1 Soooo what's the endgame? The solution? Is there one?

2 Wow, Monty, I'm sure glad you came along to make sure I didn't go to bed happy tonight.  Can't we enjoy the victory in WI for a little while?

3 Shoot me in the head, then.

4 It's gonna get real ugly soon...

5 1 Soooo what's the endgame? The solution? Is there one?

Only chaos. 

Between our debt-bomb, Europe's impending financial calamity, the chaos in the ME, China's impending bubble burst...  the future does look bleak. 

6 1 Soooo what's the endgame? The solution? Is there one?

Here it is:  http://ferfal.blogspot.com/ and http://survivalblog.com/

7 "There is no political solution to this dilemma because neither the citizens nor the politicians are willing to do what is necessary." Bingo.

8 Soooo what's the endgame? The solution? Is there one?

Well...there's debt-default, I guess. But I don't think Americans will like that much either. When the holder of the world's reserve currency defaults, truly bad shit will rain down. A Greece or an Ireland can default and no one gives a shit; Russia can default, and the waves rock the boat but don't upset it. An American default would be a tidal wave, a 100-year flood, a 9.5 earthquake.

So...what then? I don't know, honestly. Americans seem to think that we can just go on this way forever. That somehow, someway, by magic, our debt will just not matter. That we can keep our enormous welfare state on a paying basis in spite of the fact that it's bleeding us dry.

To me, it's a simple question of thermodynamics. We don't have enough energy to maintain the system. It will run down unless we reduce the amount of energy the system is using. Our only real choice is to manage this slowdown ourselves, or just run the machine full-blast and then blink like stupid sheep when it just stops all of a sudden five or ten years down the road.

9

Paul Ryan on Greta's show:

Debt is Heading to Catastrophic Levels

His charts are back, this time the ones from his PowerPoint presentation. Charts included @ the link.

10 what the hell kind of ONT is this?

11 I thought it was unfixable?

Technically, it's very fixable. Slash entitlement spending by half, jack taxes up by 20%, and reduce our military spending by about a third.

Now...does anyone think that any of that is actually going to happen?

The unfixable part is the human beings who make up the nation, not the fiscal problem itself.

12 Ahh, horseshit. The banks and creditors will either stop lending (unlikely) or pretend that the US Gubbmint ain't broke (much more likely). Sad, but true.

13 Maybe when California finally goes belly up.. and it will go first ...it will be the cold slap in the face the rest of the country needs... one can only hope

14 I hope ya'all like sex, cause we are really most sincerely boned.

15 what the hell kind of ONT is this?

I have obviously drank too little or way too much.

16 11 what the hell kind of ONT is this?

One of DOOM!  Behold the future, and despair! 

17 but seriously, I think we need to begin planning a pathway to high inflation and insolvency. That is, we have to begin assuming these things are going to happen, and begin designing the least worst form of hyperinflation and insolvency. The American people want doom. So they shall have it. That is the good and the ill of a democracy; if the people vote for irresponsiblity and calamity, they shall have it. But given this fact, we need to start making the best of things, planning for the post-default, super-high-inflation era.

18 The pain comes in June when the Bernank quits propping up the whole house of cards .

19
Now...does anyone think that any of that is actually going to happen?

There is no other option.

20 Most liberals believe we are doomed do to environmental collapse anyway, so screw the future. They will not cooperate to fix the problem, anymore then a death room inmate is going to watch his calories at his last meal.

Of course the irony will be when the economy really collapses, no one will give a crap about global warming or any of the other enviro-scares...

21 The American people want doom. So they shall have it.

Fuck you.

22 Right now, don't want to hear it.   I'll worry about that tomorrow.   I just want to enjoy busting leftist balls tonight!

23 16 I hope ya'all like sex, cause we are really most sincerely boned.

This isn't sex.  Sex implies love - this is a full financial rape about to beset every man, women, and child in the United States.   And then there will be world-wide repercussions. 

24 Damn, Monty.  Thanks for the buzz-kill. 

25 Fuck you Monty, I got Tiger Blood to drink.

26 Maybe when California finally goes belly up.. and it will go first ...it will be the cold slap in the face the rest of the country needs... one can only hope

Posted by: SoCalMe at March 09, 2011 09:15 PM (bKnnS)

Let's hope Breitbart and Co can counteract the media spin when the mean Republican refuse to bailout CA.

Perhaps contrast the tax and spend Hollywood elite with the people who can really no longer find work?

27

Monty

Ditch the friggin kitten. When you deliver news like this, I WANT TITS!

28 We can only hope that whatever comes next or whatever is forced on us will allow us to exploit our natural resources, and cannel our productive energies without the secular religion the EPA and the Unions have saddled the first American Republic with.

29 So where do i put my money?

30 This isn't sex.  Sex implies love - this is a full financial rape about to beset every man, women, and child in the United States.   And then there will be world-wide repercussions. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 09, 2011 09:17 PM (b0yIY)

But it isn't financial rape-rape.

31 No one does DOOM quite as well as Monty. That is a compliment.
 
Rand Paul comes close to telling it like it is, but is dismissed as a Ron Paul surrogate. Chris Christie is nibbling around the edges, but NJ is still in deep doodoo longer term even with his changes.
 
Ah well, we have front row tickets to the greatest disaster story in several hundred years.

32 Rape is not sex.

33 So where do i put my money? PM's , Silver , gold and lead .

34   It's actually worse than what she shows - if inflation is part of the mix.  Not only does the inflation raise borrowing costs, many of the entitlement programs are inflation-indexed, so they will march higher in an exponential rise of their own.

35 I just want to enjoy busting leftist balls tonight!

Yeah, I kind of feel bad about harshing the mellow.

And this is actually a significant fiscal victory, because it gives other state governors ammunition to make the same changes in their own states. Still -- the reforms may be too little and too late. And many will still have to survive the gauntlet of the courts, because I assure you that every union man-jack will run to a judge insisting that their benefits are vested and cannot be removed. And many judges (especially in the Democratic strongholds of California and Illinois and New Jersey) will agree with them. So future benefits will be curtailed, but existing ones probably will not be touched in any meaningful way. (Except by the rough hand of fate, that is.)

36 At least the girls get kittehs!

37 Monty, what are the chances they keep everything propped up until november 2012, or is it totally out of our hands now?

38 The endgame is that when the banks stop lending money to the government, some unlucky party loses an election, and the other party stands up and says that "the time for tough choices is here." Then the cut the entitlements and everyone is angry at the last party in power. This happened in Canada. It happened in Sweden. It happened in New Zealand. Its not always the party on the right that gets to make the "tough" decisions, and rightly so, as they often got co-opted into the game.

39 I'll worry about that tomorrow. 

No offense meant Steph (and this isn't a hit on you, but just on this sentiment), but that was the attitude that got us in this situation in the first place.  "Eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we die".

But the financial laws of reality spoke up and said: "You fool!  Tonight your debts will come due and what will be livelihoods be then?".

40 I hope you're making good $$$ Monty.

Because in a few years you're gonna be spending lots of it to keep me warm, cool and full of food and liquor.

I'll help you out by buying my own beer.

41 But given this fact, we need to start making the best of things, planning for the post-default, super-high-inflation era.

How? Looking for some answers here. I guess read One Second After and prepare accordingly?

