1 I am very dubious of "exoneration" based on 30 year old DNA. I smell another "Project Innocence" scam.

2 Oh as far as the money goes what does it matter? He probably tried to grow tomatoes in that cell and was denied subsidies from the farm bureau. He should apply for that as well.

3 "Frame yourself" for a crime? Right. All you'd have to do is falsify some evidence (a crime in itself, actually) to make it seem like you're the perp, then spend 30 YEARS IN FEDERAL POUND-ME-IN-THE-ASS PRISON hoping the real evidence trumps your mischief, and that nobody ever finds out you did it on purpose. Come on, PA, that's retarded. This guy lost 30 years of his life to a government fuck-up. 80k/yr is peanuts.

4

"In today's employment challenged economy, there's gotta be a lot of folks who would very willingly do a "phony nickle" knowing there was a $400,000 payday waiting for them on the other side; even more so if they happened to have some medical problems they couldn't afford to have treated otherwise."

Having worked in a supermax before, I doubt the vast majority would be able to handle 5 months, let alone 5 years. I'm also not sure I'd want to trade the enhanced chance of picking up HIV, hepatitis, or even tuberculosis, for that affordable treatment either.

5 I am very dubious of "exoneration" based on 30 year old DNA.

If we can get DNA fragments of dinosaurs and neanderthals, something that's only 30 years old isn't a big deal.  Forensic techniques have advanced a lot in the past 10 years.

Yes, this was an innocence project deal.  I have no problem with what they're doing either.  There's hundreds/thousands of people behind bars around the country that were flat out framed or put there via shoddy police work. 

6 Having worked the better part of a decade as a member of a federal prison staff, I can that if I was ever sentenced to more than a very few years, I would be crawling up the prison fence in hopes of getting shot. I don't think we have to lose too much sleep over a wave of people faking crimes in order to spend decades in prison. Just don't.

7 Having worked in a supermax before, I doubt the vast majority would be able to handle 5 months, let alone 5 years.

Who said anything about a SuperMax?  Framing yourself for something that would put you there would be stupid.  I'm thinking crimes that'll get you sent to some nice minimum security country club where they got tennis courts, bocci, and no cells or walls...something like say Eglin.

8 Hard to put a price on the ability to come and go as you please, income notwithstanding.  Not to mention the sundry indignities one must regularly undergo.

80 G's may not be chump change, but I'll be damned if I'd subject myself to a year in the clink for that kind of money.

9 I stand by what I said about 30 year old DNA and Project Innocence. Both are bull shit.

10 Hard to put a price on the ability to come and go as you please

Prison might be a drag if you didn't want to be there, but maybe not so much if you did.

11 I stand by what I said about 30 year old DNA and Project Innocence. Both are bull shit.

Any innocent person who does a day in prison is abhorrent to me, and I'll stand by that.

12 Any innocent person who does a day in prison is abhorrent to me, and I'll stand by that.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2011 06:41 AM (4iRGM)

I'll agree with that, but I don't agree that the majority of the people this project is getting off are innocent.

13 What we should be doing is fixing the broken legal system.

14 I am all for the payout - as long as it comes out of the pocket of the prosecutor who railroaded him.  Throw in the cops who probably fudged a little evidence, as well.

Its not the publics fault - thats for sure.

15 I'm with Caiwyn, PA.  It's a ridiculous notion.. opportunity??  Really?

And, come to think of it, if you were smart enough to pull that kind of thing off, you would probably already be gainfully employed doing something useful with your life.

30 years.  30 freakin years!  Pay the man..

16 OT WOW on Fox Now

The portion of the spending bill that prohibited spending money on moving prisoners from GITMO to the US for trial. Obama signed the bill with one of those "signing statements" that they excoriated Bush for, that said he would ignore the GITMO prohibition!

This is NOT an "interpretation" folks. He says he will totally ignore and outright prohibition from Congress. 

Another one for the whatif book.

17 I am all for the payout - as long as it comes out of the pocket of the prosecutor who railroaded him.  Throw in the cops who probably fudged a little evidence, as well.

Its not the publics fault - thats for sure.

I am for that as well. I am sure this 80K/year payout is also based on a strong "can't sue us" contract which the lawyers will immediately trash and sue anyway. But that is one thing I am sick of. The government officials who were responsible for this kind of thing NEVER get held accountable.

The tax payer always pays. 

18 I'll agree with that, but I don't agree that the majority of the people this project is getting off are innocent.

Many are undoubtedly guilty of something and have long criminal histories.  If the public is to have any trust in the justice system, it must behave honorably and not frame/railroad people even if they deserve to be in jail for a dozen other things they weren't caught for.

Corruption is like cancer. 

