1 as we all knew it would be...

2
The best course of action the govt can take is...

1. Stop "fixing" things.
2. Get the fuck out of the way and allow the free market to get us back to Equilibrium.

3 It's almost as if they are only interested in getting as many people as possible on the gummint dole.

Peasants are so obedient when they know the Lords of the Manor can starve their children if they get out of line.

4 Bernanke will announce a new effort to sell our bonds to Greece. Hey, it's so crazy it might work. Krugman would probably approve.

5 IMO its not even primarily the spending and taxes choking the economy. Its unfunded mandates -cough OBAMACARE cough, government red tape, and allowing the luddites and commies to use lawfare to thwart what makes it through those gauntlets that will continue to keep this economy anemic. Well if our corporate and small business tax rates are higher than most of the world that is hurting us too, but if we don't get some relief from the first two things fixing the taxes and direct government spending cannot be enough.

6 Fed's Monetary-Policy Stimulus Mostly A Failure, Economists Say —Ace

 

No shit? 

1 as we all knew it would be...   Except Ace.  One of the two times I can think of that he's been dead fucking wrong.  Which is my moron way of saying Ace is almost always right.

7 Brit Hume just said if the elections wer held today, Scooter would lose. Juan took umbrage, so Hume depantsed him. A beautiful thing.

8 Disband the EPA.

Build 100 new nuclear power plants.

Drill everywhere in America there is oil.

9

About that near-supermajority.

10 "Bernacke will publicly explain/defend his policies on Wednesday." Yeah right,as if he is accountable to anyone.

11

The possibly good news for those of this mindset: That pretty much only leaves some combination of cutting spending and possibly cutting taxes as the untried and yet-unproven-to-have-failed option.

 

You've failed to take into account the large segent of the elite who think the reason it didn't work is because it wasn't large enough.

 

I say that's only possibly good news because 1) that could never happen until 2012, assuming all things work out for us politically (including winning a near-supermajority in the Senate), which means at least another two years of economic misery, and

 

No supermajority of mere REPUBLICANS is going to get this done.  We need a supermajority of CONSERVATIVES, which will never, ever happen.

 

2) the recession's resistance to other conventional responses suggest it might be resistant to all responses, including the conservative ones.

 

Don't doubt conservative solutions.  They work every time they're tried.

12

Some chillbilly from Alaska said that in Nov 2010 that QE2 will fail and will create inflation.

13 Can anyone point to an example where a steadily declining currency works out well?

When the QE happens when energy prices are already under pressure, guess what the bump in the price of energy is going to do?  Dampen the economy.

Which is more depressing:

1.  Bernanke doesn't know this.
2.  Bernanke knows this but is just bailing water in the hopes a miracle happens.
3.  He's lying.

14
Juan Williams believes his own dick is sexually harassing him at night.

15 Unfortunately, there really is no good news. China announced today that they now are holding approximately 3 trillion in US debt and that is way too much. They plan to reduce their holdings to approximately 1 trillion which means not only will they be flooding the world market with another 2 trillion but they likely won't be buying any new debt in meaningful amounts. So who buys are debt now? Does this mean a QE3 and a further debasement of our currency? Or does he stop the QEs and watch interest rates go through the roof? Bernanke's press conference this week should be instructive as to which poison he chooses but no matter which, we are going to be in a world of hurt.

16 8: Juan is a cartoon character. Obama could walk onto the news set and perform a human sacrifice and Juan would applaud.

Juan Williams has two settings:

Kiss Obama's Ass
Full on Worship

17

Posted by: palerider at April 24, 2011 11:49 AM (cQZV0)

So true.

18 Ace wasn't for QE,he was for the original bailout and has since (long since) reconsidered.

19 Think about this one for a moment:

How screwed up is NPR that we were on Juan Williams' side?

20

Hmmm.... Girlfriend words for a Construction company, where they were just hit with three new Regulations from OSHA, which will force them to hire another payroll person just to do the paperwork associated with those regulations... and as this is just an added Friction to the system, they will need to lay off one full time person who was actualy doing productive work.

For every gain in efficiency the Economy makes, the Government creates an artificial drag on it through regulation.

21 Soros has Destroy the Dollar on a list right after Destroy America.

The twisted old nazi won't be happy until he makes it happen.

22 Any solution that causes little or no effect on the political class is one that will not work. Solutions that will work will cause great political, social, and economic upheavals. That is why politicians will not mention them.

23 21 And the trial lawyers get new grist for their mill.Everyone wins!Err no.

24 22 Destroying the dollar will destroy America,as we've known it anyway.

25 Given Soros' currency piracy in the past, who here thinks he is treating the dollar any differently?  The other old degenerate codger from Nebraska is already shorting it.

26 I don't know as I'd call it a failure, it succeeded in devaluing the US Dollar.

27 21:

More attempts to force all construction to be union. Unions can afford to have lots and lots of slack-jawed cubical mice to process all the government paperwork. That is, if unions are the only game in town.

Small, private construction companies and tradesmen can't work all day and do paperwork all night at the dinner table. And scum like O'Trumka know it.

28

It's nice to see that you consider two more years of economic misery as bad.

(No sarc there. It shouldn't be nice. I shouldn't even notice that, let alone remark on it. But after hearing someone say in early 2003 that his greatest fear was that the Iraq operation would go well resulting in Bush looking good, I've stopped taking other people's mindsets for granted. Thanks for deeming people's misery as bad.)

29 Disband the EPA.

Build 100 new nuclear power plants.

Drill everywhere in America there is oil.

Posted by: sifty at April 24, 2011 11:55 AM (+cmP9)

Listening to the radio on the way to work this morning, a discussion of the energy potential in Ohio/Pennsylvania. The guest said that the current estimate is that if only 5% of the Utica Shale Deposit were tapped it would yield 5 billion barrels of oil and 15 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

30 There is no inflation, the i-Pad prices are proof of this. Even if there IS inflation, and I'm not saying there is, it's "transitory" anyway, and oil prices will come down as soon as Holder wipes his ass with the Constitution and dreams up a few bogus indictments against minor league speculators.

I still have a beard don't I? All Jewish guys with gray beards are infallible geniuses, and don't you forget it!

31 Bernanke is my bitch.

32 I know what will work. Double gas and food prices. Well at least that's what you're gonna get bitches. Get a job at McDonalds. Get to punch white people.

