1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Now to actually read the post...

2 so the unemployment numbers rose unexpectedly. Who would have thunk it ?

3

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - New U.S. jobless claims rose unexpectedly last week, further evidence of a weak labor market just hours before President Barack Obama delivers a major address to Congress on the issue.

 

Barry rescue us from all of this unexpected news!

4 Why is the performance of school kids in Texas Perry's fault, but not Obama's... after all, Obama IS President of the WHOLE country, right? Can Obama show that spending one silver dime more on education improved ANYONE's school performance?

5 President Obama:A trifecta of ineptitude

Tsk. Tsk. We all know it should read: President Obama: A Stuttering Clusterf*ck of a Miserable Failure.

Didn't you get your updated AoSHQ Style Book?

6 That face... reminds me of a truly bitch supervisor I once had. BBBRRRR!!!!!!!!

7 Bringing this over from the headlines thread. 

The first sentence in this Reuters story is just... It's almost self-parody at this point.

New jobless claims rise to 414,000 last week

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - New U.S. jobless claims rose unexpectedly last week, further evidence of a weak labor market just hours before President Barack Obama delivers a major address to Congress on the issue.

Applications for unemployment benefits rose to 414,000 in the week ending September 3 from an upwardly revised 412,000 the prior week, the Labor Department said on Thursday. Wall Street analysts had been looking for a dip to 405,000...

8 I don't see Ace posting much about Perry's performance last night. Not to defend it, not to critique it... not much at all. I can only assume that shortly after the debate, poor Ace descended into a Val-u-rite induced stupor of epic proportions. He may well wake up in an empty hot tub later this afternoon, with a naked dead hobo next to him.

9 You know what the people who actually build power-plants for a living call Solar Plants?  Toys.

My uncle works for an engineering company that does just that, and they recently built a solar plant in Florida, of all places.  (As he said: "Hey, they're paying us.")  He agrees that it'll never amount to anything, but he was excited as all heck about the problems they had to solve (things like getting the mirrors to rotate and collapse in less than a minute in case of a hurricane) and how they did so.

Yeah he's a geek.

10 Dammmmn....I was expecting some cute lil kitteh.  That's just cruel Monty....

11 has anyone heard from Vic, I hope he wasn't watching Perry at the debate last night while recovering at the hospital.

12

(Bloomberg) Claims for U.S. unemployment benefits rose last week, a sign the labor market is struggling to gain traction more than two years after the recession ended.

Companies are stepping up the pace of firings, raising the risk that consumer spending will slow further. Job growth stagnated last month and the unemployment rate was unchanged at 9.1 percent, the Labor Department reported last week.

 

It's a hell of a recovery we've got. I'd hate to see what a depression would look like

13 has anyone heard from Vic, I hope he wasn't watching Perry at the debate last night while recovering at the hospital.

Posted by: Ben at September 08, 2011 08:58 AM (wuv1c)

He came back yesterday and running on all cylinders this morning on the Headline thread.

14 mwr they alway have to adjust them upward....they count on us not paying attention to the increase.....i wonder if they thought about overstating them and adjusting downward just so it appeared like things weren't so bad.......

15

It's a hell of a recovery we've got. I'd hate to see what a depression would look like

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 08, 2011 08:58 AM (1Jaio)

The media would somehow spin it as a good thing.  You know they would.

"The labor market saw an unexpected uptick in new hiring last month as businesses scrambled to hire workers to fill vacancies left by employees who committed suicide due to financial hardship..."

16 On that Cowen piece: I think we need to point out that when an actual window is broken by a vandal, the shop owner won't just have to take that money from some other capital investment he/she was going to make, they'll also keep aside some additional resources to replace the window next time.  Whether that means they're spending money on insurance, or just keeping some of their cash "on hand" instead of spending it- in either case that's actually a net decrease for the economy.

17 they alway have to adjust them upward....they count on us not paying attention to the increase.....i wonder if they thought about overstating them and adjusting downward just so it appeared like things weren't so bad.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:00 AM (eOXTH)

Somehow I think that's what they've BEEN doing, but then they keep getting kicked in the crotch by the fact that the numbers come out even worse than they'd allowed for them to be. 

18 and in the last two months we actually gave our guys raises.....overtime options....small bonuses...and hired 4 new guys.......any of you people looking for jobs....i know it's not glamourous but go to the temp agencies....they have jobs to fill at small businesses that want to hire but won't hire full time until this bum is out of office or they are sure you are not going to be some huge risk to them..........

19 "He agrees that it'll never amount to anything, but he was excited as all heck about the problems they had to solve. . . " Geek-leaning types need to be really careful about this. I have seen hardcore conservatives get sidetracked on superficially beautiful solutions like carbon credits and quickly lose sight of the fact that the whole damned thing is a scam.

20 Wonder what the IMPOTUS will say tonight about the jobs???

21 I hope the Republicans laugh out loud when he says we are in a slow recovery, that would be a youtube moment.

22 Wonder what the IMPOTUS will say tonight about the jobs???

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at September 08, 2011 09:05 AM (KwL7a)

 

It's all Bush's/the Republican's/the Tea Party's/the European debt crisis'/the weather's fault. He would have created a gazillion new jobs if all of these things didn't conspire to stop him

23 Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 08, 2011 09:04 AM (cbyrC)

Most of what I know about the absurdity of "green energy" comes from listening to my Uncle.  He knows it's crap, but no one is building regular power-plants right now.  They're building wind-farms (something his company can't do) and solar farms (something they can) and (very, very rarely) nuclear plants (something else they can do).  So he does what work there is.

He may actually be one of the last guys still around who understands how a nuclear plant works.

Oddly enough, he trained as a fluid engineer, not an electrical engineer.

24 He agrees that it'll never amount to anything, but he was excited as all heck about the problems they had to solve (things like getting the mirrors to rotate and collapse in less than a minute in case of a hurricane) and how they did so.

Yeah he's a geek.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 08, 2011 08:57 AM (8y9MW)

That sounds awesome though.  That's the best part of any job, IMO -- finding solutions to unexpected problems.  Makes it a heck of a lot more interesting!

Speaking of which, the next great enterprise an entrepreneur needs to undertake is figuring out how to get the water from flooded region -- like where my sister lives in Hershey, PA -- to drought-plagued, fire-prone areas like Texas, in a quick, cost effective manner.  There's got to be a way. 

25 I wonder if he will attack SCOTUS again? I wonder if he will chastise congress? There is one thing I know he won't do. Take responsibility.

26 We'll all be saved when Ron Paul is elected president and the economy is pulled back from the brink by turning off the AC in our troops' tents.

27 Obama's speech? As I said yesterday, more useless rhetoric full of sound and signifying NOTHING.

We know how much is rhetoric worth here. Perry called him a liar yesterday. That should be the highpoint of the debate.

28

It's all Bush's/the Republican's/the Tea Party's/the European debt crisis'/the weather's fault. He would have created a gazillion new jobs if all of these things didn't conspire to stop him

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 08, 2011 09:10 AM (1Jaio)

You left out the "Arab Spring" and the Japanese earthquake and tsunami.

29 Perry called him a liar yesterday. I was shocked that no one was upset by that? It's like, Yeah, we know.

30

Are you ready for some Pre-FOOTBALL Presidential speeches!?

I'm looking forward to more talk about infrastructure which has to rank up there with 'green jobs' in terms of things that sound amazingly wonderful but really just amounts to wasting billions. The Republicans should start demanding to know exactly what the Democrats want to build and how any of that building is going to lead to a massive explosion in the local economies.

America already has everything it needs in terms of infrastructure if you're talking roads and bridges. Everyplace in America can build, grow and ship goods from point A to point B. There's no roads you can build that are suddenly going to cause a massive economic boom because several places had no way to transport their goods out of their area. This isn't the 1900's. War hasn't decimated the country. Everything's built.

And despite their condition, there are no schools, bridges, government building, airports or anything else that they can build that will result in the affected local area suddenly booming because they just happened to be missing gold-plated schools, rainbow bridges, shiny new buildings and giant airports.

That's just been ticking me off lately. Especially since I'm about to go running and my small town is replacing curbs in several areas. That always makes me think of all of the curbs the US got out of the last $800 billion in infrastructue.

Everyone have a good day.

And welcome back Vic. I hope you're doing alright.

31 DOOM Kitteh is pissed that you shaved his eyebrows.

32 As a Department of Energy (DOE) spokesperson said, “the project that we supported succeeded.

If I recall correctly they have already built a huge federal and State subsidized solar project in Southern CA and the feed lines from it have been held up by the ec-commie radicals by court action.

WTF do they need to throw more money into another one until they get the last one out of court?

33

I mentioned this last night but am enamored of my own yammering so I'll repeat it here - why is it beyond the pale to mention the truth that Social Security will run out of money, what with the scaring of the old folks and all, but it's just freaking peachy to ignore the fact that my money is being stolen from me?  Why are my concerns of lesser value?

Also I've been pondering how to discuss the problems attendant to generational demographic distributions without seeming to attack those in that group.  Look, I understand why those Boomes who are personally responsible do not like being attacked for the decisions of the rest.  But the fact remains that, in the aggregate, the aging of the Boomers is presenting numerous problems.  It's not generational warfare to point this out.

34 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at September 08, 2011 09:11 AM (4df7R)

I've already thought of one.  Heck, the Romans thought of it.  It'll never fly ("environmental concerns" and setup cost) but it would work.  They're called "Aqueducts" and they're used to take water from one place to some other place.  Cool, huh?

More seriously, I've thought about this a lot over the years (I live in Texas, thinking about water is something we do a lot) and what you'd need is a big series of reservoirs, aqueducts, pumping stations, etc.  But then you could get water from anywhere to anywhere without much problem.

Of course, this would cost (way low-balling) billions of dollars.  But it would also create a lot of employment, and solve an actual problem.

Maybe I can sell the idea to T. Boone Pickins.

35 Bammer might be moving out of Jimmy Carter country and into Herbert Hoover-ville if things don't pick up soon.

Can't really blame the depression 1.0 on Hoover. Its was till a recession and downturn when he left office. It took commie FDR to make into a long term world-wide collapse.

36 Bammer's cadre don't just suck at Keynesianism;

Bammer's team of idiots suck at everything except advancing communism. Stuttering CF et al......

37 why is it beyond the pale to mention the truth that Social Security will run out of money, what with the scaring of the old folks and all, but it's just freaking peachy to ignore the fact that my money is being stolen from me?  Why are my concerns of lesser value?

Because our generation doesn't vote in the same numbers as the Boomers.

Yes.  Really.

In my more cynical moments, I think the Republic was doomed the moment the Federal Government started doing anything resembling welfare.

38 Posted by: Vic is back at September 08, 2011 09:16 AM (M9Ie6)

Vic, my brother, it's good to see you back. I hope you're on the mend!

39 Can't really blame the depression 1.0 on Hoover. Its was till a recession and downturn when he left office. It took commie FDR to make into a long term world-wide collapse.

Except that he's (Hoover) the one who started the big government intervention programs rolling.  FDR just picked up where he left off.

It's entirely possible that the economy would have already been recovering by the time FDR took office (thus blunting his plan to turn the US into a Socialist State) if Hoover had just let things take their course, as his predecessors had done.

40 From the Monty link:

Many baby boomers don't plan to leave their children an inheritance.

Let's just pray we can leave them an intact country. Even that ain't looking so good right now.

41 Good to see you back, Vic. You're in my thoughts and prayers, you moron.

42 alex exactly......facts are facts and just because we don't like them doesn't make them wrong.....

