March 13, 2011
— rdbrewer
Reports are the explosion is due to the same thing that caused the explosion of #1, buildup of hydrogen gas.
Update: As with #1, secondary containment is blown away. The inner or primary containment is still intact. From BreakingNews on Twitter:
Inner reactor container reportedly intact after explosion at Fukushima Dai-Ichi plant - AP
Update: Seven people are missing, and three are injured. From the Wall Street Journal Live Blog.
Update: Kyodo News: Radiation levels have not risen significantly. Control room intact. Three workers injured.
''According to the plant chief's assessment, the container's health has been maintained,'' Edano told a press conference. ''The possibility is low that massive radioactive materials have spattered.''Edano said the blast that blew away the roof and the walls of the building housing the container was similar to an explosion Saturday at the No. 1 reactor of the same plant, following Friday's magnitude 9.0 quake.
It had been widely expected that the No. 3 reactor would follow the same path.
The top government spokesman said operations to pour seawater into the reactor to cool it down were continuing and the level of pressure in the container was stable.
The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said wind was not blowing in the area. The radiation level had not significantly risen, it added.
Again, for reference purposes, schematics of the Fukushima reactors (below the fold):
Posted by: rdbrewer at
06:58 PM
| Comments (201)
Post contains 234 words, total size 2 kb.
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:09 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: Insidious Sid at March 13, 2011 07:12 PM (NjXSJ)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 07:13 PM (qIHlG)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 07:14 PM (pchXj)
Posted by: Blinky the 3-eyed fish at March 13, 2011 07:14 PM (ODlV0)
Posted by: Japanese Nuclear Agency at March 13, 2011 07:14 PM (j4xgZ)
So much for the japs being neurotic about our nuke subs and carriers docking at Yokuska.
I will say a prayer for them and hope we are going to help. I have a lot of respect for them as a people.
Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2011 07:15 PM (A+3fb)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 07:16 PM (3OCZw)
You guys, on NatGeo, there's a show about tsunamis. They're showing art depicting the January, 1700, wave that devastated Japan. The art looks like paintings of the recent tsunami. Eerie.
yeah i have that over in the side bar.
While watching the waves in one of these videos, it made me immediately think of how waves are depicted in traditional asian art.
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 07:18 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 07:19 PM (pchXj)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 11:16 PM (3OCZw)
If it was that cool they wouldn't have had to vent anything.
They're saying the can still get water to it.
Posted by: Ace's liver at March 13, 2011 07:20 PM (QgI7g)
I'm rewatching the videos of the post Chernobyl accident of the men dumping sand, clay and concrete onto the reactor core, knowing that they were going to die.
I know this isn't like Chernobyl, but I'm sure men working there will die as a a result of this if they haven't already.
People often don't appreciate the risks people who work in heavy industry take everyday, whether its nuclear, steel, oil, chemical, plastics, etc.
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 07:24 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: d at March 13, 2011 07:24 PM (Op2Gk)
I know this isn't like Chernobyl, but I'm sure men working there will die as a a result of this if they haven't already.
People often don't appreciate the risks people who work in heavy industry take everyday, whether its nuclear, steel, oil, chemical, plastics, etc.
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 11:24 PM (DKV43)
Seemed guys posting here were saying the levels werent that bad, but that was last night and early this morning. dont know about now though
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 07:27 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 07:27 PM (3OCZw)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 07:30 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 11:27 PM (3OCZw)
{Clank Clank} is what you hear when they walk.
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 07:32 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 07:32 PM (pchXj)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:35 PM (WRtsc)
1 minute ago - siapant
Yeah, sort of sums up the weekend, kid....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 13, 2011 07:35 PM (Usvzc)
Posted by: Ted Striker at March 13, 2011 07:37 PM (azrS2)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:37 PM (WRtsc)
In other news, the Libyan rebels are completely screwed and the NFL season is cancelled.
Posted by: Geraldo Rivera and 9 of every 10 'experts' on FNC today at March 13, 2011 07:38 PM (uqJo6)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 11:35 PM (WRtsc)
soooo, why cant the assholes in the mbm(you too FOX) read this? Ratings whores the lot of 'em
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 07:38 PM (FIDMq)
Seems they thought it could happen with venting, like the last time. But there is an advantage to keeping the venting in the upper enclosure as long as possible, to contain any radioactive steam?
