November 11, 2011
— DrewM Via Allah, Cain's Iowa lead is down 11 points in 5 days in the same poll.
Over the course of a week, Herman Cain's lead in Iowa shrunk from 15 points to four over former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, according to a new Insider Advantage poll of likely Republican caucus-goers in the Hawkeye State.Meanwhile, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich moved ahead of Romney into second place in South Carolina, according to another Insider Advantage poll released Friday.
According to the Iowa survey, Cain leads the GOP field with 23 percent of the support, while Romney takes 19 percent. Gingrich comes in third with 15 percent. Texas Rep. Ron Paul garners 11 percent, and Gov. Rick Perry receives 9 percent. None of the remaining candidates polls above 5 percent, and 13 percent are undecided.
From occasional guest blogger and editor of The Transom (a must read daily email) Ben Dommenech, Cain still leads nationally in a CBS poll but with plenty of bad news for him.
Cain has lost support among women since late October. Then, he led among women, garnering 28 percent of their support. Now, his support among women is just 15 percent. He has also lost ground with conservatives, from 30 percent to 23 percent now. And there has been some movement among Tea Party supporters as well; their support for Cain has declined from 32 percent to 19 percent. Romney has lost support among men, while Gingrich's support among that group has increased eight points.
There's also a McClatchy-Marist poll out today showing Mitt Romney back in the lead nationally, Newt Gingrich rising to second and Cain falling to third.
The breakdown of the poll:— Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, 23 percent;
—Gingrich, the former Speaker of the House of Representatives, 19 percent;
—Cain, the former restaurant executive, 17 percent;
Ron Paul is the only other candidate in double digits at 10%.
It would be interesting to see what hurt Cain more, the allegations themselves (which are shaky at best) or his brutal handling of them.
Either way, it's pretty clear that Cain's momentum has been broken. It's not to say that he's done but he's come back to the field. The next week or two will tell if this is his new plateau or if he slides further back towards where he was before his recent climb began in the Florida straw poll.
Clearly Newt is "Not Romney" this month. God knows there more than enough ammunition in his past to shoot him with. With about 7 weeks until Iowa, maybe he's timed it just right. As much as I'm ant-Romney and pro-Gingrich now, I'm not sure if that would be a good or a bad thing.
It's simply amazing this is the spot we are in. Simply amazing.
Posted by: DrewM at
07:25 AM
| Comments (354)
Post contains 470 words, total size 3 kb.
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 07:28 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 07:28 AM (s+J9D)
2002: Penn State conducts a "secret" investigation about Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky about his shower companions
2010: Penn State conducts a whitewash investigation about Dr. Michael Mann and Climategate.
Posted by: Barney Frank at November 11, 2011 07:28 AM (e8kgV)
"Toure" mocks Cain's cancer survival.
Cain has to survive his still metastasizing sex harassment scandal and his many gaffes and his clear lack of competence, experience and serious intellect because the GOP is so excited about him that they are refusing to really kick the tires (or admit to themselves that when they kick the tires they prove flat). Because they know they need him. See, Cain feeds the myth that racism is over.
Time ragazine
Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 11, 2011 07:29 AM (m8ARs)
I'm no Herm bot. I'm just not going to let the MFM bury anybody again.
Although... it may not be up to me anymore.
Ah well. My state is deep blue and the promary is in March, so it's not like my vote matters anyway.
Posted by: Truman North at November 11, 2011 07:29 AM (I2LwF)
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 07:30 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:30 AM (pXUfx)
Drew, you are a sick bastard. After another poor performance by Perry, you put an article up promoting him and saying how well it will help him, then you put up an article that shows Cain has done well in surviving the unwarranted attacks of the media and yourself, but coach it as if Cain has failed miserably and doesn't warrant a further look.
I hate the republican establishment, will no longer trust them, they are just like the MSM, only worse as they are backstabbers to their own party.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 07:30 AM (gUGI6)
Discuss.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 11, 2011 07:32 AM (uehxp)
Mostly because I would love to see him leave a whimpering, urine soaked Obama in the fetal position on the debate stage.
I'm still hoping Perry can recover - but damn. Every time I see him if I close my eyes I hear George Bush. I don't want to, but I do. Poor bastard.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 11, 2011 07:32 AM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:32 AM (pXUfx)
It's simply amazing this is the spot we are in. Simply amazing.
Dude, you can't express this enough.
It's supposed to be a brilliant time for the Conservative Movement ® because of the SCOAMF in the White House, but we're busy stepping on our collective dick by having one of the worst bunch of candidates we could have.
Instead, it sucks to be a conservative right now.
Posted by: © Sponge at November 11, 2011 07:33 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:33 AM (pXUfx)
Fixed it for ya, Drew.
I understand not wanting Cain to be the nominee based on real issues (even though I disagree), but the hatchet job done by liberal Bullshitico, aided by NRO, Tepid Air, AoSHQ and others has been beyond disgusting.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 07:33 AM (HkOAc)
I hate the republican establishment, will no longer trust them, they are just like the MSM, only worse as they are backstabbers to their own party.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 11:30 AM (gUGI6)
republican establishment = everybody who disagrees with me (including DrewM)
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 11, 2011 07:33 AM (P/F96)
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!
A blogger is part of the establishment. Oh, I'm sorry. The Establishment. Better!
The cheerleaders don't respect you, by the way.
Posted by: Anony at November 11, 2011 07:34 AM (Yigvc)
>>>Drew, you are a sick bastard. After another poor performance by Perry, you put an article up promoting him and saying how well it will help him, then you put up an article that shows Cain has done well in surviving the unwarranted attacks of the media and yourself, but coach it as if Cain has failed miserably and doesn't warrant a further look.I hate the republican establishment, will no longer trust them, they are just like the MSM, only worse as they are backstabbers to their own party.
Fucking RINOs and their poll numbers
Posted by: Ben at November 11, 2011 07:35 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:35 AM (pXUfx)
I'd like to hear your substantive thoughts on why Cain's our best bet.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 07:35 AM (pLTLS)
Posted by: Ben at November 11, 2011 07:36 AM (wuv1c)
11
I think if (Oh Jesus) say, Cain got the nod, Newt would be a perfect second half. Or Perry. At least so somebody could ask him WTF do I do? He'd also be the perfect attack dog - at least he would have been in the past. I'm a bit concerned with his new shtick of being Mr. Niceguy to his competition.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 11, 2011 07:36 AM (Qxdfp)
What I find amazing is that only a few months ago we were congratulating ourselves over how strong the Republican field was. Now, we can't see anything good.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 07:36 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (pXUfx)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (+UmwV)
Posted by: doomsayer at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (OHhPo)
Its not amazing at all that Cain took a dive. the media frenzy that he was hit with from both left and right, all over completely made up allegations. the lack of substance is what bothers me about Cain.
Its Newt or nothing at this point.
Posted by: exceller at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (jx2Td)
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 11:30 AM
Considering the traditional ceremonial role of Veeps, I could accept it. If there were substantive duties assigned to the Number Two, I'd have to reconsider.
But for making the rounds of the talk show/rubber chicken circuits, I think The Newt would do just fine.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 07:37 AM (HkOAc)
Would YOU want to submit yourself to the rectal exam all R candidates get from the press? Most good people won't run.
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (X6akg)
I'd like to hear your substantive thoughts on why Cain's our best bet.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 11:35 AM (pLTLS)
D'uh!!! Because The Establishment™ hates him???
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (P/F96)
It's simply amazing this is the spot we are in. Simply amazing.
I want to know why any decent human being would run for higher office. I'm serious, why? Why would you do that to yourself and your family? I know for sure that I am not nearly self-sacrificing enough or megalomaniacal enough to do it.
Drew, you are a sick bastard.
Well, yeah. Oh. Did you mean it as a bad thing?
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (VtjlW)
What I find amazing is that only a few months ago we were congratulating ourselves over how strong the Republican field was. Now, we can't see anything good.
I believe back then we thought Cain wasn't a complete fucking imbecile and Perry could at least stand up straight in a debate.
Posted by: Barbarian at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (EL+OC)
Don't let facts get in your way.
I didn't say Perry's post-brain freeze performance would help him. I said it could help him. Very different things.
Do you really think losing 11 points in 5 days in the first state to vote means Cain "has done well in surviving" this week? What would doing poorly look like?
And it's not just one poll it's 3. You can probably nit-pick some of the samples and what not but you can't simply dismiss the general direction Cain is going. Can he stop it and recover? Maybe, we'll see.
You might want to consider that Cain has some responsibility for what's happened to him instead of blaming everyone else under the sun.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (plesI)
Posted by: notropis at November 11, 2011 07:38 AM (cjcCc)
Posted by: doomsayer at November 11, 2011 07:39 AM (oB2II)
It would be interesting to see what hurt Cain more, the allegations themselves (which are shaky at best)
-------------------------------------------
Shaky? Don't tell that to Ace. Bialek speaks the gospel, the gospel of Allred. Which in hind site is beyond reproach. Just ask Meg Whitman! Shit what is not believe, 3 anonymous accusers that don't want to come forward even after the NRA said it would release them from the confidentiality agreement. That smacks of truth!
But if only Cain would have handled it like a Clinton and hired people to destroy the women... Damn I could have gotten behind that. It is not as if people on the right bought that bullshit hook, line, and sinker being total cocks in the process, and aided the tear down Cain strateg- oh wait.