42
So...what then? I don't know, honestly. Americans seem to think that we can just go on this way forever. That somehow, someway, by magic, our debt will just not matter. That we can keep our enormous welfare state on a paying basis in spite of the fact that it's bleeding us dry.

People generally presume that the current conditions will continue to prevail when they think about the future. You can see it in every field of prediction.

So I think one think we need to focus on educating the public about is how government actions now, and the summation of past actions, are effecting them in the here and now. Gas prices are probably a good place to start... 

43

Rand Paul comes close to telling it like it is, but is dismissed as a Ron Paul surrogate. Chris Christie is nibbling around the edges, but NJ is still in deep doodoo longer term even with his changes.

I really like Rand Paul. He's not his father. He's the only person openly talking about what's going on. He's openly calling for 500 billion in cuts(which still isn't enough).

Don't blame the son for the sins of the asshole father.

44 uh, as I've always said, we just need to be fiscally uh responsible and uh I've proposed a 20 kajillion dollar stimulus plan to win the future.

45 We missed our chance when you know who went all-in unserious with the Crapulus and then used the resulting budget + Crapulus as the new baseline....just as this moron predicted.

Theoretically, we could grow our way out, but not with cowboy poetry, mandated health insurance, and high speed rail.

46 Wouldn't it be great if this is what eventually converts millions of teat-suckling welfare ticks into productive members of society?

I can dream...

47 Ditch the friggin kitten. When you deliver news like this, I WANT TITS!

Or you could combine the two.

48 Monty, what are the chances they keep everything propped up until november 2012, or is it totally out of our hands now?

Posted by: Ben at March 09, 2011 09:21 PM (DKV43)

If Obama cared about 2012 he wouldn't be banning oil drilling in the Gulf...

49 Uh, the linked pic may be NSFW. Not sure.

50

Bill Gross of Pacific Investment Management Co. (PIMCO) is no great fan of  U.S. government debt to start with: His fund also zeroed out its holdings of Uncle SamÂ’s IOUs back in 2009, but had added some back into the portfolio. No more. HeÂ’s not buying what Washington is selling, and heÂ’s urging others to dump U.S. bonds, too. Bloomberg reports:

Gross in his February commentary urged investors to reduce holdings of Treasuries and U.K. gilts and buy higher-returning securities such as debt from emerging-market nations. “Old-fashioned gilts and Treasury bonds may need to be ‘exorcised’ from model portfolios and replaced with more attractive alternatives both from a risk and a reward standpoint,” Gross wrote.

51 The new Iceland.

52 In the end, there will be only................... family.

53 So, in 2013, with a Republican White House and Congress, we chop all entitlements in half, balance the budget, and let the old people die. I'm in - and I'm old.

54

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 09:23 PM (aKs7L)

By Gad, thats the first time I ever wanted to trade places with a cat.

55 But the financial laws of reality spoke up and said: "You fool!  Tonight your debts will come due and what will be livelihoods be then?".

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 09, 2011 09:21 PM (b0yIY)

I know, but I, honestly, can't do shit about it tonight, and I refuse to let my mellow get harshed.

56 I really like Rand Paul. He's not his father. He's the only person openly talking about what's going on. He's openly calling for 500 billion in cuts(which still isn't enough).

And he recognizes that even $500B is not enough, and yet the public debate is $61B versus $5B.

That's like finding out you are about to be foreclosed on, and while buying a new car, arguing about whether you should also book a vacation to Hawaii or not.

57 lauraw's kitteh is humping a friggin' sex toy.
Ho, boy. 
That's a great metaphor for the upcoming final reckoning, bro. 
Give the hunchback my regards, Doom-Boy, - while you still can.

58 So, in 2013, with a Republican White House and Congress, we chop all entitlements in half, balance the budget, and let the old people die. I'm in - and I'm old.

Posted by: Old Sailor at March 09, 2011 09:25 PM (/Ft4q)

The problem is, only a handful of Republicans have that kind of guts. And even presuming they win a majority in Congress and the Presidency, the State Media, the bureaucracy, and the courts will fight them tooth and nail.

59 So future benefits will be curtailed, but existing ones probably will not be touched in any meaningful way. (Except by the rough hand of fate, that is.)

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 09:20 PM (FC+dS)

My local news guy (Ohio) had a lawyer on the other day and he said that, at least for most public unions, their contracts have either been signed in the last few months or are in the process of being signed.  He said that the Ohio anti-union/Dem bill actually means shit because the local/state gov't have already signed on to give the union workers 2 - 3% raises each year for the next 3 to 5 years.

Also, most contracts had workers only paying 3-10% of healthcare.

All this outrage by the freaking unions, at it won't effect them at all for at least 3 years, most likely 5.

60 Posted by: wildwood Iceland basically told the IMF to go fuck themselves and are on the road to recovery .

61 Then the cut the entitlements and everyone is angry at the last party in power.

Which of the 2012 Repub candidates has the balls for it? (That is a trick question.)

62 63:   Well even better then.

63

37 They may -- then again, the blue states are looking at their own problems which will involve union busting of some kind.  I think IL is getting ready to start -- it will be quieter than in WI, and nastier.  The unions, in their greed and stupidity, have just done themselves in; the bosses will be fine, but the little indians have just gotten themselves royally frakked...I'm wondering if a nationalization of the unions won't happen in the next two years?  It's a possiblity.

Maybe default was the intention all along?  I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't.

64 Which of the 2012 Repub candidates has the balls for it? (That is a trick question.)

Posted by: arhooley at March 09, 2011 09:29 PM (zfsWH)

Repubs don't have balls, they either have great tits or man boobs.

65 45 I really like Rand Paul. He's not his father. He's the only person openly talking about what's going on. He's openly calling for 500 billion in cuts(which still isn't enough).   With all due respect, Ben, no, he's not the only one. The members of the Republican Study Committee have been quite active on this. Paul Ryan has been incredibly vocal about the debt & deficit threat, as have colleagues Mike Pence, Michele Bachmann, James Lankford, Jeff Flake, Todd Rokita, & a number of other people. That's not counting the other senators mentioning this as well, from Jim DeMint to Jeff Sessions (of all people). Just because it's not reported in the MBM doesn't mean it's not real.  

66 Monty, what are the chances they keep everything propped up until november 2012, or is it totally out of our hands now?

You know, I'm quickly losing the ability to even pretend to optimism any more. The numbers are just getting so scary that I can't even come up with scenarios on how we'd get ourselves out of this hole. I've joked before that too many plans for recovery revolve around the "And then a miracle occurs!" principle, but I find myself thinking that's really our only hope.

And I stress: the problem itself is huge, but fixable -- it's the human beings that are the problem. When half of the population pays no income tax at all, and a third of all the wages are in the form of a government welfare check...man, I just don't see Americans rising to the challenge. Not in enough numbers to make a difference, anyway.

You want a real bummer of a prediction? Financial collapse, civil war, and global violence that dwarfs the stuff we're seeing now. People still don't understand the stabilizing force that the US Dollar has as the reserve currency. There is no replacement for it -- not the Yuan (which is pegged to the USD anyway), and not the Euro. If the dollar goes, that's it -- the world economy goes right down with it.

