1 tl;dl

2 There's a Q&A after the speech so I wouldn't hold your breath during the speech itself.

3
He's okay, but I like him better live in the ring.

4 Last time I held my breath I passed out. Of course, I had just finished a hobo sammich and 8 Martinis, shaken not stirred.

5 Not buying anything the fat dhimmi might be selling.

6 Leadership and Compromise? Lame campaign slogan.

7 Too calm.  I liked him better when he was kicking some union butt.

8 I am hungry for some Krispy Kremes... yumm

9 Also he needs some work on pacing and phrasing speeches.

10 5 Not buying anything the fat dhimmi might be selling.

  He's not thaaat bad. I don't want him to run for POtUS but he's doing good where he is...

11 sick of these guys like Daniels/Ryan/Christie saying what needs to be done while sitting on the sidelines

where is the courage in that?

12 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

13
I liked him better when he was kicking some union butt.
Posted by: Splunge at September 27, 2011 09:26 PM

My thoughts exactly. He's better with an opponent in spontaneous street-fighting.

Marco Rubio gives a better prepared speech.

Anyway, he's right about stuff.

14 Where's buckwheat, Spanky ?

15 This is going great.  I don't what the hell you guys are watching. 

Winning!!

16 Obama isn't a bystander in the Oval Office, that's the problem.

17
Aaaaand Fox News gives up. I think the Q&A will be the good stuff.

18 11 sick of these guys like Daniels/Ryan/Christie saying what needs to be done while sitting on the sidelines

where is the courage in that?

Hose', Ryan is on the front lines in his own position, as is Christie. Plenty of courage there. You don't have to run for President to do a job. Get real.

19 @steevy- Any thread and my day are not complete without your wonderful consistency of message. Thank you for reminding of what is important.

20
I'm not sure what he meant by saying "We hope the president will take charge" etc. Who in hell is still hoping for that? We've all given up and are waiting for January 2013.

But yeah, he's right that Obama is a SCOAMF (although he used a slightly different wording).

21 I don't especially like some of Christie's formulations, like "if there's a problem, you fix it."

Yea, well, for Obama, America is the problem and he's fixing it.

22 I think steevy is n to something.

23 Full speech on cspan

24 _{^{barak obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure}}

25 So he decided definitely NOT to run?

26 Where's buckwheat, Spanky ?

Thor was just saying that the 2012 Presidential debates have some serious MST3000 potential with these two.

27 well it looks like there might be a Fat Man in the Bathtub, or maybe not.........

28 27 So he decided definitely NOT to run?

I think he couldn't turn down Nancy Reagan (I'm not sure I could either), and tried to give a shot at a national-scope speech. Why not?

29 I'm missing the part where the GOP is equal partners in these problems. Enilghten me , chubs.

30 If I had a choice, and I donÂ’t, this moron would vote for Bob McDonnell, Gov. R-Va.

I donÂ’t make the world, I just live in it.

Anybody who can win and retire Obama.

Yep, thatÂ’s my guy

31 I have to share this: I ran across my ex-gf's daughter's twitter. I haven't seen her since she was 6 y/o and now she's almost 17. She's a raging conservative! Posts how much she loves this country and: "Someone bashed Reagan at lunch today. Yeah. They're no longer with us. #libertarian" and "To a libertarian, every day is the 4th of July. #patrioticandproud #ilovemycountry" What's the big deal? Both her parents are Hollywood and crazy. Her mother a real leftard. The girl's all AP classes, debate team, and track. She's sending emails to republican senators and reps and demanding that BOR respond to her substantive emails. lol! I love her! And, she makes sure she watches each debate.

32 Who would win in a wrestling match ? Pilsbury Doughboy or the Michelin Man ?

33 "I plead guilty to optimism"

oh barf - only a former prosecutor could utter that line with a straight face

34 well it looks like there might be a Fat Man in the Bathtub, or maybe not.........

Posted by: Racefan at September 27, 2011 09:33 PM (McRtz)

I always click your links, and they pretty much make me smile.  So, hey, what's this Christie speech?  Who's he talking to and what's he saying?  Cause, gungrabber or not, I am so down with him in the WH.

35 "There is no better place in the world for investment"

Under Obama, I'm not sure that's true any more. Before Obama, I believed it implicitly.

36 Peaches, I'd be up for seeing him in the White House, probably, someday. For now, I class him with Rubio -- a tremendously talented guy who needs some more laps around the track before entering the big race.

37 Under Obama, I'm not sure that's true any more. Before Obama, I believed it implicitly. Posted by: Splunge at September 27, 2011 09:38 PM (2IW5Q) Even if we defeat Obama in 2012... it will never be forgotten he was elected in the first place. That has really shaken my faith in America.

38 I plead guilty to optimism? really? puke.

39 For now, I class him with Rubio -- a tremendously talented guy who needs some more laps around the track before entering the big race. Posted by: Splunge at September 27, 2011 09:40 PM (2IW5Q) He'd be a tremendous guy in Washington. Hell, he'd be a tremendous guy in any town.

40 39 Even if we defeat Obama in 2012... it will never be forgotten he was elected in the first place.

Naah. To me that's one of the great things about America. Yeah, we screw up sometimes. Then we shrug it off and bounce back, rarin to go once again. I value that in people who exhibit that quality, and in my country.

We got over Carter, didn't we?

41 Why hasn't he stripped naked yet?!

42
Chris Christie Speech at the Reagan Library: Full Text
http://goo.gl/Ue7IS

43

i'm not listening to any more RINO's

bedsides i can tell you what he is saying -

"We must Compromise!"

"Save Social Security we much!"

"And Remember - I'm Conservative, just like you!"

44 Christie Doesn't Declare, Ann Coulter Hardest Hit

45 44 Why hasn't he stripped naked yet?! Posted by: Ann Coulter's Obsession at September 27, 2011 09:43 PM (r4t7/) Yeah, I'll bet $ Ann is sitting in front of the TV with her panties around her ankles right now, draining the Duracels in her pocket rocket dry...

46 oh good, the question round

47 Taking questions at his first major national speech takes balls.

48 ~ tap tap tap tap tap ~ Hello! It is I, Hadji, with a quick funny making on my way to the night club for my act. What is the Governor Chris Christie's Middle Name? Willy. Get it? Will - He? Willy. Come on, you Americans. This is not my first language. That is, as they say, Teh Stuff. Well, then, I will leave you with this: What is the name Governor Christie was given during his baptism by the Catholic Church? Wownty. /crickets/ You people suck harder than a tick upon a camel. I will leave the final joke, the payoff, for you to assemble for yourself. I am out of here like Vladimir - Vladimir, the Russian Comic not named Smirnoff. He leaves in a very dramatic fashion. Like him. I go.

49 OK, so how can you be a leader and compromise with people whose fundamental worldview is diametrically opposed to your own? This just doesn't make any sense. It would be like General Patton joining the Nazi party to "try to reason with them." Ridiculous.

