1

Bigger factor in Barney Frank's decision?

1. Redistricting.

2. End of the congressional page progarm.

2 Epic sock-clearing post.

3

This whole thing is really just a hoary old Democrat chestnut: class envy.

Money quote.

4

We might be Doomed, but I'm not going down without a fight.

5 Good Morning Monty!

A friend saw an analyst on CNBC this morning and tweeted "looks like the stores are finally sobering up from black friday"  I'm guessing that the analyst wasn't all "rah rah retail!"

6

"You can now “make a living” with comparatively little effort and time investment compared with most of human history. But it’s socially very expensive to have a lot of unproductive people around, especially in a vast welfare state like ours"

Since America is so enamored with reality tv, let's make life reality. Work, or don't eat.

When do we get to start voting them off the island?

7 The most terrifying chart-fu yet.

holy shit - so total debt is about $50 trillion? And that's not even including unfunded liabilities?

We are so beyond boned

8 Yes, Obama is going to print up another trillion dollars for Europe. Soon a loaf of bread will cost $50 but I have a feeling we will collapse long before then.

9

8 Soon a loaf of bread will cost $50 but I have a feeling we will collapse long before then.

I'm rich! Rich I tells ya! What with the 200 lbs of hard red winter wheat berries I have stored.

10 Welcome back, Monty.

All you praying types offer up a few more for me.

Interview on the 23rd went well. Word from the recruiter yesterday is that manager is ready to hire me but the position he has in mind for me doesn't officially open on the books until January. He's meeting with regional manager today to try and move things early for me.

I'm praying hard. I have one of "those feelings" this could be a good move for me.

11 Go Scott J! Will pray you get the job.

12 Iran Update: Six UK Embassy Staff Taken Hostage: Iran Contra Redux?

13 Good Morning Monty! A friend saw an analyst on CNBC this morning and tweeted "looks like the stores are finally sobering up from black friday" I'm guessing that the analyst wasn't all "rah rah retail!" Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 08:55 AM (oZfic) OMG!!!!

14 As I read through the Bloomberg piece on the banks & the Federal Reserve, I kept asking myself .. “where is the news ?” It was written in a manner that made you think the authors were hyperventilating the entire time that they wrote it, but it kept coming up short.
We had these huge sums of money like $1.2 trillion and then the “killer” .. they made $13 billion in profit over two years. My quick math has that as 1.08% profit over two years. These bankers should be deeply ashamed .. what a pathetic return.
If you consider that the Federal Reserve isn’t really owned by the government, and that taxpayers didn’t pay a dime (as opposed to GM, Chrysler, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Solyndra, etc. etc.), I am at a loss to explain “where the ‘there’ is ?”

15 Scott J good luck and blessings - hope it works out for you. But we are doomed. Rush was talking yesterday about that thing with the Dems abandoning working whites. I have been saying this for a while - politics is about constituencies. Obama is about fundamentally transforming America by changing what constituencies are being served. He and the Democrats are craftily coalescing all of the eaters and takers and looters against the producers and owners and rule followers. It can't last.

16 Go Scott J! Will pray you get the job.

Thanks. I feel a bit guilty as I should be glad I have a job and a good paying one at that.

I actually may take a bit of a haircut to move but I really am that miserable.

17 mommy, mommy, DOOM is on!

18 15, of course we're doomed.

The net consumer vs. net producer passed the 50% mark a few years back. Now we just are watching to see how we play out Bastiat's prediction.

We're getting a preview of our future over in Europe.

19 scott j. best wishes....i hope it works out....

20

Bigger factor in Barney Frank's decision?

1. Redistricting.

2. End of the congressional page progarm.

3. At some point you have earned pilfered enough money.

21

Warwick, RI: 92.5% of all new revenue in the last decade went to benefits for public-sector employees. Sooner or later the taxpayers are going to get fed up with this abuse.

Not the taxpayers of Warwick, RI. My millionaire, die-hard socialist relatives live in a lily-white country club neighborhood there. Their solution to problems such as this are to tax "the rich" (defined by them as people who earn more than they do).

Oh, and if you dare point out that there isn't enough money in the world to continue these unsustainable debt pits, they'll calmly explain how such views are racist. Seriously, I've been there, but they all went to Dartmouth, so clearly they're correct and I'm a moron.

22 Good luck Scott !

23 20 scfoamf i think you hit the nail on the head with #2

24 Black Friday Shopping Like There Is No Tomorrow?

This article is making its way around email.

25 In sort of off topic discussion I think I am officially an IDPA junkie.

Dragging today because I went to shoot an evening match last night at an indoor range. 2nd Monday in a row. Got home around 10:00 then stayed up past 11:00 unwinding. Back up at 5:30. Ugh.

26 And on that superflu thing: Come on down and meet your maker Come on down and make the stand Come on down, come on down Come on down, we'll make the stand

27 24 scott how did you do?

28 Teh Krugman: all your income are belong to us. Oh no, raising Medicare age means elderly pay more for health insurance! Who has the most money to pay for insurance again? I believe it is the elderly. The era of the nanny-coddle state is coming to an end. The question is will our government overlords make the painful choices to end it voluntarily in a controlled fashion, or will they persist in this madness until the revolution and the economists, tax men, and elected officials are blindfolded and standing before a wall?

29 Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 08:55 AM (oZfic)

A friend saw curious in the men's room at Grand Central taking it up the poop chute. There were a bunch of people lined up -- I guess business is good.

30 ok just so you youngsters know, plenty of seniors are both working and drawing social security...so maybe it should be one or the other for $$ savings eh?  not that monty said otherwise.

31 You don't really get $200 just because you pass "Go"? Totally not fair. The Recovering Republic nears.

32 A friend saw curious in the men's room at Grand Central taking it up the poop chute. There were a bunch of people lined up -- I guess business is good.

Posted by: Typical troublemaking moron at November 29, 2011 09:14 AM (nEUpB)

Don't you think that is an odd response to my post?  What did my post have to do with people lining up for the men's room in Grand Central Station?

33 27, 8th out of 14 shooters. An improvement of 2 places over last week.

But I still have a long way to go. The top shooter (who is crazy good) halved my time.

34 WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. home prices are falling again in most major cities after posting small gains over in the summer and spring, the latest evidence that the troubled housing market won't recover any time soon.



But but but.....what about Barry's glorious economic recovery due to his glorious 5 year plan?

35

Come on down and meet your maker
Come on down and make the stand
Come on down, come on down
Come on down, we'll make the stand

 

The Alarm...Nice !!!

36 Crap, I live in Warwick.

37 Ugh. No way can I get through EIGHT PAGES of idiocy about OWS. Does it not ring any irony alarm bells with those people that they keep talking about a "movement" being led and cultivated by professional activists ? That's not a movement, its just a re-branding of the last professional activist protest movement - the anti-war movement from 2004-2008. Lost on them is the obvious need for re-branding that completely undercuts their credibility - you can't be anti-war any longer because Democrats are running the war. God, what a putrid bunch of navel-gazing.

38 33 scott j nice

39 Posted by: Typical troublemaking moron at November 29, 2011 09:14 AM (nEUpB)

Watch it. That kind of thing edges right up to a line that will get you banninated.

40 24 In sort of off topic discussion I think I am officially an IDPA junkie.

ah, that's good practice for when the SHTF.  IPSC also..

41 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

42 32 A friend saw curious in the men's room at Grand Central taking it up the poop chute. There were a bunch of people lined up -- I guess business is good.

Posted by: Typical troublemaking moron at November 29, 2011 09:14 AM (nEUpB)

Don't you think that is an odd response to my post?  What did my post have to do with people lining up for the men's room in Grand Central Station?

Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 09:15 AM (oZfic)

How is that a response to your post? I thought you weren't curious? Not that there's anything wrong with calling curious a cum dumpster.

43 A movement based on not one, but several of the deadly sins -- jealousy, sloth, and wrath, to be specific  -- lacks a firm foundation for success.

44 Crap, I live in Warwick.


GET TO THE CHOPPAH!

45 "CRAMER: 'We Are In DEFCON 3, Two Stages Away From A Financial Collapse So Huge It's Hard To Get Your Mind Around'"

46 45 Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 09:20 AM (oZfic) OMG!!!!

47 46 mallamutt if kramer wasn't on... curious wouldn't have a link to post

48 Posted by: mugiwara at November 29, 2011 09:20 AM (D5hxK)

I'm having a difficult time understanding a lot of the post responses to what I write.  Often the responses make no sense.  If they were funny that would be great but they aren't even funny.

49 32 A friend saw curious in the men's room at Grand Central taking it up the poop chute. There were a bunch of people lined up -- I guess business is good.

Posted by: Typical troublemaking moron at November 29, 2011 09:14 AM (nEUpB)

Don't you think that is an odd response to my post?  What did my post have to do with people lining up for the men's room in Grand Central Station?

Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 09:15 AM (oZfic)

Easy. Potential porn links=curious=grand central butt sex. It's just one step. Try to keep up.

50

Easy. Potential porn links=curious=grand central butt sex. It's just one step. Try to keep up.

Posted by: dagny at November 29, 2011 09:22 AM (382HC)

Very confusing. 

51 What's a Kramer? I thought that was a Seinfeld character?

52

I'm having a difficult time understanding a lot

And you could have put the period right there at the end, after the word "lot" and for once have been 100% accurate and we all would have agreed.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 29, 2011 09:24 AM (OWjjx)

Do you think you could stick to the topics at hand instead of answering what I post with gibberish?

53 curious is trying to deny her past postings and attacks....playing naive....pathetic.....

54

My retirement plan was always working until I die.  I figured it out about in my mid-forties that I probably couldn't count on Social Security, as I'm near the end of the baby boomers (1953). 

Also,  I raised 3 girls virtually by myself, as His Royal Highness The Prince Supreme Frederick didn't like to stain his lily white hands and do anything so mundane and pedestrian as "work."  And to put the icing on the cake, since we were married 11 years, he'll get a portion of my pension when and if I retire.  So working on gives me the added incentive of pissing him off.  Win-win situation for me. 

55 Cramer is a reverse barometer for me. If he's sounding the alarm on DOOM, then maybe it's time to think that the economy is taking a turn for the better. He's a loudmouth, the Joe Buck of financial news. Monkeys throwing darts at a board would get better investing results than he does, but somehow people keep listening to him. I think CNBC keeps trotting him out there just to keep the haters' blood boiling.

If you want some really good, informed -- albeit bearish -- commentary on the economy, you need to go to people like Bob Janjuah or even Rick Santelli who at least know what the hell they're talking about.

56 curious is trying to deny her past postings and attacks....playing naive....pathetic....

You know, discussing a troll in a thread where the troll hasn't even posted yet is an indication that the troll has won a great victory over you. Don't you people get that? Just let it go.