67 Thanks for the young Pussy.

68 One for the folks out there that are smarter than me (aka everyone). This is not to say that this will ever happen, but let's pretend that adults went to Congress and the White House and simply said, "Okay, the truth is that we fucked up. In reality, social security and all entitlements have never been anything but delusional ponzi schemes that could never do anything but create a black hole into which we pour trillions of dollars that we don't have. On top of that, we spent all the money that everyone put into this scheme and left nothing but a pile of IOUs written on bar napkins. So here's the deal. Everyone who is eligible for benefits for, oh lets say the next 10 years, will get what was promised. We'll borrow enough cash to make good on that. Otherwise, social security tax is hereby repealed for everyone and you had damn well better save it and create your own retirement account or give birth to kids that will be rich and willing to put your geriatric ass up at their place & pay your medical bills for the rest of your life. In other words, you can have your 6.2% back, but you ain't getting nothing from the government for anything... ever. Sorry, but this is how things should have been all along and hopefully we can all move forward and use this as a lesson in why no one should trust anyone else, especially the government, with their money or their well being." Would something like that make a difference?

69

Would a giant war help clean it up? Not advocating or hoping for anything like that, but based on what happened in 1939, I'm serious.

70 This is bad news.
PIMCO dumps government debt
Soon all these funds are going to be dumping T-Bills.
Bye-Bye Dollar.

71 So, I really should put my entire tax refund into freeze dried food and ammo, is that what you are saying?

Here's an endgame: The dissolution of the United States of America as currently configured. We'll refudiate the debt and start over, split into three countries; Pacifica on the West Coast, New Atlantis in the North East, and the  United States of Texas everywhere else.

72 When do the bank runs start?

73 I've thought about becoming an ex-pat, but I have too much invested in this sinking country to do that.  I suppose I'll go down with the ship.

74 When do the bank runs start?

April

75 You can't post this shit right before my bedtime man.

76 Bill Gross, who runs the worldÂ’s biggest bond fund at Pacific Investment Management Co., eliminated government-related debt from his flagship fund last month as the U.S. projected record budget deficits.

77

it doesn't matter if there's a politician who has the balls to advocate for what's right- he can't win. Too many Americans are sucking at the public teat- and they will never let go. even as the house goes up in flames, we will not let go.

we've been enslaved by the welfare state, yet we will not relinquish our chains.

gird your loins. the reckoning is coming and it will be ugly

78 Iceland basically told the IMF to go fuck themselves and are on the road to recovery .

Oh yeah? Nobody fucks with the Impossible Mission Force. We'll just see about that recovery.

79 Completely O/T & apologies....

I was hoping I could send donations to the family in Loysville PA that lost 7 kids in that terrible fire recently but I'm not finding anything. If anyone knows, please post.

80 Would something like that make a difference?

Damiano,

That's the generic misunderstanding of SS and Medicare/aid.  They are pay as you go programs that are already in the red.  the current deficit, while bad enough, pales in comparison to the unfunded obligations that are coming.

81 So, in 2013, with a Republican White House and Congress, we chop all entitlements in half, balance the budget, and let the old people die.

Man, don't joke about that. I know I come off as a geezer-hater in my SS threads, but the truth is I love the old folks and I don't want them to have to deal with this shit (which is why I rant about SS so much -- they're pinning their hopes on a mirage). Come down to it, protecting the young, the weak, and the aged is part of what we have civilization for. If we can't even do that, we don't deserve to survive.

82 So now would be a good time to run up debt that you know you are never going to be able to pay back right?

83 73 Beto,

that's old news in a way but yeah basically the multi-billions are going to tell Barry "fuck off" and they are going to fart on a GOP that can't roll Harry "cowboy poetry" Reid.....

the ONLY thing that will save the world economy is a new resource rush and I think to get there we're likely going to have to have a global war or two.

84
Iceland basically told the IMF to go fuck themselves and are on the road to recovery .

Oh yeah? Nobody fucks with the Impossible Mission Force. We'll just see about that recovery.

Lucky for Iceland, the contract burned up after they signed it.

85

I was hoping I could send donations to the family in Loysville PA that lost 7 kids in that terrible fire

Saw that on WGAL.com. Very sad.

86 Is this doomed, doomed?

87 Would a giant war help clean it up?

Not really, but I believe that is also inevitable.

88 Like, ending-in-chaos doomed?

89 I think to get there we're likely going to have to have a global war or two.

Posted by: sven10077 at March 09, 2011 09:36 PM (kq1lG)

Happens every time.

90 92 Like, ending-in-chaos doomed?

Pretty much. 

/I'm not kidding - this whole thing is being held together with love and crating tape at the moment. 

91 My predictions are:

1) We'll let old people die. Hip hurts? Here, have some morphine. Cancer? Here's some morphine and a hospice phone #.

Morphine and hospice care are cheap. Free cable in your hospice room!

2) Social security will pay less and start at an older age. Remember, if you don't want to work -- there's always hospice.

3) Taxes will go up. A lot. Probably a VAT.

And just wait a couple more decades when the impacts of the fast-rising hispanic population and Mexifornication of America really plays out.

2030= a broke America deciding whether to pay Medicaid for the poor, young hispanics or Medicare for the old, dying white people.

Tomorrow's racial politics are gonna be real ugly.

92

Would a giant war help clean it up? Not advocating or hoping for anything like that, but based on what happened in 1939, I'm serious.

no, simply based on the fact we would be the nation fighting it.

Part of the reason we made so much money off the second world war was because France, England, Russia and others were over a barrell. They needed what we could produce and had to pay any price. So we took them to the cleaners, let Russia do most of the hard fighting, and then came in towards the end and swept up.  Acutally. I think the British just recently finished paying off the lend lease program in the past few years.

Whereas if any great war started, it would in all likelihood involved us.

93 All this outrage by the freaking unions, at it won't effect them at all for at least 3 years, most likely 5.

Just in time for the next election, where the unions will run on a campaign of "those evil Republicans hate teachers, vote Democrat and we'll restore the dignity of teachers" when they wouldn't have been affected anyway in the slightest

genius (on their part)

94 I don't know about the survival prospects of what was once the greatest political creation on Earth, but I luv me some cute kittehs.

95 95 Clubber,

that's what Ogabecaree was about....

the democrats always eat the old, poor, and young first.....

96 Monty,

I had a very nice meal this evening (and I was careful to clean up as I cooked so there was essentially nothing to do after dinner). Veal chop (tail on!) with a shallot cream sauce. My wife even tasted my red wine.

You ruined it.

97 Actually, we can grow our way out of the situation, but it would require some old-time Roman stuff.  Conquering, pillaging, and enslaving does allow for some pretty spectacular growth.  Of course, we won't actually do it on a grand scale, but as things get bad here, I'd be shit-scared if I was a Mexican or Canadian.  Those two might be in line for a little annexation down the road.  Lotta natural resources in both places.

98 Having the government issue money( debt free ) , instead of the private bank known as the Fed issue Federal Reserve Notes ( at interest ) would be a good start ...... again , prolly too late .

99 101 FCI,

don't look now fella but Mexopolis has "peacefully" invaded us.

100 The only solution that would really work -- draconian cuts to entitlement programs and a serious effort to pay down the national debt -- would require a level of austerity that few Americans have the stomach for.

Well, reality has a way of asserting itself.  We'll either have austerity as a choice or it will be imposed upon us as a collapse.

101 When Money Dies - Adam Fergusson

Referred by Monty a few months back.

Read it and prepare.

