1 The war was over for Germany in 1941. All that was being fought over was the western extent of Communism.

2 OT, but seeing this is the day Vaclav Havel died, it is worth mentioning to morons something just noted at Hotair: "As commenters noted in the Headlines thread, the Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded to Barack Obama, Al Gore, and Yasser Arafat — but not to Vaclav Havel, who brought down a tyranny without ever firing a bullet. This should shower everlasting shame on the Norwegian Nobel Committee." How nice for Obama and Gore, to be included on a list featuring Yasser Arafat. How entirely appropriate Havel is NOT on that sordid list of rejects.

3

Wow, I didn't even realize that about Havel...I would have assumed that he'd have made the trip to Stockholm.

Best movie about the Battle of the Bulge? 

4 67 years ago today, that outcome was in doubt. Posted by: Dave In Texas at 07:23 PM I don't know - the Germans might have made a temporary gain to put off the inevitable, but there was no way Germany could have staved off defeat in December of 1944. It was all over by December of 1943.

5 The war was over for Germany in 1941.

Hitler declaring war on us was the ultimate blunder.  He should had declared war on Japan instead.

6 Make that Oslo. 

7 Best movie about the Battle of the Bulge? Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 18, 2011 07:32 PM (Ec6wH) Well... Battle of the Bulge, from 1965?

8 That picture brings two words to mind, "Grafenwoehr" and " Brrrrrrr....". Some of you know what I mean.

9 Picture of the leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood: http://tinyurl.com/7tls2e3 WTF is that thing on his forehead? Has he gone Klingon??

10 The best Battle of the Bulge movie might be the couple of episodes of Band of Brothers that featured it.

11 Well... Battle of the Bulge, from 1965?

I vote for "The Big Red One" for overall just good movie.
It had a lot of Battle of the Bulge scenes.

12 I say we bomb Germany tonight just to fuck with them.

13 Lee Marvin as Sarge was awesome. An icon.

14 When will I learn not to bet on Chicago or the Jets?

15 oops, wrong thread.

16 Good post, and it's great to remember.  One thing: the Germans weren't under equipped.  With the exception of fuel - and I'll grant you that is a huge exception - the Germans were better equipped than the Americans.

The "Miracle of the West" is what they called it, and for good cause.  The Germans were very well armed, including a great many Sturmgewehr assault rifles.  Their squads had a huge number of MG-42's, with essentially unlimited ammunition.  Armor?  That's well known.  They not only outnumbered our armor, but their armor was of much better quality.

Even the Luftwaffe made one last hurrah and scrambled, literally, something like 400 planes on one day.

Relative to the amassed Allied might, the Germans were doomed from the start - but for the folks in the Bulge they certainly weren't facing an inferior enemy in terms of equipment.

Where the Germans were inferior was in the troops.  Once the initial shock was over, our troops fought brilliantly, and bravely, and selflessly.  The Germans sent some of their best divisions, very well armed, and we beat them.  You can argue that the German divisions weren't what they were in 1942, but then again neither were ours.  The Airborne divisions were largely replacements.  The 10th Armored and the infantry divisions weren't fresh.

And, even so, they fought the Nazi's to a standstill...

...and then pushed
them
back

God bless the US troops who endured that cold and that punishment, and prevailed.  God bless them, every one.

17 @14: Ouch!

18 'Battleground'.  1949. 

19 German industry,under Hitler's orders and Speer's direction had gone all out to equip their armies with munitions for Wacht am Rhien. The spearhead units for the most part were fully stocked, especially the S.S. units so to say they attacked "under equipped" is not quite accurate.

20

3

Best movie about the Battle of the Bulge?

My vote is for Battleground.  The movie is a little dated, now (it was made in 1949), but still has a pretty gritty realism.  What is noteworthy about a movie made so soon after the end of WWII was that it did not portray the American troops as super-heroes but men that were afraid of dying but doing their duty.

 

21 The story I recall was that of an Army Band outfit, they had just finished a song for some officers and a Lt. burst in and commanded them to put down the fucking clarinets and get some carbines, pronto. I am sure that was a bit of a shock as service musicians (though they go thru Basic training) were pretty sure they were going to go through the war without firing a shot. Most do.

22 Oops sorry  16

23

  US soldier David Hickman, 23 was killed by a roadside bomb that ripped through his armored truck Nov. 14 — eight years, seven months and 25 days after the U.S. invasion of Iraq began.