57 40, indeed.

Most folks practice rifle for SHTF but the rifle is an offensive weapon.

The handgun is a defensive arm. I figure we'll go through a long period of semi-collapse where defense will be the rule of the day.

The open carry of long arms will come later.

58 When bread hits $50, I'm going to insist bakeries offer a discounted weevil/no weevil option for those of us who would like additional protein in our baked goods.  Win-win, baby!

59 monty curious threatened me directly in a past post.....i won't let it go curious is blue bonnet

60 Why is Kramer still on t.v.? Does he have pictures of someone getting to know a goat in the biblical sense?

LOL. Mark Haines weeps.

61 You know, discussing a troll in a thread where the troll hasn't even posted yet is an indication that the troll has won a great victory over you.

The troll did post.  At (checks posts) #5.  Most people don't recognize the hash anymore, so some of our more pro-active morons feel the need to point out whenever it posts on a thread.

Add that to the fact the Horde (collectively) will hold a grudge for longer than the universe will be in existence, and you get this kind of thing.

62 When bread hits $50

I'll see if I can manage to grow wheat in the Southeast.

And there's always cornbread that my Southern ancestors survived on when flour was hard to come by.

63 Oh boy, that affair scandal is really hurting him on InTrade.

64 curious threatened me directly in a past post.....i won't let it go

Let me put it more directly: take your fight someplace else. It cruds up the thread.

65 Why ya'll engage trolls is beyond me

66 And there's always cornbread that my Southern ancestors survived on when flour was hard to come by.

Red beans and cornbread will keep you alive and (relatively) healthy for a long, long time.  Even if they taste like cardboard.

Seriously, people add bacon to red beans to make them taste better- and it doesn't work.  It leaches the flavor from the bacon without actually making the beans palatable.

67 62 monty

curious threatened me directly in a past post.....i won't let it go

curious is blue bonnet

Posted by: phoenixgirl, still for perry at November 29, 2011 09:28 AM (SH3gZ)

What are you talking about?  Do you ever have anything intelligent to say about the topic at hand or is your job to just fill up the bandwidth?

68 Also off-topic: my friend Mike Vanderboegh stands in front of the statist cockroach and says "eat me" a la Zed in MIB: http://tinyurl.com/6lsrrcn

69 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 29, 2011 09:32 AM (OWjjx)

You appear to have me confused with someone else. 

70 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 29, 2011 09:32 AM (8y9MW)
Fatback baby, fatback!
Works with almost any bean.

71 Monty, since you are engaged in this thread, possibly unwillingly.
What is to be done if Romney is elected as our representative?
Do you feel comfortable with the idea. Will He be fiscally strong enough to Help drag us from the abyss?

72 "Not oil. Not gold or diamonds. Only human freedom ensures prosperity." Case in point, a former Soviet state, now Estonia ranks economically above the USA.  Too Big Not to Fail: Imperial Governments from Moscow to Washington  --  Yuri N. Maltsev

73 74, which reminds me. I need to get into feral hog hunting. I understand the population down here is getting out of control.

74 32 A friend saw curious in the men's room at Grand Central taking it up the poop chute. There were a bunch of people lined up -- I guess business is good.

Posted by: Typical troublemaking moron at November 29, 2011 09:14 AM (nEUpB)

Don't you think that is an odd response to my post?  What did my post have to do with people lining up for the men's room in Grand Central Station?

Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 09:15 AM (oZfic)

  73 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 29, 2011 09:32 AM (OWjjx)

You appear to have me confused with someone else. 

Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 09:34 AM (oZfic)

It appears you share the same confusion.

75 Now, this is fascinating.

76 Fatback baby, fatback!
Works with almost any bean.

I've actually found that cooking them in 1 part Dr. Pepper to 1 part water does wonders for the flavor.  Almost makes them worth eating.

Of course, my parents generation grew up eating them, so they still think they're awesome.  But for those of us born later, we like food with actual flavor.

77 fiscally -morally strong enough.

78

It turns out that taking a 20 or 30-year vacation after you turn 65 isnÂ’t economically sustainable. Who knew?

 

It's sustainable if you own enough income streams.  That's what I would encourage everyone to do to the extent they can.  An uncle of mine did it through accumulating rental properties, and even got enough to put them under 3rd party management.  Grandad supplements his income through farm land rent.  I'm working on buying dividends, and distributions from a collection of MLPs.  I'm investing every dime I can, with the goal of being "able" to retire by 50.  Doesn't mean I'll necessarily stop working entirely, but I can think of lots of low stress, low responsibility jobs I'd rather be doing, and an income sufficient to pay all my bills would make that possible.

The best way, in my view, to address the retirement problem and, to some extent, the employment problem long-term is to replace the working mentality with the ownership mentality.  We need to clear as many people out of the work force as possible to make room.  If we can do that by having the old workers own the means of production, reaping an income from something they own rather than from government redistribution, we'll all be way better off. 

79 State of Texas $44,250

States contribute to political campaigns?  Imagine what New Jersey will do when Governor Christie steps up to the plate then.

80 The advantage of the Judeo-Christian philosophy over its pagan predecessors is that no one is expendable. Not everyone is born with equal gifts, but everyone is born with unalienable rights, and among these rights are -- well, you get the idea.

81 Good luck Scott

82 It's sustainable if you own enough income streams.

I think the big lie about retirement was that "everyone" would be able to retire at some point.  That has not been the case throughout most of human history, and it wasn't going to change just because Washington DC said so.

Most people are going to have to work until they are unable to work anymore.  We're lucky (for lack of a better term) in the US, because a higher percentage of us will be able to retire, but I'm betting it's barely more (if at all) than 50% who can truly retire sustainably.

The thing to do is to accumulate wealth for your posterity.  Then you can draw it down (if necessary) when you're unable to work, but your kids have an incentive (beyond simple love of you, which, unfortunately, seems to be worth less and less every year (sometimes I hate my generation)) to help you out when you can no longer work.

83 I find constant link-whoring trolls more tiresome than phoenixgirl taking the time to kindly point them out to all of us, frankly.

84 I heard curious earned her living at the glory hole off exit 75 on 95 north....are you telling me she has two jobs?

85 Welcome back. Re: the wealth gap. I think the problem is our ever changing definition of poverty. It should be defined as an absolute term not a relative term. Because I make less than the senior partners at my firm doesn't make me poor. And America's "poorest "are wealthy by the rest of the worlds standards ,are fat etc, means they have less ,but does not mean they are poor.

86

>>>>It's sustainable if you own enough income streams.

 

But then it's not really "retirement" is it.   I think of retirement as doing nothing and collecting a pension.

If you own rental properties and other incomes generating streams, then you're still working to an extent. Sure it's not the labor intensive or high stress jobs that most people consider work, but it's still a form of work.

When you're producing income, you're still being productive

 

87 yikes, we are involved in a revolt.

88 Posted by: Scott J at November 29, 2011 09:36 AM (KC2BE)

And if you get a relatively young sow you will discover that commercial pork is a pale reflection of the real thing.

89 It should be defined as an absolute term not a relative term

Of course it should.  But, if we did that, then we'd have to admit that virtually no one in the US is poor by any reasonable standard, and we'd have all the reason we need to scale back the gargantuan beast that is Government.

90 And this list is huge.

91 Most folks practice rifle for SHTF but the rifle is an offensive weapon.

The handgun is a defensive arm. I figure we'll go through a long period of semi-collapse where defense will be the rule of the day.

The open carry of long arms will come later.

Posted by: Scott J at November 29, 2011 09:27 AM (KC2BE)

True, unless you live on the border. I certainly want as much distance as I can get between me and the human preds that don't even lurk any more.

The hand gun is emergency backup only. Then there is the boot knife for Alamo style endings.

92 The single biggest indicator you're dealing with an economic idiot is when the phrase 'income inequality' is invoked. There is so much this betrays about the speaker.

No understanding of wealth creation: The world's wealth is not a fixed quantity. Bill Gates family didn't have the source code for Microsoft Office hidden away in a secret vault for decades, just waiting for when there would be machines out that would make it immensely valuable. No, the office apps and any other piece of software that ever made a person or company (which is just a lot of persons) a lot of money was created from out of thin air by the power of applied thought.

There was a time that finding oil bubbling out of the ground on your land could be a grave misfortune. No crops could be raised where this awful stuff existed! Even knowing that it would burn was of limited value until someone worked out how to separate the desirable portions from the other gunk, and then eventually figured out the other gunk had its uses, too.

The difference? Applied intelligence. The source of all real wealth.  Even the most natural of resource, a rock lying on the ground, can be a source of wealth because a human mind looks at and sees it is well suited to throwing at rabbits and obtaining a meal. Which makes that human far wealthier than those with no eye for spotting a good throwing rock.


Basic jealousy: Why does it matter to you what other have if they didn't wrest directly from your possession? Unless someone's wealth is obtained through keeping you in poverty, why should you have any problem with that person or their wealth? Pure irrational jealousy is the only explanation.

93

Real life presented some small-scale DOOM that kept me from fulfilling my Ace of Spades duties. I denounce myself.

I hope all is better in Montyworld, I need my once and future minions highly functional. 

The working longer thing is all well and good but it's going to screw over Gen X even more.  Yes, fine, fine, I'm starting the generational warfare stuff but if the older workers who are in higher end positions don't retire then those positions won't open up for the next wave to move into them.  Big Law is facing (an utterly hilarious if it doesn't impact you) situation in which partners who are facing mandatory retirement under the partnership agreements now are suing that it's age discrimination thus pissing off the junior partners who put up with the pack mule workloads based on the promise that eventually they will be the equity holders.  So now you have countersuits to enforce the currently existing agreements and it's popcorn for all!

Of course, if the economy grows then that will take care of many of the problems as will, hmmm, how to put this, natural selection for at least a certain percentage.  But still.  This is not exactly going to improve generational tensions.

 

94

I think the problem is our ever changing definition of poverty.

"We" have never defined poverty. The Left has as an incentive to grab more money under the guise of "helping th poor". There are no poor in America. There are no hungry. There are none without access to shelter or health care. None.

95 Big Law is facing (an utterly hilarious if it doesn't impact you) situation

AmishDude.  Paging AmishDude.  AmishDude, please go to the white courtesy phone.

96

I think the big lie about retirement was that "everyone" would be able to retire at some point. That has not been the case throughout most of human history, and it wasn't going to change just because Washington DC said so.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at November 29, 2011 09:41 AM (8y9MW)

 

I agree that wishing in Washington doesn't change reality.  But what is different now from past history is that the produce of an individual is now so vast.  Machines have made the job of making stuff and growing stuff pretty easy compared to the past.  Only a fraction of the labor is needed now to make the same goods as in past years, and automation is making greater strides every day.  The surplus of goods and services is considerable.  We don't have enough work for everyone to do. 