43 Let's just pray we can leave them an intact country. Even that ain't looking so good right now.

It's looking less and less likely.

Maybe what the Boomers could do to secure their legacy is to teach us those things they thought we'd never need to know because of "progress."  Things like sewing, and (those who know) farming.

44

Hi Vic!  I'm very glad you're back.

As far as the Boomers not leaving an inheritance, I find it hard to get upset about that mainly because I'd far rather have my parents enjoy themselves now then leave me anything.  Not that my family is rich, far from it, but my parents did save and plan and I want them to enjoy themselves while they still can.  If that means I don't get anything, fine, they have gone far above and beyond in helping me right now. 

 

45 @23 AllenG & @24 MWR To be clear: I was not in any way denigrating the art and work that goes into solving problems. My warning is that when somebody hands you a toy, stay conscious that its real purpose might be to divert your attention.

46 has anyone heard from Vic, I hope he wasn't watching Perry at the debate last night while recovering at the hospital.

Posted by: Ben at September 08, 2011 08:58 AM (wuv1c)

Hey Ben, I'm back. And I didn't watch too much TV even after a lot of recovery. The "pillow speaker/nurse call" device I had rattled like a tin can with a rock in it and you could barely understand what was coming out.

47

I've already thought of one.  Heck, the Romans thought of it.  It'll never fly ("environmental concerns" and setup cost) but it would work.  They're called "Aqueducts" and they're used to take water from one place to some other place.  Cool, huh?

I've pondered the aqueduct idea myself.  Great minds and all that.    Though that would lead to a whole bunch of criss-crossing channels and/or pipelines all over the place, which would be expensive (as you mentioned) and prone to damage from natural disasters like tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, blah, blah.  But I'm sure smart people with civil engineering-style brains could figure out how to make it work.  Then all you'd need to do is put a very large ballgag on the EPA - possibly lock the entire agency in a root cellar somewhere - and build it. 

That's what really, seriously annoys me about the left's adoration of "infrastructure" projects, and 'shovel ready" jobs.  Thanks to the envirowhackos, I'd say at least half if not more of the major building projects of decades past would never be built today.  The Hoover Dam?  GIVE ME A BREAK, RACHEL MADDOW.

48 It's not generational warfare to point this out.

No...but the Democrats will do all they can to make it so. This whole "don't scare seniors" malarkey is self-defeating, because it's not like there will be a blissful future time when there are no old people to scare (unless biotechnology makes some amazing strides in the coming years). What these "don't scare granny!" people are really saying is that they want to hold off any changes until the next crop of old folks (i.e., you and me and the rest of the post-Boomer demographic) come along. The Boomers must be protected until they shuffle off this mortal coil; then the world can go to hell for all they care.

Look, this is almost inevitable -- most of our politicians are from the Baby Boom era, so it's not surprising that they have a bit of myopia on the entitlement issue. The concerns of the Boomers are their concerns; they share a common culture and history. We young 'uns don't relate in the same way.

But this dynamic is changing as the new guard takes over from the old guard, especially in the House of Representatives. The new Reps in their 30's and 40's aren't going to have the gauzy, romantic attachment to SS and Medicare that their elders do -- we've known for decades that these programs are doomed, and we have no intention of going broke trying to keep them solvent.

49 As far as the Boomers not leaving an inheritance, I find it hard to get upset about that mainly because I'd far rather have my parents enjoy themselves now then leave me anything.  Not that my family is rich, far from it, but my parents did save and plan and I want them to enjoy themselves while they still can.

The world has changed significantly.  It is now not just possible, but expected, that a person can gain enough wealth in their own lifetime to enjoy their eld.  That wasn't always the case.

I hope to leave my children an inheritance.  I don't mind if my parents don't leave me one.

50 Keynesianism is a lot like communism. It's always, they didn't do it right, the wrong people were in charge. This time it's totally different, this time we'll get it right and it'll work.

51 There is much to learn from the elders, things that used to be passed down and taught as a matter of fact.
These things just might come in handy in the near future.
 I visited my uncle last year and quizzed him on the depression years as much as I could.
I am glad I did because he passed away this summer.
We have lost much of who we are and where we came from, its really a shame.

52 To be clear: I was not in any way denigrating the art and work that goes into solving problems. My warning is that when somebody hands you a toy, stay conscious that its real purpose might be to divert your attention.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 08, 2011 09:24 AM (cbyrC)

The thought never crossed my mind that you were denigrating anything, FTL.    You're right.  Anyone who's ever dealth with a screaming toddler knows that toys are powerful tools.

53 Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at September 08, 2011 09:04 AM (cbyrC)
This is why a life cycle cost-benefit analysis should be attempted for any such green project.  I can make almost any project look like a winner if I conveniently don't consider the most problematic side effects (like mercury residue in landfills from CFLs leaching into the water table).
Engineers are good at attacking immediate problems, and their enthusiasm (and desire fro a paycheck) leads them to stay focused on the short term job.  It would be great if we had more good analyses of the long term problems with green solutions.

54 44, alexthechick at September 08, 2011 09:22 AM When my Dad died, not only did they leave me nothing, but I paid to bury him. He left my Mom in abject poverty and being an only child, it was all on me. That being said, I have no ill will toward anyone that receives a windfall from their parents hard work, but to have expectations of it? To bitch about not getting anything? Cry me a river.

55 "kept us hoping and hoping, during 40 years, and forsook us at last". mark twain when i think of inheritance and now social security.....i think of this quote.......and i've taught it to my kids....don't pin your hopes on it.......

56

>>>Well...not for savers so much because they'd kind of take it in the shorts, and it'd be hard on the old folks who live on fixed incomes, but screw those geezers. I'm not into rewarding prudence and responsibility.

I heard this lame-ass whine from prunos for years. They had every opportunity to buy long-term, non-callable bonds that would still be knocking out 7% annually but were too damned scared. "I don't want to tie my money up for that long!" they moped.

Well blow me, geezer. If you needed your money you could have sold the bond and made a sack of dough. Or you could have willed it to your kids or a charity. But no, you bought 6 month CD's and now you have to pay them to keep your money. Feck off, Chester, no sympathy here.

57 Keynesianism is a lot like communism. It's always, they didn't do it right, the wrong people were in charge. This time it's totally different, this time we'll get it right and it'll work.

Keynesianism is a lot like communism.  They both take money away from those who have it, and give it people who don't.

Even if Keynes' ideas worked (something of which we've seen 0 evidence), they would be immoral (at best), because they steal from the productive in an attempt to goad the unproductive into productivity.

58

Allen G

Of course, this would cost (way low-balling) billions of dollars. But it would also create a lot of employment, and solve an actual problem.

I have been thinking about the same thing and believe we could use existing pipeline ROW's to get the water from where it is to where to isn't.

It would be on the scale of the big inch projects in WW 2

59 Vic, my brother, it's good to see you back. I hope you're on the mend!

Posted by: Monty at September 08, 2011 09:19 AM (/0a60)

Thanks Monty. I really appreciate all the kind words, thoughts, and prayers from all the Morons. But ya'll are going to mess me up. I'll lose my man card if I go out with my M1 Garrand (that I don't have) to run the punks off my lawn with teary eyes.

60

Because our generation doesn't vote in the same numbers as the Boomers.

Yes.  Really.

I know and now we're back to facts being a stone cold bitch.  Hmm, now that I think about it, even if we voted in the same percentage, we still wouldn't win due to the volume difference.

Also to pick up on the going to a temp service thing, I got my current job through a temp to perm placement.  It's actually a fairly decent way to work it since it gives both sides a chance to see if it's going to be a good fit. 

RE:  the not being able to do things topic:  I am very grateful that I went through 4H and that my mother is a farm girl.  Why?  Because, if pressed, I can sew and cooking and can my own goods and I have at least some understanding of how to build a basic shelter.  It was simply assumed when I was growing up that everyone, boy or girl, would know how to take care of themselves if, God forbid, you got lost in the woods.

I wish I knew more about plumbing and cars, though from what I understand most post mid-80's vehicles are so electronics dependent you really can't do your own major repairs.  But still.  Being able to take care of yourself is a huge thing.  I read Shopcraft as Soulcraft and while I think the argument is a bit overstated, there is much to be said for the basic satisfaction of looking at something and going "I made that."

61 That's what really, seriously annoys me about the left's adoration of "infrastructure" projects, and 'shovel ready" jobs.  Thanks to the envirowhackos, I'd say at least half if not more of the major building projects of decades past would never be built today.

Indeed. Just look at the problems the eco-loons are causing with the Keystone XL pipeline for the latest example.

62 there was an interesting exchange between rick and tom friedman from the NY slimes this morning.  video isn't up yet.

checked ol tom on wiki, hope he enjoys his 11.400 square foot bethesda mansion on only 7 and a half acres, in close proximity to I 495 and the Bethesda country club, worth a measly $9.3 mil....

I include this information to again bring home the point made on CNBC this morning, ...  there are jobs in DC, housing is booming, there are no problems....so how can they understand the rest of the country?    I mean tom with his three pulitzers couldn't seem to get this point.  but dear God, until I looked at the tv, my friend kept thinking he was richard trumka, really tom and richard could be twins.

beck started his program advising huff poo poo to look up the words "lawyer" and "defamation of character".....

63 OMG!

64 ......remember, you don't listen to beck......idiot

65

4 Why is the performance of school kids in Texas Perry's fault, but not Obama's...

I would have been THRILLED last night if Perry had had the guts to look straight into the camera after that question and say "Well if Obama administraion allowed the INS to actually DO their job Texas wouldn't be awash in anchor babies and illegal immigrants that aren't capable of enough English to actually LEARN anything in the Texas School System."

66 It's entirely possible that the economy would have already been recovering by the time FDR took office (thus blunting his plan to turn the US into a Socialist State) if Hoover had just let things take their course, as his predecessors had done.

If I recall  my read from Amity Shlaes book correctly yes, Hoover did move in, but in a small way. I guess it is debatable how much intervention he would have gone for long term.

But I don't think we would have gotten those huge socialist government programs like SS w/o someone like FDR.

67 64 ......remember, you don't listen to beck......idiot

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:32 AM (eOXTH)

go back and look at the post you conveniently forget the little modifier there "often"

wonder what your agenda really is?

68 I'm a big fan of Lileks' way with words, but

a weightless cipher whose oratorical panache now consists of looking from one teleprompter screen to the other with the enthusiasm of a man watching someone elseÂ’s kids play tennis

just doesn't have the panache of "stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure".

69  Reuters; UNEXPECTEDLY! 

70 Posted by: Velvet Ambition at September 08, 2011 09:30 AM (KwL7a)

I think the best (and probably cheapest) way to do it, would be to set up a system of major reservoirs in the Rockies (also probably the Appalachians, and whatever that mountain range between NV and CA is called).  Then you can use basic hydro-dynamics to let the water just flow to where it's needed.

The hardest part, in my mind, is setting up the valves to be reversible, and yet locked one-way in either specific configuration.  That is, we don't actually want water to be able to flow both ways, but we do want it to be able to flow either way. 

Posted by: alexthechick at September 08, 2011 09:30 AM (VtjlW)

Yep.  Until we just plain outnumber them, politicians will cater to them before they cater to us- never mind that our arguments are the ones that might lead to future prosperity and theirs (in the aggregate) will almost certainly lead to future insolvency.