He was the 4,474th member of the US military to die in Iraq, according to the Pentagon.

And he may have been the last.

24 You read that right. Gingrich proposes to make the folks charged with reviewing acts of Congress more susceptible to congressional influence.

25 Band of Brothers had one segment about the Ardennes, IIRC.

What would Ike or Patton have thought about the SCOAMF as CIC, riding around on a bike wearing a plastic helmet, wearing mom jeans?  And who walked out of Iraq and didn't even stop to close the door behind?

War is hell, but so's prezidentin', when it cuts so much into golf and beach time.

26 What an absolute hell the GI's lived through. And never forget the Malmedy atrocity. G-d bless the memory of those who gave their lives and the veterans, still living, for their incredible bravery.

27

Ditto Battleground... 

 

and as far as dated... hell, the War is dated.

28 I grew up on B&W images and film footage. However, when you see this events in color, it makes it seem all the more real and not long ago. God Bless Our Soldiers~

29 Oh.

30

J.J, Sefton, your moniker is still one of my favorite characters from a film about that war.

 

Merry Christmas to you.

31 Here's a transcript of the PBS American Experience Doc on the Battle of the Bulge.
It doesn't appear that the film is available online without purchasing the DVD but the transcript is riveting none the less and worth bookmarking.
Having been a winter soldier during the Cold War, the story of The Ghost Front really hit home.
Most people are completely unaware of the casualties involved, and living in the snow is no joke, believe me.

32 "Battleground" is a great flick. Along w/great performances by Ricardo Montalban, James Whitmore, and Van Johnson (and his egg), here and there they use actual footage from the battle.

33

34 _{off/chocolate not so sharp sock}

35

I'm thinking the idiot Barry, our President, has not a single clue about any of this.

Not a whit.

Innit that something.

Guess vacations gotta come first before learnin' and stupid White sutff like that.

 

36 WTF is that thing on his forehead? Has he gone Klingon??

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 18, 2011 07:40 PM (niZvt)

Nah, he's just ugly, like his so-called religion.

37

27

... hell, the War is dated.

It's hard to believe that WWII ended over 65 years ago.  I was minding my own business in the college cafeteria a few months ago when a girl in a history class asked me to participate in a survey about WWII.  She was rather surprised that I got every question correct (full disclosure, I'm 50).

I grew up around WWII vets and my old man served under them.  His first destroyer C.O. had two ships sunk under him during the war.

38 Whatever. Our soldiers caused untold suffering in Germany in a war of choice that was based on lies. Hitler didn't attack us because he hated our freedoms, he hated our foreign policy. And the only country that actually benefitted from this war was the Soviet Union.

39

38

I hope this is just one of the 'rons or 'ettes wearing a dirty sock.

40 @39: I'm pretty sure it's someone mocking the Ronbots and Liberals.

41 The Battle of the Bulge was immoral based on the attempt by riot-prone Christian Germany to wipe out the indigenous allied troops which had been living peacefully in the region since the 15th century.

42 There was more justice awarded during and after that war than just what is published in famous books about the war.

My father served with the 740th Tank Battalion mostly in Belgium and Northern Germany.  His tank battalion was temporarily placed under Patton's command for the duration of the Battle of the Bulge.  Below is one of the stories my Dad told to me regarding his experiences during the battle.  He never would speak of these times until near the end of his life.  He died Oct 23rd, 2011.

The 740th had been fighting the Germans for several days in an area south of Bastogne and getting a lot of German 88mm shelling on their positions.  Near the end of the day, one shell scored a direct hit on one of the battalion's Sherman tanks killing everyone inside. 

One of the other tank crews was extremely upset since the crew that got killed were their very good friends.  Especially the tank commander and gunner.  They had gone through Tank training with the crew that was killed at Ft. Knox.

Later that night, the tank commander and gunner decided to do something about it.  It just so happened that the tank crew had encamped about 1000 yards to the West of the German lines.  The crew could see the Germans bedding down in slit trenches across an open field. 

They waited until about 1AM and began crawling and running across the open field.  About 2AM they were within 50 yards or so of the German line.  They noticed 2 Germans in a single slit trench.  They approached that trench slowly.  Apparently the Germans were extremely tired since they had been advancing for several days without sleep. 

