1 At least welfare cat looks better-groomed than the hobo cats, I guess.

2 In related news, Ireland is beginning the process of notifying bondholders that they need to grease up and bend over.

3 Wow, this thread is already pretty dead. Is everyone engaged in a battle royal over in Gabe's nomination post?

4 Something is going to break over there. Tyranny will be imposed, and I suspect people are going to end up dying. Let a Democracy occur, and neer do well's will continuously vote for other people to keep them satiated.

5 Since Flemming vs. Nestor established that Social Security is a simple tax, not an entitlement, the ruling makes sense.

6 how does welfare cat afford cable tv? snacks and beer? oh never mind.......

7 And the judge is a W appointee.  Can't even blame Clinton.

8 Welfare cat better make some more room on that couch for the rest of us.

9 I would favour "Ye olde ultra violence".

10

Does Greece really count as an industrialized nation?

 

11 One (big) reason why the UK is one of the linchpins of the Loyal Order of the Terminally Boned (LOTB): about 20-25% of the population works in the public sector. In Scotland, the figure is closer to 30% of the working population.

12 Mark Steyn's dispatch from London as to what he observed during the English riots:

The Human Right to Suspend Reality

In a democracy, there are not many easy ways back from insane levels of “social” spending, and certainly not when the leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition panders to the mob by comparing them to anti-apartheid activists. Judging from the many marchers partial to robotic, pseudo-ethnic West African drumming, the British left’s plan is presumably for the entire country to relaunch itself as the world’s least rhythmic percussion ensemble.

13

brobdingnagian

 

yes...brobdingnagian indeed...

14 7 And the judge is a W appointee.  Can't even blame Clinton.

Posted by: Hedgehog at March 28, 2011 09:25 AM (Rn2kl)

I have long argued that FDR and Harry Truman so badly bent the legal system that there is an inherent leftist bias in the entire institution. Even Republican appointees exude the poison of leftism. 

20 years worth of Judicial appointments is responsible for redefining "normal" in our legal system.

15 One (big) reason why the UK is one of the linchpins of the Loyal Order of the Terminally Boned (LOTB): about 20-25% of the population works in the public sector. In Scotland, the figure is closer to 30% of the working population.
Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 09:27 AM (4Pleu)


Ahhhhhhhhhh.  Nothing like a hot cup of freshly-brewed DOOM on a Monday morning.

Now, I can face the day!

16 How long, do you think, will it take for people to realize that the statement "You have no Right to what someone else must produce" is as true as Newton's 2nd law?

17 Welfare cat drinks Three Stooges Beer and Hienekin?

18 Oh, and about Germany? Get ready for the Greens, baby! However lamentable the Christian Democrats were, they are nowhere near as moonbatty as the Greens.

19 In related news, Ireland is beginning the process of notifying bondholders that they need to grease up and bend over. Yeah, but look at the yield - it's skyrocketing! Now is the time to go long on unsecured bonds - we'll make it up in volume, baby!

20 Lets see you try to pronounce that after 3 beers for breakfast!

21

Unfortunately, that's a very simplistic take on the problem:  welfare has allowed the government to tax people into oblivion (and let's be honest, it has allowed a lot of businesses to play a bit dirty with workers -- around here I saw a lot of people laid off, only to be replaced with temp service employees paid far less with no benefits, which the companies then proceeded to work into the ground and then let go before the standard amount of time was up; that was bullshit, probably not really even all that legal, although I don't know labor contract law, and yet they did it)...and not just the wealthy; higher taxes have caused people to seek welfare who wouldn't ordinarily be on it...the lower middle class, hell, now even some of the lower-mid, middle class.  Instead of the working poor being allowed to socially advance, their mates in the next couple of social tiers above them have been brought low...and there is no hopes for advancement, just the crutch of welfare (which honestly, by that point, they are going to take -- what else are they supposed to do?  Starve and go homeless?  do a modern day version of the Okies?  which could still happen, and I don't think we'd like to see the attendant social disruption).

It just isn't as simple as: fat, lazy welfare slobs sitting around doing nothing, and it's dangerous to think that way too...because eventually it only excoriates the problem.  Plus it makes too many people comfortable with rather....harsh and extreme measures...don't any of you think you aren't capable of getting behind those; it's a human weakeness.  That doesn't however, mean you should.

This is the group I was speaking of in regards to the housing/mortgage issue: they buy homes because renting is more expensive...then they lose their jobs or hours are cut, price of living goes up, and they are demolished.  This however, is oftentimes not through any fault of theirs (many did live within their means, many still are working or trying to work), but now they are being hemmed in from both sides -- the Dems have thrown them to the wolves in return for the support of the lowest rungs of society (all the while holding out their false hope: "we'll take care of you with welfare") and now it appears as though the Repubs will also throw them to the wolves (all the while holding out their false hopes: "we'll take care of you through work") .  Yeah, right...they'll "take care of them" for sure.

So far, they have been the most quiet, patient group...for how long though?

22 Hmmm. I just submitted a comment and it went off into some black hole in cyberspace. That's like the third time in a week. Not that anything I have to say holds particular gravitas, but strange nonetheless.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 28, 2011 09:42 AM (vbh31)

Were you making disparaging comments about Ewoks?  There's a filter for that.

23 Who dropped the soap?

24 It's been a long time since I've seen "brobdingnagian" used in a sentence, let alone used correctly!  I salute you, sir.

25 It's really just a matter of time before A Clockwork Orange goes from being fiction to fact in the good ole UK. I'm sure an argument could be made that it's already happened.

26 unknown jane: The problem is the welfare-state. It sucks people in and narrows their alternatives until they think that *without* the welfare-state, disaster and ruin are the only alternatives. It's nonsense, but it's the mindset that the welfare-state breeds in people. Consider the UK's NHS -- it routinely garners mediocre-to-poor reviews, yet modern Brits probably can't imagine life without it. And when (not if -- when) it collapses, they'll be outraged. They've taken a huge, ineffectual, unsupportably-expensive government program as a "right", as a fact of life, and are shocked when it turns out to have been unsupportable. All you have to do is ask yourself a simple question: against what are the protesters protesting? Basically, they're insisting that spending continue at these unsupportable levels, which it clearly cannot. They are learning that a "right" granted by the government can be rescinded at any time (usually when the money runs out). Getting pissed off about it doesn't help -- it's actually the citizens' fault for buying into such a blatant lie in the first place. The good news is that we will have the wreckage of this atrociously expensive experiment in social-engineering as an object lesson in what not to do in future times.

27 unknown jane, I reject the notion of there being forces beyond your control that keep you from advancing or conspire to force you onto welfare. Everyone's potential varies, but except for the most mentally or physically crippled, welfare is a bar easily cleared. You may have to overcome lifelong programming or your own selfish desires, but I refuse to believe that there are no other choices. If there are no jobs, MOVE to where the jobs are. I know Hondurans that have sneaked into this country and bust their asses to support their families at home. And that don't complain about the necessity of doing so. That's the thing about necessity - it's NECESSARY. They don't have the option of welfare, so they endured incredible hardships to work for their living. And yet, many in this country think they have the right to live in their own homes forever. After all, it's not their fault that BIG CAR forced Almagamated Buggy Whip, Inc. to close the local plant, is it?

28

Hay, here's some good news for the DOOM thread:

Radiation levels now at 100,000x normal.

29 What are the income tax rates in England?

30 32 What are the income tax rates in England?

One for you, nineteen for me.  If five percent should appear too small, be thankful I don't take it all.

31

The "Welfare Cat" picture you have displayed is racist and speciesist.  Felis Catus has a long and noble history, stretching all the way to the birthplace of all civilization - Egypt.  You can expect a contact from my office.

32 31

Hay, here's some good news for the DOOM thread:

Radiation levels now at 100,000x normal.

Posted by: Whatever! at March 28, 2011 09:56 AM (LyOUH)

Not only that...Nuclear rain in Mass....ahhhhhhh!

33

I had the pleasure of interviewing the lead attorney on the Social Security/Medicare case (Kent M Brown) several times, as recently as last week. He noted that Judge Collyer will now have to argue with herself at the Apellate level:

POMS and ObamaCare©

Scary stuff.

34
The good news is that we will have the wreckage of this atrociously expensive experiment in social-engineering as an object lesson in what not to do in future times.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 09:55 AM (4Pleu)

The past examples of previous socialist collapses are not good enough? Of course not. It doesn't matter how many times socialism is demonstrated to be a complete failure, many people will simply not recognize it.