71 I really sense that Sparky is completely done. Can't put my finger on one turning point, but the zeitgiest is over whelmingly toilette swirl. If he remains on the ticket then look forward to one of the most destructive campaign seasons we have seen since Cold Harbor. I truly believe it will go all ultra-violent. I am pretty sure a Republican candidate will be assassinated for all the "right reasons." The left will not cede defeat peacefully. They will make their ouster as messy, violent and stupid as can be. An envious class of people have no moral constraints, particularly when it involves others property and person. Just sayin.

72 Also I've been pondering how to discuss the problems attendant to generational demographic distributions without seeming to attack those in that group.  I've put together a pamphlet titled, "Why Grandma and Grandpa Have to Die." I find it helps break the tension and it has some really cute cartoons of old folks waving goodbye from their ice floes.

73 "The hardest part, in my mind, is setting up the valves to be reversible, and yet locked one-way in either specific configuration." Check with Vic on that. I seem to recall somebody here talking about how walking to and from school, uphill both ways.

74 50 Keynesianism is a lot like communism. It's always, they didn't do it right, the wrong people were in charge. This time it's totally different, this time we'll get it right and it'll work.

Posted by: Heorot at September 08, 2011 09:26 AM (Nq/UF)

This. 

This is my problem with the dependence on theory in political and academic circles.  Theory is good for starting discussions and for planning, but when the feet hit the pavement, theories become window dressings to reality.  Many things work in theory that, in actual practice, do not work.  Communism sounds great in theory, but in practice the theory encounters the fact that, in any large group of people, SOMEONE is bound to be a greedy bastard who will co-opt power in the commune and be the one who decides how much bread everyone gets rationed that week.  In theory, everyone sharing everything sounds great.  In practice, you get the Soviet Union. 

Constantly trying to take a theoretical blueprint and tattoo it onto physical reality in hopes that "this time it'll work" is the definition of insanity.  It's as silly as using Schroedinger's cat as a blueprint for a formula for immortality.

75 To clarify on the inheritance point, I'm not at all saying that it's a bad thing to try to plan to provide for your heirs, quite the opposite.  Of course it's good to provide, if you can.  It's the entitlement assumption by Gen X that drives me nuts.  No, you do not deserve to have Mommy and Daddy leave you a cool half mil between the house and the investment accounts.  If they do, great!  Gooooo you!  But you don't deserve it due to the awesome accomplishment of being their kid.  No.  Really.  You don't.

76 Check with Vic on that. I seem to recall somebody here talking about how walking to and from school, uphill both ways. Barefoot in the snow, never forget barefoot in the snow.

77 kkkurious maybe you forgot your modifier in your post.....either way......you like to post about beck an awful lot to not a. listen to him ever or b. listen to him often...... idiot..... and btw...why do you look down upon secretaries? military moms? non city folk?

78 I really sense that Sparky is completely done.

I think he is too but lets not start washing each other's junk yet. Given balanced stuff yeah he will lose in a landslide. But with the Democrat/Union machine for GOTV and fraud it will go down to the wire in a lot of purple States.

And in the end it will hinge on the Republican candidate's ability to get their voters to the polls. That is why it is vital to get a candidate who excites the base instead of turning them off.

79 But I don't think we would have gotten those huge socialist government programs like SS w/o someone like FDR.

I don't either, and that's not my argument.

To me, it's like this: By pushing the Federal Government's nose into the private sector (where it had no business), Hoover created greater instability and prevented a relatively quick recovery like the one that had happened just a decade before.  The people who were voting remembered the earlier "panic" and how (relatively) quickly it was over, so they lost confidence in Hoover, and voted in FDR.

Now, Hoover did about the worst thing possible (IMO): He tried intervention, but tried not to bring any notice to it.  That caused the prolonging of the recession in the first place (by the intervention) and allowed FDR to cry for "Government Help!" and push through his socialist agenda (by trying not to bring notice to it).

Had Hoover not intervened at all, he might still have lost the election, but the panic would have been over before FDR could turn it into major societal changes a la the New Deal.

Had Hoover made a big deal about how "Government Cares for You!" and "We're here to help!" then people might have been rather more suspicious of FDR and his efforts might have been blunted that way.

By taking the middle course, Hoover laid the foundation for the Socialist programs that FDR enacted.

80 alex i think it's good to provide for your heirs too.....it's not a healthy thing to let your heirs know....they can pin their futures on money that might not be there........

81 "I truly believe it will go all ultra-violent." There is a pretty good chance that it doesn't. The entrenched lefty leadership is in it for the long haul, and I suspect they know that if the goose dies, the golden eggs stop coming. They will let Obama carry all their sins away in a lonely defeat in 2012. Even Bo the dog will piss on his leg. If Obama refuses to go quietly, they will stop suppressing the scandals.

82
get married, stay married

Yeah, about that...if you don't stay married, the male moron might as well hand her half of everything, and if there's child support involved, half of everything else. And that will likely include your 401K or equivalent.

Looking at generic trends, I like my chances of getting money out of Social Security better than my odds of staying married (if I were dumb enough to get married in the first place).

83 and btw...why do you look down upon secretaries? military moms? non city folk?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:41 AM (eOXTH)

again, i urge you to take reading comprehension.  it will do you a world of good.

84

Barefoot in the snow, never forget barefoot in the snow.

While using dialup.  AOL dialup. 

85 phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:43 AM That's a great point. It is also distressing how some of these parents allow children that level of information on household finances. I had no Idea about my parents Financial situation. For good or bad, It was none of my damn business.

86 Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at September 08, 2011 09:44 AM (1hM1d)

You know, all it takes to stay married is commitment (on both sides) and the realization that "being in love" is not the same thing as your promise to "Love, honor and cherish."

Amazingly, the vast majority of the human race was able to get married and stay married for a couple of millennia at least.

87 alexthechick at September 08, 2011 09:45 AM LOL

88 But you don't deserve (an inheritance) due to the awesome accomplishment of being (someone's) kid.  No.  Really.  You don't.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 08, 2011 09:40 AM (VtjlW)

OMG this.  I would like this printed on a billboard on every major highway up and down the east and west coasts.  Please.  PLEASE.  With a special pamphlet version sent to the Kennedy Compound in Massachusetts that includes the extended caveat, "You don't deserve an inheritance or a political career due to the awesome accomplishment of being born a g-ddamn Kennedy."

89

78 I really sense that Sparky is completely done.

I think he is too but lets not start washing each other's junk yet. Given balanced stuff yeah he will lose in a landslide. But with the Democrat/Union machine for GOTV and fraud it will go down to the wire in a lot of purple States.

And in the end it will hinge on the Republican candidate's ability to get their voters to the polls. That is why it is vital to get a candidate who excites the base instead of turning them off.

Vic, I'm more concerned with the fallout of his failed re-election socially, culturally and politically. His incompetence is only surpassed by his racism and classism. Envy is an bitch to kill and Sparky is nothing more than envy on steroids. Those who follow him are as narcissitic as he and will resort to violence when cornered by reality.

90 Check with Vic on that. I seem to recall somebody here talking about how walking to and from school, uphill both ways.

I didn't understand what she was getting at there with that. A check valve is designed to limit flow in one direction. I have seen what is known as a "stop check", in which the check valve can be held open and then slammed shot and used as a stop valve until such time as it need to be reopened (with no flow head).

But if you wish to have a check valve arrangement with the ability to reverse flow you would have to in a parallel line around the check valve isolated by remote controlled valves with a pump to get it back uphill.

And yes, I did have to walk back and forth to school in the snow barefoot and uphill in both directions while carrying by lunch rolled up in the neighbor's discarded newspaper.

91 is comprehension your new word? i saw someone posted it to you and you now regurgitate it....like you regurgitate what you hear on talk radio...original thinking much? no, they don't teach that in ivy league schools....group think! kurious want a cracker? parrot

92 "You don't deserve an inheritance or a political career due to the awesome accomplishment of being born a g-ddamn Kennedy." Hasn't Karma killed most of them off?

93 Yeah, about that...if you don't stay married, the male moron might as well hand her half of everything, and if there's child support involved, half of everything else. And that will likely include your 401K or equivalent.

Looking at generic trends, I like my chances of getting money out of Social Security better than my odds of staying married (if I were dumb enough to get married in the first place).

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at September 08, 2011 09:44 AM (1hM1d)

You can't determine your individual chances of getting divorced based on the population as a whole.  There are a lot of people out there who should have never gotten married in the first place.  Too young, too immature, just not the marrying type.  Only you know yourself well enough to know whether you should get married, but don't base that on what everyone else does. 

94 Why the Nancy pic in the sidebar? What did we do to deserve such cruel treatment?

95 Glenn is surprised that trolls have found The Blaze.

96 Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 08, 2011 09:46 AM (ZDUD4)

My thought on that is "It depends on the situation."

When I was a kid, I had no idea of our financial situation- which I view as a good thing.

Now, I have at least some knowledge of my parents' situation (in debt, but income is just beating outgo.  If they'd budget and streamline their expenses, they'd be fine).

When they're too old to handle their own affairs (probably 10 - 20 years, sadly), I'll need to know their situation in full, simply because I'm the one most likely to be taking care of that for them.

All Gen X'ers are in that 2nd position, and many of them are already in the 3rd.  It's not unreasonable to expect your grown children to have at least some idea of your financial situation.

97 My morning constitutional was "unexpectedly" productive....

gotta love the newsies.

48 Monty,

EXACTLY, the Republican who grabs a hold of the seniors in high school with the young republicans targeting them with precise data on the nature and flaws in social security and the very good reasons for private accounts on at least a portion of it will be President within 4 cycles.

The math is brutal, direct, and the morality of the program is inarguably flawed.

"I paid in and I is owed so it stays" does not justify the grift vs rate of return or justify the coercive and fraudulent nature of the program.

98
And yes, I did have to walk back and forth to school in the snow barefoot and uphill in both directions while carrying by lunch rolled up in the neighbor's discarded newspaper.

Posted by: Vic is back

 

You had lunch!?! We were lucky to eat the newspaper.

99 "The presidentÂ’s health care overhaul includes a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices that will send the durable medical equipment industry into intensive care, eliminate 43,000 jobs, and whack $3.5 billion from local shops and communities, according to a new study by two free market economists."

100

Inheritance???  I'm spending my own retirement right now to send my kids to college and keep the nice house they grew up in.  If I was concerned more about myself, we would have sold the house as is and would be living in a 2-bedroom apartment somewhere, and my son would be in community college and working fulltime to pay his own rent.   So no, they aren't expecting to get any inheritance from me. 

I might actually get some inheritance someday.  But my mom is 90 and going strong, and I kinda like having her around.  Plus she had 5 kids, and one gets her house and what little money is left has to be split 4 ways.  If she spends all the money, so what?  I think that is going to be the new normal. 

101 How many weeks in a row has New U.S. jobless claims risen unexpectedly?  Is it over 100?

102

4

Can Obama show that spending one silver  cupra-nickle dime more on education improved ANYONE's school performance?

FIFY

103 And yes, I did have to walk back and forth to school in the snow barefoot and uphill in both directions while carrying by lunch rolled up in the neighbor's discarded newspaper.

Because newspaper was too valuable for you to discard your own, right?

And, as for the parallel lines with pumps and switches and such- that's kind of what I figured.

104 92 "You don't deserve an inheritance or a political career due to the awesome accomplishment of being born a g-ddamn Kennedy."

Hasn't Karma killed most of them off?

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 08, 2011 09:48 AM (ZDUD4)

They left a lot of their bloodline out there, just with different last names. 

