1 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

2 Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

Newt doesn't drool, stammer and stutter while explaining his miserable failures. Nor does he forget the points of his deeply seeded 3 point plan to reform government.

3 Then we would have to see what Newt said in 2007. What was his advice to Fannie and Freddie?

4

Newt doesn't drool, stammer and stutter while explaining his miserable failures. Nor does he forget the points of his deeply seeded 3 point plan to reform government.

Posted by: lorien1973 at December 01, 2011 04:20 PM (usXZy)

lol This.

5 lorien, yeah, I guess that's a bigger deal than vigorously defending the institutions at the heart of the destruction of the world economy.

6 Miss'80s posted this on the last thread - it needs another mention:

Newt Gingrich on Ryan’s Plan as Right-Wing Social Engineering: “What I Said Was True” (Video)

7

Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

Me too, Ace.

Perry has been slamming Obama since he got in the race. ...Hard. ....But people ignore it, and keep saying "Newt is the one who is taking it to Obama".

 

8

Has it come to this?  Am I hoping Gingrich can pullit out?

9

Perry didn't have room for error with the frame that was already ready for him. 'Another moron Governor of Texas' was just going to be too easy if he wasn't sharp.

Then, he had some horrible debate performances. First impressions matter. Perry's mistakes didn't come years ago in consulting or policy deliberations; they came in his introduction to voters. You just can't overcome that.

10 Did someone say butt hurt?

11 I am of the opinion that Newt will eviscerate Obama in the run-up to the general election.

The thought of Newt in the Oval Office only scares me if we can't hold on to the House.

12 Sheriff Joe Arpaio is on Cavuto right now.....endorsing Rick Perry.

13 Ace, thing is: Newt can talk his way out of his shit, your guy just cant.

14 Perry would get destroyed in a debate with Obama. How are you going to get elected when you can't go toe-to-toe with Obama in a debate. I'm not sure that independents are going to vote for someone that "seems" dumber than Bush "seemed".

15 8 Has it come to this?  Am I hoping Gingrich can pullit out? I'm trying to put it in.

16 pullit out?


Don't mind if I do...

17 SCOAMF's on both sides..

18 In this field, what constitutes a disqualification, though?  Newt's doing well as a viable alternative to Romney, who's got PLENTY of dumb shit in his own past.

19 ace at December 01, 2011 04:21 PM (nj1bB)

No one claims Newt is perfect or all knowing - except Newt, perhaps. His explanation that he was hired by FM and how he pumped himself up (he saw it coming!) was bullcrap. It is/was obvious the second he spit it out.

If you read what he wrote about FM, though. It's pretty clear that he's promoting FM from the aspect of "well, if it's a big government program or some sort of GSE - I guess the GSE is better". Not that it's a good point of view. It is what it is.

I don't like his attachment to FM - I think it's one of his bigger liabilities to be honest - but no candidate is perfect. And, he was out of office at the time congress expanded the CRA (thank god for scandal, amiright?) which made FM real disaster it was.

20 What happens if none of them win the nomination?

21 Is that a plausible scenario?

22

Ahhh screw it, I am just going to go with Perry. The rest of the party can deal with the draft dodging, pro cancer, crusade mongering, global warming loving, adultering, flip flopping, pro big government true conservatives.

I'm done with them, if I lose I lose.

23
..... I guess it hasn't been a year yet.....

24 So I guess it's official?  Newt's Miss December of True Conservative monthly?

25 Jeez, Perry has a stain on the carpet to explain next to Newt's exploded outhouse.

Is it the "I was a bad widdle boy" thing?

26 First impressions matter. Perry's mistakes didn't come years ago in consulting or policy deliberations; they came in his introduction to voters. You just can't overcome that.

Even Sarah Palin made an awesome first impression, Ace, you have to admit that. Then she disappointed lots of folks. With Perry's first and subsequent impressions being so awful, it doesn't surprise me people began to tune him out. If he can't even sound impressive like Palin, then how can one take him seriously as a national politician?

Or something like that.

27 OT/ Is the Govenor of Puerto Rico eligible to be VP?

28

>>Perry would get destroyed in a debate with Obama. How are you going to get elected when you can't go toe-to-toe with Obama in a debate. I'm not sure that independents are going to vote for someone that "seems" dumber than Bush "seemed".

I seem to recall Bush winning two elections even though he didn't fare well in the debates.

Also, when did Obama become a master at debates all of the sudden. I seem to recall him being a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

29 Gingrich is an idiot.....Obama is awesome !! Next stupid question ??

30 I've got the butt hurt, too.  Perry's own fault for not showing up prepared, I guess, though it's probably hard to prepare for a mass assault coming from 87 different directions in the first weeks of your campaign like happened to him.  Still he was unprepared and it probably cost him the nomination.  Crap.

Oh well, we are where we are ... it sucks, but I'll take Newt over Mitt and pray for a Perry miracle along the way.  The rest just don't do it for me.

31 So I was putting on my pants one morning, checked the pocket, and sonuvabitch, someone had stuffed in a check for 1.8 million bucks made out to me from some guy named "Freddie".

Beats the shit of me how that got in there, but I went down to the Kum-N-Go and cashed it anyway.  Those alimony payments aren't going to make themselves.

32 20 What happens if none of them win the nomination?

Posted by: Serious Cat at December 01, 2011 04:29 PM (2YIVk)

I guess a wide-open convention, in which case delegates start nominating their schnauzer or something. Hasn't happened in a century, though.

33 Perry's biggest mistake?  Entering the race just in time to go to skirmish on his weakest ground-- the debates.  He got written off by putting his worst foot forward right out of the gate.

34 26

You're right about first impressions.

So, we all forgot our first impression of Newt? And the 34th?

I have to admit, even I'm cheering him on at times when I could have choked him a year ago.

35 Perry has been slamming Obama since he got in the race. ...Hard. ....But people ignore it, and keep saying "Newt is the one who is taking it to Obama".

Perry will never, ever overcome his forgetting of the 3 departments he wants to get rid of. It'll haunt his political career forever. Add to that his previous debate performances, and Perry is where he put himself at. Everyone liked Perry going in; but the dude is worse than Bush on the communication level.

If you can get bitch slapped by Nancy Pelosi, yeah, maybe you shouldn't be president.

Sure, he attacks Obama (now that Perry is out of the race, essentially), but anyone can do that. Newt does it just as well. Perry just brings up Fast and Furious while others, oddly, do not.

36 Ace not that I disagree with you persay but when you are talking about people overlooking other candidates flaws but not your candidates....just remember people voted for Obama.

37

Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

 

At least our Perry butthurt is not as bad as the Bachmann supporters' "sandy vaginas".

38 Also, when did Obama become a master at debates all of the sudden. I seem to recall him being a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

Watching a one-on-one debate between Perry and Obama would be like watching a couple of quadraplegics wrestle by bashing their wheelchairs into each other.

And I like Perry.

39

It isn't just about 'mistakes'. It is about enough of those mistakes linking together to form a narrative about a candidate.

Romney hasn't made many types of mistakes, but his consistent history of inconsistency forms a narrative. Also, voters have been exposed to this weakness for five years now.

Perry made the same mistake again and again. He looked dumb and unprepared at the same time that he was being introduced to voters.

Newt is much harder to pin down. He is an unfocused technocrat with Attention Deficit Disorder in his professional and personal life. It is not as easy to pin down his faults. Plus, he is a much better politican than he was a decade ago. He isn't going to make as many mistakes.

40 Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

Because everyone thinks that they themselves are glib and witty and imagine themselves dominating any conversation, even under the bright lights.

I mean, how hard could it be?

41 Oh well, we are where we are ... it sucks, but I'll take Newt over Mitt and pray for a Perry miracle along the way.  The rest just don't do it for me.

Posted by: Hippocrates at December 01, 2011 04:31 PM (8/DeP)

Agreed.

42 A huge part of getting elected is explaining the stupid stuff you did years ago.  Cause _everyone_ does stupid stuff. Who do you want facing the MSM next year after watching Mitten whiff with Bret Baier? Romeny can only duck the tough interviews for so long, what the hell is going to do when Wolf Blitzer pins him down?

That being said, Mitt Romney is a damn fine looking man.

43 38

Damn! Really?
Now I want to see a Perry and Obama debate.

44 Perry at 4% in the polls.

45 Everyone liked Perry going in; but the dude is worse than Bush on the communication level.

This.

46 Oh well, we are where we are ... it sucks, but I'll take Newt over Mitt and pray for a Perry miracle along the way.  The rest just don't do it for me.

OOOOOOHHHHHH Livin' on a prayer...

47 In this field, what constitutes a disqualification, though?  Newt's doing well as a viable alternative to Romney, who's got PLENTY of dumb shit in his own past.

Is Newt- who has a recent history of being a Big Government conservative- really more conservative than Romney?

If so, what are his chances in the general election?

To the first question- I really don't know.  Given the ideological flexibility they've both exhibited, I'm not sure it's even possible to know.

As to the second, I believe Romney is more electable, but by how much?  I'm again unsure.

I'd prefer Perry, but I can only go on ignoring reality for so long.  Being "Not Romney" isn't good enough if the candidate in question is no better.

48 So Newt stuck Fannie and Freddie for 1.6 million.  Big whoop.  It's nasty in that he was riding the federal government gravy train, but I doubt he did anything for Fannie and Freddie.  None of those political appointments do much of anything, especially over at those cesspools.

As to having known that their policies (as directed by the frauds in Washington) were stupid and unsustainable, everyone knew that.  That wasn't a big secret or anything.  We'd already known about the accounting frauds at Fannie and Freddie for some time - many thanks to Obama's old campaign finance advisor, until he wasn't - apart from the general problems with trying to distort the debt market.  I'm sure they talked about that stuff all the time.  How could you not?

49 Perry didn't have room for error with the frame that was already ready for him. 'Another moron Governor of Texas' was just going to be too easy if he wasn't sharp. This. In the same way Newt is NOT ROMNEY, Perry needed to be NOT BUSH so that the only parallels people could reasonably draw between him and Dubya is that both were governors of Texas, but that's as far as the similarities go. I think that's his biggest downfall. It sucks because I'm a Perry guy, but eh, who knows, maybe a lot will change in 2 months.

50 Perry at 4% in the polls.

Posted by: Oops at December 01, 2011 04:34 PM (e6MoS)

No where to go but up baby.

51 Obama isn't a master of debating, but with 3 and a half years of Presidential experience he has a better handle of the issues and can better articulate them than Perry. Next years Obama/whomever debates will be the most watched and talked about. I have no confidence that Perry can come out of them winning people over. Just my opinion.

52 Is lobbying for Ethenol subsidies big-gov conservatism?

53 For those who thought, "I really doubt someone would be paid $1.6 million for such advice," congrats, it seems they got a little more than some criticism.

So you're guessing it went more like Your plan is insane and unworkable but, if you are really going with it, here's the guy you need on your side.  Let me talk to him for you and set up a meeting.

54 Watching a one-on-one debate between Perry and Obama would be like watching a couple of quadraplegics wrestle by bashing their wheelchairs into each other.

google South Park's "Cripple Fight" (combat choreographed by Rowdy Roddy Piper).

55 OT: OBAMA LAWYERS: Americans legitimate targets in war on terror...

Didn't I hear Osama say this too?  Weird.

56

I seem to recall Bush winning two elections even though he didn't fare well in the debates.

Posted by: Ben at December 01, 2011 04:31 PM (wuv1c)

Bush lost the popular vote in 2000 and considering that his opponent was such a dolt and that the political scene after 9/11 didnt exactly favour Dems, he did pretty bad in 2004. Imagine Bush without 9/11 and I think "one term potus". Perry seems to be heading into that direction and nobody wants that.

57 I think after the New Hampshire vote the debates should limit it to candidates with 10% or more in the polls.

58
Ron Paul was on with Laura Ingraham this morning and she asked Dr Paul about Noot's Fannie fee. (Laura didn't discuss foreign policy with him.)

Ron Paul wondered how Newt can claim to have the solution for things like Fannie/Freddie when he's part of the problem.

And that pretty much says it all.

59 54

Love the "Them" and "Cripple Fight" overlays on youtube.

60

No where to go but up baby.

Posted by: robtr at December 01, 2011 04:36 PM (MtwBb)

 

lol

61

Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

He's from Texas and made some verbal gaffes and I think that because of those two factors a lot of people had Bush flashbacks. Had he not been from Texas or not goofed up he'd be in a much stronger position right now but the combination was deadly. It isn't fair of course, but neither is life.

62 I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass... And I'm all out of...uh...give me a second here.

63 >>Is that a plausible scenario? It verges on implausible, as the splits would have to be just right to fail to produce a winner. It is possible to go to the convention at a deadlock, though. But very unlikely.

64 Meanwhile, Romney sniveled that Bret Baier was "overly aggressive".

That being said, Mitt Romney is a damn fine looking man.

65 So Newt's campaign slogan is that he's rehabilitated. "Yeah I babbled about some pretty wacky shit for a while there and actually jumped ship a little in 2008 but I'm all better now. I saw something on the road to Damascus. I get it. Trust me"

66 Everybody was part of the problem with FannieMay/FreddieMac. Start from there and work forwards. Who has soured on Big Gov handouts and who has not? Now lets talk

67 Is Newt- who has a recent history of being a Big Government conservative- really more conservative than Romney? I always thought of Newt being another ugly ass establishment fuckface, but now that he's the NOT ROMNEY candidate, I'm trying to see his good points. he does express the conservative philosophy very well, which is half the battle. It's not enough to merely support the right political philosophy to explain in a convincing manner WHY you believe (or at least claim to), and Newt does that well.

68 High atop a craggy peak in Alaska, Sarah Palin spreads her leathery wings, raises her face to the sky, and shrieks in ecstasy.

69

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is on Cavuto right now.....endorsing Rick Perry.

No shit?

I'm seeing an opening in the future....

70 Watching a one-on-one debate between Perry and Obama would be like watching a couple of quadraplegics wrestle by bashing their wheelchairs into each other.

And I like Perry.

Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at December 01, 2011 04:33 PM (QKKT0)

Might go something like this:

http://tinyurl.com/6zfazg

71 Also, when did Obama become a master at debates all of the sudden. The same people writing the questions will be writing his answers.

72 I'm still for Perry, but what about Santorum? Other than losing an election what is his disqualification? He was a good substitute on Bill Bennet's show on Fridays. PS he's on Hannity radio show now.

73 I, for one, welcome four more years of our SCOAMF overlord.

74

When faced with a Kobayashi Maru situation, you change the rules. 

 

If you believe the current group of candidates doesnÂ’t have someone who not only can win, but be the type of president you want once elected, then work towards making the options expand.

 

First, figure out who the dream candidate would be, then figure out how to make that happen.

75

Bush lost the popular vote in 2000

Posted by: Elize Nayden, Newtist at December 01, 2011 04:37 PM (97AKa)

Interestingly, the Jewish seniors in Palm Beach and the butterfly ballot (all dems and dem creations, BTW) gave Bush the election in 2000.  Clearly, most of the Buchanan votes were supposed to go to that scumbag global warming shitstain.  That would have been Florida. It was Gore's election, but the butterfly flapped its wings in Palm Beach and America got lucky.

76

So Newt's campaign slogan is that he's rehabilitated.

Like I said.

Newt 2012: I got better.

77

35....Sure, he attacks Obama (now that Perry is out of the race, essentially), but anyone can do that. Newt does it just as well. Perry just brings up Fast and Furious while others, oddly, do not.

No. Perry has been slamming Obama even before he officially anounced. ....Obama even responded to him, back when Perry was leading in the polls.

The media has had Perry on 'ignore'.....except for when he makes a gaffe.

It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well. They are heavily invested in beltway politics and don't want an outsider like Perry coming in and upsetting their cash cow situation.

78 I notice that Herm is now a complete write-off among the moron horde.  Or at least among the day shift.

79 Ace, I'm with you in the sense that I'd like Perry more. But it sure doesn't look like Perry is getting a bounce. So the Not-Romney is still Newt. Too f'ing bad I guess.

80 Did someone say butt hurt?

Posted by: Barney Frank at December 01, 2011 04:25 PM (u7cdn)

I'm sure yours stopped hurting years ago.....

81 ONE POSSIBLE REASON WHY NEWT IS RESONATING:

As a result of this recession, many people who had never questioned their own judgement and decision making before now are.  What seemed like wise choices based upon the facts at hand have proven to be very unwise (e.g., taking out large home equity loans based upon over-inflated values).

These people don't want to be judged on these failures.  They want to say, yes I screwed up, but my choices made sense at the time.  Please judge me on the overall good I have done and not on a few poor choices.

These folks can relate to Newt.  He is obviously a bright guy who has done many many many many good things for America and a few stupid things (which are made obvious by 20/20 hindsight).  They like what they are hearing from him now and they want to give him a chance.

Newt Gingrich is not a conservative ideologue.  By the I mean that he does not accept the conservative viewpoint simply because it has the conservative label.  Newt Gingrich is a pragmatist.  Fortunately for America, conservatism is most often the pragmatic choice because it just works.

It is Newt's pragmatism that lead him to his viewpoint on illegal immigration.  He is not thinking in term of conservative ideology, he is thinking in terms of what will solve this complex problem.

THIS is what Independents want.  This is what Moderate Democrats want.  This may not be everything Conservatives want but tell me the last time you got everything you wanted on anything? If conservatives can get 80% from what they want from Newt, that is 180% better than what they are getting from Obama.

Newt is not a moderate.  He is not a RINO.  He is a pragmatist and he has my vote.

82 Can I get Dick Cheney walking on stage as Imhotep, sucking the life out of some candidate or reporter and declaring.  One a day would be fine we got lots of crap.

83 67

It is entirely possible that Newt will be extremely conservative once in office. There's some people who can separate their job from their private lives and beliefs. Take a good Lawyer for example. Or politician I suppose.

It just becomes really difficult to believe them after a while.

84 I seem to recall Bush winning two elections even though he didn't fare well in the debates.

Look at the economy in 2004 (unemployment below 5% if memory serves) and wonder why Bush had to struggle to win that thing? Republicans should have picked up more seats than they did (I believe it was essentially an even year in congress).

Why is that? Bush couldn't convey an idea to would resonate with people. He couldn't defend himself from John F'in Kerry of all people. Really?

By all rights, that should have been a landslide election. I, for one, will not be going thru that again. And Perry reminds me of Bush as a speaker, with Bush being more articulate. Not a good thing.

Even Perry's one on one interviews on Kudlow are pretty bad. He's not good. He may have good ideas (hey, so do I and half the commenters here!) but that doesn't make him fit to run for President.

85 Perhaps, Newt should consult with former Enron consultant Paul Krugman to see how he managed to argue away any damage for a former employer who went "financially unstable."

86 76

So Newt's campaign slogan is that he's rehabilitated.

Like I said.

Newt 2012: I got better.

Posted by: Entropy at December 01, 2011 04:42 PM (UmXRO)

------

If only that were true......if only......

87 I am still voting for Perry due to his policy positions. Newt is second on the list because in spite of his long list of flaws, he is still better than Romney. They are still too similar at times, though.

88 Found it! Sherlock, season 2 begins airing early January 2012 on the BBC. You'll have to watch it online but why wait until May when it airs on PBS? Now back to our previously scheduled programming....

89 I, for one, welcome four more years of our SCOAMF overlord.

Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2011 04:41 PM (5Rurq)

 

with the current GOP field, that is what we're getting

90 It's pretty great that the DNC can subsidize a spectacular voter fraud program and then complain that the winner of the 2000 election lost the popular vote. Why can't the right own both ends of their particular brand of evil (I guess that being pro-American and being right about everything) and really exploit it.

91

If you believe the current group of candidates doesnÂ’t have someone who not only can win, but be the type of president you want once elected, then work towards making the options expand.

First, figure out who the dream candidate would be, then figure out how to make that happen.

Well my fallback plan is Gary Johnson for Libertarian.

But if I can't talk you loosers out of Romney, I doubt I'll have much luck with that.

But at least I will get to go to the cool concession party.

92 Let's just say for the sake of things, that Newt! fully supported GSE's and government created bubbles back in 2000 whatever...the difference is is that GSE's are just a waste of money, single payer medical systems are a waste of liberty and life.

93 Perry at 4% in the polls.

"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem!"

94 Look at the economy in 2004 (unemployment below 5% if memory serves) and wonder why Bush had to struggle to win that thing?

Kerry and the MSM called that "the worst economy since the Great Depression".  They got away with it, too.

95 P.S., I really wish everyone would stop speaking of Fannie Mae as if it evil incarnate.  I bought my house as a foreclosure using a Fannie Mae Loan and was glad of it.  I have lived here for years and make my mortgage payment on time every month.

There are millions more happy customers just like myself.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

96 >>>These people don't want to be judged on these failures. They want to say, yes I screwed up, but my choices made sense at the time. Please judge me on the overall good I have done and not on a few poor choices. >>>These folks can relate to Newt. Among the least-compelling arguments possible, at least to me, is the "the common man *LIKES* dummies and screw-ups" claim. I see this trotted out a good deal. It's not a good argument. if this were true Perry would have rocketed to the top.

97 Schwalbe : The Me-262© at December 01, 2011 04:41 PM (UU0OF)

Santorum whines when he speaks. There is something just not right there. I like him and his positions (for the most part), but leadership is not a label I'd stick on him.

98
Perry is still a Buy.
Lots of upside.

Buy Perry now at these bargain basement prices.

99 Also remember that Newt will most likely have large Conservative majorities in both Houses of Congress.  What would be his motivation to lean left?

100 Perry at 4% in the polls. 1 out of 25. Sheesh. Well, can I pretend that makes me elite?

101 really ... at December 01, 2011 04:45 PM (X3lox)

Exactly. Bush couldn't defend himself at all. Like 500,000 jobs created monthly and it's the worst economy ever? And you don't fight back? It was pathetic. Bush was terrible. Perry is worse.

102 It's obvious what Newt was doing for Fannie & Freddie -- telling them how to work the system. 

He wasn't lobbying.  He was teaching them how to be more effective at lobbying. 

He wasn't telling them how to run their business better.  He was telling them how to suck up to politicians better. 

But he's under a confidentiality agreement, so he can't talk about it, even if he wanted to. 

That's actually some pretty valuable consulting information, what with this fascist financial system we've got going here. 

103

These people don't want to be judged on these failures.

 . . . .

Newt is not a moderate.  He is not a RINO.  He is a pragmatist and he has my vote.

What if Newt was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us?

104 Republicans should have picked up more seats than they did (I believe it was essentially an even year in congress).

2004  +4 Senate +3 House so part okay, part very good.

105 Ooops.

106 Crap. Off icky sock.

107 I'm with you in the sense that I'd like Perry more. But it sure doesn't look like Perry is getting a bounce. So the Not-Romney is still Newt.

Still?

That happened yesterday.

108 Here's my take, the entire field has serious flaws. Romney isn't conservative, Perry can't debate and Newt has stupid ideas. For me it comes down to the guy who speaks of conservatism in a way most beneficial to the cause. That man is Newt Gingrich as of right now.

109 Perry at 4% in the polls.

His appeal has become more selective.


HOLD  FAST

110 Newt knows that if he wins, both the left and the right are going to be looking for an excuse to impeach him on day one.  He's gonna pick a really crappy veep as protection from us.

111 ** Bush **wouldn't** defend himself at all.** FIFY Even with the MSM and Tip Oneal (and Ted Kennedy helping the USSR) against him, Reagan still at least tried to use the bullypulpit.

112
Kerry and the MSM called that "the worst economy since the Great Depression".  They got away with it, too.

They call every Republican administration's economy that.... It was said for W's, Bush the elder's and the first two years of Reagans first term.  Im sure if you went to the library and fired up the micro-fiche, they said the same thing about Ford, Nixon, and Ike.

113 Is Newt- who has a recent history of being a Big Government conservative- really more conservative than Romney?

If so, what are his chances in the general election?

What bothers me about Gingrich is that a lot of his cozying up to Democrats and Big Government statements happened fairly recently when he was out of office.

If he's really as conservative as people argue then he should have been unfettered to be as conservative as he wants to be since he no longer had to appeal to an electorate that wasn't completely conservative. But no - he actually veered left.

