October 03, 2011
— andy Operation Fast and Furious continues to simmer. Included in the weekend data dump, though, was something sure to heat it up.
New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.On May 3, 2011, Holder told a Judiciary Committee hearing, "I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks." (emphasis added)
Well, I mean that's an easy mistake to make. Ten months. A few weeks. What's the big diff?
I remain confident that this thing is going to break wide open and that some folks close to it will see some prison time. Personally, I'd just as soon send Holder to the Mexicans and let them put him up in the lavish accommodations that are the hallmark of their penal system.
Also on the F&F front, I should point out that Saturday's document dump post, while including that memorable PhotoShop of Michelle the gun mule, left out the one graphic that really explains this whole deal.
This chart, in the words of ATF agent Bill Newell, "reflect[s] the ultimate destination of firearms we intercepted and/or where the guns ended up."
It's fair to assume they didn't intercept the ones on the Mexican side of the border. So all those arrows show where they "ended up" ... most likely dropped at a crime scene.
What valid law enforcement purpose was behind this? I'm not as charitable as Ace on this - I think it's a full frontal assault on the second amendment.
Maybe the Mexicans can clear out a prison wing for the lot of these bozos.
More from Bob Owens.
Posted by: andy at
03:40 PM
| Comments (228)
Post contains 312 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: mugiwara at October 03, 2011 03:42 PM (KI/Ch)
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 03:43 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at October 03, 2011 03:43 PM (ehEyA)
Posted by: fluffy at October 03, 2011 03:45 PM (4pSIn)
Not too far off...
Posted by: mugiwara at October 03, 2011 03:46 PM (KI/Ch)
Posted by: robtr at October 03, 2011 03:46 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at October 03, 2011 03:47 PM (ehEyA)
Posted by: JPS at October 03, 2011 03:47 PM (VRR6p)
Posted by: LibertarianJim at October 03, 2011 03:47 PM (LG1dM)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 03:47 PM (h+qn8)
Never thought I'd see something like this in my lifetime from an American president and administration.
Posted by: Theresa D., TPT--SCOaMF is one and done! at October 03, 2011 03:48 PM (Zgfnd)
Holder lied. People died.
Posted by: alexthechick at October 03, 2011 03:49 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 03:49 PM (aYQHH)
Posted by: Beto Ochoa at October 03, 2011 03:50 PM (lpWVn)
why is the administration talking about getting rid of the atf, what good would that do for them at this juncture?
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 03:50 PM (h+qn8)
Holders office released a weak statement saying Holder didn't understand the question.
Isssa: when did you first learn about fast and furious
Holder: couple of weeks ago.
Posted by: robtr at October 03, 2011 03:50 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 03:51 PM (aYQHH)
I'm not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about
I think it was right here in this New Comment Thingy that lawyerese for "I am about to tell a lie" is "to the best of my recollection"
Human memory can be faulty, after all.
Posted by: fluffy at October 03, 2011 03:51 PM (4pSIn)
http://tinyurl.com/43f2g2t
Here's a snip~
The White House has so far refused to answer inquires from Senator John Cornyn about two other suspected gunwalking operations based out of the Houston and Dallas field operations areas. Additional gunwalking operations supplied drug gangs in Honduras from Florida, and supplied Chicago-area gangs from a gunwalking operation in Indiana.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 03:51 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: A Leak That Will Only Get Worse at October 03, 2011 03:51 PM (ehEyA)
Do the rest watch the competition or are they just full time useful idiots nowadays?
And is Andy Rooney's last gig for 60 Minutes a bigger story than this?
WTF?
Posted by: ontherocks at October 03, 2011 03:52 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: Beto Ochoa at October 03, 2011 07:50 PM (lpWVn)
If and when they indict Holder. He isn't going to take it in the ass for Obama. Not the way he rolls.
Posted by: robtr at October 03, 2011 03:52 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: rockmom at October 03, 2011 03:53 PM (lSyyU)
Posted by: palerider at October 03, 2011 03:53 PM (dkExz)
Posted by: theBman at October 03, 2011 03:54 PM (P3ebV)
It's fucking useless.
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 03:55 PM (AnTyA)
The blogs will continue to have to continue do the heavy-lifting.
