1 Cain's plan for a federal sales tax is disastrous. We will live to regret the day we give the government an entirely new tax lever.

2 After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience.

That's pretty much it. I like Cain but no, we've already had one well spoken amateur in office. Not him.

Perry can turn this around, but only if he repudiates his immigration talk immediately.

3 Bob Dole is ready to make his move!

4 You gotta stop worrying about electability.  Why?  Cause it's always impossible to know the other side's mind.

Remember when the Left elected Kerry cause we'd find him "electable"?  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.......aaaaahhhhh.  I loved that.

BUT Ace is right about Cain.  Running a business and greasing the wheels in Washington are two very different things.

5

Cain's 9-9-9 plan is pretty solid stuff. How you keep it from going to 10-10-10 and beyond is a quandary.

6 Perry can turn this around, but only if he repudiates his immigration talk immediately.

He won't.  You can't go from "if you don't agree with tuition for illegals, you have no heart" to "throw the bums out".  You just can't.

7 I am for Perry, but if Cain got the nomination, I would be honored to vote for him.  I cannot hear him speak, or see his face without smiling.  Both Perry and Cain inspire trust, and I feel that is important. 

Don't forget to watch the Lions win today.  It will be three in a row.

8 Wait, no experience? Obama had never even held a job. Cain was CEO of a large company and has served on the Kansas City Federal Reserve Board, among other banking and finance-related positions. That is just a ridiculous comparison.

9 Is this really Drew or is it Ace??   Just kidding, I'm shocked by this unexpected turn of events too.  Where did all the Ron Paulians go?  Did the flying saucer take them away?  Cain just looked like a real candidate the last debate and it looks like all these straw polls are a measure of the results of the prior debate.

10 Oh, I forgot to say that I was happy to see Byron York give Cain the credit for winning-rather than Romney "gave" Cain the win.

11 Point is, Cain is hardly a novice in political circles, but he has done it through experience-based activity, not lying and palm-greasing. God, we really want a repeat of the Chicago Way because this time it's "our" guy? (Yes, I'm looking at you, Romney and Perry.)

12 I have to take at least partial issue with your statement about Cain's experience. You're correct in that he has no experience in the political arena. That is not to say he has no political experience. As a CEO, one has to be political quite often to placate shareholders, etc. What he does bring to the table is experience in the real world and that is something sorely lacking with the entire current administration. He is aware of many of the things he doesn't know in the political world and has hired advisors to help him in this area. He also has a good idea of where he stands on most issues and isn't afraid to say it. I don't know that I would support him to the nomination but I know of no other candidate thus far who is any better. Perry is a non-starter for me as of now because of his gardisil flop and even more so, his stance on illegal immigration. I suppose if he were nominated though I would hold my nose and vote for him simply to get rid of the SCOAMF in office right now. 

13 Yeah, that's the funny thing isn't it? After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience. ----------------------------------- It's ok when we do it. Heh heh.

14 Romney--bloodless and somewhat creepy technocratic opportunist whom nobody likes, nobody really wants to vote for.

Santorum and Gingrich--has beens

Bachmann--nuts and not qualified

Cain--presidency shouldn't be your first elected office, although the GOP did nominate Wilkie in 1940 without having held elective office

Huntsman--LOL

Perry--starting to look like a stuffed shirt

Paul--a little cranky on domestic policy, and full on batshit on foreign policy

We need to start over from scratch.

15

"Electing a political novice President is going to be a bridge to far for a lot of people. Especially after Obama. That's why we're in this mess to begin with."

 

No, the real world business experience is what Obama lacks.  His experience in the mechanics of government and Marxist dogma aren't lacking at all.  That's why we're in this mess.

 

I'm supporting Cain and I'm donating.  Hope this wont be another Fred Thompson bummer.

16 After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience

I think you're missing a point, Drew. Unlike the stuttering cluster*** of a miserable failure, Cain has some actual, verifiable cred and an actual verifiable history of hard work and success, even if it's not in politics.

The Newt and Mutt Romney have cred (well, sort of) and history in politics, and neither one should even be considered for the presidency, IMO.

I'm getting sick and tired of the anal-ysis, all of which seems based on the We Need a Politician to Lead Us theory, which I consider more a bug than a feature at this time.

Let the candidates do their things, let the chips fall where they may, and with luck we'll have a candidate who is a stark contrast to Osama Obama, that is, not a totally inexperienced traitor.

And while my standard disclaimer is that I will vote for any name that isn't Obama on the presidential ballot. I think fewer people than we'll need will do that if the alternate name is Romney.

Plus, if Romney were elected, I sense that he'd only slow down the end of America as a viable nation that the Traitor-in-Chief has been pushing, not stop it.

17 Romney is unelectable.

18 >>Cain's plan for a federal sales tax is disastrous. We will live to regret the day we give the government an entirely new tax lever.<<

Absolutely correct.  I don't know about anyone else, but I don't trust the Congress to come up with a cogent tax system that's any better than the one we have.  Especially one that includes a new tax vehicle.

By the time it's all said and done, there will be exemptions and cash transfers to the bottom 50% and the 999 will become the 202020 or higher for everyone else.

You know it's true.

19 Others remained skeptical of Cain's ultimate chances but decided to send the message that they would choose candidates based on conservative principles, and not on perceived electability.


that. Cain isn't slick He is a conservative voice that is tuned in. He doesn't insult His fellow conservatives.

Yeah, that's the funny thing isn't it? After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker

We hear slick from Romney.

saying that can He win? i don't know, He certainly doesn't have the funds that others do.
He has experience in finance , He is smarter than hell.
He does have issues with foreign policy knowledge , can a VP take care of that?  not sure. He is a quick study .

I believe it's a message.
Perry might pull up . But srsly He was handed the ring, all He needed was to grab it. My hope is He gets back in the saddle and succeeds. We won't know until next debate.

20 I'm getting sick and tired of the anal-ysis, all of which seems based on the We Need a Politician to Lead Us theory, which I consider more a bug than a feature at this time.

well I don't know - you need someone who has experience actually winning a political campaign previously, don't you think?

21

Romney is an ass. He is saying Perry is not ready for C in C. I hate that blowhard. Though I dont blame him for saying that cause Perry has been an absolute disaster. As for Cain, he'll drop out before primaries begin. Straw Polls mean nothing. See Ames.

I don't know when Bachmann is going to drop out. Her campaign is on its last leg of fundraising and the constant robo calls are butt fuckingly annoying, which might piss people off. Romney might prop her up along with santorum just to nip the ankles of any threats to Romney. (Perry, Palin etc.)

22 >> Electing a political novice President is going to be a bridge to far for a lot of people. Especially after Obama. Whoa there buddy. There's a big difference between "no fucking experience at anything" (Obama) and "political novice" (Cain). Fuck, Romney's reputed competence rests mostly on his business background and the turnaround of the SLC Olympics. Caretaking liberal Massachusetts for 4 years, OTOH, didn't give it much of a boost - to the contrary, it gave him his biggest liability.

23 The only way I'll accept Cain's 999 plan is if it is a constitutional amendment. It wont happen though. Without an amendment, it's just a 666 plan.

24 Professional politicians got us into the current mess, please don't pretend that SCOAMF hasn't really been a politician his entire life. Why should we be so worried about electing people whom aren't professional politicians and have real world experience of running successful businesses?

25

I think you're missing a point, Drew. Unlike the stuttering cluster*** of a miserable failure, Cain has some actual, verifiable cred and an actual verifiable history of hard work and success, even if it's not in politics.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 25, 2011 12:07 PM (YjjrR)

Knowing as little as I do about politics (which is odd considering the time I spend here) it appears to me that an extensive background in politics is a liablity, not an advantage.

I'll take an experienced businessman/woman over an experienced politician any day of the week.

Cain can hire political advisors to help navigate the treacherous shoals of politics.

 

26 Is Perry on any media sunday shows? Why not?

27 OT but.... the hell with it. You guys abandoned me on the last thread.

Did you see where the republicans at UC Berkeley are holding a bake sale with the price of items determined by race?

$2 for Caucasians
$1.50 for Asians
75 cents for African Americans
25 cents for Native Americans

They are trying to make the point about the unfairness and absurdity of using race for admissions but apparently the enlightened ones are too thick to see the parallels.

The republican club may now get kicked off campus for it.