Not sure that is right, but it seems the top floor panels may even be designed to blow out ... like last time with all the framing remaining.
But I'm guessing.
Posted by: bill at March 13, 2011 07:39 PM (D6qOQ)
Yeah, it'll take time. But most of the nation is OK and will rebuild the parts that are damaged.
I only hope California is paying attention and taking notes.
Posted by: Kortezzi at March 13, 2011 07:41 PM (iMrTG)
Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 13, 2011 07:41 PM (QcFbt)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:42 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: Barbarian at March 13, 2011 07:43 PM (EL+OC)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 07:43 PM (3OCZw)
Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 13, 2011 07:44 PM (QcFbt)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:45 PM (WRtsc)
Ben, from what I could find over at Drudge, it just says that 100+ may have been exposed to unusual amounts of radiation. It doesn't say how much they were exposed to.
I know, it's just that the stress and fear must be palpable.
We always talk about the stress associated with first responders, but the people working at the reactor are probably going nuts.
The natural instinct to to run like hell, but they know they can't. They really only have two options, fix the reactors or die there. They can't leave until everything is under control.
I can't imagine what's going throught their minds
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 07:45 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: Palerider at March 13, 2011 07:49 PM (cQZV0)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 11:45 PM (WRtsc)
I know its all about the ratings and shit, but do they have to frickin lie, and some of the experts they have on are from what I hear full fledged anti nuke zealots. Screw the media, as some others have said Faux News is no better. This sites knowledge base rocks
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 07:49 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 07:50 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: Palerider at March 13, 2011 11:49 PM (cQZV0)
I saw some idiots on the tube talking about Cali, no mention whatsoever of Hawaii...sorry suckers, your on your own!
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 07:50 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: Hammer at March 13, 2011 07:51 PM (hVGDL)
God bless them and may God bless Japan in this time of trouble.
It will be interesting to see how a uni-cultural society handles a catastrophe like this.
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 13, 2011 07:52 PM (DCpHZ)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:53 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: Ted Striker at March 13, 2011 07:54 PM (azrS2)
Posted by: rickl at March 13, 2011 07:56 PM (hZFhS)
I am beginning to wonder if there ever was such a thing as true journalism in this country, or was the press always running an agenda game on us.
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 13, 2011 07:56 PM (DCpHZ)
Posted by: Ted Striker at March 13, 2011 07:57 PM (azrS2)
Posted by: Hammer at March 13, 2011 07:57 PM (hVGDL)
Posted by: rickl at March 13, 2011 07:57 PM (hZFhS)
Yeah. when the plant was designed, in the 1960's and started operation (1971). I am willing to bet that newer plants don't have that plan in mind.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 07:58 PM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: mghorning at March 13, 2011 07:58 PM (EvQFd)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 07:59 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 08:01 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: gebrauchshund at March 13, 2011 08:01 PM (iYwUw)
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 13, 2011 11:56 PM (DCpHZ)
Being born in the mid 70's I dont think there has been true journalists in my lifetime, but I think it has only been getting worse as time goes on
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 08:01 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at March 13, 2011 08:02 PM (ATMEl)
The only way this gets worse if this is some precursor to Mt. Fuji going off. Some 30 milliion people live with 60 miles of it.
I think some volcano erupted in Kyushu, or one of the other home islands. I hope this isn't the beginning of some major activity in the ring of fire.
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 08:03 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at March 14, 2011 12:02 AM (ATMEl)
I thought I read it has had indigestion since January, this might have stirred things up
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 08:04 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: Onlooker at March 13, 2011 08:05 PM (oB4zo)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 08:07 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at March 13, 2011 08:07 PM (ATMEl)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 08:08 PM (pchXj)
There were no environmental impact statements filed with the relevant governmental organizations, and we all know that Nature doesnÂ’t really do anything, itÂ’s all man-made Â… so what public official allowed this disaster to proceed ??
I demand that heads roll.