105 34 Allen G,

you mean ancient whiteish guys who were an imperialist power actually terraformed the earth somehow and it didn't have to bankrupt their kingdom or put them back in caves?

No, really?

Yeah nice post....*if* AGW is real it is a good thing perhaps and it is something that probably would lead to the baby steps towards weather control....

further instead of sacrificing to the weather gods we'd be a lot better served doing as detached as possible impact analysis and weighing whether it would be a net positive or negative for the United States.

F**k Gore

106 Glad I still remember how to farm these many years after that first abomination called jimmah pretty much ruined that future livelyhood, think I might need that knowlege shortly. And oh by the way, welcome back Vic, wishing you well.

107 All Gen X'ers are in that 2nd position, and many of them are already in the 3rd. It's not unreasonable to expect your grown children to have at least some idea of your financial situation. I should have been more specific. I was thinking more about school age early twenties children. Yes, when parents are elderly and risk being taken advantage of, they should have a trusted advisor, or a responsible adult child.

108 "And yes, I did have to walk back and forth to school in the snow barefoot and uphill in both directions while carrying by lunch rolled up in the neighbor's discarded newspaper." And here, AllenG, lies the solution to your problem. Put the reservoirs near the schools that serve drought-stricken areas. Forget the valves because a simple sluice gate would work. By implementing forced busing and varying class schedules, water could be moved via simple gravity all across the country from schools about to start their instructional days to schools that have just finished their instructional days.

109

You had lunch!?! We were lucky to eat the newspaper.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 08, 2011 09:50 AM (326rv)

LOL, I see we have started the ultimate "walk to school" meme this morning. 

But my lunch was sawdust from the tree we cut down and chopped before school so mom would have wood for the cook-stove for supper that night.

110 Every night I get to snuggle bunny with Huma....mmmmmmmmmmm dreamy!

111 EXACTLY, the Republican who grabs a hold of the seniors in high school with the young republicans targeting them with precise data on the nature and flaws in social security and the very good reasons for private accounts on at least a portion of it will be President within 4 cycles.

The math is brutal, direct, and the morality of the program is inarguably flawed.

"I paid in and I is owed so it stays" does not justify the grift vs rate of return or justify the coercive and fraudulent nature of the program.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 09:50 AM (AEIYh)

My son may be smarter than the average 18-year-old, but he knows this already.  He has already told me he won't vote for Obama next year, unless the GOP nominates a "yahoo like Sarah Palin or a nut like Ron Paul."  And this is after he supported John Kerry in 2004.  But Republicans have a ways to go to convince young people that they are capable of fixing the mess we are in.  The brand is still very flawed with this generation.  It would be helpful to have more youthful pols lile Marco Rubio speaking out directly to the young people. 

112

Say I'm living in the hood and I am getting LIHEAP(Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program) that pays a portion of my utility bill.

Then, some guys show up at my house to tell me that I qualify for the federal Weatherization Assistance Program(I can earn up to $44,000 a year for a family of 4).

So now that my utility bill is lower, do I receive less gov't assistance via LIHEAP?  

 

113 Because newspaper was too valuable for you to discard your own, right?

We were too "poor" to afford a newspaper.

114 We all watched the Presidential debate last night and yes Romney and Perry are mental midgets compared to our president. What we don't underdstand is why presadent Obama was not there to debate? Did he miss the debate to prepare for tonight's speech on saving the economy that Bush totally screwed up?

115 "91 is comprehension your new word? i saw someone posted it to you and you now regurgitate it....like you regurgitate what you hear on talk radio...original thinking much? no, they don't teach that in ivy league schools....group think! kurious want a cracker? parrot

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:48 AM (eOXTH)"

you know, for someone who is soooo happy and even has ten closets as big as my apartment you have an inordinate amount of absolute hate and vitriol in your posts.  A person that full of abject hate cannot be a happy person, your hate is so all consuming it is actually sad to watch.

116 66 Vic is back,

I dunno Hoover was a TR style interventionist progressive Republican, I fear if anything had he pulled off the reigns like Harding we'd have sunk deeper in.  The US seemed doomed to engage in some form of the interventionist craze sweeping Europe.  Leaders default to what they know and what they've done and Hoover ran a huge government relief operation in WW1-post WW1.

117

you know, for someone who is soooo happy and even has ten closets as big as my apartment you have an inordinate amount of absolute hate and vitriol in your posts.  A person that full of abject hate cannot be a happy person, your hate is so all consuming it is actually sad to watch.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 08, 2011 09:56 AM (k1rwm)

you mad bro?

118 Posted by: rockmom at September 08, 2011 09:55 AM (lSyyU)

I had figured out that Democrats were full of crap by the time I was 18.  Of course, I've been cynical for most of my life.

That said, I think some basic teaching about economic realities (which, in theory, they learn in school- if only most HS economics teachers weren't liberal themselves) should convince most of them.

119 phoenixgirl at September 08, 2011 09:48 AM (eOXTH)" Let it go hon, you can't debate Psychotic.

120

You had lunch!?! We were lucky to eat the newspaper.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 08, 2011 09:50 AM (326rv)

Newspaper?  You were lucky!   We had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down at the mill -- and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work -- and when we got home, our dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

You just try and tell the young people of today that.  They won't believe you.

121 to get married, stay married, get to know couples who have stayed married 30, 40, or 50 years. 

coming on 40 years of marriage - paying attention to what worked for others has paid off.

122 Yeah, Hoover was a "progressive", as was most Republicans at the time, but who knows how far it would have gone if they had been able to keep FDR out of office at the time.

I still maintain that FDR was the worst President ever by a large margin.

123 Newspaper?  You were lucky!   We had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down at the mill -- and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work -- and when we got home, our dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

Okay... I know it's early, but I'm declaring winner.

Also, because it's been too long since it's been said: Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

124

118 Posted by: rockmom at September 08, 2011 09:55 AM (lSyyU)

I had figured out that Democrats were full of crap by the time I was 18.  Of course, I've been cynical for most of my life.

That said, I think some basic teaching about economic realities (which, in theory, they learn in school- if only most HS economics teachers weren't liberal themselves) should convince most of them.

In my day economics was never taught in high school. Doubt seriously it has been incorporated into the curricula today. Just sayin.

125

We had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down at the mill -- and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work -- and when we got home, our dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.

Scott Walker wants to take us back to those days!!!1

126

you mad bro?

Posted by: yinzer at September 08, 2011 09:57 AM (/Mla1)

no, why? 

127 111 Rockmom,

that is mainly because we have largely ignored them unlike the Reagan era.....

if we leave the little darlings exposed only to Whoreywood and the Daily Show we've already lost....it is vital that we mentor the kids in the Young republicans to make simple persuasive arguments on serious fiscal topics, in Ohio the GOP gave our groups access to Uncle Milty's words and tutored us on arguments about the moral imperative to freedom and the necessity of work for healthy pride....

I just don't see anyone working as hard as they did during the Reagan era.

The fruit of our children's labor should be our children's not mine and definitely not the boomers.

128 126 cancerous,

you seem tense.....

anything going on with your conclave?

129

You had lunch!?! We were lucky to eat the newspaper.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 08, 2011 09:50 AM (326rv)

LOL, I see we have started the ultimate "walk to school" meme this morning. 

But my lunch was sawdust from the tree we cut down and chopped before school so mom would have wood for the cook-stove for supper that night.

Posted by: Vic is back

 

We would have cut down trees too.....if we had an axe. Or a stove.

130 I still maintain that FDR was the worst President ever by a large margin.

I agree.  I just think they were doomed the moment Hoover decided intervention was the way to go.

Remember, Democrats will always promise you more than Republicans.  Once Republicans ceded the moral ground that "Government shouldn't do that," it became a race to see who could offer more of that sweet, sweet Government cheese.

131

Okay... I know it's early, but I'm declaring winner.

Hah!  I wish I could take credit for it, but that's all the work of Eric Idle and the Python boys.  It just seemed so apropos.

Also, because it's been too long since it's been said: Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 08, 2011 10:00 AM (8y9MW)

That can never be said enough.  Allow me to echo:

Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

(and I even used the *!)

132 In my day economics was never taught in high school. Doubt seriously it has been incorporated into the curricula today. Just sayin.

It was a course required for graduation at my High School.  That's more than 10 years ago now. (Going on 15 for that particular course).

133 122 Vic is back,

well I agree on a few fronts.

1) domestic-the crisis we face would never have happened so far as derivative bombs and such having the same power....

FDR willfully created coercive government tools that he ahd to have known would be misused ay a future date.

2) international-Uncle Joe would not have thrived as he did w/out FDR and quite frankly the cold war would have been a lot easier had we not allowed FDR to have the halls of foggy bottom painted red.

about the only area I have a hard time faulting him is his overall hands off approach to letting the war be ran by the CinCs...

134 132 Allen G,

we were required to take a civics course that covered simple econ....

I took econ honors 1+2....

135 Objectivity here folks - Newt won the debate. The purpose of debates is to identify the winner. It was Newt. He is not without pimples and warts. That said, I think we should re-evaluate his candidacy. Just sayin. The man can gut a fish and a poser in less than two sentences. Something badly lacking in the other candidates.

136

On the "hard times" meme look at this photo and read the comments

Also read this book

No stories we can make up hold a candle to what these folks endured.

I ran across the photo while catching up with Shorpy yesterday evening.

What I am scared to death of is that we are headed into this once again.

And for the same damn reasons.

137 Does anyone else remember from school being taught that the "laissez faire" attitude of government prior to the twentieth century was a bad thing?  Because I do.  Today, with my head less full of mush and overflowing with righteous anger and sarcasm, I wonder how many of my classmates from back then still believe that bullshite today.

138 Hey, folks.  I was over at Althouse's this morning and she has a really good post up about Perry, Huntsman, and the anti-science myth.  It includes her (unofficial, I think) transcript of Perry's answer which, frankly, doesn't read badly at all.  It sounds like he stammered a bit and veered off-topic with the Galileo stuff, but really he did actually cast it in terms of economics. 

139 Does anyone else remember from school being taught that the "laissez faire" attitude of government prior to the twentieth century was a bad thing?  Because I do.  Today, with my head less full of mush and overflowing with righteous anger and sarcasm, I wonder how many of my classmates from back then still believe that bullshite today.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at September 08, 2011 10:07 AM (4df7R)

Yes.  And FDR was a saint.  The good thing is, people figure things out on their own.  And as we do, the animosity towards the methods used in public schools will grow, and it will be more difficult for them to continue bullshitting our kids.  Hopefully, at least.

140 Does anyone else remember from school being taught that the "laissez faire" attitude of government prior to the twentieth century was a bad thing?  Because I do.

Oh yes I remember that. But my teachers were all hard core Southern spinsters who were yellow dog Democrats who worshiped the ground FDR walked on.

141 "In my day economics was never taught in high school." In the bad old days, Economics didn't need its own course. By way of the mandatory two semesters of Western Civ, two semesters of US History, and one semester of Civics, we got exposed to all the nasty shit from Real Life that Economics could not fit to their elegant but wrong hypotheses.

142 2) international-Uncle Joe would not have thrived as he did w/out FDR and quite frankly the cold war would have been a lot easier had we not allowed FDR to have the halls of foggy bottom painted red.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 10:05 AM (AEIYh)

The gimp fuck sold out eastern Europe to the commies; his face with that stupid cigarette holder should  be in every central European urinal.