The truth, judiciousness, BAH!; cliche bullshit. Long live anonymous allegations!
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 07:39 AM (LJP4+)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 11, 2011 07:40 AM (6d9Y3)
What I find amazing is that only a few months ago we were congratulating ourselves over how strong the Republican field was. Now, we can't see anything good.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 11:36 AM (MSCON)
We were? I seem to remember everyone clamoring for several OTHER names to throw their hat in the ring. Don't remember the big circle jerk for THIS lot......
Posted by: © Sponge at November 11, 2011 07:40 AM (UK9cE)
2002: Penn State conducts a "secret" investigation about Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky about his shower companions
2010: Penn State conducts a whitewash investigation about Dr. Michael Mann and Climategate.
-----------
Yes, it's clear that the Feds have come in to make sure any information that comes out does not taint this great northeastern university. Because, you know, it's certainly more important that this great NE university maintain it's reputation than whether 10 or 12 year old boys are getting raped by grown men in the athletic facilities. Yes, their reputation is much more important...../sarc
Posted by: Racist, Right-Wing Terrorist in Midwest...Or Tea Party Member for Short at November 11, 2011 07:40 AM (F1JEL)
Posted by: doomsayer at November 11, 2011 07:40 AM (BUcLz)
I don't care if Cain hits on women or not, he still isn't ready for the top job and he never was, even before all the allegations.
Posted by: real joe at November 11, 2011 07:40 AM (6f6jI)
2 ace's fault.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 11:27 AM (pLTLS)
HeÂ’ll never admit it and Sarah isnÂ’t coming back until he apologizes, so weÂ’re totally fucked.
Posted by: jwest at November 11, 2011 07:41 AM (qeYI9)
Posted by: RM at November 11, 2011 07:41 AM (TRsME)
Discuss.
What that Jon Stewart is a clown masquerading as a sage masquerading as a clown, a filthy shill for socialism and other worn out authoritarian ideals, devoid of any semblance of intellectual honesty or self respect?
Not really much to discuss. As they say, the science is settled.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 07:42 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: GOP-Party of Lincoln Stern at November 11, 2011 07:42 AM (t7IDU)
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 11:30 AM
-------------------------------
I could support Newt at the top of the ticket, bottom of the ticket doesn't matter to me.
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 07:42 AM (LJP4+)
I am reminded of Kitty Genovese. But hey at least you can say you were impartial and fair and did not stoop to their level.
Mittens/Somebody 2012 it is!
Posted by: Nevyan at November 11, 2011 07:42 AM (RCYZC)
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 11:33 AM (HkOAc)
It wasn't a hatchet job, for goodness' sake. Ace may have come to the conclusion he did a little more readily than some would like, but given the limited nature of the evidence it was not unreasonable to take the position he did and he was obviously trying to be fair. His critics would have a much better case against him if they had demonstrated an ability to reason based on evidence instead of emotion.
I hate to agree with Ace, but he is at least partially right about the irrationality of many on the right.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 07:43 AM (MSCON)
Considering the upcoming apocalypse The Establishment™ is busily engaged upon bring down on us, that's a valid argument.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 11, 2011 07:43 AM (uehxp)
Posted by: Jack at November 11, 2011 07:43 AM (zKFOT)
2002: Penn State conducts a "secret" investigation about Gerald "Jerry" Sandusky about his shower companions
2010: Penn State conducts a whitewash investigation about Dr. Michael Mann and Climategate.
Adding the outright disappearance of a DA that the whole shootin match was reported to.....
You've got the perfect Democrat Storm right there in PA.
PROFIT!!! UTOPIA!!!!
Posted by: © Sponge at November 11, 2011 07:44 AM (UK9cE)
Yup, that's a serious candidate alright.
And where have Romney and Perry been? Iowa and Michigan (for the debate only) and back to Iowa.
Posted by: Jimmuy at November 11, 2011 07:44 AM (pXUfx)
Posted by: doomsayer at November 11, 2011 07:45 AM (vyPsz)
Gingrich supports amnesty, including a nutty plan to have local community boards decide which illegal aliens receive it.
Posted by: Jon at November 11, 2011 07:46 AM (gkCyJ)
Lacey, you ask me to sell you on why I think Cain is our best bet....
First off, I have never said Cain is our best bet, I actually think Jeb Bush is, and failing that likely Newt. However, I do think Cain is a better bet than you think.
My point all along has been how disgusting the attacks on Cain have been and how biased this media source is in their reporting. It has been worse than the biases that even MSNBC uses in theirs and we all know how bad that is. And this blog and others controlled by the establishment have been using those biases against a fellow Republican.
I can easily tell you why I think any of these candidates would do better than Romney in a general election, arguing is easy to do if you do it from an unbiased prospective.
However, on this blog, it appears that in order to win an argument one has to be biased towards a particular candidate then print biased remarks ahead of time to lay the foundation to attempt to win over the argument.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 07:46 AM (gUGI6)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:46 AM (pXUfx)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at November 11, 2011 07:46 AM (jeLTI)
Urine soaked vintage Tickle Me Elmo Doll with broken pull string beats Obama by an average of 11 points.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 11, 2011 07:47 AM (Qxdfp)
I'd like to hear your substantive thoughts on why Cain's our best bet.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 11:35 AM (pLTLS) "
I'm not Doug, but the point seems to be that it was Perry who stepped in it just recently, but it's Cain who took the big hit! Why should anyone have to sell you on a candidate, tell us who you support and why we should vote for them. Instead most people here are trying to tear others down even with the a hit job provided the MSM... who lauds Bill Clinton as the best president ever!
Posted by: Africanus at November 11, 2011 07:47 AM (Fc7g/)
Drew, you are a sick bastard. After another poor performance by Perry, you put an article up promoting him and saying how well it will help him, then you put up an article that shows Cain has done well in surviving the unwarranted attacks of the media and yourself, but coach it as if Cain has failed miserably and doesn't warrant a further look.
I hate the republican establishment, will no longer trust them, they are just like the MSM, only worse as they are backstabbers to their own party.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 11:30 AM (gUGI6)
thank you, now i don't have to say it
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 07:47 AM (jdOk/)
Everybody loses to Obama but Romney currently. And no way am I going to help Romney get the nom. NO WAY. If he is the only one left on primary day. I'll write someone else in.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 07:47 AM (0q2P7)
And this blog and others controlled by the establishment have been using those biases against a fellow Republican.
This is an establishment blog? How things do change.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 07:47 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at November 11, 2011 11:43 AM (uehxp)
Sure. The Establishment™ works towards the apocalypse and Cain, Professional Freelancing Hero on White Horse (no pun), endangers their devilish plans. Or its because he is a horrible candidate who has no business being even near the Oval Office, because he knows less about politics than the average newspaper reader.
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 11, 2011 07:48 AM (P/F96)
Posted by: notropis at November 11, 2011 07:48 AM (cjcCc)
Adding the outright disappearance of a DA that the whole shootin match was reported to.....
That happened up by where I used to live and it's completely bizarre. He just vanished. Seriously poof gone. No note, no nothing. IIRC, they found his car and maybe briefcase, I'm not sure on that, and that's it.
I keep waiting for his foot to wash up in BC.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 07:48 AM (VtjlW)
There's always a lag in polling, however, that comes as a result of the relatively slow filtration of information into the public awareness.
Cain is starting to drop because the sexual harassment scandal kerfluffle is starting to work its way into the underlying consciousness of a lot of people (thanks, Ace, for the diligent hard work!).
It remains to be seen whether the same will happen with the fact that his accusers' stories have basically fallen apart, they have backed away from their supposed willingness to come out into the open (no joint press conference any more), and that Cain appears to be telling the truth while his most vocal accuser is lying (VSA results).
I'm guessing these won't find their way into primary voters' perceptions nearly as deeply, because it's unlikely that "conservative" bloggers who prefer other candidates, like, say, Perry, will be nearly as quick or as vigourous about promoting the information that exhonerates Cain as they were that which condemned him.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 07:49 AM (+inic)
Posted by: Nickie Goomba at November 11, 2011 07:49 AM (jeLTI)
I forgot the AoSHQ mission statement that promises news *without* opinion. Perhaps you could point me to it?
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 07:49 AM (0q2P7)
Leave it to the modern Republican party to throw away what should be a decisive sweep of an upopular president out of office.
If these idiots are the best the 'Political Class' has to offer than we are well and truely screwed.
Posted by: AdamPM at November 11, 2011 07:49 AM (/83rF)
I genuinely wanted a "not-Romney" candidate, I went from Pawlenty to Perry, but Romney is the only legitimate contender left.
It's either win with Romney or lose with Cain-Gingrich-Perry. I'd rather take my chances with a moderate Republican like Romney than a second term from Obama.
Posted by: 8 Track at November 11, 2011 07:49 AM (t0YVB)
@ 79 Everybody loses to Obama but Romney currently.
Fortunately, the polling that shows this is about as relevant to Nov. 2012 as the pimple count on Joe Biden's rear end.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 07:50 AM (+inic)
Posted by: Xoxotl at November 11, 2011 07:51 AM (3AOLv)
@ 87 If these idiots are the best the 'Political Class' has to offer than we are well and truely screwed.
Maybe it's time for a new political class?
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 07:51 AM (+inic)
They don't.