Once they got close enough, the tank commander grabbed one of the Germans around the head with his hand over his mouth.  The tank gunner grabbed the guy's legs.  The commander then slit the German's throat with his k-bar and waited a few minutes for the German to bleed out.  The other German soldier never woke up, so the commander and gunner left.

They got back to American lines about 4AM.  About 5:30AM, they heard the most god-awful scream they had ever heard in their life from across the field.  The Germans never shelled their position again.

43

My Grandpa, who passed 6 years ago, told me some funny stories about his time in Austria. He was an Army Staff Sergeant.

He didn't like to talk about combat but he did like to talk about how they traded basic supplies for wine.

I think I talked a bit about winemaking last night, he's who I learned it from.

44 Well, more about beer making, you know.

45 My dad's oldest brother was wounded in the bulge by tree fragments in an artillery barrage. That hip is still his worst medical problem in his ninties.

46 1 The war was over for Germany in 1941. All that was being fought over was the western extent of Communism.

That was still worth fighting over. Post-Stalingrad it had become more worth fighting over.

I didn't post this on the Book Thread, since I hadn't been reading any moron-penned literature, but I've been reading John Flynn's book While You Slept. In short, after 1941, FDR told the intellectual community in the United States that the US was now at war with Eurasia [Hitler] and at peace with Eastasia [Stalin]. But the intellectuals went overboard.

Flynn is mostly concerned with the Korean War so he concentrates on Who Lost China. These brainiacs in our State Department turned in several books approving of, for instance, Mao and denigrating Chiang because of teh corruptionz. [Mao was apparently a pure soul.]

Much of this transfers over outside China, though. These guys took over the radio and put out several Hollywood movies gushing over Stalin's rural Russia (with village priests!). They also reviewed each others' books - so Edgar Snow would review Lattimore in the New York Times, and Lattimore would write a book for some other hack to review, probably in The New Republic. [p. 74]

Flynn does note in the Western Front that - on the theory that Stalin was a Russian nationalist and a true democrat (just like Mao!!1) - our advisors, like "Morgenthau" but really Harry Dexter White, were telling Eisenhower that he should flood the mines in Germany and basically destroy it forever. [p. 51]

So yeah: we were fighting to decide where the Iron Curtain should fall. But a faction in our own government was working to ensure that it should fall at the Rhine, or the English Channel and Pyrenees.

That faction sits in the Oval Office today.

47 CoolCzech - it is, literally, the mark left by banging his head into the floor praying year after year. I remember it being noted a few years ago on the #2 Al Quida guy.. Ayman al-Zawahiri, among others. A lot of the radical types have a mark just like that.

48 My dad's oldest brother was wounded in the bulge by tree fragments in an artillery barrage. That hip is still his worst medical problem in his ninties.

Posted by: Jean at December 18, 2011 08:23 PM (3FXA5)

A lot of those guys were some hardy lads. 

My Grandad was a Pacific vet (Iwo Jima) who lived a very unhealthy life, ate like hell, had Type II Diabeetus suffered a stroke at 74 and still somehow managed to make it to 88 before finally checking out.

49 I enjoy the hell out of Band of Brothers, but the Bastogne episode really affects me.  It's hard to watch...I know that blood and loss was part and parcel of every aspect and every operation of the war, but the desperation I see in the medic's face just tears me up. 

50 50 CoolCzech - it is, literally, the mark left by banging his head into the floor praying year after year. I remember it being noted a few years ago on the #2 Al Quida guy.. Ayman al-Zawahiri, among others. A lot of the radical types have a mark just like that. Posted by: Dave at December 18, 2011 08:28 PM (3f5JE) Unfreakingbelievable. And we have to pretend we "respect their culture."

51 If you have to drive long distances this holiday, I recommend "Ghost Soldiers". I had read it years ago, but it was the only interesting audio book at the library. Nothing motivates the kids to eat what ever grandma cooks like stories of bug eating, and monkey stew with little hands in it.

52 This thead is running out of steam. What does everyone want for Christmas? I'm willing to settle for Juliette Huddy sliding down my Festivus Pole as I air my grievances motorboard style...

53 If you have to drive long distances this holiday, I recommend "Ghost Soldiers".

Mrs928 picked up The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo on audio CD for our driving pleasure.

I hope it's good.  The last one was The Road.

54 I would like a new job for Christmas. I think an offer is forthcoming.

55 @57: Well, I wish you luck, Truck Monkey!

56

 The Road.

