1 Ron Paul says someone else wrote his essays: HANG HIM!
Newt Gingrich says someone else wrote his essays: Forgiveness.

2 Newt is a sucker of the cock.

3 Mr. Hammond said the Newt Notes essay wasnÂ’t written by Mr. Gingrich himself.

Don't any of these candidates hold their own opinions?

4 Has anyone checked to see if Newt has anything left of his feet?

5 According to this post @ Legal Insurrection, this isn't news.

6 Funn how the Democrats in the media cannot dig this deep when looking at Obama's past.

7 Spigot, Where the hell did you see any suggestion we should pretend Gingrich didn't authorize that newsletter? You Paul-heads need to go away somewhere.

8 I'm not really into any of these  candidates.

However, any one of them, even Crazy Uncle, would be better than Obama.

Something to remember on election day.

9

Today from Newt:

1.  Thoughts on national kielbasa policy.

2.  Lawn darts:  Let's bring them back.

3.  Force every fifth federal judge to eat paper copies of their opinions.

4.  New constituional amendment endorsing constitutional amendments.

5.  It's time for an education revolution:  Switch the fourth and fifth grades.

6.  New export initiative:  Aglets.

7.  We should invade Nauru.

10 It's news, to me, in the most important sense of news: I didn't know it previously, and now I do. I knew Gingrich supported the mandate. I didn't know he supported RomneyCare specifically.

11 The dog did my homework.

12 >>>However, any one of them, even Crazy Uncle, would be better than Obama. Not for me.

13 However, any one of them, even Crazy Uncle, would be better than Obama. Uh, no. If Paul is the nominee I will actively campaign for Obama.

14 Get the government out of it. We need private run insurance. Free market competition will bring prices down, and it should be disconnected from your employer.

15 again.....newt should focus on the quality of his thoughts rather than the quantity.....

16 One of my big issues with Newt is that he had voiced support for the mandate. Hey, ace did you see Mitt's support for the VAT? Why the hell aren't we rallying around Perry again?

17

again.....newt should focus on the quality of his thoughts rather than the quantity.....

This.

18

Don't any of these candidates hold their own opinions?

One does. Rick Perry: flat tax, balanced budget, part-time Congress, making Washington insignificant in our daily lives.

All currently being ignored by the MFM. If you don't look for yourself, you'll never know, just like a certain SCOAMF back in '08.

19

 So, Newt has his own problems with that newslettter thing...which was written by someone else ...but that's ok! He's one of us!

 (Where's the gnashing and weeping and tearing at your clothes, the way ya did over Paul?)

 Ya don't like Romney. Newt's scary, at the best of times. Perry can't put a coherent thought into words...and ya hate Paul. Bachmann and Santorum are in the also ran category.

 So, I guess it's back to being responsible voters and considering resumes and records and accomplishments or something...'cause none of these folks are really the type you'd invite over for dinner. ...except Paul, but only in the same way you'd invite your crotchety uncle to your house.

 

 

 

 

20 As I said on the last thread, I'm much more worried about Romney's current support for Masscare than I am about anything Newt said in 2006. 

But I agree with Joffen: why settle for either of them when there's Perry in the field? 

21 i'm sending perry some money today

22 The best thing about Obama-Pelosi Care? It's still really unpopular. So, whoever ends up as our nom, he will have to promise to dismantle it.

23

Boned.

24 Gingrich ’06 Memo: “Agree Entirely With Gov. Romney” on Health Care

So this quote actuatlly doesn't exist and ABC and Jonathan Karl just made this up because they have "penis issues"

25 6 Funn how the Democrats in the media cannot dig this deep when looking at Obama's past.

Heh, as "Bo Snerdley" said on Twitter this morning (it was about Gingrich's divorce papers, but this piece on Gingrich also applies): 

Gingrich's divorce papers released. Man, it's something how they can find every piece of paper on a Republican but Jack squat on Obama.

26 Since Mr. Romney mentioned a consumption tax, would he rule out a value-added tax? He says he doesn’t “like the idea” of layering a VAT onto the current income tax system. But he adds that, philosophically speaking, a VAT might work as a replacement for some part of the tax code, “particularly at the corporate level,” as Paul Ryan proposed several years ago. What he doesn’t do is rule a VAT out. from Hot Air and WSJ

27 I don't give a rat's ass about "heartless," but the honest truth is that Rick Perry's about half as articulate as G.W. Bush, and W could barely stutter and stumble his way through a campaign. Perry can't even stutter and stumble his way INTO a primary season, when he's spotted $15 mil, and a 30 point lead in the polls, for god's sake. And, like it or not, one thing a president has to be able to do is speak. If not eloquently, then at least adequately.

28 We need a reset button. Someone fish it out of Pantsuit's ass.

29 Romney's kind of dick and seems to have little sense of people, nevermind conservatives, but on paper he's... well he's something. Not sure what.

He's a Morrrre-Munnnnn.

Which will be his complete unraveling if he wins the Nomination. 

Mark my words, the Dems and the MSM will "go there".

30 >>> So, Newt has his own problems with that newslettter thing...which was written by someone else ...but that's ok! He's one of us! As I just asked someone else, c*nt, where do you see me saying "that's ok"? Fucking assholes. Go back to your wormy pits.

31

But I agree with Joffen: why settle for either of them when there's Perry in the field?

Perry's start was debilitating.  I still like him, but...you know the rest.

32 i would never invite paul to dinner.......i would never let paul around my kids.....and i pitty his patients..... aside from him being a nutjob.....he's a creep......

33 And, like it or not, one thing a president has to be able to do is speak. If not eloquently, then at least adequately. Yes, and that's why our current CIC needs a teleprompter lest he turn into Barky O'Stumbles. Gimme a break.

34 And, like it or not, one thing a president has to be able to do is speak. If not eloquently, then at least adequately. Posted by: notropis at December 27, 2011 10:48 AM (cjcCc) Well that's what I'm saying. He's been a horror show as a Presidential candidate. He can barely hold his own against a Bachmann or Santorum. My point about his conservatism isn't whether it is sufficient or not - I just don't get why people think he's somehow the very personification of Mr. Conservative, the Second Coming of Barry Goldwater. He's not.

35 >>>Mark my words, the Dems and the MSM will "go there". So what? If they "go there" we go Jeremiah Wright/Indonesia/Madrassa 24/7.

36 Uh, no. If Paul is the nominee I will actively campaign for Obama.

Get a grip, man.

37 27. Obama has a crutch - his teleprompter. Republicans do in fact need to be able to speak. I agree: If Perry could speak, he'd be at the top.

38

It's a gaddam shame that in a country of over 300,000,000 people, we get this field of candidates.

It's really fucking depressing. I am mentally preparing myself for Obama's 2nd term.

I'm going to contact my doctor and get an open-ended prescription for Fuckitol.

39

Just once, I'd like for the idiot Paulbots to address the problems with His Grand Idiotness and not mewl about being discriminated against.

He.  Is.  An.  Idiot.

Next.

40 100 bucks says if we nominate Romney and lose again like in 08 the party elite will try yet again in 16 to shove a moderate liberal down everyone's throat expecting a different result.

41 Amid such generalities, it’s hard not to conclude that the candidate is trying to avoid offering any details that might become a political target. And he all but admits as much. “I happen to also recognize,” he says, “that if you go out with a tax proposal which conforms to your philosophy but it hasn’t been thoroughly analyzed, vetted, put through models and calculated in detail, that you’re gonna get hit by the demagogues in the general election.” That also seems to explain his refusal to propose cuts in individual tax rates, except for people who make less than $200,000, which not coincidentally is also Mr. Obama’s threshold for defining “the rich.” ---- From the same WSJ interview. Did Romney really refuse to do this? Jesus H. Christ. What the hell is the difference between Mitt and O'Bumbles?

42 It's really fucking depressing. I am mentally preparing myself for Obama's 2nd term. I have a hunch that Huntsman's long-term presidential strategy is counting on it. Only thing is, he needs to convince himself he really is a Republican.

43 Gingrich is the worst candidate we have (not including Paul, but then he's not really a republican). Between this, his previous advocacy for global warming, and countless other issues it's obvious that Gingrich doesn't care about conservatism, he cares about Gingrich and making sure he stays in the news (and that you all know how much of a genius he is).

44

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Newt has a lot more baggage that will be opened, showing some dirty underwear. The MSM loves him, as a foil, and will draw it out to gain maximum exposure ( and readers/viewers ). Of course, keep in mind that Newt has bought this upon himself.

It becomes clearer each day that Mitt will be the nominee, even with a Ron Paul victory in Iowa, that just won't matter, and Romney's predicted strong second place finish with garner bigger type fonts in the MSM than Pauls predicted win.

If you are ABO, then adjust your thinking, and find ways to focus on defeating Obama. That is the goal, nothing else. We can deal over time with Mitt, or whoever does prevail, if Obama is denied his second term.

A Record of Failure

45 We need an goof old international crisis and we might just get one

46 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

47 Get a grip, man. Yeah, I'd rather vote for the guy who's not a truther, thanks.

48

There is zero question that consumer-centric health "bare bones" plans (HSA's, etc) would help drive down the cost of health care and health insurance, but the "across state lines" issue is a red herring.

It is not the solution we are looking for.

49 TweedleMitt and TweedleNewt. And the MFM in full vetting mode. We're fucked.

50

25 - They left become mega-sleuths and every little bit of info is a big deal.

Newt named his childhood dog barky. Proof he's a racist!  Obama went to crazy-church and was supported by a former terrorist and the media can't be bothered to mention it. Still waiting for Obama's grades.

51 So what? If they "go there" we go Jeremiah Wright/Indonesia/Madrassa 24/7.

On what media outlets?  Here? 

Ace, I get your point that religion should be off the table, but Ma and Pa Evangelical will only hear what the MSM has to say in their smarmy, educational, just-to-better-inform-you tone....

52 We're fucked. So, you're not a Perry fan?

53 I realize the "heartless" comment was offensive and stung people emotionally. But we're not nominating a Best Friend here, for crying out loud.

Ace, I know that hurt him but let's not pretend that's his only problem. Even the debates are only part of the problem.

He hasn't demonstrated a lot of familiarity (let alone mastery) of some basic issues. He comes off nearly as clueless as Herman Cain does on some things.

To me his biggest problem is he's a pretty radical candidate (I mean that as praise) but when you listen to him talk he sounds like he hasn't a clue why he's proposing this stuff, how to get it done or what the impact might be.

Look at Social Security..When you listen to him talk about it it comes down to three lame talking points all the time: It won't be there for younger workers, it's a Ponzi scheme and workers in Galveston went with a private system. Now both of them are correct BUT if you are going to talk in such intermediary language and scare the piss out of people (or be demagoged like Mitt did to him and Obama will) you better be able to convince people you know what you are talking about and have a reasonable plan to replace/fix it.

He simply doesn't sound authoritative on that or issue after issue.