19 opportunity??  Really?

Ask some guy with a "will work for food" sign on a street corner if he'd be willing to do 5 years in minimum security for a $400,000 payday.

These days I think you'd be surprised at the answer.

No bill problems, no going hungry, clothing provided, don't having to sleep in a park.  If you're really down, and can handle a structured work day, prison has quite a lot to recommend it.

20 Corruption is like cancer.

As I said, we should be concentrating on the broken legal system in this country. It is totally screwed up, both the criminal and civil system. It is screwed up primarily because we let lawyers legislate.

21 But that is one thing I am sick of. The government officials who were responsible for this kind of thing NEVER get held accountable.

Fabricating evidence or withholding exculpatory evidence from the defense should be a mandatory life sentence for the prosecutors and cops involved in the railroading.

The penalty for that shit needs to be so fucking severe, that nobody will even consider doing it.

22

I'd rather see a million guilty people walk free than to see one single innocent person put in prison. The government and the prosecution have the responsibility to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and when they fabricate, withhold, or alter evidence to attain that, they are guilty of crime. If any citizen can be tried for falsifying evidence and lying under oath, then so should prosecutors, lawyers, law enforcement, and judges.

If your freedom is taken from you because of a rigged trial or falsified evidence, I think you are due a hell of a lot more than $80k/year, assumed guilt in other crimes not withstanding...

23 Slow news day here at the HQ, I see.

I'll put this down around item number 1.7 million or so of the things I'm worried about. Below Global Warming™ even.

24 In the course of my employment, I have been in various prisons on several occasions.  Prison is no joke.  One thing that impressed me was an item known as a controller.  For economic, rehabilitation, and other reasons, the prisoners run the prison.  They do the plumbing the carpentry etc.  Therefore they have access to tools and material that they can make things  from.  Among the things that they make, are controllers.  A controller consists of a scythe-like semicircle about the diameter of a coffee cup.  Attached to this semicircle at one end and at right angles is a handle three or four inches long.  The idea is that you approach someone from behind, stab them with the semicircle is such a manner that the blade goes under-around a rib, and thus control them as you sexually assault them.  Even if they were willing to endure the pain of having the controller rip through their flesh, it is hooked under the rib so they can't get away.

When you are in prison, you are living with people who don't care anymore for the rights of others than you do; i.e., people who think up things like the controller.

25

www.fashionspaceonline.com  is one of the great resource for brand new fashionable clothing, shoes and accessories.
Here are the main products that we deal with:

 

Shoes: Nike Air Jordan, Air Force 1, Nike Air Jordan AFJ Fusion, Dunk SB, Nike Air Max, Air Shox Running Shoes, Nike Air Zoom Dunkesto, Air Yeezy, Nike Work Boots, ACG, Nike Foamposite, Gucci, Prada, Puma Ferrari, Supra, Ato Matsumoto, Lacoste, James, Kobe, Converse, Creative Recreation, CR DICOCO, Ed hardy, Evisu, Mauri, Coogi, Dsquared, Ice Cream, New Balance, Greedy Genius, Clae Shoes and Sneakers.

 

Jeans: Evisu, Gucci, Armani, Bape BBC, Red Monkey, G-Star, Levis, Diesel, Versace, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Ed Hardy, True Religion, Coogi, Christian Audigier, Affliction, Laguna Beach, Iceberg, Crown Holder, Roca wear, Dolce & Gabbana, Artful Dodger, Blac Label, Rock & Republic Jeans Shorts and Pants.

 

T-shirt: BBC, Bape, G-Star, Evisu, Coogi, Armani, LV, 5ive jungle, Akademiks, Smet, A & F, Affliction, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier, Blac Label, Polo, Lacoste, Crown Holder, Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Ecko, Gucci, Adidas, Nike, Levis T-shirts and dress shirts.

Other Accessories: Chanel, Chloe, Coach, Dior, Gucci, Fendi, LV, Juicy, Prada, D&G, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier Leather Handbag, Purse and Wallets.
Rolex, Breitlint, JACOB & CO. Cartier, Gucci, Ed Hardy Watches.
D&G, Okley, Fendi, Coach, Chanel, Gucci, Prada, Armani, Versace, Burberry, Ray.Ban, Ed hardy, Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior, Cartier Sun Glasses
Armani, CK, D&G, LV, Versace, Ed Hardy, Diesel, Gucci, polo, Prada, Puma, Versace, G-star Underwears.
Juicy, Bikini, Ed Hardy, A&F, Polo, Christian Audigier Swimming Wear, Bikini, Bathing suits.
Bape, Ed Hardy, New Era, Coogi, Gucci, New era with light, Louis Vuitton, Monster Energy Caps
DSQ, D&G, LV, Bape, Armani, Gucci, Chanel, Boss, Affliction, Versace, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier Belts.
Welcome to contact us by MSN: babydress898@hotmail.com .Thanks!