28 Obama's experience problem is not just that he has no business experience.  Obama has no real world life experience.  He's simply not one of us.  He doesn't know jack about America.

29 Is Perry on any media sunday shows? Why not?

Good question.

30 The only reason Cain won is because all the Oreos in Florida put on their marching shoes.

31 Lots of word, Drew. You seem awfully CONCERNED that Perry isn't quite cutting it. Oh well, I know you know Cain can't be nominated, so I'm assuming you secretly loves you some Romney. That's the only way I can read your approach to things.

32 Watch the clips of Zero doing his black talk stuff, his voice rising up into a bellowing chant, at the CBC event yesterday.

Then imagine some alternative universe, sometime next fall, with two black men competing for the presidency, one only half black and whole speech and rhythyms are all phony put-ons, the other one genuine.

How post-racial could we get? 

Or would it become the most racist of all campaigns, with the donks going full-out retard race-hatred?

33 The more I think about it the more irritating this post is.  It's not as if we're considering nominating some academic puke like the Bamster.  Conservatives wouldn't stand for that for a minute.  Yes, there is a difference between them and us.

34 Every time an unorthodox candidate gets some traction, even momentarily, the same people crap on it by focusing on its most superficial similarity to Obama's ascension. I'm sick of it.

Obama's smooth talking (back when it existed) and inexperience are not why he's a stuttering clusterfark of a miserable failure. It's because he's a strident Leftist. In short, his values and priorities stink. A more experienced Obama would not be a better Obama.

So as long as our candidate is not also a strident Leftist, we are not doing the same thing the Democrats did in 2008.

35 Getting corporate taxes and person income tax below $1-2 million down to 15% is very important...  Just not buying a VAT or Sales Tax in any form...  That said, a candidate who is aggressive on taxation is important. 

Now that a group of people has indicated Cain is electable, its a three man race, with Perry limping with 3 months to recover, and Romney suffering with a terminal case of Romneycare which caps his support at about 20%

36 Comparing Stuttering Clusterfuck Of A Miserable Failure's lack of experience to Cain's lack of political experience is simply bullshit.

37 After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience.

I guess it all depends on what one's definition of "experience" is, doesn't it?

The Founding Fathers ALL had "little or no experience", as do the far majority of people entering Public Office for the first time.

"Experience" in Public Office is what got us to where we are now.

Send in the noobs.

38 37
Howie Carr spanks Rick Perry in the Boston Herald.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at September 25, 2011 12:23 PM (Lt/Za)

Nah, I'm straight.

39 Oh...and as a Floridian, let me say that this friggin pay to vote in the straw poll bullshit pisses me off. A handful of delegates paying $175 to speak for the rest of us?

And....every news organization that reports the results should report the fact that, unlike Iowa, the cost to vote here was well out of reach for most citizens. As if there was a choice to participate in the vote in the first place.

I am so irritated about this bullshit.

40 George Washington never held elected office before he was President. All he had was a lot of real-world experience.

41 Pizza's in the oven, and fantasy line-ups are set.  Bring on the football (and the football thread)!

42

I've really warmed up to Cain in the last two debates.  I would much rather see a successful businessman as president than another career politician.  I haven't given up on the notion of a citizen president.  If he gathers the right people around him for his cabinet and advisors, he'll do really well, I think.  And I'm thinking he's learned from his business experience the importance of having the right people to draw from.  People with actual problem-solving skills.

I'll give Perry one more chance to get his act together, but it's a big hill for him to climb now.  His views on immigration bother me, but I'm willing to acknowledge that the illegal immigrant problem is different at a state level from what it is at the federal level.  But he needs to expound on how he would approach the problem as president.

43

If Rick Perry is going to stop Romney he needs to turn it around quickly.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:50 AM

Arrogant much?

We are more than 13 months from the election, and 11 months from the convention. What inside information do you have that gives any indication that Perry needs to rebound quickly?

44 romney, ugh.  he is on the bottom of my list, even below ron paul.

45 Romney's daddy was a Michigan governor back in the day, and was pretty well-liked.  Romney won on warm-fuzzy-sentimentality.

46 It's going to take more than a Republican president to excise the cancer of Obamneycare. We are already about a year into its implementation, business will plan on the assumption it will roll out as it is established law; the law leaves an ocean of uncertainties regarding new medical bureaucracies and micromanaging rules yet to be written by unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats. After all, we had to pass it to find out what was in it, and we found no one really knows how gubmint will actually pin down devilish details. Think what that means for employers. They cannot plan. A waiver gimmick is nice, but that is merely living on borrowed time and the whim of a single politician. It will be challenged in court. As hard as Demotards fought to get Hellcare passed by hook or by crook, it will be equally if not more tough to repeal it. It will not happen. Hellcare will be managed and modified. You know, so gubmint can "run it like a business." Like the post office.

47

One big difference to me: Cain clearly loves this country. 48% of us saw that JugEars didn't.

48 46 romney, ugh.  he is on the bottom of my list, even below ron paul.

  Mine to.Unless something happens we will be "stuck" with him. I'm really going to have to hold my nose to vote for him...

49 47  Romney's daddy was a Michigan governor back in the day, and was pretty well-liked.  Romney won on warm-fuzzy-sentimentality.

Posted by: Taxpayer at September 25, 2011 12:29 PM (NpmCe)

How does "well-regarded in Michigan" translate into victory in Massachusetts?

50 I love Cain and have for a long time, but we need a guy that can beat the Joker.  With the stumbling bumbling Perry, anybody but Mitt, and also rans, there is no current winner in the field.  So besides Palin, who could jump in that could actually bring all the anti-Jokers together to run the Joker out of office.  What I am hearing here is about how no one can win, which is BS because the Joker is weak and an empty suit, so who can strap on their helmet and win this thing?

51 Perry needs to show us what he is made of and turn this around. After watching the YouTube video "Mitt Romney on Abortion - 2002" there is no way I can vote for him.

52 if we vote for the same old same old...we are going to get the same old same old........

53 I don't even want Cain as VP (yet), but I would love to see him with a role in the next administration --give him a blank check for slashing (and dismantling) wasteful government programs (BIRM) and turn him loose.

54 I'm in Florida so my primary vote actually does count for something and is is where I'm at as of now: I will not vote Romney in the primary (the egenral is a different story- ABO). I don't trust him as far as I could throw him and I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire. I have absolutely no confidence that he would do much of anything for the country aside from tinker around the edges, because he comes across as a technocrat who thinks that government can be the answer so long as the right person is running things. No, thanks! So, I plan on watching the primaries and caucuses earlier than my own state very closely. And whoever comes into Florida with the best chance of taking out Mittens is who will get my vote. I'm leaning Perry right now but I'd have zero problem pulling the lever for Herman as he was my first choice prior to the no comment he issued early on about Afghanistan. Anyone but Romney in the primary and anyone but Obama in the general. That's how I'm voting.

55 Romney/Cain 2102 -- Good chance of winning

Perry/Cain 2012 -- Good chance of winning

Cain/Anyone -- Not so good chance of winning

This calculus is all that matters, DrewM's pontifications notwithstanding.

56 john but now we have the new (not improved, just pandering) romney!

57 52 I love Cain and have for a long time, but we need a guy that can beat the Joker.  With the stumbling bumbling Perry, anybody but Mitt, and also rans, there is no current winner in the field.  So besides Palin, who could jump in that could actually bring all the anti-Jokers together to run the Joker out of office.  What I am hearing here is about how no one can win, which is BS because the Joker is weak and an empty suit, so who can strap on their helmet and win this thing?

Posted by: Sandy Salt at September 25, 2011 12:32 PM (iGZkF)

--Regardless of who gets nominated, whoever does so needs to make a solid VP choice to allay the doubters' fears.  (See: Bush and Cheney.)  If Romney were to pick Rubio as his running mate (dare to dream!), how many of those who are wary of Mitt would feel a eentsy-teensy bit better about him?

58 phoenixgirl I know it is wrong to call people names, so Lord forgive me, but Romney is a weasel. That video convinced me.

59 I like Mitt, but I think I could vote for Newt at this point. Or maybe Christie will enter the race.

60
The only Republican Presidential candidate with no elected, appointed or senior level military experience:

Wendell Willkie - 1940

Now let's stop being silly and choose a real candidate.

