1 Cape Wind in Massachusetts won't go broke. They will be selling us electricity at twice the market rate!

2 Evergreen Solar did close up shop, however.

Way to go, Deval!

3 Massachusetts owns this thread, MoFos!

4 ...over inflate any balloon and it will pop.....

5 Everyone is losing money on every unit sold. 

6 If it moves, regulate it. If it moves too quickly, tax it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.

7 Going OT....early & often!

Lawyer accused of seeking secretary 'with benefits' gets one-year suspension

“In addition to the legal work, you would be required to have sexual interaction with me and my partner, sometimes together, sometimes separate,” the email said. ‘This part of the job would require sexy dressing and flirtatious interaction with me and my partner, as well as sexual interaction. You will have to be comfortable doing this with us.”

I guess the the State Bar in IL frowns on this type of ad

link to the ABA

8 Fuck the sun!  What I need is more GOVERNMENT!!!

9 I thought the lib numbskulls wanted cheap alternative energy.  I got their cheap alternative energy in my rectu, oooops, there it goes.

10 Shocker, as technology improves production increases and prices drop! Who woulda thunk??

11 Particularly if the ballon is over-inflated on moral feel goodiness and not sound investment and business practices. Moral Superiority may make you feel good, but it won't satisfy your shareholders when their investment goes poof.

I have seen a comparison showing how many acres it takes to generate electricty for nuclear, coal, solar & wind. The land requirements for the "green" power is incredible.

12 Green energy is a huge boondoogle.

Can't wait until firms decide they cannot afford "free" charging stations for electric vehicles, and force the seven people who own one to charge them at home.

/Look Johnny! Their electric bill did something we like to call "skyrocket."

13 I have undergone, like, tons of testing.
I want to work but I can't get a job without government help.
I owe a lot of people a lot of money.
I'm broke.
I am the 99% of the renewable energy "industry".

14 Our Repub governor is seriously considering "clean energy" as an economic lifeline here. Build renewables in NV and sell the energy to the suckers in CA. Marketiing gambling to CA has worked for decades, so... We are so buggered.

15 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

16

We have 500 years of natural gas supply (it closed at $2.81/mcf yesterday) at current known reserves and nuclear energy is the cleanest, safest way to generate electricity.  New designs of coal fired plants approach the air quality of natural gas.  But try to get a new plant, of any design, permitted. 

17 *SMACK!!!

18 "It's almost as if an industry built on government subsidies for producers and industry and government subsidies for consumers is doomed to failure. So naturally the liberal response will be...more subsidies!" Well, you really can't expect an entrepreneur to start a company manufacturing a new technology product without government subsidies. That would just be silly.

19 We will flourish by dealing in volume.

20 Pfft. Green energy. Ha! Now point me to the nearest refinery, so I can tell them to just walk away.

21 There are simply no alternatives to existing forms of energy production that can scale to meet our needs. Petroleum, Coal, Natural Gas and Nuclear cannot be replaced by wind, sun, water or switchgrass.

22

Dang it! It's simple.

If there were money to be made in those technologies, there would be companies lined up to produce it.

23 Our Repub governor is seriously considering "clean energy" as an economic lifeline here

For all of our infrastructure problems, the wind-farms in West Texas really are doing very well.  It would be nice if we had the money to spend on creating a major energy pipeline from the West (where it can be generated, but isn't needed) to the East (where it can't be reliably generated, but is needed).

That said- it works in West Texas because they just get that much wind, and no one was using that land anyway.

24 I thought the lib numbskulls wanted cheap alternative energy.  I got their cheap alternative energy in my rectu, oooops, there it goes.

Careful; don't give anyone any ideas. You live in San Fran, where the Happy Meal dare not speak its name. They might end up inserting a valve and make you fart into a methane tank.

25 I guess the the State Bar in IL frowns on this type of ad

link to the ABA
Posted by: laceyunderalls

We just don't like the "honesty" of the ad.  We're fine with the behavior.

26 they can haz more stimulus? yes?

27 Liberal socialist environmentalists: by their own characterization they are altruist saints who care deeply about green energy.

I say take them at their word and put them all on stationary bike-powered generators and let them produce something for once in their lives. If they are what they say they are, they should be delighted to do it.

28 Moral Superiority may make you feel good, but it won't satisfy your shareholders when their investment goes poof.


I've never understood the mindset behind the investment funds that invest in "clean" this, or "sustainable" that, and then claim they're the best investments going.  If they are a good investment, they'll prosper whether clean or not.  Ah, well, it's only other people's money.

29

27 There are simply no alternatives to existing forms of energy production that can scale to meet our needs.

I have often wondered why there are not more geothermal plants? Any insight?

30 There are simply no alternatives to existing forms of energy production that can scale to meet our needs

Hamster wheels.

31 "We have 500 years of natural gas supply (it closed at $2.81/mcf yesterday) at current known reserves and nuclear energy is the cleanest, safest way to generate electricity. New designs of coal fired plants approach the air quality of natural gas. But try to get a new plant, of any design, permitted. " Why do you hate me?! Sob!

32 there used to be a link on here that showed a guy who figured out how to make solar panels for pennies.......but that's gone now......

33

Dang it! It's simple.

If there were money to be made in those technologies, there would be companies lined up to produce it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Well, yes.  It is easy.  When you forget to add the NUANCE!

34 Posted by: toby928 at November 30, 2011 11:08 AM (IfkGz)

But they'll make a profit once the volume picks up!

I'm here 'til Thursday. Try the veal!

35 Petroleum, Coal, Natural Gas and Nuclear cannot be replaced by wind, sun, water or switchgrass.

Ah, you forgot me, though.

36 Interesting how the very thing that causes "global warming" - the sun (NOT man) - is supposed to be the panacea that saves us from "global warming." And my uncle of blessed memory got cut in half by a Jap machine gun for this insanity?! Fuck Marx up is borscht-hole sideways with the head of Woodrow Wilson.

37 It is not Obama's fault. The Sun has lowered it's intensity on purpose to make Obama look bad because it is "RACIST" !!!!

38 interesting thing just happened

39 I have often wondered why there are not more geothermal plants? Any insight?

Lack of usable sites, cost of upkeep, and a few other things.  They're great where they can be set up and maintained, but they're still not a panacea.

40 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 11:18 AM (8y9MW)

Success based on a huge subsidy? I doubt that those are market-based windmills.

41 That should be More, More, More subsidies, ala Steyn.

42 interesting thing just happened

And that would be...?

