1 But if the 1 trillion in cuts are real, then why the need to raise the debt limit. If these cuts were really going to happen, then couldn't we lower the debt limit by a trillion? Sorry, our demagogues have a point. If congress has the ability to borrow. It has the ability to spend. And it will spend.

2 Well Gabe nobody has seen what is in the Boner plan, but leaks to EE are saying that there are no cuts until the 10 years down the road pinky swear stuff kicks in while he gives them an immediate hike in the debt ceiling.  That is not a "plan", that is more of the same BS we have had for the past 30 years.

I would not vote for it either and I hope that the House shoots it down. It is time to burn it down.

3 Time to go to the dentist. But even that is better than watching an Otrama speech. bbl

4 Whereas Obama can be expected to sign any deal that makes it through Congress

Gabe has a lot more faith in that than I do.  El JEFe has revealed himself as an ideologue with no patience for deviations from his ignorant view.

5 "Chaffetz and Jordan cannot be relied on to vote on half a loaf". That's why they were elected, wasn't it?

6 This has been Obama's plan all along:  Spend 'til the system breaks, get tax increases, expand government, build Democrat base.

7 (Yay, unbanned!)

8 Not to say the deal is the worst in the world...getting the revote on the ceiling hike in April '12 is a brilliant idea. But we will have to spend 1 trillion dollars to get there. It seems like it is better to face reality now though. Too much debt. Too much spending. If Barry doesn't have to deal with this mess he created, a Republican president will. We need Democrats to face hard choices. Let them take the political heat for something. Let it burn.

9

I'm glad I missed The Vapid One's® little whine festival. Read both transcripts, tho'. Boehner kicked TVO in his mangina.

10 No, Vic, that's not Boehner's plan. And I haven't seen anybody claim that there are "no cuts until the 10 years down the road." Actual details on his proposal are here.

Its strongest points are no tax hikes, a two-stage debt ceiling transition which keeps this issue through the election season, immediate cuts in discretionary spending (which would add up to $1.2 trillion over 10 years), and a required vote on the Balanced Budget Amendment between October and the end of the year.

Its weakest point is the joint debt commission which would be requiered to find an additional $1.8 trillion in cuts over 10 years in exchange for the second half of the debt ceiling hike. Commissions are...not often successful, but this two is I net winner, I think. Without the $1.8 trillion, Obama won't get his second debt ceiling hike and that means we'll be having this same battle again in spring next year. To see how good that is, just glance at Obama's poll numbers for the last week.

11 ...that "summoned Congress" photoshop of Obama shows metaphysical muscle by vote?

12 And, it should be noted, that ALL these proposals lock in most of Obama's wild spending.  With us over-spending (at current rates) $15T over the next decade, but talking about only $1T -2.5T in cuts over the same period, we're leaving the bulk of the Obama Expansion of Government in place.

We can hope to win the WH in 2012, but by that time this spending will have become the norm and we'll be moving from that baseline.

13 I thought that technically, the Senate never really voted on the CCB, the D's voted to not vote on the CCB so in typical weasel fashion they avoided a clear paper trail.

14
We can hope to win the WH in 2012, but by that time this spending will have become the norm and we'll be moving from that baseline.

We have to start cutting somewhere. Just throwing our hands up in despair is not the answer. Let's start cutting. We can keep cutting once we've taken the veto pen out of Obama's hand (i.e. sent him packing).

15 Why would you be surprised by the behavior of those GOP folks? If it wasn't for the GOP's lack of skill at politics, Democrats would never get elected to anything, much less to the White House.

The cuts are not great or what many of us hoped for - they are spread out over 10 years; they do not start *after* 10 years, Vic - but at least in Boehner's plan, they are real cuts, not the fake ones like in Reid's and the Democrats latest in the Senate. So, yeah, some of the more energetic members of the GOP should shut the hell up for now, bide their time and pass this...and then work their asses off so that next time something like this gets voted on, there'll be a GOP majority in the Senate and an at least semi-competent Republican in the White House. Barack H. Obama just stomped his feet and had a tantrum in a national address to demand that everyone have their taxes raised. Hopefully the GOP will have the minimal common sense required to shut the hell up infighting long enough to make use of that while the image lasts.

Chaffetz and Jordan may well be right - in a perfect world - and I might even agree with them, but there's a reason there's an old saying about winning battles but losing wars. That saying could have been coined about the GOP, and the Democrats always make good use of it.

16 The Tea Party is the only chance for the salvation of the economy.  I like Boehner ok but he was still complicit in the compassionate conservatism horseshit that Rove and Bush practiced that led to the 2006 fuckjob that is still ass raping the country.  They spent money like a teenaged boy who just discovered porn.

What is so fucking hard about understanding the need to correct the wild spending that both sides did?  The public has gotten far too cozy with calling an increase by a smaller amount a "decline".  Attitudes like that will bankrupt the country.

17 With the coming inevitable inflation, in ten years 1.2 T$ worth of cuts will be easy.

Wait till you see the Obama Billion dollar note being prepared at Treasury.  He was right, he doesn't look like the other presidents on our money, because they were all Americans.

18 Wow, Zbrighsjdl Brzenski (however it's spelled, Mika's commie dad) states on Morning Joe that he's surprised there hasn't been more social unrest in the country yet, bet here's hoping the rioters start showing up!

19

my husband told me yesterday aft (he must have heard this on radio) that there is 90% unemployment on young black men (18--25?) in Chicago.  Why can't someone make an issue of this?

this is direct result of Democrat governance.  direct result

 

20 immediate cuts in discretionary spending (which would add up to $1.2 trillion over 10 years)
---
That's not a detailed answer to the complaint. The relavant question is what are those cuts year over year (2012 compared to 2011) today? Will the federal government spend less overall in 2012 than in 2011? Will the deficit be less in 2012 than in 2011? If those latter two questions aren't clearly answered "yes", than Boehner's plan is a failure and shouldn't be supported. 10 year projections are fantasy. We can have a balanced budget in a week by doing nothing.

21 We have to start cutting somewhere. Just throwing our hands up in despair is not the answer. Let's start cutting. We can keep cutting once we've taken the veto pen out of Obama's hand (i.e. sent him packing).

I'm not disagreeing, Gabe, I'm just pointing out that what we're talking about is not rolling back to the Dark Ages and living in mud huts.  We've only exploded our debt in the last few years-- the only difficulty in reordering our spending is in the intransigence of those in Washington to surrender their walking-around money, and to accept that government interference is the problem, not the solution.

22 I was listening in an airport but I could have sworn I heard Obama say "the Republicans are shooting kids down by the lake", might have missed bits of that.

23 Thanks for the RINO debate to start the day, Gabe!!11!!!

Anyone remember that deal in April that saved like Eleventy Zabillion dollars...how'd that work out for us? 

Anyone really believe $1.8 is going to happen over a 10 year stretch without other new spending and taxes also being introduced repeatedly over that same stretch?

Anyone tired of the "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" arguments from our leadership? 

Here's the bottom line for me, Gabe.  Either we're in the abyss or we're not.  Either we need to cut spending or we don't.  A couple hundred billion now ain't changing anything.  Titanic, deck chairs, and all.

Spending is still going up, if I understand correctly, budget years over budget years forever, including this year and next.  And that's not cutting. 

24 So, yeah, some of the more energetic members of the GOP should shut the hell up for now, bide their time and pass this...and then work their asses off so that next time something like this gets voted on, there'll be a GOP majority in the Senate and an at least semi-competent Republican in the White House.

Ah, yes,  just in case anyone's forgotten, it's "Shut up and obey the RINOs time because they said so."

25 Usually, American politics is based on incremental change which is what makes this a very difficult job for the Republicans  (even though I think most of them are as worthless as all Democrats are).  Boehner is trying to work within this set of constraints as I see it.

Amerikkkan politics is based on Alinsky-Cloward-Piven systematic disruption and involves radical alterations to major portions of the government and its relationship to the people.  Its primary purpose is to transfer as much power as possible as quickly as possible to the "correct" group of leaders.  It makes no provision for the long term, because once the correct group is in power, they will survive (quite nicely in theory at least), and the population were really all serfs anyhow so their end condition is not really a consideration.  Barky is working within this framework (nothing written down, no paper trail, but indisputable results).

26 I'm starting to wonder if Soetero believes a "default" would benefit him politically.

27

Send me your money...I can do this!

 

 

28 Mugiwara, there might be a bit of wisdom in not stopping the SSI checks in the hottest part of the summer.

29 I'm starting to wonder if Soetero believes a "default" would benefit him politically.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 26, 2011 07:57 AM (FkKjr)

You're just starting to wonder?  I thought it was obvious.  The worse the crisis, the more we must depend upon our Fear Less Leader and his teleprompter!

30 I hate polls and don't trust them. They seem skewed tward the Dems. However, I keep seeing polls that say that 60%+ don't want the debt ceiling raised at all. Raising the debt ceiling seems like taking another morgage out on a house you can't afford. Yes, you can live in it for another year but then you are right back where you stated from. Common sense tells me if we don't raise the debt ceiling 1.8 trillion in cuts will be required today. The arguements should be about what to cut not when to cut. At this moment in time I think the American people are ready for the strong medicine.

31 Ah, yes,  just in case anyone's forgotten, it's "Shut up and obey the RINOs time because they said so."

If we take the House and WH, they will say we need the Senate.

If we take the House, WH, and Senate, they will say we need a filibuster proof majority.