In terms of averting massive social unrest, I think one of our greatest challenges is to figure out the best, most equitable way to get more people out of the work force without starving them out of existence.

It would be especially helpful if we could quit encouraging the underclass to get bigger. 

97 Lifey-life being a bit of a pain in the gulliver, eh?

98 That total debt chart for the US at 350%; yikes. ZH had a larger chart up with around 20 countries listed. Both the UK and Japan have total debts of close to 500%.
 
Data for the 'we aren't quite as boned as _________ yet'.

99

I put a link in the side bar. Jim Cramer is an ass, but it looks like he's finally openly admitting what is going on.

100

Posted by: alexthechick at November 29, 2011 09:45 AM (VtjlW)

wait... so lawyers are suing each other, complaining that the agreements that they willingly signed constitute illegal discrimination???

101 Hello K9s

102 106, dude. Don't try to apply logic. That got me a D in business law way back when.

I changed major from International Business to MIS after I recovered from the academic suspension that D helped me get.

103

If you own rental properties and other incomes generating streams, then you're still working to an extent. Sure it's not the labor intensive or high stress jobs that most people consider work, but it's still a form of work.

When you're producing income, you're still being productive.

Posted by: Ben at November 29, 2011 09:42 AM (wuv1c)

 

I see your point, but I can't entirely agree with the semantics.  Owning the productive asset is not the same as working, in my view.  I contend that managing a portfolio, or owning assets managed by others, is not the same as making stuff or providing a service. 

I guess the difference is one of definition.  The day I don't have to go into the office or log onto a network or belly up to a machine is the day that I consider myself retired.  I don't have to do the actual work of producing any more at that point.  Someone else does that work, and I take a part of what they produce in the form of cash.

104 Bloomberg would like to open a can of worms.

Link from Business Insider.

105 So, this Dutch Superflu virus, is this a Stephen King's The Stand type deal, or more of a Black Plague 'thin the herd' thing?

106

Morning, all!

Not necessarily DOOM related, but what do y'all think about those lovely Iranian student protesters that just stormed the British Embassy in Tehran?  OWS Iranian style? 

(link to the UK Telegraph, h/t WZ)

107

Monty,

I appreciate the heads up. I clicked on its link before I realized and it could really have been somewhere I didn't want to go. The last event is still seared in my mind. Ugh.

108 Hi soothie, what's up on this DOOM-filled morning

109
Real life presented some small-scale DOOM that kept me from fulfilling my Ace of Spades duties.







Longbow break a string?

ScottJ, best of luck in the job hunt. Which brings up the important questions. What caliber for job? When hunting job, do they see blaze orange? Are job good eating?

110 One of the teevee news magazine programs last night had some turds on there whining and complaining about how they have to use food stamps now and can't afford all the fun things they used to do.
In the background: A PS3 controller, a 40+ inch flat screen, and relatively new furniture. All in a house where you can tell each kid has their own room. Also, I seriously doubt any of the kids were wearing clothes bought from Goodwill or--horrors--hand-me-downs.

He can get a job, he's physically fit, but you can just tell he doesn't want to get his hand dirty with manual labor. He's got a degree, dammit!

She could take on daycare.

There's all sorts of things they could do. Instead, they sit back, whine and complain and blame everyone else. And ply their tale for the state-run propaganda show.

What the hell is wrong with these people who whine about not being able to find a job? You want hard? IN the Great Depression, whole families loaded up everything they owned and drove halfway across the country because they heard there might be jobs in the west. They slept under their Model T in the Nevada desert in the summer hoping to get a job building the Hoover Dam. And on and on.

Anyway, yesterday Instapundit had a Popular Mechanics article about a kid who is a self-made custom fabricator. That kid will never, ever be in want of work. And he'll will probably make more than all of his college educated classmates.

111 111 So, this Dutch Superflu virus, is this a Stephen King's The Stand type deal, or more of a Black Plague 'thin the herd' thing?

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 29, 2011 09:53 AM (AQD6a)

Possibly both?  You gotta admit, Captain Tripps sure thinned the herd.

112 We're at a point in our republic's history where the sanctity of the contract is being destroyed. Promises and agreements can now be wholly discarded. The result is the undermining of our nation's foundation.

113 ScottJ, best of luck in the job hunt. Which brings up the important questions. What caliber for job? When hunting job, do they see blaze orange? Are job good eating?

Gaah! Do NOT scramble two topics up in my brain like that this early in the AM.

I haven't had enough coffee for that.

114

wait... so lawyers are suing each other, complaining that the agreements that they willingly signed constitute illegal discrimination???

Yup!  Would you like some cheddar popcorn or I have some caramel too if you prefer. 

The last thing I am doing is trusting my retirement to my kids. Particularly my older daughter. It will be that scene out of Monty Python:

Mallamutt: But I'm not dead.

Daughter: Yes you are, and besides, I'm getting $50 from this medical school for your carcass, so be quiet!

I am now the healthcare poa for seven different people because I'm the one they know will pull the plug when needed.  I am a bit torn over what this says about me as a person. 

115 Other than that...

116
Posted by: epobirs at November 29, 2011 09:45 AM (kcfmt)




I'm stealing that comment. Good, concise definition of wealth generation.

117

I am now the healthcare poa for seven different people because I'm the one they know will pull the plug when needed.  I am a bit torn over what this says about me as a person. 

Posted by: alexthechick at November 29, 2011 10:00 AM (VtjlW)

Look on the bright side.  They trust that you won't pull the plug BEFORE it's needed.  Glass half full.

118 Iranian " Students" ( yeah students?) storm British Embassy and chant death to America. Why hasn't Iran been bombed back into the stone age?

119 What is to be done if Romney is elected as our representative?

I am, to put it in the mildest possible terms, not a Romney fan. However, if he is the GOP's candidate, I will simply write in someone I favor. My days of voting for creatures like McCain or Romney just because they are "electable" are over, forever.

I have a feeling that the real action is downticket anyway in the Senate and House races.

120 AllenG, I never could figure why Texans "prefer" kidney beans for chili (with or without meat). My mom raised us on pinto beans that next day make wonderfully soft chili-beans allowing the meat flavor to dominate, anasazi as well. Then again, I think I prefer tasting black-eyed/field peas on a near-daily basis with the side greens. If considering survival, it's interesting finding which wildflower weeds are the most nutritious, and figuring where to find recipes and means to downplay their overwhelming flavor (neighborhood rain runoff adds the pesticide/herbicide/dogshit).

121

Why hasn't Iran been bombed back into the stone age?

They already are in the Stone age so you gotta go a little further back

122 My days of voting for creatures like McCain or Romney just because they are "electable" are over, forever. I have a feeling that the real action is downticket anyway in the Senate and House races. Posted by: Monty at November 29, 2011 10:05 AM (/0a60) Sorry but that's a cop out and helps put obama back in office.

123 AllenG, I never could figure why Texans "prefer" kidney beans for chili (with or without meat)

Real Texan's don't.  Real Texans don't put any beans in our chili.

124 For alexthechick

125
Posted by: Scott J at November 29, 2011 09:59 AM (KC2BE)



*snicker*

I'm only on my first cup of coffee, otherwise I wouldn't have seen the mashup.

126 111 So, this Dutch Superflu virus, is this a Stephen King's The Stand type deal, or more of a Black Plague 'thin the herd' thing?

The latter.  The reason why SK's "Captain Tripps" was so deadly was because that flu virus mutated so rapidly during the course of infection which led to virtually everyone infected eventually succumbing to the flu.  As you know, the IRL influenza virus mutates a great deal due to "antigenic drift" - the virus has a RNA-based genome without a proofreading mechanism, thus there is a high error rate during viral genome replication. 

This man-altered version of the flu is more infectious, thus it can spread faster, but I dunno if the mutations also increased it's virulence (ie the flu virus can spread faster, but is the death rate significantly higher than that of un-mutated influenza).   

127 Sorry but that's a cop out and helps put obama back in office.

*Shrug*

Then don't trot Romney out there as the candidate. If he's the best the GOP can do, we're boned anyway -- might as well take our poison pure and elect Obama again. I'm not amenable to peer pressure in the best of times, and particularly now, I will not lend my name to yet another pseudo-"conservative" administration that does nothing to inhibit the relentless growth of the State. They will lay me cold in my grave before I will cast a vote for Mittens. If the GOP wants my vote, they'd better choose a different candidate.

I don't buy into the moral blackmail thing about how "if you don't do X, then Y will happen!" crap anyhow. It's one of the classic fallacies.

128

The hand gun is emergency backup only. Then there is the boot knife for Alamo style endings.

Posted by: Pecos, All Perry, all the time at November 29, 2011 09:44 AM (2Gb0y)

Along with one of these.

129

Grrr.  Sock failure.

130 Why hasn't Iran been bombed back into the stone age? Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 10:04 AM

Better to ask why those  "students" weren't chanting "death to Britain" having selected the British Embassy to crash--as if the British isn't the equivalent to US foreign policy given NATO and the British instigation of the Muslim Brotherhood to facilitate the downfall of the Ottoman Empire, not to mention mutually shared current globalist "investment" goals.

131 I'm definitely feeling curmudgeonly now that the appeals for donations for the hungry children have started for the holiday season. Between WIC and food stamps and food pantries and hunger centers and school meals, there really shouldn't be any hungry kids, and I'm already contributing towards their needs. Which is a danger of forced charity, the lack of initiative to contribute to real charities.

132

Posted by: chemjeff at November 29, 2011 10:08 AM (s7mIC)

See, see how chemjeff gives me nice things and not clowns/spiders/clownspiders?  Chemjeff, you may sleep inside once I establish Alextopia. 

 

133 Mallamutt How's your U-verse doing? I found Idiocracy last weekend finally. Had to check every 2 weeks for about 4 months since thats the search limit I think.

134 Anybody who threatens to sit out the 2012 Presidential Vote, vote for obama, a third party, or a write in vote is part of the problem, not the solution.

135 Pirates, according to BBC radio this morning, they were chanting death to Britain. Was at the doctor's office so I was a captive audience.

136

See, see how chemjeff gives me nice things and not clowns/spiders/clownspiders?  Chemjeff, you may sleep inside once I establish Alextopia. 

 

Posted by: alexthechick at November 29, 2011 10:15 AM (VtjlW)

You suffer from arachnocoulrophobia?  Have you tried desensitization therapy? 

137 If he's the best the GOP can do, we're boned anyway -- might as well take our poison pure and elect Obama again.

Well, Monty, you really have taken this whole DOOM philosophy to heart, haven't you

138 140 You said that so nicely. When I say that it has lots 'o bad words. Stupid fuckers.

139 Anybody who threatens to sit out the 2012 Presidential Vote, vote for obama, a third party, or a write in vote is part of the problem, not the solution.