35 Yeah, but we've got Obama's stash to count on.

36

IIRC, their debt is now something like ~200% of GDP. Which is a number which makes Barry envious I'm sure -- both for debt and 18 holes of golfin'.

Posted by: Downscaled Upscale at March 28, 2011 10:00 AM (IhHdM)

Closer to 250%, I believe.  It's what got the "Japan is going to sell off their dollar reserves overnight" panic going in a few corners of the interweb.

37
That's the thing about necessity - it's NECESSARY. They don't have the option of welfare, so they endured incredible hardships to work for their living. And yet, many in this country think they have the right to live in their own homes forever. After all, it's not their fault that BIG CAR forced Almagamated Buggy Whip, Inc. to close the local plant, is it?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 28, 2011 09:55 AM (hlY6R)

I have long argued that Welfare should ALWAYS be more unpleasant to experience than working for a living.

38

Hmmmmmmm - the stupid of that judge is strong.  I guess she doesn't know that the medicare TAX has its own deduction line - just like ss - on your payroll stub.  Ignorant c*** probably hasn't ever been employed in an real job where she actually got a paper check with attached stub.  

39 Wow, this thread is already pretty dead. Is everyone engaged in a battle royal over in Gabe's nomination post?

Hey! Everybody knows that it's critically important that the deck chairs be neatly arranged when the ship goes down.

40 Welfare, bah!  Are there no prisons?  Are there no workhouses? 

41 44 Wow, this thread is already pretty dead. Is everyone engaged in a battle royal over in Gabe's nomination post?

Thanks for the tip.  I'll stay here.  That post can only end in DOOM anyway.

And I really don't know what the tax rates are in England, but I'd guess they're pretty high.

42 Wow, this thread is already pretty dead. Is everyone engaged in a battle royal over in Gabe's nomination post?

It's a rare poster indeed who mans up to his daily dose of DOOM.  For some blog-hoppers, five DOOM days a week is too much.

Perhaps a DOOM-lite thread is required.  Not a "Terminally Boned" deal, but rather, a "kinetic boning."

On second thought, that doesn't work well, either. <.< How about "Surprise perpetual-motion financial mugging with a side of bone".

No?

._. Fine, I quit.

43 I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

44 I have an idea.   If we just give the Palestinians more free money, then they live amongst the Israelis in peace, prosperity, and happiness.

45 48 I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

Posted by: Stuff Ben Franklin said vol 7 at March 28, 2011 10:18 AM (tf9Ne)

Amen Brother Ben! The founders were brilliant. Subsequent elected officials not so much.

46 All governments (thus their political "leaders") have a choice:  they can favor increased government welfare, or they can pursue policies that favor businesses, both small and large.

Historically, almost every politician chooses the first path, in part because too damn few of them have any business experience and they buy the standard Hollywood/marxist plot line that bidnessmens are eeeevil people out to screw the workers every chance they get.

Of course this is utter crap, as anyone who's ever owned or run a business knows.  But until the crunch comes, truth gets beaten by lies and melodrama every time.

Of course *someone* has to pay taxes to run the welfare system.  Who might that be?  Why sure:  businessmen and hard-working employees.  If govt needs more money (ha ha ha!), just raise taxes.  Repeat as needed.

Then act surprised when businesses start failing at higher-than-normal rates (which are scary enough!)--or for larger companies, fleeing overseas to countries with lower production costs and fewer costly regulations.

After pols have bled businesses and reliable workers to death, it's just a matter of time before the number of folks on welfare rises to the point of busting the government budget.  After all, when governments make it feasible to not work but still continue to live roughly as one has before, it can't come as a surprise that about half the population thinks that's not a bad choice.  Obviously it's FAR easier than paying out of your own pocket to move to an area where more jobs are, or paying to re-train.

Finally there's the feedback of elections:  Democrats (and more than a few RINOs) have known for years that promising more goodies--like 96 weeks of unemployment bennies--is a great way to get elected.  Result is that states and c-districts with lots of unemployment end up with the most repulsive, flaming socialists/marxists as representatives. 

And of course these assholes will resolutely vote against any measure designed to revive or encourage *business*--which is the only way to get out of the mess!

It's a perfect Gordian knot, made possible by the sneakiness of politicians in passing laws that violate the Constitution, by making the federal gubment the big welfare nanny.

47

Can't vouch for the accuracy, but this site indicates the top marginal rate in England is 50%.

The comments tools are acting up a bit.

48 OT - Cynthia McKinney brings the crazy yet again:

Former Dem Rep. Cynthia McKinney: The Reason WeÂ’re Targeting Gaddafi Is Because He Brought Socialized Health Care to Libya or SomethingÂ…

49 Hey, does anybody remember all those people who used to say that encouraging dependency among able-bodied people who could do for themselves was a BAD thing? Like, socially and fiscally?

...remember?

Whatever happened to those guys??

50 That McKinney chick is scary crazy.

51 Let's add a little funny to your doom, monty.

52 The Floating Dollar As A Threat To Property Rights

Good stuff from Hillsdale College.

53 Where does Welfare Cat live?   Ever heard of EBT?

54 55 Hey, does anybody remember all those people who used to say that encouraging dependency among able-bodied people who could do for themselves was a BAD thing? Like, socially and fiscally?

...remember?

Whatever happened to those guys??

Posted by: lauraw at March 28, 2011 10:25 AM (QB9Zw)

We're all bully well dead!

55 All governments (thus their political "leaders") have a choice: they can favor increased government welfare, or they can pursue policies that favor businesses, both small and large. I often say that the modern welfare-state is a prime example of malinvestment: investing in the old (or the status quo, if you prefer) to the absolute detriment of the young. We mortgage the future to make the present more comfortable. We've weakened social structures that have persisted for millennia -- the nuclear family, marriage, civic organizations -- and folded those functions into a huge and impersonal state apparatus. But the liberal welfare state is a beast that eats everything, and right now it is in the process of devouring the seed-corn of the next generation: the labor and savings of young people not yet even born.

56 I am the god of hell fire and I bring you:

Fire
I'll take you to burn.
Fire
I'll take you to learn.
I'll see you burn!

You fought hard and you saved and learned
but all of it's going to burn.
And your mind, your tiny mind you know you've really been so blind.
Now's your time burn your mind.
You're falling far too far behind.
Oh no
oh no
oh no
you gonna burn!

57 Can I opt out now (and stop paying those taxes)?  That would seem to be where this logic is leading.

58 The collapse of the USD proceeds apace. That's why I was so happy to see Canada's government fall last week. USD/CAD had rallied almost 100 basis points to .9866 and I was hoping for at least a few pips above parity so I could cash out. I underestimated this administration. And now, I will witness the wealth-destroying firepower of this fully-armed and operation monetary policy. Helicopter Ben, you may begin shoveling when ready.

59 Found the link to the "funny" video, here

60 DOOM! for Obama: http://tinyurl.com/49yeg2e

You Should Have Listened to Farrakhan When You Were At His Table: New Black Panthers Turn on Obama in an N-word, Uncle Tom Tirade (Content Warning)

61

Can't vouch for the accuracy, but this site indicates the top marginal rate in England is 50%.

That is in addition to a VAT, and I suspect their participation curves are a lot better then ours.

62 This PS3 is rocking my new big screen TV, but the basic satellite package sucks.

63 The mental gymnastics required to come up with this sort of BS is mind boggling to those of us with just ordinary brains. I now feel left out that I didn't get to do LSD and such when I was younger. I am so Old School that this new logic completely escapes me. I guess I'll just hunker down here with some Valu-Rite vodka and Jalapeno Cheetos and watch Mr. Bean. He makes more sense than this.

64 59 Where does Welfare Cat live? 

Apparently, wherever it wants to live is where it lives.

65 Re: "This is convoluted enough, but Judge Collyer’s truly novel finding comes with her implicit argument that to be “entitled” to a government benefit serfdom is to be obligated to accept it."

Yes, well...slavery vs. freedom is in the end always an all or nothing thing. Nothing new under the sun...

66 Fuck. I wish my hubby's man-junk came with buttons like the kitten's.

67

Tons of Monty links today. Thanks.

In terms of the welfare state, in the post-Doom future, I think the only fair type of 'welfare' or 'unemployment' would be in the form of a personal savings account an employee can choose to have money sent to every month from their paycheck. Any money they accumulate, they can access if they get fired. If you've never worked before, you have nothing in your account. If you opt to put in 50% of your pay, or nothing, every month, it's your personal choice.

