October 24, 2011
— Ace They're to debate, if I understand this right, only on entitlements, with one third of the debate given to each of the big three (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid).
“We initially wanted a forum with all of the candidates,” O’Sullivan says. “But when we heard Gingrich say he wanted a more serious debate, like the Lincoln–Douglas debates, we wanted to do that, especially since watching the recent superficial debates has been frustrating.”Organizing the event was relatively easy, he adds. “We had a relationship with Herman Cain. He spoke at our tea-party event six months ago. We contacted him, asking if he was interested in a Lincoln–Douglas debate on entitlements. Then we got in touch with Speaker Gingrich.”
As of yet no one is slated to broadcast it, but everything winds up on the internet.
Gingrich offered some advice to Cain recently -- that candidates should spend more time "knowing things."
Of course Gingrich would press this qualification, as he scores very well according to it.
But I think he's right. So does Mark Steyn, for what it's worth.
Although the advice about "knowing things" is general, he is speaking about Herman Cain specifically, and Cain's need to offer "deep answers" about the policy behind 9-9-9, rather than just offering up the slogan and talking points.
I wouldn't much like to go three hours toe-to-toe with Gingrich. Obviously the debate has big potential upside, and big potential downside, for Cain.
On the other hand, Gingrich's big thing lately is to be nice to his opponents.
Posted by: Ace at
12:35 PM
| Comments (334)
Post contains 278 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:37 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Cherry pi at October 24, 2011 12:37 PM (OhYCU)
If the Professor really goes after it, I expect him to make Cain look stupid.
But I don't think he will. I expect this to be more of an in-depth discussion than a debate per se.
Should be extremely interesting.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 12:37 PM (epBek)
Posted by: fluffy Sunbeam, itinerant drummer at October 24, 2011 12:38 PM (O6q63)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 12:38 PM (OBDWE)
Posted by: andycanuck at October 24, 2011 12:39 PM (OKhgI)
1) Only on the Interwebz.
2) Only on Entitlements.
3) Only a "non-serious" Candidate vs. the Flavor of the Week.
Give me the same thing with Romney/Cain, Perry/Cain, or Perry/Romney, and I might think it worthwhile.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:39 PM (8y9MW)
You know, I'm starting to think that Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: fluffy Sunbeam, itinerant drummer at October 24, 2011 12:39 PM (O6q63)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (jeLTI)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: mugiwara at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (FNWFO)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (OBDWE)
IMHO..... if they pull off a statesmen like exchange of ideas and avoid the acrimony..... they both might get good bumps in the standings.
Posted by: fixerupper at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (C8hzL)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 04:38 PM (OBDWE)
Ooh that hurt. Just like having your spouse leave you while you have cancer.
Posted by: Herm Cain, the first time Newt lands a body blow at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: USA at October 24, 2011 12:40 PM (6Cjut)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: bobbymike at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (xpx19)
* Candidate A speaks for 45 minutes.
* Candidate B speaks for one hour.
* Candidate A has a half-hour to rebut candidate B.
Lincoln and Douglas took turns being A and B, and agreed on the topic ahead of time.
If they can pull this off, even with greatly shortened time spans, it should be terrific. Especially since Newt, for all my reservations about the guy, is one terrific speaker, and Cain is no slouch with a stump speech.
Posted by: Louis XIV at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (VrNoa)
Of course not, their main man will not be on it.
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: fixerupper at October 24, 2011 04:40 PM (C8hzL)
I hope that is what this is. Neither guy benefits from slashing the other guy's tires. Not at this stage.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (pLTLS)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (jeLTI)
Oh, my bad it was wrassling that Abe loved so much. Maybe keep Newt and Cain from the Mountain Dew, um?
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at October 24, 2011 12:41 PM (1hM1d)
Posted by: t-bird at October 24, 2011 12:42 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 12:42 PM (Jd1fD)
Posted by: Waterhouse
Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice.
Posted by: Fap fap fap fap fap at October 24, 2011 12:42 PM (BbX1b)
I'm always nice before the murdering starts.
Posted by: Newt Gingrich at October 24, 2011 12:42 PM (L8TIZ)
Posted by: J at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (3tEVR)
Posted by: The 99%, who work for a living and have better ways to spend their time at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (f8XyF)
Cain & Gingrich differ greatly on entitlements?
Probably not, ya? So how good can their debate be?
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (sqkOB)
Posted by: Huntsman at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (ieDPL)
His opponents, or Rick Perry? I just started Fed Up! and the forward is by Gingrich. I'm wondering if Gingrich really is trying to be a stalking-horse for Perry.
Perry/Gingrich 2012. That would be pretty awesome.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (8y9MW)
/taps foot waiting for nudie pics of Winona Ryder
I drove a Ryder truck through Winona, MN while pantless. Want me to upload pictures of that?
Posted by: fluffy Sunbeam, itinerant drummer at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (O6q63)
Posted by: Herm Cain, the first time Newt lands a body blow at October 24, 2011 04:40 PM (FkKjr)
Herm, I'll donate $50 if you say it. Hell, I'll buy a book too.
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 12:43 PM (OBDWE)
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 24, 2011 12:44 PM (ze29X)
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 12:44 PM (YdQQY)
Cain -Perry can watch and then have the remaining time will be a learning experience.
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 12:44 PM (h+qn8)
Herm, I'll donate $50 if you say it. Hell, I'll buy a book too.
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 04:43 PM (OBDWE)
You'll buy my book!? Hell, in that case, let's not forget Newt's support for Dede Scozzafava!
Posted by: Herm Cain at October 24, 2011 12:44 PM (FkKjr)
post title alteration:
Cain & Gingrich Set To Debate on November 5th In Lincoln/Douglas Format, Also known as Snoozfest 2011
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 24, 2011 12:45 PM (sqkOB)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 12:45 PM (i9cTu)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:45 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at October 24, 2011 12:45 PM (jeLTI)
Maybe Cain should start with Joe Perry.
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at October 24, 2011 12:46 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Newt Gingrich at October 24, 2011 12:46 PM (L8TIZ)
Posted by: OCBill at October 24, 2011 12:46 PM (YJvVE)
And would you rather have a president who once sat on a couch with Nancy Pelosi, or one that bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia?
+1
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:46 PM (yAor6)
To me this is a big waste of time. The one we need to see get really challenged on details like this is the presumptive nominee.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 12:46 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:47 PM (yAor6)
F that noise.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 04:45 PM (8y9MW)
As long as there are still Republicans to consider, I'm not settling for the Democrat.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 12:47 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Dang at October 24, 2011 12:47 PM (BbX1b)
As long as there are still Republicans to consider, I'm not settling for the Democrat.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 04:47 PM (GULKT)
+1
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:48 PM (yAor6)
Succession started a month after the election.
The war started a month after inauguration.
You can keep your own score to see how this pans out.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 12:48 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 12:48 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: That old timer with bad hearing at October 24, 2011 12:49 PM (BbX1b)
I'll give Cain credit for having guts but that's about it.
That's honestly not a slap at Cain. No one in the field, including Obama (especially Obama) has the chops to keep up with Newt in this forum.
Posted by: DrewM. at October 24, 2011 12:49 PM (WNzUA)
did Gingrich come up with this idea? he may be baiting Cain
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:50 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: The Choir at October 24, 2011 12:50 PM (OBDWE)
So... more evidence, if it can be called that.