Fuck that attitude.
I'm with Monty.
Tried the "great compromise" theory for 40 years.
If/when I get boned, it will be for a reason I understand this time.

140 After a nice long relaxing vacation away from everything, I'm having a hard time getting back to the stuff I did before I went.  I think it's because I solidified my belief that we are truly DOOMed.  Neither the politicians from the right or the left will address what has got us to this point.  They will continue to 'cut' by reducing the increases and will continue to offer bribes to the majority of Americans in the form of tax holidays and the like that will only continue to make things worse.  Romney will be chosen for us as the Republican nominee and the shit that is destroying this country will continue because the ruling class is getting theirs.  What is almost certainly the most important election in any of our lives will wind up being one of the most inconsequential.

141

You suffer from arachnocoulrophobia?  Have you tried desensitization therapy? 

AARRRGGHHH! 

That would be no. 

142 Okay a serious question to the "I won't vote for Romney, not even in the general election, and if that means more Obama, then so be it" crowd:  So do you actually believe then that things are hopeless?  What are you doing to prepare for the inevitable collapse?

143 @ 125

  Exactly what I've been harping on--without ironclad control in the House and Senate nothing good is going to happen.

  Question is, will ABO translate into voter participation with Romney as the selection?

  Got some serious doubt, if that's the scenario.

144 Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 10:16 AM (i6RpT)

+1

The argument that sitting out, or voting for the JEF will hasten the downfall of the country and will ultimately be a better way of fixing the problem is embarrassingly stupid.

145 See, see how chemjeff gives me nice things and not clowns/spiders/clownspiders?  Chemjeff, you may sleep inside once I establish Alextopia.

Thank you.  There will be room for my Mad Scientist Laboratory, right?

146 Fuck that attitude. I'm with Monty. Tried the "great compromise" theory for 40 years. If/when I get boned, it will be for a reason I understand this time. Posted by: jwb7605 at November 29, 2011 10:19 AM (Qxe/p) Your fighting the wrong war at the wrong time. You want to change the Republican Party, fine I got no problem with that, but now is NOT the time. Get rid of obama first, then take a sledge hammer to the Party if you like.

147 I have a feeling that the real action is downticket anyway in the Senate and House races.

Posted by: Monty

alright, I understand  this part.
still what about judges etc?

148 140 Anybody who threatens to sit out the 2012 Presidential Vote, vote for obama, a third party, or a write in vote is part of the problem, not the solution.

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 10:16 AM (i6RpT)

Not quite sure why my vote for president really matters here in NY, but if that's the case, consider me part of the problem.

149 Can you catch job with my favorite trap?

http://tinyurl.com/bpljd3k

150 Not quite sure why my vote for president really matters here in NY, but if that's the case, consider me part of the problem.

Same day registration & voting in Ohio.  Be a part of the solution.

151 But itÂ’s socially very expensive to have a lot of unproductive people around, especially in a vast welfare state like ours. ItÂ’s unsustainable to keep transferring wealth from the productive to the unproductive.

Their worth is in their nutritional value..."Soylent Green" baby.  I am dead serious when I say make these people earn their entitlements by putting them on giant hamster wheels and generating green energy.

152 Monty. I am also qorried and our left holding the bag, Yet to Him have another term is sure doom, while it might be  possible to control the Republican?

153 q=w

154 RE: Romney

Every day I'm more and more with Romney on this one.  I'm not convinced that Romney would actually put Conservative justices on the bench anyway (that would be too polarizing, you see.  Too divisive), so I think that's a false choice.  And I do believe that any congress conservative enough to control Romney would also be conservative enough to neutralize Obama.

So don't tell me "anyone but Obama," tell me why (with actual history to back it up) your candidate (Romney, in this case) is actively better than Obama.

155 for crying out loud, i ho[e you could understand that post.

156 Your fighting the wrong war at the wrong time. You want to change the Republican Party, fine I got no problem with that, but now is NOT the time. Get rid of obama first, then take a sledge hammer to the Party if you like.

I don't want to change any Party (I've been "unaffiliated" for the last 40 years).
There are 2 people remaining in the R primary I would happily vote for.
That does NOT include Romney.
Taking a sledge hammer to a party is as effective as using a warm fork to eat Jello with.

157 while it might be  possible to control the Republican?

Any congress conservative enough to "control" Mittens Romney would be conservative enough to neutralize Obama.

158 Allen, ugh, that post helf little hope. We know the top wants Romney, can we the people win our pick?

159 I see that Fast and Furious - SCOAMF's Watergate - has all but fallen from the headlines.  That's convenient.  Cain's indiscretions are certainly newsworthy though.

160 yeehaw!  I knew when Monty commented on the "not voting for Romney" thing the thread would get fun!

161 cannot find my contacts, i'm doomed!

162 For those of you who would rather see Obama than Romney, two words:
Antonin Scalia
He is currently 75 years old.

163 So do you actually believe then that things are hopeless?

Things are never hopeless; that's not what I'm saying. But a vote for Mitt is a vote for a technocracy, for more Statism, and for more get-along-go-along "conservatism" that merely delays the utlimate reckoning rather than meeting it head-on. I will not be jawboned into a vote for some mealy-mouthed haircut in a suit.

Think about Romney's defenses of RomneyCare in Mass. Not so much the fact that he passed it -- he was a governor of a liberal state, after all -- but his continued defense of it even in light of what a disaster it has turned into, and the obvious parallels it has with ObamaCare. Is this really the man you are hoping will repeal ObamaCare? Is this really the man who will lead the charge for fiscal responsibility and smaller government?

It is Mitt's defense of the indefensible that turned me against him. He is a Statist, in blood and bone, and will govern as one. I will not vote for him.

164 that post helf little hope

Have you been partaking of the AoSHQ Lifestyle a little early this morning?

As for your question: I don't know.  I hope so.  Moreover, I seriously believe that Romney hurts our chances in down-ticket races.  Too many people don't like him.

165 Thank you.  There will be room for my Mad Scientist Laboratory, right?

Posted by: chemjeff at November 29, 2011 10:21 AM (s7mIC)

She's not going to let you engineer any clownspiders, you know that, right?

166 alex what about clownfish?

167 "I will not be jawboned into a vote for some mealy-mouthed haircut in a suit."

Oh Monty that is perfect in every way.  And so describes how a lot of us feel.

168 Anyone threatening to sit out the election and let obama back in reminds me of all them japanese civilians who jumped off the cliffs on Saipan.

169

Thank you.  There will be room for my Mad Scientist Laboratory, right?

Mais naturellment!

Okay, I can feel the eye twitch starting re:  a cut in the rate of growth being considered a cut.  More is more!  More is not less!  If you spend more than last year it's still more even if it's less more!  

Gah.  I really need to take up daytime drinking. 

 

 

170 OMG. We lost the last time because of this. *Bangs head on desk* That and an ineffectual candidate and a fellating media but still. *head banging*

171 Real Texans don't put any beans in our chili.

As far as the aesthetics of taste are concerned, subtlety beats overstatement. Concerning human nutrition, it's better to combine your dietary proteins either with rice/grains or legumes as well as providing your complex carbohydrates, not to mention fiber. And legumes help prevent cancer. As far as budget enters the picture, "Real Texans" do indeed stretch out their available meat with chili and beans: Frijoles charros.

 

172 For those of you who would rather see Obama than Romney, two words:
Antonin Scalia
He is currently 75 years old.

Do you seriously believe that Mittens would appoint another Scalia?  Or is it more likely that we'd get another Kennedy (at best)?

173 Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 10:30 AM (i6RpT)

Romney is Obama only whiter and with way better hair.

174 Romney is Obama only whiter and with way better hair. Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 10:31 AM (oZfic) Ah bullshit

175 I was looking at the price of beef last night at the grocery. Beans are starting to look better and better. My husband the lawyer grandson of a butcher is going to be seriously unhappy.

176 Too many people don't like him.

Mitt Romney reminds me of several young men my daughters brought home who called me "sir" once too often to be believable.

They eventually figured it out -- one during the engagement period.

177 Think about Romney's defenses of RomneyCare in Mass. Not so much the fact that he passed it -- he was a governor of a liberal state, after all -- but his continued defense of it even in light of what a disaster it has turned into, and the obvious parallels it has with ObamaCare. Is this really the man you are hoping will repeal ObamaCare? Is this really the man who will lead the charge for fiscal responsibility and smaller government?

It is Mitt's defense of the indefensible that turned me against him. He is a Statist, in blood and bone, and will govern as one. I will not vote for him.

Posted by: Monty at November 29, 2011 10:28 AM (/0a60)

This.  His protectiveness of RomneyCare is one of the things that turned me off of his candidacy.  He strikes me as more of the "we can run big government more efficiently" type than the "let's reduce big government back to its Constitutional limits" type.

178 Allen, re , partaking, no.
i have tried my husbands specs but it makes the keys all blurry also. i need a lit keyboard with huge letters.
you know what's wrong with eyes and no glasses, trying to find the contacts without them.

179 What is almost certainly the most important election in any of our lives will wind up being one of the most inconsequential.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at November 29, 2011 10:19 AM

It'll be consequential all right. You -- and I, and we -- just won't like the consequences.

That second term for the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure and the greedy, felonious toads in Congress will give them a free pass to implement the rest of their country-destroying agenda. After all, Osama Obama has lived his entire life knowing there are no comebacks for anything he wants to do, and what little restraint he might have felt during his first term will vanish in 2013. He's protected in a way only such luminaries as Papa Doc, Li'l Kim and Robert Mugabe could understand. The difference being that those totalitarian monsters relied on force to retain power. Obama relies on liberals, race guilt and the media.

I dislike The Newt, despise Mutt Romney and RON PAUL!!11!!!, am disappointed in Cain, and am excessively neutral about second-class bumpkins like Huntsman and Santorum. That leaves me with Perry, who seems at least to be a decent alternative.

Even if the Repubs melt down and pick Mutt (or worse), he'll get my vote. When the choice is between turd-polishing and plain old dirt-polishing, dirt is cleaner.

180 Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 10:32 AM (i6RpT)

You didn't see that lovely new DNC commercial that was posted?  It was so boring cut it off half way but it got the point across.

181 >>161 q=w Posted by: willow at November 29, 2011 10:25 AM (h+qn << Okay, then. Is that for the qhole blog, all day? Or just for this thread?

182 well this election is sure to finish me off. damn it.

183 Do you seriously believe that Mittens would appoint another Scalia?  Or is it more likely that we'd get another Kennedy (at best)?

Never forget that it was the elder Bush who nominated David Souter. How'd that work out for us?

184
Not quite sure why my vote for president really matters here in NY, but if that's the case, consider me part of the problem.





