cards.

Posted by: sifty

 

But you pinky swear promise that you'll decrease your spending on some items. Over the next ten years. But you don't seem to mention the three leaking, guzzling behemoths that you keep in the garage, the SS and the Medimonsters.

121 Man, those Ivy Leaguers are so smart. Especially them progressive ones. What do they teach at Harvard Law school? Just askin. Sparky is melting away like the bad witch. When do the flying monkeys take off for their think tanks? Between this and news of Football I am starting to become an optimist. Its been a long while, but it feels good.

122

105  Well, okay, except for how that would play in the lefty press and could lead to big losses in 2012.Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:15 PM (qeaSR)

This is the defining trait of the 2011 Republican--fear of criticism in the press. Its  a shame. the country could use an alternative to socialism.

123 I find CNBC's presentation pretty balanced, but since the creation of FBN, their viewership appears to me to have become more left wing, based on the "Squawk on the Street" polls, especially the ones last week about Rupert Murdoch. I've stayed with CNBC, despite thinking Fox Business Channel is pretty good, because I've been watching CNBC during the trading hours since the 1980s, and and the on-air staff is like a bunch of old friends. Besides, Charter cable charges $10/month for the digital tier in which FBC is included, and that's the only channel in that tier in which I'm remotely interested. BTW, anyone see the CNBC program on BMW that aired last week? I have a 1972 BMW 2002 that has been in the family since my dad bought it new, so was very happy that they highlighted one in the BMW museum. It's basically the car that defined the "Sports Sedan", and helped save BMW.

124
Obama is asking for a 13.8% increase in the debt ceiling, btw.

125

I don't even care anymore. I have no faith in Boehner or any of the rest of them. It's all in God's hands now.

1. Water filter? Check.

2. Food stores? Check.

3. Firearms and ammo? Check.

4. Precious metals? Check.

5. Basic survival gear? Working on it.

6. All my money removed from the stock market? Check.

Things are going to get much, much worse. There's nothing you or I can do about it except to prepare as best we can.

126 Chris Cooooons on MSNBC

Posted by: cherry

 

You're kidding. That asshole couldn't keep a county government solvent.

127 "Let's be honest, I need a dance partner here, and the floor is empty," he said.

I'm here. I even brought a costume for you!

128

I would accept this Boner-ific plan if there was an immediate return to the 2008 spending levels with more cuts to come later.

129 Really, baby, why do you make me so mad?  You know I only [increase spending] when I lose my temper.

Yes the US citizens ran into a door and our wallet fell out of our pocket; That right after we dropped several trillion dollars in bonds as we fell down some stairs. We need to be more careful I tell ya.

130 As soon as those checks still go out in August we win this thing.
Run out the clock. As soon as Gramma still gets her check the pressure is off.

Run out the clock on this, please.
Don't accept a shitty deal because of a phony deadline.

It will break Obama like a fuckin glass vase.

131 Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at July 25, 2011 04:24 PM (JxMoP)

I would, too.  But, see, those would be real cuts- which aren't currently on the table.

132 Chris Coooooons has lost his hair worrying over this default.

133 I've stayed with CNBC, despite thinking Fox Business Channel is pretty good, because I've been watching CNBC during the trading hours since the 1980s, and and the on-air staff is like a bunch of old friends.

The only reason I've ever watched Bubblevision was to watch Maria Bartiromo's tits bounce when she walked on the trading floor.

Other than that, you're more likely to get bang for your buck from Home Shopping Network than Mad Money

134 if they wanted the debt limit raised, they'd pass and sign a repeal of ObamaCare.  If the GOP really wanted to rein in entitlements, they'd attack the most offensive legislation of all - ObamaCare - and deal with that, since even cutting the rest of the entitlements to ZERO would be useless while ObamaCare is still around to supercharge MediCAID and suck up any savings from other cuts.

And again, there's zero- and I do mean a 0.0% chance- of that happening with the Dems holding the White House and Senate.

Sure, the GOP can hold out for the impossible and force a shutdown, but they still won't get an Obamacare repeal.  Eventually they'd be forced to cut a deal in response to vast public pressure to do so (and there would be), and quite possibly say goodbye to any chance of taking over the Senate in 2012 as a result.

I'm all for doing what it takes to get the best deal possible, but it's counterproductive to claim anything shy of impossible flights of fantasy as a loss.