43 43 two graves I would love to piss on. Easily make my top 10 list of most hated people in the world. Ever.

44 the geo thermal is great if you have land.....

45 50 allen part of my nic disappeared but it's back now so.....

46 Posted by: phoenixgirl..(oZfic) is curious link at your own peril at November 30, 2011 11:21 AM (SH3gZ)

Care to share with the class?

47 When the Chebby Volt Administration, - fueled by the Lithium-Ion President, - comes up with a brilliant new energy-related idea, chances are it's a crony kickback.

48

Just how many? Of the few hundred or so solar panel makers worldwide, just 20 to 40 are expected to remain standing in a few years time, said Mark Bachman, a renewables analyst at Avian Securities.

A failure rate (assuming 200 to 400 solar panel manufacturers) of at least 80% to 90%.  No wonder the governments of the world are going broke, as our "betters" allocate money hand over fist on endeavors that have no chance of standing on their own. 

49 Success based on a huge subsidy? I doubt that those are market-based windmills.

The whole energy market is so skewed now, that it's hard to tell.  But they are making a profit and paying dividends (as promised), so I'm guessing they're doing okay.

50 51 Posted by: Lord Humungus Wasteland Teahadi at November 30, 2011 11:23 AM (Yv6gq) I think you just gave me an idea for a new travel/tour company! Regulate this, SCOAMF!

51
The good news is we are only about a month or so away from the full scale MFM telling us everyday how good the economy is and a little extra  manipulation of govt numbers to be memory holed in the revisions.

Won't help you.  But at least it will sound good.  So there's that.

52 The hubby went crazy and bought a wood pellet stove, and we got $500 back from the state.  Criminy there were 23 different rebate deals for green energy!  

But the price of pellets went way up because the wood products industry here is in the tank.  Plus it needs electricity to operate, so where's the emergency value in that?   So we stopped using it 2 years ago. 

53 Why do you hate me?! Sob! Posted by: Gaia at November 30, 2011 11:20 AM

You have been trying to kill us from the beginning, Medea. Now that the tables are turned, you want a truce? Hard cheese, Sister.

54 shortened it....

55 Going OT....early & often!

Lawyer accused of seeking secretary 'with benefits' gets one-year suspension

Isn’t that really an ‘escort’ and (if I remember how much Elliot Spitzer paid) isn’t that about $4000 an hour?

56 Subsidizing green energy makes about as much sense as as a Walking Dead Christmas special.

I drove from Western Colorado to Olympia Washington last week and was amazed at the number of windmills that I saw, most of them not turning.  I guess wind is racist.

57 We just need to cut back on oil production, that will spur private investment in alternative energy so we won't lose these green jobs.

58 Just for the record....that isn't me.

Didn't think it was. But it's interesting you felt compelled to offer up that information *snicker*

59

None of this should have been a surprise to anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of how markets work.   Any product -- and I mean any product, good or service -- that can be made and sold profitably, will be made and sold profitably.   This is the work of the "invisible hand" that Adam Smith understood, oh, about 235 years ago.   Any product -- and I mean any product, good or service -- that requires a subsidy in order to be made and sold profitably is, by definition, not something that can be made and sold profitably absent the subsidy.   To put it simply for our liberal friends, if it's a good product, it's already being developed and sold without government subsidies.   If it needs subsidies, it's a bad product to begin with.  Solar panels are self-evidently a bad product.

 

The problem with crony capitalism and the steering of subsidies to favored industries is that it's all crony and no capitalism.   It's not a question of the government being unable to consistently pick winners; it's really an axiom that government can only pick losers, because the winners would already be winning without the subsidy.  

 

Unless by "winning" you mean getting rich by stealing money from taxpayers.

60

POTUS stimulus investment strategy:

Green energy - bomb

Small Pox vaccine - huh?

Unicorns and sparkles - next

61

Solar Energy economics.

The impregnable Maginot Line

Bernie Madoff's investing acumen

Enron's profits

Phar-Mor's inventory

Sunbeam's recovery

Chevy Volt's sales success

Reality.

 

One of these things is not like the others.

62

*chuckle*

Lesse',  start with the energy output of one yard of the sun (we'll call that "lot's") and then we divide "lots" by 93000000mi squared equals, diddly-squat.

Wait, forgot to factor by like units.

(How many yards in a mile again?...)

63 The good news is we are only about a month or so away from the full scale MFM telling us everyday how good the economy is and a little extra  manipulation of govt numbers to be memory holed in the revisions.

Won't help you.  But at least it will sound good.  So there's that.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk

I remember having to defend the 5% unemployment figure during the Bush presidency.

64 shortened it.... Posted by: phoenixgirl

When I saw that hash string in your name, my first instinct was to skip over it.

65

Hey, the guy in Birdemic got $10 million to fund his company producing slrpnnls in the first week! (You have to have heard the Rifftrax commentary on how the "actor's" garbled enunciation.)

66 @74, It's amazing what a one slide ppt can do for you.

67 Hey, the guy in Birdemic got $10 million to fund his company producing slrpnnls in the first week! (You have to have heard the Rifftrax commentary on how the "actor's" garbled enunciation.)

One of my best students.

68 I remember having to defend the 5% unemployment figure during the Bush presidency.

Posted by: Dang at November 30, 2011 11:29 AM (BbX1b)

Dang and video of the homeless.

I wonder where all the homeless went, with this great economy I'm sure every soul is warm and fed in their comfy homes.

69 29 Our Repub governor is seriously considering "clean energy" as an economic lifeline here

For all of our infrastructure problems, the wind-farms in West Texas really are doing very well.  It would be nice if we had the money to spend on creating a major energy pipeline from the West (where it can be generated, but isn't needed) to the East (where it can't be reliably generated, but is needed).

That said- it works in West Texas because they just get that much wind, and no one was using that land anyway.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 11:18 AM (8y9MW)

-------

Uh no, sorry - try again.  Neither Wind or Solar comes close to the efficiency of fossil fuels......and won't for at least a century or two - the technology just isn't there.  I can't speak to west Texas, but the wind farms here in Oklahoma are affordable simply because the power companies that build them receive generous federal subsidies.  And, even with the subsidies, we get far less than 1% of our energy from wind - and this is with several thousand wind turbines in place and operating.   It's a waste of time and money.

70

I wonder where all the homeless went, with this great economy I'm sure every soul is warm and fed in their comfy homes.

Posted by: willow at November 30, 2011 11:34 AM (h+qn

They're all at OWS.