143 137 MWR,

back in the late '80s early '90s most teachers were "liberal" like a "only goes on easter and Xmas mass" guy is a "catholic".....

they got rabid during Clinton.

so things were gently shaded towards showing the theoretical good interventionism could perform but they would tolerate a well reasoned and politely delivered rebuttal on the merits of allowing the market to work with as few controls as were ethically possible....

not the case now....an econ class I observed two years ago spent as much time over three days going on about the Teacher's Malthusian Death Cult led by Pope Al the Worst than they did over the productive cycle or how markets work.....

I've seen more pointed and better explanations of our "theoretical system of business" given to 2d graders by Junior Achievement.

no joke

144 All of this doom will subside after my jobs speech!

145 75 To clarify on the inheritance point, I'm not at all saying that it's a bad thing to try to plan to provide for your heirs, quite the opposite.  Of course it's good to provide, if you can.  It's the entitlement assumption by Gen X that drives me nuts.  No, you do not deserve to have Mommy and Daddy leave you a cool half mil between the house and the investment accounts.  If they do, great!  Gooooo you!  But you don't deserve it due to the awesome accomplishment of being their kid.  No.  Really.  You don't.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 08, 2011 09:40 AM (VtjlW)

I love this post.

My in-laws are very well-off.  However, the f-i-l was brought up very poor.  His dad died when he and his brother were young boys, and their mother worked as a school teacher raising them and struggling.  Both men excelled in school and graduated major universities and became highly successful (the brother served in WWII, and my f-i-l couldn't due to being deaf in one ear).

Anyhoo, they announced several years ago they are leaving every dime to charities and donating their bodies to science.

They've had nice, long lives and still travel and enjoy themselves.  None of their children need their money.  

Good on them.

146 alexthechick:

To clarify on the inheritance point, I'm not at all saying that it's a bad thing to try to plan to provide for your heirs, quite the opposite.

I think what I'd say is that the government has made it very hard to build wealth as a legacy. It's very hard to build wealth over generations now due to the various tax and regulatory burdens placed on us by the government -- that's why so many family businesses either get sold or broken up when the founder dies. In the old days, a son or daughter would take it over, using personal wealth as a capital "cushion" to build out the business. (Or the spendthrift would squander it and be known as a wastrel.)

I think that the notion of "legacy" is critical to keeping a civilization on a paying basis. If your owe time-horizon stops with your own death, then you stop worrying about long-term cultural and social problems. Many successful projects and business concerns are the product of several generations. If every generation has to start "from scratch", it makes wealth-building much harder.

Like most of you, I didn't get squat from my parents -- I never knew my father, and my mother didn't have anything to give me. I consider myself a better person for having worked for what I have. But I have been careful to structure my affairs in such a way as to leave a bequest to members of my family: not because I have to, but because it will be my final gift to them, a way of projecting my wealth past the event-horizon of my own death. This is my own little way of keeping civilization going.

147 142 Captain Hate,

oh believe me you know I could go on....

my post count says as much i could probably make 200 posts today about my FDR rage....

the way the ww2 gen and the boomers deify him makes me ill

148 May have missed it but you weenies didn't have it rough.
When I CARRIED MY HORSE uphill both ways, there were wet newspapers in the saddlebags.
We lived at the bottom of the hill in Nebraska, btw.

149 kurious...clean up your closet...i mean your apartment i wasn't aware i had 10 closets.....but then i didn't know i was a secretary until yesterday either.....why do you hate secretaries?

150 Shut up, cankertwat. As for inheritance, I think most of you are looking at it backwards. It's not a matter of receiving an "undeserved" windfall. It's a matter of disposing of one's own wealth however the fuck they want to. That money's been taxed already. If I want to give it to a charity, how are they more deserving? They're fucking strangers being showered with pennies from heaven. Or maybe they're not. Maybe like Warren Buffett, I've established a bullshit charitable foundation to shield my estate from the death tax and provide a way for my kids, who I appoint as directors, to receive a shitpot of income. Oh, and allow the foundation to invesat and make returns. TAX FREE. So tell me how is a stranger "deserving", but one's own children "undeserving?" I don't get this unconscious wealth envy shit. We have a tax schema for unearned income - the capital gains rate. We also have one for donating to charity - it's largely a non-taxable event. Why is it "just" to punish my children for my last act of love for them?

151 Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at September 08, 2011 10:07 AM (4df7R)

Oh, yes, I remember that.  I was also taught that we wouldn't have had the economic success we've had if it hadn't been for the Government stepping down hard on the "Robber Barons" and if the Unions hadn't come in to save the day.

152

Don't worry, your children will inherit lots from me!*

 

*None of it good.

153 142 2) international-Uncle Joe would not have thrived as he did w/out FDR and quite frankly the cold war would have been a lot easier had we not allowed FDR to have the halls of foggy bottom painted red.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 10:05 AM (AEIYh)

The gimp fuck sold out eastern Europe to the commies; his face with that stupid cigarette holder should  be in every central European urinal.

Capn Hate, eastern Europe was a fait acompli not a choice. The Russians are what broke the German Army not the allies. We nibbled at the edges while Russia sucked the German's dry. Sort of the same way Napoleon was crushed by the Russians. History is a bitch.

154 145 Jane D'oh,

you must know different Gen Xers than I do....

most of us grasp that mom and dad wasted their early prime investing years getting high, laid, or drunk out of their minds....

then in the mid-70s to late 80s they kicked off tripling the national divorce rate destroying a lot of credit potential and hurting their wealth....

no I "get it"....

trust me you guys have done enough

155

And this is after he supported John Kerry in 2004.

Ahh, you must live in Chicago and/or Philly and/or Detroit with the voting at 14.  (I keed, I keed)

On the walking to school meme, a few years back I was teaching legal research and I made my students actually use the printed volume of the US Code to look stuff up.  You would have thought I'd asked them to use an abacus for math and chisel and tablet to write.  Of course, the real goal was to make them see just how freaking huge the US Code really is.  It was hilarious seeing the looks on their faces.  Good times, good times.

See, unlike Obama, I was not a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

 

 

 

156 Does anyone have any dimes I can borrow? I need to get some gas.

157 143 137 MWR,

back in the late '80s early '90s most teachers were "liberal" like a "only goes on easter and Xmas mass" guy is a "catholic".....

they got rabid during Clinton.
----

You were lucky.  They were already rabid in the early 70s in my school district (Maryland, DC suburb).  I remember them having the tv's on in our no-walls school and cheering when Agnew resigned. 

158 156 Does anyone have any dimes I can borrow? I need to get some gas.           What's a dime?

159 I'm seeing more and more articles which basically say "The problem isn't that Keynesianism doesn't work, the problem is that we're not doing Keynesianism right". Reminds me of people saying the same thing about socialism 20 or 30 years ago. I'm not an economist, but my instinct is to say "Bullshit" to this.
Can someone (Monty?) comment on this? Is Keynesianism fundamentally flawed (as I suspect) or are we just doing it wrong?

160

Glad to see I'm not the only one who remembers the laissez faire issue back in school!  I graduated high school in '98, so yeah, a nice chunk of my education took place during the Clinton years.  Good God.  The pain.

Oh, yes, I remember that.  I was also taught that we wouldn't have had the economic success we've had if it hadn't been for the Government stepping down hard on the "Robber Barons" and if the Unions hadn't come in to save the day.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 08, 2011 10:14 AM (8y9MW)

THIS.  I was saying to my dad, quite literally yesterday, that we need to resurrect the Pinkerton Agency, dammit.

161 153 Sub-Tard,

that was a cagey decision on our part.

The US could have buried the Russians in 45-'47 and we should have.....

it is to our national shame we only removed the second worst genocider and totalitarian in Europe......

America was only at 560% war footing in 1944 and we had manpower reserves that the soviets couldn't match...add in a monopoly on the bomb, a naval presence they couldn't match, and access to paperclip data with a humming war economy to back it and we wwould have won.

Even the hardest victory over it would have been cheaper than the cold war, Vietnam, korea and the nuclear arms race in blood and gold.

162 iowa bob we can do it better!!!!!!/////

163 154. Thank you. I've supported my mom since my dad dumped her for a much younger nurse years ago. I had to work to pay for a lawyer for her when I was 22 and have taken care of her since. The Silents are no better than the Boomers when it comes to "their posterity" - it really was never ever on their radar. And we were "latchkey kids," so they could party and screw around thru their adulthood.

164 btw....it's sunny here again today!!!

165 When I CARRIED MY HORSE uphill both ways, there were wet newspapers in the saddlebags.
We lived at the bottom of the hill in Nebraska, btw.

LOL, Now we have a "winner".

166

So tell me how is a stranger "deserving", but one's own children "undeserving?"

I don't get this unconscious wealth envy shit. We have a tax schema for unearned income - the capital gains rate. We also have one for donating to charity - it's largely a non-taxable event. Why is it "just" to punish my children for my last act of love for them?

Ummmmmmm, I wasn't talking about any of that.  I was addressing the attitude of the heirs that they freaking deserve to get that money from Mommy and Daddy, no matter what.  Dude, I would be thrilled if the moratorium on the federal inheritance was permanent and I am all for every single person leaving everything they can to their kids.  But I will stand by my position that I, as a child, have no damn right to demand that my parents leave me anything at all.  Do I feel that is the better thing for the parents to do?  Yup.  Do I think it's wise planning on the parents' behalf?  Yup.  But I will not accept the position that it's the parents obligation to provide for their heirs to the expense of having some enjoyment of the later years of life.

Now, having said all of that, I have no problem, at all, in setting up whatever structure is necessary in order to shield assets from the government.  Not a single issue at all.  Oh hell no Medicare shouldn't get that house before the kids do.  Hell.  No. 

167 {{{blackorchid}}}

168 Is Keynesianism fundamentally flawed (as I suspect) or are we just doing it wrong?

Yes, and yes.

Keynesianism requires that money be taken from the productive (or from future generations) to pay for spending today.  Debt is never "good," even if it may be (temporarily) the lesser evil.  More importantly, Keynesianism assumes that government will spend money wisely- something for which there is a great lack of evidence.

That said, what Keynes actually advocated is not exactly what Government has been doing.

So, yes, it's fundamentally flawed, and yes, we're doing it wrong.

169 "I remember them having the tv's on in our no-walls school and cheering when Agnew resigned." Heh. MCPS? I worked with a guy who went to a no-walls school about the same time as you. Strange dude. He was a dyed-in-the-wool democrat, but he hated unions with a passion. He once told me that the shitty, experimental schooling he got--including widespread heavy drug use in his affluent, whitebread suburbs through middle school and high school--set his life back about fifteen years.

170

“Romney and Perry were fine. We should be so lucky if either of them replaced Obama tomorrow morning. I’d treat everyone to champagne from here to Ohio. Huntsman is another matter. For a while I sort of liked him, but then things started to roll down hill fast. His pretentious belief in man-made global warming as settled science is so silly you want to guffaw. And then there’s his isolationist foreign policy. Sorry. No sale.”

lifted from insta. +I agree.

171 We nibbled at the edges while Russia sucked the German's dry.

That's a misstatement. The Allied effort in Northern Africa, Italy, and Western Europe after 1944 was *huge*. We didn't "nibble" anything -- we broke the best the Nazis had (Kesselring in Italy, Guderian in France). Yes, the Russians held down the Nazis for a long time -- but they would have been utterly defeated had it not been for the Americans. Lend-Lease kept them supplied early on (especially the Dodge trucks they used), and our military might took the pressure off later and allowed them to move west.

Don't trivialize what the Allies, and especially the Americans, accomplished. The Russians didn't "win it". They would have been crushed had not the Allies invaded Europe on D-Day.