135 That means that even if we get all 3 in 2012 we're still gonna be screwed. Now you're depressing me.

Posted by: arhooley at July 25, 2011 04:21 PM (qeaSR) 

If the GOP gets the House and WH, they will say we need the Senate

If the GOP gets the House, WH, and Senate, they will say we need a filibuster proof majority.

If the GOP gets the House, WH, and a Senate with a filibuster proof majority, they will say cutting spending drastically will risk losing those things.

I don't mean to sound cynical, I just have very little faith in our GOP leadership (Boehner, McConnell) and believe most of the Freshmen are being duped by them.  The current GOP leadership is comprised of men who sat idly by for years while spending increased.  It's foolish to believe they suddenly think it's a big problem.

136 134 Chris Coooooons has lost his hair worrying over this default.

Posted by: cherry π at July 25, 2011 04:25 PM (OhYCU)

And JEF's is turing grey.

137 Things are going to get much, much worse. There's nothing you or I can do about it except to prepare as best we can waste our money on worthless "survival" crap in a bid to make ourselves feel like we have some measure of power to do something.

Fixed.

138
Time to apply for some more credit cards.
Posted by: sifty at July 25, 2011 04:19 PM

Once you get them, mind you spend them on overpriced goods at stores owned by Black people and women.

139 I've been watching CNBC during the trading hours since the 1980s,

I miss Mark Haines. Alot.

140 This is a horrible deal. The debt ceiling doesn't need to be raised. <-- period

141 Johnson is on Cavuto now saying do not raise ceiling at all.

142 That means that even if we get all 3 in 2012 we're still gonna be screwed. Now you're depressing me.

That's why many of us are still depressed. If "but we'll be punished at the polls" is an excuse not to do the right thing, or even some non-negligible fraction of the right thing, today, it will wtill be an excuse in January of 2013 when we will have at least two and probably three more trillion dollars of debt on the books and the portion of the federal budget supported by debt will be larger than it is today.

143 The great news is... wait for it... COD is not on TV.

144
Rob Johnson?

145 OT: Netflix will not buy Hulu

146 The great news is... wait for it... COD is not on TV.

Based on this thread?  I'll take what good news I can get.

147 Fox is reporting now that Otrama will pass the revised Reid Bill if the Senate and House will approve it. .

Fox is calling that a "huge victory" for Republicans because Reid dropped his $2T tax increase.

What a bunch of schmucks.

148 BTW, anyone see the CNBC program on BMW that aired last week? I have a 1972 BMW 2002 that has been in the family since my dad bought it new, so was very happy that they highlighted one in the BMW museum. It's basically the car that defined the "Sports Sedan", and helped save BMW. Posted by: Reno_Dave at July 25, 2011 04:22 PM

The Beemers were always fine cars which unfortunately came to be driven almost universally by raging assholes.

Thankfully the raging asshole demographic has migrated to Audi

149 The great news is... wait for it... COD is not on TV.

Posted by: cherry

 

She never raised my taxes and left the county I live in in debt. that asshole did.

150 Posted by: Vic at July 25, 2011 04:30 PM (M9Ie6)

I wonder if they've ever heard the term "Pyrrhic Victory."

151 OT - but the DOOM is getting crunchy...

“Italy surprisingly has the third largest debt market in the world with more than $2.2 trillion in debt. In fact, Italy’s debt market is larger than that of Spain, Greece, Portugal, and Ireland combined.”
(Bianco, 7/11)

“Bank of Ireland Plc will seek to impose losses of as much as 90 percent on 2.6 billion euros ($3.7 billion) of subordinated debt as it offers bondholders an exchange for cash or equity. ‘We were expecting the terms of the offer to be bad, but this is worse than expected’…. (Bloomberg, 5/31)

152 144 This is a horrible deal. The debt ceiling doesn't need to be raised. <-- period   Thank you, Dave C.  That's the answer.  Shut down everything we don't pay for (and we don't pay for anything we have to borrow to get), and see how much better everything is.  Not only would this be painless, it would improve things when the regulatory Gestapo can't put their boot on the neck of businesses.

153

Bush's deficit was about $600 billion in his last year in office (excluding the now paid-back portion of TARP)

Obama has more than doubled it to $1.4 trillion.

....

....

and Boehner's big plan is to cut $100 billion from it?

Why?

Where did all the money go? Why isn't the GOP out there screaming for a rollback to Bush spending levels?

Anyone?