Imagine this scenario: Cain v Gingrich- and Gingrich absolutely demolishes Cain (because, let's face it, if he decides to do so, Cain can't stop him). Cain slumps in the poles. However, before Newt can gain any momentum, other candidates (likely Cain, frankly) come out with adds about "Right Wing Social Engineering" and "sharing a couch with Nancy Pelosi." So Newt doesn't get a huge boost.
That benefits Rick Perry.
Now, that's a little too Machiavellian for my tastes, but that doesn't mean something like it isn't the plan.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:50 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 24, 2011 04:49 PM (sqkOB)
+1
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:50 PM (yAor6)
Romney is the one who needs to do an in-depth debate on entitlement reforms since he's the one who's got issues with calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme.
To me this is a big waste of time. The one we need to see get really challenged on details like this is the presumptive nominee.
Too right. Romney's feet need held to the fire. If we're stuck with him, we need him forced to make some commitments on entitlements.
Golly, our slate sucks.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 12:50 PM (epBek)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 12:51 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Soothsayer at October 24, 2011 04:50 PM (sqkOB)
nope he grew it when a little girl told him he'd look better with one when he took office as President
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:51 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 24, 2011 12:51 PM (xOy1A)
Posted by: toby928â„¢ at October 24, 2011 12:51 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (8y9MW)
Yes, and its name was "Mary."
Posted by: angler at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (SwjAj)
Or, you guys can just keep fucking me and vote for the guys who "know things", whatever that means.
Posted by: The Chicken at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (5c5Gy)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (yAor6)
this would be a good debate to watch if one of them would take the correct position and advocate for the phase out of ALL federal entitlement programs.
something like this:
"the Welfare State will never die as long as we accept the idea that the government has any business providing a "safety net".......... safety nets are for circus performers and children, when you force adults into a "safety-netted" system they cease to be adults and become children."
and that my friends is "the truth that shall not be spoken" by any of the Ruling Class, it is in fact a benchmark of who is and who isn't "Ruling Class" (or Ruling Class butt-kisser)
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at October 24, 2011 12:52 PM (QKKT0)
One thing the TP is not going to do. Help Romney win the nom.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 12:53 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 04:50 PM (8y9MW)
Polish people are hardly an influential voting bloc.
Posted by: J at October 24, 2011 12:53 PM (3tEVR)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 12:53 PM (i9cTu)
Posted by: Herman Cain at October 24, 2011 12:53 PM (L8TIZ)
Posted by: Alisa at October 24, 2011 12:53 PM (fp5JO)
Darn AoSHQ and the commentors' penchant for pointing out typos!
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (8y9MW)
Tag team cage match! Have Bachman wear a skimpy little Princess Leia outfit. You know the one. Yessssss.
Posted by: That old timer with bad hearing at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (BbX1b)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (UNB7o)
Which is a good thing.
Posted by: Barbarian at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (EL+OC)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (RD7QR)
65 A gladiator style "debate" would be more cool.
And more entertaining. ...Especially if they're wearing leather kilts.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 12:54 PM (Jd1fD)
Presumably the difference would be in their specific plans. Which is just suggests even more that Cain is completely out of his league in this one.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:55 PM (8y9MW)
O/T but funny....
I have a lib brother and in a text message I refereed to the president as SCOAMF.
When pressed.... I explained that is an acronym for Supreme Commander of Amercias Military Forces.
He has taken to referring to the president as SCOAMF on FB, texts and twitter.
Im in Dutch somebody clues him in...... ;-)
Posted by: fixerupper at October 24, 2011 12:55 PM (C8hzL)
So, when's your much ballyhooed primary candidate forum scheduled to happen?
Maybe all those candidates slobbering at the bit to talk at your party can spend a couple of seconds each on important topics, such as Coke or Pepsi.
<shakes head> other people's children </shakes head>
Posted by: Troll Feeder at October 24, 2011 12:56 PM (K0Hla)
Debates on a Saturday are sure to be a major draw. Its not like people are spending the day watching anything else on a Saturday afternoon/evening in the middle of fall.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 12:56 PM (GULKT)
Woul it not be better if the two just talked about entitlements in depth and discuss differences in thought, if any?
Posted by: Alisa at October 24, 2011 04:53 PM (fp5JO)
they will both be on both sides of the issue, which means both for the status quo, how to "fix" it, save it, enshrine it forever and ever amen.
watch and tell me after if i'm wrong.
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 12:56 PM (m6OUa)
Lincoln responding to the charge of being two-faced: "If I had two faces do you think I would choose to use this one?"
I like Lincoln despite him ignoring both the words and the intent of the Constitution during the Yankee War.
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 12:56 PM (OBDWE)
Posted by: jeff talbut at October 24, 2011 12:56 PM (FY7aO)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (xOy1A)
Let's have a series of these, Gingrich-v-Cain, Perry-v-Romney, Huntsman-v-Santorum, Paul-v-Bachmann.
Georgia VS Georgia, Supposed RINO VS Probable RINO, Dick Vs Dick, & Nut Vs Nut
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (yAor6)
No, he grew it after being elected President at the urging of a young girl. The Lincoln-Douglas debates were involved in running for office in IL. Lincoln lost BTW.
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (YdQQY)
And would you rather have a president who once sat on a couch with Nancy Pelosi, or one that bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia?
+1
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 04:46 PM (yAor6)
C. None of the Above
Why the push to once more argue that we must vote for the slightly less of two evils, vice someone who might actualy fix somthing?
Posted by: Romeo13 at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (NtXW4)
So you're saying this whole debate is pointless...
Posted by: innominatus at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (tq6K2)
Since this is a Lincoln/Douglas style debate will Cain and Gingrich be required to wear stovepipe hats?
Posted by: YIKES! at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (70TBD)
Forget the thread, fixerupper wins teh interwebz.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (8y9MW)
It could also be an interesting look at a Cain-Gingrich or vice-versa ticket.
Posted by: Iblis at October 24, 2011 12:57 PM (9221z)
Posted by: HawtConservativeMan at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 04:53 PM (i9cTu)
The guy's job was Speaker of the House and he's spent years on the lecture circuit. He's a debater by trade. It's like challenging Chuck Norris to a roundhouse kicking contest and thinking he'll lose because he's overconfident.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (FkKjr)
Dukakis is running as a Mormon, Perry is a babbling crony-capitalist clown, Gingrich is a windy windbag, Cain votes present on foreign policy and WTF on taxes, only Ron Paul the prune-faced Czar of Crazydom has offered a remotely plausible budget plan . . .
Apparently the Westboro Baptists are the true religion after all. We're all homos now, and God Hates Fags.
Pass me the tardasil.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (epBek)
I'm too pessimistic at this point to imagine that is the plan, but it's hard to envision a scenario where this boosts Romney, except that he manages to avoid scrutiny again.
He's starting to remind me of Charles Durning's character in Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: That old timer with bad hearing at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (BbX1b)
Posted by: toby928â„¢ at October 24, 2011 12:58 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (epBek)
Posted by: bebesboobsdestroy at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (lqwoU)
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (YdQQY)
83 I guess this is an audition for the VP slot.
Makes you wonder doesn't it. ....Perry was the one who named these two as his picks for VP out of the lineup, if he could somehow 'mate them up'.
An image that I will be trying to avoid visualizing during this debate.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (Jd1fD)
O/T but funny....
