1 The [delightful Asian folk] are even more delusional than that Fuller dude. It's India on the move.

2 Is that near Indiana? And what about those cool medicine men that Barry likes at his pep rallies?

3 Watch the racial slurs, dude.

4 If Obama had a pair, he'd say, "Fine, we'll get our cheap crap in India!" Problem solved.

5 Those Indians have a nice football team, too. And that Peyton Manning is groovy. If his dick is as big as his forehead, have him call ASAP.

6

Add to that the fact that China is still run by a bunch of authoritarian Communists

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

7 Color me shocked.

8 No Prob. Is it still OK to say Stank here?

9 And China is trying to flex their financial muscles at a time when much of their own strength is illusory.

Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.

10 We should arrange to give Pakistan to India. They're a useless, unstable nation that just sucks up foreign aid and harbors our enemies. Gandhi was wrong. It would piss off the Chinese. It would solve so many of the world's problems.

11 Damn.  So when I go buy stuff at WalMart, even the change they give me is Made in China?

12 Who do you trust more...The ChiComs, or the US...We've played this game before..I'd feel fine, but our Pres isn't pro-US.

13 So.....hows all that silver I bought in 2005 look now?

14 The problem as I see it is the fact of the movement of  the USD as the world reserve currency. What happens then? What are the ramifications of such an event? What will it mean for all of us? Our government? Our economy? I'm totally lost on it all as I am hardly an economist, yet worried as hell. It surely can't be good and in fact could be a totally life altering  event. Any thoughts other than "we are boned". LOL. (I do read this every day, but rarely post).

15 I'm certainly not a monetary guy so I'm probably talking out of turn.  I'll take it on your knowledge that the Yuan won't be the next world currency, but I think the verbalization of statement by the Chinese that is the real headline.  It is no longer verboten to formally say to the world that the USD is trashed.  We're boned.

16 Hugh Hendry has been a China bear for a long time, mainly for reasons like this. China is pissing away hundreds of billions (maybe trillions) of dollars on stuff like this. China's banks are awash in bad loans that the government hides from the international finance world. Meanwhile, their huge population is suffering from the same demographic problems we are, only on a vastly larger scale: an aging workforce, not enough children to support the generation now retiring, and a rickety social-welfare system that is likely to collapse under the weight of the legions of elderly in coming decades.

17 Proofed this time...

I'm certainly not a monetary guy so I'm probably talking out of turn.  I'll take it on your knowledge that the Yuan won't be the next world currency, but I think the verbalization of the statement by the Chinese is the real headline.  It is no longer verboten to formally say to the world that the USD is trashed and will be replaced.  We're boned.

18 The defense is an offense.  This is a smoke screen to confuse "The One".

It will work, he's an idiot.

19 12 Who do you trust more...The ChiComs, or the US...We've played this game before..I'd feel fine, but our Pres isn't pro-US.

Trust neither, but since the US is a more open society than the ChiComs, there are infinitely more ways to identify and root out corruption here than in Tom Friedman's Fantasy Land. 

The CCCP is China's own worst enemy.  Like with all authoritarian Communist regimes, people join the Party to get cushy government jobs and to get rich by taking bribes from corrupt public and private officials.  

Corruption throughout China is systemic and rampant, all the way from the local Communist-run police stations, to the state-run (or managed) businesses, and even their military. 

20 Jintao also announced his intention to make the Renminbi (Yuan) a bigger player in the world currency markets.

lol. Sure, float that currency, Hu. I dare you to.

21 *cough*

22

China makes all our crap and pours the waste they create into their rivers. China's human rights standards are not acceptable.  No matter -we need them to buy our debt so we can have Free Health Care!

 

23 Stand By For Heavy Rolls: China's Economy Heading For Heavy Weather? http://www.practicalstate.com/?p=4665 Cheers

24 How am I going to break this to Thomas Friedman?

25 Commies forever ... And how many tens of millions had to die for their dream?

26 On it's face Jintao's statement makes no sense whatsoever.

The fucked up thing is the only reason the US Dollar is the standard bearer is because no one has anything better.

Someone should tell O'Bumbles that winning by default is not really winning.

27 We should arrange to give Pakistan to India.

I'm not sure India wants them back.

28 #17  Meanwhile, their huge population is suffering from the same demographic problems we are, only on a vastly larger scale: an aging workforce, not enough children to support the generation now retiring, and a rickety social-welfare system that is likely to collapse under the weight of the legions of elderly in coming decades.