172 Of course, “friends of solar” will point out that Solyndra was supposed to be operating in an environment of higher energy prices that would have existed if “cap-and-trade” had passed the Congress.
The painful truth is that had energy costs been higher, the cost of manufacturing the Solyndra panels probably would have also been higher, which still would have them going into bankruptcy.

173 161 153 Sub-Tard,

that was a cagey decision on our part.

The US could have buried the Russians in 45-'47 and we should have.....

it is to our national shame we only removed the second worst genocider and totalitarian in Europe......

America was only at 560% war footing in 1944 and we had manpower reserves that the soviets couldn't match...add in a monopoly on the bomb, a naval presence they couldn't match, and access to paperclip data with a humming war economy to back it and we wwould have won.

Even the hardest victory over it would have been cheaper than the cold war, Vietnam, korea and the nuclear arms race in blood and gold.
Sven10077 we were at the time calculating the cost of taking out Japan. I don't think anyone wanted to do another war in Europe in 1944-45. Our war aim had been completed - we conquered Germany and Italy. We still had Asia to do. Then there is that more meaningful task of conquest: digesting and integrating your ground gains economically, politically and most importantly culturally. This is known as winning-winning.

174 150 EoJ,

yeah pretty amazing isn't it?

The boomers and WW2 gen both believe in "reverse inheritance"....the hardest thing I ever said to my maternal grandmother was when she asked what I thought of social security when I finally started earning, "grandma I am glad it is helping you but it is a gigantic vacuum cleaner in my wallet that will never give me the rate of return you or mom and dad will earn it is generational theft."

We made peace on it and I told her I had no intention of using what meager influence I have on the system to totally destroy the system for those already on it but that I would fight to stagger wean the system down.

I am really looking forward to my kids having their prime investing years have liquid cash drained by the ponzi scheme so seniors across the board w/out a means test can get either their total income or a few golf games worth of cash tying up potential capital that could be funding healthy growth in the economy.....

"no really I am thrilled"

175 On the walking to school meme, a few years back I was teaching legal research and I made my students actually use the printed volume of the US Code to look stuff up.

LOL, that must have been akin to hitting them with their first pay stub. I have spent a lot of time in the CFR and its associated Reg Guides etc.

It is damn amazing that any company can get anything done. It it is probably because most routinely violate them through shear ignorance.

The average citizen has no idea how much control the government has actually taken.

176 thanks Phoenixgirl, btw after this August and Sept I am ready to move the hell out of here and out to AZ I swear to God. We put up with 6 months of crap weather just so we have nice weather around now and no earthquakes, hurricanes or mudslides . . . NORMALLY! but this year, we've had all three

177 And according to a recent Gallup Poll, barely one-fourth of the American public approve of the presidentÂ’s economic policies.

Who are these people and what is there to like about Obama's economic policies ?

178 The Paultards seem to be turned to 11 following last night's debate. Every only poll and news story comment area has been stuffed like Michelle at a buffet.

179 173 Sub-tard,

what we've "won' is a world that has deep systemic marxist rot when we could have won that argument I think command economies may have lost their sexiness if Stalin's abattoir had been exposed earlier.

180 Heh. MCPS?

No.  We weren't rich enough to live in Montgomery County!  This was Howard County. 

181 My mother left a bit of money to me, my sister, and my son.

We took the son to our investment guy who set him up a Roth and explained to him how he would have a nice, healthy retirement fund if he never touched it, and added to it as he could. 

Also, we'll leave him our home (if we're still in it), family heirlooms, and whatever money we have left after our retirement (which is waaaay off in the future somewhere). 

Hopefully, he won't *need* the money to survive.  And hopefully he'll marry someone who's smarter handling money than he is.  *falls to knees for millionth time to pray*

182 Who are these people and what is there to like about Obama's economic policies ?

Posted by: Barney Frank at September 08, 2011 10:25 AM (e8kgV)

 

Never ending welfare payments

183 Has anyone noticed that the yield on the one year Greek bond is like 86% and the two year is about 50%? this is either the investment of a life time or a default is going to happen much sooner then we think.

184

Capn Hate, eastern Europe was a fait acompli not a choice. The Russians are what broke the German Army not the allies. We nibbled at the edges while Russia sucked the German's dry. Sort of the same way Napoleon was crushed by the Russians. History is a bitch.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 08, 2011 10:15 AM (0M3AQ)

I'm well aware of what the Red Army accomplished through their own courage and tenacity (particularly with the secret police in their midst) but Stalin was able to accomplish what he did post-war because he knew FDR was a fucking weakling and willing to sell out anybody.  Case in point:  We turned over (and by "we" I include the Brits) all the Rooski POWs from Nazi camps even though they knew it would be sure death for them (particularly the Kulaks but really everybody) rather than tell Stalin to go fuck himself.  Some of them even committed suicide rather than be sent back.

Communism has always been a failure waiting to happen yet too many donk pols have been unwilling to twist the knife (with JFK being just about the sole exception).  There's a reason Reagan was such a voice of hope to the people in the gulag.

185 166 AtC,

hey trust me the bumper sticker "we're spending our kids inheritance" is wonderful....

no no honestly I understand the massive privation the boomers have endured....the tough economic times like their parents......

live it up you guys slaved long enough

Thanks for the memories, of chicago '68, getting pregnant on a date, abortion on demand, losing autowork to Japan......


thanks for the memories

186 177 And according to a recent Gallup Poll, barely one-fourth of the American public approve of the presidentÂ’s economic policies.

Who are these people and what is there to like about Obama's economic policies ?

Posted by: Barney Frank at September 08, 2011 10:25 AM (e8kgV)

They are:

1) The 20% of the population who are diehard democrats and always, always, always praise incumbent dems regardless of their policies; and

2) The detached idiots who don't pay attention to anything outside of their own sphere of experience and thus don't see the problems in the economy.  "I've got a job and can pay my rent, so yeah, everything's peachy.  Why do you ask?"

187 171 We nibbled at the edges while Russia sucked the German's dry.

That's a misstatement. The Allied effort in Northern Africa, Italy, and Western Europe after 1944 was *huge*. We didn't "nibble" anything -- we broke the best the Nazis had (Kesselring in Italy, Guderian in France). Yes, the Russians held down the Nazis for a long time -- but they would have been utterly defeated had it not been for the Americans. Lend-Lease kept them supplied early on (especially the Dodge trucks they used), and our military might took the pressure off later and allowed them to move west.

Don't trivialize what the Allies, and especially the Americans, accomplished. The Russians didn't "win it". They would have been crushed had not the Allies invaded Europe on D-Day.

Germany lost at Stalingrad - that was 1943. After Stalingrad the Germans never gained any ground but were forced to cede ground to buy time. In 1943 the Brits and Americans secured N. Africa and thus secured their source of oil. Stalingrad destroyed an entire Army Group of over 300K. N. Africa was much smaller potatos. Don't go all batshit crazy - we nibbled in N.Africa to season up our forces for Europe. Italy was a very stupid campaign that quickly became a quagmire with no strategic purpose. There is a thing known as the Alps in northern Italy with very channelized lines of approach into central Europe. There was no soft underbelly in Italy - it was a meat grinder with Allies supplying the meat.

188 181 Jane D'oh,

I'm not saying anyone should be in the silver spoons giving business, but I made up my mind at 17 that if I was seriously a conservative and I honestly believed that govt should butt the hell out of lives I had a responsibility to try to build a decent patrimony for any children I had.....

the wife and I can only have the one....

we'll help him along not carry him, but I want him helped along enough he feels a duty to help my grandchild(ren) should I be so lucky

189 Has anyone noticed that the yield on the one year Greek bond is like 86% and the two year is about 50%?

Last I checked the Greek 1-years were over 90%. It's like a two-for-one bond sale. That sound you hear is the trampling feet of bond-buyers running for the hills. An interest-rate on debt that high is ludicrous: it means that the markets anticipate a certainty of default, not the mere possibility.

The Greeks have already gone into a 'soft default' prior to the last bailout; the 'hard default' will trigger the CDS options, and then the hard rain is really going to fall.

190

It is damn amazing that any company can get anything done. It it is probably because most routinely violate them through shear ignorance.

The average citizen has no idea how much control the government has actually taken.

That was precisely why I wanted them to physically see it.  I don't know if it made any impression at all but I figured it couldn't hurt.  Some counterprogramming, if you will.

I am of the firm belief that it is impossible to comply with every law and regulation out there.  I was talking to boy BFF last night who is trying to figure out how the medical facility at which he works can compy with the fire code that requires unlocked door access through all areas to prevent people from, you know, literally DIAF, and HIPAA which requires locked door access to certain of the medical records.  The layout of the facility is such that he can't do both.  I suggested a tunnel.  He's actually considering it. 

 

 

191 "This was Howard County." Maryland is a solid blue state, yet [therefore?] it couldn't be more segregated if they still had Jim Crow laws on the books.

192 183 BTM,

using the rule of 72 the Greaks from Grease are promising you a 100% rate of return in less than 365 days....

so either:

a) they know the EU will try to FORCE germany to bail them out and it is a short term burst they are hungry for

or

b) they are within 90 days of implosion and it is a piece of paper you're buying.....

if you can get the pay out guaranteed in EUro Ds I'd put a hundred bucks in on a lark,......

just wait 'til we allow the consumer public to set interest rates instead of Bukakae's grapefruit juice

193 Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 10:32 AM (AEIYh)

I'm with ya. 

194 @191 self To clarify: Montgomery, Howard, and Prince George's Counties are deeply economically and racially segregated.

195 161 The US could have buried the Russians in 45-'47 and we should have.....

Even the hardest victory over it would have been cheaper than the cold war, Vietnam, Korea and the nuclear arms race in blood and gold.

We would have avoided most of the messes the USSR sponsored groups created in South America, Africa, South East Asia, and Central Asia as well.

But honestly I think a US offensive to crush the USSR and free Central and Eastern Europe in 1945 would have gone much better than expected. Those people, including the citizens of the USSR, had no love for Stalin and would have been receptive. Large swaths of the Red Army probably would have surrendered once freed of the threat of execution by commissars. Not to mention that a large part of the USSR's industrial footing was shipments of materials from the Allies. They had the centralized heavy industrial production to churn out tanks thanks to Stalin's forced industrialization, but the rest of their economy and logistics in no way was capable of supporting a war effort without Allied assistance. Furthermore, most Russians actually fighting the war saw it as a war of national defense against a greater evil and knew failure meant death at the hands of the NAZIs or Stalin's goons; having a third option of capitulation to the Allies for freedom from both the NAZIs and Stalin's tyranny probably would have been popular.

196 Ummmmmmm, I wasn't talking about any of that.  I was addressing the attitude of the heirs that they freaking deserve to get that money from Mommy and Daddy, no matter what. But who is making that argument? Sure, it's an obnoxious attitude, but if obnoxiousness were illegal, I'd be breaking rocks in prison right now instead of creating the wealth that will fund the Machinery of Oppression my Master Race will direct as your new Ruling Class. Frankly, I only know one person like that. And he's in for a rude awakening when his parents die. But even if his parents choose to fund his cokehead lifestyle out of feelings of guilt or misplaced obligation - so what? It's their choice to make. There are jurisdictions where you can disinherit your ungrateful layabout bastards. Avail yourself of them. I'm not bitching at YOU, alex. This is just one of my hot-button issues and I'm feeling bloaty and my breasts are tender. Love you long time.