Romney - who I have no great love for - at least has the excuse that he was governor of a very blue state and had to pander somewhat to an electorate with a lot of liberals. And once out of office his talk at least has moved to the right.

Gingrich and Romney are actually more similar that a lot of people want to believe - and I suspect they wouldn't govern all that differently. Gingrich is awesome at giving conservative red meat speeches to the base, but when the rubber meets the road, I have my doubts.

114 M-O-O-N..that spells....hold on I got this

115

All of the current candidates (with the exception of Cain and Paul) can beat Obama in the election.  Even the inarticulate stumblebum Perry would win in a landslide.  The thing about this election is that it is so “in the bag” for our side that it would be a shame to give the presidency away to someone who wonÂ’t (or canÂ’t) move the country where it needs to go.

116

Hmmm, remember when Newt was at 4% in the polls and Paul Ryan was a right wing social engineer, he went on a cruise in the middle of his campaign, and the rest of his dumfuckery?

I do and it will happen again soon, Newt thinks he's the smartest swinging dick since Einstein and will have to tell us all once more what dumbasses the rest of us are and he will drop like rock. Newt cares only about Newt and Newts ego.

117 Newt knows that if he wins, both the left and the right are going to be looking for an excuse to impeach him on day one. He's gonna pick a really crappy veep as protection from us. Posted by: Bob Saget at December 01, 2011 04:50 PM (SDkq3) Does Biden have a brother?

118

 He's gonna pick a really crappy veep as protection from us.

I understand Barney Frank is available.

119

Eh...esscuse me but, what happen to the Amazon widget??

sorry o/t.

 

120 106 Crap. Off icky sock.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 01, 2011 04:50 PM (pLTLS)

Would you like some Febreeze Pet Odor remover?

121 This blows a considerable hole in the Newt is BRILLIANT meme, eh? Or maybe he just isn't prescient?

122

none of this matters, Paul's going 3 rd party and sinking Newt/Romney.  Can't wait for the 3 man debates.

The marxist gets his second term.

123 Maet, you know, that's an interesting point. Gingrich is more red-meat in speeches than he is in policy. Whereas I think I'd actually prefer the latter.

124 if this were true Perry would have rocketed to the top.

Perry entered the race. Got into a debate. Fell on his face - in what was his coming out party. Did it again a week later, too. Forget about what he said (heartless - who cares. tuition for illegals - who cares), but the guy just didn't look good up there. He couldn't attack Romney on his weakest point (flip flops) without looking stupid. Remember when everyone thought he had a seizure on stage? At no point in any debate or interview have I felt he had command of the issues.

Perry, in theory, is a great candidate. In reality, he's not. It happens.

Don't hold onto him like people hold onto Palin.

125 Remember when the McCain campaign used to read Ace of Spades HQ to get the pulse of conservative voters?

No?

Time to hook yourself up with the Newt campaign Ace, they pay attention.

126 Regarding Ron Paul and Newt. Newt's plan in 1995 for '96 was to encourage Dems to switch parties. One who did was Greg Laughlin, who Paul then challenged in the primaries.  Then Paul used Gingrich's criticism of Laughlin when he was a Dem to defeat him. Newt was not pleased and let him know. As a previously serving congressman Paul was still stuck on the low level committees until a new Speaker was elected.

127 The way I read it, Newt was basically hired to make conservative-sounding arguments in favor of giving them more and more sweet, sweet no-strings-attached government cash.
And he did--as long as he got his cut.
Now sure, spin is that he didn't produce any papers for them. Right. But you really think they gave him all that cash for nothing? They got something for it.
Bottom line is: He gave them ways to talk to Republicans to sell the idea of keeping the government spigot open. They used his name when they called on Congressmen at the very least to get their foot in the door. And later to lend heft to their pitch.
Just like he did with global warming. Just like he did for the individual mandate.
Like was said yesterday at RedState: Newt has never had an idea pop in his head that he hasn't run to the local paper with.

Don't forget he has doubled down on the "right-wing social engineering" comment. And every GOP rep in a purple or blue-leaning district is going to be left swinging in the wind while the GOP Presidential nominee is the face and voice in ads attacking them. Great idea.

128 And...as far as Newt! goes with fannie/freddie, let it be repeated until the republic dies that, in 2008, both W and Mackerel failed to put the blame of freddie/fannie on the dems, thereby surrendering the narrative unilaterally. Thereby creating the mainstream understanding (i.e., the ignorant middle independents and the willfully and maliciously ignorant left) to think that this was all bush's fault, and therefore the GOP's, even though at least W and mackerel both tried to do some reforming of GSE's like fannie/freddie

129 Bush lost the popular vote in 2000 and considering that his opponent was such a dolt and that the political scene after 9/11 didnt exactly favour Dems, he did pretty bad in 2004. Imagine Bush without 9/11 and I think "one term potus". Perry seems to be heading into that direction and nobody wants that.

Correct.  In 2004, Bush won the lowest successful re-elect margin of any incumbent president in U.S. history.  This, in a favorable climate and against a hapless Dem jerk that together should have given him upwards of a ten-point margin.

And the real Bush Fatigue hadn't even started yet.  Today, Bush is still radioactive enough amongst the general populace that the half-life of his memory would still be more than sufficient to kill off any second-generation clones we tried to put up.

Still, if I thought Rick Perry was the only hope of coalescing a stop-Gingrich movement, I'd take him, because Newt Gingrich is guaranteed to lose a general election race against Obama while Perry is merely very likely to.

130 Paul's going 3 rd party and sinking Newt/Romney. Can't wait for the 3 man debates. The marxist gets his second term. Posted by: flyonthewall at December 01, 2011 04:52 PM (aZ7lL) Not according to Paul or his son

131 Sorry, Off Topic, and sorry if this has been brought up on previous threads, but: Drudge Headline: BIDEN ON IRAQ: 'We're not claiming victory'... This makes me want to f--king cry for the deaths and injuries suffered by military personal. These people made sacrifices and the damn democrats can't even give them the reward of being able to take pleasure in having brought about an actual VICTORY. It reminds me of Adam Carolla's rant about the OWS types being the result of a self esteem movement, where there are no winners and losers, and everyone gets a trophy. The bastard dems like Obama and Biden opposed the surge, said it would not work, and refused to apologize for their mistake when it DID work. And now they refuse to call it a VICTORY. I despise these people more each day they are in office. And I will vote for whatever republican gets the nomination. Even Huntsman. I'd hate it, but I'd swallow the bile of voting for Huntsman, just for the pleasure of watching Obama LOSE.

132

91 Entropy Well my fallback plan is Gary Johnson for Libertarian. But if I can't talk you loosers out of Romney, I doubt I'll have much luck with that.    

My fallback is winning the election, then put pressure on to get some of my desired policies enacted.  Let's be honest, your fallback is to re-elect Obama.

133 Yeah put your widget thingamabob back up. I have some shopping to do.

134 95 P.S., I really wish everyone would stop speaking of Fannie Mae as if it evil incarnate.  I bought my house as a foreclosure using a Fannie Mae Loan and was glad of it.  I have lived here for years and make my mortgage payment on time every month.

There are millions more happy customers just like myself.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at December 01, 2011 04:46 PM (uVlA4)

-------

They aren't evil - just their loan policies and perhaps the people running the organization are evil - that's all.  So, let's fire them all and then leave the building empty - then they won't be evil.  just sayin.

Seriously, we need to abolish Fanny and force all housing loans to be made by local banks and financial institutions.  There needs to be job verification and pee-in-a-cup background checks and at least 5% down before loan approval.  That would solve all the problems.

Oh, you can't afford to buy a house under those rules - Sorry. I.Don't.Care.

135 Gingrich has a better sense of National Security issues.... Mitt is well.

136 123 A conservative speaker brings the public to his side. The conservative congress can reign Newt in on policy.

137 and no one in the GOP had any dick on them hard enough to actually take on the shit storm that Barney Franks and the blacks on fannie/freddie before 2008 anyway. And if you read Architects of Ruin, you'll see that this cancer was growing for decades, and no one had any balls to stop it, so some GOP'rs like Newt! must have given in and taken their money, just to play ball a little instead of getting killed.

138 Gingrich is awesome at giving conservative red meat speeches to the base, but when the rubber meets the road, I have my doubts.

Newt reformed welfare. Balanced the budget. Cut taxes.

Romney thru people in jail for not having health insurance.

Of the two, It's not a tough choice.

139 I still hope for a revival of Perry's chances, but the chances are looking slimmer and dimmer. Besides all his stammering in the debates though, I've been wondering about another aspect of his entrance to the race -- his religious revivals/tent meetings he had early on after his announcement. Could those be a hidden down twinkle?
 
I know the thought crossed my mind that, uh oh, he's doing the Huckabee/Pat Robertson type stuff. Voters want believers, sure, but an evangelist is a different story. That is, except for the evangelical voting fraction -- which aren't pushing Perry very hard either. That's a bit puzzling to me as well. Perry should be doing better in Iowa just based on that.
 
I dunno, just thought I'd toss it out there.

140

none of this matters, Paul's going 3 rd party and sinking Newt/Romney. Can't wait for the 3 man debates.

The marxist gets his second term.

Posted by: flyonthewall at December 01, 2011 04:52 PM (aZ7lL)

 

from the looks of it, it's Gary Johnson instead of Paul with the possibility of Johnson dragging Ventura behind him

141 " I'm Newt Gingrich, and I approve this message (from the carbon neutral stainless steel and cruelty free leather couch in my hotel suite in the utopian future) because it's smart. Also, fuck the dumb, evil, lying, vulgar tools in press. If they kiss Obama's ass anymore it's probably gong to start bleeding. "

142 If Newt is nominated by the GOP it's a near certainty Ron Paul will go third party.

143 133 Yeah put your widget thingamabob back up. I have some shopping to do.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 01, 2011 04:54 PM (pLTLS)

I'd assume that the widget in the original post still works correct?

144 69

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is on Cavuto right now.....endorsing Rick Perry.

No shit?

I'm seeing an opening in the future....

------------

Yeah, he has also been endorsed by Sen. Jim Inhofe. ....Inhofe and Arpaio are probably the two most ardent 'close the damn border' guys in the whole country. And they both are endorsing Perry.

And yet, there are still those who are trying to portray Perry as being soft on illegal immigration.

145 Cain said White, who has alleged that she and Cain had a 13-year extramarital affair, told him that she did not have a job and was unable to get financial help from her family, "and that quite frankly, I was the only person who was a friend at the time - and I underscore ‘friend' - that was in a position to help her.

"I'm a soft-hearted person when it comes to that stuff. I have helped members of my church. I have helped members of my family. 
http://tinyurl.com/crnsx8e

Cain declined to identify the exact "position" and refused to discuss the state of his other organs.

146 If Newt is nominated by the GOP it's a near certainty Ron Paul will go third party. Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at December 01, 2011 04:56 PM (qi5w5) Why?

147 lorien1973 Did you watch all of the debates personally? If so what's Romney's position on Pakistan?

148 Posted by: Mætenloch at December 01, 2011 04:51 PM (pAlYe)

I think in general you're right.

My theory (hope?) is that we'll get some more conservative action out of Newt than Mitt if for no other reason than Newt will owe his political resurrection to conservatives. Mitt? Not so much at this point.

Also, Newt actually has some track record of doing things conservatives like (topped by welfare reform). Mitt? Again, not so much.

It's thin but that's what I got.

149 **Maet, you know, that's an interesting point. Gingrich is more red-meat in speeches than he is in policy.** Look, reagan was great and all, but Newt's reign a speaker brought real hope and change we can believe in, forcing welfare reform down clinton's throat. But, yes, if we are going to say Romney's a RINO, then we should at least understand Newt!'s failings too. He was on Rush a few months ago and defended his shit well enough, it seems his brain at least understands most conservative thoughts.

150

This "Ron Paul" fellow reminds me a lot of Adams.

That is not a compliment.

151 Correct.  In 2004, Bush won the lowest successful re-elect margin of any incumbent president in U.S. history.  This, in a favorable climate and against a hapless Dem jerk that together should have given him upwards of a ten-point margin.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 01, 2011 04:53 PM (W8x1p)

Exactly.  Bush only finally managed to eke it out because he refused to surrender in Iraq and because the Swift Boat Vets exposed Kerry for the slimeball he is.  Other than that, Bush would have easily blown what should have been a 10 point+ blowout.

152

I'm ready to make my comeback and save the Republic.

Oh, hey, is that a squirrel over there? I like squirrels!

*yawn* Nappy time. Nite nite.

153 Among the least-compelling arguments possible, at least to me, is the "the common man *LIKES* dummies and screw-ups" claim.

I see this trotted out a good deal. It's not a good argument.

if this were true Perry would have rocketed to the top.

Posted by: ace at December 01, 2011 04:46 PM (nj1bB)

They want wise guy who can admit he's made mistakes, like we all have (implication that "we" are wise).

Not Homer Simpson.

154 146 If Newt is nominated by the GOP it's a near certainty Ron Paul will go third party.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at December 01, 2011 04:56 PM (qi5w5)

Is that necessarily a bad thing? He might peel off the crazies from both parties and balance things out.

155

Let's be honest,

Well then lets.

your fallback is to re-elect Obama.

Make up your mind. Which do you want?

156 146 If Newt is nominated by the GOP it's a near certainty Ron Paul will go third party.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at December 01, 2011 04:56 PM (qi5w5)

Why?

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 01, 2011 04:56 PM (i6RpT)

See comment 125. Paul and Newt have a _long_ history of not liking each other.

157

Personality is a part of this as well.

Romney is just a little off. He looks and sounds presidential, yet you still can't quite place why it doesn't seem to come together. From some of his behaviors in debates and interviews, I think it is because he isn't as good as staying composed as he could be. He is actually stuggling to stay in character and when he is frustrated, it seems unusual. It just makes him look that much more shifty and untrustworthy.

His faults aside, Gingrich rose to leadership quickly and sounds authoritative. He projects the right image. He probably doesn't lie or change his mind any less than Romney, but he stays composed doing it.

158 Trying to put my finer on/in something here.... Is there any sense that Mitt has the ability and some past record of persuading the mushy middle, to support or at least sympathize with conservative reasoning? I think that's what sticks in conservatives craws about those old videos of Mitts, when the going got tough he joined them. I am familiar with his opeds as Governor, about his writings on abortion and gay marriage. And of course the Boston globe and Massachusetts gaystopos/feminazis aren't exactly what you would call "fertile ground" open to conservative reasoning. So while I think Mitt would have some better luck nationally, it seems clear he lacks a certain type of charisma and sharp tongue/wit that can slay the invaders and win over many of the villagers. I think this is a common undercurrent of where hopes for Newt are coming from. That's the guys who are pickup artists/salesmen/serial adulterers are so good at politics... they know how to blow into a room and cast a spell. It sounds bad but its why Mitt/Palin/Hillary/Bachmann get outshined but the seductive spellcasters.

159

I'm kind of annoyed that Perry isn't a comfortable 3rd but it is what it is. Dinner is going to be Lima beans, but it's better than cold porridge.

160 And yet, there are still those who are trying to portray Perry as being soft on illegal immigration.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 01, 2011 04:56 PM (Qli+Q)

And yet when asked about what he do with the illegals here he said "I don't know".

My guess is he'd be as squishy at Newt but Perry doesn't have the balls to say it.

161 Jeopardy at December 01, 2011 04:57 PM (rJVPU)

For the most part. I watched the first 2 most intently and after the first Perry one, I got Bush flashbacks. After the second I was done with him.

No clue - I will never vote for Romney, unless it's in the general and I'll kick myself in the nuts after doing so. I'll presume it's the same as everyone else's. Pretend we are friends when are not. That's been the lie for the past 10 years.

162 Newt just told ABC news "I will be the nominee".

163 i meant "I think I'd prefer the reverse," of course.

164

Everything Drew said plus this...

Mitt won't pander to me. Not even a little.

Newt will.

Question: If Mitt isn't willing to pander to the conservative base, how likely is he to fight for what we want while in office?

Answer: Very little.

How much will Newt fight for us? Not all the way, but considerably more, I'm guessing.

Plus he seems to enjoy a good fight.

165 Is that necessarily a bad thing? He might peel off the crazies from both parties and balance things out.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at December 01, 2011 04:59 PM (RD7QR)

Only if Paul goes full bore Troofer. That being said I understand the Green Party is seriously looking for a major name because Obama has fulfilled his socialist promises to them. A fourway!

166 Gingrich would look more presidential with a healthy orange glow.  Like mine.

167 Ah yes. Jesse Ventura: * sort of almost but not quite really an ex-navy SEAL ... * wrestler/actor/governor of Minnesota * Says Christians are weak minded and stupid * Goes on Coast to Coast Radio and speculates that the US government either blew up the World Trade Center or let it happen Yeah, good stuff.

168 I forgot that Newt had been hit by Ethics violations while in the house. That is a BIG one - perhaps much more than anything else.

What do you do when the 'Bamster trots that one out? Sure you can try to defend against it, but the fact is that it is THERE, and a lot of people are going to consider him untrustworthy, especially when look at his record after that.

I'm not sure Gingrich is 'The One'. It seems that all roads for me are leading back to Rick Perry. The stuff he has said or done - none of it looks really bad when compared to Newt, Mitt, or Cain, and he strikes me as much more real and actually honest.

169 ***Let's be honest, Well then lets. your fallback is to re-elect Obama. Make up your mind. Which do you want?*** Yeah, let's reelect Obama, and then live through a 50 year cycle of depression and low growth like our grandparents did, just to die or be retired when the future reagan shows up in 2080 to bring back real prosperity.

170
Newt just challenged himself to a debate.

171 Gingrich.: Elect me because I'm hardly ever wrong about things on the 2nd try.

172

Yeah, he has also been endorsed by Sen. Jim Inhofe. ....Inhofe and Arpaio are probably the two most ardent 'close the damn border' guys in the whole country. And they both are endorsing Perry.

Tom Tancredo for the hat trick? He endorse anyone yet?

173 159

I'm kind of annoyed that Perry isn't a comfortable 3rd but it is what it is. Dinner is going to be Lima beans, but it's better than cold porridge.

Posted by: Max Power at December 01, 2011 05:00 PM (q177U)

I fucking HATE lima beans.

174 Election 2012:  Which Scumbag Do You Trust Most?

175 "Seriously, we need to abolish Fanny and force all housing loans to be made by local banks and financial institutions. There needs to be job verification and pee-in-a-cup background checks and at least 5% down before loan approval. That would solve all the problems." You mean the way it was before Barney Frank et al decided that people who could not afford a mortgage had a right to home ownership as opposed to renting? People who have no down payment should rent for awhile. What are they supposed to do when the house (money pit) needs a new roof, new hot water heater, tree removed?

176 Perry? PERRY? That fucker is toast. Shit, he's at 4% and falling. No one hears him or sees him anymore. He's not coming back up for air, folks. You can't even see any bubbles coming up now. It's over.

177 159

I'm kind of annoyed that Perry isn't a comfortable 3rd but it is what it is. Dinner is going to be Lima beans, but it's better than cold porridge.

Posted by: Max Power at December 01, 2011 05:00 PM (q177U)

Put the lima beans in a marinara and they'll be delicious.

178 >>> it seems his brain at least understands most conservative thoughts. I cannot fault him on general brains or policy interest, that's for sure.

179 See comment 125. Paul and Newt have a _long_ history of not liking each other.

It doesn't matter, though. Most Paul voters are really Obama voters. This was shown in 2008 and the lack of anything remotely similar to the Paulnuts in 2012 on reinforces that notion.

180 As I've said before, Newt is the Wizard of Fucking Oz, and this country needs far more than a plastic toy heart, a diploma and a medal for The Cowardly Lion.
We do however, need someone that can transport this country back to The heartland before the corruptocrat debt tornado.
I can't think of anyone in my lifetime, and that's 5 plus decades, who is more full of shit than Newt.
While I now have my doubts that the GOP is the ultimate remedy for our mess, Snake Oil Newt will destroy it far more completely than what Odumdum has done to the commie party. 

181 Should  have been "Obama hasn't"

182 let's write in Inhofe

183 There will be no couches in the Gingrich Administration.

184 Well Newt just guaranteed victory. Hello Joe Namath. OK fine, I got no problem with confidence, now prove it and don't stumble

185

Yeah, let's reelect Obama, and then live through a 50 year cycle of depression and low growth like our grandparents did, just to die or be retired when the future reagan shows up in 2080 to bring back real prosperity.

Blah blah blah.

Did you have a point to make with regard to anything I said?

186 Compare and contrast Newt and Mitt's major policy achievements:

Mitt:  RomneyCare

Newt: Welfare Reform

Advantage: Newt

187 I've yet to have heard Barney Frank, who according to liberal journalists is oh, so brilliant, explain how a poor person is going to pay for a new roof on his house.

188 Gingrich would look more presidential with a healthy orange glow.  Like mine.

Posted by: Huntsman at December 01, 2011 05:01 PM (QKKT0)

It worked for me.

189 Also, Newt actually has some track record of doing things conservatives like (topped by welfare reform). Mitt? Again, not so much.

It's thin but that's what I got.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 01, 2011 04:58 PM (dXPup)

Yeah I'll give Gingrich credit for a lot of what he accomplished as speaker (as well as building a house majority). But I also have to discount it as well since it's easy to be conservative when you come from a red district in a red state and have a GOP majority in both the house and senate. So I like the 90's Gingrich a lot better than the 2000's Gingrich he became once he was out of congress.

190 ABR,ABO  Embrace the suck.

191

163 Newt just told ABC news "I will be the nominee".

Yeah, Vic, I think that a lot of people have forgotten how quickly Newt gets puffed up and full of himself, when he is getting lots of attention.

192 Dana Perino just predicted Perry will make a comeback.

193 and you know what? Maybe the GOP can do the soft bum's rush on global warming. sure, I know it's bunk and won't spend a cent on it, but Huntsman* and Newt! at least seem to be on the track of giving it lip-service and then DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT. which is winning! as far as I am concerned in terms of real world effect. I guess I can't sit around and expect satisfaction that the other side gives up, admits they were wrong and goes home.

194 I'd assume that the widget in the original post still works correct?

Thanks.

but pssssst....ace or someone, you should put this back in the sidebar

195

 A fourway!

That would be spectacular.

We might actually get Gary Johnson elected.

196 Man, something better start looking up with this Band of Buttheads.  Otherwise the amount of tequila I'll need to get through the next 14 months will destroy my liver and those of all around me, just through proximity.

197 176 "Seriously, we need to abolish Fanny and force all housing loans to be made by local banks and financial institutions. There needs to be job verification and pee-in-a-cup background checks and at least 5% down before loan approval. That would solve all the problems."

You mean the way it was before Barney Frank et al decided that people who could not afford a mortgage had a right to home ownership as opposed to renting?

People who have no down payment should rent for awhile. What are they supposed to do when the house (money pit) needs a new roof, new hot water heater, tree removed?

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 01, 2011 05:03 PM (2oBun)

--

Exactly - well said.  Also, if you have no personal investment in the property, it's too easy to just walk away - which is exactly what has happened. We'll be paying for Barney's feel-good BS for a long, long time....as well as our kids, grandkids and probably great grandkids.  It's a cryin shame.

Best bumper sticker ever - "Honk if I'm paying for your mortgage". 

198 194 Dana Perino just predicted Perry will make a comeback.

Posted by: Vic at December 01, 2011 05:05 PM (YdQQY)

Did she have a basis for that assertion or just a gut feeling? Because I'm thinking he really has flatlined.

199 Dana Perino just predicted Perry will make a comeback. Posted by: Vic at December 01, 2011 05:05 PM (YdQQY) Yeah right as soon as the NY Mets play the Chicago Cubs for the National League Title

200 If Newt is nominated by the GOP it's a near certainty Ron Paul will go third party. Doesn't that get him booted out of whatever cushy assignments he's got in Congress? I mean, he already is his own third party, but what does have to gain?

201

I can't think of anyone in my lifetime, and that's 5 plus decades, who is more full of shit than Newt.

Two words:  Nancy Pelosi.