It's a fucking joke not to take it to Obama on this. This kind of spending cannot be justified. And yet we've got "our guys" accepting this as the new normal.

It's a joke. Boehner is a joke. The GOP is a joke.

And I don't give a fuck about any of it anymore. They kick this can down the road again, and I'm out. I promise you that.

 

 

 

154

_{If the GOP gets the House and WH, they will say we need the Senate}

_{If the GOP gets the House, WH, and Senate, they will say we need a filibuster proof majority.}

_{If the GOP gets the House, WH, and a Senate with a filibuster proof majority, they will say cutting spending drastically will risk losing those things.}

Fuckin NAILED IT.

155 Gee Oshama will hold another press conference tonight at 9 pm.

156

I hate the fact that politics enters into this so heavily, but it does. And so, any compromise needs to be crafted so that it does not allow Obama to (1) demagogue this or claim credit for finding a solution; or (2) kick the can down the road and be able to postpone really dealing with the financial mess until after the 2012 election.

It is imperative that he be made to acknowledge that he owns this economy, because he does own it.

I know it's a different situation, but I can't help but think back to when George Bush was dragged kicking and screaming into a tax increase in the early 90's. He was praised by the media  and the Democrats for being bi-partisan and statesmanlike for all of about two minutes. From then on, he was vilified by both unceasingly, and even pilloried by Democrats for breaking a campaign promise. How'd that one work for our side?

When you mix it up with skunks, you're bound to come out with skunk smell attached to you, no matter how hard you work or how sincere you are. Careful, guys. Perception is reality.

157 Thankfully the raging asshole demographic has migrated to Audi

Posted by: kbdabear at July 25, 2011 04:30 PM (so1xa)

So, what is the ¬ raging asshole make?

158 126
Obama is asking for a 13.8% increase in the debt ceiling, btw.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 25, 2011 04:22 PM (sqkOB)

Ah... come on..... thats only like $20,000 for every American Household... I'm sure we can all come up with that somewhere...

159 Methinks too many here believe perfection is possible. Its not. It is sufficient to hand Sparky an undeniable political loss that erodes trust in him from his base. That is sufficient. The debt problem will be solved by a conservative President not a lib or RINO. We all know that. This is phase one of recovery - dumping the Kenyan - and a goodly number of his boot lickers in the Senate. BTW, unmasking JEF as a childish wannabe also hurts that Willard guy. Who wants to chose between a red pill and blue pill because a MA Republican is doing the offering? Two birds, one stone.

160

I would, too.  But, see, those would be real cuts- which aren't currently on the table.

That's why I'd accept it. That budget was what, roughly $400 billion in deficit, which is still really bad but far more tolerable than what we're currently spending. And I don't know what the current tax revenue is, so it's possible that the deficit could be different.

Even better, that was a Democrat budget and I'll bet that Jugears voted for it, so if it was good enough for him three years ago it should be good enough for him now.

161 Maybe if some of you actually cared; and didn't hoard all of your money -- money that you have because of this great country -- we wouldn't have these worries. The typical Frenchman or German is taxed much more than we are in this country, and they are doing fine. But they don't toss their poor onto the street, or throw the indigent out of hospitals to die. And nobody goes hungry, unlike here. Just walk outside of your gated communities and take a look around you! People need the government! It is the only way to save this country!

How dare you!

162 As soon as those checks still go out in August we win this thing.
Run out the clock. As soon as Gramma still gets her check the pressure is off.

Run out the clock on this, please.
Don't accept a shitty deal because of a phony deadline.

It will break Obama like a fuckin glass vase.

Posted by: sifty at July 25, 2011 04:25 PM (ECjvn)

 

This is my take exactly.  Then the only thing that's "owned" is the debt created by the dems.  When that happens, then maybe they'll sit down (preferably without Dick O) and start some half-way realistic negotiations.

Otherwise, 2012 is a long long time from now. 

163 God Almighty, this guy is prepared to veto any deal he doesn't like!!!What will we do???We must have a deal. simply must! Give me a new deal, stat!

164 Fox reporting Boner said don't need cuts 10 years from now, need cuts now.

Damn has Boner grown some balls?

165

161 Gee Oshama will hold another press conference tonight at 9 pm.

I wonder who he'll blame this all on?

166
the defining trait of the 2011 Republican--fear of criticism in the press.