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity" - Yeats
As a result, only charlatans, defectives, and incompetents apply for the job.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 07:51 AM (+UmwV)
Posted by: Mr. Dave at November 11, 2011 07:52 AM (U2WW5)
Posted by: GMan at November 11, 2011 07:52 AM (sxq57)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 07:53 AM (21lBC)
Posted by: Minnie Rodent at November 11, 2011 07:54 AM (S3rrR)
The country hadn't been destroyed in 2004, and Bush was more popular than Zero at that point.
Everybody loved Jimmy Carter all the way up until he was packing up to leave. People were shrugging their shoulders. How could some old fart who wants to put his trembling, bony finger on the nuclear red button win? Nobody wanted to say they voted that way.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 11, 2011 07:54 AM (Qxdfp)
That's one way to think about it. Me personally I blame the establishment for the field. They gave us a pile of very flawed candidates such that Romney was the only reasonable choice. They payed no heed to what we actually wanted, and basically just told us what we were going to get.
F* them, if they are going to play that way so I can't have something I want, I will work to make sure they don't get what they want either. Either they learn to work with us, or we will lose, fail, crash, whatever. I'm tired of being taken for granted, used as a gambit like a stupid pawn.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 07:54 AM (0q2P7)
Fuck it, let's start drinking. It's 5:00 in South Africa.
I'm having a beer for each Union casualty at Gettysburg. And then I'll start drinking to the Rebs.
Posted by: USS Diversity at November 11, 2011 07:54 AM (t7IDU)
Do you really think losing 11 points in 5 days in the first state to vote means Cain "has done well in surviving" this week? What would doing poorly look like?
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 11:38 AM (plesI)
------------------------------
Dropping out of the race as he was predicted to do and which was the entire point of the allegations.
----------------------------------
You might want to consider that Cain has some responsibility for what's happened to him instead of blaming everyone else under the sun.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 11:38 AM (plesI)
-----------------------------------
We did not want to blame you we want you to admit your hand in promoting allegations that were OBVIOUSLY false. Goddamn Gloria Allred wasn't a fucking clue! Shit the day Allred came out Ace went full retard for that bullshit. Fucking Karl Rove said Gloria Allred lent credibiltiy to the allegations?!?! Where was the fucking skepticism, rub just two brains cells together, damn...
The part that galls me the most is the other blogs posted information that pointed towards Cain's innocence and the frivilousness of the allegations. That shit did not show up here (sidebar doesn't count dude.) I sent in some emails, is that account dead or something?
Of course the response was clumsy he is not a professional politician with the insider links neccesary to swat the allegations away like a Clinton or a Romney. So yeah it was clumsy. When you are a novice and telling the truth, you aren't going to do it Axelrod style when Axelrod is coming after you. Again his response was clumsy. See I can admit that, not that hard...
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 07:55 AM (LJP4+)
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 07:56 AM (TKF1Y)
Posted by: avi at November 11, 2011 07:56 AM (iSFyV)
@ 88 I'd rather take my chances with a moderate Republican like Romney than a second term from Obama.
No thanks, I'm not rewarding the GOP establishment this time around. If they want to suicide bomb the conservative base's efforts at actually having a say in their own party's nomination process, then I'm perfectly willing to tell the GOP establishment to take a hike, even if it means another 4 years of Obama.
After all, I've got food, water, ammo, and toilet paper stocked up. I can survive it.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 07:56 AM (+inic)
And this blog and others controlled by the establishment have been using those biases against a fellow Republican.
This is an establishment blog? How things do change.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 11:47 AM (MSCON)
it has become such...
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 07:57 AM (jdOk/)
I really don't know what to say about this.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 07:57 AM (pLTLS)
Drew @46
Your last observations first, "You might want to consider that Cain has some responsibility for what's happened to him instead of blaming everyone else under the sun." - in relation to still being in the lead but losing some of the lead.
You say this in a very NEGATIVE way towards Cain. Anyone in this position who has gone through this should be assumed to come out of it with maybe only 3 or 4 percent support, yet he still is one of the leaders if not the leader in the polls. Any unbiased observer would realize that he has come out of this amazingly well. However to a BIASED observer, he must have handled this horribly. IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. He has handled it better than anyone could have expected and has come out of it extremely well considering.
And firstly, with another Perry catastrophe you phrase his reaction to it in a very POSITIVE light. With Cain's survival of the media blitz you phrase it all in a NEGATIVE light. Those are the biases that are obvious. It is MSNBC. You could have easily phrased Perry's following day in a Negative manner and Cain's leading the polls and picking up huge dollars in a Positive manner.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 07:58 AM (gUGI6)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 11:57 AM (pLTLS)
But I know what to say and its really bold: 9 - 9 - 9 !
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 11, 2011 07:59 AM (P/F96)
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 07:59 AM (h+qn8)
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 07:59 AM (s+J9D)
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 08:00 AM (+UmwV)
I really don't know what to say about this.
Why would anyone have to sell you a car? Just tell us what car you think suits our needs and what the benefits, features, and price of that car are.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 08:00 AM (0q2P7)
This field was weak from the start and never got stronger.
Posted by: Aruges at November 11, 2011 08:01 AM (MDchW)
We need a strong leader in office who can bully Congress to DO what NEEDS to be done. Witness the vote on Rand Paul's bill to 'allow' Congress the ability to control the EPA (Newsflash: Maybe congress shouldn't have abrogated that power to the Executive to BEGIN WITH).
6 Senators defected: Snowe, Collins, Brown, Kirk (surprise on all 4), Lamar Alexander, and Kelly Ayotte. We need a president who can and will stiffen these people's spine.
IMO, there are 3 or 4 people that can do this: Perry, Cain, Gingrich, and, yes, Romney.
Romney I doubt because I don't think he will lead when we need him to - much like having the RINOs I listed above that vote against you on the important stuff. Will he FIGHT to have Obamacare repealed? Or will he just nibble around the edges, and, if it doesn't make it through the house or senate, just throw up his hands and say 'well it didn't get to my desk, what can I do.'
I have no doubt Cain will fight to get stuff done - the question is, will it be the right stuff? I don't know. He hasn't talked a lot about doing away with departments; in fact, he attacked Ron Paul saying that Ron Paul's answer was always to throw the 'baby out with the bath water' with respect to cutting departments. Sorry Herb, but RP is right - most of these departments are unconstitutional, wasteful, and are doing harm. They NEED to be eliminated. And 9-9-9 isn't a plan for dealing with a government that has overstepped it's authority and is destructive towards it's citizens.
That leaves Perry and Gingrich. I still have some trust issues with Gingrich, as he is kind of a wild gun at times (not always bad), and, as I stated earlier, a technocrat. We don't need government to fix things, unless the fix is 'eliminating government'.
Perry has his downsides, but I think that he is honest (as politicians go); if he says he won't push for amnesty or backdoor amnesty, and that he will secure the border, I tend to believe him. We already know he is willing to take on the Federal Government, specifically the EPA, which is doing immeasurable harm to us.
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:01 AM (x7g7t)
Oooh, look who's all important.
Posted by: Joe Biden's netherside carbuncles at November 11, 2011 08:01 AM (6TB1Z)
It was nice knowing you.
Damn you George Pickett, another moron passes from alcohol poisoning.
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 08:01 AM (GTbGH)
Don't worry about that, it's not gonna.
He (and they) can't just leave it alone for it to correct itself. The housing market would have been on the rebound at this point. And yet, he keeps dicking with it prolonging the pain.
We haven't seen the bad stuff yet - things are going to get really weird.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 11, 2011 08:02 AM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 11:59 AM (h+qn
why?
because he smokes on camera, or because he's taking a non-traditional path?
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 08:02 AM (jdOk/)
106 it has become such...
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 11:57 AM (jdOk/)
I am starting to get the impression that "establishment" is becoming the new "racist" - a general-purpose pejorative divorced from its original meaning.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 08:02 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 08:03 AM (s+J9D)
Posted by: ParisParamus at November 11, 2011 08:03 AM (dij/b)
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (gUGI6)
Time ragazine
Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 11, 2011 11:29 AM (m8ARs)
Because the MFM was so thorough in vetting Barry in 2008. They just didn't cream their collective panties and give him a free pass and still do
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (1Jaio)
Thanks for that.
Posted by: pep at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (6TB1Z)
I don't blame the establishment, I blame the grassroots for fielding such poor candidates.
A more credible conservative candidate could have EASILY knocked Romney off, which is why Perry was leading by nearly 20 points until he opened his mouth. The establishment didn't lift a finger, every one of these alternative candidates just imploded on their own.
I personally think the vitriol on the Right against Romney is overplayed. I would like someone more conservative, but on the big picture issues, he's good enough, and if he's our nominee, I'll pull the lever for him.
I remember having fantasies of voting 3rd Party when McCain got the nomination, but after Obama, I'm not messing around with "sending a message", I just want him gone, I'm not going to let him destroy this country just to prove a point.
Posted by: 8 Track at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (t0YVB)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (14jKX)
He sucks at fighting allegations, he sucks at campaigning, and he sucks are policy of any sort, even 9-9-9.
Suckkity suck suck.
Posted by: GergS at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (2okAn)
Posted by: kansas at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (mka2b)
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (GTbGH)
Maybe your parents never mentioned this to you but you are not the center of the Universe. Just because you have reached a conclusion about this race doesn't mean that everyone else is obligated to join you or act in a way that promotes your choice.
We're you guys sad or rushing to prop up Bachmann and Perry before they crashed? Why exactly should everyone drop their personal choices and run to prop up your guy? You do realize that if people support other candidates they want bad shit to happen to the other candidates, right?