26 I am all for the payout - as long as it comes out of the pocket of the prosecutor who railroaded him.

As a prosecutor, I'm not thrilled with this plan.  We had a guy last year accused by his ex of a kidnapping and rape at gunpoint.  This is a small community so we knew him and knew that he was a dirtbag of the type that might do something like this.  He spent six months in jail awaiting trial before the DNA came back showing that it wasn't him.  (It's not like on CSI, it takes months to get DNA.)  Confronted with the evidence, the ex admitted that she made the whole thing up to get an advantage in a custody suit.  She has now been charged with perjury.  (She testified falsely at preliminary hearing.)

One of the things I like about this is that the DNA turned out to be her sister's fiance's DNA. 

27 Umm... Purple Avenger, usually I like your posts and find them very pithy, but this one seems to have jumped the shark a bit. People "framing themselves" and spending 30 years in prison, in hopes that some technology that didn't exist when they were convicted will clear them a few decades on, and they will get a great big payoff? Ummm... Okay.

28 I wish I had the integrity of Cornelius Dupree, Jr.

29 Thirty years plus prison rape for a shot at big government money?

I'm down.

30 Eyewitnesses are notoriously poor evidence This just shows how much the bullshite Innocence Project and their ilk has corrupted some peoples' thinking. This might be the most absurd statement I have ever read on this site. Perhaps it calls for some qualification?

31 In today's employment challenged economy, there's gotta be a lot of folks who would very willingly do a "phony nickle"

I assume this is written tongue in cheek, or by someone who's never been inside.

To say that jail sucks is an understatement.

32 "Posted by: Tonawanda at January 05, 2011 08:05 AM (bN5ZU)" The statement is true. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously inaccurate. Ample experimental evidence exists to show how the process works. See Elizabeth Loftus, among others.

33 He may or may not have been a $100k/year (pre tax) kind of guy, but I've got no problem with this coming out of the public coffers.  The system that put him in is broke, but we are the system.  The only thing that would make it better is to see the prosecutor have to take his place in prison for the same length served.  Innocent folks, or the strong possibility of innocence, being incarcerated is a societal tragedy that sickens me.

34 Posted by: WalrusRex at January 05, 2011 07:58 AM (xxgag)

In your noted case the DA/prosecutors acted responsibly and the accused was exonerated. The point about being held accountable was made for DA's like the one in NC who tried to railroad the people at Duke when he knew they were innocent.

35 The system that put him in is broke, but we are the system.

No we are NOT. The system is lawyer driven. Laws passed by lawyers, for lawyers, and to the advantage of lawyers.

If we are not going to hold the people who actually did the railroading accountable, lets hold all the lawyers accountable and make the ABA for the State pay it.

36 "Frame yourself"?  How, exactly, would you do that?  First- you've got to have a crime (I think) that you didn't do?  Or make it look like you didn't - then make it look like you did (but didn't really ... see where the problem is here?).

I suppose you could hunt around for a crime someone else did, then try making it look like you did it - then plant some evidence that can be found later to get you off again?  This is really pretty tough; a guy that can do this could find an easier way to make a few bucks, couldn't he?  And a pretty big risk, too.

Then, there's the problem with falsifying evidence, and obstructing justice - both of which could be REAL crimes.

You know - give you credit for the thought, but I wouldn't invest in this one.

37 I'll amend my statement above that in the case where someone else perjured themselves they get the same time served as the wrongly accused and not the prosecutor, but otherwise, it is the prosecutor that is on the hot seat.

38 If we had real justice in this country more than half of Washington D.C and their big banker friends (Chase, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley) not to mention AIG, would be serving time.  And not in one of those cushy prisons either.

39 The point about being held accountable was made for DA's like the one in NC who tried to railroad the people at Duke when he knew they were innocent.

Yeah, Nifong, he was a scumbag and a stupid one at that.

40 Come on Vic, we can blame the lawyers, but if we are to be a society of free folks, we have to stand up when it is our turn.  We elect and put the people in place that facilitate how the system is set up.

41 Getting a gubmint job is easier and far more rewarding for those who like to partake a bit of taxpayer largesse. Get a job for the City of NY or Philly; retire; start collecting that beautiful pension and go back to work for the City; repeat as necessary. OR just take a job as a public school teacher.

42 Purple Avenger, I think you are really off base with this one. I doubt most people have the stamina or self control to go to prison for a year, and even less so with the criminal class.