Posted by: Arms Merchant at October 03, 2011 03:56 PM (kPT11)
Posted by: robtr at October 03, 2011 03:56 PM (MtwBb)
I am not a conspiracy person, but any explanation other than building a case for tougher gun laws in US just doesn't make any sense.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at October 03, 2011 03:56 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: palerider at October 03, 2011 03:56 PM (dkExz)
OK, well, they did try the very first part
Posted by: Frank G at October 03, 2011 03:57 PM (1rPxL)
Posted by: Some Guy With a Blue Face at October 03, 2011 03:57 PM (avT4H)
Holder lied, Mexicans died. Obama lied, Mexicans died.
Posted by: Flounder at September 29, 2011 02:59 PM (Kkt/i)
- - -
This was from the Anderson Cooper covers FF thread. The first is low hanging fruit. Next up?
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 03:57 PM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: Eric "the bag" Holder at October 03, 2011 03:57 PM (rmSzF)
Posted by: palerider at October 03, 2011 07:53 PM (dkExz)
Quit talking. Do something..or are you too much of a bitch?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 03:58 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (fyOgS)
Isn't stuff like this what RICO was designed for?
Posted by: Secundus at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (JEr/p)
22 Isssa: when did you first learn about fast and furious
Holder: couple of weeks ago.
Out of context. No, hyperbole. Uh, sarcasm?
Posted by: AG "Weak Chin" Holder at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (kPT11)
Oh yeah... because he's a politically-correct pandering Bush clone. I guess I answered my own question.
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (6GvAC)
Can it turn into a frontal assault on Chinless and his buddy, the SCOAMF? Maybe. We can hope.
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (4sQwu)
That the White House turned over that e-mail is a mystery of astronomic proportions. Of course those guns were recovered from crime scenes. Are Newell and O'Reilly headed for the underside of the bus?
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 03:59 PM (ymPoE)
Quit talking. Do something..or are you too much of a bitch?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 07:58 PM (AnTyA)
What is with you? WTF do you want palerider to do about it? I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't have subpoena powers.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 04:00 PM (X6akg)
This was from the Anderson Cooper covers FF thread. The first is low hanging fruit. Next up?
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 07:57 PM (Kkt/i)
How about the higher hanging stuff?? Pissed yet, fucker?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:00 PM (AnTyA)
"The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General. And tonight they tell CBS News, Holder misunderstood that question from the committee – he did know about Fast and Furious – just not the details."
Oh, Lord, here it comes.
Posted by: Booooooosh!!!!!1!1!!!eleventy!!!1!!! at October 03, 2011 04:00 PM (lHg4O)
Does impeachment have to come from the senate or could the house start proceedings but the senate could block action?
The House impeaches, the Senate holds the trial.
Posted by: somebody else, not me at October 03, 2011 04:00 PM (7EV/g)
Posted by: rockmom at October 03, 2011 04:00 PM (lSyyU)
I remain confident that this thing is going to break wide open and that some folks close to it will see some prison time.
Not if we don't report on it, Skippy. You must be new here.
Posted by: MSNBC at October 03, 2011 04:01 PM (8sCoq)
Even if Obama came out and said he ordered it because he hates the 2nd Amendment he would skate. Nothing can happen to the first black president. That would be racist. The best we can hope for is Holder gets it in the ass and the whole thing drags Obama down enough in the polls we are shed of him.
Posted by: Voluble at October 03, 2011 04:01 PM (JKX4x)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 04:01 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Miss80s at October 03, 2011 04:02 PM (d6QMz)
What is with you? WTF do you want palerider to do about it? I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't have subpoena powers.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 08:00 PM (X6akg)
Start raising hell..that's what I want. It's pretty fucking obvious, isn't it? You can cry about it on one blog...but how far does that go??
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:02 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Some Guy With a Blue Face at October 03, 2011 07:57 PM (avT4H)
when you die can I have all your stuff?
Posted by: Jones at October 03, 2011 04:02 PM (8sCoq)
why is the administration talking about getting rid of the atf, what good would that do for them at this juncture?
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 07:50 PM
Bob Owens's theory (he's been slugging hard at this story at Pajamas Media) is that the DoJ will claim they're shocked -- SHOCKED -- to find that gunwalking is going on here! and they're disbanding the ATF to show that they're "cleaning out the entire establishment," turning it up-side down and shaking it out, etc.