33

You know what is sort of like the invisible hand?

The ironclad law that governments will always fuck over the private sector to one degree or another.

This is why the people of the world benefit from a good, bloody revolution every now and again.

34 17 8: Juan is a cartoon character. Obama could walk onto the news set and perform a human sacrifice and Juan would applaud.

Juan Williams has two settings:

Kiss Obama's Ass
Full on Worship
  And that's exactly how Fox wants it. Gotta give folks the asinine view.

35 On a lighter note, scientists have found proof that women are supposed to cook for us:  God filled them with milk and eggs.

36 Our children and grandchildren will suffer for our crimes and neglect. We were warned about creeping Socialism.

37

Timmy - "I think you shot the Invisible Hand!"

Ben - "How was I supposed to kow he was there?!"

Barky - "...You'd think he'd be thanking me?"

38 31:

But, because it will take fie years to get, the filthy hiptards don't want us to start it.

Tapping an additional 15 billion barrels of oil through new wells and all the billions of barrels in shale would take away the hiptards' greatest weapon against the Western Way of Life.

Scarcity of Oil is the greatest weapon the Left has ever had.

39 BONED!

China Proposes To Cut Two Thirds Of Its $3 Trillion In USD Holdings

40 Scarcity of Oil is the greatest weapon the Left has ever had.

Ditto weird Middle Eastern tribes and the nitwit in Caracas.

41 Has anyone else come to the conclusion that oil is not a finite resource?  That it's renewable in short timeframes?  That we just need to find or build a microbe that turns trees or something into oil?

42 North America alone has hydrocarbon resources that will last for centuries. Sadly, the Communists here have great power.

43 QE4 will be written in pencil on cardboard.

It will have recipes for hobo on the back.

44 It's easy, in principle, to anticipate the next move of the Fed and Treasury. It's whatever brings the most profit to Goldman Sachs. The trick with crony capitalism is knowing who the cronies are. Here's one remarkable thing about the titanic incompetence and fecklessness of people like Barry. While they may think they are creating some sort of incipient socialism or post-modern compassionate synthesis of markets and social justice, they are doing nothing but fooling themselves. There is little programmatic about Barry's efforts. All he has done is make seedy crony capitalism ten times as pervasive as anything before. It's now all about being in bed with the State. GE, GM, Chrysler, B of A, Golden SlacksÂ… first in line at the gubmint trough to get favors and influence legislation to hamper competitors. Throw in the big pharmas and insurance companies who saw a mandated customer base for all eternity with Obamacare, and thus supported its passage. Think of the investors drooling to get at funds or tax credits to subsidize favored industries like freaking wind turbines and CFL bulbs (back to GE again). It's not so much socialism creeping into DC as it is Chicago style corruption on a trillion dollar scale.

45 The problem with government (read: "artificial") stimulus is that everyone KNOWS it is artificial and thus no one makes long term investments based upon it.  Once one stimulus plan runs out of money, everyone stops spending/investing as they anticipate the next stimulus program to come along.

You see, liberals (most of whom have no real world business experience) don't understand the concept of reactionary behavior.  Liberals believe that if you increase tax rates (on the 'rich' presumably), the behavior of the rich will not change and thus, you will raise additional revenues - historical precedent notwithstanding.  However, if you tax 'the rich' (read: "business owners") more and thus reduce their ROI, their behavior DOES change.  As a matter of fact, this has been proven to ALWAYS be true.  Thus liberals in acting as if it is not true are either complete idiots, or they know exactly what they are doing and their intent is nefarious.

Since liberals derive their power from government dependency and one can always assume that a person will act in their own best interest, then their sole purpose in their tax policy is not to increase individual prosperity but instead government dependency.

Liberalism springs not from a big heart or a desire to help the downtrodden.  Liberalism springs from a sense of intellectual superiority.  Since the masses are obviously too stupid to care for themselves, it is the job of our liberal masters to take our wealth and distribute it as they deem fit, with of course, them in charge.  If this reminds you of Communist Russia, it should.  That is the end game.

This is how Barack Obama can burn over 50,000 gallons of fuel on a campaign stop on Earth Day, play golf more than any other president before him and take multi-million dollar vacations on the taxpayers dime while giving speeches about "shared-sacrifice".  To the liberal this is not hypocrisy, this is how things should be because after all, they are superior.  When they say shared sacrifice they do not include themselves in the equation because they are the ruling class.  Sacrifice is for the commoners.

46 Obama could walk onto the news set and perform a human sacrifice and Juan would applaud.

LOL, sifty!  I always tune in to FNS just to watch Juan bring on teh stoopid.  He is truly hilarious, and I love few things better in life than the little condescending smirk Bill Cristal gets on his face whenever Juan is doing an especially good job of it.

47 Oil: The Earth is still makin' it, dickheads.

Going to get a version of that on a sticker for the commute.

48 44 North America alone has hydrocarbon resources that will last for centuries.

Sadly, the Communists here have great power. Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 24, 2011 12:10 PM

The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!
The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!
The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!
The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!
The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!

49 Glad I can survive off the land, think the barter system will come back?

50
"That pretty much only leaves some combination of"   taxing the rich, and then taxing those evil bastards more.  Problem solved.

51 Whoops, Kristol

52 43 Has anyone else come to the conclusion that oil is not a finite resource?  That it's renewable in short timeframes?  That we just need to find or build a microbe that turns trees or something into oil?

IIRC, there is already working being done to engineer microbes that consume waste and excrete oils.  Not sure how advanced that research is now though. 

53 Has anyone else come to the conclusion that oil is not a finite resource? That it's renewable in short timeframes? That we just need to find or build a microbe that turns trees or something into oil? Posted by: Truman North at April 24, 2011 12:10 PM (8ay4x) It is irrelevant. Hydrocarbon resources will last for hundreds of years. We have no obligation to solve the energy problems of people 10 generations in the future. Scarcity of oil is not the only planted destructive meme at work these days.

54 Some chillbilly from Alaska said that in Nov 2010 that QE2 will fail and will create inflation.

Yeah, and that crazy chick thinks we ought to drill, baby, drill and expand domestic production of oil, coal, and build more nooklear plants.

When she becomes president, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh.