Actually, it does matter......for the inevitable post-Nov 3 SCOAMF election-stealing lawsuit (a la ManBearPig in 2000). The percentage of the National popular vote is sure to be prominent in the lawsuit. Anything we can do to bump up that number makes the lawsuit more difficult for the SCOAMF and his cock-slobbering minions.

185 Romney, on the other hand, does have some fear, he does not want (nor does he need) a primary challenge from the right.

Romney won't have any such fear.  Why would he?  He would have gotten the nomination despite the base in the first place, so he wouldn't be afraid of any primary challenge.

And my point is we would have to have a veto-proof majority before any congress would be conservative enough to control Mittens.  He's far too willing to "compromise," and too afraid to be "divisive."  We would have to be able to neuter him completely (by over-riding several vetoes and making him a 'lame duck') to control him.

186 I'm still holding out for Perry.

187

Grow up, people. There will be only two choices for President on the ballot with any chance of winning. That's a fact. Given that fact, make the adult decision to choose one of them. Don't be the bratty kid who when given a choice between vanilla and chocolate, throws a tantrum because he can't have strawberry.

188 Astute Old Lady at November 29, 2011 10:12 AM (DrWcr)
LOL!

189

alex

what about clownfish?

Hmmm.  They are sort of clowny but on the other hand I'm allowed to actually spearfish them and I've been told I can't spearhunt clowns.  I shall have to ponder. 

190 You didn't see that lovely new DNC commercial that was posted? It was so boring cut it off half way but it got the point across. Posted by: blue bonnet at November 29, 2011 10:34 AM (oZfic) You all want to go over that cliff with obama and the radical left be my guest, but don't expect me to wave good-bye, wish you well, or hold your hand on the way down.

191 Yesterday saw a young guy wearing a hat in a beautiful black mercedes convertible and on the right hand corner, not even on the bumper, was his beautifully placed Ron Paul bumper sticker.  He was obviously in his late twenties or early thirties and you knew he'd made the money to buy that mercedes.  I guess Ron Paul attracts everyone.

192 He is a Statist, in blood and bone, and will govern as one.

Yeah he is, Monty.  He actually believes government can solve problems.  And you know what?  So do most Americans.  We aren't going to have a minimal Libertarian state at any point in the near future.  People want their government gravy, and that includes government "help" with health care.  Romney has said that he believes it should be done at the state level.  I think that is as good as we are going to get at any time in the foreseeable future.

193 @162
Yeah, the "proof" that Romney would appoint conservative judges is that Justice Bork is an advisor.  It's never based on his record.  Give me a break.

And you're right that he will govern from the middle (at best), which means making nice-nice with the Dems.

I was thinking about this clown car of a primary season and concluding that so much of it has been media and blog driven.  All designed to create the illusion that Republicans can't be trusted to govern or that Mitt is the inevitable one.  It's like two goals - the liberal one and the Romney one - have coalesced into one strategy, to jump on and feed upon every rumor and misstep by each of the non-Romney candidates. And part of this is to dismiss the actual records of the people involved, giving Romney a pass on his weak record and completely discounting the records of the others.  Hell, even Bachmann, who is deeply flawed as a campaigner and certainly not my first or second choice, has accomplished more good for conservatives than Romney. 

I just hope people come out of their emotional flailing long enough to sit down and really look at all of the candidates.  Ask themselves if Bachmann pushing the Gardasil thing is enough to dismiss her or if Newt's impressive gift of gab is enough to make him qualified to be the conservative POTUS or if Perry's mishandling of the debates means he can't be president or if Mitt's style makes up for his weak conservative substance. 

I know there's a tendency to try to find an excuse for peoples' choices when they do not fit our own, but looking at the polls right now, it really seems like it's very emotionally driven, and I include Mitt's support in that too since it seems to be primarily a fear of not unseating Obama that forms the basis of it. 

194 Deety, i should keep my tqo fingers to mqself , in the interest of liking you guys enough to not torture you anymore.

195

How ironic that the British embassy is being invaded by islamist iranians in iran while the rest of the islamists are living in london.

196 Look at the side bar. If you want to contact the Mayor of Richmond, they have a helpful contact page. tinyurl.com/d65d4rc

197

I figure that I voted for McCain in 2008 so I can vote for Romney in 2012. McCain was the second worst candidate I ever pulled the lever for. (Arlen Specter being the worst)

I agree with Monty's assessment, that he's essentially a right leaning statist technocrat. He's American's version of a Tory. "Elect me, I can run the welfare state more efficiently and thereby delay the inevitable another decade or two".

While it's not what I want, it's actually damn near the opposite of what I want, my hatred for Obama's policies and the man himself will be all the motivation I need.

I don't buy into the JeffB or Polynikes argument that Mitt is actually a conservative or that his record in Massachusett(e)s is somehow a good one.  He's an old fashioned right leaning statist that our party has been producing since the 1930s.

I am hopeful that he will repeal Obamacare, cut back regulations and name conservatives to the SC. I am probably being foolish, but what option do I have at this point? I wanted Perry, he has the best record of the lot, but he's not even polling in the top 3 right now and elections start in a little over a month.

 

198 Big Law is facing (an utterly hilarious if it doesn't impact you) situation

I never understood those who go into Big Law. You mean to tell me you're going to give up 40%+ of what you've earned, put yourself in a high-tax bracket to give up even more, and work a lot more hours than is healthy when all along you have the skills in your head to work for yourself and keep what you kill? All because you're too chicken-shit to give up a regular paycheck?

199 I decided a long time ago that I would probably sit this election out if Romney is selected for us for two reasons:  If he is the nominee, it will be because he was selected for us and that means we will continue slowly down the socialism road and, if Obama is re-elected, we will go over the cliff faster and get it over with.  

200 Look at the side bar. If you want to contact the Mayor of Richmond, they have a helpful contact page. tinyurl.com/d65d4rc Posted by: Max Power at November 29, 2011 10:37 AM (+wxCD) Is that the commie prick auditing the Tea party?

201 Do you seriously believe that Mittens would appoint another Scalia?  Or is it more likely that we'd get another Kennedy (at best)?

I think we would get another Kennedy at best.  But with Obama we would get another wise Latina.

202 Romney ...way better...hair?

203 Look, I'm holding out for Perry too but I will vote for ANYBODY against Obama unless David Axelrod suddenly gets the GOP nomination. And at least Axelrod and his greasy communist combover appear to be hetero.

204 I got a coin flip chance.

No you don't.  At best, you have the odds in Craps (which aren't very good).  Mitt Romney is not conservative.  He's a big-business liberal who happens to have an 'R' after his name on a ballot.  He likes ethanol subsidies, he still supports health-care mandates, and I can't find one actual conservative thing he's accomplished in his record.  Oh, and he was liberal enough for the people of Massachusetts (see also: Frank, Barney; Kerry, John; Kennedy, Teddy).

205 Hi Y-not, how are you doing this morning

206 Yeah, I don't think the Supreme Court should be composed entirely of lesbionic communists. The whole "robe" thing will get really dicey.

207 I still don't get the hysteria about Romney. Her is stuck, stuck like a car in the mud in Alabama, at 25%. No matter what anyone else does, he stays at 25%. Why? Because 75% of the Party hates him and doesn't trust him. So all this talk about the "elites" giving him the nomination, I just don't see it. Personally i think he has a huge problem and maybe an insurmontable one at that

208 Mitt Romney is not conservative.

Okay, fine.  He is not conservative.

Do you think he would be better than Obama?

209 Think about Romney's defenses of RomneyCare in Mass. Not so much the fact that he passed it -- he was a governor of a liberal state, after all -- but his continued defense of it even in light of what a disaster it has turned into, and the obvious parallels it has with ObamaCare.

^This. 

Early in the primary season (before Perry and before the field had fully solidified) I defended Mitt - hell a bunch of us here did - for the passage of Masscare for the reasons you state.  (And, in deference to the reality of how it passed, I even stick to calling it Masscare instead of Romneycare.)  But the assumption we were making was the Mitt had used his couple of years of "unemployment" (his words; how he gets a pass on that I'll never know) to dissect what went wrong with Masscare and develop a detailed policy on the national model.  When he refused to do that, he lost me for good. 

210 196 I'm still holding out for Perry.

Posted by: Vic at November 29, 2011 10:35 AM (YdQQY)

Me too, Vic.  Silly us, huh.

211 Yeah he is, Monty.  He actually believes government can solve problems.  And you know what?  So do most Americans.

Actually, no, they don't. Have you seen Congress's approval ratings lately? They're complete dogshit. Granted, Americans dislike Congress for completely different reasons based on what political ideology they hew to, but I think you'd have to really work to find people who think that the government can "solve problems".

I keep hearing the "this is not the time to change the GOP!" argument. I heard it in 2004, in 2008, and again this year. I'm not falling for it. If the GOP can't be a truly conservative party, then maybe it should go the way of the Whigs.

I won't lend my name to the continued degradation of the republic. If this is tilting at windmills, so be it. At least I can look at myself in the mirror every morning.

212 216 Yeah, I don't think the Supreme Court should be composed entirely of lesbionic communists.

Yay, there's room on the court for ME!

213 I was just reading my son's AP American History book so I could proof his paper comparing our response to the Somali pirates vs Barbary pirates. Jefferson was a real POS.

214
  The idea of a write in is appealing, though not likely. Some way there has to be a method of insuring voter turnout--and I got no idea what  that would be.

  Any ideas here?

215 Actually, no, they don't.

Yes they do.  They don't think that *this* government is *capable* of solving many if any problems, but they believe in the *concept* that government *can and should* solve some problems.  Even we conservatives believe that to some extent, right?  Don't we want the government to solve the problem of border security?

I guess my point here is that it is unrealistic to expect any candidate to be advocating for some Libertarian ideal of a minimalist state when there are so many people, even among conservatives, who demand much more from their government.  YES I think Romney wants the government to do more than it ought to.  But I still think it would be a nudge in favor of more conservative principles, and not a nudge away from it.

216 171 So do you actually believe then that things are hopeless?

Things are never hopeless; that's not what I'm saying. But a vote for Mitt is a vote for a technocracy, for more Statism, and for more get-along-go-along "conservatism" that merely delays the utlimate reckoning rather than meeting it head-on. I will not be jawboned into a vote for some mealy-mouthed haircut in a suit.

Think about Romney's defenses of RomneyCare in Mass. Not so much the fact that he passed it -- he was a governor of a liberal state, after all -- but his continued defense of it even in light of what a disaster it has turned into, and the obvious parallels it has with ObamaCare. Is this really the man you are hoping will repeal ObamaCare? Is this really the man who will lead the charge for fiscal responsibility and smaller government?

It is Mitt's defense of the indefensible that turned me against him. He is a Statist, in blood and bone, and will govern as one. I will not vote for him.