50 We plead guilty to spitting in toby's attic.

51 Let me know when Peggy Noone lets me know what she thinks of him.

52 Hot damn.. I love that man..  tears in my eyes.. I would elect him king.

53

39
Even if we defeat Obama in 2012... it will never be forgotten he was elected in the first place.

".. it will never be forgotten ..." This is the point. Remembering the stink makes avoiding piles of dogshit on the street a worthwhile activity ... so let it be with JEF.

54
In New Jersey over the last 20 months, you have actually seen divided government that is working.  To be clear, it does not mean that we have no argument or acrimony.  There are serious disagreements, sometimes expressed loudly—Jersey style.

Here is what we did.  We identified the problems.  We proposed specific means to fix them.  We educated the public on the dire consequences of inaction.  And we compromised, on a bi-partisan basis, to get results.  We took action.

How so you ask?  Leadership and compromise.


No!  Bad Tubby! Bad!

55 Whoa, he's grappling with Perry. Maybe he is thinking about it...

56 oooo, Christie goes after Perry

no in-state tuition for illegals: "and that's not a heartless position, that's a common sense position"

57 wow Christie nailing Perry on immigration

"That is not a heartless position"

58 The Big Question!

59 King Taco.

60 He's better asking questions on his feet than he is giving a speech

61 er, answering, not asking

62

Even if we defeat Obama in 2012... it will never be forgotten he was elected in the first place.

I know--that piece of shit will forever be in the narrative.

63 Christie is so good off the cuff, total opposite of Obama

64 NOT running.  So ends that.

65
No! Bad Tubby! Bad!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 27, 2011 09:46 PM (EeYDk)

 

and exactly what has been fixed, unless by fixed you mean "pushed down the road"

not working anymore, no more road to push down.

66 Regarding the sidebar, it's "fraternity," not "frat." And thankfully, they weren't mine.

67
...each and every time the president lets a moment to act pass him by, his failure is our failure too.


Whut?

68 You can't compromise with the people whose policies are destroying your country.You just can't.

69 And The Answer Is:  Still No

70 - note to GOP Operatives Let Bartlett Christie Be Bartlett Christie -

71 Hi Peach...... Heck, i dont know what he said, i was listening to old Little Feat songs.  I guess he will say yes or no.And how are you these days,good i hope.

72 Fatty is awesome! Happy New Year!

73 Even if we defeat Obama in 2012... it will never be forgotten he was elected in the first place.

I could forget that fucker in about 3 seconds.  If he would only just GO AWAY.

74 We got over Carter, didn't we?

Posted by: Splunge

Well, sort of.

Have we gotten over LBJ, and the advance of Medicare and a host of other "social welfare" programs that were passed in the '60's?  And have we REALLY gotten over FDR and Social Security?

I agree that we can recharge, shrug it off and come back, but that assumes that Obama is defeated in 2012. That is no sure thing.  We have to have someone other than "generic Republican" to run against him - and so far we have just about zip. Of course, someone will win primaries, and will win the nomination, but nobody looks that strong at this point.

And there is still a hard core of 40% of the public that would re-elect Obama no matter what.

75 Posted by: grease monkey at September 27, 2011 09:35 PM (VSWPU) Meh... The "comedy", you will give it rest. Yes? Leave for us that are the pros.

76 Peaches, hows you Mom doing?

77

Leadership and Compromise?

 

Yep.  That's what we need.  We need to compromise with the pedophiles across the aisle.

Fat Mittens.  So long.

78 I liked it.  I really, really liked his speech.  He sure comes across as a no-BS-zone.

79 Even though he said he wasn't running, his answer on entitlement reform sure sounded like he's running -- talking about what he'd done in New Jersey

80

You know who I would vote for?  I would vote for a guy who is 100% conservative and won't ever compromise.

Barring that, I would vote for someone who is 50+x% conservative, and won't ever compromise.

Compromise is what got us here.

81 His line on in state tuition is good,but I see an awful lot of Mexicans in NJ.

82 Peaches, hows you Mom doing?

Finally, doing pretty well.  It was a lot of 1 step forward, 2 steps back, but the second surgery did the trick and she is definitely on a steady path of improvement now.  Still in the hospital, but she didn't have any food for almost 2 weeks, so they've got to get her strength back.  It's all good.  And thanks for asking. 

83 "Real leaders, they don't read polls, they change polls."

ooo nice

84 I thought polls were for strippers, not changing.

/confused

85

sorta o/t, sorta relevant because of Riiiiiiiiino Watch

Jeb Bush, Rubio Agree with Perry On In-State Tuition

(nationalreview dot com - The Corner - Katrina Trinko)

(my laptop is giving me fitts - sorry no hyperlink)

86

@chemjeff

And The Answer Is: Still No

_{- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -}

Doesn't no sometimes mean yes?

87 79 Have we gotten over LBJ,

Your point is very well taken. Programs like Medicare and SS and Obamacare have a life of their own and are hard to kill, given the coalition of those looting the treasury for associated checks and jobs. The point from which we may have to be dusting ourselves off is once our welfare state collapses. If the progs prevail, that will happen all the sooner. I hope we can unwind it in an orderly manner. But if not, well, I still have faith in America, and in Americans. I won't let go of that unless forced.

88 91 Jeb Bush never met an illegal he didn't want to give amnesty.Fuck him.Rubio?.Ah well,nobody is perfect.

89 Told ya so. He ain't runnin. Not that he could anyway.

90 oh wow, now Christie got the "your country needs you" question

91 well thats good to hear....   tell her theres a Southern Moron out there who thinks about her from time to time. and get well soon.

92

"Jeb Bush never met an illegal he didn't want to give amnesty.Fuck him.Rubio?.Ah well,nobody is perfect.Posted by: steevy at September 27, 2011 09:57 PM (fyOgS) "

This.

---

  But what about the ones who are out for blood on Perry on this (not agreeing or disagreeing with them) but love, love Rubio?

That's all I'm thinking...

93 wow that was a great answer

94 See, this is Cristie's genius. He's not running for president, he's slowly walking for president. No one will be able to call him a liar... and maybe he'll finally get there in eight years.

95 At this point, I would honestly vote for Christie over Obama. His brand of republicanism is one an independent as myself can buy.

96 hey Peaches glad your mom is doing better

97

Well the guy is impressive, hopefully the guys that are running watched and will learn from him.

 

98

we are so f***ed!

 

the Elites refuse to allow a full spectrum conservative to rise and continuously try to push their open-borders, give-the-guys-across-the-aisle-a-reach-around, assholes.

and a big part of the conservative blogosphere is helping them... Electability! - it's got Electrolytes!

99 Heh! Andrew Breitbart in front row.

100 The fat man impressed me. He's a super candidate. I'll take him, political warts and all.

101

Posted by: proudonkey at September 27, 2011 10:01 PM (NadeK)

you're not fooling anyone, Dum-Dum

102 an independent as myself

Shut the fuck up, partisan hack.

103 Posted by: Shoey at September 27, 2011 10:02 PM (m6OUa)

"Moderation in the pursuit of power is no vice!"