Posted by: James Hansen at March 13, 2011 08:09 PM (tvs2p)
Actually one of Geraldo's guests alarmists mentioned that there has been significant activity in each quadrant of the ring of fire in the last year or so-except the US West Coast.
Posted by: Methos at March 13, 2011 08:10 PM (uqJo6)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at March 14, 2011 12:02 AM
I heard a report that said it hasn't erupted in two weeks.
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 08:12 PM (pchXj)
Posted by: hmmmm at March 13, 2011 08:12 PM (GJeQU)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 13, 2011 08:12 PM (pchXj)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 08:12 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 14, 2011 12:12 AM (WRtsc)
[busy deleting Fox off of stations list]
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 08:14 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 12:12 AM (pchXj)
Has anybody from the administration said anything since Fri?
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 08:16 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: Ted Striker at March 13, 2011 08:17 PM (azrS2)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 08:17 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: Indian Outlaw at March 14, 2011 12:02 AM
I heard a report that said it hasn't erupted in two weeks.
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 14, 2011 12:12 AM
Actually it hadn't erupted for 52 years and had become active two weeks ago. But it had been quiet for a few days., so this was a new eruption.
Posted by: Deanna at March 13, 2011 08:19 PM (V7OBK)
According to one of the Chernobyl documentaries, a lot of the guys fighting the fire there had no idea of the dangers involved - the Soviet higher-ups sort of neglected to mention them. The nuke professionals probably figured it out, but a bunch of the others were very surprised.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at March 13, 2011 08:19 PM (2xfbm)
CSI reruns make much more sense to me now.
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 13, 2011 08:19 PM (DCpHZ)
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 08:22 PM (DKV43)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at March 13, 2011 08:23 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: tmi3rd at March 13, 2011 08:25 PM (WRtsc)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 08:26 PM (qIHlG)
They don't have the word wide structure in place that CNN has.
But what is really lame is that when they have a live foreign feed, instead of staying with it, they'll go to Huckabee instead.
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 08:26 PM (3OCZw)
Posted by: Commissioner Gordon at March 13, 2011 08:26 PM (L00d6)
89 I once had hopes for Fox
Posted by: Hrothgar at March 14, 2011 12:19 AM (DCpHZ)
Whats needed is another station like fox, but with a little more conservative to the message, not the establishment view. They can run roughshod as they have no competition, its fox or cnn,msnbc,or majors.
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 13, 2011 08:26 PM (FIDMq)
Posted by: navybrat at March 13, 2011 08:26 PM (RX1A/)
Posted by: Anderson Cooper at March 13, 2011 08:28 PM (/8mBu)
I'm really getting annoyed at American television coverage of this.
yeah cnn just had on some psychologist to talk about how asians aren't good as asking for help.
jesus christ.
Posted by: Ben at March 13, 2011 08:30 PM (DKV43)
None of this amounts to “another Chernobyl.” The Chernobyl reactor had two crucial design flaws. First, it used graphite (carbon) instead of water to “moderate” the neutrons, which makes possible the nuclear reaction. The graphite caught fire in April 1986 and burned for four days. Water does not catch fire.
Second, Chernobyl had no containment structure. When the graphite caught fire, it spouted a plume of radioactive smoke that spread across the globe. A containment structure would have both smothered the fire and contained the radioactivity.
If a meltdown does occur in Japan, it will be a disaster for the Tokyo Electric Power Company but not for the general public. Whatever steam releases occur will have a negligible impact. Researchers have spent 30 years trying to find health effects from the steam releases at Three Mile Island and have come up with nothing. With all the death, devastation and disease now threatening tens of thousands in Japan, it is trivializing and almost obscene to spend so much time worrying about damage to a nuclear reactor.
And from Vic the nuclear engineer yesterday:
A nuclear reactor undergoing an accident produces fission products, mostly gaseous. And they do not travel further than about 50 miles before dissipating.
Posted by: Vic at March 12, 2011 06:03 PM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: andycanuck at March 13, 2011 08:30 PM (7H/n0)
Posted by: Anderson Cooper
Ha I thought he was going to drop the mic and run like hell when he heard while "on air" that the reactor plant blew up.