I have a lib brother,,,
If he finds out, be on the lookout for white powder wafting from your holiday packages.
Posted by: Barbarian at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (EL+OC)
Lincoln responding to the charge of being two-faced: "If I had two faces do you think I would choose to use this one?"
I like Lincoln despite him ignoring both the words and the intent of the Constitution during the Yankee War.
Posted by: Mr. Dave at October 24, 2011 04:56 PM (OBDWE)
I like the south despite the fact they won't get over the Civil War
we're even 
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 12:59 PM (yAor6)
If you read the article, the organizers were inspired by Newt's comment and had a relationship with Cain. It's a two-man debate. Who says the others were asked to participate?
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:00 PM (5H6zj)
65 A gladiator style "debate" would be more cool.
And more entertaining. ...Especially if they're wearing leather kilts.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 04:54 PM (Jd1fD)
Newt, and Cain, in leather Kilts? sorry... but its just plain evil to put that mental picture into someones head.
Posted by: Romeo13 at October 24, 2011 01:00 PM (NtXW4)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:01 PM (yAor6)
If I was running I would say something along those lines, but I would add that government should aid serious hard luck cases, and we would easily have the money if we instead of paying millions and millions in aid to shitholes around the world to keep them on our side we just conquer the fuckers and stick a United States of Earth flag there.
probably would scare people, but fuck it would be fun to say that.
Posted by: Berserker at October 24, 2011 01:01 PM (FMbng)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:03 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: jd at October 24, 2011 01:03 PM (ROXo4)
Posted by: HawtConservativeMan at October 24, 2011 01:03 PM (GvYeG)
I wouldn't even add that part. How about: "The Federal Government has no business in helping one person- no matter their perceived disadvantage- at the expense of another. If the States wish to create "social safety nets" so be it, but that is not something the Federal Government should be doing.
Of course, I don't think I'd get any actual votes, but it would be really, really fun to say.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:04 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 01:04 PM (RD7QR)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:04 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: jd at October 24, 2011 05:03 PM (ROXo4)
Cain thinks he can win, Gingrich is definetly angling for a VP spot
Bachmann has sold her soul to Mitt
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:04 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: HawtConservativeMan at October 24, 2011 01:04 PM (GvYeG)
Obviously, this can only help Rick Perry.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 24, 2011 01:05 PM (46U7o)
Because it's only a kilt when a guy wears one. Otherwise it's just a (plaid) skirt.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:05 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 01:05 PM (RD7QR)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:06 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 05:03 PM (yAor6)
I would vote for either one over the SCOAMF.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:06 PM (UNB7o)
But as to the format, more please. Good on Gingrich-Cain for getting serious and actually taking risks by leading.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 24, 2011 01:06 PM (REXkU)
I have a hard time envisioning Newt on a Romney ticket and Cain won't be on a Perry ticket. Even if Newt likes Mitt, I would think most advisers would not recommend those two together because each one oozes inauthenticity.
Cain is making a mistake doing this, imho, because he will lose and then Romney won't pick him as VP should he (Mitt) be the nominee.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:06 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 01:07 PM (RD7QR)
Probably true: Cain is just not that good, and Newt will scare off the Christian Right. Or, at least, those are both true enough statements to make the Presidential Race a contest. Anyone else hands Obama his rear-end in the general. Well, maybe not Bachman.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:07 PM (8y9MW)
I would vote for either one over the SCOAMF.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 05:06 PM (UNB7o)
i'd vote for a twinkie over SCOAMF
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:07 PM (yAor6)
Posted by: Live Free Or Die at October 24, 2011 01:07 PM (nK9TN)
Jon, I didn't want to say anything earlier, but I have reason to believe your partner on the ticket is an unholy abomination. And a narcoleptic.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:07 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 04:58 PM (5H6zj)
Romney has always struck me that way....
ooo, i love to dance a little two-step and lead the people on...
(and as soon as I started digging into Perry's record, i feel the same way about him)
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 01:08 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: Berserker at October 24, 2011 05:01 PM (FMbng)
Hear ya...
Energy Policy? Create a North American Energy Pact, with Canada, US, Mexico, and Central America... where we drill drill drill, and put tarifs on any energy imported INTO the Pact...
US oil does NOT cost $100 to be produced... we are paying it because OPEC has for years been pricefixing... Oil is NOT a free market commodity, so why do we pretend like it is one?
Oh, and open the Nuc Waste Repository, and build some F'n Nuc Plants.. use the Navy designs which are well tested and prooven to work... AND that we already have the facilities to manufacture... and repeal the STUPID can't reprocess nuc waste law... we're the only ones who handcuff ourselves that way...
Posted by: Romeo13 at October 24, 2011 01:08 PM (NtXW4)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:08 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 01:09 PM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Berserker at October 24, 2011 01:10 PM (FMbng)
Other Michelle, fixerupper.
Dammit......that's what I get for skimming......
Waste of a good line there....
Posted by: fixerupper at October 24, 2011 01:10 PM (C8hzL)
Posted by: J at October 24, 2011 04:43 PM
IMO, Ace has just about decided to hand the Coveted AoSHQ Endorsement to one of these two.
He seems certain neither Cain nor Perry can achieve the level of perfection he demands from a candidate, and (IIRC) has not been too keen on exposing The Newt or Mutt Romney to the kind of intense scrutiny that Perry, Cain, and Palin received here.
I'm biased, so the slams at Saint Sarah didn't bother me at all. But if we're going to have word-by-word dissections of the two men who strike me as most likely to not only talk a conservative line but actually advance it (The Newt will sit on his fat ass and deliver lectures, Romney will change principles faster than he changes his undies) while the the mainstream dudes skate, I've gotta say Ace has gone all in for the establishment Repubs.
Posted by: MrScribbler at October 24, 2011 01:10 PM (YjjrR)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:11 PM (UNB7o)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 24, 2011 01:11 PM (L8TIZ)
Huh? Where, except the comments, is Rick Perry even mentioned? Or is not fawning over the current flavor of the week considering "sucking on Perry's diminished knob?"
At least Polynikes admits he's a Romnian.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:11 PM (8y9MW)
Cain is making a mistake doing this, imho, because he will lose and then Romney won't pick him as VP should he (Mitt) be the nominee.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 05:06 PM (5H6zj)
I think Cain is deluded if he thinks Romney will really pick him. Expect Romney to try to pick someone like him, a squishy northeastern Republican. He'll choose Christie, thinking that because people have liked his direct approach that will overcome the policy issues.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 01:11 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: phoenixgirl on the road at October 24, 2011 01:12 PM (NcJ3b)
Wonder if I can get tickets... Except I think I'm busy that afternoon. Darn it.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:12 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 05:11 PM (GULKT)
if Romney picks a RINOesque VP all the talk i've done of him as a slick good campaigner will go out the window
and add Bachmann w/ Cain on that list. She's sold her soul to Romney...that or she and Perry have a bad past w/ each other no one knows about
Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez, Formerly YRM, Who Supports The Ban Of Curious at October 24, 2011 01:13 PM (yAor6)
Oh I like that, the Opeckers can have that great port-a-john dubbed the middle east, and we can keep this part of the planet.