If we take the House, WH, and Senate with a filibuster proof majority, they will say cutting spending will risk losing those things.

32 Cheffetz and Jordan are doing their job, boner need vocal opposition from the Right

33

"Last night the President gave a deeply disingenuous speech..."

Flowery.  He lied his Marxist ass off.

34 31 I hate polls and don't trust them. They seem skewed tward the Dems. However, I keep seeing polls that say that 60%+ don't want the debt ceiling raised at all.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at July 26, 2011 07:59 AM (ZDUD4)

And what's really amazing is watching the MSM point to these polls as proof that the "country is being held hostage by Tea Party extremists!" It's stunning to watch them call a clear majority a fringe extreme.

35 34, Your horn should be cut off, ground up, and sold to the chinese to sprinkle on their rice. Oh wait, they already own you don't they.

36 At this moment in time I think the American people are ready for the strong medicine.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at July 26, 2011 07:59 AM (ZDUD4)

One would have to be prepared for an Olympian bloodbath, but it seems to me that a fair solution is to say that effectively immediately all government programs/agencies/grants/whatever are defunded by x%.  A value of x in the range of 3 to 5 seems like it should be enough to start the process of winding down spending, yet not kill Grannie.

Wash lather rinse repeat!

37 The Boehner plan is poison.

38 If we take the House, WH, and Senate with a filibuster proof majority, they will say cutting spending will risk losing those things.

And "cutting" always seems to mean "reducing the increase in government spending from a point next year which significantly exceeds GDP growth to a slightly lesser point which still exceeds GDP growth and OMG why is the deficit even bigger?"

39 A value of x in the range of 3 to 5 seems like it should be enough to start the process of winding down spending, yet not kill Grannie.

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 26, 2011 08:05 AM (yrGif)

But how will we ever get the budget under control if we're not able to off Granny when she becomes a burden?!?

40 I'm starting to believe Obama knows he won't be re-elected and destruction is on his mind.

41 "Ah, yes,  just in case anyone's forgotten, it's "Shut up and obey the RINOs time because they said so."

No, Methos, it's time for them to shut up because it's the intelligent thing to do right now and, in the current political situation (controlling only one branch of the federal government),  because it's the best thing currently available for the nation. Instead of "standing on principle" and letting Obama and the Dems continue taking the country to hell on a fast track in exchange for these guys getting a few more appearances booked on cable news channels.

42 As for Boehner's plan, cutting 120 billion in exchange for raising the debt ceiling by a trillion dollars is a shitty deal which accomplishes nothing, except the following:

-Democrats will talk about the horrible deep cuts the GOP inflicted on America.

-Since the cut is so small, they won't do anything, and Democrats will be able to say in a few years that we 'tried' deep spending cuts and it didn't fix the problem.

-If you believe we are going to be cutting 120 billion from the budget for ten years, I'll tell you another.  The first time the Dems win back Congress that'll be off the table.

-All the reforms Boehner is pushing for a meaningless.  If the debt ceiling doesn't stop Congress from increasing spending because they can just raise it, nothing ever will.

43

Burn baby burn,

Debit Inferno

Burn baby burn,

Burn that mama down!

44 Methos, when do we get to tell the RINO to STFU and toe the line

45 Its strongest points are... which would add up to $1.2 trillion over 10 years... 

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at July 26, 2011 07:40 AM (XVaFd)

This is not a strong point.  Any politician selling big savings over numbers of years, especially when they span several election cycles, is full of shit.  THIS. GETS. US. NOWHERE.

Sorry Lucy, I'm not kicking the ball this time.

46

But how will we ever get the budget under control if we're not able to off Granny when she becomes a burden?!?

Posted by: Obamacare supporter, er, I mean Tea Party extremist at July 26, 2011 08:08 AM (KI/Ch)

"If you like your red pill, you can take a blue pill under my healthcare mandate!"

47 Raising the debt ceiling seems like taking another morgage out on a house you can't afford. Yes, you can live in it for another year but then you are right back where you stated from.

Common sense tells me if we don't raise the debt ceiling 1.8 trillion in cuts will be required today. The arguements should be about what to cut not when to cut. At this moment in time I think the American people are ready for the strong medicine. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet
............
We already raised it.. We passed a budget that spent more than we are taking in.. this year.  I sure didn't like the deal we made with Reid and Obama back in April, but we passed a budget for the rest of the year and now the bills are coming due.  We have to pay for it and that means borrowing.. and that means raising the debt ceiling.

This stupid debt ceiling debate has taken on a life of its own and has obscured, it seems, the realities of Washington.  The debt ceiling is not the budget.  Raise the damn debt ceiling and have this fight on the budget.. the current one runs out in a few months.  and another one will be due right in the middle of elections next year.  We are beginning to look like incompetent fools.. almost as bad as JEF and Reid.

48

And the AP is letting us know that it's all whiteys fault.

The median wealth of white U.S. households in 2009 was $113,149, compared with $6,325 for Hispanics and $5,677 for blacks, according to the analysis released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center. Those ratios, roughly 20 to 1 for blacks and 18 to 1 for Hispanics, far exceed the low mark of 7 to 1 for both groups reached in 1995, when the nation's economic expansion lifted many low-income groups to the middle class

49 Erick Erickson began his latest piece on this clusterfuck thusly ... "Senator Helms once said, 'Compromise, hell! That’s what has happened to us all down the line — and that’s the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?'” Exactly. Decades of compromise and going along to get along is what got us to this point. I'm glad we finally have some guys on our side who are willing to take a stand.

50 Don't we need to cut 4T this year!, not 1T over 10years - what am I missing

51 I'm starting to believe Obama knows he won't be re-elected and destruction is on his mind.

Posted by: Jean at July 26, 2011 08:08 AM (O+gm/)

You would think except El JEFe is still acting like the same clueless monumental dumbfuck who knows nothing about the real world that he always has been.  When the likelihood of him being a one-termer finally enters his otherwise empty skull, the meltdown will be far more brutal than what we've seen.

52 Don't we need to cut 4T this year!, not 1T over 10years - what am I missing

Shut up!

53 Hill, Boots, Bayonets...some assembly required. 

IMO, Gabe, you've just missed the point that spending is still going up year/year indefinitely.  That's not cutting by any logical measurement.

54 I really hate this 10-12 year budget plan crapola.  I don't believe that Congress is competent enough to have a clue as to what they will do next year, let alone actually stand by any agreement they float that specifies actions ten years hence.  Any tax plan should cover no more than the next four years (one presidential cycle) even in the off years.  Even a math challenged Zero voter can track what happened over that length of time.

I thought that Stalin only pushed 5 year plans, so where did Barry's 12 years come from!

55 $1.2 trillion in cuts over 10 years? So less than we went into debt this year alone? In other words we'll still be going deeper in debt to the tune of over 1 trillion every year. Maybe this is the best deal we can get but's it's a sure sign we're boned anyway. If all this Sturm und Drang is over barely making any 'real cuts' then there is no way in hell we're going to do the cutting we need to do in order to survive. This is my frustration. The left have pushed so close to the edge of the cliff and framed this debate so successfully that we're fighting tooth and nail over stuff that won't even make a real difference.

56 A value of x in the range of 3 to 5 seems like it should be enough to start the process of winding down spending, yet not kill Grannie.

It would seem that way, but it's not really. A 5% reduction across the board of $4T in spending is $200B per year (assuming incorrectly that the baseline is holding year over year spending constant). A 1.5% hike in our interest rates after a credit downgrade, or just because investors are sick of feeding their money through the federal paper shredder, is $210B the first year. It's $235B the next year because by that time you've increased the debt another trillion and a half (at least) and you have to pay interest on that, too.

57 After the next election, the Democrats will still have the filibuster in the Senate.  Cut here, cut now.  500B increase in the debt ceiling, tops.

58

TARP:  WE MUST PASS IT TO AVOID CATASTROPHE.

CRAPULUS:  WE MUST PASS IT TO AVOID CATASTROPHE.

2011 "BUDGET":  WE MUST PASS IT TO AVOID CATASTROPHE:

THE MALOR PLAN:  WE MUST ACCEPT HALF A LOAF OF SHIT TO AVOID CATASTROPHE.

 

Enough.  This.  Is.  The.  Final.  Hill.

59 Reading thru this thread does make me think that Conservatives rather enjoy being the minority. I guess that's easier. Sniping from the sidelines and back benches, but no real responsibility for much of anything. All the while the nation goes to hell in a handbasket. I'm not remotely close to being a RINO on the issues, but this purity kick is just plain out dumbassery that the nation can't afford right now. We've got a damn Marxist president who, near as I can tell, hates the country he got elected president of, and a bunch of willing stooge Democrats in the Senate who don't give a crap if he's a Marxist or not as long as they can keep buying re-election. One would think those things would trump ideological purity tests, at least for the moment, but apparently not.

60 37 34, Do you have any Human Horn? Not for me, Uhhh for a friend.

61 If we start aggressively cutting our debt, while Europe burns - we might be able to roll our short treasuries for negative intrrest. Hows that for some Republican unicorn skittles?

62 Methos, when do we get to tell the RINO to STFU and toe the line Posted by: Jean at July 26, 2011 08:11 AM

Only when it's too late, and maybe not even then.