On a different point, I have long had a problem with people getting convicted of stuff they didn't do. Apparently we have a defective legal system. (Duh) I've long asked how it would be possible to convict someone of something when they really didn't do it, but it happens far too often.

As you said, eyewitness testimony is almost worthless in my opinion, especially when it requires identification of someone not personally known to the victim.

43 9 I stand by what I said about 30 year old DNA and Project Innocence. Both are bull shit.

Posted by: Vic at January 05, 2011 06:37 AM (M9Ie6)

I normally agree with you, but 30 years is nothing to the current state of the art in DNA testing. Project innocence IS the product of some really lousy people (Barry Sheck) but their results are not simply accepted on face value. They have indeed discovered a lot of people who really didn't commit the crime of which they were accused.

The only reason so many of them are from Texas is because Texas maintains evidence for decades, unlike many other states. Texas is one of the few places that it is possible to find 30 year old evidence.

44 I would rather 5 guilty men go free than 1 innocent go to prison, but that's about it.

Maybe 6.7, but that's my final offer.

45 14 I am all for the payout - as long as it comes out of the pocket of the prosecutor who railroaded him.  Throw in the cops who probably fudged a little evidence, as well.

Its not the publics fault - thats for sure.

Posted by: george at January 05, 2011 06:47 AM (y0VOX)

Amen. Unfortunately these assholes have immunity. It is a common concept in Engineering that no system is going to work properly without some sort of Negative Feedback. Lack of Negative Feedback is what is wrong with a LOT of our governmental systems.

Assholes can do bad things without getting any comeuppance, and so they have no reason to change or be careful. 

46
Corruption is like cancer. 

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 05, 2011 06:52 AM (4iRGM)

I wouldn't call it corruption. I would call it incompetence coupled with apathy.

47

If your freedom is taken from you because of a rigged trial or falsified evidence, I think you are due a hell of a lot more than $80k/year, assumed guilt in other crimes not withstanding...

Posted by: FreedomFighter at January 05, 2011 07:33 AM (q/891)

Part of the problem is that Jurys nowadays are fare stupider than Jurys of yesteryear. Perhaps it's time to go to a professional Jury, or restrict Jury selection to the Voter rolls once more?

48 As a prosecutor, I'm not thrilled with this plan.  We had a guy last year accused by his ex of a kidnapping and rape at gunpoint.  This is a small community so we knew him and knew that he was a dirtbag of the type that might do something like this.  He spent six months in jail awaiting trial before the DNA came back showing that it wasn't him.  (It's not like on CSI, it takes months to get DNA.)  Confronted with the evidence, the ex admitted that she made the whole thing up to get an advantage in a custody suit.  She has now been charged with perjury.  (She testified falsely at preliminary hearing.)

One of the things I like about this is that the DNA turned out to be her sister's fiance's DNA. 

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 05, 2011 07:58 AM (xxgag)

Nothing in this was willfull or apathetic misconduct. I see no offense committed by the prosecutor, but instead by the false witness of the wife.

49 Come on Vic, we can blame the lawyers, but if we are to be a society of free folks, we have to stand up when it is our turn.

If we returned to the system of voting and choosing juries we had in place in 1776 I would agree with you. Now there is no part of "we" that I agree with. "We" didn't put this screwed up system in place. I take zero credit for any of it.

50 This just shows how much the bullshite Innocence Project and their ilk has corrupted some peoples' thinking.

This might be the most absurd statement I have ever read on this site.

Perhaps it calls for some qualification?

Posted by: Tonawanda at January 05, 2011 08:05 AM (bN5ZU)

Eyewitness testimony IS terrible evidence, especially when the victim or witness does not personally know the suspect. Mis-identification is well documented in the history of criminal law.

51 Well, yeah, $400,000....and repeated anal raping for five freaking years...

So yeah, it's basically heaven.

52 Cops can be sued as individuals if they conceal evidence/perjure themselves, so there is some recourse against them. Prosecutors, on the other hand, are virtually immune from this. Add the fact that many DAs are elected, and you have a recipe for all kinds of fuckery.

53 <i>I am very dubious of "exoneration" based on 30 year old DNA. I smell another "Project Innocence" scam.</i>


Yeah?   Well he repeated refused to "admit" the crime in exchange for parole.  He would have been able to be freed 15 years ago if he had just admitted he did it.

Now my wife would stay in jail for 15 years before admitted she had done something she had in fact done, but a mere moral?  No way...

54 Cops can be sued as individuals if they conceal evidence/perjure themselves, so there is some recourse against them.

They never are, thanks to our "deep pockets" shared liability laws put in place by you guessed it - lawyers.