Posted by: Monty at November 29, 2011 10:28 AM (/0a60)

Exactly. This, this a thousand times. That is why I get so bothered by those considering Romney or Newt. There is one guy running who has the organization, the staff, and the money to beat Romney. He's also the only guy talking about freeing our energy and job engines from the strangulation of government.

And the whole Supreme Court cry is bullshit too. It don't mean jack diddly shit who is on the Supreme Court if Obamacare is not repealed top to bottom, root and limb. (Because, the dirty little secret is the best case scenario of the pending litigation is a partial repeal of the individual mandate--leaving all the rest of the law in place.) The machinery of a totalitarian socialist state is already in place. Obama has got that done. And there is nothing a Supreme Court can do once it becomes the status quo.

217 dagny, which history book does your son use? My daughter is in AP history as well, although they are up to the Civil War already. She's discovering that Lincoln was... well, not all that.

218 Do you think he would be better than Obama?

Not significantly, no.

Where would he be better?  He had to be forced to say he'd sign a repeal of ObamaCare- he just wanted "waivers" (which, as has been pointed out, could be waived by any state that still wanted the rest of the Tax Payers to pay for their citizens' health insurance).  He certainly won't fight for that repeal- and he would need to.

Obama has "stayed the course" (more-or-less) in Iraq and Afghanistan.  He has made some decisions with which I completely disagree, and he's screwed up our diplomacy, but certainly not irreparably, and I'm not sure (though I have more confidence here than anywhere else) that Romney would be much better.

Obama has kept the Bush tax rates, and Romney is nearly as big a spender as Obama anyway.  He wouldn't have asked for the Stimulus, or much of what Obama has asked for (and gotten), but now that it's on the books, I don't expect Romney to try to stop any of that money from being spent, either.

219 Yeah, I don't think the Supreme Court should be composed entirely of lesbionic communists. The whole "robe" thing will get really dicey. Posted by: dagny at November 29, 2011 10:40 AM

How about goat-schtupping Muzzies?

I'm seeing that as the next "not like all the guys on paper money" response from President Historic First©. Now that he's put a Lebanese woman (h/t Bill Handel) and an Oppressed Hispanic Minority on SCoTUS, he can really go for the gold.

Worse, the friggin' hayseeds on the R side of Congress will let him do it. How could they possibly oppose Diversity?

220

>>I decided a long time ago that I would probably sit this election out if Romney is selected for us for two reasons: If he is the nominee, it will be because he was selected for us and that means we will continue slowly down the socialism road and, if Obama is re-elected, we will go over the cliff faster and get it over with.  

I don't buy this argument. I don't like Romney, but the only people that will be doing the selecting are the voters. These aren't the old conventions where delegates work out backroom deals to pick a candidate. These are direct elections. If Romney wins, it's because the majority(or plurality) voted for him to be our candidate.

There is no conspiracy, there is no establishment forcing people to vote for him. 

If there is anyone I'm bitter at right now, it's the individual conservative voters. They are so worried about getting screwed by the establishment that they aren't being wary of smooth talking "conservative" pretenders.

The very fact that Cain was popular or leading should be an indication of how little thought conservatives are giving to this primary. They are running on emotion and not logic right now.

I hate to harp on Cain, but compare him to Romney on the issues. They're essentially the same person on core conservative issues like abortion, gun control, and the like, but because people "feel" that Cain is conservative, they gave him a pass.

This is what is going to give us Romney, not some shadow establishment.  There are three people in this race that are credible based on their records. Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

 

221 I've got to say that I'm with Monty on this one.  We convince ourselves that whoever we 'get', we have to support the team, even when the team has been every bit as guilty over the years in putting us in this position as the other side.  It was our team that gave conservatism a bad name with their bullshit "compassionate conservatism" which was nothing more than progressivism light.  I'm not going to be talked into being liberal.

222 Is this really the man who will lead the charge for fiscal responsibility and smaller government?

No, that should come from Congress.  I absolutely agree that we must have a conservative Congress.

223 I'm not happy about the polls either, but that Battleground Poll showing Perry ahead of Romney in CA, TX, and FL gives me a glimmer of hope and anyway this is voting for the nominee, not trying to make football picks.  I'm voting for Perry if he is on the ballot. 

I really encourage people to vote their conscience in the primary and not talk yourselves into voting for a compromise candidate right now. 

I honestly can't see why someone like chemjeff, who is much more libertarian leaning than I am, would vote for Romney in the primary.  If he's inevitable, he's inevitable.  You can happily vote for him in the general.  But voting for one of the most liberal of the primary candidates sends the wrong signal to the Party.  Shit, you'd be better off voting for Johnson. 

224 Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel ... and as for those gate camping dirtbags ... they are most probably lazy democrats or future lazy democrats, just hanging around and sucking off of the efforts of everyone else! Spawn killing dirtbags are without a  doubt democrats, and they deserve four more years of lazy leadership! So, you dopey democrats, stop the camping and stop the spawn killing (and while you are at it just put down that chicken sniper rifle) or your karma may catch up to you and we will all lose the big game!

225 227 American Pagent. It's actually pretty good. I read it cover to cover when my older son took honors and used the same book. I can't find too much bias in it and I'm a pro.

226 Look, I'm not going to sit here all day arguing with the pure of heart about Mitt Romney, a candidate that I am not voting for in the primary. I have enough sense of self worth that I don't need to beat my chest proclaiming how pure of a conservative I am.

You know what, I may have missed earlier comments, but I haven't seen anyone call you a RINO on this thread.  I have seen those of us who do not want Romney called childish and delusional and, apparently, "purity" voters. 

227 Grow up, people.

The two flavors we are being offered are cyanide and arsenic.

228 I'm also holding out for Perry. I am a bitter clinger, I guess. That being said, I guess...I might be able to vote for Romney. *spit* There, I said it!

229 Posted by: Ben at November 29, 2011 10:48 AM (wuv1c)

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy either, Ben.  Not in the ooOOoo sense, but I do remember how Dole got the nomination and how that all happened within the machinations of American politics.  Dole was selected because it was his turn.  No other reason.  There were multitudes of people who knew that Dole was a crappy choice but...

230 I'm glad, dagny, because I'm pretty sure that's what my daughter uses also. I've tried to pay attention as to what both of my daughters are learning in history, and correct when necessary.

231 I have seen those of us who do not want Romney called childish and delusional and, apparently, "purity" voters. Posted by: Y-not at November 29, 2011 10:54 AM (5H6zj) I DON"T want Romney. And I will NOT vote for Romney in the Primary. But I'll be damned if I'll sit out the General election in Nov 2012 and let the bastard obama back into the White House. That has nothing what so ever to do with purity but with good old common sense.

232 I honestly can't see why someone like chemjeff, who is much more libertarian leaning than I am, would vote for Romney in the primary.

Because he currently has the best chance of beating Obama.  It is a tactical decision. 

Reducing government won't happen under Obama.  Reducing government *might* happen under Romney.
Reducing government *will* happen under Perry, I'm sure, but only if he can first beat Obama.

233 I DON"T want Romney. And I will NOT vote for Romney in the Primary. But I'll be damned if I'll sit out the General election in Nov 2012 and let the bastard obama back into the White House. That has nothing what so ever to do with purity but with good old common sense.

That is precisely the attitude that gave us presidents Dole and McCain.

234 I will be voting for Pat Paulson. Thank You.

235

The very fact that Cain was popular or leading should be an indication of how little thought conservatives are giving to this primary. They are running on emotion and not logic right now.

I hate to harp on Cain, but compare him to Romney on the issues. They're essentially the same person on core conservative issues like abortion, gun control, and the like, but because people "feel" that Cain is conservative, they gave him a pass.

This is what is going to give us Romney, not some shadow establishment.  There are three people in this race that are credible based on their records. Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.

 

Posted by: Ben at November 29, 2011 10:48 AM (wuv1c)

I agree with you on who is crediible. Yet posters trying to protect most of the candidates  are to Blame?

Hell I don't want the candidate knocked out unless proven un-electable. and with all of them having a wart here or there, who's to say what un-elecatble is. you bring up Newt as credible, others say no, I say yes, but so what?

I want Perrry as He seems to actually have a record many of us can get behind.

i think much of the fighting is a desire to have US actually vote for our candidate.

236 Reducing government *might* happen under Romney.

No it won't.

Does that simplify your decision tree?  Romney has no desire to reduce government.  He doesn't think that government, in itself, is the problem.  He thinks that he can do it "better," and "more efficiently."  He doesn't believe that actively cutting government would actually make things better.

237 I DON"T want Romney. And I will NOT vote for Romney in the Primary. But I'll be damned if I'll sit out the General election in Nov 2012 and let the bastard obama back into the White House. That has nothing what so ever to do with purity but with good old common sense. That is precisely the attitude that gave us presidents Dole and McCain. Posted by: jwb7605 at November 29, 2011 10:58 AM (Qxe/p) ??? Since I said I do NOT support Romney, and neither will I vote for him in the Primary, how the fuck you get that is how we got Dole and McCain?

238 The left already knows who the nominee is going to be.  That's why they are already running ads against him.  They're pretty good ads, too. 

239 I guess my point here is that it is unrealistic to expect any candidate to be advocating for some Libertarian ideal of a minimalist state when there are so many people, even among conservatives, who demand much more from their government.

This is a silly reductio ad absurdum. I can argue for a much smaller government without resorting to a minimalist Libertarian ideal. Let's settle on a number: say, the size of the government in 1995.Or even 1985. Surely that's not some "minimalist" state, right?

So if I advocate for a simple diminution of the leviathan we have now, in no way does that mean I advocate for a return to some libertarian ideal. Our government is too damned big, by far. It could shrink by 25% or more with no impact whatever on the average citizen (except that it would cost less).

Liberals rejoice when conservatives argue that the size and scope of the federal government cannot realistically be reduced, because it means they are succeeding. It will never be any easier, or cheaper, to reduce the size of the government than it is right now. And there will be a time when it will be too late: I'd rather at least try and fail than not try at all.

240

I understand how important it is for some to stand on principal or teach the R's a lesson or whatever. You'll also be going all in on letting in burn, which of course, is your right. Doing nothing is choice you have.

Here's the thing about that though. Lets say enough people who oppose The SCFOAMF just stay home because it's Mittens and Obama gets 4 more years filled with executive orders and maybe a supreme court appointment or two. And, you let the world burn. And your a little satisfied with that because, goddamnit you told them not to nominate Mittens, didn't you?

And then, and then, in 2016 when we are much worse off you're gonna come to guys like me and say, hey, we've got this super pure conservative candidate named Rubio and he's the shit. Get on board partner! Lets get America back on track! It's gonna be all downhill and shady from now on.