Posted by: Berserker at October 24, 2011 01:13 PM (FMbng)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 01:14 PM (i9cTu)
I think Cain is deluded if he thinks Romney will really pick him. Expect Romney to try to pick someone like him, a squishy northeastern Republican. He'll choose Christie, thinking that because people have liked his direct approach that will overcome the policy issues.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 05:11 PM (GULKT)
No, Romney will pick somebody who is a true-red conservative. Like McCain, he has a base problem.
Posted by: AmishDude at October 24, 2011 01:14 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: HawtConservativeMan at October 24, 2011 01:14 PM (GvYeG)
144"the Welfare State will never die as long as we accept the idea that the government has any business providing a "safety net".......... safety nets are for circus performers and children, when you force adults into a "safety-netted" system they cease to be adults and become children."
If I was running I would say something along those lines, but I would add that government should aid serious hard luck cases,
no, no exceptions, there can't be ANY exceptions or in no time at all everyone is an exception.
there is no such thing as "reasonable" safety net provided by the government, that is the incrementalism of the Left talking (and it is extremely subtle, extremely attractive and extremely addictive, i know i was mezmerizied by it for years.)
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 01:14 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 05:09 PM (RD7QR)
Joe Biden lacks the mental acumen to eat anything that isn't ground into paste for him.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:14 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 01:15 PM (RD7QR)
No. Expect Romney (who really is a pretty polished politician) to pick someone who soothes the base. Remember, if he wins, it'll be because those opposed to him couldn't consolidate early enough. The majority of Republicans will be unhappy with their nominee. He'll need another Sarah Palin (not mismanaged and left out to dry, this time) to assuage the fears of the base.
If he doubles-down on the NE Republican Squish, thing, look for a 3rd Party candidate for real. And look for a lot of Republicans to go that way in the General.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:15 PM (8y9MW)
uh oh , putting in my ear plugs, and throwing you a helmet.
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 01:15 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: John Breckenridge at October 24, 2011 01:15 PM (M3mVf)
I'd let him off of that one if he'd only show us he knows when to start doing.
Haven't seen that yet.
Posted by: MrScribbler at October 24, 2011 01:16 PM (YjjrR)
Posted by: Vote joncelli/Cthulhu 2012 at October 24, 2011 05:15 PM (RD7QR)
You know how bad that would smell after a few hours of heat?
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 01:17 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: toby928™ at October 24, 2011 05:17 PM (evdj2)
Weren't those Qadaffy's last words?
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:19 PM (UNB7o)
Someone needs to metaphorically whack the Mormon Wonder Boy off the ticket for good. I'm guessing Newt could do it.
Posted by: shibumi at October 24, 2011 01:20 PM (z63Tr)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 05:14 PM (i9cTu)
Gingrich has torn more than a few guys to shreds in debates. And Herm Cain ain't no MMA guy.
And who's a better debater in the field (including Soetero)? Mitt? It is to laugh.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:20 PM (FkKjr)
196 I think the kilt movement is picking up steam!
Down with pants! Up with Kilts! wait ...
------
Aye! ...And pole tosses.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 01:20 PM (Jd1fD)
No. Expect Romney (who really is a pretty polished politician) to pick someone who soothes the base. Remember, if he wins, it'll be because those opposed to him couldn't consolidate early enough. The majority of Republicans will be unhappy with their nominee. He'll need another Sarah Palin (not mismanaged and left out to dry, this time) to assuage the fears of the base.
If he doubles-down on the NE Republican Squish, thing, look for a 3rd Party candidate for real. And look for a lot of Republicans to go that way in the General.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:15 PM (8y9MW)
I have no faith in Romney doing anything to put the base at ease. He's not doing it now during the primaries, why expect him to actually do it for the general.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 01:20 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 01:20 PM (h+qn8)
I saw a picture of the bloody ass-poking on one of the British paper's websites last night so I guess it's real enough.
Posted by: toby928â„¢ at October 24, 2011 01:22 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:23 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 05:15 PM
I'm not dissing Ace, just disagreeing with him. I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons for the bloggy types to go with these dudes, and all said reasons seem perfectly logical to them.
But it bugs me no end that Ace and the cob-loggers, the preppies at NRO and "Poppin' Fresh" all seem to feel the need to go after Cain and Perry for stuff I consider marginally important, if important at all. Especially since none of them will make much of an issue about Mutt's wandering principles and The Newt's apparent (to me, anyway) laziness.
I keep sayin' it's still Cain or Perry for me as of now, despite all the potshots from the bloggies. If I get the idea they don't have what it takes, I'll look at someone else.
And whoever the Repub non-Osama Obama turns out to be gets my vote. I'm not sittin' it out.
Posted by: MrScribbler at October 24, 2011 01:23 PM (YjjrR)
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 05:20 PM (h+qn
I saw it on AoSHQ, so it's got to be true.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:23 PM (UNB7o)
Posted by: toby928â„¢ at October 24, 2011 01:23 PM (evdj2)
^This.
And, frankly, I can't think of anyone as his VP who would make up for his deficiencies.
After the McCain-Palin mess (laying the blame squarely on McCain's people, at least during the campaign), I find it hard to believe many of us (who were motivated to give to McCain and work for him after he chose Palin) are going to be suckered again next time. Even Marco Rubio or Allen West wouldn't make me feel differently.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:23 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: HawtConservativeKiltMan at October 24, 2011 01:24 PM (GvYeG)
We already have per-approved Westinghouse AP-1000 designs so design isn't a problem. The major stumbling block is the damn laws that make it easy for eco-commies to sue and halt construction with series lawsuits. Laws that not only make it easy, but which also does not punish them for bullshit suits.
And the answer is NOT what the Obamanites did, make the federal government responsible for the cost of these lawsuits after a certain level is reached in delays (lawyer subsidy).
What needs to happen is to allow the eco-tards one lawsuit and make them responsible for all costs if they lose.
If we did that new plant would start blooming as soon as the economy started recovering.
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 01:24 PM (YdQQY)
206 203 you went there ... huh?
*slaps self*
Sorry. Couldn't resist. ....The thought of sweaty guys in kilts, struggling with their huge upright poles.
*slaps self, again* *harder*
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 01:25 PM (Jd1fD)
That's why Bush chose Cheney.
Posted by: Breaker19 at October 24, 2011 01:25 PM (ze29X)
Because of what I said. Right now, he seems to believe (and there is, unfortunately, some support for this) that he can win with a solid 25% or so. Once the Primaries are over, though, he knows he needs his whole base, plus independents. He knows (or should) that independents plus his (personal, rather than Party) base are not enough.
If he doesn't, and he wins the nomination anyway, we're completely doomed, and the only thing left for Conservatives will be ammunition, non-perishables, and medical supplies.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:26 PM (8y9MW)
Expect Romney to try to pick someone like him, a squishy northeastern Republican. He'll choose Christie.
Not a chance. Like most androids, Romney is actually pretty smart.
He'll pick somebody that challenges a demographic or state that Obama can't afford to lose, or he'll pick somebody to placate the base, or preferably both. Rubio, Cain, Rubio, Bachmann, Rubio, people like that.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 01:26 PM (epBek)
Posted by: HawtConservativeKiltMan at October 24, 2011 01:27 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: Serious Cat at October 24, 2011 01:28 PM (Ku3h3)
What am I not seeing here?
Posted by: Arms Merchant at October 24, 2011 01:29 PM (VKRmb)
taking time to torture, well just makes them look like psychopaths .
they still have one of his kids eh?