I think it's a rational fear. Although McCain ran a lame campaign, I firmly believe it was the PRESS that tipped the 3% that gave the election to Obama. Those lying liars are powerful.

167 any compromise needs to be crafted so that it does not allow Obama to (1) demagogue this or claim credit for finding a solution; or (2) kick the can down the road and be able to postpone really dealing with the financial mess until after the 2012 election.

Unpossible.  That is the very definition of the compromise Barry is demanding.

168 Posted by: Truman North at July 25, 2011 04:32 PM (K2wpv)

Why is it that National Republicans haven't learned from: New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Minnesota?

Ladies and Gentlemen of Congress: The public is on our side. They've figured out we can't keep spending- it's time to nail the Democrats to the freakin' floor.

And then kick 'em in the nadgers.

169

Ah... come on..... thats only like $20,000 for every American Household... I'm sure we can all come up with that somewhere...

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 25, 2011 04:33 PM (NtXW4)

Do they accept personal checks?

170
"“If my Republican friends believe that increasing our debt by almost $800 billion today and more than $3 trillion over the last five years is the right thing to do, they should be upfront about it. They should explain why they think more debt is good for the economy.

How can the Republican majority in this Congress explain to their constituents that trillions of dollars in new debt is good for our economy? How can they explain that they think itÂ’s fair to force our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren to finance this debt through higher taxes. ThatÂ’s what it will have to be. Why is it right to increase our nationÂ’s dependence on foreign creditors?

They should explain this. Maybe they can convince the public they’re right. I doubt it. Because most Americans know that increasing debt is the last thing we should be doing. After all, I repeat, the Baby Boomers are about to retire. Under the circumstances, any credible economist would tell you we should be reducing debt, not increasing it.Democrats won’t be making argument to supper this legalization, which will weaken our country. .”

-- Harry Reid, 2006

171 Politico, via Drudge:

Steve King on default: Obama could be impeached

Wow, that Steve King guy sure knows what to say to get a ladies attention....and without dressing up in a tiger suit and making unwanted sexual advances.

Obviously, he is not a Democrat.

172

Oh great, Hannity just said Crybaby is having a national teleprompter reading tonight. I guess it would be too much to hope its his 'At 12 pm tomorrow, I am resigning as President....'

We've heard your demonizing the rich for a month now. Tired of 'shared sacrifice.' That sounds a little too much like communal(ist) living to me. Shut up already. Its not working anymore. Your stardom has warn off like Vanilla Ice.

173 Other than that, you're more likely to get bang for your buck from Home Shopping Network than Mad Money I watch Mad Money from time to time, and read a couple of Cramer's books. I've learned a few things from him that have made me a better stock evaluator, investor and trader, and no, it's not "do the opposite of Cramer". I've never bought a stock based on one of his recommendations, but if I did, I would wait for a week after he mentioned the stock, as he tells his viewers and readers, so that I can perform my own due diligence.

174 152:  Really?  Here in Seattle it still is 60% Beemer, 35% Auto Union Bernd Rosenmeyer waanabes without the driving skill (or the humility) and 5% Merc drivers.

175 O'BlahBlah's going to address the nation tonight at 9:00.

Drinking game ideas?

176 Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 25, 2011 04:33 PM (0M3AQ)

As much as I want a scorched earth approach to this debt ceiling -- and I still think that it could work with the correct leadership -- this is shaping up as a victory.

I agree that there will be no real solution until Obama is voted out of office, and a real conservative is voted in. My one question is: Who the hell is that real conservative?

177 Steve King on default: Obama could be impeached

I'm surprised that he didn't suggest that Barry was possessed by evil spirits out of an ancient Indian graveyard.

178

Your stardom has warn off like Vanilla Ice.

 

Hey!  Don't be hatin!

179 How dare you!

Posted by: Lucy'sRabbit (NJProgressive) at July 25, 2011 04:33 PM (LH6ir)

Ewok:

http://tinyurl.com/443yl9f

180 Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 25, 2011 04:33 PM (0M3AQ)

The issue is that we're not being offered any "good" of which "perfect" can be the enemy.  We're being offered bad and worse.  Well, we'd like to change the rules.

It's like in Ender's Game (one of the best novels, ever, IMO) where Ender finds his team faced with two armies who'd had like 10 minutes to get into position against his, and just decided to skip the actual victory conditions and go for the gate.

Okay, well, it's time to go for the gate, and "the enemy's gate is down."