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 08:32 PM (3OCZw)
When production will resume is uncertain. The area hit by the quake is a major center for car production, complete with a myriad of parts suppliers and a network of roads and ports for efficient shipments.
"There is no way to get our products out, even if we make them, with the roads and distribution system damaged," said Honda Motor Co. spokeswoman Natsuno Asanuma.
Honda said the production halt will cost it about 4,000 vehicles a day.
Nissan said the tsunami damaged 1,300 vehicles bound for the U.S., including its Infiniti luxury brand, at Hitachi port in Ibaraki state in the northeast, and 1,000 vehicles stored at another center.
Among the plants being shut down is one Toyota had just opened in Miyagi prefecture, within the region hardest hit by the quake.
The factory, Toyota's first new Japan plant in 18 years, had been proudly shown to reporters last month as a welcome development in an otherwise stagnant Japanese auto market. It was set to start producing the Corolla for both the Japanese and North American markets in April.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 13, 2011 08:35 PM (Usvzc)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 08:37 PM (qIHlG)
As a Californinian, yeah, I'm a tad concerned about a nuclear meltdown in Japan. Despite reports to the contraray, prevailing winds WILL bring nuclear effects to the west coast.
But,. President Obama is out golfing so everyting must be hunky-dory. Right? Hello? Bueller?
Posted by: Russkilitlover at March 13, 2011 08:37 PM (Btey0)
Posted by: humphreyrobot at March 13, 2011 08:40 PM (EiH7n)
Posted by: Lemmiwinks at March 13, 2011 08:42 PM (54F2e)
Posted by: Kortezzi at March 13, 2011 11:41 PM (iMrTG)
*snort*
Posted by: KG at March 13, 2011 09:05 PM (2k/Dg)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 09:14 PM (qIHlG)
Posted by: somebody else, not me at March 13, 2011 09:14 PM (7EV/g)
#39 = Im a native Californian now living out of state . When this happens to Cali you will see a huge cultiral difference. The Japamese are dignified - Cali not so much.
It hurts to say = but true
Posted by: Cheri at March 13, 2011 09:24 PM (BA8k3)
I take it you haven't read what Vic said. We aren't talking about nuclear bombs here....
Posted by: KG at March 13, 2011 09:27 PM (2k/Dg)
The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.
Um, is that even how it works?
Posted by: Methos at March 13, 2011 09:29 PM (uqJo6)
this is why I posted the link. That struck me as odd but I'm assuming that someone who know, really knows about this stuff will tell us an answer. My first thought was: "hmm are there any volcanoes going off in Japan that are spitting ash up into the atmosphere and could that ask then pass over one of these messy reactor thingies and pick up radiation?
Posted by: curious at March 13, 2011 09:34 PM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Anachronda at March 13, 2011 09:43 PM (6fER6)
Posted by: andycanuck at March 13, 2011 09:43 PM (7H/n0)
Posted by: Methos at March 13, 2011 09:45 PM (uqJo6)
Posted by: cthulhu at March 13, 2011 09:47 PM (kaalw)
According to one channel...Discovery?...It is high time that the east end of the circle of fire has it's earthquake from hell and and gets over flowed like Japan. They are saying Seatle is doomed. Doomed I tell ya, doomed. And is Charlie Sheen dead yet?
Posted by: Hous Bin Pharteen at March 13, 2011 09:52 PM (V+/pV)
Decontamination of a helo is pretty straightforward. after it lands, it rolls itself over to the wash station. Think of getting your car washed at a "touchless" auto wash. Then, with rotors spinning and engines turning, the H20 gets turned on, and the helo sits there. Jets of water bathe the helo, add in special detergents to "wash" it, and the rotor wash dries the bird.
These wash stations are at every military arifield, the runoff is also contained and run through a centrifuge to remove particulates, and IIRC, radiacs are used to check for isotopes.
All that's left is to replace the air filters for the engine and check the crew.
Posted by: Chuck Z at March 13, 2011 10:00 PM (Ig+B0)
Then there is simply the emissions from the core itself, if the containment was breached. Since the containment seems to be mostly intact, there appears to be limited radiation in the immediate area. However, particulate isotopes can still cause significant damage far from the reactor, and won't be detected by the instruments operated by TEPCO and others at the reactor site, at least immediately.