Probability in that white paper is that the ATF will be absorbed by the DEA and FBI. Everyone reassigned and keeping their jobs to keep them quiet.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:03 PM (ymPoE)
Or catch the 2nd of 3 parts of Prohibition.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:03 PM (piMMO)
Do you have a newsletter perchance?
but I suppose that would set a bad precedent
Nah. I'd say it sets a very good precedent. It says that if someone in our government breaks foreign law for his personal or political advantage, he's on his own; just like if I took a plane to Saudi Arabia and stole the king's favourite camel.
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 04:03 PM (6GvAC)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 04:04 PM (aYQHH)
I believe in legal circles that is referred to as "motive".
Posted by: The Sock of Andrew Breitbart at October 03, 2011 04:04 PM (7WMGf)
How about the higher hanging
stuff?? Pissed yet, fucker?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:00 PM (AnTyA)
---
Take your meds.
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 04:05 PM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 04:05 PM (aYQHH)
Posted by: some Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 04:05 PM (6GvAC)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 03, 2011 04:06 PM (7Ahkq)
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 08:03 PM (ymPoE)
thank you , arhooley.
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:06 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 04:06 PM (fyOgS)
You are an ass.
Posted by: mama winger at October 03, 2011 08:04 PM (R9bQ9)
Go ahead.Use that anger..or else STFU.
What are you going to do"
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:06 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at October 03, 2011 04:06 PM (jx2j9)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:07 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Secundus at October 03, 2011 04:07 PM (JEr/p)
Your a very unpleasant fellow
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 08:05 PM (aYQHH)
Fuck you. Pissed off yet?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:07 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:07 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 04:08 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Eric Holder at October 03, 2011 04:08 PM (xy9wk)
From his confirmation hearing to the Black Panther thingy to the DOMA non-defense, this lying shitweasel has done nothing but lie and obfuscate.
And everyone with a couple of operating brain cells knows he talked to the boss about them all to get directions.
Posted by: GnuBreed at October 03, 2011 04:08 PM (ENKCw)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 04:08 PM (aYQHH)
Take your meds.
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 08:05 PM (Kkt/i)
I think you're a whiny little bitch.
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:09 PM (AnTyA)
Work towards the goal with intelligence, perserverance, wisdom, good humor and a modicum of dignity.
Posted by: mama winger at October 03, 2011 04:09 PM (R9bQ9)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at October 03, 2011 04:09 PM (7Ahkq)
Nothing can happen to the first black president.
The Mexicans might disagree. That bastard Bill Newell was about to be transferred to a field office in Mexico and then suddenly was sent to D.C. instead; word is, they were afraid he'd be picked up by the Federales.
We'll see what happens come January 2013. If Palin or Cain is in office, I bet we'll see prosecutions at high levels. It's the only way we'll be able to make this up to the Mexicans, who would probably threaten to send bounty hunters onto American territory if we don't aggressively investigate and prosecute. This administration has treated our Mexican ally like bacteria-infested shit, and the next administration will have to work to keep their cooperation on terror and the like.
If it's Romney or Perry, there will be no prosecutions because it's not nice and it's not tolerant and it's not bridge-building -- so they'll revive the federal DREAM Act instead.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:09 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: Ken Burns at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (cEkpm)
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:05 PM (AnTyA)
Uh...no.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (X6akg)
we see what little value they place on life to get what they want.
i almost want to demonstrate over this (i've never demonstrated before, but srsly this is disgusting from our officials.
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:05 PM (AnTyA)
Why don't you take your own advice and go outside and kick a passing rottweiler.
You are a fucking disgrace tonight. What the fuck is wrong with you for chrissakes?
Posted by: ontherocks at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: chemjeff at October 03, 2011 04:10 PM (s7mIC)
__________
"Probably" = plausible deniability
Posted by: Eric Holder at October 03, 2011 04:11 PM (FzhYM)
Posted by: USS Diversity at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (aD5Kx)
Posted by: ATaLien at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (2p0vz)
I think you're a whiny little
bitch.
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:09 PM (AnTyA)
- - -
Good thing thoughts of trolls factor so highly in my self-concept. What a pitiful joke. You kiss your mom with that puss?
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: Chef Fuckface at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (STTZD)
Posted by: USS Diversity at October 03, 2011 08:12 PM (aD5Kx)
And ace is away.....