202 I've no doubt they will all make a come back.  This game of musical chairs isn't over by a long shot.

203

Newt just got caught lying.  Here's the problem with this:

Now Newt is saying he changed his view after the collapse of Freddie Mac that he didn't know was coming.  Except here's what he said earlier:

For some reason I can't use any link, even a tinyurl but it's at Verum Serum, Google it as there's the video there, as well.

More Newt: As a Professor of History I Knew Freddie Mac was Headed for Collapse (As I Accepted Cash to Publicly Defend Them)

Newt really has some explaining to do over this, because there is no getting around the fact that he leveraged his credibility to publicly defend Fannie Mac and the government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) model in general, at a time when he now claims it was “clear” to him that the market was headed for trouble. It would be bad enough if had done this as an independent commentator, but we now know he received over a million dollars in consulting fees for services he provided to Freddie Mac.

Either he knew Freddie MacÂ’s lending practices were contributing to an unsustainable housing bubble headed for collapse, as he now claims, and yet accepted money to publicly defend them anyway. On their web site. Or he is now stretching the truth about his assessment of Freddie MacÂ’s problems at the time, and the advice he privately gave to their management.

Neither of these scenarios are very good. And I want to make it clear, I am not anti-Newt. What I am is pro-victory in 2012 and as far as I am concerned all of these types of things need to be fully aired and addressed now.

204 Entropy, I'm sorry, my point is that backing a 3rd party Libertarian means electing Obama.  Let's not.  Let's win, and work with what we have.  That's all we can do.

205 fake ANG memo and a MFM in the tank at December 01, 2011 05:03 PM (c9Ivb)

Look at the polls prior to that. The ANG memo didn't do anything, but put a cherry on Rather's career. Bush was an idiot. 5% unemployment and 500,000 jobs a month and you let John F'in Kerry pin the "worst economy ever" on you? You're a retard.

Jobless recovery? 500,000 jobs a month, sub 5% unemployment? And you let it slide. Bullshit.

I hated Bush for being unable to defend himself. It was maddening.

206 "Dana Perino just predicted Perry will make a comeback." Dana Perino is a fucking idiot. She's an example of how good looks can get you far in life. I've never heard her express an original thought. Ever.

207

I can't think of anyone in my lifetime, and that's 5 plus decades, who is more full of shit than Newt.

Two words:  Nancy Pelosi.

Three words: Barack Husein Obama

208 Gingrich '12:  I actually learn, dammit!

209 Since we're all trying to find positive things to say about Newt, you can't deny that he knows his way around Congress like nobody else.  Compared to President Go-Hide-In-My-Study-At-4 p.m., Newt would be deeply involved in legislation and is likely to actually get things done in Congress. 

With a Tea Party foot in his back, they might even be some good things.

210 It will be Gingrich/Bachman

211 Tricia at December 01, 2011 05:08 PM (gqG91)

Yes, I believe his involvement with FM is Newt's biggest problem in 2012. Above the divorces and the ethics stuff. It's something he needs to address.

212 Newt isn't mitt romney and he can string whole sentences together without looking like a stuttering dolt, he's got my vote. i'm thinking Perry is teh Fred 2.0 and i don't understand that collapse the second time around either.

213 Doesn't that get him booted out of whatever cushy assignments he's got in Congress? I mean, he already is his own third party, but what does have to gain?

Posted by: t-bird at December 01, 2011 05:07 PM (FcR7P)

He's not running for congress again

214

The reason I can't vote for him.  He thinks government is the answer. 

There will be blood.

215

Breaking News...It is 1979 over again:  In a newly released audio message, al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri claims that his organization is holding hostage Warren Weinstein, a 70-year-old American who went missing last August in Pakistan. Zawahiri's statement is the first official claim of responsibility by any group in relation to the kidnapping. Barack (James) Hussein (Earl) Obama (Carter)..........MMMMM.....MMMMM....MMMMM !!!!

216 Rumor has it that if Paul runs third party that Trump will also run.  I'm not sure of the political high jinx with that but that's what I've heard.

217 Entropy, I'm sorry, my point is that backing a 3rd party Libertarian means electing Obama. Let's not. Let's win, and work with what we have. That's all we can do.

Posted by: bernverdnardo at December 01, 2011 05:08 PM (xXhWA)

 

So blind allegiance to a party or bust?

218 He's not running for congress again Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at December 01, 2011 05:11 PM (qi5w5) His son said on national tv that his father is NOT running as a third party. Now Ron Paul may not be running for congress again but if he dared run as a third party candidate and that knee capped the Republican Candidate, that would sure as hell fuck his son Rand but good.

219 Oh for goodness sake

220 I'm not sure of the political high jinx with that but that's what I've heard.

Posted by: merry at December 01, 2011 05:12 PM (oZfic)

Spare us.

221 Newt instructs team this morning to focus on Obama and not attack other candidates.

222 114 M-O-O-N..that spells....hold on I got this

Posted by: Rick Perry at December 01, 2011 04:51 PM (u7cdn)

Perry/Cullen 2012!

223 What do you do when the 'Bamster trots that one out? Obama, bringing up ethics violations? That would be rich. I'd pay to see that, if they keep the cameras rolling until Newt is done.

224 Here's the thing, Romney is good in the debates and I think he has what it takes to win against the JEF. It's that I know he won't govern anywhere near the conservative he pretends to be, that's what scares me. And that he will kill down-ticket races through lack of enthusiasm for him.

Newt, on the other hand: Good in the debates and I know he will govern as a conservative. But, he can't win, he's stockpiled way too much ammo for the left over the years. We'll get a mash-up of "wither on the vine" and "right-wing social engineering" retro punk beat that will cover the airways. That will sink him and all the down-ticket races.

225 222 Rumor has it that if Paul runs third party that Trump will also run. I'm not sure of the political high jinx with that but that's what I've heard.

Posted by: merry at December 01, 2011 05:12 PM (oZfic)

Which one of your cats meowed this to you dumbass?

226 Rick Perry: "I'm not a draft dodger, can Mitt or Newt say that?"

227 He's not running for congress again Oops, thanks. Now it makes a lot more sense.

228 Pretend we are friends when are not. That's been the lie for the past 10 years. Correct. As for the debates I've watched all of them-except the Cain -Gingrich thing. I could only do ten minutes. After one of the debates the spin was-Perry fell asleep towards the end. That was the post- debate spin. I noticed that Conservative media types said they had not watched it they were busy -but they went with the "opinion" of others. I think NRO was prepping for a cruise. Thing of it is-I recorded it-and the very last question towards the end of that particular debate-Perry had answered as well if not better than anyone. Plus-the first couple of debates Perry was really assaulted by a unified screaming brigade of ninnies on the Gardisal issue.... People blame Michelle Bachmann but-Rick Santorum actually went unhinged.... Mitt hasn't had the others go after him as the real front runner-in fact if you remember that was what many were upset with Pawlenty about. It's been a "hands-off" policy and the first one to take Romney to the hoops-ironically-has been Bret Baier. That was one on one -and Romney didn't do that well. There was no referee for Romney to appeal to-like Anderson Cooper -which was a technique Romney actually deployed in one debate.

229 Speaking of meow'ing, did you see the OWS goofs meow'ing in LA?

230 "People blame Michelle Bachmann but-Rick Santorum actually went unhinged.... " They both suck.

231 Anyone listening to McConnell on Hannity?   when they say "but look we control one third of the government" it means we are getting screwed.

232 226 al It can't spare us, it's a "tourettes typist"

233 @Drew, Mitt also did some good work at the end with the government albatross of the "big dig." (fun story the left will bring up... Mitt referred to the big dig as a "tar baby" as did John Kerry)

234 In short I think there is a Myth of Mitt as a great debater -he's not going to get the special treatment that he's grown accustomed to when faced with Obama.

235 238 226 al

It can't spare us, it's a "tourettes typist"

Posted by: Phoenixgirl (oZfic) is cat piss at December 01, 2011 05:16 PM (nzial)

Making fun of people with tourettes?  think it's funny?   You are not a very nice person but then you know that.

236 We'll take Gingrich. Doesn't matter to us.

237 High atop his gielfriend's mom's apartment in New York, Jeff B. spreads his leathery pissflaps and shrieks in rage at the possibility of a Gingrich nomination.

238

So lets see how this primary shapes up:

1 - Mitt Frontrunner

2 - not-Romney candidate starts getting ahead

3- not-Romney guy tore down

4- Mitt Frontrunner again

5- new not-Romney candidate starts getting ahead

6 - that none-Romney is tore down

7- Mitt Frontrunner again

8- another new not-Romney candidate starts getting ahead

9 - that guy is tore-down too

10 - Mitt Frontrunner again

11- one last chance to not have Romney guy comes in and we're in the process of tearing him dowb

12?- Romney wins nomination, purists bitch why did we pick him

239 Blue Hen! I missed you! and, yes - very good points there at post 220. I'm not chiming in b/c I'm really at sea with this right now. I'm in PA anyway so I'll just wait and see what happens, I guess.

240
This primary race reminds me of when Captain Kirk fought the Gorn.

Except there are 6 Gorns and no Kirks.

241 '
Ace. It's not just that Perry was liberal in the past and said some unconservative stuff.

It's that he can't chew gum and walk. At least in a debate and maybe in interviews and oh yeah he has trouble remembering the voter laws at personal appearances.

Stuff like that.

He's like the president of the audio/visual club in school suddenly being asked to give a speech at the HS convo.

"uhhhhhhh, {cough, cough} ummmmmm. HI! My name is Pick Derry. Ohhhhhh geeezz."

Honestly, we had great hopes but he spat on them and crushed them and then said "uhhhh, I'm sorry?"

We just didn't have as much invested in him as you do.

Listen, you'll get over this. There's plenty of fish in the sea and all that. Someone will come along someday and it'll be all you ever dreamed of. Really. Honestly. I wouldn't lie to you.

Now how about a nice long post, hmm? A real navel gazer. You'll feel better.

242

So blind allegiance to a party or bust?  Posted by: The Dude at December 01, 2011 05:12 PM (M8yfa)    

Thow out the Marxist or bust.

243

They break stories over there

 

Overrated.

244

On a COMPLETELY different subject:

For 25 Days of Christmas, I'm giving music....My Advent Calendar of Music - Day #1: Anticipation: http://t.co/6W2XE5zC

245 Making fun of people with tourettes?  think it's funny?   You are not a very nice person but then you know that.

Burn, man.

246 Which one of your cats meowed this to you dumbass?

The one with two heads, but it was the head that thinks it's Xenu, not the Elvis head.

247 Well, they don't want perry, cain or romney, or bachman.... who is left, gingrich or paul or santorum. Gingrich mostly learns from his mistakes, but doesn't have a firm theoretical foundation. Paul has a good foundation, but lacks support of the Ace-types. Santorum makes the moderates /really/ squeamish.

248

the irony of the cat piss demanding apologies for making jokes about people's handicaps is priceless

249 As for the debates I've watched all of them-except the Cain -Gingrich thing. I could only do ten minutes.

That debate was Gingrich showing how stupid Cain was, without Cain even realizing it. It was really quite sad to see Cain up there. He had no idea.

I've liked Newt ever since the first debate; but I still worry he's unelectable. But I'm, partially, banking on the idea that things are different this cycle and ideas matter - whereas personality has won too many of these things in the past.

Newt won't win on likability; face it. He should really play into that, too. "Hey, you won't have TMZ following me around on date night with Callista, but I'll be fixing Washington."

I simply cannot see the point of nominating Romney. It takes Obamacare off the table completely. And, for the most part, the expansion of government. What does Romney hit Obama with? He spent $10 billion more than I would have? Um, okay.

250

Meh. I live in California, so my presidential vote isn't going to mean anything, anyway. You folks'll sort it out for me.

 

251 I'm not chiming in b/c I'm really at sea with this right now. I'm in PA anyway so I'll just wait and see what happens, I guess.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 01, 2011 05:18 PM (SB0V2)

lucky, im in FL and we'll prob end up deciding the direction of the primary. I dont need this pressure!

252

Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

The Not-Romney gun is almost out of bullets.  Gotta aim now.  No time for potshots.

253 192 ABR,ABO  Embrace the suck.

Posted by: toby928� Perrykrishna with tattooed knuckles at December 01, 2011 05:05 PM (IfkGz)

Thread winner....

254 In a newly released audio message, al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri claims that his organization is holding hostage Warren Weinstein, a 70-year-old American who went missing last August in Pakistan. Zawahiri's statement is the first official claim of responsibility by any group in relation to the kidnapping. "I tell the captive soldiers of Al Qaeda and the Taliban and our female prisoners held in the prisons of the crusaders and their collaborators, we have not forgotten you and in order to free you we have taken hostage the Jewish American Warren Weinstein," says Zawahiri in the 30-minute statement, which appeared on jihadi websites Thursday and otherwise focuses mainly on the situation in his native Egypt. The leader of Al Qaeda addresses Weinstein's family, telling them that "your government tortures our prisoners, but we have not tortured your prisoner." He also warns them not to trust President Obama's assurances that everything is being done to secure Weinstein's release, accusing the president of wishing "[Weinstein] would be killed to get rid of his problem." In exchange for Weinstein's release, Zawahiri requests the lifting of the Israeli "siege" of the Gaza strip, the complete end of "bombings by America and its allies in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia and Gaza," the release of all al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners and the closing down of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo bay, Cuba, in addition to the release of members of Osama bin Laden's family. Ah Goodbye Weinstein

255

OT

Leftard brains can never die, for they never lived.

256

>>Two words:  Nancy Pelosi.

Three words: Barack Husein Obama

Posted by: DrewM. at December 01, 2011 05:09 PM (dXPup)

_{While I am second to no man in contempt for each of those American hating, corrupt, crony capitalists, they are the model of consistency when compared to Newt Bing Bing Bing Ricochet Rabbit Gingrich.}

_{He talks purty behind the curtain but there will always be a Toto around to expose his empty BS.}

257 In exchange for Weinstein's release, Zawahiri requests the lifting of the Israeli "siege" of the Gaza strip, the complete end of "bombings by America and its allies in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia and Gaza," the release of all al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners and the closing down of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo bay, Cuba, in addition to the release of members of Osama bin Laden's family.

Ah Goodbye Weinstein

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 01, 2011 05:22 PM (i6RpT)

How 'bout we just release some big ass bombs over Pokeestan.

258 and...at this point, Christine O'Donnell could win in 2012, so let's not over think this (although, let's try to not make the election that interesting). Romney's apparently a RINO because of Romneycare, even though the whole point of federalism is that the states are labs for experimentation (although the DNC is making blue states anchors to drags us all down with, as we have to subsidize their union thug employee's $150K pensions and double dipping). Newt!'s revolution is just as important as Reagan's. There are also other viable candidates, and some that aren't so viable, like Perry and Cain.

259 261 They want him arrested in Africa? Priceless. They love him over there. Unlike Obama.

Funny, that.

260 al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri claims that his organization is holding hostage Warren Weinstein, a 70-year-old American who went missing last August in Pakistan

Not to be harsh or anything, but if your name is Weinstein and you go to Pakistan, you're on your own, bub.  I'm not interested in risking the lives of our military to bail out this sort of idiocy.

261 What a lying sack of shit. No wonder he is in a "no attack" mode.  His flank is more exposed than the SCoaMF's angry inch in a limo with Larry Sinclair.  VS indicts, convicts, draws and quarters the Newt.  Heaven forbid the POS continues with the big mo'.  Perry, Mittens and the rest should cluster bomb Iowa and NH with this. Stat.

262 Children, can you say "fuck the U.N.?

263 What a boring news day.  Hey Ace, any chance you could throw up a couple pics and just make up a story?

264 al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri claims that his organization is holding hostage Warren Weinstein, a 70-year-old American who went missing last August in Pakistan Not to be harsh or anything, but if your name is Weinstein and you go to Pakistan, you're on your own, bub. I'm not interested in risking the lives of our military to bail out this sort of idiocy. Posted by: Greece at December 01, 2011 05:25 PM (6TB1Z) My last name ends in 'stein" also, but I'm with you on this one

265 Is someone going to issue an Amber Alert for Rick Perry? He's gone missing before but someone always finds him wandering around town and gives him a ride home. We've haven't seen him for days now and we're really worried.

266 It's been a crazy day (and I think I'll be buried until I get to go home), so I just wanted to say "thanks" to the 'rons and 'ettes who have dropped by the new blog.  I may post some other stuff between now and then, but my next "Simple Truth" post should be up Monday morning.

267 What a lying sack of shit. No wonder he is in a "no attack" mode. His flank is more exposed than the SCoaMF's angry inch in a limo with Larry Sinclair. VS indicts, convicts, draws and quarters the Newt. Heaven forbid the POS continues with the big mo'. Perry, Mittens and the rest should cluster bomb Iowa and NH with this. Stat.

Posted by: observer at December 01, 2011 05:25 PM (nf2zJ)

and this is how we lose elections and/or get stuck w/ Romney

268 Greece = pep

269 Is someone going to issue an Amber Alert for Rick Perry?

He's gone missing before but someone always finds him wandering around town and gives him a ride home. We've haven't seen him for days now and we're really worried.

Posted by: Anita Perry at December 01, 2011 05:26 PM (AF1jB)

ma'am it's over

270 But I'm, partially, banking on the idea that things are different this cycle and ideas matter. I really don't have that much faith in the electorate.

271 I forgot that Newt had been hit by Ethics violations while in the house. That is a BIG one - perhaps much more than anything else.

It only took a single term as Speaker before Newt racked the ethics violation up, the first and only sitting Speaker to do so.

It only took two terms as Speaker before he had to resign from the House in disgrace, unwanted by the very party he'd led back into the majority only four years before.

In those four years Newt was successfully framed by the media as the Apotheosis of Republican Evil.  A lot of people pushing Newt now seem to have forgotten the '90s, but there are plenty of independents out there who will have their memories of Newt jogged easily enough, whether for the right or the wrong reasons.

And the worst thing about Newt is that he provided more than enough of the right reasons all by himself.

272 They want him arrested in Africa? Priceless. They love him over there. Unlike Obama.

My short experience in Kenya with Africans was that they detested American blacks in general.

273  Get ready for the race victim industry to shift into high gear!

"Really poor children, in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works so they have no habit of showing up on Monday," Gingrich claimed.

"They have no habit of staying all day, they have no habit of I do this and you give me cash unless it is illegal," he added.

274 "There was no referee for Romney to appeal to-like Anderson Cooper -which was a technique Romney actually deployed in one debate.

Posted by: Jeopardy at December 01, 2011 05:15 PM (rJVPU)"

Yup.  That was pathetic.  His interview sucks too, but his 'I was running for office for Pete's sake' and 'save me, Anderson Cooper, from the mean Republicans!' was much worse.

You can't so obviously nod to liberal journalists to save you Mitt.  They won't even want to over the nomination.

275 @273
Maybe it's the scotch, but I find your comment to be completely opaque.  I have no idea what you're trying to say.  Yeah, it's the scotch.

276 It seems your piece has stirred up some latent ill-will with the HotAir Sarah-bots.

277 Mitt is a very weak debater just watch the tapes from the 08 debates. The media believes they can spend a year alynski'ing Mormonism into the ground and save Obama that way. They are probably right.

278 Latent nothing

279 I'm beginning to worry that Obama will be re-elected. How did we end up with such a shitty group of Candidates? They all stink on ice..

280 I think we can all agree that Mutt Romney sucks ass, right? We're all on that bandwagon now, correct?

281

I can't wait to see Mittens asks a liberal reporter to save him again, and the liberal reporter scoops him up in his protective arms, only to be drawn and quartered by Gingrich before he hits the ground and poor mittens falls into the mud and gets all dirty.

Cornbrero begs moderators to save him, The Masterdebator just eats them for lunch with a glass of chianti and some fava beans.

282 From what I have read on the internet Perry has given many good speeches and interviews lately, yet they never get mentioned by the MSM-including Fox.  I think that if  he got any attention his numbers would soar.  His commercials are great, his flat tax makes sense, and his record is indisputable.  I remain in the Perry camp.

283 So we gonna have a tread about Bobby Valentine being named manager of the Boston Red Soxs?

284

The media has had Perry on 'ignore'.....except for when he makes a gaffe.

It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well. They are heavily invested in beltway politics and don't want an outsider like Perry coming in and upsetting their cash cow situation.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 01, 2011 04:42 PM (Qli+Q)

Bingo.

285 From what I have read on the internet Perry has given many good speeches and interviews lately, yet they never get mentioned by the MSM-including Fox. I think that if he got any attention his numbers would soar. His commercials are great, his flat tax makes sense, and his record is indisputable. I remain in the Perry camp. Posted by: chillin the most for Perry at December 01, 2011 05:35 PM (6IV8T) Scratching head? You must be watching a different RicK Perry than I am

286 "The economic climate no longer enables Newman/Haas Racing to participate in open wheel racing at this time," said Carl Haas, owner and co-founder of Newman/Haas Racing.

Just wow.

287 nevergiveup What's the last Perry interview-that you've seen?

288 About Perry, look at the time frames previous bubble cycles of candidates. Even if today a picture of Newt at a donkey show came out and the herd instantly began turning to Perry I don't think he would hit full stride until sometime around Nevadas' primary. It may not be too late, but seriously turning even an anxious and skittish herd takes weeks.

289 "It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well. They are heavily invested in beltway politics and don't want an outsider like Perry coming in and upsetting their cash cow situation." You're most likely correct. They do this to candidates all the time on both sides of the aisle. They did it to Howard Dean over that screaming thing. I mean, we joke about it and it's funny to bring up but that was absolutely incredible they could tank someone with such weaksauce. They're the ones calling the shots, no doubt about it. The problem with Perry is that he shot himself in the foot early on and reloaded to shoot himself again. And again. And again. He definitely made it easier for the media to pull one of their silence jobs.

290 It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well.

Yes, I'm sure they stay up late at night working on strategies to thwart him.   Please explain how their current policy of ignoring him would change if they saw him as utterly irrelevant to the primaries?

291 nevergiveup What's the last Perry interview-that you've seen? Posted by: Jeopardy at December 01, 2011 05:38 PM (rJVPU) I see him on TV all the time, Interviews, commercials, and debates. Sorry I am not impressed. Hey I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, almost sight unseen, since I like others was desperate for a "real" conservative, but he has greatly disappointed me.

292 Newt doesn't even have a handle on his jewelry store debt, but he's the right guy to get us solvent again.
Riiiiight

Even Mitt would be a less dangerous nominee, but it would be better if Perry somehow could find his voice and steady his campaign, because this is a nightmare.

293

And I'm still voting for Perry.  Newt was my second choice but with all the stuff I've been hearing and reading, I dunno.

294

re: Bobby Valentine.  I don't know what kind of amanger he is.  Whenever I think about him, I think about the time he snuck back into the dugout after getting thrown out wearing Groucho classes.

That's class like they can't teach you at Vassar.

295 devilish

The consensus here is that published essays, interviews, public addresses with question/answer are more informative than playing up to the twisted media "debate" which the public distrusts, anyway. Just as Totus Obama could duck debating anyone but Mitt, Rick could duck debating.

NM former Gov. Gary Johnson's been omitted from polls and prevented from participating in 14 out of 16 debates to date. Unlike Perry whose current stats match Johnson's, at least Johnson has the talents to debate accompanying his fiscally and constitutionally conservative record of accomplishments and potus platform.

How many of these shallow debates do voters expect themselves to observe, anyway? What earth shattering new revelations result? Finding entertainment is one thing while observing how candidates behave in public broadcast. But we already knew Perry couldn't debate given that Medina consistently wiped the floor with him during his last gubernatorial primary. We already knew that Newt will eviscerate what's left of the Constitution so long as he profits himself. We already know what Olympic Mitt has to say for himself, having heard it all before he lost '08, including "Kiss those manufacturing jobs goodbye because they are NEVER coming back," before concluding, "Promise them anything; just get their votes."