71 67 Posted by: The Regular Guy at November 30, 2011 11:27 AM (qHCyt) THIS.

72 So in a nutshell, the government gives subsidies to green energy companies so they can compete against proven energy companies that pay revenue to the government.

Pay money to lose money.

So much nuance makes my head hurt.

73 But the Solyndra plant was so clean and high tech, with people in white coats and those cool robot arms and shit.

74 Subsidies and tax breaks for big oil companies are horrible and a sign of Bush Cheney cronyism. Subsidies and tax breaks for green energy companies are great and a sign that we are helping the planet.

75 You know, if that secretary had been subsidized by the Alternate Lifestyle Agency, that would have been no problem.

76 Bernie Quigley (The Hill) has something to say about

Sarah Palin LINK

Excerpt:

Sarah Palin, still a paid commentator I believe for Fox, should go direct on Judge Andrew Napolitano’s show — he the honest, courageous dean of free comment today — and say this: “I am thinking of entering the Republican primary campaign.”

See what happens.

77 I can't speak to west Texas, but the wind farms here in Oklahoma are affordable simply because the power companies that build them receive generous federal subsidies.  And, even with the subsidies, we get far less than 1% of our energy from wind

That's right, you can't speak to West Texas (pedantry break: a direction is a Proper Noun).  I have very close ties (most of my family) to that area, and they pay a great deal of attention (because they had to have a bond election to get one of the wind-farms set up).  They know what kind of money is coming in, and what kind of production those farms get.

I know they don't work everywhere, and I know they're inefficient from a land use standpoint.  In West Texas, they do work, and no one was using that particular land, anyway- so any use is more efficient than no use.

I'm not suggesting we further subsidize "green energy," I'm pointing out that there are some (very few) cases where it does work.

78 Like everything else the leftards do, the "green industries" are built on wishes and bullshit. Thats why they never learn from their mistakes, they never review their past decisions and say "we fucked up". They just make excuses and point fingers in a radial direction. Thats why no matter how many times socialism fails miserably, they will make up an excuse and go back for more. Stupid just isn't curable by any means other than death.

79 @ 67 Trouble is 1 college graduate out of 100,000 might know who Adam Smith was. The ratio gets even worse asking for any college graduate when asking them to explain the concept of a free market. Oh Milton, you left these earthly bounds to soon!

80 But the Solyndra plant was so clean and high tech, with people in white coats and those cool robot arms and shit.

And robots that sang The Internationale.

81 bah replace the first "asking for" with "expecting" in post 91

82 22

We have 500 years of natural gas supply (it closed at $2.81/mcf yesterday) at current known reserves and nuclear energy is the cleanest, safest way to generate electricity.  New designs of coal fired plants approach the air quality of natural gas.  But try to get a new plant, of any design, permitted. 

We are going to bankrupt the coal industry

83 I thought that power from the sun was free? How can prices be collapsing?

84 I know a guy who signed up for green energy from a provider.  He actually believes that windmills are providing all of his electricity at home.  So innocent. And so fucking stupid,  all at the same time.

85

Subsidizing green energy makes about as much sense as a Walking Dead Christmas special.

I would like that, provided I get to see Daryl in a Santa hat.

(And preferably nothing else).

*le coughie cough*

86 There's one out in West Texas. It's a beauty. Been raided by the FBI twice now.
Was paying his wife $7000 per month as chief bookkeeper or something--even though she'd never been a bookkeeper in her life. Bought a Shelby Cobra from a NBA star.
Took a recent trip to Switzerland, seems to have had need to set up some accounts there.
As always, the "green" is not in the energy, but in the graft.

87

With the price slashing under way, perhaps there will come a silver lining. Adoption. Folks sitting on the fence, waiting for panel prices to drop, may scoop up some really good deals, lowering inventories, which will drive demand, which will drive supply, and with the new price point established perhaps we will see increased adoption. This, perhaps, will give this important technology an opportunity to gain some much needed momentum, without the unseemly government subsidy. That is the objection, right, the subsidy? A conservative does not have to hate new tech, specifically solar, right? We just want things, products-services, to struggle uphill without the boost of the taxpayer rocket, right? I sure hope that is the conservative stance on this market.

88 wind and solar make sense in places that are miles off the grid. Trying to scale them up to power cities, only liberals could think this is a good idea.

89

We could really use the earthy wisdom and insight of a Thorton Melon right about now:

Thorton Melon:  Oh, you left out a bunch of stuff.

Dr. Phillip Barbay:   Oh really? Like what for instance?

Thorton Melon:   First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boyscouts.

 

Dr. Phillip Barbay: That will be quite enough, Mr. Melon! Maybe bribes, kickbacks and Mafia payoffs are how YOU do business! But they are NOT part of the legitimate business world! And they are certainly not part of anything I am doing in this class. Do I make myself clear, Mr. Melon!

Dr. Phillip Barbay:   ...now, not withstanding Mr. Melon's input. The next question for us is where to build our factory? 

Thorton Melon:   how 'bout fantasyland?

90 Oh Milton, you left these earthly bounds to soon!

I saw a rebroadcast of an interview with him made on the fiftieth anniversary of Hayek's Road to Serfdom; i.e., around 1994 shortly after the USSR went Solyndra.  He said that now, that is, then, everybody knew that socialism was a failure.  Milty, you were a smart guy but you blew that one.

91 I know a guy who signed up for green energy from a provider.  He actually believes that windmills are providing all of his electricity at home

There's one of those companies in my area: they claim "100% Green Energy!" or something like that.  They show up at local fairs and such.  Out of deference to my wife, I resist the urge to go up to them and make them look like fools.

92 You do realize once the Supreme Court says the Government can force you to buy stuff, every home will be required to have a solar panel and a windmill, for the children or something.

93

Over 100 and I'm going OT.

 

Don't you just love those silly ol' labor unions?

94 Subsidizing green energy makes about as much sense as a Walking Dead Christmas special.

A Christmas special.  Hmmm.

95

So a couple of nights ago while I was walking around the darkening neighborhood trying to cast off my PMS it dawned on me that the family (3 guys at home right now) were going to want dinner (this comes as a surprise to me at least 4 times a week). I had cooked a lot for them over thanksgiving, but no, they still want to eat. I didn't have anything so I decided to race to the grocery and buy a meal.

I flew around the store, got ingrediants and beef and got in line. There of course was a problem (because I was in that line, never fails) with some woman's coupon. Got that solved and the next broad moves up.