Such a system also completely eliminates government agencies which is why we won't see that anytime soon.

Anytime you give someone free money, someone will take it.

68 12 One (big) reason why the UK is one of the linchpins of the Loyal Order of the Terminally Boned (LOTB): about 20-25% of the population works in the public sector. In Scotland, the figure is closer to 30% of the working population.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 09:27 AM (4Pleu)

But Monty, here in the homeland, we have more people employed by the government than by manufacturing and construction combined. 

Nearly 20 million Americans work for Federal, State, or local government. (That figure includes military.)

145 million Americans actualy work. So if my calculator is working, it is just under 14% of the work force in America working for the government. Add the voters who collect on the dole: 50 million on welfare and moving toward 50 million on SS we have around 120 million that receive some sort of government wage or benefit. Take all that to the voting booth and you can see why  Honey-Bama and his ilk of freebie supporters win.

69 Boned.

70 Genital warts are kinda like buttons. Go find Lindsay Lohan and dangle an 8-ball in front of her nose. Three weeks, max, and your husband will look like someone flung a spoonful of oatmeal on his johnson and you'll have the knobby texture you've been looking for.

71 Via a Gabe twit - the Al Queda Arabian Peninsula franchise is gearing up for a strike, if successful oil is going up.  If they hit a pipeline or refinery hard - oil will stay up.  A little doom lubricant.

72 - If you choose not to take Medicare -- by this Judge's reasoning -- you are not eligible for Social Security either.

And yet people keep sneering when I mention that we're currently governed by a cadre of clowns who are Left and Lefter.

73

I should chime in and note my situation: at one time, a machinist could relocate and find suitable, good-paying work just about anywhere in these United States. However, it seems that, in the zeal to engineer our society, we were forced (for reasons I have yet to fathom) into this thing called a "service economy" sometime during the Cliton administration. This forced a radical and unecessary change and the near-total elimination of what was once considered a vital part of the economy - manufacturing.

Now, here we are again being forced by this administration into something called a "global economy." I see more parallels with the previous push and the direction is, once again, away from allowing organic and natural growth in the American job market into someone else's idea of whatever it is that we should be doing for a living.

I wonder when we're going to wake up to the fact that our economy needs a new lease on life with increased monetary freedom instead of misguided efforts to control our economy by creating legal restrictions upon it that "guide" it into some uncharted new realm. This is good for us, we are told by our betters in Washington, although we aren't told why or how this is so.

In the wake of the disaster in Japan and its effects on American factories that are now idled due to the disruption of the parts chain from there, the upheaveal in the ME and the resulting high gas prices, I'm so sure that moving toward a global economy is a good idea. We seem to be more succeptible to disruptions elsewhere for no good reason.

How about we concentrate on us for a while and let the rest of the world do whatever it's going to do without harming our interests here? Such a thing is possible, however it would require the aforementioned awakening, particularly in Washington, today's home of the Big Sleep.

74 Canadian Infidel, did you have your exit interview at the US consulate yet? If so, I wanna hear all aboot it.

75 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 28, 2011 10:41 AM (hlY6R)

Yeah, uh thanks? (_{steps away slowly, not making eye contact})

I'm looking for a 'kids take a nap' button, 'romantic' button, 'foreplay - not just 'wanna do it' button

76 Monday diversion:

http://tinyurl.com/62nl8wg

77 Yeah, I've got me some faith in the judicial system.

78 85 I'm looking for a 'kids take a nap' button, 'romantic' button, 'foreplay - not just 'wanna do it' button
Posted by: momma at March 28, 2011 10:46 AM (penCf)

Value-Rite works for all three.

79 Anyone have some decent links to rational information on the latest Fukushima DOOMiness?

80 'foreplay - not just 'wanna do it' button Men don't have that button. "Foreplay" means we actually took our socks off this time.

81 Momma, you should be more specific in the future.

82

Ooops, that should read "I'm not so sure that moving toward a global economy is a good idea."

Too much doom, not enough coffee...

83

30 Hey...Jeffy...why are you using "you"?  My family is, scarily, one of the more financially stable.

I'm not talking about should haves or ideals.  I'm talking about what I see has happened.  You have people who are on welfare now, who are working (and yet you want to talk about making sacrifices, that they are too comfortable -- some of you make me laugh -- what is so damned "comfortable" about somebody who works who has been forced to welfare, and worries daily about what is going to happen?  I'm not talking about people who live in high cost areas and who make even 30K a year; how are they "comfortable"?)...and we have an economy that must make cuts (and probably raise taxes) or it will fall.  Those workers drawing welfare caused some of their problems -- I'd say mostly in the voting booth, but then again, there hasn't been much choice there for quite a while...on either side.

I could also say that a lot of people in the 90-250K a year group have also royally f**ked themselves, and continue to do so (quite a few of them that I know have been spending like drunken sailors on dainties and niceties, and have let responsiblities slide -- are they less culpable than the ones below them on the rung?).  I have seen people in the 50-100K bracket who have cheated the welfare system for years...and who also have spent like drunken sailors on niceties and pretty things for themselves, still do.  Are they to be given the excuse because they hold good jobs...and put the correct party's campaign signs in their yards?  They are after all -- "the Producers of wealth", right?

And you talk about "these people should not be made comfortable"...I could turn it around on you...

The problem is that everyone wants to keep their stuff and are afraid of losing it...because that is exactly what is probably going to happen.  Cuts across all financial, social, racial, religious, whatever groups and is likely inevitable.  How we manage to come through out to the other side will determine whether or not we stay a society we can be proud of...or if we go down in the history books as nothing better than 30s Germany/Russia at best, the DRC at worst.

Mene mene tekel upharsin -- it applies to everyone.  Maybe it's long overdue.

84

My appointment to renounce citizenship is tomorrow at the US Embassy. Just for kicks, I'm going to ask if I get back all of the money I paid into Social Security. We all know the answer (paying into Social Security is a tax and you are not guaranteed anything) but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. Could you imagine the exodus of people in the United States if they could get back some or all of the money they put into SS if they renounced citizenship?

I'm allowed to submit something detailing why I'm renouncing citizenship but am not bothering. I'll just tell them the truth: the debt has increased $5 TRILLION dollars in 3 years, it's unsustainable, I don't see things ending well and don't foresee any opportunities where living in the United States in the future will be a good decision for me or my future family. I'm not going to tell them that I'm scared how much the government is going to be taking from it's citizens down the road, even those abroad. Also, long term, while I don't have much now, I still am going to work at being rich. I don't want the US government trying to take away much of what I worked for.

Never thought I'd say any of this. I remember how thrilled I was when I found out that my citizenship didn't expire at 18 and I could still claim US citizenship. That was the greatest gift in the world at the time.

Too early to start drinking....?

85 OT:  Okay, got 6 pairs of animals.  How long is a cubit?

86 Can I get a Hallelujah?

Final ‘Oprah’ episode to air on May 25

87 94 OT: Okay, got 6 pairs of animals. How long is a cubit? Posted by: SCRednek at March 28, 2011 10:52 AM (Lv85W) Safe to say it's rainy there?

88 82 Canadian Infidel, did you have your exit interview at the US consulate yet? If so, I wanna hear all aboot it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 28, 2011 10:45 AM (hlY6R)

Tomorrow Empire of Jeff. I filled out all of the paperwork yesterday. I'll post Wednesday morning.

I was thinking of writing something silly like "I'm renouncing my citizenship in protest of the Libyan war!" but I fear the US government. I'm going quietly.

89 And you talk about "these people should not be made comfortable"...I could turn it around on you... About social welfare in general, my point is this: if you subsidize something, you get more of it. If you pay someone not to work, you will get fewer people working. Personal indebtedness is another matter. The modern western nations consume far out of proportion to what they actually make in wages (especially Americans), and they do this at least in part because they know that the welfare-state subsidizes this activity via old-age pensions, health-care entitlements, etc. It's another kind of malinvestment: we spend our money on things that do no really enhance wealth (big-screen TVs, jet-skis, cars, even houses) rather than investing it for our own future.

90

Benadryl works.

Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 10:47 AM (5I8G0)

We tried the mommy and daddy need to talk excuse about how we are going to celebrate (insert next holiday here).  Well, my hubby said bacon day once.  Turns out my kids google it. 