From stuff Goldwater didn't say!

You will vote for a NE establishment RINO politician and like it (or not).

104 wtf, I get attacked even if I say something good about a conservative? jeez

105 Thanks, guys!  It's a huge relief, been a tough coupla weeks.

But, so, hey, I didn't watch it.  The fat man's not going to waddle for POTUS?  I'm a little disappointed but, of course, as a conservative, that's my go-to position lately.

106

@Peaches,

Glad to hear your mom is doing well. She will go strong quickly as soon as she's back on solid food and is able to go home and exercise.

Last May, I had to have major surgery a week after some elective minor surgery went wrong. After three weeks in the hospital, including a week in ICU, I was as weak as a newborn kitten. My butt disappeared and I had to sit on an inflatable life preserver after I got back home. I was fed intraveneously and the worst part of the whole ordeal was the nastrogastric tube they used to suck out stomach secretions. The second worst part was the wound vac I had to wear for two months.

Now I'm strong as an ox and almost as smart.

Prayers to you and your mom. The best part is that she won't remember much and will recover quickly with plenty of protein and exercise.

 

107

Posted by: proudonkey at September 27, 2011 10:05 PM (NadeK)

it's called "reputation".  yours ain't worth shit.

108 The speech was awesome, and the Q & A was even awesomer.  The "it's not heartless" comment was awesomest.

109 Everybody loves Christie- because he is not running. The press would be all over him and his issues like a duck on a Junebug should he change his mind. He does have some dirty laundry from his early days in politics- no big deal in NJ or Chicago, but would be exaggerated by our red scribes.

110 wtf, I get attacked even if I say something good about a conservative? jeez

Posted by: proudonkey at September 27, 2011 10:05 PM (NadeK)

What can we say, you have a gift.

111 Ace didn't live-blog this?

112 No Christie for pres

113 Everybody loves Christie- because he is not running.

yeah, true enough.
you just know that if Christie was running and participating in the debates, he would have made some type of Perry-esque "heartless" comment about some issue he favors that is not in the conservative mainstream, like climate change or something, and then we all at the HQ would be ripping him a new asshole too

114 Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at September 27, 2011 10:06 PM (Wv5xl)

Jeebus, dude, that's dreadful.  So glad you are now back in fighting trim!

Unfortunately, my mom is 83 and still has the liver cancer, so she probably won't have your experience, but she will definitely have a better one that what was in the cards 2 weeks ago.

115 117 Everybody loves Christie- because he is not running. The press would be all over him and his issues like a duck on a Junebug should he change his mind.

Sadly, so would many of us. Maybe even me, if he clung to gun control or something else I could not abide.

Still, there are people I'd pull the lever for over Obama (anyone with an (R), basically), and there are people I'd pull the lever for while grinning. He's one of the latter.

116 ^{it's called "reputation".  yours ain't worth shit.}

Chemjeff, I had thought you were one of the more reasonable, less extreme posters...

117 110Posted by: Shoey at September 27, 2011 10:02 PM (m6OUa)

"Moderation in the pursuit of power is no vice!"

From stuff Goldwater didn't say!

You will vote for a NE establishment RINO politician and like it (or not).

Posted by: Karl Rover at September 27, 2011 10:05 PM (i3+c5)

 

 

and if that doesn't work....... hey look a baby wolf!

 

118 wow Michael that sounds like a terrible ordeal
glad you are doing better

119 I'd say they are all courageous.
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp
..............
Amen.

I am beginning to hate this place and others..  the comments are like they are coming from fucking morons.. and not the good kind..  I have no idea what the conservatives around here would ever find acceptable.

120 Posted by: proudonkey at September 27, 2011 10:09 PM (NadeK)

It's like you haven't even met us.  And, yet, we know you very, very well.  You're an annoying little douchenozzle who keeps coming back to a place where you are not wanted.  Did I leave anything out? 

121 ^{I am beginning to hate this place and others..  the comments are like they are coming from fucking morons.. and not the good kind..  I have no idea what the conservatives around here would ever find acceptable.}

well, then why don't you just leave?

122 like climate change or something, and then we all at the HQ would be ripping him a new asshole too

Posted by: chemjeff at September 27, 2011 10:09 PM (s7mIC)

He has 4 or 5 positions I am not a fan of. He does have a way though of telling the truth without scaring the hell out of you so there is that.

123 Chemjeff, I had thought you were one of the more reasonable, less extreme posters...

I am, that's why I tell you the truth.  Your reputation is worthless here.  Say whatever you want about Christie, nobody will believe you are sincere.  Including me.

124

yeah, true enough.
you just know that if Christie was running and participating in the debates, he would have made some type of Perry-esque "heartless" comment about some issue he favors that is not in the conservative mainstream, like climate change or something, and then we all at the HQ would be ripping him a new asshole too

Is it possible he would defend a moderate or left of center position on a particular issue with passion.  Yeah, I think so.  But everything I've seen of Christie indicates to me that he would never in a million years saying something as dumb and insulting as Perry's comment.

125 101 See, this is Cristie's genius. He's not running for president, he's slowly walking for president. No one will be able to call him a liar... and maybe he'll finally get there in eight years.

Posted by: mugiwara at September 27, 2011 10:01 PM (KI/Ch)

Reagan started in '68, and experienced much "personal growth" in the process.  IIRC, and that's hard to do, because I wasn't around until '79, but I've read and heard some history -  Ronnie Raygun was very pro-union...right up until he busted the air traffic controllers once he was in office.

Give the big man some space, see if he comes around on issues where he's at odds with the base, e.g. gun control.  Christie is Jersey born and bred, so the gun thing probably doesn't resonate.  When he gets out in flyover country, he might come to understand.

I say this as an ardent pro-2A defender...you know, NRA member, gun dick, etc.  I'm not ready to write his future off because he's not where I am today.  NJ is not middle America, and he's got time.  Let's see where he goes.

126 I am beginning to hate this place and others..  the comments are like they are coming from fucking morons.. and not the good kind..

This is just the pre-primary Airing of Grievances phase.  Just wait until the primaries actually start.  That's when we break out the brass knuckles.

127

I have no idea what the conservatives around here would ever find acceptable.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 27, 2011 10:10 PM (UTq/I)

 

simple, an actual, real conservative who looks at the Constitution from an Orginalist perspective and enforces it that way.

128 prouddickhead, Where Were You On The Day Stopped Turning?

129 So, um, who the hell do you guys actually like?

130 "Warts?" He's a mass of malignant tumors interconnected by festering tendrils of liberalism.

Gun grabber, global warming true believer, simpering dhimmi, endorsed the Ground Zero mosque, doesn't believe in freedom of speech, insults the Tea  Party, won't oppose Obamacare, pro-amnesty... the list is very long. Yelling at teachers' unions doesn't even begin to offset one thousandth of one percent of it.

Christie is not a conservative. He barely qualifies as a pansy-ass northeastern Republican.