55 Personally I think we're headed towards collapse. Maybe that'll ultimately be a Good Thing, maybe not. A lot of it is intentional, from the far Left fringeworthy types agitating for overthrow to Communism, and probably there are Parties Abroad who would be interested in seeing the "last superpower" broken up into smaller, manageable chunks a la Yugoslavia. And then there are financiers like Soros who expect to cash in big when the pinata busts open, and the terrorists who all along have targeted our economy.

Why "Good" though? In recent history Collapses have always gone Right, not Left. If its more a break-up thing then the resulting Republics can pursue whatever economic agendas they like and I expect the result will be 3-4 economic powerhouses.

56

You guys think Palin is going to run for president?  I don't know...

It's weird.  The field seems to be holding its powder until she gets in the race.  But I don't know whether she's gonna.

57 Oil: The Earth is still makin' it, dickheads.

Going to get a version of that on a sticker for the commute.

Posted by: sifty at April 24, 2011 12:12 PM (+cmP9)

While you're at it, invent an automotive paint job that electrocutes anyone who tries to drag a key along it.

58 I wonder if China might be persuaded not to sell off a trillion dollars worth by giving them some of our military secrets. Just in the name of friendship, I mean.

59 56:

Ditto.

There isn't enough pudding in California for all my dipping.

I will walk on my wife's set and dip on stage.

60 The USA only has 2 percent of the world's reserves!

This is true since the current map of where we can drill consists of that point over there off the vast Alabama coastline.

61 Welcome to the DOOM bus, Ace. There's lots of room left. Cuz we all just huddle in a back corner and whimper. No need to go under the bus; it's plenty scary on the inside.
 
We lose in 2012 and there is no way back. Fini. Game over, man.

62 I'm on the side that thinks all this running for Prez 18 months out is total bs.

63 It's weird.  The field seems to be holding its powder until she gets in the race.  But I don't know whether she's gonna.


Fired up and ready to go.

64 I'm on the side that thinks all this running for Prez 18 months out is total bs.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at April 24, 2011 12:17 PM (neqDo)

Deserved repeating.

65 If Sarah runs she'll win, gotta believe.

66 If Holder does pull some charges against speculators, they'll be small players with no pull. Soros and Goldman Sachs won't be touched.

So if speculation was driven out, odds are pretty good that supplies would be severely affected. Morons over 45 might remember the good old gas lines under Jimmah's clusterfuck regime

67 58:

My 4x4 is already scratched to shit from rocks and mesquite and palo verde trees. See, I actually use it for what it was intended for. Not like the rest of these SoCal douchenozzles in $80,000 custom trucks that have never even been on gravel.

They can key my truck if they want. They just better pray to Gaia-Gore I am nowhere nearby.

68 Sarah Palin can't be a good President because her voice is too screechy. And whoever heard of reversing shortages by increasing output? That's just crazee talk.

69 I noticed that gas was $3.61 at Kroger this morning guess we're kind of lucky here on the Gulf.

70 I'm on the side that thinks all this running for Prez 18 months out is total bs.

Yup. 

71 Tonight we're going to party like it's 1979!

72 If they would just put a moratorium on environmental lawsuits, cut regulations, and cut taxes this plane would come out of the nosedive.

Nobody steers something into the ground this straight unless they are aiming for a target. Obama and Co have a target.

73 Bills don't win the Super Bowl, logprof says.

74 One station about ten minutes from me has premium at $5.11 per gallon.

75 I say that's only possibly good news because 1) that could never happen until 2012, assuming all things work out for us politically (including winning a near-supermajority in the Senate), which means at least another two years of economic misery, [...]

Nonsense. This year, as the House, Senate and Obama consider and negotiate the budget they are putting together for 2012, The Senate / Obama says, "We have to spend oodles of money." House says, "No, we only want to spend half of oodles." Senate / Obama says, "You better do it, or the government will shutdown." House says, "Let it shut." After the shutdown, Senate / Obama says, "We have to reopen the government and start spending oodles again." House says, "We can reopen it, but we are only going to spend half of oodles." Senate / Obama says, "No, we have to spend full oodles, or no deal." House says, "OK, we keep it shut down and spending nothing." And back and forth it goes until the Senate / Obama come up with a deal that the House is willing to sign onto.

We do not need to wait for another election to gain the power. It is within our grasp now.

76 72 Almost $1 billion in campaign spending is also crazy.Obama will do it,again.

77

We lose in 2012 and there is no way back. Fini. Game over, man.

Even if "we" win, the Boners of the world will still screw us.

There's no coming back from this shit.

78

Posted by: sifty at April 24, 2011 12:19 PM (+cmP9)

Hang on, are you teeling me that people who drive a Cadillac EXT don't actually haul anything with it?

The deuce you say!

79 Almost $1 billion in campaign spending is also crazy.Obama will do it,again.

He's already doing it.  Two of the fundraisers in CA a few days ago had a $38,500 a plate buy-in.  \o/

80 I'm on the side that thinks all this running for Prez 18 months out is total bs. Yup. Posted by: Peaches at April 24, 2011 12:21 PM (vKHX/) Agree. Some say it provides good vetting. Meh. I say it is an exercise in obscuring the facts. It gives the manipulators time to construct a web of bs. Six months is more than enough time.

81

Posted by: kbdabear at April 24, 2011 12:19 PM (vdfwz)

Read an interesting article about Oil Futures, and it seems that only abou 2% of the trades on the market lead to Delivered Oil.

Sooo... why is there an oil futures market?

Its like the Stock Market... it started out as a way for small investors to buy a piece of a company, to invest in its future earnings... now its a Huge virtual Vegas with shorts sells, and Computer trades....

We, as an economy, really need to take a look at WHAT our markets are for... because there is a lot of money trading hands, which does nothing productive.

82 80,

They haul drunks, murderers, thieves and crackheads in those caddies.

83 Yeah, the GOP vetted Obama like a teenage boy vets the girl who gives him his first bj.

84 What we need now is compromise.

I have a signed document here from Lord Presidente Mullah Obama that promises that he will consider spending cuts in 2035.


It's the best we could do.

85 >>Yeah, the GOP vetted Obama like a teenage boy vets the girl who gives him his first bj. First?