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:12 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (mGnwL)
Work towards the goal with intelligence, perserverance, wisdom, good humor and a modicum of dignity.
Fuck that. Dignity is for RINOs
Posted by: fluffy at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (4pSIn)
Eric Holder? Never heard of him. SCOAMF's attorney/umbrella holder yes, but "Eric Holder" no.
Posted by: Bumpkin at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (W2qJe)
I know how ace says that this isn't some movie where guys are doing evil for evil's sake, but I mean come on. This is evil period, and there is no way around it. The US government allowed weapons to get into hands of Drug Cartels who used them to murder people. Its just a question of what type of evil it is.
At the worst case, this is exactly the goal. The government allowed guns to fall into the hands of the mexican cartels to be used in murders in order to...what? Use it as a justification for stricter control on guns in the US? That is truly evil. And it may not be the truth since I do consider it the worst case scenario, but what's the best case?
Best case scenario is that F&F was to be used to track and follow the guns for some other goal. But its apparent that they weren't really following the guns to their end point so they failed at their goal through incompetence, and the guns were used in murders. This is still an evil. Its an evil through incompetence. But that's the best case and its still evil, even if it was unintentional.
Posted by: buzzion at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: arhooley
Which opens up the only 'alternative' conspiracy; that this was part of an FBI plan to trip up the ATF, giving the FBI more power and a bigger portfolio.
Even then, it still doesn't account for the Admin's claims regarding guns going south or their 'secret gun plans.'
Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (kt1UQ)
Work towards the goal with intelligence, perserverance, wisdom, good humor and a modicum of dignity.
Posted by: mama winger at October 03, 2011 08:09 PM (R9bQ9)
..and where has that gotten us? Pissed yet??
U happy with the choices we have?? Mittens your guy? You complacent?
Seriously..STFU
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:13 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: Kicked out of PeTA at October 03, 2011 04:14 PM (1juCp)
Posted by: chemjeff at October 03, 2011 08:10 PM (s7mIC)
We can take care of that for you.
Posted by: Kramer & Newman at October 03, 2011 04:15 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at October 03, 2011 04:15 PM (eOXTH)
Now, there are a very few I'd like to see get banned of AoSHQ island, not gonna name any names, but he wasn't one of 'em.
Posted by: Theresa D., TPT--SCOaMF is one and done! at October 03, 2011 04:15 PM (Zgfnd)
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 08:12 PM (Kkt/i
Fuck you. Are you complacent? I'm not so SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP
...have your attention yet, asshole?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:16 PM (AnTyA)
That makes 3 things not on my viewing list tonight.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:16 PM (piMMO)
U happy with the choices we have?? - No
Mittens your guy? - No
You complacent? - You don't know me very well do you?
Posted by: mama winger at October 03, 2011 04:17 PM (R9bQ9)
Posted by: chemjeff at October 03, 2011 08:10 PM (s7mIC)
I'll be over in a few.
(need to take out some frustration after yesterday)
Posted by: Mike Vick at October 03, 2011 04:17 PM (lHg4O)
The House impeaches, the Senate holds the trial.
Posted by: somebody else, not me at October 03, 2011 08:00 PMHow does that work? Is it like the House is the D.A. that brings the indictment and the Senate is the Court where it's tried?
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:18 PM (ymPoE)
You're much more a lady than I. I would have linked a fleshlight.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:18 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: The Sock of Andrew Breitbart at October 03, 2011 04:18 PM (7WMGf)
Seriously..STFU
You have now told, at one point or another, half the people on this blog to shut up. Perhaps you should take your own advice.
Go sleep it off.
Posted by: Delta Smelt at October 03, 2011 04:18 PM (6f1k1)
Destabilize a friendly neighbor country? Can't send the undocumented back to a hellhole like that can we? Makes as much sense as any other explanation.
Posted by: Heorot at October 03, 2011 04:19 PM (xN56r)
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 04:20 PM (6GvAC)
...have your attention yet, asshole?
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:16 PM (AnTyA)
- - -
First, you don't know thing one about what I have or have not done that gives you the moral authority to be attacking anyone generally and me specifically. Second, it appears that this is uncharacteristic for you, so I'll stop provoking you. But you really need to get a grip.
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 04:20 PM (Kkt/i)
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 07:50 PM
Also, I am sure that in any sort of a major reorganization a great many documents will naturally be lost. No one's fault, you understand. That sort of thing happens all the time. Nothing to see, move on...