She's emaciated. She has a plastic box of organic greens, a 4 pack of brown eggs, a single zucchini, a single sweet potato, a single banana, a single pear, etc. Some other organic crap too and organic skim milk. She lets them load everything into plastic bags and only then reminds them that she wants it all in her Public Television ecoli ridden tote bags. They unpack everything and repack it so it can, without plastic, get as much ecoli exposure as possible.

I'm making shooting myself in my temple gestures to the other checkers. I will never again get behind the "personal" bag people. The checkers tell me how gross they are and how they've started wearing latex gloves for that reason.

Green my ass.

96

Green Energy Economics 101

Green Energy is unreliable.  The Wind only blows sometimes, and the Solar does not work at night... sooo...

You must also have more traditional methods of supplying energy for when those Green technologies do not provide energy.  This means you MUST pay for the production facilities for that energy...

So, you CAN save on Fuel costs for the traditional plants... however...

Until the savings for Fuel exceed the cost of Contructing the Solar Plants/ Windmills, AND Transmission lines to get the energy where it needs to be???? Its a net Global LOSS to the Economy.

So, we are subsidizing, with Tax dollars, a technology which is a Net Loss to the overall economy... and then the Government wonders why the Economy is tanking???

97

Posted by: The Inverse-square law at November 30, 2011 11:29 AM (WDySP)

Not only that, but because of various environmental factors (*ahem* dust and another particulates), the amount of sunlight that reaches the Earth's surface is even more diluted during transit from space to the ground.

This analogy is apt in describing the futility of utilizing solar panels as a major source of energy.  There are tons and tons of gold and other valuable metals in dem seas, but because their concentrations are so slow and it would be tremendously expensive to obtain these metals, it would not be worth the effort to start mining the seas extensively with current technologies.

It might be feasible to one day harvest solar energy from satellites, but again there are enormous hurdles (transmission and such) to overcome before that is economically feasible.

98 when "green" stuff first started being marketed....cleaning products, personal hygiene products, paper goods, clothing.......i remember thinking....this stuff is EXPENSIVE! and as for the cleaning stuff.....it doesn't even work......so i'm supposed to pay more for less efficiency? i don't think so......

99 "As always, the "green" is not in the energy, but in the graft. "

If AGW really existed and was a "crisis," Sec. Chu would just buy all those solar panels and distribute them to use for free.

But no...

100 There's one of those companies in my area: they claim "100% Green Energy!" or something like that.  They show up at local fairs and such.  Out of deference to my wife, I resist the urge to go up to them and make them look like fools.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney

Same here, brother.

101 Green my ass.

Well, in fairness, many types of mold are green.

102

Someone please explain something to me.

"Green" energy is the "future," but green energy cannot produce enough energy to meet our needs.  It must be supplemented with traditional fossil fuels if it's to have any feasibility whatsoever.

"Electric cars" are the "green" option for feelgoodhopey liberals who want people to like them.  Electric cars need to be recharged.  This uses energy.

So what do the lefties think they're doing when they plug in their Chevy Volts for the night (provided they haven't gone up in a fireball during the day)?  Do they think the electricity that powers their little deathboxes is being generated by unicorns dancing with nymphs through fields of clover and daisies?  How can they be so mind-numbingly stupid?

(That last question is rhetorical, but I have to ask anyway.)

103 Same here, brother.

When I see their stupid little tents, I do at least ask her if I can go mock them.  Maybe one day she'll say "yes."  Until then, my couch is not comfortable enough to make that fight worth it.

104 There's a reason that the label 'Green' is also associated with mold and rotting.

Obama is a Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Miserable Failure.

105

so i'm supposed to pay more for less efficiency?

You'll pay more for less and like it!

106 39 there used to be a link on here that showed a guy who figured out how to make solar panels for pennies.......but that's gone now......

Posted by: phoenixgirl..(oZfic) is at November 30, 2011 11:20 AM (SH3gZ)

Yes, it's on the shelf next to the carburetor that can get 80 mile per gallon.

Just above the engine that burns water.

107 Do they think the electricity that powers their little deathboxes is being generated by unicorns dancing with nymphs through fields of clover and daisies?

Yes.

How can they be so mind-numbingly stupid?

You realize that the difference between being stupid and being "dumb" is that you choose to be stupid, yes?

108 Prices keep coming down, it might actually make sense to buy some....

109 89 I can't speak to west Texas, but the wind farms here in Oklahoma are affordable simply because the power companies that build them receive generous federal subsidies.  And, even with the subsidies, we get far less than 1% of our energy from wind

That's right, you can't speak to West Texas (pedantry break: a direction is a Proper Noun).  I have very close ties (most of my family) to that area, and they pay a great deal of attention (because they had to have a bond election to get one of the wind-farms set up).  They know what kind of money is coming in, and what kind of production those farms get.

I know they don't work everywhere, and I know they're inefficient from a land use standpoint.  In West Texas, they do work, and no one was using that particular land, anyway- so any use is more efficient than no use.

I'm not suggesting we further subsidize "green energy," I'm pointing out that there are some (very few) cases where it does work.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 11:39 AM (8y9MW)

----

Again, I'm not aware of what outside subsidies they may be receiving, but without "free money" there simply is no valid business case for wind energy ANYWHERE.  If you look at the initial expenditures and long-term maintenance costs, they simply make no sense.  There is no magic involved - it's simple physics.

Now, it is true that if wind energy made sense anywhere (it doesn't) it would make sense in west Texas.  There is a swath of area in North America beginning about in central Oklahoma and running west to the desert where there is consistent wind year-round.  However, again, physics and real-world costs get in the way of making it efficient and worth-while.

110 Note that even Bartertown ran on pig shit power, with the abundance of sunlight in the wasteland, Auntie was into profit.

111

I was in a focus group where they wanted to know if I were more likely to shop in a store that was "powered with green energy".

"Like what?"

"Wind, solar, and other renewable energies?"

"Where would this store get wind energy? There aren't any local windmills."

"Ok, then solar and other renewables."

"I don't want my groceries being cooled by solar power since it is not reliable and I don't want to be poisoned."

"Well, it would be backed up and there would be other renewables."

"You keep saying other renewables, do you mean nuclear?"

"Oh, no!"

"What then?"

"I don't know, batteries?"

"Those are chemicals, that's not green, where is the power coming from that you put in the batteries? Did you know most of those chemicals come from china?"

" You know what we mean."