61 Well I don't agree with the whole "throw all the politicians out" bit.  Do you *really* want someone who has *never* won *any* election in his life to try to get his first win at this level, when the stakes are so high?

Not even Michael Jordan won a championship in his rookie year.

62 "--Regardless of who gets nominated, whoever does so needs to make a solid VP choice to allay the doubters' fears.  (See: Bush and Cheney.)  If Romney were to pick Rubio as his running mate (dare to dream!), how many of those who are wary of Mitt would feel a eentsy-teensy bit better about him?" Not I. I would actually feel an eentsy-teensy bit worse about Rubio, actually. And I love that man.

63 chemjeff buster posey did.........

64 Anyone but Romney in the primary and anyone but Obama in the general. That's how I'm voting.

Same here and that guy used to be my Governor.

65 Not even Michael Jordan won a championship in his rookie year.


Cam Newton! _{(I keed)}

Don't you know this is football Sunday?

66 There are three tax plans that I am willing to entertain in amendment form, straight tax (say $2000 per 18 year old or some such number), flat tax (say 5% for all), or the fair tax (20% sales tax with no other taxes).  Every one of these is better than the current progressive tax system, since this is America and last time I checked everyone is equal, so why aren't their tax. 

I do think that we should have a corporate tax, but it should be low with zero loop holes because there should be some cost to excess the richest market in the world.  Cain supports the fair tax, which when you read more about it makes some sense, but just like all the others it has to be put in an Amendment because the career criminals in Congress will find a way to line their pockets otherwise.

67 keegan bradley did

68

And imagine what a Cain candidacy would do to the rabid left.  The race card would be eliminated once and for all.  Completely.  The Jeneane Barfolos and Morgan Freemans and racist Congressional Black Caucus members and Pelosis of the left would have nothing left to attack with. 

How could they accuse the Tea Party of being a bunch of racist knuckle-dragging idiots?  It would be all about Barely Obama's record.

Now that would be sweet!

69 I was behind Cain from the first time I heard him speak and read his resume, but I figured he was unelectable and that Perry was the best shot. Now? I'd love to think that the tables are turning, but I'm not so sure. Sadly, chemjeff is absolutely right in that the Republic has reached the point where the best line on any politician's resume is not bold leadership but rather a previous election win (Heinlein you bastard, how right you were). Cain has real world experience and most likely the flexibility required to take advice when plans go to Hell and then make a new plan (unlike the career Keynsians and Marxists currently inhabiting Washington), but Perry's or Romney's track record of simply being able to win an election, regardless of how much he pisses off the base (heartless? My legal half-Colombian ass takes exception to that) may trump all of that. I pray it does not, but it may. Sad days for the Republic. We're not far from bread and circuses, if we haven't already passed that point. Empire or dissolution will follow if we don't make some changes quickly.

70 I disagree that the race card won't be used if we nominate a black man. They'll just insist he isn't a real black man, like Bill Clinton was. They'll say that "black" isn't a skin color; it's a set of values, and they'll insist that only liberal values qualify.

71 Goldie Wilson 2012

72 73 Goldie Wilson 2012

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 25, 2011 12:43 PM (Fgj1+)

LOL

73 And imagine what a Cain candidacy would do to the rabid left.  The race card would be eliminated once and for all.  Completely.

Oh that's nonsense.  The race card would get worse.  You'd have idiot leftists showing up at Cain campaign events throwing Oreos at him.

74

Political office should be a job for the inexperienced. If you've spent your career gaining experience as a politician, it means you haven't been gaining any experience at anything useful. As many others have stated, it's been the professional political class that's largely responsible for the mess we're in now.

And no fucking Ivy Leaguers! We should bar all Harvard grads from holding any office higher than dogcatcher for at least the next ten years.

75 I am with chemjeff about the left's anti-Cain attacks.  They would call him every nasty name for leaving the democrat plantation.

76 I can't vote for Romney. Not after McCain. I'm done. I have voted for my last RINO. If they can't shit me a conservative they lose me.

77 72I disagree that the race card won't be used if we nominate a black man. They'll just insist he isn't a real black man, like Bill Clinton was. They'll say that "black" isn't a skin color; it's a set of values, and they'll insist that only liberal values qualify.

Posted by: Kensington at September 25, 2011 12:43 PM (uaEZS)

And they would get shredded.  It's easy to make the point that it's incredibly racist to insist that people have to think a certain way ideologically because of the color of their skin.  No, that won't fly.

78 Caliendo is hilarious today!

79 Sadly, chemjeff is absolutely right in that the Republic has reached the point where the best line on any politician's resume is not bold leadership but rather a previous election win (Heinlein you bastard, how right you were).

I just want to be clear on this.  I'm not saying that the "best" line on a resume is a previous election win.  I'm saying that previous election wins don't count for *nothing*.  I want someone who has previously won an election so that he knows what he's doing in how to run a campaign.  Of course I also want bold leadership and great ideas.  But previous election wins are also important.

80 "Yeah, that's the funny thing isn't it? After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience." The thing is, Cain doesn't come across as quite so slick when he is asked questions, particularly about foreign policy. The things he said about muslims at the onset of his campaign were disasters; if actually got the nomination, they would come back to bite him, Big Time. He looks confident when giving a speech, but I don't see that confidence when he is asked a difficult question. That may actually be a sign of sanity, in lieu of hubris... but I don't know if that can win a general election. I'm just really, really amazed that in the very year the GOP should be nominating an unabshed Barry Goldwater type (talk about Now or Never!), we are apparently on our way to RINO-land. Do we conservatives REALLY so lack the courage of our own convictions, that we always assume that they are unelectable if not diluted? The Democrats now have two things up on us, as I see it: 1. Recognizing that Bush W's implosion was their Now or Never Chance to elect a stalwart socialist, they reached completely, utterly, unapologetically to the Radical Left and won, and 2. Recognizing that some things are worth politically dying for, they sacrificed control of the House of Representatives for the chance to force Soviet-style medicine down our collective throats. Why? Because they just KNEW that Republican Romney-like squishes will never get rid of a radically huge new entitlement once its in place. And now, of course, we appear well on our way to confirming their belief: At a time when we should be going hard right, we are talking ourselves into RINO-land. We are going to nominate a guy that is scolding conservatives for questioning FDR's New Deal Wisdom! Really, Romney scolding us over our lack of commitment to Ponzi Security reminds me of McCain scolding that poor, prescient woman crying that Obama was going to destroy America as we knew it. It's a strange day indeed when a RINO can make ideological fealty to Franklin Fucking Roosevelt's New Deal a litmus test for the Republican nomination. But that appears to be what has happened.

81

Evidently the key thing was Perry leaving the State to go to MI before the vote. Huh?  And everybody is claiming victory. But that is normal.

 

My feeling is Perry supporters who change their vote based on these BS “debates” were never real supporters to begin with. I have a wait and see attitude here. And no, I don’t expect anything different from the next debate. Just look who is sponsoring it.

 

Republicans MUST figure out a better way to hold real debates. I am not saying that because Perry didnÂ’t do so good. Hell, I donÂ’t think Romney did any better.  I thought Cain and Newt were the real winners but their odds of getting the nomination are long. 

 

But no, they donÂ’t call them the party of stupid for nothing. They will continue to meet the commie loving press on their own terms.

82 Political office should be a job for the inexperienced.

I agree!

83

Do you *really* want someone who has *never* won *any* election in his life to try to get his first win at this level, when the stakes are so high?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 25, 2011 12:39 PM (s7mIC)

 

Granted, the problem with this country is not Obama but the people for voted for him.

Let me try a different angle. Is it possible that Obama so damages himself during the next 13 months that Cain's "unelectability" becomes a non-issue and is that a risk worth taking?

 

84

Let me try a different angle. Is it possible that Obama so damages himself during the next 13 months that Cain's "unelectability" becomes a non-issue and is that a risk worth taking?

 

Posted by: ErikW at September 25, 2011 12:50 PM (n+tSt)

You mean SCOAMF hasn't yet?

85 It's easy to make the point that it's incredibly racist to insist that people have to think a certain way ideologically because of the color of their skin.

And we make that point all the time right now, because that is exactly what the idiot leftist race-mongers believe.  And yet here we are, somehow we are labeled the racist ones.