/sarcasm
Posted by: Popcorn at October 03, 2011 04:21 PM (OOehk)
Posted by: Dave in Texas at October 03, 2011 08:15 PM (PjVdx)
Are you going to claim to claim you'll have me banned again, asshole??
Seriously, fuck you. The time is way passed for complacency. If you want Ace to ban me..pass this shit along.
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:21 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: AndrewsDad at October 03, 2011 04:21 PM (C2//T)
...have your attention yet, asshole?
Your particular brand of whiny instigation seems familiar. You're that guy who stands at the party, sloppy drunk and poking the big guy in the chest, and then calls the cops when he knocks you on your ass.
You are all fucking mouth.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:22 PM (piMMO)
The House impeaches, the Senate holds the trial.
Posted by: somebody else, not me at October 03, 2011 08:00 PMHow does that work? Is it like the House is the D.A. that brings the indictment and the Senate is the Court where it's tried?
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 08:18 PM (ymPoE)
Pretty much. You could also think of the House sort of being the Grand Jury, and the Senate being the Trial Jury.
Posted by: buzzion at October 03, 2011 04:22 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Eric Holder at October 03, 2011 04:22 PM (KI/Ch)
"reflect the ultimate destination of firearms we intercepted and/or where the guns ended up."
What is that, like 'saved or created'?
Intercepted and/or not intercepted, mostly all not intercepted (.... or intercepted).
Well let's look at this way - if this chart shows 'the ultimate destination' where these intercepted firearms are going, that would make the chart bullshit, right? Cuz how the hell do you know where they'd go? Either you made up a chart with whatever you wanted, basically speculation, or the chart is of the weapons NOT intercepted, no 'and/or' about it.
How would you even try to predict where the guns would have gone, specifically in Mexico, anyway? You can't test a hypothetical. I mean unless you do a scientific test and just ignore a bunch of guns you otherwise would have interdicted just to study and document the effect it would have.
Posted by: Entropy at October 03, 2011 04:22 PM (dn7cw)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at October 03, 2011 04:24 PM (X5PxL)
Posted by: Autodidacdick at October 03, 2011 04:24 PM (qRgrb)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 04:24 PM (aYQHH)
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 08:20 PM (6GvAC)
Apparently not enough. I just had a friend call me and say he has to shut his business because of costsand cannot bear to tell his family. I'm very fucking concerned..AND I AM FUCKING PISSED
ARE YOU. MOTHERFUCKERS?? ..or is this a brave blog thing??
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:25 PM (AnTyA)
The time is way passed for complacency.
You keep saying that, and assuring all of us that you aren't complacent, and demanding to know what we're going to do. Since you've got it all figured out, why don't you let us know what you're going to do, so we can all follow in your calm, collected footsteps?
Seriously, fuck you.
What is this, the high school cafeteria? What's next, "My dad can beat up your dad!"
Posted by: Secundus at October 03, 2011 04:25 PM (JEr/p)
Other theories include:
Escalate violence to the point that more tens of thousands of Mexicans would be driven northward, where they would strain state and local welfare to the bursting point and become Democrat voters, with the "American-supplied guns" being an extra brownie point.
Border violence AND internal violence (see the Indiana scheme) to precipitate martial law.
Crazy I know, but wtf else? Especially when field agents were screaming that law enforcement agents and civilians were going to be killed on both sides of the border.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:26 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: chemjeff at October 03, 2011 08:10 PM (s7mIC)
I'll be over in a few.
(need to take out some frustration after yesterday)
Posted by: Mike Vick at October 03, 2011 08:17 PM (lHg4O)
Nah Mike, I got this. Chemjeff, just show me the dog and I promise I will shoot the next dog closest to it.
Posted by: Tony Romo at October 03, 2011 04:26 PM (ulPNQ)
Go find or found a political action group, every state has them. Start your own blog.
And for the sake of my last nerve, step away from the computer tonight. Christ.
Posted by: Autodidacdick at October 03, 2011 08:24 PM (qRgrb)
Pissed enough Motherfucker. I'm not. I've been trying for a long time to wake fuckers up.
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 04:27 PM (AnTyA)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 04:27 PM (fyOgS)
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 04:27 PM (6GvAC)
ARE YOU. MOTHERFUCKERS?? ..or is this a brave blog thing??