55 I don't understand your objections, Vic. The Innocence Project does good work. People do get put in prison based on false testimony, bad evidence, police corruption, and legal malpractice. The whole situation in Mississippi with the Steven Hayne, Coroner For Hire, shows how bad it can get if the legal system doesn't place checks the on prosecutors. And when they abuse their power, prosecutors and police should be liable for bringing false charges against people, or else there's no disincentive against sloppy work and corruption.

And even if everyone acts in good faith, there are forensic techniques that turn out to be unreliable junk science, like bullet-lead analysis. And when false evidence is used to convict people, that conviction needs to be re-examined. Why would that even be in dispute?

56 "We" didn't put this screwed up system in place.

Agree, but we are the ones to work to make it better.

57 The Innocence Project does good work.

Not from reports that I have read in the past. In this case, they may be right but their past history is bad.

58 Plus, it's all expense paid! Free cable TV, room & board, healthcare, exercise facilities, education... man, it's a win win!

59 Caiwyn@3 FTW.

That's a helluva gamble (besides the risk of turd-burgling and gut-shivving) to take in the hopes that even manufactured justice will prevail.

What if the perfectly-designed plan goes awry? Oops. Not quite the lottery it was designed to be. And $80,000/yr isn't what it used to be.

60 # 32, # 50 Eyewitness testimony is not identification testimony necessarily, that is why the statement required qualification. The statement was absurd because it was unqualified. It was dangerously absurd because it perpetuated the malign CSI mentality spread by Innocence Project type folks that DNA evidence is necessary before one can morally convict. Most convictions are based on eyewitness testimony, that is a fact, and most convictions are rock solid. Loftus has nothing to do with my point. But though there are courts who have been affected by research of her sort, the practical effects at trial of the research are close to meaningless, because every case is unique, and application of her research to any given case almost always lacks a non-speculative means of connecting the general to the specific. Juries have always had a way to sort through questions of misidentification, and they have reliably acquitted when the reliability of the id was in reasonable doubt. The cases where misidentification becomes a tragic issue, is often where a bizarre concurrence of events falsely corroborates the identification. No amount of research will ever do away with those one in a million anomalies.

61 I'll agree with that, but I don't agree that the majority of the people this project is getting off are innocent.


Gotta agree with this to some degree. The article about Dupree also mentioned his co-defendant Massengile, who has been cleared by the DNA testing as well, but is not being released (or compensated) because of another rape for which he was convicted. Somehow, I doubt these two were upstanding citizens who happened to be walking down the wrong street at the wrong time. They had to have something more than 1 out of 2 eyewitness ID's to convict these guys, or even look at them as serious suspects.

62 "This guy lost 30 years of his life to a government fuck-up." First of all, all I have read about this case points to eyewitness issues - not a government employee railroading him into jail. The prosecutor puts the witnesses on the stand, it is up to the jury to determine whether the witnesses are believable. As much as I hate to see an innocent man jailed, that is the risk you take in having a trial by jury. Our system guarantees you a trial, that doesn't always mean justice. For someone who gets convicted due to illegalities - prosecutorial misconduct, etc. - they are due a payout. Someone mistakenly convicted by a jury, I'm sorry, I don't believe we (the taxpayer) owes that person. Let him sue his original lawyer for malpractice. Why should we pay when jurors make a mistake?

63 That's not all:

"Under Texas compensation laws for the wrongly imprisoned, Dupree is eligible for $80,000 for each year he was behind bars, plus a lifetime annuity. He could receive $2.4 million in a lump sum that is not subject to federal income tax."

You'd have to earn at least $5 million to get $2.4 million after taxes.

64 And once again, TX is better than MA.  When it became obvious to every sentient human being on earth that the day-care sex abuse case was made of unicorn farts, fairy dust, and criminal malfeasance on the part of the prosecutors, the state left the victims in jail for *years* and refused to acknowledge their failure in the case.

And I'd be surprised if they ever even gave them an apology for destroying their lives, let alone a little cash.

65 this guy just might do the time for the payout

http://tinyurl.com/36odqxp

66 http://tinyurl.com/36odqxp

67 80K/year is nothing considering the State and jurors stole 30 years of a man's life.

That is 30 years you can NEVER get back, not to mention you've lost 30 years of opportunity to make yourself into something. If you go in at 20 and are released at 50 with no skills or work experience, what kind of life can the guy expect post-release. Who's going to hire a 50year old man who has been in jail for 30 years, even if he has been exonerated?

He deserves every penny of it and more, IMO.

#62, when jurors are called, they are acting as agents on behalf of the state; further, it isn't always the lawyer's fault. A bad judge or poor jury can easily imprison someone despite the lawyer's best efforts. I'm assuming this guy went through the appeals process, where the jury mistake could have been corrected, yet it wasn't.