And I am going to turn to you and say; sorry old pal, it's too late, you see I am just gonna sit this one out because I'm spiteful and if we let it burn, why not down to just ash? I am not nearly as smart as some of you but I learn painful lessons. 

241 I DON"T want Romney. And I will NOT vote for Romney in the Primary. But I'll be damned if I'll sit out the General election in Nov 2012 and let the bastard obama back into the White House.
------

Look, I understand that sentiment and I am not dismissing the possibility of voting for Mitt in the general, either.  (Hell, I'd even vote for him in the primary if the other candidate was Ron Paul.) 

But I think it's very counter-productive for us to swear fealty to the GOP candidate in the general this early in the game.  It sends the wrong message to the Party and Mr. Twenty-five Percent, neither of which has made any effort to try to draw in conservatives.  And the insults from the Smart Republicans against anyone who is not on the Mitt train - which is three-quarters of our voters, apparently - have got to stop. 

And, for another thing, Mitt is not vetted.  He really isn't.  He has not had the level of scrutiny you get in a general (or that many of the current primary candidates have gotten already - Newt and Bachmann, in particular, but also Perry who faced real Democrat challengers over the years running for office and has had a target on his back since he entered the race).  So I don't know much about this guy or how he holds up to scrutiny, except to see him whine like a baby when Perry went after him in one debate. 

242
No it won't.

Well for sure he will have to be forced into it by a conservative Congress.  If Congress sends Romney a budget with *less* than what he asked for, will Romney dare veto it?  He might, sure, but there is a good chance that he won't.  If Congress sends Obama that same budget?  Hells yeah he vetoes it.

243

>>I'm not saying it's a conspiracy either, Ben. Not in the ooOOoo sense, but I do remember how Dole got the nomination and how that all happened within the machinations of American politics. Dole was selected because it was his turn. No other reason. There were multitudes of people who knew that Dole was a crappy choice but...

I didn't mean conspiracy in the Ron Paul sense, but I everytime I hear the word establishment, I think people are missing what's behind the other door. In this case a conservative pretender in one form or another.

Dole won in 1996 because the vase majority of Republicans voted for him. Republican voters tend to fall in line and that's no one fault but their own.

He was a crappy candidate, and I think most people knew that, yet they voted for him anyway.  It's not like there weren't viable options with Pat Buchanon(who i don't like) and Steve Forbes(who I do like).

However, times were different then. The conservatives hadn't found their voice. It was a time of post cold war peace and people wanted stability and vanilla choices. It's only in a post 9/11 and post financial decline world that conservatives ceased to be the silent partner in the Republican party. However in 2008 we split our vote between several decent candidates. (Fred, Rudy, Huck and Romney) and we ended up with McCain. By the time conservatives realized this, it was a three man race with two "conservatives" splitting the not-McCain vote.

It looks like we're heading down that path again and I think that we'll have no one to blame but outselves.

244 I went down and stood in the rain to vote for McCain last time. I swore I would never do that again. I am sick of voting against the communist and accepting the lesser of two evils. Romney is a Democrat as far as his record goes.

I will vote for Perry in the primary and pray he makes it through because right now I have no idea what I will do if Romney or Newt wins. But one thing all should keep in mind, the early primaries are nothing like they were last time. Nobody will get knocked out by the early primaries.

245 Monty said; And there will be a time when it will be too late: I'd rather at least try and fail than not try at all.

Posted by: Monty at November 29, 2011 11:02 AM (/0a60)

So saying this , you are saying that we won't make it to the next election cycle? or that we will but you hope to be able to vote the next election an actual conservative candidate

246 "Personally, I dislike the whole “wealth gap” argument.  In a country where the poorest people can afford iPods, video game machines, cars, refrigerators, flat-screen TVÂ’s, plenty of food, and a roof over their heads, then the “gap” is nothing compared to most of human history." 

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying and posting for the last 5 years.  In fact, I've used specific examples -- I ask people how much Cornelius Vanderbilt (after explaining who he is) paid for penicillin -- didn't exist.  How much George Washington paid for electricity to power his fan during hot Mt. Vernon Summers, etc.  The "gap" people are fucking CLUELESS.  Look, there are clearly problems in our system.  It's being abused and we are running into serious debt.  However, the concept that the "rich" want to institute a tyranny, make us perpetually poor, and deny us all our rights in a fascist police state runs right into the fact that the corporations which "control" our government and lives want us to buy ever-increasingly awesome gadgets and suconspiring toch.  I really don't see Apple, Microsoft, Motorola, and GE looking at North Korea as a role model for where they want to take us.

247  #211
Yes, the '08 GOP mantra was all about SCOTUS nominees, touting first principles and the integrity of our Constitution. How quickly and far '08 GOP fell after TARP and McCain's willing suspension of the potus campaign to our disbelief. 2010: Tea Party revolt against overspending fell on deaf Washingtonian ears. 2012: "See, here's a signed document!" Stick to never jumping into a pile of leaves with a sucker.

248 Gateway Pundit has the story about how the Dems are going to use Newt to attack all the Republicans who voted for Ryan's plan:

“By calling Paul Ryan’s budget ‘radical’ and ‘right-wing social engineering,’ Newt merely echoed criticisms millions of Americans across the political spectrum have voiced at house Republicans’ budget for weeks now,” says Ryan Rudominer, a Democratic consultant and former spokesman for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. “So while Gingrich may now have as good a chance as me of winning the Republican nomination, those of us on the left can at least be thankful that he made Paul Ryan’s ‘radical’ budget to gut Medicare and provide billions in tax breaks for big oil companies the new litmus test in the Republican Party,” adds Rudominer."

Gee, let's nominate Newt to be our candidate. What a perfect way to get a more conservative House, having our nominee in attack ads attacking our Congressmen.

249 Let's settle on a number: say, the size of the government in 1995.Or even 1985. Surely that's not some "minimalist" state, right?

We can't even agree to go back to 2007 levels.  So yes, it is unrealistic to expect to go back to 1995 or 1985 levels all in one go.  So, for instance, let's close the Department of Energy, over the shrieks of the Left, note that the world doesn't come to an end, then repeat with the next Department.

250 Even the weather here today looks like doom. Cloudy, wet, and cold.

251  #255 Vic, the Republican Party is betting on having trained voters to take whatever is presented "for our own good".

252 Gee, let's nominate Newt to be our candidate. What a perfect way to get a more conservative House, having our nominee in attack ads attacking our Congressmen.
---
Well, we could go with Romney, who went eleventy when Perry used the term "Ponzi scheme."  A term, incidentally, that Ryan and DeMint also supported using. 

One thing about Newt.  I know he can take the fight to the Democrats and win.  I think if Newt were president (and he is my very very distant backup behind Perry at this point) we'd get a couple of big victories.  He strikes me as a guy who would enjoy making Pelosi and Reid eat shit just for spite, despite the couch photo. 

I have not seen anything in Mitt's record or rhetoric that tells me he would do that. 

253 I'm going to digress to try to make a point: When 9/11 hit, we really needed a great President.  Fate gave us a descent President.  He did an ok job, but he left the country out of the war on terror.  He sent the military, but he wanted the rest of the country be be unaffected.  That wasn't right, imo. 
Now, we are in a similar existential situation and we have the possibility of selecting someone who could have the potential to be a great President.  Or, we can have a fair one selected for us. 

I don't know if it is the absolutely right decision to make, but I'm going to be a big baby about this and take my ball and go home.

254 Well, whatevs.  Like I've said elsewhere, I will probably not even vote in the primary, because I truly don't like any of the choices.  But if it does end up being Romney in the general, I will absolutely vote for him and enthusiastically, because goal #1 is to get Obama out.  Nothing conservative can come to pass while he sits in the WH.

255 He strikes me as a guy who would enjoy making Pelosi and Reid eat shit just for spite, despite because of the couch photo.

FIFY.

256 Y-not, I fear that I have pissed you off, and I'm sorry if I have.

257 265 Well, whatevs.  Like I've said elsewhere, I will probably not even vote in the primary, because I truly don't like any of the choices.
--------
I love you, chemjeff, but that is foolish. 

258 264 I'm going to digress to try to make a point: When 9/11 hit, we really needed a great President.  Fate gave us a descent President.

////
A descent President?  Descent into overspending and an inability to publicly articulate anything in a 24 hour, on-demand, media age.

You mean decent.  Yeah, Bush was decent.  That's not an important quality in my mind.

259 No, chemjeff, sorry if it seemed like that.  I am not at all mad or anything. 

I just truly don't get why a libertarian-leaner like you would not want to send a message in the primary with your vote. 

260 Frankly, I think the only consistent politician, who's not far-left, is Ron Paul, not that I'm a Ronulan.

261 241 I'm glad, dagny, because I'm pretty sure that's what my daughter uses also. I've tried to pay attention as to what both of my daughters are learning in history, and correct when necessary.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at November 29, 2011 10:56 AM (MyByM)

I've jumped ugly on a couple of teachers over books. Turns out that they (catholic school not public) are stupid not evil. Scared one poor guy half to death. I went after him about "Native Son". He had no idea. I'm ranting and raving about Richard Wright and his editing the "Daily Worker" and he's looking at me like I'm speaking chinese. He showed me a power point where he "defines" communism. I ended up patting him on the back and leaving. There wasn't enough there with which to bother.

262 Posted by: SFGoth at November 29, 2011 11:13 AM (dZ756)

Neither is being obtuse.  You know the sense the word was intended.  Don't be a dick.

263 i'm actually having a difficult time wrapping my head around this discussion. I understand the negatives re; we will be responsible if it all falls to shit, if we were to win with a weak kneed candidate,(but we might have control over as He is ours)
but i look at the obvious failure of our financial system with Obama and groupies in charge.
can i say i just wantt to throw up in fear?

264 Decent is awesome compared for full out marxist SCOAMF.

265 I think George Bush felt that it was important after 9/11 to put country unity above pushing for a real conservative (domestic) agenda.  He thought they could be de-coupled somehow - the national security from the domestic issues.  He was wrong.  He should have used his popularity after 9/11 to lead the country to the right. 

But, he was also a "compassionate conservative" and what worries me is that Mitt is one, too.  But unlike George W, Mitt is not popular within his own party (amongst conservatives), so there is little chance he'd govern to the right of W. 

266 You mean decent.  Yeah, Bush was decent.  That's not an important quality in my mind.

I'll respectfully disagree with that.
You need decent and competent.
You need both, and you need them in that particular order.

What we have now is neither.
Newt is competent -- but if he's decent, it came in the wrong order.
Perry is decent -- but if he's competent, he's covering that up in the debates.  ("Bully Pulpit?  What??")

I gave up on Cain.

267

("Bully Pulpit?  What??")

Give me your lunch money.  NOW!!

268

Establishment republicans think that by financing and mouthing the platitudes about "helping people" that the media will then give them some cushion.