Frothing rage displayed in blog format is now "brave"
Got it.
See in the old days, that was calling "impotence." But in the new beedubya world mouthing off about shit on a blog is equivalent to actually doing something about it.
You really are challenged by irony beedubya. Seriously
Posted by: Sean Bannion at October 03, 2011 04:28 PM (X5PxL)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 03, 2011 04:28 PM (aYQHH)
Pissed enough Motherfucker. I'm not. I've been trying for a long time to wake fuckers up.
And don't PUNCH DOWN!!!
Posted by: Bumpkin at October 03, 2011 04:28 PM (W2qJe)
Which explains your anger and your passion. What it does not do, however; is justify your attacks here tonight. For your sake and the sake of a friend you obviously care for a great deal, take it down a notch.
He will need a strong, and stable, friend upon whom he can rely.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:29 PM (piMMO)
Make sure to ask ... on other blogs, of the MBM, of your congressman, of everyone you can ... just how much additional control the Federal government has acquired over the various state LEAs since , say, June 2009.
There are many claims that the major purpose of F&F/Gunwalker was to undermine the 2nd Amendment ... I buy that ... but ...
There are occasional stories, very recent ones, about Federal interference in state law enforcement in CA-AZ-NM-TX (e.g., ATF going door-to-door in Houston, asking about gun ownership) ... and de facto Federal control, certainly given JEF, Holder, Napoletano and company, due to, say, the instability of the national border, presents an opportunity to absorb state agencies into Federal ones, or at least the chain-of-command, and then implement needed, necessary measures ... like the TSA at airports.
Assuming Federal control over the border region, not the 10-30 mile strip, but perhaps as far as LA-Phoenix-Santa Fe-Dallas-Houston (that area contains the problem ... no, there have been similar sales in the Chicago area ...), is a serious matter, particularly when it can be traced to a Federal action.
A precedent will be set, and it will be a bad one.
Posted by: Arbalest at October 03, 2011 04:29 PM (4TKX/)
Great. Next election I could use a guy like you. Because in 2008 I had to stand up all alone to the big brawny Chicago Thugs they bussed into my polling station, who sat there and intimidated folks for hours. Along with the Acorn Lawyers.
I could have used your mouth and your brawn, since I'm an old woman and stand about 5 foot 2. Email me your number so I can call on you in 2012. Contact link is at my name.
Or are you too complacent?
Posted by: mama winger at October 03, 2011 04:32 PM (R9bQ9)
Posted by: Entropy at October 03, 2011 08:22 PM
I read it as sites where guns were picked up, which MUST have been crime scenes. I see no other explanation -- and yet that opens up another mystery, which is why the White House "walked" that memo.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:32 PM (ymPoE)
I miss the U*Gs spam now.
Posted by: As If! at October 03, 2011 04:32 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:27 PM (AnTyA)
damn man, you have been around here along time. now might be a good time to chill out.
Posted by: Racefan at October 03, 2011 04:32 PM (WdRh1)
Start raising hell..that's what I want. It's pretty fucking obvious, isn't it? You can cry about it on one blog...but how far does that go??
Posted by: beedubya at October 03, 2011 08:02 PM (AnTyA)
How many times have you contacted your Congressman about it you mouthy tool?
How many friends and family who don't read blogs have you tipped off about this?
How about you go hit the tip jar for someone who has dedicated more than half his waking hours since DECEMBER 2010 pushing this story along: http://tinyurl.com/daocl5
Posted by: Scott J at October 03, 2011 04:33 PM (Ip8Ph)
I wonder if F&F was what the Washington Insider was talking about several months ago.
Posted by: Arms Merchant at October 03, 2011 08:31 PM
White House Insider is as vague and full of Momentous Portent as your local neighborhood psychic. Anything that happens fits his predictions.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 04:35 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: Scott J at October 03, 2011 04:37 PM (Ip8Ph)
Fragging your own team won't help you feel better. We are the ones who will be in the foxhole with you when the SHTF.
Dudes, please. Think of what Andrew Breitbart will think.
Posted by: sifty at October 03, 2011 04:40 PM (4CSeG)
beedubya, if you want back in, you can email ace. Or don't. Not my problem anymore.