So, when we came out my kids asked what we decided, and hubby said, 'Well, we are going to Denny's next bacon day.'

My five year old didn't miss a beat: 'Cool!' Turns to his sister, 'We are going to Denny's tomorrow!'

Yeap, Bacon Day was the next day.

91 95 Hot damn.  My stock PANL just keeps going up.  I was going to get out when it passed $30 but now it has passed $50 and I have no idea when to get out now.  Especially since I think QE3 is gonna happen so this thing could just keep on truckin'.
Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 10:52 AM (5I8G

Only things I've held are Energy (adding on dips), Comm., Mining (Ag, Au, Cu, Al; also will add on dips), BioTech and Pharm. stocks.  PANL looks interesting...

92 I'll use poker as an example of pure capitalism. The house acts as the government in that they take a cut of almost every pot and in return for that they provide a safe and legitimate game. Only the winners pay the tax. This tax amounts to 10-15% in the lower limit games but decreases as a percentage as you move up in limits. (There is a different system that uses hourly seat rental fees with no rake). The more pots you win, the more tax you pay in the rake. Now, 90% of all poker players are lifetime losers. The top 10% of the players make all the money, the rest better have a different source of income.
 
The house can increase their take two ways -- by increasing the rake or by increasing the number of players. If the rake is increased too much, people will go down the road to a cheaper game or quit playing as they are losing too fast. Only by increasing the number of players can they increase income; there are additional labor expenses (dealers) but fixed costs remain relatively flat. There are incentives to improve the playing environment so that more players will come. A piece of the house take is spent on security so that the players are safe there.
 
Now contrast this system to the US economy. Only the winners (job holders) pay tax but it is a ruinous 40% or more.  There is no other game down the road for an individual, but a company can change their home game. And they do, moving to a lower raked game overseas. The losers get a slice of the winner's pie so that they don't have to have another source of income. In fact, they don't even have to play to benefit from the game.
 
This little essay is designed to show how far we have drifted from a capitalistic system. I have left out the role of investments and capital as it complicates the picture a lot. My point is primarily this -- the game is designed right now so that no one actually wants to play. The incentives are reversed. The house isn't providing a fair and level game.

93 Welfare kitty has teh cable???

But we are doomed because the Morons are voting for evil Palin again and I missed the book thread yesterday!

94 UJ. I think that the liberal elites/power class were aiming for trapping people with the easier mortgage access. Bureaucracy cannot dictate people's lives for them nearly as easily if they can move with just a notice to a landlord.

95 103 Welfare kitty has teh cable???

Vic -- Welfare Kitty not only has better cable than me, they also have newer TV's and better cell devices...guar-an-teed.

96 OT:  Okay, got 6 pairs of animals.  How long is a cubit?

Approximately 18 inches.

97

The best place for updates on Japan is NEI.

98 30 Hey...Jeffy...why are you using "you"?  My family is, scarily, one of the more financially stable It's the "royal you." I can't stand that Miss Manners "one should" shit. And you talk about "these people should not be made comfortable"...I could turn it around on you... No, you really can't. I've never had a campaign sign in my yard and no government policy or circumstance will ever control my destiny. There were jobs in New Orleans, but none that would preserve my lifestyle. So I started looking around the country and was booking trips to explore other markets. In between, I took night classes to expand my eligibility for employment to a broader slice of employers. This was after the closure of my business and going without a salary for almost three years. As it turned out, a great opportunity presented in Canada and I acted on it immediately. I pulled four kids out of school and lost over $140K on my house for the opportunity to improve my family's situation. Opportunities abound. You have to work to prepare yourself to take advantage of them, the experience to recognize them and have the balls to act on them when they arise. I do not come from a priveliged background. I drank myself out of college and into the army. All of these are learned skills. But they require work, sacrifice and rearranging your thinking. None of them require waiting around for something to happen to you.

99 58 The Floating Dollar As A Threat To Property Rights Good stuff from Hillsdale College. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 28, 2011 10:26 AM (LH6ir) Excellent piece! Read it in Imprimis last week and wanted to post it, but it wasn't yet in the archives! DOOM! It's what's for break time! (And y'all don't mess with break time.)

100 Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 11:04 AM (5I8G0)

Within energy, I've been looking at some (pure) NatGas players -- I have some interest within the bigboys (XOM, CVX, etc.), but would like a pure play.  Coins -- sold a bunch of Ag 'bag coins' ~$22...DOH!

101

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 28, 2011 11:00 AM (ENKCw)

Nice analogy.

 

Vic -- Welfare Kitty not only has better cable than me, they also have newer TV's and better cell devices...guar-an-teed.

Posted by: Crabby Appleton at March 28, 2011 11:03 AM (6DDE+)

I owned Section 8 housing before. NOTHING will turn you against the welfare state faster than that experience.

 

 

102 Anyone have some decent links to rational information on the latest Fukushima DOOMiness?

NEI and WNN.

Kyodo has as much breathless bullshit as any American network.

103 108 CDR M, thanks.

104 CDN Infidel -- Sec. 8; I have no doubt!

105 Welfare Kitty drinks Heineken?...FUCK THAT SHIT!...PABST-BLUE-RIBBON!

106

48 The trouble is, that the government has led the working INTO poverty, and found a way to keep them there that assuages everyone's guilt and/or responsiblity.

But people are still wanting to look at it from the standpoint that the consequences are still somewhere in the future.  That, imho, is wrong thinking: it's already here.  The time to have avoided it happened a long time ago...now, what is to be done?

107 Safe to say it's rainy there?

Indeed.  Rain gauge is just shy of 7 inches since Saturday, 1800hrs.
Put out topsoil and seed on Friday.  I'm sure there is a political metaphor in there somewhere.

108

For some reason the Courts have decided to read Limitations, as empowering language.  When MAY becomes MUST, we do not have Freedom

 

109

Hay, here's some good news for the DOOM thread:

Radiation levels now at 100,000x normal.

Posted by: Whatever! at March 28, 2011 09:56 AM (LyOUH)

IT'S OVER 9000!

110

112 Yes, I really can Jeff.

Did people NEED to go out and buy new cars every other year?  Did they NEED to have a motorcoach or in ground pool?  Did they NEED to go on expensive vacations each year? Did they NEED to buy huge new homes or flip properties?  Did they NEED to play the stock market?

No, they didn't, and they probably shouldn't have if they weren't in a position to REALLY deal with what could be the bad consequences.  Nevertheless, they did...and here we are. 

Nobody is going to get out of this on a ride for free ticket -- except maybe the very, very extremely powerful and wealthy (and maybe not even some of them).  Buckle up.

111 now, what is to be done? That's the question, isn't it? We can protest and yell and complain and march and throw things all we want, but come end of day the money is still gone. I don't think the political process has any answers to our predicament because it will only reflect our (unrealistic) desires back at us. I'm increasingly of the opinion that we can't really "do" anything at the governmental level -- the train is out of control, all we can do is get out of the way as much as we can. On a personal level, I've taken some steps to protect myself: I've diversified my investments (more commodies and precious metals), I've started saving my money like crazy, and I've become a fanatic about not taking on any more credit debt at all. I think of it as "battleground preparation" for what comes after the financial mess works itself out.

112 127 Speaking of Doom!  Qatar seizes 2 Iranian boats with arms headin' towards Bahrain.

Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 11:21 AM (5I8G0)

It'll be interesting to see how Iran responds to this action.

113 A Burmese cat on welfare!  This is contrary to the Asian stereotype, or is that the point?  Be prepared to hear from the Ho Chi Minh chapter of the Asian Feline-American Anti-Defamation League.

114 No, they didn't, and they probably shouldn't have if they weren't in a position to REALLY deal with what could be the bad consequences.  Nevertheless, they did...and here we are.

Be careful with that "shouldn't," there, Jane.  The only reason you have the ability to say "shouldn't" is that welfare state.  Had it been left alone (as it should have been) their failure would not, necessarily, have cost you a dime or an hour's sleep.  I don't know about EoJ, but my thought is, "Suck it up, buttercup."  Or, put it another way, "You can do whatever you want, but you should know that actions have consequences, and you should consider the possible consequences of your actions."

If someone wasted their money, why should they be a concern of mine- governmentally speaking?  If you won't make the sacrifices necessary to feed and clothe your family, why should the government force people half a continent away to pay for your food and clothing?