86 We need a guy who won't put his foot in his mouth.  Perry has not been that guy yet.  Unfortunately, Cain isn't either.  When you don't have experience in elected office, that becomes much more important.  You'd need to be able to reassure people besides the base, especially when the Democrats' main like on of attack for anybody but Romney is going to be that our guy is a wacko.

As to the idea that private sector experience and an absence of holding elected office is **by itself** the solution, two words:  Herbert Hoover (and, yeah, I know Roosevelt prolonged the Great Depression, but Hoover did f'k it up towards the end of his tenure).

Having political experience may not mean you have the right answers or are more insightful, but it does give you more experience in winning elections, in negotiating with people who disagree with you (something Obama is incapable of), and managing different sectors of the government.  While I'm also wary of dealing despots in the Middle East, it's kind of beyond me how Cain is going to handle our foreign policy there after his Muslim comments...I don't just mean what actions he'll take.  I mean how he'll be capable of it after people replay his comments over and over again.  Yeah, toss in boiler-plate snarky response here...but he will have to undertake a serious foreign policy in the area.

87 Cain won the SNL debate!!! No one else delivers.

88 Barry OdipO was a special kind of inexperience, as in none.  Did he ever even have a secretary in prior to politics?  There is all kinds of politics played in every office and business in this country.  I don't think he had any.  There is daily negotiation skills in every office and business in the country.  He didn't have any.  And when he was senator (both state and federal) he did everything he could to not even vote.  He had the life experience of a junior high school student, thats it.

Now today he is telling blacks to march.  For what?  Jobs?  oh no, for him.  that's a laugher.

89 Perry dug himself a deep hole with the "no heart" comment and I don't see how he will haul himself out of it. For me, illegal immigration is a "head" issue: do you follow the rule of law or not? Illegal is illegal, not some nuanced position to dance around in order to appease as many people as possible.

90 And how much love and respect has the Left offered to Clarence Thomas?

91

You mean SCOAMF hasn't yet?

Posted by: Unclefacts Out Of Commenting Retirement Just For This One Thing at September 25, 2011 12:51 PM (6IReR)

That's my point. Obama's numbers are so fucking bad, why not run a true Conservative. Hell, bin Laden got whacked and Obama didn't even get a bounce.

92 87It's easy to make the point that it's incredibly racist to insist that people have to think a certain way ideologically because of the color of their skin.

And we make that point all the time right now, because that is exactly what the idiot leftist race-mongers believe. And yet here we are, somehow we are labeled the racist ones.

Posted by: chemjeff at September 25, 2011 12:51 PM (s7mIC)

I'm not aware of the argument being made on a national stage for all to see.  But regardless, this is merely my opinion versus your opinion and it's not worth an argument over a supposition.  We can agree to disagree, I hope.

93 It's a strange day indeed when a RINO can make ideological fealty to Franklin Fucking Roosevelt's New Deal a litmus test for the Republican nomination. But that appears to be what has happened. Posted by: CoolCzech at September 25, 2011 12:48 PM

Your points are one reason I personally take Cain very seriously. Not his gaffes, which I'm not thinking are all that cringe-worthy, but his basic message and the life experience that has led him to deliver that message.

The SCoaMF tried to shame people into voting for him (at least aside from the blacks, who got the "help a brother out" message, loud and clear) and it worked. Most of the politicians on our side of the aisle want our support because they've been in (or around) politics a long time, so of course they're qualified.

Cain might be the closest thing to a New Goldwater we're going to get, and if he continues to look that way I'll be 100% supportive of his candidacy.

One thing I won't do -- unless we're talking about Mutt Romney or RON PAUL!!11!! -- is try to crucify each candidate if they have a weak debate performance or because the chattering classes say he's "not electable."

One of 'em's going to be the candidate, and the best way to keep the RINOs at bay is to accent the positives of those who have positives. That would include Cain and Perry right now, at a minimum.

94 Did Herman Cain know he was going to campaign for the nomination?  Did he bother to get informed on foreign affairs because he doesn't seem to know much about the world.  I don't want any more catch-phrases.  We've been living with Hope and Change for years.  Now we have this 9-9-9 thing?

Someone please be serious.  Stop smiling.  Address the public as if they were adults.
We don't need a Hale Fellow Well Met, we need someone who is prepared to do this terribly difficult job.  And I know I'm in the minority but Herman Cain hasn't demonstrated he's the person for the office.  Maybe he will.  But he's unprepared at this point.  We already have someone in office who came to us with catch-phrases, lilting speeches and smiles a mile wide and a centimeter deep who's learning disabled because he's flunking out of OJT.  The country won't last through another ill-conceived gamble based on how nice the candidate seems.

95 @91: Perry was freaking STUPID for the "no heart" bullshit. I like to think some consultant talked him into it, but even THAT is no excuse. The question we have to ask ourselves is, What is, at this time, the most important issue facing America? It's the future of America's economy and way of life. Obamacare is a stab into the very heart of that way of life, as is his entire regulatory agenda. (It should be some consolation, I guess, that his economy is so horrible, Mexico will likely start to attract illegal American immigration in the not-too-distant future. And it goes without saying, of course, that American liberals will be just OUTRAGED by Yankees that "invade" Mexico and refuse to learn Spanish.) Perry is disappointing, but God help me, I just don't see a real alternative to him. I don't see the others as electable, and I sure as hell can't envision Romney repealing Obamacare. Why, I'll wager money that he already has a plan in his back pocket to "fix" it. And here's a secret, boys & girls: there IS no "fix" for Big Government Programs. Period.

96 Posted by: Borzage at September 25, 2011 01:02 PM (FdwDa)

Like I said, comparing SCOAMF's background to Cain's and declaring them equal is bullshit.

97 I am ready for a cheerleader, pick well cob logger.

98 The dems fell for a smooth talking marxist cocksucker who told us in a round about way he was gonna shove a socialst stick in our ass and break it off, who had also not accomplished a damn thing of worth in his life, and really knows zero about most things.

The repubs are falling for a smooth talking AMERICAN who indeed knows wtf he is talking about and has a good head for business.


big difference if you ask me

99 I support Hermain Cain's Chilean model proposal, just hope he doesn't get a beer poured on him.

100 Well, that was a nasty little post and very unfair to Cain. I personally don't think Cain's ready for the oval office either (just look at any answer he's given on foreign policy), but to basically say he's the same level of unready as the SCoaMF was before being elected is just plain old bullshit, Drew. You should be ashamed. Un-puff yourself and actually take a look at Cain's life/history up next to Obama's before you post a wad of nonsense like this again, please.

101 "And here's a secret, boys & girls: there IS no "fix" for Big Government Programs. Period." Correct. Waivers Eleventy!!! is a good gimmick but it took supermajorities and a leftwing ideologue of a president to establish Hellcare. It will take more than that to dislodge it given the MFM and if we even get a Repub in the WH he won't be an ideologue.

102 How's this as an idea for a Republican debate: Don't let journalists ask the questions. Have a polling organization test which issues are most urgent in voter's minds, and have the topics each candidate is to address publicized well in advance. No surprises, no gotchas! Only a chance for each candidate to address a topic, like, "Obamacare" and be given 5 uninterrupted minutes to explain his position. Then give the others their 5 minutes to respond. Who goes first for each topic is decided by coin toss; the order of the 5 minute rebuttals is assigned alphabetically.

103 Obama's problem isn't he lacked experience. His problem is his damn ideology. He's a socialist. He believes, at the root, Marx was right. He believes in redistributing wealth. He doesn't believe in American exceptionalism. He doesn't value rednecks and Christian evangelicals and tea party types. He doesn't value the core soul of America. Experience is always cited by sports experts as the tipping factor in contests. They are wrong. Talent trumps experience every time.

104 Romney politely raised his hand "Yes, I believe in Global Warming caused by Man" before Fred Thompson refused to respond when refused a 1 minute response, to which Mitt changes his vote to "I'm with you" applauding Fred Thompson.

105 ok lets' go all negative.