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:04 AM (plesI)
It's a Romney - Gingrich race now. I don't think that dynamic will change.
The rest of the candidates are done. Cain's done. Perry's done. Etc.
Bring on the Lincoln-Douglas style debate(s) between Newt & Mitt.
We have two smart and articulate guys to choose from. I'm very glad about that.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 11, 2011 08:05 AM (b68Df)
I really like the sound of that. Little short on "diversity" of course, but we won't get those votes anyway.
Posted by: pep at November 11, 2011 08:06 AM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: toby928© is raving again at November 11, 2011 08:06 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: avi at November 11, 2011 11:56 AM (iSFyV)
Dood! Quit hogging the bong. That must be some primo shit!
Posted by: Count de Monet, in the Perry tank for the duration at November 11, 2011 08:06 AM (4q5tP)
Posted by: 1/1027th of a Janitor at November 11, 2011 08:06 AM (tazG1)
Posted by: MTF at November 11, 2011 08:07 AM (JOnLy)
For weeks, I've watched Perry's, Cain's, Newt's, and yes, even Bachmann's numbers bob up and down. They're nice little barometers of the public sentiment du jour of whichever little sample of humanity the hired flacks choose to canvass. Like newspaper horoscopes, if there are four of them on any particular day and they all disagree with each other, most of them must be wrong. And their tie to next November's results is tenuous.
While the polls vacillate, the candidate's records and beliefs do not. Well, they should not (and yes, I'm looking at you, Mittens and Newt). Perry's stance is the one closest to mine, and I'm sticking with him until he's out. Of course, last time, I stuck with Thompson until he was out, and look where that got me.
Assuming Newt will hold still and staple himself to the solid conservative side of what he claims to believe, I won't have a problem pulling the handle for him next year. I'd be happy with Perry/Newt or Newt/Perry. I'd probably be content with Cain if I could see a broad-based conservative as a running mate. If Romney gets the party's nod - I shudder - it will take reminding me regularly or what and who he's running against to get me into a voting booth, but I'd probably do it. You might need to prod me some, and I'll probably hate myself in the morning, but yeah.
I could almost give half a crap about who debates well in front of lefty moderators. If that's what I wanted in the White House, I could go to Jeopardy or American Gorram Idol. What's more important to me is how they will govern, what they will do, what they will support. Screw the debates, screw Madison Avenue, and screw the hairdressers.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 11, 2011 08:07 AM (Jdtsu)
Posted by: tendstl at November 11, 2011 08:08 AM (VE0cN)
Worse, I'm paying for the privilege. Pinged him another donation this morning.
HOLD FAST
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 08:08 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: toby928© is raving again at November 11, 2011 12:06 PM (GTbGH)
I will sit out of the race. I'm not kidding.
Posted by: GergS at November 11, 2011 08:08 AM (2okAn)
Doesn't really matter that much, we are going to have to dance with the one we bring, and hope they pick an VP (DeMint, McDonnell?) that excites the base.
And then burn some smelly diseased ows hippies as a sacrifice to the election gods that we win the senate.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 11, 2011 08:08 AM (JYheX)
We have two smart and articulate guys to choose from. I'm very glad about that.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 11, 2011 12:05 PM (b68Df)
But they're certainly not as clean as I! Just ask Sheriff Joe.
Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 11, 2011 08:08 AM (ggRof)
I would be very disappointed to think you all were doing it for free.
Posted by: 1/1027th of a Janitor at November 11, 2011 12:06 PM (tazG1)
And all those tea-partiers were paid to show up at the rallys, right?
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:09 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (TKF1Y)
Posted by: toby928© is raving again at November 11, 2011 12:06 PM (GTbGH)
You owe me a keyboard....I just puked on it.
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (X6akg)
His team handled the shitstorm of allegations badly, even i who defended him , wasn't sure if they were true or not, i argued only that until facts were presented we should recognise them as piggish allegations only. but I would have liked assistance in my arguments as well as others that were trying to give him a fair shake.
He can get someone better that will do better in a crisis , block isn't it
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (h+qn8)
106 it has become such...
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 11:57 AM (jdOk/)
I am starting to get the impression that "establishment" is becoming the new "racist" - a general-purpose pejorative divorced from its original meaning.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 12:02 PM (MSCON)
i can see how establishment types would want to push that meme... but it's wrong.
the "esatablishment" are the fanatical defenders of the status quo and still are.
applecarts need to be overturned, and i have no patience for those who say otherwise, whether they say it in words or by action/inaction.
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (jdOk/)
For about 99% of recorded history, that's pretty much what people have had to do. The golden eras of everything being on track and "good" are damned few and far between.
Kinda like the earth - most of the time over the past hundreds of millions of years this crib is in the grip of some sort of nasty ice age and only briefly emerges into where we are today.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (+UmwV)
I think I'm down to either Newt Perry or Rick Gingrich ... or I would be if Romney didn't already have this thing sewn up, which he does.
Posted by: Rick Rombachcaingrichsman at November 11, 2011 08:10 AM (8/DeP)
shoey
because block shoots first and then finds out he shot the wrong person
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 12:03 PM (s+J9D)
and no one around here ever does that?
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 08:11 AM (jdOk/)
The problem? That was the document that explained that despite what Cain said on the stump, the business tax was a VAT.
Integrity baby. Integrity.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:11 AM (plesI)
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 08:12 AM (jdOk/)
I BEG YOUR F*ING PARDON?
It's OUR fault now? Not the Republican Party's?
WTF? We need to come up with candidates? That are experienced, vetted, and talented? AT THE GRASS ROOTS LEVEL? WHAT THE F* is establishment contribution to this party then?
Sharon Angle anyone?
Christine Odonell anyone?
Grass roots means no real organization. How are we supposed to get reliable candidates with not organization? That's WHAT THE PARTY STRUCTURE IS SUPPOSED TO DO!!!
Know the party, and put candidates out there they are confident with, that the base can be reasonably happy with and let us choose.
If any of us had the time to participate at that level, with the professional politicians, go through all the processes necessary to pick out and vett good candidates, we'd be part of the establishment.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 08:12 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:12 AM (21lBC)
DREW: "You do realize that if people support other candidates they want bad shit to happen to the other candidates, right?"
No, Drew I don't. I actually pray that God allows only good shit to happen to everyone, including my enemies.
However, I guess if you're a blogger you wish that horrible things happen to those who oppose your views, so that you can jump on the wounded and pour salt on them.
Is it too much to ask for reason and logic to win out for a change rather than the emotion of debasement?
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 08:13 AM (gUGI6)
As for Romney being a "moderate" alternative to the radical Obama; hell, they're Tweedledee and Tweedledumber; Politically, Romney follows pretty much the same course as Obama: Socialized Medicine, amnesty for illegal invaders, abortion. Of course, he's convinced everyone he's made an 180 ideologically; that will last at least an hour after he takes the oath of office, when he will then change his coat again into something more comfortable. Our slide to perdition will, I grant, be less contentious and abrasive, but our jobs, our liberties, our fortunes, our integrity will still be sacrified on the altar of Globaloney.
Posted by: Minnie Rodent at November 11, 2011 08:13 AM (S3rrR)
and no one around here ever does that?
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 12:11 PM (jdOk/)
we aren't running for the highest office. Block i'm sure is loyal and cain needs that, but he needs to mangage crisis much better. blaming perry dragging up race issues when Republicans gag on that issue these days, He is better than that, he needs to show it.
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 08:14 AM (h+qn8)
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 08:14 AM (pLTLS)
159 shoey
touche....i
if cain is the nominee i'm ok with it.....none of these guys are perfect.....i won't vote for bachman or paul but any of the rest of them i'll live....well i probably won't vote for huntsman...and i don't like romney....
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (s+J9D)
Worse, I'm paying for the privilege. Pinged him another donation this morning.
HOLD FAST
Posted by: toby928© Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at November 11, 2011 12:08 PM (GTbGH)
Heh. I'm arguing on my own time. Ya might wanna out some ice on that, 1/1027
Posted by: Count de Monet, in the Perry tank for the duration at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (4q5tP)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (14jKX)
The problem? That was the document that explained that despite what Cain said on the stump, the business tax was a VAT.
Integrity baby. Integrity
Speaking of integrity, are people going to apologize to Gabe for being utter fucking c---- to him for calling it a VAT? Just wondering.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (VtjlW)
shoey at November 11, 2011 12:11 PM (jdOk/)
not the ones that are running a campaign to get the republican nomination. are you too fucking stupid to know the difference between going off half-cocked on a blog and going on hannity and making claims that you say are confirmed and then those claims being shown as false??
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (TKF1Y)
I would be very disappointed to think you all were doing it for free. Oh geez, check out the Perry-worship on Redstate.com. It's quite something to behold. Something delusional and pathetic, but nonetheless something to behold.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (b68Df)
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (jdOk/)
The problem? That was the document that explained that despite what Cain said on the stump, the business tax was a VAT.
Integrity baby. Integrity.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 12:11 PM (plesI)
The whole site has been redesigned. The information on what each part of the tax is is still present, and the description of the business tax is the same as it ever was.
Further, I've noticed that they have also expounded upon the next step - moving to the 'Fair Tax' (which I am not a fan of because it again gives easy power to future Congresses to use for social engineering').