The only thing that can save us at this point is for Congress to do something its members, awash in perks and full of themselves for being able to spread money around, will never do: pass legislation that instantly eliminates all wasteful, ineffective gubmint agencies (there are dozens), put some kind of "watchdog" in place to stop all of Osama Obama's little "gifts" to unions, ACORN and other racist organizations, reduce the budgets of the president and Congress (by at least 30%, if not more), and severely limit the ways in which Congress can spend (as in, for Constitutionally mandated purposes only).

That would be a start.

Do those things, then overhaul the tax code to make it legitimately fair to all Americans, and not a redistribution-of-wealth system.

The result: magic. A balanced budget and major debt reduction.

Of course this kind of realistic, America-first behavior would cause the Traitor-in-Chief's head to 'splode (a feature, not a bug). Sadly, it might have the same effect on Boner and Bitch McConnell....

63 All the while the nation goes to hell in a handbasket. I'm not remotely close to being a RINO on the issues, but this purity kick is just plain out dumbassery that the nation can't afford right now.

Political reality bends to actual reality.  The nation cannot afford more spending.  Boehner's retarded plan isn't good enough.  It's putting a silk hat on business as usual and pretending it's wonderful.

64 I offered to cut the budget bajillonty dollars starting in 2152, but these Republican extremists won't budge on their kill grandma platform. The American people voted for divided government in November not because they wanted to stop my plans, but because they wanted to give Republicans a chance to accept my generous offers. You'd think they'd be thanking me...

65 davidinvirgini<---look a variation of concern troll.

66 Posted by: davidinvirginia at July 26, 2011 08:19 AM (N5zTl)
I understand your point, but to use a Captain of the Titanic analogy, if we only make a minor course correction, don't we still hit the iceberg? 
If this is not the time for full right rudder, when will be the time?

67 One would think those things would trump ideological purity tests, at least for the moment, but apparently not.
Posted by: davidinvirginia
.............
apparently not..

68 Oh, for the dark days of George Bush's $248B 2006 deficit.

President Jugears McStumblefuck deficit spends that in two months.

Can we really not roll things back to that point?

69 Can we really not roll things back to that point?

Posted by: nickless at July 26, 2011 08:25 AM (MMC8r)

52% say no.

70

If this is not the time for full right rudder, when will be the time?

This. 

 

I have been hearing the same tap dancing stupidity about the deficit and debt for decades now.  Enough. 

71 If this is not the time for full right rudder, when will be the time?
Posted by: Hrothgar
.......
When we have the White House and Senate back.. one year away...  We have one-third of the power right now.   We cannot pass anything without the Senate and Obama... period.  and they can't pass anything without our House.  So, ok.. stalemate..  shut it all down until elections?

72

One would think those things would trump ideological purity tests, at least for the moment, but apparently not.
Posted by: davidinvirginia
.............
apparently not..

One would think you geniuses would be capable of grasping fifth grade math.

Apparently not.

73 Turned on FNC a little after 7AM EDT just to get a sense of how last night's speeches were being portrayed on the closest thing (sadly) to a real news channel that there is.

Sitting there with a shot of the Capitol Building between them were a former Miss America contestant (with that look in her eyes that she thinks is her serious face), and FNC "analyst" Juan "the most notable thing I've ever done was get shitcanned by NPR" Williams.
This is how Ailes chooses to cover important stories these days.

I threw up a little in my mouth. Another timely reminder of why I can barely stomach that network anymore.

74 What struck me about Obama's speech, other that the blatant lies of course, was the, even by Barry's standards, monumental level of condescension.  If I were a dem, I would be feeling pretty crappy about myself for being addressed so obviously as if I didn't have a single brain cell in my cranium.

75 70 Oh, for the dark days of George Bush's $248B 2006 deficit.

President Jugears McStumblefuck deficit spends that in two months.

Can we really not roll things back to that point?

Posted by: nickless at July 26, 2011 08:25 AM (MMC8r)

But unemployment was around a mere 5% way back in those dark days before we had a structural unemployment to rival the average European welfare state. You're not saying you want to take away funemployment too, are you?

76 No, Methos, it's time for them to shut up because it's the intelligent thing to do right now and, in the current political situation (controlling only one branch of the federal government),  because it's the best thing currently available for the nation.

Oh I see, principled Americans should shut up and obey the RINOs because they assert it's the "intelligent" thing to do. Maybe you're new here and haven't read all the comments, but many of us are of the opinion that doing nothing (maybe enough fluff so that Bammy gets more of the blame) and forcing a balanced budget now is the best thing for the country. Economically, Congress has done a great deal of long term harm to us through the TARP and the stimulus and all the other manipulations to prevent the market correction that should have happened back in 2007. Until that correction fully occurs, there can never be a recovery.

That process will be unpleasant. At this point balancing the federal budget means an immediate 10% drop in GDP. But if we had done it in 2007-8 )not that it was being discussed) when the deficit was a third of it's current size, it would have resulted in a 3% drop. Any time during the GOP Congress years it would have been basically insignificant. But we don't get to go fix it then. We have to choose to fix it now or in the future when it will be even more painful.

And no, that 10% is a floor, not a ceiling. When the natural follow on effects, like the bankruptcy of Goldman Sachs, occur, the drop will be even more for a while. But it is necessary and will happen at a time not of our choosing if we keep kicking the can like Boehner's plan does.

77 As the only adult in the room, I'll redefine the language to mean anything I say.

78 This stupid debt ceiling debate has taken on a life of its own and has obscured, it seems, the realities of Washington. The debt ceiling is not the budget. Raise the damn debt ceiling and have this fight on the budget.. I respectfully disagree. Example: Every State in the union has a Dept. of Education. The Federal one has 4000 employees and costs 48 billion a year to run. Shut it down. Liquidate everything. This would remove short term costs and long term debt. If you have been to Washington lately, you can't miss Pelosi's pet project United States Institute of Peace 2301 Constitution Avenue, NW. Look up this marble column monstrosity full of muzztards and Communists. Billions and Billions spent on an ego. It's all in the open for everyone to see, It's all ready to be shut down by a Gov.. That understands we can't afford it. How much land has the Gov. Taken? Its time to sell it to Miners, oil drillers and anyone else that can make it useful. The Feds pocket the purchase price and the states get some property tax revenue to help pay for whatever. I do not believe that raising the debt ceiling is absolute. I believe progressive rinos are good at selling a line of shit.

79 David , please move to Maryland, thank you.

80 As the only adult in the room, I'll redefine the language to mean anything I say.

Posted by: Barky the Kindergarten Cop at July 26, 2011 08:31 AM (/ZZCn)

Go get me some coffee.  Copy cat.

81 And yet another cob-logger chimes in with the "you're just a bunch of angry, ignorant, exxxtreme sister-fucking rednecks who just don't understand how things are done in D.C." Really. And you, ace, and Drew all suck at math. Under this plan we still increase both our annual deficits and our total debt burden year-over-year. This isn't a fix, it's a disaster. You guys are so enamored of the political maneuvering because you see yourselves as some kind of insiders. Fucking groupies is more apt.

82 I kept hearing Barry say the word compromise a whole lot last night which I assume means the word polls well. But seeing as how the Republicans stood pretty firmly against all of his ambitions in his first two years, then the Donks got tossed out in historic fashion, my guess is that a compromise by Republicans is not the kind of compromise the public is looking for...

83

How to fix our debt problem, in one easy step:

 

1) Don't raise the debt ceiling. 

 

That was easy!

 

BTW, there is still more news to be had in the previous thread.  Check it out now.

84 Oh I see, principled Americans should shut up and obey the RINOs because they assert it's the "intelligent" thing to do.

Yes.  Now marvel as we play chess in a burning building.  Between you and me, I think if we sacrifice this pawn we'll get better position.

85 Posted by: mugiwara at July 26, 2011 08:35 AM (KI/Ch)
Compromise=STFU and vote the way I tell you to vote!

86 So, this is the second mocking reference I've seen from Gabe re Chaffetz, the other on Twitter.  My congressman must've done something really egregious to warrant this attention, but no link in this article. 

Here's the Strib's report (the SL Trib is a liberal rag, btw): 

House Speaker John Boehner promised a vote on his latest proposal to raise the debt limit by Wednesday, but its chances of passage remain slim because Republicans like Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah say their leader aimed far too low.

UtahÂ’s other two House members, Jim Matheson, a Democrat, and Rob Bishop, a Republican, say they are still considering the dueling proposals offered by Boehner in the House and Harry Reid in the Senate, but they are also unimpressed with what they have seen so far.

“I am disappointed. I think this is just a short-term kick the can down the road approach,” said Matheson.

...

Chaffetz dismissed both approaches, saying that neither goes far enough to solve the debt problem. He predicted that BoehnerÂ’s plan will fail on Wednesday unless Democrats unexpectedly support it.

“I don’t believe they can get there with just Republicans,” he said.

...Utah’s two senators — Orrin Hatch and Mike Lee — have previously joined Chaffetz in signing a pledge to vote against any increase in the debt limit until Congress passes a balanced budget amendment. They would, therefore, oppose both of the options now on the table.

---

So none of Utah's Reps or Senators have put their support to Boehner's plan and, based on what they have promised earlier, both of the Senators would vote against any plan without a BBA vote. 

Why is Jason Chaffetz the recipient of so much attention? 

87 So, ok.. stalemate..  shut it all down until elections?

Yes.

88 You actually agreed with me.  The department of Education has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.  It is a budget item.

All of the waste in Washington happens on the budget.  We are not fighting over a budget at the moment.. we are talking debt ceiling and holding that as hostage for bullshit promised future cuts.