Posted by: alexander at March 13, 2011 10:00 PM (1BToE)
Last report I read was that they were going to analyze the material and try to determine its origin.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:02 PM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: alexander at March 13, 2011 10:04 PM (1BToE)
As far as I know the specific elements that have been released mostly come from the middle of the periodic table. That means their half-life is generally measured in "minutes." And that's why the evacuation zone is measured in "miles" or "tens of miles." Once you get that far from the site four or five half-lives have passed and the elements have decayed past the point at which they are dangerously radioactive.
What is on the helicopters and people is just dust that picked up a bit of radioactivity, so they spray it off with some [relatively] high pressure hoses and continue to monitor. You wouldn't want to breathe a lot of it in, but once again, AFAIK it's still very short-lived byproducts.
Another thing to keep in mind is precisely what type of radiation is emitted when the released elements decay. Alpha and beta particles are stopped by paper and wood, or clothing. Higher energy decay activity, such as x-rays or gamma-rays, are much more dangerous.
As far as the volcanic plume goes, I see no chance of the two interacting and then making it to CA. First, they're simply quite a ways apart. Second, to make it across the ocean the particulates must be rather high in the atmosphere, else they just drop out. As far as I know, nothing has happened to elevate the whatever is coming out of the damaged reactor to the needed heights.
I hesitate to add this, because of the potential to generate fear, but what you DON'T want to hear is that iodine has been released, or any of the heavy metals such as plutonium, cesium, or uranium. Once again, AFAIK all that stuff is still pretty well confined.
Posted by: Popcorn at March 13, 2011 10:04 PM (OOehk)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:07 PM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:11 PM (ZbLJZ)
Wait 'til they get a load of me!
Posted by: Mount Rainier at March 13, 2011 10:12 PM (2xfbm)
sustained injuries (all of them are conscious) and ambulances are on
their way to care for them.
As of 11:44 am, the measured value of radiation dose near MP6 is 20μSv/h
and the radiation level remains stable. "
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:14 PM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 10:15 PM (3OCZw)
Iodine-131 is not favored because it makes a beeline for your thyroid -- that's why they give potassium iodine as a prophylactic, so your body doesn't absorb the I-131. Strontium-90 looks like calcium to your body, so it is also dangerous. The heavy metals are nasty for a variety of reasons: long half-life, gamma-ray activity, and in the case of plutonium I believe that it is also toxic as well as radioactive.
Posted by: Popcorn at March 13, 2011 10:17 PM (OOehk)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 10:17 PM (qIHlG)
They are already doing that with the GenIII+ plants.
General Electric says about their new ESBWR plant:
" It is 11 times more likely for the largest asteroid near the earth to impact the earth over the next 100 years than for an ESBWR operational event to result in the release of fission products to the environment"
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:18 PM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: Geraldo Rivera and 9 of every 10 'experts' on FNC today at March 13, 2011
Jerry had some "experts" on who said the Indian Point nuclear plant was built on the assumption that it would face at most a 3.5 earthquake but "experts" later said that the fault line under it could produce a 7.0 quake
As a native of the NY-NJ area that the Ramapo fault runs through, if it did produce a 7.0 (very unlikely), the massive damage caused from the collapse of old brick structures and countless thousands of other structures not built with earthquakes in mind, along with the infrustructure that's falling down from rot anyway, there'd be so many deaths from other causes that no one would give a shit.
Posted by: kbdabear at March 13, 2011 10:20 PM (vdfwz)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 10:22 PM (qIHlG)
The thing is that if you die from a nuclear accident you are much deader than if you die from an entire city being swept away by a tsunami. 9 out of 10 ex-spurts estimate that you are 8.6 times deader, in fact.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 10:22 PM (ZbLJZ)
This made me laugh, but on a serious note you can see that despite the tens of thousands of deaths in Japan from the e-quake and the tsunami, the center ring is still filled with images of micro-Sv releases. If there were a mag 7.0 e-quake near Indian Point and the only thing that happened was that someone stubbed their toe we'd still be hearing about it for days on end.