I love how Mark Steyn characterizes China as the wannabe "gay superpower since Sparta". 

/In the end, there will be only chaos.

29 Monty _ It occurs to me that the worst international catastrophes occur when countries start amking demands their own economies and currencies can't back up.

30 1914 + 1929 + 1979 = 2011

31 OMG!  This means some rich fucks will have to find new ways to steal!

32 1914 + 1929 + 1979 = 2011
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 17, 2011 10:47 AM

You going all Jared Loughner on us here?

33 The Chinese are being opportunistic at a time when the U.S. has an incompetent weakling in the White House.  They're counting on Barry ignoring this so he can work his short irons game.

34 1914 + 1929 + 1979 = 2011
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 17, 2011 10:47 AM

You going all Jared Loughner on us here?

Not totally.  I do not own a g-string.

Also, no one has blamed a single instance of my bad behavior on Sarah Palin.  Yet.

35

People in the West, specifically academics, tend to side with China or have a glowing smirk when talking about China's ascent and our decline. They often site recent history. The Opium Wars, the Boxer Rebellion, the Japanese Occupation, etc. China is painted an a poor colonized nation that is emerging to challange the west and finally get even.

However, these journalists, pundits, pseudo-historian types, and left wing editorialists neglect to look at Chinese history prior to 1800 AD (or C.E. if you've just recently graduated highschool).

China's history is a remarkably violent one. People who speak of China's military rise and aggression as harmless falls on deaf ears in Asia. We in the West may only remember the 1800s, 1900s, 2000s, but the people of Asia remember everything before that.

There is a reason China has to deal with the rogue states of Iran, North Korea, Syria, etc. There is a reason that China has no allies.  In the past 50 years, at least 20 countries have fought with American troops in conflicts. Many nations in Europe sacrificed soldiers lives and their money for our war in Iraq which reallly had little to do with Europe's defense. They did so because they value our alliance.  Can China site any allies of its own willing to do so? If China were to enter a conflict, how do you think the Vietmanese, Indians, Japanese, South Koreans, Russians, Indonesians, Thai's, and others in the vacinity act?

China's power is overstated. As big and powerful as it is, it is surrounded by wary neighbors who are conducting their own military build ups in response to China's. A Pacific NATO will doubtless come into formal existence in the next decade.

 

I know this isn't directly tied to the currency argument, but it needs to be looked at when viewing China's ascent.  As with Lenin's Soviet Union in the 1920s, Mussolini's Italy in the 1930s, and Japan in the 1980s, it is a common american past time to overstate another nations rise while understating our own strengths. I know every media outlet is jumping on the China bandwagon, including Mao Tse Tom Friedman, but it would behoove us to keep a historical perspective of how such phenomenon's have played out in recent history.

36 cite, not site.

37 cite, not site.

sight?

38 Hu are you? Hu Hu, Hu-Hu?

39

I'm not worried Obama and crew will send the SEIU, the Teamsters Unions to organize the People of the Republic of China and That will Take them down faster than the west.

a girl can dream right.

 

40 One more thing:

Can someone name me anything currently in existence that is not a "product of the past"?

41

China wants Taiwan back, above all else.  And their economic growth has given them confidence they can get it.  They're building up their military strength, jingoistic nationalist rhetoric, and financial leverage in a thorough run-up to invasion.  And they'll strike before Jugears leaves office.  Who wouldn't?

With the Chicoms, it's all about Taiwan.  They claim infinite patience but their greed and Obama's last 2 yrs in office will be the temptation that pushes them to strike.  Just watch.   

42 Can someone name me anything currently in existence that is not a "product of the past"?

I mean apart from that baguette from the future that shutdown CERN.

43 I so grad you not say Godzirra.

44

"Can someone name me anything currently in existence that is not a "product of the past"?"

Nah. Everything new happened long ago.

45 It is no longer verboten to formally say to the world that the USD is trashed. Frankly, I don't think that having the USD as the world's de facto reserve currency has been good for us (or for anyone else, really). It's a fiat currency, for one thing; and the result of that is just what you've seen over the past five decades -- creeping inflation and systematic sovereign indebtedness. Having an unbacked reserve currency prompts everyone to overspend because everyone thinks they can just manufacture more wealth out of thin air. (Because they think that "wealth" and "money" are the same thing, and they're not.) I think that if the US is to regain some measure of fiscal sanity, we're going to have to revert back to some kind of asset-backed currency -- whether based on some international standard (an asset-weighted basket of commodities or something) or unilaterally.