197 Obama's blaming Congress tires Democrats

These Dems feel he is not singling out Republicans enough when it comes to our economy and the debt. They fail to realize that this is about his reelection and he would render their points moot on the few issues they think they can win on if it means victory for him in 2012.

198

33  But the fact remains that, in the aggregate, the aging of the Boomers is presenting numerous problems.  It's not generational warfare to point this out.

The boomers had their wages confiscated for their entire working lives in order to fund the SS and Medicare of their parents/grandparents.  FICA 'contributions' went up dramtically during the Reagan administration in order to 'fund' the continued health of the system..........whoops.

The boomer cohort was/still is huge.  It was their taxes/fica/etc payments that gave the illusion of tremendous prosperity for the last 30 years.  That's when all the entitlement payments and generous govt pensions were boosted beyond all ability for the following generations to fund.

Math is hard. 

199 I canNOT believe it is still raining. (SE PA)

200 189 Monty,

agreed...I suspect even had Brussels thought she was going to use subtle threats to make the germans bail the greaks out the events of the last 8 days have ended that.....

I am about 75% sure the implosion is done by Xmas.

201
More than half of the 7 million-plus jobs lost since the recession began in December 2007 vanished since Obama signed the $787 billion stimulus package last Feb. 17. That aid was intended to help reverse job losses.

Oh, I say and I say it again, ya been had!

Ya been took!

Ya been hoodwinked!

Bamboozled!

Led astray!

Run amok!

202 The layout of the facility is such that he can't do both.  I suggested a tunnel.  He's actually considering it.

We had the same such regulations except that we also had to comply wit the much more stringent Appendix R code.

Usually you had to design the rooms using one hour fire barriers and doors (depending on use) with the doors opening  freely in only one direction. (check valve doors if you will).

Also records were kept in locking one hour fire rated file cabinets. Vital records were kept in rooms with active fire suppression as well such as halon or CO2 (which has its own problems).

Of course all of this is expensive as hell to design in, build, and maintain with all the attendant required testing and maintenance.

203 To clarify: Montgomery, Howard, and Prince George's Counties are deeply economically and racially segregated.

---

I think that's fairly true, although I found Boston to be much worse.  However, I was in Columbia.  We were fully integrated, economically and racially.  It was great, actually.  My high school was about one third black. 

204

But honestly I think a US offensive to crush the USSR and free Central and Eastern Europe in 1945 would have gone much better than expected.

 

Blue Falcon, you do realize the fundamental math of moving east means your frontages triple in size? Napoleon and Hitler failed where you see easy-peasy gains. As I've said, history is a bitch. Does this plan of yours include refitting the German Army to do the deed? I think most Germans at the time would have said "nien." Russia is a ball breaker do to geography. Much better to conquer it through cultural and economic means. They seemed to have worked.

205 Please pray for my dad. He just *finally* went out, walking door to door, and sold some intar-webz and Satellite TV! Yaeahh!!! Dad! (BTW the last time he had a *job* was like, 15 years ago!) Good for him but I should do better.... How do you apply for your own Dad's job without being a total douche?

206 190 how the medical facility at which he works can comply with the fire code that requires unlocked door access through all areas to prevent people from, you know, literally DIAF, and HIPAA which requires locked door access to certain of the medical records.  The layout of the facility is such that he can't do both.

The naming of rooms on plans can provide the legal cover to circumvent code issues. "Entry" vs. "Waiting" vs. "Reception" can make a big difference in keeping busybody governmental authorities and lazy Fire Marshalls  from over-complicating a simply issue.

207 I'm seeing more and more articles which basically say "The problem isn't that Keynesianism doesn't work, the problem is that we're not doing Keynesianism right".

The thing is they're following the "real" keynesian theory. Given that his response to criticism was "in the long run we're all dead", the real theory is "spend a buttload of money today and let tomorrow take care of itself". Everything else was just decorative fretwork and gingerbread he glued on to make it look impressive.

208 Agreed, this kind of interest rates can only mean investors know a default is coming. Ahh the doom of it all.

209 199 I canNOT believe it is still raining. (SE PA)

Man, I saw on the news this morning that Baltimore had widespread flooding.  You guys are getting slammed out there. 

210 One Republican is now giving a rebuttal to Obama's stimulus lecture:

Bachmann fills vacuum, announces rebuttal to Obama jobs speech

211

Posted by: M80sB at September 08, 2011 10:43 AM (o2lIv)

desperation

212 Well, we've got our first fall-like weather here in coastal GA, and of course I woke up yesterday with my throat swollen and I can't breath. 

At least the smoke from the swamp fires isn't blowing in this direction.

Hope Maria stays the hell away.

213 Another thing about the American contribution to World War II: we were fighting a two-front war and the Russians weren't. Yeah, they had divisions on the Sino-Siberian border, but not many. America and the Allies defeated Japan and kept them from threatening Russia's eastern flank. (And remember that Japan had already defeated Russia once in the war of 1904-05.)

214 198 boots,

for a generation that raised political hell earlier and harder than any other generation thanks to the infiltration of Marxists on campus the boomers sure weren't paying attention....

they were silent as LBJ formalized the defacto inclusion of the SS pool into the general fund rather than having to take the political hit of raiding the cookie jar.....

the math of the system was always known the data was always there, like i said I think the boomers were 'busy"....

if the system was ever going to be easily put away that would have been the time to do it as the boomers had the numers and energy to do so.....

for god's sake if the ww2 gen had had ANY control over your guys' actions and motives the generation would be remembered far differently by us Xers I assure you....

so yeah you paid in...and yeah we're probably gonna go ahead and double our FICA and steal investment potential out of our market to fund your guys' twilight but save the "hero" act for the generation Y and Z kids who get to finish of our generation Xers trying to pick up the pieces of FDR's scam thanks....

perhaps had the liberal Boomers spent 1/16th the energy on securing their retirement as they did undermining Vietnam, murdering babies, and trying to subvert US economic interests in the world we'd ALL be better off no?

215

(CBS News)  On Wednesday, CBS News learned that the president's jobs and growth package now could top $400 billion. That's a big number, and CBS News correspondent Norah O'Donnell reports that the size of this plan has grown over recent days.

The President has not consulted Republicans in Congress, but if they don't pass his bill, he will blame them.

 

It's nice to know that we have an adult petulant child in the White House.

216 Posted by: M80sB at September 08, 2011 10:43 AM (o2lIv)

Bad call.  No one will be watching unless NBC decides to air it over the NFL.

Better to continue with the meme: "The speech rebuts itself.  We don't need to add anything else."

217 I don't think it is desperation. She is just making a political calculated move. Its success depends on what she comes up with.

I am not sure that she will though, because answering rhetoric with more rhetoric often doesn't advance the agenda.

218 205 DE,

will do glad to hear he is doing well...

219 204 Sub-tard, only if you're fighting for every square foot of land or fall prey to the theatrical allure of taking moscow....

we take the Baku oil fields and make a line preventing soviet incursion towards Persia we could have waited his ass out.....

220 New thread up. 

221 #204, There's no need for big fronts. Only attack key areas and winter itself will do a lot of the beating of the enemy in that climate itself. The USSR's centralization meant that a few good raids by allied bombers and their industrial output, on top of losing Lend Lease shipments, would have been neutered. Take the Ukraine and the USSR would have been starved into submission.

You also failed to recognize that the Red Army itself was living off occupied land in Eastern Europe, and the people being occupied were none to happy about it. That's a pretty powerful 5th column right there.

Not to mention the possibilities of invading from the Pacific Theater of Operations. Forcing the USSR into a two front war would have strained their already weak logistics to the breaking point.

222 She is just making a political calculated move. Its success depends on what she comes up with.

Then she needs to re-check her calculations.  Face it, it's a desperation move.  It may be a well-justified desperation move, but it's still a desperation move.

223 Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates Speaks At UNT
A group of about 11 from Code Pink and the North Texas branch of the International Socialist Organization calmly stood outside the Coliseum grasping signs calling Gates a war criminal.

The North Texas Daily reported on Aug. 30 that Gates was paid $108,000 to speak at the University, much to the chagrin of the protestors.

“We’re opposed to the university using our tuition money to bring Robert Gates onto campus,” said Liz Clinton, spokeswoman for the North Texas ISO branch and a junior anthropology major at UNT.

And about 20 minutes into his speech, a group of about nine were escorted out of the building after they began loudly chanting “I ain’t gonna study war no more.”

Anthropologists: why Johnny can't figure out which end of the hammer to use.

224 "However, I was in Columbia." My in-laws have been in Reston since the early 70s--similar planning and only a couple of years older than Columbia. Mixing topics: In the late 80s/early 90s, the Washington Post ran a Sunday Magazine article about how both places' planned designs were undermined by divorce rates that nobody foresaw. Since then, they've been pretty much overrun by the more typical kind of development.

225 subtard - who needs to worry about geography when you had nuclear weapons AND Curtis LeMay

226 213 Monty,

war is logistics and nobody has or ever will do it better than the US WW2 effort......

all modern cargo companies are using derviations of techniques and theory we developed in between ww1 and ww2....

our failure at the game in the Spanish-American War was the driving force behind modernization.

227 222 Allen G,

it is also a rather stupid one....

she's going to go up and speak to bambi's bullshit with vacuous platitudes....

we need to ask pointedly is quick simple language the idiot voters from the 52% will grasp....

"he has already spent more in 3 years than Bush did in 8...how big does he think his credit card should be?"

228 "Forcing the USSR into a two front war would have strained their already weak logistics to the breaking point." Instead, we invited Uncle Joe to declare war on Japan the day before we bombed Nagasaki. Tailgunner Joe was right. Stalin controlled the hands at the levers of power in DC.

229

Of course all of this is expensive as hell to design in, build, and maintain with all the attendant required testing and maintenance.

I forgot to mention that the building is "historic" and so the simple solution of knocking out a few walls and moving the records room to another area can't be done.  Of course not. 

Oh and boots?  I would like to thank you for missing my point entirely.  In case you missed it, let me be clear.  My point was that any and every time the math is hard fact that the Boomers hitting 60+ is placing a huge strain on the system is discussed this is met with toddler fists about how OMG THE BOOMERS PAID IN TOOOO and Gen X going YOU ABANDONED US AND NOW YOU WANT US TO PAY FOR YOU YOU SELFISH BASTARDS.  I would like to be able to actually discuss the issues without that taking place.  Apparently that was too subtle a point.  Which is amusing since I am not particularly known for being subtle.

 

 

230 Not to put too fine a point on it, but when I was growing up, we couldn't afford an axe so we had to chew off branches from the trees so that out Mom would have firewood for the evening meal of oak bark gruel.  We had to carry the horse out to the trees so we could reach the higher branches.

231

124 In my day economics was never taught in high school. Doubt seriously it has been incorporated into the curricula today. Just sayin.

 

I have high schoolers & economics is available as a one-semester course, and as an Advanced Placement level full year course as well.

Some states also have a requirement that to graduate from HS a student must take a Consumer course (one semester) that explains the basics of modern financial life - how checking accounts work, how the stock market works, stuff like that.

One of my kids took the class and had to pick some stocks and follow them for the semester, too bad it was with pretend money 'cause by just randomly picking her fav stocks she made money.  So much for stock analysis by experts.

232

The US could have buried the Russians in 45-'47 and we should have.....

it is to our national shame we only removed the second worst genocider and totalitarian in Europe......

Posted by: sven10077 at September 08, 2011 10:19 AM (AEIYh)

 

This. 