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 01:29 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 01:29 PM (i9cTu)
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 01:30 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: HawtConservativeKiltMan at October 24, 2011 01:31 PM (GvYeG)
That's not his strategy. His strategy will be to have his people browbeat the base into voting for him, saying that he's better than Barry. There won't be any olive branches. It will be him or the highway, because he knows the base will show up for him.
Mitt's a northeastern squish. They're used to having conservatives over a barrel and forced to voting for them. They believe Republican ideals aren't popular, so they run from them in the general election. His goal will be independents.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:31 PM (FkKjr)
I'd be interested in the "rules" of the debate. I have a feeling that it is setup to be in Cain's wheelhouse. It's hard to imagine that it will truly be a "debate" because how much can they disagree on entitlements?
That said, Herman Cain has shown that he is WAY to unprepared to be president. I can't stand Romney, but if it comes down to him and Cain, I would have to pull the lever for Romney. At least Romney is willing to do the necessary homework to be president. Cain not only has shown on numerous occasions he doesn't have any idea what he is talking about outside of 9-9-9 (and even then he only knows enough to claim his plan is being misconstrued and people should go to his website, rather than offering an immediate and cogent defense), but he also seems to be completely unbothered by how little he knows.
At this point, Perry isn't a dream come true, but he's the only serious candidate that doesn't scare the heck out of me. (Newt doesn't either, but I think Newt is only running for the spot on the debate stage, which is fine. Also, he brings too much personal baggage to lead a ticket.)
Posted by: Boone at October 24, 2011 01:31 PM (Jl3Mu)
Possibly.
Though, possibly, it's like (using Iron Chef, since someone else brought it up) it's like choosing Morimoto as the Iron Chef: you're virtually certain you're going to lose, but a) you're going to lose to the best b) if you keep it close, you might get some credit for that, and c) there's a slim chance you might win.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:32 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: The Muslim Bro-hood at October 24, 2011 01:32 PM (FcR7P)
221 Caber tossing. ...Yes of course.
William Wallace had a good use for the long pointy ones too, didn't he. I think he'd be all for it.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 01:32 PM (Jd1fD)
Posted by: willow-generic republican at October 24, 2011 05:30 PM (h+qn
Nope. They wanted to know where he was keeping his personal bodyguards.....or his clandestine herd of goats.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:32 PM (UNB7o)
AllenG,
If he is willing to run as the guy who brought Obamacare-lite to Massachusetts (rather than as the guy who saw it up close and found that it was inherently flawed), then it seems to me that he is more concerned with adhering to some envisioned 'principle' of his than to winning.
For example, I believe he really is bothered by the Ponzi scheme stuff, because he really sees himself as a moderate who can negotiate with terrorists Democrats.
So he'll ride that sinking centrism ship all the way to the end, just as McCain "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency" did.
We (ok, I) was fooled into thinking McCain was going to actually give weight to Palin's POV, but the way she was managed, it's clear it was purely a political calculation. Someone told him to pick a conservative woman and Palin was a good choice because she could speak authoritatively on Energy but was relatively unknown.
Romney might pick a conservative base type person, but it won't matter. And I really see him as picking someone more aligned with his centrist POV.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:33 PM (5H6zj)
If that's true (and, as much as I dislike him, I can't quite believe that just on assertion), then the Republican Party is doomed. A new party will have to arise, because no one will trust "national" republicans anymore.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:33 PM (8y9MW)
Yeap. I don't fall for that "Well let's balance the ticket because that will make the top of the ticket better and more likely to adopt my views since the VP is just like me" Hogwash. The VP in practice is a manikin. The onlt seat that really matters is the President's barring unforeseen tragedy. The Balancing Act is a magic trick for votes. Even as powerful as Cheney was under Bush, Bush was The Man and nothing anyone could say or do could change that fact.
The choice of VP as salve for those who must vote for someone they hate as President is a distraction.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 24, 2011 01:34 PM (REXkU)
Heh. Now go tell him to google it.
Posted by: Lady in Black at October 24, 2011 01:34 PM (ycuSb)
Yep.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:34 PM (5H6zj)
Let's be clear, here: I am not supporting Mitt Romney, and (barring a catastrophe wherein he is the Nominee AND Texas is in play) I will not vote for him- ever. I will vote Libertarian first, and R on all the down-ticket races.
That said, I don't believe he'll be quite that willing completely to alienate the entire base.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:36 PM (8y9MW)
224 That Cain would actually agree to a 3-hour one-on-one with the Newtster is a little bit worrying. Is Cain's judgment that poor?
What am I not seeing here?
I know. It's seems like a gruelling thing to sign up for. ....Maybe the lure of getting to reach all those Tea Party voters is too great to pass up?
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 01:36 PM (Jd1fD)
Posted by: t-bird at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (FcR7P)
If that's true (and, as much as I dislike him, I can't quite believe that just on assertion), then the Republican Party is doomed. A new party will have to arise, because no one will trust "national" republicans anymore.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:33 PM (8y9MW)
Who should trust them now? Its not going to surprise me if again the RNC has fundraising problems (though less than it did under Steele) while the actual candidate campaigns will be sitting pretty on cash.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:33 PM (8y9MW)
It's the way the MA GOP has operated for years. When you get mailings about Republican candidates from Democratic legislators saying, "Don't worry, this guy's as pro-choice as I am," you realize that the guy is only running as a Republican to pick up some conservative voters.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (FkKjr)
Posted by: true story at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (V4Pya)
224 That Cain would actually agree to a 3-hour one-on-one with the Newtster is a little bit worrying. Is Cain's judgment that poor?
What am I not seeing here?
I know. It's seems like a gruelling thing to sign up for. ....Maybe
the lure of getting to reach all those Tea Party voters is too great to
pass up?
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 05:36 PM (Jd1fD)
Both of these guys know that their future is on the speechifying and book-selling circuits.
Posted by: AmishDude at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (T0NGe)
It won't even be that. It'll be "Romney 2012: Or I'll take my ball and go home."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:37 PM (8y9MW)
You're mistaken. Mark Steyn has had unkind things to say about Rick Perry's colossally bad debate performances and has condemned his have-a-heart attitude toward illegal aliens, and so Mark Steyn has now been branded an Establishment RINO apostate.
Let's keep up here.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 24, 2011 01:38 PM (d3TgT)
Navy designs are extremely expensive. They are not practical nor necessary for a civilian power plant. They would be more cost prohibitive than using wind, solar, and unicorn farts.
There are plenty of good civilian designs. No need to use a military design.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 01:38 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:38 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 24, 2011 01:39 PM (ieDPL)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 05:38 PM (5H6zj)
Actually, this is him tacking right.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 01:40 PM (FkKjr)
I wasn't referring to the RNC, but to any republican on the National Stage. And there are some of those I'll still believe. If Romney wins this nomination, and then goes all Kamikaze for his Marxist-lite ideals, people will not even be able to trust the Jim DeMints and Allen Wests of the party. because they'll be expected to sell themselves out for the Presidential ticket.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:41 PM (8y9MW)
Seriously, I will say one thing about Cain. While I do not think he has the mental acuity for the presidency, he is not shy or timid about appearing anywhere and everywhere, notably the msm hostile territory he keeps agreeing to. He simply meets them head on with their gotchas and attempts to make him trip up. To agree to debate -- alone -- with Newt the Wonder Brain is ambitious, to say the least, on his part.