We should have had this fight in April when we agreed to the bullshit budget that funded that shit.  And we should be having this fight on next year's budget.

89 Under this plan we still increase both our annual deficits and our total debt burden year-over-year. This isn't a fix, it's a disaster.

Yeah, anyone else noticed how supporters of the-plan-of-the-day won't actually address that issue?

Everyone should be required to pass a semester of calculus before they can vote. Folks need to understand the difference between a function and its derivatives.

90 Reading thru this thread does make me think that Conservatives rather enjoy being the minority. I guess that's easier. Sniping from the sidelines and back benches, but no real responsibility for much of anything.

Yup. Look how many folks here are proposing to do nothing. No plan, no deal, no nothing. And they insanely think that's the answer. Go down with the sinking ship, instead of beating Obama over the head with a deal that will take him out of office.

And for the record, Circa, I was opposed to TARP. The only coblogger who spoke up and opposed it, actually. And it should go without saying that I opposed the Spendulus.

Forgive me. I want to take the White House and the Senate back. What I don't want is for Republicans to kid themselves into thinking a default would be a good thing and then kick themselves for losing the House in 2012 and failing to take the White House.

Caterwauling about slashing EVERYTHING isn't a plan. It's not a solution because, in case you missed it, Obama is still the president. He's still perched right there with a veto pen. So you're just going to have to suck it up and maybe do something to get him out of office. . . . Or you could just keep doing what you're doing: "WAAAAAAAAAAH! The RINOs are mean to meeeeeeeeeee."

91

Go get me some coffee.  Copy cat.

Posted by: BJ Clinton at July 26, 2011 08:34 AM (N2yhW)

At least Bubba was competent.

92 Wait, Chaffetz has garnered attention on another issue, hasn't he? 

The Obama administration's announcement Wednesday that it would no longer oppose legal challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act has left conservative senators, congressmen and traditional marriage advocates reeling
...

"With all of the problems facing our country right now, I'm surprised that he woke up this morning and decided that he wanted to pick this battle," Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, said of Obama. "This is a fight worth fighting and I'm willing to fight it everyday with him if he wants."

93 I threw up a little in my mouth. Another timely reminder of why I can barely stomach that network anymore.

Posted by: ontherocks at July 26, 2011 08:28 AM (HBqDo)

This is why I only hang out here...and midget pron sites.

Drinking...lots- helps as well.

 

94 I call BS on Chaffetz and Jordan.  They stomp their feet to impress the voters but if no other plan(CCB is out until we get control of the Senate) comes along they will vote for this.  Unless of course enough Dems see the writing on the wall and Chaffetz's and Jordan's votes aren't needed, which gives them an out.  And reading comments like Vic's I realize people don't even know what's in the plan so maybe these two blowhard Congresscritters don't either...wouldn't surprise me in the least.

95 Between you and me, I think if we sacrifice this pawn tall piece with a crown we'll get better position.

Posted by: Your RINO betters at July 26, 2011 08:37 AM (FkKjr)

FIFY

96 The hideous first lady is in Utah today, btw, in Park City doing a fundraiser.  Funny how Bambi's supporters have money left over to hang out there after they make all of those voluntary additional "tax" contributions to bring down the deficit. 

97 Will it be easier to cut from a 15.6 trillion dollar baseline, no it won't, the commission is already a dodge, we had one, it was called Bowles/Simpson
he ignored it, he ignored the CBO numbers when it came to Obamacare,
this is just kicking the can down the road, but if you like 'that crop report, you can keep that crop report'

98 Deanna is really concerned. 

99 The House Repulicans gave them a plan. They done their job. They should go on vacation, get in some golf.

100 I think that if we just root the RINOs on so that they can work on a deal with the communist party we'll be gifted with a variation of a hybrid RHINOcorn and everything will be just fine in Central Planning City.

Now is not the time for discouraging words, they're smarter than us and they're here to help.

101 At least Bubba was competent.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 26, 2011 08:42 AM (B+qrE)

I weep bitter tears realizing I miss BJ.

102 No, that hillbilly gave us much of this carp, through the CRA revisions, through Cisneros and Cuomo at HUD, cooking the books with Franklin Raines, it just took longer for the logic bomb to manifest.

103

He's still perched right there with a veto pen.

Make.  Him.  Use.  It.

I fail to see the advantage to the country or even, and this is the gigantic gaping hole in your "moderation" argument, the political edge in throwing this incompetent boob a lifeline of any kind.

There is a plan, Gabe.  Paul Ryan's budget should be the starting point--not dismissed out of hand because the White House screams "extreme" and the usual suspects come running to the call.  Yes, Newt, you tool--I'm looking at you.

This process has the bulk of fiscal inertia behind it.  It has to be stopped now or there will be no stopping it later.

104 You actually agreed with me. The department of Education has nothing to do with the debt ceiling. It is a budget item. OK, I'll bite. I guess I'm just stupid then. How are expenditures for shit we don't need disconnected from barrowing money to pay for shit we don't need.

105 Deanna is really concerned.

Posted by: Y-not at July 26, 2011 08:45 AM

No, I'm cynical.  I just know Congresscritters are all the same, full of crap, love to grandstand, and these two are no different.  I doubt they believe one wrord of what they're saying.

106 What I don't want is for Republicans to kid themselves into thinking a default would be a good thing

Your seriously don't understand the situation, do you, Gabe? There is no real default under any circumstances today unless Obama chooses it in which case it's his responsibility. There is recognition of the depression we've been in for three years which will be unpleasant, but it is the least bad of all options that still remain to us. If not now, when do you plan on balancing the budget? When doing so reduces GDP by 15%? 25%? 40%? When are we deep enough into the abyss to acknowledge it?

107

Only CharlieMcChristHuntsmanBoner III, Jr. can help us now.

 

 

108 If anyone is looking for purity in politics, you're in the wrong place.  Morality?  Ethics?  pfffft.

This is about using a crackhead's need for crack to get what you want from the crackhead's sponsorship.  Make these motherf*ckers come crawling on their bloody, scabby knees every time they need a fix.
You want a dimebag?  Here's a nickelbag. 
You want credit?  Try not to forget what it's like walking on two good legs.

Dat's the Chicago way, baby!

109 Since this post is devoid of, you know, links to facts, here's something from Red State re Boehner's plan:

Some highlights:

Outlay reduction for FY 12 – $25 billion cut in discretionary spending.Debt limit increase right away – $1 trillionDoes not touch Obamacare funding, Medicare or Social SecurityIncludes the McConnell automatic increase without a vote – they tried to sell us on “your boss isn’t actually voting for a debt limit increase”Joint Select Cmte Created – 12 Members, if Commission recs pass on entitlement reform, then Pres gets another debt limit increaseBudget Authority in FY 12 is $ 7 billion less than FY 11 in discretionary spending.---

I'd also like to see a link to Jason Chaffetz's "no as no can be" quote.  I can't find it. 

110 Yup. Look how many folks here are proposing to do nothing. No plan, no deal, no nothing. And they insanely think that's the answer. Go down with the sinking ship, instead of beating Obama over the head with a deal that will take him out of office.

The insanity is focusing 100% on the political and not at all at what will fix the problem.

Boehner's starting numbers for cuts in this negotiation were too low, and his focus on 'over ten year period' and 'reform' are retarded gimmicks meant to shut us up.  His deal sucks.  And the only response from the 'insiders' is for us to shut up, because >they< believe the political dividends from this will be great.  By the way, these people are frequently wrong.

111 Ynot, did you enjoy your first Pioneer Day

112 Arg, lost formatting.  Try again:

Some highlights:

Outlay reduction for FY 12 – $25 billion cut in discretionary spending.
Debt limit increase right away – $1 trillion
Does not touch Obamacare funding, Medicare or Social Security
Includes the McConnell automatic increase without a vote – they tried to sell us on “your boss isn’t actually voting for a debt limit increase”
Joint Select Cmte Created – 12 Members, if Commission recs pass on entitlement reform, then Pres gets another debt limit increase
Budget Authority in FY 12 is $ 7 billion less than FY 11 in discretionary spending.

113 G-d pixy. 

114 No, I'm cynical.  I just know Congresscritters are all the same, full of crap, love to grandstand, and these two are no different.  I doubt they believe one wrord of what they're saying

Well, you completely missed the point of Gabe's post then, since he's saying Chaffetz is a member of the purity police.

In my experience with Chaffetz thus far, he is sincere.  He's also going to be primarying Orrin this time around and I hope we can agree that Hatch is the king of pontificating. 

115 I really like wailing and moaning, but eventually I come to grips with the act that the Constitution split responsibility in such a way as to make most things hard to do, especially when it comes to screwing the people.  Years of deconstruction have put us in a bad place financially, but enough of the Constitutional mechanism remains in  place to make it hard to undo obviously bad stuff.
I don't trust any establishment member of Congress or the president to anything good for me as a citizen, but like it or not, they form the elements of the government that I live under (for now at least).
I also believe that major changes should be brought about incrementally, and the presence of the Tea Party Freshmen has managed to alter the discussion in Washington ever so slightly.  So I believe that we have gotten about all we can get from our mostly corrupt political institution with the Boehner plan.  To go further now is admirable in principle, but not in practice. 
Does this solve the problem--no.  Does it slightly delay the timing of the oncoming DOOM--probably.
Do we need to primary the RINOs and work harder to restore Constitutional principles--you betcha!  But for now, I think we have reached to point of diminishing returns in this argument.