No way do you jail an innocent man for 30 years, release him and say 'oops, our bad.' That is reprehensible.

68

There is something just a bit odd here.  In the case documents I read on the Innocence Project site, they stated that the evidence tested consisted of two items/sources: pubic hair combings and pubic hair clippings.  The DNA lab in California (there was only one lab) stated that the combings produced no evidence at all of semen/sperm to test.  Just nothing present to even test.  The clippings, on the other hand, did show the presence of it, and that is what was tested.  Somebody should be asking how it is possible that combings from the pubic hair contained no evidence at all of sperm, but clippings did.  How is it possible for there to be semen/sperm present in clippings, but nothing at all gathered in the combing?

 

 

 

69 someone @64 FTW!

This injustice could have been corrected by many people over a period of years, but not only did no one lift a finger, they conspired to keep an innocent person in prison to cover their own asses.

*Lookin' at you Jane Swift and Marsha, Marsha, Marsha Coakley*

70 Obviously you have never seen a Texas prison...   $80k a day wouldn't entice you in....

71 Although I'd say going to prison for a $$ payout is extreme, in Detroit, it is not unknown for someone to commit a petty crime to go to jail so they could get a hot meal and somewhere warm to sleep for a while, as well as medical treatment

So while this may seem extreme, I don't put it outside the possibility of reality.

The world is a strange place.

72 ......employment opportunity? really? that's a stretch...and really what criminal runs around claiming they are guilty for 30 yrs and then puts a hand out at the end and says psyche! pay up! the system failed and the system must pay period.....there is a thing called accountability

73 I still disagree blindside. The fact is, juries make mistakes. You're telling me that every time a jury makes a mistake, we're on the hook? Yes, it is horrible that a man lost 30 years of his life. Yes, our government should help him get back on his feet - expunge his record, help him with vocational training, heck, I'd even support them giving him a job - but I absolutely do not think someone is OWED money for the time they spent in jail for a mistake made by the jury. And yes, I personally know someone wrongfully convicted and jailed and still feel the same way about that person. We can't have a system that leaves open the opportunity for mistakes, but which is equal for all, and put taxpayers on the hook for the mistakes a group of 12 people made 30 years ago.

74 people might see this program as an ummm..."opportunity". All you'd have to do is frame yourself for some crime, hide/obscure the critical exculpatory evidence, then allow it to be "found" when you've decided the payday is suitably large.

Prison is no paradise -- it's a horrible hell-hole.  I doubt anyone would want to risk so much to gain what appears to me to be a pittance.

75 Pretty sick post.  $80 Grand a year for being in prison!?!  My opinion is Texas should be given him MILLIONS for each year in prison.  Gee, Purple Avenger, you really don't value freedom very high, maybe, just maybe deep down inside you are a communist sympathizer?  Doesn't sound like you're a freedom loving American patriot.

76 The legal system is something which was cleverly designed by a bunch of psychopathic minds over the centuries to fool the intelligent into not looking closely at it. It is designed to convict 90% of the defendants who come before it regardless of their actual guilt or innocence. It has a bunch of familiar structures: a referee, two opposing teams, theories, proofs, fairness; but all of those things are careful psychopathic distortions of what the intelligent mind is used to seeing - which the vast majority of people will never question - and which give great benefit to the psychopaths who do understand it.

What the legal system is designed to do is maximize the chance that any innocent person who comes before it will be convicted, while simultaneously maximizing the chance that any guilty person will go free - all the while appearing to do just the opposite. You disagree? Then design a psychopathic legal system which is meant to do all of the above.  What you will discover, if you make that attempt, is that design of yours would not differ from the current system in any major aspect; even to the point of having a blindfolded justice as its symbol - since hoodwinking justice is what a psychopathic system is all about.

Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a law student who had hoped to become a prosecutor. When he was sentenced to death the judge expressed sadness that Bundy had "thrown away a promising legal career". Hello McFly; he was a psychopathic serial killer, why would anyone express sadness that he had thrown away a career in their field - unless they too were a psychopath in a field meant for psychopaths? I will leave each of you to ponder what sort of prosecutor Ted Bundy would have made - had he simply been able to delay his gratification until he was in place to get away with being a legal psychopathic serial killer.

I haven't got room here to point out all of the things that are evil about the legal system; so I will confine my self to one additional observation. The United States is an egalitarian society; the Constitution forbids the granting of Royal Titles by the government - which is why we have no Your Majesties, or Your Excellencies in this country. How is it that we wound up with Your Honors, which is a royal title, and we are supposed to stand when their royal personages enter a room? The psychopaths slipped that vestige of Royalty past the founding fathers, and no one noticed.