Posted by: Popcorn at March 13, 2011 10:24 PM (OOehk)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 13, 2011 10:24 PM (qIHlG)
The market ticker guy seemed to think it was pretty important you get patassium iodide rather than anything that sounds like it. And not to take it without pretty immediate need as it has detrimental effects of its own.
Posted by: Methos at March 13, 2011 10:29 PM (uqJo6)
Okay so basically then from that, they are saying that in the event of a no access to water coolant scenario, that the containment structure cannot be breached .
And or, that the amount of the total release would be negligible in a worst case scenario.
Posted by: melvin at March 13, 2011 10:29 PM (3OCZw)
Posted by: Methos at March 13, 2011 10:31 PM (uqJo6)
lulz
Posted by: Acme 'Titanic' Nuclear Reactor Kit at March 13, 2011 10:33 PM (uqJo6)
Posted by: Errol at March 13, 2011 10:46 PM (7f/h+)
Yeah, it kinda sucks when you keep thinking, "if TSHTF, I'd rather be with people like that than my actual neighbors."
Posted by: cthulhu at March 13, 2011 10:52 PM (kaalw)
Posted by: Errol at March 14, 2011 02:46 AM (7f/h+)
During the 1994 Northridge earthquake there was almost no looting and the crime rate actually went down in the weeks afterwards. Likewise with the massive flooding in Nashville last year. So New Orleans during Katrina was really the outlier when it comes to disasters in the US. But of course this is how everyone now thinks of how Americans handle disasters.
Posted by: Mætenloch at March 13, 2011 10:58 PM (ACrAn)
maybe
Posted by: crosspatch at March 13, 2011 11:07 PM (ZbLJZ)
Yeah, it kinda sucks when you keep thinking, "if TSHTF, I'd rather be with people like that than my actual neighbors."
Posted by: cthulhu at March 14, 2011 02:52 AM (kaalw)
Heh. My neighbors know trying to loot my place would be the fastest way to die in a disaster.
Posted by: Ace's liver at March 13, 2011 11:21 PM (QgI7g)
, I did a 30-day student tour of Europe. In Italy, there was a bottle of mineral water that I was examining over lunch that stated XXX mmC in its guaranteed analysis. I asked our guide what that was, and he said that they were claiming a certain amount of milli-micro-Curies of radiation, as that was supposed to give you "zip".Nowadays, you talk about the radiation from living in a brick house or flying across the continent, and people look at you like you should have a Geiger counter shoved up your ass for the next decade.
When did we move from the first (comical) idiocy, to the second (tragic)? How did we get from a manageable -- but inevitable -- level of exposure to pursuing either more or less?
Posted by: Casey Jones you better watch your speed at March 13, 2011 11:26 PM (kaalw)
Hey! Let's build nuclear power plants on our volcanic island that is prone to earthquakes and tsunamis! What could go wrong?
We cannot build nuclear power plants in our country even though we are not a volcanic island, and we have vast areas not prone to earthquakes or tsunamis but we do have an ignorant population that listens to the MFM scare the shit out of them.
Posted by: Case at March 13, 2011 11:46 PM (0K+Kw)
Posted by: Ohio Dan at March 13, 2011 11:50 PM (2o7Ys)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:04 AM (ZbLJZ)
From the BBC:
0812: Japan's Deputy Cabinet Secretary for Public Relations Noriyuki Shikata tweets: "After the blast of Unit 3, the cooling function of Unit 2 was stopped. Injection of sea water into Unit 2 is now being prepared. "
Posted by: Infobot at March 14, 2011 12:22 AM (LJAdd)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:25 AM (ZbLJZ)
;">To whom it may concern,
;">
;"> ;">I am just a layman and cannot offer any ;">professional ;">expertise on BWR reactors but I think that the focus (on your channel ;">and ;">others) on the Nuclear Power Plant is a bit disproportionate.
;">
;">I think that I understand the principal, 'If it bleeds, it ledes!' and how much more sexy a headline like Another Chernobyl!!! ;"> could be but I think it incredibly inappropriate.