Not sure what it is that is missing from the old site.
http://www.hermancain.com/999
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: The Great and Powerful Romney at November 11, 2011 08:15 AM (VndSC)
if cain is the nominee i'm ok with it.....none of these guys are perfect.....i won't vote for bachman or paul but any of the rest of them i'll live....well i probably won't vote for huntsman...and i don't like romney....
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 12:15 PM (s+J9D)
yeah i'm there except for rp
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Barbarian at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (EL+OC)
The GOP candidate roster has a lot in common with the vacuum of deep space.
Still, compared to Comrade Zero, it could be worse. It would have to work at it, but it could be worse. I can't imagine how, but it could be worse. I really have to stretch my credulity, but it could be worse.
Posted by: maddogg at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (OlN4e)
It wasn't a hatchet job, for goodness' sake. Ace may have come to the conclusion he did a little more readily than some would like, but given the limited nature of the evidence it was not unreasonable to take the position he did and he was obviously trying to be fair. His critics would have a much better case against him if they had demonstrated an ability to reason based on evidence instead of emotion.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 11:43 AM (MSCON)
------------------------------------------------
No . Fucking. Way. Evidence:
1. There was only the first 3 accusers payouts as evidence against Cain. That's it! Name any evidence presented after that against Cain.
2. The credibility bubble was popped when the NRA association said it would release the accuser from the confidentiality agreement and the next day the accuser's attorney said she did not want to pursue it any further. That was game over. But not for Ace!
3. Gloria Muthafuckin' Allred. What, is the Democrat party's hoebag candidate destroyer some sort of insignificant data point? Meg Whitman remembers. Ace doubled down on Cain's guilt based on an accuser with Gloria Muthafuckin' Allred as her attorney. I need a better case against Ace than this?
The rest of the bullshit was media hype, that Ace was very eager to be a part of...
It has since been documented by Ann Coulter that David Axelrod's fingerprints are all over this. That did not make it into this blog. There's your evidence. It was Ace's emotions that got the better of him. How else do explain Gloria Allred staring you in the face as a data point for credibility? Come on man...
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (LJP4+)
It's an election. It's a zero sum thing. Someone wins, everyone else loses.
It's not Little League where everyone gets a participation trophy.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (plesI)
Posted by: Deanna at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (stgxM)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (21lBC)
I hate to agree with Ace, but he is at least partially right about the irrationality of many on the right.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 11:43 AMYou want "irrational?" For several days, Ace went Full-Weiner on Cain. If anyone dared question him, or point out that the accusations had no evidence to back them up -- and they still don't, IMO -- he went into profanity laced (NTTAWWT in some cases) tirades against the people who disagreed, even when they posed pretty decent questions or made sensible statements.
He seems to have walked it back some in the last day or so, but he was hitting the Tardasil heavy there for a while.
I dunno what brought it on, and I wouldn't want to speculate. But I hope he doesn't aim the shit-spray at any other Repub candidates. Instead, let them rise or fall on the issues. Or, better, spew some of that venom at the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (HkOAc)
Clearly you're not taking your own advice.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (pLTLS)
Rick @158 : "Cain should quit wearing that ridiculous black hat ... he looks like a pimp."
Why would you say that, does Imus look like a pimp when he wear's his? Clint Black? What is it about Cain that would cause you to make that statement?
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 08:17 AM (gUGI6)
doug at November 11, 2011 12:13 PM (gUGI6)
oh get off the fucking high road already!! by "bad shit" no one means ebola or AIDs. but bad shit like things from you past that call your character into account. or bad shit like freezing up during a debate.
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 08:18 AM (TKF1Y)
Posted by: ParisParamus at November 11, 2011 08:18 AM (dij/b)
Posted by: notropis at November 11, 2011 08:19 AM (cjcCc)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:20 AM (14jKX)
It's a link to the source documents that's missing.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:21 AM (plesI)
Posted by: 1/1027th of a Janitor at November 11, 2011 08:21 AM (tazG1)
I am reminded of Kitty Genovese. But hey at least you can say you were impartial and fair and did not stoop to their level.
Mittens/Somebody 2012 it is!
Posted by: Nevyan at November 11, 2011 08:21 AM (RCYZC)
I think he could be a really great campaigner, but I am not sure I'd like him as a VP.
Posted by: Y-not at November 11, 2011 08:22 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 12:17 PM (HkOAc)
People calling him The Establishment and a Romney shill is nothing? I'd take personal offense to all of that.
Posted by: GergS at November 11, 2011 08:22 AM (2okAn)
I am starting to get the impression that "establishment" is becoming the new "racist" - a general-purpose pejorative divorced from its original meaning.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 12:02 PM (MSCON)
i can see how establishment types would want to push that meme... but it's wrong. the "esatablishment" are the fanatical defenders of the status quo and still are. applecarts need to be overturned, and i have no patience for those who say otherwise, whether they say it in words or by action/inaction.
So Ace is a "fanatical defender" of the status quo just because he has questions for Cain? Am I also to understand that no other candidate in the field except for Cain opposes the status quo?
Posted by: Miss'80s at November 11, 2011 08:22 AM (d6QMz)
Posted by: dagny at November 11, 2011 08:23 AM (i+Are)
The Federal govt also has very limited authority to impose a national sales tax without some sort of constitutional amendment. There's all sorts of intra-state transactions that happen where stretching the commerce clause to cover them would be a pretty hard sell.
I'm not sure Cain has a firm grasp of how the US constitution is supposed to work.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 08:23 AM (+UmwV)
Posted by: Iblis at November 11, 2011 08:23 AM (hLGVM)
I am reminded of Kitty Genovese. But hey at least you can say you were impartial and fair and did not stoop to their level.
Mittens/Somebody 2012 it is!
Posted by: Nevyan at November 11, 2011 12:21 PM (RCYZC)
Cain didn't need a scandal to be a miserable buffoon.
Posted by: GergS at November 11, 2011 08:23 AM (2okAn)
It's a link to the source documents that's missing.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 12:21 PM (plesI)
I see the cached copy has links to .pdfs (those links no go nowhere) - a 9-9-9- 'brochure' and several others. Is that what you are talking about?
Yeah, I don't see those. I do have to wonder why.
The more I learn about 9-9-9, the less I like it. The fact that business can have real losses and still owe an income tax is a problem. A national sales tax while leaving the income tax in place. That is a BIG problem.
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:24 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: Christian, Pro-life, Anti Obama care Voters at November 11, 2011 08:24 AM (Zw/H7)
There's still some youtube thing loading somewhere, even though the sidebar's been scrubbed.
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 11, 2011 08:24 AM (SPC42)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 08:25 AM (pXUfx)
156 applecarts need to be overturned, and i have no patience for those who say otherwise, whether they say it in words or by action/inaction.
Posted by: shoey at November 11, 2011 12:10 PM (jdOk/)
Those of us who are not populists might point out that the Jacobins, the National Socialists, the Communists, and virtually every other plague for the last couple hundred years has been a revolt against an established order that turned out to be far worse than the original problem. Lets see what is inside that poke before we buy it, OK?
I am getting sick of people who think that being an outsider to Washington automatically means that you walk on water, or that all the "establishment" is automatically evil all the time. It merely a mirror image of the same stupidity that thinks that Everyman's decisions are best left to the washingtonian elite. I don't care whether a candidate is "establishment" or not - I want to know how they will govern.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 08:25 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 11, 2011 08:26 AM (haFNK)
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 08:27 AM (pXUfx)
Yes, it appears Cain's claims are the same on the new site but he specifically told people go to his site (the old one) and read the report backing up the claims. On the new site, there's no link to the Financial Associates analysis that called the business tax a VAT.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (plesI)
LONDON (Reuters) - BSkyB's independent directors unanimously backed James Murdoch as chairman on Friday in a letter addressing shareholders' concerns about his suitability following the phone-hacking scandal at the News of the World.
The endorsement came a day after Murdoch was grilled by British lawmakers for a second time about his role in overseeing the now-defunct tabloid, owned by the News International group that fell under his News Corp remit.
Posted by: Barney Frank at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (e8kgV)
The problem? That was the document that explained that despite what Cain said on the stump, the business tax was a VAT.
Integrity baby. Integrity.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 12:11 PM (plesI)
--------------------------------------
LOL this place reeks. With Romney in the field your are going to make the above statement. This site is giving Cain a colonoscopy. "Cain most throughly vetted candidate ever."
You know who is integral? Mitt Romney is integr-... If you cared about integrity in the least Mitt Romney would be on this site all day as the antithesis of integrity. Mitt Romney can't spell the fucking word, his innards are a gellatonous mass without conscious or conviction of any kind. But "He is electable!"
This is a fucking joke. AOSHQ is now the anti-Cain site... "Don't want to spoil." Muthafucka you are spoiling your own integrity. Cain being a weak candidate has become a lets tear down Cain party at AOSHQ. I cannot remember anybody getting this treatment. No one liked McCain but they sure as hell did not treat him as bad as Cain is getting it here at AOSHQ "Where integrity rules."
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (LJP4+)
---------------------------------
Thank god we have Romney's 156 page, technocratic, written by consultants economic plan to save us. Give it a whirl. If you can make it past the first few sections without a list of hundreds of questions, YOU'RE NOT DOING IT RIGHT.
Posted by: MJ at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (BKOsZ)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (14jKX)
Umm ... because he does? The suit and hat are incongruous and ridiculous.
Also ... no, Imus doesn't look like a pimp, he looks like a homeless person. And no, Clint Black doesn't look like a pimp, he looks like a cowboy.