296 Bobby Valentine. I don't know what kind of amanger he is. Whenever I think about him, I think about the time he snuck back into the dugout after getting thrown out wearing Groucho classes. That's class like they can't teach you at Vassar. Posted by: Truman North at December 01, 2011 05:40 PM (I2LwF) Yeah even though I am a Yankee fan, I thought that was pretty funny

297 If we don't elect Romney don't sit around bitching to me when we lose. Newt is unelectable I tells ya.... Unelectablllllllllleeeeeeeeeeee

298 Oh this is just grand....

In this clip from today's show, S.E. Cupp calls Newt Gingrich a "terrible person" and says that if 2012 comes down to Obama and Gingrich, she might just stay home.This was on Dennis Miller's facebook page.

299
Speaking of Texas, has anyone tried the new jalapeño Cheetos?

300

290....Bingo. 

Thanks, observer.

Perry actually did quite well in the last two debates. ....But you would never know it from the pundit coverage.

Perry handled himself honorably while he was taking the brunt of all the shrill attacks from the other candidates, during the earlier debates.

Let's see how Newt does, now that he is the 'frontrunner'. ....Although I seriously doubt that Perry will be one of the ones doing the attacking.

301

re: Bobby Valentine.  I don't know what kind of amanger he is.  Whenever I think about him, I think about the time he snuck back into the dugout after getting thrown out wearing Groucho classes.

That's class like they can't teach you at Vassar.

Posted by: Truman North at December 01, 2011 05:40 PM (I2LwF)

And he makes the best hot wings.

302 Actually, I usually end up staying home anyway when I find out I can't get my chest into the voting booth.

303 So they'll be Bobby's Sox now?

304 Speaking of Texas, has anyone tried the new jalapeño Cheetos?

Speaking of jalapenos, you know jalapenos jelly and cream cheese is the most simplistic yet divine holiday dip you can make?

305 Posted by: S.E. Cupps at December 01, 2011 05:44 PM (W8x1p)

This sock is useless without pics.

306 It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well.
Posted by: observer at December 01, 2011 05:35 PM (nf2zJ)

Yes, I'm sure they are all shaking in fear over the guy who managed to turn 30%+ support into 6% in 5 short weeks!

Yep, that's the guy they are scared of.

307 304 Oh this is just grand....

In this clip from today's show, S.E. Cupp calls Newt Gingrich a "terrible person" and says that if 2012 comes down to Obama and Gingrich, she might just stay home.This was on Dennis Miller's facebook page.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 01, 2011 05:42 PM (pLTLS)

Follow up: Did S.E. Cupp "stay home" in 2008?

308
speaking of Cheat-hos...

309
My short experience in Kenya with Africans was that they detested American blacks in general.

While studying in the US, were any of the women Barak Obama fooled with black?

310 Yes, I'm sure they are all shaking in fear over the guy who managed to turn 30%+ support into 6% in 5 short weeks! Yep, that's the guy they are scared of. Posted by: DrewM. at December 01, 2011 05:45 PM (dXPup) Oooh that's gonna leave a mark

311 While studying in the US, were any of the women Barak Obama fooled with black? Posted by: The Pirates Your Mother Fears at December 01, 2011 05:46 PM (lpWVn) we have no idea... they could be dudes for all we know of his past.

312 Speaking of jalapenos, you know jalapenos jelly and cream cheese is the most simplistic yet divine holiday dip you can make?

Try habanero jelly with ripe banana. Even better.

313 Yep, that's the guy they are scared of.

To be fair, I doubt they're shaking in their boots over the prospect of facing a guy who carries more baggage than a cruise ship, either.

314 This sock is useless without pics.

No shit.

315
boys, be ambitious

316

296 It's not just the Dems who fear Perry the most.....the media does as well.

Yes, I'm sure they stay up late at night working on strategies to thwart him. Please explain how their current policy of ignoring him would change if they saw him as utterly irrelevant to the primaries?

-----------

If they saw him as 'irrelevant' they would be ignoring his gaffes.

317 Follow up: Did S.E. Cupp "stay home" in 2008?

Oh yeah.  All day and all night, baby.

318 Oh this is just grand....

I heard that going on, and Dennis' response that whatever she does will make for an uncomfortable talk with her future children.

319

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States

What is the affirmative case for Mitt, please?

I keep waiting for one of his supporters to make one. The only one who has is JackStraw, although even he spends 90% of his time tearing other candidates down.

320 If they saw him as 'irrelevant' they would be ignoring his gaffes.

They are.  To the extent they notice them, it's for comic relief.  Think Perry on Letterman. 

321 If they saw him as 'irrelevant' they would be ignoring his gaffes.

They see him as a gaffe. Relevant is beside their point being ridicule.

322 My life for you!!! My... Life... For... You!!!!

323 NEW YORK (AP) -- General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday. In an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, CEO Dan Akerson insisted that the cars are safe, but said the company will purchase the Volts because it wants to keep customers happy. OK everybody here who thinks GM is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and not because the cars actually catch on fire raise your hands? Yeah I thought so

324

They have no habit of staying all day, they have no habit of I do this and you give me cash unless it is illegal," he added.

That's quite true. They don't. It is a problem.

I have to say, there are definetly qualities to like about Newt.

I can't imagine any of the other candidates saying things like that. I don't know any of the candidates personally, but I will go out on a limb and say at least half of them probably aren't smart enough to understand what he's talking about.

Brains certainly aren't everything, and they don't always come with good judgement, but Gingrich is a very smart guy.

325
Newt just challenged SE Cupp to a night of [redacted] and [redacted].

326 I find SE Cupp very lickable, she is also intelligent and decent. I would be interested in what her concerns about Newt are.

327 In this clip from today's show, S.E. Cupp calls Newt Gingrich a "terrible person" and says that if 2012 comes down to Obama and Gingrich, she might just stay home.This was on Dennis Miller's facebook page

Shut up and shake 'em, honey.

328
2 newts 1 cupp

329 Perry's liberalism is what screwed him up.  If he had a pair, the secret service would be protecting them now.

330 General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday.

Obamamobile combines the Edsel with the Pinto.

331 A couple of callers after the interview also told Dennis the S.E. was an idiot. I was grinning the whole time.

332 Gingrich is a very smart guy

True.  But intelligence without wisdom gets you.....Barney Frank.

(I'm just playin' witcha.)

333 nevergiveup Well here is Perry on Greta the other night. Try taking a look at it. I could not find the edited version-it's the unedited. paste the link to get rid of the gap. http://gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com/video/gov- rick-perry-the-entire-uncut-on-the-record-interview/

334 One of the reasons that every leftist program is that when lefties see something they think is unjust, they decide to tear the whole thing and plop something new and untried in its place.  Conservatives should be smarter than that--we're supposed to worry about the law of unintended consequences.

G.K. Chesterton once explained the difference between progressives and conservatives this way:  Suppose that in the middle of a field is an old gate, unattached to anything. The progressive will decide right away to tear down the gate.  The conservative asks why the gate was put there, to be sure that it isn't still serving a useful purpose.  And if it isn't doing any harm, he will leave it there.

I bring this up because I think it explains Newt's ideas about downsizing government.  This was something he talked about as Speaker, and it still seems to be true.  If you've ever heard the entire "wither on the vine" speech, you'll recognize it right away. For better or for worse, we have lived with New Deal  and Great Society programs for decades, and they are imbedded into our social fabric.  If we just pull them down, there will be plenty of unintended consequences to deal with.  So Newt's approach is gradual--trim, but don't slash, budget allocations.  Push people towards private sector solutions--dont' force them there.

When Newt made the wither on the vine speech, what he said was that we want people to go for private insurance, but we don't want to force them, because, among other things, it wouldn't be politically smart.  Instead, he wanted to give people the option of private or government insurance.  He said that as more people opted for private insurance, the old bureaucratic government structure would "wither on the vine."  He has explained recently that this was also the reason for his right -wing social engineering remark--to force people off government care and into private care is just the reverse of what the left does.  Instead, give everyone a choice, and the market will win out.

To go back to Chesterton's gate--Medicare is there because most insurance companies wouldn't provide insurance to the elderly.   If we totally privatized the market, that might happen again.  (Do we, as supporters of the free market, want to force insurers to sell to older people?)   But if we open up the free market as an option, then at least some insurers will put out a product.  People will feel secure because Medicare is still there to fall back on.   If the private sector can put out something better --great.  But it may not happen overnight.
And if it turns out that no one can make a profit, or at least break even, providing medical insurance to the elderly, then we have some serious rethinking to do.  But at least we won't go down in flames as the party that killed off the elderly.

335 nevergiveup Who is your candidate?

336
funny how the feds aren't getting involved in the Volt's safety issues

When false reports of the Toyota Prius' acceleration problems were made, a federal case was made out of it. The CEO of Toyota apologized (and felt lots of shame).

The US govt fined Toyota millions of dollars for a fabricated defect.

337 General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday.

Chevy Volts definitely have not caught fire.

338 He has explained recently that this was also the reason for his right -wing social engineering remark--to force people off government care and into private care is just the reverse of what the left does.  Instead, give everyone a choice, and the market will win out.

Too cute by half.  The gate in a field is innocuous.  Government care that destroys our economy isn't.

339

Better than Romney, that's for sure.

I'd still vote for Perry.

I do give some of the credit for Newt's current success to him wisely choosing not to attack his allies. He's not some mush-mouth spitting platitudes about civility, and neither am I. He will vivisect you on national TV, with relish, hold the ruth.

But in this campaign he's been smart enough to know who to attack and who's on his side.

Waste words pissing off Michelle Bachmann fans he mostly agrees with, he did not.

340 A couple of callers after the interview also told Dennis the S.E. was an idiot. I was grinning the whole time.

Posted by: Bosk at December 01, 2011 05:55 PM (n2K+4)

I let my subscription to DM lapsea while ago cuz I've been whittling expenses. Should I pick it up again?

341 nevergiveup Who is your candidate? Posted by: Jeopardy at December 01, 2011 05:56 PM (rJVPU) At this point Newt. Not particularly happy about that, but it is what it is. Look I have seen Perry look pretty good in some interviews, but in other settings he has not come across very well and I am afraid that would be the case in a General Election. He seems like a decent guy, but from what I have seen, a not so great candidate.

342 Hey look Cain admitted that e gave money to that last chick without his wife's knowledge but is still saying he didn't hit it. Face palm

343
Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

It's because your guy is running a terrible campaign.  I wanted him in the race but all I remember now is the gaffes and a couple of normal speeches.  It is up to him to get past his mistakes, he is not doing it.

344 I was just listening on the radio ErickW. It's free :-)

345

They break stories over there.

Verum Serum breaks um....and Ace piles on. 

This is what is driving the backlash that Ace is "feeling in his gut". 

I for one would like to see a "here's some reasons you should consider voting for Perry" post instead of  the incessant undercutting of all the front runners.  Please.  The Forbes, Arpaio, and Ace endorsements are impressive.  Can you fill us in on the specifics? 

346 ChadPergram  My colleague Trish Turner reports that the Senate votes on both payroll tax cut bills will start around 8-8:30 pm. Both need 60 votes.

jamiedupree  White House registers opposition to Senate GOP plan to extend payroll tax; says it would break debt limit deal

CBO says Senate Republican payroll tax cut bill would result in $111 billion in deficit reduction

347

Perry is right one one thing, the debate won't matter.  For goodness sakes anything that comes out of Obama's mouth will be a lie anyway. 

Ace and all the rest of you, it isn't the little mistake of a few flubs.  It was the immigration you don't have a heart moment that sunk him.  He sounded just like Juan McCain.  This was his Waterloo!  All he had to say was "look we voted on it in our state and decided it was the right thing to do for Texas."  I will secure that border, that is my promise to you.  We will then look for solutions for the millions still here while enforcing current immigration law.

People thinking the debates will matter, seem to forget Obama has a record.  The black population that he thinks loves him so much are not happy with the high unemployment while he parties, plays golf and eats wagyu beef.  The youngens who campaigned for him are still wondering where their share of pie is.  The unions pricks and big bundlers are the only ones who got payed off.

Obama is not going to be re-elected!

348 I'm happy Romney is getting his feathers ruffled now.  IF he is the nominee he better be ready to deal with all the crap that comes with that privilege.

Still voting for Perry.

349 Just would like to give a totally O/T shout-out to Amnesty International, and tell them all what a bunch of F*s they are, and wish them all a bad day! George Soros eats soft serve tattoo poop!

350 This is depressing in a major way.
I don't even trust the Repubs anymore.
Doomed. We are doomed. Time to just hunker down and suffer,

351 nevergiveup At this point Newt. *** Did you see this from Ace?- lorien, yeah, I guess that's a bigger deal than vigorously defending the institutions at the heart of the destruction of the world economy. Simple. Sort of eloquent, kind of devastating-and I know you get all the machinations of that.

352

Look it here, chumps, I wouldn't know the differences between Freddie Mac and Fanny May if Freddie Prinze came back from the grave and explained them to me using a puppet show and a slide rule.  But that's not the point.  The point of this message, geeks, is that the Newt Gingrich is the one and only true and pure conservative in this contest and that vaccine smoking, amnesty granting liberal from Taxes is a chump, a fool and a charlatan.

We need the Newt to be the nominee because the guy who wins the debate automatically wins the presidency.  Like Mondale.  Like Kerry.  Hell's bells the election merely is a formality.  The debates are the election, punks.

What really ticks me off about these Mexican loving RINOs is they keep harping on these allegory "personal failings" of the Newt.  Shit, chumps, the Newt hasn't divorced anyone in over 10 years and it's been months since he's rung up 5-figure charges in jewelry for the missus.  Step off, RINOs, or I'll slap you so hard your ancestors will feel it over in Mexico.

Then these vaccine pimping RINOs are saying that the Newt has no executory experience and hasn't won an election in well over a decade.  What f'n relevance does that have to a presidential contest, geeks?  Dammit to hell you RINOs make me want to projectile vomit.  The presidency is about who knows more about history and such.  Besides that irrationality I've got to burst yet another of you RINOs' bubbles:   winning elections is for losers, chumps.  The fact that the Newt quit Congress and never has governed even a town much less a state is a positive, not a negative.

In summation:  I'm with the Newt.  If you're against the Newt you're a wimp RINO from Mexifornia or a geek and therefore not welcome in my Republican Party. 

Gingrich-Palin, '12.    

353 Why does Ace support Romney?

354 Not to be harsh or anything, but if your name is Weinstein and you go to Pakistan, you're on your own, bub. Demanding that I help the Muslim Brotherhood? How rude. All you had to do was ask...

355
and some of the claims came from opportunists who wanted to cash in

But yeah, "sudden acceleration" is always driver error. And those drivers are usually fossils.

356 rollcall House votes to end presidential campaign fund. http://t.co/hIIP1S0l

The House voted today to end taxpayer financing of presidential elections.

In a 235-190 vote, the House approved a measure to terminate the Presidential Election Campaign Fund and shut down the Election Assistance Commission, a national clearinghouse on the mechanics of voting.

357 I know a ton of people who do not keep up with current events.
They are a lot happier than me.
Add to that my age, and I wonder why I bother. I'll be dead by the time this all plays out.
Hopefully.

358 I was just listening on the radio ErickW. It's free :-)

Posted by: Bosk at December 01, 2011 06:00 PM (n2K+4)

The local station changed format and I don't get his show anymore

I used to get his podcasts but since it's only $45 for a year, I suppose I can re-up.

I do miss his rapier wit!

 

 

359 Hey, let's vet the SCOAMF. Just sayin'.

360 Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 01, 2011 05:48 PM (SY2Kh)

True but no one supporting Newt claimed that.

The thing about some Perry supporters is they seem to think anyone who isn't on Team Perry is an idiot who just doesn't get it. There seems to be a disbelief people don't find Perry as awesome as they do.

In fairness, every candidate has groupies like that but rarely is the evidence so striking that a candidate just isn't getting it done and isn't going to.

361

Obama is not going to be re-elected!

Posted by: Africanus at December 01, 2011 06:01 PM (ahCAd)

I wish I had that same confidence.

I don't expect the youth vote, black vote, and hispanic vote to go R.

I do expect his core consituencies to return to normal voter enthusiasm since the Messiah turned out to be Bwian, which means he would lose.

 

Unless we nominate someone who becomes (or already is) an unelectable dud.

 

362

What is the affirmative case for Mitt, please?

I keep waiting for one of his supporters to make one. The only one who has is JackStraw, although even he spends 90% of his time tearing other candidates down.

Posted by: Warden at December 01, 2011 05:50 PM (vN6N7)

Helloooo~~~ Remember me?

363
White House registers opposition to Senate GOP plan to extend payroll tax; says it would break debt limit deal

CBO says Senate Republican payroll tax cut bill would result in $111 billion in deficit reduction


Ooooh, isn't this interesting!

Obama is trying to stop the Do-Nothing Congress from doing something!

364 While studying in the US, were any of the women Barak Obama fooled with black? That's like five questions. Did he study, as Barack Obama, and fool around, with women, who were black? I'll grant you the "in the US".

365
If Congress starts actually passing laws, Obama can't run against Congress.

Obama will have to, gulp, run on his record.

366 And when he was done, Newt blew his load in the nearest intern.

367 "Not to be harsh or anything, but if your name is Weinstein and you go to Pakistan, you're on your own, bub. I'm not interested in risking the lives of our military to bail out this sort of idiocy." About 15 years ago I knew a couple of guys who were engineers who, as employees of defense industry companies, had to go to the ME on business. They would tell stories of the way it is there. Military people all over the place. People who hate westerners all over the place, and on and on. And it is NOT just our being allies of Israel. That's bullshit. They hate westerners. Period. Then you talk to muslim immigrants from the ME about how awful it is over there. Lack of freedom, lack of human rights. Women treated like slaves. Why anyone would go over there if they didn't have to for their jobs is beyond me. Even for a job, I'd think long and hard.

368

Don't you think Newt gets a pass because people EXPECT him to be sleazy? 

It's the Bill Clinton effect.  Republicans screamed and screamed about how immoral and horrible the guy was during his entire presidency.  And guess what, they were RIGHT.

Bubba's total and complete lack of shame ended up saving him.  He was so perfectly sleazy that people simply shrugged off his behaviors because they were just par for the course. 

EVERYBODY knows that Newt is sleazy.  How in the hell does a story about him being sleazy damage his reputation? 

You CAN'T DAMAGE his reputation.  Even Republicans think Newt is a scumbag. 

Keep in mind:  SCUMBAGS can and DO WIN elections. 

 

 

369 Someone want to explain to me why, after whine and moaning about how insolvent Social Security and Medicare are (what those payroll taxes are used for), we're giving the programs LESS money so they'll become insolvent faster?

Or is the insolvency whine a lie? Or is this just pandering to give a few bucks back to joe six pack to make him feel like they care?

Or is it to push Social Security and Medicare into insolvency faster so that it can be claimed they have to be shut down sooner?

Seems to me someone's playing fuck fuck with the dice.

370 Drew M. Who is calling Newt supporters idiots? Hell I can't make up my mind between Romney or Newt... But to pretend that a Newt campaign would not be complicated....

371

@50: "No where to go but up baby."

Just like real estate values, my friend.  Just like real estate values.

372 If Cain were to drop out, how would that change the race?  Would Newt get his voters as the viable Not-Romney, or would Perry see a surge?

373

Maybe that is why he's bleeding support off Mitt when no one else could.

He hasn't gotten into that personal, cultural, ID politics sort of emotional pissing match where he is by proxy, telling all Romney's fans: You suck, effete northeast homos, go die we hate you. He hasn't had that sort of factional dispute thing, where the godbothers go at the RINOs or the libertarians go at the neocons. That's the kind of thing that just provokes an 'other'/enemy faction reaction that closes people off to you, and causes them to circle the wagons. You do it calculated - ideally, only to people already closed off, or not worth the bother. Do it to dems all day long, but in the primary, don't forget you still need his voters, or someones.

It's a little like trying to prove to a schizophrenic there is no conspiracy against him. Using logic and reason on a schizophrenic is a Bad Idea! Now you're in on it, man, you're out to get him too. You out yourself as the ancient Enemy (Sabines, christianist people, trial lawyers, communists, moderate politicians) and now everything you say is a lie and everything he says is the truth - a united front to a common threat.

Something every other candidate to some degree has done to Romney's RINO base.

Perry I am still partial to though.

He wisely hasn't done that either... to anyone but Mitt, who he's hammered shamelessly and constantly. But soft--gloved Cain even when Cain was being a prick to him.

Gee sound like anyone who might be writing this comment?

374 I know a ton of people who do not keep up with current events.
They are a lot happier than me.
Add to that my age, and I wonder why I bother. I'll be dead by the time this all plays out.
Hopefully.

Posted by: Pecos, All Perry, all the time at December 01, 2011 06:05 PM (2Gb0y)

And when the camps are built and you're behind the razor wire and the idiots who had their heads stuck in the sand ask why you just didn't go along with the program, you can tell them because you're not a fool and can remember the concept of liberty and that you don't answer to anyone but God.

At least that's my approach.

375 374 While studying in the US, were any of the women Barak Obama fooled with black?

That's like five questions. Did he study, as Barack Obama, and fool around, with women, who were black? I'll grant you the "in the US".

Posted by: t-bird at December 01, 2011 06:08 PM (FcR7P)

Not really sure I can grant that one, I'd like to see those transcripts first.

376 I think you are engaging in projection-you think Perry supporters are daft.

377

Posted by: Burke at December 01, 2011 05:56 PM (wmdMN)

The problem with that whole line of reasoning is that NOTHING in Government actualy goes away.  It can be there with no purpose at all, but will still exist and get funding.

And worse... as there are only so many supervisory positions to go around, you reach a point where Government workers MUST create new 'mandates' so they can have people under them...

Did you know that the Feds actualy have jurisdiction over the Rabbits a Magician can use in his shows?  And there is a whole Federal group, who monitors Rabbits?  That there are others who License said Rabbits?? creating a whole other layer of Federal Make Work Jobs?

Gingrich is wrong.... we need Surgery, not to put on a bandaid and hope we get better.... because we are just plain out of time.

378 Yeah, me too. Sometimes ignorance truly does constitute bliss. 

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 01, 2011 06:11 PM (vbh31)

Rarely, unless one prefers ignorance.  Don't forget that Western civilization, in Judeo-Christian tradition, traded immortality and paradise for knowledge of good and evil (not coincidentally, exactly the same knowledge of good and evil that moral relativism tries to deny, thereby thinking they will be allowed back into the paradise of Eden).

379 **Someone want to explain to me why, after whine and moaning about how insolvent Social Security and Medicare are (what those payroll taxes are used for), we're giving the programs LESS money so they'll become insolvent faster? Or is the insolvency whine a lie? Or is this just pandering to give a few bucks back to joe six pack to make him feel like they care? Or is it to push Social Security and Medicare into insolvency faster so that it can be claimed they have to be shut down sooner? Seems to me someone's playing fuck fuck with the dice** The simple explanation is that they're a bunch of corrupt thieves who don't care. The malicious explanation is that they want to fuck everything up. But, we've been spending Bailout Dollar-level budgets since 2008, and Beohner screwed that pooch by not getting a budget.

380 How many Congressional bills are lying DOA in the Senate?

Obama and the Do Nothing Democrats

Damn right.

381 "General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday." In fairness, they're selling so few, that this really isn't going to cost them much. Let's do a chart comparing GM's sale of Big Ass SUV's and Chevy Volts. Bar graph form would be the best. The Chevy volt bar could be in green, and the Big Ass SUV bar could be in red, to stand for the blood of Gaia bleeding.

382 367 I know a ton of people who do not keep up with current events.
They are a lot happier than me.
Add to that my age, and I wonder why I bother. I'll be dead by the time this all plays out.
Hopefully.

Posted by: Pecos, All Perry, all the time at December 01, 2011 06:05 PM (2Gb0y)

For me? its because I don't want my Kids to inherit a Shit Sandwich...

383
"General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday."


hahahaha, Cash for Clunkers II

384 But, we've been spending Bailout Dollar-level budgets since 2008, and Beohner screwed that pooch by not getting a budget.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 01, 2011 06:15 PM (QxSug)

We have a BINGO!

385 Newt is lying.

Jennifer Rubin at the WaPo quotes him singing the praises of the GSE's in public at a paid event.