Did it make you want to purposely drive into a tree?

57 52 I enjoy the hell out of Band of Brothers, but the Bastogne episode really affects me.  It's hard to watch...I know that blood and loss was part and parcel of every aspect and every operation of the war, but the desperation I see in the medic's face just tears me up. 

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at December 18, 2011 08:29 PM (Ec6wH)

My favourite episode two.  The actor that plays Eugene "Doc" Roe really nailed the part.  In a just world he would be a superstar and Ashton Kutcher would be restocking shelves at WalMart.

58 Did it make you want to purposely drive into a tree?

Pretty much.  I'm just glad it wasn't Blood Meridian.

59 BTW, Blood Meridian has totally put me off of McCarthy.

60 I kept hoping that it would have so point to it and then, the end.

61

>>Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 18, 2011 08:38 PM (jucos)

_{Take a look at gun manufacturers, business is booming.}

62 All through the 1950's and 1960's I heard participants' conspiracy theories. On the north shoulder, the 2nd Division and one regiment of the 99th were able to pull out of an assault to prevent destruction of dams near the Hurtgen forest, and slide laterally south to stiffen the line at Elsenborn Ridge. There were newly-leveled roads right where they needed to move; the logistics had been gamed out in advance. Soldiers who had been there swore that these were signs that Allied command used the 99th and 106th as bait. They blamed Ike for pushing back on the pocket, as was done at Falaise, instead of cutting off the salient and capturing all of VI Panzerarmee, who we had to fight again across the Rhine.

Couple of often-overlooked details. The German barrage that began the assault (it was not a sneak attack) was the most intense since WWI, and the success of strategic bombing had made oil, petroleum and lubricants so scarce that my dad, southeast of Krinkelt near the seam where the 106th would have been, could hear the German tanks coming almost 20 miles away on the 16th. I call him early on the 16th every year and ask "What's that sound?" You never forget it.

There was only a handful of King Tigers on the entire front. They were so hard to kill that our guys got to seeing King Tigers in their sleep. Most German tanks there were the Mark IV, a medium tank, still better than the Sherman. But all tanks were a PITA there. They had to stay off the rural roads, which were dirt, frozen so hard that they would spin their treads or, worse, get going and not be able to steer or stop. Passing through towns in column, their differential track steering turned up the cobblestones in huge piles that would block the road. Deuces ruled, and the Wehrmacht was critically short of supply trucks. In their supply train, which was limited to the roads, were fuel waggons towed by school buses and horses.  

I know a lot of stories about those days. It was the largest battle in US history until Saddam had that one bad day. We should think of it more.

63 56 Mrs928 picked up [X]... on audio CD for our driving pleasure...  The last one was The Road.

I can't think of a book I'd less like to have read aloud to me on a long car journey.

As for The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo etc, I hear he was an ardent socialist and an opponent of the neo-Nazi menace in Europe. So in his book, Sweden is "where latent white supremacy found expression in all aspects of contemporary life, and anti­extremists lived in persistent fear of attack".

I consider it The Book With The Green Football Tattoo. I got other books to read first.

64 A bit of Shattnermania, to liven things up around here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvQwXOCKNLY Rock It, Man!

65 I consider it The Book With The Green Football Tattoo.

Oh great.

66 I have one more story - at the closing days of the war (see my post above), the 740th Battalion liberated a German forced-labor camp in northern Germany.  The German guards had already fled, but they left about ten thousand nearly-starved Polish forced-laborers.  These guys were mostly just skin and bone.  They had been forced to work in the German arms industries there in the Ruhr valley. 

The 740th's Colonel was ordered to build a camp to house and provide medical treatment and food for the Poles.  Most of the prisoners weighed less than 80 pounds. 

After about a month, the German women from the nearby towns started coming into the 740th's camp and complaining that the Poles were sneaking into town during the night and either killing or severely beating their husbands.  It turns out that the German guards had fled to the nearby towns where their families had always lived.

The 740th's Colonel told the German ladies to stick their complaints up their asses.  He told them he had much more important things to do than protect German war criminals. 

Again, there was much more justice that took place after the war than just what you read in books. 

Oh, and just to be clear, to this day I fu_king hate all Germans.   They can all DIAF as far as I'm concerned.  Mother Fu_kers tried to kill my Dad.  Fu_k 'em.