And why do we always discount the overwhelming generosity (which is on display all. The. Time) of the American spirit?  I dare say that very, very few of those on welfare would go hungry or without shelter and clothing if the welfare state just went away tomorrow.  Presuming, of course, that we got to keep all that money the government was not saving.  Even without that, I imagine we'd find some way to take care of them- socially, not forced by the government.

115 Qatar seizes 2 Iranian boats with arms headin' towards Bahrain. I'm still amazed at how few news outlets understand this "Arab uprising" across the ME as another front in the endless Sunni/Shia battle for dominance in the Muslim world. The Shi'a Iranians believe that the Mahdi's return is imminent, and they're working to bring it about (Syria's Alawite ruling class is an offshoot of the Shi'a, while the majority of the people are Sunni). If the Iranians ever get a usable nuke, the Saudis will get one from Pakistan, posthaste. There is no way the Saudis are going to live with an ascendant Persian empire right next door. I fully expect a nuclear exchange to happen at some point over there -- there are too many nutbars and religious crazies running the governments of the various countries. The Paks will nuke India (or vice-versa); or Saudi will nuke Iran (or vice versa); and then everyone will turn on Israel.

116 Buying new cars when one does not need to hurts your ability to save.  My first car I drove 12 years before getting a new one (and that was driven by the need to have a 4 door for kids) and the one I'm currently driving now is 12 years old and will continue to drive until it costs too much to keep runnin'.

Posted by: CDR M at March 28, 2011 11:23 AM (5I8G0)

Agreed -- my current ride is a 2000 VW Passat 4-MO with 247k on the clock.  I'm determined to get 300k on it...

117 28 It's really just a matter of time before A Clockwork Orange goes from being fiction to fact in the good ole UK. I'm sure an argument could be made that it's already happened.

I believe that after the film was released, there were some "incidents" blamed on the film and Stanley Kubrick, the films director, did indeed voluntarily ban the film in Britain.

So yes, it already happened in the 70's.

118 I'm still amazed at how few news outlets understand this "Arab uprising" across the ME as another front in the endless Sunni/Shia battle for dominance in the Muslim world. The Shi'a Iranians believe that the Mahdi's return is imminent, and they're working to bring it about (Syria's Alawite ruling class is an offshoot of the Shi'a, while the majority of the people are Sunni).

So here's the question of the day: Is Teh Won Sunni or Shia? I'm leaning toward Shia personally...

119 The trouble is, that the government has led the working INTO poverty, and found a way to keep them there that assuages everyone's guilt and/or responsiblity. So, on the one hand, it's the government's fault for "leading" people to poverty and individuals don't bear responsibility for the economic choices they made... Did people NEED to go out and buy new cars every other year?  Did they NEED to have a motorcoach or in ground pool?  Did they NEED to go on expensive vacations each year? Did they NEED to buy huge new homes or flip properties?  Did they NEED to play the stock market? No, they didn't, and they probably shouldn't have if they weren't in a position to REALLY deal with what could be the bad consequences.  But their poor choices got them to where they are? Look, it's okay to fail or fuck up. I've done both several times. It's not okay to wallow in it and blame "The Man". They're not keeping you from learning new skills or moving to where the jobs are.

120 Everyone's potential varies, but except for the most mentally or physically crippled, welfare is a bar easily cleared. You may have to overcome lifelong programming or your own selfish desires, but I refuse to believe that there are no other choices. If there are no jobs, MOVE to where the jobs are.

That is what nobody seems to understand anymore.  Nobody is required to deliver a job to your fucking doorstep.  The unemployment office only requires you to look for work within 10 miles of where you live.  Politicians will fight to get more unemployment/welfare to keep their voters(dependents) from leaving for another city/county/state.

When I was growing up my parents constantly improved our standard of living.  We started out dirt poor, but my dad worked his ass off and we moved several times to go to where the jobs are.  My dad dropped out of school in the 9th fucking grade and his final pay level at retirement around '99 was in the $60,000/year range (non-fucking-union).

Now I live in close proximity to several families that won't even lift a fucking finger to better themselves.  Why?  Because government programs keep them and their kids and their dogs fat, warm, and dry and even entertained.  Our tax dollars and the generosity of multiple charities keep these people off of the streets but when it comes to their own money it goes for alcohol, tattoos, cigarettes, x-box games and body piercings.

121 Look, it's okay to fail or fuck up. The freedom to succeed requires the freedom to fail. They are two sides of the same coin. Remove the consequences of failure (penury, debt, loss), and you likewise remove the impetus to succeed (wealth, respect, material goods). This is why socialism invariably fails whenever it is tried: it attempts to prevent the consequences of failure, but all that happens is that "failure" is spread out to everybody and in time utterly destroys the society. A country where no one can fail would be a hell on earth because it would mean that no one can succeed, either.

122 The Shi'a Iranians believe that the Mahdi's return is imminent, and they're working to bring it about (Syria's Alawite ruling class is an offshoot of the Shi'a, while the
majority of the people are Sunni).

Iranian Government Releases Video Saying The Return Of The Mahdi Is Near, Islamic Regime Will Help Usher In The End TimesÂ…

123

Hello, all!  Just gonna say, the Islamists in the ME have more and more reason to work with the NoKo's.  Why?

Talmud Study is Mandatory in South Korea (link to the Muqata)

I find the story quite fascinating.  Many of the comments at the post itself are skeptical, but I'm not.  The South Koreans have made huge strides in recent years in catching up to the other industrial powerhouses in Asia - China, Japan - so I find it easy to believe that they'd wish to learn from the successes of other cultures worldwide to try and understand what's made them successful.  I don't know if you can say "studying the Talmud" is what's made Jews so successful in so many fields, but all else being equal, why not? 

124

And you talk about "these people should not be made comfortable"...I could turn it around on you...

Posted by: unknown jane at March 28, 2011 10:51 AM (5/yRG)

Your experience with welfare recipients is quite different from my own. I know plenty of people who are on welfare and making no attempt to do any work of any sort. Often they trade their food stamps for drugs. It is these sort of people whom i'm referring to.  I suspect the constitute the majority of Welfare Recipients.

125 I don't know about EoJ, but my thought is, "Suck it up, buttercup."  Sounds like you know ALL about me. That's the central theme of my new book, You Are So FUCKED And NO ONE Is Coming To Help You, So You'd Better Figure Shit Out Quick: The Tao of Jeff.

126 The business of America is business.




Brraaiiinnnns.

127 Monty,

A hypothetical for you: Why should anyone save at all. Doesn't the oncoming debt "reset" tell us that we should max our credit cards and get all the good stuff now? I mean, how much is your savings going to be worth if it is in US Dollars? In the housing bubble fiasco, rule-followers were boned and douche bags were rewarded. Why should anyone save at this point?

Thanks in advance.

128 A country where no one can fail would be a hell on earth because it would mean that no one can succeed, either.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 11:35 AM (4Pleu)

Look, at a certain point, you've made enough money.  We need to spread the wealth around.  You greedy capitalist pig.

Pass the wagyu please?

129

>>That's the central theme of my new book, You Are So FUCKED And NO ONE Is Coming To Help You, So You'd Better Figure Shit Out Quick: The Tao of Jeff.

Also known as Stuff Jeff Said?

130

keep those Kitteh's coming Monty, I am using them to make some real headway with some of my friends and relatives.

 

thanks

131 If the Iranians ever get a usable nuke, the Saudis will get one from Pakistan, posthaste. There is no way the Saudis are going to live with an ascendant Persian empire right next door. I fully expect a nuclear exchange to happen at some point over there -- there are too many nutbars and religious crazies running the governments of the various countries. The Paks will nuke India (or vice-versa); or Saudi will nuke Iran (or vice versa); and then everyone will turn on Israel.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 11:26 AM (4Pleu)

If we were being sensible, we would never allow the Iranians to get anywhere near having a nuke. We would do whatever it takes to stop them.

Like I said, "being sensible" is a prerequisite.

132 Maxing out credit cards is not a good strategy because when the inflation bubble finally does hit credit card interest rates will go through the roof. The banks will NOT lose money on credit. The same thing happened back in the Carter years. Typical credit card interest in those days ranged from 21% to 30% depending on the State.

133

Nobody is required to deliver a job to your fucking doorstep

Now that is a disappointment. I can get just about everything else delivered to my doorstep by Amazon now, how come they can't deliver me a job?

/sarc

134

More welfare kitteh

135
I fully expect a nuclear exchange to happen at some point over there -- there are too many nutbars and religious crazies running the governments of the various countries. The Paks will nuke India (or vice-versa); or Saudi will nuke Iran (or vice versa); and then everyone will turn on Israel.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 11:26 AM (4Pleu)

That's crazy talk.