When the heat was turned up on Freddie he was there to help them. 

386
someone tweet that before someone else thinks of it

387 396
"General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday."


hahahaha, Cash for Clunkers II

Posted by: soothsayer at December 01, 2011 06:17 PM (sqkOB)

You should be a paid consultant.

388 ErickW if you visit radiotime.com you can find a free radio stream of his show almost any time of the day

389 397 Newt is lying.

Jennifer Rubin at the WaPo quotes him singing the praises of the GSE's in public at a paid event.

When the heat was turned up on Freddie he was there to help them. 

Posted by: Darth Wingnut at December 01, 2011 06:17 PM (z0HdK)

--------------

Did you see this?

Unearthed: Gingrich Makes the Case for GSEÂ’s on Freddie MacÂ’s Web Site in 2007/2008

http://tinyurl.com/82zpw2p

Go to their site to see what Newt wrote on the Government Sponsored EnterpriseÂ’s website

HereÂ’s the intro:

“I’m a little late with this – it’s been at least a couple of weeks since Bloomberg broke the story that Newt Gingrich received $1.6 million in consulting fees from Freddie Mac over a decade or so. With Gingrich currently rocketing up the polls it’s safe to say he survived the initial controversy over this, but I think questions over this are going to continue to dog his campaign. Gingrich has defended the work he did for Freddie Mac claiming that he was hired only to provide strategic advice as a “historian”, and that he had warned upper management that their lending practices were “insane” in the years leading up to the housing market collapse. But former officials from Freddie Mac described his role quite a bit differently, according to the Bloomberg story.”

“Former Freddie Mac officials familiar with his work in 2006 say Gingrich was asked to build bridges to Capitol Hill Republicans and develop an argument on behalf of the company’s public-private structure that would resonate with conservatives seeking to dismantle it.

He was expected to provide written material that could be circulated among free-market conservatives in Congress and in outside organizations, said two former company executives familiar with Gingrich’s role at the firm. He didn’t produce a white paper or any other document the firm could use on its behalf, they said.”

How is that not lobbying? And at Taxpayer expense?

Now, go read the rest of the story and find out what he wrote on their website. It sure doesnÂ’t say what Newt said heÂ’d been telling them all along. We heard many times recently from Newt that he was telling them they were highly flawed and in deep trouble but that they didnÂ’t take his advice.

390 393 "General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday."

In fairness, they're selling so few, that this really isn't going to cost them much. Let's do a chart comparing GM's sale of Big Ass SUV's and Chevy Volts.

Bar graph form would be the best. The Chevy volt bar could be in green, and the Big Ass SUV bar could be in red, to stand for the blood of Gaia bleeding.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 01, 2011 06:16 PM (2oBun)

I heard this on the radio earlier today, and the reporter followed it up with an obligatory, "though the fires have only occurred following safety tests and not for an actual consumer". To which I thought, "well duh, they've only sold a few hundred so far." Probably destroyed more of those pos' testing so far then have actually been sold.

391

And when the camps are built and you're behind the razor wire and the idiots who had their heads stuck in the sand ask why you just didn't go along with the program, you can tell them because you're not a fool and can remember the concept of liberty and that you don't answer to anyone but God.

That's nice, but too corny for me.

I pay attention because I plan to get before the getting goes bad.

Barring that, at least know when, where and how to hide 'till it blows over.

I ain't gonna die for no fascists. My word is poontang.

392 The thing about some Perry supporters is they seem to think anyone who isn't on Team Perry is an idiot who just doesn't get it. There seems to be a disbelief people don't find Perry as awesome as they do.

Maybe, though I (and many of Newt's critics) certainly don't fall in that camp.  I understand why Perry is doing poorly, and he has nobody but himself to blame.

That doesn't change the fact that Newt doesn't always come across as very likeable, and carries a shitload of baggage from his ethics violation, marriage issues, lobbying, etc.  One need not be a Perry supporter to have serious doubts as to whether Newt could pull off a win in the general election, or question whether he'd govern as a conservative or not.

Gun to my head, I don't know who I'd choose between Newt and Mitt if Perry were to drop out or irreversibly flame out.  Being "Not Romney" isn't in itself a reason for picking Newt, though I really don't like Romney.

393 ErickW if you visit radiotime.com you can find a free radio stream of his show almost any time of the day

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at December 01, 2011 06:21 PM (85W4J)

Oh, nice!

Thanks for the info!

394 Die sock die

395 @144: "Yeah, he has also been endorsed by Sen. Jim Inhofe. ....Inhofe and Arpaio are probably the two most ardent 'close the damn border' guys in the whole country. And they both are endorsing Perry.

And yet, there are still those who are trying to portray Perry as being soft on illegal immigration"

If only Perry hadn't opened his own yap about it - that "heartless" comment was, to put it mildly, a circular-running torpedo.

396 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 01, 2011 06:15 PM (NtXW4)

I half agree with you.  And I would hope that a President Gingrich would be more aggressive now than he was 16 years ago.  A lot has changed, and I think he understands that.  Still, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan, no one has every succeeded in repealing the Law of Unintended Consequences.   It is all too easy to create one problem while solving another.   Although we're in a crisis, we still have to think for the long-run.  How much long term good does it do us if we slash and burn for the next four years, saving money but also causing great pain,  if we're opening the door for a "compassionate" Democratic victory in 2016?  We definitely need to set the country in a different direction by then, but if we try to do too much at once, we'll fail.

397 Today Mitt changes his last name to Fernblatt, announces himself as the new 'Not-Romney' candidate.

398 410 Today Mitt changes his last name to Fernblatt, announces himself as the new 'Not-Romney' candidate.

Posted by: nickless will probably get accidentally banned again soon at December 01, 2011 06:25 PM (MMC8r)

Not so fast there, Mitt. This race is Newt, Not-Newt now.

399 What is the affirmative case for Mitt, please?

There is no affirmative case for any candidate.  Romney's hated by the base and wouldn't win his own state; Gingrich is a disgraced crook who was forced from office; Cain's got a trail of harassment allegations and an apparent ignorance of just about everything; Bachmann thinks we have an embassy in Iran; Paul thought the Holocaust was a decent practice run; Perry's a garbled Bush clone whose only 2012 victory will be the First Quadrennial Rudy Giuliani Award for Campaign Malpractice.

Romney is now the least bad option because he was always one of the only two candidates with a plausible path to electoral victory, and the other one has since imploded.  Rick Perry looked good back when it seemed he'd be able to both unite conservatives and present a viable candidate for crossover support, but he was never more popular than the day before he announced, and three months after stumbling and breaking his nose right out of the gate he's now unable to do either.

Romney can at least bring the crossover support necessary to carry the swing states that will decide if Obama stays or goes.  He would be competitive in the Midwest, New Hampshire, even Pennsylvania (yes, CAC, I said it), and these are the states likely to determine the next presidential election.  Even if he bleeds support from the base, that's still unlikely to be enough for him to lose any McCain states, and his crossover appeal ought to be enough for him to take back most if not all of the Bush states and then start competing on traditional (as of the last 20 years) Democrat turf.

Perry is not a competitive candidate in those regions.  His path to victory looks more like the Bush '00/'04 model, which were extremely slim victories based on a bare majority of electoral votes.  And that would assume he could hold onto Western states like Nevada and Colorado, which have made decisive moves toward the Democrats since Bush won them.

I dunno.  Some people still believe we can be saved by politicians.  We have our own Lightworkers we look to, men and women who are propelled forward by an Approved Narrative of True Conservatism no matter how many times they fuck us.  I've seen enough of our supposed saviors betray their voters, their party, and their own ideology, that at this point I'll settle for whoever stands the best chance of unseating the incumbent Communist who only needs four more years to destroy life in this country as we have known it for at least the next several generations.  It's not a very hard choice for me.

400 Seems a fair cop on the Newt remarks. Did Perry say anything about Fannie/Freddie between 2000-2007?

401

I ain't gonna die for no fascists. My word is poontang.

Posted by: Entropy at December 01, 2011 06:22 PM (ccBqU)

LOL Everyone has their own cause!

402
I refuse to vote for Romney.

Why should I vote for a slimy salamander? Newt is now just another piece of GOP toast.

Thanks to the jerkoff GOP we're now gonna get four more years of King Putt.

403 20 point spread for the New England Indy game!?  20!  I'd definitely go with NE if it was 14 or maybe even 16.  But God  that's a lot of points.  But the Colts have blown.

404 Who is calling Newt supporters idiots?

Hell I can't make up my mind between Romney or Newt...

But to pretend that a Newt campaign would not be complicated....

Posted by: Jeopardy at December 01, 2011 06:12 PM (rJVPU)

There is a meme with Perrykrishnas and Romneybots that the lack of success of the respective campaigns is the fault of the electorate. I dont see how this is any different from liberals telling us that Obama is tanking because the citizenry is too dumb to appreciate him. When you get into the mindset that the electorate simply isnt good enough for you, thats probably the worst possible place to be in for a politician or a campaign. Ace seems to border on such thoughts sometimes.

405 392 How many Congressional bills are lying DOA in the Senate?
 
I give this a double meh. There were 300+ from the 2008 Pelosi House that died in the Senate too. That 60 vote thing practically guarantees a lot of bill death in the Senate.

406
To give the Perrynistas some hope, I think he has enough money to make  it through Iowa and NH, which by then some of the smaller players may drop out which maybe then he can capture some attention.

407

Newt claimed in the CNBC interview that his involvement with Fannie/Freddie was confined to telling them how insane it was to promote mortgages for people who couldn't afford them.

Which, from this new story, was a big honking lie.  I really don't like that fat, trough-sucking blowhard anyway, but I really, really don't like it when he tells me completely unbelievable lies.

408 I guess Tea Party movement is or was(?) a mistake because "everyone" now knows crony capitalism is a mistake? I guess no one should go to jail once someone dies during a crime because it's now obvious committing the crime was a mistake.  Fuck you, Newt.

409 Compare and Contrast:

Mitt: Signed assault weapons ban extension

Newt: Led the House in repealing Clinton's assault weapons ban

Advantage: Newt

410

The thing about some Perry supporters is they seem to think anyone who isn't on Team Perry is an idiot who just doesn't get it. There seems to be a disbelief people don't find Perry as awesome as they do.

 I'm not picking up what you are laying down dude. Are you sure you're not just labelling them Perry supporters?

Guys at like 6%. Anyone who isn't is most everyone.

Has Ynot been telling you off? She doesn't seem the type. Ace gives you this idea? Me? I have nice things to say about every candidate save Romney and I mean every, and bad things to say about them all.

I have heard this dozens of times now and I am just sick and fed up with wondering. Just who the hell are these abusive Perry supporters?

411 If Perry actually has an real balls, he will go after Newt.  This is absurd.  We're back to the Party of the Stupid v. The Party of the Dangerous. UNBELIEVABLE.

412

I have heard this dozens of times now and I am just sick and fed up with wondering. Just who the hell are these abusive Perry supporters?

Posted by: Entropy at December 01, 2011 06:32 PM (ccBqU)

Cue the standard tactic of having to go outside the blog to get evidence of an accusation used against people commenting on this blog.

413

Posted by: Burke at December 01, 2011 06:25 PM (wmdMN)

You can't allow the Fear that somthing 'may' happen, to stop you from doing what needs to be done.

It soon becomes the same arguement as they have been using against oil drilling... saying the new fields will not be productive for 10 years... problem is that they've been saying that for 30 years...

In 2008 the economy got a scare, and the Gov and Fed Res bank put a multi trillion dollar bandaid, on a broken leg... they have fixed nothing... and Europe is about to go under, and the Fed Res bank has now tied the Euro to the Dollar through 'currency swaps'....

The political partys are so focused on gaining power, that they have lost the REASON the wanted that power in the first place...

I really don't care if the Dems get back in power in 4 or 8 years... they eventualy will anyway.... and you cannot use that as a 'reason' not to do what must be done to actualy fix some things...

414 Blah, blah, blah... All the self-satisfied purists who would NEVER deign to lend their names to Romney or Gingrich in the General Election are unwittingly (perhaps) proclaiming that they're also unwilling to vote against Obama unless they get the exact alternative that they want.
I know they'll say there's no difference between the two, like running Bain Capital is exactly the same as passing out "Free Mumia" pamphlets at the bus station.

415 If Perry actually has an real balls, he will go after Newt.

Given Perry's debate performance vs. Gingrich's, I'm not sure that's a cage he wants to be rattling.

416 Newt: Led the House in repealing Clinton's assault weapons ban

And then my own party led the House in repealing me.

417 DrewM.: When Newt loses catastrophically and takes down a number of GOP Senate candidates, dooming us for a generation, I'm going to be particularly vicious in beating up on you.

Because you're too smart to believe the bullshit you're peddling. 

At least I hope you'll have shame enough to admit you're wrong at that point and not play the pathetic "but Mitt wouldn't have won either!!!" card as a last resort.

Because there will be an accounting for you and others who pushed Gingrich, knowing he was going to lead us to destruction.  Fully aware of his flaws and his baggage.

418 There were 300+ from the 2008 Pelosi House that died in the Senate too. That 60 vote thing practically guarantees a lot of bill death in the Senate.

It's a good thing, sometimes.

419 I thought dropping an unfertilized but herpes contaminated egg in a gay bathhouse made a barney frank.

420 All the self-satisfied purists who would NEVER deign to lend their names to Romney or Gingrich in the General Election are unwittingly (perhaps) proclaiming that they're also unwilling to vote against Obama unless they get the exact alternative that they want.

I like it when those same people blame the GOP for another Obama term.

421 So they are reporting that Mrs. Cain didn't know that herman was giving money to the latest.   I hope that isn't true cause I'm thinking Mrs. Cain isn't the type to hold her tongue and I'm betting she's just about had it with all this stuff.

George Snuffleupagus says he has the interview that will once and for all bury herman.

I don't know, if stage 4 caner doesn't bury you, what makes Georgie Progie think he can bury herman.

422

Shut up Paramus. That's about as legit as advice from David Axlerod.

The guy who slobs Romney's knob and will never ever support Perry thinks he knows what Perry should do, and its "attack Newt Gingrich"?

Jennifer Rubin, dude.

Yeah I went there.

423 Gingrich Says Herman Cain Needs to Think Prayerfully About What Next, and As For VP CainÂ…

424 428 If Perry actually has an real balls, he will go after Newt.

Given Perry's debate performance vs. Gingrich's, I'm not sure that's a cage he wants to be rattling.

Posted by: nickless will probably get accidentally banned again soon at December 01, 2011 06:35 PM (MMC8r)

Perry's still trying to find out how to mate Gingrich and Cain.

425 Given Perry's debate performance vs. Gingrich's, I'm not sure that's a cage he wants to be rattling.

We can pray.  Maybe Bachmann can.  Santorum? 

Apparently "conservatives" just have a different stupid than liberals.  Different and equal.

426 Because there will be an accounting for you and others who pushed Gingrich, knowing he was going to lead us to destruction. Fully aware of his flaws and his baggage. Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 06:35 PM (hIWe1) Oh I must of missed that other fantastic candidate out there?

427 I thought dropping an unfertilized but herpes contaminated egg in a gay bathhouse made a barney frank.

Gollum + lots of fatty foods + astroglide

428 He would be competitive in the Midwest, New Hampshire, even Pennsylvania (yes, CAC, I said it), and these are the states likely to determine the next presidential election. 

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 01, 2011 06:28 PM (W8x1p)

Hah.

 I win.

Building on this- it is VERY difficult to remove a sitting President. We've done it just four times in the last hundred years.

Every single time we have done so, we flipped MORE than the traditional states.

EX- 1992: Clinton flipped NH, VT, CA- all standout R states for much of the previous 50 years.

1980: New York, Massachusetts, the Deep South

If you do NOT see a candidate flipping states beyond your last-election grabs (states Bush didn't win in 2004), that candidate is not going to win the general election.

429 431 >There were 300+ from the 2008 Pelosi House that died in the Senate too. That 60 vote thing practically guarantees a lot of bill death in the Senate.

It's a good thing, sometimes.

Reid loves to make a show of killing conservative legislation.

430

“Former Freddie Mac officials familiar with his work in 2006 say Gingrich was asked to build bridges to Capitol Hill Republicans and develop an argument on behalf of the company’s public-private structure that would resonate with conservatives seeking to dismantle it.

He was expected to provide written material that could be circulated among free-market conservatives in Congress and in outside organizations, said two former company executives familiar with Gingrich’s role at the firm. He didn’t produce a white paper or any other document the firm could use on its behalf, they said.”

So what?  He wrote an argument for them from the conservative view.  Big friggin deal.

431

Romney isn't conservative, Perry can't debate and Newt has stupid ideas.

Newt also has no track record of running anything real.  Like, say, the biggest government and army in the world. Both Perry and Romney do.

What Newt does have a track record of is being the kind of big idea blowhard who makes a really, really crappy executive.

America can't afford another President fucking it up for another four years.  I don't care how good your ideas are (and Newt has great ideas, lots of 'em, but even more really bad ideas), if you can't lead and execute and implement, you are worse than a cypher.

I'm reluctantly coming around to supporting Perry even though I hate his immigration position and his crony capitalism (of which I have personal experience).  But America can't afford another four years of a perpetual grad student trying to run the country like its a think tank seminar.

432 What has been forwarded by Newt supporters is that the general electorate will think in the same manner as they do. That the economy will trump all. I think that underestimates the ability of the MSM and Democrats to make it about everything else but that-and Newt might give them a C-130 payload of material... Could be a C-5's worth.

433

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 06:35 PM (hIWe1)

Well, there certainly wont be an accounting for you, since your guy will fail to win the nomination. AGAIN!

So I guess its quite easy to talk big about accountablity.

434

1.6M?

Chickenfeed.

435 #435.  Perry is not smart.  Santorum, Bachmann, Newt and Romney are smart.  Many Republican voters, possibly most, are just as stupid as Democrats.  If an attack by a not that bright Republican (Perry) can reach The Stupid, I'll take it.  I that too cynical? 

436 >>>So what?  He wrote an argument for them from the conservative view.  Big friggin deal.

My god.

My god.

You've really cast any and all supposed "principle" into the trashcan, haven't you?

Because whatever Newt Gingrich does is now presumptively The Actions A True Conservative Would Obviously Take.

437

What Newt does have a track record of is being the kind of big idea blowhard who makes a really, really crappy executive.

Newt has good ideas.  And bad ideas.  The sort of sounds like Google.  I don't need or want a search engine for President.

438 They get that behemoth loaded and off the runway-they could carpet bomb the airwaves for months and Newt wouldn't be able to get a silver word out sideways.

439 Posted by: Romeo13 at December 01, 2011 06:15 PM (NtXW4)

I absolutely agree that we need to fix things (re-read what I said).  I just don't think we should act like leftists, tearing down what we don't like in order to replace it with something brand new because we somehow know it will work.

Look at the downside.  Medicare is only there because of at one time the private sector didn't want to service a certain market--and with good reason. Elderly people use a lot of expensive health care.  What if we push a complete switch to private insurance for the elderly, and it fails again?  Then somebody (probably not us) is going to have to erect a new government system.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to contain costs, and open up the market.  It does mean we shouldn't count our chickens before they hatch.

440 I never really got into the Palin fan boy crap, but right about now id give her a footrub if she ran.

441 Reid loves to make a show of killing conservative legislation.

Posted by: Miss'80s at December 01, 2011 06:40 PM (d6QMz)

No Show Obama and Ho Hum Harry vs The Republican Nominee

_{^{i like it}}

442 I read an article about a month ago wherein the author stated that it would be difficult for any of the candidates to attack newt since he defended them all during the debates and stood up to the press at the same time.  They would not only appear to be not appreciative for doing so but they would also, according to said author, be decimated by the new smiling grandfatherly newt.  Made sense to me.  Brilliant  strategy and make no mistake about it, last night he said he had a strategy.

443

Some people still believe we can be saved by politicians.  We have our own Lightworkers we look to, men and women who are propelled forward by an Approved Narrative of True Conservatism no matter how many times they fuck us.  I've seen enough of our supposed saviors betray their voters, their party, and their own ideology,

Yes. So you SEE that. Huh. I'd have figured you for one of those woolly eyed simps, because I don't understand how you can see that, and come up with this:

that at this point I'll settle for whoever stands the best chance of unseating the incumbent Communist who only needs four more years to destroy life in this country as we have known it for at least the next several generations.  It's not a very hard choice for me.

It's no choice at all! Tiger eats you now vs. tiger eats you later. The only sane choices are fight or flight, because the damn tiger really is out to get you.

Mittens and Bambi are no different to me.

444 2 Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug. Newt doesn't drool, stammer and stutter while explaining his miserable failures. Nor does he forget the points of his deeply seeded 3 point plan to reform government. Nah, he just takes millions in tax dollars and expects you not to see his drool.

445

I would take Newt's balanced budget with no Romneycare any day over Mitt's balanced budget with Romneycare.

Come on all you "Newt is a big government" candidate.....If there is just one Republican figure in the last 23 years that is synonomous with controlling government spending, it was Newt.  No, Paulbots, Ron Paul has accomplished ZERO to that effect, in fact he has wasted his ability to accomplish anything to that end, however, Newt has accomplishments to that effect, NO OTHER GOP CANDIDATE DOES.

446 Meh.

I still like the tongue-tied Perry and would prefer to see him as the front runner because he has an executive record. 

Newt is someone I have no problem with, but his record is that of a legislator/noodler.

And Mitt?  Well, he's better than the SCOAMF. 

So there you have it.

447 Posted by: CAC at December 01, 2011 06:40 PM (a/Um5)

A thought I've been pushing around for a while.

The Republican Party today faces an electoral map in which, every presidential election -- no matter what the climate is or who its nominee is -- it's forced to write off three of the five largest states in the country, representing 104 electoral votes (California, New York, and Illinois).  It has to fight like hell to hold onto the fourth state, Florida (29 EVs), which used to be much easier.

This is never a good place to be starting from, and it's not a map Reagan ever had to worry about.  He won all of those states in 1980, along with a number of smaller states that are now extremely unlikely to be carried by any GOP candidate in the foreseeable future: Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Vermont, and Washington.

Altogether these states, in which Reagan was able to contend and win 30 years ago (and not just Reagan; all 50 states were regularly in play up until the '90s), represent 158 electoral votes that the GOP just plain has to cede, that aren't in contention even for the strongest Republican candidate, barring a massive electoral realignment that is not in evidence.

We can't afford to try to replay 2000 or 2004 this time.

448 I have probably spent too much time reading about Chicago bathhouses at Hillbuzz but at this point every-time I hear about Horndog but sniffin Cain and vagina Goldilocks Newt, part of me sighs in relief.... oh good no worries about rapes, bathhouses, boys, underage girls. etc.. BTW i'm now pretty sure Lindsay Graham is a poofter that gets blackmailed by lobbyists and the left.

449 I keep clinging to the historical factoid, that we haven't had three consecutive two term presidents since Jefferson, Madison, Monroe.

450 Newt is someone I have no problem with, but his record is that of a legislator/noodler.

And Mitt?  Well, he's better than the SCOAMF. 

So there you have it.

Posted by: Fritz at December 01, 2011 06:47 PM (FabC

Nope, he covered that last night.  In the thirteen years he's had to run his own small business.

I'm not sure who I'm for in this race but I do admire someone who is calm and has their ducks in a row.

451

@437: "Perry's still trying to find out how to mate Gingrich and Cain"

Let's be honest - Perry's still trying to figure out how to spell Gingrich and Cain.  And that other guy who might be in the debate - Prairie? Peary?  Not to worry, it will come to him.

452 We can't afford to try to replay 2000 or 2004 this time.

In other words, vote for Mitt.

453 I'm trying hard to get the weak ass argument straight here.

Are the people swinging towards Newt principle-less emotional retards for proclaiming him to be the Pure Conservative Hero when he obviously isn't?

Or, are people who are swinging towards Newt principle-less emotional retards because he isn't the Pure Conservative Hero and they are starting to support him anyway?

It seems to me that these people are clearly choosing Newt over Romney. That's Pragmatic. They are assuming, as am I, that their is no True Conservative Hero, and that unless something changes very drastically, the choice is between Newt and Romney.