86 So if speculation was driven out, odds are pretty good that supplies would be severely affected. Morons over 45 might remember the good old gas lines under Jimmah's clusterfuck regime

Posted by: kbdabear at April 24, 2011 12:19 PM (vdfwz)

Had a business line of credit at the time. Interest went to 23% overnight. Damn near bankrupted me. I was eating Maalox in the place of meals.

87 85,

Oh Peaches I soooo love it when you are religious.

88

The world is running out of oil!

The world is also running out of geothermal energy and angular velocity! And the sun is running out of precious hydrogen! PEAK SOLAR!!

89 >>We lose in 2012 and there is no way back. Fini. Game over, man.

The finality of how Boned we are can be summed up in a simple declarative sentence: Barack Obama is the last President of the USA as we knew it.

Do the P Noonan thing and savor that.

/oh, and Happy Easter.

90 Hawaii Average Premium Gas Hits $4.708, As Nationwide Pump Prices Jump By 30 Cents In A Month

Repeat after me;

Energy prices are transitory
Energy prices are transitory
Energy prices are transitory

91 Six months is more than enough time.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 24, 2011 12:25 PM (I6Oc6)

--Canada is doing it in just a couple months.  Problem is, they do it more often here.

92 Energy prices are transitory

Posted by: Ben Bernanke at April 24, 2011 12:29 PM (vdfwz)

And Don't Affect Inflation!

93 I knew a guy once so PO that he used to shoot bluejays for his supper, true.

94 If you thought the MBM jumped the shark during its coverage of the 2008 race, 2012 will have them jumping all seven seas. Do you think they will let the first Preznit of Historically Significant Skin Color lose? There's still an ocean of turbulent white liberal guilt whose waters need oiling. BP wasn't enough.

95 75 Bills don't win the Super Bowl, logprof says.

Posted by: logprof at April 24, 2011 12:22 PM (BP6Z1)

HEY. No need to get nasty on Easter man. NO. NEED.

96 51 Glad I can survive off the land, think the barter system will come back?

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at April 24, 2011 12:12 PM (neqDo)

Country boys can survive bro

97

74 If they would just put a moratorium on environmental lawsuits, cut regulations, and cut taxes this plane would come out of the nosedive.

The President has told us the plane has come out of the nosedive, and I for one am going to take him at his word.

98 These solutions are working. I know because if libs want something to work, its works...

99

We shouldn't worry about the Hidden Hand of the market, but the Hidden Foot that is going to kick our ass for what we did to our parents' and grandparents great nation.

We actually voluntarily elected, by a clear majority, an Anti-American hypersocialist and a Congress and Senate full of criminals and communists.

Now we don't want to cut the government down to size and borrow more inflated money.

Fuck it, it's over. Just grab a beer and stock up the pantry.

100 A few handy charts;

National Avg price

Avg price by state

101 Energy prices are transitory, but open market operations are forever.

102 The USA is like a guy in a doctor's office. Dr. A says, "Your foot is gangrenous and I must amputate it to save your life." Dr B says, "I have magic urine, and will piss on your foot and you will be cured." The USA is looking back and forth at each doctor, still deciding.

103 Honey Badger Jr. just woke up.

My wife and I are going to go let him find some eggs I hid this morning in the wee ours.

We'll try not to think about the fact he may be forced to join an underground group of rebel American Patriots in order to eat and survive by age 15.

Or, best case, he'll be paying off Obama's wagyu burgers and cocaine until he's 70.

104

Country boys can survive bro

Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at April 24, 2011 12:32 PM (6IReR)

I got a shotgun, rifle and a four wheel drive...

105 ...We've tried all of the usual government interventions to wake the economy up and they've all failed...

All of the usual governmental interventions, but certainly not all possible governmental interventions.   What about ... regulatory relaxation, including "carbon" regulation; reducing spending, including said quantitative easing and 'stimulus', a word which should always be in scare quotes; reducing business taxes to competitive international levels; renouncing and rescinding ObamaCare; telling states the fed won't bail them (and their union defined benefit pensions and other extravagant benefits) out so they'd better get their own house in order; announcing that more money will be left in the hands of all the people, including those filthy rich ones; or at least announcing that current tax levels will be maintained for the foreseeable future, or at least as permanently as any government policy can be.

106 103 Energy prices are transitory...........................but my beard is well-trimmed.

Posted by: Ben Bernanke at April 24, 2011 12:35 PM (AZGON)

107

I got a shotgun, rifle and a four wheel drive...

Posted by: ErikW at April 24, 2011 12:35 PM (+u1kK)

What are you going to put into the gas tank, clarified possum fat?

108 96 If you thought the MBM jumped the shark during its coverage of the 2008 race, 2012 will have them jumping all seven seas. Do you think they will let the first Preznit of Historically Significant Skin Color lose? There's still an ocean of turbulent white liberal guilt whose waters need oiling. BP wasn't enough. Posted by: George Orwell at April 24, 2011 12:31 PM

I always look at whom the MBM's new BFF in the GOP party is. That's the one they're sure will lose to the JEF if nominated.

109 106:
we can skin a buck, we can ru a trout line, and a country boy can survive

110 106,

Only have one 4x4, but have lots of shootin' sticks and plenty of food to put in them all flavors.

111

You guys think Palin is going to run for president? I don't know...

It's weird. The field seems to be holding its powder until she gets in the race. But I don't know whether she's gonna.

 

You're about to see an earthquake when she announces that she is running. There is something cooking.

112

What are you going to put into the gas tank, clarified possum fat?

Posted by: TexasJew at April 24, 2011 12:38 PM (uR5Zf)

I plan on rendering down Mikey Moore. I'll be set for life.

113 109,

I have a siphoning hose to hit the gubmint vehicles.

114 we can ru a trout line

That's trotline, home

115 Never ran a trout line, but many mr. catfish and the occasional turtle were caught on my trotlines, trout are so dumb they can be scooped in a net.

116 On February 1, 2006, President Bush appointed Bernanke to a fourteen-year term as a member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, and to a four-year term as Chairman.




Ya!   We're helping!

117 we can skin a buck, we can ru a trout line, and a country boy can survive

Posted by: sifty at April 24, 2011 12:39 PM (+cmP9)

First song I learned on guitar in Dropped D.

118 Diesel prices are always about 30 cents a gallon above regular, and the produce, grains, and meat can't take the bus. There are no plug-in hybrid semis.

Add to that commodity inflation jacking up grocery prices and the boning becomes a gang-bang

119 33 Bernanke is my bitch.