"Yeah, I know, but you don't. There are NO AFFORDABLE alternative sources of energy. The only viable sources are coal, hydroelectric if local, nuclear and other fossil fuels."

I screwed up their focus group

112 I screwed up their focus group

I approve.

We need to do more of this.

113 dagny lol!

114 Now wait a minute heah. There's gonna be none of these heah windmills neah our compound! 

115 Do they think the electricity that powers their little deathboxes is being generated by unicorns dancing with nymphs through fields of clover and daisies?

That's why you refer to the Volt as 'Coal-Powered'.  Makes heads explode.

We just want things, products-services, to struggle uphill without the boost of the taxpayer rocket, right? I sure hope that is the conservative stance on this market.

Posted by: Errol at November 30, 2011 11:42 AM (vewos)

No Errol.  Since we're paying for it, we just want the product to work.  As it stands now and in the foreseeable future, solar does not.

116  there used to be a link on here that showed a guy who figured out how to make solar panels for pennies.......but that's gone now......

Posted by: phoenixgirl..(oZfic) is at November 30, 2011 11:20 AM (SH3gZ)

Yes, it's on the shelf next to the carburetor that can get 80 mile per gallon.

Just above the engine that burns water.

Posted by: Jimmuy at November 30, 2011 11:50 AM (ycMO4)

 

All those miracle devices and more can be found in the JC Whitney catalog.  Operators are standing by ...

117 Connecticut tried the green energy thing last year when they built a new state building.  They put in tons of fuel cells and were paying 148 million for them.  Some rocket scientist finally did the math and found out that if they compared them with regular electric to light and heat the building the payback on the fuel cells would be over 150 years.  They very quietly last month turned them off and had the company take them back.  The tiny article in the paper said they didnt make a big deal out of it because people wouldn't understand.

118 Walking Dead Christmas special

That one, I would watch.  It would be... historic, or maybe hysterical.

119

I screwed up their focus group

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2011 11:54 AM (I4h50)

You probably guaranteed a place for yourself in heaven.

120 Thanks to a new generation of hard-working visionaries, Texas is leading the way in renewable energy as well. Since this room is full of experts, I'll spare you a lengthy discussion of wind energy's benefits but I do want to mention a few highlights of our state's success. I'm proud that we lead the nation in installed wind generation capacity, because it took some serious work to reach first place. Of course, there's no shortage of wind in Texas, but it took a lot of bold entrepreneurs to make it a significant source of our power. Partnered with some of the brightest minds in the energy business from the public and private sector and the experts at world-class universities like Texas Tech these folks have achieved remarkable success in a relatively short time. Way back in 2005, I signed legislation that set some lofty goals 5,880 megawatts of renewable production capacity by 2015 and 10,000 megawatts by 2025. In true Texas style, we've already hit those marks and are building out capacity faster than any other U.S. state. In just the last three years, about half of the 10,000-plus megawatts of renewable energy that is providing power to our energy grids...came online. This effort and the accompanying $18 billion in investment have helped us meet our state's energy needs while helping to lower electricity prices for all Texans. The work continues as we add wind capacity and work to connect these wind farms to the grid and our major cities. That's a daunting task on its own but Texans don't back down from a challenge particularly one that means so much to our future. That future includes the expanding energy needs of a population that grows by about 1,000 people per day and an economy that has already added more than 166,000 new jobs this year more jobs than any other state. Fortunately, this new partnership between the National Institute for Sustainable Energy and the National Wind Resource Center will strengthen our position as America's wind power leader and keep us moving toward energy independence. This partnership will help speed the integration of our massive wind resources with our power grid and set standards other states can follow in pursuit of our success.

121 When the Chebby Volt Administration, - fueled by the Lithium-Ion President, - comes up with a brilliant new energy-related idea, chances are it's a crony kickback.

Posted by: Fritz at November 30, 2011 11:24 AM (/ZZCn)

Is that with or without the spontaneous combustion?

122 You realize that the difference between being stupid and being "dumb" is that you choose to be stupid, yes?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 11:51 AM (8y9MW)

Well, yes.  But I did say that question was rhetorical.

I've gotta say, I'm really looking forward to the days of unsolicited rolling blackouts up here in New England.  Especially during the winter.  Oooh, that'll be SO MUCH FUN. 

123

My smart son who is no libtard didn't have the first clue where electricity comes from when we had this discussion the other day. I think he vaguely thought it was produced by lightening.

Apparently he's been ignoring my rants for over a decade. Probably a good thing really.

124 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 11:49 AM (8y9MW)

So, how long till a post on your new blog?

125 7 Everyone is losing money on every unit sold.  Posted by: toby928 at November 30, 2011 11:08 AM

They'll make it up on volume!

BUY BUY BUY !!!!

126 Of the few hundred or so solar panel makers worldwide, just 20 to 40 are expected to remain standing in a few years time Around the early 1900s there were something like 100 auto manufacturers in the US. There was a thinning of the herd. Imagine if the govt. had been subsidizing dozens of 'em!

127

I screwed up their focus group

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2011 11:54 AM (I4h50)

and how!

kudos

128 unsolicited rolling blackout

When would someone ask for a rolling blackout?

129 The most cost effective way to use solar power is to let crops convert it to energy. Then let the plants build up for 100,000 years and compress. Then dig the plants up and burn them. We could call the resulting resource coal or something.

130 "So naturally the liberal response will be...more subsidies!" IOW, continuation of the policy of the Bush administration. Ask yourselves about the rising ratio of non-fossil fuel-based energy production and use in this country versus fossil-fuel-based, and you'll find ... oh, sorry, 'scuse me: the percentage of energy company types here at AoSHQ is more than enough to finish that sentence. I really don't get the paranoia here. EVERYONE in energy stocks these days is diversified. Big Oil, all those companies are diversified - okay, not so much Koch Industries, but they're more into after production and have been for decades. And you know what? The public KNOWS about vencap failures - hell, over a third of all current members of the 'employable' worker pool has had personal experience with working for a new business or vencap that failed - over ONE THIRD. There's got be a different and more effective message to be exploited here, especially since Solyandra's not going anywhere after Chu's testimony (or Issa's Failure).

131 They didn't look at the actuary tables!!11!!1!!

132 So, how long till a post on your new blog?

Probably tonight.  I might get a chance this afternoon, but it'll probably be this evening.  I'm going to aim for Sunday and Wednesday evenings (so they'll be up for Monday and Thursday).

I still need to set up a twitter feed for that email address, too.