And I sure as hell don't see any awesome advantage to Romney.

454 It's mocks itself

455 I never really got into the Palin fan boy crap, but right about now id give her a footrub if she ran.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 01, 2011 06:44 PM (Lj0L0)

You never know and it wouldn't surprise me.

456 Second look at Mitch Daniels?

457 Well, there certainly wont be an accounting for you, since your guy will fail to win the nomination. AGAIN!

What the fuck is this supposed to even mean?  Hey, if Gingrich wins the nomination and proceeds to actually win the Presidency, I will gladly eat as much crow as I can jam into my mouth on this blog every single fucking day for five months.  HAPPILY.  Because I want Obama gone more than anything else, and this is the ONLY thing that governs my choice at this point. 

But it won't happen, I'm pretty confident in predicting.  And then it'll be time for YOU to eat some shit.  Because it will be people like you who booted away our one chance to save the nation in a fit of pique that can't even be justified by conservative principle.  This is the truly galling part of it, the thing Ace wrote about in his previous post: you could justify supporting Perry, or Bachmann, or Santorum over Romney because they are, indeed "more conservative" than Romney.  But Gingrich isn't.  He's more liberal.  And he's also corrupt.  And he's also provably an immoral slimebag. 

There's no principle that can be discerned in supporting him except "he's not Romney" but that fails to make sense because the reason we're supposed to hate Romney is because he's a RINO flip-flopper...so how does that make it accept to support an even BIGGER RINO with an even WORSE record of flip-flopping (plus corruption, ethics violations, a horrible personality and leadership record, and a history of treating women like dirt)?  I honestly think it's animal reflex: he's Not The Guy The Establishment Likes, and that's all that matters.

458 Newt Gingrich was once second in line to the presidency. So there's that.

_{^{I know I know, so was Pelosi}}

459

Screw all this.

I'm writing in Dana Perino.

460 It's no choice at all! Tiger eats you now vs. tiger eats you later.
Posted by: Entropy at December 01, 2011 06:46 PM (ccBqU)

But if the tiger eats you later you have time to figure out a way to escape or kill the tiger.

And frankly, since in the past you've proudly told us that you're not a Republican, your opinions about whom my party ought to nominate mean less than nothing to me.

461

@448: "Santorum, Bachmann, Newt and Romney are smart."

Cross-out Santorum - he was regarded as dim even by Congressional standards, winning the "No Rocket Scientist" award during his stint there.

462 I never really got into the Palin fan boy crap, but right about now id give her a footrub if she ran.
-----
Foot rub?  You're doing it wrong, Mr. Pink.  ;-)

463

High atop a craggy peak in Alaska, Sarah Palin spreads her leathery wings, raises her face to the sky, and shrieks in ecstasy.

Oh, and do we still do the "I'll be in my bunk" thing around here?

464 That's exactly what the dems want.  Sarah Palin to run again so they are sure they have another 4 years.

465 crow v. shat I see what you did there....

466 You've really cast any and all supposed "principle" into the trashcan, haven't you?

Because whatever Newt Gingrich does is now presumptively The Actions A True Conservative Would Obviously Take.

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 06:44 PM (hIWe1)

Say what?

Writing an argument for someone else to use is not a big deal.  Maybe you think you write magical arguments that automatically convince everyone that your errant ideas are correct, but for in most cases having a lib come at me with an argument that a conservative constructed for him to best frame his liberalism would have no effect.  Liberalism is still liberalism.

I don't mind telling liberals exactly what's wrong with their ideas, which is exactly what would have to be done to frame their arguments in a better light for discussions with conservatives.  I'm happy to point out liberals' every little error to them.  Do you accuse me of aiding and abetting by letting them know where they've gone wrong in their liberal ideas?  Perhaps you do.  That seems to be how your thinking goes.

467 476 I never really got into the Palin fan boy crap, but right about now id give her a footrub if she ran.
-----
Foot rub? You're doing it wrong, Mr. Pink. ;-)

Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2011 06:52 PM (5H6zj)

For some reason I'm reminded of inappropriate T-shirts for babies that are on T-shirt hell. 2 in particular:

"All Daddy Wanted Was A Blowjob"

"All Mommy Wanted Was A Backrub"

 

468
Foot rub?  You're doing it wrong, Mr. Pink.  ;-)

I don't know about that.  Everybody knows foot and back rubs lead to sex.

469

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 01, 2011 06:52 PM (jAqTK)

I'm sorry, he comes across as the eternal college president candidate in debates, but Santorum is not dumb.

470 Posted by: merry at December 01, 2011 06:53 PM (oZfic)

Is there anything you're not an expert on?

471 For some reason I'm reminded of inappropriate T-shirts for babies that are on T-shirt hell. 2 in particular:

Those are funny... because they're true! 

472 I don't know about that.  Everybody knows foot and back rubs lead to sex.

Also true.

It's also well-established that men stop giving back rubs after they're married.  And they stop getting sex.  Which comes first? 

473 >>>I'm sorry, he comes across as the eternal college president candidate in debates, but Santorum is not dumb.

Santorum's problem is that he invariably sounds like a whiny prick, but it's transparently obvious that is he not only "not dumb" but actually remarkably fluent on a number of bread-and-butter subjects like foreign policy and social conservative stuff.  Not really the mix of strengths I'm looking for (and his personality is like sandpaper) but I hardly see how anyone could listen to the guy for more than 30 seconds and think of him as "dim." 

Perhaps the poster was confusing him with the genuinely retarded-seeming Bob Casey, Jr.?

474

I'm sorry, he comes across as the eternal college president candidate in debates, but Santorum is not dumb.

Posted by: ParisParamus at December 01, 2011 06:55 PM (dij/b)

"Pakistan MUST be our ally because they have nukes" 

Yeah he's a regular genius.

475 I don't know about that.  Everybody knows pancakes foot and back rubs lead to sex.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 01, 2011 06:55 PM (JYheX)

fixed that for you...

476 Die sock die

That's just German for "The Sock the".

477 >>>I see what you did there....

Well, yeah.  As e.e. cummings once said, "there is some shit i will not eat."

478 "Why anyone would go over there if they didn't have to for their jobs is beyond me. Even for a job, I'd think long and hard." My girlfriend's brother works in the oil industry in England and he had to fly to the Middle East for work. The plan landed in Iran and they wouldn't even let any of the westerners off of the plane.

479 Which comes first?

the Beiber

480

Altogether these states, in which Reagan was able to contend and win 30 years ago (and not just Reagan; all 50 states were regularly in play up until the '90s), represent 158 electoral votes that the GOP just plain has to cede, that aren't in contention even for the strongest Republican candidate, barring a massive electoral realignment that is not in evidence.

How have the states fundementally changed since the 90's?

You have right-wingers and left-wingers in every single state. 60/40 is considered a landslide, because 40% is usually such a small minority right? In politics it is.

Look at Wisconsin.

How was that (since the 90's) hardcore blue state turned pink?

By moderate republicans appealing to the center? By a goddamn ideologue who banned unions!

If you want to put up a fight, you have to motivate the troops. Give them something to fight for, to stand in the rain for. Give them something that makes them excited to go bother their neighbors.

481 @jamiedupree  Senate votes 99-1 in favor of modified language dealing with terror detainee powers for the US military

"Nothing in this section shall be construed to effect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

482 #412, There is no affirmative case for any candidate. 

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 01, 2011 06:28 PM (W8x1p)

 

Thank you.  Anyone whose enthusiastic about any of these folks is probably brain dead.  We're down to the battle  of the not quite as bads, and for me Newt is clearly not it.

483 >>>"Pakistan MUST be our ally because they have nukes"

Umm...

1.) That's not what he said.

2.) This is basically the same point that Bachmann made, and it's really inarguably correct: we need, to whatever extent possible, to keep Pakistan 'on the inside of the tent pissing out' rather than 'on the outside pissing in' so to speak.  They're too nuclear to fail, and if we let them slip from our sphere of influence entirely we've just made the world a vastly more dangerous place, not only for ourselves but our TRUE allies like Israel, India, etc.

As I said, if there's one area where Santorum is genuinely sharp and well-spoken on the merits, it's foreign policy.

484 Mutt Romney plans on campaigning in all 57 states.

485

Look at Wisconsin.

How was that (since the 90's) hardcore blue state turned pink?

Wisconsin was never a hardcore blue state.  Reagan won it twice, Clinton won it twice, and in both of Bush's elections it was decided by only a few thousand votes.

486  Mutt Romney plans on campaigning in all 57 states.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 01, 2011 07:02 PM (AF1jB)

We can't wait!

487

2.) This is basically the same point that Bachmann made, and it's really inarguably correct: we need, to whatever extent possible, to keep Pakistan 'on the inside of the tent pissing out' rather than 'on the outside pissing in' so to speak. They're too nuclear to fail, and if we let them slip from our sphere of influence entirely we've just made the world a vastly more dangerous place, not only for ourselves but our TRUE allies like Israel, India, etc.

As I said, if there's one area where Santorum is genuinely sharp and well-spoken on the merits, it's foreign policy.

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 07:01 PM (hIWe1)

Yeah they both said the same thing.  The same stupid thing.  Was the USSR always our ally?  Were they too nuclear to fail?  Because they sure as hell did fail.  What about Iran do we need to make them our ally once they get the bomb?  Will that regime then become too nuclear to fail?

 

488

How have the states fundementally changed since the 90's?

Many voters people have died and have been replaced with young voters who have a limited sense of American culture, decency, and the dangers of leftism.  Even if their understanding was limited and reactionary, people who were anti-leftist/communist were making the right decision.

Also, spelling skills have declined since then, Mr. Fundementally.

489

And frankly, since in the past you've proudly told us that you're not a Republican, your opinions about whom my party ought to nominate mean less than nothing to me.

Trust me dude, if all you guys want to support the candidate is registered Republicans, you guys are screwed way beyond being relevant to my life. I'm definetly in the wrong place. Prepare to become the 3rd party. What do you have, like 20, 30 million members nationally? That should be enough to get you 0 electoral votes.

490 >>>Writing an argument for someone else to use is not a big deal

You have to be kidding me.  In a world where politicians are supposed to stand for the right values (the very reason that TrueCons are supposedly opposed to Romney and now are flocking to Gingrich, in fact)...yes, whoring your name, your reputation, and your rhetorical skills out to an invidious organization that is anathema to conservatives and partially responsible for the downfall of the nation for money is A Big Fucking Deal.

How would feel if, instead of Fannie Mae, Newt was instead "just writing arguments" for Planned Parenthood?  Would that be okay?  Would you consider that a case of "oh, he's using his skills to craft arguments for others to use, it's not like he's affected by any of that?"  Just a 'hired gun,' right?

Really now? 

Really?

Your argument is so self-evidently retarded it defeats itself.

491 Wow, Al K da claiming they have an American hostage is trumped by it being "all but over" for herman cain, via the AP so I take it with a grain of salt.

492

Not to start a fight, but I am still waiting for the answer to my argument about states.

Neither party has unseated a President of the opposite party without flipping states they failed to the last time they won a Presidential race.

So whichever person ends up our candidate, if they fail to flip ONE of the following:

NH, PA, NJ, MD, DE, CT, RI, MA, VT, ME, IL, MN, WI, MI, HI, CA, OR, WA

They aren't going to win.

Someone may try to bring up 2000 with Bush, but he carried a state his father, the last R to win, failed to: WV (and it could be argued he also won Wisconsin without the fraud, which HW failed to) and with it the Presidency, for without WV's 5 evs he would have lost to Gore. All the wrangling over a stolen Florida would have been moot had Gore carried that state, one that Carter, Dukakis, and Clinton all carried.

493

  Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 06:35 PM (hIWe1)

Not everyone thinks you're as smart as you think you are.

494 Those who think keeping Pakistan on our side with money because they have nukes is a smart strategy are smoking crack.

Open a newspaper and see how that's working.

They shouldn't have nukes.  A smarter policy would deal with issues of that nature.  There is no placating them or befriending them with cash.  It's clearly not working.  We just look weak.

We need someone stronger to lead this country.  It's a very dangerous world, but shying away is not going to make it any safer. 

495

If there is just one Republican figure in the last 23 years that is synonomous with controlling government spending, it was Newt. 

Newt's big secret was divided government and the dotcom bubble.  Not really a record to run on.

And that was 15 years ago.  Since being ignominiously forced from office, Newt has spent over a decade advocating every me-too Republican welfare program to come down the pike and trashing Paul Ryan's one serious plan for getting spending under control.

496

But it won't happen, I'm pretty confident in predicting.  And then it'll be time for YOU to eat some shit.  Because it will be people like you who booted away our one chance to save the nation in a fit of pique that can't even be justified by conservative principle. 

Like I said, when the Messiah - Our Last Hope™ is failing, its always the fault of the dumb electorate, that fails to appreciate the dear leader. All that follows is venom.

I mean you recite all Gingrichs faults (some justified) and you still dont wonder "gosh, whats so damn wrong with my candidate that he is losing to this?". Nope, the others are always at fault.

You dont even notice how much you sound like a Palinista, do you?

Btw Romney came up with a comparable amount of flipflops in one mediocre term and 2 campaigns. Gingrich was a politician for decades and still managed to stay reasonably pro-life.

497 My notion can be expanded actually to any time the White House underwent a party change.

498

Posted by: doug at December 01, 2011 06:47 PM (gUGI6)

Hmmm.... you do know that Newt had to pay a huge fine to Congress, for ethics violations, and was pretty much run out of Washington on a Rail?

No one seems to be talking about what killed his carreer before... or they won't at least until he is the GOP nominee...

499 Posted by: CAC at December 01, 2011 07:07 PM (a/Um5)

Batchelor has been interviewing Selena Zito about Pennsylvania.  Apparently she is of the opinion that he's spending so much time going to the state because he's in trouble there.  She's pretty good, she knows her state.

500

@483: "I'm sorry, he comes across as the eternal college president candidate in debates, but Santorum is not dumb."

If you say so.  I was working on Capitol Hill when he was in his first Senate term, and he was considered to be about as bright as a squashed firefly's ass, though he was respected for the Gang of Seven stuff.

501

Which is why I keep telling you, while Republicans are happy to support whoever's turn it is, the rest of the voters you need, independents conservative and libertarian, are most certainly not. Which is why Bob Dole candidates always lose.

502 In Japan, man always come first.  Women come second.

503 All the arguments you have for why it should be perry or romney or newt can be solved by Santorum as the nominee.  But I think you'll all be shocked when huntsman wins New Hampshire.

504

Nope, he covered that last night.  In the thirteen years he's had to run his own small business.

What utter bullshit.  What pure cockslop.  Its voters like you that make me long for poll tests again.  And Newt knows very well that running his own lobbying and bribery shop isn't executive experience, but he cynically peddles this fart-talk that weapons grade morons like you repeat.  Good God, shoot me now.

505 Posted by: Entropy at December 01, 2011 07:06 PM (ccBqU)

Look, it's simple.  Join the Republican Party, participate in our primaries, and you'll have earned the right to tell us all our candidates can go screw and you won't vote for anyone.  Till then, it's tiresome and irrelevant to the people who are working from within the GOP to find ways to grab the voters they can actually reach.

506 Santorum comes across like fingernails across a chalkboard in a suit.

507 Some infamous Newt-isms his current adoring crowd may want to look at before they take him back: http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/284472/newt-gingrich-said-iwhati

508

>>>Look at Wisconsin.

>>>How was that (since the 90's) hardcore blue state turned pink?

>>>By moderate republicans appealing to the center? By a goddamn ideologue who banned unions!

Your question is completely undercut by the errors in its premise.  Wisconsin has never been a hardcore blue state.  It has, pretty much since time immemorial, been a sharply divided, 50/50 state.  In the 1990s it wasn't "hardcore blue," it was sending "Landslide Bob" Kasten to the U.S. Senate for two terms as a Republican while electing Tommy Thompson to a record five consecutive terms.  Russ Feingold, a true-blue liberal hero, was never able to more than 53% of the vote (even in a year like 2004 where he faced no real opposition) precisely because the state was and is too conservative for his brand of politics.  Similarly, Bush lost it by only FIVE THOUSAND votes in 2000 and only ten thousand in 2004 -- that's as "50/50" as it gets -- and remember this is in a state with major Dem vote fraud, so the GOP arguably would have WON both times in a world with honest voting.

Therefore your entire argument is completely pointless.  WI was sharply divided.  It remains sharply divided.  It hasn't changed at all in terms of its voting patterns.

It's easy to make cocky pronouncements about how True Political Change happens when you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about and you simply invent facts to fit your preconceived narrative.   I wish I could do that. 

509 Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus at December 01, 2011 07:11 PM (epBek)

He came off very well in that interview.  I'm sorry you don't want to hear that but it is true.  Perhaps you might want to go read his website that debunks all the newt myths.

hey, I liked herman cain.  I felt he was heartfelt.  The rest are professional politicians something the tea party says they didn't want in the next president but, since they have no say in the republican party, we're going to get a professional politician whether we like it or not.  reminiscent of obamacare.

Ron Paul is on kudlow.

510 Batchelor has been interviewing Selena Zito about Pennsylvania.  Apparently she is of the opinion that he's spending so much time going to the state because he's in trouble there.  She's pretty good, she knows her state.

Posted by: merry at December 01, 2011 07:09 PM (oZfic)

Michigan is looking problematic as well.

 

511

Thank you.  Anyone whose enthusiastic about any of these folks is probably brain dead.  We're down to the battle  of the not quite as bads, and for me Newt is clearly not it.

I disagree, but the cloud of dust thrown up, enabled by the Internet, that made pseudo-viable candidates of everyone from Palin to Daniels to TPaw kind of sucks.  We now have virual colonies of the politically catatonic (C4P, Hillbuzz, come to mind). 

The problem is that the fantasy analysis that makes Daniels or Palin viable Presidential candidates distorts the criteria applied to all candidates.  So Mitt isn't fit because he's not politically sexy enough.  And the lies about his changes in position can just take on a life of their own.

F lots of you if Newt gets the nomination.  Yes, he's not dumb, but he is as viable as Dole, and less viable than McCain.

512

*Sprays some febreeze on CAC to remove the cat piss odor*

513 Posted by: CAC at December 01, 2011 07:15 PM (a/Um5)

thank you for your updates I am finding myself looking forward to them and sharing them with my dad who is also looking forward to them.  I know it's a lot of work for you but we all so very much appreciate it.

514 NH, PA, NJ, MD, DE, CT, RI, MA, VT, ME, IL, MN, WI, MI, HI, CA, OR, WA

I can see Romney flipping NH and WI. Don't know if Newt can.

515

523

He came off very well in that interview.    Perhaps you might want to go read his website that debunks all the newt myths.

Sweetheart, its the Newt facts I'm concerned about, not the  myths (which are almost 100% being peddled by him, anyway).  Nor am I greatly reassured by his ability to win over drooling low-information morons such as yourself, no offense. 

516 Hey, you know what, folks?  How about we just IGNORE curious completely, instead of making the same dumb, repetitive "cat piss" jokes that clearly gratify her desire to be the focus of attention (even if only negative attention)?

Because honestly, as dumb as she is, the rote & predictable responses to her are getting nearly as dumb.  If you just pretend she doesn't exist she'll go away.  It's really not hard given that she never writes anything worth responding to anyway.

517 Should add MI to a possible Romney flip, still don't see Newt doing that.

518

Look, it's simple.  Join the Republican Party, participate in our primaries, and you'll have earned the right to tell us all our candidates can go screw and you won't vote for anyone. 

It's very simply wrong, and no amount of assertion shall make it otherwise, ever.

I have that right right now. I excercise it liberally. I've no intention of stopping and no one can make me.

Till then, it's tiresome and irrelevant to the people who are working from within the GOP to find ways to grab the voters they can actually reach.

Tiny violin.

Tu quoque.

519 Nor am I greatly reassured by his ability to win over drooling low-information morons such as yourself, no offense. 

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus at December 01, 2011 07:20 PM (epBek)

I take no offense, nothing bothers me.  I sense your frustration.  Most people are more like me than not and therein lies your problem.  You republicans need to seriously educate the country and fast.  As sy syms used to say "an educated consumer is your best customer"....he was right.   I come here for the education and the funny.  I always learn something, always.

520 >>>I can see Romney flipping NH and WI. Don't know if Newt can.

I can see Romney flipping far more than that: I think he takes NH almost as a given, and makes MI, WI, PA, and perhaps even MN competitive.  The next tier of states (NJ, CT, OR) are a bridge too far, methinks.  But that would be more than enough.

Not only can I not see Newt flipping even a SINGLE state Bush lost in '04, I can see him LOSING several more Bush '04 states, like MT and MO.

521 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

522

*Sprays some febreeze on CAC to remove the cat piss odor*

Posted by: buzzion at December 01, 2011 07:17 PM (GULKT)

I am just bringing up an interesting and damning tidbit about elections.

Bush won 2000 thanks to success in Clinton states. One in particular went to Carter twice, Clinton twice, and Dukakis but failed to go to Gore (and thus denied him the Presidency just as much as Florida)- West Virginia.

 

If you can't pick out a Kerry state that 2012 Republican Candidate X will flip, that candidate is going to lose the general election.

 

523

Posted by: CAC at December 01, 2011 07:24 PM (a/Um5)

Its not about what you said why you need the febreeze.  Its about who you were responding to.

524 OMG, we are going to put up Newt?!  I probably use the F word less than Romney, but you nominate Newt, you are a FUCKING MORON.

525 How would feel if, instead of Fannie Mae, Newt was instead "just writing arguments" for Planned Parenthood?  Would that be okay?  Would you consider that a case of "oh, he's using his skills to craft arguments for others to use, it's not like he's affected by any of that?"  Just a 'hired gun,' right?

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 07:06 PM (hIWe1)

I wouldn't really care, because Newt couldn't write anything that would make the argument for Planned Parenthood fly.  Nothing.  Same as with Fannie and Freddie.

Evidently, Newt's arguments were so effective that no one had ever heard of them.  Wow.

526 >>>If you can't pick out a Kerry state that 2012 Republican Candidate X will flip, that candidate is going to lose the general election.

So I ask Gingrich supporters: which Kerry '04 state is Gingrich going to flip?

But of course this level of analysis is absolutely abhorrent to the sorts of people supporting Gingrich.  Their model of general election victory seems to be "we nominate Gingrich despite his baggage and unsuitability...and then a miracle happens."

527 I think he takes NH almost as a given, and makes MI, WI, PA, and perhaps even MN competitive.

That would be the first time Minnesota when Republican in like forever, not going to happen. Romney may make it tight but Obama would have to make a major blunder to flip PA I think.

528 >>>OMG, we are going to put up Newt?!  I probably use the F word less than Romney, but you nominate Newt, you are a FUCKING MORON.

Read the posts written by "really..." in this thread for an insight into the reasoning processes employed by many Gingrich supporters. 

Newt was whoring for Fannie and Freddie?  No biggie, he's just 'writing arguments,' that's all -- nobody's going to hold that against him in the general election, bro!

529 The real truth is probably worse than whatever bullshit Newt is putting out OR whatever conservatives think. It is that Newt was paid a couple million dollars by Freddie Mac to do...... Nothing. I posted on this the other night, but I guess nobody read it. Fannie and Freddie hired every lobbyist and near-lobbyist and economist and juggler and circus clown they could find. I worked for an organization for a time that could not find a lobbyist that had dealt with mortgage issues, because ALL of them were under contract to either Fannie or Freddie. And most of them did NOTHING. The real lobbying was done by the CEOs themselves, or their senior in-house lobbyists. And also by their big mortgage company customers, who they blackmailed into lobbying for them, and the Realtors and Homebuilders, who pushed the homeownership bullshit. Freddie generally worked more with Republicans since Fannie owned the entire Democratic Party. I am totally not surprised that they hired Newt Gingrich, though I never heard of him doing any actual lobbying and I was VERY, VERY closely involved with this legislative battle over the GSEs from 2001 through the day they collapsed in 2008. What Freddie got from Newt Gingrich was this: An announcement in Politico and Roll Call saying that "Freddie Mac has hired The Gingrich Group to provide strategic consulting services." This was supposed to be a dog-whistle to conservatives that there were big-name conservatives supporting the GSEs. I would be shocked to find that Newt had more than one or two meetings with the Freddie people. But he served their purpose. It's bad that Newt allowed his name to be used by Freddie Mac in defending itself to Republicans. It's not as bad as him actually actively lobbying for Freddie, which I am pretty close to 100% sure did not happen. I can guarantee that Newt Gingrich had ZERO influence on anything Congress actually did or didn't do. The vast majority of Republicans in Congress who supported the GSEs did so because the Realtors and Homebuilders told them to. Both organizations made these Key votes, meaning no PAC money if you voted against them. Now, what this says about Newt I don't know. When he got the "gotcha" question in the debate, he sure as hell could not just say he didn't do much of anything for all that money. So he came up with some bullshit and now he is getting called on it. I won't give him a pass on it, but it isn't a deal-breaker for me either.