181 I miss Mark Haines. Alot. I miss him too. I found him maddening at times because he seemed kind of liberal on some issues, but he really had a way of cutting through the bull shit with CEOs. And I liked his sense of humor.

182 This is a horrible deal. The debt ceiling doesn't need to be raised. <-- period

It doesn't need to be raised if you can convince the electorate to be cool with our troops not getting paid, the border going undefended, the FBI being shut down, etc for the next few months.  We're borrowing around 43 cents on every dollar; without major entitlement cuts (which also won't happen anytime soon), there's no way to cut federal spending by 43% without a major public backlash against the GOP.

Claiming to be OK with the debt ceiling not being raised might be a decent negotiating tactic, but I for one would not like to go back to 2009-2010 when the Dems control the White House, House and Senate come 2013.

183
Obama/Reid/Pelosi want a $2.5T increase in the debt limit, which is almost as much as Bush required in his first five years.

Reid hated the idea of an $800B hike. But triple that amount and he's all for it.

184 Drinking game ideas?

Obviously Corporate Jets.  He just can't quit them.

185 102 I'm thinking I'll have to do this on my own. I'll show you.

Posted by: Lone Wolf McBluffy at July 25, 2011 04:14 PM (/ZZCn)

37 O Bozo 'tempted to do things on his own' Ok dude I call ya! heh heh http://tinyurl.com/4okxr6

186 the defining trait of the 2011 Republican--fear of criticism in the press.

I think it's a rational fear. Although McCain ran a lame campaign, I firmly believe it was the PRESS that tipped the 3% that gave the election to Obama. Those lying liars are powerful.

Posted by: arhooley

 

It's an irrational fear. As several people have repeatedly said, the leftist press will ignore the good and invent shit if they wish to. Criticism by the MFM is part of the environment. It cannot be controlled, mitigated or reduced. Folow support for the filibuster if you don't believe me.

187 181
O'BlahBlah's going to address the nation tonight at 9:00.
Drinking game ideas?
Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 25, 2011 04:37 PM (UOM4

Eff him. I'm watching The Closer and will take each and every drink according to the dictates of the voices in my head. Better for both my blood pressure and my sanity.

188 Both "deals" are POS.

189

Go for it, conference committee and all. Keep hammering away and stick to cut equaling or exceeding the size of the increase. Furthermore, stick to the idea that Obama will receive this in two part. Extract everything you can.

190 It doesn't need to be raised if you can convince the electorate to be cool with our troops not getting paid, the border going undefended, the FBI being shut down, etc for the next few months

This is complete BS which has already been debunked.  The government makes enough every month to cover debt service, all "mandatory" spending, and our military, justice department, and a whole host of other things. 

If any of those things did not get paid, it would be by willful choice of the Secretary of the Treasury and the President.

191

No one knows what the impact (financially and politically) would be if the August 2nd date comes and goes with no increase. Maybe it goes great..........maybe it goes bad.

 

True. All we can do is load the gun and give it to Sparky. Who they hell knows whether he shoots his foot off or kills Mr. Love. Some things just have to be left to karma. Given what we know, there is a very good chance that he blows his head off trying to smoke it.

192 God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're fucked.

193 Fox is about to hold a Fair and Balanced debate on whether the 14th amendment allows Obama to spend all he wants.

This is how utterly screwed up Fox has become.

194
Obama's fear mongering is going to start to piss off people. I'm glad he's giving another plan speech tonight because people are getting sick of his shit.

195

Hey!  Don't be hatin!

I was originally gonna say Milli Vanilli instead of Vanilla Ice. MV is probably better, since they were fake singers, like Ø is a fake intellectual, wonderful orator.

196 Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 25, 2011 04:39 PM (SY2Kh)

Run away! Run away! The mean Democrats are coming!

Whatever shall we do? Wherever shall we go!

197

I don't care if they offer to cut $500 trillion over the next 10 years.  None of it's going to happen anyway, so what difference does it make what BS made-up number they give us?  Cut a deal for $1 trillion in immediate cuts (and none of this BS "money that would have been spent on Afghanistan" or some shit).  Permanent, immediate cuts from significant programs.  Now.  Then, once that's done, let's do it again next year.  And the next year.  One year at a time. Not some magic number 10 years down the road.  We're so f'ing screwed. 

198 Boehner is not the scorpion, nor is he the frog.  He is Amy Winehouse after she licks the frog.  You don't have to pay your debts after you OD.