Listening to Newt debate is a thing of beauty. He is the Zeus of debaters.
Posted by: Lady in Black at October 24, 2011 01:41 PM (ycuSb)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:36 PM (8y9MW)
Considering that you were a vocal supporter of the lunatic 9/11 Truther candidate who ran against Rick Perry (irony!) in the 2010 TX primary, I believe you.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 24, 2011 01:42 PM (d3TgT)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:42 PM (8y9MW)
"Vote for me, serfs, because the alternative is worse" should be the GOP establishment battle cry.
They remind me of the student council members in high school that always ran because, "Well, we should be in charge, that's why!"
Posted by: Arms Merchant at October 24, 2011 01:43 PM (VKRmb)
AUSTIN – Gov. Rick Perry today announced several new key members of his campaign staff. Joe M. Allbaugh, Tony Fabrizio and Fred Maas will join the expanding Perry for president team as senior advisors to the campaign, while Curt Anderson, Jim Innocenzi and Nelson Warfield will serve on the campaign’s national media team. Stanton Anderson will operate as the congressional liaison for the campaign.
http://tinyurl.com/3zenylv
Names ring any bells for anyone?
Posted by: Tami-Cardinals! at October 24, 2011 01:43 PM (X6akg)
248.....Both of these guys know that their future is on the speechifying and book-selling circuits.
Good point. There will probably be book-signing tables set up in the lobby afterwards. .....I hope they will have stools set up at the podiums for them to sit down, I don't wish harm for either one of them. They're just not my number one choices for President.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 24, 2011 01:43 PM (Jd1fD)
Yep. And I still think, all-in-all, that she's more conservative than Rick. But I think Rick Perry is more conservative than the rest of the field, except maybe Santorum.
I won't debate she's crazy- she is crazy. But she's a Conservative who's crazy.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:44 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 01:46 PM (i9cTu)
What am I not seeing here?
If Cain is serious as a candidate, he has to be perceived as a serious thinker (and not just a marketer). If he can hold his ground one-on-one with Newt, that goes a long way towards establishing Cain as a substantively weighty candidate.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 01:47 PM (bjRNS)
I read that that trio got Rick Scott elected in Florida. I linked to it on an earlier thread. (Over at RedState iirc.)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:47 PM (5H6zj)
Exactly correct. Perry, for his warts, at least glommed on to the Tea Party early. Not as early as some, but early enough to say he isn't 100% pandering to the Right. Romney held out until he had to start including the rabble (since it was pre-primary time) from what I recall.
We're seeing the farthest Right Romney will ever be or create the illusion to be. Repeat: Ever. He is not a movement conservative.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 24, 2011 01:47 PM (REXkU)
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 01:48 PM (bjRNS)
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 01:49 PM (bjRNS)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 05:46 PM (i9cTu)
lots of people have lots of reasons not to like Romney, besides none of us are saying that we would like Romney to say what we want to hear, we would know that immediately as the lie it is... i just want him to go away, he does not represent us or our values.
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 01:50 PM (m6OUa)
You make the mistake of assuming that all anti-Romney sentiment is monolithic.
I think he's a sincere pro-business moderate Republican who thinks he'd be able to work with guys like Harry Reid. And I think he is sincerely wedded to Masscare, ethanol, gun control, and making only slight tweaks to the status quo on entitlements and tax policy.
He does have a record of changing positions, such as his utter pandering to the gay rights crowd over DADT repeal. But I don't think he believes that those things matter much. He thinks he can 'manage' the country out of the current crisis.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:51 PM (5H6zj)
resist we much people, resist we much.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 24, 2011 01:52 PM (xOy1A)
Azathoth/Nyarlathotep 2012
F* it, let's just get it over with.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 01:52 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: maddogg at October 24, 2011 01:52 PM (OlN4e)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 01:53 PM (i9cTu)
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 05:47 PM (5H6zj)
Thanks...I found it there. This is good news....
TheyÂ’ll be joined by Curt Anderson, who was with Team Romney in 2008. Anderson is close to Governor Bobby Jindal and, among my friends whether they like him or hate him, known to be one hell of a great debate coach and message guy.
Posted by: Tami-Cardinals! at October 24, 2011 01:53 PM (X6akg)
No. You're just not paying attention.
Romney is a flip-flopper who will say "anything" to get elected. This is A Very Bad Thing. There are, however, a very few exceptions to this. Foremost among those is RomneyCare- where he defends it as a success even today, when most sources I've seen (yes, including actual residents of MA) label it anything from (at best) a failure to (at worst) a catastrophe.
The problem is that he's both: He's flip-flopping where it doesn't really matter (and the problem there is that it makes him seem like his principles are non-existent) but he's intractable on the very, very few issues where a) there's room for a principled "realignment" and b) where the base really wants him to change positions.
In short: he's a Conservative of Convenience, not of Principle. We're done with Conservatives of Convenience.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:54 PM (8y9MW)
Yeah, but it's hard to imagine Cain being able to bring up those skeletons in this format of a debate.
I'm really not sure how the two differ on entitlements... but I am not all that interested in this match up.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 01:54 PM (5H6zj)
OT: 16 Year old who married B-List actor kicked out of pumpkin patch for being to risque. I know when I pick out a pumpkin for Halloween I always wear my stripper boots....and show my tits.
http://tinyurl.com/3klzog9
Posted by: mpfs at October 24, 2011 01:54 PM (iYbLN)
and never forget Newt endorsed and pushed Dede Scofflaw and then got all pissy when we came down like a ton of bricks on him.
fuck Newt, ya can't trust him.
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 01:54 PM (m6OUa)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:44 PM (8y9MW)
I'd rather vote for an inarticulate, somewhat crazy conservative than a well oiled, fine tuned RINO or leftist. (RINO's and leftists are inseperable, as far as I'm concerned.)
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 01:55 PM (UNB7o)
Posted by: Romney Voter at October 24, 2011 01:56 PM (7MFxV)
Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 24, 2011 05:53 PM (i9cTu)
nope, i just want a smaller, less powerful government and i don't just want to talk about it i want to do it, now!
the RINO's will never do it, they love their big gov. as much as the Dems
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 01:57 PM (m6OUa)
Then we got in touch with Speaker Gingrich.
I just can't stop laughing! Cain, what're you thinkin'?
Posted by: Ghost of Kim Novak Renowned Perrywinkly at October 24, 2011 01:57 PM (8DdAv)
'Us' would refer to people who don't like Romney- generally the Right Wing of the Republican party (that'd be most of us, btw).
'Values' would refer to actual Conservative First Principles like self-determination and self-government: things a person who says "I like mandates; mandates work" can't believe (not if he's being honest with that statement).
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:57 PM (8y9MW)
So you're saying you voted for a crazy lady who believes that "some very good questions have been raised in that regard, thereÂ’s some very good arguments and I think the American people have not seen all of the evidence there" regarding the question of whether the U.S. government knocked down the World Trade Center towers (as I recall, you doubled down on your support of her after she said this), because she was "more conservative than Rick".
Don't get me wrong -- I believe you had a problem with Rick Perry's conservative bona fides. A lot of Texans have been fatigued with Perry for many years, which is why he's always squeaked through his re-elections as the default choice of split fields when everyone else turned out to be a lot worse.