First off, you don't have to look for more drama.
It's there. It's there in such massive doses as to be almost unimaginable.
Secondly, Japan is not the U.S.S.R. and Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station is nothing like Chernobyl!
As I said, I am but a layman (but one who strives to be well informed and has some training in the sciences) and can offer no professional expertise on the engineering of nuclear power plants but these days, I do have access to more authoritative sources via the internet...
You (the network) would do well to bear this in mind...
If I think that the ratio of "infotainment" bullshit to "reporting" crosses the line I'll drop your ass just as fast as I did Tom Brokaw back in the day. And you guys have been tempting me mightily these past few days!
I don't need some sort of made up threat of "Radiation" somehow wafting into Oregon or Washington to make me "identify" more with the situation in Japan.
I am curious and worried though about water supplies...
Where do those islands get their drinking water from?
A massive earthquake just shook the nation and likely did some major damage to their infrastructures.
Then, a massive wave of sea-water filled with god knows what pulverized remains of a modern industrial society obliterated entire cities!
We all watched that wave take over some farmland and that was pretty dramatic.
What's left after the waters recede?
What was deposited?
Can that land ever be farmed again?
If so, how?
What's in the water table?
;">
*Also, Geraldo Rivera is a complete tool. You don't have to sound so fucking excited and happy about misery, pain, loss and grief just because it is a "big story" Jerry. ;"> Just sayin'...
Posted by: Deety at March 14, 2011 12:25 AM (Jb3+B)
My font was not that big when I pasted it.
Sorry...
Crap.
I look more crazy and ignorant than I actually am and that's a pretty low bar!
Posted by: Deety at March 14, 2011 12:29 AM (Jb3+B)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
Working on getting coolant.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:31 AM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 12:34 AM (qIHlG)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 12:37 AM (qIHlG)
Good news: Diani plant is said to be ok now and the #1 and #2 reactors have now been removed from the "emergency" list.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:40 AM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:42 AM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 12:43 AM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: Infobot at March 14, 2011 12:44 AM (LJAdd)
Looks like the rods in reactor 2 have not been exposed. From Kyodo:
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said water levels had fallen but the fuel rods in the No. 2 reactor remained submerged. He also said radiation levels had not risen sharply at the plant.
Posted by: Infobot at March 14, 2011 01:00 AM (LJAdd)
Note that this english programming is a loop and this information is stale.
Posted by: crosspatch at March 14, 2011 01:03 AM (ZbLJZ)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at March 14, 2011 01:08 AM (qIHlG)
Posted by: Ed Anger at March 14, 2011 02:03 AM (7+pP9)
I don't know for sure...
I've never been a soldier or had as crappy a job as the 7 who are missing and presumed dead at the reactor but I did have to organize an open water rescue mission one time...
(Why the fuck I decided to eat my sammich outside of the tank locker on the dock that cloudy day as opposed to hanging out in the restaurant and get bought some free beers by middle aged tourists who thought I was a sexeh Dive Master and just bareley heard the alarm whistle, I'll never know...)
I dunno.
Once the emergency training kicks in, you are kind of on auto-pilot...
Only concern I felt for my well being was having to jump in and rescue a panicked diver..
Mostly, because I was the only option to get her onto the boat and into safety.
She totally would have drowned my ass, trying to "climb" on top of me had I approached her from the front. Glazed, panicked, look in her eyes. I knew she couldn't take a lifeline.
She couldn't even answer basic questions like, "What is your name?"
"Don't go in there Deety!"
"Fuck You!" (Newish , older man, boyfriend at the time...)
"I need Otto to captain the boat and I need you to haul her ass over the gunnels once I guide her there!"
Panicky near drowning victims in open water are dangerous unless approached from behind. Especially when they shed their BC vest and tank!
My only fear that day was for others. I momentarily shat my pants when it occured to me all of the reasons why I wouldn't pick me a a rescuer.
Whatever. Me is all you get. I'll try.
I know that the Japanese can be super weird little fuckers but the main thing probably universally applies...
If you know that you can help you have to!
It's really not as scary as you might think.
Not trying to put down the bravery of the 7 Japanese workers who were killed in last nights explosion.