102

Would a giant war help clean it up?

It used to be that country looking to fill its coffers would just invade its weaker neighbors and take all the valuable shit.  I think its time we looked seriously at reviving this storied tradition.

Does Canada have anything good?

103 39 Monty, what are the chances they keep everything propped up until november 2012...

THIS.

104 I think to get there we're likely going to have to have a global war or two.

Some potential scenarios that are high on my list of "possibles" before 2025:

1. A nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India.
2. North Korea attacks South Korea (and maybe Japan), either with conventional weapons or with nukes.
3. Iran and Saudi Arabia throw down to find out whether the Sunnis or the Shi'a get to control the fate of Islam in the Middle East. If Iran has nuclear weapons, they'll use them. Most of the middle east would go to war, and Israel would be a prime target from all sides.

105 Wheeeeeeee!!!!

106

Ditch the friggin kitten. When you deliver news like this, I WANT TITS!

man, Pam Anderson has really let herself go.

107

Does Canada have anything good?

Oil, Timber, Uranium, Potash, Maple Syrup and Sidney Crosby.

 

108 Isn't it cool George W. Bush pushed through another Medicare entitlement!

109 Michael Moore (D-Bag) is about to pop a vein on Maddow's show. Let's all cross our fingers.

110 I embrace my family's political legacy.

111 Remember the Hertz !

112 Come down to it, protecting the young, the weak, and the aged is part of what we have civilization for. If we can't even do that, we don't deserve to survive.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 09:35 PM (FC+dS)

 

That's going to be the test in the next few years -- can we do it?  Better yet, can we distinguish when a politician is working against these things, but presenting it all in a pretty package that promises us we'll get ours back?  Or will we fall for the old con, like other people throughout history have? 

I think we're going to soon find out....God have mercy on us if we choose wrong (coming from a severely relapsed Catholic even).

113 Hell, I like big government.

114

The Invisible Hand.  Sometimes it guides you.  Sometimes it smacks the shit out of you.

115 Also, spend some time at Monty Perelin's World blog.

116 You ruined it.

Enter my octagon! You cannot deal with this warlock!

Who knew that Charlie Sheen would be one of the avatars of the Apocalypse?

117

I keep telling you people:

High. Speed. Rail.

118

I think to get there we're likely going to have to have a global war or two.

Some potential scenarios that are high on my list of "possibles" before 2025:

1. A nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India.
2. North Korea attacks South Korea (and maybe Japan), either with conventional weapons or with nukes.
3. Iran and Saudi Arabia throw down to find out whether the Sunnis or the Shi'a get to control the fate of Islam in the Middle East. If Iran has nuclear weapons, they'll use them. Most of the middle east would go to war, and Israel would be a prime target from all sides.

Yeah, but 2 and 3 directly involve us because we have troops either in those countries or that area.

I agree with 1. I have been saying for some time now that Pakistan will be nuked. Someone is going to do it. It's inevitable. They keep producing nukes while their government teeters. It's going to happen. One day we will wake up and there will be mushroom clouds over Islamabad.

119

The Dark Times are coming.  You can't stop it.  Hell, even our older "conservative" readers don't want to stop it. 

No one wants to be the first to take their fucking medicine.  But it is going to be administered, sooner or later.  Sure, the camphor component tastes nasty, but you're REALLY not going to enjoy the suppository form.

I am not the go-to guy for the intracacies of microeconomics.  But I know human nature.  Everyone is digging in their heels, and we are going to ride this motherfucker all the way down to impact.

 

That kitteh?  Start fattening it up now.  That's rations on the hoof in a few years.

120 So does my dad.  So does my mom.  So does Laura.  So does Barbara.  So does Rove.  So does W.

Because government is only beneficent.  We're here to help you and to care for you.  And be kinder and gentler.

121 Point of clarification:  Lend Lease repayments were at a 90% discount at 2% interest.  We did not, in fact, make out like bandits.

122 well then if Monty's right, here comes that good old-timey socialist revolution.  Because the socialist thinking is just too deeply ingrained into our culture nowadays, if the shit really did hit the fan, there'd be riots in the streets blaming "the rich" and demanding outright nationalization and expropriation of their assets.

123 And in the 2030 racial politics we'll have two important facts:

1) Old people vote. So we'll have old, sick whites voting for more Medicare and Social Security.

but, on the other hand

2) Young people riot. They can march in the streets and pull a Cairo or Wisconsin. So we'll have young hispanics marching in the streets and rioting for more Medicaid and welfare and calling the old "anglos" vampires who feed on the young.

We won't have the money for both groups and each will wield a powerful political stick.

124 Yeah, well.................................................look! There's basketball on!

125

That kitteh?  Start fattening it up now.  That's rations on the hoof in a few years.

If I remember correctly, during the wars, Germans would call cats "house rabbits", because they didn't want to eat their dogs.

126 Austerity? I know nobody who sucks on the government teat. Balance the fucking budget by zeroing entitlements to any able-bodied person. Children and mothers last, but don't give the breeders a loophole. Cancel about two dozen federal agencies. Soup kitchens and bread lines are better than the collapse of American society.

Fuck 'em all.

Once the budget is balanced we'll grow our way out of the deficit in 15-20 years.

127 Monty's right, doom's a' coming. I realized this back in 2004, and started buying gold and silver. My ROI on them is 191.60%, according to Quicken. I also have a whacking big chunk of change in a bear fund, so you can see how I've been betting. I expect only my metals will be worth much in the future...until the government calls them in at pennies on the dollar like they did in 1933. The bear fund? Pelosi is already squawking about banning them. I hear Friskies is the best-tasting cat food.... Things ARE going to fall apart. Frankly, the shrewd political move for conservatives would be to set up to be in a good place to pick up the pieces afterwards, rather than trying to hold back the tide right now. Sadly, panicked people eagerly grab at socialism and even communism. "Outlook is bleak," says my Magic 8-Ball.

128 108 Monty,

all those scenarios are likely....

I think what's going to happen is we're going to see arms sales o up in the next decade and one of those will occur.

China is going to take Taiwan, we're going to let it happen....

China will at that point hit Japan and we will not let that go undeterred.....

a "calm war" will go on navally and aerial for about 5 years and then we're going to land on Taiwan and or Japan.

China's fatal flaw as a superpower is its lac of SEA and Strategic Airlift, BUT in either of the two scenarios they can get by with the use of local sea and airheads.

The Sunnis are going to wipe the shiites out with our and europe's help probably putting EUrostan on hold for another 50 years, India will help us jam China and India and China will go back down to second tier powers.....

the rresults of the first five years of this 25 year timeline will be the reurn of scared western businesses to the European Union and US  but it will still be a swirling toilet bowl economically.

the ONLY good thing I can see is that the Granola Munchers will get lynched as people struggle to heat their homes and get to work.

129 Oil, Timber, Uranium, Potash, Maple Syrup and Sidney Crosby.

well 5 out of 6 are worth it - invade!

130 Heh heh heh heh heh.  We felt like gubment should be paying for prescriptions.  Because that's the nice thing to do.  And it might make me look good.

131 Today i heard the handouts like welfare referred to as "wages" by real people and on the media.  Why are they referring to it as "wages"?  Aren't they a gift from their fellow citizens not something they've earned which I thought was what wages are, something you earn?