Posted by: The Invisible Hand at April 24, 2011 12:05 PM (LBSBy)

thread winner!

120

The solution is unpleasant and agonizing, but we're going to have to kick up interest rates, take a major recession hit, slash business taxes and kick up production (NOT consumption) and build up our savings and accept a sort of high-end second world existence for years.

All the malinvestments and bullshit socialism is going to have to be squared and then go away.

Without it, we will have acurrency crisis that will permanently flatten us for decades, if not forever.

 

121 http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=2469

energy densities and generation explained just in time for you to demolish your prog sister-in-law at dinner today

122 Hell we can't even use a cast net from shore anymore (I always catch my own bait), boat is still ok, why, I have no idea but if it's enviro wackos I'll shoot them on sight!

123 Add to that commodity inflation jacking up grocery prices and the boning becomes a gang-bang Posted by: kbdabear at April 24, 2011 12:47 PM (vdfwz) A lot more folks will be eating a lot more beans. Stay out of elevators.

124 Shit, people aren't getting fooled anymore with smaller packages for the same price. Even our appeal to "Smaller packaging is good because it's green" schtick got us a big fuck you.

How about "How high food prices are beneficial because they're curing America's Obesity Epidemic"

Winner!!!

125 Anorexia is the new black!

126 122 You're right.Sadly, I know which option the American electorate will opt for.

127 128 122 You're right.Sadly, I know which option the American electorate will opt for.

Posted by: steevy at April 24, 2011 12:51 PM (GpllT)

Well, then. External forces will cure it for us.

They're sharpening the knives already.

128 The collapse of Syria and the resulting general ME War will not affect prices on anything.

129 I always look at whom the MBM's new BFF in the GOP party is.

It is looking to be the libertarian dude, Gary Johnson.  There was an article on Slate about him.  The liberal commenters there were actually saying things like "you know, he's not half-bad - I like that he's not one of those wingnut social conservative morons" - so you can bet they'll push him.  It also plays into the MBM meme that there is a "rift" between the libertarian-esque Tea Party and the old-school social conservatives.

130

Government intervention = liberty kill. Liberty kill = death to the economy.

Death to the economy = collapse the system.

131 The goals of Usama will be met by Obama.

132 What the JEF and Helicopter Ben are counting on is the population getting accustomed to rising prices as long as it's not catastrophic like Weimar Germany

The Fed HAS to go QE-3 and QE-4 to keep the stock market and discount window for the banks pumped up. Any rush out of the stock market or raise in interest rates will be an immediate nasty jolt rather than the slow pain

The public sector pension funds need the stock market to stay in a bubble in order to keep the pretense that investment returns of 8 percent alone will fund the pensions, no pain required

133 Posted by: dr kill at April 24, 2011 12:49 PM (le5qc)

umm, that article is a bit pseudo-sciencey, it doesn't quite have the science right - the fundamental idea is sound, that there are fundamental limitations to the amount of energy we can acquire from any one source, but the article makes a few errors

134 My dogs can spot a squirrel from a great distance. The ones around here feed mostly on sunflower seed, pet food and bird eggs. I'm starting to get partial to them.

135

Well, then. External forces will cure it for us.

They're sharpening the knives already.

Posted by: TexasJew at April 24, 2011 12:52 PM (uR5Zf)

Yep. Economic forces will eventually have their way, regardless of what the public wants. No butter AND no guns.

136

Romeo13 @ #83: Let me take a stab at what you said. (I'm not an expert on these matters, so I may be way off. These are my impressions.)

>> Read an interesting article about Oil Futures, and it seems that only about 2% of the trades on the market lead to Delivered Oil.

That doesn't surprise me. A similar number could be applied to coffee, corn and (no kidding) frozen orange juice concentrate.

>> Sooo... why is there an oil futures market?

To set the price of oil. It's based on predictions of supply and demand in the future. Those other 98% of transactions adjust the future price up and down accordingly for contracts for deliveries. The only other market-based option I can think of would be for producers and refiners to use an ever-fluctuating spot price for oil. Not only would we not want that, but we don't need to deal with that because crude oil is a commodotized product.

>> It's like the Stock Market... it started out as a way for small investors to buy a piece of a company, to invest in its future earnings... now its a Huge virtual Vegas with shorts sells, and Computer trades....

If only it were like Vegas. I'd love to sit at the $100 black jack table where I could by card options for $5 apiece. When I get two 10s, I could give the dealer two $5 chips and tell him I might like to split my hand. His deals a 3 on my first hand and a 5 on my second. Though I could hit or freeze on my 13 and on my 15, I'd just say, "Consider my options out of the money. I'll hold on 20."

>> We, as an economy, really need to take a look at WHAT our markets are for... because there is a lot of money trading hands, which does nothing productive.

I don't mean to come across as snarky, but that sounds like the Julia Roberts character from Pretty Woman. Our system is called capitalism because it's based on capital. Not basic resources, not gold or silver or wampum, and not the exchange of finished goods. All of those things become part of our economy through capital.

The trouble in comprehending this is that capital, at its root, is an idea. It's similar to the freedom and the God-given rights which form the intangible bases of our legal system. You can't see liberty, but you know what it is and you know it's valuable. It doesn't work perfectly all the time, but like our system of justice, it's the best system yet devised.

I take it not one of those people decrying "unfettered capitalism" -- but the more I learn about markets, the more I come to believe that more fettering always makes things worse for people like you and me. As to what markets are for, it's to set prices for stuff. It's that simple. It's just that sometimes we don't like those prices. Right?

137 Japan called. They want their "lost decade" back.

138 Yes, this is the same guy we ran in 2008;

McCain: Libyan rebels seek U.S. recognition, might pay for war costs

139 The public sector pension funds need the stock market to stay in a bubble in order to keep the pretense that investment returns of 8 percent alone will fund the pensions, no pain required

Posted by: kbdabear at April 24, 2011 12:58 PM (vdfwz)

Bloomberg was on FoxNews Sunday and seemed to feel that more illegal immigrants given citizenship and paying taxes would  fill that nonfunded entitlement void. Kinda like Germany and the Turkish immigrants. We all know how that turned out. He's a real dumbass for a rich guy.