Just sayin'...
They didn't go in scared. Worried maybe... Of Course!
God bless them and their families.
I don't know exactly what it is I'm trying to say, except for that once you feel a responsibility for some charges, personal fear of physical safety and comfort is kinda negotiable.
If you really think that you are one of the few people to help a situation?
You just do it!
Fuck me!
If the Japanese want to hire me to push a broom to clean up one of their Nukes, I'll do it!
(Not ever gonna change the Depends on their aged population, tho...)
Posted by: Deety at March 14, 2011 02:05 AM (Jb3+B)
I give you big tip for happy ending, cute round-eye girl!
Posted by: aged, Depend-ent Japanese man at March 14, 2011 02:26 AM (SwkdU)
Posted by: Jean at March 14, 2011 02:40 AM (r+kmA)
Posted by: Case at March 14, 2011 02:42 AM (0K+Kw)
Radiation readings on site remained low after the blast, albeit elevated from normal operation. In the service hall the reading was 50 microSieverts per hour. At the entrance to the plant the figure was 20 microSieverts per hour.
Those are fairly low levels for an accident. 50 uSv = .5 mRem/hr which is barely measurable. < 5 mRem/hr is considered not even considered a radiation area at nuclear units in the U.S..
Personally I find it odd that the international community abandoned the Rem for the Sievert since the units for the Sv are so damn high.
However, during an accident where stuff is being released actual general area radiation levels are not as important as "contamination levels". (particulate deposition)
So far we have had very little actual data being released for these kinds of numbers. They are doing controlled releases via an elevated plant stack to maintain pressure in the containment structure at safe levels.
All that being said, I will repeat anytime you see or hear anything about fallout you can immediately discount it as pure bullshit being spouted from stupid people.
I would say that based on what we have heard so far there is very little hazard for off-site personnel in this event. And the MFM screaming about this "reactor casualty" are just being their normal stupid selves.
MFM: Gee; tsunami wipes out town of 18,000 people, that's bad. Nuclear reactor is melting down (even though it is not) run for you lives people we have a real disaster!
And please note: MFM includes Fox.
Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 02:59 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Jean at March 14, 2011 03:03 AM (r+kmA)
Posted by: aged, Depend-ent Japanese man at March 14, 2011 06:26 AM (SwkdU)
I am too tall for you oldish Nipper!
I haint been blond since I was seven years old.
Your wimmins scare me too!
I am 5'3" and I was recently almost arrested and my friendly cops described my eye color as green!
(No such color! I just made that shit up in Drivers Ed class when I was 15! My eyes are probably more blue or gray with some gold around the pupils...)
Silly Rabbit!
Trix are for Kids!
Cute, round eyed girls don't work for tips.
We just do it for fun!
Sometimes...
Posted by: Deety at March 14, 2011 03:24 AM (Jb3+B)
The report was that they were "investigating" use of Pu mixed with the fuel, not that they had actually started that.
But anyway, no it doesn't make any difference.
Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 03:53 AM (M9Ie6)
One, why exactly are those explosions occurring if they aren't related to primary containment? Basically, what's blowing up?
Two, are people still working in those facilities?
Posted by: Jack Burton at March 14, 2011 04:01 AM (6B32N)
H2 gas is leaking past the main steam isolation valves into the secondary containment. When it builds up enough it reaches an explosive combination. Either that, or it is coming from the main generators which use H2 gas for a cooling medium.
Two, are people still working in those facilities?
Yes, and several have been injured in these explosions.
Posted by: Vic at March 14, 2011 04:09 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Jack Burton at March 14, 2011 04:34 AM (6B32N)
Two, are people still working in those facilities?
Uhm...
Yeah . They were.
Some of them...
RIP heroes! And Hiros!
Vic said it better but my first guess on the splodey parts had to do with hydrogen...
(Did you guys see the flash before stuff started combusting?)
Posted by: Deety at March 14, 2011 05:00 AM (Jb3+B)
The computer gods knew you were angry when you typed it, Deety.
And I was so disgusted by Fox News' coverage that I could only take it for 3 minutes (contradicting aloud what they were reporting) before I changed the channel.
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