You can dismiss this as "flash" and "polish" but it's the same problem Palin had...Perry simply doesn't seem credible to a lot of people. If he can't pass that test with voters who should love the guy, what reason is there to believe he can convince the dreaded "swing voter"? Or even more importantly actually be an effective President?

54 even Thomas Hobbes wouldn't vote for Obama.  Wouldn't vote for Ron Paul, either.  Tom was a cranky old sourpuss and Closet Fascist, but not crazy or suicidal

and you all know that Romney will be...............the nominee

Learn it; live it; love it.

55 It's interesting how the ida seems to have formed that one cannot get any health care without insurance.  What about people paying for their health care out of their pocket?  That seems to be illegal - to these folks.

This is just another of Gingrich's Pelosi-couch sitting.  This is why Gingrich started out this primary with something like 1% support.

But, this doesn't worry me about Newt, since he would never hold this position past one clear debate with a conservative who cleaned his clock with the conservative facts of the situation.  Newt's forte is not being conservative, per se, but being able to understand what the conservative position on something is (though he might still not espouse it) and being open to logical debate and changing his mind when presented with the actual facts (which Newt does).

I write off the above to another one of Newt's special "here's the conservative path within this anti-conservative world" nuggets.  No big deal.  Newt can be intellectually beaten off of this position in a second.

56 2012: The Year America Ended.

We really don't have a choice anymore, do we. 

Thank you, idiot Liberals in the MSM, the education system, and in the permanent bureaucracy. 

57

Yeah, I'd rather vote for the guy who's not a truther, thanks.

Seconded although, I would not vote for Obama either.  Firmly seated on the bench in that scenario.

58 He hasn't demonstrated a lot of familiarity (let alone mastery) of some basic issues. He comes off nearly as clueless as Herman Cain does on some things. What issues are you talking about?

59 Ace is either in the UK or damn, he is off to a running start.

60 Anyone who decries Perry on immigration and then turns around and supports Mutt or Newt is (1) being disingenuous or (2) stupid

Anyone who supports RP is either (1) a doper looking to legalize weed or (2) Crazy

61 Tan, rested and ready, Bitches!

62

btw,Where's Jon Corzine these days? Shouldn't he be in jail with Bernie Madoff? Oh wait- Jon Corzine is a democrat. He's above the law.

63 Just wait until Inevitable Mitt locks up the nomination and MSM goes full court press on Mormonism

64  We have two GOP candidates who will soon be disavowing their high-school yearbook comments.

I'm waiting for Barack Obama to claim not to have written 'Dreams From My Father'.

65 Seconded although, I would not vote for Obama either. Firmly seated on the bench in that scenario. Yeah, I don't have the luxury of staying home and not participating. 2012 will be my first vote as an American.

66

I realize the "heartless" comment was offensive and stung people emotionally. But we're not nominating a Best Friend here, for crying out loud.

I was one of those really really ticked off by the heartless comment, both by the content and by the failure to be moderately prepared to answer obvious questions aspect of it.  Seriously, it's not that hard to have a canned line about "I understand that people disagree about this, but this was the best way to handle the situation in Texas".  See, it took me all of three seconds to think up something better!  Not.  That.  Hard.

I'm still for Perry but his failure to be prepared in the debates is bizarre.  Hey, I'll forgive the brain freeze on the three departments because there but for the howling insanity of Cthulhu go I.  But once you throw your hat in the ring, you have to prepare.  Despite the SCOAMF's actions, Presidentin' is hard.  If you can't get ready for the debates, that's worrisome.

I am surprised to hear that Newt didn't write those, if any of them would actually being doing their own writing, I would expect it to be Newt.

2.  Lawn darts:  Let's bring them back.

3.  Force every fifth federal judge to eat paper copies of their opinions.

Dude, those would get my vote. 

 

67 So the establishment gets McCainin 08, Romney in 12, who are they going to put forward in 16 Jeb fucking Bush?

68 Shorter Me: The Rick Perry that is actually running isn't as impressive as the version I keep hearing about from Ace and the guys at Red State.

I wish it were otherwise but it's not. YMMV.

69 That also seems to explain his [Romney's] refusal to propose cuts in individual tax rates, except for people who make less than $200,000, which not coincidentally is also Mr. Obama’s threshold for defining “the rich.” Things I would expect Romney to do would include: 1. Step Obama and his EPA's War on Energy Independence. 2. Rollback the tidal wave of regulations. 3. Concentrate on lowering capital gains taxes, something that would have enormous benefit for the economy. 4. Stop the incredible growth in spending. 5. Start the process of true entitlement reform. You have to remember that the intellectual concept behind lower taxes is that there is an optimal level of taxation, and what that changes in marginal tax rates has a direct bearing on how investors analyze potential investments. The Laffer Curve doesn't mean that lower taxes are ALWAYS best, just that there is such a thing as too high a tax rate that can keep entrepreneurs from making investments if they think the return on their money will be too low because the tax consequences of investment income kicks them into a tax bracket that is too expensive to warrant the investment to begin with.

70 I'm glad to see Perry supporters here.  I like Perry myself and hope he'll be the nominee.  But if support is going to arise or evaporate based on some debate performances, we are all screwed, big time, and not in the nice way.

I wish the focus was on the quality of ideas, and not on television performance.  But then, I wish I had a million dollars, too.  I have a feeling my second wish is more likely.

71 I'm waiting for Barack Obama to claim not to have written 'Dreams From My Father'.

Posted by: JEM

That's nothing. I am waiting for him to fess up for initiating Fast n Furious.

72 21 i'm sending perry some money today
----
I sent him some more last week. 

I have a serious question.  It's looking like, owing to the vagaries of primary system here in Utah, I won't be able to vote for Perry in the primary.  They have a caucus system that I'm told is dominated by Paulbots which will probably produce at "best" a Romney vs Paul ballot or possibly just a Romney ballot. 

So do I try to go to Nevada or Colorado or some neighboring state and try to work for Perry there? 

I confess that I'm kind of opposed to people working in other states and, frankly, even to donating to candidates outside your own state.  It just seems to run counter to the intent of our election process.  And, frankly, I'm not sure how I'd respond if some out-of-stater came up to me and lobbied for their candidate, so I don't relish the idea of being that person.

But maybe I should consider it.

Have any of you ever done that... gone out of state to canvas?

73

My point about his conservatism isn't whether it is sufficient or not - I just don't get why people think he's somehow the very personification of Mr. Conservative, the Second Coming of Barry Goldwater. He's not.

 

He's has the best conservative stance of any of the current crop of candidates. I'd much rather have a less articulate president whose heart is in the right place than another Slick Willie or SCOAMF with his TOTUS. We need to start focusing on the issues, not the personas.

By the way, you can't be an inarticulate pilot. Clarity of communication is one of the job requirements. Perry's poor debate performances are pretty much history now. He's been doing much better lately. Don't buy into the MFM narrative that's he's another Bush, and therefore somehow a dunce. It's the same game the Leftarted Media's been playing ever since Ronaldus Magnus.

It's pure bullshit.

74 Drew, I would counter that Newt has plainly mastered the details of inside-DC wonkery-- and drawn almost all the wrong conclusions about those details.

75 When you listen to him talk about it it comes down to three lame talking points all the time: It won't be there for younger workers, it's a Ponzi scheme and workers in Galveston went with a private system.

So, by "lame talking points" you mean: "facts."

He doesn't have to be a master of the policy itself (which is good, since no President can be master of all facets of policy), but he does understand that: Social Security is not going to exist for younger workers, it's a Ponzi scheme (or would be if the Government hadn't enacted it), and workers in Galveston DID go with a private system which is providing them better returns than SS.

Really, what else besides "Here's the problem, here's why, and here's a proven solution to fix it," does the President need to know?

76

Gingrich's divorce papers released. Man, it's something how they can find every piece of paper on a Republican but Jack squat on Obama.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 27, 2011 10:48 AM (9hSKh)

Yeah, isn't is something? And think about it this way...if the State Media hadn't forced the disclosure of Jack Ryan's divorce papers Obama would still be voting present in the IL State Senate.

77 I have been for Rick Perry from day one and I'm not backing off of it, folks this is OUR guy and I will berate y'all if we don't elect this man.

78 So the establishment gets McCainin 08, Romney in 12, who are they going to put forward in 16 Jeb fucking Bush?

Third Times a Charm, Mr Pink !!

79 I give up. This country isn't good enough for Rick Perry. I'm moving to my fantasy country, the United States of Sane People.

80 Sorry about the mangled syntax; I just finished up a deeply frustrating phone conversation with friends we're gonna go hiking with. Frustrating because the guy can be a total control freak, just TOTAL, GGRRRRRR. Let me share a hint with you all: if a friend of yours makes three different suggestions about where to meet up because he thinks he may not be able to find the ultimate destination himself, don't keep fucking tell him that how fucking easy it is and insist he try to find it himself, OK, assholes??? Ummm.... OK, you guys aren't the assholes...

81 32 i would never invite paul to dinner.......i would never let paul around my kids.....

Yeah. 

Then again, I wouldn't let Mitt near my dog. 

82 I despise Gingrich for what he did as Speaker of the House and it pains me to say something in his favor, but here goes.  Willard would be a steady and consistent RINO, Newt, as we have already seen, would be all over the place.  Newt is a steaming plate of shit with a little slice of red meat.  Mitt is a bowl of gruel.

83

I confess that I'm kind of opposed to people working in other states and, frankly, even to donating to candidates outside your own state.  It just seems to run counter to the intent of our election process.  And, frankly, I'm not sure how I'd respond if some out-of-stater came up to me and lobbied for their candidate, so I don't relish the idea of being that person.

But maybe I should consider it.

I think there's a big difference between doing that for a Presidential candidate since the President is President of the entire country.  Oh, hey, maybe someone should tell Obama that, no, really, you do represent those bitter clingers too. 

If you go out of state for, say, a Senate campaign, that's a bit odd.  But to go to a different state for President doesn't have them same what are you doing here aspect of it.  YMMV. 

Speaking of jarts, there's an idea for a candidate selection system.  They stand there, we throw jarts at them, whomever is left standing wins!  Tell me how it's worse than now. 

84 Things I would expect Romney to do would include:

Why?  What, in his record, suggests he would do any of those things?

The Rick Perry that is actually running isn't as impressive as the version I keep hearing about from Ace and the guys at Red State.

So we've found the one politician in America whose record is better than his rhetoric?  What's not to like?

85 This R season is evolving with each passing day.

I am flip flopping like eff'n John Kerry.

86

My 2012 prediction:

2012 Election called due to apathy.  Voters, not seeing a damn bit of difference between any of the idiots running for office, decided to stay home.  Obama turned the US into an islamic socialist state which self-destructed within 24 hours of his telemprompted announcement.

 

87 i'll go with substance over style EVERY FUCKING TIME

88

Frustrating because the guy can be a total control freak, just TOTAL, GGRRRRRR.

You want I should stompy?

89 Posted by: ace at December 27, 2011 11:02 AM (nj1bB)

I'm not saying there's a good option here. I'm just not particularly fond of voting for a guy and hoping he some how gets up to speed later.