199 O'BlahBlah's going to address the nation tonight at 9:00.

Drinking game ideas?

Drink every time JugsEars McFuckstick says:
- corporate jet owners
- shared sacrifice
- revenue enhancements
- let me be clear....
- some people say.....
- the folks on the other side....
- ummmm

But be careful, if Obama speaks for more than 1/2 hour, you may die from alcohol poisoning.

200 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 25, 2011 04:42 PM (8y9MW)

There is no point in arguing with Hollowhead on any of this shit. He has been a "go along to get along" squish for so long he has become the epitome of a concern troll.

The fact is, if we don't fight for this hill today we will die on it tomorrow any damn way.

Who the fk needs any Republicans who will never fight the Dems for anything.

201 Posted by: Proudvastrightwingconspirator at July 25, 2011 04:45 PM (hyRD4)

I'll toss back my whole margarita (fresh lime of course) if he slips and says, "fuck you America! I won!"

202 I have a feeling Dick is going to announce tonight that since congress seems to be at an impasse, he's decided that the 14th Amendment gives him the right to raise the debt ceiling.  Or something very much like that.

203

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 25, 2011 04:37 PM (UOM4

I can't be hungover tomorrow.

204 209 I have a feeling Dick is going to announce tonight that since congress seems to be at an impasse, he's decided that the 14th Amendment gives him the right to raise the debt ceiling.  Or something very much like that.   That has been a fear of mine (despite the denials of his Cabinet members) and I pray that he doesn't.

205 "The Beemers were always fine cars which unfortunately came to be driven almost universally by raging assholes." That started in 1975 with the first of the 3 Series, the 320I. BTW, "Beemers" are BMW motorcycles, while the cars are "Bimmers". Beemers became the nickname for the bikes because one of their competitors was BSA, and those bikes were nicknamed "Beesers", or also, "Beazers". http://www.bimmercenter.com/article_001_name.html I may be a raging asshole, as my daily driver is a 2006 BMW 325i (coupe) with the Sport package. It was my first new car since my 1988 Mazda RX7. Unfortunately, while the classic 2002 is a 4-speed manual, there were no manual transmission, graphite gray 325Ci's available in CA at the end of the 2006 model year, so I settled for the automatic.

206 Drinking game ideas?

Drink every time JugsEars McFuckstick says:
- corporate jet owners
- shared sacrifice
- revenue enhancements
- let me be clear....
- some people say.....
- the folks on the other side....
- ummmm

But be careful, if Obama speaks for more than 1/2 hour, you may die from alcohol poisoning.
Posted by: Proudvastrightwingconspirator at July 25, 2011 04:45 PM

- investments in the future
- there are those who say
- genuine reform
- make no mistake
- winning the future
- those who drove the car into the ditch
- rolling up our sleeves

207

I can't be hungover tomorrow.

Posted by: jewells45 at July 25, 2011 04:49 PM (l/N7H)

I can't either, I have a dental appointment at 0800.

208 209--that would be an awesome development, really. It would spell his end, and maybe even spur an impeachment effort.

209 Hey you squishes and 52%ers.  How does it feel to get Dear Leader's greasy little squirter rammed up your collective rectums.

210 190 Obama/Reid/Pelosi want a $2.5T increase in the debt limit, which is almost as much as Bush required in his first five years.

Reid hated the idea of an $800B hike. But triple that amount and he's all for it.

He doesn't want another vote before the 2012 election. Too bad, Harry. If your party won't cut the amount necessary until certain conditions, then you won't receive anything.

211

Tax Revolt anyone?

 

212 165 Methinks too many here believe perfection is possible. Its not. It is sufficient to hand Sparky an undeniable political loss that erodes trust in him from his base. That is sufficient. The debt problem will be solved by a conservative President not a lib or RINO. We all know that. This is phase one of recovery - dumping the Kenyan - and a goodly number of his boot lickers in the Senate. BTW, unmasking JEF as a childish wannabe also hurts that Willard guy. Who wants to chose between a red pill and blue pill because a MA Republican is doing the offering? Two birds, one stone.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 25, 2011 04:33 PM (0M3AQ)

You mean 'don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good', right?

What if it isn't even 'good'?

213 209 I have a feeling Dick is going to announce tonight that since congress seems to be at an impasse, he's decided that the 14th Amendment gives him the right to raise the debt ceiling. Or something very much like that.