Posted by: Rick Rombachcaingrichsman at November 11, 2011 08:28 AM (8/DeP)
I'd like to congratulate the corrupt lying racist leftist left for their help in the destruction of a black conservative man.
f*ck you very much. May you rot.
Posted by: Lemon Kitten at November 11, 2011 08:29 AM (O7ksG)
Hey, good to see you.
Hope all is well.
Posted by: DrewM. at November 11, 2011 08:29 AM (plesI)
I've given up entirely on paying attention to anyone who prognosticates the horse race.
It's impossible to seperate it from underlying wishcasting.
Posted by: Entropy at November 11, 2011 08:29 AM (XxXUI)
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 11, 2011 12:24 PM (SPC42)
I'd place my bet on brewer's yesterday morning post.
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 08:31 AM (X6akg)
Posted by: Waterhouse at November 11, 2011 12:24 PM (SPC42)
Yeah I thought so, thanks.
Is there no one on the crack AoS IT geek squad that can fix this shit or is that asking too much?
Posted by: Barbarian at November 11, 2011 08:32 AM (EL+OC)
EmpireOfJeff Jeff
What do you mean, I can't request a patdown, TSAssholes? You're public servants. Now, service my yambag with some light petting.
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 08:32 AM (X6akg)
Posted by: Cain Noonian Singh at November 11, 2011 08:32 AM (AF1jB)
Ace = Brooklyn residents
Cain = Kitty Genovese
MFM = Winston Moseley
And in the end Ace can say that he was IMPARTIAL, took the HIGHER ROAD and did not react in KNEEJERK CONSERVATIVE fashion. Democrats have a candidate in trouble and they circle the fucking wagons and fight back.
Conservatives have a candidate in trouble and they TAKE THAT MOTHERFUCKING HIGH ROAD TO DEFEAT every single time. Brilliant strategy.
I can't wait for Ace's pony to go down in flames in 2012.
Mittens/Somebody 2012!!
Posted by: Nevyan at November 11, 2011 08:33 AM (RCYZC)
I think he could be a really great campaigner, but I am not sure I'd like him as a VP.
I want him as press secretary, just for the utter hilarity.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 08:33 AM (VtjlW)
Damn it is 9:30AM I'm going to enjoy my day off!
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 08:34 AM (LJP4+)
Posted by: Joffen at November 11, 2011 08:34 AM (zLeKL)
I'll just say I'd like to repeat what I said here: 2
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 08:34 AM (pLTLS)
Is there no one on the crack AoS IT geek squad that can fix this shit or is that asking too much?
Considering that we are going on four years or so with new comments thingy, I'm guessing no.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 08:34 AM (VtjlW)
After that has been established, just pick who you like.
Cain - Most likeable. Teflon Reaganesque abilities. Makes you smile. Uber amounts of business acumen.
Gingrich- Smart. Knows how congress works. Great witty debater.
Perry- Liked by Texans. Your generic white conservative Republican that comforts white people. Bonus points because he's a governor and fits their ideal mold.
Bachmann- Smart, especially on foreign policy. Is a genuine Tea Partier.
Paul- Consistent. You know government would truly shrink and we'd have a more conservative presidency under him. The only candidate likely to make changes in our favor.
Santorum- Very socially conservative.
They'll all govern good and conservatively.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 08:35 AM (4f7GR)
@ 64 I hate to agree with Ace, but he is at least partially right about the irrationality of many on the right.
What's "irrational" about thinking we should actually expect some credible evidence to be presented concerning allegations before we actively participate in destroying a candidate's election bid?
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 08:35 AM (+inic)
The Cain defense is getting Palin-esque. Glad ace was willing to go there.
Posted by: brak at November 11, 2011 08:36 AM (nIoiW)
Posted by: CAC at November 11, 2011 08:36 AM (JEVge)
Yup. But how many of them can actually get elected?
I said the "e" word. Sigh. I'll go sit in the dunce corner.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at November 11, 2011 08:37 AM (pLTLS)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:37 AM (21lBC)
Same here. If you accept the premise that you "tax" that which you want less of (because taxes are a disincentive), then a business transaction tax makes no sense at all, since you're saying you want less business to happen.
IMO, 9-9-9 would be gang raped by the law of unintended consequences.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 08:37 AM (+UmwV)
Posted by: Nevyan at November 11, 2011 12:33 PM (RCYZC)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Happy Veteran's Day!
Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 11, 2011 08:37 AM (LJP4+)
Posted by: phoenixgirl on other work computer ready to drink the perry flavor-aid at November 11, 2011 08:38 AM (s+J9D)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:39 AM (14jKX)
He does have a decent record worth mentioning too.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at November 11, 2011 08:39 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (ndp2I)
I didn't make the remark, but I can see the origins and they are not racial (as you clearly believe them to be).
It's the incongruity of a prominent hat with double-breasted suit. Pimps are known for being over-dressed --- big suits, large hats, bling. It's a bit of a stretch because Cain doesn't have bling or a walking stick, but that hat is distinctive in a way that is reminiscent of a pimp.
Look up images of Dan Akroyd in Dr. Detroit.
Posted by: Y-not at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (5H6zj)
Remember that normally the ONLY things that Iowans evaluate a candidate on is whether or not a they will increase farm subsidies and whether or not they will support ethanol.
Mittens does both.
However, he cannot even get 20% of the poll there.
It is time for Mittens to fold his tend and stop campaigning for the good of the Party.
Posted by: Mark E at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (M3Dww)
After seeing several of ace's blow ups on a story, its not his hatred of a candidate or person that causes it. Its not some silly belief that the mfm is actually right. Its also not the bullshit that he's turning into Charles Johnson.
Typically it comes about because people start demanding ace agree with them on their views. Attacking him when he doesn't, and making those LGF comparisons. And lets not forget the really silly demands that ace not post about it, especially when commenters are talking about it in other threads.
When these happen, I think the best thing he should do is to limit posts to one or two a day because it can get a bit tiresome, but then there are plenty of days where there are multiple posts on the same topic.
What's really funny is when someone goes off about ace on the new rant when they absolutely loved some of his previous rants.
Posted by: buzzion at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (GULKT)
I'm thinking it'd be pretty bad - like rusty crowbar up the ass kinda unintended consequences.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (+UmwV)
Posted by: Joffen at November 11, 2011 08:40 AM (zLeKL)
Posted by: Mitch Daniels at November 11, 2011 08:41 AM (pLTLS)
In fact, by my (possibly inaccurate) count, most Cain defenders during the whole dreary episode didn't even want him to be the nominee.
Hey, stop using facts and logic and stuff.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 08:41 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: robtr at November 11, 2011 08:41 AM (MtwBb)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:43 AM (21lBC)
Posted by: Truman North at November 11, 2011 08:44 AM (I2LwF)
Sorry I'm too much of a pussy beta male and my whore wife kept me from running. I coulda been a contenda!
Annnnd I was about to be all snotty and indignant and nasty about how this is why we can't have nice candidates and then saw whose sock it was.
*toescuff* Sorry for the stuff I just called you in my head. *toescuff*
Posted by: alexthechick at November 11, 2011 08:44 AM (VtjlW)
@ 242 I said the "e" word. Sigh. I'll go sit in the dunce corner.
There's nothing wrong with being concerned about electability. However, I think a lot of folks are kinda screwed up in their ideas about what that means.
For instance, people who are resigned to Romney being "the only electable candidate we have" forget some very relevant problems that suggest he isn't. Such as the fact that he'd drive off the base. Such as the fact that once the MSM starts to trumpet the fact that he's the spiritual grandfather of Obamacare (which they will do, the day after he wins the nomination), he will become toxic to independents.
Sorry, but the folks who argue the necessity for Romney on the basis of electability are deluding themselves.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 08:44 AM (+inic)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:45 AM (21lBC)
Posted by: Dave at November 11, 2011 08:47 AM (Xm1aB)
@ 231 Check out the photo on Drudge. He's got his arms wrapped around two women. The one on the right has enough makeup and eye shadow on her face to sink a small canoe -- plus her hair teased into some snake-like abomination. They both are wearing tops cut so low their nips are just about popped out.
Odd - I looked at the photo on Drudge and just saw Cain wearing casual clothes while taking a campaign photo with a couple of average looking women (as well as a couple of guys, too). I missed the make-up that could sink a canoe. I missed the snake-like abomination hair. I missed the pimp hat.
Guess it's all just a matter of what people want to see.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 08:48 AM (+inic)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:48 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: Joffen at November 11, 2011 08:48 AM (zLeKL)
He seems to have walked it back some in the last day or so, but he was hitting the Tardasil heavy there for a while.
I dunno what brought it on, and I wouldn't want to speculate. But I hope he doesn't aim the shit-spray at any other Repub candidates. Instead, let them rise or fall on the issues. Or, better, spew some of that venom at the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 11, 2011 12:17 PM (HkOAc)
All I can say is that while not a supporter of Mr. Cain's I did like him and did not want him to be guilty, I did not think Ace was being unfair. He pointed it out when evidence pointed towards Cain's innocence (Allred), and was careful to distinguish between known facts and conclusions. As I said at the time, I think he should have waited longer for more facts to come out before going public with conclusions, but he was not irrational of disengenuous about it.