Everything about Perry's campaign (and his persona during it) has the feel of being made up on the fly and being an inch deep.

90 I wish the focus was on the quality of ideas, and not on television performance. Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 27, 2011 11:01 AM (DuH+r) You know, that's a wonderfully pat thing to say, but what you are blithely ignoring is the importance of Leadership Skills. A President MUST be a good leader. Many people have taken a shot at defining what is Good Leadership, but they all seem to agree that Effective Communication is key.

91 Everything about Perry's campaign (and his persona during it) has the feel of being made up on the fly and being an inch deep. Can you give some examples, Drew? I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

92 Perry always had a rep here in TX as Governor Goodhair, the competent politician but not exactly much else. He has done nothing to dispel that yet.

93 88 Frustrating because the guy can be a total control freak, just TOTAL, GGRRRRRR. You want I should stompy? Posted by: alexthechick at December 27, 2011 11:07 AM (VtjlW) You would be a dear if you did!

94 Perry is the only one that makes sense, I can't believe the BS reasons for not voting for him I will even if I write it in.

95 Yeah.

Then again, I wouldn't let Mitt near my dog.

Posted by: Y-not at December 27, 2011 11:04 AM (5H6zj)

I wouldn't let Rick Perry near my pups!

96 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 11:02 AM (8y9MW)

I'm not saying the guy has to be or should be Paul Ryan in his wonkery but he has to demonstrate an understanding of big issues deeper than your average radio talk show host.

Don't forget Perry supposedly wrote a book about this stuff. Now I know politicians don't usually write their own stuff but as someone joked to me about Perry, "it's pretty clear that not only didn't he write Fed Up, he doesn't seem to have even read it".

97 Romney in 2011: I agree 100% with Romneycare.

98 So, how is voting for Romney or Gingrich not the same as voting for Obama?  We need another revolt within the ranks.

99 I just don't understand people who decide they are not going to vote for a candidate because of what they perceive as a personal slight. And don't tell Moe it's a proxy for policy, because Perry's views on immigration are a dang bit better than any of the other serious candidates

100

Perry always had a rep here in TX as Governor Goodhair, the competent politician but not exactly much else. He has done nothing to dispel that yet.

 

Wouldn't that be a serious upgrade from what we're currently being forced to endure from the SCOAMF and his Band of Merry Marxists?

101 #84 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

102 And I still say any one of the Repubs would be better than that POS in the White House we have now. Including Paul or Huntsman, neither of whom has a shot at the nomination.

103 Anyone who decries Perry on immigration and then turns around and supports Mutt or Newt is (1) being disingenuous or (2) stupid

Anyone who supports RP is either (1) a doper looking to legalize weed or (2) Crazy

Posted by: Vic at December 27, 2011 11:00 AM (YdQQY)

So why not Santorum then?

Romney - political moderate - elect him and Obama/Romneycare is here to stay

Newt - consummate insider who has taken any number of leftwing positions since leaving the House. 

Perry - Shaky on Shamnesty, made a number of mistakes on the campaign trail

Bachmann - Solid issuewise but has run a disqualifying campaign

Ron Paul - Crazy. And a cretin

Santorum - Solid issuewise and ???

Overall if we don't nominate a conservative with fire in his/her belly there is *no* point. We can't wait until 2020 to get a leader that will rollback Leviathan. 

Perry certainly seems better then Newt McRomney, but is he really less likely to get elected then Santorum, a guy who got elected in a Blue State before the bloodbath of '06?

104 Ace, Obama is beating Perry by 13 points in the RCP average. 13 points. That's about the same as Palin was polling vs. Obama just before she announced she wasn't running.  Wasn't electability the primary reason you supported Castle over O'Donnell (which I agreed with)?  It's going to be harder for you to make that electability argument in the future, when- in a presidential race, with far higher stakes than a single Senate contest- you spent months pushing a guy who polled only a handful of points better vs. Obama than O'Donnell did vs. Coons. 

105 Don't forget Perry supposedly wrote a book about this stuff. Now I know politicians don't usually write their own stuff but as someone joked to me about Perry, "it's pretty clear that not only didn't he write Fed Up, he doesn't seem to have even read it". Not to mention, don't make major foreign policy decisions in the middle of an interview, lik"absolutely" commit yourself to a No Fly Zone over Syria just because you need to say something to some reporter.

106 Dammit. Our candidates suck maggot ass.

107 but he has to demonstrate an understanding of big issues deeper than your average radio talk show host.

And how has he not?  You've been asked for specific examples twice on this thread alone, Drew.

As I said, with SS, he HAS demonstrated as much mastery over the subject as anyone other than a pure wonk is going to have: It's broken, it's fundamentally a wealth-transfer operation, private options work better.  How much more mastery of the issue do you want from him?  Do you really think the issues facing us are that difficult?  Because they're not.

108 Posted by: Joffen at December 27, 2011 11:08 AM (zLeKL)

I can't give a single example that fairly demonstrates it. I could give you a lot of stuff from the debates but people tend to pooh-pooh those. It's simply the overall judgement I've formed after watching him debate, do interviews and the campaign Q and As I've seen him do.

109 A typical year in this country features three or four weather disasters whose costs exceed $1 billion each. But this year, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has tallied a dozen such events, including wildfires in the Southwest, floods in multiple regions of the country and a deadly spring tornado season. And the agency has not finished counting. The final costs are certain to exceed $50 billion.

The article does not explain that $1 billion in 2011 is about the same as $400 million in 1980. Nor does it explain that a $50 billion total in losses for 2011 is about exactly the same as the total in 1980, after adjusting for inflation -- however, as a proportion of the overall economy those 1980 losses were 250% larger than those experienced in 2011.

110 I don't care about Perry naysayers I'm voting for him it's my vote and I think many will follow my lead.

111 I can't give a single example that fairly demonstrates it. I could give you a lot of stuff from the debates but people tend to pooh-pooh those. It's simply the overall judgement I've formed after watching him debate, do interviews and the campaign Q and As I've seen him do. You've made specific claims that Perry has demonstrated a lack of understanding. Be specific.

112 As I said, with SS, he HAS demonstrated as much mastery over the subject as anyone other than a pure wonk is going to have:
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 11:14 AM (8y9MW)

No, he's demonstrated it to YOUR satisfaction. That's fine for you, I remain unconvinced.

113 @110: Mister Blutarsky, HAS no GPA, but nevertheless goes FTW!

114 BARACK HUSSIEN OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!.... US retailer Sears said Tuesday it would close 100 to 120 of its Sears and Kmart stores and warned fourth-quarter earnings before charges would drop by at least half to $466 million due to lower sales and margins. Given our performance and the difficult economic environment, especially for big-ticket items, we intend to implement a series of actions to reduce on-going expenses, adjust our asset base, and accelerate the transformation of our business model," chief executive Lou D'Ambrosio said in a statement.................................... OH YEA BABY....FOUR MORE YEARS...MMM...MMM...MMM !!

115 Drew with all due respect, you are full of shit and I'm sure you've been told that before.

116 Oh, and another point.

In 2008 the Democrats were choosing between hard left Clinton and hard left Obama. In 2004 hard left Dean and hard left Kerry. In 2000 hard left Bill Bradley and emerging hard left Al Gore.

In that time we've had exactly one solid conservative in contention  - The Fred - and he never rose out of the second tier.

What the hell?!?

117 No, he's demonstrated it to YOUR satisfaction. That's fine for you, I remain unconvinced. What has he said that shows an unsatisfactory mastery of SSN? Are you just being emotional about it?

118

Romney's kind of dick and seems to have little sense of people, nevermind conservatives, but on paper he's... well he's something. Not sure what.

 

I think the word you're looking for is "Democrat," Ace.

119 No, he's demonstrated it to YOUR satisfaction. That's fine for you, I remain unconvinced.

Fine.  Tell me why.  You sound like a 13 year old arguing.  "Well he hasn't."  Okay, what would it take to show sufficient mastery?  Should he be able to explain the formula by which the Government calculates SS payments?  Should he be able to explain the entire Austrian School of Economics?  What would be enough?

120 You've made specific claims that Perry has demonstrated a lack of understanding. Be specific. Posted by: Joffen at December 27, 2011 11:17 AM (zLeKL) OK... on the fly he committed himself to having America enforce a No Fly Zone over Syria. How would that work? If Assad is toppled, who would take over? Would Iran then have uninterrupted rule thru Obama-abandoned Iraq thru Syria to Lebanon, right up to Israel's borders? I doubt Perry thought about ANY of that when he opened his mouth.

121

Perry did quite well in the last 5 debates. .....Yet this is being ignored.

Perry has made hundreds of stump speeches and given good interviews. .....These are being ignored too.

Perry has put out a lot of good Ads. .....Only a couple have been on TV, so a lot of people are unaware of them all.

Perry is being ignored so well by the media, that Romney apparently thinks that no one will notice that he is now copying Perry's phrases and verbage. .....Romney's latest Ad is so much like a Perry Ad, you could insert Perry into it and it would be a repeat of his previous ones. .....There is even footage of Romney & wife walking in a field!

Gak.....I am still rooting for Perry.

122 Doesn't 100% coverage really mean approximately 106% coverage, if you include all of the illegal aliens suckling at the teat of Lady Liberty?

123 The flood of Perrykrishna tears is magnificent. And he hasn't even dropped out yet.

124 Perry will get these douchebags off of free money I promise.

125 You've made specific claims that Perry has demonstrated a lack of understanding. Be specific.
Posted by: Joffen at December 27, 2011 11:17 AM (zLeKL)

No, here's what I claimed...

"...you better be able to convince people you know what you are talking about and have a reasonable plan to replace/fix it.

He simply doesn't sound authoritative on that or issue after issue."

I laid out how he relies on talking points over and over again and simply doesn't go into anything more sophisticated. How exactly would you like me to quote him when he doesn't say anything? The lack of quotable statements IS the problem.

Perhaps you and other Perry supporters would be better served proving me wrong and trying to convince others that in fact Perry is as good as you claim.

You guys are simply demanding I defend my position but it's the job of the candidate to demonstrate their suitability not that of a voter to defend their unwillingness to support them.

126

brb stomping  annnnnd back 

84 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

Fine, point to Romney.  No snark, that's a point in Romney favor. 

I do not get why Santorum is doing so badly.  While he wouldn't be my first choice, he's not awful. 

127 This is why Perry needs to be the nominee.

I just cant figure out Christie, the brass ring is just sitting there waiting for him to take it.

128 @73
I think Perry was beautifully articulate when he was talking about the military, why he served, etc, in that video piece he did for Veterans Day. 

In general at speeches he starts slowly, particularly when he's doing the "small talk" introductory remarks, but he warms up quickly and does especially well when he's talking about something he feel passionately about (military, Israel, energy, regulation...). 

It'll be interesting to see to what extent the second to last debate, which was the most-watched one and the one he did very well in, influences the average voter. 