But you have a very strange definition of "conservative". Also kind of puts your absolutist "I'm voting Libertarian" threats in perspective, at least for me.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 24, 2011 01:58 PM (d3TgT)
F* it, let's just get it over with."
I was thinking Meteor/Volcano 2012, but yours is a good back-up plan. Maybe they can debate each other.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 24, 2011 01:58 PM (REXkU)
She is really, really crazy. For the record. Once she wasn't in the Texas spotlight anymore, she got worse. In some areas, anyway.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 01:59 PM (8y9MW)
incandescent light bulb ban
food labeling/salt bans
Planned Parenthood funding
PBS/NPR funding
marijuana legalization
prayer in schools
gay marriage
etc etc
It's not that those are the Big Issues, particularly nationally, but they are sort of gut issues. I would not expect to agree with any one of them 100%, but I'd like to see their one word answers without thinking or hemming or hawing.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 02:00 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: HawtConservativeKiltMan at October 24, 2011 02:00 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: A440Hz at October 24, 2011 02:01 PM (QxhpV)
incandescent light bulb ban
food labeling/salt bans
Planned Parenthood funding
PBS/NPR funding
marijuana legalization
prayer in schools
gay marriage
etc etc
It's not that those are the Big Issues, particularly nationally, but they are sort of gut issues. I would not expect to agree with any one of them 100%, but I'd like to see their one word answers without thinking or hemming or hawing.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 06:00 PM (5H6zj)
Romney would not be attending that debate.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 02:01 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 24, 2011 02:02 PM (L8TIZ)
OT: 16 Year old who married B-List actor kicked out of pumpkin patch for being to risque. I know when I pick out a pumpkin for Halloween I always wear my stripper boots....and show my tits.
So I went to check out the stripper boots and tits...
She's no teenager. What will her hands look like when she is "32"?
Posted by: fluffy Sunbeam, itinerant drummer at October 24, 2011 02:03 PM (O6q63)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 05:59 PM (8y9MW)
I did say "somewhat crazy". I wasn't really talking about her specifically. I was thinking "coyote killing while jogging" crazy.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 02:03 PM (UNB7o)
Can we split these into two issues? I like food labeling (it makes my life as a diabetic easier), but don't agree with salt bans.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 02:03 PM (bjRNS)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at October 24, 2011 02:03 PM (XE2Oo)
OT: 16 Year old who married B-List actor kicked out of pumpkin
patch for being to risque. I know when I pick out a pumpkin for
Halloween I always wear my stripper boots....and show my tits.
So I went to check out the stripper boots and tits...
She's no teenager. What will her hands look like when she is "32"?
Posted by: fluffy Sunbeam, itinerant drummerMy thoughts exactly. That "girl" looks like she has been dragged through the pumpkin patch a few times. IYKWIM.
Posted by: mpfs at October 24, 2011 02:04 PM (iYbLN)
Posted by: rdbrewer at October 24, 2011 02:04 PM (twWuS)
Posted by: Dr Spank at October 24, 2011 06:02 PM (L8TIZ)
I too am waiting for the anti-authority.
Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 24, 2011 02:05 PM (UNB7o)
Amend that to "jogging with my pansy little dog", and I might listen.
But coyotes? Coyotes need to know their place.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 02:05 PM (bjRNS)
I think he's a sincere pro-business moderate Republican
I think we can all agree with this.---
Yeah, but I think there's disagreement about whether or not being pro-business equates with being conservative.
To me growing up there were the Republicans who were that way because they wanted to protect the economic status quo under which they had done well (I guess those are Country Club Republicans) and there were Republicans who were that way based on core ideological beliefs (abortion, bussing (remember that?), affirmative action, law and order, national security). My family fell into the latter category. Hell, my dad was a social worker, yet he was (and is) one of the most conservative folks I knew.
I have never believed that being pro-business equated with being conservative. Similarly, I never bought the idea that we would defeat Communism by giving communist people economic goodies. You have to defeat it - totalitarianism - by shifting core values, not by showing people they'll have more goodies as Capitalists.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 02:06 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 02:06 PM (bjRNS)
That is the "polled" Republicans. Based on what we see here and at HA in the straw polls 90 to 95 percent of the conservative base hate him. And that 5% that support him may be those so-called "moderate-conservatives" that one of our Romneybots like to talk about.
This is why I say with confidence that if we have another McCain primary with him taking the nod with a "plurality" and shitty rules we will have another 4 years of Obama and most likely a new Party being born.
Posted by: Vic at October 24, 2011 02:06 PM (YdQQY)
Nothing not conservative about that statement. Just crazy. I'll also point out that, as Governor of Texas, she wouldn't have been able to do anything about it, so that stance (for that office) was a fairly minor issue for me.
Also- in my own defense- I didn't get to track down that full quote (+ context) until a little later. My own fault- yes, but there you are. I also always had some concerns about her (which I admitted at the time) that were largely mitigated by "she can't do that, anyway" like her desire to completely repeal the State Property tax. I'm not going to flinch from my support of Debra Medina in 2010. I proudly voted for Rick Perry in the General, and probably would have for Kay Bailey, too.
That said, yes, I'm fairly absolutist when it comes to people who have a fundamental difference with me regarding the relationship between the Government and the Governed. Anyone who believes in state-run healthcare with an individual mandate sees me as a subject to be (at best) cared-for or (at worst) controlled. I will not vote for that person if I have any other viable option.
If Romney is the nominee, and anything suggests that Texas will be a close race, I'll grit my teeth and vote Romney. But if that's not the case, he doesn't get my vote.
I think you'll find more than a few from Red States who agree with me.
But you have a very strange definition of "conservative".
I don't think so. I'm just willing to admit you can be Conservative, and still have some really dumb/insane ideas. As long as those ideas don't affect the job you're applying for, I'm willing to over-look them if the ideas that do affect that job are good enough.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 02:07 PM (8y9MW)
OK. I was mostly thinking of the onerous labeling requirements they put on restaurants these days.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 02:08 PM (5H6zj)
Agreed. "Pro-business" doesn't really describe which business.
Heck, Obama could be called "pro-business" if you limit it to GE and Solyndra.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 02:08 PM (bjRNS)
Posted by: Jellytoast at October 24, 2011 02:10 PM (FPJxD)
Cain: "Well, I wouldn't want my daughter to be one. But as long as they're not hurting anybody, I don't see what's wrong with it."
"Ya see, they're gonna try to trip me up with all those Lybians, and Labias. I know this game. I know plenty of people named Stan, but that doesn't mean I'd name a country after him. Ask me about mozzerella versus asiago."
Posted by: Max Power at October 24, 2011 02:10 PM (q177U)
Can we split these into two issues?
Well I personally think food labeling has gone far enough. No font package "Government certified healthy" check marks or stars like they are working on now. Just give me the FACTS about the food, on the back or side, not Government opinion about how good it is for me on the front.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 24, 2011 02:11 PM (0q2P7)
Rubio
Cain
Gingrich
That's my list for VP. I see no benefit in watching two of them tear each other down. Would also like to see Gingrich tear down Romney but (in this late hour in such troubled times) since it looks like he is going to be our nominee we certainly don't need to be making Obama's commercials for him!
Posted by: Shiggz undecided - weighing pros-cons-balls at October 24, 2011 02:12 PM (I9fXA)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at October 24, 2011 02:13 PM (mGnwL)
Posted by: Shiggz undecided - weighing pros-cons-balls at October 24, 2011 02:13 PM (I9fXA)
Yeah, but I think there's disagreement about whether or not being pro-business equates with being conservative.