77

This is over the top, even for you.  Have you seen the inside of a Texas (or any other state) prison?  There's no one who would ever be enticed to spend any time in the State Penitentiary and lose all freedoms for 80K a year.  People who play angles are control freaks and like to know all the rules.  You just can't game the Texas criminal justice system with any assurance that you will maintain control of the outcome and  hold on to the "get-out-of-jail card."  While there are anecdotal reports that some infintesimally small # of people may commit petty crimes to be sentenced to county jails for short stints to get the benefits of 3 hots and a cot plus medical care, trust me, no one's setting themselves up to be the bottom-rack bendover boy at any of the nation's state prisons . . .

78 pforeman, I understand your position, but to serve 30 years in prison, this guy has gone through the appeals process as well, and no one saw fit to correct a mistake made by the jury.

As conservatives, we expect even mistakes will have consequences. This is one of those consequences where, if the state is jailing someone for a crime, then the state, and by extension, taxpayers, are on the hook when the process fails.

79 I agree.  This is too much money.  Let's just give him back all those years he missed instead.

Oh, wait...

80 30 Eyewitnesses are notoriously poor evidence Sorry, Tono, but that's long been a documented fact, even before Project Innocence came along. Ask any cop who's ever taken statements.

81 You disagree?

I do.  Your odd theory has at its heart the belief that jurors, both grand and trial, are malignant sadists, delighting in heaping misfortune on the innocent.

Preposterous.

I reverse your challenge, describe the idea legal system.

82 or ideal

either or

83 Easier to be a loan officer for a large bail-out bank, write lousy mortgage contracts, split commissions with shady real estate brokers and never need worry about time in the stripy hole.

Or

Repackage bundled toxic mortgages as AAA securities and trade them on the global market ...or direct sell them to rubes in Topeka.

84 One more observation. If any of us Morons had died in exactly the same way as Michael Jackson - how many of you think your doctor would be on trial for involuntary manslaughter? In other words, this is just a prosecutor trying to get away with something he normally couldn't - based purely on the dead person's fame.

85

Your odd theory has at its heart the belief that jurors, both grand and trial, are malignant sadists, delighting in heaping misfortune on the innocent.

No, juries are bodies which are being fooled daily by the legal system. A jury is not allowed to use any external reference in making its decision. As a result they become a self referential body which is always happy with its verdict - no matter how insane that verdict is. That is what happens when anything becomes self referential; it floats freely independent of reality.  If I use a ruler to measure it self it will always measure exactly one foot, regardless of how inaccurate it actually is. Juries aren't malignant they are just victimized by the system.

I reverse your challenge, describe the idea legal system.


Sure, a cooperative system, where the first side which attempts to lawyer anything automatically loses. You could immediately see which side was attempting to be deceptive. Since everything about the current system is deceptive it is very hard to see when one side or the other is lying. While not being perfect - my system would be a lot better than the current one.

By the way, lawyers claim that the current system is robust and designed to withstand liars. You assume one side is lying one way, and the other side is lying the other and you look for the truth in between. That sounds fine on the surface, but suppose that one side is telling the truth and the other side is lying. If you look for the truth in between them you will always be tilting the balance in favor of liars won't you? Once again we see a psychopathic distortion of reason in the law.

86 Oh, and by the way, they aren't theories, they are observations, I simply see things that most people miss. It comes from examining things closely - you might try that some time; it works really well.

87 And I thought I was cynical.

88 Pretty sick post.  $80 Grand a year for being in prison!?

Compared to $0.00/yr living under a bridge in a roach/crab/rat infested cardboard box, being assaulted by random insane people and preppy thugs from the burbs on Friday nights, and rousted by the cops daily, I'm not seeing where it looks so horrible.

89 this guy has gone through the appeals process as well, and no one saw fit to correct a mistake made by the jury.

The appeals process typically works with evidence presented at trial and deals with procedural faults of the lower courts.  Basically, they're usually looking to see that due process was followed, not necessarily that justice was served.

This is why what the innocence project is doing is important -- its allowing introduction of "new" evidence in cases where prior appeals didn't account for it.

90 The Innocence Project are a bunch of liars. Their goal is to stop the death penalty, lwop, and life sentences. They want us to turn into, spit, europe.

91 PA knows that his own life was not worth 80 grand a year either to himself OR to his family

92

I look at it a bit differently.  Rich folks, or folks with political power, are able to take a criminal case that they have, say a 75% chance of exoneration and turn it into not even being indicted.  Then there are some without means whose evidence might only mean a 30% chance of being found guilty and they get stuck in prison for 30 years. 