129 At least Santorum can shoot pheasant that's VP material there.

130 America is a retard and wants a sparkly bright shiny in 2012.

Bright/Shiny 2012

131 Drew with all due respect, you are full of shit and I'm sure you've been told that before.
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 27, 2011 11:17 AM (4HrTB)

Not agreeing with you and your personal conclusion means I'm full of shit.

I really fucking hate political fanbois.  You're so committed to your choice that it's simply inconceivable that anyone of any good will could honestly reach a different conclusion than you have.

132 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 11:19 AM (8y9MW)

See my number 125 and 131

133 but on paper he's... well he's something. Not sure what.

 Posted by: Ace at 10:37 AM

He's a rectal fissure. But he's OUR rectal fissure.

134 America is a retard and wants a sparkly bright shiny in 2012.

Bright/Shiny 2012

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at December 27, 2011 11:24 AM (Qxdfp)

MATT DAMON. Barack Obama. MATT DAMON. MATT DAMON!!!

135 127 I just cant figure out Christie, the brass ring is just sitting there waiting for him to take it.

Because it won't even fit his pinky finger.

136 You guys are simply demanding I defend my position but it's the job of the candidate to demonstrate their suitability not that of a voter to defend their unwillingness to support them.

Ahhh... Poor Drew made a statement and is being asked to back it up.

Dude, nut up and give an example or STFU.

You have stated unequivocally that your impression of Perry is that he hasn't mastered enough policy positions to get your support.  We have provided at least one example where we believe he has shown sufficient policy chops (a specific example you brought up), and then we have asked you to explain why that doesn't live up to your standards.

So, no, the ball is back in your court.  Explain why Perry's policy statements about SS are not sufficient, or find something else where he hasn't shown enough knowledge.

While he wouldn't be my first choice, he's not awful. 

He's about as far from a Federalist as you can find.  I'd still probably take him over Luap Nor, Mittens, or Newt, but he falls behind Perry, and probably Bachmann.

137 so by not vetoing it.....he championed it? interesting....

138 I don't like to trash out our candidates, but CNN has Newt's first divorce file and a really ugly article about how he treated his first wife. I'd have a very hard time voting for a guy who treated his wives like this. He'd have to be a ZombieReagan/John Connor combo to make me overlook this.

139 Yes, as I said, I said the no-fly zone is one of the options that we have. But I think you need to leave it on the table to make sure, because this is not just about Syria. This is about Iran, and those two, as a partnership and exporting terrorism around the world. And if we're going to be serious about saving Israel, we better get serious about Syria and Iran, and we better get serious right now. Emphasis mine. I think this demonstrates that Perry has a good handle on this issue. He hasn't 'fully committed' to a no-fly zone, he says it's an option. Is there something wrong with candidates being specific?

140 129 At least Santorum can shoot pheasant that's VP material there.

No, that would be his best friend.

141 I'd have a very hard time voting for a guy who treated his wives like this. He'd have to be a ZombieReagan/John Connor combo to make me overlook this.

Posted by: stace at December 27, 2011 11:26 AM (ybnS

Yeah, I'm going to say no on the Newt as Reagan thing.

142
I think Perry needs to tighten up his position on illegals.

The funny thing: he is attacked for the position held by the democratic media.

143 4 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

Fine, point to Romney.  No snark, that's a point in Romney favor. 

No support for paying in-State tuition is NOTHING compared to support for amnesty which the 2006 Romney supported. Newt also supported it then and still supports it now.

144 131,

You have a lot to learn Drew, and you are very wrong about Perry he is the one that will bring this country back he pulled the sword from the stone.

145 101 #84 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

How did he champion the cause?  He signed a bill that was in the works when he took office.

But, yes, he supports it.  As do the vast majority of Texans.

Could it be that Texas' economy, tax system, and higher education system are so robust that they can afford to give in-state tuition to Mexicans (and Sooners)?  I will gladly stack up Perry's record on higher education against Romney's.  Tuition is much lower in Texas and the schools are much better. 

146 Shorter AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney: I don't accept or agree with your argument, therefore you haven't made one.

I am in no way saying you have to agree with my conclusion about Perry but you keep insisting I accept yours. I don't. You'll just have to try and live with that.

147 Drew, I'm assuming you've seen Perry's debates and know a bit about what he'd do as President. That's why it would be easier for everyone if you gave a specific example of where Perry falls short. Otherwise we have to guess. I have no idea what part of Perry's record you like (if anything) so, if you could give a specific example of something that you don't like, that would help this conversation. Oh, and I see War is being a cocksucker as usual. FOAD.

148 As for Santorum, I said way back in the beginning that he had a solid conservative record and I wondered why he could never get any traction.

I have seen a lot of reasons given by varying people but nothing that leads me to thinking that Newt or Mutt would be better than him.

149

Santorum - Solid issuewise and ???

And as likeable as Jon Hunstman with a paper cut.  No.

150 Romney's kind of dick and seems to have little sense of people, nevermind conservatives, but on paper he's... well he's something. Not sure what.

On paper he's a one-term governor of a state he won't carry. 

151 By the time I get to vote in PA Romney will have the nomination sewn up.

I will never vote for Romney, as in not ever.

152

It'll be interesting to see to what extent the second to last debate, which was the most-watched one and the one he did very well in, influences the average voter. 

 

The FL primary is in a couple of weeks. I really hope Perry's still on the ballot here. If not, I might just write him in anyway. Things will start getting interesting very soon. I'm willing to let anyone win in Iowa and NH, given that those winners hardly ever go on to become the eventual nominee.

I just hope Perry has something up his sleeve for FL, something that'll put him squarely out in front and propel him to the Presidency. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

153 Go Perry Go!

154 So Newt is using the Ron Paul defense now? (Shaggy) But I wrote in an op-ed It wasn't me. Put it out in my newsletter It wasn't me Signed it with my own signature It wasn't me I even said it on camera

155 Perry will be the write in nominee.

156 but you keep insisting I accept yours. I don't

No I don't.  I'm asking for supporting evidence for yours.  I showed you mine, now show me yours.  That's it.  I can't decide if I can accept yours as legitimate without evidence.

So far you're saying, "He hasn't convinced me."  I believe what you really believe is "He can't convince me."  And you're certainly entitled to that position, but be honest about it.  If you CAN be convinced, give some specific examples where you think he's weak.  I'm sure I and the other Perrykrishnas will be more than happy to answer your objections if we can.

And we'll be honest enough to admit when we can't, unlike the supporters of at least two other candidates.

157

He's about as far from a Federalist as you can find.  I'd still probably take him over Luap Nor, Mittens, or Newt, but he falls behind Perry, and probably Bachmann.

Santorum wouldn't be my first choice either though I think I would put him ahead of Bachmann.  I will admit to being a tiny bit biased since friend of a friend worked for him and had nothing but good things to say about Santorum as a boss.  That's very rare for any boss, let alone a politician. 

158 Perry has put out a lot of good Ads. .....Only a couple have been on TV, so a lot of people are unaware of them all.

One good thing is that they must be playing on Fox - or perhaps covered on Fox.  My dad has seen them (he's in MD so I doubt they are playing locally).  He was leaning Newt but is starting to cast about again, so I'm going to print out the best stuff from the web and send it to him.

My dad will vote ABO (except Paul) in November, but he seems to be AB-Romney in the primary.  He really dislikes Mitt which surprises me 'cause my dad is from MA, lives in MD, and loves Chris Christie.  But he said Christie's endorsement of Mitt really disappointed him. 

159

And as likeable as Jon Hunstman with a paper cut.  No.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 27, 2011 11:30 AM (B+qrE)

So likeability is more important then his stance on the issues? And once the State Media gets an individual target they will reduce any candidate's likeability...

Romney - evil 1%er

Newt - Misogynistic, corrupt, evil 1%er

Perry - Bush II: The Dumberer Gooder Old Boy

etc. But IMO the election will be a referendum on Obama...

160 since romney is softer on immigration than perry......romney supporters don't care about the immigration issue......

161 Santorum wouldn't be my first choice either though I think I would put him ahead of Bachmann

I'm iffy on where he falls compared to Bachmann myself.

I think the 10th Amendment is a major issue (I know, shocking revelation there) and so someone who is passively (if not actively) hostile to the 10th Amendment has some huge hurdles to overcome before he gets my support.

162 You're so committed to your choice that it's simply inconceivable that anyone of any good will could honestly reach a different conclusion than you have.
Posted by: DrewM.

Thank God for your existence, Drew. I'm not sure we would be alive without your guiding touch and wise words. Without them I'm pretty sure we all would have ingested scissors by now.

163 Posted by: stace at December 27, 2011 11:26 AM (ybnS

By all means! Let's trust CNN to do a fair analysis of Newt's divorce decree. And let's allow them to interpret his behavior during and after that divorce, because they have demonstrated on countless occasions that they uphold the finest standards of journalistic integrity.

164 #143 You keep saying Romney supported amnesty and that is intellectually dishonest at the least.

165

Beck got bashed ad nauseum for reporting this stuff on Newt (from Day One, with print, video and audio proof) but when it comes from other sources, the collective is okay with it.  Go figure.

166 I'll bet Perry won't spend $4 million on vacay, he'll just wander off to Texas for relaxation if it's a slow work week. If something is pressing he'll stay in DC.

167 At least when I criticize Mitt or Newt I give actual examples so people know where I'm coming from. I'm not here saying, "well, I don't think Mitt knows very much" or "I think Newt is very smart on economics." If I did, I would show some evidence supporting my claim. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT WORKS!!

168 You keep saying Romney supported amnesty and that is intellectually dishonest at the least.

No, it has been proven over and over again. You're still stuck in that river in Egypt.

169
You people talk about candidates like they're your favorite QB of your favorite football.

This isn't football. This is politics. And politics is all about popularity in the polls and political prowess.

You're not going to wish your candidate to victory. And you're not going to wish away candidates you don't like. Get a grip on reality and pay attention to the political maneuvering.

Or continue to be cheerleaders for your shitty candidates. 

170 I meant: "I don't think Newt...."

171 Oh, and I see War is being a cocksucker as usual. FOAD.

Your tears are the sweetest of all, Joffen.  There's something about the anger of self-righteous emotional fanboi twats that just.... electrifies the palate.

Don't worry.  You'll get used to the idea of Mitt Romney.  But if primary losses really are this traumatic for you, you could always go back to Canada.

172 No I don't.  I'm asking for supporting evidence for yours.  I showed you mine, now show me yours.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 11:33 AM (8y9MW)

I have. I've told you in the SS example all I've ever seen him say. How can I show you all the things he hasn't said? Maybe I've missed them but I can only go but what I've seen him say, right?

You've told me a couple of times the talking points I quoted are enough. Well, that's the case for you. Fine. It's not for me (or apparently, if one is to go by polls, a lot of other conservatives)


So far you're saying, "He hasn't convinced me."  I believe what you really believe is "He can't convince me."  And you're certainly entitled to that position, but be honest about it.  If you CAN be convinced, give some specific examples where you think he's weak.  I'm sure I and the other Perrykrishnas will be more than happy to answer your objections if we can.