530 The Melodic prophet "Slade" warned us of this situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHoPYLQvnQM For it is written that: " See Chameleon, lying there, in the sun, all things to everyone, RUN RUN away. "

531

Fun fact- Santorum, Gingrich, Huntsman, and Perry have actually all polled (at their peak) well in at least 1 Kerry04 state.

Gingrich polled reasonably well in Michigan

Perry in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania

Huntsman in Pennsylvania

Santorum in Pennsylvania

Paul in Pennsylvania, New Hampshire

The only candidates NOT to: Cain, Bachmann, Johnson, Roemer.

532 "but you nominate Newt, you are a FUCKING MORON.

Posted by: ParisParamus at December 01, 2011 07:27 PM (dij/b)"

I hope you're mistaken about that.  I honestly am surprised he's doing so well, but then, the real reason is that the right is rallying to shut down Romney, whom I think is not electable because of his flip flops and incompetence in the interview format.

He can't hold even a quarter of his own party's confidence.  He's been running the longest, spent *by far* the most, has the most endorsements two elections in a row, and all it takes is video of Romney's flips flops and most people reject him.

Is Newt better than that?  I think so.  Romney's die hards act as though Romney will sweep across the country, but the guy just isn't very good at politics.

I'd prefer a reelected Governor, but Daniels isn't running and Perry shows incompetence in the debates. 

533 I have that right right now. I excercise it liberally. I've no intention of stopping and no one can make me.

You do indeed have the right to be a child.  As well, everyone else has the right to put your pissing-into-the-tent-from-outside into that context.

534

Give Newt and the Republican congress some credit:

Federal spending was restrained to approximately 3% annual growth during a booming economy. 

That's how we got to the point of a budget surplus.  If we had been spending like Delays, Bushes, Pelosis, or Obamas during the 90's, we'd be 20 trillion in debt instead of 15.

 

535 Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 06:35 PM (hIWe1)

Let me see if I have this right....Newt's flaws and baggage will lead to DOOM! but nominating Mitt and his flaws and baggage will lead to the conservative Promised Land?

You sir are a fucking political genius!

536 " You do indeed have the right to be a child. " And that snappy comeback attempt is a bit childish in itself don't you think? Not to mention less that intellectually persuasive?

537

So I ask Gingrich supporters: which Kerry '04 state is Gingrich going to flip?

I dispute the fact that any of you people have crystal balls.

You will sit here and say Romney will flip this or that. I think you're full of shit.

But it is the giving season so...

Gingrich keeps NH, OH, and FL and takes PA from the Kerry column. WI won't be called until a week after the national election is and may go either way.

MN and MI would become teases this time around,  instead of their normal absolute 0 frigidity.

Same goes for ABR && ABO that can get 50% in the primary.

If we can consolidate around anyone and our candidate has >50% support within his own party at the tail end of the primaries, he will win.

If our candidate wins the primaries with <30% support he crashes in flames Bob Dole style.

538 But of course this level of analysis is absolutely abhorrent to the sorts of people supporting Gingrich.  Their model of general election victory seems to be "we nominate Gingrich despite his baggage and unsuitability...and then a miracle happens."

Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 07:27 PM (hIWe1)

And you wondered why he became a Catholic and is now tight with God?

539

I hope you're mistaken about that.  I honestly am surprised he's doing so well, but then, the real reason is that the right is rallying to shut down Romney, whom I think is not electable because of his flip flops and incompetence in the interview format.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like crypto-astroturfing.  Most of Romney's interviews are fine, or better, and please provide a list of supposed flip-flops.  His Brett B. interview wasn't great, but it was only remarkable because he is usually good in the format.

As much as I like Newt, he is never going to win the Presidency.  Not that he doesn't deserve to, but because his brains and nerdy-ness doesn't resonate with enough people.  My horror is not that Newt would be a bad President; it's that he will never get elected.

Me and Chris Christie won't let Newt get the nomination.

540

You do indeed have the right to be a child. 

Neener neener tiny weener.

As well, everyone else has the right to put your pissing-into-the-tent-from-outside into that context.

Tu quoque! Tu quoque.

541 Let me say one more thing on this. I feel fairly certain that NOBODY who posts on this blog other than me knew what the fuck Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac was in 2007. It is really pissing me off that this is suddenly a new litmus test for conservatives. There WERE conservatives defending them right up until the day they were taken over by the government -- BECAUSE THEY BOTH LIED TO EVERYONE, including their regulator, about what they were doing and because they had the entire fucking housing industry blackmailed into lobbying for them. You want to know who Fannie and Freddie's biggest enemy was? It was a guy named Jim Leach, possibly the only Republican who ever served in the house who was to the left of Mike Castle. And the second biggest one was Chris Shays, notorious RINO from Connecticut. The conservatives in the House never had much to say about them because they were being told what to do by the Realtors and the Homebuilders.

542

Me and Chris Christie won't let Newt get the nomination.

Posted by: ParisParamus at December 01, 2011 07:39 PM (dij/b)

well, annie will definitely join you.

And, for what its worth, I love Christie...he has some record before he was governor...guiliani style..

543 >>>Let me see if I have this right....Newt's flaws and baggage will lead to DOOM! but nominating Mitt and his flaws and baggage will lead to the conservative Promised Land?

I never said Romney would lead to "the conservative Promised Land." Unfortunately for us, that choice is quite obviously not on offer this election cycle.

I have said -- and continue to maintain -- that nominating Romney (yes, even with all HIS flaws and baggage, which are much less of a problem in the general election) will lead to a Land Where Barack Obama Isn't Reelected.

Which is pretty much all we can reasonably hope for right now. 

544 He can't hold even a quarter of his own party's confidence.

Golly gee, he has held more of it than any other candidate over the past nine months and more. 

545

I say again, all 30 million of you Republicans will lose in a landslide to the SCOAMF without voters like myself, who are apparently childish and just pissing in your tent and jerking with you.

But you're welcome for every win you've ever had.

546 Neener neener tiny weener.

You're my kinda guy. Would you perhaps be a candidate for office?

547

>>>Gingrich keeps NH, OH, and FL and takes PA from the Kerry column. WI won't be called until a week after the national election is and may go either way.

>>>MN and MI would become teases this time around,  instead of their normal absolute 0 frigidity.

And what data can you point to in support of these magical claims, other than your Gut Hunch?  Because I can show you poll after poll that shows Gingrich getting pasted by Obama in every one of these states, and several others you didn't mention (like VA and CO and NV) as well.

Oh right: polls don't matter.  They're just tools of the MSM and The Establishment. 

548 Just a thought - GSE's might be an idea you can get behind, but still be totally against loaning money in large amounts to people who can't pay it back. Sure we can argue that in the end, liberals will try and buy votes with any GSE or government related program, thus they can never be a good idea.

549 I say again, all 30 million of you Republicans will lose in a landslide to the SCOAMF without voters like myself, who are apparently childish and just pissing in your tent and jerking with you.

No, the kinds of independents we're looking for, and who matter, are the ones who can be persuaded to vote for our candidates.  You, on the other hand, are just a malcontent who never had any intention of voting Republican, so who cares about trying to get voters(?) like you?  You can write in Zombie Reagan, get to feel smug, and the election gets to go on without you.

550 Remember, the left sees a potential voting block of a group of people loosely defined as "5.7 billion people not currently allowed to vote in American" and they think that they can find .005 billion of those to bring on in here and set-up a permanent hold on the country. So hopefully, the 100,000 people being shipped here every month won't make all these discussion about Wisconsin or New Hampshire a moot point.

551 Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 07:41 PM (hIWe1)

Yeah, Mitt winning the general is inevitable. Just like his winning the nomination is!

552 Disclaimer- my factoid about flips is not a push for Romney. It is just showing that when we hope to flip the WH we need to look beyond our own base states (especially those we never should lose like VA, NC, FL).

553 So Mitt has 1/2 valise of Romneycare Baggage. Newt has a UHaul of corruption baggage. I still want a list to the flip flops

554 "Golly gee, he has held more of it than any other candidate over the past nine months and more. 

Posted by: ParisParamus at December 01, 2011 07:41 PM (dij/b)"

Are you sure about that?  I'm pretty sure Romney has never been even close to where Newt is presently.

And of course Romney's support was higher nine months ago.  He's been running for president for 67 years now.  He's spend 50 trillion dollars over that time.

And yet, all it takes to convince, and I mean convince people not to support Romney is video of Romney from not that long ago.

You lament that Newt kinda sucks, and maybe you're right.  I honestly can't say.  I think Newt comes across better than Romney ever has, and he's more successful, smarter, more patriotic, and frankly, has more character.  Is Newt perfect in any of those categories?  Absolutely not.  But then, anyone running for president is probably kinda screwed up upstairs.  It's a horrible life.

Anyone but Romney.  Just my opinion.  Gun grabbing amnesty cap and trade Romneycare... I don't care that he's claiming the opposite.  I know a tree by its fruit.

555

And what data can you point to in support of these magical claims, other than your Gut Hunch? 

Absolutely none because it doesn't exist yet.

My crystal ball is telling me the polling won't reflect that until 5 or 6 months from now at the earliest. None of the current general election polling is remotely relevant to or indicative of jack shit a year out.

So, again, I know you've got bubkis that can predict how many EV's Mittens will nab, because I know you can't see the future either. We are in the same ignorant boat, whether you know it or not.

Think about it - if you could predict that, we wouldn't need to have elections. We could just ask you.

Did you predict Gingrich polling 40's in FL? Oh. Didn't think so. Huh.

556 CAC, don't you think Obama is past saving at this point, regardless of who the Republicans nominate? I think we should all just simma down a little bit and vote for the guy or gal we want, because we're all voting for the GOP nominee next November and so will at least 50% of the country.

557 >>>Yeah, Mitt winning the general is inevitable. Just like his winning the nomination is!

Neither is inevitable.  (In fact, I tend to agree with Ace that, the way things look right now, Romney won't win the nomination.)  But I feel quite confident in asserting that a general election win is vastly more likely with Romney as our candidate than Gingrich.  And you have been utterly unable to make the opposite case, which is why you've retreated into snark, and misrepresenting my arguments: the sure sign of someone who knows their position is a loser on logic and the merits, but who wants to hold to it anyway out of emotional attachment. 

Fine, that's your right.  But don't pretend that you couldn't have seen a Gingrich general election loss coming from a mile away.  You clearly seem to have made your peace with Newt's failings.  But don't act shocked when the general voting public, which isn't even really AWARE of them at this point, isn't equally as willing to do so.

558  CAC, don't you think Obama is past saving at this point, regardless of who the Republicans nominate? I think we should all just simma down a little bit and vote for the guy or gal we want, because we're all voting for the GOP nominee next November and so will at least 50% of the country.

Posted by: rockmom at December 01, 2011 07:51 PM (A0UFZ)

His ability to sucker indies worries me, but I think if the election were held today, he would lose.

Candidates do matter (look at Dole in 96, Goldwater in 64, McCain in 0 , but if the incumbant is absolutely loathed, with a significant chunk of his supporters disheartened, the WH flips.

559 And you have been utterly unable to make the opposite case,
Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 07:53 PM (hIWe1)

You've confused "haven't tried" yet with "utterly unable".

560 >>>CAC, don't you think Obama is past saving at this point, regardless of who the Republicans nominate?

No.  This is what people who analyze voting trends and polling data have kept trying to point out over and over for months, in despair at the base voters who blithely seem to have convinced themselves that since THEY know that Obama is a SCOAMF that sure, everyone else must think so too.

Read Jay Cost of the Weekly Standard, who is pretty much the single smartest poll analyst on the Right these days: he keeps trying to sound the alarm that, regardless of Obama's current approval ratings, support for him among his base PLUS the particular ideological makeup of 2012's 'swing electorate' is such that the GOP can EASILY lose a winnable race if they nominate the wrong guy.  And he's explained why, in great analytical and numerical detail, Gingrich is definite The Wrong Guy.

561

No, the kinds of independents we're looking for, and who matter, are the ones who can be persuaded to vote for our candidates. 

That would be me.

You like to assert factually inacurate things when you don't get your way, don't you?

You, on the other hand, are just a malcontent who never had any intention of voting Republican

There you go again. I'm so happy I found an expert on me I can ask what I will do.

I've  repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said I would vote for Herman Cain, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Gary Johnson, Buddy Roehmer and Ron Paul over Obama.

But you're right, I doubt that helps you at all if you've decided failshit Mittens is The Only Man Who Can Save America.

Hey Ace! How about a correlary post about how when the Truely Sophisticated make up their mind that they like something, it just has to be the only sane thing in the world no matter how consistently fucking absurd and stupid they end up looking when it collapses on them?

562 571 CAC, don't you think Obama is past saving at this point, regardless of who the Republicans nominate? I think we should all just simma down a little bit and vote for the guy or gal we want, because we're all voting for the GOP nominee next November and so will at least 50% of the country.

Posted by: rockmom at December 01, 2011 07:51 PM (A0UFZ)

No Obama isn't past saving, don't delude yourself into think that. This election will be as tight as 2000.

563 Jay Cost: Newt Gingrich will lose the center, and the Presidential race -- http://tinyurl.com/7tlq42n

But I suppose he's now an Establishment RINO too, as opposed to the single smartest and most reliable elections analyst conservatives have seen since Michael Barone's heyday.  His sober analysis can be safely ignored, because...Newt is Magical!

564 It's imperative we nominate Mitt Romney! You know the guy who thinks Bret Baier is unfair and cried out to Anderson Cooper to save him from world class debater....Rick Perry.

565 Thanks, CAC. I've been saying for months and months that the only candidate who Obama could realistically beat was Sarah Palin. Obama has lost the independent voters and they will not come back to him. In 2006, a lot of Democrats were panicking because they thought Hillary Clinton was inevitable and she would lose. But by the time of that election Bush had collapsed so badly hat even Hillary would have been elected easily. Same thing happened to Jimmy Carter. I personally went into that campaign thinking that Reagan was too conservative to beat Carter. He didn't change or move to the center at all, but Carter collapsed to the point where any Republican would have beaten him.

566 I've  repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said I would vote for Herman Cain, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Gary Johnson, Buddy Roehmer and Ron Paul over Obama.

Yes, I'm sure you would.  You seem like that type.

567

You know the guy who thinks Bret Baier is unfair and cried out to Anderson Cooper to save him from world class debater....Rick Perry.

LOFL.

568 >>>You've confused "haven't tried" yet with "utterly unable".

Nah, I'm calling bullshit on this one.  You "haven't tried" yet because you can't do it, at least not plausibly.  I'm sure you could write a post imbued with the same variety of Magical Thinking "and then a miracle happens!" crap that has gotten a number of people on board with him, but nothing that actually would pass logical muster.

You remind me of the guy I knew in neighborhood growing up who kept insisting that of course he could dunk a basketball, he just "didn't want to prove it to us" yet.

C'mon, Drew -- you don't have to write a front-page post.  Even a brief a precis in the comments would do.  Give it a try.  Prove that you're not just supporting Newt out of the new conservative version of Freud's old "Death Instinct."  Because I think you've become one of those "I want to lose rather than win with That Other Guy" folks.  I think you're no longer all that concerned with voting Obama out of office.

569

Yes, I'm sure you would.  You seem like that type.

Yup. I'd vote for the dude who runs the pot lab Sativa Sciences running for the Lib nomination over Obama too.

I've always been consistent and up front about that and never lied.

My first choice is still Rick Perry though.

So.. you got me! I'm .. uh.. anti-christian, anti-american, pot-smoking, baby-raping terrorist sympathising Rick Perry supporter.

570 Posted by: Jeff B. at December 01, 2011 08:00 PM (hIWe1)

Cost's entire analysis is based on the mid-90s and assumes nothing has changed.

By that standard we should only judge Mitt on his 1994 Senate run. You know the one he lost 58-41.

So in this apples to apples comparison Mitt was losing a race by 17% and Newt was heading the first GOP House majority in 40 years.

ADVANTAGE: Newt.

571

If there's one thing a libertarian/classical liberal like me hates more than capitalism, it's the EPA and the Dept. of Education, because they are just not communist enough for me, and that's why I like Rick Perry.

That's the ticket Undead.

572 So.. you got me! I'm .. uh.. anti-christian, anti-american, pot-smoking, baby-raping terrorist sympathising Rick Perry supporter.

That's all well and good, but I may be able to give you a third option that lets you really stick it to that big, bad GOP.

573 Rasmussen Reports:

Gingrich 45 Obama 43 (Nov 28-29)

Obama 44 Romney 38 (Nov 21-22)

Also of note in that Gingrich poll is that he currently leads among unaffiliated voters by 18 points.

Obviously any poll is nothing more than a snapshot of the current mood, but anyone with common sense knows that Romney is more electable.

574

Drew makes a wonderful point by the way.

As terrible and retarded as he is, Romney and Bachmann are the two candidates who have lost a debate to Rick Perry this cycle.

It still makes me LOFL.

575

That's all well and good, but I may be able to give you a third option that lets you really stick it to that big, bad GOP.

I'd rather have Gary Johnson or Rand, they are not crazy antisemtic gold bugs.

But I'll take what I can get and Paul is still probably better for Israel than Obama.

576 It still makes me LOFL.

Me too! Actually I'm giggling most of the time in between bong hits, but it's good to have your support anyway.

577 Ace: Eh, I guess I'm butthurt that my guy's miserable failures seem to stick so firmly in people's heads while other guy's miserable failures get a shrug.

This is a good point. The major thing distinguishing them is the order in which they happened: Newt *appears* to have benefited from the intense anti-Romney movement whereby you've ehausted all other options and this is all that's left, so fuck it.

I'm not a big fan of Mr. Perry, but substantively he is light-years ahead of Gingrich in terms of ideology and the sheer politics of it.

Rick Perry is the Palin of this cycle, a promising governor plucked from their hugely popular position at the last f-ing moment to help fill a perceived (or real) gap in the nomination. There is just no way you can master these nation-state level topics to the requisite level by skimming a few debate prep manual: as both Palin and Perry unfortunately found.

578 Dustin, you sounded legit until you alleged that Romney is less patriotic than Newt? WTF does that mean?

579 To follow up on my previous post. People slight Romney for running for president for the last 6 years, for being slick and informed of the issues because he's had 6 years to study up. Well, that's not a bad thing, maybe, just maybe, that's what we need.

Yes, I'm looking at your fresh off-the-bench-ass, Obama.

580

There is just no way you can master these nation-state level topics to the requisite level by skimming a few debate prep manual: as both Palin and Perry unfortunately found.

It ain't gonna be Romney, so if Perry is unacceptable, better start donating to Bachmann or Cain, or get comfortable with the Newtie Newtster.

581

Me too! Actually I'm giggling most of the time in between bong hits, but it's good to have your support anyway.

I just hope your learning something from this ever so substantive debate. I know it can be so taxing for you to keep up with all these heady and important subjects, and Republicans hate taxes.

582 588 Rasmussen Reports:

Gingrich 45 Obama 43 (Nov 28-29)
Obama 44 Romney 38 (Nov 21-22)

Of course I must default into believing the data available over my preconceptions which are colored, as are everyone's.

That said, the cross-tab breakdown and shift leading to Romney's number's degrading and Gingrich's increasing are suspect. Generally, you'd expect to see head-to-head number show a dramatic shift as they are zero-sum.

You would NOT expect to see a 1:1 (or greater!!) shift in general election results given the overlapping pool of voters which are ideologically biased into voting for a not-Obama or a not-Republican. Yet, our friend Scott Rassmussen's numbers are showing bizarre movement...

Unless there was some bizzare anti-Romney movement which would turn him off to Republicans in both conditions. Given his recent mediocre interview was just this week and the polls sampled last week and over the weekend....

583 FWIW, I'd take a 'gold bug' over someone who thinks it's okay the Executive branch can informally have the Fed (a central planning institution) create a couple trillion more dollars for whatever pet cause they want (I'm looking at you EU) without even needing Congressional approval or oversight.  Backed up of course by the unwitting taxpayer.  And it was Paul whose rhetoric pushed guys like Perry, Gingrich, and Bachman (and Ace, though he predictably laced it with hate) closer in that direction.

Any more pressure on the Fed from whomever should be considered a godsend for anyone worried about our fiscal position at this point.

584 *he's more successful, smarter, more patriotic, and frankly, has more character.* Dustin, it takes more than this to be a troll on this blog.

585 I just hope your learning something from this ever so substantive debate.

Republicans never learn; you know it and I know it.  That's why I'm counting on you to get on my train after that nasty GOP nominates the wrong guy.

Remember, you have the power!

586

Unless there was some bizzare anti-Romney movement which would turn him off to Republicans in both conditions.

I know! Bizzare! Where would they hide such a thing?

It reminds me of all those goofy climate skeptics postulating about giant nuclear heaters in the sky many times bigger than our planet. I think we would notice that!

It's not like half the GOP has waged Jihad on him for the last 8 months straight or anything like that!

So what caused the coma?

Good to see you back on your feet though!

587 It ain't gonna be Romney, so if Perry is unacceptable, better start donating to Bachmann or Cain, or get comfortable with the Newtie Newtster.

Lets be honest, forget the internet dick-measuring bullshit of I'm a bigger, better conservative than you than over my principled position on X, etc.

To win you need party organization and a strong hierarchy. Only two camps have the ability and funding: Perry and Romney. Mr. Perry is out by self inflicted wound. Romney's crew will eat the Obama kids playing on facebook alive, we all know this.

It's a binary choice: do you want to win and grab the presidency and maybe all branches of government (Stevens is fading), or do you want to lose to Barack H. Obama again.


And I'll vomit if I hear that bullshit about Newt following Obama around, "minus 4 hours." No, it's not a good idea. The media will not talk about it. You look like a crazy old white stooge. No, nobody outside of us (ie. people who like politics so much they go on the internet to talk about it) will watch a 3 hour debate. Fucking American Idol can't keep a 3 hour crowd.

James-fucking-Cameron loses people during his 3 hour marathons, and that's a once a decade event deigned to make young girls fall in love and weep.

588

Any more pressure on the Fed from whomever should be considered a godsend for anyone worried about our fiscal position at this point.

M1R, I think you're losing sight of what is really important here, which is that right now someone, somewhere, is having fun. Possibly even smoking marijuana in the privacy of his home.

And nobody has kicked down his door, shot his dog, and used his shoe to pin the guys face to the floor yet! We have to do something!

We cannot tolerate this kind of total lack of respect for the absolute authority of the government!

589 Ace was also predictably oblivious when he said, with such authoritative certainty, that inflation has been low since the 1980s.  Sure if you're a mathematical illiterate who has no concept of how much 3-4% a year builds up over time.  According to the CPI the dollar has lost half its value since 1980.  (You can calculate it yourself at http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Infla) And if if you ignore the convenient cut off the of the 1980s, it's lost 98% since 1913.

Good thing Republicans aren't the party that believes people's long-term savings should be worth a shit, or something.

590 It's not like half the GOP has waged Jihad on him for the last 8 months straight or anything like that!

Which just caused a sudden jolt threw the Matrix of Conservatism at the same moment Scott's numbers show Gingrich moving.

Please reread my post and try to understand the bizarre movement(1) before making even grander comments on systems like the environment, which you really don't understand. My thanks.