131 Besides any squish tendencies common in a NE Republican,Christie has one big problem.HE'S big,not just fat,sloppy fat.He's not handsome either.His family is not very attractive.Sorry,but this is a shallow country,whil I couldn't care less about the appearance thing,many do.

132

_{It's like you haven't even met us.  And, yet, we know you very, very well.  You're an annoying little douchenozzle who keeps coming back to a place where you are not wanted.  Did I leave anything out?} 

Why, yes, you did leave something out. You left out my penetrating analysis. Dum Dum comes here to be abused. He is wearing a big "Kick Me" sign, and many of us help him fulfill his twisted compulsion.

133 Christie is not a conservative. He barely qualifies as a pansy-ass northeastern Republican.

so friggin what? he gets shit done. thats what we need.

134 >>simple, an actual, real conservative who looks at the Constitution from an Orginalist perspective and enforces it that way. And who would that be?

135

I am beginning to hate this place and others.. the comments are like they are coming from fucking morons.. and not the good kind.. I have no idea what the conservatives around here would ever find acceptable.

For one thing, I want someone who believes whole-heartedly in the sovereignty of the individual, free moral agency, and who doesn't talk of compromise with those who have a collectivist worldview. We're all getting more than a little tired of people who talk a good game and then cut deals, waffle, and go weak on issues related to critical civil liberties. It's to the point now where we can't trust any politician because they all seem to "grow" in office.

136 chi-town

you know this is a tough crowd.
Christie did great, He is great doing the job He campaigned for, and won .
Down the road when He evaluates the needs of the population which might be different  than on the east coast We can  evaluate each other again?

137 Posted by: proudonkey at September 27, 2011 10:09 PM (NadeK)

Why, it's almost as if you annoy the fuck out of everyone! What could possibly be the reason for that?

/taps chin in quiet contemplation

138 137 So, um, who the hell do you guys actually like?

Posted by: thisheavenlyhell at September 27, 2011 10:14 PM (8uDC

Quite honestly I am undecided between Perry and Romney.  I am leaning towards Romney only for two reasons: (1) he's a better campaigner and debater, so far, and (2) he might have a better chance at beating Obama because he doesn't bear the guilt-by-association stigma of being associated with Texas and Bush.  That's all.  Position wise, I disagree more with Romney than with Perry.  But I don't get as agitated about it as many people seem to, because I'm also a firm believer that a conservative Congress is more important than whether our candidate supports gun control or not.

139

the people we actaully know are conservative have all been destroyed by the media and others.

 

we're conservatives and conservative leaning liberatrians - we aren't allowed to have a canidate.

we would kill The Precious and that can not be allow under ANY circumstances.

 

140 "so friggin what? he gets shit done. thats what we need."

I kind of don't want him to get shit done, if the shit he gets done includes going to bat for, and preventing the deportation of, Mohammedan terrorists.

141 As far as us being harsh,well,we have our opinions.OUR OWN opinions,which may or may not agree with yours.

142 142>> simple, an actual, real conservative who looks at the Constitution from an Orginalist perspective and enforces it that way.

And who would that be?

Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 10:17 PM (TMB3S)

 

exactly!

143 actually, can we get Scalia to run for Prez?
now THAT would be something

144 139 Besides any squish tendencies common in a NE Republican,Christie has one big problem.HE'S big,not just fat,sloppy fat.He's not handsome either.His family is not very attractive.Sorry,but this is a shallow country,whil I couldn't care less about the appearance thing,many do. ---------------------- Rosalynn Carter Nancy Reagan Barbara Bush Hillary Clinton Not exactly a parade of beauties.

145

I'm beginning to wonder if Republicans who aspire to the Presidency someday should just forget about it if they are from a blue state.  If they run for Governor or Senator of that state on a stridently conservative platform, they would likely not win, and therefore not build up their resume to someday attain the Presidency.

If they temper there viewpoints to be electible in that state, when they do eventually run for President, they will be derided as RINOs.

146 actually, can we get Scalia to run for Prez?

O.  M.  G.

I never thought of that, but it's is fucking brilliant.  And not in that poofter Brit way, either.

147 I like Perry.He's not perfect and he needs to work on his debating and general stumping.He may have been fine as a candidate in Texas but he has been poor thus far on the national level.If he doesn't pick it up he's on the Fred Thompson path.

148 150

+1.

149 >>we're conservatives and conservative leaning liberatrians - we aren't allowed to have a canidate. Of course you do. His name is Ron Paul. But most of you deny he represents you because he sounds insane when he speaks for more than 2 minutes. He embodies the conservative/libertarian position to a T. Why isn't he winning?

150 154actually, can we get Scalia to run for Prez?

O. M. G.

I never thought of that, but it's is fucking brilliant. And not in that poofter Brit way, either.

Posted by: Peaches at September 27, 2011 10:21 PM (/ybwc)

 

i agree, but i've heard that Thomas has taken over the Crown of King Orginalist, so i would respectfully submit his name.

151 ^{I kind of don't want him to get shit done, if the shit he gets done includes going to bat for, and preventing the deportation of, Mohammedan terrorists.}

You're never going to get everything. I like Christie because I think the biggest issue of our country is entitlements and Christie is best suited to deal with it.


I like Perry as a person, but don't know if he can get shit done. Romney, I used to like, but he just has an air of phoneyness about him.

152 His name is Ron Paul.

But most of you deny he represents you because he sounds insane when he speaks for more than 2 minutes.

He embodies the conservative/libertarian position to a T. Why isn't he winning?

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the whole "crazier than a shithouse rat" has a little something to do with it.

153 If Christie respects the last two USSCt decisions on the Second Amendment, I'm good with that, but global warming, that is just plain naive.

154

I'm beginning to wonder if Republicans who aspire to the Presidency someday should just forget about it if they are from a blue state. If they run for Governor or Senator of that state on a stridently conservative platform, they would likely not win, and therefore not build up their resume to someday attain the Presidency.

The real problem here is that our nation has always been divided. We've never truly had one political culture. We've had the radical individualist Scots-Irish and the law-and-order New Englanders. There's really no room for agreement between the two, no more than there was room for agreement when their respective forefathers were living in Great Britain. They're two completely incompatible philosophies forced to co-exist in a single political union and it doesn't work.

155 He embodies the conservative/libertarian position to a T. Why isn't he winning?

because he's loonier than a .... loon?

156 Who gives a crap about speeches? Has Barack Obama hypnotized us with his incredible teleprompter-reading skills? Is that what the presidency has been reduced to? Speech-giving ability? God help us all.

157 So, um, who the hell do you guys actually like?

We're talking about politicians here.  "Like" is a high hurdle to cross.

At this point I'll settle for "does not make me check my pocket to see if my wallet is still there after he bumps into me".

158 Wow!  Didn't realize how much time had passed since he finished answering questions.  Been trying to catch my breath.  Probably should wipe my jizz off my belly now.

159 157>> we're conservatives and conservative leaning liberatrians - we aren't allowed to have a canidate.

Of course you do. His name is Ron Paul.