Posted by: Soona at July 25, 2011 04:47 PM (Bbn7l)

Nah... he will declare the debt crises a National Emergency, then use his FEMA powers to rule by Imperial Decree... suspending the Constitution due to the 'emergency'....

214 Fast and Furious.

Gun Walker

Gun Runner.

All this debt theater is sure pushing that stuff down the line, isn't it?

215

Tax Revolt anyone?

 

Posted by: Krazy Kat at July 25, 2011 04:53 PM (A23u6)

 

Are there any blazing torches involved with that?

216 This is complete BS which has already been debunked.  The government makes enough every month to cover debt service, all "mandatory" spending, and our military, justice department, and a whole host of other things.

Wrong- they can cover debt service, SS, Medicare, and essential military contracts, but not much else.  Entitlements simply take up too big a chunk.

217 Jughead is speaking tonight, I guess the on-air meltdown will occur earlier rather than later. Also, thanks #159 for the second FTW. Where is all this extra money going? I almost typed a bannable sentence about the economic malfeasance going on in our government. It blows my mind away. The uptown girls I know who were so big on how deficits in 2006 and 2007 were awful have no moral authority on this stuff now, now that we're at yearly deficits of trillions. CUT IT ALL.

218 I actually don't mind the raising of the debt ceiling by $2.5T as long as we do everything possible to slow the rate at which we approach it. Right now, that $2.5T is supposed to take us to something like Jan, 2013, but what if we can continue to make spending cuts, as well as grow the economy in order to get the increasing revenue from more working taxpayers, and we're able to push that Jan, 2013 date out to Oct, 2013, or Jan, 2014? Get rid of Obama, repeal Obamacare, cut spending and grow the economy, and we can really push that date out.

219

Nah... he will declare the debt crises a National Emergency, then use his FEMA powers to rule by Imperial Decree... suspending the Constitution due to the 'emergency'....

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 25, 2011 04:55 PM (NtXW4)

 

I laughed but.......

220

Baby Boomers?

Fucked.

The median 401(k) balance for this group is $149,400. The study uses a withdrawal rate of 6% to generate annual income of $9,073—a far cry from the $74,545 that would be needed in retirement income to replace 75% of this group’s median household income of $87,700.

Even with Social Security of $35,000, for example, there is still an unfunded gap of $30,472. Some are fortunate enough to have a pension, and half of those who do expect a median $26,500 in pension income a year.

221 BTW folks, that was Gary Johnson on Fox.

CFG now has their white paper done on him.

If he ever gets anywhere in the polls or I get really really bored I will do an eval for him.

222 How is this NOT kicking the can down the road?

223 BSA Motorcycles & Bicycles? Birmingham Small Arms in the UK?

224

Yea, so this rosey outlook here about this plan is odd to me. Most, if not all of these proposed cuts are in the future, which means, they will never happen.

I keep seeing people rejoice with this "well they won't raise taxes" nonsense. We could have just passed a straight debt ceiling hike with no frills and no one would have been asking for tax increases. The whole goal of this debt ceiling fight was to get serious reductions. If we are saying those were never acheivable, why the hell did we start the fight to begin with? I just don't get it.

225 [Mark Haines] really had a way of cutting through the bull shit with CEOs.

Bingo.

And welcome back '80sBaby.

Now get Tami and Chuck Z back.

226 Another point regarding the raising of the debt ceiling: Part of me wanted to give Obama what he originally wanted, a $2.5B increase with no spending cuts or new revenue. The way I figured it, if we gave him what he wanted, and the ratings agencies downgraded the U.S. debt because the trajectory of the debt was out of hand, then we could blame it squarely on him, as we have the failure of the stimulus, which received no Republican support. Think about it: Everything he and the Dems have put into place without Republican support has done nothing to improve the economy. OTOH, if what Boehner has proposed passes, and there are no debt downgrades and things improve, JEF will attempt to take credit, and the press will give it to him. So pushing him and the Dems to do what we want could make him stronger going into the 2012 election.

227

Since we have another Omama budget thread up I'll go off topic with this site Fox is pushing

The Moronettes will love it

228 Someone please inform me that, uh, if we are indeed cutting what we are spending, then what are we borrowing for? I mean if we spend 1.2 T less, than we only need to raise 1.3T not 2.5T, right?

229 Someone please inform me that, uh, if we are indeed cutting what we are spending, then what are we borrowing for? I mean if we spend 1.2 T less, than we only need to raise 1.3T not 2.5T, right?