Romney- romneycare, (alos takes away the argument we have with overreaching gvt when we start making excuses when one of ours do it)and overt change in right to life status
Perry-  heartless, tired? illegal immigration, (although i don't believe He is for it, but found wrong solutions) it IS difficult to explain when everyones dander is up the difference between our welcoming arms to legal front door immigration  and not sounding like we hate immigrants when we have the left shrilly shrieking we hate everyone!
Cain. yeah  the Muslim comment will come back and slash his tires IF he gets the nod , as anyone from the rights would.
Bachman, has the right idea about smaller gvt etc, I like it, but gardisil and constant attacks on our hopeful make Her look liek a jerk,
Hunstman, just say NO!
Johnson, who in the heck is he again?
Paul. honestly He scares me as much as Obama. However i do basically agree with his fiscal policies, isolationism not at all, or his remarks about Iran and nukes. (we have em so could they) doesn't make me feel safe in this world at this point.

106 103: "Correct. Waivers Eleventy!!! is a good gimmick but it took supermajorities and a leftwing ideologue of a president to establish Hellcare." And it WILL be Hellish, make no mistake. Hate standing in line down at Motor Vehicles? Well, My God, just imagine what your world will be like when you're 70, and have to sit for hours and hours in the office of the only specialist left within driving distance in between two pregnant illegal "Latinas," treated like shit by the doctor's staff because - after all - you have nowhere else to go anyway, AND then finally be "seen" by an overworked, underpaid doctor that merely looks at your chart, asks you one or two questions, and never even makes eye contact with you as he shoves you out the door before you can ask a question of your own. If you think government bureaucracy is repugnant now, just imagine when your hospital looks like the set for Soylent Green Healthcare. And that is EXACTLY where Obamacare will take us.

107 coolczech at 104 i like it.

I'd also like for the candidate hopeful to be asked what is the most important thing facing america, and what would they do to address it?

108 Posted by: CoolCzech at September 25, 2011 01:10 PM

Better than anything I've heard so far!

I wish we could also get the "pundits" to agree to stop with the instant analysis, too, but that's too much to expect. A day or two to think about the substance and demeanor instead of instant reaction might change some reactions.

As it stands, even the "winner" of this dream debate would be pulled apart by the "Poppin' Fresh/National Review/AoSHQ (sadly) crowd, not matter how well they came across.

109 To compare Cain and Odumdum and their respective levels of experience and rousing oratory, without contrasting conservative capitalist principles against Alinsky style divide and conquer, community communism misses the main point of their potential battle.

But I guess it might ignite a discussion.

Cain is a proud and accomplished self motivated achiever, and the precedent is a commie mutant Defermative Action lab rat.

110 Obama's problem isn't he lacked experience. His problem is his damn ideology. He's a socialist. He believes, at the root, Marx was right. He believes in redistributing wealth.

Yes. Yes it is. His lack of real world experience has perpetuated his ideology. He has no idea what it means to run a business, or balance a budget, or pay through the nose for one tax after another. He thinks all those nasty rich, white men inherited their money because he has no fucking idea how one would go about earning it because, although he, too, has become wealthy through book sales, HE DIDN'T EARN THAT EITHER.

It would be difficult for anyone not living in a cocoon of Dohrns and Ayers' to continue to believe what he does. Any exposure to the real world would have exposed the fallacy in his ideology.

111 Cain is a proud and accomplished self motivated achiever, and the precedent is a commie mutant Defermative Action lab rat.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 25, 2011 01:18 PM (HBqDo)

yes

112

My two cents:

Cain's win surprised me. Perry had this sewn up until this last debate here in Florida. Good for Cain, and may the best MAN win the primary (yes, I want a man POTUS who will scare the Middle East). I am not much for the whole straw poll deal (as I understand it, many Romney voters went for Cain to throw off Perry's lead. Don't know if that is true or not).

National security is my number one issue, with the economy a very close second. Things are going to get uglier with Iran, Pakistan, Russia's ties to Hugo Chavez and China's ties to Cuba for oil. As W used to say, Axis of Evil. We were all surprised to go ten years after 9/11 without a dirty bomb or chemical warfare. Who would respond the best to a 3am call? I still think that person is Rick Perry, followed by Romney. Rick Perry would not mess around, former Air Force Captain. Romney would have a great cabinet and control and understanding of what was before him. The rest? Not so sure. I like many of the rest as people, strong conservatives, and a Congresswoman who votes conservative with her 23 foster children. Who do I want to lead? Not sure yet.

Who do I want to debate Obama on the national stage for votes? Well, that would be Gingrich followed by Romney. Could we clone the good traits into one man? Gingrich, irritating and flawed that he is in person, is a brilliant debater. Cain is a nice conservative man, good ideas, good speeches, needs to be Secretary of Commerce or something, but not sure if I can go for someone for president with no political experience or solid knowledge base of foreign affairs.

I agree with Drew, I do not want to fall into the swooning masses over a good speech or how they wear jeans (Perry). In reality, who can beat The Won? Right now that is Romney in the general. They are all flawed, all of them. If Mitt Romney chose Marco Rubio as VP it would be the best thing he could do for the conservative base. If he would admit Romneycare was wrong, he could erase that flaw and move on. He cannot erase his religion (which, as I said before after living in Utah for a decade and traveling there frequently, I have no problem with Mormons).

Chris Christie? I'd vote for him, but he leans a little left on immigration, but that issue is not as important to me as in the past. I am still anti-illegal immigration, and we need to keep voting for reps in Congress who are against amnesty, but it is not a deal-breaker for POTUS for me.

Palin? No. Just no. She sealed her fate with me when she did a reality show. There is no way she'd win vs Obama. No way. Too much baggage, too many snafus and dysfunctional family issues. I was excited when she joined McCain, but less so after the 2008 election. While many of the rumors may be untrue of her, she is very tarnished and could not win the general election; nor would I vote for her in the Florida primary. And if she divides this party for 2012, I will despise her. If she throws support to whoever wins the Primary, and all GOP nominees should, then she will redeem herself in my eyes. Until then, it is all about her. Good ideas, she has done this country good, but I do not want her as President.

The main goal is to beat Obama, which will require the GOP to vote in untiy for the common goal of defeating socialism: North, South, East, West, hillbilly and Wall Street, Christian and Jew. A blend of the RINO with a true conservative would be Romney/Rubio 2012. Both would tear up the debates on national TV when people are actually watching.

That said, I will still vote for ABO and not stay home and pout. It would take a lot, a lot of gin to get me to vote for Ron Paul, however as he is insane. So I don't think about that 3am call for him.

I love you Morons and 'ette's. I won't love you if you stay home in a pity pout in 2012 because your chosen one did not win the primary and is a "RINO" or a "McCain." Will four more years of a socialist heal your wounds, or finish off this great country?

Anyone But Obama.

113 Is Perry on any media sunday shows? Why not?

I saw Bloomberg on this morning, for all of three seconds.  Fucking statist megalomaniac.

114 I can't believe you guys are arguing about the results of a worthless poll where a couple thousand people who had to PAY to vote participated.

Meaningless.. worthless.. stupid.

I love Cain, but he couldn't get elected dog catcher.

I will vote for whoever the party nominates.  Right now it looks like Perry or Romney.  If Palin jumps in, it's definitely Romney.  If it's Romney, we have to hold his feet to the fire to stick to his new-found conservative ideals.  But, anything is better than the SCoaMF.

115 The Immelt/Cain comparison is a cheap shot. Immelt was a legacy GE exec. His career within GE tracks more closely with golden-haired-boy aristocratic trustafarianism than it does business. Cain has an established leadership record as a troubleshooter able to reverse the course of a declining business operation. Whether this experience is sufficient to prepare him to be POTUS is another discussion entirely, but comparing Cain to Immelt is as disingenuous as noting that both Leonardo da Vinci and John Wayne Gacy were painters.

116

 I won't love you if you stay home in a pity pout in 2012 because your chosen one did not win the primary and is a "RINO" or a "McCain."

 

Fuck that. Yeah, I think Cain is worth the risk but I'll be voting. And if it's Paul, I'll be wasted on rum, not that I don't like gin.

117 73 Goldie Wilson 2012
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 25, 2011 12:43 PM (Fgj1+)

A colored president!  That'll be the day!

118 The Immelt/Cain comparison is a cheap shot.

That fucker was on CNN last night throwing a pity party for himself about how he and G.E. should be applauded for the way they conduct business.

I wanted to strangle him.

119

Illegal immigration is just as big a problem as Obamacare.  Why?  Because it will lead to too many people in this country who are not culturally assimilated, do not speak the language, and are poor.  They might not be American citizens, but the children they have in the country will be.  This will inevitably lead to mass calls for such things as the permanent institution of Obamacare, and the creation of other socialist programs.