46 Posted by: Roger Daltrey at January 17, 2011 10:55 AM (hlG96)

The new boss, same as the old one.

47 All I can contribute, I know a CFO from a big US Company. He tells me that China doesn't allow them to transfer any assets out of the country. No dollars, no yuens, nothing.

48 I think that if the US is to regain some measure of fiscal sanity, we're going to have to revert back to some kind of asset-backed currency -- whether based on some international standard (an asset-weighted basket of commodities or something) or unilaterally.

Wanna hear about my ideas for using weed as currency?

49

China wants Taiwan back as an ego boost and for some strategic reasons -- they're interested in Africa (well, the resources in Africa) and somewhat interested in S. America (well, resources in S. America) -- if they get Taiwan they'll treat it like Hong Kong if they are smart.

China isn't going anywhere (except eventually down the crapper) until they figure out a way to power their economic development and obtain a more secure way to feed themselves -- why do you think they've been building that deep water navy?

As for America, we aren't exactly boned yet -- but we will be if we continue along this entitlement path and keep allowing immigrants in who are a drain on society (and I'm not talking about one group, or illegal vs. legal -- immigrants who, hell forget integrating, how about just want to work instead of run drug and prostitution gangs while living off welfare?).  Our currency isn't worth shit...but then again nobody else's currency is either.

 

50

Not to be a Manual of Style here, but it's awkward to keep referring to notable people by their first name unless you know them personally.

It's "Jintao this" and "Jintao that" all throughout the piece.  For goodness' sake, the man's surname is Hu.  Jintao is his given name.

51 45

"Can someone name me anything currently in existence that is not a "product of the past"?"

Nah. Everything new happened long ago.

Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at January 17, 2011 11:03 AM (HaYO4)

Buggy Whips?

52

Psych!

Not being a banking or financial expert, but there are a couple 'o problems with this new-fangled New World Order.

1. Nobody really knows what any big banks balance sheet really means.

2. Nobody really knows what is being hidden by the sovereign debt crisis.

3. China is much stronger financially and economically than it was 30 years ago, but what is an accurate and trusty measuring stick for all this?  How much "bad debt" are they hiding.  It's like a company that has two sets of books on its finances.  One set they show the world that shows 8-9% GDP Annual growth.  This attracts investors, business, etc.

The other set (which in fact, may not actually exist , but we're speculating here, work with me) shows the non-performing loans and the money the Central Government in China has collected and spent and didn't  show any return on, that just disappeared down a rat hole  (think US Fed subisdies to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, stimulus money that is actually paying State unemployment benefits, etc).

China is an immensley poor country, even though it is not as poor today as was 20 years ago (or even ten).  They also have immense manpower that could be freed up if they mechanized farming (still very labor intensive to save jobs).

They will be stronger in 10 years than they are now, but not sure how it will actually look, relative to the rest of the world. 

53 53

Not to be a Manual of Style here, but it's awkward to keep referring to notable people by their first name unless you know them personally.

It's "Jintao this" and "Jintao that" all throughout the piece.  For goodness' sake, the man's surname is Hu.  Jintao is his given name.

Posted by: Lou at January 17, 2011 11:08 AM (IH3P2)

What are Hu trying to say? I don't understand Lou.

54 If I can't tell if India or China made my cheap, crappy cool girl's bicycle helmet, who cares?

55 China will grow old before it grows rich.

56 Dr. Ben Franklin could have fixed the China situation.

57 Hey Lou.. well, those damned Commies can just get on board  with doin' their names the correct way as in the good ole U. S. of A.  Goddamned furriners..

58 Kinda funny he used the words default world reserve currency. I'll show you default. We're going to do sex to you now BIATCH.

59 They will be stronger in 10 years than they are now I dun' theenk so, Lucy Why? Population decline. Too many old people, too few workers to replace them. A corrupt and inefficient government and a grotesque amount of malinvestment in the wrong kinds of infrastructure. A deep-seated and chronic lack of entrepreneurship among the citizens. Endemic corruption, and international friction with Japan, South Korea, India, Vietnam, Thailand, and (probably) Russia. (Don't forget that the Russians and the Chinese have fought several wars, the most recent armed conflict being in 1969 during their border dispute.) China's strength (such as it is) flows from asymmetricalities in the global trade system. This cannot continue -- for many obvious reasons -- and China's position will deteriorate pretty quickly.