<p>

The guy should sue in Federal Court for a lot more than Texas laws allow, he'll get it.  That would probably be better than putting the judge and prosecutor in jail (the jury gets a pass they only get to hear the evidence that the judge allows and prosecutors want to present). 

93 that would be 75% chance of being found guilty

94
Let me ask you a simple question - first put yourself in the frame of mind of an intelligent evil doer then answer the question to yourself: "Wouldn't I do everything I could to be in control of a system meant to punish people like me?"

It doesn't occur to most sane people but "judge" or "prosecutor" is a perfect place for a psychopathic person to hide in society and be a psychopath to their hearts content. Rest assured the truth of that does occur to the psychopaths. If you were a psychopath wouldn't you love to be a judge - where your voice was the voice of law, where everyone had to rise when you entered the room, and where peoples lives or futures hung on your whims? Looks like a psychopaths dream world to me.

Another observation: nobody is checking to see that socially adept psychopaths are kept out of the legal system - nobody; judges and prosecutors  are never examined for signs of psychopathy.

95 Dude spent 30 years in prison. For nothing. Give him the money and shut up about it.

96 Okay, PA, this time I think you've come up with about the least likely and practical scam ever.

I mean, even if someone was enough of a dumbass to actually think they could maneuver some situation like this, how would they compare it to the profitability of one of those "harass old people on the phone" scams or stealing credit card numbers? Or something more clever if they really had the chops to pull a judicial scam?

And even if they managed to fool the courts the first time around, and then pulled off the miracle of not being stabbed and then beat the odds and get a successful appeal years later, what are the chances that it would come out that you planned it and thus are guilty of fraud?

That's kind of like "Now the only thing left for my plan to be successful is to win the lottery three times in a row!"

Good luck with that.

I'm definitely firing a Mk 1 Mod 0 "Shut Up And Pay" on this one.

97

www.fashionspaceonline.com  is one of the great resource for brand new fashionable clothing, shoes and accessories.
Here are the main products that we deal with:

 

Shoes: Nike Air Jordan, Air Force 1, Nike Air Jordan AFJ Fusion, Dunk SB, Nike Air Max, Air Shox Running Shoes, Nike Air Zoom Dunkesto, Air Yeezy, Nike Work Boots, ACG, Nike Foamposite, Gucci, Prada, Puma Ferrari, Supra, Ato Matsumoto, Lacoste, James, Kobe, Converse, Creative Recreation, CR DICOCO, Ed hardy, Evisu, Mauri, Coogi, Dsquared, Ice Cream, New Balance, Greedy Genius, Clae Shoes and Sneakers.

 

Jeans: Evisu, Gucci, Armani, Bape BBC, Red Monkey, G-Star, Levis, Diesel, Versace, Prada, Louis Vuitton, Ed Hardy, True Religion, Coogi, Christian Audigier, Affliction, Laguna Beach, Iceberg, Crown Holder, Roca wear, Dolce & Gabbana, Artful Dodger, Blac Label, Rock & Republic Jeans Shorts and Pants.

 

T-shirt: BBC, Bape, G-Star, Evisu, Coogi, Armani, LV, 5ive jungle, Akademiks, Smet, A & F, Affliction, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier, Blac Label, Polo, Lacoste, Crown Holder, Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Ecko, Gucci, Adidas, Nike, Levis T-shirts and dress shirts.

Other Accessories: Chanel, Chloe, Coach, Dior, Gucci, Fendi, LV, Juicy, Prada, D&G, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier Leather Handbag, Purse and Wallets.
Rolex, Breitlint, JACOB & CO. Cartier, Gucci, Ed Hardy Watches.
D&G, Okley, Fendi, Coach, Chanel, Gucci, Prada, Armani, Versace, Burberry, Ray.Ban, Ed hardy, Louis Vuitton, Christian Dior, Cartier Sun Glasses
Armani, CK, D&G, LV, Versace, Ed Hardy, Diesel, Gucci, polo, Prada, Puma, Versace, G-star Underwears.
Juicy, Bikini, Ed Hardy, A&F, Polo, Christian Audigier Swimming Wear, Bikini, Bathing suits.
Bape, Ed Hardy, New Era, Coogi, Gucci, New era with light, Louis Vuitton, Monster Energy Caps
DSQ, D&G, LV, Bape, Armani, Gucci, Chanel, Boss, Affliction, Versace, Ed Hardy, Christian Audigier Belts.
Welcome to contact us by MSN: babydress898@hotmail.com .Thanks!

98 Wow I've read some dumb shit of conservative blogs but this takes the cake. Did someone fuck you in the skull?

99 I got myself in this joint 'cause I have info that the REAL killa is in here.