In short, if you can't control immigration, socialism is just a foregone conclusion.

120

As for experience, yes Cain has significant business experience. So does Jeffery Immelt. Electing a political novice President is going to be a bridge to far for a lot of people. Especially after Obama. That's why we're in this mess to begin with.

I'm so tired of this nonsense. Obama's problem is not his inexperience. Obama's problem is he's a Marxist. In fact, he's been dramatically effective as President. He managed to get us on the fast-track to universal single-payer healthcare—a dream the Donks have had for 80 years now.

You say you want someone with "political experience." Do you even know what that means? It means "experience" in selling statist solutions. It means "experience" in stealing money from productive citizens to buy votes. DrewM wants a professional—a professional thief.

I'm so tired of the "reasonable" squad. "Hey let's be reasonable." "Let's elect a reasonable candidate." Let me tell you: "reasonable" is just a synonym for "status quo." And the status quo is crap. No sale.

121 The key to victory for conservatives in the primaries is to predict where the electorate will be between Labor Day and Election Day, 2012.  Then pick the best candidate that

1. Understands the predicted issues of that period of time,
2. Engages the electorate in a discussion of those issues
3. Offers tested and time-proven solutions for electorates' concerns
4. Has the credibility and moral stamina to carry through his or her agenda

122

As for experience, yes Cain has significant business experience. So does Jeffery Immelt. Electing a political novice President is going to be a bridge to far for a lot of people. Especially after Obama. That's why we're in this mess to begin with.

We're in this mess because Obama's handlers were able to get away with 8 years of Bush bashing and then putting forward a marxiest idealogue.

123 http://youtu.be/TFrApLNmjtk

124 It sounds to me that Cain is the only person offering real content during the debates. Assuming he clears all of the hurdles and lands in the white house, how is he going to achieve any of his lofty schemes? I am all for dismantling as much government as possible. The problem is that this has never happened and probably never will. My money is on the rino with the most money because too many people are wrapped up in the f#cked up state of affairs that it will not be undone. Without some sort of unimaginable meteorite taking out DC, nothing will change. /end Eyore rant over

125 "That fucker was on CNN last night throwing a pity party for himself about how he and G.E. should be applauded for the way they conduct business." GE is so damned big it may as well be a government. Its bureaucratic makeup is just as bad as government. I did subcontract work for a guy who had an effectively exclusive contract with GE for a particular technology solution in the mid and late 90s. The one thing I will never forget is that they had a large management training program that would either create or find arrogant little shits and drop them into their various companies (most of which were recent purchases at that time). Out of the seven or so of these I encountered across various divisions, only one was a stand-up guy. The rest were flaming assholes who could not have been worse if they had been explicitly tasked to go mess with the people where they were sent.

126 Yeah, that's the funny thing isn't it? After screaming and laughing at Democrats for falling for a slick talker with little to no experience the conservative base is falling in love with a stirring speaker with little to no experience.

Barack Obama (D-SOCAMF)'s main problem is not and has never been his lack of experience. It's his ideology.

The President sets the tone and the manning for a vast federal bureaucracy that largely runs itself. Macro decisions implemented by an army of micro-engineers. The fact of the matter is, the character of Barack Obama, the man making the macro-decisions, is set to "redistribute weath" and "social justice". Those values don't improve with time and experience. If anything, they'll get worse as he becomes more accustomed to wielding power.

Herman Cain, on the other hand, has the right ideology, successful leadership experience, and potential to grow into the job. So, the comparison to Obama is superficial, at best.

127 Electing a political novice President is going to be a bridge to far for a lot of people. Especially after Obama. That's why we're in this mess to begin with.

Electing Barack Obama was not a bad thing because he was a political novice, it was a bad thing because he is a political socialist. Herman Cain doesn't not have that problem. He does, however, have a huge problem wrt foreign policy, and it's probably too big to overcome for most voters.

128 Yeah I gotta say in this environment, little political experience is not a liability. Besides he can always leaven his ticket with a Rubio or a Gingrich or a Bolton style career pol at VP. He has executive experience (which is my major knock on Santorum) He's a great speaker. He's black, not a halfsie! I know they'll call him an uncle tom, but I'd like to see them do that to his face. And its the people he picks to run things that make and administration. He's not going to be picking SDS, ACORN, or Muslim Brotherhood members for his cabinet. So that's a plus.

Romney has been trying too hard. He's shown a history of saying whatever he needs to to get elected. I might agree with him on 80% of his policies, but I don't trust him. When push comes to shove he's gonna throw us under the bus, and do whatever is politically expedient.

Perry, brought back the worst memories of W. He seemed tongue tied, and the immigration/heartless thing was the kiss of death. I can just see the libs screaming about electing a Bush clone. And I'm afraid he'd toss us under the bus on immigration too.

Bachmann is wasting our time. She went total batshit crazy. She's too rabid. Too willing to go for the jugular against her own side.

Santorum is too bitter,  the loss of his child and the way the party threw him under the bus in PA has really negatively affected him. He'd be a good VP. But I'm through voting for Senators with no executive experience.

Huntsman WORKED FOR OBAMA! Instant disqualification.

Johnson is the pothead version of Paul, and he can't even come up with his own jokes. Nice he listens to Rush though.

Paul is a crank, some good ideas on size of government and spending, totally off base on foreign policy. The blame America first thing is disgusting and an instant disqualifier.

Newt being Newt. He's a great philosopher, piss-poor king.

129 You know thinking of Hunstman, why hasn't anyone brought up the fact that he was Barry's ambassador? That'd knock him right out of contention.

130 I sincerely hope Romney is not the nominee.  He's another John McCain, someone who wants to move us toward the soft left, as opposed to Obama's hard left. 

Why didn't the Republicans learn anything from 2008? 

Unless or until Romney says that he will repeal ObamaCare, I cannot take him seriously as a conservative leader.

131 Romney on Taxes, Abortion and Guns:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9cma-wQ5OE

132 All these debates and straw polls prove is that this is still the pre-season.

This nomination race has always been Romney vs. Palin and it is still Romney vs. Palin.  Both are and have been running for years now.  Romney is declared because he has the money to do so and needs the name recognition of being a declared candidate.  Palin is currently undeclared because she has the name recognition already and needs to conserve money until she absolutely has to spend.

Occam's razor, fellas.

Everybody else is running for VP, or selling books, or trying to get a cabinet position.  And we have one poor sucker from Texas who listened to the desperate people whispering in his ear and got in without a clue what he was doing, which is now apparent to anyone with eyes that can see.

Sarah Palin will run, she will win the nomination, and she will select Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio as her running mate for reasons that are manifestly obvious if you think about it for more than 30 seconds.

Everything else about this nomination race at the current time is bullshit.

133 "Paul is a crank...totally off base on foreign policy."

I like Ron Paul's more non-interventionist stance, but you're right, blaming the U.S. for Al Qaeda is absolutely nuts.

Cain/Newt or Newt/Cain! The legacy media's collective heads would explode.

134

Unless or until Romney says that he will repeal ObamaCare, I cannot take him seriously as a conservative leader.

 

Romney has said he will repeal Obamacare.  On many occasions.  Here is one:

http://tinyurl.com/3pd7qwt

135

I'm disgusted by the whole thing.  I have a sinking feeling the Stupid Party will give the nomination to Romney, and I'll wind up sitting out election day 2012.  No Way In Hell I'll ever pull a lever for Willard.

A couple observations: it's funny how conservatives are so offended by Perry's "liberal" you don't have a heart language, but don't seem to mind Romney channeling Harry Reid when it comes to Social Security.

Speaking of conservatives who bash Perry for failing the ideological purity test, I really hope they are happy handing the nomination to Romney, and unprincipled, flip-flopping, liberal-masquerading-as-a-conservative.  A contemptable career office seeker who only wants  to be President because it will look good on his resume.

Oh, I know - a lot of people are 100% certain Palin will jump in and steal the nomination from Willard. Well, I've got news for anyone who thinks that way: you're a mouth-breathing, nit-witted, grade-A political moron who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.  You're even dumber than Santorum, who has a room temperature IQ.  It won't happen.

136 If Cain picks up Perry's fumble, I think Palin stays out. I love her but she's too radioactive, she's got to cool down, and do some more substantive work. I actually like her fighting in the culture wars more than in the political wars. She and her father were great in that Discovery series.