116 Class warfare. Personalize it. Ever hear somebody complain about/to his/her spouse with "I'd like to stop working and retire someday" over a household finances spending issue? I've heard this many times from people I know in isolation from one another, so I think that there is a common source. I have been working and paying taxes for thirty years. In that time, I have not only paid my own way, but I have been robbed at the point of the federal government's gun to pay for Medicaid, SSDI, WIC/Foodstamps, AFDC/TANF, EITC, HUD Section 8, and so on. That's the handouts bullshit that the left/enemy use to farm votes of the no-self-respect pieces of shit willing to cast themselves as needy to avoid productive work. My rights to my earnings and my own property have been further eroded by the thick layer of faux middle-class, rent-seeking wastes of oxygen in the bureaucracies, the unions, and the vast array of makework positions created by the regulatory monster. They're too damned heavy, and they are *NOT* my brothers. As President GW Bush was taught by his mistaken assessment of Putin, no man can see into the heart of another. There may be genuinely needy people who cannot survive without the benefits of these welfare programs and regulatory schemes, but nobody can ever *know* whether another person cannot work or will not work. Nobody can ever know whether another person was truly harmed by a regulatory gap or was just looking to score a tort jackpot at the working man's expense. Default. Let the cities fucking burn if the eagle fails to shit on the first of the month. Let the 52 prove once and for all that the *only* thing American about them is their physical location. As bad as these counsequences sound, they are fairly attractive next to the alternative: Another thirty fucking years in the endless dark tunnel of carrying deadweight ingrates while these shitbags who enslave me with their votes keep digging the hole deeper.

117 Methos, Don't be trying to cloud the issue with math. This is about how fun it is to play fucking tiddlywinks with the other high foreheads in the blogosphere. And that's the nature of the political groupie problem: give us power NOW, and we'll grow some principles LATER. Yeah, fuck off with that. You try to explain how they can't keep the lights on without paying the bills, and they dismiss you as a political naif. That's why I prefer the dick jokes. They see themselves as the only ones here with the capacity for serious thought.

118 That's okay Y-not, we get the point. Boehner's fluff is more about relieving the pressure on Congress than addressing any actual problem.

That at least looks like a legitimate cut in discretionary spending, though it's inconsequential. I'd still like to see what the budget total looks like.

119

He's still perched right there with a veto pen.

Make.  Him.  Use.  It.

Posted by: Circa

You just don't get it..  We control the House.. that's it..

Cut cap and balance didn't even make it to a vote in the Senate.  As long as that is the case, Obama is shielded from using the veto pen.  We can't force anything.. we can't pass anything on our own.  At best, all we can do is obstruct the other side, and they us.

120 113 Ynot, did you enjoy your first Pioneer Day

Well, it is an unusual holiday.  There's a lot of lead up to it, but it didn't really feel like a holiday yesterday, although we did have the day off.  I gather there's a lot of stuff up at Salt Lake at the historic sites.

There were more fireworks, though, so it was LOUD.  This the first year of the new fireworks law - allowing aerial fireworks - and our neighborhood has been like Beirut this month.  In theory the window for shooting them off closes today.  I hope so - the collie does not like the noise.  She was all worked up yesterday. 

121 Deanna, then dont raise the ceiling - either cut or get cut. 1. Pass the Ryan budget, no debt ceiling increase w/o a budget; 2. Prioritize appropriations, again this passes before a debt ceiling vote reaches the floor; 3. Suspend Obamacare implementation - demand the White House do this as a sign of good faith; 4. As guidance, any debt ceiling raise must be matched by cuts. The dont like it, they can reconsider CCB. The created this crisis, make them eat it.

122 You actually agreed with me. The department of Education has nothing to do with the debt ceiling. It is a budget item.

OK, I'll bite. I guess I'm just stupid then. How are expenditures for shit we don't need disconnected from barrowing money to pay for shit we don't need. Posted by: Oldsailor's poet
...........
Because we wouldn't have to borrow for that shit if we hadn't passed a budget approving it.. which we already did.

Passing the budget and knowing we were passing a deficit budget, was de facto approval for borrowing the money to pay for it.

123 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 26, 2011 09:02 AM (Wm4Mf) We need to force that CC&B vote in the senate. It was "tabled" No vote was taken. No deals until we get that vote. The American people want it, that's a fact. Those Dems that vote against it will pay with their jobs in 2012. If it passes and Obama vetos it, he will have to explain why.

124 At best, all we can do is obstruct the other side, and they us.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 26, 2011 09:02 AM (Wm4Mf)

But maybe along the way, we can keep pointing out that there is NOTHING in f*king writing from the Dems.  There are NO comments or amendments to House passed legislation from the Senate.  There is nothing but unscoreable platitudes and BS from the teleprompter in chief.  The MBM will attribute the worst to the Repubs no matter what, but at some point a few more people will wake up and say "WTF, now I know what the Zero really means by that!"

125 @120 That's okay Y-not, we get the point. Boehner's fluff is more about relieving the pressure on Congress than addressing any actual problem.

---

Sounds like it.

You know, I am not for attacking Boehner for no good reason.  I certainly don't want to weaken our side (and, for good or ill, he's our "leader") unnecessarily.  And I'm usually a pragmatist.  But this post irritates the shit out of me. 

Chaffetz is probably somewhat further to the right than I am (as is Lee), but I really don't see what he's done to warrant this snotty post from Gabe, particularly without there being any links to the quote so we can get context on it.  The only thing I can conclude is that Chaffetz, who let's face it is hardly the most influential or powerful Congressman out there (so his position hardly matters on one hand), has warranted this negative attention because he is a threat to ultra-squish Hatch and has taken up the DOMA fight. 

The only one I really trust on this budget stuff is Paul Ryan. 

126 ChiTown, wrong we can drive this train, if we want to. I think the pubs are leary of any big economic meddling, because the global economy is about to tank and they want no part of that. So, they want a bandaid, not a transplnt.

127 I don't trust this supposed rift between Obama and Senate Dems.
Obama needs a way to spread the blame for the bad economy. If he "reluctantly" accepts the Republican plan he can later say see I told you so, especially if the US credit rating is downgraded which may already be inevitable at this point.

128 129 I don't trust this supposed rift between Obama and Senate Dems.

Yeah, that is pure theater, imho. 

129 Well, you completely missed the point of Gabe's post then, since he's saying Chaffetz is a member of the purity police.

In my experience with Chaffetz thus far, he is sincere. He's also going to be primarying Orrin this time around and I hope we can agree that Hatch is the king of pontificating.

Posted by: Y-not at July 26, 2011 08:58 AM

Oh I got the point, but purity wannabes can be just as bad as any other politician.  Give him time and then we'll see...I've been burned too many times to completely trust anyone who runs for office.  And yeah I would prefer him over Hatch.   I just want some realism in their speechifying.  Until they come up with something they are just criticizing for its own sake.  Have you heard Chaffetz's ideas on this matter other than these kinds of comments?   

130 Zbrighsjdl Brzenski (however it's spelled, Mika's commie dad) states on Morning Joe that he's surprised there hasn't been more social unrest in the country yet, bet here's hoping the rioters start showing up!

Posted by: mugiwara at July 26, 2011 07:47 AM (KI/Ch)

Laura Ingraham, who has gotten the memo from Duke & Duke and is telling the Tea Party to turn in their weapons to their Repuke betters, is playing clips of this ignorant cocksucker and it sounds like something out of a parody movie poorly done.

131 The only one I really trust on this budget stuff is Paul Ryan.

Posted by: Y-not at July 26, 2011 09:10 AM

I agree on that.  I know there is a copy of this new Boehner plan out there because I saw it posted yesterday but I can't find it.  I don't mean these snippets from articles we have been getting, but an actual copy.  I don't trust the LSM to not edit...sort of a given there.  LOL

132 Have you heard Chaffetz's ideas on this matter other than these kinds of comments?

Have you heard any but a handful of Congressmen's ideas? 

Would you expect a junior member of the budget committee to put forth his own plan unilaterally?  I wouldn't.  Obviously his input is happening in committee. 

And, in terms of "these kinds of comments," the article I linked didn't portray Chaffetz's comments as any more out of line or strident than Utah's other congressmen/senators.  

I cannot find the primary source for the "no way" 'quote' that has Gabe so worked up, so I don't know if he said it or why he said it (although it doesn't seem bad to me). 

133 I'm still trying to figure out what as "no as no can be" fails to pull up anything other than ace of spades in Google. 

If anyone has the link to Chaffetz's "quoted" remarks, please post it. 

134 Would you expect a junior member of the budget committee to put forth his own plan unilaterally? I wouldn't. Obviously his input is happening in committee.

And, in terms of "these kinds of comments," the article I linked didn't portray Chaffetz's comments as any more out of line or strident than Utah's other congressmen/senators.

I cannot find the primary source for the "no way" 'quote' that has Gabe so worked up, so I don't know if he said it or why he said it (although it doesn't seem bad to me).

Posted by: Y-not at July 26, 2011 09:19 AM

Actually he should have a plan to put forth if he is going to criticize.  But maybe he has and like so much we never hear it never made it to prime time.  I'll give him and others, including Boehner, the benefit of the doubt...for now.   Meanwhile I have to go to work, have a good one. 

135 No, Vic, that's not Boehner's plan. And I haven't seen anybody claim that there are "no cuts until the 10 years down the road." Actual details on his proposal are here.