A conventional land battle in the East would have been a problem.  However, there was no Russian nuclear program, unless you count their spies.  Once Japan was dealt with, it should have been time to turn to the USSR and say "Deal's Off Mo-Fo!" and dropped a big one on Moscow.   

As for arming the Germans, I think you'd find they'd have been far more willing to fight than you suspect.  They were beating the Reds man for man, and only forced back by an unfriendly climate and overwhelming numbers.  Imagine a joint force of Germans with Tiger tanks and Americans with world-beating logistics.

Regardless, being first to develop the A bomb was our chance to secure a thousand years of American hegemony.  It was wasted.  Thrown away by communist symps in our own government.  Seems to be a pretty common theme - America's people betrayed over and over by its government and elites.  FDR, Truman, and their kind generally share responsibility for all the horror the world has endured since that so-called peace at the end of WW2.

233 I forgot to mention that the building is "historic" and so the simple solution of knocking out a few walls and moving the records room to another area can't be done.

Of course, yet another set of conflicting local regulations.

This is what forces businesses either to shutdown or move.

234 229 AtC,

the self-appointed "most moral generation" really takes the cake for not grasping how the system that funds our civilization works and was gamed by their parent's parents via FDR....

you can go on about "we wuz robbed so we is owed" but the simple math is that your generation had to make NOTHING like the sacrifices maintaining the retarded machine will require me and my 11 year old to make.....

Social Security sucks....

even had the cookie jar not been raided it sucks, because it is dead money....

for it to make any of the gains and give the macro economy the kind of benefit even an Argentinian plan gives you would have had to have surrendered the wealth to the Fed and let them loan the money out....

it is an economically stupid system, the system was ALWAYS A POLITICAL KEYNESIAN GAS STATION FOR OUR POLITICIANS TO RAID!

Social Security is a ponzi scheme for politicians, it is a tax it has always been a tax and they soften the emotional blow of hijacking damn near 13% of the economy of this nation day in and day out to be used by politicians as politicians are wont to do BUY VOTES.....

don't worry YOU'LL get YOURS and my age group understands that if we have a moral bone in our body we won't......

anybody under the age of 45 who thinks they are getting social security is a fool.

235 219 204 Sub-tard, only if you're fighting for every square foot of land or fall prey to the theatrical allure of taking moscow....

we take the Baku oil fields and make a line preventing soviet incursion towards Persia we could have waited his ass out.....


sven, the Baku oilfields are in Asia. You first have to move through Ukraine, through Russia into Georgia then steer south through the Caucusus and then you are there. I believe we are talking around 3,000 + miles. The Germans couldn't do it with a larger Army than we had at the time, so what makes you think we could do it and conquer Japan at the same time? Why would we bother? Also, you have to garrison your lines of supply. Russia is a man and material eater.

236 235 Sub-Tard,

we were using 40% of able bodied males in active war zones at the time....

our force was more mobile, better fed, better equipped by '45 had a better air doctrine, a better moral standing, and a superior grasp of artillery use than the Germans....it would not have been a cakewalk but we could have done it....failing that we could have napalmed the baku fields.....

the futher east we drove Ivan's POL tail the easier our job.....

we had the airpower to create and enforce 100% traffic deserts....

I just don't see how Ivan could have lasted....add in that we would have had the combined pool of western and eastern EUrope to draw local anti-communist forces from for "free Poles, Free Czechs, etc etc and I think we'd have won....it would have extended the war 2-5 years but better that then playing mexican stand off w/H-bombs for 2 and half decades.

237

229

My point with math is hard is that eventually math will win.  The money will not be there to pay those benefits, no matter how much money was grifted off boomers paychecks going back the last 30 years.

But before the boomer elderly start stocking up on cat food, the elite entitled class of govt pensioners should take a huge haircut and find themselves in the same financial straits as the boomers who worked in the private sector.

Right now, if you work for govt you make more than double what your counterpart makes in the private sector.  Many govt workers pay nothing into their pension plan.  Many can retire under an early retirement option after 20 years on the job, and start collecting 80% of their final salary, forever.  With automatic 3% cost of living raises, forever.  That math will double your pension in what, 10 years?  Not to mention 'retiring' from one unit of govt and starting a new job with another unit of govt, with yet another pension.

Will be interesting to see how the Post Office situation is resolved.  They have 600,000 employees and 450,000 pensioners, what a surprise they're broke.

 

238 Since then, they've been pretty much overrun by the more typical kind of development.

Yeah, that may be true.  When I was living there we really did have good system of community buses and bike paths, so parents did not have shuttle kids everywhere, and the town was built around neighborhood centers.  Those centers had the basics (grocery store, barber shops, dry cleaners, banks, and perhaps a couple of more retail items), plus a community center (ours had a skating rink, others had tennis or swimming pools).  Then around the neighborhood centers there was high density housing (mostly apartments), which tended to be lower priced housing.  Then, as you radiated out you'd have the schools and medium-density housing (townhouses), then regular houses.  The idea was to help the business centers thrive by having the population base.  It also meant that your classmates came from a mix of socioeconomic backgrounds. 

There was also light industry - GE being one of the bigger employers - to try to help the dads (and moms) not have to commute into DC and Baltimore.  I think that idea wasn't as successful as the other ones.  Pretty much everyone I knew had parents who commuted. 

It was a good place to grow up. 

239 225 subtard - who needs to worry about geography when you had nuclear weapons AND Curtis LeMay     Jean, do I need to point out that Goering promised Hitler that he could crush the British at Dunkirk and resupply Stalingrad by air power? If Hitler had told him to go fuck himself and sent in the tanks at Dunkirk the 300k Britsh and French troops would have been captured and the possibility of a western front removed. Britian would not have had an Army and would have had to rebuild one from scratch. Had Hitler ignored Goerings air power gambit at Stalingrad he would have been forced to retreat and would have saved an entire Army Group. Air Power looks all clean and easy, but it takes ground pounders to secure a victory not airplanes. The beauty of our air power was we had something to counter German tanks with. Shermans were death traps.

240
all it takes to stay married is commitment (on both sides)

"on both sides" is the key word.

If she decides you've got to go, guess what? you're gone. Done. Finis. Changes the lock, drains the bank accounts, cashes out the investments and files a restraining order.

With a bit of luck you can avoid becoming hobo and running into Ace in a dark alley way.

Yes, I know. Find one you love and trust. And she can still do the above to me at any point down the line, no matter how much she professes an undying love today.

Sorry, I can't get Reagan's out of my mind: trust, but verify.

241

I just don't see how Ivan could have lasted....

 

sven, I've been to Russia and Ukraine, they lasted under much crueller conditions than you propose. Their ponies come running while your tank is frozen and no aircraft can fly. At that point you had better have more men and firepower organically cause their ain't no cavalry a comin.

242 he Baku oilfields are in Asia. You first have to move through Ukraine, through Russia into Georgia then steer south through the Caucusus and then you are there. I believe we are talking around 3,000 + miles. or go thru Iran

243 242 he Baku oilfields are in Asia. You first have to move through Ukraine, through Russia into Georgia then steer south through the Caucusus and then you are there. I believe we are talking around 3,000 + miles. or go thru Iran.   So we would need to maintain a front in Europe, a front in Asia and then a new front in Iran? Jean, logistics is a bitch. Better that you said you would invade the Black Sea and have interior lines of supply with naval supremacy than propose a land bridge across Iran to the Caspian. Shoosh. You could cut off oil from the Caspian by cutting the Volga. But this merely replays the entire battle of Stalingrad.

244 sub-tard; the other way into Baku - carrier battle groups in the Black Sea; or just to be mean a few B29s + ABombs, the way into Moscow is not pushing East thru the vast, it is have the naval and logistics power to punch South from the sea. The real problem would have been dealing with the cultural elites who had sold Stalin's sweet caresses to the masses at home.

245 "The idea was to help the business centers thrive by having the population base. It also meant that your classmates came from a mix of socioeconomic backgrounds." Another funny thing: I worked with a woman who was a USPS employee around 1970, and she worked at the Herndon post office. Back then, Herndon was a rural town, and there was no official "Reston, Va" since Reston was served from the Herndon post office. She told me that there was some kind of a tiff between Reston residents and the postmaster, and the postmaster directed that all mail addressed to "Reston, Va" be returned to sender. High-minded master planning notwithstanding, the good folks of Reston did not want anyone to think they lived in a hillbilly town.

246 Maintain what front in Asia? We had next to nothing on the continent and Russian had no seapower. No oil, no European front - hell we could just withdraw, move by sea and re-insert in finland or on the black sea coast - let the Russians wander around in war torn western europe - till they ran out of gas and had to walk home.

247 I'm all for vertigo archeologies my self.

248 verticle

249 "The real problem would have been dealing with the cultural elites who had sold Stalin's sweet caresses to the masses at home." Yes. The Cold War was an inside job.

250 Jean, do I need to point out that Goering promised Hitler that he could crush the British at Dunkirk and resupply Stalingrad by air power?

Does it need to be pointed out that the USAAF was not the Luftwaffe?

251 If we were going to go after Russia, we would've made some kind of deal with anti-Hitler generals because, at the least, we would need intelligence and logistical support from what remained of the Wehrmacht.  German soldiers would absolutely have helped us, and frankly, I think Eastern Europe would have too (as long as the Germans stayed on their side of the border).  The P-51 was the top fighter in 1945.  We had the B-29 in mass production.  Our tanks sucked, but we could've taken all the intel on all the available tanks and made great ones pretty quickly.  As for Baku and such, we could've sailed through the Black Sea.

It would've been messy, but we could've done it with little risk to the "homeland".  However, would it have been fair to our soldiers?  One other thing, if we would've wanted to invade Russia, we would've made our Great Landing somewhere in the Balkans rather than France.

252 I saw a cartoon once that showed a group of expectant people at the reading of a will. The caption read: "Being of sound mind - I spent every damn cent."

While I - for the most part - find my generation - the Boomers - to be the most useless generation of people ever to walk the face of America; I would like to point out that the "no inheritance" movement is the kindest thing they can do for those who follow.

There is a cycle to things: Hard times build hard people - hard people build soft times - soft times build soft people - soft people build hard times.

Historically: The depression built the hard people of the Greatest Generation - who won World War II, got us to the moon, defeated Communism and brought in the prosperity of the post war era. Sadly, the Greatest Generation - while they were wonderful at everything else - were crappy indulgent parents.  The soft times and prosperity they created in the post war era  created the soft spoiled Boomer generation. The soft spoiled Boomers have brought on the hard times we are starting to experience now.  Notice I said "starting to experience".

Monty is correct: there is Doom coming - prepare for hard times.

253 They finally put up the Santelli/friedman exchange video on CNBC.  took them long enough!

link

254 My point with math is hard is that eventually math will win.  The money will not be there to pay those benefits

Actually the cash will be there - the government will simply print it. Of course your $5000.00 a month Social Security check won't buy a loaf of bread and will thus be completely meaningless - but social security will continue. Name a big government program that has ended. The British still have people watching for Napoleon to make sure he doesn't invade by sea.

255 As a person who has had to spend hours and hours waiting in Social Security offices (NOT BY CHOICE!!), Patty Duke and Chubby Checker are the stars of the SSN-TV PSAs that loop endlessly on the TV in the SS offices. So it's funny you chose him as an example.

256 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

257 Welcome old and new customers to our purchasing products, believe you will love our store hats, also wish you purchase goods in our fun baseball hats Today the latest weight loss products, comprehensive large weight loss products sales site, to everyone's diet pills. slimming capsule