67 Nothing made me more livid than the minutes of my life I wasted reading No Country for Old Men

68 Damn, wrong smilie.

69 McCarthy is an acquired taste.  My wife loves him, I'm baffled by him.

70 What about The Horses Trilogy?

Stupid cons.

71 Catch this. A new job where I pick out the office space and hire the staff. I'll make approx. 35% more than I currently make now at a job that I hate with the heat of a thousand suns. I am so fired up. Timeline for starting is probably the first of April or the first of May.

72 Nothing is ever explained with McCarthy.  Everything just is.  You know there's a terrific backstory, but the author refuses to tell you what it is.

73 Hooray Truck Monkey!

74 I say Toby is as dumb as a box of rocks

75 74 Catch this. A new job where I pick out the office space and hire the staff. I'll make approx. 35% more than I currently make now at a job that I hate with the heat of a thousand suns. I am so fired up. Timeline for starting is probably the first of April or the first of May. Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 18, 2011 08:52 PM (jucos) Well, congrats! I hope everything works out for you that you want. Merry Christmas, indeed.

76 I might quit my current gig and take a few months off.

77 75 Nothing is ever explained with McCarthy.  Everything just is.  You know there's a terrific backstory, but the author refuses to tell you what it is.

Bam.

I had this exact problem with [the movie of] The Road. Seriously? There's no non-human life in North America? All the edible plants are dead?

78

So yeah: we were fighting to decide where the Iron Curtain should fall. But a faction in our own government was working to ensure that it should fall at the Rhine, or the English Channel and Pyrenees.

That faction sits in the Oval Office today.

This.

79

A new job where I pick out the office space and hire the staff.

That Peter Gibbons is just a straight shooter with upper managment written all over him.

80 #74  That is wonderful,  Truck Monkey.  I hope you get the offer soon and can go into the new year looking forward to that better job!

81

In essence, whatever his other flaws, McCarthy was fundamentally correct. The US Government was shot through with traitors, as is now clear from the VENONA decrypts and KGB files.

82 The best Bill Mauldin cartoon shows dirty, unshaven Willie and Joe in their rattletrap jeep festooned with junk, looking at a sign that says, "You are now entering the Third Army Zone of Operations," under which was a list of fines: "No shave, $5.00. Buttons missing from jacket, $5.00. Torn uniforms, $3.00. Tie undone, $10.00. Rifle not cleaned, $15.00," and so on. The bottom is signed "General George S. Patton."

Willie says to Joe, "Radio headquarters an' tell 'em we're gonna be late on account of havin' to take a 3000-mile detour."

83 79 I might quit my current gig and take a few months off. Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 18, 2011 08:55 PM (jucos) Well... don't screw your chicken until it haches, or sumthin' like that...

84 No Country for Old Men, aka Cons

85

On the islomo crazies, it is a prayer briuse, right in the center to top of the forehead. if you see one in real life, check your side arm.  No moderate there

 

On The Bulge, sucks not to have air superiority for us the first few day, for them the other days

 

 

86 I am so fired up. Timeline for starting is probably the first of April or the first of May.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 18, 2011 08:52 PM (jucos)

Fuck yeah!

Congrats, dude.

87 Thank you all. I reached a breaking point within the last couple of weeks and I took a recruiter up on an offer. Worked out better than I could have imagined.

88 Seriously? There's no non-human life in North America? All the edible plants are dead?

And the nature of the cataclysm is never revealed.  Eco disaster?  Tectonic?  War?  Election of a SCoaMF?  Apparently, it's not important to know.

89 I'll have the offer in writing in the next couple of weeks. I really hate my current gig. I have never worked with such apathetic stupid people in my whole life. It is really incredible.

90 #66

No, he was an outright Capital-C Communist.

He was somewhat notorious in SF fandom before these books became posthumous hits. They wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if he were alive to shoot his mouth off on chat shows.

91 OK, so much for the largest battle the US Army was ever in.

One last legend, in passing: the Brits developed a counter-measure to German radar, called "Window." Bales of aluminum foil strips were bown out of an airplane, and it drove the detectors "nuts." Nuts, get it?

In large areas around Bastogne and St Vith, the day the weather cleared resulted in a three-level assault by the Army Air Forces. P-47's were strafing and rocketing German tanks and supply lines, Skytrains were kicking out rations and ammo, and the Eighth left its contrails high above. Troops dug in in the Ardennes Forest awoke to dark evergreen trees coated with silvery tinsel. On Christmas.