137 Cain's win is mostly about folks are looking for a simple to grasp, outside the box solution to the political gridlock that has our nation's economy going nowhere but down.  999 is such a policy. 

Folks are NOT looking for more silly circular brawls between so called leaders over stuff that really isn't moving anyone anywhere. 

Part of Cain's Florida success is also related to how he hasn't been the focus of gotcha attacks by the moderators and other also rans in the field.  Way too much of the focus of these debates has been moderator instigated in-fighting over internal party differences and perspectives while Obama's disasterous leadership gets pretty near a free pass...  

I'm curious about how much of this moderator issue is related to the GOP LOSERship's (or whoever sets these 'debates' up) unwillingness to move beyond the Lamestream media moderators.  Could the LOSERship ever bring itself to offer debates moderated by conservative talkers and bloggers, instead of LameStream liberals? 

138 5

Cain's 9-9-9 plan is pretty solid stuff. How you keep it from going to 10-10-10 and beyond is a quandary.

Posted by: spongeworthy at September 25, 2011 11:57 AM (rplL3)

Yeah, any national sales tax must be wedded to a repeal of the income tax.

139

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 25, 2011 01:22 PM (baL2B)

Yep.

140 THERE IS NO SAL. ONLY ZUUL.

141 Moby ho!

142 How many of these "I'm sitting out election day" if Romney gets the nomination people voted for GWB? Hell most still think he's great?
I said this the other day Perry, Romney, Palin even would all govern pretty much the same.

143 So you're saying that Perry is unelectable because he wouldn't be able to sway the racist Democrat vote, then?

144 Normally I am much for political dynasties, but Romney I can get behind...

Cain did not grow up in a political environment so he has no qualifying experience.

145 Posted by: Sal at September 25, 2011 02:34 PM (AQWdH)

If your names is Sal Rubinstein I'll give your words some thought. If your name is Sal Martinez, I hate you.

146

Evidently the key thing was Perry leaving the State to go to MI before the vote.

Vic, I do think it was a missed opportunity for him to explain where he stands on illegal immigration.  Strategically, he should have used that time to his advantage by expanding on the details of his positions.  A great speach (humble and passionate) would have put a lot of folk's questions to rest.  I think it was a big mistake to leave Florida with the "you don't have a heart" thing stuck in people's craw.

In other words, he needed to make amends for that statement.  It would have been to his advantage to do so.  He and his "advisors" fucked up there.  Perry would have gotten great coverage and it would have helped him going forward.  Michigan was a Mittens' win no-brainer.

Plus, judging by what I've read here and at other websites, a lot of people still do not know he's strongly against illegal immigration.

147 Romney/Cain 2012!

148 Bick Perry. He de man for me !

149 Perry, Cain, Palin, in that order; Romney is a non-starter (Obama lite).

150 Posted by: Sal at September 25, 2011 02:34 PM (AQWdH)


I see your party is still full of idiots.

151 So who can we get behind Rick, Mitt, Herman, Chris, or Sarah?  This is all hot air at this point because every damn one is flawed and until they can cover they weaknesses then the Joker and the lamestream media will eat any of them for lunch.  This sucks!  ABO is the only answer, but that won't work come the general election, so we need someone and soon.

A couple of these fatally flawed need to pair up and make a decent team to show America that they are a far better choice than the Joker and Joe.

152 Perry/Rubio is the answer!

153

Oh yeah, and for all you folks out there that can't get behind Perry because of the tuition issue - IT'S THE RULE OF LAW, WE MUST OBEY THE RULE OF LAW!  IT'S THE LAW!  WE MUST OBEY THE RULES! - but are willing to give the nomination to Romney (Perry's out, Romney's the one that can win), seriously, get a grip.  Tuition Fees vs Romneycare?

Just which one, do ya think, King Putt (who is a stuttering clusterfuck) and his MBM buddies will make the most hay with?  IOW, which one will be used ad nauseum to discourage the Republican/Independent voting base?  Because that's who the target is in their bullshitery- us.

I honestly hope and pray for Perry to get his shit together fast.  Because he is the one who can rally people to the smaller government ideal.  He does have the record and the passion.  And it will absolutely kill me to vote for that shape-shifting skank of a politician, Willard M. Romney.

154 Evidently the key thing was Perry leaving the State to go to MI before the vote.



So, the excuse that Perry lost Florida was that he left early to kick some Romney butt in Romney's home state?

155 Neither Romney nor any of his sons have EVER served their country in the military yet Romney has the ever-lovin' nerve to question Perry's capacity to be Commander in Chief of this great country!  What a travesty and disgrace!  Who could possibly support that Romneycare-passing Romney after that!

Perry/Rubio

156

Someone explain to me why Cain can't win against Obama, because that's all I'm concerned about at this point:  To get the red-diaper baby out of office and replace him with a conservative.  I'm not sure a Romney win would do that.

The left will lose the "RACISM!" rallying cry, and it's practically all they have left.

157 I would definitely support a Cain/Rubio  ticket too!

158 I've come to this thread late4 but:  I don't remember Perry talking about what he'd do about illegal immigration if he were President.  I remember Perry talking about what he, and the Texas legislature, did in the face of illegal immigration that the Feds refused to do anything about.  What did I miss?

159 I find it amazing how easily most folks are duped by some rigged contest that is no where even close to representative of anything other than the fact that your system is rigged. You don't have a democracy -- you have an oligarchy.

160 I support anyone and Rubio as well.  There are a couple of other combo's that I am willing to support as well.  I would even be willing to put Newt on the undercard.  We need to get serious about throwing the Joker out, so we need to build a team that not only we can support but will put the Joker out of office.

If everyone can quit complaining and tearing each other apart, we could start focusing on the real goal and compare the team against the Joker.  It becomes pretty damn easy to show how things can be done better than a marxist. Instead of f&%cking around tearing each other apart, we need to have the team, support the hell out of them, and settle on policies that stand in stark contrast to the Joker. 

161 While I wouldn't put it quite the way TrueNorthist just did, I would say that I am a bit surprised at all the attention being given to something that is just a state party fundraising event.  24/7 news cycle and a slow news day, I guess.

Really...1000 people voted for Herman Cain yesterday.  Big deal.  Actually, since you could vote more than once if you bought another ballot, it may not even have been a thousand people. 

To assert that this means anything about Cain's viability as a candidate is just reading too much into a very small and unimportant event.

162 Romney/Cain...they win 49 states.

163 Sounds like some of you need to read up on the Fair Tax.

164 164 Romney/Cain...they win 49 states.

Posted by: cleaningmygun at September 25, 2011 04:24 PM (PnfND)

I could actually see that, if the purist were willing to accept Romney at the top of the ticket.  Perry/Rubio would also sell really well.  Perry/Christie? Right/Left with a true bulldog on the undercard.  Romney would need a solid conservative to even have a pray with the hard right.

165 THERE IS NO SAL. ONLY ZUUL

166 Republicans are stupid racists. Democrats are slicker racists.

Posted by: Sal at September 25, 2011 04:33 PM (AQWdH)

Really, so Herman Cain and his supporters are racists?  Tell me again how a sheep's bladders can prevent earthquakes.

167 RON PAUL! RON PAUL RON PAUL!

Dammit, we need to get the blimp inflated. Keep yelling! If we spam enough internetz, the 47 percent of the population will catch the ReLOVEution!!!!!

RON PAUL! RON PAUL! RON PAUL!

168 The best part of drew's posts are the comments.

169 What would Romney do about illegal immigration?  I don't think we can trust any of them to take the hard line because they wouldn't want to jeopardize ALL of the Hispanic voters. . .  cant' trust Romney on the Obamacare issue because , of course, he said in his book (later deleted for obvious reasons) that Romneycare could be implemented nationwide. Romney shouldn't even be an option . . . he is NOT really a Republican (I have seen no evidence that he has ever governed as a Republican so why should we trust him. . .Romney looks like another Scott Brown fiasco waiting to happen.. America can't afford that!

170 THERE IS NO SAL ONLY ZUUL

171 I get tired of hearing "you're all racist". If you don't subscribe to a 19th century concept like race, sort of hard to hold resentment based on that. Oh, and bye bye sal.

172 Senators and representatives need not apply for the job of president. Successful governors or combat proven generals only.

Sorry Michelle, Newt, Rick, Ron, Herman and, of course, Barack.