136

Ace gives Matt Damon movie Three Thumbs Up! (iykwim).

"I can't wait until it's 'in the can'. "

137 Posted by: Bruceinsocal at March 28, 2011 11:39 AM (xikIn)

Bruce -- It wouldn't matter if it were a good 'strategy' or not, fact is my head wont let me do it.  My needs are my first priority and I only satisfy my wants when my wallet allows me the latitude.  In other words, I pay for my wants as I can afford them.  Do I live a simple existence?  Yes, but it is still a rich life.  I also sleep like a rock every night with no worries, because I've (almost) zero debt. 

138
I'm increasingly of the opinion that we can't really "do" anything at the governmental level -- the train is out of control, all we can do is get out of the way as much as we can.

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 11:20 AM (4Pleu)

I concur.  I've been of that opinion for a few years now, but I don't really think there is much preparation that can be done, other than being out of debt, and staying the hell away from anything urban.   Precious metals might well be confiscated again, so I haven't seen much point to that.  We do have several acres of farmland, so we could grow our own food if need be, and, of course, the ammunition reserves are topped off - not so much in-case-of-war, but rather, because ammo might well become a currency in itself. <.<

All of this ignores the rest of the world theatre, though.  It isn't as though the rest of the world will slow down when America goes belly-up.  Russia is practically salivating over their former satellite states, and the Middle East is, of course, the Middle East. 

It looks like a revisiting of the 1940s with different actors.

139 Vic, that was an awesome welfare kitty.

140 speaking of precious metals? Platinum? it seems more stable (less overvalued now than its historical price) Gold runs up when people fear currencies will fail -ie now and silver is even more volatile and is very high now (well 2 weeks ago when I checked)

141 153

Ace gives Matt Damon movie Three Thumbs Up! (iykwim).

"I can't wait until it's 'in the can'. "

I'm intwigued!!!

142

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 11:26 AM (4Pleu)

No idea how I missed this post, it's a good summation.

143 A hypothetical for you: Why should anyone save at all. Doesn't the oncoming debt "reset" tell us that we should max our credit cards and get all the good stuff now? I mean, how much is your savings going to be worth if it is in US Dollars? In the housing bubble fiasco, rule-followers were boned and douche bags were rewarded. Why should anyone save at this point? I hear variants of this all the time, and I always say that it's a dumb idea to max out your debt in expectation of a vast inflation (borrow "good" dollars, pay back inflated dollars, in other words). It's a bad idea because you (implicitly) assume that your income will outstrip inflation. I don't think that's the case. And when you take on certain kinds of debt, you can have other assets (homes, cars, savings accounts) garnished or lein'd to pay the debt. Saving your money is first and foremost a kind of mental discipline; the value it has to your retirement is almost secondary, to my mind. Having savings gives you options. It allows you freedom and leeway. Being overburdened with debt is the same as wearing shackles, like Marley's ghost. It limits your options, narrows your horizons, and clouds your future (what happens if you lose your job? what if you get sick? what if the future doesn't pan out like you think it will?). If you are smart and diversify your savings, then you don't have to worry as much about financial upheaval because you're hedged -- you'll lose some, but you won't lose everything, and you'll still be better off than the 90% of other chumps who never put a dime away and labor under the burden of an enormous personal debt. Borrowing for investment or enterprise-building is one thing; borrowing for comfort and entertainment is pretty dumb, unless you get very favorable loan terms, do it only on a short-term basis, and pay it off in full.

144 speaking of precious metals? Platinum? it seems more stable (less overvalued now than its historical price) Gold runs up when people fear currencies will fail -ie now and silver is even more volatile and is very high now (well 2 weeks ago when I checked)

Posted by: Palerider at March 28, 2011 11:50 AM (FYUWS)

But why bother, sir?  The current administration is even more grab-happy than FDR's was, and FDR went and snatched the gold right from safes across the fruited plain.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that the current administration, and whatever follows it, will do the same in an (admittedly vain) attempt to forestall the economic apocalypse?  And with that in mind, wouldn't it be better to place your eggs in another basket?

145 A hypothetical for you: Why should anyone save at all. Doesn't the oncoming debt "reset" tell us that we should max our credit cards and get all the good stuff now? I mean, how much is your savings going to be worth if it is in US Dollars? In the housing bubble fiasco, rule-followers were boned and douche bags were rewarded. Why should anyone save at this point?

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Bruceinsocal at March 28, 2011 11:39 AM (xikIn)

Interesting fact many don't know.

If you 'settle' credit card debt, the IRS treats that as taxable income... in the 'other income' category (100-c)....

So.... if Max your cards, then settle, it tips you way up in the tax brackets, and they get you anyway...

146

Interesting fact many don't know.

If you 'settle' credit card debt, the IRS treats that as taxable income... in the 'other income' category (100-c)....

So.... if Max your cards, then settle, it tips you way up in the tax brackets, and they get you anyway...

Posted by: Romeo13 at March 28, 2011 11:55 AM (NtXW4)

...wow.

147

112 There you go using "you" again -- I'm quite ok with my life.  Things could always be better; of course, but it could be worse.

What concerns me is when I have neighbors who come to me upset -- their hours have been cut, they've been laid off...and they are not in a good position.  They haven't been extravagant with their lifestyle, but they were never well off to begin with -- I fail to find fault with their lives though; they are good people.  My children tell me of people in their units with families who are in the same position.  They are all being sucked into the welfare trap, and they don't deserve to be, nor do they deserve to be treated in such a blase manner or lumped into one big, overgeneralized category.  The events that caused where they and everyone else is at right now happened long before most of them were born and often quite beyond them.  They come looking for an answer, and what do you tell them?

Not everyone's lot in life is the same, and nothing is every cut and dried or black and white -- they are not you, you are not them, and I'm neither.  But here we all are.  So...what now?

148 No one knows what the future holds, but odds are high that we are in for some rough roads ahead.
Israel is being surrounded, we have people in our government who are aiding that surrounding.
I look for another financial crisis in the near future, maybe right before the next election.

149 157 speaking of precious metals? Platinum? it seems more stable (less overvalued now than its historical price) Gold runs up when people fear currencies will fail -ie now and silver is even more volatile and is very high now (well 2 weeks ago when I checked)

Posted by: Palerider at March 28, 2011 11:50 AM (FYUWS)

Palerider -- If you're so inclined, this (NYSE -- BHP) is a good play in the Pt arena.

150 161: Oops sorry Mr revenuer, I sold my coins for cash and then lost the cash gambling.

151 They come looking for an answer, and what do you tell them? I'll let this guy speak for me.

152

OT (this seems to be all I can muster today, OT items):

Would anyone like to wager how often Obama will say "let me be perfectly clear" and "As I've said previously" in his address to the nation tonight about Libya?  I think I'm on the lowside with 4 and 3 times, respectively.  This is provided Bammy even DOES the address, and doesn't bail last minute so that Hillary or Bubba can fill in for him.

153 169 161: Oops sorry Mr revenuer, I sold my coins for cash and then lost the cash gambling.

Posted by: Palerider at March 28, 2011 12:03 PM (FYUWS)

Yup...I don't worry too much about the Gubmint Man at my door either...

154 From the clip I posted: ""Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or fuckin beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back." - Al Swearengen, "Deadwood"

155 Posted by: MWR at March 28, 2011 12:06 PM (4df7R)

I wont be watching the Bamster tonight -- I'm sure there's something more compelling to do instead.

156 If you 'settle' credit card debt, the IRS treats that as taxable income... in the 'other income' category (100-c)....

Only if the debt is "forgiven". Simply paying it off is not considered income. This is reported under a 1099C. If you didn'ty get one you don't declare it.

157 brobdingnagian it's the new shibboleth.

158 Wefare cat isn't 'fixed' is it.

159 ""Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or fuckin beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man,? and give some back." - Al Swearengen, "Deadwood" I am sexually aroused. Why have I never seen this show?

160 Why have I never seen this show?

Come to me, oh dread Lord.

161

I am sexually aroused. Why have I never seen this show?

Dude!  Get on that.  Good Stuff.

162 177 Wefare cat isn't 'fixed' is it.

Posted by: torabora at March 28, 2011 12:17 PM (3ZyT6)

HEH!...I think not...teets-a-plenty!!!