132 Sometimes I think to myself that I'm too happy, and it would best be solved by a rather bitter thrashing from reality.  The kind of beating that brings  aman to his knees and makes him realize all life is pain and suffering.

And then Monty posts this.

Thank you, Monty.

I swallow this bitter pill gladly.

133 The solution: Elect a new President in 2012 and add some conservatives to the senate. Then their focus right away in 2013...a Ryan roadmap or Ryan roadmap style reform of the entitlements PLUS a brand new energy policy that will create jobs, keep more money in america and encourage economic growth, all of which will help the deficit situation. That is Job 1, 2, and 3. I know this is almost impossible because it requires the Republicans to be impervious to the left wing/media demagoguery on how we are killing children by starvation etc. However, I believe it can be done. We just need real leaders. I encourage everyone to read the Ryan roadmap.

134 Kitty don't care and neither do the Honey Badger.

135 Shorter Monty: We're boned-boned. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

136 Why are they referring to it as "wages"?

Oh I don't know...

137 Heh heh heh heh heh.  What this country needs is more Rockefeller Republicans.  Because we're nicer.  And we want to do more for you. 

138 "DOOM, Served Hot Off the Grill"

Old. And most of you won't fit in my bunker. Sorry. Start watching Thunderdome more as a training manual than dystopian art.

139 No doubt it looks bleak. Yet, here is one thing I sort of cling to for a bright side. If the world economy crashed and burned tomorrow, the US would still be able to grow enough food for us all. Our infrastructure would still be intact. We have sufficient energy resources that could eventually be brought online.
 
We wouldn't be able to import many toys, and those would have to be paid for cash and carry style. We would have to relearn how to make a bunch of things like circuit boards. Barter would be the name of the game. Savings, pensions -- these would be wiped out for the most part. Charity would begin at home once again.
 
All this is null and void if someone lobs a few nukes at us though.

140

Maybe those things will happen; then again -- always expect the unexpected thing.  Are dark times potentially on us?  They already are -- those welfare numbers didn't get there just by people being lazy bums -- will they get worse; probably.  But then there is always the unexpected thing.

If America can keep its head (or get it back and keep it, rather), then it may not turn out as badly as people fear it will.

141

Point of clarification:  Lend Lease repayments were at a 90% discount at 2% interest.  We did not, in fact, make out like bandits.

If I'm not mistaken, we gave them old ships we were going to dispose of anyway, got paid for them, and also got most of their overseas military bases.

And the Russians paid in gold if i remember correctly.

oh and we didn't have to really do any fighting until 1943 in Europe. So it bought us that, as without it England probably wouldn't have held on.

142 144 GnuBreed,

well on the nuking us part....

"luckily" Chicago Je$u$ has basically said he will NOT use nukes in response.....

"thanks barry"

143 144 Yeah,residual wealth.We have alot of stuff collected and can make it last,we will have less pain than some other parts of the world.

144

Here is the solution. 

Let families opt out of the entitlement programs and the associated taxes.  But once they do, they are opting out for themselves and their decendents, in perpetuity.  Let people decide if they want to live in a free country.

A heck of a lot of people will prefer to keep their own money.  The ones who prefer to be maintained on the dole will be fewer and easier to support.  The younger people will drop out in a heartbeat.

So, once this problem generation, the dependent class that is currently over 50 years old or so, die off, this problem will be solved.  Keep Obamacare, and we can speed up that day even more. 

145 Yeah, Taiwan is doomed. We should stop selling them new mil-tech now since anything we sell them will end up in ChiCom hands by 2025 or so.

146

Conservatism's problem is that it hasn't been compassionate enought.  Those Dems outcompassion us every time.  We really need to up our game.

Oh, and this'll help us pick up all those new Hispanic voters.

147

We're not going to be able to solve this in time and quite frankly I'm not sure why that's surprising. The whole storm has been years in the making and was always going to happen some day; the only question is when and how/where to weather it.

148 There is a really simple solution to this problem, and it is the solution which will appeal to the government when this train comes off the tracks.  The government will simply stop, or severly reduce, sending out SS checks and stop re imbursing medicare. Anyone who believes the government is going to keep their promises to the citizens is delusional.

149 We do not have to balance the budget in one year to avert catastrophe. We need cuts, and growth. Then we hold the line on spending, while continuing growth, and 5 years down the road we have a very serviceable debt level. It will take INCREDIBLE DISCIPLINE, but it can be done. We never have to eliminate the current debt we already have accumulated. If we could keep it at its current level, and just grow the economy, debt service would not be a problem and eventually we could pay down the principle. The reason we are so screwed is that we just keep adding more and more and more to the debt principle, and Obama is now adding to it at a rate that is unprecedented.

150 150 We haven't sold Taiwan that China doesn't already know about.

151 I never lied to you.

152 If I'm not mistaken, we gave them old ships we were going to dispose of anyway, got paid for them, and also got most of their overseas military bases.

That was just the beginning.  Lend Lease covered about 50 billion dollars in all kinds of things.  The initial destroyer/base swap with Britain was to give them convoy escorts and strengthen our then hemispheric-only defense focus.

I have never read anything that indicates the Soviets paid in gold.

153 GnuBreed: "the US would still be able to grow enough food for us all."

Not necessarily. I suggest everyone start growing gills.

154 157 Indeed,Lend Lease required no payment.He is thinking of the earlier "cash and carry" policy,which belligerents could buy whatever they wanted,cash and provide shipping to carry it home.

155 155 Steevy,

that's true Taiwan is a lot like Israel, and Japan they take our basic kit and add better electronics packages and engines to their liking....

the F-15J is awesome.

156 Not necessarily. I suggest everyone start growing gills.

Waterworld!

157 15 product warning labels brought about either by frivilous lawsuits or idiots, not to be confused with morons who can use the products with impunity but like the Honey Badger 'don't give a shit!'  http://tinyurl.com/63gfb7q

158 One misapprehension (among the multitudes) that leftists suffer from is their historical ignorance. They think that history only ever moves in one direction. They forget all the sweep of past history.

Consider the decline and fall of Rome as a prime example. Life was probably better for an average farmer or tradesman in the year 0 than it was in 1000AD, or even 1500AD. It's entirely possible -- and historically not all that uncommon -- for "progress" to be arrested and even rolled back. The fall of Rome ushered in two thousand years of retrograde motion that was reversed only by the European renaissance.

The "fall" wasn't a one time event, either -- it was a gradual weakening, a slow rot from within. It was a death of knowledge, of quality, of convenience, and comfort. It was a slow debasement of everything the citizens had built over the previous centuries. We are fools if we think it can't happen again.

159 @Kratos,

I know that you are a fan of chaos, but how do you feel about entropy?

160
Is this O/T or not? Publishers Marketplace announces:

Known as the "Ground Zero imam," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's MOVING THE MOUNTAIN, inviting readers to a deeper understanding of the role of Muslims in America and in the world, triggering an entirely new conversation about Islam, informed by his own experiences and teachings and presenting the reality of American Muslims today

161

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 09:35 PM (FC+dS)

I really, really hope you're right about that.  I completely buy into the fact that it's only a matter of time, and probably not much at that, until everything truly goes to hell.  The problem is that, as a widow with four minor children, I don't know what to do about it. 