That's not when Christmas tree tinsel was invented.  But for those who were in the Ardennes, it still has a special significance.

"Grant us fair weather for battle."

92 Oh, and just to be clear, to this day I fu_king hate all Germans.   They can all DIAF as far as I'm concerned.  Mother Fu_kers tried to kill my Dad.  Fu_k 'em.

All the Germans who tried to kill your dad are either dead or in their late eighties or early nineties. The Germans who join the Bundeswehr today do so under unbelievable societal pressure not to, and they're under political restrictions that make our own look like total freedom.

Take a moment to admire the skill of men who can fire from the hip and hit targets at 700 meters, and who are fighting on our side in Afghanistan. These Germans deserve your support, not hate, because they had nothing to do with World War II.

http://tinyurl.com/5sw2wvv

93

Where the Germans were inferior was in the troops. 

If you get a chance to visit the German cemetary about 4 miles from the American cemetary in Luxembourg, you will find some interesting tombstone stats.  First, the number of stones in each graveyard appears to be about equal but when you get nearer the German stones, you find four soldiers buried under each.  Many (many!) are marked "A Soldier Known But To God".  The birhtdates of the known dead indicate, by that time of the war, mainly very young (some I saw were only 14 years old) or very old (for soldiers; lots 45 years or older) casualties.  The Germans were done.  Some of my older German friends refer to their "Lost Generation"; the men of nominal military age during WWII.  One of my friends was about 14-and-a-half, home on leave after primary flight training (!) when he awoke to Patton's Third Army driving east up the bundestrasse (Landstuhl).  Buried all his gear in the garden and became a boy again.

94 I really hate my current gig. I have never worked with such apathetic stupid people in my whole life. It is really incredible.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at December 18, 2011 09:04 PM (jucos)

Good help is truly hard to come by!

95 Thanks everyone. Thanks a lot. I am pretty excited.

96

Posted by: Llarry at December 18, 2011 09:05 PM (5l2tw)

You have a funny way of pissing people off.

97 Nice to hear someone really get ahead like that, Truck Monkey.

98 Take a moment to admire the skill of men who can fire from the hip and hit targets at 700 meters, and who are fighting on our side in Afghanistan. These Germans deserve your support, not hate, because they had nothing to do with World War II.

http://tinyurl.com/5sw2wvv

Posted by: Llarry at December 18, 2011 09:05 PM (5l2tw)

--

Don't care.  There's always a few exceptions to the rule.  But any race of people that could take it upon themselves to kill 6 million Jews doesn't have a lot of good things going for it.  I fully realize it was their fathers and grandfathers that did the evil deed, but as the old saying goes, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. 

As I said, Fu_k 'em all. 

99 (New guy busting in on conversation) This is hilarious: The best Bill Mauldin cartoon shows dirty, unshaven Willie and Joe in their rattletrap jeep festooned with junk, looking at a sign that says, "You are now entering. . .

100 Zimriel at December 18, 2011 08:26 PM (6GvAC)

You must have been channeling my father.  I grew up (in the 1930's) on his tremendous hate for Joe Stalin, FDR , Baruch, et.al. and his disgust with all the media adulation for those creatures.  Lest you think he was just some no-nothing, I must tell you that he was career military (1916-1943) AND one of the most well-read individuals I have ever known.

101

A Time for Trumpets....   best book I've ever read on the bugle.   I know.. not a book thread... but..

Weren't there conspiracies from back in the day about warnings ignored and that the Allies allowed the bulge to happen, etc.?  kinda like all the Iraq war carping after the fact.

As far as dated goes, I'm almost 49 and grew up enamored with WWII.  I can't believe now, with my frame of reference of time, that I was born less than 20 years after the end of the war, and yet when I was a kid, it seemed like ancient times.  Wow.  I wish I'd known more vets to talk to back in the day , but like some of you have said, a lot of them were extremely reluctant to share their stories.

I salute them all. 

102 Cool, I hit the 101st post on a Bulge thread....   How cool is that?

103 I am AD Navy and have a great love of WWII too. Band of Brothers remains my favorite. . . .

104

Posted by: Ron Paul supporter at December 18, 2011 08:06 PM (XGZYX)

 

 

Boy this guy can suck a fart out of my butthole.

 

What the Paul-bots don't get is you will fight them now of later

105 A couple of years ago I was in Europe on business.  I had set it up so that I was there over a weekend so I could take in some sightseeing on the company's dime.