173 Obama being a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure has nothing to do with his competence.  It is his policies that are the problem.  His incompetence is the only thing holding the Republic together at the moment.

Yeah a lot of people voted for him due to pure racism or due to the cult of personality but his failure is ultimately due to the fact that leftism always fails and the further left you go the bigger the failure is.  All of these other things, including being a slick talker, are extraneous and are independent variables unrelated to the success or failure that comes from having the correct policies.

Cain can sell himself as the better alternative.  Not all black people are incompetent.  Not all of them believe in Jeremiah Wright more than they believe in Martin Luther King.  Not all of them believe that black people cannot compete if shorn of their excuses and incentives not to.  Not all black people are content to remain on the plantation and remain ignorant.  Not all black people hate America and harbor disdain and contempt for it in their hearts while benefiting from its largess.

But his best line of attack is that ANYONE pursuing Obama's policies would have failed just as grandly.  That way people can reconcile liking the stupid fuck we have for a president on a personal level while voting his ass out of office for being a man made disaster professionally.

174 Rick Perry is simply too weak minded to be running for president. I don't mean that he's a fool or incompetent. (And he would certainly be a more effective president than Obama.) But Perry thinks too slowly and sloppily. Worse, he hasn't even thought his positions out. He is hoping to win the nomination on image and record alone. But those aren't sufficient. Especially because he inherited a governorship in Republican state that was already thriving. There's no reason to believe he did anything but ride the ascension. Granted, he didn't screw things up, and that counts. But just not being a screw up doesn't qualify anyone for the nomination. We want to see where the man has been tested. And in addition to that, he needs to consistently make compelling arguments as to why he should be trusted to defeat Obama and go on to run the U.S. presidency. But the debates have repeatedly shown that he is incapable of making those kinds of arguments. He has been exposed as being a weak candidate. We don't need to run weakness against a politically vulnerable incumbent. Obama stinks at running the country, but he will tear Perry up in the presidential debates. We do not need to take this risk based on the fantasy that Perry might prove out to be a solid conservative president if we only give him the chance and put him in the White House. Perry as the nominee will make it easier for Obama to find a way to win reelection. And even if there weren't severe reservations about his softness on illegal immigration or his decision to circumvent the democratic process by issuing executive orders mandating that private citizens take medicine, Perry as president may not be all that great. Listening to him speak, one doesn't get the since he has a clear and detailed vision of how he would handle the presidency or approach the nation's problems. All he can do is point at Texas (which was doing just fine when he took over) and effectively say, "I'll make everything just like Texas." That's a poor argument. And we'd be taking a hell of flier on him.

Unfortunately, I think he is likely to win the nomination because he is so strongly favored by the southern states and the evangelical vote. But if there's anyway we could turn Obama's chances for reelection from extremely vulnerable to reasonably competitive, it would be by nominating Perry. 

175 He was president of the Kansas Fed so he isn't exactly a novice to government.

176 I agree with Sockpuppet in #11: "lack of experience" is waaaay down on the list of Obummer's defects. It's his poisonous ideology coupled to an apparently bottomless malice towards America as we know her.

AND the ideal from the founding of our Republic was NEVER to have "professional politicians" -- au contraire! Citizen soldiers, citizen politicians, who would serve our nation in their turn, and then, like the Father of our country, George Washington, would leave office honorably.

Remember that? Worked ever so much better than these career knife-fighters do.

177 Herman Cain's wiki entry.

Bo wasn't exactly a political novice, he was a sitting senator.  People felt he had the right education and the right charisma and he said all the things people were ready to hear like getting rid of the corruption which is rampant inside of politics inside and outside the beltway.  Problem is, because he was a political insider, he failed.

What is so attractive about Cain is he has all the right stuff minus the beltway insider or any political insider status.  He's one of us.  People want to elect one of us.  They are tired of people who have favors to repay in both parties.  They are tired of people who think they can play the game and win "for the people" in both parties.  They are insiders, there are too many ties, they are doomed to failure as the model is broken.

I've always said he's impressive.  A couple of people on here have said he's impressive.  Cause well, he's impressive.  I think people are starting to think that he can use all his experience in business and mathematics and actually fix things.  Moreover, though, people are believing that if he can't fix something that he's not the type to just ignore, instead he's the type who will find the people who can fix it and admit he needs their help.  There is something wholly charming and attractive about a leader and herman cain is one.

178

Ace, I started to write a post responding to this, but other work intruded and I didn't get around to finishing it. Now I'm thinking, "Why do a whole post, when I can just put my thoughts in the comments?"

YOU GOT PUNKED, ACE.

Plain and simple: All those smart guys who told you Rick Perry was the Real Deal like Evander Holyfield? They were wrong. Perry's weaknesses and vulnerabilities were well-known, even to Texans and Republican operatives who generally admired him, and one of the things that they specifically warned me about was that Perry wasn't such a great public speaker. Some of the attacks on him were unfair, but his big debate blunder -- telling conservatives "you have no heart" -- was an unforced error for which he alone was responsible.

What went wrong with the Perry campaign can't be blamed on Michelle Malkin, Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Herman Cain or anyone else but Rick Perry. And so it does no good to diss them as if they were reponsible, now that the once-vaunted Texas Front-Runner Bandwagon Juggernaut has taken a detour to Fred Thompsonville.

Stigmatizing Cain as "the Howard Dean of this cycle," and suggesting that Romney is now inevitable -- simply because you're butt-hurt over Perry's Hindenburg-at-Lakehurst implosion -- is defeatism. Both Cain and Santorum have run low-budget campaigns to date, so they aren't staggering under the kind of money issues that crushed T-Paw, crippled Gingrich and now are threatening Bachmann's viability. Gingrich is going to keep showing up at debates, but if Bachmann quits, and if we could give the brush to Huntsman and Gary Johnson, a debate field reduced to six candidates might clarify the alternatives more clearly.

There are still more than four months to go before the Feb. 6 Iowa caucuses, and the rules changes (no winner-take-all primaries in March) will extend the contest into April. So there is still a fair chance that one of the current candidates could emerge as a consensus conservative alternative to Romney. And there is also a slim chance -- very slim, actually -- that a long back-and-forth struggle could result in delegates being spread around in such a way that Romney arrives at Tampa next August with less than a first-ballot majority. A "brokered convention" scenario is quite unlikely, but it can't be ruled out, and so digging in for a long war of attrition is a much better idea than surrendering to forebodings of despair so early in the campaign season.

Anyway: Go back and figure out which smart guys persuaded you that Perry was a lead-pipe cinch. Write down their names on a list, and add a note never to trust those dumbasses again.

179 Is this the "All Mitt All The Time" channel?  Just askin'.

180 Not even Michael Jordan won a championship in his rookie year. But Magic Johnson did.

181 We all want someone who is outside the party establishment. We all want a principled conservative. Well we have one, and all the rank and file can do is utter things like, "Well I like him, but I don't think he can win..... blah blah, I'll settle for the RINO" Has anyone ever thought this sort of crap is a self fulfilling prophecy? Cain just scored a huge achievement and all we can talk about is how Cain can't win. Ok, let's settle for Romney and his RINO tendencies, or let's settle for Perry and his Bush-esque immigration policy..............OR START TALKING ABOUT HERMAN CAIN AS IF HE CAN WIN AND WILL WIN IF WE WILL JUST SUPPORT HIM Good grief, and we wonder why our candidates are always RINOS who talk a mean game in the primary and then go squishy later. Cain don't owe the party a damn thing, and that's one thing I like about him most. He won't owe anyone favors when he gets to DC. I'm pretty sure at his age he isn't worried about pissing of Boehner or McConnell either.

182 Another added bonus if we nominate Cain, all of those squishes that voted for Obama to feel good about themselves can throw Obama out by voting in the 2nd black president of the United States.

183 "Unless or until Romney says that he will repeal ObamaCare, I cannot take him seriously as a conservative leader."

As Reggie said, he has promised it, and moreover, I believe he is genuine about it (he does think it's a mess, and would seriously hinder the economic turnaround he has planned.)

Upon reading his platform I've decided he's conservative enough, and can probably be kept honest enough by pressure from the base. 

His Achilles heel is tendency to compromise with the left, but I think he's smart enough to realize that the US <> Massachusetts, so perhaps it wouldn't be that bad considering.

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