But most of you deny he represents you because he sounds insane when he speaks for more than 2 minutes.

He embodies the conservative/libertarian position to a T. Why isn't he winning?

Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 10:23 PM (TMB3S)

 

i've never voted for Ron Paul, never given him a dollar, and never plan on voting for him, however hard it is to wrap a brain around, i am both conservative and libertarian philisophically, but i am conservative politically i chose this politcal identity because of my belief in God, libertarians won't have me because of it, but conservatives get mad at me because i often point out their own statism, I am a man with no traditional political home, so i have created one for myself....  that may sound arrogant, but - freedom and sanity WILL win in the end and that means I will win and you will win, everyone wins wins freedom reigns.

160 Ron Paul comes across as unstable and slightly incoherent. His biggest problems are his followers who project the image of a squirrel posse.

161 Don't tell me... there's a new thread.  Right after I comment.  Every. Freaking. Time.

162 >>I'm no expert, but I'm guessing the whole "crazier than a shithouse rat" has a little something to do with it. Paul isn't crazy. He just represents the conservative/libertarian position in it's most pure form. No compromise. I keep hearing here daily that compromise of any form is hearsay because the country will end if we do. Leaving aside for the moment that anyone who was alive during the Reagan years knows that he compromised quite a bit and that's why Christie was so well received at the Reagan library, in fact, it was his message, why is Ron Paul, a guy who is absolutely pure in his message of conservative/libertarianism so scorned here? Or are we just arguing over which degrees from orthodoxy each of us is willing to accept?

163 Posted by: Peaches at September 27, 2011 10:25 PM (/ybwc)

I understand why people dislike Ron Paul, but it's not as if he is a Red Sox fan, or something similarly awful.

164 There are no perfect candidates. Just perfect voters (in their own mind).

165 Ron Paul takes essentially sound philosophy and applies it in foolish and idiotic ways. There is no mainstream political figure today that I feel entirely comfortable with. None. I guess that just goes to show that there's no peace in this world.

166 Ever wonder who the money people behind the Draft Christie committee are? The same group of Jewish billionaires who were so kind to push for "gay marriage" in New York. Who could have guessed that this Rino fuck would enjoy their support?

167

We're talking about politicians here.  "Like" is a high hurdle to cross.

At this point I'll settle for "does not make me check my pocket to see if my wallet is still there after he bumps into me".

 

Well.. yeah.. exactly. Maybe I meant "is there anyone you don't hate".

168 Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 10:32 PM (TMB3S)

Sweetie, trust me, he is crazier than a shithouse rat and the people who champion him are worse.  You are not going to make any converts here in Chez Ace.  It's just not gonna happen. 

169

"Paul isn't crazy. He just represents the conservative/libertarian position in it's most pure form. No compromise."

 

not in my opinion, he is non-progressive and that's good, but the straight up libertarian platform is nuts and i don't accept it or Ron Paul, he's great on the Fed. and some other economic issues, but that's it.

 

he's not a socialist, and for that I generally refrain from critizing him too harshly.

 

but vote for him... nope.

170 you know this is a tough crowd.
Christie did great, He is great doing the job He campaigned for, and won .
Down the road when He evaluates the needs of the population which might be different  than on the east coast We can  evaluate each other again?
Posted by: willow
......
Yeah. thanks..
But here's the thing..  It's kinda like we are a wolf in a trap gnawing our own leg off.

I know this phrase has been overused, but the perfect has become the enemy of the good.  Fuck.. the great god Reagan was one of the biggest compromisers in the last century, and we all idolize him.  He was able to "balance the politics of what should be done with what could be done", if I remember the quote correctly..

We are becoming caricatures of ourselves, and I feel it will lead to defeat. 

171 But here's the thing..  It's kinda like we are a wolf in a trap gnawing our own leg off.

I know this phrase has been overused, but the perfect has become the enemy of the good.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 27, 2011 10:40 PM (UTq/I

I can't argue with that , i agree.

172 Nice speech. He's not running.

173 >>Sweetie, trust me, he is crazier than a shithouse rat and the people who champion him are worse. You are not going to make any converts here in Chez Ace. It's just not gonna happen No problem, darling. Anyone who has ever read any comment I've posted here knows exactly how I feel about Ron Paul. I'm pretty sure I'm on the far end of the "Your a Fucking RINO" scale according to the Vic scale. Just wondering where the hypocrisy ends here at Chez ace.

174 Chi-town, I'll add i've never watched a election/campaign from the get go.

So I'm a little flusstered at the setting em up knock em down routine. But i've read elections are nasty.  so i guess it is the good with the bad until most agree on one they won't kill themselves if they have to vote for em.

175 179But here's the thing.. It's kinda like we are a wolf in a trap gnawing our own leg off.

I know this phrase has been overused, but the perfect has become the enemy of the good.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 27, 2011 10:40 PM (UTq/I

I can't argue with that , i agree.

Posted by: willow at September 27, 2011 10:43 PM (h+qn

 

ahhh, but who is doing the chewing, the grassroots TEA Party types who want to end that which plagues us or the Establishment GOP types who are fighting us tooth and nail to save The Precious (Welfare State)?

176 Dennis Miller is on board with Cain.  Really laid it out nicely on his radio show today.

177 shoey, maybe the tea party types are doing the chewing trying to escape the grasp of the state .

i believe those in washington have not really connected to what's really happening lately in our home towns.
they are in a area at 4 percent unemployment feeling ok about prospects , but it's a fake reality.
and i want them to do their jobs. which is to fiscally hold themselves to account and stop burdening the xitizenry for their power trips

178 looove dennis miller,  like Cain, think He has a real chance?

179

the RINOS have picked every canidate we've put up since Reagan, and where has that gotten us?

 

stop gnawing my leg off RINOS! you are the ones holding back the tide of history, embrace the fierce individualism of real Americans, Social Security has not made us great, it has crippled us and so it needs to go and all the other "safety net" programs, they aren't a "safety net" they are the slavers net.

180 shoey i'm not adverse to welfare . i'm adverse to it becomingand allowed to be  a life choice instead of  temporary help.

181 maybe i'm a rino?

slinks away.

182

185shoey, maybe the tea party types are doing the chewing trying to escape the grasp of the state .

i'll give you that, that is pretty much what i'm doing, i'd chew thur an engine block if it meant I could buy some land and build the house i want on it, without begging permission from an army of government petty tyrants.

183

i'll give you that, that is pretty much what i'm doing, i'd chew thur an engine block if it meant I could buy some land and build the house i want on it, without begging permission from an army of government petty tyrants.

Posted by: shoey at September 27, 2011 10:57 PM (m6OUa)

i hear that!

184

No problem, darling. Anyone who has ever read any comment I've posted here knows exactly how I feel about Ron Paul. I'm pretty sure I'm on the far end of the "Your a Fucking RINO" scale according to the Vic scale. Just wondering where the hypocrisy ends here at Chez ace.