Long story short, I realized one of my childhood life goals when I stumbled upon the town of Remagen while driving up the Rhine.  Remagen was the first crossing of the Rhine where the Allies took a railroad bridge before the Germans could blow it.

The bridge is gone (fell into the river about two weeks after we took it) and the railroad tunnel is not easily accessible, but there is an excellent little museum in the bridge abutment structure on the west bank of the Rhine.  The stonework structures still stand on both sides of the river, little castles containing rooms and lookout stations and gun slits.  Very, very cool.

106 @BR: I would have loved to drive through that area. MWR (military recreation) has an amazing tour, but you have to be stationed in England, or so I hear. . .

107

Early in December of 1944, Third Army was beset by heavy rains that were turning the roads into a sea of impassible mud.  George Patton asked his Army Group Chaplain to write a "weather prayer", and it was printed on 3x5 cardstock, with a greeting from Patton to his troops for Christmas on the other side.  Patton believed in the power of prayer, and wanted all his men praying for good weather.  In between, the rain turned to snow, and the Germans attacked in the Ardennes.  The rest, as they say, is history.

Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies and establish Thy justice among men and nations.

108 That is a great prayer, CJ. . .Sort of like pre-football game. But with more meaning. . .

109 The German's only shelled one US sector prior to the advance, in others the commanders specifically ordered inflitration by infantry.

110 You have a funny way of pissing people off.

Yeah, challenging people on their unreasonable assumptions and blanket statements is very irritating to those making unreasonable assumptions and blanket statements.

I remember there was some lunatic here who said I as a socialist because I disputed the notion that the Mythbusters were 9/11 truthers. Funniest, stupidest thing I ever heard.

That guy was pissed as hell at me, too.

111 Reader C.J. Burch writes.... at December 18, 2011 10:19 PM (sJTmU)

My father claimed to be an agnostic, but he thought that Patton was the best general we had - fight to win, screw the (even then) politically correct twits.  Pray?  Yes.

112 The German's only shelled one US sector

Just dad's luck (and the 3 divisions he was in that sector with) to be under it. He also got hit by V2's, in Verviers, strafed by Me262's on the Rhine, and liberated a death camp. Hit all the high spots of the 20th cent.

I have been in the tunnel across from Remagen. It is brick-lined, and on a curve, with v.large iron doors at the ends. Very interesting acoustics for a concert. Not a happy place to be holed up with several railway tank cars of avgas when the Willie Peter started flying.

113 Llarry, speaking as a Jew, if I carried hatred and refused association with anybody whose ancestors ever tried to murder my ancestors, I'd have to move to some very remote place far from the Western world in which I've grown up.

No thanks. I've been to Germany. It's easier to find open Jew haters right here in Los Angeles.

114 Llarry, speaking as a Jew, if I carried hatred and refused association with anybody whose ancestors ever tried to murder my ancestors, I'd have to move to some very remote place far from the Western world in which I've grown up.

No thanks. I've been to Germany. It's easier to find open Jew haters right here in Los Angeles.

I'm a big fan of blaming only the people who committed the actual crimes. The Germans fighting in Afghanistan are as removed from Nazis as American southerners are from plantation owners.

And you're absolutely right about Jew haters in L.A. I spent 10 years as a music journalist, and I went to tons of parties by all sorts of big dogs in the music and movie industries. My best friend was a commercial photographer who invited me to even more big, fat, impressive, richie-rich parties.

What did all these compassionate leftists tell when they got good and drunk or high? Homo jokes, N-word jokes, and Jew jokes. It was 100 percent consistent.

Tell you one thing, though: The coolest person I ever met? Sarah Michelle Geller. Nice, funny, smart, and respectful of everyone. And guess what I just found out yesterday she is?

A Republican.

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116 The war was over for the Germans when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor instead of attacking Russia.  The Germans had advanced to to point that their forward patrols could see the Kremlin when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.  Once Stalin realized that Japan was not going to attack Russia, he moved his winter equipped divisions from Siberia back to Moscow.  He let the troops in place hold the Germans until enough troops from Siberia could mount a massive counter attack.

Japan had little reason to attack Russia because they were desperate to secure oil supplies. 

An uncle I never knew was in the 82nd airborne and did not survive the bulge.

117 To learn more knowledge in this area

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