140

It is looking to be the libertarian dude, Gary Johnson.  There was an article on Slate about him.  The liberal commenters there were actually saying things like "you know, he's not half-bad - I like that he's not one of those wingnut social conservative morons" - so you can bet they'll push him. 

They just like his position on weed.

I always laugh at people who try to describe themselves as a left wing libertarian.  While Libertarians (the real ones) might lean left or be agnostic on some social / defense issues, on fiscal and government policy they're the completely opposite from the left.

141 143 I hate him very much.Not as much as Odumbass but very much.

142 Posted by: dr kill at April 24, 2011 12:49 PM (le5qc) umm, that article is a bit pseudo-sciencey, it doesn't quite have the science right - the fundamental idea is sound, that there are fundamental limitations to the amount of energy we can acquire from any one source, but the article makes a few errors Posted by: chemjeff at April 24, 2011 12:59 PM (7mSYS) Yep, many boo-boos.

143 McCain: Libyan rebels seek U.S. recognition, might pay for war costs
Posted by: kbdabear at April 24, 2011 01:08 PM

It's possible might get a blowjob from Natalie Portman too, but I'm not actually counting on it

144 147,

Never had one from an accomplished ballet dancer.

145

Well, then. External forces will cure it for us.

They're sharpening the knives already.

Posted by: TexasJew at April 24, 2011 12:52 PM (uR5Zf)

Oh noes! We'll hafta get the UN over in Michigan becuz Bob in the UP is gonna be selling Nukes on the blackmarket to Canada!!!!!1!

/NPR told us so

146

I take it not one of those people decrying "unfettered capitalism" -- but the more I learn about markets, the more I come to believe that more fettering always makes things worse for people like you and me. As to what markets are for, it's to set prices for stuff. It's that simple. It's just that sometimes we don't like those prices. Right?

Part of the problem is that the risk/reward scheme is a bit screwed up.  The margin rate on commodities like oil is so low (compared to stocks) that a relatively small monetary risk on the part of a speculator and have a disproportionately high impact. 

I'm generally opposed to mucking with the free markets too much, but I wouldn't mind seeing the minimum margin rates on oil raised such that a $1 investment isn't buying $15 worth of oil contracts.

147

Hmmm.... Girlfriend words for a Construction company, where they were just hit with three new Regulations from OSHA, which will force them to hire another payroll person just to do the paperwork associated with those regulations... and as this is just an added Friction to the system, they will need to lay off one full time person who was actualy doing productive work.

For every gain in efficiency the Economy makes, the Government creates an artificial drag on it through regulation.

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 24, 2011 11:59 AM (NtXW4)

This is part of the reason why I bash lawyers. It isn't that the lawyers in OSHA don't know that this will require unnecessary labor.  They know that.  But to a lawyer, tedious paperwork IS productive work. No matter how much paperwork there is, it's just more billable hours.

Lawyers don't even work in the area of profit and loss, they work in the area of billable hours. It's like a parasite worrying about where the host gets its next meal. Trust me, it doesn't.

148 Never had one from an accomplished ballet dancer.


Hey, what part of Natalie Portman don't you get?

149

What amazes me is the depth and breadth of the stupid things that
Washington is doing instead of getting the economy going through reduced regulation and lower taxation. It's almost as though no one up there has read any economic history, or if the have, they can't seem to understand it.

Casinos? Legalizing pot and then regulating it? A "service oriented economy?" WTF?

Our greatest period of prosperity was when we made our own stuff and sold the excess to others. Since we no longer do that, we've been in a steady and increasingly steep dive towards the ground.

All of the efforts of The Vapid One© and his merry band of Marxists have done is speed up their destruction of our once-proud and self-sustaining nation.

Let's try this idea out: Fuck the rest of the world for a while, let's concentrate on getting out of the ditch. Let's get our asses in gear and take command of Washington. Start by getting a true conservative in the White House, someone on  the order of Col. West (I know he's not running, I'm just using him as an example of the type of person who should be there) and get a supermajority in Congress. Then we can start carving this monstrous federal beast down to a manageable size.

Repeal O'Care, the Porkulus, the Wall Street takeover, pass a national right-to-work law, eliminate the EPA, DOE, Education Dept, through the use of a zero-based federal budget process where each agency must justify its existence every single year. Start drilling and consructing nooklear plants and oil refineries from sea to shining sea. Sell every square inch of federally owned land so we can mine our own land. Make it a national prority for America to have the highest standard of living in the world.

Muzzies want the middle East? Let them have it. We'll isolate them and let them live the the self-inflicted squalor that they seem so intent to force upon the rest of the world. We wouldn't need them nor their oil if we had access to our own, and they can implode. China and Russia would be on alert that as long as they leave us alone, we leave them alone. The first time they step out of line, well, they'll wish they hadn't.

Only by withdrawing from this bullshit of a "global everything" will we survive. The rest of  the world hates us, just like in high school, where the smart kids were generally hated and made fun of. We are different and unique because we are free. Why be ashamed of that just because some tin-pot dictator in a third-world shithole where his people have to eat grass says so?

There's a storm coming...

150 I always laugh at people who try to describe themselves as a left wing libertarian.  While Libertarians (the real ones) might lean left or be agnostic on some social / defense issues, on fiscal and government policy they're the completely opposite from the left.

But if you read, say Reason, They don't really give a damn about fiscal and government policy. Oh, sure, they'll make noises occasionally, but what gets their dander up is drugs, specifically pot.

151 116: I got hi-falootin for a minute and screwed up the pronunciation.

Happens all the time.

152

But if you read, say Reason, They don't really give a damn about fiscal and government policy. Oh, sure, they'll make noises occasionally, but what gets their dander up is drugs, specifically pot.

I do read Reason; that's not true at all.

The pro-legalization threads no doubt get a lot of comments, but the legalization / drug policy stuff represents a pretty small proportion of what they publish.

153

Part of the problem is that the risk/reward scheme is a bit screwed up. ... I'm generally opposed to mucking with the free markets too much, but I wouldn't mind seeing the minimum margin rates on oil raised such that a $1 investment isn't buying $15 worth of oil contracts.

Yeah, I know -- and me, too. It's just that there's always something that's screwed up whenever people are involved. People will always game the best ideas so that the intent of those ideas doesn't get totally implemented in practice.