That's the thing....I don't want you or Ace or Dan McLaughlin to convince me. With all due respect, you aren't running, Perry is. I need to be convinced by Perry.

I said it in my comments here and other times, the Rick Perry I hear about from his supporters is awesome. It's just when I see and hear the actual Rick Perry it doesn't match the praise I see from his supporters.

Perry is the guy on the ballot, Perry is the guy who needs to seal the deal.

173 Why are there Ron Paul ads running at the top of the HQ this morning?

174 ElBaradei: U.S., Egypt in secret talks on fate of Israel peace treaty Remark by top Egyptian opposition leader and former IAEA chief comes following significant gains by Islamist parties in countryÂ’s recent parliamentary vote. The United States is engaged in secret talks with EgyptÂ’s ruling military council geared at ensuring that the countryÂ’s democratically elected regime will maintain its peace treaty with Israel, top Egyptian opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradei said on Tuesday. Is Israel being consulted? What is this Munich?

175

Gingrich is, IMO, a statist.  He LIKES Government solutions, so why should this suprise anyone?

He just wants to be the one using the Government to control us, not that other group of statists.

176 if elected, either Newt Romney and Mitt Gingrich would be nothing more than SCOAMF Lite...

Perry for President 2012

177 This isn't football. This is politics. And politics is all about popularity in the polls and political prowess.
---
I'm curious why we should bother voting if polls are all that matter.  Particularly when the polls being cited are of next year's general before any of the candidates (with the possible exception of Newt who was a prominent national politician) have had their general election anal probes courtesy of the media.
---
You're not going to wish your candidate to victory.
---
No, we're going to support (via donations, work, and votes) our candidate to victory. 

178 That's the thing....I don't want you or Ace or Dan McLaughlin to convince me. With all due respect, you aren't running, Perry is. I need to be convinced by Perry. I figure that's why we're on blogs like this, to discuss the candidates. Isn't that why we're here?

179 "100 bucks says if we nominate Romney and lose again like in 08 the party elite will try yet again in 16 to shove a moderate liberal down everyone's throat expecting a different result."

Wait. Don't tell me, I know this. Uh, uh . . . . what is the definition of Inanity?

No. No. That's close. that's not it though.  OH MAN.  I KNOW this!

Uh . . . .  OH. -- What's the definition of insanity Alex.

180

Romney reminds me of AlGore......that same insufferable attitude of being 'entitled' to be the president, because it's his turn.

I still don't understand how his father, George Romney, got so close to being the R-nominee in 1980.......when he was born in Mexico. .....How did that not come up? 

181 War: Enjoy your Romneycare. Douche.

182
Another thing. Maybe it makes you feel good to say Obama sucks and Obama is stupid and everybody hates Obama, but it's not gonna change the facts.

Obama is the best campaigner that we know of. And lots of people either like the job Obama is doing or think he's not doing too badly.

We'll be lucky to beat Obama in 2012 with anybody as the GOP candidate.

183 Is Israel being consulted?

Of course not, but look for Israel to be pressured by the US towards accepting any unilateral changes the Egyptians want to make to the 1979 Peace Treaty after the negotiations are though. 

184

Posted by: notropis at December 27, 2011 10:48 AM (cjcCc)

 

if you really believe that, than it shows you are just buying into the media's narrative. perry has had some tongue tied moments in debates but in speeches and interviews he is very articulate and well-spoken. but even so, bush was never hurt by his gaffes and he far outpaces perry in that regard. if you want to keep searching for the candidate who looks and sounds presidential well keep on looking. but if you want a candidate who has substance and experience and has actually governed conservatively you need to support perry.

185

thic country doesn't deserve Rick Perry

Perry pulled the sword from the stone

 

I award these statements 8/10 Palins on the Fanboi Scale.

186 To say we are fucked is taking the easy way out, kind of like suicide we better get our shit together or we will lose this country if odumbass is re-elected and right now IMO Perry is our chance to turn things back to getting this country in the red again.

187
popularity at the election polls, that is.

a.k.a. the ballot box

188

Beck got bashed ad nauseum for reporting this stuff on Newt (from Day One, with print, video and audio proof) but when it comes from other sources, the collective is okay with it. 

Beck lost me when he called Newt supporters racist.

Well, in truth he lost me before that, but it sure didn't help.

189 "if elected, either Newt Romney and Mitt Gingrich would be nothing more than SCOAMF Lite..."

That would be SCOAMF^(R).

190 Romney reminds me of AlGore......that same insufferable attitude of being 'entitled' to be the president, because it's his turn.

My husband, who avoids political discussions and programming as much as is humanly possible, said Romney reminds him of Kerry. 

He will not vote for Romney.  I'm not sure if I would even be able to make him vote for Romney in the general should it come to that. 

191 I meant red as in Conservatism.

192 Obama to ask for debt ceiling hike.

193 Still magically hoping for a Perry miracle.

194 I award these statements 8/10 Palins on the Fanboi Scale. --- LMAO

195 How can I show you all the things he hasn't said?

Ummm... by stating what you'd like him to say?  Saying what part of the policy he hasn't addressed?  Pointing out why you believe his statements don't rise above mere "talking points?" 

Sort of like with Romney- I stated early on that I was prepared (at the time, that window has now closed) to forgive Romney for RomneyCare if he would just have admitted that it was a mistake and that it shouldn't be repeated.  He still hasn't done that.

So tell me the kinds of things you think someone with enough of a handle on SS would be saying that Perry isn't saying.

I need to be convinced by Perry.

Then you're going to be sorely disappointed, because I doubt Rick Perry even knows who you are.  He's certainly not going to have a sit down with you and explain his deepest, most wonkish thoughts on Social Security.  He's going to continue to make true statements about it (again: It won't exist for younger workers, it's a Ponzi scheme, and private plans work) and say that he'll work to implement a plan that works.

Now- I understand you don't think that's enough- but what would be?  What more can really be said about it?

196 #168 you haven't proved anything. Romney explicitly refused to endorse the reform bill of 2005 and objected strongly to the 2007 version because of changes like the Z visas.

197

Even if Perry suddenly learned how to speak and everyone studied his record and found him wonderful, I have no doubt that some story of him molesting a young girl, boy or poodle would surface.  Based on ObamaÂ’s record of destroying competitors with dirt from the past makes this a certainty.

This is why some people advocated for hyper-vetted candidates, but no one listened.

198 Hmmm getting a weird thing where my name is getting a mtcmtmail tacked on the end and the email box is cleared after I post a comment.

This is a test.

199 This is why some people advocated for hyper-vetted candidates, but no one listened.
-----
Who is hyper-vetted out of the current group of candidates? 

200 Posted by: Joffen at December 27, 2011 11:44 AM (zLeKL)

Discuss sure but ultimately we're going to have to make judgements based on what we see from the candidates.

I think the time to be swayed by supporters is earlier in the process when people are jockeying for early status. Now we've seen this folks for months, sometimes a year or more. When push comes to shove, candidate rise or fall on their own performance, not what anyone else says about them.

People who read and comment on blogs (the latter is a subset of the former) are pretty high information voters. I think we're less likely to be swayed by others (even if the other is a high information voter as well) simply because we tend to care about this and do our own research before reaching a conclusion. It's harder to move people like us than less politically active people because we put effort into our conclusions and are less swayed by passing fads. 

201

Some on here are so focused on the election, that they are forgeting why we HAVE those elections.

Its not for one 'team' to gain power... it not to bitch slap a SCOAMF... its to FIX things...

I don't see Romney, or Newt, having the fire needed to actualy make the changes we need....

We need a Cincinatus, who will give power back to the Republic... we need a G. Washington, who will relinquish power.... I don't see EITHER of those candidates doing a dam thing to limit Washinton Power.

They just want to head up the current system... not CHANGE the system back to the way it used to be.

202 Perry is my only candidate for the primary and has been since he got in the race. I'll vote ABO in the general, but I won't donate to Newt Romney.

203

Woah, that's hilarious.  Ha ha ha, you really got me.

OK, Newt, Mitt, you can stop trolling now, I finally figured out your joke.  You really had me going there, you guys crack me up.

 

But now the joke's over, please let me know who the real candidates are.

 

P.S. Perry, you in on it too?  Your total campaign incompetence was just kidding around, right?  Right?

 

Oh, dear God.

204 202,

You are invited to my bbq.

205

jwest at December 27, 2011 11:48 AM (8moZm)

 

there is no one vetted enough that the MFM wont be able to find dirt on. we need to stop worrying about what the media will or will not do and run the best candidate we have.

206

191....He will not vote for Romney. I'm not sure if I would even be able to make him vote for Romney in the general should it come to that.

My husband is the same, Y-not. .....Especially after this latest skullduggery in Virginia. He is pissed......and he doesn't like to talk about politics much at all.

The big flaw in the much-repeated-meme of 'Anyone could beat Obama', is that it ignores the outrage that many voters are starting to feel over having Romney forced upon us.

207 The jig is up ... whether we like it or not, it's going to be Romney from our side. 

We may as well just lie back and think of England Reagan.

208 I will not commit to voting ABO until I see how our nominee runs in the general. 

209 Ace, MAKE IT STOP. STOP turning every editorial into a whine for Perry. Your editorials are becoming as bad as listening to a Perry debate. While I've reluctantly concluded that Perry has the best record among Newt, Romney and Perry, Perry will get slaughtered by Obama in the general election. The man is completely unprepared to run a national campaign. That's why his approval ratings are in toilet. His record isn't so bad, but he's just not ready for Prime Time.

210 181 War: Enjoy your Romneycare. Douche.
Posted by: Joffen at December 27, 2011 11:44 AM (zLeKL)

The little Children's Crusade you and the other Perrykrishnas have been running over the last few months has been cute, Joffen, it really has.  The idea that you thought you could propel a functional retard into the nomination by acting like a bunch of confrontational dicks to supporters of other candidates on Intartubez blogs had a certain charm to it.  But the year is over and the real deal is beginning, and your guy has proven as to be fantastically incapable of playing on this field as you and your comrades have been in making the case for him.

So, I'm just going to sit back with some popcorn and watch and enjoy the epic cascading disappointment you keyboard-warrior jerks have had coming to you for a long time.

211 I will not commit to voting ABO until I see how our nominee runs in the general.

I'm committed to !Obama in the General, but I can do that just as well by not voting on the Presidential line, and only filling in all the other races.

That said, I'm virtually certain even RINO Romney would be at least marginally better than the SCOAMF.

212 I will admit to being a Perry fan but, Texas is cruising down the road at 80mph with a smooth running engine.

213 Texas is cruising down the road at 80mph with a smooth running engine.

And some really good shocks.

214 Ha ha ha, that idiot Rick Perry doesn't even have a newsletter!!LOL!!

215 Then you're going to be sorely disappointed, because I doubt Rick Perry even knows who you are.  He's certainly not going to have a sit down with you and explain his deepest, most wonkish thoughts on Social Security.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 11:47 AM (8y9MW)

Man you Donkey Punched the shit out of that straw man. You know I'm not expecting a personal sit down with the guy. I'm talking about debates, interviews and town hall Q and As. Speeches and op-ed type things play a part in it but those are canned and don't really show the person really mastered what they are saying.