60 The idea that China could be an international reserve currency is humorous. First any reserve currency must be allowed to float; it cannot be pegged. There is no other currency to which a reserve currency could be pegged.

Thus, China would have to forgo its desire to stay a mercantilist, export-driven economy and would instead have to allow import prices in China to fall. Doing so would lead to great instability at the state-owned exporters. The state is the Communist Party. IOW, the Communists in charge would be forced to accept short-term financial peril to "make a statement against The Man".

That never happens.

This whole thing is stupid chest thumping on the part of the Chinese.

61

Leaving aside the communism, China is still one of the worst places on earth, and the left, led by Tom Friedman, couldn't love it more. It's an instructive example of how much evil leftists are willing to tolerate in "the other" while condemning America's slightest fault.

Leftists like to talk about how racist America is. China is one of the most racist countries in the world. If you think of China, you are thinking of the Han Chinese, even though there _used_ to be scores of various ethnic groups in China. For decades the Han have been colonizing Tibet and the Uighur lands and areas in which they formerly didn't live, forcing out the indigenous people and stamping out their culture while replacing it with homogenous Han culture. Free Tibet? Who are we supposed to be freeing it from? The Han Chinese, who have turned the Potala Palace into a tourist attraction. 

Leftists like to talk about how sexist America is. China has been carrying out genocide against girls for decades (and the resulting population imbalance is about to come home to roost).

Leftists like to talk about what a polluter America is. China builds a coal-fired power plant every month.

Leftists like to talk about how America coddles despots. China is in a mad rush to corner the world's commodities, and never asks about the human rights records of the dirtbags they buy their oil and other commodities from.

Leftists like to talk about what warmongers Americans area. China has been helping to feed its growth by proliferating weapons to any country with the capital to buy them.

Leftist like to talk about the American gap between the rich and poor, but conveniently gloss over the far larger gap between the billionaires living in the coastal areas of China with the peasants who lack plumbing and electricity and still farm with hand tools in the "people's republic."

Remember lefties, always blame America first.

62 Also: the point about calling him "Jintao" rather than "Hu" is well taken. I forgot that in China, the family name comes first.

63 #42, Maybe, But China will have to make damn sure they can take it with little to no push back. Those folks are all about saving face. Their military buildup looks impressive from the outside but so did the Soviets. Conventional weaponry by numbers, they look superior. They are not, yet. We are still developing weapons and technology and they are still stealing it. If Jugears McFuckstick allows any invasion to go unchallenged. He will go down in history as the biggest Presidential failure of foreign policy ever. His ego can't allow that. That is what may save Taiwan.

64 Hu are you.

65

36  That's exactly correct.  Couple that with their demographics and the fact that once you get into interior China (where most people don't go, and the Chinese aren't very thrilled with you doing) the place is a third world country; China has been on an infrastructure kick, but they've got a long way to go, and they don't have as many skilled laborers as they like to report (another reason why farming isn't mechanized; it isn't all about saving jobs).

Does this mean they should be shrugged off? No...this is when it gets really dangerous in regards to China -- they could wind up doing most anything given the right conditions (which aren't hard to get -- shit gets started over some of the most inconsequential and trifling matters: a telegram, a missing soldier...).

66 Population decline. Too many old people, too few workers to replace them. A corrupt and inefficient government and a grotesque amount of malinvestment in the wrong kinds of infrastructure.

The MFM is still pushing that myth that China is the world's powerhouse for manufacturing. They are NOT.

They have all the same problems that we do except that they have 100% communism instead of 50% communism and fascism. But we have the EPA and OSHA so that balances out.

67 Greenies damaging National Mall.

And you can bet the libs will screw up the China mess, too.

68 If everyone on this site got 100 friends to all stop buying Chinese crap, Hu would shut up rather quickly.

69 Hu are you? Hu Hu, Hu-Hu?

/puts on sunglasses

70 Wednesday is Robert E. Lee day. Will we be celebrating that? If we can give a Holiday to a commie perhaps we can give one to him as well. 

71 oops wrong thread.

72 HU R YU?

73 We celebrate Confederate History day here.

74 I figure the Chicoms have about worn out their marketing ability and now want  to print money like Turbo Timmy.

75 Can you say tariff? Don 't let your currency climb. We will adjust it for you.

76 26 Commies forever ... And how many tens of millions had to die for their dream?

Posted by: tarpon at January 17, 2011 10:36 AM (g0QB

It's high time we have a Mao Day paid gubberment day off in America to remember all the Chinese that died so that the survivors could buy our debt.