It doesn't work.

269 but i look at the obvious failure of our financial system with Obama and groupies in charge. can i say i just wantt to throw up in fear? Posted by: willow at November 29, 2011 11:16 AM (h+qn Just wait till obama's foreign policy decisions come home to roast. That will take your mind off of the fact that your broke

270 I'm tellin' ya, what we really need is to get Dr. Kratos on a cloning project to create:

Romnewtperrybachcainsantoruntsman

with:
Romney's managerial experience
Newt's intellect and debating skill
Perry's record as Texas governor (and hair)
Bachmann's intensity (and boobehs)
Cain's executive experience (and melanin)
Santorum's So-Con cred
Huntsman's bike

271 He had no idea. I'm ranting and raving about Richard Wright and his editing the "Daily Worker" and he's looking at me like I'm speaking chinese. He showed me a power point where he "defines" communism.

What I can never understand is how people can see how communism has failed everywhere it has been tried and yet they still persist in calling for its implementation here.

I have a SIL though who absolutely worships the Democrat Party even though their plank is the same as the communist party now. But if you call them communists she gets all huffy about it. They are not communists!  They are not socialists!

272 Just wait till obama's foreign policy decisions come home to roast. That will take your mind off of the fact that your broke

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 11:21 AM (i6RpT)

yeah, who needs a strong military!

273 76 "Not oil. Not gold or diamonds. Only human freedom ensures prosperity." Case in point, a former Soviet state, now Estonia ranks economically above the USA.

I was in Estonia for a couple days in 1994, shortly after the soviet "collapse" and their new found freedom.  The streets were lined with old women selling gobs of lilies of the valley for pennies, Tallin seemed like a piece of silver, tarnished with age.  As you progressed into the city, there were new shops, where younger people were making a go of entreprenuership. The tarnish was being rubbed off to a high shine.

I bought a handpainted tea set that was charming and delightful.  To this day, I look at it and ponder the strength of the people who won their freedom in the face of the worst oppression that ever faced mankind.  Congratulations Estonia.

274

Posted by: chemjeff at November 29, 2011 11:22 AM (s7mIC)

lol, Dr. Chemjeff!  This might be a better project for you.  How about we make some kind of cyborg with those type of attributes using a type of mimetic smart alloy?  It might be a better route than trying to utilize genetics.

btw, Cain is "reassessing" his candidacy. 

275

I have a SIL though who absolutely worships the Democrat Party even though their plank is the same as the communist party now. But if you call them communists she gets all huffy about it. They are not communists!  They are not socialists!

This is where I ask them how long it's been since they've read a book without pictures and not promulgated by Oprah.

276

Things are never hopeless; that's not what I'm saying. But a vote for Mitt is a vote for a technocracy, for more Statism, and for more get-along-go-along "conservatism" that merely delays the utlimate reckoning rather than meeting it head-on. I will not be jawboned into a vote for some mealy-mouthed haircut in a suit.

That makes me think. If the country elects [another] statist republican, do the governing class take it as conservative endorsement of the progessive drift? Whereas if we elect a democratic statist--with something less than a majority--do they take it as a divided mandate?

Oh, wait--our representatives don't really care that much what we really want any more than they care what we really need, do they?

Still, I'll hope the republican wins just because the procressives across teh country will take whoever it is as teh ascension of the devil and maybe a few will go amusingly loony.                

277 Rich brat who got her fame with almost no singing talent, a father already well known, Disney Corporation marketing, and autotune puts out a song that the OWS crowd is really like cool and rich people who aren't me really kinda suck. She does drugs too, just because it worked so well for Lindsey Lohan

Miley Cyrus Has a Terrible New Video

On the one hand sheÂ’s a 20 year old multi-millionaire famous around the world. On the other hand, sheÂ’s a stoner who, like, totally supports the filthy park people from, like, a distance. I guess you could say sheÂ’s got the best of both worlds.

278

Bye Barney, and thanks for all those "No Doc" loans, they sure resulted in a lot of available housing these days.

But then is is a Doom thread, and I can hear the thunder of the coming storm, the sky darkens, and the rains start.

Guns, whiskey, ammo, silver, MRE's (ugh), water, more ammo, storable food, ( Even Costco sells it now - http://zapit.nu/1jX  more water, gas, and a whole lot of other stuff.

Buy now, the rush is on. http://zapit.nu/1jY  Survival Gear Sales Surge.

Will it get bad enough for me to eat another MRE? I sure hope not, but I sure will be thankful I had them if I ever really do need them.

Right now to me it looks like Obama is in the lead for a second term. If he wins, expect a blizzard of liberal policies, laws, regulations, executive orders and perhaps a proclamation or two. Hope and change will prevail. And as Time told us, "We're all socialists now."

279

Posted by: kbdabear at November 29, 2011 11:34 AM (Y+DPZ)

There's a radio ad that runs a lot here for a talent agency that represents Disney.

I shudder every time a hear it because you can just about guarantee that whatever poor kid gets sucked into that will be ruined for life.

280 "Liberals rejoice when conservatives argue that the size and scope of the federal government cannot realistically be reduced, because it means they are succeeding. It will never be any easier, or cheaper, to reduce the size of the government than it is right now. And there will be a time when it will be too late: I'd rather at least try and fail than not try at all." THIS. Sadly many Americans love their dream of entitlements, promised by Uncle Sam yet seldom delivered on time or within budget.

281
Too Big Not to Fail: Imperial Governments from Moscow to Washington | Yuri N. Maltsev

Any government, big or small, is elementally socialist--the question being quantitative. It cannot be reformed, but merely kept under control. It cannot be made "efficient" [a la Gingrich] or "run as a business" as Ross Perot advocated [echoed by "dealer" Trump or "BEAMER" Cain or Olympic "savior" Romney]. Keep government small and under control of the people. Interestingly, Karl Marx (184 advocated the first "holocaust" targeting Eastern European civilizations for being so "backward" as deserving to be racially purged in order to benefit the Western European advancement of socialism as the wave of the future. During the 20th Century, 172 million people were slaughtered during peacetime by their own governments, not during wars, being deemed expendable dross, terminated without trials. Lenin: the only way socialism is "efficient" is through public executions, 10-12 thousand murdered by the state every day, as the remaining population "worked" efficiently in fear of life. With propagandists,  use capitalism to pollute the populations' brains. Taxes are being used to raise more taxes, the convoluted rationale turning out leftwing big-bigger-biggest government; ex., why we should financially support government education, radio or television. Refuse joining the brainwashed. "Leadership"... toxic and narcissistic leadership. The only lesson of history is that it doesn't teach us anything. See the beautiful country of Cuba having its people totally abused; the only thing Cubans have left to sell is their bodies, prostitution. Real socialism degenerates into public slavery. Entire populations are treated as dispossessed, not the government's responsibility or problem except to be eliminated for the sake of efficiency if nothing else. "Public slavery." That's why they are massively, purposefully neglected and then so easily killed by the millions.

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There's a radio ad that runs a lot here for a talent agency that represents Disney.

I shudder every time a hear it because you can just about guarantee that whatever poor kid gets sucked into that will be ruined for life.

Posted by: ErikW at November 29, 2011 11:42 AM

I've always wondered if Michael Eisner had a thing for underaged girls and his Disney Pop Idol factory was the best way to get him some private time with them

283 Just wait till obama's foreign policy decisions come home to roast. That will take your mind off of the fact that your broke

Posted by: nevergiveup at November 29, 2011 11:21 AM (i6RpT)

Typo, or Freudian slip?  I worry "roast" might be quite accurate...

284 Palantir (pronounced Pal-an-TEER), the War on Terror's Secret Weapon
A Silicon Valley startup that collates threats has quietly become indispensable to the U.S. intelligence community

Depending where you fall on the spectrum between civil liberties absolutism and homeland security lockdown, PalantirÂ’s technology is either creepy or heroic.

285 We desperately need something like Instant-Runoff Voting to allow for a more varied field of candidates without the voter feeling like he's throwing away his vote if he doesn't go for a front runner.

Think about how the 90s could have been different if all the Perot votes went to a secondary choice after Perot's count eliminated him. Nearly all of the Perotista's would have leaned right and their secondary would largely gone to Bush or Dole.

286

Let's be real for a minute or two.

The lessor candidates are finished, Backman, Huntsman, Santorum, and now Cain, leaving us Ron Paul, Mitt and Newt. Perry is a fading optinon but still viable. Did I leave anyone out? Opps, Trump, maybe.

Ron Paul is considered unelectable by the Republican establishment and the power/money brokers. Newt is not in favor either, but could finish strong, and Mitt is being mainstream attacked already.

Tough choices among seemingly flawed candidates. In an election where the Republicans should be expecting a landslide public mandate, this seems to be the best we can do.

And we have backbiting bickering damaging intra-party political attacks among all the candidates, even those with little chance.

Then there is the third party threat, pulling some right siders off the main train.

The Republicans need to get their act together and fast. A single united front focused laserlike on the failures of this administration and the policies that need elimination. Run against Obama, not each other.

287

"Romney is a statist in blood and bone."

Don't you understand that George Washington could not get elected in this political environment...This blog is chock full of arm-chair wizbangs who know what Romney is all about.  Maybe, just maybe he is smart enough to know the folly of too much government.  Its not that hard to figure out...Now, do you really think he could get elected saying that he was going to take a machete to entitlements.  The answer is no...Rick Perry came out swinging with his "Social Security is a ponzi scheme statement"  Well, we know that silly, but scaring the bejeesus out of tens of millions of seniors is not going to get you to the Whitehouse.   As we see, Perry is polling in single digits.  Ultimatetly, if you don't get elected your max effective range is zero meters to borrow a military adage.  Romney is a very bright guy.  He is a successful businessman afterall.  He knows how to develop winning systems and I'm sure he knows that more government is not a means to prosperity.

288 @298

twenty. five. percent.

289 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

290

299

25% hard ceiling...In the Republican primary, that might be enough to win...We'll see.  I'm just tired of legions of bloggers "projecting" what they think Romney is or how he will govern...Unlike many here, I will pull the lever for whomever remains standing, Romney, Newt, Perry.  As has been said, let's keep the focus on O' blah blah and his "known" destructive socialist policies.

291

Mallamutt:  Your daughter sounds like my middle one.  If she knew I had a gold tooth...it would be lights out. 

And since I'm a secretary for lawyers, I figure I've got it made; getting through a day without thoughts of vicious beatings is a good one for me. 

292 Thanks for sharing, please keep an update about this info. love to read it more. i like this site too much.

293 Yep! I was agreed, I'll keep in touch to your blog.

294 IÂ’ve been looking everywhere for this! Thank goodness I found it on Bing.Thx

295
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297 Newt is not my favorite but he seems to be the only one with enough balls to handle the chicago machine