Now- I understand you don't think that's enough- but what would be?  What more can really be said about it?

Ok, he points to municipal workers in Texas (I think it's Galveston) who have a private system that lets them opt-out of Social Security as a possible national model.

How would that work in a wider system? What if you changed jobs or moved to a state that didn't participate in that kind of system? Would your contributions be portable? What if you moved from a traditional system state or job to one that participated in the Galveston model? How would you continue to participate in a system that doesn't exist where you live?

216

The big flaw in the much-repeated-meme of 'Anyone could beat Obama', is that it ignores the outrage that many voters are starting to feel over having Romney forced upon us.

Yes, right up until I remember who the incumbent is.

I'm for Perry until I can't be.  I've sent money twice.  Will probably do a third time.

Paul is the only nonstarter for me and he'll be the nominee when I'm Pope.

217

BARRACK HUSSIEN OBAMA..MMMM....MMMM..MMMM !!!!US State Department (DoS) Officials are beginning to suspect that Iraq could wind up following YugoslaviaÂ’s example. As you know, there once was a country called Yugoslavia. It had several distinct provinces based on ethnic differences: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Kosovo and Serbia. You get the point. What largely held the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia together was the brutal dictatorship of Marshal Josip Broz Tito. Once he died, the country went into a series of deadly and bitter civil wars. Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 2003. It has been replaced by these other countries. As you also know, Iraq has had bitter ethnic tensions for a long time among Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. It was held together for a long time by Saddam HusseinÂ’s brutal dictatorship. For the almost nine years since SaddamÂ’s removal, it has been held together by a huge U.S. military presence. But with U.S. troops now out of the country, DoS suspects we could be on the verge of seeing Iraq spiral into civil war. We already have seen a series of terrorist attacks in recent days. DoS fear is that this will only get worse. The Sunnis clearly donÂ’t trust the Shiites, especially Shiite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. Some of his recent actions, including an arrest warrant for the Sunni vice president, have fueled this fear of a civil war. Vice President Joe Biden has been on the phone for days with Iraqi leaders trying to calm things down. So far, he has not met with much success. It has long been Biden – more than any other top U.S. official – who has long feared the collapse of Iraq into these three groupings. OH Yea Babbbbbbbbbbbbbbby..... Definitely 40 more years of this great Messiah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

218 218,

Hi pope I saw you at the Saints game last night thanks for the benediction of Drew Brees.

219 Ok, he points to municipal workers in Texas (I think it's Galveston) who have a private system that lets them opt-out of Social Security as a possible national model.

Here we go.  Substance.

Okay, the way it works in Galveston (as I understand it, but I don't live in Galveston, and I'm certainly not a municipal worker there) is that it is truly private.  That is: it's yours.  If you stop working for the City (actually, I think it's also the County), that money can be cashed out and stuffed under a mattress, or rolled into a pretty standard IRA.

Now, if he's said that or not, I don't know.  To my mind it's implied by "private," and he may be thinking the same thing.

220 The thing I find hysterical about some of you Perrykrishnas is that you're acting as if you're winning the argument and the rest of us are just to stupid to know it.

Guys...your boy went from 30% and the lead to about 6% and is holding on to "Second tier" status out of courtesy (and what's left of his bankroll).

Perry is the like the old lady in the TV ads...he's fallen and he can't get up.

Meanwhile the Perrykrishnas are acting like the Black Knight in the Holy Grail....our crashed and burned candidate? Tis but a flesh wound!

221 Jeez, I'm only 19 comments in, and already this thread is awash in Paul idiots somehow claiming this is good for their guy. Please understand Paul stooges, we don't want him. He's a racist loon. It's just not going to happen on this planet. Go build a rocket ship and fly away, please.

222 Don't worry so much about beating Obama- the nominee will also be running against the entire national media.

223 Post-Christmas blues setting in around here? Didn't we all get enough internecine battles over Christmas dinner? Can't we all agree that the most amoral candidate will be the one who will be most capable of mounting a full-fledged attack on the SCOAMF?

224
Let's gather wisdom from twitter.

The tweets shall advise us.

225 How does Newt feel about mandate or Obama care at this point? is it to keep some of it that is liked or get rid of it altogether?

226 This election sucks.  I don't want any of these incompetent fucktards in charge, but I have to vote for the primary winner because the current occupant of the White House is competent at fucking America in the ass. 

Given what I'm seeing, I hope to God we gain control of the Senate so that we can block Obama's dipshit appointments during his second term in office. 

227 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 12:00 PM (8y9MW)

Don't take this personally but...I don't give a shit if you understand it. I want to know Perry does.

And look at your answer...."and he may be thinking the same thing." You're just filling in the blanks. That's great and all but irrelevant. You asked me to give you an example where Perry lacks details (not deep wonkish ones, just logical next questions) and you're answer is basically, "yeah, I don't know what he thinks about it".

Thanks for proving my point.

228 Newt Gingrich:  One very frightening mother fucker.

229 is it possible at all for Perry to win the nomination?

230

Barack Hussein Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

I denounce myself.

231

There was only one potential candidate that reached the hyper-vetted level, but she decided not to run after failing to get the coveted Ace endorsement.

232 Given what I'm seeing, I hope to God we gain control of the Senate so that we can block Obama's dipshit appointments during his second term in office. 

Posted by: Aaron at December 27, 2011 12:03 PM (Tlix5

hear, hear

233 Imagine what the blogosphere would have looked like back in 1884 when Chester Arthur was dropped from the ticket. Think about this--what if we beat Obama in 2012 and he comes back to run in 2016, a la Grover Cleveland.

234 is it possible at all for Perry to win the nomination? Posted by: willow at December 27, 2011 12:04 PM (h+qn NO delegates have been won or awarded to any candidates as of yet. Anything can and usually does happen. If Perry could stop tripping over his own dick every time he opens his mouth, I guess he could win.

235

Just reading some of the thread.  I guess most people here have finally figured out that none of our candidates are perfect or have all the qualities each one of us have conjured in our heads.  From my experience, it's always been like this in every election I've ever witnessed.  We never get the perfect candidate.

What bothers me this time is that we're trying to speculate who that person will be before one primary vote has been cast.  Except for RP, I'm trying to find the positive things about each candidate instead of always dwelling on the negative.

Again, except for Luap Nor(and perhaps Huntsman), any one of these people would be exponentially better than the SCOAMF.

236 231,

Yes my dear look who is in Hawaii on our dime, anything is possible hell Cuba Gooding jr. might rise out of the heap to be President one day.

237 198 Hmmm getting a weird thing where my name is getting a mtcmtmail tacked on the end and the email box is cleared after I post a comment. -------- That sort of stuff usually happens if you use quotes in your sockpuppet name. It confuses the gerbils.

238 Yes my dear look who is in Hawaii on our dime, anything is possible hell Cuba Gooding jr. might rise out of the heap to be President one day. Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at December 27, 2011 12:06 PM (4HrTB) Before or after he finishes playing wide receiver for Arizona?

239

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 12:00 PM (8y9MW)

 

not sure what galveston's plan is but the city i work for is enrolled in TMRS and i dont pay social security. 7% goes to TMRS from my check and the city contributes a 2 for 1 match. galveston isnt in TMRS but there was a window of opportunity that closed in the 80's that allowed for plans that didnt pay into SS. some cities (dallas for example) set up their own plan instead of joining TMRS

240 Is Israel being consulted? What is this Munich?

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 27, 2011 11:41 AM (i6RpT)

We told you already Jooo, you'll vote Democrat and you will like it.

Now go stand in line for the showers.

241 Heritage Foundation and other conservative organizations endorsed the mandate at one point. Changing your view on a particular policy position can actually be a quality one looks for in mature adult leadership. Of course we get cynical when you have someone like Romney who seems to change his position whenever it's to his political advantage. On this I'm willing to let Newtster (and Romney) slide as long as his (their) position now is that the mandate is pig vomit all around when other options are considered.

242 240,

Haha.

243
is it possible at all for Perry to win the nomination?

Well, since this is now a football-esque political blog, let's look at it in terms of football playoffs.

Rick Perry has as much chance to win the nom as the Jets do to get into the playoffs. All the Jets need is: CIN loss + TEN loss + OAK loss; or CIN loss + TEN loss + DEN loss.

All Rick Perry needs: MITT to have a stroke + NEWT divorce, or MITT drops out + NEWT abduction by aliens.

244 never, ok, thank you.

245 101 #84 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at December 27, 2011 11:11 AM (BsXKJ)

And then promptly gave them free health care . . . . 'cause he's tough on illegal immigration, don'tcha know.

246 Posted by: DrewM. at December 27, 2011 12:01 PM (WnQJ3)

Well, given that no one will actually argue with us...  I think it's a fair idea that, as far as the rhetorical argument goes, we're winning.  Look at this thread: it took how many comments before you would give me some specific substance where you think Perry is lacking?  That's what we get in every thread: an assertion that he isn't good enough, or hasn't done enough, or whatever, and then (usually) silence or (less often) one or maybe two posts of substantial disagreement which dry up pretty quickly.

As for the rest?  I don't think Rick Perry will win.  But if he doesn't it won't be for lack of my support.  And if he does, you know I'll be crowing for weeks.  Well, a day or two, certainly.

We know he's not doing well (though he's doing better in Iowa than the National Media likes to admit), and so we're doing everything in our power to try to get the message out: Based on actual substance and accomplishments, Rick Perry is the most conservative candidate in the race by far.  His policy positions, as a whole, line up much more closely with the Republican Base than do any of the other candidates- especially when effectiveness and an actual record are factored in.

Rick Perry has far less to "explain away" than, say, Newt or Mittens.  He has a much more conservative record of accomplishment than Mittens, Bachmann, Santorum, and Paul- combined.

So, yes, I think as far as "arguing" goes, we have better arguments and tend to "win" (whatever that means on the internet) when there is actual, fact-based, debate.  And the best candidate is still probably going to lose.  But that won't be because I stop supporting him.

247 The jig is up ... whether we like it or not, it's going to be Romney from our side.

The GOP must want a hand in making HISTORY as much as the democrats. Can't make the first ever black POTUS a 1-termer...

248 Look,man! As late as Feb. / 2008, you could have found me waving a sign on street corners for fuckinkg Romney. (I was stupid, I admit it, I thougt that "Healthcare Reform" was gonna be HUGE (bigger than Karl Rove can know!) and I was correct! ) I also, believed that Mitt Romney was a wise man, who, once confronted with the bad results of Romneycare in MA would abjure not only the destructive ends but the means! Obviously, I was oh, so FUCKING wrong!!! (Still think Romney would have been better than dumbass, fucking, McCain in early 2009...)

249 Meanwhile the Perrykrishnas are acting like the Black Knight in the Holy Grail....our crashed and burned candidate? Tis but a flesh wound!