Well Gabe did you read that link:

What we don't yet know is what that first tranche of cuts and caps actually looks like.  Are they real cuts, or the sort of smoke-and-mirrors nonsense that infused the last "grand" compromise with a bitter aftertaste?  In policy terms, the forced vote on a BBA is a waste of time because a remotely acceptable BBA (read: one with robust mechanical limitations on tax hikes) simply will not pass this Congress with 2/3 majorities.  Politically, conservatives could use the period between now and the promised vote to drum up support for the already-popular measure, then hammer Democrats for voting "no."

The word leaking out is no real cuts this year and the rest are all "pinky swear" cuts down the road.

It sounds like more "go along to get along BS" to position Republicans for elections by appealing to so-called "moderates".

I'll repeat what I said yesterday to Ace:

It is time to fight for the hill I don't give a damn if they talk hard, moderate, or soft. Just so they vote for true cuts and true cuts now.

If they can not do that then screw them to hell and back. If we don't fight for this hill now we will most certainly die on it anyway.

We can no longer afford to go along to get along in the forlorn hope that a few stupid idiots in the purple States will change their vote to a squishy Republican from a hardcore communist if only we "talk a little softer". A squishy Republican who will only stab us in the back down the rode anyway.

You see, we don't have time to play those games anymore. It is no longer a political game where we argue over how best to "win seats".

If we don't do this now it will not matter who has the "seats"; this country will collapse. And the when that happens it will be worse than it has ever been before. The massive deaths from that period between 1861 until 1865 will be a pimple on the devil's butt.

136 The condescending tone of our RINO betters reminds me of someone... oh yeah, the man who likes to portray himself the adult in the room.

137

Wow. So people, including the poster here, are actually buying into cuts existing over a 10 year span? How many times do you have to be punched in the face before you move your head?

I love how pointing out that cuts scheduled over 10 years have next to no chance of actually happening = being purists and demagouges.

Also love this spin on how not raising taxes is some kind of win. Folks, we could have had that two months ago by just having a clean debt ceiling vote.

138 Caterwauling about slashing EVERYTHING isn't a plan. It's not a solution because, in case you missed it, Obama is still the president. He's still perched right there with a veto pen. So you're just going to have to suck it up and maybe do something to get him out of office. . . . Or you could just keep doing what you're doing: "WAAAAAAAAAAH! The RINOs are mean to meeeeeeeeeee."

Posted by: Gabriel Malor

 This hyperventilating presumes two things:

1. That a 'plan' is needed. This presumes that we will default, and that this crisis is anything more than the machination that it is.

2. cuts stretching beyond the current congress have any force of law. They don't. If we we're debating this honestly, we would be talking about only what WILL happen, not what may happen and be swept away with the one poilitical speech.

 

If you want to be taken seriously, harping on promises of cuts that can't possible be enforced and which will likely be dropped would be a good start.

 

139 Good Lord, Gabe's post reads like something you'd get from one of Frank Luntz's infamously stupid but venerated independents.  Hey Gabe, Speaker Cryin John will bury us, and anyone who supports his effort to do so should and will be run out of town with him. 

140 From the text or Boehner's Debt Ceiling Proposal:

1 ‘‘(c) DISCRETIONARY SPENDING LIMIT.—As used in
2 this part, the term ‘discretionary spending limit’ means—

2012, for total discretionary spending: $1,043,000,000,000
2013, for total discretionary spending: $1,047,000,000,000
2014, for total discretionary spending: $1,066,000,000,000
2015, for total discretionary spending: $1,086,000,000,000
2016, for total discretionary spending: $1,107,000,000,000
2017, for total discretionary spending: $1,131,000,000,000
2018, for total discretionary spending: $1,156,000,000,000
2019, for total discretionary spending: $1,182,000,000,000
2020, for total discretionary spending: $1,208,000,000,000
2021, for total discretionary spending: $1,234,000,000,000 in new budget authority;

p13 - reformated

Discretionary spending is what  they're supposed to be able to cut at will, and apparently they never do. It keeps going up by 20 odd billion per year.

So, the cuts, as such, must be the ol' "cutting what we asked for, not what we spent last time" trick. Second time I fell for that this year...

141 I'm so tired of people on "my side" acting like we don't have an option. It's called not raising the ceiling. Go listen to McConnell on Levin last night. The ONLY danger in not raising the ceiling is that we will basically have a giant govt. furlough. The interest will be serviced and SS checks will go out. Stop treating it as some sort of god-awful thing. It's a legitimate option.

142

I forgot something. Has anyone bothered to ask S&P and Moodys to see if they think that bullshit ten year cuts are okay with them? Because if they aren't, and they see through the crap, then all of the vilification about purists and all of the bleating about how we 'must have a deal, a deal which we can have niot the deal we want to have' is tripe.

Screw Obama, Reid and the Senate Dems. We can go through all of this posturing, and play still more games with numbers, and if the ratings agencies are smart, they may still say that it's garbage and downgrade us.

 

You want a crisis? There it is.

143

143 is the post winner. If those numbers are true, the debate is over. They aren't actual cuts, they are simply the slowing down of the growth that someone, somewhere wanted. At no point is discretionary spending actually CUT.

But hey, you're a demagogue if you don't buy in.

144 And there's this:

3 ‘‘(1) with respect to fiscal year 2012, for total
4 discretionary spending: $1,043,000,000,000, in new
5 budget authority and $1,262,000,000,000 in outlays,

p13

Does this indicate that for 2012, $1,043 billion is the discretionary budget, but $1,262 billion is what is actually expected to be spent?

145

But hey, you're a demagogue if you don't buy in.

Posted by: Rich at July 26, 2011 09:38 AM (wnGI4) 

Er, um...this is the best we can do because we only hold the House!  Oh, and shut up!

146 Text of new debt bill

147 Explain to me how Obama can insist on "revenue enhancements" in exchange for ending the $1T waste, fraud and abuse he says exists in entitlement programs.

Isn't it his JOB to make sure our money isn't wasted, frauded and abused?

He's let this fester for 30 months, and now he wants to cash it in as a bargaining chip. Pretty much all we need to know.

148 I forgot something. Has anyone bothered to ask S&P and Moodys to see if they think that bullshit ten year cuts are okay with them?

I checked this morning and nothing new since the 18th.

149 147 And there's this:

3 ‘‘(1) with respect to fiscal year 2012, for total
4 discretionary spending: $1,043,000,000,000, in new
5 budget authority and $1,262,000,000,000 in outlays,

p13...


Budget authority: "Authority provided by law to enter into obligations that will result in outlays of Federal funds. Budget authority may be classified by the period of availability (one-year, multiyear, no-year), by the timing of congressional action (current or permanent), or by the manner of determining the amount available (definite or indefinite)."

Outlays: "Outlays are payments made (generally through the issuance of checks or disbursement of cash) to liquidate obligations. Outlays during a fiscal year may be for payment of obligations incurred in prior years or in the same year."

150 Ace, "tabling" a bill is NOT the same thing as voting it down. For one thing, you can get it "untabled" much easier -- and DeMint says he is going to do just that.

151 As for Jim Jordan and Jason Chaffetz, both are good men but Jordan at least as always believed you vote for what's closest to being perfect on things like this or vote no. I also understand why he's disappointed due to pushing CCB for so long, and Chaffetz is the drafter of the same. If they can prove they have a strategy to get Reid to bring it to a vote, then I'm on-board with that. But what happens if we can't? Why not try for the best deal we can at this moment in time, especially given Obama's dictatorial tendencies? Treasury too as been fudging their book-keeping for a long time and I simply don't trust them to do the right thing here. So in my opinion, they ought to amend Boehner's bill as necessary and proceed from there.

152 You guys are so enamored of the political maneuvering because you see yourselves as some kind of insiders. Fucking groupies is more apt.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 26, 2011 08:35 AM (s222a)

This.  Every now and then the mask slips and it becomes obvious they hold us in barely less contempt than El JEFe does because they've been in the same room as TOP MEN.

153 It's a legitimate option. Posted by: Rich
.............

Sure, it's an option, if you don't give a rat's ass about our credit rating.. if you don't give a rat's ass about inflation.. yeah, it's an option.

154 A New Deficit Plan
House Republicans are optimistic, but wary

155 Hey Gabe, Directly following his opening in which he blamed Bush and the recession for increased spending, he made an interesting admission, "if we stay on the current path, our growing debt could cost us jobs and do serious damage to the economy." Until recently, the debt and annual deficits were not seen as economic problems, infecting growth and job creation by liberals. By admitting this, Obama has essentially ceded the ground of the argument to the conservatives. They have been working diligently for the previous year to tie increased government spending to the slowing economy.

156 Budget authority: "Authority provided by law to enter into obligations that will result in outlays of Federal funds.

Posted by: 80sBaby
...........

Obligations..  obligations Republicans as well as Democrats made when they passed the last budget in April.  Now, everyone thinks it's ok to renege on those obligations and put the credit rating of the country into the crapper all at the same time.  Nice.

157 Obligation: "An order placed, contract awarded, service received, or similar transaction during a given period that will require payments during the same or a future period."

158 By admitting this, Obama has essentially ceded the ground of the argument to the conservatives. They have been working diligently for the previous year to tie increased government spending to the slowing economy. Posted by: MJ
.......
Obama has been trying to have it both ways for some time now.  He always starts out by saying the debt is dangerous.. down the road.. then he ends up by saying we need to "invest"..  He's pandering.. and the idiot media laps it up..