(1) Dumbed-down: When you look at the crosstabs, which I bet you haven't, WTF event caused conservatives and republicans (who dont like Obama) to suddenly say, fuck it, I'm going to vote for Obama over Romney? Voting for Gingrich over Romney is understandable, but again general election statistics -- which aren't zero-sum -- never show a 1:1 or greater mapping, yet here....

591 You would NOT expect to see a 1:1 (or greater!!) shift in general election results given the overlapping pool of voters which are ideologically biased into voting for a not-Obama or a not-Republican. Yet, our friend Scott Rassmussen's numbers are showing bizarre movement...

I didn't look at the cross-tabs but given that Obama's number is essentially the same in both polls I'd hazard a guess that the difference between Gingrich's and Romney's number has to do with support from independents. I suspect that in the Gingrich poll more independents selected Gingrich while in the Romney poll more independents selected undecided.

592 Yeah, I understand Entropy. Though I think it has less to do with that than the fact that 'the terrorists are going to convert me and force me to marry their camel!'

Or that, you know, Iran's going to cross the Atlantic ocean and invade New Jersey.

593

Please reread my post and try to understand the bizarre movement(1) before making even grander comments on systems like the environment, which you really don't understand. My thanks.

Systems like the environment I don't understand? 1 question.

Anthropogenic global warming: True or false?

594

Good thing Republicans aren't the party that believes people's long-term savings should be worth a shit, or something.

Yeah that would be bad politically.

Everyone is $60,000 in debt to Mastercard these days and that's the way we all like it.

595 Or, I forgot - Israel, which hasn't needed the U.S. to fight alongside it for 60 years, and has the strongest military in the Middle East by far, as well as a couple hundred nukes, somehow needs the U.S. holding its hand (and as actually occurs in practice, holding it back) 24/7.

596

Or, I forgot - Israel, which hasn't needed the U.S. to fight alongside it for 60 years, and has the strongest military in the Middle East by far, as well as a couple hundred nukes, somehow needs the U.S. holding its hand (and as actually occurs in practice, holding it back) 24/7.

To the tune of 10 billion a year.

Without that 10 billion to counterbalance the matching 10 billion we give to each of her 3 or 4 most dangerous foes, this advanced modern society would just go belly up worse than Greece. No doubt.

597 Ghost said: I suspect that in the Gingrich poll more independents selected Gingrich while in the Romney poll more independents selected undecided.

Yeah, but more than that there is actual movement away from Romney in the Republican and leaners, very odd given the stability. So, either he's been fatally wounded by Ace and friend's who are on their anti-Romney fatwa to the point they've turned into Obama voters, it's a horribly outlier sampling, or it's a salted sample.

Entropy: Anthropogenic global warming: True or false?

AGW is a marginal component of the environmental system's normal output; thus, it exists but is negligible -- at this time -- and likely 'falls out' any representative first approximation of the entire system. Current models have skewed input variables and are horrifically underpowered in terms of modeling the feedback motifs involved (both in terms of mathematical ability and computational limits), but that doesn't eliminate the fact that out sheer presence is altering the system and more liekly than not in a unidirectional direction toard higher temperatures.

This also doeesn't mean we should invest in green or carbon tax. Given the rate of increase in technologies that effect energy output and hopefully, soon, manufacturing (ie. molecular nanotechnology), it makes no sense to invest large sums to fix a small problem that could be solved much cheaper given the nearly exponential rate of increase in many technologies.

598 There's where that crazy stealth crypto-antisemite Rand comes in, trying to pretend like if we stop giving Israel 10B and also stop giving Egypt 10B at the same time, that that's not the same thing as driving the Jews into the sea.

599 I hope you never stop!  This is one of the best blogs Ive ever read.  Youve got some mad skill here, man.  I just hope that you dont lose your style because youre definitely one of the coolest bloggers out there.  Please keep it up because the internet needs someone like you spreading the word.

600

AGW is a marginal component of the environmental system's normal output; thus, it exists but is negligible -- at this time -- and likely 'falls out' any representative first approximation of the entire system. Current models have skewed input variables and are horrifically underpowered in terms of modeling the feedback motifs involved (both in terms of mathematical ability and computational limits), but that doesn't eliminate the fact that out sheer presence is altering the system and more liekly than not in a unidirectional direction toard higher temperatures.

Well... I'm suprised. Good answer, I'd agree. I thought you were going to give me enviroweenie crap for a moment there.

Save to point out that just because by our sheer presence we are obviously interacting with our environment, does not necessarily mean that the impact of 10,000 years of Modernity will be substantial enough to consider worthy of mention, or more than the margin of error on our ability to predict the climate.

Currently of course, the margin of error on our ability to predict climate change may as well be plus or minus a factor of 5 for all the good models that must ignore the sun completely due to grossly inadequate computational limits will do you.

601 Yeah, but more than that there is actual movement away from Romney in the Republican and leaners, very odd given the stability. So, either he's been fatally wounded by Ace and friend's who are on their anti-Romney fatwa to the point they've turned into Obama voters, it's a horribly outlier sampling, or it's a salted sample.

Was that movement away from Romney going to Obama or was it going to undecided? The latter I could see as being plausible but not the former, especially since Rasmussen's November polls all show Obama between 43 - 46%.

602 Interestingly if you've read Netanyahu's books, he argued that Israel needed to wean itself off of the aid money, as it was neither good for the Israeli economy nor Israeli independence to be (or even more importantly, to feel) dependent on the United States. Which, with someone like Obama in office, was quite astute.

Much of that money actually serves more of a purpose as an indirect pay-off/subsidy to American defense contractors, anyway. 

Personally I'm hoping that the recent, if predictable, events in Egypt increases the likelihood that we cut off their own annual subsidy.

603 326.  What is the affirmative case for Mitt, please?

In my case it was the economic plan with pro-business agenda and the ideas on cutting and streamlining regulation and government.  Not many people download and read his full plan, but I'm an insomniac and can't stand late-night TV so I read things. There are a lot of common sense deregulation and a lot of intent to reverse or dismantle what's been done in the Obama Admin., and there's things like opening new markets, creating the Reagan Economic Zone and a personal favorite: Designate China a Currency Manipulator and Impose Countervailing Duties.  I see him as the most ambitious of all the candidates - beating Obama is just a stepping stone, he really plans to restore American business across the board.

Some people think this makes him out to be a corporate tool and they could be right; I'm just willing to chance it and I also know that he can already buy and sell a lot of corporations out there, it's not like he needs the extra cash.  I also know from living under his governorship that he can be an asshole and feel justified in being so, especially in when in financial "rescue" mode.  I believe that he will make deep cuts where needed, and I also believe that he's not going to make deep cuts where not needed and will treat the matter of taxes the same way.  Overall I think there will be a lot of gasping and shrieking and hollering from all corners if he's elected and no one will "own" him, which for me is another selling point.  If you're looking for someone to take direction from the party, the Crossroads PAC or the Free Marketeers, keep looking.

Just my opinion.



   
 

604 Syria, for its part, is fucking dead in the water. Fighting your own people with an increasingly dilapidated military does that to you. And Hizballah's big in the mouth, but ultimately relatively small and unimportant outside of Lebanon. (Though their rockets are a problem.)

605 Chin up, Ace; it won't be over until we're actually voting.

606 Ghost: Was that movement away from Romney going to Obama or was it going to undecided

I don't remember the numbers off hand, but it *appeared* to be a significant part captured by him.

Excellent point though, the movement in-and-out of the undecided pool is harder to track without very fine grained data or just looking at the aggregate, but when the movement is big, its notable.


Entropy: Well... I'm suprised. Good answer, I'd agree. I thought you were going to give me enviroweenie crap for a moment there.

Haha. Well, thank you. You never know who or where a person has been; which leads us to lessons 2 and 3: never trust a "girl" on the internet and always use a condom.

I happen to agree with your comment as well. Hope to see you around.

607
That is useful information and its quite easy to come a croper if you are not vigilant.

608

Personally I'm hoping that the recent, if predictable, events in Egypt increases the likelihood that we cut off their own annual subsidy.

Pakistan too.

Syria, for its part, is fucking dead in the water. Fighting your own people with an increasingly dilapidated military does that to you.

I was making the point in another thread, the Arab world isn't what it was in the 60's.

If Egypt tries some funny business, they'll wind up mostly alone. Half the islamic states (well, the governments at least) are far more worried about each other than Israel.

If Syria sent it's army abroad to fight anyone, even the Jews, the country would revolt in it's absence. Assad hasn't the capacity to fight a war with Israel. He needs his army home, or he won't keep it at all.

And in that ensuing chaos, the Turks, Russians, Iranians and Saudis would all be too busy fighting each other for influence in Syria to bother with Israel.

It would pretty much be just Egypt, maybe with Iranian missile support.

And hezbollah and hamas etc. etc. but those cards are already on the table. They're already waging total war on Israel 24/7/365.

Egypt would get spanked.

609 I knew his answer at the last debate regarding this was an outright lie the minute it came out of his mouth.  He is a cocky bastard that thinks he is smarter than we are.  He knows just what to say to bullshit us along and sadly it is working.

610 I agree with Ace that Perry deserves another look.  Hell, Santorum deserves a first look.

611 You really make it seem so uderstandable with your presentation but I find this topic before really hard to understand. It seems too complicated and very broad for me.

612 If Egypt tries some funny business, they'll wind up mostly alone. Half the islamic states (well, the governments at least) are far more worried about each other than Israel.

They'll also be operating highly maintenance intensive American equipment, without a source of supplies for parts and ammunition. The same situation Islamic Iran found itself in when Iraq invaded in 1980.

Truthfully, though, I don't think we're going to cut off Egypt's billions of dollars a year until such an emergency. Take it to the bank, the new argument's going to be that we can't withdraw money now, lest we give up our influence! "And hey, we can't make mean faces at the Muslim Brotherhood, after all, they're not as bad as those Salafist guys!!!!!!"

Though I doubt I have to tell you this, welfare programs and their acolytes, defense or otherwise, always find new reasons to justify their continued existence. And almost always find fools to fall for them.

All of these countries are so fucked up that, though they will focus their rhetorical fire at Israel as a bogeyman, they'll lose badly in any conventional war. Israel's problems are demographics, Iranian nukes, and terrorists/guerrilla movements. Problems that American support doesn't negate, and in fact from the Israeli position almost always complicates more than it helps, since we bring our own regional baggage into Israeli's calculations and force them to hold their hand. 

Besides, as you've said, HAMAS and Hizballah are irritants, but they aren't going to roll back Israel. Iran's nukes are different and potentially serious problem, but we aren't going to go to war with Iran. (This is another area where the Republicans talk big, but aren't going to follow through ... and considering how awful we fight wars nowadays, and how seriously fucked we are in Afghanistan, that's probably a good thing.)

613

Yeah...

Thank God NATO is still here to keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down in Libya.

614 Hey, what's an unconstitutional war between friends, when its meant to save Sarkozy's domestic electoral fortunes and cover for Cameron's stupidity.

I remember when Republicans/Conservatives were slobbering over that French creep.

615 But what can you do. I mean it isn't as if America's own founding fathers could have foreseen the potential dangers and mindfucks of entangling alliances. Least of all with craven Europeans.

616

I remember when Republicans/Conservatives were slobbering over that French creep.

I was too. But I didn't know much about him.

I think it was because he was a (albeit French) right winger who was throwing out the (albeit French) corrupt center-right French dickhead, NOT actually French himself, an atlanticist, not actually French,  and they called him 'The American'.

But perhaps we forgot. You have to remember, it is the French who call him the american. And the French who call him Atlanticist.

He's basically still French it turns out, as - sadly - remains France...

617

Cameron too. I was happy when I first heard of him, all I heard was the glowing media. Real promise.

That guy's a total douchebag. God their fucked.

I'd have probably spent the last decade and the next voting UKIP, or else BNP where more effectful just to fuck with the government and slow them down bickering with themselves. (Same reason why I really don't care even if Ron Paul is a racist truther, I'll take Dr. No wherever I can get him, the government was suppose to be full of diverse and ecclectic kooks who agree on nothing and do mostly nothing)

Harper has been OK for Canada. But that Bush era phenomena of conservatives sweeping the globe seems to have been mostly all Bush era 'conservatives'.

618 Yeah, it was at least superficially refreshing to throw it in the Democrats' faces that supposedly pro-American leaders had replaced Chirac and Schroeder. Who admittedly were worse, if not that much worse, than Sarkozy and Merkel.

In fairness to you, Chirac was a snake. He was the man who engineered the sale to Iraq of the Osirak reactor - known in the French press as the 'Ochiraq' reactor. So was Schroeder, whose foreign minister was a leftist terrorist in the 1970s. Neither were friends at all of America.

Unfortunately though, if you're a small-government, traditionally conservative Republican, you have almost zero friends in European politics. And many of those you have we've already sacrificed to the altar of the EU, as they tend to be Euroskeptics (and the foreign policy technocrats in both U.S. political parties have been major boosters of the great trans-nationally progressive EU).

619

Cameron too. I was happy when I first heard of him, all I heard was the glowing media. Real promise.

That guy's a total douchebag. God their fucked.

I'd have probably spent the last decade and the next voting UKIP, or else BNP where more effectful just to fuck with the government and slow them down bickering with themselves. (Same reason why I really don't care even if Ron Paul is a racist truther, I'll take Dr. No wherever I can get him, the government was suppose to be full of diverse and ecclectic kooks who agree on nothing and do mostly nothing)

Harper has been OK for Canada. But that Bush era phenomena of conservatives sweeping the globe seems to have been mostly all Bush era 'conservatives'.

I completely agree, though I admit I haven't followed America's hat all that closely. I'd also vote UKIP. (BNP, true to its pseudo-fascist roots, has too many socialist economic tendencies for me to stomach.) I've become a very diligent, albeit depressed, fan of British political and intellectual history. I say depressed because the more I read, the more I see that we're largely paralleled their political development, albeit at a slower pace. I think that Cameron and the neutered tories are, absent some major political and economic shock (which probably be for even the worse, they're probably the Republican Party's future).

If I may make a book suggestion, I strongly recommend checking out W.H. Greenleaf's trilogy on British ideological and political history. I've only finished the first two volumes so far, but it's fascinating stuff with great relevance to our own history. From what I've seen of your postings here, I think if you don't find it too dry, you'll love it.

our future.
we'veve tended to lag them

If I may

620 Whoops, so much for editing.

621 There's no good way to explain why it is that some bad stuff sticks to people and some does not. The Democrats couldn't get anything to stick to Reagan and I think it has a lot to do with how people handle it when it comes up.

Plus, depending on how personal things are, people will react differently. The more personally threatened or targeted people feel, the less likely they are to forgive something easily.

Newt is really good at going "yep, bad decision, my bad, and here's how I'm different. And F Obama" when he's confronted. He's slick, he's a smooth liar - or he's really that changed. Its hard to tell. Romney looks like a politician, he oozes that slime that lawyers do. People don't believe him when he says he changed his mind - or they believe that the change is only temporary for a purpose.

Newt is better at it. People either believe him, or are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, probably because of how astoundingly intelligent he seems.

Honestly, we're screwed. It doesn't really matter who wins, at this point, and we're going to be stuck with someone for whom Republicans will go "do i really have to vote?"

Obama should be crushed in the election, he's a lousy candidate without any of the cachet and hype he had last time. But I bet you this time next year we're all tearing each other to pieces about what candidate would have won if only the other guy hadn't screwed it all up and let Obama win.

622

Jeff B.

I don't see where you are coming from.  I understand you think Mitt is electable, however, I see him as poison.  The republicans that I know have told me they would not vote for Mitt in the General if he were up against Obama and would vote third party. 

These people did not vote for Ross Perot when he was running.  I really, truly believe that there is a very large percentage of the Republican base that will NOT vote for Romney when the General Election comes around.  By large, I mean he could lose 6 to 8 points just from Republicans sitting it out.  There is NO WAY he could make that up from independents. 

Mitt Romney leading the ticket would be the only guaranteed way to create APATHY a voter set that is primed right now to be exuberant to kick Obama out.

623

I admit I haven't followed America's hat all that closely.

I'm not paying a TON of attention either, but it's Canada, and I'm usually suprised. They just pulled out Kyoto. Finis.

Canada doesn't buy into any of that global warming stuff, eh.

Hell, they want us to let them build that pipeline to Texas that Obama just punted on.

He doesn't get a lot of libertarian consideration from what I can tell, but I can tell you 1 Texan who I really see making damn sure that Canadian crude reaches the Gulf.

624 Perry's actually my fourth choice, after Paul, Johnson, and Bachman. Here I'm supposedly a member of the 'purity brigade.' On more libertarian leaning sites, I'm supposedly a GOP booster (*laugh*), because I'm willing to go off the stereotypical 'libertarian' reservation, and don't find Christian politicians  inherently icky. (Particularly those whose with strong federalist views.)

That said, Perry's a pretty distant fourth choice.  Whomever wins the Republican nomination is going to need to be constantly pressured from the right if he wins, as opposed to what happened under Bush. As such, I disliked the cult of personality that quickly grew up around Perry, someone who I fear could be as politically malleable and ideologically empty as Bush. I'm also an extremely strong border hawk, as I believe that large-scale immigration has been one of the strongest factors in completely shifting U.S. political culture over the past century, from the ethnic ghettos that backed the New Deal to the 2/3rds of non-whites that still support Obama today. And I sincerely believe that Perry is an open borders ideologue just like Bush.

However, though I don't trust him, I'd vote for him. On the basis of court appointments if nothing else.

All in all, I still fear we're fucked though.

625

I've only finished the first two volumes so far, but it's fascinating stuff with great relevance to our own history. From what I've seen of your postings here, I think if you don't find it too dry, you'll love it.

I'll check out the book, you do make it sound interesting. I had kind of a similar reaction from what you sound like when I read Anthony Everett's Cicero: The Life And Times of Rome's Greatest Politician.

He picks it up a hundred years before Mark Tully was born, with Tiberius, and leads into Cicero's life. All his contemporaries are there. Caesar, Mark Anthony, Cleopatra, Pompei, Crassius, Brutus,  Cassius, Cato, Augustus, Mithridates, Vercingetorix, up to the death of Cicero, murdered on top the corpse of the Republic.

George Lucas's nonsense aside, that was actually how democracy ended once. Something theretofor unparalled in history, that for all it's barbarous bullshit, was still better than anything that we've seen before it. A more advanced society.

The parallels I saw, in the politics and even the way it's conducted, in the corruption of the institutions, a core constitutional crisis, reformers vs. entrenched interests fighting over the very concept of what the state meant. It was occaisionally amusing and terribly fascinating but mostly very worrying. I read it and thought - I think I know what course the autopilot is on.

It took Rome about 150 years from the assassination of Tiberius who proposed fundemental land reforms, of increasing polarization, leading eventually to more common assassinations, mob violence, then decades and decades of outright civil war, dictators and political purges, until the the populist hero Caesar finally won so decisively and implemented broad reforms that lasted centuries and certainly saved the Empire (for better or worse, probably worse, but Caesar was a patriot), which he was then assassinated for, and then one last civil war...

Caligula... Nero... a competent Constantine here or there but mostly straight downhill. Several generations of incest-tard emporers later it was all over.

The values and ethics and men of the Republic created the successes and victories and wealth of the Empire, and then the Empire turned and ate the very things that created and sustained it.

626 On more libertarian leaning sites, I'm supposedly a GOP booster (*laugh*), because I'm willing to go off the stereotypical 'libertarian' reservation, and don't find Christian politicians  inherently icky. (Particularly those whose with strong federalist views.)

Well, that and I'm a foreign policy pragmatist who's perfectly willing to ruthlessly smite people if it's actually to protect American liberty. (As opposed to spreading big-P Progressivism abroad, which is the current primary focus of American foreign and military policy.)

627

I just added Anthony Everett's book to my Amazon shopping cart. Frankly, I'm more of a modern history guy (reading my way backwards), but your post reminded me of one of the Teaching Company's audio courses on Roman history that I listened to. I remember having similar thoughts when they talked about Tiberius' reforms and the polarization/civil disturbances that eventually followed. I remember I tended to be a little more antagonistic towards Caesar and sympathetic towards Brutus.

I don't know why, considering the amount of awful history I read, but for some reason Vercingetorix's demise, being carted through Rome in a cage has always particularly depressed me.

"The values and ethics and men of the Republic created the successes and victories and wealth of the Empire, and then the Empire turned and ate the very things that created and sustained it."

Frankly, I worry that our Enlightenment founding, with its views towards the perfectibility of man, may have served similar purposes for us.

628 Rick Perry: "I'm not a draft dodger, can Mitt or Newt say that?"

Actually a Rick Perry quote would be: "I'm ahhh not a draft skipper, umm no I dodger before Mitt skipped, or I mean Newt so both uhhh were not like well like I wasn't... neither can say that?"

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630

Well, sure. Verc is a hero (albeit French) to his people and Caesar to his. It's brutal, that's how it was done in those days. That barbarian was no saint himself.

I wouldn't make Caesar into a legend. Just the opposite, I think there is the Myth of Caesar and then the actual man, Gaius Julius the historical person, and the two are quite seperate. That's my view. Certainly, from the early Empire onward the image and Myth of Caesar was revised (heavily, back and forth) as mostly an authoritarian symbol and figgure.

The fact is, and Everett touches on this a bit, we don't know much about him for real. Ironic, that he's such a central character, and yet there is a hole. Save his commentaries on the Gallic and (maybe, probably forged) Punic wars, none of his writings survive. None of his philosophical dialogues, or transcripts of his political and legal oration..but we do know he was a prolific writer and speaker. And a VERY contentious figure throughout history - anything around him is suspect of revision. He has been many things to many different people for millenia.

You read around the gap and try to fill in the holes. There's a bit of projection going on maybe, but by my reading, everyone has him all wrong. So misunderstood, that poor tragic Caesar.

Mark Anthony the Shakespear character, very noble. Marcus Antonius, a dim-witted thug, trust-fund baby with good parents, a pushy charming jock, with no aptitude whatsoever for anything non-combat related. (And yet still, no Caesar, and no Octavius in that department either). Great pitbull lieutenant I guess.

At any rate, I am hitting the sack. Been fun talking to you M1R. I'll check out that book.

631 Doug said: I don't see where you are coming from.  I understand you think Mitt is electable, however, I see him as poison.  The republicans that I know have told me they would not vote for Mitt in the General if he were up against Obama and would vote third party.

While this is a popular sentiment online and oft repeated in many conservative circles, remember that people's social networks are overridingly of like minded individuals. What you're saying is approaching tautological; it will be observed almost by necessity.

Until this recent round of polling which I was discussing earlier in this thread....

Romney was actually atteacting a higher percentage of the Republican and (on average) of the self-identified conservative vote than the other candidates.

Unbelievable, given the social biases we see, but the polling was saying so. And, logically, it must have been so for him to be pulling in 45-47% of the vote in head-to-heads with Obama. The only other way, if we go with the default assumption he had low republican support -- which defines 30+ percent of the electorate -- is that he was trouncing Obama in the middle. In which case, there is no question he should be our nominee as the down-ticket coat-tails on that would be ridiculous given the way districts are balanced. Reagan or FDR-ridiculous.

This is also why the recent drop in Romney-v-Obama polling is fucking scary. If the arch-conservatives on their little fatwa really moved voters back from Romney to Obama, then fuck it all. Pox on you. Enjoy your lubed slope to single payer.

632 Posted by: Entropy at December 02, 2011 02:25 AM (ccBqU)

You hit on exactly on one of the major reasons that I end to read more modern history - which is that I'm extremely distrustful of secondary sources and there's many more primary sources to check myself. (My distrust is derived in part from my perceptions of the inaccuracy of popular perceptions even in our own time.)

Thanks to you as well for such a delightful conversation. Hopefully we can do it again and you'll let me know what you thought of Greenleaf. I plan to order Everett's book myself.

Regards.

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634 great post thanks

635 Thanks to you as well for such a delightful conversation. Hopefully we can do it again and you'll let me know what you thought of Greenleaf. I plan to order Everett's book myself.

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637

very interesting read i will come back