Posted by: DrewM. at December 27, 2011 12:01 PM (WnQJ3)

I haven't seen any Perry supporter behave that way. Are they hopeful that he can stage a comeback? Of course! But nobody around here is deluded enough to assume that it is probable.

As usual DrewM, you are exaggerating to make your point. 

Lots of smoke, but no fire.

250

Posted by: chas at December 27, 2011 12:08 PM (TKF1Y)

There are a LOT of States where Teachers never paid into Social Security...  which I could never figure out...

251 OUt, damned sock!

252 sooth, hmm, alright so there is a chance (channeling Jim Carey). certainly doesn't seem promising re; his tripping over own appendage,  and time.

253

My friends, Barack Obama will make a fine President during his second term. He is a good man and he's learned alot from the first 4 years.

254 @245...so you're saying Santorum has the same chance the Eagles do of making the playoffs?

255 Perry is a true conservative more than I can say for his cohorts, I will vote for him ONLY!

256 so depressing.

257 205 Thanks 'Nam Grunt, it's an honor. I'm waiting so see how the election goes before I slap a "secede" sticker on my truck. . I bought one a few weeks ago, at the Capitol gift shop, no less.

258

Posted by: DrewM. at December 27, 2011 11:57 AM (WnQJ3)

 

god forbid you maybe do a google search for galveston plan and find all the details you so desperately need!! you dont want to support perry and have no rational reason, but you cant admit it so you invent some excuse that perry hasnt touched in some ethereal way to convince you. i guess he isnt emanating the right penumbras or something. grow and pair and just say you wont support him no matter what, dont be such a pus.

259

Drew,

I would counter that Newt has plainly mastered the details of inside-DC wonkery-- and drawn almost all the wrong conclusions about those details.

Um what?  I have the same problem as Drew M., which is why I'm only a 10% Perry supporter right now.  Telling me that Newt sucks too doesn't really give me much confidence in Perry.

 

----

Funny how the conservative immigration shops that are much more informed on immigration than y'all and who aren't Perry fanbois don't think that Perry is that good on immigration.  Immigration is probably the one issue Romney is good on.  He did some actual real-life stuff to support conservative immigration policies in Mass. and of all the candidates besides Bachmann is the one who has articulated a vision most in tune with the conservative immigration movement.  He's probably lying, but most of the other candidates haven't even bothered figuring out what the conservative immigration movement's vision is.  Perry supporters should probably quite fighting about the one substantive area where their guy is weakish and Romney is strong and move on to the numerous other areas where Perry has Romney beat.

260
...so you're saying Santorum has the same chance the Eagles do of making the playoffs?

That is an accurate assessment.

261 I'm kind of wishing there'd been mass casualties from the 2008 circular firing squad.

If you have to use government force to override peoples rights maybe your trying to use government to solve a problem it should NOT be involved in.  Forcing people to buy health insurance is a clear case of this.  The plain fact that it keeps getting bigger and messier and no solution works says we're trying to solve the problem in the wrong domain.

also,
saving the Arabs from getting blown to radioactive dust by Israel
FIFPerry

262 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 12:10 PM (8y9MW)

I gave you specific example from the start. You simply wanted them in a format you were willing to accept.

Two thoughts....

1- As I've made clear several times, I don't care if you or other Perry supporters can explain it. I want Perry to demonstrate his ideas.

2- When I did give you an example in the form you were willing to accept of where Perry is simply a talking points machine you couldn't point to anything Perry actually said on the subject.

I'm not sure how you think demonstrating my point (Perry supporters are seemingly better informed than Perry) means you are winning anyone over but if it makes you feel better to think you are, enjoy it.

263 HOLD  FAST

264 For Drew and others, I think the good news (or somewhat good news) is that there is still time for Perry to make his case.  Maybe he will live up to the challenge and be worthy of the nomination.  Maybe he won't.  I just hope the nomination battle continues.  We are better served by having the candidates really fight for our votes.  If Perry can rise, win a few states, and build some serious momentum, then he may win.  And he'd be a good candidate to go against Obama, because he will have fought his way through the GOP primary.  I guess the same can be said of Mitt - but everyone will know the narrative will be different.  Newt is really being challenged now.  If he survives, he will be a better candidate against Obama.  Though for the life of me, I do not understand why people think BO will be such a great candidate.  Yes, he is the incumbent, yes he will have a lot of money, yes he will have the media.  Those are advantages, but they will not hide the fact that he has been an unmitigated disaster.  His eloquence is overrated, as shown by the fact that everytime he makes a speech, his ratings go down.  His debating skills are overrated.  And this notion that he won the payroll tax debate is just wrong - Obama is now on board that payroll taxes should be cut, he is for defunding social security and cutting taxes.  How is that a win for a democrat?

265 So, out of our two frontrunners, one designed the most significant piece of progressive legislation of the past few decades, and the other has supported it in writing.

Sweet.

266 and you're answer is basically, "yeah, I don't know what he thinks about it".

Well, yes.  I don't know that he's thought that deeply into that particular part of his policy.  I do admit that.

I'm not trying to tell you what he thinks there, because I don't know.  I was just trying to get something from you other than "He hasn't done enough," because that's what we normally get.

I then mention the way that Galveston works (and that that's what "private" suggests to me anyway) because we live in a sound-bite world and I don't think he's been asked that question, either.  He's got a lot to say, some is going to be left out.

That, BTW, was the point about him not knowing you and not sitting down with you specifically- like all candidates, he's going to lay out his policy in the broadest, most generic terms possible, and then answer specifics when he's questioned about them.

However: what has Newt said about SS at all?  Has he addressed portability?  The fact that it just isn't going to exist for my children, and almost certainly won't exist for me either?  What about Mitten's medi-scare tactics on the issue?  Tell me someone who has done better on the issue that Rick Perry, and how, so I can compare.

267 Posted by: chas at December 27, 2011 12:13 PM (TKF1Y)

If that's the best argument you have for Perry he's in even bigger trouble than I think. And I think he's toast.

268 hard to rap my head around R P even being in the contest.

269 Drew-
No snark, I'd just like to know who you support now.  You seemed to be in the Perry camp a short while ago, at least that's how I remember it, and now you apparently aren't.  As you know, I'm not a Perry fan, mostly for the reasons you have laid out here.  I'm curious what's changed your mind, if it has in fact changed.

270 Hopefully Romney and McConnell will be able to team up and cross the aisle with our democrat friends and get some things done.

271 slatz, sure looks as if, it is going to be rammed down our throats permanently.
what a shonda

272 - ,

273 If you say perry is toast then you sound like the pravda media of hussien odumbass you will have to get in line to wash his balls if he actually has some I say he's a muslim balless scoamf.

274 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 27, 2011 12:17 PM (8y9MW)

You've kind of missed the big point here...I'm not asking you to do my homework on Perry. I've done it.

By the same token, I'm not doing your homework on Newt. Notice I haven't told you how awesome he is and why you're wrong not to support him.

I'm not a Newt fanboi. I know his flaws and they are many. I'm voting for him because I think for all those flaws he sucks less than the rest but I'm not evangelizing for him. There's no way to do that without sounding like an idiot.

275 We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!

276 "I will admit to being a Perry fan but, Texas is cruising down the road at 80mph with a smooth running engine."

But how much of that is a direct effect of Perry as Governor.

Though a powerful political force (in most states usually a force of laissez faire), there are more forces at work keeping a state prosperous and functioning during hard times.

There's also a lot of things that came together in previous administrations and laws created by past and present representatives.

I'm not so sure Perry deserves as much accolades for Texas being in the black.

There have also been suggestions that Texas has enjoyed a unique position in regards to unemployment and expenditures that has allowed it to appear prescient in it's economic fortunes.

Whether he (or anyone for that matter) could turn the formula used in Texas to turn around the nation and all the other states is problematic.

277 278,

What are you from out of town?

278 You simply wanted them in a format you were willing to accept.

Yes: that format called "specifics."  How unreasonable.

When I did give you an example in the form you were willing to accept of where Perry is simply a talking points machine you couldn't point to anything Perry actually said on the subject.

You mentioned one specific part of a policy in a very broad policy.  And, yes, some of those are going to fall through the cracks in a campaign.

I can't help but think your problem with Perry (and his supporters) is that we're more-or-less honest about Perry's problems, and willing to put up with them to get the benefits he brings to the table.

I'm not going to try to convince you that he knows all the ins-and-outs of policies.  Mostly because he probably doesn't, but also because it doesn't matter.  He's not going to be writing the legislation in the first place.

So, if that matters to you, stick with Newt.  His policy positions will suck at least 6 times out of 10, but those other 4 will not only be good (and about 1 out of 10 will be mind-blowingly awesome), they'll be well thought out and detailed.

On the other hand, if you do want someone who is going to be on the right side of things 9 times out of 10, and you're willing to deal with the fact that he's going to lay out the principles and let his staff work on the specifics, I don't see anyone in the race except Perry who is going to do that.

279

265 HOLD FAST

Steady as we go, Perry diehards.

280 Posted by: pep at December 27, 2011 12:19 PM (6TB1Z)

If you're interested, here's where I went from "Maybe Perry is the guy" to, "Oh dear God, we're screwed".

I layout my concerns with him there and nothing I've seen since has answered them adequately.

281 280,

Whoooooohooooo you can walk point for me anytime well typed.

282 Perry supporters have to admit that we have three very flawed candidates that can potentially win the nomination. Not two plus Perry.

There are a number of arguments that can be made for Perry. The argument that can't be made, and the one that is killing his candidacy, is that Perry himself can make the case.

You can't just gloss over that. Once that image is created and fostered it is very hard to shake, even if it's not true. But right now it looks like it is true, so where does he go from here?

283 @282
Drew-
from that post, you said "if Perry doesnÂ’t step up soon, very soon. IÂ’m going to have to begin the process of accepting I will have to support him (Romney) over Perry"

Now you're supporting Newt?

284 Ok, I'm done with this thread. You win, anti-Perry folks. He's not perfect as a conservative, he said a mean thing to you, and he talks funny. Oh, and he doesn't say Newt-level things on the campaign trail. Romney it is then. That's what you get. You seem to be pining for a candidate who isn't there. You chose not-Perry for whatever reasons. You chose Romney. That's all there is to say about it.

285
The Republicans seem intent upon nominating a Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Miserable Failure of their own.

Awesome...

286 Posted by: pep at December 27, 2011 12:31 PM (6TB1Z)

I wrote that at the end of September. Newt wasn't even an option (and I had and still have, a lot of problems with him).

I really thought the choices were going to be Perry, Cain or Mitt at that point. Of those three, Mitt seemed the likely choice. And as you can see, it made me ill to even consider.

287 Obama is the best campaigner that we know of.
1st time yes, now his act has worn thin because that's all he has and the MFM is running out of bird-cage liner covering for him.

 And lots of people either like the job Obama is doing or think he's not doing too badly.
The bought, the stupid, etc.  He's a symptom not a cause.