To me growing up there were the Republicans who were that way because they wanted to protect the economic status quo under which they had done well (I guess those are Country Club Republicans) and there were Republicans who were that way based on core ideological beliefs (abortion, bussing (remember that?), affirmative action, law and order, national security). My family fell into the latter category. Hell, my dad was a social worker, yet he was (and is) one of the most conservative folks I knew.
I have never believed that being pro-business equated with being conservative. Similarly, I never bought the idea that we would defeat Communism by giving communist people economic goodies. You have to defeat it - totalitarianism - by shifting core values, not by showing people they'll have more goodies as Capitalists.
Posted by: Y-not at October 24, 2011 06:06 PM (5H6zj)
excellent point - Jeffery Immelt comes to mind right off the bat...
Posted by: shoey at October 24, 2011 02:14 PM (m6OUa)
That was my point: food labeling is a little more complicated than yes/no. Talking about what's "far enough" is a different question.
A salt ban, on the other hand, should be answered with "what are you thinking?"
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 24, 2011 02:14 PM (bjRNS)
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 02:15 PM (GULKT)
So, people who believe the government bombed the World Trade Center are acceptable candidates to run the largest states in the country, so long as they're not "able to do anything about it". This, you say, is the stuff of a capital-C Conservative.
Okay.
I guess the next question I'd have is, what about Rick Perry as of a year and a half ago was so unacceptable that you were willing to vote for a (rationalized) Truther to replace him as the party's nominee for governor, and what about him has changed since then to make him palatable enough to nominate for president?
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at October 24, 2011 02:16 PM (d3TgT)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at October 24, 2011 02:17 PM (mGnwL)
Some of you people really are dumb.
I don't fall for that "Well let's balance the ticket because that will make the top of the ticket better and more likely to adopt my views since the VP is just like me" Hogwash
OK, so you won't. So what? All that means is if Romney gets the nod, he won't bother appointing a successor that you like, and you'll probably still end up voting for the guy any way because Obama is that much worse.
In politics, if you can't be bought off, you get ignored. You also get bupkes.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 02:18 PM (epBek)
By the way, if your state isn't in play, you *definitely* should do a protest vote.
If conservative protest votes start getting into the percentile range, I guarantee you politicians will notice.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at October 24, 2011 02:21 PM (epBek)
Mitt is a T. Coddington Van Vorhees Republican - he is one because his father was. Also, as unlikely as beating Teddy Ker-Splash is as a Republican in MA, beating him in the Dem Primary in MA was even more unlikely.
I think he does want low taxes.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 24, 2011 02:24 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: Brian at October 24, 2011 02:30 PM (s5MwP)
I'm not kidding myself that I'm really getting anything, but you go right ahead. You're not getting "bought off"; you're getting suckered. I know I'm getting bupkes either way. The object is to opt for Not-Romney (or for Not-Other "unacceptable Presidential candidate") and not get sucked in to the "Well, he won't be as bad as X because we can count on VP Y." No, you can't count on VP Manikin (or his/her influence), so don't accede the point for expediency. Forget about VP. VP is a prop.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 24, 2011 02:31 PM (REXkU)
F that noise.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at October 24, 2011 04:45 PM (8y9MW)
As long as there are still Republicans to consider, I'm not settling for the Democrat.
Posted by: buzzion at October 24, 2011 04:47 PM (GULKT)
THREAD WINNER!!!!
Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at October 24, 2011 03:24 PM (F0o5k)
>>>Mitt's a northeastern squish. They're used to having conservatives over a barrel and forced to voting for them. They believe Republican ideals aren't popular, so they run from them in the general election. His goal will be independents.
This is rather revealing about your mindset -- how you gravitate towards the angrily irrational "ROMNEY WILL FUCK US OVER AT ANY COST!!" stuff despite every reason to think he'll pick a "base" choice for VP. I've got news for you: Romney won't need to go after Independents if he wins the nomination -- that's HIS appeal. He'll need to enthuse and get out the base.
It's pretty obvious that he's going to choose Marco Rubio, but -- and you heard it here first folks -- I think his dark horse choice may end up being a man who endorsed him in 2008....Jim DeMint.
Posted by: Jeff B., pre-op transromneybot at October 24, 2011 03:41 PM (hIWe1)
Posted by: Jeff B., pre-op transromneybot at October 24, 2011 03:43 PM (hIWe1)
@84 Re: Abe Lincoln's beard:
he grew it when a little girl told him he'd look better with one when he took office as President
I forget her name now, but there's a monument to her in Delphos, Kansas, population 500 or so. They have a copy of the text of the letter there. I think she was about 12 yrs. old at the time. As I understand it, though, she actually wrote to him way before he was elected, suggesting that his campaign would do better if he grew a beard. (He was one freaky-looking dude clean-shaven!)
Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at October 24, 2011 03:44 PM (F0o5k)
Posted by: Paul at October 24, 2011 04:08 PM (DsHk0)
Is that the chick that married the liver-fluke guy?
Posted by: toby928© at October 24, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3lwd8u4
Dr. Spank & AllenG, y'all from around here, then?
Texas Tea Party Patriots PAC here:
http://thewoodlandsteapartypac.com/
Posted by: Troll Feeder at October 24, 2011 04:21 PM (NJIta)
Posted by: richard mcenroe at October 24, 2011 04:38 PM (AVN5e)
Posted by: The Magical Christmas Horse ePub at October 24, 2011 05:29 PM (kplp3)
What I'm not getting is the subject. For the Lincoln - Douglas, you had two guys who were arguing diametrically opposing sides over slavery. But Newt and Cain are not diametrically opposed on entitlements, it seems. They differ in criticism of entitlements only by degrees.
But, it does remain a good service to continue to bring to bear public criticism of our entitlement systems. So I hope they both do well and this thing winds up being engaging.
Posted by: Cowboy at October 24, 2011 05:56 PM (So+7G)
"But, it does remain a good service to continue to bring to bear public criticism of our entitlement systems. So I hope they both do well and this thing winds up being engaging."
That is exactly the point of the format and the topic. We want a long-form discussion of what the Republican candidates plans to do about the biggest items in the budget.
We hope the candidate choice, format, and duration will produce a useful and (at least somewhat) binding discussion. We'll see, anyway.
Posted by: Troll Feeder at October 24, 2011 06:11 PM (NJIta)
Posted by: 1Q84 epub at October 24, 2011 06:18 PM (1mVin)
Hmmm,
Big lifetime DC inside pol policy wonk with enough empty statements to fill a week vs. some dolt who actually had to account for those taxes show up on his pay stub....
My money is on the wonk because most voters do not know that the wonk actually does not actually know what the hell is is spouting off so intelligently about.
Posted by: Romney Voter at October 24, 2011 06:29 PM (7MFxV)
Posted by: The Scorpio Races epub at October 24, 2011 06:37 PM (Z93nW)
Posted by: Destined ePub at October 24, 2011 08:06 PM (MFNBL)
Dead horse time: Romney or Gingrich. Pick one. Stop kidding yourselves.
Posted by: JB at October 25, 2011 02:33 AM (7T+Mz)
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Posted by: steevy at October 24, 2011 12:36 PM (fyOgS)