All in all, I'd say that the best thing to do most of the time is just accept a system or a situation that doesn't work out for me all the time. I don't like gas at $4 a gallon, but that's the price. (And personally, I'd rather see the sign say "$10.00" then "NO GAS.")

154 The bad news: We've tried all of the usual government interventions to wake the economy up and they've all failed.

Spurring the economy was just the public reason for QE.  The real reason is foreigners don't want US debt any more.  The Fed has been purchasing 70% of US sovereign debt issue this year.

They're printing money for the same reason governments always print money - we aren't taking in enough revenue to pay our expenses.  QE should really be seen for what it is:  a tax on savers.

buying federal debt with freshly-printed dollars -- yeah, my mind loses the plot with that double-abstraction too

It's really no different than what happens when you take out a home loan.  You might think the bank lends you money other people have deposited, but that's not what happens.  They just assign your loan documents a value and create the your money out of thin air.  In a double accounting sense nothing changes, since there's an asset in the credit side and a payment in the debit side.  But the money that got created circulates in the economy.  As you pay the loan back it gets destroyed a little bit at a time.

That's why interest rates affect the amount of outstanding dollars, and why high interest rates curb inflation - people are less likely to borrow money, and that means there's less money in circulation.

In theory as the bonds are paid off the QE money will get destroyed as well.  But you and I and everyone else knows they're going to be paid off with yet more debt, and that's why nobody wants to hold dollars right now.

155

QE2 is a serious issue, Bernanke and his cohoots don't even know what they are doing...I' been a banker for 25 years and I know what they did is not going to work. 

156 On the government market-intervention theme, there's this item in the Ft. Wayne Journal-Gazette on the Administration's GM stock stake  (LINK):

Excerpt:

GM has dropped 19 percent this year in New York trading and 9.3 percent from its initial public offering price. While the Treasury may be willing to take a loss on the shares, which early last week were trading at nearly $30, the Obama administration is looking for a price that is at least in the range of the $33 IPO price, the person said. The government would need to sell the shares at about $53 apiece to break even on the investment.

157 160

QE2 is a serious issue, Bernanke and his cohoots don't even know what they are doing...I' been a banker for 25 years and I know what they did is not going to work. 

Posted by: Just Chillin at April 24, 2011 01:43 PM (1ZXRm)

They're trying to cure debt with inflation and yet they don't have the balls to raise interest rates and really get the needed pain out there.

Net result: currency crisis and the whole fucking thing will fall on its ass.

158 The government would need to sell the shares at about $53 apiece to break even on the investment.

A bunch of people told me at the time"We're going to make money off of GM.  Isn't Obama awesome?"  I'd like to chase them all down and beat them with a bat.

159 A bunch of people told me at the time"We're going to make money off of GM.  Isn't Obama awesome?"  I'd like to chase them all down and beat them with a bat.

Posted by: Ace's liver at April 24, 2011 01:56 PM (QgI7g)

We should have just let the motherfucker fail, allow domestic and foreign investors to bust up the debilitatiting union contracts, reinvigorate and modernize production, sell off the shitty parts and then have a really viable, albeit smaller auto industry.

160 164 A bunch of people told me at the time"We're going to make money off of GM.  Isn't Obama awesome?"  I'd like to chase them all down and beat them with a bat.

Posted by: Ace's liver at April 24, 2011 01:56 PM (QgI7g)

We should have just let the motherfucker fail, allow domestic and foreign investors to bust up the debilitatiting union contracts, reinvigorate and modernize production, sell off the shitty parts and then have a really viable, albeit smaller auto industry.

Posted by: TexasJew at April 24, 2011 01:59 PM (uR5Zf)

Sure, that would have been the best option.  Maybe they'll do just that next time around - it's not like any of the problems are fixed.

161

Sure, that would have been the best option.  Maybe they'll do just that next time around - it's not like any of the problems are fixed.

Posted by: Ace's liver at April 24, 2011 02:02 PM (QgI7g)

They're not only still there, they're much worse.

I want to know how those leftist twats on our "Supreme" court thought that fucking the secured investors over the totally undecured UAW clowns was constitutional under the due process clause. This only goes against almost 200 years of civilized law. What precisely, is any American corporate or minicipal bond worth after that?

Who then, will want to add loan captial to the American auto industry now after that debacle?

Apply the bats where they are most needed.

162

By "investors" I meant "creditors" of course. Investors know that they are taking a risk. Not so with legally protected secured creditors.

Maybe they should now tell the IRS to go face-fuck itself when it becomes a secured creditor. What's fair is fair..

163 I'll bet a month's salary that before OBarky stops he's going to hike taxes at least 18% across the board and increase hidden fees on the middle class and much higher on the upper and corporate. Interest rates are going to explode as they try to soak up the trillions they've printed up like monopoly money. With real inflation already now at 6%-8% on the move and the dollar down 30% the last 2 years, he will try to finish collapsing the economy and our World influence and sell/break up the United States to the UN as the first "Global Democracy". Soros will become the richest man (liquid) on the planet but Zero will not really comprehend what his policies actually did to America. He will blame the demise on Bush.

164 Wait a doggone minute. Ramesh Ponnuru said QE2 was an excellent idea. In fact he's still defending it. I think criticizing Ramesh Ponnuru is going a little far, don't you?

165 Bernanke and his cohoots don't even know what they are doing

I think that's part of a larger point. Too often liberals get into office because they intimidate people into thinking they have all the answers.

Ask some guy on the street how to fix healthcare. He might make some stupid arguments about price caps and if you slice that up nicely, he'll eventually break down and argue that he doesn't know, but he puts his faith in the "smart people".

It's not important to educate the American people on these issues, but that the "experts" have no idea what they're doing and are not nearly as smart as people think they are.

166

QE1, QE2, QE3, who cares?

It's really just the Titanic at this point.

167 Lace wigs

168 Current activity: dreaming of the day when this megalomaniacal administration gets the boot and I can dig my money up from the backyard.

169

Posted by: FireHorse at April 24, 2011 01:06 PM (uUo97)

Ah... snark aside... I wish I had Julias money... but anyway...

The problem with your theory, and the disconnect, is that Capitalism is NOT just about making large amounts of Capital... but to get enough capital together to DO somthing with it.

Its mechanism we use to fill the basic economic need of taking Raw materials, creating GOODS, moving those goods, and then destroying those same goods (consumption).