 I got a life insurance settlement that was meant to take care of us for my lifetime but don't know what to do with it.  Inflation means I can't keep it in cash, scarcity/higher prices means I need cash.  The stock market is insane, the muni bonds could be repudiated at any time and this adversarial attitude of the government hardly makes it a good time to invest in a business.  Is commodities all that's left?  I don't really want to get into that market because I can't even time when to fill up my car without paying the highest price.

I'm honestly asking.  What do I do?  My husband was an accountant and was so good at all of this.  He tried so hard to hang on to spare my being in this exact situation but just couldn't.

Sorry for the rant.  I'm honestly scared and it seems like all I get anywhere else is "don't worry, it'll all work out" and I don't believe it will. 

162 The kitty actually makes it worse. 

163

That kitteh?  Start fattening it up now.  That's rations on the hoof in a few years.

Case in point (skip to 1:14): http://tinyurl.com/2cv3xjv

164

The fall of Rome ushered in two one thousand years of retrograde motion that was reversed only by the European renaissance.

FIFY

165 163 I've been using the Rome analogy for at least 15-20 years and I'm only 38.I saw the decline coming,always hoped it would be averted(did what I could to contribute).

166 Who will change the hearts and minds of our youth after 16+ years of socialist brainwashing within the state-sponsored education system?

Can you, as a parent, accept and acknowledge that, maybe, just maybe, your child is beyond reconciliation and recompense?   Can you, breeder that you are, abandon your existing demon seed and accept a new covenant, abandon your children, and start anew?

See me after class.

167 The "fall" wasn't a one time event, either -- it was a gradual weakening, a slow rot from within. It was a death of knowledge, of quality, of convenience, and comfort. It was a slow debasement of everything the citizens had built over the previous centuries. We are fools if we think it can't happen again.

But we're SMARTER now.  We've got iPods and stuff.

/blistering sarcasm

168 Speaking of a bit of the old ultraviolence -- what's the over/under on whether the "demonstration" by the union thugs in Madison tomorrow turns into an all-out riot? I presume that there are going to be a lot of Tea Party-type folks there as well, and I suspect that things are going to be a bit...fraught.

169 We cannot tax our way out of this hole.


Doesn't matter, as the problem gets worse expect the left to push more and more for higher taxes on the top 5% and corporations, they know the mess they've created and they're fine with it because everything they do has the end goal of government power and confiscating money to pay for everyones "free" shit is a big part of it. The nonsense Michael Moore vomited out the other day about money being a national resource wasn't an exception, it's the rule, it's how libs think. All the problems of this world are caused because a) government and the all knowing politicians simply don't have enough authority to rule us properly and b) people are allowed to keep their money. Go on any lib blog and you'll see that shit repeated ad infinitum.

170

The "fall" wasn't a one time event, either -- it was a gradual weakening, a slow rot from within. It was a death of knowledge, of quality, of convenience, and comfort. It was a slow debasement of everything the citizens had built over the previous centuries. We are fools if we think it can't happen again.

 

annnnndddd, if the signs I'm reading are correct, we have a looong cold spell coming that will worsen any effects that do happen. Think crops failing, people migrating to bordering countries and the shit that hits the fan over that, dogs and cats living together.... you get the picture. We are overdue for an iceage. Dark ages happen people and few recognise when they start.

171 The fall of Rome ushered in two one thousand years of retrograde motion that was reversed only by the European renaissance.

You realize we were dealing with those tolerant, not at all violent Islamists for a thousand years after the wussies in Rome threw in the towel, right?

172 Posted by: Polliwog at March 09, 2011 10:03 PM (gjDps)

Don't despair!  Find a good financial adviser and pick his brain. Get to know him well and double-check everything he says. Then, when you are confident of him, take his advice, but continue to double-check everything!

173 It is a shame we aren't sitting on top off a massive amount of offshore oil, oil shale, and tar sands to extract and rack up nice windfall tax revenues to help solve the problem. If there is a war involving China, look south to the Spratleys, Phillipines, and Vietnam. China is at least 10 years away from being able to invade Tiawan - she can hurt her with missiles. I would also look for regional unrest in Russia's east to be exploited or tormented by the Chinese.

174 Kitten: the other white meat. Bring on the motherbanging chaos. Unfortunately I think default and a 200 million 2020 census would be the best chance of survial for the us. Prepare for the worst, hope for...ah fuck hope you can't eat it or shoot it.

175 Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 10:06 PM (FC+dS)

This is why I asked Kratos about entropy!

Would we have even considered the possibility of a riot at the Wisconsin State House in 1986?

Yet just 25 years later we see it as a distinct possibility; the erosion of democracy.

176 booger: "The nonsense Michael Moore vomited out the other day about money being a national resource wasn't an exception, it's the rule, it's how libs think."

Well, we can't go after his stash first. I mean, it's his!

177

We do not have to balance the budget in one year to avert catastrophe. We need cuts, and growth. Then we hold the line on spending, while continuing growth, and 5 years down the road we have a very serviceable debt level. It will take INCREDIBLE DISCIPLINE, but it can be done.

No.  No it can't.  It will have to be forced on Americans, and only after massive amounts of pain and upheaval.  Regardless of all the bitching going on, no one is REALLY feeling the pain, yet. But they will.

We never have to eliminate the current debt we already have accumulated. If we could keep it at its current level, and just grow the economy, debt service would not be a problem and eventually we could pay down the principle. The reason we are so screwed is that we just keep adding more and more and more to the debt principle, and Obama is now adding to it at a rate that is unprecedented.

 

Unpossible under our current system.  Why?  BECAUSE I'M SCORPION, BITCH!  YOU KNEW THAT SHIT! 

535 parasites who will never risk their power and perquisites by telling people to suck it up.  Look at Greece and how their citizens reacted to the suggestion of austerity measures.

Austerity - TRUE austerity can only be imposed by a strongman or a small cadre of brutal leaders.  But fuckit - 235 years is a pretty good run, right?

178 Who will change the hearts and minds of our youth after 16+ years of socialist brainwashing within the state-sponsored education system?

I've been thinking about this, and if ever there was an ideology ripe for overturning on the basis of its sheer grimness and un-fun-ness and lack of appeal to young people, socialism is it. "Sacrifice, Johnny! Share! Give Shakira half of what you earned -- she's Black and she suffers. Suzy! Take off that decadent necklace!"

179 163 I'm more of the opinion that we haven't gotten to that chapter yet -- we're just getting ready to lose the republic.

180

178 Posted by: Polliwog at March 09, 2011 10:03 PM (gjDps)

Don't despair!  Find a good financial adviser and pick his brain suck his cock. Get to know him well and double-check everything he says. Then, when you are confident of him, take his advice, but continue to double-check everything!

FIFY

181

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 09, 2011 10:10 PM (LH6ir)

How do I double check?  I've got both Zerohedge and Marketwatch on my blogroll, but 2/3rds of the time I have no idea what they're saying, other than everythings bad and getting worse.  I'm a fine arts major.  My smart move was marrying a math genius.  I'd much rather have him and his brain making the most of what we saved than lots of money and my sad monetary ability.

182

You realize we were dealing with those tolerant, not at all violent Islamists for a thousand years after the wussies in Rome threw in the towel, right?

You were.  For a while.

183 Sorry for the rant.  I'm honestly scared and it seems like all I get anywhere else is "don't worry, it'll all work out" and I don't believe it will.