"Oh.. our Preznit is sooo concerned about the rising debt..."

159 Obligations..  obligations Republicans as well as Democrats made when they passed the last budget in April.  Now, everyone thinks it's ok to renege on those obligations and put the credit rating of the country into the crapper all at the same time.  Nice.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry

 

What in Hell are you talking about? The only person who used that word is you. Or are you claiming that we MUST spend every penny that was authorized, or we've somehow not 'met our obligations'?

160 Cut cap and balance didn't even make it to a vote in the Senate. As long as that is the case, Obama is shielded from using the veto pen. We can't force anything.. we can't pass anything on our own. At best, all we can do is obstruct the other side, and they us. Well, no. The House has the exclusive power to originate spending bills, so we're not obstructing, we're driving. The Senate is pretty much irrelevant as far as devising an agreement, and they know it. They're desperately trying to look like they have some useful function here, but all they are actually doing is running cover for Obama. Obama told Reid to reject a deal he'd previously agreed to push through the Senate, and Reid did exactly what he was told. If Obama insists the Democrats in the Senate pass something, they will pass it. And, as noted, all Obama has is a veto pen. But he's told us all, repeatedly, that failure to raise the debt limit will result in a disaster. He's lying, of course, but that's the game he's chosen to play. Which means he only has the empty threat of a veto, with the Senate majority running interference. Keep pressing with a short-term limit, lots and lots of immediate cuts. Maybe include a fig-leaf of cover for the Democrats in the form of a useless bipartisan committee. I'm convinced that the worst that will happen as a result of actually hitting the debt limit (which almost certainly won't happen anyway) will be a brief and partial Federal government shutdown. No default. No starving old people. Lots of bad press for the Republicans, of course, but if you watch the news you know that's already happened, so that's a silly thing to worry about at this point.

161 "Now, everyone thinks it's ok to renege on those obligations and put the credit rating of the country into the crapper all at the same time." It's just as ok as continuing to spend what we don't have. It's just as ok as reissuing continuing resolution authority at emergency stimulus levels for the past two years. We are already in la-la land. It's a fool's errand to try to make sense of anything we see.

162 From the Section-by-Section Analysis of the Budget Control Act of 2011:

Sec. 501. Federal Pell Grants.

This section provides $13 billion in mandatory funds over two years to help fill the funding gap in the Federal Pell Grant program.

p53 of the actual bill



Did they just tack on another $13 billion in new spending to an emergency deficit control act?

163 Jake Tapper:

House of Reps Call Center: "Due to the high volume of external calls, House telephone circuits...are near capacity..."

164

Sure, it's an option, if you don't give a rat's ass about our credit rating.. if you don't give a rat's ass about inflation.. yeah, it's an option

-------------

Have you been paying any attention? Have you heard the news that SnP will be downgrading our credit raiting if we raise the debt ceiling with no real cuts in place? Have you heard the news that John Boehner's doesn't meet the criteria? So, here you are shilling for the Boehner plan, which will in fact cost us our credit rating? So it seems to me it's you who don't give a rat's ass about it.

165

What in Hell are you talking about? The only person who used that word is you. Or are you claiming that we MUST spend every penny that was authorized, or we've somehow not 'met our obligations'?

Posted by: Blue Hen
..............
Are you living in a dream world?  It's already spent!

Are you willing to shut down Iraq and Afghanistan?  Let's just stop paying the military.. I mean, according to you, just because we authorized it, doesn't mean we have to pay it, right?

And let's cancel all armament orders.. we don't need that crap if we're shutting down the wars, right?

Let's just shut it all down.. all of it.

The pussies that passed that budget now want to hide behind the bluster of saying they don't want to pay for it.  It's too late.. maybe they will grow some gonads and pass a budget next time that has actual cuts in it.

166 167 From the Section-by-Section Analysis of the Budget Control Act of 2011:

Sec. 501. Federal Pell Grants.

This section provides $13 billion in mandatory funds over two years to help fill the funding gap in the Federal Pell Grant program.

p53 of the actual bill

Did they just tack on another $13 billion in new spending to an emergency deficit control act?



From what I can tell, they (the Rules Committee?) added $13B but terminated a whole slew of other things related to direct loans. I think they're trying to take away some arguments that the Dems are making about SS and Pell grants (since SS also appears in the bill) but in my opinion, they should just eliminate that entire section by way of amendment.

167 Did they just tack on another $13 billion in new spending to an emergency deficit control act?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 26, 2011 10:25 AM (EeYDk)

 

Yes and they also got plenty of yearly increases in discretionary spending for HHS (page 10).  I hope I'm reading that wrong but it looks to be Ocare funding in the fucking debt bill.

168 So, here you are shilling for the Boehner plan, which will in fact cost us our credit rating? So it seems to me it's you who don't give a rat's ass about it. Posted by: Rich
..............
I'm not shilling for any plan.  All I'm saying is we cannot let the debt ceiling date pass without doing something.. you want to take that chance like a lot of the folks here.. fine..  let's see what happens.

And if I was for any one plan I would be for Coburn's "Back in Black" plan.  $9 Trillion savings over the next ten years.

169 Jake Tapper:

House of Reps Call Center: "Due to the high volume of external calls, House telephone circuits...are near capacity..."

Posted by: 80sBaby

 

We need to spend more on phones. We're obligated.

170 I'm not shilling for any plan.  All I'm saying is we cannot let the debt ceiling date pass without doing something.. you want to take that chance like a lot of the folks here.. fine..  let's see what happens.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry

 

Doing something. Hmmmmm.

1. set our shorts on fire?

2. Prioritize expenditures?

3. lie about cuts and commissions and institute yet another increase?

4. See if Moodys and the S&P are willing to sign off on our bullshit?

171 Posted by: 80sBaby at July 26, 2011 10:35 AM (o2lIv)

Welcome back!  Nickless, andycanuck, and I all got paroled this am.

172 168 Have you been paying any attention? Have you heard the news that SnP will be downgrading our credit raiting if we raise the debt ceiling with no real cuts in place? Have you heard the news that John Boehner's doesn't meet the criteria? So, here you are shilling for the Boehner plan, which will in fact cost us our credit rating? So it seems to me it's you who don't give a rat's ass about it.


I know you're not talking to me but we're going to lose our credit rating regardless of what we do. Also, if we eventually default, our debt will grow by leaps and bounds due to rising interest rates and inflation. So there is no good answer here. Even CCB does not address the behemoth that is mandatory spending. Ultimately, this is a matter of whether you want to hit hit the reset button or buy more time.

173

I'm not shilling for any plan.  All I'm saying is we cannot let the debt ceiling date pass without doing something.. you want to take that chance like a lot of the folks here.. fine..  let's see what happens.

And if I was for any one plan I would be for Coburn's "Back in Black" plan.  $9 Trillion savings over the next ten years.

----------

.............."doing something" is going to lead to a downgrade because, at this rate, it isn't going to be anything serious. Do you not understand this? The thing you are so afraid of happening is going to happen if we do do something. I mean........

174 We are spending 1600 Billion more than we take in EVERY YEAR. The JEF is saying Repubs want to make irresponsible, DRASTIC cuts that amount to only 100 Billion per year. So we are STILL spending 1500 Billion too much, and that is DRASTIC??? Boehner should have gone in with 750 Billion in cuts THIS YEAR and named the bill 'Barack Obama campaign pledge to cut the defecit in half.' Then we would at least be getting somewhere. And since it has his name in the title, the narcissist cannot resist signing it. Win-win!

175

I know you're not talking to me but we're going to lose our credit rating regardless of what we do. Also, if we eventually default, our debt will grow by leaps and bounds due to rising interest rates and inflation. So there is no good answer here. Even CCB does not address the behemoth that is mandatory spending. Ultimately, this is a matter of whether you want to hit hit the reset button or buy more time.

--------

Post should have been directed at Chi-Town. He brought up the catastrophe that would be losing our credit rating if we didn't raise the ceiling, failing to notice that raising the ceiling would cause the same thing.

176 171 Yes and they also got plenty of yearly increases in discretionary spending for HHS (page 10).  I hope I'm reading that wrong but it looks to be Ocare funding in the fucking debt bill.

No, it's not for ObamaCare. Go back to p6. They're discussing Social Security and a specific program at HHS that pre-dates ObamaCare.

177 175 Welcome back!  Nickless, andycanuck, and I all got paroled this am.

Thank you!
Congratulations!

178 osted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 26, 2011 09:32 AM (OWjjx) My point is to get the vote on record, win or lose. If we are going to fix the Country we need the Senate. You can't lie your way out of a recorded vote.

179 Jordan thinks its possible to force Reid to take a vote on CCB. How do we do that? If DeMint has a strategy, he and Jordan need to present it to Boehner.

180 Text of new BBA

181

Guys I have to say it.  The ONLY adult anywhere near this debate is Boehner.  He's got a vapid fool for a President.  He's got Nancy riding her broom off to  his left--waaaay off to his left.  Of course Nancy, having screwed the Blue Dogs into retirement over Obamacare, still has her posse--the craziest of the crazys.   He's got Dingy Harry who is a backroom vote counting boy pressed into front line service.  He's got the Tea Party boys holding his feet to the no increased taxes fire.   And somehow he's doing okay with all of this.