133 When would someone ask for a rolling blackout?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 12:01 PM (8y9MW)

When would someone ask for the government to tax them more? 

134 Christmas is coming dude, I gotta get my shopping done.

Touché

135 145 The most cost effective way to use solar power is to let crops convert it to energy. Then let the plants build up for 100,000 years and compress. Then dig the plants up and burn them. We could call the resulting resource coal or something.

Posted by: maddogg at November 30, 2011 12:01 PM (OlN4e)

By gum, it's so crazy it JUST MIGHT WORK.

136 When would someone ask for the government to tax them more?

When they're lying?
Or when they're really, really principled.

137 OT, but dammit, our state legislature just upheld the governor's veto of NH's Right to Work legislation.  G-ddammit.

138 Looks like Obama World is going to implode well before the next election and scheduled coronation.

Gird your loins.

139 I've done several of these focus groups and i've noticed that the black people there are actually more open minded and reasonable than the whites. When I went to one about whether the state should ban vending machines in schools and they showed us the "death by vending machine" video everybody but me was willing to go with the state law thing. I did a Thomas Paine thing about liberty and all the black people flipped to my side. The white libtards stayed firm on the side of statism. I think it's an interesting thing that, if they got the right info, they might be movable.

140

I for one am looking forward to the impending energy crisis. While ya'll were buying stocks in solar power companies, I've been hoarding Snuggies.

Cha-CHING!!  

 

141  The most cost effective way to use solar power is to let crops convert it to energy. Then let the plants build up for 100,000 years and compress. Then dig the plants up and burn them. We could call the resulting resource coal or something. Posted by: maddogg

"Ya know, this actually works!  Been doing for quite a while now.
Folks used to really like it."  *walks away, shaking head*

142 153 When would someone ask for the government to tax them more?

When they're lying?
Or when they're really, really principled.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 30, 2011 12:05 PM (8y9MW)

EXACTLY.

Or when they're lying about being really, really principled, and then go and use their tax breaks anyway.  I'm looking at YOU, Hollywood.

143 I think this thread needs a link to Penn & Teller's Bullshit episode on recycling.
Here's a clip where they test how far someone will go to sort their trash to recycle.
Gawd, it is all a stupid scam.

144

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2011 11:54 AM (I4h50)

Dagny, you reminded me of my conversation over dinner at a big birthday party.  I sat down with 6-8 young'uns near the pool and listened to two still in college, two just out, a 40ish couple talking about going to work for the World Bank or another do-gooder organization.  Then the talk turned to the pipeline to bring Alberta tar sand oil to Texas for refining.  The runner was bemoaning the air quality decline that was sure to result and sighed "I wish we could just outlaw petroleum."

I couldn't take any more and asked if she was prepared to give up the plastic water bottle from which she was drinking.  Answer: Yep!  Did she and Don walk to Rolf's house that night or drive their car?  Drove.  Was she prepared to give up all the medicine made from petroleum and accept that she might die at age 45 of infection?  Unsure.  The 6 billion people in the world were nourished by the fertilizer that made the crops grow.  Are you prepared to have half, 3 billion people, die of famine? 

They got up and left.

145

Now, it is true that if wind energy made sense anywhere (it doesn't) it would make sense in west Texas.  There is a swath of area in North America beginning about in central Oklahoma and running west to the desert where there is consistent wind year-round.  However, again, physics and real-world costs get in the way of making it efficient and worth-while.

Posted by: Racist, Right-Wing Terrorist in Midwest...Or Tea Party Member for Short at November 30, 2011 11:51 AM (YUwuZ)

They intersperse the windmills between the oil wells in West Texas.  Efficient use of otherwise wasted land. 

146

There's a reason that the label 'Green' is also associated with mold and rotting.

And envy. Don't forget envy.

147
Just like the happy meal thing.
Just like everything libs do - double down on the stupid.

It's like sticking your hand into a flame.
You burn your hand.

A conservative would stop sticking his hand into the flame.

A liberal will try tying a towel around his hand and stick it into the flame.
Then, when the towel catches on fire and their hand burns even worse, the liberal tries tying another towel around that one. Only now, it's harder to take the burning towels off of your hand and then their arm gets burned too. So the response is to wrap another towel around that one. Then their face gets burned. And so on. And so on.

148 damn sock

149 I don't have anything against solar power. There are places where it makes sense - satellites, remote instrumentation that needs to charge a power supply, etc. In general industry consolidation means that there is a mature market. Look at computers. Fifteen years ago you could buy a PC from eleventy zillion different makers, pick up a Computer Shopper and take your pick. That the vast majority of those are out of business is no reflection on the health of the computer industry, it is doing fine. But all those PC makers did not take down a bunch of taxpayer backed loans with them. And people and companies buy PCs with their own money, so the market wasn't overinflated and distorted.

150 OT: Senate balks at Obama threat to veto defense authorization bill. Clears procedural hurdle 88 to 12. (@ChadPergram)

151 I have often wondered why there are not more geothermal plants? Any insight?

The temperature delta is there, but it is impractical to drill down to get it; you are limited by the size of the pipe as to how much energy you can extract that way.

Imagine a hydroelectric plant only instead of a Dam and a river somebody tried to run it with a garden hose - you can only spin a very small generator that way.
 

152
And envy. Don't forget envy.

Meh.... and a whole gaggle of tree huggers can be classified as gang green.

**rimshot**

153
So the F and F whistleblowers basically get demoted, the higher ups basically get promoted and the OdipO administration seals the records in the Brian Terry murder.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

154 OT again, but would it be terribly obvious if I faked a sudden case of acute appendicitis and left work early, so I wouldn't have to listen to my fellow State employees exulting over the Right-to-Work veto override failure?  Because even with Rush on my headphones jacked up to 10, their tittering and general jubilation is a background hum that is driving me nuts.

155 CNN: Solar Prices Collapsing, Bankruptcies To Follow

It's deja vu all over again

156

I want to morn the loss of the old growth solar panels...

And the trees, of course.

http://tinyurl.com/5t58zx

 

 

157 O/T: Israeli intelligence says the Iran blast the other day was real and spectacular.  LOL.

158 Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at November 30, 2011 11:42 AM (qjUnn)

Thanks for the heads up. Tipton is close enough for me to drive to when they eventually go bust. The going out of business sale will hopefully have units I could afford.

159
Faith in Government

That's the new Merry Christmas Happy Holidays.

160 Pull my finger

161
Faith in Government

That's the new Merry Christmas Happy Holidays Heil Hitler.