Polliwog:

It's scary, but remember: we are still in control of our own lives. Don't ever let yourself get into a position where you feel helpless, because you are never helpless unless you choose to be. If you are providing for you and yours, and living your life the best you can, and doing your best to change what you have the ability to change, why...you're already doing your bit. If more people were like you, we wouldn't be in the shit we're in.

And for financial advice, I always say this: go to a financial adviser. Don't listen to the Internet People (including me) when it comes to investing your money wisely. Barring that, talk with a trusted friend or associate or someone at work. (Your HR folks ought to be able to give you some pointers.)

This situation can (and probably will) get bad...but life will still be worth living. There are still plenty of reasons to feel joy, and love, and happiness. Don't let my downer financial posts make you feel too frantic; maybe we'll come out of this mess a stronger and wiser nation. I certainly hope that will be the case. Just remember: our grandparents and great-grandparents lived through a Great Depression and the worst war in the history of this planet...and went on to build the world we have around us right now. Nothing is final -- it all depends on what we do with the choices we are given.

184

Posted by: The Great Satan's Ghost at March 09, 2011 10:16 PM (suOuc)

Wow, helpful advice that isn't.

185 arable farm land is a good investment. and family, lots of family

186 Posted by: Polliwog at March 09, 2011 10:16 PM (gjDps)

I consider myself savvy when it comes to finance, but my wife and I decided that we needed someone else to help us. We were lucky that we have a good friend who is in the business, but there are plenty of good, trustworthy people in finance who can help you. It's just a question of finding them.

As for checking? Just look at every investment and decide for yourself whether you are comfortable with it. Use Google, the library, friends, family -- whatever works. Whoever you choose will be working for you and will have to do what you say. If you are uncomfortable, then ask more questions. If you don't get a straight answer that makes sense then go to another financial adviser. But never, ever do anything that you don't understand and that doesn't make you feel confident.

187

 Barring that, talk with a trusted friend or associate or someone at work. (Your HR folks ought to be able to give you some pointers.)

Part of my concern is that I've been out of the workforce for almost 15 years.  The HR at John's work seemed to have nice people, I guess it's possible they might be willing to talk to me even though he's gone.  I hadn't considered that.  This is why I keep you guys around.

188 That "riot in Madison" crack I made? Maybe not so unlikely after all.

189 Posted by: Polliwog at March 09, 2011 10:19 PM (gjDps)

Don't forget where you are! ;-)

He'll be asking for nude pictures next.

190 Geez, I knew the gloating from the last thread wasn't going to last long, but geez, Monty, did you have to kill my buzz so early?  Sigh!

191

Wow, helpful advice that isn't.

 

hoping to bring a smile to your face.. guess it didn't work eh?  Sorry

192 The HR at John's work seemed to have nice people, I guess it's possible they might be willing to talk to me even though he's gone.

Couldn't hurt to give them a ring. Or call the insurance company that you're getting the settlement from and have them recommend someone. Or talk to a banker in your town, or someone at your credit union. There are lots of avenues available to you, and the more questions you ask, the better your decision-making will be.

193 183, I am more optimistic than you, but I know it will take the type of leadership that we have not seen before. It will take someone who is willing to be a one termer, but will be satisfied knowing they did the right thing. A rare breed for sure. If you read the Ryan roadmap in full, it is not draconian and if explained to people, 51% could support it. In a nutshell, if you are over 55, no changes to your social security so there is no need to freak out about starving people. Under 55, you would receive less when you retire but would have options for private retirement accounts. Tax reform in the roadmap gives people a choice of either the current system or a new simple system that can be filled out on index card. I would say most would choose the simple system for piece of mind alone. The IRS today is like a prostate exam. I truly believe that this stuff can be sold to the public if done so the right way with a big emphasis on making sure the media can't frame the narrative as killing old people which is an outrageous lie. It is very impressive and deals with SS, healthcare, taxes, and even job training.

194

Posted by: The Great Satan's Ghost at March 09, 2011 10:26 PM (suOuc)

Sorry, you had no way of knowing that my husband is the only guy I've ever kissed.  I guess my semse of humor on the subject is less than I'd realized.

195 And for financial advice, I always say this: go to a financial adviser. Don't listen to the Internet People (including me) when it comes to investing your money wisely. Barring that, talk with a trusted friend or associate or someone at work.
Posted by: Monty

Please note; if you are looking for a financial advice, look for a fee-only advisor. You do not want an advisor that will push you to buy financial instruments through him.

Here's one list of fee-only advisers.

196 geez, Monty, did you have to kill my buzz so early?

That's just how I roll. (And anyway the ructions in Madison provide some interesting counterpoint to this story, don't you think?)

197 @Polliwog,

Good luck. It might seem grim (thanks Monty!), but with a bit of work and some thought you will be able to manage. And...never forget that you are in charge.

Cheers!

198 We are in a classic debt spiral from which there is probably no escape. The mandatory spending numbers will never go down, and debt-service will eat ruthlessly away at the remaining portion of the federal budget

How the hell does this surprise anyone?  And by anyone, I don't mean anyone-anyone, I mean any moron.  How else could this have shaken out?  Didn't Obama's monthly deficit just exceed Bush's annual deficit?  We may still be able to win some battles, but the crapweasels have definitely won the war . . .

_{I denounce myself}

199

that would be "sense of humor"

my spelling could use some help too.

200 Hi, Polliwog?  How you doin', girl?

201 Here's some real advice - suck up to powerful people. People with money and government positions. Somebody is gonna be in charge of doling out the rations ... it's good for you if that somebody is your cousin or old college buddy.

Move back to where you have family. Make nice with your extended family and 3rd cousins on your mother's side. Apologize for all those times you were a dick cause you didn't need anybody else so you moved to the big city halfway across the country.

When the shit hits the fan, who do you know that will help you out? That will go wait in line to get you your weekly Obama-rations while are laid up with swine flu? Do you live near those people? Why not? Or do you expect your current anonymous neighbors to sacrifice for you when the going gets tough?

If you can't move then ... it's time to make nice with the neighbors. Time to go to church. Time to join groups of like-minded people. In real life. Ace of Spades don't count.

How many people within a short drive of you care about you and would want to help you in times of trouble? How many people could you call right now and say "I need help" and they would rush over? Work to increase that # -- otherwise you're going to be at the mercy of whatever anonymous bureaucrat administers the The American Recovery and Food Rationing Act of 20XX. And that bureaucrat will damn sure be siphoning off extra to help his friends and family.

202 It is very impressive and deals with SS, healthcare, taxes, and even job training.

It's the most realistic chance we have, but for two problems.

1. We don't have anyone who can sell it, including Ryan himself. We'd need someone like Lincoln to do this, and we damned sure ain't got no Lincoln sitting on the bench right now.

2. Even if we adopted it and implemented it in full, it might not be enough to stave off disaster. I don't think we have three decades to get our shit under control. We may not even have ten years. Or even five.

203 Fuck.

204 arable farm land is a good investment. and family, lots of family

I keep eyeballing land out in Colorado.

I figure that the most likely scenario is a collapse of the Federal Government, but not the state governments for the most part.  People would be scrabbling on their own for a while, until a new convention could be called.  In the meanwhile,  the midwest, and the west except for the coasts, should be fine.  Being away from the major cities is the key.