FWIW, yelling "fuck you!" probably won't be persuasive.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at October 03, 2011 04:42 PM (PjVdx)
Posted by: Arms Merchant at October 03, 2011 08:31 PM (kPT11)
That story mentions making it just a Chicago thing? I have long thought that Rahm's departure was abrupt and untimely. I wonder if this leads to him or if he is intended to be the fall guy in some respects. He was given to fits of rage around the White House about the time this thing was gaining momentum.
Posted by: Flounder at October 03, 2011 04:43 PM (Kkt/i)
Reuters) - Governors along the U.S.-Mexico border agreed on Thursday to examine how to create shared databases where they can swap DNA and other biometric information on criminals in an effort to curb the flow of guns and drugs between the two countries.
Officials announced the agreement at the end of an annual conference of regional leaders from both sides of the border that this year failed to attract many chief executives.
New Mexico's Republican governor Susana Martinez was the only U.S. governor in attendance along with three governors, out of the six invited, from the Mexican side. The Texas governor, Republican Presidential hopeful Rick Perry, was not present and his state did not sign the final agreement.
Drug violence has exploded along the border in recent years as the Mexican government, with U.S. support, takes on powerful cartels smuggling narcotics, illegal immigrants and weapons across the nearly 2,000-mile line.
"The hope is that every convicted criminal (deported from the United States) will return with biometric information that follows him back into Mexico," said Jose Osuna, governor of Baja California. The data could then be used by Mexican authorities to fight crime, he said.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon says voracious U.S. drug consumers are partly to blame for the spiraling violence, which has killed more than 42,000 people in Mexico during the five years of his term.
He also points to a river of U.S. guns flowing south across the border, including high-powered assault weapons that fuel escalating drug battles.
The U.S. government is still dealing with a scandal around a controversial operation at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), known as "Fast and Furious," that allowed weapons to move freely over the border.
Governors at the meeting urged U.S. officials to better track weapon sales and showed their support for U.S. President Barack Obama's latest efforts to curb the weapons trade.
The nearly three-decade-old conference was designed to soothe tensions along the busy dividing line.
ENSENADA, Mexico |
Posted by: willow at October 03, 2011 04:43 PM (h+qn8)
Posted by: palerider at October 03, 2011 04:43 PM (dkExz)
Wow, too bad the MSM will only give it little nods and the stupids will miss the whole thing.
Posted by: dagny at October 03, 2011 04:52 PM (GhYvS)
Posted by: deebubya at October 03, 2011 05:00 PM (P5w8P)
Posted by: rabidfox at October 03, 2011 05:00 PM (5Gmd3)
Is there anything equivalent in the US? I didn't do civics in school not being, as it were, a US citizen. But can you people put Holder in the slammer for basically being a lying, perjurious sack of shit?
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 05:00 PM (FdBA0)
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 09:00 PM (FdBA0)
They usually get their own show on CNN or MSNBC.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 05:01 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Ken at October 03, 2011 05:02 PM (7yb9x)
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 09:00 PM (FdBA0)
Lying under oath to Congress is a crime. Since Holder is an appointed and Senate approved public official, it would probably not go the normal law enforcement route, but have to be handled by impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate (which requires a super majority vote). I'm not sure, though, maybe he could be tried in a normal court. The retired baseball player Mark McGuire was facing trial for lying under oath to Congress.
Posted by: somebody else, not me at October 03, 2011 05:11 PM (7EV/g)
Posted by: DailyDish at October 03, 2011 05:12 PM (WfrPx)
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 09:00 PM
It's a federal crime to lie to Congress. One of the lawbees here can confirm whether this is the relevant section:
http://tinyurl.com/6g3mku6
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 05:12 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at October 03, 2011 05:14 PM (6GvAC)
Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2011 09:17 PM (fyOgS)
Don't I know it.
Posted by: Bill Clinton at October 03, 2011 05:18 PM (GULKT)
Is there anything equivalent in the US?
not really - we actually expect them to lie in Congress
there is perjury, but like all crimes committed by the ruling class, getting the law enforced is, shall we say, hit and miss
Posted by: chemjeff at October 03, 2011 05:18 PM (s7mIC)
Posted by: tcn at October 03, 2011 05:19 PM (hQX3k)
Weaselly enough to avoid a perjury conviction, unless something shows up that places him in an operational control position.