162 > Now, it is true that if wind energy made sense anywhere (it doesn't) it would make sense in west Texas. ... Posted by: Racist, Right-Wing Terrorist in Midwest...Or Tea Party Member for Short at November 30, 2011 11:51 AM (YUwuZ) They intersperse the windmills between the oil wells in West Texas. Efficient use of otherwise wasted land. Posted by: Vashta Nerada Sort of. Don't forget that every 100 megawatt of wind power requires a 100 megawatts of instant-on electrical generation like gas turbines to back it up. Actually, since wind at best only produces 25-30% of it's capacity over time, the gas turbines run most of the time. Since gas is cheap and getting cheaper, it sort of calls the whole wind part of the equation into question. (I'm talking about a system where wind is expected to contribute a lot of power - over 10% of the total. If wind is used for 1 or 2% the gas turbines might not be needed)

163 176 O/T: Israeli intelligence says the Iran blast the other day was real and spectacular.  LOL.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 30, 2011 12:19 PM (tqwMN)

Pfft.  http://tinyurl.com/7ftsae9

nsfw..kinda

164
When you sneeze, someone will say, "Faith in Government."

165 Troubled companies?  I know just who to call...Jon Corzine!

166 Transparency!

The Obama Administration has abruptly sealed court records containing alarming details of how Mexican drug smugglers murdered a U.S. Border patrol agent with a gun connected to a failed federal experiment that allowed firearms to be smuggled into Mexico.

167

RUSSIA has threatened to cut off the only alternative US and NATO supply route into Afghanistan, raising the possibility that 130,000 coalition troops, including Australians, could be left isolated.

The threat by Russia's NATO envoy Dmitri Rogozin to protest against plans for a ballistic missile defence system in Europe capitalises on the row with Pakistan, which closed its borders to NATO trucks this week after a deadly attack on two military bases.

168 OT: Now I wish I got Military Channel.  Even if Discovery/TLC are (generally) left-tards.

169
The greeting on the celebration of Obama's birthday will be, "Faith in Government."

And you will respond with, "And in all those in Washington Capital City."

170 And just think, Maxine Waters is taking Franks place in Congress. The economy is in the best of hands.

171
Thanks be to Government

May Government protect us.

172 I'm starting to think this crisis went to waste.

173 Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 30, 2011 12:24 PM (Qxdfp)

Watergate didn't have a body count.

Posted by: Soothsayer 2021 at November 30, 2011 12:25 PM (sqkOB)

Have you read The Hunger Games, by chance?

174
May Government be with you.

(And also with you.)

175 123 Prices keep coming down, it might actually make sense to buy some....
Posted by: notropis at November 30, 2011 11:51 AM

Prices have never been lower, come on down !!!

176
Never heard of The Hunger Games.

177 109 I had cooked a lot for them over thanksgiving, but no, they still want to eat.
_________

It's similarly annoying when my checkbook doesn't stay balanced and the bills don't remain paid.

Sigh.

178 Never heard of The Hunger Games.

Those quotes could have been pulled directly from it.
It's actually a better book than I feared it would be.  Which means I have no hope for the movie that is slated to come out.

179 This analogy is apt in describing the futility of utilizing solar panels as a major source of energy.  There are tons and tons of gold and other valuable metals in dem seas, but because their concentrations are so slow and it would be tremendously expensive to obtain these metals, it would not be worth the effort to start mining the seas extensively with current technologies.

To obtain 1 oz of gold from the sea one has to discard $50,000 worth of salt. Bottom line - nobody is ever going to mine metals from the sea.

180
just glanced at what The Hunger Games is about

Heh.

181 The main drawback of geothermal energy is the possibility of drilling straight through the Earth's crust and unleashing the fury of Hell.

182 There are tons and tons of gold and other valuable metals in dem seas

One word:  Nodules.

183

Sorta O/T:  The inconvenient truth about photosynthesis.

Japanese Satellites say 3rd World Owes CO2 Reparations to The West

h/t small dead animals

 

184
Instead of priests, we'll have Government Advisers.

185 We have assumed control ... we have assumed control ...

186

Bottom line - nobody is ever going to mine metals from the sea.

 

I heard that on the deep ocean floors there are huge nodules of precious metals that just need to be scooped up...or maybe I'm on dope.

187 just glanced at what The Hunger Games is about

Heh.

After having read it, I wonder if Liberals (who love the book), just completely lack the introspection necessary to realize it's pointing out what a bad plan their ideal government is.  Or if they've really deluded themselves into thinking that's what Conservatives want to set up.

188

Gah, as a dumbass lurker I screwed up the hyperlinks...extra https

 

189 139 My smart son who is no libtard didn't have the first clue where electricity comes from when we had this discussion the other day. I think he vaguely thought it was produced by lightening.

Apparently he's been ignoring my rants for over a decade. Probably a good thing really.
_________

Dagny's son in the distant future:

"It's times like this that I wish I had listened to what my mother said."
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know. I wasn't listening."

190
Can you imagine passing others on the street and saying to each other, "Faith in Government?"

I can.

191 OT:  Not to worry....we're in good hands.....

ChadPergram Chad Pergram House now debating resolution to name a room in the Capitol Visitor's Center after slain Giffords' aide Gabe Zimmerman.

192 Sooth, how about "Faith in Smith&Wesson"?

193

hey for us grouchy guys, cant there be some peace thread of sorts?

*gets angry looks from morons who now think i'm a hippie spy*

194

The first thing leftists throw out of the equation: supply and demand. Much better for the left-winger to impose their will, hit up the tax payer, then watch it burn without consequence. Then again, as we know, leftists use emotion, feelings, bad faith (corrupt science) and communist theory as the backbone of their understanding of economics and how the world works.

Solid economic theory is an absolutely foreign concept to the left. Hence: Krugman.  

195 How about:  Are you of the body?

196
Government protects us all. No need for guns in 2021.

197

Any product -- and I mean any product, good or service -- that can be made and sold profitably, will be made and sold profitably. 

 

 

Bending over backwards to be fair to our sinister friends (don't dare bend over forwards around them), this needs the qualifier "that people perceive" before "can be made and sold profitably." In principle, government could perceive a profitable opportunity before the market (stop laughing) and induce the market to pursue it.

In practice, however, the chances that a GS-13 time server will be a shrewder judge of investment opportunities than a VC standing to make millions are about the same as a T-ball team winning the World Series.