When, as now, Capitalism becomes a side game where we keep track of ficticious Numbers... and that becomes the MAIN game (ie Capitalism becomes the goal, vice supproting the goal).... then that goal of creating Goods, and thus creating REAL wealth (not just numbers in a computer somewhere), is hindered.

I keep hearing the the Futures Market helps stabilise the Market... yet Modern history no longer supports that contention.... because the majority of people playing in said markets, are neither producers, nor consumers, but Wiz Kids with large amounts of other peoples money to play with.

So the Capital sits in the game, instead of doing somthing Productive...

It would be interesting to see how much of the 'wealth' in dollars, is sitting in Banks, Funds, or Markets... vice being used as Capital to actualy produce somthing.

170

Obama -  T T T Tax hypocrit

"From the reports concerning the President's tax returns he paid roughly $454,000 and change in federal taxes. Sounds like a lot doesn't it?

It is... to most people. But on taxable income of $1,700,000 it only works out to be a tad more than 26%. Woah! Wait a minute... The President--who had a taxable income of $1,700,000--paid what?

Had he voluntarily paid the rate he wished everyone else in his own income bracket to pay (39%) in federal taxes, he SHOULD have paid $663,000.

But wait there's more... To top off the sundae with a cherry, President Obama got a refund back from the government of $12,000. "

171 The whole idea that Sarah Palin knew all of this is interesting from the standpoint of the notion that the smart people don't know what they're doing, but it's not difficult.  2 classes in economics pretty much explains the field. If you have to overthink it, you're going to get it wrong.

Look at Thomas Sowell. The man is brilliant but he never says anything that's too complicated. Everything is common sense. He ties it together and makes connections but doesn't rely on making you trust him or trust the "experts." Milton Friedman didn't speak in the popular media about econometric models and stochastic differential equations.

But, more importantly, he didn't have the opinion that if you didn't understand those models and equations that you were ill-prepared to understand economics, that you had to defer to experts. But that's what Friedman and others do, it's intimidation by expertise.

And this just ties into my rant in 155. Sarah Palin is smart enough and even if there are smarter people, they don't seem to be able to get the job done, do they?

172 Not a failure if your goal is to bring down the USA and western economy.

173


1.  Print money
2. ???
3. Recovery

174 When you have a President and Administration that believes in limited resources and limited human potential you will end up with limited resources and limited human potential.

Trust the people and trust capitalism and you end up with unlimited bounty.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, happens every time, regulations to save resources cause a shortage of resources, both natural and human.

175 2 classes in economics pretty much explains the field. If you have to overthink it, you're going to get it wrong.

There's a famous quote about economics that goes something like "Economics provides us with insights that are either obvious or wrong."  My Google-fu isn't up to finding the exact quote or author, though.

I've read a lot about economics over the years, and aside from the idea of comparative advantage, I don't see much there that isn't obvious.  The advanced stuff is mostly models of debatable value, and every economist seems to be able to prove the right policy is the one that lines up with his own political leanings.

176 sifty: "Soros has Destroy the Dollar on a list right after Destroy America."

Both on the list but just reverse the order. "Destroy the dollar" pretty much leads to the latter for the short- to mid-term.

177 How can there be fat-burning hormones spam when no one's mentioned Michelle in this thread?

178

 That pretty much only leaves some combination of cutting spending and possibly cutting taxes as the untried and yet-unproven-to-have-failed option.

You forgot regulatory reform.

Get the federal boot off the neck of small businesses. How much time and money is wasted every year just in regulatory compliance? We have armies of people who do nothing but generate paperwork for the government to sign off on. Does any of this create wealth? No. Fuck no.

Get the government off our fucking backs and let people focuse on creating value instead of fiddle fucking around with a bunch of nonsense rules.

179

PJ O'Rourke said that economics is the entire scientific discipline of not knowing what you're talking about and the only quibble may be with the "scientific" part.

  Here's the predicament we're in. We've been living beyond our means for nearly 20 years or so. That has been fueled by debt. If you look at the charts and graphs, your jaw will hang open. Debt has been growing much faster than GDP, and that process is not sustainable. Total debt (private + public) is now somewhere around 350% of GDP. We've reached the wall. That debt falsely inflates assets (things like houses), creating a false "wealth effect".

     When that debt bubble crashes, there is weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and there is no means to avoid taking the losses of that crash. If you recklessly lend money, you're going to lose.

    There is no means of avoiding the losses in real terms. You can print, inflating the currency and spread the losses out via the debauched currency. Or the govt can "bail out" the losers via taking on the bad debt, transferring the loses to the taxpayers (or the bondholders of govt debt if the govt defaults). Or you can let the losers take their losses.

        We're doing a combination of the first two. It's going to end badly, and that end will be worse than the even the depression caused by letting the losers take their losses directly.

      Helicopter (Weimar) Ben has driven monetary policy well into unstable regions. He's in the coffin corner of the monetary flight envelope. He knows it, but he's put himself in that box.  If you think we've got inflation now (which we do -- they're just pretending we don't), you ain't seen nothing yet.

         I've seen models predicing a 40% jump in the price level essentially overnight with a little hiccup in the control inputs of this monetary plane in the "coffin corner". Or it could just just collapse without much inflation, depending. That's how unstable the situation is.

       They know it, but they've become trapped in this box by trying to prevent the losses from the reckless credit bubble (of their own creation).

 

 

180 As much as I would love to believe that should we win in 2012 that the Republican Party will get serious about cutting spending unless there's a major shakeup in the Party's leadership that's just not going to happen.

181 PJ O'Rourke said that economics is the entire scientific discipline of not knowing what you're talking about and the only quibble may be with the "scientific" part.

It is the art of finding a best-fit straight line through a single data point.

182

Obama gets the 'good person' discount and only has to pay at the Bush rates.  You're not a good person so you pay at the Clinton rates.

It's SCIENCE and FACTS FAUXNEWS WINGNUT!

183 You forgot the part where the Mainly Stupid Media commentator says "unexpectedly."

184

"That pretty much only leaves some combination of cutting spending and possibly cutting taxes as the untried and yet-unproven-to-have-failed option."

This is the FedGov you're talking about.  They will try raising taxes, and then raising them again, and probably even raising them again before they even consider cutting them.  Not that the states will be any better.

185 It's the uncertainty, stupid.