163

141 That's because I don't live in an urban area.  I live in a very rural area that has never been economically flush,  but people have always been able to get by and live fairly ok.  The cost of living is low compared to the rest of the country (that's why people move here or stay here).  For the last decade it has been in a bit of an economic slump, but for the past two years it's been in a tailspin (heh).

A fair number of the  welfare recipients we have are military families (not officers' of course), the rural/small town poor (who have always been there, but a lot/most of them do work -- and somebody has to clean out your grain elevators and fix the grain trucks folks, so before you start looking down your nose and saying: "well, they should move on", think about it a bit first), and whatever inner city welfare recipients we get are usually overwhelmingly those who want to get out of the city and find a nice, quiet place that might offer up at least some sort of job and a more decent place to raise their families (and hopefully get off welfare...boy, did those poor bastards get reamed...and again, somebody has to serve the tables at your restaurants and stock the shelves).  There are of course exceptions that prove the stereotype, but the group I just mentioned have been increasingly forced onto some sort of welfare program; the price of living is getting too high for them, even here...they are the growing percentage -- the people who have been on the borderline.  They are hardly happy about it, and neither am I.  Those are the people I'm concerned about -- and the way I see it, they can either be left in the crap pile they've been shoved into now, or thrown to the wolves....or they can be shepherded through these bad times.

That isn't advocating welfare (far from it!), but it is advocating taking care of your people.  Right now these people have been cruelly set up to stumble and fall -- and to be turned against  (I'm guessing) most of you...if you allow it.

164 Speaking of precious metals, this might cause gold to lose some value, at least in relation to electronics.

Nah, gold doesn't lose value, the dollar floats in relation to it.  Usually down.

165 A fair number of the welfare recipients we have are military families When I was at the Fort Benning School for Wayward Boys, I was astonished at the dumbass things grunts would buy come paycheck day. It's no accident that all the car dealerships, electronics stores, and other impulse-buy emporiums are a mere stone's throw from the main gates. but it is advocating taking care of your people Families do that; husbands and wives do that; churches do that. The government does not do that because they *can't*. They will never care as much about you or your family as you do. But beginning with the New Deal/Great Society bullshit, we've ceded large tracts of our lives to the care and feeding of Uncle Sugar. And we've found that not only does it cost a horrendous sum of money, Uncle Sugar doesn't do a particularly good job at it. Being poor, in this country, is a choice. You can choose not to be poor, but it requires personal sacrifice and dedication. It sounds hard, but...it's a hard old world out there. My shriveled black raisin of a heart ran out of pity for the poor long ago. In a country where the biggest problem facing the "poor" is obesity, I ain't got much pity in my heart for the "poor".

166 Fun, fun, fun, fun

167 I wont be watching the Bamster tonight -- I'm sure there's something more compelling to do instead.

Posted by: Crabby Appleton at March 28, 2011 12:08 PM (6DDE+)

How about a colonoscopy prep? That is much more fun and educational than listening to Obama (pbuh).

168 Monty,

I'm glad you have a lot of fun non-political hobbies that can take your mind off the DOOM!. Otherwise I'd worry about your mental and physical health!

169

How about a colonoscopy prep? That is much more fun and educational than listening to Obama (pbuh).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 28, 2011 12:28 PM (LH6ir)

Wunce again -- I'm intwigued!!!

170

Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at March 28, 2011 11:17 AM (6IReR)

How did you train your unicorn to go on the paper?  I get so frustrated...always on the carpet!

171 Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 12:26 PM (4Pleu)

Don't accept the paradigm (even in jest) that criticism of government largess means that you are a cold-hearted bastard. The biggest, cruelest, cold-hearted bastards in history are the government functionaries who say that they are going to help. As you know, that "help" is a huge push toward permanent poverty and dependence.

We have allowed the left to control the language. Orwell was correct: words have meaning and power. Your belief that government can never care as much as the private sector is the most caring stance one can take. Anything else is just cruel.

172 but it is advocating taking care of your people.  Right now these people have been cruelly set up to stumble and fall -- and to be turned against  (I'm guessing) most of you...if you allow it. unknown jane

Being poor, in this country, is a choice. You can choose not to be poor, but it requires personal sacrifice and dedication. Monty

I am somewhere between you two.  I have about as much sympathy as Monty, yet the more knowledgeable I get, particularly with monetary policy, I can see Jane's point.  The virtual straight up production of the money supply is having a devastating effect on the personal finances of the middle class and poor.  Someone of low skills can only work 24 hours a day, if that can't keep up with inflation, there is no zone that is safe.

173 The Medicare statute provides that only individuals who are “entitled” to Social Security are “entitled” to Medicare.

Logic fail.
Since the logical term "only" is used you can not assume all inclusiveness. If I have a group of blue marbles and red marbles and some of the marbles have cracks and some do not. If I say only the blue marbles can have cracks, it does not imply all blue marbles are cracked.

Simple logic A implies B, does not imply by extension B implies A so:

A implies B where A is "entitled to medicare" and B is "entitled to social security" does not mean necessarily that given B "entitled to social security"

If this decision stands it will be one of the most horrendous examples of the legal raping of the English language, where the legal definition of a word (entitlement) no longer reasonably or even remotely resembles the commonly understood definition of that same word. It is full on Orwellian

where War = Peace Kinetic Military Operation
and Slavery = Freedom Entitlement.
and 2 + 2 = 5

174 "My people" are taken care of. By ME. "My people" either came from my loins, or are on a first-name basis with my loins. Those who are not "my people" fall under the category of "other people." My responsibilities to Other People end with my taxes and charitable contributions. Beyond that, it's shakin' time. Get the fuck off my leg, because I'm not downgrading My People's lifestyle so you can continue to keep living in the same places and making the same choices that keep you poor. There's nothing noble about being poor or "getting by." I've done that, it sucks and Fuck That. If living on the ragged edge of poverty is what you aspire to, then screw off. I have no sympathy. People are willing to ask for help as long as it's money. If it's help in the form of, "This is how YOU can help YOURSELF," then it's cruel, heartless, blase. Giving money to the poor is a waste.

175 In a country where the biggest problem facing the "poor" is obesity, I ain't got much pity in my heart for the "poor".

Posted by: Monty at March 28, 2011 12:26 PM (4Pleu)

Don't you get a kick out of the libtard media who blame that on being poor. They try to claim that "good" food is more expensive so the poor can't buy it and are forced to eat at the junk food emporiums every day.

I guess that is logical for them though since they say globull warming causes record cold and blizzards as well.

176 If this decision stands it will be one of the most horrendous examples of the legal raping of the English language, where the legal definition of a word (entitlement) no longer reasonably or even remotely resembles the commonly understood definition of that same word. It is full on Orwellian

where War = Peace Kinetic Military Operation
and Slavery = Freedom Entitlement.
and 2 + 2 = 5

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 28, 2011 12:39 PM (0q2P7)

 

You're absolutely right.  We have been witnessing the writing of Orwell's 1984 into our government.  It's under the rubric of "political correctness" and beyond into national policy.  It's going to take a long time to unravel this stinking pile of rotting intestines if it can be done at all.  I'm of the opinion of some here to just let it all burn down and then start over again.   

177 Clearly the vast opaque cloud of Japanese plutonium spreading over North America is responsible for the epidemic of obese poverty. When will the government extend a compassionate hand to the little guy?

178 A large part of our problem is that we've defined "poor" down a truly ludicrous level. In every age of human history, "poor" meant that you and/or your family were in dire danger of starvation or hypothermia because you had no place to lay your head. Now? "Poor" means you only have one car, or have to choose between a new cellphone or broadband internet. We have very few authentically "poor" people in America. I aver that our "poor" population is around 5% (and that's using a very generous definition of "poor"). Yet the New Deal/Great Society government has encapsulated 40% or more of our entire population as "poor", and that's both ludicrous and monstrous. If you have a cell phone, cable TV, a car, and enough food to get fat off of, you're not poor. Period.

179 CDR M, We had an opportunity to get into the payday loan business. It would have been a good return, but we decided we don't choose to prey on people just for a good ROI. We also had a chance to buy a titty bar, but I said no because I didn't want my wife ruining our strippers with bullshit dreams of college or family - so I told her if she can't take it seriously, we're not doing it.