198
Complaining about the economy is outlawed.

Losing faith in Government is a crime.

199 How about: "Whiskey and hos for my men!"

200

To obtain 1 oz of gold from the sea one has to discard $50,000 worth of salt. Bottom line - nobody is ever going to mine metals from the sea.

 

Researchers have tried to extract gold from sea water through use of ion exchange resins specifically-designed to select for heavy metals. The problem? Running a few cubic kilometers of sea water through them - i.e., a volume necessary to get any decent amount of gold - dissolves the ion exchange resin. The resin isn't water soluble by ordinary standards, but when you're talking about cubic kilometers of water, everything is water soluble.

201

May the Blessings of the Bomb Almighty, and the Fellowship of the Holy Fallout, descend upon us all. This day and forever more.

Amen!

202 210
Can you imagine passing others on the street and saying to each other, "Faith in Government?"

I can.

Posted by: Soothsayer 2021 at November 30, 2011 12:33 PM (sqkOB)

 

How about:

[holds out a penny] Christmas Eve.

203

Dagny's son in the distant future:

"It's times like this that I wish I had listened to what my mother said."
"Why? What did she say?"
"I don't know. I wasn't listening."

Posted by: Anachronda at November 30, 2011 12:33 PM (xGZ+b)

I think they can remember most things before the hormones kick in. After that it's hard to grasp concepts because they keep getting interrupted by the thought *boobies*.

Another son's little catholic school used to have pizza and soda day once per month. We paid at the beginning of the year for them to get 1-2 slices of pizza and 1-2 cups of soda 1 (one) just ONE day per month. This year, they said they would still have pizza but no soda. Milk or water would be served. My 2nd grader wanted to know why. (I don't buy soda here at home so this was the only soda he was getting). I told him that there were parents who decided it was unhealthy. He asked why those children couldn't just have milk then and why his was taken away. I then got the chance to describe 1. Liberals 2. Statists 3. Democrats 4. Obama

This lesson will stick because he's listening and hasn't thought about boobies yet.

204 215 How about:  Are you of the body? Posted by: Count de Monet at November 30, 2011 12:36 PM

Festival !!!!

205 When would someone ask for a rolling blackout?
Posted by: AllenG

One hypenated word:

Valu-Rite

206 Plus it needs electricity to operate, so where's the emergency value in that? So we stopped using it 2 years ago. a small solar panel to charge the battery for you pellet loader should be cheap now.

207 dagny, my first grader asked why a restaurant closed, her 2nd grade brother answered Obama before I could chime in.

208

dagny, my first grader asked why a restaurant closed, her 2nd grade brother answered Obama before I could chime in.

On our family trip to Western NC last summer my 2nd grader wanted to go to Asheville and find a hippie to punch.

209

A year ago solar panels were selling for $1.50 to $2 per watt, said Ramesh Misra, a senior analyst at Brigantine Advisors, a research outfit. Now they sell for half that, and the decline hasn't stopped.

 

Where?

210

215   You! You're not of the Body. Landru? Landru?

211 iko
OOMN

212 182, if that isn't safe where you work -- time for a new job

213

The most cost effective way to use solar power is to let crops convert it to energy. Then let the plants build up for 100,000 years and compress. Then dig the plants up and burn them. We could call the resulting resource coal or something.

You just jostled loose a memory from my childhood that I had long forgotten.  Back in the very early '90s, my junior high "Earth Sciences" teacher was going through the unit on "non-renewable" resources versus "renewable" resources.  Non-renewable being filthy evil fossil fuels, and technically, nuclear (since we can't make more uranium), and renewable being everything else.  Yes, the indoctrination of how awesome those prototype solar panels could someday be had already begun.

Knowing full-well the answer, I raised my hand and asked where fossil fuels came from again.
Teacher:  "Dinosaurs and plant matter from hundreds of thousands of years ago, which have decayed."
Me:  "Don't plants still die and decay now?  Seems like that should be considered a renewable resource."
Teacher:  "...well, we...uhm...uh, use it up considerably faster than any could possibly be created..."
Me:  "How quickly we use it isn't part of the definition you just gave us, though.  Nonrenewable meant we don't get any more of it, renewable meant more can be created."
Teacher:  "...*sigh*...see me after class."
Girl I Secretly Liked:  "Man, what a nerd!"
Entire Class:  *laughter*
My Heart:  *cumpling sounds similar to when you ball up a sheet of paper*

...wait, where was I going with this...?

214 228 dagny, my first grader asked why a restaurant closed, her 2nd grade brother answered Obama before I could chime in.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2011 12:58 PM (WkuV6)

Love it!

215 224 blah blah blah *boobies* blah blah blah boobies blah blah
________

Oddly enough, I can sympathize with your son...

216

Wood pellet stove.

Wood.  Pellet.  Wood-pellets.

I'm sorry.  These are different from "logs" how, exactly?

217

@224, 236 - Yeah, unfortunately, we never revert back to "listening" mode.  Granted, we get better at pretending to listen, but that's really about it.

218

The threat by Russia's NATO envoy Dmitri Rogozin to protest against plans for a ballistic missile defence system in Europe capitalises on the row with Pakistan, which closed its borders to NATO trucks this week after a deadly attack on two military bases.

Posted by: Jared Loughner at November 30, 2011 12:24 PM (e8kgV)

Yes, selling out Georgia was just the down payment for those supply lines...

What? you think we had a Deal? Be thankful we do not alter it further....

219 These are different from "logs" how, exactly?

Uniformity I think.  Which means the furnace can be mechanically fed from a hopper.

220 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

221 @130 Actually, solar works quite well as long as you respect the limitations of the power source and understand that it is going to have a large up-front cost. I used to work on solar-powered equipment that got attached to oil and gas wells in West Texas, the Middle East, and on offshore production platforms. I'm a programmer, so I didn't do the hardware, but I understood that on each production platform you'd get so much volume, so much heat sink capacity, and so many square feet for solar panels. The requirement that they work day and night for 30 cloudy days was a given. I wonder if the folks who are so interested in solar realize that the big, nasty oil companies paid for a great deal of the research in photovoltaics that brought the cost down all through the last 30 years.

222 @144 AllenG, if you buy power by the megawatt-hour, you can see a substantial reduction in your rate by agreeing to have your power interrupted during periods of high demand. The discount you get would depend on how much notice you need before getting your power interrupted and how many times in a month you get to tell the power company that they can't interrupt the power right then. That's asking for a rolling blackout, and you do it to save a crapton of money.

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