I guess it depends on your expectations. And your expectations are formed by where you come from. If you come from a liberal or moderate area of the country, your tolerance for liberalism is higher. To you, some of us probably seem implacable. It goes back to that dual political culture I mentioned a little bit ago. Thomas Sowell's book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" does a pretty good job of explaining the historical difference between the NE and SE.

185 >>the RINOS have picked every canidate we've put up since Reagan, and where has that gotten us? You should really go look at the actual record of Ronald Reagan. All of it. He would be a RINO by the standard of todays Super True Conservatives. He would also be embarrassed by the movement some of you are claiming in his name. Ask his wife or son.

186 I call upon the moderate republicans, the reasonable republicans, the nonpartisaned republicans to take back the party from the extreme wing that has hijacked the party.

remember, the extreme right wing gave you christine odonell.

187 188shoey i'm not adverse to welfare . i'm adverse to it becomingand allowed to be a life choice instead of temporary help.

Posted by: willow at September 27, 2011 10:56 PM (h+qn

 

 

the Constitution is clear, the Framers were clear on this - the federal government has no authority to micromanage the lives of individual citizens.

the "General Welfare" clause was explained by Madison in the Federalist Papers and it doesn't mean what the progs and other "safety netters" believe, it was never meant to be a license for the federal government to become a charity.

i understand that these things aren't taught in school anymore, and i understand that all of us are constantly bombarded by progressive propaganda designed to trick us into believing what we know is wrong is somehow acceptable because it's "compassionate" it isn't compassionate, it's a trap.

188 >>>Ask his wife or son.

Michael Reagan -- trueblue conservative talk-show host Michael Reagan, not the douchebag Ron, Jr. -- said that his dad wouldn't be accepted by today's GOP Party.  The response from the True Conservatives at Hot Air?  "He was adopted.  He doesn't know ANYTHING about Reagan."

Seriously.  That's what they said.  They're so full of hatred and stupidity that, like shoey, they honestly think that anyone who actually has to deal with people of the opposing viewpoint (as opposed to slaughtering them or steamrolling them in a 60-70% conservative state) is a worthless sack of RINO shit.

189 shoey, i agree general welfare doesn't imply welfare.

i'd say it's a leave it up to the individual state choice but they are then responsible for thei financial decisions.

190 Tell me, proudonkey, do you believe in private property? If so, is it right that some citizens should gang up and steal private property from other citizens to use as they see fit? What's your moral view of theft? What about the covetousness that Democrats stoke up to drive support of theft? What do your ethics say about that?

191 ^{Tell me, proudonkey, do you believe in private property? If so, is it right that some citizens should gang up and steal private property from other citizens to use as they see fit? What's your moral view of theft? What about the covetousness that Democrats stoke up to drive support of theft? What do your ethics say about that?}

I'm totally against entitlements, as thats what you're asking. I think unions are bad for competitiveness. I think there's prob a lot of abuse in entitlements as well.

192 193>> the RINOS have picked every canidate we've put up since Reagan, and where has that gotten us?

You should really go look at the actual record of Ronald Reagan. All of it. He would be a RINO by the standard of todays Super True Conservatives. He would also be embarrassed by the movement some of you are claiming in his name.

Ask his wife or son.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 10:59 PM (TMB3S)

 

he did what he could, he focused on what was truly important at the time - defeating the Soviet Union, besides my point was that the RINOS keep picking our canidates and things keep getting worse, why?

because RINOS accept many of the basic tentants of progressivism, the main one being that the People are incapable of taking care of themselves and must be herded like cattle down the "right" path, the collectivist path.

you can deny that all you want, but all the evidence before all of our eyes say it's true.

government just keeps getting bigger and bigger and more powerful and more powerful.

193 shoey, try to remember just a few short years ago i voted for my first Republican President Bush. 2nd term

I voted dem prior, not by knowledge but i was union, blah blah, found all the presidents pleasant from my view, which was never read the paper of watched t.v

9=11 was my intro to reality and politics.
i'm  the devils spawn growing into an adult , or so i hope.growing

194 LOL of the day from Hot Air:

"WeÂ’re not as witty as AoS, but Hot Air has the most intelligent commenters."

195

Seriously. That's what they said. They're so full of hatred and stupidity that, like shoey, they honestly think that anyone who actually has to deal with people of the opposing viewpoint (as opposed to slaughtering them or steamrolling them in a 60-70% conservative state) is a worthless sack of RINO shit.

I don't want to slaughter anybody and I don't think shoey does either. We just want to be left alone. And people like you insist that we shouldn't want that. You insist that we work with people we don't want to live on the same planet with, much less in the same political entity.

196 Jeff B. heck that is said here too.

the smartest , brightest  raunchiest conservative/libertarian /military blog on da web,
oh ,and everyone's a comedian.

197 >>I guess it depends on your expectations. And your expectations are formed by where you come from. If you come from a liberal or moderate area of the country, your tolerance for liberalism is higher. To you, some of us probably seem implacable. It goes back to that dual political culture I mentioned a little bit ago. Thomas Sowell's book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" does a pretty good job of explaining the historical difference between the NE and SE. Nonsense. How is the super duper conservatism of Alabama or Texas working out for you? Alabama had the first county in the country to declare bankruptcy. Texas took $6 billion from the Obama stimulus to balance it's books when Super Rick couldn't balance the states budget. Texas has been taking more in federal tax dollars during the Perry reign than it paid in for the first time in state history. These are facts, not some evil plot I cooked up. Some of you keep ignoring the failures of pure orthodoxy on either end when it comes up with the reality of the world as it actually exists. Yes, conservatism is the most logical policy but last I looked we live in a divided country and about half disagree. If you can't find some way of removing them from the equation then it will always be a matter of degrees. Reagan always got this. But he would be rejected by many on the right today. Any movement in it's extreme fails in a democracy. Always has, always will. Call me a RINO. Or an actual Reagan Republican. I will wear them both proudly.

198 yeah , i'm so much not into dead people. but i do feel strongly that the gvt has over-reached and caused calamity on millions of americans.

199 Miller believes Cain has the right stuff to win.  He made his case based on his intuition.  But even  Medved, who is very cautious about pushing hard core conservative positions and candidates, made a good case for Cain's viability as well, citing he thought Cain's recent comment that he could potentially garner 33% of the black vote to be very credible. 

200

I'm totally against entitlements, as thats what you're asking.

Not necessarily. I'm talking about basic moral philosophy. Because when you talk about the "extreme right wing" I hear "people who won't go along with the mainstream."

201 kurt , I'll look for it in the morning when i'm rested, thanks for the mention.

202 Seriously. That's what they said. They're so full of hatred and stupidity that, like shoey, they honestly think that anyone who actually has to deal with people of the opposing viewpoint (as opposed to slaughtering them or steamrolling them in a 60-70% conservative state) is a worthless sack of RINO shit.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 27, 2011 11:05 PM (hIWe1)

 

nice try, but guilt by association is a liberal tactic that has out-lived it's welcome.