Some of those who disagreed did so both rationally and passionately, but most seemed to respond primarily out of emotion and with very poor logic in many cases ("This superficially looks like the charges against Thomas and Cosby, ergo they must be false," "many accusations were false, ergo we should assume that these were false," etc.) Ace did get angry and doubled down on his conclusions, which was a mistake, but given the nature of much of his opposition I have trouble blaming him.
Admittedly, my sympathy may be colored by the fact that I have been in several debates on this blog when it was made abundantly clear that many people, including some who from their jobs ought to know better, do not carefully read what others have written, miss a great deal of nuance, and respond viciously to an imaginary position. It is virtually impossible to respond properly to someone that refuses to read what you have actually written, and it can be absolutely infuriating to, for example, be labelled an apologist for slavery for pointing out that William T. Sherman tended towards brutality all through his life and thus may not be someone to unthinkingly emulate.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 08:49 AM (MSCON)
@ 256 I'll just sit here and wait for all these Cainiacs to join me on the Perry train.
That's gonna be hard to do. I hear that train blew a boiler.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 08:50 AM (+inic)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 11, 2011 08:50 AM (21lBC)
If Perry supporters want to be irritated (or if Cain and Romney supporters want to rub one out), go read RS McCain's interview/love-fest with Mark Block, who continues to double down on accusing Perry's camp of dropping a dime on Politico.
Posted by: Y-not at November 11, 2011 08:50 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:51 AM (14jKX)
Riiiight because (bullshit clause-"as of today")
-I HERMAN CAIN cannot support Rick Perry if he is the nominees against Obama.-Herman Cain
IOW Perry who served his country is worse than Obama.
Happy Veterans' Day!
Herman Cain was helping the Navy on their ballistics program. To say that's less of a service than Perry is like saying the people working on the Manhattan project didn't play an important role.
Herman Cain even wanted to sign up for the military, but the program directors said he's more important helping them with their program than doing that.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 08:51 AM (4f7GR)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:52 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: Clutch Cargo
The single reason to vote for Newt--and it's a good one...
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at November 11, 2011 08:53 AM (h1p5V)
Posted by: Y-not at November 11, 2011 08:53 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:55 AM (14jKX)
He's my deep deep backup behind Perry, but after the Iowa thing where he touted his "saving" of gasohol and had no other substance in his 10 minute speech, I am not super happy about him.
Posted by: Y-not at November 11, 2011 08:56 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: willow at November 11, 2011 08:56 AM (h+qn8)
I don't know. I know that Cain pointed out Planned Parenthood's racist past concerning Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood got extremely pissy.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 08:56 AM (4f7GR)
What's "irrational" about thinking we should actually expect some credible evidence to be presented concerning allegations before we actively participate in destroying a candidate's election bid?
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 12:35 PM (+inic
That there is an example of begging the question. You may not have found it credible, but others did.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 08:56 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 08:57 AM (14jKX)
You missed ace's post on Rush and how he (ace) was being attacked by Rush.
Classic!
BTW, he pointed out that he might be innocent when it turned out these women had some...credibility gaps.
Bad couple of days for ace. I agree with whoever said he must have been injected with Gardasil...
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:57 AM (x7g7t)
safe in the bowels of the Pentagon....during Vietnam...
He was doing smart person work.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 08:59 AM (4f7GR)
Posted by: General Jack D. Ripper at November 11, 2011 12:52 PM (IhHdM)
They aren't and they aren't?
No wonder I get slapped so damn much.
Posted by: Blindside at November 11, 2011 08:59 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: Joffen at November 11, 2011 09:00 AM (zLeKL)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:01 AM (14jKX)
because they are more principled.
Right?
Lol, you're acting kind of butthurt here. He said he didn't know if he could fully support Perry. I understand that. I couldn't full support McCain.
Still voted for him though.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 09:01 AM (4f7GR)
@ 288 That there is an example of begging the question. You may not have found it credible, but others did.
Then it's no more begging the question than was done by those who thought the fake sexual harassment allegations should be reason enough to end Cain's candidacy.
The main difference, apparently, is that I apparently have higher standards for evidence. Such as, it needs to actually be evidence, rather than just accusation.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 09:02 AM (+inic)
I'll level with. I'm leaning Cain still at this point, but at least I'd vote for Perry if he won the nomination, and I am also open to Gingrich at this point. That being said, the fact that Perry flew planes means diddly to me. It really does.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 09:04 AM (+inic)
You're a Liberal aren't you?
No wonder Cain is "winning" 17.8% of the Democrat vote in that Iowa poll-all 12 of them-wth that's about.
About as liberal as Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman or F.A. Hayek.
Not everyone is a mathematician. Not everyone is physically apt to be a soldier on the front lines either. Cain's use in the ballistic missile program was far more useful and likely helped save soldier's lives and kill enemies.
Perry was in the Airforce and I don't believe he saw any combat.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 09:06 AM (4f7GR)
BTW, didn't the guy doing the sting on Planned Parenthood wear a hat as part of his pimp ensemble?
There was a guy in that video?
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 11, 2011 09:07 AM (6d9Y3)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:08 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:09 AM (14jKX)
The main difference, apparently, is that I apparently have higher standards for evidence. Such as, it needs to actually be evidence, rather than just accusation.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 11, 2011 01:02 PM (+inic)
Like: money paid out to accusers long before he was a candidate, Cain's attempts at deflection, the constant changes in his story and his seeming reluctance to take steps to prove himself innocent? That is evidence. You didn't find it compelling, I found it suggestive but inconclusive, and Ace found it more compelling, I guess. People can legitimately disagree over an interpretation of evidence, you know.
I still want to know about that hotel room, incidentally.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 11, 2011 09:12 AM (MSCON)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:12 AM (14jKX)
There is more *risk* in being a pilot when compared to "piloting" your desk .
Not a "libertarian" more of a neoliberal like Maggie Thatcher or Reagan. Reagan read Mises, Bastat, Hayek, etc.
Still socially conservative as well.
I don't care about his *risk*. Are you seriously saying that Rick Perry is better than Cain because he flew some airplanes?
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 09:13 AM (4f7GR)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:13 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:15 AM (14jKX)
Now why don't you explain why Herman thinks the better option is to let Obama win another four years?
Because you can't be taken seriously and you're extremely butthurt over any comment that disparages Rick Perry. He said he couldn't "fully" support Rick Perry.
I can't either when it comes to me being heartless over instate tuition for illegals so they can get jobs that they can't legally work at.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 09:19 AM (4f7GR)
I don't know, I haven't heard his explanation. I could have easily understood it if he were talking about Romney, as I will for the first time ever not vote for a Republican President in the general election if Romney is the nominee, but I have no idea what he means by Perry.
I'm guessing the worst case scenario for Perry is that he happens to be the governor of a conservatively run state so that of course the economy of Texas is better than anywhere else and that even a rock could have done just as well as he did. Still I'd vote for him if he was the nominee, but then his open borders type stance isn't as big as deal to me as it is to others, maybe that is the one thing the floors Cain?
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 09:20 AM (gUGI6)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:21 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: John Galt at November 11, 2011 09:22 AM (9NQ6I)
Tasker,
Then again, maybe Rick Perry said something to Cain in private that we haven't heard about, maybe that's why Cain said what he did. I can't really judge him on this since I'm pretty sure I don't know all the information, do you know what Rick Perry said to Cain in private? I guess I should assume you do since you are so adament in your position.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 09:23 AM (gUGI6)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:24 AM (14jKX)
You're asking a man to prove a negative. He handled it pretty well if he's still leading in the CBS poll, leading in Florida according to Rasmussen and Quinnipiac and is still leading in Iowa.
As dumb as this sounds, his inconsistencies, seeming fumble and human-like reaction to the accusations made him fucking endearing to most voters.
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 09:26 AM (4f7GR)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:27 AM (14jKX)
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 01:20 PM (gUGI6)
Perry has an 'open borders' stance? Really? Can you direct me to when/where he's advocated for 'open borders'?
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 09:27 AM (X6akg)
tasker,
I think there is a combination of things in Cain's mind, just as there is in my mind about Romney. He must really think that Perry would be worse for this country in the long run than Obama. Since I don't see that being the case, I'll let him have his opinion and he can vote his way. However, I do see Romney being worse off for the country in the long run than Obama (a lot of that has to do with assuming at least one house of congress stays republican, I have to admit).
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 09:29 AM (gUGI6)
Tami,
As you quoted, it was "open borders type" stance, not "open borders".
Shall I continue or are you aware of his positions enough to understand?
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 09:31 AM (gUGI6)
Posted by: tasker at November 11, 2011 09:32 AM (14jKX)
How, exactly, does this constitute an "open borders type stance"?
Posted by: TH at November 11, 2011 09:36 AM (nyHxK)
Shall I continue or are you aware of his positions enough to understand?
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 01:31 PM (gUGI6)
Oh please....do continue.
Posted by: Tami at November 11, 2011 09:37 AM (X6akg)
Posted by: jjshaka at November 11, 2011 09:37 AM (4zeZx)
Listen up, punks, Cain's my main man because he's got the most experience governing, dealing with the political opposition, getting conservative bills passed into laws, like tort reform and tax retorms, balancing a budget in hard times without raising a penny of taxes, plus his track record of judicial appointments, agency appointments and cabinet-level appointments speaks for itself.
Gingrich is my 2nd main man because he's won so many major elections, has the broadest appeal to swing voters in competetive states, is as anti-D.C. establishment as they come, has zero baggage on such items as bimbos, divorces and personal spending habits, and given that he's had political irons in the fire throughout the past 12 years the general public automatically will flock to him as a charismatic leader capable of restoring the national economy and managing our wars and our prospective wars.