The cuts they're talking about are over a 10 year period.

230 Reno Dave, I saw that BMW show, it was pretty awesome. I drive a Z4 myself and don't consider myself an asshole, like someone else said we Bimmer owners are.

231 Right, so we're not cutting. Got it. Nothing to see here. Move along.

232 I drive a Z4 myself and don't consider myself an asshole, like someone else said we Bimmer owners are. The Schwalbe -- I don't think he was calling all of us raging assholes, and I was actually joking when I referred to myself as such (maybe I needed some kind of emoticon). But in the 1980s and early 1990, a lot of people bought BMWs purely for the status, and not for the driving experience. When my dad bought his '72 in '72, there were so few BMWs in the SF Bay Area, that few people recognized the brand, let alone the model. I was a sophomore in high school at the time, wanted him to buy a Datsun 240Z, and thought the BMW was one of the ugliest cars I'd ever seen. Two years later, when I was a Senior, he let me drive it, and I understood. BTW, yesterday on the History Channel, they began the new season of the U.S. version of "Top Gear". The show was basically a "goof" where they spent $2K on old cars that could be used in Texas as a replacement for a pickup truck, even filling the cars with manure to be delivered across town. One of the cars was a late-80s 325e, which they said was the ultimate '80s chick car (agreed), but what really made me happy was that one of the other cars was a 1975 Ford Maverick. My college car was a 1970 Mav with a bench seat, 200 cu in straight six, and a "three on the tree" three speed manual with a column mounted shifter. After graduation in 1981, I sold it to a buddy for $500. He drove it for another couple of years until he graduated, the sold it to someone else for $500. It was pretty reliable.

233 I'm sorry, but no. This plan is simply not good enough. I'd rather us default and let the chips fall where they may.

234

No doubt Obama will all threaten us with the "RING" if we do not bow down and submit immediately tonight.

 

I hope his teleprompter dies and we can hear him um, um, um away live.

 

What an ass.

235 Let's review, shall we?

Obama started out saying he wanted a "clean" debt limit increase. He wasn't asking for tax increases. The country, overwhelmingly, was opposed to increasing the debt limit. So, the Repubs say, "OK, we'll give you the increase, but only if there are some spending cuts." Obama says, "Well, if there are cuts, we must have taxes."

Much back and forth ensues.

End of the story: Obama gets his debt limit increase, but there will be some more fake cuts to be specified at a later date which may or may not get enacted, depending on the mood of the Dems.

This is the Repubs idea of a win.

236 Any "cuts" beyond the current year are accounting gimmicks and will never happen.

How about cutting 1/2 all the new regulation writers by transferring them into border guards/  Fire the other 1/2, apply the savings to deficit reduction.

How about permanently laying off 9.2% of all govt staffs and putting another 7% on part-time?  Share the sacrifice.

How about de-funding all of the czars and eliminating the first beyatch's staff?

237 Having Allen West endorse this plan gives it an OK by me.  He is the only one I can fully trust in DC.  And I'm white (for the benefit of NYT, WSJ, HuffPo, Sheila nappy head Jackson, DWS, Tingles Matthews and any other non-relevant association that calls anyone who hates Obama a racist).

238 Again, #158 (not 159) rocks Bush's deficit was about $600 billion in his last year in office (excluding the now paid-back portion of TARP) Obama has more than doubled it to $1.4 trillion. .... .... and Boehner's big plan is to cut $100 billion from it? Why? Where did all the money go? Why isn't the GOP out there screaming for a rollback to Bush spending levels? Indeed, WTF, why is this not apparent to everyone on our side?

239

I remember what happened last time Bonehead said he was giong to cut 100 billion.  We got 232 million.

How much of the budget could we slash if got rid of the EPA, TSA, DEA, ATF, and a whole bunch of those other government agencies?  How about if we slashed salaries on the chuckleheads in DC who are creating this mess?

I have serious issues with a bunch of chumps with li'l pieces of paper saying they is smart when everything they do and say pretty much points them out to be self-serving jack-holes.  (Yes I know the super run-on sentence is bad grammer but screw it.  I ain't got no paper saying I is educated).

240 That is useful information and its quite easy to come a croper if you are not vigilant.

241 http://www.z7mh.com/Psychological-problems

242

http://www.z7mh.com/Psychological-problems/