It reminds me of the old Dr. Demento favorite "Mooseturd Pie".   When all you have for ingredients is moose turds, well you make mooseturd pie.

I think Boehner genuinely cares about this country--as opposed to OBozo who genuinely cares only about his own nasty self.  

I'll take what Boehner can get out of this mess.

 

182 "I'm not trying to be harsh here........but saying things like 'we need a vote on CC&B' or 'force a vote on CC&B' doesn't mean you are going to actually get a vote on CC&B." Then, whose fault is that? The House has passed a bill. If the Senate won't vote on it, then we have an impasse. Too bad. If forced to choose between the apocalypse and thirty more years of working my ass off to support not only me and mine, but also the gaggle of deadweight, deadbeat ingrates who keep voting to put me in a deeper hole, I'd go with a coin flip at this point.

183

The critique of Chaffetz and Jordan seems to assume any increase in the debt ceiling is both desirable and a foregone conclusion.  It's neither.  For Obama to take any action on a debt increase, Congress must first act, and Chaffetz and Jordan, being members of Congress,  actually have some say in whether the debt ceiling is increased or not.  Comparing Obama's rhetoric-based saber rattling  on an issue on which he has no Constitutional say other than a veto with Chaffetz and Jordan's principled stance is inapt, to say the least.  They are doing what they were elected to do, Obama is engaging in what he thinks is clever political brinksmanship.  It's not clever, and it's not brinksmanship at least in the way he thinks.  There is no basis to believe an increase in the debt ceiling contributes to the U.S. ability to meet its obligations, all it does is allow the issuance of additional debt to either fund existing or incur future obligations.  Several ratings agencies are already on rating that a downgrade will come even with a debt ceiling increase.  Point is, we're screwed either way unless we make some meaningful changes in spending that are not entirely based on current expenditures and out-year cuts.  That is what Chaffetz/Jordan are attempting to do.  You did not note that Jordan also happens to be chair of the Republican Study Committee, so he does have some legitimate heft and voice in this Congress.

184 He's got the Tea Party boys holding his feet to the no increased taxes fire.   And somehow he's doing okay with all of this.

Comanche,
I won't argue with your main point, but I do object to the implication that "no increased taxes" is an example of an extreme point (equivalent to, for example, the Democrats' or Obama's positions). 
That's the sensible position for anyone who has observed what is happening right now vis a vis jobs, economic growth, and pocketbook politics. 

185 "Sorry, but discussing plans that are not going to happen seems like a waste of time." My point is that doing nothing and letting the chips fall where they may is an option. Arguing for this option is not a waste of time.

186 188 You did not note that Jordan also happens to be chair of the Republican Study Committee, so he does have some legitimate heft and voice in this Congress.

Jordan does have influence considering his position but we also need to look at his history. He has almost always held that the perfect position is better than the best you can do, plus you factor-in that this is a matter of pride for him (he led the push for CCB) and he and Boehner have a history. But there's also something else-- he is on the record as stating he will only raise the limit under CCB. So he would have trashed Boehner's proposal regardless [because it is not CCB].

187 I could also expand on that by saying this-- everyone involved in this has some vested interest of some kind, regardless of their position.

188 Wishcasting is not political strategy.

Nor is it a fiscal policy, but that's basically what the Boehner plan relies upon.  What's to say we won't be in the same position in 2013 holding the House and Presidency, short 4 votes in the Senate for all the awesomely awesome work the GOP is planning to unleash to fix this very critical problem?

Unfortunately the current 'plan' of the realistic insiders is to put the debt ceiling to bed with a highly subjective political 'victory'.  Then, defeat Obama in 2012 and win the Senate, apparently with a filibuster proof majority.  If all these planets align, then we might look into seriously addressing the problem.  This is wishcasting just as much as hoping there are 4 Democrat Senators who can be swayed right now. 

It's at least worth a try to push for CC&B in the Senate..

189 I don't know about you but when the President is speaking on TV, I simply turn off the sound and whip up the volume on Billy Idol's White Wedding. And crack a beer.

190

I hope no deal is reached! The only deal remotely acceptable was CCB. I fortunately have prepared properly for whatever pain may come, nad have been fortunate enough to have been able to get ahead in life.

Good Luck to rest of you....your gonna need it

191 Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at July 26, 2011 11:52 AM

I never listen to him or look at a photo of him if I can help it.  There's not enough beer on the planet to dull the pain of listening to that jerk. 

192 "Politicians (and we are dealing with politicians) like business owners and most rational people, like stability." This focus on the debt limit has been bullshit. The system is unstable because of runaway spending and entitlements. Anything that does not address these two things is a sham. The focus is on the debt limit because Obama put the focus there. He made it into a bogeyman. He did this because holding on the debt limit is the one remaining tool the GOP has in its bag of tricks thanks to their squandering their opportunities at the remainder of FY2011's spending and the last debt limit raise. Obama has taken our country's creditworthiness hostage. Obama has done so because he has the status quo on his side, and all he needs to do is to run out the clock. Shoot the hostage. The fault belongs to the asshole who put the hostage in danger in the first place. The fault belongs to the asshole who goes on TV and lies about not being able to send out social security checks. If the limit is not raised, one of two things happens: 1. The deadline passes and turbotax timmy figures out how to jump through his asshole to keep us from going into default, and the Dick scores another tick in his failed predictions tally 2. The world ends If the first thing happens, then we have solid footing on the road to making things right someday. If the second thing happens, then how much worse is that than the soul-crushing despair of looking forward to thirty more years of working just to have the tax man rob me at gunpoint so that I can help keep the subjects of Zombie's photo pictorials farting through silk?

193 111 I'd also like to see a link to Jason Chaffetz's "no as no can be" quote.  I can't find it.

Washington Examiner:

“I’m as no as you can possibly be," Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, said outside the House floor this evening. “I did something I never thought I’d be able to do, and that’s vote to raise the debt ceiling. And that was contingent on sending a Balanced Budget Amendment to the states.”

194

Chaffetz was giddy on Greta last night.  It was strange really, he must have thought Obama really bombed.

I think Chaffetz and others are posturing for the Balanced Budget Amendment, and could care less about the details passed this year. 

They are right in some ways but one result of the balanced budget Amendment will most certainly be higher taxes, because if we have to quickly balance the budget, to conform with a new law, Taxes are the quickest way to make the numbers work on paper. 

Be careful what we ask for.  If we aren't careful we could shoot our selves in the foot by not limiting the tax side of "balance".

A smart Democrat might see this and know it for a perfect excuse to continually raise taxes to balance the budget.

How do you word a Balanced Budget Amendment to include only budget cuts? 

195 I like CC&B and think its passage would be great. I'd also like a diet where all I had to do to lose weight was drink beer and sit on my backside. I don't think that is gonna work either.

To be fair, the Boehner plan is much more like drinking beer and expecting to lose weight.  CC&B is like trying to convince your fatass friend to go jogging.

The latter is difficult.  The former is delusional.

196 Posted by: 80sBaby at July 26, 2011 12:13 PM

Thanks.

So a paraphrase, not a quote despite the punctuation.

I didn't see a lot of demagoguery in Chaffetz's remarks.  I read that he felt he'd compromised by voting for a debt ceiling increase with the understanding there'd be a BBA and that now that the latter isn't happening, he's not going to unilaterally vote to raise the debt ceiling. 

Seems like a defensible position to me. 

197

#43 davidthe moby in virginia

 

I am sure you are not a RINO.  You don't pretend to be one because you're not.  You just another DU moby.

 

Don't be quite so obvious in displaying the amount of Kool Aid you guzzle.  Sure ignore principles and just obey Obama.  Its the smart thing to do.

 

 

Really?  Obama lost the House following your policies and the dhimmies will lose the Senate and presidency in 2012.

Since as you say the GOP can do nothing, let Obama raise taxes and continue his policies.  Keep spending.  Run up the deficits.

 

In 2012 we will see the end of a century of progressive thrashing of the country.  Its time for people to stop idiots like you from selling off our liberties for more BIG BROTHER.

 

#204

 

Its nice to see intelligent comments.  Keep them up sir.  You raise the level of comments here.

198

#195

 

How long have you worked for the Federal Government.  If you have ever dealt with civil servants you can tell when you're dealing with one.  If you ask an engineer or a mechanic or anyone in the real world what the matter is with your car, house, heating system,, etc they will tell you what the problem is and what must be done to resolve it.

 

Only in faculty lounges and civil servants when you ask them what is wrong with myt car will you get a response that is we need a commission; further study is required; because we don't have enough votes to buy spare parts; we tried it before.  In short shut up and obey the RINOs.

 

The last time we saw someone laugh at the RINOs it was Reagan.  He didn't buy the impossible arguments and did the impossible.

 

RINOs can be distinguished by their worshop of the status quo, as long as that means bigger government.  BIG BROTHER knows best for these people.

199 I live in Chaffetz's district. He's a political hack and opportunist who loves the camera more than anything else.

200 I have been absent for some time, but now I remember why I used to love this website. Thanks , I will try and check back more frequently. How frequently you update your web site?

201

#140 Blue Hen

 

Brillant comment.  GM seems intend on replacing Boehner so we can see what real bi partisanship is like.  Sort of like Pemberton negotiating with Grant at Vicksburg.

 

But we can judge GM's honest and intelligence when he states "he was the only blogger opposing TRAP."

 

Its good to know we can rely on someone with so much humility, honesty and good judgement.

 

Now he can tell us how he single handedly fought off the GM bailout.