I haven't said squat about Micheal Reagan, and i don't believe R. Reagan was somekind of conservative God, he was a good man who did his best but he made some really awful deals with the devil. I worship no man or woman.

and unlike you, i stated my position without hurling unfounded insults.

203 201shoey, try to remember just a few short years ago i voted for my first Republican President Bush. 2nd term

I voted dem prior, not by knowledge but i was union, blah blah, found all the presidents pleasant from my view, which was never read the paper of watched t.v

9=11 was my intro to reality and politics.
i'm the devils spawn growing into an adult , or so i hope.growing

Posted by: willow at September 27, 2011 11:11 PM (h+qn

 

my bark is worse than my bite, i don't think everyone is a RINO, but it is important to read about the Founders/Framers and what they thought they were writing in the Constitution, that knowledge has been taken from us, and taken on purpose, it's up to each of us to reclaim that knowledge and our full God-given rights.

204 Jeff, that implication was a little over the top.

not wanting a fight, but over.the.top.

205 shoey, i didn't feel a nibble.

i was only  explaining my position if i  don't quite agree with a premise , it's posssible i don't have a long  history of conservatism politically, that's why.

206

Nonsense.

Thomas Sowell's book or me?

How is the super duper conservatism of Alabama or Texas working out for you? Alabama had the first county in the country to declare bankruptcy. Texas took $6 billion from the Obama stimulus to balance it's books when Super Rick couldn't balance the states budget. Texas has been taking more in federal tax dollars during the Perry reign than it paid in for the first time in state history.

You answered your own questions. Are these things "super duper conservative"? No. They're in opposition to the principles of Conservatism. (For the record, I don't live in either of those states anyway.)

These are facts, not some evil plot I cooked up.

I never said anything about an "evil plot."

Some of you keep ignoring the failures of pure orthodoxy on either end when it comes up with the reality of the world as it actually exists. Yes, conservatism is the most logical policy but last I looked we live in a divided country and about half disagree.

That was my point, if you would have actually read my comments. We live in a nation whose political philosophies are 180 degrees out of phase. There can be no compromise because they are inherently incompatible. We're screwed.

Call me a RINO. Or an actual Reagan Republican. I will wear them both proudly.

I'm not calling you anything. You're not reading my comments.

207 205>> I guess it depends on your expectations. And your expectations are formed by where you come from. If you come from a liberal or moderate area of the country, your tolerance for liberalism is higher. To you, some of us probably seem implacable. It goes back to that dual political culture I mentioned a little bit ago. Thomas Sowell's book, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" does a pretty good job of explaining the historical difference between the NE and SE.

Nonsense.

How is the super duper conservatism of Alabama or Texas working out for you? Alabama had the first county in the country to declare bankruptcy. Texas took $6 billion from the Obama stimulus to balance it's books when Super Rick couldn't balance the states budget. Texas has been taking more in federal tax dollars during the Perry reign than it paid in for the first time in state history. These are facts, not some evil plot I cooked up.

Some of you keep ignoring the failures of pure orthodoxy on either end when it comes up with the reality of the world as it actually exists. Yes, conservatism is the most logical policy but last I looked we live in a divided country and about half disagree. If you can't find some way of removing them from the equation then it will always be a matter of degrees. Reagan always got this. But he would be rejected by many on the right today.

Any movement in it's extreme fails in a democracy. Always has, always will.

Call me a RINO. Or an actual Reagan Republican. I will wear them both proudly.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 11:16 PM (TMB3S)

 

because you are setting up progressive orthodoxy as if it were conservative orthodoxy and saying "see it doesn't work" we haven't had ANY conservative government in this country since 1913, the Creature from Jekyll Island stole our conservative constitutional republic, buried it in a deep, dark hole and replaced it with phony "democracy" the history is all there it just needs to be undug.

208 anyway i have 3 little munchkins at 3 in the morning to face so ill say goodnight.

209 good night Willow :-)

210 >>>because you are setting up progressive orthodoxy as if it were conservative orthodoxy and saying "see it doesn't work" we haven't had ANY conservative government in this country since 1913, the Creature from Jekyll Island stole our conservative constitutional republic, buried it in a deep, dark hole and replaced it with phony "democracy" the history is all there it just needs to be undug.

I'm beginning to think you actually are a crazy person.

211 >>my bark is worse than my bite, i don't think everyone is a RINO, but it is important to read about the Founders/Framers and what they thought they were writing in the Constitution, that knowledge has been taken from us, and taken on purpose, it's up to each of us to reclaim that knowledge and our full God-given rights. I've spent most of my life living within spitting distance from some of founders/framers of the Constitution and the history of the Revolution. Fucking Massachusetts liberal and all. I think many of you would be surprised to learn how many RINOs (Revolutionaries In Name Only) were involved in that movement.

212

I've spent most of my life living within spitting distance from some of founders/framers of the Constitution and the history of the Revolution. Fucking Massachusetts liberal and all.

I think many of you would be surprised to learn how many RINOs (Revolutionaries In Name Only) were involved in that movement.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 27, 2011 11:37 PM (TMB3S)

 

doesn't matter how many Hamilton's were in the mix, what was written and what was ratified is what it is, it says what it says and that is the Law.

so what are we, a Nation of Laws or a Nation of Men?

 

213

I've spent most of my life living within spitting distance from some of founders/framers of the Constitution and the history of the Revolution. Fucking Massachusetts liberal and all.

The founders were not unified in any way. The Federalists and Anti-federalists had the same basic quarrels that we have today—it hasn't really changed at all. Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry would have considered Ron Paul a dangerous compromiser. Alexander Hamilton would have loved to hang out with Donald Trump and Mitt Romney. They didn't have a single thing in common.

214 I'm beginning to think you actually are a crazy person.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 27, 2011 11:36 PM (hIWe1)

 

when it comes to the Constitution I am 100% batshit crazy, my friend.

 

i've already proven my willingness to kill and/or die for it when i joined the military... i have not changed my mind since then.

215 >>so what are we, a Nation of Laws or a Nation of Men? Laws, of course. So what exactly do you know of the founders? Not just the words the documents they produced but the communities that they came from and the arguments they put forward? Do you know how the Pilgrims lived in the early days of the Plimouth Plantation lived? Their society? Was it conservative or socialistic? These were the people who founded America and their descendants were among the most influential in the framing of the foundation of America. What do you know of them? Or are you just asking questions? I'm always curious what those who fall back on the founders words actually know what actually was going on in those times.

216

So what exactly do you know of the founders? Not just the words the documents they produced but the communities that they came from and the arguments they put forward? Do you know how the Pilgrims lived in the early days of the Plimouth Plantation lived? Their society? Was it conservative or socialistic? These were the people who founded America and their descendants were among the most influential in the framing of the foundation of America.

No, their descendants were the most influential in the framing of New England. The South and Midatlantic was a separate matter entirely. Patrick Henry refused to attend the Constitutional Convention at all because he "smelled a rat." I'm inclined to agree with him. I'm moving toward the conclusion that the Constitution was merely a stepping-stone to the highly centralized authoritarian state that the more radical Federalists really desired. Those who desired home rule and regional diversity were steamrolled. And their hopes for a bulwark against the rise of tyranny were ultimately defeated.