205 O/T:  Oh Dear God, you need to put on MSNBC this guy ed is talking to some guy from the nation who is likening all the union members to the minutemen, coming out to the town square to "save democracy".

Geez, this feels, the way they describe it, awfully like the passing of obamacare.  Hmm they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Big talk about recall of the republicans.

206 My fellow fiscal-optimist Allahpundit over at HA sheds further light on why we are boned.

207 You know what is really starting to fry my ass?  Hearing everybody keep referring to Social Security as a gubmint handout.  They confiscated that money from every paycheck I have made for the past 40 years and I WANT THAT MONEY BACK!  It really irks me to have people talking about it like it's in the same class as welfare and food stamps.

And, excuse me, but my take on food stamps is that they should not be awarded to anyone who isn't within 10% of a healthy body weight.  Yeah, I'm sayin' it.  No food stamps for fatties.  Especially illegal ones . . .

Yeah, I'm goin' straight to hell.

208

Posted by: Peaches at March 09, 2011 10:31 PM (zxpIo)

Hanging in there for the most part.  I'm really glad for you guys when I'm feeling the craziest.  I do have friends here, and a great church thank God, but there's a lot of wisdom to be gleaned from such a varied group as the Moron/ettes. 

209 Man you would not believe some of the shit rolling across the message boards re the Madison thing. Some of these shitheads sound like they are literally foaming at the mouth.  I'm hearing stuff about "armed resistance" and "sic semper tyrannus" and all the rest. It's got a very unstable vibe to it, not just the usual pissed-off venting.

Gov. Walker better have the National Guard on standby, because this shit could get ugly really fast.

210 Gov. Walker better have the National Guard on standby, because this shit could get ugly really fast.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 10:45 PM (FC+dS)

The new civility, live and in liberal color.

Somehow I'm having a spot of trouble comparing this stuff to the Tea Party rallies. It's probably just me.

211 Gov. Walker better have the National Guard on standby, because this shit could get ugly really fast.

Does anyone know the extent to which the WI National Guard is stateside?

212 Man you would not believe some of the shit rolling across the message boards re the Madison thing.

Also, I can't believe this was the week Beck took vacation. This is exactly what he's been warning about (I'm not saying exclusively, just that it's central to his thesis).

213 If you haven't started stocking up on food supplies and other things, you may want to get going on that, six months to a year would be a good idea.
Even if nothing happens, you haven't wasted your money.

214 monty, can I ask what message boards? I'm guessing DailyKos, et al?

215 You start citing AllahPendejo,  that is where I get off this train. 

216 So riddle me this:

What is the point of a bank run if your money is worth nothing?

217 If the politicians cannot get find the courage to cut spending and entitlements, they will try higher taxes. When that does not fix the problem (and it will not), we will not default. Rather the Fed will monetize the debt--they will buy it, paying for it with dollars that they create.  The result will be inflation, but with luck it will not be hyperinflation. This is the way banana republics function, and we are on the road to that status. If we get there, the majority of the public and virtually all of the press will wonder why it happened and will probably never figure out that run-away spending had anything to do with it.

It is an old story, played out many times in the past. It can happen here because our elites have failed us and not enough of us commoners understand that. What is depressing is that in many cases economic failure does not result in political failure. Leaders who lead their countries into poverty are sometimes very successful politically. Peron in Argentina is an example.

218

Solution:  Default on the debt, at a time of our own choosing.  Get back on gold standard.  Short-to-medium term suffering for long-term stability.

Bachmann was prescient a couple weeks ago when she said that the president after Obeyme is routed in 2012, must be willing to be a one-termer.  That's what it'll take to restore the Republic.  Get out the vote in 2012.

219

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion.  The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. -Ludwig von Mises

 

220 We lost this battle when the debate stopped being about whether the government should provide a gigantic welfare state, and began to be about how we would fund it. Truer words were never posted.

221 Actually, we CAN fix this problem.

Deport all illegals. And their kids. And kids of former illegals, and so on. Ugly but effective. Call it Survivor Economics. The split goes farther the less it is cut.

Simply deport a whole lot of really poor people. Enjoy huge cost savings, no more massive health, education, and welfare expenditures.

The Welfare state is huge, compared to the 1950's, because of a huge influx of massively poor (and their descendants stay that way sadly too) people. Nearly all of them Mexican.

222

"We are in a classic debt spiral..."   What do you mean "we", Kimosabe?

Federal spending is not the problem, State spending will be a far more immediate, critical, and divisive issue far before we confront SS or Medicaid/Medicare funding.  The imminent bankruptcies of California or Wisconsin or Illinois will present the Obama administration with only one ready solution--one not only consanant with their predilection toward a "too-big-to-fail" mentality, but also one that allows an easy, blame the rich, rational.  Obama will appropriate--or extort--funds from successful, less profligate, states in order to prop up the public Union pensions and welfare spending of California, Wisconsin or Illinois.  Prepare to hear the phrase "fatcat States" or "States that refuse to share the sacrifice" from the MSM. 

The failure of the welfare state will be blamed and mitigated.  And states whose economies actually work will be forced to pay for their profigate, socialist neighbors.  Obama will attempt to steal the success of his opponents in order to paper over the abject failure of his, and the Left's, ideology--the success of red states borrowed to fund the failure of blue ones, and, no doubt, to be disparaged even as they pay for their bills, their bribery, their economic folly.

If that happens it is truly, finally, the line in the sand for the States. 

If it cannot be shown why some states are successful and others are not, and why the modern welfare state fails because the latter keeps borrowing from the former--we can never win.

223

Solution:  Default on the debt, at a time of our own choosing.  Get back on gold standard.  Short-to-medium term suffering for long-term stability.

Bachmann was prescient a couple weeks ago when she said that the president after Obeyme is routed in 2012, must be willing to be a one-termer.  That's what it'll take to restore the Republic.  Get out the vote in 2012.

Posted by: J.S. Bryun at March 09, 2011 11:45 PM (gI8HA)

Unless you happen to have significant gold holdings, going back onto the gold standard isn't going to help.

224

Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 09, 2011 10:31 PM (QcFbt)

Who knew you were a predicter.  Pain is definitely on the menu, with some extra pain sauce on the side.

225 Remember this, if you remember nothing else: it will never be any easier or cheaper to fix this problem than it is right now. The longer we wait, the more catastrophic the outcome will be. If we will not impose discipline on ourselves, the market will do it for us.

This is what Ross Perot tried to tell us almost twenty years ago.  It would have been so much easier then.  I'm pretty sure we're past the windmill which marks the point of no return.

So what happens when we simply run out of track?

226

What can't go on forever won't.

There are three possibilities:

 

1.  Some unexpected miracle technology that causes an economic boom.

2.  Draconian cuts.

3.  Formal debt default.

4.  Hyperinflation.

 

#1 is a fairy tale.

#2 would solve the problem, but it won't happen.

#3 would solve the problem, but it won't happen any time soon, because then no one would lend to us and that leads to #2

#4 will happen.  Until no one lends to us, at which point we'll get #3 and #2.

 

Hyperinflation=>formal default and draconian cuts.  Now you know the future.  Just remember to pretend to be surprised.

227 One of my lib friends informed me the economy is getting better. Sigh.

228

Where's the California is Boned update?

We demand a California is Boned update because it's our god-given right.

Now cough it up or we'll riot.

Racists.

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