Posted by: toby928© at October 03, 2011 05:19 PM (IfkGz)
Posted by: Buck O. Phive at October 03, 2011 05:20 PM (R2ShP)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:20 PM (bxiXv)
Depends on what the meaning of "is" is.
Posted by: DaveA (there IS room for two WJC jokes) at October 03, 2011 05:25 PM (jWTOk)
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 05:27 PM (FdBA0)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:27 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: David Gillies at October 03, 2011 09:00 PM (FdBA0)
Outlawing lying would be a virtual death sentence for marxism.
...and we all know how they feel about the death sentence.
Posted by: ontherocks at October 03, 2011 05:30 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:31 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Peaches at October 03, 2011 05:31 PM (/ybwc)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:33 PM (bxiXv)
Wait....what?!
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 05:35 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:37 PM (bxiXv)
Also, yet another request for a Facebook Like button here on Ace.
This is the kind of story I could share on Facebook and my lefty friends and family might actually read.
Posted by: Clubber Lang at October 03, 2011 05:37 PM (QcFbt)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:43 PM (bxiXv)
There may be some other way to do it when the DOJ head is under investigation, but like I said they didn't do that in the 90s.
I'm not a Federal Law expert, but it's been quoted as one reason (among many) why Issa has stated the need for a special prosecutor but not actually started that process.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 09:43 PM (bxiXv)
We're screwed....screwed.
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 05:44 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Autodidacdick at October 03, 2011 05:45 PM (4QDy9)
Wait....what?!
Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2011 09:35 PM (X6akg)
I think "DOJ" in this case means a panel of judges on some appellate court. Holder's office doesn't appoint the prosecutor. Lemme go research a bit . . .
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 05:48 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:48 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Regretful Commenting at October 03, 2011 05:49 PM (bxiXv)
Yeah, I think it's a three-member panel of judges from the U.S. Court of Appeals. But I'm not sure. Gonna keep researching. Where are our resident lawbees? Drag those slackers out of the ONT and make them provide some free advice STAT.
Posted by: arhooley at October 03, 2011 05:51 PM (ymPoE)
Posted by: museisluse at October 03, 2011 05:51 PM (4Lj43)
Aren't the tranzi's big on international law, duty to protect, etc. I'm 1/2 up for the ship EH to Mexico plan. They still use walls down there right?
Posted by: DaveA at October 03, 2011 05:54 PM (jWTOk)
Posted by: Scott J at October 03, 2011 06:01 PM (Ip8Ph)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Showing Up and Then Leaving at October 03, 2011 06:05 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of Showing Up and Then Leaving at October 03, 2011 06:07 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Schwalbe at October 03, 2011 06:31 PM (IxGUR)
Posted by: LiveFreeOrDie at October 03, 2011 06:33 PM (AK+86)
Posted by: small town girl at October 03, 2011 06:34 PM (RMBdU)
Posted by: Dick_Nixon at October 03, 2011 06:49 PM (HidVv)
Posted by: AmishDude at October 03, 2011 06:50 PM (73tyQ)
Posted by: yakima o' canutt, in below the sexy shoes at October 03, 2011 07:00 PM (VJzjC)
This seems like a very stupid mistake for the guy who is the top lawyer in our country to make.
Why would he commit to any time line?
Way to go Issa. Keep up the good work.
Posted by: petunia at October 03, 2011 08:01 PM (hgrmi)
Prosecute the corrupt son of a bitch and lock him up for the rest of his miserable life.
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 03, 2011 09:47 PM (dr4y0)
Posted by: Matt at October 04, 2011 01:55 AM (vJUsG)
229, point of order. Vicki Weaver was shot by a sniper on FBI's Hostage Rescue Team. IIRC they ran the final assault at Waco too.
ATF starts the messes and then the FBI comes in to cover their asses by eliminating the witnesses.
Posted by: Scott J at October 04, 2011 02:23 AM (Ip8Ph)
If we search really hard for the next two years perhaps we can uncover who that person is. Right now we suspect Pierre, the French Pastry Chef in the White House Kitchen, but that could change.
Posted by: RINO of the Weak at October 04, 2011 09:24 AM (ylhEn)
Will Holder be this administration's Ollie North? Doubtful.
The meme is there....
Posted by: Tonic Dog at October 04, 2011 10:51 AM (X/+QT)
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Posted by: mugiwara at October 03, 2011 03:41 PM (KI/Ch)