Cain-Gingrich-Gingrich-Cain, '12. On your feet or on your knees, bitches!
Posted by: Totally Irrational Political Malcontent at November 11, 2011 09:58 AM (f8XyF)
Posted by: Mike Devx at November 11, 2011 10:02 AM (kEFed)
Posted by: SpiritCrusher at November 11, 2011 10:08 AM (YzHRr)
as is typical of cain supporter they are being dishonest. cain said he "could not support..." there was no qualification, but keep supporting the guy and stand by mark block!!
http://tinyurl.com/6o4e7bu
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 10:12 AM (xAq1C)
Posted by: The Committee to Elect Jeb Bush in 2016, K. Rove, Chairman at November 11, 2011 10:19 AM (QwdsI)
Posted by: The Committee to Elect Jeb Bush in 2016, K. Rove, Chairman at November 11, 2011 10:21 AM (QwdsI)
Posted by: WatchAndLearn at November 11, 2011 10:21 AM (4f7GR)
Are we watching the same debates? 9-9-9 ring a bell?
Posted by: GergS at November 11, 2011 10:28 AM (2okAn)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler at November 11, 2011 10:29 AM (bRdb3)
Posted by: Kerry at November 11, 2011 10:40 AM (ZZarF)
nation.foxnews.com
Also, the media keeps repeating the lie in terms of the number of women who have accused Cain. So far, we know ONE woman who filed a complaint at the NRA and was given a relatively small amount of money (still no facts as to whether it was severance or a settlement). And then we have the lovely, credible Bialek w/ Allred. Her story does not even stand up to the laugh test. We have absolutely no facts or proof re: the alleged second claim at the NRA. And, the press repeatedly refers to an anonymous woman who said she was THINKING about filing a claim while she was employed by the NRA. Somehow an anonymous woman THINKING about filing a claim gets counted as "woman #3". The media has decided this is going ot be a story about woman after woman accusing Cain of sexual harassment. Cain MUST be found to be a serial sexual harasser. Period. Any information to the contrary therefore must be filtered out and ignored.
Posted by: mike bell at November 11, 2011 10:50 AM (Kz6PE)
Posted by: steevy at November 11, 2011 11:05 AM (7WJOC)
Posted by: TH at November 11, 2011 11:07 AM (nyHxK)
It's probably going to be Newt, because the conservative base hates him less than Romney.
And whether he can win or not - he hasn't even started in on Obama in earnest.
Posted by: JB at November 11, 2011 11:07 AM (7T+Mz)
Wow, the Perry people are still in here crying about Herman Cain. Just look in the mirror and say it to yourselves.
Perry f'up his own campaign. He should have been the front runner easily beating the plastic manankin, but he keeps stumbling. The N***** Rock story didn't do a thing, Herman Cain didn't do it, it has all been Rick! When you stop acting like liberals you will come to this realization. It's all been his own fault and until you people own up to it, you will just look like the rabid loons.
Hermain Cain people shouldn't pour salt into the wound either as Mark Block is someone who needs to be banned from television appearances. He should be forced to man the phone banks and get coffee for the low level staffers.
Posted by: Africanus at November 11, 2011 11:28 AM (Fc7g/)
"I'm convinced that Rick Perry is a Democratic plant"
"Now, come on.
It takes SNL a whole team of writers to make a Republican look that stupid."
Posted by: macintosh at November 11, 2011 11:28 AM (oZfic)
Ann Coulter is punching back.
Posted by: macintosh at November 11, 2011 11:32 AM (oZfic)
In fact, the chance of a false positive is higher that if you were just guessing.
Here you go: http://tinyurl.com/6mlnbdw
Maybe you can go back to claiming it was all about racism. You know, because everytime someone doubts a black man, it's racist.
Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 11:35 AM (pXUfx)
I'm wavering now between being a very reluctant Newt supporter and a very reluctant Mitt supporter.
Gaah.
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at November 11, 2011 11:35 AM (epBek)
Posted by: Militant Moronette at November 11, 2011 11:35 AM (F0o5k)
Maybe someone can tell me lies to make me feel better.
Newt isn't a flake with no leadership skills, he's just been smeared by the media!
Mitt is a principled conservative, honest!
Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at November 11, 2011 11:36 AM (epBek)
Nah, I just supported Al Gore back in the day.
Posted by: Rick Perry at November 11, 2011 11:57 AM (4f7GR)
http://tinyurl.com/cyxlg4a
I don't know why, but this just pisses me the fuck off more than any other story about Cain I've seen.....
Posted by: Porkkky at November 11, 2011 12:19 PM (46ffO)
Tami, sorry was gone for awhile. While I don't disagree completely with Rick Perry on immigration you have asked what sort of positions he has that is an Open Borders Type position, I would assume you mean that in relation to a controlled borders type position:
I'll stick with more recent information. fact one: his dustup with Romney where he complained about the 'magnet' for illegal immigration being jobs. fact two: signed into law tuition breaks for illegal immigrants. fact three: his stated belief that current illegal immigrants should be given work visas and be allowed to cross borders each way with both.
Once again, I don't disagree with all of those, however, for arguments sake, here is the theory:
If jobs and/or education (not to mention healthcare and other services) are the magnets to cause people to break the law and cross the border, then Rick Perry is GUILTY of desiring prople to break the law to cross the border if he supports any of his supposed magnets that cause people to.
Does he support having people cross the border illegally? Yes, he does, by being willing to give them a work visa (granted he is opposed to offer then citizenship), thereby furthering the magnet that he has identified.
Does he support the magnet in giving illegal immigrants the opportunity to have taxpayer funded higher (as well as any) education? Yes, he supports that as well.
Both of those are in stark contrast to a position of CLOSED BORDER policy, and if put on a spectrum between closed and open border would more likely land him in the OPEN BOARD TYPE STANCES.
Now personally, I only agree with one of his immigration stances (in relation to the fence, border control, work visas, education) and that is that the federal government has not given enough work visas to supply the businesses in this country with the appropriately supplied cost effective labor, thus too many illegal immigrants.
However, I still would arrest all the illegal immigrants, deport them and force them to get work visas before they come back in. At the same time, the number of work visas would be tremendously greater than it is currently - looks like they might be 10 to 15 million short of equilibrium.
Posted by: doug at November 11, 2011 12:30 PM (gUGI6)
doug at November 11, 2011 04:30 PM (gUGI6)
you make no sense, if a person has a work visa they arent illegal are they?? the idea is to make it easier for low income workers to get visas. you may not like it but its not open borders. and allowing illegals to get tuition at the same rate if they meet the qualifications for resident tuition is not a taxpayer funded education. they still have to pay tuition. he is on the record being against amnesty, asking for more boots on the ground on the border and sending texas rangers to the border. he is absolutely not open borders.
Posted by: chas at November 11, 2011 01:33 PM (xAq1C)
Recognizing that fact and basing one's plans on what is possible isn't an "open borders type stance", it's just a sensible policy. Any criticism of Rick Perry on this point, by the way, applies equally to the Republican-controlled Texas legislature. Do they all fail the border control purity test? Forget the big tent...any political party that doctrinaire will be able to hold its nominating convention in a pup tent in someone's back yard.
Posted by: TH at November 11, 2011 02:04 PM (nyHxK)
Posted by: Greg at November 11, 2011 02:08 PM (AixDW)
The little blurb for the appearance says "Herman Cain is reportedly prepared to make a major announcement"
Posted by: macintosh at November 11, 2011 02:43 PM (oZfic)
Posted by: conservative/moronette constituancy identifying advisoryy at November 11, 2011 03:20 PM (bRKhy)
Posted by: The Space Between ePub at November 11, 2011 04:58 PM (SmqHZ)
Posted by: V is for Vengeance epub at November 11, 2011 05:32 PM (09Ek7)
Mark Block Says He'd Do Things Differently, and Also Exactly the Same.
http://tinyurl.com/8x6np8q
Posted by: Tricia at November 11, 2011 05:33 PM (gqG91)
The little blurb for the appearance says "Herman Cain is reportedly prepared to make a major announcement"
----- It's probably to say Block is gone but watch it if he says that. What happened in the last election when Block was no longer in the campaign....he was in the campaign still. They just hid it but got caught.
Posted by: Tricia at November 11, 2011 05:40 PM (gqG91)
The little blurb for the appearance says "Herman Cain is reportedly prepared to make a major announcement"
---------------------------------------- It's probably to say Block is gone but watch it if he says that. What happened in the last election when Block was "no longer part of the campaign"....he was in the campaign still. They just hid it but got caught.
Posted by: Tricia at November 11, 2011 05:42 PM (gqG91)
Posted by: Currency Wars ePub at November 11, 2011 05:45 PM (kC+ok)
Woot. We have it in the bag now.
Posted by: joanne kloppenburg at November 11, 2011 06:39 PM (GTbGH)
There are so much to learn from your post here, Uma, well done.
Posted by: Elder Scrolls V ePub at November 11, 2011 06:51 PM (SHaGT)
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Posted by: barliate at November 11, 2011 09:25 PM (5JNp6)
Posted by: Herve Leger outlet at November 27, 2011 05:35 PM (Mdyrn)
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Posted by: Heman Cain at November 11, 2011 07:27 AM (pXUfx)