217

I know Jamestown started as a communal endeavor and was on the verge of collapsing until they allowed private ownership and enterprise.

i know the pilgrims were both communalistic and (at the time) considered religious troublemakers, but again the communalism had to be abandoned early on.

i know that there was a religious revival that took place in the Colony in the 1750's and 1760's that revolutionized american religion creating the Evangelic christian movement and that there were many preachers who took up the banner of the revolution and who spoke forcefully in it's favor from the pulpit.

i know that the founders were pretty much all classically educated and were fimiliar with the writings of Plato and his thoughts on democracy and that the Founders were generally well read individuals with a knowledge of all the different political philosophies of the time and that they embraced some and rejected others. Locke, Burke, they accepted, Rousseau they rejected.

and there was this guy named Emmerich de Vattel who wrote a book called "Law of Nations" (shortened) and that the Framers used the legal concepts and ideas in that book fairly extensively.

there's a whole bunch more i know, but i'm tired and i'm going to bed.

 

 

218 >>No, their descendants were the most influential in the framing of New England. The South and Midatlantic was a separate matter entirely. Patrick Henry refused to attend the Constitutional Convention at all because he "smelled a rat." I'm inclined to agree with him. I'm moving toward the conclusion that the Constitution was merely a stepping-stone to the highly centralized authoritarian state that the more radical Federalists really desired. Those who desired home rule and regional diversity were steamrolled. And their hopes for a bulwark against the rise of tyranny were ultimately defeated. Indeed, they were. So your platform is what, more regional diversity and let's lose? I'm not down with that. If you want a revolution then I'm not ready to support that. We all have our issues with regional issues. Shit we fought a revolution over it and even after that we spent a fuck load of blood and treasure rebuilding the rest of the country and getting the new territories up and running. You're welcome. Seriously, does this states rights shit kabuki ever end? You guys were fine with a Confederacy so its not like you didn't like a central government, you just didn't like a central government you did't agree with. Now we are supposed to thank you, again, for being part of the country? Ok. Thanks. And You're welcome. Why the hell do you guys boil peanuts?

219

Seriously, does this states rights shit kabuki ever end? You guys were fine with a Confederacy so its not like you didn't like a central government, you just didn't like a central government you did't agree with.

i agree that looking back Hamilton won and Jefferson lost, but i still think Jefferson's America would be a better place than this, Hamilton's America sucks ass... hard.

in Hamilton's America we have gained the world but lost our souls, i believe that what is going on right now is proof of that.

Jefferson's America only lasted a short time, but it was grand, not always nice mind you, but grand, and good for the soul.

i want that one, and i'm determined to work towards it until i die.

220

@227: "Why the hell do you guys boil peanuts?"

Same reason we use our accents - pisses off Yankees.

221 Today's RINOs would have f*cking hated Reagan, just like they did when they were going for mushy Bushie in '79.

Let's not act like Reagan was being challenged from the right. It's the f*cking moderates that wanted him to go away and would have happily seen to it.

I'm sick of this revisionist bullsh*t about today's "purists". If we'd listened to the "moderates" there would have been no President Reagan. Conservatives are not the problem within the Republican party.

222
How is the super duper conservatism of Alabama or Texas working out for you? Alabama had the first county in the country to declare bankruptcy.
Posted by: JackStraw


Although Alabama as a whole voted for John McCain by double digits, Barack Obama carried Jefferson County with 166,121 votes (52%) John McCain received 149,921 votes (47%).

223 230Today's RINOs would have f*cking hated Reagan, just like they did when they were going for mushy Bushie in '79.

Let's not act like Reagan was being challenged from the right. It's the f*cking moderates that wanted him to go away and would have happily seen to it.

I'm sick of this revisionist bullsh*t about today's "purists". If we'd listened to the "moderates" there would have been no President Reagan. Conservatives are not the problem within the Republican party.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at September 28, 2011 12:43 AM (5I0Yr)

 

so true, i was alive then and remember it well, the Establishment GOP did not want Reagan, at that time the forces of the status quo thought they had a lock on public opinion, they were stunned and horrified when Reagan won the nomination and they couldn't stop him, things have changed since then Tyranny has gotten smarter and more subtle, the poltics of personal destruction began in earnest after Reagan, none of the Ruling Class wanted that to happen again.

224

So your platform is what, more regional diversity and let's lose? I'm not down with that.

Lose what? A warm fuzzy feeling that we're all one people (even though we aren't)? What is the optimal granularity for human government? The individual? A neighborhood? A city-state? A region? A continent? The whole Earth? One thing is clear, the larger the political organization, the less responsive it is to individual needs and differences. People who set their eyes on empire building enshrine raw power as a god to be worshipped and sacrifice liberty in the process. This cannot be denied because every nook and cranny of history demonstrates it. I don't excuse local thuggery here, I just assert that calling in one thug to suppress another doesn't really improve things all that much and we need to be less eager to jump on that bandwagon.

Seriously, does this states rights shit kabuki ever end? You guys were fine with a Confederacy so its not like you didn't like a central government, you just didn't like a central government you did't agree with.

First of all, I wasn't there. So I'm not one of "the guys." Second, my "guys" were either being marched westward for the crime of being Cherokee, growing corn in Indiana, or trying to grow Tobacco in the mountains of North Carolina. And the Confederacy was just as bad as the Union, if not worse. I'm talking about the hopelessness of making a better world through consolidation of political power. And I'm talking about the hopelessness of unifying a nation that was never unified. We're not one nation and we never have been. But people keep wanting to pretend that everything is just fine and there are no problems and that we'll all just get along. We won't. This thing will ultimately end in tears, in all likelihood, because some people can't realize that you can't bend the entire universe to your will. Man is not God.

Why the hell do you guys boil peanuts?

Now that I can't answer. I never touch the stuff myself.

225

Posted by: rfichoke at September 28, 2011 12:59 AM (SYhX2)

 

i will gladly join you in spitting on Andrew Jackson's grave, I used to think I liked him but now i realize the grave harm he did our nation by ignoring a legitimate ruling by the Supreme Court.

some still believe Jackson was crazy in the good way - he wasn't, he was plain ol' crazy the bad way.

226 And with that, I'll go to bed now, so I can toil for my Yankee banking masters tomorrow.

227 and i also agree, we aren't "One" we are "Many" we are 50 sovergein states that band together to protect ourselves and establish some basic rules, that's it, all the rest is progressive garbage.

228

i will gladly join you in spitting on Andrew Jackson's grave, I used to think I liked him but now i realize the grave harm he did our nation by ignoring a legitimate ruling by the Supreme Court.

Heh, you should hear my mom talk about him. He was bold, I'll honor that. But that's about all. He also laid the groundwork for Federal patronage.

229 Ten minutes in. What takes more than ten minutes.

230 I have been quite impressive with your posts, keep up the great work.