We'll be lucky to beat Obama in 2012 with anybody as the GOP candidate.
I could beat him in any sane debate or discussion with just my minimal common sense and reading the MoronBlog.

288 If I'm an Obama campaign strategist, I'd love to run against Perry, because in my mind (still channeling that campaign strategist here) that means I get to run against George W Bush redux.

289 266 I do not understand why people think BO will be such a great candidate. Because he won in 2008 with no accomplishments and the burden of Rev Wright against someone that it was figured could appeal to a broad swath of voters (conservatives excluded). The impact of the financial meltdown and his "first black president easing the guilt of America's racist past" status made that moot of course and 2012 isn't 2008 in terms of where America sees herself.

290 you Perry supporters always gloss over the fact that Romney vetoed in state tuition for illegals whereas Perry championed the cause.

Does anyone really think Romney would have had the same position if he was governor of Texas?

291 "That sort of stuff usually happens if you use quotes in your sockpuppet name. It confuses the gerbils."

Thanks. Yes. I had come to the same conclusion.

In my case it was a ; that did it.


Hey how about a freeaking manual huh? How can I ignore what the manual says IF THERE'S NO MANUAL TO IGNORE?

There's just a certain order to things; build software/website; write FAQ/manual; users then IGNORE said FAQ/manual and annoy more "experienced" users with stupid querys.

That's how it's done dammit.

292 Why would anyone support this jackass for president . . . or for that matter, for village dog catcher?

293 245
soothsayer at December 27, 2011 12:09 PM

Sooooo, there's a chance then?

294 It reallt doesn't matter who gets elected America is going to continue its slide to shithole status. The looters are in control and will continue to loot.

295

Query:

How does a politician think he's going to solve a free rider problem by creating a system in which free riding will be encouraged for those without significant income?

I, for one, simply cannot square that ciricle. Such an argument is despicable because it is  both discongruous with the facts and because it presumes to know which set of free riding problems is preferable. Let the majority vote on things that affect their own wallets.

Also, how does racking up huge hospital bills and declaring bankruptcy amount to free riding? Unless my definitition of free is markedly different that Professor Gingrich's I do not count bankruptcy as merely a zero on life's ledger.

(I did not read any of teh comments above. Apologies if I'm repeating others' points.)

296
  I didn't choose Romney. It's become apparent he was chosen for me.

  My original choice was Palin, then when Perry made noises about entering I viewed that as a double win for conservatives. Either would be a victory. Didn't happen, so now it is Perry to the bitter end, and I will write him in if necessary.

  But I will vote down ticket.

  All done arguing the subject.

297 From Newt's newsletter:

"The Romney plan attempts to bring everyone into the system."

Everything within the state, nothing outside the state.  Pretty much the textbook definition of totalitarianism, and Newt & co. don't see anything wrong with this, at all.  That's just effin' great.

298

Why conservatives in this election cycle (briefly, apparently) embraced Gingrich is a bit of a puzzle. He and Romney are both believers in big government solutions. Gingrich is essentially Romney with an attitude, politically speaking. I suspect it was merely a case of "Anyone but Romney" taken too literally.

So, conservatives have flirted with Bachman, Trump, Perry and, most recently, Gingrich.

I believe their last gasp will be Santorum, with the eventual final stage of depression: acceptance (of Romney as the nominee).

299

This is not a defense of Gingrich on this point (or on any other), but a thought prompted by all the back-and-forth and horseracing in the GOP primary story so far.

Are we thinking carefully about what the president actually can do in office?

He cannot initiate legislation. Only Congress can do that.

He can appoint judges and SCOTUS justices.

He speaks for the U.S. in foreign affairs, and appoints all our ambassadors.

He appoints department heads, who generally carry out Congress' wishes.

 

Are we looking at POTUS candidates through this set of duties, or are we looking for a Paul Ryan clone?

300 I sent $100 to Perry the other day. I don't have a lot of other options. If you vote for Newt, after reading this, I don't feel like we share an ideology at all really: "The individual mandate requires those who earn enough to afford insurance to purchase coverage, and subsidies will be made available to those individuals who cannot afford insurance on their own. We agree strongly with this principle..." And no, the details part doesn't mitigate it, and no, I don't believe he doesn't have this tendency even today. Perry is the only guy repeatedly saying he wants government as inconsequential in our lives as possible. That perspective is plenty to keep meon his side. AND SYDNEY PERRY. http://www.rickperry.org/content/uploads/2011/12/splash_christmas_graphic.jpg Tell me I'm wrong.

301

But I agree with Joffen: why settle for either of them when there's Perry in the field?

 

 

To be blunt, it is because most of the electorate considers him to be a dolt.

302

I've seen enough of this all-over-the-map, A.D.D. stuff from Newt lately to have largely fallen off his bandwagon.  The idea that he's such a target-rich and fire-tested media target that somehow people won't care is whistling past the graveyard.  Conservatives might be able to overlook it mainly due to our Mitt-ogny but anyone even one inch to the left of us very likely hates him more than Mittens and will be agog at what's flown out of that prodigiously spewing, intellectually promiscuous pie-hole over the last 20 years.

Perry pissed me off with the "heartless" stuff, but what's really turned me off with him has been his Bushy communication style - if Obama hopes for one thing more than running against Newt, it's running against W's Texas-folsky-stammering twin.  He's spent eight years practicing that - so much that he might even be able to beat Perry with his teleprompter tied behind his back.

Still can't stand Romney.

Right now, since I'm recovering from holiday blissfulness, I'll go with Conrad Black from NRO who still seems to think another candidate could emerge late - with Newt having served only to expose how utterly shallow and "top-down" Romney's support is, as well as the overall non-viability of Perry's campaign.

Paul's a nutter.  I'm embarassed to have to even mention his candidacy.  The rest are simply non-starters.

303 Drew M. Before you made this tweet: DrewMTips DrewM This just in...some Perry fans are just as annoying and stupid as Palinistas. 1 hour ago you might have wanted to correct this tweet: DrewMTips DrewM Yes Virginia...are [sic] candidates are idiots. 24 Dec ****** Could be you are engaging in simple projection. Before you call people idiots and stupid.... (I usually don't care about simple grammar-but when you immediately call people idiots before knowing all the facts...)

304 I added the [sic]

305

The "outing" of Newt's weird pronouncements (like this post) that we see on this site as well as every other non-Newt-approved Right-blog, like largely Perry supporting RedState, is exactly what will happen every day that Ginrich runs, both in the primary and the general. 

Each day will have a dose of "Definer of Civilization, Master of All He Surveys, Parter of the Waters" as well as subpoenaing judges to testify before Congress, support of Obama's policy chestnuts, and outright weirdness.  I'm not even taking into account the "GOP nominates laughingstock looney" headlines that will dominate the MSM, if only because they'd say that if we'd nominated a Ryan or a Christie as well.

It will be a death of a thousand cuts and I'm increasingly less willing to live with the damage just to stick it to The Man at the RNC. 

306 If Hunstman were to recant his global warming statement, could we back Huntsman?

307 If you can't have universal health care without an individual mandate then ... you can't have it! Next Question.

308 There's a difference between "I hold this policy which you don't like" and "I hold this policy which you don't like and you suck for disagreeing." Perry could have gotten past that by now, if he was worth a crap as a public speaker, but he's just hapless. People remember a poor public speaking Texas governor less than fondly, shall we say.

309 Screw this, I'm just gonna go be a pirate- drink rum and go Arrrgh all day. Now accepting applications for wenches.

Posted by: Blueballs the Pirate at December 27, 2011 11:52 AM (yn6XZ)

Yup, I already did that. It's working out, but those wenches, they be hard to find, good ones, anyway.

310 The big difference is that MA isn't the federal government.  The MA constitution may permit the state to enforce the buying of health insurance, whereas the the US Constitution clearly does not.  While I agree with both Newt and Romney that 100% coverage is the goal, I disagree on the mandate part of it, but surely everyone on this blog, with the possible exception of the Paulbots, realizes the differences in the realm of state and federal responsibilities, and how those entititees can go about achieving their goals. 

311

A mandate that individuals purchase health insurance or face state action (Federal or otherwise) isn't limited government or Conservatism regardless of sophistries and legalities.  Then again, if "100% coverage is the goal," who cares about limited government ?  After all, the goal justifies the means.

The alleged "federalist" distinction between ObamaCare and RomneyCare is a sophistry. In terms of property rights vs. statism, does it really matter whether it's your state government or the federal that issues the mandate ?  Opposition to ObamaCare's mandate stems from people's desire to avoid a mandate, period, not its source.  And that's where both Romney and Newt have screwed the pooch on this issue.

Even government-mandated auto insurance (a concept I'm highly skeptical of as well) is only required for licensed drivers, not those who merely draw breath in a state.

 

 

312 But since "heartless" is enough to make half the party collectively say "Oh no he di'n't," I guess Perry is done for. Posted by Ace at 10:37 AM Nonsense. Perry comes off as the dumb younger brother of Bush. He seems like an idiot. We're not nominating another Texan who gives off the vibe of glib ignorance. That is why Perry is done for.

313

A mandate that individuals purchase health insurance or face state action (Federal or otherwise) isn't limited government or Conservatism.  The alleged "federalist" distinction between ObamaCare and RomneyCare is a sophistry. In terms of property rights vs. statism, does it really matter whether it's your state government or the federal that issues the mandate ?  Opposition to ObamaCare's mandate stems from people's desire to avoid a mandate, period, not its source.  And that's where both Romney and Newt have screwed the pooch on this issue.  Newt calling the Ryan Plan "right wing social engineering" when he's supported an individual healthcare mandate simply can't be excused away. He's trying to have it both ways - which is commonplace for him.

Newt and Romney are both perfectly willing to invoke the powers of Big Government to achieve what they see as socially-desirable ends.  Their dalliance with limited government in this election cycle is apparently born of sheer political expediency.  If I'm wrong, I await either of their explanations of any epiphanies they've had recently that converted them into true-believing Tea Partiers.

314 The alleged "federalist" distinction between ObamaCare and RomneyCare is a sophistry.

You're confusing two issues. Government funded health insurance is a bad idea for the reasons you list, but federalism is about constitutionality. It is unconstitutional for the federal government to do it; its not for states to. That doesn't make it a good idea, just constitutionally legal.

315 You made a few good points there. I did a search on the matter and found a good number of people will agree with your blog.

316
That is useful information and its quite easy to come a croper if you are not vigilant.

317 Romney is a RINO
Gingrich is a DIABLO, that's like a RINO but more afraid of his own shadow.

Perry is a pain in the ass some of the time. But, he's no rino.

Bachmann is a solid conservative except her attacks were not quite 'factual'

Santorum is the CONSERVATIVE in the race. btw, all you Gingrich supporters need to read your history lessons again. Those weren't newty boy's wins in the congress. Those were the work of the RICK.

Now, if we could just get Santorum to drop out and clear the way for GOVERNOR PALIN!!!!

318
Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

319 Yep! I was agreed, I'll keep in touch to your blog.

320 x