180 'The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect. Newspeak is Ingsoc and Ingsoc is Newspeak,' he added with a sort of mystical satisfaction. 'Has it ever occurred to you, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?' --1984

181 A large part of our problem is that we've defined "poor" down a truly ludicrous level. In every age of human history, "poor" meant that you and/or your family were in dire danger of starvation or hypothermia because you had no place to lay your head. Now? "Poor" means you only have one car, or have to choose between a new cellphone or broadband internet. Never, ever forget this.

182 CDR M: My drill was a Reserve guy who in his "day job" was a banker. He busted our nuts on financial stuff during our (har har har) "free time". He told all the young guys at E-1 to E-3 to live in the barracks if they weren't married and eat in the DFAC -- they'd save tons of money even on the low wage an E-1 makes. He also showed them how to get into the savings plan, and how much they'd save if they put just 5% of their paycheck away every month. I think for a lot of those kids, that financial boot-camp did them more good than the military boot-camp.

183 We also had a chance to buy a titty bar, but I said no because I didn't want my wife ruining our strippers with bullshit dreams of college or family - so I told her if she can't take it seriously, we're not doing it. You're a cruel master. Cruel, but fair.

184 We also had a chance to buy a titty bar, but I said no because I didn't want my wife ruining our strippers with bullshit dreams of college or family - so I told her if she can't take it seriously, we're not doing it.

You're a cruel master. Cruel, but fair.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 28, 2011 12:56 PM (AZGON)

 

I'm not quite sure where the cruelty lies here. 

185 My car is but 4 years old. I love it and will drive it until the desert heat takes it from me. Just put tnew tires on it and it rides like the day if came off the show room floor. It's a Honda......I figure to have it about 10 more years.

186

191 That is exactly what I'm talking about!  That problem is already here, and it's getting worse (I'm not too proud to admit -- my family is now the new borderline...and I've always considered us to be doing pretty ok...if we're the new "just above welfare and just above the tax line", then things are getting very, very bad).

This has been a long time coming...and I see people being herded into very extremist stances that don't benefit anyone -- and yeah, quite a few of you are going right along with it.  That usually doesn't end well.  The time for talking about the reactionary stuff is over -- it's just the same old, same old, and gets nowhere.

Which leads me to you Jeff -- have fun with that...I think you'll find it's kinda hard to protect your family when you're very outnumbered (unless you've got the kinda cash Soros does, in which case good for you).  Same with the tough talk and the moving out of country talk: unless you are a billionaire (at least), you aren't going to escape this for long -- money isn't going to save anybody this time around, savings will come to naught, possessions too.  This is already global, and everybody is going to get the haircut.  Thinking otherwise is just wishful thinking now.

 

187 And answer me this Monty -- yeah, right now the poor are not so poor in this country.  What happens when they do become really, truly poor?  Because that's probably coming too; that's the thing that is probably staring everyone in the face -- and yeah, it's not a good vision.

188 What happens when they do become really, truly poor? Your question implies the notion that we can do something about it, whatever it is. The poor will always be with us, as the Apostle Matthew pointed out. In a world of varying skills and abilities and fortunes, many people will end up poor -- it's just life. It's a conceit of the modern world that we can somehow make poverty disappear: we can't, and we've pissed away trillions of dollars establishing that fact. Telling a national government that "abolishing poverty" is a priority is to both doom it to failure and to squander a huge amount of money in the attempt. If you're serious about the question, then my advice is "Don't depend on the government to fix things, or to provide for the necessaries of life". If you're concerned about the poor, then help out the poor yourself. I do that by donating to my church and helping friends who are down on their luck. (A hand out is what you get from the government; a hand up is what you get from a friend.) If the government by some miracle gets its head out of its collective ass, so much the better; but I'm not counting on it. So my advice is for every person to do what je can to limit -- not increase -- his dependence on the government. Save your own money, take care of your health, and care for your own family. Be nice to your family and cultivate good friends who will stand by you in bad times (because Uncle Sugar sure as hell won't do it). In other words: do what everyone in this country did prior to 1930 or so.

189 OK, it's official. Monty is now my front-running choice for President.

190

The poor will always be with us, as the Apostle Matthew pointed out. In a world of varying skills and abilities and fortunes, many people will end up poor -- it's just life.

Moreover, I would argue (and in some venues, have argued) that no one in the U.S. is in fact poor. By "poor" I mean lacking food, clothing, or shelter; I don't mean lacking premium cable, designer sneaks, or a new car. Something like 98+% of the households in America own color TVs. I would argue that anyone who owns a color TV is not poor, i.e., not lacking in life's necessities.

Recently a charity came to our door collecting to "fight hunger in America." Hunger? WTF? We have an obesity problem, and it's most severe among ... the poorest!

Their website (CanningHunger.org) featured photos of people they'd "helped." Most of them weighed about 300 lbs. (Seriously. I thought I'd wandered onto the Jenny Craig "before" photos.) I sent them a comment pointing that out, and how it undercut their message. Their response? They got rid of the testimonials featuring the wide-rides. True story.

The fact is that in absolute terms, everyone in America is wealthy. Very wealthy, by the standards of the Third World, where I've traveled extensively. Indoor plumbing, central heating and air, color TVs, cell phones, cars? They wish.

The problem is that Americans in general (and leftards in particular) apply a relative standard. It's not whether they have enough to live comfortably; it's that other people have more. Goddamnit, I can't keep pace with Bill Gates! Something ought to be done!

191 we're just going to ignore this

192 The poor will always be with us, as the Apostle Matthew pointed out. Actually it was Jesus who said this; the Apostle Matthew relates it in his Gospel. (Matthew 26:11: "The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.")

193 Yeah, our "poor" should be given a trip to southeast asia where a bowl of rice a day is a luxury. What we consider poor here (see U.S. gov definition) would be middle class in Europe and rich in most of asia.

194

209 That's not what I asked...what if they do get to the point where a bowl of rice is a luxury?  And it was not a philosophical question -- it was a pragmatic one...what do you do?  I ask, because I don't think that people in that position stay that way without a certain amount of protest (and this is being born out, isn't it?).

The very, very wealthy can always lock themselves away from it, hire private armies.  I suppose that could be an answer (for some), but it doesn't seem to work out too well for the majority, and it's been known to backfire anyway.

Certainly doesn't do a very good thing for a free country of laws, so if your true goal is to keep that, then probably need to find a different solution.

195 That's not what I asked...what if they do get to the point where a bowl of rice is a luxury? I'll worry about it if and when it happens. Frankly, that situation has *never* pertained in the United States, right from our colonial days. (Well, maybe in the early days of Jamestown starvation was a real danger, but never afterward.) People have starved to death since then, yes, but usually as a result of criminally negligent behavior on the part of others. (Children, old people, the mentally ill.) I really cannot envision a future when an able-bodied American citizen can starve to death. Even if everything goes totally to shit we can still easily feed ourselves. I'll repeat: in a land where obesity (and Type II diabetes) is the main health problem faced by the "poor", this isn't even a remote concern.

196

That's not what I asked...what if they do get to the point where a bowl of rice is a luxury? 

And what happens if we evolve a second head? (Third head, in the case of guys.) I toss and turn every night thinking about that, and the impact it will have on barbers and hat manufacturers.

 

197

How about angry kitteh?

198 I'll worry about it if and when it happens. Frankly, that situation has *never* pertained in the United States, right from our colonial days. (Well, maybe in the early days of Jamestown starvation was a real danger, but never afterward.)

The pilgrims were starving at Plymouth when they were trying the communal farming thing.  After everyone got their own plot to work, Thanksgiving!

199 Jane, this is late, but it's not "tough talk." I did move out of the country. I am not a billionaire, but like Arthur, "I wish I had a dime for every dime I have." I've been poor. I know what it takes to survive and I know how to get out of being poor again, if necessary. I have a robust network of colleagues and friends that I support and can rely on support that I have cultivated over the years. It's part of leaving the poor mentality behind. If you're surrounded by nothing but people with poor mentalities, it is little wonder that you can't understand a thing I'm trying to say to you. Keep doing the same things and you'll keep getting the same results. For me, it's not enough to be Good People. You need to be that, anyway. You also need to be successful. Fuck surviving and "getting by.". I've done that and I don't want that for my Master Race. I want us to thrive.

200 Thanks for the answer. I personally don't have a lot of debt and have always made every payment on the house, car, etc. My credit is impeccable. I guess I just worry that it won't mean squat when we have the great reset. All the folks who mortgaged to the hilt to buy boats, tits, etc will still get to keep their goodies and be in the same boat as the rest of us.

201

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