77 Imagine what happens when the dollar stores raise their prices to a buck and a half, and when all the stuff on the shelves at Target, Wal-Mart, all the outlet malls, all the electronics stores, actually, all the stores everywhere, is priced at twenty to fifty percent higher.

Couple that with five-buck gas, and what have you got?

78 "He will go down in history as the biggest Presidential failure of foreign policy ever. His ego can't allow that. That is what may save Taiwan."

The problem is that he would never regard it as a failure.  Anyhow, the game plan is to force the Taiwanese to capitulate which is something The One would definitely cooperate with. 
What The One won't take into account (or comprehend) is that Taiwan may actually be willing fight and die for their freedom.
It's this kind of miscalculation that leads to real war.

79 #82 Good Point, I still don't think it will happen. Then again, maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. I never thought Jugears McFuckstick would be President either.

80 With Hu YouGoingToBowToNext backed by TOTUS how could there be any problem

81 local Communist-run police stations, to the state-run (or managed) businesses, and even their military.


Aren't these all run by the same bunch of party guys at the top?  In Russian the name was nomenklatura sp? right?  I dunno WTF that is in Chinese.

82 香油脂

83 71 Greenies damaging National Mall.

And you can bet the libs will screw up the China mess, too.

Posted by: Tea Party Local 101 at January 17, 2011 11:29 AM (kb0wl)

Am I paranoid for thinking the real reason to deny the use of the national mall to future public gatherings is to prevent future Right/Wing/Tea party/Glenn Beck-sponsored gatherings?

84 I think that if the US is to regain some measure of fiscal sanity, we're going to have to revert back to some kind of asset-backed currency

Monty,
How is "backed" <> "fixed" ?  and if fixed don't you immediately get "Bad money drives out good if their exchange rate is set by law." 

85 Dave, Money (currency) is inherently prone to 'breakage' because wealth is not constant or fixed-rate (inflow or outflow). What we interpret as "breakage" is really our denial of the bedrock supply/demand cycle. We stupid humans keep thinking that we can figure out some method or magic to smooth the hills and valleys and make the real world conform to our wishes. We can't. You still get panics and depressions with gold-backed currencies; I'm not suggesting otherwise. But an asset-backed currency is inherently resistant to the kind of currency fuckery that's been going on since the end of World War II (Bretton Woods). And I think the notion of a "central bank" for sovereigns" has been proven to be an atrocious idea -- our own Fed has done far more harm than good over its existence. I guess what I'm saying is that if you crave long-term stability in the economy, you're going to be disappointed. It doesn't exist; it will never exist. The best you can hope for is to make the down-times less catastrophic than they might otherwise be, and an asset-backed currency is a good way to do that.

86 What China lacks, militarily, is reserves and legs. They can't go far and they can't go long, but they can pack a hell of a momentary punch.

Their troops' experience is largely limited to killing peasants and protesters.

Their regional allies are unreliable.

Their enemies are legion.

So, they bluster. Unfortunately, the fact that it's a bluff doesn't mean it can't go horribly wrong. I think proliferation is a bigger problem that invasion, but I could be horribly wrong.

The mad Chinese general of movie fame could really exist, quite easily.

87 I say if various Asian heathen want us to call them by their last names and not by their first names, they might just try writing their first names first and their last names last.

Or is that not The Way Of The Metric System, or whatever?....

88 I suspect that a lot of the Chinese president's bluster is for the benefit of the rubes back home. 

89 Monty,
So we're stuck with Fluctuations (well then fluc you white guys too). 

I'd have to study up to debate whether back to fixed is better than the $ and everything else floats somewhat conditioned by umpteen political, economic & just plain trader Liars Poker factors.

A basket of goodies at least avoids the gold isn't currently distributed by wealth either out of the ground, in it or how fast it can be dug up problem.

90 The one thing I love about China and I wish would export to the US--big numeric countdown timers on traffic lights!  I hate coming up on a light at speed thinking I'm making the green and then have to slam on my brakes.  Or be able to speed up knowing when it's going to turn yellow...  They also countdown how long the red light will be, another good idea.

91 Buddha is laughing while Uncle Sam whistles past the graveyard. Hate to differ with Monty, but the book "When China Rules the World" makes a convincing case that China is nearly unstoppable. Wishful thinking about China won't make things turn out as you hope!

92

Did you all see the headline photo on Drudge this morning?

 

oBOWma strikes again!!

93 Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao  Jintao

there.